1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Let's give a special shout 4 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: out to our guest super producer Tory Harrison. Are you 5 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: ready let's do this? Sorry, sorry, she's filling dead for 6 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: the Max. Yeah. Sorry, it's sorry. She's really awesome. Yeah, 7 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: thanks for covering me whiles off, Tory, I enjoy tome 8 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: off enjoin you, coming me out and thank you? Yeah, 9 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: whoa who you may recognize from Ridiculous News and check 10 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,199 Speaker 1: out Ridiculous News if you haven't done so yet, I'm 11 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: Ben your Noel and people can hear us on Ridiculous News. 12 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: We also had the creators of the show, Mark and 13 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: Bill on. We should have them back on again, you 14 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: know what wish I have Ridiculous Crime and Ridiculous Romance 15 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: back on at some point, that's for sure. I'm still 16 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: waiting for my invitation to be on Ridiculous News. What 17 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: I thought you were on there? No, ma'am. Sorry, I 18 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: need you to feel the strength of the side. Ie. 19 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: I know, I know you could see it sirring bordering 20 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: on an evil line, which we discussed in a secret 21 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: project for a different show that we'll tell you about 22 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: hopefully very soon. I I don't know, halloween ish, maybe 23 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: hallow ween esque time circa Halloween. What we was speaking 24 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: of resentment and boiling simmering rage. Uh, I'm just kidding. 25 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: It's cool. I love those guys. It's okay. If they 26 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: never want to have me on, I'll be fine with that, 27 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: but I will also die a little inside. So please 28 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: take note. I really want to be on Ridiculous News. 29 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: Love the show. We are today talking about a very 30 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: specific type of resentment that comes along with feeling as 31 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: though you were being replaced. Uh. We're sort of in 32 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: a situation with that right now in in the country, 33 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: in the world where technology is starting to creep in 34 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: and replace jobs that were once you know, largely occupied 35 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: by human people, things like check out kiosks at stores, 36 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: and you know, even the idea of AI coming in 37 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: and replacing the work of graphic designers, you know, with 38 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: some of these open you know, uh Dolly AI kind 39 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: of images or mid journey. You know, there's a lot 40 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: of um unease in the art community around the idea 41 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: of being able to just enter some text and generate 42 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: an image that technically is plumbing the depths of the 43 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: work other artists that is available on the internet to 44 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: kind of create this similacrum of art. Um. But we're 45 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: talking about kind of the earliest days of this concept, 46 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: the idea of skilled workers feeling not just feeling, you know, scared, 47 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: but but genuinely being sacked because they their jobs are 48 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: no longer required due to advancements in technology during the 49 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution. Yeah. Now this one is of a special 50 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: interest to me, uh and to you, I believe, as 51 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: well as our research associate, uh, the one and only 52 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: Zach Williams, who again you'll meet very soon in an 53 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: upcoming episode. You may have heard someone call someone else 54 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: a luddite, like or you may hear someone explain, um, uh, 55 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: their relationship with the technology they don't get right, like, hey, guys, sorry, 56 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: I had a tough time with this Adobe product or 57 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: this DOCU sign. I'm kind of a luddite. But it's 58 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: use Uh it's weird because it's kind of like those 59 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: same way people say you're a philistine. There's a story 60 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: behind these terms, and it's a story that, um, we 61 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: think a lot of people don't fully realize. Uh. The Luddites, 62 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: as you so beautifully set us up here to explordinal there. 63 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: They were a real people. And when I said people, 64 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: I don't mean like a a nation. It's a real 65 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: community of people. And around the turn of eighteen hundred 66 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: our story begins the textile industry in the United Kingdom. 67 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: It's a huge, huge deal. As a matter of fact, 68 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: in the north of the UK around this time, a 69 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: ton of people, in one way or another worked in 70 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: the textile industry. And it was partially still a cottage industry, right. 71 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: People were working from home literally in their cottages, and 72 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: they were doing time intensive labor by hand. They were 73 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: making style suckings. Cotton spinners were creating yard and I 74 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: think one group that's particularly interesting to us today would 75 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: be the croppers. Uh. They take these large sheets of 76 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: of this woven wool fabric and then they clean it up. 77 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: They trim off the rough surface so it's all nice 78 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: and smooth. Yeah, like a nice soft, cozy blanking to 79 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: back up one half inch bed. Where at what point 80 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: do you think the concept of spinning a yarn became 81 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: a euphemism for telling the story. Oh, that's a great question, 82 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: and we see this pretty often not just in English, 83 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: but in other other languages. A description of a physical 84 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: act becomes a figurative thing. It becomes an idiom or 85 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: return of phrase, right, like, uh, we'll we'll cross that 86 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: bridge where we get there? You know, I don't know, 87 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: I guess it would say, um, I had heard weirdly 88 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: enough that it came from nautical slang. Well. It also 89 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: reminds me of the idea of spinning a story from 90 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: whole cloth, the idea of making something up from scratch, 91 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: you know, or that would you know, telling a lie, 92 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: which sometimes a story can just be a very theatrical lie. 93 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: But I love the idea of your taking what essentially 94 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: is raw material and you're turning it into something of beauty, 95 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: which I think is a very appropriate, you know, a 96 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: metaphor for telling the story. But uh, sorry, I just 97 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: wanted to get out of the way. You know, I'm 98 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: always hung up on these little things. So this was 99 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: a very important job. These croppers, the ones that we 100 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: were describing as kind of trimming the fabric and making 101 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: it really really smooth and soft. Um, they had to 102 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: be muscular folks because they had to, like, you know, 103 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: use these big, kind of heavy pieces of machinery to 104 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: guide them across the fabric to get these you know, 105 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: these trimmings. And they also were incredibly well paid because 106 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: they didn't have to have a special set of skills 107 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: like Liam Neeson style. Um. Therefore, they commanded a significant 108 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: amount of control over their work life. There was something 109 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: that we have completely come to take for granted, or 110 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: take for not granted because we don't have it is 111 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: the work life balance. This is a very important thing. 112 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: They had holidays built in. They even took Monday's off 113 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: so they could get drunk. They called it Saint Monday. 114 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: It was yeah, bizarre. And then this is all that 115 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: kind of they were able to demand this even before 116 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: the time of unions. Then there may have been, you know, 117 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: a guild which would have probably had some kind of 118 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: collective bargaining power, you know, or at least what would 119 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: kind of be the equivalent of that back in those days. 120 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: But they were able to really get a lot of 121 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: of of perks. Yeah, yeah, and they were they were 122 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: known throughout the industry and the country as being the 123 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: least manageable of any employed people. Uh. This started to 124 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: become a problem in the first ten years of the 125 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, the textile industry was in trouble. There was 126 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: a decade of war with Napoleon that had halted trade, 127 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: and again an interesting parallel to today and the looming 128 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: supply chain crisis, the cost of food and everything you 129 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: could buy, the cost of living in general is going 130 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: up pretty significantly. Also, the textile industry is inherently part 131 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: of the fashion industry, and fashion, as we know is fickle. 132 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: Check out our episodes on fashions of yesteryear. Uh Men 133 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: began wearing a different type of clothing. They started rocking 134 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: these things called trousers, which were spelled t r o 135 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: w S e r s at the time, which meant 136 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: demand for stockings plummeted, and the merchant class, the folks 137 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:09,479 Speaker 1: who you know, make their big off of paying hosiers 138 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: and croppers and then weavers and then selling the finished product. 139 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: They had to figure out a way to contain these 140 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: rising costs. So the first thing they did was attempt 141 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: to reduce wages while at the same time bringing in 142 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: ding ding ding, new improved technology, new new kinds of 143 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: new kinds of rigs, new processes, in particular what one 144 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: thing called a gig mill and a gig mill would 145 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: let a single person crop wool much much more quickly 146 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: than the old methods. You know. It reminds me of 147 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: this great Mitchell and Web sketch about the what is 148 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: it the Stone Age entering the Bronze Age? Did you 149 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: ever see that? When I don't think I saw that 150 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: one I of those guys, but uh, definitely haven't seen 151 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: every every bit of their show. I'll send it to 152 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: you after this. Also, sometimes folks peaked by the ridiculous curtain. 153 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: It is not uncommon for us to pause recording and 154 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: watch things that we sent to each other. But we're 155 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: we're being pros today, so we're gonna We're gonna. I'll 156 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: just send it to you after work, but but it 157 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: will be worth it solid. Yes, So this this other 158 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: stuff they do, man, they these the merchant class. They 159 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: have these new frames, wide stocking frames, and these stocking 160 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: frames will let a weaver produce stockings six times faster 161 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: than before to meet There's a question for me here though. 162 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: If stockings are already going out of fashion, I guess 163 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: there's still some sort of demand, but it seems like 164 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: maybe not the most productive thing to make the product 165 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 1: people don't want six times faster. Yeah, I guess it 166 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: would have been what they would have referred to as 167 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: their woolens, you know, like, um, I think possibly a 168 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: combination of defenses against the cold, but also I think 169 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: they were probably really popular, um and puritanical sets. You know, 170 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: the idea of making sure that your your legs were 171 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: covered and all of that good stuff. Um, you know 172 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: you're a woman. Um. But yeah, it was veering out 173 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: of that more puritanical territory and into the Enlightenment essentially, right, 174 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: I mean that's where we were heading. Well, they did this, 175 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: you know, they did something that really lays down the 176 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: precedent for a lot of worker employer tensions in the 177 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: modern day with If we look at the specifics here 178 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 1: of this stocking change, then what would happen is instead 179 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: of weaving an entire stocking arounds by hand, you produced 180 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: this big sheet of hosiery basically stocking material. You cut 181 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: it up and then you would put it together. The 182 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: problem was the quality just wasn't there. These cut up 183 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: stockings will fall apart quickly, but you didn't need highly skilled, 184 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: highly trained workers to make them, and the merchants don't care. 185 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: We're also we owe a shout out to Clive Thompson 186 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: over the Smithsonian because he wrote a fantastic article about this. Yeah, 187 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: with a really great headline too. When robots take all 188 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: of our jobs remember the Luddites, as we were talking 189 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: about kind of at the top of the show, this 190 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: is not in a brand new concept, this concern of 191 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 1: of being replaced, you know, by a machine. And certainly 192 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: these were not quote unquote smart machines, but technology in 193 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: and of itself. Ben as as you often like to say, 194 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: remember who exactly the quote is from. But Arthur C. Clark, Um, 195 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, in a certain context, is indistinguishable from magic. So, um, 196 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: you have this very powerful force, um, let's call it, 197 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, technological magic that's sweeping in and replacing the 198 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: job of several individuals. Um. And this is not this 199 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: is not this is not going unnoticed. I mean this 200 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: is you know again, we had these these these croppers 201 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: that were occupying a very kind of privileged position in 202 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: the workforce. Um, they were able to get these demands mets, 203 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: you know, all their vacation time and then their perks 204 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,719 Speaker 1: in their pay and now all of a sudden, well 205 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: we don't need you anymore or at least we don't 206 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: need as many of you. Yeah, no longer in the 207 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: catbird seat. Uh. The merchant's cost cutting gambit actually works 208 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: out for them, or appears to for a time. We 209 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: owe a nod of thanks to Kevin Binfield, an English 210 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: professor at Murray State University. Uh and a guy who 211 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: actually is the editor of Writings of the Luddites, which 212 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: is an excellent work on this time period in this movement. 213 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: So Professor Benfield notes that the lace workers, the knitters, 214 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: the you name it's of the textile industry realize things 215 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: are in decline, in big part because of the supply 216 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: chain problems and inflation due to the war. But they 217 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: also see that people aren't worried as much about quality. 218 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: These folks, who are experts in their field have been Uh. 219 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: This might sound familiar to some of our fellow friends 220 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: who worked from home during the pandemic. These individuals watched 221 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: as their work was moved from the houses where they 222 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: lived to these big factories that would house cotton weaving machines, 223 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: and the workers started to protest. Rabble rabble, rabble, grumble, grumble, grumble, 224 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: And they said, you know what you guys are making 225 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: lower quality stuff, and several of them said, you know what, 226 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: I am down the clown as long as I make 227 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of this profit too. But not only 228 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: I get the feeling. History will show us they weren't 229 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: getting profit sharing from this. Of course they weren't, because 230 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: that's that's how you know, scaling and and industrialization works. 231 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: You know, you take what was once a cottage industry, 232 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: perhaps a skill passed down from generations, you know, from 233 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: from mother to daughter. You know, the the art of 234 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: lace making, very very subtle and bespoke kind of work 235 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: that goes into that, and then all of a sudden, 236 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: you're you're doing it on and on this grand scale, 237 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: in this massive factory with unskilled workers. And understandably, you 238 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: know you would see that, Uh if you were one 239 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: of those skilled workers and this was a very important 240 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: part of your upbringing and your family heritage or whatever 241 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: it might be. Uh, you're gonna take that really personally. Um, 242 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: it's the same as you know, the kind of commodification 243 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: of any art form. It takes the magic out of it. 244 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: It kind of takes the heart and soul out of it. 245 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: And sure industrialists and you know, um, corporate big wigs 246 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: they're not so concerned about the quality as they are 247 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: about the quantity. Yeah, and so these artisans try to 248 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: head things off at the past another phrase that was 249 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: literal and became figurative or you know, they say, maybe 250 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: we can slow it, maybe we can make this a 251 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: smooth transition over time. So they looked for stuff like 252 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: workers pensions, a new step in the world of workers rights, 253 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: and the factory owners didn't want to play ball. So 254 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: kind of like unions that have been in pretty tense, 255 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: sometimes hostile negotiations with companies in the US today, the 256 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: factory owners said, no, we're not doing it. And that's 257 00:16:54,440 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: where the Luddite movement emerges. These attempts at negotiation fail. 258 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: The workers aren't being listened to, their concerns aren't being addressed. 259 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,959 Speaker 1: We can also give you a little bit of political context, 260 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: larger context, just you know how bad things are at 261 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: this time. Thousands of people in the UK, not just 262 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: in this industry, or suffering from chronic hunger what we 263 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: call food and security today. And there were these laws 264 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: passed by Parliament called combination laws. Combination laws were directly 265 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: aimed against collective action by textile workers. It's kind of 266 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: like if Congress passed the law specifically aimed at um, 267 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: I don't know, podcasters or something like that. It's weirdly specific. Yeah, 268 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: And it's just a backtrack on something that I said earlier. Um, 269 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: you know, in in terms of the croppers being able 270 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: to get all of these demands met, all of these 271 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: you know, privileges in terms of their vacation and they're 272 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: pay and all that. Um. The first A lot of 273 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: stuff was happening around this time. In eighteen sixty the 274 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: first union, the first recorded union trade union was established, 275 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: the London Trades Counts in the UK and the London 276 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: Trades Council which was founded in eighteen sixteen, and then um, 277 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: a little bit later, the Trades Union Congress in eighteen 278 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: sixty eight. But Ben, when was this combination law passed? 279 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: Because I'm trying to there's a lot of like upheaval, 280 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: you know. Um, the French Revolution was not far off 281 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: from from here. The Industrial Revolution encompasses a lot of 282 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 1: this and the Enlightenment period. There's a lot of overlap here, 283 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: the combination. So there's a series of combination laws I believe. UM. 284 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: For example, one is the Combination Act of seventeen ninety 285 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: nine that explicitly outlaws unions. And obviously that doesn't stick 286 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: around forever because as you said that, this union forms 287 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: in UH in this eighteen sixties later, so Luodites go underground, 288 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 1: they go clandestine, they start organizing in secret. This is 289 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: one of the most cool work meetings you can imagine, 290 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: but it's also a very desperate series of meetings. People 291 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: are unable to feed their families and we we this 292 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: is not meant is that convenient term that politicians UH 293 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: trot out every election day. They're literally not able to 294 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: feed their families, and they say, you know what, this 295 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: is gonna take everybody if you we are not a 296 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: male only organization. Women workers get involved, child laborers which 297 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: were still very much a thing. You're part of this 298 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: movement to eventually women and children formed something around of 299 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: the Luddite membership, which was very progressive for its time, 300 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: despite you know, child labor. Yeah, highly recommend a cool 301 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: article called the few chur Encyclopedia of Luttism by Miriam H. Cherry. 302 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: You find out on the reader dot m I T 303 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: Press dot m I T dot e d u um. 304 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: Really really great resource for all kinds of fantastic historical 305 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: I guess journalism. M yeah, and and this is okay. 306 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: So what they're doing now is not the same stuff 307 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: that you would see a group of workers do in 308 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: a more ostensibly democratic society. They're not necessarily just doing protests, 309 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: you know. What I mean is starting in eighteen eleven, 310 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: which is the first year some really intense Luod Eye activity. 311 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: So they do have a peaceful gathering near the Exchange 312 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: Hall in Nottingham, and that doesn't stay peaceful because later 313 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: they attack these wide knitting frames in a nearby shop 314 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: in a a village called Arnold, and the month before that, 315 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: Stocking Urse, which were framework knitters, broke into shops and 316 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: removed various components of knitting frames that made them useless 317 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: and incredibly dangerous to use if you tried this attack. 318 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: On March eleventh, eighteen eleven, is as far as we 319 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: can tell, the first time the name Blood was used. Right, 320 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: so I would be follower of Luod that's right, Yeah, 321 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: like it was. It was this kind of symbolic figure, 322 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: this this idea of of a general uh someone leading 323 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: the charge, but I don't think it was actually a 324 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: real person, right, It's okay, So it's still kind of 325 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: dodgy today. In two as we record, the movement was 326 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: said pretty often to be named after a guy named 327 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: ned Lud, an imprentice who smashed some stocking frames in 328 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: seventeen seventy nine. So people associated this figure with the 329 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: destruction of machines. But later it turned out that ned 330 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: Lud was a totally fictional character. He was a story 331 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: people told themselves. And then as you pointed out later, 332 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: this develops into a more uh fleshed out kind of 333 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: character synonymous with the cause. General Lud or King Lud 334 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: is sort of like the Uncle Sam of this movement. 335 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: We need you to join the croppers, um. And that's 336 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: essentially what happened. It was this kind of concerted effort 337 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: to organize and almost create what we might today consider 338 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: um acts of industrial sabotage. Right. I mean, this is 339 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: bigger than just people that don't like machines or cannot computer. 340 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 1: These are people who are resentful to the point of 341 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: you know, violence of these new developments, uh, because they 342 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: are directly impacting their ability to feed their families. Yeah. Yeah. 343 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: They said, look, you're making crappy material, and secondly, you're 344 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: employing people who have not completed their seven year apprenticeship. Uh. 345 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: This those folks that you might call scaps today, we're 346 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: called cults back then ce l t s. And so 347 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: there are more and more attacks. There were several weeks 348 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: of almost nightly attacks. They were all successful. No one 349 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: was caught or arrested, and that kind of implies that 350 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: the common person was on the side of the Luddites. 351 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: Things go a little quiet in summer, but then there's 352 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:53,959 Speaker 1: a bad harvest in November, and this is where we see, Um, 353 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, this is where it gets it gets 354 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,479 Speaker 1: sticky because we've established the general lud is sort of 355 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: a a semi fictional character, right, so this is where 356 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: we go back to. Uh the article cited earlier by 357 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: Miriam A. Cherry. They started in November of eighteen eleven, 358 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: surrounding and holding factories throughout the textile district of nottingham Shire. 359 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: And I'm so sorry, Uh, fellow UK friends and ridiculous historians. 360 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: My tongue is tripping over Nottinghamshire. Is it Nottinghamshire Nottinghamshire? Well, 361 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: I think it's I think the shire. You could say 362 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: it as just nottingham or nottingham Shire. Uh. The and 363 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 1: I only say sheer because that's how they say it. 364 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: In a Day on the Life of the Beatles song, 365 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: they say ten thousand holes in Blackford, Lancashire, So I 366 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: think that might be a colloquial pronunciation. But I think 367 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: Nottingham and nottingham Shire are the same thing. I think 368 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: it's just like a a little extra. But I think 369 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: it's no accident that they are. All these all touristic 370 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: terms being used. You know, we do know that there 371 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: was a real person named George Miller who took on 372 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: the you know, military leadership title of lieutenant and was 373 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: described as being General Lud's right hand man. But but again, 374 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: like you said, a lot of the details around Lud 375 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: and his identity are a little bit sketchy. But this 376 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: was war ben. They they surrounded a textile district and 377 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: they literally held position in these factories. Um, and they won. 378 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: At Cartwright Mill at Raffolds is now to this day 379 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: the site of the Miller Memorial Museum, where you can 380 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: see lots of documentation pertaining to the Luddite movement. Again, 381 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: read this article by A Cherry in the n T Press. 382 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: It's fantastic you ever find yourself there I'm sure this 383 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: would be a great visit um. But essentially, you know, 384 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: while the Luddites do get a bit of a rap 385 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: as being these kind of almost deadly terrorists, in a 386 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: sense at least, you know, again, one person's freedom fighters 387 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: and the person's terrorists. It started off as a peaceful movement. 388 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And a lot of the early campaigns were 389 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: successful because of that pacifist nature. They were largely a 390 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: peaceful movement. And when the press, which was owned by 391 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: the powers that be, when the press was describing these 392 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: factory occupations, they were trying to make it seem more 393 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: militaristic and perhaps violence than it actually was. But we 394 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: see that things did escalate. Uh, the common people are 395 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: with them, the presses against them, the ownership classes certainly 396 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:56,360 Speaker 1: against them. Some of these attacks used sledge hammers, and 397 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: the factory owners, as far as we could tell, were 398 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: the first to produce firearms and fire upon protesters. The 399 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: workers were hoping that they could essentially create such a 400 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: stink that there would be a ban on weaving machines, 401 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: but the British government doubled down. Instead, they made breaking 402 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: machines a crime punishable by death. Dang, Yeah, I don't 403 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: imagine the death penalty for uh, you know what, you 404 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: would maybe consider just playing old vandalism. I mean, it 405 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: doesn't remind me, It doesn't strike me as being too 406 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:44,439 Speaker 1: different from allowing uh, the idea of personhood to corporations, 407 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It really shows where our 408 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: priorities are like in terms of like, you know, um 409 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: commerce is that No, No, these machines are every bit 410 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: as as valuable and uh and have have the as 411 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: much of a right to live as human beings do. 412 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: In fact, I would argue more of a right to 413 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: live because the machines themselves are causing the death, the 414 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: deaths and starvation and and displacement of actual human people. 415 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: So you can almost argue that the government is assigning 416 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: more value um to the machines than they are too 417 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: to the human beings themselves by you know, making the 418 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: destruction of these machines a crime worthy of the death penalty. 419 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: It's nuts, It's nuts. I don't even think it's an argument. 420 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: That's totally what they're doing, and there's a profits over 421 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: people kind of situation. And then you know, from the 422 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: other side of this argument, the business owners would probably say, well, 423 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: why are you restricting my freedom to make a more 424 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: successful business. The economy is tough. It's a tale as 425 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: old as time, so it might be strange to realize, 426 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: after all the stuff we're describing folks that in the 427 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: first two years of the Leadye campaign, you know, when 428 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: things really pop in eighteen eleven to eighteen twelve, there's 429 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: only one serious injury we know of, and that is 430 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: a guy named William horse Full or horse Fall. He's 431 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: the owner of the Ottawell's mill. He refuses to stand 432 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: down when a crowd of protesters gathers outside his factory, 433 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: and then he's he says, it's not funny because you 434 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: know it's people's lives. But you know, in response to 435 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: their demands and protests. Uh, horse Fall says, I planned 436 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: to swim in bloody blood. And he fires his rifle 437 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: out into the crowd, which is mostly unarmed. Uh. And 438 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: she's composed again of a lot of child workers. Uh. 439 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: This guy that we introduced earlier, Lieutenant Mellor, he fires 440 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: a single shot and he's thinking, I'm gonna wing this 441 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: guy on the arm, but instead he shoots him in 442 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: his junk's right and they're growing not on purpose, no, no, 443 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: he really was just trying to wing him, but instead 444 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: he debinged him. Yeah, there we go. So at this point, 445 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: essentially there was something of a surrender, right, Yeah. Yeah, 446 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: they take over the factory without further incident. Um. There 447 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: were some people in the ruling class who are on 448 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: board with the Luddites. Lord Byron wrote a poem about 449 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: it called Song for the Luddites, and he mentions the 450 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: character of King Blood or General Luod or ned Lud 451 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: and this is again this kind of the Uncle Sam 452 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: for them. Uh, this is the leader who exists as 453 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: a man of mystery, right, His powers are as pervasive 454 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: as his enigmatic nature. No one really knows who he is. 455 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,719 Speaker 1: No one knows where he's at or where he'll strike. 456 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: Maybe this is propaganda. I believe you could make a 457 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: strong case that it is. But no, all of this 458 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: propaganda works. The forces of law and order a kind 459 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: of spooked by this guy, and they start obsessing over 460 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: finding ned Luod. And well, like we we kind of 461 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: spoiled the lead. There was no Ned Luod. This was 462 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: a made up thing. We talked about the story. He 463 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: became a symbolic leader, He became a folk hero in 464 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: Nottingham which you know has it passed with folk leaders 465 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: shout out Robin Hood. Uh. And there's there's actually a 466 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: verse we found that compares the two. Uh. How do 467 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: you feel about a dramatic reading? Mr? Brown? Absolutely, I 468 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: just wanted to add to it. Really reminds me of 469 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: vif for Vendetta, the idea you can't kill an idea, 470 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: you can't kill, you know, something that's bigger than a 471 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: man or you know, shot, you're only killing a man. 472 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. And and this is this is how 473 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: these kind of movements really do get into the hearts 474 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: and minds of people. And uh and can actually, you know, 475 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: potentially overturn the status quo. It's not through violence, through 476 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: the spread of ideas and you know, kind of changing 477 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: people's minds. But yeah, let's let's do this dramatic reading. 478 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: It's so good chance, no more your old rhymes about 479 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: bold Robin Hood his feet side, but little admire I 480 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: will seeing the achievements of General Luod now the hero 481 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: of nottingham Shire. See now this this tells us how 482 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: you pronounce it is the rhyme shire and Shire. There 483 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: we go, We solved it. Do do uh? Shout out 484 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: to Casey on the case I miss you. So this 485 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: Ludite revolt, which we can call it now spreads to 486 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: Yorkshire during eighteen twelve, then to Lancashire, and as this 487 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: movement expands, it starts to fragment a little bit. Differing 488 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: trades join in with differing priorities, right uh. And you 489 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: may find that the tenants of the Ldite movement in 490 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: one part of the country are different from the tenants 491 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: of the movement in another region. It also became more 492 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: violent as it grew in size and picked up momentum. 493 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: They started setting mills on fire, so we went from 494 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: occupation to arson. Uh. And then they started firing back 495 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: at the guards of factories and mills and at the 496 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: at the law that was set upon them. In eighteen twelve, 497 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: four Lettites die and this this sort of changes the 498 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: tenor So I want to step back when clarify the 499 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: the initial parts of the movement, the initial phases and 500 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: that year eighteen eleven, those were largely peaceful, are real 501 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: in Flychin Point is around this time of April twelve. Yeah, 502 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: and you know, it just goes to show how history 503 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:13,760 Speaker 1: remembers things. You know, the term luddite typically conjures images 504 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: of people smashing stuff up, you know, if you're even 505 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: remotely familiar with the actual history of it. If you're not, 506 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: it's just typically like you said, thrown around just to 507 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: describe someone that isn't very good at using technology. It 508 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily hate it or want it to be exploded, 509 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,879 Speaker 1: but it usually it is like like Philistines describing someone 510 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: that doesn't have much taste or is culturally like not 511 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: very refined. But again, the actual history of that is 512 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: much more complex than what it is ultimately kind of 513 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: boiled down to over time, maybe we do, you know what, 514 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: We're just gonna have to do an atomology show at 515 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: some point at for the people, no adiomatic for the people. 516 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: For the people, we need them back. Kind of the same. So, 517 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: as we said, things are getting violent. The factory owners 518 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: are much more influential in the government because they have 519 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: much more money, and eventually the government sends fourteen thousand 520 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: soldiers into areas with a lot of luod eye activity. 521 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: The Luddites have to battle the British Army. Uh. The 522 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: government also tries to suppress things and infiltrate the group 523 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: with spies there's this terrible crackdown. Um. We mentioned the 524 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 1: death penalty for breaking specific types of weaving machines, and 525 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: by winter of eighteen twelve, the government is winning. The 526 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: organization has been infiltrated in just fifteen months. Twenty four 527 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: different members of the Luddite movement are hanged as public examples, 528 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: including a sixteen year old boy who cried out for 529 00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: his mom just before he was hanged. In case you're 530 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: wondering who I think the bad guys are in this story, Yeah, 531 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 1: making an example you know of them, Um, after putting 532 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: them in the position where they needed to organize in 533 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: this way, they they what what what else do they have? 534 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: At this point? You know, they were not allowed to unionize. 535 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: They were completely robbed of the only you know, skill 536 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: set they have, which that is an investment of time 537 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,280 Speaker 1: and and and history, you know, and and just generational knowledge. 538 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: And to all of a sudden just have that like 539 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: totally yanked out from under you and then to not 540 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: have any what what are you supposed to do? Just starve? Die? 541 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: I don't wander. I mean, it's just it's cruel history. 542 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: In the history of industrialization and uh and and commerce, 543 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: it's gonna be so cruel, Yeah yeah, and it's hard work. 544 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: Not for nothing is it called the labor movement. These 545 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,800 Speaker 1: hangings are the result of some real kangaroo court type 546 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: show trials, actually not to be two on the nose. 547 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: Two dozen folks were sent up the river in the 548 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: UK to prison, and then fifty one were given the 549 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: sentence of transportation, meaning after their kangaroo court they were 550 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: physically shipped to Australia. This is effective. This is some 551 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: real scorched earth stuff the British government is doing. By 552 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: eighteen thirteen the looks like the heyday of the Luddites 553 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: is on the way out. A few years later the 554 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: group essentially vanished. And this doesn't mean it's the end 555 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: of conflict between workers and owner classes. Very much not 556 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: the case. You can hear about the Luddites today. You 557 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: hear echoes of the fight against being replaced by machines 558 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: in um in labor movements today and threats of union 559 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,839 Speaker 1: strikes like right now the nation the United States is 560 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: rightly concerned about a possible industry wide rail strike, and 561 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: right now, if nobody, if if you don't think trains 562 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: are that important, folks, and you haven't checked out stuff. 563 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: They don't want you to to know another show. We do 564 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: realize that in the modern day, thirty percent of everything 565 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: you buy is transported on rail at some point, and 566 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: that is gonna that when the stuff hits that fan, 567 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: the stuff is gonna spread. You know what I mean. 568 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: You've heard about this, right I have. I have? And 569 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: it also you know, I think the bigger issue here 570 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: too is that when you have these large scaled kind 571 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: of operations that don't require specialized skills, Um, you're you're 572 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: you're not gonna command as higher wage because they're gonna 573 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: hire a lot of people for a low wage and 574 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: they're technically replaceable, you know. And again this is no 575 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: ding on any individual toll like Amazon warehouse worker or 576 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: you know. Um, there's certainly are varying degrees of skills 577 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: required for different kind of industrial type jobs, like you know, 578 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: you couldn't just walk into a car plant to like 579 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: an automotive plan and just know what you were doing. 580 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: But there are certain jobs that are seen as being replaceable, 581 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: like for example, Starbucks trying to unionize. Starbucks workers trying 582 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 1: to unionize, and in the eyes of the management, they 583 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: might say, well, you know that these are entry level jobs. 584 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,760 Speaker 1: These are jobs that are for you know, young people 585 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: that anyone could come off the street and make a 586 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: latte or whatever. I'm not saying that's the case, but 587 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: that's the perception. And so the idea of unionizing when 588 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 1: you are seen as replaceable as even more challenging. And 589 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: the big wigs and the corporations are more interested in 590 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: busting that now than they ever have been, you know, 591 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: or at least as interested. Um. We we've seen all 592 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: kinds of you know, union busting tactics employed by you know, 593 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 1: Starbucks and Amazon and things like that. It's technically illegal 594 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,399 Speaker 1: to do that, but if you're wealthy and powerful enough, 595 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: they're always ways around it. Yeah, well said. And it's 596 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: a struggle that continues today. The idea of being caught 597 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: beneath the thumb and powerful interests being swept away by 598 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: the tide of technological innovation. It's a common theme and 599 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: it's not going to go away in the future. Uh. 600 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,359 Speaker 1: Like we always point out, history is much closer than 601 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: it might appear in your rear view mirror. And with that, 602 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 1: I think we're going to call it a day. We've 603 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: got some exciting stuff ahead. I don't want to spoil 604 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: too much, but we do want to say very very 605 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: special thanks to our guest super producer Tari Harrison. Uh, Tari, I, 606 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,479 Speaker 1: I'm sure you are frantically writing an email to Bill 607 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: and Mark about their Uh they're they're egregious, egregious lack 608 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: of treshon. Yeah yeah this, Uh what is it? Well, 609 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: shall not stand this? Some suggression will not stand now. Yeah, yeah, 610 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: it's okay, get get the show. Yeah. And uh also 611 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: thanks of course to Max Williams, who was on a 612 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: well deserved vacation. I've just been texting memes at times. 613 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: We're waiting for some out of context pictures for Miss Journeys. 614 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 1: He'll be returning soon. Uh, let's see who else? Who else? 615 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,240 Speaker 1: Who else? Oh, Chris Fresciota is obviously here in spirit 616 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: soon can be here and the flesh. That's that's happening. 617 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: I think we finally twist his arm to get that 618 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: USB mic ordered. Yeah, that's true. We did kind of 619 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: muscle in on the poor guy. We where they called 620 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: button to hold him. But that is how we get 621 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: things done. We make idle threads will find me on 622 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: your podcast. Alight, will smash your loom. Yeah, and you know, 623 00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: we we've still got our vision board thing going on 624 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: that's been making some progress. Yeah. Thanks of course to 625 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The Quister, Thanks to Eve's 626 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: Jeff Coach, Thanks to Anna Host, thanks to well now, 627 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: I feel like we're just awards speeching. We got everythank 628 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: God huh. I'll go to the dog Kanye. I'd like 629 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: to thank me. Yeah, you did this, man, you did this. 630 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: You did it, You did it. We'll see you next time, folks. 631 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I 632 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to 633 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.