Speaker 1: Be Around with the NFL Podcast, Quarrant, Jeane more like
Speaker 1: Core and Wheni's welcome to another edition of the Around
Speaker 1: the NFL Podcast. I'm Dan as Heroes here, Greg Rostal,
Speaker 1: Mark Sessler. I actually this is interesting. Okay. So this morning,
Speaker 1: Tuesday Morning Money and I we do our Power Rankings
Speaker 1: taping as we do every week. You can check that
Speaker 1: out on NFL Network every Tuesday at three pm Eastern
Speaker 1: noon Pacific. And after we finished taping, one of our producers,
Speaker 1: the Great Matt Tanton, I believe it was rolled in
Speaker 1: with a piece of paper and said, hey, we have
Speaker 1: we have money tags to read for the A T
Speaker 1: N show, and uh Money, who's been doing it? Now?
Speaker 1: You know he's the voice of God of the show
Speaker 1: for eight years, nine years, almost ten years without a
Speaker 1: single cent of pay, and I think it's starting to
Speaker 1: get on his radar a little bit. Just I'm just
Speaker 1: saying it now that you know I'm there anyway, I
Speaker 1: get to watch him record. Roughly, I'm gonna say fifty
Speaker 1: money tags today including that one, and we got some
Speaker 1: real bangers coming out. So thank you to everyone who
Speaker 1: sends in money tags through Twitter and at Ricky Uh
Speaker 1: good element of the show. How much do you think
Speaker 1: we'd owe him over the course of the entire show.
Speaker 1: I mean he's doing fifty at a time. Um, I
Speaker 1: feel like we owe him thousands and thousands of dollars.
Speaker 1: We probably do. But Money is I think sneaky rich
Speaker 1: he has. He has like fourteen jobs. He's very smart financially.
Speaker 1: Remember we haven't had a short lived bit on this
Speaker 1: show where money talks money. Uh, and we used to
Speaker 1: think is money though I don't know if it's I
Speaker 1: don't know sea. So I think he has a bunch
Speaker 1: of investments in the water. I mean, I mean he
Speaker 1: has the most popular drivetime show in Los Angeles for
Speaker 1: a decade or whatever it's been now. Uh, he's the
Speaker 1: voice of the Rams. He's got a bunch of jobs here.
Speaker 1: I do think are the charges. Wow, what a what
Speaker 1: a mistake. That's the great JB. Long. By the way,
Speaker 1: my friend who I'll be hanging out with summer Selstice,
Speaker 1: just think of the exposure we've given. Uh. That's like
Speaker 1: how they pay you know, you pay interns or whatever, like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, well, this will be great exposure you go
Speaker 1: on radio shows, exposure like the the audience that that
Speaker 1: money has been introduced to is it's irreplaceable that value?
Speaker 1: That's perfectly said, Greg, How would you know, uh, fifteen
Speaker 1: year old guys in eastern Norway know about Matt money
Speaker 1: Smith without our show, right like Petros of money big
Speaker 1: time show in southern California. But what kind of range
Speaker 1: does it have in Wales. It's it's limited, just just
Speaker 1: by its nature. Anyway, welcome to the show, uh big
Speaker 1: show coming up today. The wild Card round officially in
Speaker 1: the books, kind of a dud. Let's let's be real
Speaker 1: about it. The last chance we had was ram Cardinals.
Speaker 1: We're all three of us were at the games with
Speaker 1: our friends and family at the game with our friends
Speaker 1: and family, and we saw an absolute slaughter. And this
Speaker 1: was an interesting stat I saw on Twitter or a
Speaker 1: little uh tidbit that there were six wild card games
Speaker 1: played and not a single one of them had a
Speaker 1: lead change in the second half. So what that tells
Speaker 1: me is we're do boys, that we're due for the
Speaker 1: divisional round, which is always the best weekend of football
Speaker 1: the year. To be an absolute haymaker of like Haymaker
Speaker 1: after Haymaker of classics, well, and to to kind of
Speaker 1: talk about Mark's theory throughout the course of the season
Speaker 1: in general, which is like he has no time for
Speaker 1: teams that aren't real threats. We just got rid of
Speaker 1: a lot of teams that had no business being in
Speaker 1: the playoffs. It almost felt like most of them. And
Speaker 1: now we're with eight teams and I know, like the
Speaker 1: Bengals faced some long odds here, but it's like, couldn't
Speaker 1: you see anyone of these eight teams winning the Super Bowl?
Speaker 1: All four of these matchups are great. It's when you
Speaker 1: have no upsets and the was a mild upset and
Speaker 1: then you have a bunch of blots like you that
Speaker 1: means the next round should be all the more better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the football collective took the trash out. And I can
Speaker 1: even remember back to, you know, Sunday night where I
Speaker 1: was There was a part of me thinking that it
Speaker 1: was kind of delightful and chaotic that the Steelers were
Speaker 1: beating the Chiefs and might maybe even knock off the Chiefs.
Speaker 1: What a what a mental state I was in, because like,
Speaker 1: we are dealing with the teams we want to deal
Speaker 1: with now, and the lesser has been and we saw
Speaker 1: one last night. Um are out the door, right because
Speaker 1: there were no real upsets in the first round. That
Speaker 1: means there's not that divisional game where it's like, all right,
Speaker 1: there's one game that we kind of know what's going
Speaker 1: to happen because a team snuck by in the wild card. No,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be a lot of fun kid championship
Speaker 1: games like that over the years. I do not think
Speaker 1: we're getting that in any in any way in any
Speaker 1: matchup this year. The night like to bring of the
Speaker 1: power ranks again, apologies, but I have the Rams is
Speaker 1: my number eight team, and like you were saying, Greg,
Speaker 1: the Rams could absolutely win the Super Bowl. Did you
Speaker 1: see the Rams? Yeah, but like there's seven really good
Speaker 1: teams ahead of them, like really good teams. I'd put
Speaker 1: them ahead of the Titans and the Bengals, and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe that's it. Maybe is probably it's a sixth eight
Speaker 1: whatever um. Alright, So, speaking of the Rams, they had
Speaker 1: to take out the garbage, and we don't want to
Speaker 1: be cruel. These are the humans involved with the Arizona
Speaker 1: Cardinals are not garbage humans. I don't know them personally.
Speaker 1: Maybe some are, but overall not all garbage. However, the
Speaker 1: team by the end of season was trash and they
Speaker 1: were treated as such at Sophie Stadium. Chase Edmonds is
Speaker 1: the back next to Kyler, ready to call forth three
Speaker 1: to his rot. Takes the snap, sets the laces, bouncers
Speaker 1: in the pocket, hit from behind, flips it forward, is intersupted, intershupted,
Speaker 1: pick six David Junior, what's it at the one two? Boy? Well,
Speaker 1: this wasn't technically Monday night football, but it's our last
Speaker 1: stance to hear the song for a while, so we'll
Speaker 1: roll with it. Yes, that was the nail and the
Speaker 1: coffin for the Arizona Cardinals, who know showed in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles Sun Monday night eleven. The Rams roll that pit
Speaker 1: six by by the way, so I went to the
Speaker 1: game with Zumwalt die hard Cardinals fans as the listeners
Speaker 1: of the show. Surely no, and he wasn't confident at
Speaker 1: all entering action, but excited as he should be. You
Speaker 1: get a chance to see your team in the playoff game.
Speaker 1: But just watching the way that game started, the Rams
Speaker 1: had twenty one points before the Cardinals had a first down.
Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about. So this is a game
Speaker 1: that the better team obviously one and moves on and
Speaker 1: the Cardinals a lot of questions. Mark that it Pick
Speaker 1: six that we just heard from the great JB. Long.
Speaker 1: I'm going to think about that one for a long
Speaker 1: time when I think about Kyler Murray because I know
Speaker 1: a lot of the heat's gonna be on Cliff Kingsbury.
Speaker 1: But that Picks six, Oh, that one's gonna stick to
Speaker 1: my ribs when I think about where to put that
Speaker 1: guy in the conversation the quarterbacks. Yeah, I think we
Speaker 1: need to quiet um, We need to grow to a
Speaker 1: hush when it comes to offseason m v P concepts
Speaker 1: and projections and sticking Kyler Murray into that conversation again,
Speaker 1: He's not there right now. And if anything, I give
Speaker 1: the Cardinals credit for closing their story in appropriate fashion,
Speaker 1: because they've essentially been like a vessel screaming towards Earth
Speaker 1: for the past month plus. I've not wanted to believe it.
Speaker 1: I thought they could do a little bit more last night,
Speaker 1: but Kyler Murray's performance was was a heightened version of
Speaker 1: what we've seen for weeks and weeks where the offense
Speaker 1: looks so out of sorts, and I guess you can
Speaker 1: just say, look at they don't have DeAndre Hopkins so
Speaker 1: they weren't the same, But that tells me a lot
Speaker 1: more about who the Cardinals are in general. If you
Speaker 1: lose one guy, this is happening to teams all over
Speaker 1: the league. I think this is there's a lot going
Speaker 1: on here. And it was a rough, rough night, and
Speaker 1: to me, I came out of it thinking that Cliff Kingsbury,
Speaker 1: who is sixteen and forty three, is a college in
Speaker 1: NFL coach after the seventh game of the season needs
Speaker 1: to learn how to manage an NFL season. That is
Speaker 1: a startling statistic. And I know we brought that up before,
Speaker 1: but Kyler Murray star has fallen right now. That play
Speaker 1: encapsulated everything that's been wrong with them, And I kind
Speaker 1: of wonder, from a Cardinals angirl, how do you sell
Speaker 1: coming back with this same offense next year? This concept,
Speaker 1: this playbook, because it seems figured out, or at least
Speaker 1: seems to not last for a full season. And the Rams,
Speaker 1: I mean, this version of the Rams can win this
Speaker 1: Super Bowl and any Super Bowl, I thought. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you got what you got last night, all the
Speaker 1: players they added the O B J is the von
Speaker 1: Miller Stafford throwing for thinking is this my new pet? Team,
Speaker 1: but I'll only doom them if I do that, So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just hold off, but massive respect. And I
Speaker 1: brought my son Calton, and Colton said to me two
Speaker 1: things during the game. He said about eight minutes and
Speaker 1: he said, this Cardinals offense is just not very good.
Speaker 1: I was like, Bingo, you're right. What when did the
Speaker 1: Cardinals turn into the line. It's pretty amazing because we
Speaker 1: all have gone with our kids too to hear what
Speaker 1: they have to say and to be at that experience.
Speaker 1: It was incredible to be at the game like it
Speaker 1: was the connestly the coolest thing I've done as a father.
Speaker 1: With Colton, I think in like a decade, and he
Speaker 1: became a Rams fan because of how stello they were
Speaker 1: perfect last night. They were pristine. You don't see teams
Speaker 1: play games like that. Yeah, you want to get fans
Speaker 1: Los Angeles to join you for the next generation, just
Speaker 1: like win playoff games. I mean, that's that's what got
Speaker 1: my daughter Alice. Three years ago, she went to the
Speaker 1: Cowboys one where they want a playoff game, and she
Speaker 1: went from a bucks Ish fan to a Rams fan
Speaker 1: and then last night enjoying that one Walker's a Pats
Speaker 1: fan but he's joining in the Rams party. We're up
Speaker 1: in up in the section. I got the binoculars out
Speaker 1: and that, you know, there's one thing about being up there.
Speaker 1: I think it's great. And you essentially get the all
Speaker 1: twenty two if you want to watch the pass routes,
Speaker 1: or you can do the binoculars and you can get
Speaker 1: kind of the end zone angle and watch the line play.
Speaker 1: And that was what and Walker just say another advantages.
Speaker 1: If you're also in the same section, you could watch
Speaker 1: Greg roseal used binoculars, which I heartily endorse us. You
Speaker 1: know a lot of people use binoculars a football, not
Speaker 1: a lot. Franklin Cardinals. No, not maybe not at the
Speaker 1: Rams Cardinals. The mismatch when the Rams were on defense
Speaker 1: in terms of their defensive line is what makes this
Speaker 1: team different right now than it was in October and
Speaker 1: makes it similar, I believe, to what they were at
Speaker 1: this point a year ago when they didn't really have
Speaker 1: an offense. The offense on Monday night was okay, It
Speaker 1: really wasn't great. They punted four times in the first half.
Speaker 1: They had three three and outs, including twice where they
Speaker 1: got the ball at the fifty or in or in
Speaker 1: Cardinals territory where they didn't do anything. It was. It
Speaker 1: was all about that defense to me. And von Miller's
Speaker 1: played his best game as a Ram three games in
Speaker 1: a row. Now he was dominant gains in Ashan Robbinson.
Speaker 1: I keep mentioning are winning their matchups and when you
Speaker 1: watch Donald get all this attention, like okay, that helps.
Speaker 1: Like now von Miller gets a one on one matchup
Speaker 1: against a struggling offensive line, and that's where it started.
Speaker 1: We can get into how bad the Cardinals are in
Speaker 1: and definitely the collapse, but I just think they were
Speaker 1: overmatched in terms of their offensive line, especially even if
Speaker 1: Kyler had played well. They had been relying on Kyler
Speaker 1: to pull magic out of his key star the last
Speaker 1: month or so just to get any offense going, and
Speaker 1: they didn't have it last night. And I give the
Speaker 1: Rams defense a ton of credit for that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think they do as I think they kind of match
Speaker 1: up well with the weakness of the Bucks, which might
Speaker 1: be their offensive line. After the events of Sunday, I
Speaker 1: think the this is a big confidence builder for l
Speaker 1: A after I would imagine they were a little bit cook,
Speaker 1: even if they're not going to tell you. After the
Speaker 1: forty Niners came back on him in week eighteen instill
Speaker 1: that game. So now you kinda you got your chest
Speaker 1: out again. You're feeling really good, and I don't think
Speaker 1: they're gonna be intimidated by the moment. I think Matthew
Speaker 1: Stafford getting that first playoff win, that's a positive thing.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting. You're absolutely right about von Miller. He
Speaker 1: went from being a bit of an after thought in
Speaker 1: the initial weeks after the trade, and I know he
Speaker 1: was still getting physically right because he was banged up
Speaker 1: at the time to now being a guy that that's
Speaker 1: showing up time and time again, not just in the
Speaker 1: box score, but yeah, when we're in the uh the
Speaker 1: real time, all twenty two seats, you could see the
Speaker 1: game in a different way and you could see how
Speaker 1: active he was. So Miller has been That was a
Speaker 1: smart trade. It's been working out and Odell. The Odell
Speaker 1: trade is turning into one of the more difficult trades
Speaker 1: to kind of make sense of because in somewhat like
Speaker 1: we were killing O'Dell last week, and if you look
Speaker 1: at his numbers, they're still not great, but he certainly
Speaker 1: has brought another element to this offense and he's been
Speaker 1: a god save uh for them because with Robert Woods
Speaker 1: going out of the lineup, but he's not the I
Speaker 1: think maybe it's like recalibrating expectations a little bit that
Speaker 1: he's not going to be that all time game changer
Speaker 1: he was early in his career. But he does bring
Speaker 1: things to this team. Whether it's in the red zone,
Speaker 1: you could pull off a trick play. He's still got
Speaker 1: great athletic talent, so he brings an element to that
Speaker 1: offense that wasn't there. So I think those two trades
Speaker 1: and and the team be less need and Sean McVeigh
Speaker 1: being aggressive and going all in, as the social media
Speaker 1: account told us, has paid off here and it's made
Speaker 1: them a better team. I'd give you another name to
Speaker 1: cam Akers. I mean cam Akers and Sony Michelle. I
Speaker 1: mean they ran the ball at a higher rate early
Speaker 1: in the game last night than they have all year.
Speaker 1: Cam Akers watching him live, I mean to come off
Speaker 1: an Achilles injury, which you know that's the one that
Speaker 1: kills running backs for you know, multiple seasons, he looked
Speaker 1: explosive to me. Um He's a total X factor for
Speaker 1: them down the stretch. Sony Michelle has been good for them,
Speaker 1: but they have much more balanced than they were able
Speaker 1: to have at other times in this season. Their offense
Speaker 1: to me, like, I don't need Matthew Stafford to throw
Speaker 1: for four D and fift yards. You've got to find
Speaker 1: different ways to beat teams. And I love the Acres,
Speaker 1: who I thought would have maybe been like a top
Speaker 1: five rusher this season with the way I thought they
Speaker 1: would use them before he was injured, is back in
Speaker 1: the mix. And to have O'Dell and to have Stafford
Speaker 1: when you get the good game from him, this offense
Speaker 1: is pretty fiery and excitable, and almost as excitable as
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things about the game in general
Speaker 1: was the female actress Nita Strouss. She's got her number
Speaker 1: one hits, but every time you're at that stagium and
Speaker 1: they cut to her, I always text and like she's
Speaker 1: on fire cranking these songs. I love the end game
Speaker 1: experience for that reason alone. Know about this thing that's
Speaker 1: going on with you and the blond guitar player at
Speaker 1: SOFI Stadium, Well, yeah, no does the guitar player now?
Speaker 1: I mean I saw her in the parking lot in
Speaker 1: the NFL Media parking lot leaving the game and it
Speaker 1: was almost like scenes Man Spider Man, just like out
Speaker 1: of their natural habitat. It was just like, oh, you
Speaker 1: you exist in another world other than just shredding on
Speaker 1: the big she was she carrying her axe around. And
Speaker 1: Mark also wants to know what license plate number and state? Right?
Speaker 1: License plate state? Um, you know, social security, just like
Speaker 1: a general make on the cars Sedan. What are we talking, suv? Hey,
Speaker 1: let's hear Cliff Kingsbury sounding sad and forlorn and totally
Speaker 1: confused about what to do next. You know, you come
Speaker 1: out against a really good team and don't do anything
Speaker 1: right for the first two quarters, that's what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I gotta give them credit. They played a great game,
Speaker 1: and um, we didn't do much right coaching or playing
Speaker 1: the first half. Why do you feel like this team
Speaker 1: came out like that? I'm not sure. Um, that's then
Speaker 1: we gotta figure out. You know, that's what those guys
Speaker 1: are talking about in the locker room. Um, you gotta
Speaker 1: use as motivation and come back stronger from it. Um,
Speaker 1: because that's not indicative of who we want to be.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately that showed up tonight. Alright, So so with Kingsbury,
Speaker 1: I think his path is pretty clear that he's going
Speaker 1: to be okay this year, I imagine, and then he'll
Speaker 1: be on the hot seat next year and they're gonna
Speaker 1: need to show that they're not going to fade again.
Speaker 1: If they fade again, my guess is they start over
Speaker 1: the Kyler Murray thing. And you could tell me that
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be too hard on him here, but I
Speaker 1: I I'm I think I'm starting I'm starting a waiver
Speaker 1: on Murray here, and it's it's for two reasons. Because
Speaker 1: you could say, well, he wasn't the same once again
Speaker 1: after he came back from that injury, so maybe he
Speaker 1: wasn't physically right. Okay, in that case, that's back to
Speaker 1: back season that that a somewhat undersized quarterback has been
Speaker 1: compromised by a very physical game. Or you can look
Speaker 1: at the other way and take the injury or the
Speaker 1: possibility wasn't healthy out of it and say, okay, he
Speaker 1: lost his number one wide receiver, but then could do
Speaker 1: nothing to make a team better. And it's like Joe
Speaker 1: burrowed to use an example, Joe Burrows the type of guy.
Speaker 1: To me, you could take Jamar Chase out of the
Speaker 1: lineup and I think he'd still move the team. Tom
Speaker 1: Brady obviously exact. It's proving you take some guys out,
Speaker 1: he's still gonna move the offense. I'm starting to wonder
Speaker 1: if Kyler, for all the hype and how how exciting
Speaker 1: he could be as a player, is ultimately been overrated
Speaker 1: by us in the football gag that's sent the You've
Speaker 1: been pump him up the most, and I wonder, well,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying, and I wonder if that interception
Speaker 1: in the end zone is going to be remembered as
Speaker 1: a turning point in his career. Have a bit of
Speaker 1: a hunch has been tough on Kyler Murray for for
Speaker 1: a while about his size. Is he all out at
Speaker 1: this point? I mean that would have been a He's
Speaker 1: never really been all in, so yeah, But that's more
Speaker 1: the first time I had like a sincere doubt about him.
Speaker 1: I know that's not really a popular opinion because everybody's
Speaker 1: gonna come after Cliff greg and say he's the problem
Speaker 1: or this is the problem, or that's the problem. But
Speaker 1: I I'm starting to getting a vibe eventually the finger
Speaker 1: is going to end up a QB. Well, but then
Speaker 1: make it clear that you're pointing, I guess I I disagree.
Speaker 1: So have I not made myself clear just now? Right? I?
Speaker 1: I disagree hard because I think the best way to
Speaker 1: valuate these guys over sixteen games, for instance, like his
Speaker 1: year end QB Index ranking just as as one way
Speaker 1: to do it as a rookie, really good for a
Speaker 1: rookie tenth his second year, seventh this year, he's a
Speaker 1: third year quarterback who just played a terrible playoff game,
Speaker 1: like we've seen many young quarterbacks like Peyton Manning and
Speaker 1: many others start their playoff career terribly. Now am I
Speaker 1: worried about the marriage of Kingsbury and Kyler? Yes, because
Speaker 1: I think that with the talent and with what was
Speaker 1: around Kyler and Kyler's abilities, that ultimately you can't have
Speaker 1: this happening. Because I disagree on that he didn't lift
Speaker 1: his team because the only times they moved the ball
Speaker 1: over the last five weeks, and I've been banging this drum,
Speaker 1: is Kyler Murray making like huge, big time plays and
Speaker 1: everything else is like a four yard throw to Earth's Now?
Speaker 1: Does does Murray bear some responsibility for that? Sure? But
Speaker 1: he sort of won that game in Dallas by himself.
Speaker 1: He put up that was the only time they won
Speaker 1: for the But he put up my point is not
Speaker 1: much as happening within the natural progression of the offense.
Speaker 1: And I do put that more on Cliff when I
Speaker 1: see Kyler have every trait possible, not just the arm strength,
Speaker 1: but generally the decision making and the running. And again,
Speaker 1: like I said, over a sixteen game schedule, like he
Speaker 1: has improved steadily every single season. That's what we want.
Speaker 1: And and I thought he it's not like I thought
Speaker 1: he played poorly down the stretch for the most part,
Speaker 1: Like he made some big time mistakes once they were
Speaker 1: trailing games, and last night was an absolute fiasco. But
Speaker 1: I tend to not put too much more on one
Speaker 1: playoff game, or even two playoff games. Um, then I
Speaker 1: do a whole career, because I think those things tend
Speaker 1: to balance out in general. I mean, the way, one
Speaker 1: way I agree with you, Greg, is that I think
Speaker 1: we just naturally of a human tendency to isolate the
Speaker 1: results from the quarterback. And it's it's like the way
Speaker 1: that an offense runs. It's like so sy systemic, it's
Speaker 1: so environmental. He's packed to something that might not be
Speaker 1: advantageous for him. I wonder if he's in the wrong offense.
Speaker 1: It's it's like also, their offensive line issues were horrendous
Speaker 1: for him when he came back and all that business.
Speaker 1: There have been injuries, but I but I don't like
Speaker 1: I also look at the calamary experience. He's had some
Speaker 1: incredible plays and he's done calamary things. But I would
Speaker 1: think it's a little bit shaky for me too, that
Speaker 1: like this suddenly is a guy that we still look
Speaker 1: at as an m v P. I just don't right now.
Speaker 1: But no one, no one. I mean people put it
Speaker 1: in in preseason articles like they did with Matthew Stafford
Speaker 1: every other year, including this year, and he'd about in
Speaker 1: week nine. But he's never been that guy. I guess
Speaker 1: in week nine I did right, he absolutely was, and
Speaker 1: then he struggled down this stretch. But he's also how
Speaker 1: old is he twenty four? I mean he's younger than
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow. That matters. That matters to me, like like
Speaker 1: the fact that he's a third year quarterback. I have
Speaker 1: major doubts about Kingsbury and we've had a lot of people,
Speaker 1: including Spice Rack, who thinks he's one of the worst
Speaker 1: coaches that's ever gotten the head coaching job. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's played out that way, but I do think
Speaker 1: it's absolutely air to say whether he's the right coach
Speaker 1: for Kyler Murray. And if they did fire him, I
Speaker 1: think and they had a great idea of where to
Speaker 1: go next, I wouldn't kill him for that. You know,
Speaker 1: it would feel like a Josh Rosen type of move
Speaker 1: out of Arizona. Like I'm not even totally a hundred
Speaker 1: percent convinced Kingsbury's back. If you wanted to be bold
Speaker 1: and you don't feel like he's the guy, Okay, do it?
Speaker 1: I guess that's what I think they I think they
Speaker 1: should if they have doubts, if they think that Murray
Speaker 1: faded and the Cardinals faded down the stretch because of
Speaker 1: the coaching. You know, you have a finite amount of
Speaker 1: time to really cash in on this guy, and he's
Speaker 1: on his rookie deal still. I just I just that's
Speaker 1: kind of to me a little bit predictable in the
Speaker 1: sense that I kind of knew this is how it's
Speaker 1: gonna play all the all the blame is gonna go
Speaker 1: on the coach here and not he had a terrible game,
Speaker 1: and the team was that by the end of the year.
Speaker 1: It was a meeting. It was a poor team by
Speaker 1: the end of the year. And I think what you're
Speaker 1: saying is what basically everyone else is going to be
Speaker 1: saying as well. And I just I don't know, there's
Speaker 1: something about the nature of way this season ended that
Speaker 1: I don't know how you can't be a little bit
Speaker 1: nervous about Kyler based on how things ended. I mean,
Speaker 1: he melted down last night. He did well. What about
Speaker 1: Steve Kim who seems to escape all critique all the time.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like this, the roster looked good at
Speaker 1: one point this year, but I think last night was
Speaker 1: the cap and the capstone of like, there's issues when
Speaker 1: the when there were injuries, there's no one to fill in,
Speaker 1: there's depth problems. I mean, I just I think he's
Speaker 1: done a pretty good job, Steve Kind, But he's part
Speaker 1: of this soup too. I don't think anyone's blaming it's
Speaker 1: you can't just blame the coach, the quarterback and then
Speaker 1: no one else. This is a team that failed. I
Speaker 1: mean J. J. Watt had it right, a massive failure.
Speaker 1: My my thing is more sample size I really do
Speaker 1: think the season and in the overall trajectory of a
Speaker 1: career is more instructive than a game. Like Peyton Manning,
Speaker 1: for instance, And I know he's I don't think he's
Speaker 1: gonna be Peyton Manning, but I think we've established he's
Speaker 1: probably a top ten quarterback three years into his career,
Speaker 1: which is incredible to find one of those Peyton Manning's
Speaker 1: first three playoff games nine lost, seventeen for thirty two,
Speaker 1: lost fourteen for thirty one, forty one to nothing loss.
Speaker 1: Uh you know that. And and I know we didn't
Speaker 1: have Twitter back then, and I know some quarterbacks play
Speaker 1: well in the playoffs, But I just it was one
Speaker 1: game on a bad Cardinals team. And it's crazy because
Speaker 1: five weeks ago we might have said this was the
Speaker 1: best team in the NFL, and over the last five
Speaker 1: or six weeks they were like obviously a poor team,
Speaker 1: which is great. It is crazy that I try to
Speaker 1: I guess. I just my final thought on is I
Speaker 1: tried to avoid these spicy takes that you would maybe
Speaker 1: see on certain talking head shows. Um, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just gotta maybe it was being at the game.
Speaker 1: Maybe Zumwalt in my orbit, maybe this, maybe that, but
Speaker 1: we'll see, well, we'll see where they are this time
Speaker 1: next year. Um. But Kingsbury obviously is a part of
Speaker 1: this conversation. He's it's a big part. Um. All right,
Speaker 1: that is the wild card round, but we have so
Speaker 1: much more to get it right after this. All right,
Speaker 1: welcome back. It is time for a guest and listen.
Speaker 1: Like the rest of the world, we are caught up
Speaker 1: in Bengals fever. We want to get closer to this
Speaker 1: team that's become in a lot of ways, America's sweetheart here,
Speaker 1: so we brought on a big gun. He's senior writer
Speaker 1: and podcast host covering the Cincinnati Bengals and more for
Speaker 1: the Athletic. Once was dubbed the man who sets social
Speaker 1: media on fire. I don't know if he got any
Speaker 1: of the New York Times money connected to the Athletic.
Speaker 1: That's not That's a question that will come. It's pronounced Danner,
Speaker 1: don't you forget it. Paul Danner Junior. Welcome to be
Speaker 1: around the NFL podcast. What's up? Thanks for having me,
Speaker 1: young guys. All right, so, Paul, you have been covering
Speaker 1: the Bengals for a decade, so you're kind of like,
Speaker 1: as the rest of us are trying to come to
Speaker 1: terms of the world in which Cincinnati is producing the
Speaker 1: most exciting football team in the country, what's it been
Speaker 1: like for you as someone that's covered the team so
Speaker 1: closely and been through the highs and lows, mostly lows.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of, as people got to witness
Speaker 1: on Saturday night, become as much as it's about Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow and it's about the turnaround, it's about the excitement
Speaker 1: of the team Saturday night, and it was the culmination
Speaker 1: of a season that in many ways has been about
Speaker 1: this city. Uh. That has been, as everybody heard by now,
Speaker 1: thirty one years without a playoff win. But it wasn't
Speaker 1: just that they had been thirty one years without a
Speaker 1: playoff winn. It's that they had all been heartbreaking in
Speaker 1: the fashion in which they had gone down. You guys
Speaker 1: are familiar with that. I miss West because I always
Speaker 1: loved talking to him about the Bengals and his angst
Speaker 1: over how things had gone down. Every time I would
Speaker 1: see him, and he would get so fired up about it. Uh.
Speaker 1: And and so you guys know, I mean, those that
Speaker 1: follow the Bengals know like that the city is so
Speaker 1: hung up and and frustrated by this like black cloud
Speaker 1: that hung over them because no matter what they did well,
Speaker 1: how many good draft classes they turned out, how many
Speaker 1: big regular season games they won, how many shrewd moves
Speaker 1: they made, it was always invalidated by the last line
Speaker 1: of yeah, but you didn't win a playoff game every
Speaker 1: single time. And so for that to be gone to
Speaker 1: no longer have to discuss the nineties Bengals, or the
Speaker 1: meltdown at Paul Brown or any of the Carson Palmer's
Speaker 1: injury and chemo v on Olhapa, to never have to
Speaker 1: discuss that again and just talk about the future. And
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow has been a game changing not just night,
Speaker 1: but season for the city. And now they can all
Speaker 1: it can be about them. Now it can be about
Speaker 1: that team that is so exciting to watch on the field. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when Zach Taylor said every one can take a deep breath,
Speaker 1: I almost thought, man, this is Zach Taylor again. You know,
Speaker 1: play being almost a little tight in the moment, I
Speaker 1: thought in terms of how he coached the second half
Speaker 1: of that game, and that the whole point of it
Speaker 1: isn't to get over relief. But it seems like he
Speaker 1: actually had a pretty good finger on the pulse of
Speaker 1: the city and that's where he was getting at. It
Speaker 1: was just seeing him and Burrow back to back, with
Speaker 1: Burrow with the tinted shades kind of being like, I
Speaker 1: expected to do this quicker than we did. This is nothing,
Speaker 1: let's go on. That's a big dichotomy. But you spoke
Speaker 1: about the fans, so I just wanted to follow on
Speaker 1: that because it seems like the fans are incredibly confident,
Speaker 1: and I'm including the Westling Brothers in that, of which
Speaker 1: you could be one just the looks, you know, with
Speaker 1: the facial hair and the shaved head, you could be
Speaker 1: a Westling brother. It almost feels like this this Bengals fandom, though,
Speaker 1: has gone the complete other direction where they're expecting them
Speaker 1: to go to the Super Bowl. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: confidence with this team right now. Oh there is. I
Speaker 1: would like to say, bald is the new hair. By
Speaker 1: the way, it's the end, so don't believe and forget
Speaker 1: about that. But the thing is, you know, it is
Speaker 1: amazing in the lead up to that game, a city
Speaker 1: that was so scarred, a fan base so scarred to
Speaker 1: expect the other shoe to drop didn't have that at all,
Speaker 1: and I suspect, is this city suppressing its emotions. I've
Speaker 1: done that before when I suspect something bad, I'm feeling
Speaker 1: something bad inside. I just talk over it with optimism
Speaker 1: a little bit. It felt like that was happening because
Speaker 1: they didn't want to think about the idea. But also
Speaker 1: I think the city the same way. The team follows
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow's lead, and he just changes everything. You know,
Speaker 1: you talked about him downplaying it afterwards. I mean he's
Speaker 1: basically partially that's him. I mean, that's who that guy is.
Speaker 1: He is the type of guy that is very calm
Speaker 1: and and he's gonna be always thinking about bigger things.
Speaker 1: But he also I talked to a bunch of people
Speaker 1: about what is the IT factor? What has that tangibly
Speaker 1: looked like? And the line that always stuck out to
Speaker 1: me from that was he just has this innate feel
Speaker 1: for human dynamics and human interaction and what people need,
Speaker 1: what every person needs, and how that's different. And when
Speaker 1: somebody needs a pout on the back, some one needs confidence,
Speaker 1: someone needs a stern look, whatever that is. He knows
Speaker 1: that this the team needed to settle down and understand
Speaker 1: that this was not a big deal, and he was
Speaker 1: trying to project that out to the team in the
Speaker 1: same way, this is not a big deal, you know,
Speaker 1: this is the expectation. This is what we're gonna be.
Speaker 1: He called it today the bare minimum going forward, that
Speaker 1: they'll win playoff games every year, and I think everybody
Speaker 1: kind of looked at it and said, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I believe that guy. I think he's right. I think
Speaker 1: it is the bare minimum here going forward. Well, I
Speaker 1: love what you say about his leadership. And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a Browns fan, and a year ago I was
Speaker 1: sitting in this place thinking where the team from Ohio
Speaker 1: that wiped away all these terrible talks about the last
Speaker 1: time we want a playoff game with Bill Belichick beating
Speaker 1: Bill Parcels and then early nineties when I was in college.
Speaker 1: Now it's the Bengals, and I think that their star
Speaker 1: seems to be so much higher. I mean, one of
Speaker 1: the reasons that West dropped the Bengals, the primary reason
Speaker 1: that I thought it was was ownership. It was the
Speaker 1: way the team was run that, like you know, every
Speaker 1: other team in the league is dug in on a
Speaker 1: re scouting services. The Bengals are doing something from forty
Speaker 1: two years ago, like they were not active in free agency,
Speaker 1: but now they are. The team is building their drafting. Well,
Speaker 1: you look at this roster, you look at the quarterback.
Speaker 1: Do you think that ownership at this point is in
Speaker 1: the deep distance that the way the Bengals can operate
Speaker 1: to have the bare minimum be playoffs every year? The
Speaker 1: thing that annoyed West would he look at this team
Speaker 1: differently and say, I'm not so concerned about how it's
Speaker 1: run because this is a rocket ship just taking off
Speaker 1: at this point. I think so. I mean, Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: covers a lot of franchise warts Organization awards and he's
Speaker 1: done that. Um that said, they have performed off the
Speaker 1: field differently in the last few years. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can't look at their last two off seasons and say
Speaker 1: that they've looked like the same old Bengals. When you
Speaker 1: look at the amount of money they spent in free agency,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times that can be you're okay,
Speaker 1: free agency, I'm gonna flush about half of that down
Speaker 1: the toilet, but hopefully the other half turns out good.
Speaker 1: The Bengals hit on almost every free agency move that
Speaker 1: they made, this off season and some that were very controversial,
Speaker 1: and then they hit on the most controversial maybe pick
Speaker 1: of the entire draft, at least most talked about, uh
Speaker 1: leading up to it, between Jamar Chase versus and a
Speaker 1: school and what that has turned out to be for them,
Speaker 1: And and you have seen a different feel and now
Speaker 1: you have players that love being here and they love
Speaker 1: every aspect of it, and I think ownership has skewed younger.
Speaker 1: They've brought into Blackburn's uh you know your Katy and
Speaker 1: Troy Blackburn have even brought in their daughters now who
Speaker 1: are involved and have played a big role in reconnecting
Speaker 1: with the fan base. It's been a two year journey
Speaker 1: for them to try to do that. They've done new uniforms,
Speaker 1: they've done Ring of Honor, They've made a huge push
Speaker 1: that a ton of money on their social media and
Speaker 1: on improving their game day experience, all things that they
Speaker 1: deservedly were ripped for forever. Um how a practice that
Speaker 1: it's come, They've come a really long way. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I wish and I hope he is maybe somewhere listening
Speaker 1: to all that, because that was kind of gonna be
Speaker 1: my follow up question, Like what tangible steps were taken
Speaker 1: to change an operation that felt like it was stuck
Speaker 1: in the dark ages. And I guess getting younger, different
Speaker 1: voices in there has has made a big difference. And
Speaker 1: and Zach Taylor is another guy. Wanted to ask you
Speaker 1: about Paul because, um, you know, he was something of
Speaker 1: an unknown entering this year even though he had been
Speaker 1: there two years. We weren't seeing a lot of growth. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the Borough injury was a killer last year in terms
Speaker 1: of the development of the team. And I really like this,
Speaker 1: your colleague Mike Sando, the Cook Index, which is by
Speaker 1: the way, great name, great hook, where you actually can
Speaker 1: statistically see how a switch got flipped with Taylor and
Speaker 1: this offense and how they became more aggressive starting with
Speaker 1: that bad overtime loss of the Niners where they marched
Speaker 1: down the field and then kind of got cute and
Speaker 1: ran it twice and then failed on third down and
Speaker 1: and he said he lost sleep about And you wrote
Speaker 1: about this, and check out all Paul stuff on the
Speaker 1: Athletic And it's not like lip service or or beat
Speaker 1: writers looking for something to a narrative to craft. It's
Speaker 1: there in the pudding. They completely changed the way they
Speaker 1: ran their offense. Yeah, and it wasn't even as much
Speaker 1: about what happened in overtime, which was part of it.
Speaker 1: It was watching what Joe Burrow was in the fourth
Speaker 1: quarter and overtime of that game. He was that next level,
Speaker 1: truly elite guy. And part of that went back to
Speaker 1: they finally felt really comfortable with his pocket presence, pocket movement,
Speaker 1: and his confidence back there. People don't realize me. Yes,
Speaker 1: he's been playing all year, but he still had to
Speaker 1: mentally been working through the knee injury as the year
Speaker 1: has gone along. I mean, when you remember when he
Speaker 1: came out of l s U, his pocket presence back
Speaker 1: there was his superpower. It's it's it's what separated him.
Speaker 1: And he wasn't able to really totally be that guy
Speaker 1: throughout the first half of the season. So they protected him.
Speaker 1: They had a blind that wasn't great, so they protected
Speaker 1: him with a game that was They had very run
Speaker 1: heavy game plans. They knew they could still win that way.
Speaker 1: They had enough guys, Joe Mixon, whatever they could, their
Speaker 1: defense was playing good, they could win that way well.
Speaker 1: As it went by, and particularly at the end of
Speaker 1: that San Francisco get, you saw Okay, Burrow is all
Speaker 1: the way back and he is playing lights out. Let's
Speaker 1: lean into this. And they didn't just lean, they lean
Speaker 1: all the way and opened it up and and and
Speaker 1: that's early in games, really getting after people throwing the ball.
Speaker 1: And what happened. I mean, Baltimore, Kansas City, you saw it.
Speaker 1: Even early. They get up by letting Burrow throw it,
Speaker 1: and they play from a head. They've played from a head,
Speaker 1: and all of these four games in a row that
Speaker 1: they've won is he's kind of been on this heater.
Speaker 1: And that's a big part of just saying just go
Speaker 1: all the way in on on realizing that Burrow is
Speaker 1: gonna be the reason that we get there. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know the line isn't great, but he can overcome that.
Speaker 1: He's proving right now he can overcome that. Paul, I
Speaker 1: have a question for you, because, like you know, this
Speaker 1: is all wonderful news, very sunny, we're all enjoying the journey,
Speaker 1: but um, you know, like the average beat writer, I mean,
Speaker 1: typically the games, the travel, you know, the endless stories
Speaker 1: would have ended for you about two weeks ago. Is
Speaker 1: it slightly annoying on some level that if they go
Speaker 1: on for another three or four weeks. You're just taking
Speaker 1: it work wise. Question, you gotta answer there is no doubt.
Speaker 1: I mean, I used to say, because remember I covered
Speaker 1: this team from the eleven through fifteen run, where I
Speaker 1: had the perfect job because the team was relevant and interesting.
Speaker 1: I got to talk about the postseason instead of talking
Speaker 1: about the draft in December, and then they lost and
Speaker 1: I was immediately off to my offsets. They took the
Speaker 1: first exit out of the playoffs. It was the perfect
Speaker 1: set up. And now here I am wondering, like, am
Speaker 1: I gonna be working into February with this? So but
Speaker 1: you know what the way it goes now though full season,
Speaker 1: it's like the the cycle doesn't end. If it ended,
Speaker 1: if they would have been out, and I'd be doing
Speaker 1: mock drafts and everything else. So what does it matter anymore? Right,
Speaker 1: It's like it's like those Patriots reporters over the years,
Speaker 1: Mike Greece and Tom Current, they like put in three
Speaker 1: extra seasons compared to most writers. Very quickly, because I know,
Speaker 1: I know we're gonna have to let you go. I
Speaker 1: do just want to get a little bit of a
Speaker 1: look at this game and what you think are the
Speaker 1: concerns because i'd be. I'm concerned now that I'm kind
Speaker 1: of rooting for the Bengals, the line play on both sides,
Speaker 1: and the coaching. Frankly, so that's three things, but especially
Speaker 1: the coaching matchup, but the line play on both sides,
Speaker 1: with the injuries on the defensive line and just generally
Speaker 1: Matt matching up that offensive line against Tennessee's front, Like,
Speaker 1: how do you think the Bengals can overcome that deficiency?
Speaker 1: Because to me, it does not. That part of the
Speaker 1: game looks like a pretty big mismatch. Yeah, I would agree.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the trenches is gonna always gonna
Speaker 1: be this team's issue when they reached the highest levels.
Speaker 1: I mean, they can overcome that with their weapons against
Speaker 1: teams that that aren't as dynamic on the interior. But
Speaker 1: you know, from practice today, they look like they're not
Speaker 1: anywhere near as bad as shape as we thought they
Speaker 1: would be. On the defensive line. They did lose Larry
Speaker 1: Ogunjobi for the year. You know, Mike Daniels on the
Speaker 1: practice squad all year, and he heard his growing earlier
Speaker 1: in the game. So it's not a huge deal. Um
Speaker 1: that Trey Hendrickson looks like he's probably trending in the
Speaker 1: right direction. That's massive. Um Josh Tupo, who was a
Speaker 1: really nice situational defensive tackle they have, is gonna be
Speaker 1: able to step in. It looks like probably that helps
Speaker 1: lessen the blow because b J. Hill has played pretty
Speaker 1: well and Ogan jovis as a rotation guy. So I
Speaker 1: don't think they're as beset on the defensive line as
Speaker 1: you thought. And you know, they were team that was
Speaker 1: pretty good against the run this year, so they've always
Speaker 1: kind of felt that was maybe one of the strengths
Speaker 1: of themselves defensively. I think you can point to that.
Speaker 1: On the other side, you know, they've just struggled against
Speaker 1: teams that have really dynamic interior pass rushers, as you know,
Speaker 1: because they're just not good enough there and so Simmons
Speaker 1: is a nightmare scenario for you, and you just gotta
Speaker 1: find ways to try to take them out. I felt
Speaker 1: like they've done a decent job playing in this division,
Speaker 1: getting practiced at it, dealing with teams with great edge
Speaker 1: rushers Miles Garrett, T. J. Watt they found and then
Speaker 1: Crosby again last week, found ways that those guys maybe
Speaker 1: they win a bunch, but they don't kill you. But
Speaker 1: what what does seem to hurt them is when they
Speaker 1: have the guys in the interior, they don't really seem
Speaker 1: to have a ton of answers there. So Simmons certainly
Speaker 1: scares you more than anything. But then you say, I
Speaker 1: don't know, you got burrow and it's sort of like
Speaker 1: the heard every single question with this team right now. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, Paul, and thank you for joining us, buddy,
Speaker 1: and follow Paul on the athletic throughout this whole journey,
Speaker 1: both throughout the season and then into the off season.
Speaker 1: If the Bengals do knock off the number one seed
Speaker 1: Titans on Saturday, I think they become the biggest story
Speaker 1: in football, and then that's pretty good place to be
Speaker 1: as a beat writer, I would imagine, especially when you've
Speaker 1: been in the darkness, like when a certain linebacker ran
Speaker 1: into a tunnel when he thought a game was over
Speaker 1: and it wasn't over. Those days are gone. If you
Speaker 1: want me to come back and tell Vontes perfect stories
Speaker 1: for a while, I will do that, but you might
Speaker 1: want to I don't know. We're good on censorship, because
Speaker 1: that sounds like an awesome offseason podcast to be honest
Speaker 1: with you. It's just like the memoirs of Vontes. All right,
Speaker 1: thank you, Paul, appreciate it, and good luck the rest
Speaker 1: of the way. Thanks guys. Thanks there goes Paul. And
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, Ricky, that is one of those
Speaker 1: uh guess where it's like, all right, you put him
Speaker 1: in the Good Journey on a list. He's on the list.
Speaker 1: We got a Cincinnati guist. I interrupted Dan saying he
Speaker 1: was good. So I think we all agree that that,
Speaker 1: you know, and he does feel like the I'm sure
Speaker 1: that the Wesleyans. There are probably other Wesley brothers out there.
Speaker 1: They had so many kids you can't keep track of
Speaker 1: all of them. Maybe he is a Westley brother. We
Speaker 1: just we don't know that. Well, there's also some conspiracy
Speaker 1: theories that some of them aren't Westling brothers. But that's
Speaker 1: you know, that's again for an offseason podcast. It is
Speaker 1: telling to me that, you know what, west was so
Speaker 1: out there about not being a Bengals fan. But I
Speaker 1: don't know if he's having in depth conversations with every
Speaker 1: team's beat writer, you know what I mean. So, I
Speaker 1: mean he was with some to be fair, To be fair,
Speaker 1: he was with with some, but he was. He was
Speaker 1: tracking the Bengals much closer than than most teams, you
Speaker 1: know what. And and Greg, you and I were texting
Speaker 1: him a little bit about West yesterday and how you
Speaker 1: feel his absence always but certainly and certain shows playoff time,
Speaker 1: of course, and I was just thinking myself now, um,
Speaker 1: as Paul was explaining the changes that the Bengals made,
Speaker 1: I wonder what West would have thought about that, having
Speaker 1: that insight from someone who has ear to the ground there.
Speaker 1: But it's certainly it can't it can't be from futility
Speaker 1: and poor decision making too all of a sudden, the
Speaker 1: operation running smoothly without changes happening behind the scenes. So
Speaker 1: but you know, at the same time, I think it's
Speaker 1: important to point out that the quarterback can change everything.
Speaker 1: Because the Cincinnati, for all the the Brown family distrust Uh,
Speaker 1: they were going to the playoffs every year, they just
Speaker 1: didn't have a truly dynamic guy out front. And now
Speaker 1: they do. And that's I mean, a Patriots fan like you,
Speaker 1: Greg knows better than anyone it changes everything. I did
Speaker 1: not hear a single word that you just said. You
Speaker 1: and Greg are having separate uh text conversations with me.
Speaker 1: Not involved about things that matter to us. What's what's
Speaker 1: the dynamic here? Why is that occurring? Greg? You want
Speaker 1: to take this one? No, I don't know. It's better
Speaker 1: just leave it hanging, leave it open. Well it is.
Speaker 1: It is left out there hanging, and I will I'll
Speaker 1: think about it, you know, roughly twelve times a second
Speaker 1: for the next two or three days. All right, let's
Speaker 1: I love that. Let's take a break and we'll hit
Speaker 1: some news. All right, welcome back. Before we get to
Speaker 1: some iTunes listener feedback, let's hit a little bit of
Speaker 1: a league news as the personnel carousel that popped in
Speaker 1: my head while I was sitting in the section at
Speaker 1: so Fi Stadium yesterday. Personnel carousel not bad, that's that's
Speaker 1: what you're thinking about it live at the game. I like,
Speaker 1: it just happened. It just popped in there. You can't
Speaker 1: control that. Yeah, when you're when you're an artist, like
Speaker 1: a real artist, like when the inspiration comes, you just
Speaker 1: have to be open to it. I consider that that's
Speaker 1: like part of your job. Just like I had some
Speaker 1: up with me and I just got up in a
Speaker 1: panic and just like sprint it away. And he just
Speaker 1: nodded his had, and he's like, that's an artist at work.
Speaker 1: I mean, some ald at that point is just in
Speaker 1: a fetal position, so he's accepting any artistry that will
Speaker 1: come his way. I mean that was an apocalyptic evening,
Speaker 1: all right. So well, yes, as I said, personnel carousel,
Speaker 1: Mike Mayock will not be returning to the Las Vegas
Speaker 1: Raiders in the capacity of general manager. The team informed
Speaker 1: Mayok that they would not be signing to another contract.
Speaker 1: I think his contract was up. I think that was
Speaker 1: so I'm seeing it's fired. It's a little different when
Speaker 1: you just you move. That's kind of like we parted
Speaker 1: ways anyway. That doesn't matter career record and twenty four
Speaker 1: uh in Mayok seasons with the team, their first playoff
Speaker 1: appearance since two thousand sixteen and their only playoff appearance
Speaker 1: since two thousand two whether the storm numerous on and
Speaker 1: off the field contract verses. Remember may I remember how
Speaker 1: mad Mayock was on hard knocks when Antonio Brown froze
Speaker 1: his feet in the cryogenic chamber. Sounds like a long
Speaker 1: time ago, but yeah, then you know the Henry Ruggs
Speaker 1: tragedy earlier this year. Of course, the John Gruden situation
Speaker 1: and his resignation after the offensive emails came to light
Speaker 1: and Greg, I guess, first of all, sorry about your
Speaker 1: bad luck, Rich Pisaccia, because I think the one chance
Speaker 1: that he had to keep the head coach job was
Speaker 1: probably Mike Mayock sticking around. But uh, it almost feels
Speaker 1: like once Gruden got shipped out of town here. Uh,
Speaker 1: it meant that the whole thing was getting blown out, really,
Speaker 1: regardless of how the season turned out, which was kind
Speaker 1: of successful, right they if this wasn't enough to keep
Speaker 1: Macmayock's job or Rich Pisaccia's, and I think Posaccia has
Speaker 1: a fraction of a chance to to get that job.
Speaker 1: You never know, uh that nothing, nothing would have And
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate. You think about Mayak, who's you know, in
Speaker 1: his early sixties, coming from television. You know, he started
Speaker 1: that late, coming up like that. He knew this was
Speaker 1: his one chance. He was obviously appreciating this one chance.
Speaker 1: And he had a mixed record over the three years.
Speaker 1: Wasn't good in terms of the first round picks. Was
Speaker 1: quite good if you look at some of the guys
Speaker 1: that they got later in the draft, and even some
Speaker 1: of the moves this year, like picking up Casey Hayward,
Speaker 1: and and in gock Way and Crosby turns into this
Speaker 1: great guy. It was a mixed bag at best for
Speaker 1: Mayock overall. But if you're him, you're also thinking John
Speaker 1: Gruden um screwed me over. He added Mike Mayock to
Speaker 1: the innumerable people that debt John Gruden ultimately let down
Speaker 1: because if if they made the playoffs with John Gruden,
Speaker 1: I tend to think Mike Mayox probably back in that
Speaker 1: same role next year, but it didn't work out the
Speaker 1: way I mean. I'd also add that when you look
Speaker 1: at the draft history of Mike Mayock and and look,
Speaker 1: it's obviously spotty. He had thirteen picks in the top one.
Speaker 1: Two of them are probably viable players on the roster
Speaker 1: right now. But a lot of those picks were Gruden's picks,
Speaker 1: or at least heavily influenced by Gruden. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: Mike Mayock wasn't a separate personnel department giving the coaches players.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's always collaboration, but there are a lot
Speaker 1: of Gruden picks in there that Gruden is not held
Speaker 1: accountable for right now. I kind of just feel like
Speaker 1: they inherited a huge mess. And this team this year
Speaker 1: was imperfect. We all see that, and they've they've they've
Speaker 1: all every GM is gonna miss here and there on picks,
Speaker 1: and maybe they're maybe Mayock's record was, you know, lower
Speaker 1: than some, but they created a playoff team, and I
Speaker 1: kind of just feel it's unfortunate and and just the
Speaker 1: way the job goes. I'm so with you, Greg that
Speaker 1: it had Gruden tugged them into the playoffs and all
Speaker 1: that had not happened, Mack would still be here because
Speaker 1: he's done a pretty good job of adding talent compared
Speaker 1: to where they started. I just I find it to
Speaker 1: be kind of just like the hazard of the job
Speaker 1: of a GM. Well, it's tricky because again, as we
Speaker 1: were told old that it was nine in terms of
Speaker 1: control of the team, the personnel, Gruden fifty one, may
Speaker 1: forty nine. So at the same time, when you when
Speaker 1: you say that, you know you can't you ding Mayok
Speaker 1: for all the bad moves they made in the first round,
Speaker 1: and there were many, you also can't fully say it
Speaker 1: was all Mayok that ended up landing some of these
Speaker 1: later round picks that turned into really quality starters. Um
Speaker 1: And was another one this year Diablo looked pretty good.
Speaker 1: They brought in Darren Waller during Mike Max the slot
Speaker 1: receiver that Greg was very slow to come around on.
Speaker 1: That was the worst evaluation I've ever made it on
Speaker 1: this show in my life. You did that because of
Speaker 1: his hairline and I and I won't think it could
Speaker 1: be anything else. But um, I think in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways, yes, the raiders were imperfect, but the job
Speaker 1: opportunity was imperfect for Mac. But you understand why he
Speaker 1: ultimately jumped to it. He's sixty three now, he was
Speaker 1: sixty years old. He was the King of Draft Mountain
Speaker 1: on NFL Network and do a great job with that.
Speaker 1: And he had this opportunity to join Gruden and go
Speaker 1: for a ride and and he took it. But I
Speaker 1: think ultimately, when you're a personnel guy, you kind of
Speaker 1: want to have control of the ship and not being
Speaker 1: that type of situation, especially as someone that's kind of uh,
Speaker 1: I don't want to say volcanic, but someone with an
Speaker 1: ego the size of John Gruden's that seems always seemed
Speaker 1: like a very tough situation to be involved with. So
Speaker 1: I wonder if, if may I if he doesn't want
Speaker 1: to stay on this side of the sport, if he
Speaker 1: looks for a situation where he could actually have more, say,
Speaker 1: I don't know if he gets a big chair, a
Speaker 1: GM chair again, but if he tries to take this
Speaker 1: from a different angle, I think that was a unique opportunity.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's kind of come up again.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean he he couldn't possibly get a personnel job
Speaker 1: somewhere in the league, not as as the top guy,
Speaker 1: if he wanted to go that route. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like we've been kind of yeah, burying the You're
Speaker 1: at least not talking about the elephant in the room,
Speaker 1: which is what does this mean for Daniel Jeremiah, Because
Speaker 1: I think that's that's what I thought immediately upon this
Speaker 1: new And you know, he is the smiling assassin. Uh
Speaker 1: he is Jeremiah, guy that will pat you on the
Speaker 1: back as he ripped your heart out. Um, so you know,
Speaker 1: the first thing he did probably was text Mike and
Speaker 1: you know, uh, say hey, sorry about how things play out,
Speaker 1: you're the best and all that. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I'm sure his second call was probably the head of
Speaker 1: NFL Network and basically said back off, don't even think
Speaker 1: about bringing this guy back. In the building because this
Speaker 1: is my world. Now, I I'm prom king, I am
Speaker 1: prom slight projection, a slight projection, and we don't know
Speaker 1: that that's how this played out. I actually heard it.
Speaker 1: You know, he walked by a conference room and I
Speaker 1: can't say it was definitely moved the sticks speaking to
Speaker 1: the highest of the Shadowy League figures and you actually
Speaker 1: could hear I'm prom king. Now, was that Jeremiah? I
Speaker 1: can't say for sure, but it definitely had the tone.
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be a lot of people that
Speaker 1: a film network based on. We know about a lot
Speaker 1: of people at NFL network, so yeah, but he he
Speaker 1: fits the profile. I also wonder what it what it
Speaker 1: means for Derek Carr because at this point, like where
Speaker 1: is the where is the overwhelming interest from Mark Davis
Speaker 1: to sign Derek car to a five year extension? And
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we already know for me and
Speaker 1: Rappaport and reporting in general, it's gonna the environment's gonna
Speaker 1: change so much, new general manager, new coach. What are
Speaker 1: we promising them if you're Mark Davis, what what power
Speaker 1: do they have? And where does it leave Derek Carr?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's like I wouldn't move on
Speaker 1: from Derek Carr because what it's move on to what.
Speaker 1: But there seems to be trepidation to just hand him
Speaker 1: a big money extension. There's just no there's no wording
Speaker 1: around it, there's no whispers. Well, I thought Ian's report,
Speaker 1: you know, parsing, it was really interesting that he said
Speaker 1: it would be a mutual thing, and he did make
Speaker 1: it clear that the contract was a big part of it,
Speaker 1: that Car wants more money. He hopes Pasaccio is there.
Speaker 1: But Car has been arguably one one of the most
Speaker 1: underpaid quarterbacks that when he signed his deal, it was
Speaker 1: top of the market. People thought they got paid too much.
Speaker 1: But it's gotten to the point where he's quarterback in
Speaker 1: the league, has one year left on it. This is
Speaker 1: that off season where it's kind of, you know, you
Speaker 1: make a decision on Derek Carr or not. So the
Speaker 1: timing of it is interesting, and I think Car will
Speaker 1: push to get more money and to get some commitment
Speaker 1: to not be you know, floating in the wind this offseason,
Speaker 1: and maybe the new coach whoever they hire like loves
Speaker 1: Derek Carr. I feel like that's a very realistic possibility
Speaker 1: that they're like, Hey, we can win with this dude.
Speaker 1: Let's give him the money and Mark Davis goes along
Speaker 1: with that. We'll have plenty of time to speculate. But
Speaker 1: just for fun, I can't I can't stop thinking about
Speaker 1: how the Steelers are going to make a move. Derek
Speaker 1: Carr in a Steelers uniform. Actually it kind of works.
Speaker 1: It kind of works somewhere and the Raiders and I
Speaker 1: think would like him. I think he he kind of
Speaker 1: matches what they're looking for. Uh. And at the same time,
Speaker 1: the Raiders now that they're gonna bring in a new
Speaker 1: uh team builder and most likely a new head coach. Uh,
Speaker 1: do you want to start building with a thirty year
Speaker 1: old quarterback or your own guy that you developed. There's
Speaker 1: something here, because there has to be somebody that shakes
Speaker 1: loose to move the quarterback market. And if it's not
Speaker 1: gonna be Russell Wilson, maybe it's Derek Carr. I got
Speaker 1: another one for you. I mean, I I think we
Speaker 1: can't identify an owner who's more steamed at his quarterback
Speaker 1: right now, uh than Jim Mercy on the reliance of course,
Speaker 1: Carson wentz, what about Derek Carr teaming with Frank Reich.
Speaker 1: They're both very religious men. I think they see the
Speaker 1: world the same way. Um he I think he could
Speaker 1: maximize Carson. I don't know, Yeah, but that's I'm just
Speaker 1: saying that it's he's not bringing you're not bringing in
Speaker 1: some sort of like rebel from the countryside. I think
Speaker 1: Derek Carr is amenable to, you know, coaching, and on
Speaker 1: top of it, like Frank Reich, for all his skills,
Speaker 1: has been lodged with three different starting quarterbacks over three
Speaker 1: years since I Andrew Luck vanished into the mist. I mean,
Speaker 1: they would love to get someone like Derek Carr they
Speaker 1: can sign for you know, the next five years and
Speaker 1: actually have consistency under center. I mean, Steelers fans, especially
Speaker 1: older Steelers fans, have had a out of great things
Speaker 1: in their lifetime. So it's not like they don't deserve
Speaker 1: a little time rolling around in the bud with the
Speaker 1: rest of us. But even even the Steelers don't deserve
Speaker 1: late period big Ben into Carson Wentz, musical chairs turned down,
Speaker 1: or to Mason Rudolph. I mean, the Athletic wrote that
Speaker 1: all signs point to Rudolph getting a chance, to which
Speaker 1: I say, I don't believe that, right Hill until player
Speaker 1: X becomes available with they know behind the scenes, I
Speaker 1: don't know what it was. It was more it was
Speaker 1: more like that would be the most evil thing to
Speaker 1: happen to Steelers Jan's and yet I don't believe it.
Speaker 1: Mike Tomlin in his press conference today said Haskins and
Speaker 1: Rudolf I put themselves in position to compete, while also saying,
Speaker 1: you know it would be really great is having an
Speaker 1: athletic quarterback, having a quarterback that move Mason Rudolf not
Speaker 1: exactly the first guy or Dwayne Haskins that springs to
Speaker 1: mind when you think athletic quarterback. Actually I have Mason.
Speaker 1: I have Ben Roethlisberg on the line right now. Hey Ben,
Speaker 1: what do you think about either Mason Rudolph or Dwayne
Speaker 1: Haskins as the QB one come week one? Very limited
Speaker 1: vocabulary from a big ben from what we know. All right,
Speaker 1: that's that. Before we close, Ricky had a good idea.
Speaker 1: It's been a while since we've checked in on the
Speaker 1: iTunes comments. Everybody, It's very important in this podcast game,
Speaker 1: UH for the shows to show growth and build UH
Speaker 1: juice within the industry. To bang those five stars on iTunes.
Speaker 1: Leave comments, it really does matter. It's weird the metrics game,
Speaker 1: uh in our podcast world, and it matters. So if
Speaker 1: you could do that, if you could do us a
Speaker 1: favor and leave a comment about the show, uh positive negative,
Speaker 1: We don't really care now, flood them. Flood them positive
Speaker 1: right now. If you've made it this far in the show,
Speaker 1: you better be positive. We need truthful, We need a
Speaker 1: few um positives. All right. Well that's that's foreboding, all right, Ricky,
Speaker 1: you uh, the boys here, we have not seen anything
Speaker 1: that on this side of things. With the comments. You're
Speaker 1: gonna pull some out and read to us. Go ahead,
Speaker 1: start with you want to start with a good one
Speaker 1: or bad one, guys, whatever Ricky wants. Alright, you're the captain.
Speaker 1: I pulled a bunch here. So this first one is
Speaker 1: love it five stars from cyclone seven to one listening
Speaker 1: to going to sleep favorite pod. Okay, a little bit
Speaker 1: of a backhanded company five stars. We don't. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can say what you want. We're like that a big
Speaker 1: throw pillow that you used, like to rest your aching
Speaker 1: hip at night. Absolutely like the pregnant you know, the
Speaker 1: pregnant woman's pillow where it's curved like a like a
Speaker 1: soft Yeah, I want one of those. I mean I
Speaker 1: was using pregnant woman. Yeah, I'm a pregnant woman right now. Okay.
Speaker 1: The show that made Me love football five stars Ethan
Speaker 1: Osborne Twine. I've listened to the show since the first
Speaker 1: episode when I was thirteen, and I'm still here for
Speaker 1: the heroes Miss West. Every listen, but still feel like
Speaker 1: the A t N crew are a part of my life.
Speaker 1: Might have to lock it up as the best football podcast. Nay,
Speaker 1: best podcast. Good comment, that's crazy. We've taken him from
Speaker 1: middle school into almost college graduation. I never thought. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's one of the great blessings that we're on
Speaker 1: one of those shows that people use to mark time
Speaker 1: and in the march of time and and a ceaseless
Speaker 1: march that will end with marking the ground. He's run
Speaker 1: it as a virgin, and that's probably not the case
Speaker 1: now well hopefully. Um this one goodbye one star from
Speaker 1: Mad King Slayer and the comment just says I've heard enough?
Speaker 1: Did that say, Mega King Slayer? This one true football
Speaker 1: nerds from hair Tie with a bunch of numbers. Five stars.
Speaker 1: Are they thirteen year old in their parents basements talking
Speaker 1: about football or are they grown men in a podcast
Speaker 1: studio importing football wisdom to the masses. Either way, they
Speaker 1: are fantastic. The knowledge these men hold for the game
Speaker 1: of football is only the second reason I listened to
Speaker 1: the show. The first is their chemistry. They're like the
Speaker 1: Beatles of football podcasts. Of course, web West's absence has
Speaker 1: felt but the way these three keep his legacy alive
Speaker 1: is powerful. Shout out to my girl Erica too, who
Speaker 1: is a pioneer for so many. You are the star
Speaker 1: that keeps this thing shining. A millennial female listener, Alright,
Speaker 1: I like that. The only probably with the we Gotta Go.
Speaker 1: But the only thing that the Beatles thing was always
Speaker 1: tricky because that means someone's Ringo. Yeah, and then it
Speaker 1: just gets a little Although I think the idea of
Speaker 1: chemistry over knowledge, though, is an apt to one knowledge
Speaker 1: maybe not like the first thing that you need from
Speaker 1: from some owners. And by the way, if you watch that,
Speaker 1: let it be documentary on Hulu. Like Ringo Sneaky the
Speaker 1: coolest beetle, So maybe it's all right, Mark, you can
Speaker 1: still I am not Ringo, first of all, suck it,
Speaker 1: but like he's still alive. I'll give him that all right,
Speaker 1: all right, we gotta go. Thank you everybody for listening.
Speaker 1: We'll be back on Thursday with a preview of all
Speaker 1: the games to come, uh in the Divisional Round pound
Speaker 1: for pound, the best round of football all season. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening, and remember heed the call.