1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:23,770 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Can anyone or anything be truly altruistic? Can incredible 2 00:00:23,770 --> 00:00:27,770 Speaker 1: acts of kindness cause more harm than good? And what's 3 00:00:27,810 --> 00:00:31,050 Speaker 1: the most effective way of doing good? I'm sure that 4 00:00:31,130 --> 00:00:34,930 Speaker 1: the best selling author Michael Lewis will have some interesting 5 00:00:35,050 --> 00:00:40,810 Speaker 1: thoughts because the world's most notorious effective altruist, Sam Banguin Freed, 6 00:00:41,290 --> 00:00:45,050 Speaker 1: is the subject of Michael's book Going Infinite. I'm going 7 00:00:45,090 --> 00:00:47,530 Speaker 1: to be talking to Michael about that relationship and his 8 00:00:47,650 --> 00:00:51,170 Speaker 1: latest book, Who Is Government. But I want your help 9 00:00:51,370 --> 00:00:55,930 Speaker 1: to explore the theme of altruism with Michael Lewis, So 10 00:00:56,090 --> 00:00:59,770 Speaker 1: please send all of your kindness related questions from Michael 11 00:00:59,850 --> 00:01:06,770 Speaker 1: Lewis to Tales at Pushkin dot fm. This episode is 12 00:01:06,850 --> 00:01:10,570 Speaker 1: based on the book The Woman Who's the Atom by 13 00:01:10,770 --> 00:01:23,970 Speaker 1: Marissa Moss. July thirteenth, nineteen thirty eight, Berlin, Lisamightner is terrified. 14 00:01:25,250 --> 00:01:28,090 Speaker 1: She's being driven to the railway station to get on 15 00:01:28,130 --> 00:01:32,330 Speaker 1: a slow stopping train to Neuveshance, a small town across 16 00:01:32,370 --> 00:01:36,410 Speaker 1: the border in the Netherlands. It's a desperate final throw 17 00:01:36,490 --> 00:01:42,090 Speaker 1: of the dice. Lisamightner is a scientist, and new restrictions 18 00:01:42,170 --> 00:01:47,610 Speaker 1: under the Nazi government forbid scientists from emigrating, so she 19 00:01:47,730 --> 00:01:53,330 Speaker 1: can't leave. But Lisamightner is also Jewish, meaning that she 20 00:01:53,450 --> 00:01:58,170 Speaker 1: has no rights at all if she stays. Against all 21 00:01:58,250 --> 00:02:01,770 Speaker 1: the odds, Miightner has carved out a career as a 22 00:02:01,810 --> 00:02:07,370 Speaker 1: respected physicist. It was hard, very hard, and she doesn't 23 00:02:07,370 --> 00:02:11,130 Speaker 1: want to give it up. A Jewish colleague, Albert Einstein, 24 00:02:11,370 --> 00:02:14,650 Speaker 1: was visiting the United States when Hitler came to power. 25 00:02:15,410 --> 00:02:19,290 Speaker 1: Now he has a job at Princeton. Other Jewish scientists, 26 00:02:19,650 --> 00:02:24,370 Speaker 1: less famous than Einstein have also left. Sometimes they found 27 00:02:24,410 --> 00:02:28,850 Speaker 1: good positions, sometimes they had to take whatever they could, 28 00:02:29,530 --> 00:02:33,010 Speaker 1: but they left. As a woman in a man's world, 29 00:02:33,450 --> 00:02:36,810 Speaker 1: Lisa Miitner didn't think she had any chance of getting 30 00:02:36,810 --> 00:02:41,490 Speaker 1: a job to match what she'd achieved in Berlin. A professorship, 31 00:02:41,850 --> 00:02:46,170 Speaker 1: a salary, a pension, and far more important than any 32 00:02:46,250 --> 00:02:50,650 Speaker 1: of that, a modern laboratory in which to do physics. 33 00:02:51,090 --> 00:02:56,450 Speaker 1: Nothing else really mattered, And so alone she had stayed 34 00:02:57,210 --> 00:03:03,730 Speaker 1: while things got worse and worse and worse. Her friends 35 00:03:03,730 --> 00:03:06,850 Speaker 1: have been worried about her. They've been begging her to 36 00:03:06,890 --> 00:03:12,330 Speaker 1: get out before it's too late. Reluctantly, Miightner has agreed. 37 00:03:13,170 --> 00:03:17,130 Speaker 1: She's decided to make a break for the border. But 38 00:03:17,250 --> 00:03:21,330 Speaker 1: maybe it is too late. The man driving her is 39 00:03:21,370 --> 00:03:26,330 Speaker 1: her friend, Paul Rossbard. He's a science editor. As they 40 00:03:26,370 --> 00:03:30,970 Speaker 1: approach the railway station, she starts to panic. The plan 41 00:03:31,090 --> 00:03:36,250 Speaker 1: is absurd. She's small and dark haired. She doesn't look arian. 42 00:03:36,490 --> 00:03:40,730 Speaker 1: She has no passport. The station and the train will 43 00:03:40,770 --> 00:03:45,410 Speaker 1: be crawling with guards. She begs Rossbard to turn back. 44 00:03:46,690 --> 00:03:51,330 Speaker 1: Rossbard keeps going. What Miightner doesn't realize is that he 45 00:03:51,410 --> 00:03:56,290 Speaker 1: leads a double life. He's a spy working with British intelligence. 46 00:03:56,970 --> 00:03:58,890 Speaker 1: He's not going to let one of the world's most 47 00:03:58,970 --> 00:04:04,650 Speaker 1: brilliant atomic physicists stay in Germany any longer, so he 48 00:04:04,850 --> 00:04:08,490 Speaker 1: soothes her. She's going to be fine. Nobody's going to 49 00:04:08,530 --> 00:04:12,490 Speaker 1: suspect anything. She has a small suitcase, it doesn't look 50 00:04:12,530 --> 00:04:15,810 Speaker 1: like she's taking a long trip, and she'll have company, 51 00:04:16,330 --> 00:04:20,730 Speaker 1: a Dutch physicist called Dirk Costa. He'll look after her. 52 00:04:21,650 --> 00:04:24,570 Speaker 1: She has more friends rooting for her than she realizes. 53 00:04:26,330 --> 00:04:30,970 Speaker 1: The station is framed by swastikas and packed with police patrols. 54 00:04:31,890 --> 00:04:37,690 Speaker 1: Costa is smiling, friendly waiting on the train. Everything's going 55 00:04:37,730 --> 00:04:41,610 Speaker 1: to be fine, he explains. As the little train chugs 56 00:04:41,690 --> 00:04:46,850 Speaker 1: past village after village, each one plastered with Nazi symbols. 57 00:04:47,610 --> 00:04:52,490 Speaker 1: The Dutch border officials are expecting us. Everything's arranged, and 58 00:04:53,090 --> 00:04:57,170 Speaker 1: if the ESSs stop us, she wonders. She knows many 59 00:04:57,210 --> 00:05:00,770 Speaker 1: people who've been arrested on trains and dragged back to Berlin. 60 00:05:02,210 --> 00:05:07,130 Speaker 1: Costa is nervous himself, but he pretends to be relaxed. 61 00:05:08,130 --> 00:05:12,610 Speaker 1: Why would the ESSs bother with them? And then at 62 00:05:12,610 --> 00:05:18,850 Speaker 1: the border the train stops. German border guards and ss 63 00:05:18,890 --> 00:05:22,970 Speaker 1: officers enter the compartment where Costa and Lisa Miightner are sitting. 64 00:05:23,930 --> 00:05:28,370 Speaker 1: She shrinks in her seat, acutely aware that she's Jewish. 65 00:05:28,930 --> 00:05:33,210 Speaker 1: She's expressly forbidden to leave the country, and she has 66 00:05:33,530 --> 00:05:37,930 Speaker 1: no passport. The SSS officer stands in front of them 67 00:05:38,370 --> 00:05:46,170 Speaker 1: and holds out his hand expectantly papers I'm Tim Harford 68 00:05:46,730 --> 00:06:16,090 Speaker 1: and you're listening to cautionary tales. Born in Vienna in 69 00:06:16,290 --> 00:06:21,210 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy eight, Lisa Mightner was an ordinary girl, or 70 00:06:21,450 --> 00:06:24,650 Speaker 1: so she felt. She just happened to be an ordinary 71 00:06:24,650 --> 00:06:28,810 Speaker 1: girl who slept with a math textbook under her pillow. 72 00:06:29,490 --> 00:06:33,570 Speaker 1: Marissa Moss's biography of Miightner describes a girl who was 73 00:06:33,730 --> 00:06:38,050 Speaker 1: full of questions. Why did oil on a puddle? Produce 74 00:06:38,130 --> 00:06:44,690 Speaker 1: that strange rainbow reflection. How could numbers describe curves carefully 75 00:06:44,770 --> 00:06:49,650 Speaker 1: drawn on a grid? She dreamed of university, just a 76 00:06:49,730 --> 00:06:52,210 Speaker 1: dream since she hadn't even been able to go to 77 00:06:52,290 --> 00:06:58,490 Speaker 1: high school and Austrian universities didn't admit women. Fortunately, the 78 00:06:58,570 --> 00:07:02,490 Speaker 1: law in Austria changed just in time for Lisa to 79 00:07:02,570 --> 00:07:07,610 Speaker 1: fulfill her dream. She sat the ferociously difficult high school 80 00:07:07,690 --> 00:07:11,690 Speaker 1: exit exam, test skills taught in classes she had never 81 00:07:11,730 --> 00:07:16,690 Speaker 1: been able to take. She passed, and in nineteen oh 82 00:07:16,690 --> 00:07:21,290 Speaker 1: one became the first woman at the University of Vienna 83 00:07:21,330 --> 00:07:28,250 Speaker 1: to study physics. It wasn't easy, small, cringingly shy, and 84 00:07:28,610 --> 00:07:33,770 Speaker 1: obviously resented by many of the professors, She nevertheless persevered 85 00:07:34,770 --> 00:07:40,010 Speaker 1: if she could do physics, all the everyday indignities were bearable. 86 00:07:41,250 --> 00:07:45,730 Speaker 1: In nineteen oh six, she earned a PhD in physics. 87 00:07:46,330 --> 00:07:49,810 Speaker 1: Nobody would offer an academic job to a woman, so 88 00:07:49,890 --> 00:07:54,650 Speaker 1: she built her own equipment at home and began studying radiation. 89 00:07:55,770 --> 00:07:59,610 Speaker 1: In nineteen oh seven, she published her first scientific paper, 90 00:08:00,490 --> 00:08:03,970 Speaker 1: and she decided that if her research was to advance, 91 00:08:04,730 --> 00:08:08,490 Speaker 1: she would need to move to Berlin, the world center 92 00:08:08,530 --> 00:08:14,090 Speaker 1: of physics at the time. That wasn't easy either. Again, 93 00:08:14,770 --> 00:08:18,490 Speaker 1: there were no job offers. The University of Berlin was 94 00:08:18,530 --> 00:08:23,730 Speaker 1: an entirely male environment, and Encyclopedia commissioned her to write 95 00:08:23,730 --> 00:08:28,610 Speaker 1: a piece about radioactivity before rescinding the offer when they 96 00:08:28,650 --> 00:08:33,890 Speaker 1: realized that this scholarly seeming el Miightner was nothing more 97 00:08:33,930 --> 00:08:38,370 Speaker 1: than a woman. But she made it work. She was 98 00:08:38,410 --> 00:08:43,410 Speaker 1: offered some space in the basement of Berlin's Experimental Physics Institute, 99 00:08:43,570 --> 00:08:47,010 Speaker 1: no salary, no toilets, should have to leave via the 100 00:08:47,170 --> 00:08:49,970 Speaker 1: side door and go to a hotel or restaurant down 101 00:08:50,010 --> 00:08:54,610 Speaker 1: the street, no access to the men's laboratories, but something 102 00:08:55,370 --> 00:08:58,130 Speaker 1: she scraped by on a small allowance from her father 103 00:08:58,810 --> 00:09:05,530 Speaker 1: and earning money for translating scientific articles. Then Lisa Meitner 104 00:09:06,010 --> 00:09:13,170 Speaker 1: met Otto Hahn and things started to change. Otto Hahn 105 00:09:13,530 --> 00:09:17,530 Speaker 1: wasn't a physicist like Miightner. He was a chemist, but 106 00:09:17,570 --> 00:09:20,970 Speaker 1: the new science of radiation was a place where physics 107 00:09:21,010 --> 00:09:28,610 Speaker 1: and chemistry met and worked in partnership. Hahn was easygoing 108 00:09:28,650 --> 00:09:33,610 Speaker 1: and sociable. Miightner was neither, but he was also ambitious 109 00:09:34,210 --> 00:09:38,130 Speaker 1: and meticulous, and he knew a good physicist when he 110 00:09:38,170 --> 00:09:42,210 Speaker 1: met one. Lisa Miightner was a good physicist, and the 111 00:09:42,250 --> 00:09:44,970 Speaker 1: fact that she was a woman didn't bother Otto Hahn. 112 00:09:45,890 --> 00:09:50,970 Speaker 1: Hahn and Mightner would work together as research partners for decades. 113 00:09:51,930 --> 00:09:57,290 Speaker 1: It was a close relationship, but also an unusual one. 114 00:09:57,610 --> 00:10:04,410 Speaker 1: Lisa Mightner was very reserved, very shy, Otto Hahn later recalled, 115 00:10:05,170 --> 00:10:07,650 Speaker 1: for many years, I never had a meal with her 116 00:10:08,250 --> 00:10:11,970 Speaker 1: except on a official occasions, nor did we ever go 117 00:10:12,090 --> 00:10:16,810 Speaker 1: for a walk together, and yet we were really very 118 00:10:16,850 --> 00:10:22,610 Speaker 1: close friends. Otto was perhaps Miightner's closest friend of all. 119 00:10:23,450 --> 00:10:27,610 Speaker 1: She didn't love small talk, but she felt comfortable with Otto, 120 00:10:28,290 --> 00:10:30,810 Speaker 1: and of course when she wanted to talk about science, 121 00:10:31,170 --> 00:10:38,410 Speaker 1: which was often, Hahn was perfect. I love physics with 122 00:10:38,530 --> 00:10:42,330 Speaker 1: all my heart, she once wrote. It's a kind of 123 00:10:42,890 --> 00:10:46,730 Speaker 1: personal love, as one had for a person to whom 124 00:10:46,770 --> 00:10:52,810 Speaker 1: one is grateful for many things. Hahn was an expert chemist, 125 00:10:53,290 --> 00:10:56,490 Speaker 1: but he needed Miightner to interpret the results of his 126 00:10:56,610 --> 00:11:00,650 Speaker 1: experiments to understand what they were revealing about the nature 127 00:11:00,690 --> 00:11:03,330 Speaker 1: of the atom and the particles that made it up. 128 00:11:04,610 --> 00:11:08,770 Speaker 1: Over the first six years of their research partnership, Hahn 129 00:11:09,130 --> 00:11:13,490 Speaker 1: and Miightner published more than twenty scientific papers. He ran 130 00:11:13,530 --> 00:11:18,130 Speaker 1: the experiments, she interpreted the physics underpinning the results and 131 00:11:18,250 --> 00:11:22,850 Speaker 1: wrote them up. When a new research center, the Kaiser 132 00:11:22,930 --> 00:11:28,370 Speaker 1: Wilhelm Institute, was established, both Hahn and Miightner were given 133 00:11:28,490 --> 00:11:33,130 Speaker 1: modern laboratories on the basis of their work together. The 134 00:11:33,170 --> 00:11:36,330 Speaker 1: rest of the scientific world was beginning to admire the 135 00:11:36,410 --> 00:11:41,010 Speaker 1: work of el Meightner. The most assumed, of course, that 136 00:11:41,530 --> 00:11:46,570 Speaker 1: l Meitner was a man. But in Berlin, her colleagues 137 00:11:46,610 --> 00:11:51,930 Speaker 1: at the KWI, including Albert Einstein himself, were starting to 138 00:11:51,970 --> 00:11:54,970 Speaker 1: treat her neither as a man nor as a woman. 139 00:11:55,370 --> 00:11:58,570 Speaker 1: But how she wanted to be treated as a scientist. 140 00:12:01,850 --> 00:12:07,530 Speaker 1: And then came nineteen fourteen and the war. Lisa volunteered 141 00:12:07,530 --> 00:12:11,410 Speaker 1: as an X ray specialist on the Eastern Front, using 142 00:12:11,610 --> 00:12:17,210 Speaker 1: scientific discoveries to help people heal. Otto Hahn went to 143 00:12:17,290 --> 00:12:22,650 Speaker 1: work with the great chemist Fritz Harbor making chemical weapons. 144 00:12:23,490 --> 00:12:27,650 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighteen, Fritz Harbor was wanted by the Allies 145 00:12:27,730 --> 00:12:32,530 Speaker 1: for war crimes and was also awarded the Nobel Prize 146 00:12:32,570 --> 00:12:41,490 Speaker 1: for chemistry. Such were the contradictions of modern science. After 147 00:12:41,530 --> 00:12:45,890 Speaker 1: the war, at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute, Meitner conducted and 148 00:12:46,050 --> 00:12:52,450 Speaker 1: analyzed experiments that revealed a new element, protactinium. She'd discussed 149 00:12:52,490 --> 00:12:56,610 Speaker 1: her work intensively with Hahn and so put his name 150 00:12:56,690 --> 00:13:01,010 Speaker 1: alongside hers on the scientific paper she wrote. Hahn was 151 00:13:01,090 --> 00:13:05,730 Speaker 1: promptly awarded the prestigious Emil Fisher Medal for the discovery 152 00:13:05,810 --> 00:13:12,090 Speaker 1: of Protactinium Meiitner's contribute was acknowledged with the replica of 153 00:13:12,250 --> 00:13:18,690 Speaker 1: Hahn's medal. But despite the ongoing misogyny and the difficulties 154 00:13:18,690 --> 00:13:22,730 Speaker 1: of life in Germany after the First World War, Lisamightner 155 00:13:23,050 --> 00:13:26,890 Speaker 1: was flourishing. She built the first cloud chamber in Germany, 156 00:13:27,170 --> 00:13:31,650 Speaker 1: a vital piece of scientific equipment for investigating tiny particles. 157 00:13:32,170 --> 00:13:36,450 Speaker 1: She published a string of papers without Hahn's involvement, and 158 00:13:37,050 --> 00:13:41,690 Speaker 1: finally she was given a full professorship, the first woman 159 00:13:41,810 --> 00:13:46,450 Speaker 1: in Germany ever to hold the position. Hahn was making 160 00:13:46,490 --> 00:13:50,210 Speaker 1: three times more money than her, but progress was progress. 161 00:13:51,530 --> 00:13:55,450 Speaker 1: Lisa Miightner and Otto Hahn were nominated for the Nobel 162 00:13:55,610 --> 00:14:00,170 Speaker 1: Prize in Chemistry in nineteen twenty four, nineteen twenty five, 163 00:14:00,890 --> 00:14:06,530 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty nine and nineteen thirty three. Surely the prize 164 00:14:06,570 --> 00:14:10,570 Speaker 1: was just a matter of time, but something else happened. 165 00:14:10,610 --> 00:14:16,610 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty three, Adolf Hitler became the Chancellor of Germany. 166 00:14:18,170 --> 00:14:29,970 Speaker 1: Cautionary tales will be back after the break. Fritz Harbour's 167 00:14:30,050 --> 00:14:35,050 Speaker 1: fate should have been a warning. In nineteen thirty three, 168 00:14:35,090 --> 00:14:39,730 Speaker 1: he was the head of their institute, the KWI. Harbor 169 00:14:39,930 --> 00:14:44,130 Speaker 1: was a scientific hero, the creator of the chemical process 170 00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:49,410 Speaker 1: that even today gives the world access to fertilizer, one 171 00:14:49,450 --> 00:14:53,970 Speaker 1: of the single greatest contributions any scientist has made to 172 00:14:54,130 --> 00:14:58,130 Speaker 1: human well being. He was also a war hero in 173 00:14:58,170 --> 00:15:02,690 Speaker 1: Germany thanks to his work on chemical weapons, and he 174 00:15:02,770 --> 00:15:07,850 Speaker 1: was also a Jew. Harbor was ordered to fire every 175 00:15:08,010 --> 00:15:15,010 Speaker 1: Jewish scientist in the KWI. He refused and resigned. Good riddance, 176 00:15:15,490 --> 00:15:18,650 Speaker 1: said the Nazi Minister for Education. He might have been 177 00:15:18,690 --> 00:15:23,050 Speaker 1: a competent scientist, but he had stocked the KWI with 178 00:15:23,290 --> 00:15:28,890 Speaker 1: Jewish scientists. Harbor's successor as the head of the KWI 179 00:15:29,170 --> 00:15:33,730 Speaker 1: was Max Planck. Plank was influential enough to arrange a 180 00:15:33,810 --> 00:15:39,250 Speaker 1: meeting with Adolph Hitler himself. Surely, said Plank, it wasn't 181 00:15:39,290 --> 00:15:44,730 Speaker 1: necessary to purge patriots such as Harbor. He was deeply German. 182 00:15:45,930 --> 00:15:50,250 Speaker 1: Hitler flew into a rage. There are no good Jews, 183 00:15:50,650 --> 00:15:55,610 Speaker 1: he shouted, there is no Jewish worthiness. As Plank tried 184 00:15:55,610 --> 00:16:01,290 Speaker 1: to apologize, Hitler became even more agitated, Plank made a 185 00:16:01,330 --> 00:16:07,810 Speaker 1: hasty exit. Harber died of a heart attack shortly afterwards, 186 00:16:08,130 --> 00:16:12,450 Speaker 1: and his former colleagues at the KWI waited in vain 187 00:16:12,650 --> 00:16:18,210 Speaker 1: for the official commemoration of this great scientific hero. Nothing. 188 00:16:19,410 --> 00:16:23,570 Speaker 1: Plank decided that the KWI would hold a memorial. The 189 00:16:23,610 --> 00:16:28,930 Speaker 1: authorities promptly announced that university faculty were forbidden to take 190 00:16:29,050 --> 00:16:32,890 Speaker 1: part in the memorial ceremony for the Jew Fritz Harbor. 191 00:16:34,170 --> 00:16:39,890 Speaker 1: Max Planck insisted that the ceremony should go ahead. When Planck, Miitner, 192 00:16:40,090 --> 00:16:43,570 Speaker 1: and Hahn arrived at the venue, there were plenty of 193 00:16:43,730 --> 00:16:48,730 Speaker 1: Nazi soldiers observing the proceedings, but the hall was packed. 194 00:16:49,690 --> 00:16:53,610 Speaker 1: Most professors had bowed to the pressure and stayed away, 195 00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:58,410 Speaker 1: but they'd sent their wives as representatives. It was a 196 00:16:58,450 --> 00:17:04,610 Speaker 1: touching moment, but it was also ominous. If Fritz Harbor 197 00:17:04,730 --> 00:17:09,410 Speaker 1: couldn't be protected, nobody could. And the presence of all 198 00:17:09,450 --> 00:17:14,930 Speaker 1: those scientists' wives showed that while many people had sympathy 199 00:17:15,010 --> 00:17:18,010 Speaker 1: for the way Jews were being treated, there was a 200 00:17:18,050 --> 00:17:21,370 Speaker 1: limit to how much defiance they were really willing to 201 00:17:21,490 --> 00:17:29,610 Speaker 1: show when the Nazis came to power. Jews were one 202 00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:34,250 Speaker 1: percent of the German population, but twenty percent of scientists 203 00:17:34,290 --> 00:17:37,290 Speaker 1: were Jewish. You might think that this would make them 204 00:17:37,330 --> 00:17:41,050 Speaker 1: a national asset, but not a bit of it. The 205 00:17:41,170 --> 00:17:44,370 Speaker 1: Nazi complained was that the Jews had taken over and 206 00:17:44,770 --> 00:17:50,290 Speaker 1: filled the universities with their unscientific Jewish dogmas, and some 207 00:17:50,570 --> 00:17:55,970 Speaker 1: leading German scientists were happy enough to amplify this message. 208 00:17:56,010 --> 00:17:59,730 Speaker 1: The most prominent example of the damaging influence of the 209 00:17:59,890 --> 00:18:05,610 Speaker 1: Jews on science, wrote one Nobel laureate physicist, is provided 210 00:18:05,650 --> 00:18:13,410 Speaker 1: by mister Einstein with his theories. Every Jewish scientist who 211 00:18:13,530 --> 00:18:19,090 Speaker 1: could left, from mister Einstein himself, all the way down 212 00:18:19,250 --> 00:18:27,610 Speaker 1: the academic pecking order, everyone left except Lisamightner. What she'd 213 00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:31,490 Speaker 1: built up at the KWI was so essential to her 214 00:18:32,050 --> 00:18:35,890 Speaker 1: she couldn't bear to leave it. There were only so 215 00:18:36,050 --> 00:18:40,490 Speaker 1: many jobs that universities outside Germany could find for these 216 00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:45,690 Speaker 1: refugee scientists, and a woman such as Miightner would never 217 00:18:45,770 --> 00:18:50,090 Speaker 1: be a priority. If she didn't have a lab, if 218 00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:53,930 Speaker 1: she couldn't practice physics, what was the point of leaving 219 00:18:54,890 --> 00:19:00,770 Speaker 1: before long? Lisamightner was the last Jewish scientist in Berlin. 220 00:19:03,050 --> 00:19:06,690 Speaker 1: If she'd hoped that her colleagues would protect her, she'd 221 00:19:06,730 --> 00:19:11,810 Speaker 1: be disappointed. Max Plank tried, but hadn't been able to 222 00:19:11,810 --> 00:19:17,010 Speaker 1: protect Fritz Harbor. He certainly couldn't protect her. Miightner was 223 00:19:17,130 --> 00:19:21,130 Speaker 1: banned from teaching and stripped of her title and salary, 224 00:19:21,730 --> 00:19:27,290 Speaker 1: but she still had her lab. Even so, colleagues started 225 00:19:27,330 --> 00:19:31,330 Speaker 1: to worry that having a duess in the institute was 226 00:19:31,370 --> 00:19:36,370 Speaker 1: a bad look. When Miightner asked Otto Hahn to speak 227 00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:42,370 Speaker 1: up on her behalf, he refused. He had his own concerns. 228 00:19:43,450 --> 00:19:48,330 Speaker 1: He later recalled that the presence of l Mightner did 229 00:19:48,330 --> 00:19:52,570 Speaker 1: not make the situation better. Thus, at the yearly meetings 230 00:19:52,610 --> 00:19:56,210 Speaker 1: of the KWI, I was already seated in a less 231 00:19:56,450 --> 00:19:59,970 Speaker 1: prestigious place at the dinner table than was appropriate for 232 00:20:00,090 --> 00:20:08,170 Speaker 1: my position. These were, he said, painful experiences. Hahn and 233 00:20:08,330 --> 00:20:12,370 Speaker 1: Mightner had worked closely together for a quarter of a century, 234 00:20:13,050 --> 00:20:17,210 Speaker 1: but now that no longer suited him, He ended his 235 00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:22,650 Speaker 1: research partnership with Lisa Miightner. Officially, that is, unofficially, he 236 00:20:22,730 --> 00:20:25,530 Speaker 1: was always coming to her for help in understanding the 237 00:20:25,570 --> 00:20:31,890 Speaker 1: physics behind his chemistry experiments. Not every scientist was so complicit. 238 00:20:32,690 --> 00:20:37,610 Speaker 1: Hahn's new young assistant, Fritz Strassmann, had already been sacked 239 00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:41,850 Speaker 1: for protesting the Nazi takeover of the German Chemical Association. 240 00:20:42,770 --> 00:20:46,810 Speaker 1: When Hahn hired him, Strassman again refused to join the 241 00:20:46,890 --> 00:20:50,570 Speaker 1: Nazi party and lost three quarters of his salary as 242 00:20:50,570 --> 00:20:54,690 Speaker 1: a result. It was Miitner who urged Hahn to divert 243 00:20:54,810 --> 00:20:59,650 Speaker 1: research funds to help Strassman support his young family. Indeed, 244 00:21:00,090 --> 00:21:04,450 Speaker 1: Strassman was braver than she knew. For a time, his 245 00:21:04,650 --> 00:21:07,970 Speaker 1: little apartment concealed a Jewish woman on the run from 246 00:21:08,010 --> 00:21:13,490 Speaker 1: the Gestapo. Most of Meitner's colleagues didn't have anything like 247 00:21:13,650 --> 00:21:19,490 Speaker 1: that kind of courage. One Jewish physicist, Leo Zillard recalled 248 00:21:19,570 --> 00:21:24,770 Speaker 1: how the complicity played out. They ask, well, supposing I 249 00:21:24,810 --> 00:21:27,770 Speaker 1: would oppose this, thinking what good would I do? I 250 00:21:27,770 --> 00:21:31,290 Speaker 1: would just lose my influence, Then why should I oppose it? 251 00:21:32,490 --> 00:21:36,570 Speaker 1: But otto Hahn didn't just fail to oppose the Nazi rules. 252 00:21:37,290 --> 00:21:42,490 Speaker 1: He was anxious to comply. Behind Lisa Miightner's back, he 253 00:21:42,570 --> 00:21:45,970 Speaker 1: lobbed to have her dismissed so as to end the 254 00:21:46,050 --> 00:21:52,170 Speaker 1: institute's distracting Jewish problem. So much for we were really 255 00:21:52,290 --> 00:21:57,930 Speaker 1: very close friends. Having lost her salary and her title, 256 00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:03,170 Speaker 1: she next lost her academic apartment. She moved into a hotel, 257 00:22:03,730 --> 00:22:06,810 Speaker 1: living off her savings and continuing to go into the lab. 258 00:22:08,050 --> 00:22:11,410 Speaker 1: But by nineteen thirty eight it was obvious to Lisa 259 00:22:11,490 --> 00:22:16,650 Speaker 1: Mightner's friends that she was in terrible danger. The kW 260 00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:20,650 Speaker 1: I tried to arrange a passport for her, without success. 261 00:22:21,450 --> 00:22:25,530 Speaker 1: The authorities refused to let her go, explaining that it 262 00:22:25,650 --> 00:22:31,170 Speaker 1: was undesirable to let renowned Jews leave Germany for abroad 263 00:22:31,690 --> 00:22:37,090 Speaker 1: to act there against the interests of Germany. An international 264 00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:41,090 Speaker 1: network of scientists desperately searched for a way to get 265 00:22:41,170 --> 00:22:45,850 Speaker 1: Lisa out of Germany, and with equal desperation, tried to 266 00:22:45,890 --> 00:22:51,250 Speaker 1: persuade her to go. The decisive moment when she tried 267 00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:55,850 Speaker 1: to visit her own laboratory and her old friend and colleague, 268 00:22:55,930 --> 00:23:02,850 Speaker 1: Otto Hahn confronted her and insisted that she leave. He has, 269 00:23:03,090 --> 00:23:07,330 Speaker 1: in essence thrown me out, she wrote in her diary, 270 00:23:08,530 --> 00:23:11,850 Speaker 1: and she sadly agreed to the plan to smuggle her 271 00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:17,810 Speaker 1: out of Germany. Otto Hahn did find a bit of 272 00:23:17,890 --> 00:23:21,410 Speaker 1: courage in the end. He invited Lisa to stay at 273 00:23:21,410 --> 00:23:24,850 Speaker 1: his house the night before she left, helping with her 274 00:23:24,890 --> 00:23:28,850 Speaker 1: cover story. As they said their goodbyes and agreed to 275 00:23:28,930 --> 00:23:33,610 Speaker 1: work together by writing letters, Otto pressed his mother's diamond 276 00:23:33,690 --> 00:23:38,570 Speaker 1: ring into Lisa's hand. Maybe it would be useful in 277 00:23:38,610 --> 00:23:43,650 Speaker 1: an emergency, he stiffly explained, she could sell it or something. 278 00:23:44,850 --> 00:23:49,690 Speaker 1: Lisa was touched and then into the car with Paul 279 00:23:49,770 --> 00:23:53,250 Speaker 1: Rossbard and to the station. Might Know in a panic, 280 00:23:53,770 --> 00:23:57,370 Speaker 1: and Rossbard trying to soothe her and sitting next to 281 00:23:57,450 --> 00:24:00,130 Speaker 1: Dirk Costa on the seven hour train journey to the 282 00:24:00,210 --> 00:24:04,490 Speaker 1: Netherlands as he smoothly reassured her that nobody was going 283 00:24:04,530 --> 00:24:08,930 Speaker 1: to ask for her papers until the train stopped at 284 00:24:08,930 --> 00:24:12,330 Speaker 1: the border crossing, and standing there in front of them 285 00:24:12,610 --> 00:24:18,970 Speaker 1: was the SS officer and outstretched demanding to see a passport. 286 00:24:20,130 --> 00:24:25,130 Speaker 1: Lisa Mightner clutched the ring tightly, as though somehow it 287 00:24:25,250 --> 00:24:31,650 Speaker 1: might save her. She knew it couldn't. Derk Costa, seeming calm, 288 00:24:32,050 --> 00:24:37,650 Speaker 1: reached into his suit pocket and pulled out his passport. 289 00:24:37,690 --> 00:24:44,410 Speaker 1: The SS guard inspected it, nodded, then walked on down 290 00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:51,410 Speaker 1: the train corridor. The husband's papers were in order, Why 291 00:24:51,530 --> 00:25:00,090 Speaker 1: bother to check the wife's. For decades, over and over again, 292 00:25:00,570 --> 00:25:04,490 Speaker 1: Lisa Mightner had been ignored with the attention being given 293 00:25:04,610 --> 00:25:08,570 Speaker 1: to whichever man happened to be in the vicinity. It 294 00:25:08,730 --> 00:25:16,210 Speaker 1: had happened again, and this time it had saved her life. Caution, 295 00:25:16,330 --> 00:25:33,890 Speaker 1: retales will be back. After the break, the trains started 296 00:25:33,930 --> 00:25:38,290 Speaker 1: moving again, crossing the border into the Netherlands. No more 297 00:25:38,490 --> 00:25:44,450 Speaker 1: swastikas or soldiers. They were free. Over the days that followed, 298 00:25:44,930 --> 00:25:49,090 Speaker 1: words spread among her friends and the scientific community more widely, 299 00:25:50,090 --> 00:25:55,850 Speaker 1: Lisa Miightner was safe. One scientist sent a telegram to 300 00:25:55,930 --> 00:26:00,210 Speaker 1: Dirk Costa, you have made yourself as famous for the 301 00:26:00,370 --> 00:26:06,690 Speaker 1: production of Lisamightner as for discovering hafnium. Back in Berlin, 302 00:26:07,410 --> 00:26:12,050 Speaker 1: Hahn and his Nazi DeFi buying assistant Strassmann were puzzled. 303 00:26:13,050 --> 00:26:15,970 Speaker 1: In Berlin, they were continuing work that Hahn had been 304 00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:20,930 Speaker 1: doing with Miightner, firing neutrons at uranium, the heaviest known 305 00:26:21,290 --> 00:26:25,410 Speaker 1: naturally occurring element. They hoped to create a new element 306 00:26:25,730 --> 00:26:31,010 Speaker 1: like protactinium, which Miightner had discovered years earlier. But instead 307 00:26:31,050 --> 00:26:35,170 Speaker 1: of discovering new heavy elements as a result of the experiment, 308 00:26:35,850 --> 00:26:40,050 Speaker 1: Hahn was finding something that behaved like barium, a much 309 00:26:40,130 --> 00:26:45,610 Speaker 1: lighter element that just seemed impossible. It was as though 310 00:26:45,930 --> 00:26:50,090 Speaker 1: Newton's apple didn't fall from the tree but floated off 311 00:26:50,090 --> 00:26:56,250 Speaker 1: into space. Was Hahn just making a mistake doing sloppy chemistry. 312 00:26:57,050 --> 00:27:01,250 Speaker 1: He wrote to his old collaborator, Lisa Miightner to ask 313 00:27:01,330 --> 00:27:07,490 Speaker 1: for her help. Miightner was safely in Stockholm, where she'd 314 00:27:07,530 --> 00:27:11,090 Speaker 1: secured a position as a dune. You're a searcher. All 315 00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:15,930 Speaker 1: her old equipment, the best neutron sources, the best detectors, 316 00:27:16,610 --> 00:27:20,210 Speaker 1: was all sitting untouched in her lab since the day 317 00:27:20,290 --> 00:27:23,810 Speaker 1: she had fled Berlin. But even if she couldn't get 318 00:27:23,850 --> 00:27:27,650 Speaker 1: to it, she could at least explain to Hahn how 319 00:27:27,690 --> 00:27:32,730 Speaker 1: to use it with her guidance. He tried again, but 320 00:27:32,810 --> 00:27:38,770 Speaker 1: he was still baffled, and Miightner was puzzled too. While 321 00:27:38,890 --> 00:27:42,850 Speaker 1: Hahn was writing up his results for publication, including an 322 00:27:42,850 --> 00:27:46,410 Speaker 1: admission that frankly, he didn't understand what was going on, 323 00:27:47,490 --> 00:27:50,690 Speaker 1: Lisa Miightner went for a long walk with her nephew, 324 00:27:51,010 --> 00:27:55,490 Speaker 1: another physicist. It was Christmas eve and they were staying 325 00:27:55,570 --> 00:27:59,890 Speaker 1: in the Swedish countryside for a few days. Lisa walked 326 00:28:00,130 --> 00:28:04,970 Speaker 1: and talked her nephew, skiing alongside as they bounced around 327 00:28:05,010 --> 00:28:09,250 Speaker 1: the problem. Maybe Hahn was just making a mistake the 328 00:28:09,250 --> 00:28:15,530 Speaker 1: setup of his experiment, he suggested, No, she replied, he 329 00:28:15,570 --> 00:28:20,450 Speaker 1: had the best equipment my equipment, and Otto Hahn does 330 00:28:20,530 --> 00:28:26,730 Speaker 1: not make mistakes, not in the laboratory anyway. And then 331 00:28:27,730 --> 00:28:31,890 Speaker 1: suddenly it came to her. She sat down on a 332 00:28:31,970 --> 00:28:35,410 Speaker 1: snow covered log, pulled out a notebook, and started to 333 00:28:35,490 --> 00:28:42,210 Speaker 1: run through some calculations. What if Hahn really had created barium. 334 00:28:42,570 --> 00:28:46,890 Speaker 1: Barium was about half the atomic weight of uranium, it 335 00:28:46,930 --> 00:28:53,690 Speaker 1: would mean the atom had just split in two. Everyone 336 00:28:53,730 --> 00:28:58,770 Speaker 1: assumed that couldn't happen. In his book E Equals MC Squared, 337 00:28:59,370 --> 00:29:02,970 Speaker 1: David Badanis describes it as like throwing a pebble at 338 00:29:02,970 --> 00:29:06,170 Speaker 1: a boulder, only for the boulder to crack in half. 339 00:29:07,290 --> 00:29:11,530 Speaker 1: But Mitna realized that the urineum nucleus wasn't like a boulder. 340 00:29:12,290 --> 00:29:16,250 Speaker 1: There were powerful forces holding it together, but there were 341 00:29:16,290 --> 00:29:20,130 Speaker 1: also powerful forces inside it trying to push it apart. 342 00:29:21,250 --> 00:29:24,810 Speaker 1: When she did the calculations, she understood a stream of 343 00:29:24,890 --> 00:29:29,330 Speaker 1: neutrons could start to wobble it, and once it was wobbling, 344 00:29:29,650 --> 00:29:33,250 Speaker 1: a single neutron that hit at the right moment would 345 00:29:33,290 --> 00:29:40,010 Speaker 1: split the atom, but split it into what Ottohhn had 346 00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:44,770 Speaker 1: found barium. Mitna realized that if the uranium atom was 347 00:29:44,930 --> 00:29:48,850 Speaker 1: literally splitting in two, and one part was barium, the 348 00:29:48,930 --> 00:29:53,210 Speaker 1: other part would be krypton. The total number of protons 349 00:29:53,250 --> 00:29:56,050 Speaker 1: in a barium atom and a krypton atom are the 350 00:29:56,090 --> 00:29:59,210 Speaker 1: same as the protons in an uranium atom, so that 351 00:29:59,370 --> 00:30:04,170 Speaker 1: added up, and krypton was an invisible gas. You couldn't 352 00:30:04,210 --> 00:30:07,410 Speaker 1: see it, you couldn't smell it, and so of course 353 00:30:07,770 --> 00:30:13,050 Speaker 1: Hahn hadn't realized it was even there. Miightner realized two 354 00:30:13,170 --> 00:30:18,690 Speaker 1: more things linked together. First, barium and krypton together have 355 00:30:18,770 --> 00:30:22,330 Speaker 1: the same number of protons as uranium, but their total 356 00:30:22,450 --> 00:30:28,490 Speaker 1: mass is less. Where had the extra mass gone? Second, 357 00:30:29,290 --> 00:30:33,050 Speaker 1: once the uranium had split into barium and krypton, those 358 00:30:33,130 --> 00:30:37,410 Speaker 1: two new atoms would fly apart, repulsed by powerful forces. 359 00:30:38,370 --> 00:30:42,890 Speaker 1: Where did the energy for that come from? Mass had 360 00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:49,730 Speaker 1: mysteriously disappeared. Energy had mysteriously appeared. But her old colleague 361 00:30:49,730 --> 00:30:54,690 Speaker 1: Einstein had a formula for that E equals mc squared. 362 00:30:55,650 --> 00:30:58,970 Speaker 1: A little bit of mass could turn into a vast 363 00:30:59,130 --> 00:31:05,490 Speaker 1: release of energy. Miightner realized that otto Hahn had split 364 00:31:05,610 --> 00:31:10,970 Speaker 1: the atom and unlocked atomic energy without realizing what he 365 00:31:10,970 --> 00:31:20,210 Speaker 1: had done. Einstein later wrote, I believed only that it 366 00:31:20,250 --> 00:31:24,770 Speaker 1: was theoretically possible. It was discovered by Hahn in Berlin 367 00:31:25,210 --> 00:31:29,650 Speaker 1: and he himself misinterpreted what he discovered. It was Lisa 368 00:31:29,730 --> 00:31:34,530 Speaker 1: Meiitner who provided the correct interpretation. It was the biggest 369 00:31:34,570 --> 00:31:40,370 Speaker 1: discovery in physics since Einstein's theory of relativity. But while 370 00:31:40,530 --> 00:31:44,330 Speaker 1: scientists initially gave the credit to Miiitner and her nephew, 371 00:31:45,130 --> 00:31:50,170 Speaker 1: journalists increasingly tended to mention Hahn. She wrote to Hahn 372 00:31:50,730 --> 00:31:54,210 Speaker 1: begging him to be honest about the credit. I don't 373 00:31:54,210 --> 00:31:58,050 Speaker 1: feel at all happy, she wrote, adding that her new 374 00:31:58,130 --> 00:32:03,530 Speaker 1: colleagues in Stockholm will soon believe, especially after your excellent results, 375 00:32:03,610 --> 00:32:06,530 Speaker 1: that I didn't do anything, and that you both did 376 00:32:06,650 --> 00:32:12,170 Speaker 1: all the physics too. At Berlin, alongside the tussle for credit, 377 00:32:12,850 --> 00:32:18,330 Speaker 1: a much bigger struggle was developing. Meiightner's analysis had been comprehensive, 378 00:32:19,010 --> 00:32:22,690 Speaker 1: but there was one thing she had missed. When a 379 00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:28,290 Speaker 1: neutron split an atom, other neutrons might be emitted. Over 380 00:32:28,370 --> 00:32:33,490 Speaker 1: in the United States. Meiightner's old colleague Leo Zillard realized 381 00:32:33,530 --> 00:32:38,410 Speaker 1: that those neutrons could go on to split more nearby atoms. 382 00:32:39,370 --> 00:32:44,050 Speaker 1: The result would be a chain reaction and a colossal 383 00:32:44,170 --> 00:32:50,130 Speaker 1: release of energy, a source of power perhaps or the 384 00:32:50,130 --> 00:33:00,450 Speaker 1: deadliest weapon in history. Zillard alerted Einstein, Einstein alerted President Roosevelt. Secretly, 385 00:33:00,890 --> 00:33:05,410 Speaker 1: work started on the atomic bomb. But would Lisa Maiitner 386 00:33:05,490 --> 00:33:13,130 Speaker 1: join the effort. Absolutely Not like Einstein, and unlike almost 387 00:33:13,170 --> 00:33:17,330 Speaker 1: all of her other peers, she refused to be complicit 388 00:33:17,650 --> 00:33:26,970 Speaker 1: in creating such a deadly weapon. After Germany surrendered, Liza 389 00:33:27,250 --> 00:33:30,810 Speaker 1: wrote to Otto about the behavior of the scientists who 390 00:33:30,810 --> 00:33:35,450 Speaker 1: had stayed in Germany. All of you worked for Nazi 391 00:33:35,490 --> 00:33:41,650 Speaker 1: Germany and never attempted passive resistance. Of course, to save 392 00:33:41,810 --> 00:33:48,650 Speaker 1: your troubled consciences, you occasionally helped an oppressed person. Still, 393 00:33:48,810 --> 00:33:52,890 Speaker 1: you let millions of innocent people be murdered, and there 394 00:33:52,930 --> 00:33:58,170 Speaker 1: was never a sound of protest. She urged him and 395 00:33:58,250 --> 00:34:04,690 Speaker 1: his colleagues to make a statement acknowledging their culpability. Hahn 396 00:34:05,330 --> 00:34:13,410 Speaker 1: never did, and indeed received the letter. By then, he 397 00:34:13,650 --> 00:34:19,370 Speaker 1: and other leading German scientists were being comfortably detained by 398 00:34:19,370 --> 00:34:25,090 Speaker 1: the British. Both Liza and Otto were pondering life after 399 00:34:25,170 --> 00:34:34,410 Speaker 1: the war, but the war wasn't over. The sudden chain 400 00:34:34,570 --> 00:34:39,690 Speaker 1: reaction in an atomic explosion produces temperatures hotter than the 401 00:34:39,730 --> 00:34:45,610 Speaker 1: center of the sun. One of those artificial suns appeared 402 00:34:45,650 --> 00:34:50,690 Speaker 1: in the sky nineteen hundred feet above the city of Hiroshima. 403 00:34:51,810 --> 00:34:56,290 Speaker 1: The full burning blast lasted about half a second, and 404 00:34:56,370 --> 00:35:01,610 Speaker 1: as it started to fade, the incredible heat radiated out 405 00:35:02,290 --> 00:35:06,970 Speaker 1: nineteen hundred feet below. Fires started, apparently for no reason. 406 00:35:07,850 --> 00:35:12,930 Speaker 1: Skin was ripped off, hanging in sheets from people's flesh. 407 00:35:13,330 --> 00:35:23,610 Speaker 1: A moment later, a shockwave incredible ferocity flattened Hiroshima. When 408 00:35:23,610 --> 00:35:28,810 Speaker 1: the news reached Lisa Mightno in Stockholm, she was utterly appalled. 409 00:35:29,810 --> 00:35:34,730 Speaker 1: Imagine her horror when the American press named her the 410 00:35:34,850 --> 00:35:41,410 Speaker 1: mother of the atomic bomb. Otto Hahn received a different honor. 411 00:35:42,290 --> 00:35:49,410 Speaker 1: The Swedish Academy awarded him the Nobel Prize for chemistry. Somehow, 412 00:35:49,570 --> 00:35:52,050 Speaker 1: the shy little lady got the credit when it came 413 00:35:52,170 --> 00:35:56,690 Speaker 1: to mass slaughter, but the charming gentleman was at the 414 00:35:56,730 --> 00:35:59,610 Speaker 1: front of the queue when it was Nobel Prize time. 415 00:36:02,570 --> 00:36:06,010 Speaker 1: In nineteen o three, the Swedish Academy had tried to 416 00:36:06,090 --> 00:36:09,810 Speaker 1: award the Nobel Prize in Physics to honor re Becquerel 417 00:36:10,330 --> 00:36:14,650 Speaker 1: and Pierre Curie, but someone tipped off Pierre and he 418 00:36:14,730 --> 00:36:20,010 Speaker 1: complained that his wife Mary Curi was equally deserving. In 419 00:36:20,050 --> 00:36:23,850 Speaker 1: the end, Mary got her share of the prize, but 420 00:36:23,970 --> 00:36:27,330 Speaker 1: Mary Curie had a loyal husband to advocate for her. 421 00:36:28,170 --> 00:36:34,410 Speaker 1: Lisa Miitner only had Otto Hahn. It was understandable that 422 00:36:34,450 --> 00:36:38,450 Speaker 1: when Hahn was in Berlin working under the Nazi regime, 423 00:36:39,050 --> 00:36:43,290 Speaker 1: he would hesitate to credit the dwess who had eluded 424 00:36:43,330 --> 00:36:47,810 Speaker 1: the SS. After the war, some of his colleagues still 425 00:36:47,930 --> 00:36:52,690 Speaker 1: pressed him to downplay Mitner's achievement. But Hahn had a 426 00:36:52,730 --> 00:36:56,770 Speaker 1: Nobel prize. He could give credit to anyone he liked. 427 00:36:57,250 --> 00:37:01,850 Speaker 1: He could play the role that Pierre Curie played for Marie. 428 00:37:02,090 --> 00:37:06,130 Speaker 1: So when Hahn was giving his Nobel Prize acceptance speech 429 00:37:06,650 --> 00:37:11,490 Speaker 1: in Stockholm, the adopted home of his colleague, mentor, and 430 00:37:12,090 --> 00:37:18,450 Speaker 1: very close friend, Lisa Mightner, what did he say as 431 00:37:18,450 --> 00:37:23,690 Speaker 1: she looked on from the audience. He thanked Lisamightner for 432 00:37:23,770 --> 00:37:31,210 Speaker 1: the excellent work she had done as his assistant. Afterwards, 433 00:37:31,490 --> 00:37:34,970 Speaker 1: Hahn complained that Miightner and her friends had been rather 434 00:37:35,090 --> 00:37:39,610 Speaker 1: frosty towards him. He couldn't understand why. Maybe they were 435 00:37:39,650 --> 00:37:44,650 Speaker 1: still bitter about Hitler, but some part of Hahn's conscience 436 00:37:44,970 --> 00:37:49,730 Speaker 1: was bothering him because he quietly gave Lisa Mightner a 437 00:37:49,890 --> 00:37:54,170 Speaker 1: large share of the Nobel prize money. Miightner gave it 438 00:37:54,250 --> 00:37:59,010 Speaker 1: all to the Emergency Committee of Atomic Scientists, an organization 439 00:37:59,210 --> 00:38:06,010 Speaker 1: helping to resettle Jewish scientist refugees. Hahn wanted to forget 440 00:38:06,370 --> 00:38:10,730 Speaker 1: all about how the Jews had been treated. Miitna didn't. 441 00:38:11,650 --> 00:38:15,530 Speaker 1: She never returned to her old job in Germany, and 442 00:38:15,610 --> 00:38:19,370 Speaker 1: she never did get the pension they owed her. Neither 443 00:38:19,450 --> 00:38:24,050 Speaker 1: did she ever receive the Nobel Prize, despite being nominated 444 00:38:24,690 --> 00:38:30,370 Speaker 1: nineteen times for chemistry and twenty nine times for physics. 445 00:38:31,810 --> 00:38:36,770 Speaker 1: She did receive many other awards. Most poignantly, she was 446 00:38:36,810 --> 00:38:43,210 Speaker 1: the first recipient of the Otto Hahn Prize. Otto joked 447 00:38:43,210 --> 00:38:45,450 Speaker 1: as he handed her the medal that bore his name 448 00:38:46,010 --> 00:38:49,890 Speaker 1: that she could buy him a beer with the prize money. 449 00:38:50,450 --> 00:39:04,490 Speaker 1: Liza didn't see the funny side. This episode of Cautionary 450 00:39:04,530 --> 00:39:07,730 Speaker 1: Tales was based on the book The Woman Who Split 451 00:39:07,810 --> 00:39:11,250 Speaker 1: the Atom by Marie Moss. For a full list of 452 00:39:11,290 --> 00:39:18,730 Speaker 1: our sources, see the show notes at Timharford dot com. 453 00:39:18,770 --> 00:39:22,330 Speaker 1: Cautionary Tales is written by me Tim Harford with Andrew Wright, 454 00:39:22,530 --> 00:39:26,530 Speaker 1: Alice Fines, and Ryan Dilly. It's produced by Georgia Mills 455 00:39:26,650 --> 00:39:30,410 Speaker 1: and Marilyn Rust. The sound design and original music are 456 00:39:30,450 --> 00:39:34,530 Speaker 1: the work of Pascal Wise. Additional sound designs by Carlos 457 00:39:34,570 --> 00:39:39,370 Speaker 1: San Juan at Brain Audio. Ben A Dafhaffrey edited the scripts. 458 00:39:40,250 --> 00:39:44,130 Speaker 1: The show features the voice talents of Melanie Guttridge, Stella Harford, 459 00:39:44,330 --> 00:39:48,490 Speaker 1: Oliver Hembrough, Sarah Jupp, Mas, Sam and Roe, Jamal Westman, 460 00:39:48,690 --> 00:39:52,290 Speaker 1: and rufus Wright. The show also wouldn't have been possible 461 00:39:52,330 --> 00:39:56,050 Speaker 1: without the work of Jacob Weisberg, Greta Cohne, Sarah Nix, 462 00:39:56,370 --> 00:40:01,290 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Carrie Brody, Christina Sullivan, Kira Posey, and Owen Miller. 463 00:40:02,490 --> 00:40:06,450 Speaker 1: Cautionary Tales is a production of Pushkin Industries. It's recorded 464 00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:10,770 Speaker 1: at Wardore Studios in London. Like Tom Barrier, if you 465 00:40:10,890 --> 00:40:14,130 Speaker 1: like the show, please remember to share, rate and review. 466 00:40:14,210 --> 00:40:15,970 Speaker 1: It really makes a difference to us and if you 467 00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:18,690 Speaker 1: want to hear the show, add free sign up to 468 00:40:18,730 --> 00:40:22,050 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on the show page on Apple Podcasts or 469 00:40:22,050 --> 00:40:24,850 Speaker 1: at pushkin dot Fm, slash plus