1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: I'm with Lucas and this is black tech, green money. 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: Chaucer Barnes the chief marketing officer of Translation plus United Masters, 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: the parent company of a war winging creative agency, translation 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: and artist services platform United Masters and creating a new 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: normal for the way brands and creators enlikenment and trade 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: cultural capital. Chaucer applies tools and lessons from every chapter 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: of his life as a media planner, brand strategists, creative director, 8 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: partnership architect, and independent musician. Chaucer has said, in the 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: early days of Translation, people weren't talking about culture in 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: the context of advertising. This interested me, so I asked 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: what has changed and what impact has embracing culture had 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: on the metrics business cares about sales, and what impact 13 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: has this focus had on culture itself. 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely true. 15 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 3: I mean I've been around a company for close to 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 3: twelve years now, and when I say that, when I say, 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 3: you know, culture wasn't mentioned in the in reference to advertising, 18 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 3: it's because when we were saying it early, almost called 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 3: it twenty twelve, it felt really exceptional, like. 20 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 2: It was a moment. It was. 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 3: It was an expression of differentiation at the time. The 22 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: idea that you know, making people aware of these certain 23 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 3: products existing at these certain price points that these retailers 24 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 3: had anything to do with the business of fandom or 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 3: of social identity. How it's changed and why it's changed, 26 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 3: I guess I should start with, is it's changed because 27 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: people hit the ceiling of growth and they felt it. 28 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 3: They knew it, right, So you could look at that 29 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: in the kind of individual cases of think about Budweiser, right, 30 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 3: Budweiser at the time that they got into business with translation, 31 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 3: they completely stalled out. Here's America's beer. Only one in three, 32 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 3: twenty one and twenty seven year olds that ever tasted 33 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 3: America's beer. And so you have these huge, kind of 34 00:01:55,320 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 3: ubiquitous brand expectations and this wilting undercurrent or sorry, this 35 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 3: wilting audience underneath that brand. 36 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: That just doesn't care. 37 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: And so the sales, the metrics that they really cared 38 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 3: about in that case, sales and their ability to move 39 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 3: through various on premise off premise retailers, that was the 40 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 3: forcing function that made them adopt new proxies for that success. 41 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 3: So it's not that the metrics change. In other words, 42 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,839 Speaker 3: people to make beer still want to sell beer. People 43 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 3: to make cars, still want to sell cars, et cetera. 44 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 3: It's that they see the proxy for that performance being 45 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: better measured in adoption rate engagement rate. I mean, think 46 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 3: about the idea of engagement rate as you know, that 47 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 3: came to popularity in the late or in the early teens, 48 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 3: let's call it two thousand and eight to twenty fourteen. 49 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 3: Somewhere the entire advertising industry had come to maturity, full maturity, 50 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 3: without any kind of notion of what consumers on the 51 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 3: other end of that message do. An engagement rate was 52 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 3: the first thing anybody started to measure. It was like, 53 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 3: all right, so I did this, and then they did that, 54 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 3: and they did That became so important because sheer delivery. Right, 55 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 3: this is my impression load, this is my impression count. Okay, 56 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: but how many people click? Okay, but how many people 57 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 3: took a step? 58 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: Okay? 59 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 3: But how many people shared? That grammar of consumer engagement 60 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 3: in the work that you put forward was all part 61 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 3: of people having to come around to the fact that 62 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 3: you can't win without creating a rational preference for your product, service, 63 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 3: or your brand values. And you shouldn't be trying to 64 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 3: do that in a direct response way. You should be 65 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 3: trying to do that in a communal way. And then 66 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: there was just evidence, it was just ample evidence everywhere 67 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: that the things that were dominating pop culture were no 68 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: longer the fruit of a couple of gatekeepers. It was 69 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 3: really and empowered populace. And so I think the confluence 70 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 3: of all of those things have been a force and 71 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 3: function for every single marketer to not get fired by 72 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 3: appreciating that their job is not just to make everybody aware, 73 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 3: their job is to drive affinity. 74 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: And then ultimately, option. 75 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: You said a word, they're communal, and I think of 76 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: a community in this way. So we've had this conversation 77 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: a few times on this podcast where we've discussed the 78 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: idea of if you're just directly trying to sell without 79 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: having built a brand or community first, you might be successful, 80 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: but it's not a sustainable way to build something. And 81 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: so what we've talked about is, if you can build 82 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: your brand and build a community of people who will 83 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: follow you anywhere, you can sell anything. Then what do 84 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: you say to that concept? 85 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: Well, I do think that there are limitations on selling 86 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 3: anything that are frankly shaped by your brand, Like the 87 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 3: contours of your brand dictate what you can and cannot sell. 88 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 3: I'm about to take my wife down to Nola to 89 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 3: see what was supposed to be the last stop on 90 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 3: the Renaissance tour, and I can't imagine a bigger fan 91 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 3: of Beyonce to my wife. I know that they exist, right, 92 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 3: but I can't imagine a bigger fan. Beyonce can't sell everything. 93 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 3: She can't sell anything, and we've seen ample evidence of that. 94 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: Right. 95 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 3: Beyonce can move the stock ticket for LVMH, She's done it. 96 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 3: But Beyonce can't get rid of that Ivy Park merchandise. 97 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 3: Beyonce can't sell a twenty five dollars bikini for H 98 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 3: and M, no matter how great she looks in it. 99 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 3: I remember seeing when H and M and Beyonce got 100 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 3: into business. We were still in midtown, and they had 101 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 3: these beautiful, you know, out of home units, and it's 102 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 3: Beyonce laid out in a swimsuit, Like, who's. 103 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: Mad at that? 104 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 3: But the truth of the matter is that the brand 105 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 3: that she has built and what it is that people 106 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: are responding to, she is fulfilling neat She is Princess 107 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 3: Diana for this generation, and nobody wants Princess Diana to 108 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: wear a twenty five dollar bikini. Nobody's influenced when Princess Diana, 109 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 3: where's a twenty five dollar bikini? Doesn't matter how good 110 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 3: she looks, that's not the point. The point is Tiffany 111 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 3: and Beyonce absolutely h and m and Beyonce absolutely not. 112 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 3: And I think it's I think it is. There is 113 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 3: a there's a degree of elasticity that any brand, whether 114 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: it's you as a person or you as a corporate 115 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 3: giant with just it's just a logo and a wordmark. 116 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 3: There's a certain degree of elasticity that you can accommodate. 117 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 3: And then where you see people go wrong is when 118 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,799 Speaker 3: they try to stretch beyond that and they either alienate 119 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 3: the people that originally embrace the brand. I think we've 120 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 3: seen that. I'm sure your views will remember a certain 121 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: beauty brand that came to market a lot different than 122 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: the way that they grew up right. 123 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 2: And then I also. 124 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 3: Think that there is there is taste, right so or 125 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 3: there beyond taste, there is expertise, and someone's perceived expertise 126 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 3: in a given space really licenses them to be a 127 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 3: credence bearer for other things that they may be selling 128 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 3: or maybe just referring you to the but the corpus 129 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 3: of what you're saying I have one hundred percent agree with, 130 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: which is take your audience everywhere you can by yourself. 131 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 3: Never let a platform, never let a third party be 132 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: an intermediary in between you and your audience, and you 133 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 3: will have not just fans, you will have customers, and 134 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: you'll figure out from those customers what you are licensed 135 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 3: to broken to them. 136 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: I like that. I didn't prepare this question, but you 137 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: got me thinking about you know, we do see Beyonce 138 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: ask like a princess Diana, But then I think about 139 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: you got me thinking about Rihanna. Like, Rihanna can probably 140 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: sell anything. If she came out with notebooks for school, 141 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: she could probably sell a million to those a day, 142 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: and you know, and she's shown it in various vertical verticals. 143 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: And she could also probably also move this stoctic er 144 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: on Lvmas. So what is what's the difference? 145 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Rihanna actually does have more elasticity to 146 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 3: her brand. I think that is tied to the fact 147 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 3: that Rihanna is not as exceptional talent as Beyonce. 148 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: Hot take. One of the things that we admire about 149 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: Rihanna is that. 150 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 3: As gorgeous as she is, as tasteful as she is, 151 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 3: as poised as she is, as this that the other 152 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 3: that raw talent does not feel supernatural, and so there's 153 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 3: an accessibility to her that I don't think beyond. 154 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 2: You know, it's like the Serenas of the. 155 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 3: World, the Beyonces, and I think this probably we might 156 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: not have long enough to get in to. But there's 157 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 3: probably something with a gender line here as well. 158 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: But there are. 159 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 3: Certain people who who's undeniable talent or untraceable set of 160 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 3: skills puts them so far out of reach that they 161 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 3: get to be respected, admired and aspired to, but they 162 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 3: do not feel approachable, followable, and ultimately they don't have 163 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 3: brands to say I can do that. They have brands 164 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 3: to say wouldn't that be dope? 165 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? 166 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 3: So I feel like overall, Rihanna is a little bit 167 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 3: closer to the ground. And I also think, frankly, she 168 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 3: has shown a level of investment in all of these 169 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 3: other businesses and she's been running that is unlike Beyonce. 170 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 3: Beyonce will I'm not gonna say what she will always 171 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 3: be that would be unfair, But Beyonce is still an 172 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 3: entertain right and very much like jay Rihanna has taken 173 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 3: on the mantle of being a mogul, and. 174 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: So there's just naturally more license in that identity. 175 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: She might have got famous for being a kind of 176 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 3: okay singer and a great entertainer, but today she's known 177 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 3: as a. 178 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: Mobile Yeah, it was probably Snapchat as a distribution channel 179 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: who changed advertising for everybody when they got rid of 180 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 1: the edited you know, makeup produced the thing are are 181 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: we have we grown tired of traditional advertising produced content 182 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: in that way? Or is it just no creativity? 183 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: You know? I don't. 184 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 3: I don't have a tendency to I don't think that 185 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 3: most people. And this is tough when you're twenty years 186 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 3: steeped in this industry, you know, you live your whole life, 187 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: and like your friends that dropped by then, there were 188 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 3: a kind of all. 189 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 2: The same in that respect. 190 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 3: But my hunch is that most people don't make those 191 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: distinctions about advertising versus the content, versus influencer stuff versus. 192 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: What their neighbor is making. Good is good is good. 193 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 3: And to the extent that you can add polished to good, 194 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 3: like the high production values. 195 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 2: To good, I think it just makes it better. 196 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 3: It might make it more visible, It might make it 197 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 3: more sticky, it might allow for more layers of your storytelling, 198 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 3: brand development to come forward. But at the core of this, 199 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 3: there's plenty of advertising that is indistinguishable from content, and 200 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 3: it's just pure value, right It's editorial value, it's intellectual value. 201 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 2: And there's plenty of content that. 202 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 3: Is not really anything more than advertising. Right Tho, the 203 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 3: dividing lines between them is really more an industry thing 204 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 3: than it is a consumer thing. In other words, who 205 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 3: paid for it, how is it distributed, is it paid 206 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 3: to be distributed, and if so, who's behind that. Those 207 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 3: are all questions that have very real that create these 208 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 3: very real synapses, sorry, distinctions between these categories like this 209 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 3: is an ad and this is content, and this is 210 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 3: something else, this is an obituary, and blah blah blah. 211 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 3: But for most people, you know, think about the way 212 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 3: that you consume media, right, you're consuming media on a 213 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 3: couple of whether you're scrolling through it or you're kind 214 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 3: of browsing through it, like on YouTube, You're bumping into 215 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 3: content that has all of these different types of motivations 216 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 3: at all points in your day. And I think this 217 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 3: stuff is sticky, It kind of doesn't matter if Coca 218 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 3: Cola is behind it or your homeboy is behind it. 219 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 3: The stuff is sticky is sticky. I think that equalization 220 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 3: is part of, you know, our central thesis. 221 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 2: This is why. 222 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 3: Your attention minutes you will your attention minutes increasingly budgeted 223 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 3: by you. You don't have to interact with content you 224 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 3: don't want to increasingly so and so so. Content that 225 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 3: wants to sell you something has to get more persuasive 226 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 3: and more worthy of your attention. I think that's probably 227 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 3: a good thing, and that's certainly the end of the 228 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 3: pool that we like to swim. Man Like, I'm not 229 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 3: here to tell you about the pepperone Chimi muffin is 230 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 3: coming from Papa John like. 231 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: That ain't even my business. 232 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 3: I'm here to put something in front of you that 233 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 3: makes you feel seen or heard in the way that 234 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 3: you didn't feel before. I want to put something in 235 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 3: front of you, or put you in an environment, or 236 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 3: give you an experience. It gives you something noteworthy to 237 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 3: talk about at various functions you go to that's worthy 238 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 3: of you taking a picture or taking a video within 239 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 3: and bragging that I was there. That's the business that 240 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 3: all of us who are trying to push culture forward 241 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 3: for whatever economic reward. 242 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 2: That's what that's what we're here to do. And so yeah, 243 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: I don't I don't think. 244 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 3: I don't think a really really well done cheesy poll, 245 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 3: her pizza hut or her little diseases is changing anybody's 246 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: mind about what pizza they getive buy. 247 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. When I started doing public speaking, I learned this, 248 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: you know, hack or tip or whatever you want to say. 249 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: It's you talk to one person at a time, no 250 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: matter how many people are in the room. You make 251 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: connections with one person at a time, and therefore everybody 252 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: else in the room connects. Why is that do you 253 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: think from a marketing and advertising perspective? And does it translate? 254 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely it does in my practice. 255 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 3: So one of the things that I use to evaluate work, 256 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 3: and I've been very public about this is a recipeder 257 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 3: was given to me by y'all sinback, not given to 258 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 3: me like hand to hand, given to me because I 259 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 3: was always a fan most and he goes it's commonplace 260 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 3: in different, intimate and distant, fresher than the infant, fresh 261 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: than the infant, is what everybody thinks of its creativity. 262 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 3: It's like the joy de viv makes something memorable in 263 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 3: place in different we can save for a different podcast. 264 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 3: But what you're really talking about is intimate and distant, right, 265 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 3: the intimacy. The reason that these two things need to 266 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 3: be in balance with one another is because things ultimately 267 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 3: do have to scale, right, So you do you are 268 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 3: ultimately on the hook to address that total audience. But 269 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 3: the focus on the one person and making them feel 270 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: like there's a connection is in our practice the one 271 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 3: of the things that differentiates, i should say our practice 272 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 3: from a lot of others. So a lot of advertising 273 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 3: is about, hey, let's find the most neutral thing, the 274 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 3: biggest tent that the most people can get under. So 275 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 3: you start looking for you create all of these segments 276 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 3: that may or may not have, you know, real value 277 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: to people in terms of the way that they live 278 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 3: their life. 279 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: Right, So like I got the soccer moms, and I got. 280 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 3: The football dads, and I got the like black kids, 281 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 3: and I got the Latin people in wheelchairs, do this, 282 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 3: that and the other. And then you try to come 283 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 3: up with a mess is it cuts across all of 284 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 3: those categories, and they're like, this is meaningful to everybody, right, 285 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 3: and this is how you get that big top creative 286 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 3: and everything. This is like the majority of what you 287 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 3: see on the Super Bowls, like everybody gets everybody knows 288 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 3: the words too sweet Caroline. First of all, nah, be, 289 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 3: we don't know the words this sweet Caroline. But you know, 290 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 3: let's go that hege hegemonic privilege, privilege right. The desire 291 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 3: to create these things that are designed to fit some 292 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 3: fanciful average of people is fundamentally flawed in our opinion. 293 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 3: And so when we study the greats and the people 294 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 3: to really lead culture, it's never I shouldn't say, it's 295 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 3: never in sync. Was a great example of this. Britney 296 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: Spears is a great example of this. You got a 297 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 3: team of people that can observe patterns, they seem to 298 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 3: be working all these other channels, put them together into 299 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 3: one package and it looks like this and you present it. 300 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 3: But look around you now, look at the look at 301 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 3: the titans of pop culture. Now, did they grow out 302 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 3: of very very specific niches, yes? Did they come stop 303 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 3: with something that was appropriate for all or did they 304 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 3: recruit a small hive, have that hive grow and influence 305 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 3: and have that high ultimately advocate on their behalf that 306 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 3: this is something you need to be turned on to 307 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 3: I don't care whether you're talking about Drake bad Bunny. 308 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 2: This that the other. 309 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 3: The modern marketers desire to create something that is pre 310 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 3: rinsed for the broad majority of people is a fundamental flaw. 311 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,479 Speaker 3: There's nowhere you can look in pop culture, including especially 312 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 3: in America, are politics. You can look across Europe see 313 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 3: the same thing in politics. It's getting more niche, it's 314 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 3: getting more specific. And so to the degree that you 315 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 3: can build something that is in service of a small 316 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 3: but responsive group, you canultimately scale that the same way 317 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 3: that you can make eye contact with somebody in a 318 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 3: room and you can scale the import of what you're 319 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 3: saying to everybody in that room. And there's no greater 320 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 3: example of that than what the agency has been able 321 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 3: to do with Beats I mean, like resuscitating Beats. A 322 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 3: lot of people don't know that Beats by Dre was 323 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 3: bound for the scrap heap. I mean, it wasn't doing 324 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 3: well as a business. And so when you have this 325 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 3: moment where we get to defribrillate the brand and speak 326 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 3: on behalf of black youth and do this piece of 327 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 3: work called You Love Me, that really resets and ask 328 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 3: the question at all that everybody black, certainly, and then 329 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 3: everybody that really was paying attention was had on the 330 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 3: tip of their tongues like you love black culture, why 331 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 3: don't you love black people? Where you can turn the 332 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 3: brand in that kind of megaphone for the youth segment 333 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 3: of twelve percent of the American population, there are plenty 334 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 3: of people in advertising that would tell you, oh, we're 335 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 3: being too tight, like this isn't for can't we get 336 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 3: it a little room years so it can include everybody, 337 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 3: And you start whittling it down, and you affect the 338 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 3: purity of that message, and you can't create the level 339 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 3: of advocacy that three years later you look and Beats 340 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 3: is now in the Verizon Holiday bundle, and Paul Giamati 341 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 3: and women from SNL are out there selling Beats as 342 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 3: a carrot to get you to buy a two year 343 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 3: Verizon plan in flyover States. 344 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: You will ultimately be able to achieve. 345 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 3: Marketplace dominance through an ethnic insight, a cultural insight, or even. 346 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 2: In some cases, geographic insite. 347 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 3: It is about, it is not about. 348 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: Afro Tech is a global gaping where inclusive tech companies 349 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: meet innovators. It's the only tech event you need all year. 350 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: Get ready for afro Tech twenty twenty three in Austin, Texas, 351 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: November first through the fifth. We built a whole temper 352 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: you can use to help you get your employer to 353 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: sponsor your trip and enjoy experiences. Build for every stage 354 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: your career, whether you're a college student looking for your 355 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: next internship, or if you work in avention capital looking 356 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: for your next business to invest in, and if you're 357 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: looking for a co founder or people that'sjoin your team, 358 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: there's no better place to be. The massive corporate layoffs 359 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three have affected 360 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: our community in a big way. An afrotech wants to 361 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: help you get back on your feet with skill development, 362 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: making it easier to switch industries. If that's your route. 363 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: In an afrotech, you'll make connections to help you get 364 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: your next opportunity. Visit afrotech dot com slash conference to 365 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: learn more. Where would you say the concept of influencer 366 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: is going. 367 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 2: Down the rabbit hole? Yeah? 368 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 3: So, first and foremost, I think there was a time 369 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 3: where it was obviously influencers were an alternative media channel. 370 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 3: Increasingly and certainly collectively, they are becoming the pre eminent 371 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 3: media channel if you compare it to what can raise 372 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 3: audiences hold their attention and oh, by the way, because 373 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 3: there's all these intermediaries also you know, cut the feed 374 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 3: or create the space for Coke home Depot or whoever 375 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 3: else wants to talk talk in between them. And as 376 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 3: as a result of that, it became a career for 377 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 3: a lot of people and suddenly became a career aspiration 378 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 3: for a lot of people. I think increasingly, being an 379 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 3: influencer is going to be an ingredient and a lot 380 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 3: of people's kind of economic recipe. Right, So you might 381 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 3: it'll be one thread that you're probably braiding together with 382 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 3: other ways that you earn for a lot of people, 383 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 3: and that could be because of some standing expertise they have, right, 384 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 3: Like maybe you're teaching piano. Maybe you're teaching piano not 385 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 3: just you know, putting the chords on YouTube, but maybe 386 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 3: you have like clients that are in some private room 387 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 3: with you and you're listening to who knows, but. 388 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 2: Expertise like that just sheer popularity. 389 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 3: But I do think that like we just said about 390 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 3: brands rit large, whether as big as Rihanna Beyonce, increasingly, 391 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 3: what will happen with influences is the things that influences 392 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 3: do to proverbially clout chase in other words, the things 393 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 3: that they trace that they already see or working, and 394 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 3: they replicate what is already working, and they just put 395 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 3: that little spin on it. So it's theirs that's gonna 396 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 3: the bottom is going to fall out of that. AI 397 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 3: is going to eat the bottom out of that period. 398 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 3: AI could eat the bottom out of the entire porn industry. 399 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 2: Oh, we know. 400 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 3: The original digital strategist and influences by the way, I 401 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 3: think we're at a tipping point. I think it's right 402 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 3: for young people to be thinking about the moves that 403 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 3: they make as being part of a permanent record. I 404 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,479 Speaker 3: think it is important for people to start to think 405 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 3: about the audiences that they're able to create on wherever 406 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 3: they publish or wherever they present their brand as. 407 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 2: Needing some other kind of collecting trade other than. 408 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 3: Ones that are controlled by Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg 409 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 3: or yeah, I mean, you name it, you name it. 410 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 3: Daniel Eck is increasingly important, and I think the jury 411 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 3: is still out, So I'll take a rold listen to 412 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 3: United Masters. Right now, it is impossible to know what 413 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 3: kind of formats are going to present themselves in music, 414 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 3: and they come in five to seven years, it's just impossible. 415 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 3: But when we say that, we believe that independence should 416 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 3: be the default setting for the music industry all around 417 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,479 Speaker 3: the world, it should matter less. Right, So you think 418 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 3: about the last couple of format changes. Just think about 419 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 3: the fact that when the ring tone, you seem old 420 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 3: enough will to remember the ring tone. Yeah, when ring 421 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 3: tones came to be, that was an entirely new revenue 422 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 3: stream that should have been enjoyed by this industry. As 423 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 3: you can well imagine, it really just went to the 424 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 3: rights holders in that case. And at that time the 425 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 3: rights holders were almost never, almost never the people that 426 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 3: actually created the thing that you love. Then, when you 427 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 3: get to streaming, right, streaming is a net new format change. 428 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 3: The negotiation and you've seen I'm sure you've seen this, right, 429 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 3: the negotiation of what a stream is worth was handled 430 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 3: by effectively three companies. And now when you look forward, 431 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 3: so now imagine a world where both Taylor Swift, Bad 432 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 3: Bunny Toby Wigway, like all these millions of people on 433 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 3: United Masters and tens of millions who are using platforms 434 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 3: like United masses to get their work to the world. 435 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 3: Imagine a world where they all own their work or 436 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 3: at least disportion their work. Now, you can't have a 437 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 3: ringtone era that purposefully excludes them in a future state. 438 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 3: So I can't tell you what the ringtone is about 439 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 3: to be. I can tell you it's coming, and I 440 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 3: can tell you that the creative class is better armed 441 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 3: by owning their data, their relationships with their audiences, owning 442 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 3: their IP and frankly, really figuring out how they can 443 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 3: do something other than trace what has already worked, and 444 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 3: really lean into the creative in creative class then, ever before, 445 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: I think the best prepared are going to satisfy those 446 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 3: three checkboxes. 447 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 2: And. 448 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 3: The rest of it is the rest of it. I'll 449 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 3: watch it play out. I don't know how influencers are 450 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 3: going to go, but I know just raw titillation is 451 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 3: just as algorithmic a task as poking holes and legal 452 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 3: document And if AI can eat the entire legal profession 453 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 3: or eighty percent of it, can eat this too. 454 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's go a level deeper. There is you know, 455 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: I think about ten years ago, fifteen years ago, you 456 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: asked a kid what they want to do, They would 457 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: have said, you know, I want to be in the 458 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: NBA or the NFL. Today they want to be I 459 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: Show Speed or Logan Paul or Jake Paul right and 460 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: you know, so people we often create content with the 461 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: goal in mind to be found, to be discovered. 462 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 2: You know. 463 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: It's kind of like chasing the A and R back 464 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: in the day. You want to be found by somebody 465 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: at a record label who could give you, you know, 466 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: a shot. So posting to social inconsistency on social and 467 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: delivering quality content is one leg of the stool. How 468 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: can we be more strategic in creating opportunities? Though a 469 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: while we're creating content. 470 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 3: More strategic than what than we are, because I would 471 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 3: say kind of a bull market, right, kind of everybody 472 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 3: got everybody got a podcast. Everybody can be Logan Paul 473 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 3: right now. That I shouldn't say everyone, I should say 474 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 3: anyone can be right. So when you say more strategic. 475 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: And creating things that actually get the attention to the 476 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: guy goes, Okay, Geico now wants to be a part 477 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: of this movement that I'm doing or you know, you 478 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: mentioned home depot. But so it's one thing to create 479 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: content and have a podcast house enough mean to actually 480 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: make money from that podcast. 481 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 482 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know, I want to underline one one 483 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 3: of the or one of the I suppose dependencies underneath 484 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 3: what you're saying. You know, Soldier Boy doesn't get enough credit. 485 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: He does over here, he does over here. 486 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 3: Oh no, But but Soldier Boy was really the first 487 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 3: time you had something that was really popular also directly 488 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 3: pay I mean, like the notion that's spread on YouTube 489 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 3: and that the AdSense account was on and that the 490 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 3: mere consumption of this thing in this other media channel. 491 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 3: You got to remember, like he's a guy that probably 492 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 3: made that under the assumption that one day, hopefully somebody 493 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 3: liking MTV. 494 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 2: Would take it. 495 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 3: Right, Like MTV, I ain't pay you for every time 496 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: they spun getting jiggy with it, right, they like, yo, 497 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 3: you're welcome. And so that I did it, your promotional 498 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 3: asset could actually be your revenue inlet That was kind 499 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 3: of that new and add sense and all these platforms 500 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 3: that with one hand I'm kind of wagging my finger at, 501 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 3: like don't let them on your audience. They also enabled 502 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 3: so many people to never have to figure out, never 503 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 3: have to learn anybody at Geico's name, right, because you 504 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,479 Speaker 3: can flip a switch and all of a sudden, your 505 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 3: content is monetized. You might not have ultimate control over it, 506 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 3: and you're certainly not getting the lion's share of the revenue, 507 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 3: but the point is you can go off and you 508 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 3: can go back and invest in your craft and your 509 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 3: craft knowing that some money is coming in and you 510 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 3: ain't have to do nothing to throw a switch. So 511 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 3: layer one of that was what enabled a lot of 512 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 3: the media escape they were seeing today. And it's really 513 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 3: really important that everybody not think that they need to 514 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 3: go stand next to the CMO of this or that 515 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 3: or the other in order to have fruitful careers. Like 516 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 3: that's still a very viable path to be able to 517 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,239 Speaker 3: monetize through these third parties. You're not going to get 518 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 3: the lion's share, but that's a real thing as you 519 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 3: move up and you want to catch somebody's eye. Look, 520 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 3: one of them is the obvious one. Right, have a hit, obviously, 521 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 3: very very easy to say, but successful is success. Right, 522 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 3: success is a crowded room, and you got to remember 523 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 3: that in most cases, you got to think about if 524 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 3: brand marketers are the people that you really want to 525 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 3: chase down. It's a very conservative environment. Right, this is 526 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 3: why sports is so replete money, Like people throw money 527 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: in sports all the time because it's so many different 528 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 3: places is to throw money in, right, do a league deal, 529 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 3: you do a team deal, you buy an agency to 530 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 3: make you some stuff. You do an athlete deal and 531 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 3: then the athlete shows up at the thing. You do 532 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 3: a naming rights deal at an arena. You can There's 533 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 3: so many different ways to park money, and most of 534 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 3: those are tied to all of these other people's financial reward. 535 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 3: And you know that they're not going to lose. Cia 536 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 3: is not going to lose. Lose an artist might an 537 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 3: artists wrote them, shake them dice, throw it up against 538 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 3: the wall all the time, and they've seen that over 539 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 3: and over and over. 540 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 2: Right, So there's just a. 541 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 3: Natural it doesn't feel it's safe to invest in music. 542 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 3: And frankly, increasingly other creators and other formats, twitch streamers 543 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 3: like how many people got to how many kids from 544 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 3: Connecticut got to say the N word? 545 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: Before people start to like chill on that right? 546 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 3: Or what is kaisat in Union Square the other day? 547 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 2: A second ago he was It's like, oh yeah, we 548 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: want to work with him. He's edgy. And now it's like, oh, 549 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 2: it creates riot. 550 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so there's a great degree of grooming that 551 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 3: goes into even knowing how to deal with a brand 552 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 3: like that of that statue, And most of them are 553 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 3: not going to rock with you until you achieve a 554 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 3: certain level of prominence. 555 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 2: Now are they exceptions to that. 556 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 3: Rule, Sure, but the rule is shorter to say than 557 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 3: the exceptions. And sorry, I want to I'm gonna give 558 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 3: a real answer. This The last thing I will mention. 559 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 3: If indeed the gatekeepers that you want to get to 560 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 3: are people that you want to patronize, you like brands, 561 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 3: the only advice I can give you is just remember 562 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 3: that they're real people. Like, if you're really the creative entrepreneur, 563 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 3: it really feels like there's something that Tender or Geico 564 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 3: or twenty three and meters should be. 565 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 2: That's a story you should tell, and you really want 566 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 2: to get to them. 567 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 3: And you tried the LinkedIn thing, and you tried to 568 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 3: you put the ePK together and you wrote the thing 569 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 3: and blah blah. 570 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: Blah bla blah. 571 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 3: You look those people up, look those people up on 572 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,959 Speaker 3: those other platforms. Those are real people behind all behind 573 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 3: all of those corporate all that corporate signage. Those are 574 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 3: real people that have real preferences, and if you want 575 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 3: to find them, they are not hard to find because 576 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 3: guess what marketers are self promotion and so you're can 577 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 3: just spend time figuring out what it is that they 578 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 3: like and what they think about Beyonce and Rihanna and 579 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 3: so on and so forth, and you know you're gonna 580 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 3: customize off of that. 581 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 2: It's not. 582 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 3: There is no magic app and there is no shortcut. 583 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 3: And now in a hyperconnected world, almost everybody is accessible. 584 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 3: You know, figure out who that trust circle is, penetrate 585 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 3: that trust circle, love that name and Jay did it 586 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 3: in the nineties, man, nobody was playing them on radio. 587 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 2: They start sending champagne bottles. There you go, there you go. 588 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: I want you to talk about the five c's because 589 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: you talked about you know, you got to have a hit. 590 00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: That's the easiest way, the first way to get in. 591 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: And you think, so content, cretence, customization, co incentives. I 592 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: do my research, it's for and so how so you talked. 593 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 2: About this. 594 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: Miss I missed missed the fifth one. Then content content 595 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: is your idea that you want to spread, right, creating 596 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: credence right, right, you got carriers. Carriers, that's what I missed, 597 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: customization co incentives. Yeah, yeah, So how do you know 598 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: when something's going to be ahead? 599 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 2: Man? Come on, bro. 600 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 3: Yo, If I knew that I would, we wouldn't be 601 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 3: having this conversation. You don't, You don't, right, But what 602 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 3: you can what you can recognize are the early symptoms, 603 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 3: and you can nurture those symptoms, right. And what you 604 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 3: can do is prepare yourself so that when you get 605 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 3: a little bit of lilyft off, you can become a 606 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 3: lot of lyft off because you're. 607 00:33:58,400 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 2: Not trying to figure this out for the first time. 608 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 3: But look, there will always be The reason that casinos 609 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 3: work at all is because the slot machine makes the 610 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,280 Speaker 3: same amount of noise, whether you hit for five million dollars, 611 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 3: the same. 612 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 2: Exact noise, right. 613 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 3: And you know, I don't think knowing what is a 614 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 3: hit has everything to do with how you're defining a hit, 615 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 3: of course, right, So like knowing you got a hit. 616 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 2: There's a great piece of footage. I'll send it to you. 617 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 3: You might have even seen this, like little NASAs the 618 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 3: day he releases Old Town Road and he goes gets 619 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:38,280 Speaker 3: his pizza. 620 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 2: He got these crummy Linds behind him. 621 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 3: You could tell like everybody's had that apartment and he's 622 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 3: in right there, the pizza and what not. And he 623 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 3: comes back, he's like, Yo, so I'm gonna check in 624 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 3: with you in a year. Boom, and he comes back 625 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 3: and yeah, he's got the white mink on right. First 626 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,919 Speaker 3: of all, that could have been engineered. I will say 627 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 3: it required. That level of ambition is required for anybody 628 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 3: who can program. 629 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 2: Like you gotta believe that. 630 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 3: We watch that same recipe with Kanye West most, I 631 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 3: mean probably most notably like you gotta believe that, and 632 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 3: hopefully you know, we as a class people who are 633 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 3: who are gonna benefit in so many ways from from 634 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 3: a viable creative class. Hopefully we don't see that and 635 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 3: try to dim everybody's life. But the point is that 636 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 3: some people just really feel that way. I'm gonna be 637 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 3: the next you name it for everybody else like myself, 638 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,839 Speaker 3: you can't know if you got to hit per se. 639 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 3: I just heard a great story about a record that 640 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 3: I'm in love with right now. 641 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 2: It's by a band called Dirry. They're not even on the. 642 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 3: Platform, this band called Dirry. This guy's been working, he's 643 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 3: been a journeyman, musician for twenty years is a garage 644 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 3: It makes like a garage rock product kind of, and 645 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 3: he's been doing it forever, right, and he's never really 646 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:00,959 Speaker 3: the needles. 647 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 2: Never really move for him. 648 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 3: And he releases, uh, this snippet and it starts to 649 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 3: take off on TikTok, and the snippet is wild Side. 650 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 3: The snippet goes the bridge to the snippet is I'm 651 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 3: just as broke as the day I was born, but 652 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 3: I still make it works, just like everybody else does. 653 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 3: It's all just a cruel joke, and everybody knows there's 654 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 3: no way. I mean, it's that dark. It starts getting 655 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 3: adopted on TikTok because people people, people. 656 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 2: Can relate to that. 657 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 3: People go through dark things themselves, so it could be 658 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 3: just as trivial as like I put the I put 659 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 3: my drink too close to the ledge and it fell off, 660 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 3: and people are using that that sound to be like 661 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 3: to signal regret. But it lifts off so much that 662 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 3: this guy decides he's gonna release it as a full 663 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,879 Speaker 3: song because he's chasing performance, because he's studying enough to know, yo, 664 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 3: I got I got the similance to something here like, 665 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 3: these are the right conditions that I need to pursue. 666 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 3: I need to take a next step, right, He decides 667 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 3: to write the next song, but on the way to 668 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,439 Speaker 3: write the song, on the way to deliver the song 669 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 3: to record the third verse, he realizes on the ride 670 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 3: over there, oh my god, it's working. I feel great, actually, 671 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 3: And so the third verse of the song is you 672 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 3: know the third active Rudy or Rocky or black Panther. 673 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 2: I mean it, just it. 674 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,760 Speaker 3: He turns it so that it is this positivity anthem, 675 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 3: and he releases that, and now the record really takes off. 676 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 2: Say that, to say this, the tenor. 677 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 3: Of that song changed from when he first released it 678 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 3: as a snippet to when he released it as a song, 679 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 3: and the only difference was what happened and the response 680 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,240 Speaker 3: that he got in between. That's what changed his entire 681 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 3: outlook and therefore changed the artist self. You can't know 682 00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 3: if you got to hit, but you can know if 683 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 3: if you feel something, and if other people feel something, 684 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 3: whether or not to invest more energy right. 685 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 2: There at that spot. 686 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 3: And that's what I would tell everybody that song. I 687 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 3: think I listened to that song over and over. I 688 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,720 Speaker 3: think this guy could burn down Coachella with that song. 689 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 3: I don't know if he ever will, but I know 690 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 3: he made it to my inbox. I now care about 691 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 3: his story, I now care about his brand, and hopefully 692 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 3: that's hit enough for him. 693 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 2: But he did. 694 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,800 Speaker 3: He played the game the right way. You see some response, 695 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 3: you invest, you change what it means or sorry, you 696 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 3: follow your own license, You obey your own license to 697 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 3: change what it means because you're in a different place. 698 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 3: You present that to people and they respond even more 699 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 3: so to it, including Cmosa. 700 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 2: You know made it distributes like I don't. I don't. 701 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 3: I don't have a cheat code for having a hit. 702 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 3: I have a cheat code for working really hard when 703 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 3: you see promises signal. 704 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 1: So I interviewed Marcus Collins on a couple of episodes ago, well. 705 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,919 Speaker 2: This is why you know the cookbooks. So well, here's 706 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 2: my co author, that's my brother. 707 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I asked him, I'm like, so Marcus, 708 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: and I am going close. I'm I need you to 709 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: send me some questions. What should I ask Chausa? And 710 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: so he sent me some questions to ask you. So, 711 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: so the first one, the first one is what responsibility 712 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: do marketers bear who leverage culture? As an influence as 713 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 1: a way to influence commerce. What responsibility do they have? 714 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 2: Oh, a hugely significant one and is one of the more. 715 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 3: Advertising specifically is one of the final we talked about 716 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 3: how you consume content today. Advertising in particular is one 717 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 3: of the few creative disciplines that gets you, whether you 718 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 3: want it or not. It's got an your final standard 719 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 3: out and the onus that that puts on someone is 720 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 3: so crazy when you consider that we got I mean, 721 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 3: just look at what is going on in Congress right now. 722 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 3: You can completely independently live in a totally separate bubble 723 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 3: of reality writ large. And so if you are gonna 724 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 3: if you are going to occupy spaces that definitionally I mean, 725 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,959 Speaker 3: for example, out of home, like I am talking about 726 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 3: no commercials, going out of home is something you got 727 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 3: to negotiate. If you're gonna be in the world with 728 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 3: out a home, billboards and so on and so forth, 729 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 3: you've got to negotiate what it says, whatever is what 730 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 3: is presenting you with. And that is an awesome responsibility 731 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 3: because it's one of the few places in which it's 732 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:57,240 Speaker 3: it's it's inarguable nobody gets to to choose to unsee 733 00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 3: what you just presented. But people can choose to unsee 734 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 3: almost everything else. But I would argue even people that 735 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 3: don't know that they are in the push culture forward 736 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 3: business still are. 737 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 2: They still are? You know? Look at bud Light. Bud Light. 738 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 3: Bud Light was one of the artifacts of Trump is America, 739 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 3: and it is now a rejected artifact because of these 740 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 3: decisions that were that were made. And you can think 741 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 3: whatever you want to think about how. 742 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 2: You might have, as. 743 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 3: A senior employee of ABM bev or at bud Light, 744 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 3: handled it or prevented it. The truth of the matter 745 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 3: is that huge things that mean the same thing to 746 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,919 Speaker 3: a lot of people at one time are very, very 747 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,759 Speaker 3: very rare, and they're so rare that you can watch 748 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,720 Speaker 3: it break. So all of a sudden, bud Light means 749 00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 3: this to so many people. It's like it's fun and 750 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:00,839 Speaker 3: it's football, when it's just that and. 751 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 2: Young and it's like, no, it's not. It belongs to us. 752 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,759 Speaker 3: And if you give it to anybody else, if you 753 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 3: let anybody, if you acknowledge anybody else, we won't have 754 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,640 Speaker 3: a problem in here, right. So just the bigness of 755 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 3: that brand alone is something that is delicate and rare, and. 756 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:23,320 Speaker 2: So the it is a tight rope exercise. 757 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 3: It is a tight rope walk to have anything that 758 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 3: huge in pop culture, and it's one that I, you know, 759 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:39,760 Speaker 3: I feel really great about being able to nudge broad 760 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 3: pop culture in the direction of values that I share 761 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 3: and I'm able to unearth from these humongous corporate giants who. 762 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 2: Don't know to write that down in. 763 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 3: Other words, beats right, like we were just telling them 764 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 3: or we were just talking about the Beat story. It 765 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 3: is terrifically meaningful to me that we have, moving over 766 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 3: a thousand or so days, that you can completely resuscitate 767 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 3: a brand globally at retail by focusing on and speaking 768 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 3: on behalf of black youth, not all you do, but 769 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 3: starting there as the lynchpin for everything else you're gonna do, 770 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 3: up to the point where this is now so hot 771 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 3: that you know your retailer is all excited and your 772 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 3: partners are all excited too. It's not even just it's 773 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 3: flying off the shelves. It's like Verizon executives knowing that 774 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:33,320 Speaker 3: this is hot all of a sudden. Again, that's a 775 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 3: great that's a great story for the agency. But what 776 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 3: I love about it is that It licenses somebody else 777 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 3: who works somewhere else to be able to follow in 778 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 3: those footsteps and go, hey, maybe you know those values 779 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 3: they don't. That doesn't have to just be reserved for 780 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 3: black youth. That could be deaf athletes. 781 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 2: Somewhere, somebody's gonna be. 782 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 3: Able to present that case of beats and be like, Yo, 783 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,839 Speaker 3: they went from absolutely cold to being the number one 784 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 3: gen Z brand and being able to sell out all 785 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 3: over the globe because they focused on this one thing. Now, 786 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:05,879 Speaker 3: this is what I'm trying to tell you about these 787 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 3: deaf athletes, and to the extent that I can enable 788 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 3: that just in my own success, I'm terrifically proud. But 789 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:23,399 Speaker 3: I will tell you somebody's got to figure out They 790 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 3: just haven't figured it out just yet. Somebody's got to 791 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 3: figure out how to treat trumpest men with the same 792 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:37,200 Speaker 3: care to they've treated other small groups. It is a culture, 793 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,800 Speaker 3: and it has It is a network that has correspondent rituals, artifacts, 794 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:45,720 Speaker 3: languages that express underlying beliefs, and people that are cracking 795 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 3: it are only kind of sort of cracking it. Eventually, 796 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 3: somebody's going to create a multicultural offering that is specifically 797 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 3: for trumpest men, you gotta be ready for that too. 798 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: I've got one minute left. He gave me two more, 799 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna do one more in an interest of time. 800 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,880 Speaker 1: He asked, what does the future of advertising look like 801 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: when there are so many factors eroding at its core 802 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: offering creativity? 803 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 2: What does the future of advertising look like? 804 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 1: Say it again, what does the future of advertising look 805 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,560 Speaker 1: like when there are so many factors eroding at its 806 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: core offering creativity? 807 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 3: Look, I reject that thesis creativity is not being eroded 808 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:37,280 Speaker 3: at all. The rights of a very small, highly trained 809 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 3: feud to suggest that they have brought creativity to bear 810 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 3: and they and they alone, you know, have access to it. 811 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 2: That's what has eroded. 812 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 3: And you know, as proud as I am of any 813 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,600 Speaker 3: standing staff that we have here and their ability to 814 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,279 Speaker 3: go out and do this work on behalf of when 815 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 3: I see artists in pipeline all the time that have ideas. 816 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 4: That are black and level ideas I'm talking caum myan 817 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,280 Speaker 4: monster ideas, uh, and they have shown. 818 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 2: I just feel really grateful that I have a reason 819 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,879 Speaker 2: to pay attention to the. 820 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 4: Creative class that never comes up under the roof of 821 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 4: any advertising agency or any marketing discipline or not, and 822 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 4: I get to study them because I get strusted as 823 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 4: much game from a seventeen year old who managed to 824 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 4: make it into my feet as I ever got from 825 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,760 Speaker 4: Dan Widen. My two. 826 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:51,800 Speaker 1: Style Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity 827 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,400 Speaker 1: afro Tech on the Black Effect podcast Networking Night Heard Media. 828 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: It's produced by Morgan Debond and me Well Lucas, with 829 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,800 Speaker 1: additional production support by Sarah Ergin and Rose McLucas. Special 830 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,840 Speaker 1: thank you to Michael Davis, Vanessa Surrondo, and Maya Moldrew. 831 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: Learn more about my guests and other technistors and innovators 832 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,400 Speaker 1: at afrotech dot com. Join your black Tech dream money, 833 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,799 Speaker 1: Share this to somebody, Go get your money, piece and love. 834 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:27,000 Speaker 1: Afrotech is a global gathering where inclusive tech companies meet innovators. 835 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,359 Speaker 1: It's the only tech event you need all year. Get 836 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,120 Speaker 1: ready for afro Tech twenty twenty three in Austin, Texas 837 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,840 Speaker 1: novemberfers through the fifth We built a whole temper you 838 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:36,880 Speaker 1: can use to help you get your employer to sponsor 839 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 1: your trip and enjoy experiences built for every stage of 840 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 1: your career, whether you're a college student looking for your 841 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: next internship, or if you work in anvention capital looking 842 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,640 Speaker 1: for your next business to invest in, and if you're 843 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: looking for a co founder of people that join your team, 844 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 1: there's no better place to be. The massive corporate layoffs 845 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three have affected 846 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,160 Speaker 1: our community in a big way, and afrotech wants to 847 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,280 Speaker 1: help you get back on your feet with skill development, 848 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,880 Speaker 1: making it easier to switch industries. It that's your route, 849 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,399 Speaker 1: in an afrotech, you'll make connections to help you get 850 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,800 Speaker 1: your next opportunity. Visit afrotech dot com slash conference to 851 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:07,319 Speaker 1: learn more