WEBVTT - I Choose...To Talk About My Imposter Syndrome 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:09.920 You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone, 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.400 welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.960 the choices we make and where they lead us. I 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:21.200 have been internally struggling with something and I want to 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.560 talk about it today on the podcast because we are 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.520 becoming a real community here at ICMP, as I like 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.080 to call it, you know, I like my abbreviations, and 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:37.400 my hope is that by me sharing today what I've 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.440 been going through, maybe it will help some of you 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:46.040 listening to not feel alone, maybe you're experiencing something similar. 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.279 And then later I am going to be joined by 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.880 my guest, doctor Lisa orbe Austen to talk about this, 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.880 but first let me just start with talking about my experience. 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.560 I think this is what people are calling imposter syndrome. 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.560 I don't know if I'm in on that title. I've 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.960 always thought it was just called fear, the fear of 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:14.119 not feeling good enough. Maybe, but maybe once I hear 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:18.039 from doctor Lisa and I understand imposter syndrome a little 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.800 bit better, I will have a different perspective. Okay, So 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.200 here's what's going on for me right now. I am 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:29.200 embarking on what will be a pretty big, kind of 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:35.200 defining move in my work life and inevitably in my 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:39.000 personal life. It's a path I never saw ahead of me. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.360 I think I've mentioned before that I'm not much of 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:47.280 a planner, but this I for sure did not see coming. 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.880 You guys, I am about to release my very own 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:57.880 fashion line called Me, and it's going to be exclusive 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.040 with my friends at QVC, and there will be monthly 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.800 drops starting July twenty ninth, which is just in a 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.760 few days. It will be full on collections of styles 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.080 that I love and that I want to share with 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.160 all of you. So it's super exciting. But it's also 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.520 kind of bonkers to me. And here's the point. Here's 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.560 the real reason that I'm breaking this news to you 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:27.040 today in this way, because when this opportunity came to me, 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:32.279 when I got this unexpected call, this is the neighborhood 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.160 my mind went straight to. I wrote down some of 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.200 my thoughts as they were happening, so let me just 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:42.080 read them to you. Did I ask for this? 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:42.680 No? 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.680 Do I know much about the fashion industry? Huhuh No? 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:51.120 Not really. Can I tell a woven from a slub knit? Nope? 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.320 So you're saying you have no idea what you're doing, 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.440 then why are you doing it? I mean, you don't 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.760 even have that great a style, do you. Didn't a 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:00.760 friend recently tell you that you should just wear what 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:02.880 they told you to wear in order to look good 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.680 and succeed. Aren't you over fifty and washed up? Yeah? 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.800 You should probably back out and keep hiding from the world. 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.320 Huh okay, yeah, so what is that? What is this? 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:18.679 Why does my mind take me there like that? Why 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.760 do I automatically think I will fail or worse yet, 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.480 I'll succeed, And then what will I not have what 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.480 it takes? Will everyone find out that I'm a fraud? 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:34.640 I have faced negative self talk my entire life, so 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:39.320 what you just heard was really nothing new to me. 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.680 Messages like this have been and still are something I 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.880 deal with pretty much on a daily basis, me being 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:52.200 my own worst enemy, my worst critic, my biggest hater. 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:58.000 And I've felt these same sort of feelings before way 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.360 more times than I would really like to add. Whether 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:06.120 it's feeling inadequate as a mom at times like times 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.600 when my girls are struggling with something and I have 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:14.560 to dispense advice to them and I feel like I'm 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.200 making things up as I go, hoping that it will 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.760 all work out. I felt like this when I signed 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.919 on to do a comedy as an actress on What 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.000 I Like About You, and I was surrounded by people 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.800 who had a lot of experience doing comedy, and they 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.560 were so funny and confident, and I felt like I 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.760 sucked so bad at it. I just I told myself 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:39.640 I should quit, and I should leave the building and 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.680 never come back. And in my relationships, sometimes I feel 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:47.400 like I have no idea what I'm doing, Like I'm 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.600 messing things up left and right, Like I should just 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.479 move to a deserted island with my dogs and live 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:59.960 alone forever. Like no matter what it is, I feel 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.200 somehow unworthy or not good enough, and I feel like 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.760 I shouldn't even try to do whatever it is that's 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.919 ahead of me, that's scaring me, And I want to 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:16.080 know why am I like this? Is this impostor syndrome? 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:27.920 My guest today is a psychologist, an executive career coach, 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.359 and the co author of Your Unstoppable Greatness. She is 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:37.360 an expert when it comes to impostor syndrome. Please welcome 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.320 doctor Lisa orbe Austin to the I Choose Me Podcast. 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:46.040 Hi doctor Lisa, Hi Jenny, Oh my goodness, so nice 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.039 to see you. Thank you, thank you for being here, 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.960 thank you for having me. Okay, first off, what is 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.440 impostor syndrome? I don't even think I really know, And 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:58.920 maybe for some of our listeners out there who who 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:01.839 may not know what it is, can you just give 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:02.680 us the definition? 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.320 Sure? So, the original term is the imposter phenomenon, and 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:10.680 what it means is that while you are skilled, talented, capable, 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:13.960 you know have the credentials you need to succeed, you 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.040 haven't internalized them. And as a result of not internalizing them, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:21.039 you tend to fear being revealed as a fraud. And 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.640 oftentimes that happens as a result of making a mistake 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:28.120 or an error, having a moment of failure. And usually 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.520 we choose one of two paths when we were confronted 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:32.880 with that. We either overwork to try to show that 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.800 we do deserve and we do belong there, or we 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.480 self sabotage and get into situations in which we are 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:40.280 kind of trying to prove to ourselves that we are 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.520 truly a fraud and don't belong or we're given the opportunity, 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.760 and so these kinds of cycles tend to repeat themselves 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.320 around triggers for us around performance and achievement. 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.240 Okay, okay, so you heard what I was just talking 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:01.680 about about my inner voices. What do you what do 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:03.720 you think is that imposter syndrome? 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.040 It sounds very much like it. And I'll tell you 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.160 what when I was when I was listening to you, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:10.720 I was sort of taking some notes about sort of 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.680 what sounds familiar and what are some of the things 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.040 that sounded familiar as you're talking through your narrative of 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.000 this experience of starting your new fashion line, is that 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.800 you know it's a new experience. So new experiences are 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.960 often a trigger for us because when we have imposters 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.160 or more often aiming toward mastery doing things that we 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.440 are we know we're good at and we know we 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.560 can succeed at almost one hundred percent, So having something 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.880 new on the horizon that feels unfamiliar. And the other 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.800 concept that I think is there too is oftentimes we see, 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.240 if someone's given this kind of opportunity, they must be 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.440 expert and we have a very narrow concept of what 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.200 expertise means. It means, you know, like you were saying, 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:51.000 knowing the difference between different types of fabrics or cuts 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.320 are And this may not be the only reason you're 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.800 given an opportunity to do something like this, but we 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.200 often have a very narrow understanding of what expertise means, 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.600 and it's often thing we are definitely not. So that 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.680 was there. I also heard pieces of perfectionism, So this 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.480 idea that you have to be perfect or else that 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.800 you're not you know, good enough, you know, as you 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:12.680 were learning to be on the sitcom and kind of 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.240 finding your own voice and finding your own comedic kind 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:19.600 of talents. This idea of overestimating others who felt so confident, 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.440 so comfortable, and underestimating the talents you were giving that 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.920 you weren't looking at at all. So a lot of 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:29.080 these narratives, having the worst critic or being your worst critic, 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.520 all of these are elements of imposter syndrome. And the 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.319 hallmark is being worrying that you're a fraud. 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:42.120 The dreaded F word, Yes, fraud. Why does my mind 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.000 do this though? Like, why are we wired that way? 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.200 Yeah? I mean I think you point to something even 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.439 in the question fundamentals, is that oftentimes it comes from 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:54.120 our childhood experiences and early kind of dynamics. So there 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.080 are a lot of familiar early dynamics that happen as children. 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.959 And that's why it feels so wired, why it feels 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.880 so automatic, like I have no choice, because the ways 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.560 in which we were raised as children oftentimes groove these 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.600 things very very intensely, and so it feels like we 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.360 have no other choice. When we do have other choices, 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.600 they just these ones just feel really familiar and almost comforting, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:16.640 even though they are problematic to us. 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.120 I think that's the way it is with most most 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:26.520 automatic sort of self negative inner dialogue, inner talk, right, 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.000 It's like they're grooved into the into your brain, like 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:31.960 they're so easy and automatic. 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.679 Yeah. Yeah, we call them automatic negative thoughts or ants 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.520 you know that are just really really familiar. And I 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.320 think the ants is a great, you know, kind of 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.640 metaphor for the thought, because while it is small and tiny, 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.240 the thought it feels really heavy, can lift more than 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.360 its weight, you know. It has a real powerful, you know, 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.520 kind of resonance for us, more than even the truth 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:53.280 is for us. 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.960 Yeah, it's so true. My friend doctor Amon had talked 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:02.320 to me about that before about ants. Yeah, and I 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:07.360 think everybody has them automatic negative thoughts. Yeah, yes, just unfortunate. 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.280 I've got to be honest, Like sharing this in this 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.480 way on the podcast, it feels kind of vulnerable, a 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:18.040 little embarrassing, like I'm a little ashamed almost even to 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.320 admit to like my daughters, that I don't know what 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.839 I'm doing as a mom sometimes, or that I doubt 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:28.720 my abilities or my self worth or my value. I 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.800 would think as a fifty two year old woman, I 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.559 would have gotten a little bit better at this. 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.160 Yeah, and I think that to me. You know, it's 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.760 a clinician somebody who writes about this work. It is 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.000 the fundamental piece of overcoming it is being able to 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.120 speak about it, being able to share the vulnerabilities, being 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.720 able to talk about it with people that we care about, 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.800 that we are not perfect, that we are flawed, and 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:54.679 that we're working on things. I think it is the 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.760 best message you can send your children that at fifty 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.880 two we're still working on stuff. This idea that by 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:05.560 fifty two I'm perfected is just just not an accomplishable goal. 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:06.880 Would that'd be nice? 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.560 Yeah, I know I'm fifty two too, so yeah, it 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:13.200 would be nice. I'm not there yet either. Yeah, So 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:14.880 I do think like that is one of the things 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.240 we talk about about overcoming it, is being able to 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.959 admit it and being able to feel the embarrassment of 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.760 it and realizing it didn't kill you. You were able to 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.280 do it. And actually, oftentimes I find that it actually 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.360 inspires other people to tell their truth because I often 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.880 talk about my own experiences of imposter which are quite 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.920 embarrassing too, and it often instead of instead of humiliating 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.200 embarrassing me, it makes other people feel like they can 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:40.800 share theirs too. Wait. 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:42.840 Wait, wait, you have imposter syndrome. 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.880 Yes, so, yeah, I've had it probably my whole life. 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.000 Okay, I want to hear what your imposter syndrome voices 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.200 are first, but I also want to know is it 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.760 like that? Is it something that just comes out ab 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:57.920 out of nowhere? Is it something that you've heard your 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.400 whole life and now you're just kind of like really 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.960 recognizing and listening more to Yeah, I mean. 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.520 I think for me, I think because I was being 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.680 trained as a psychologist, I had heard about the term 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.360 in my training and I knew it immediately. I had 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.679 experienced it, but at the time, one of the things 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.120 that I think was detrimental about hearing it from me 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:17.800 was that I didn't hear like what I could do 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.400 to overcome it. I just heard what it was, and 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.320 I thought, Okay, I'm stuck with this the rest of 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.600 my life, and I'm just going to deal with it. 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:26.800 And I think that's why we wrote the books, is 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.679 to help people understand there are actual things you can 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:33.000 do about it. And so for me, growing up, you know, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.400 I often felt like I wasn't good enough. You know. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:38.480 I think, you know, I didn't know this, I think 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.160 growing up, but I think I had learning disabilities that 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.840 were never diagnosed. I think I think I had ADHD 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.480 and it never got noticed. And so as a result, 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.720 I thought I was slow, not very smart, not capable 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.360 to keep up with my peers. And it just evidence 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.559 to self and academics because I wasn't getting the proper 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.400 support I needed academically, and I had to overwork and 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.640 overfunction in order to keep up with my peers. And 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.720 so for me, it's a story of feeling like you know, 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.280 so we talk about and some of the childhood experiences 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.160 are you get labeled as one of one of three things. 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.560 You're either the smart one who doesn't have to work 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.880 really hard and not recognize that, you know, everyone has 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.520 to work hard at something like that's not true. Even 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.320 if you're talented or brilliant, a lot of ways, you 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:22.520 always have to kind of work. It's just a natural 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.800 pret piece of it. Or the hard working one where 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.000 there's somebody identified in the family who's the smart one 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:28.400 or the capable and one, and you're the one who 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.080 has to always grind it out. And we often see 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.280 the correlation between the hard working one and learning difficulties 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.840 or learning disabilities, and then the last one to survive 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.440 or so somebody who was using their achievements to escape 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:44.520 a very difficult or neglectful or abusive home, and that 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.480 the achievements were meant to kind of rise you out 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.080 of that. But the idea is that once you make 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.400 one mistake, you lose everything. And so for me, I 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.120 was the hard working one. I was the one that 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.480 everything had to come from super grindy hard work or 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.280 else I couldn't achieve it. And so that's what I 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:03.440 always thought, Well, that was situation. And so anytime I 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.600 made a mistake or it was I just didn't work 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.920 hard enough. I had to work harder. I'm never going 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:09.560 to be expert. I'm never going to be good enough. 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.280 I'm never going to be like those people, and so 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.959 it just trailed me pretty much my whole early career. 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:21.800 Yeah, when you say there's three three childhood personalities, basically, yeah, 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.760 it kind of all into types. I was definitely never 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.320 labeled as a smart one, so scratch that off. I 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.920 am a hard worker. I've always been a hard worker. 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.120 But I don't know about the survivor one. Is this one? 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.120 Like I always felt like as the baby of the family, 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.240 and I felt like the fortunate one or the favorite one, 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.320 or the like whatever, Like everybody sort of treated me 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.440 a certain way because I was the the hours to 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:49.600 his and the hers. I was the baby, you know. 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.560 Yeah, Yeah, I think it's possible because in essence and 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.440 that baby kind of you know experience. It can be 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.520 like I got this because I was youngest. I didn't 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.480 get this because I deserved it or I was good enough. 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.320 I got it because of this particular status that I 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.400 didn't do anything to deserve. I just happened to be 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.800 born last. So it could be that experience too, of 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.760 feeling like I didn't really deserve this kind of being 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:13.640 put up in this way. 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.400 Yeah, that might be it for me. I mean a 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.960 big part of it because I did have a different 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.880 I do have a different life than where I grew up. 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.240 I do have a different life than my siblings, and 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.640 I've always felt a little guilty about it, Like I've 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.480 always felt like I why me did I? Why am 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.960 I the one that got this life and not that life? 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.680 Yep? Yeah, And I think that can be a real 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:41.560 you know, we talk about that in the first book 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.240 about Survivors Built and this idea that you're surviving something 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.000 or you know, it doesn't have to be something hard, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.000 but you have a different experience, and that different experience 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.160 is full of success that perhaps that the thoughts are 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.320 perhaps you didn't deserve or why did I get it 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.240 and not everyone get it evenly? Or why did I 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.640 get it? And like this is different from my siblings 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:00.840 who had a struggle or whatever may be, And so 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.640 there's a bit of a shame about success. So I 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.280 think oftentimes then it's like burying the success because you 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.160 also don't want to make your siblings feel uncomfortable by 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.840 the success or the especially if they're struggling or have struggled, 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.520 and so the success becomes almost kind of covered in 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.480 somewhat of a shame as well, because it's it's not 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.960 something that feels good to talk about or to share 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.120 because it's someone else got something different. 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.400 Right, And it's such a weird position to be in 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.840 because being in the public, being a public figure, and 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.320 you know, being talked about. I always was like, no, 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.680 I don't want to, don't spotlight me, like, just everybody's equal, 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:41.400 and look at all the hard work and you know, 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.800 just trying to always make everybody around me feel equal, 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:47.800 and I just never wanted to stand out. 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.080 Yes, and that's a really common experience, but it's okay. 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.560 Not until very recently did I have someone tell me 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.920 someone that I love say it's okay to be amazing, 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:03.880 Like it's okay because guess what, we're all amazing in 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:04.719 our own ways. 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.560 Yes. Yeah, I mean that's why we call the book 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.399 to own your greatness and your unstopped bable greatness, because 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:11.879 I do think we do feel a lot of a 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:16.160 shame around our successes because either they're tainted in some way, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.159 or they're imperfect in some way, or they've got some 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.840 baggage connected to them and it affects the way we 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.720 internalize those successes and as a result of that makes 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.200 us feel like we can't carry them with us. 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.119 It's so so interesting, And I back to what you 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.040 said before about like I was saying, I kind of 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.720 feel a little embarrassed or shameful talking about it on 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.080 the podcast, but like, that's one of the things that 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.360 I've learned that's so incredible about having a podcast is 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:45.680 being vulnerable with the audience and the people that love 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.120 me and that are listening and just want to have 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.439 this connection. You know, that vulnerability is what it's like 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:53.919 the fiber, the tissue that connects us all. And I 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.320 that there's so much comfort in that, Yeah, and so 0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:58.600 much healing, I think. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.439 Yeah, and connection and the feeling of like you were 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.800 saying earlier, like community. People feel a sense of community 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.080 with you, and you can be vulnerable in it because 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.320 they also are dealing with it and not able to 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:10.840 share it or not able to share it in these 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:12.000 kinds of public formats. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.640 For sure. Yeah. My mom was always very sort of 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:17.960 like free to be you and me, teaching me a 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.600 lot of different alternative ways of thinking and telling me 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.280 how incredible I was and that I could do anything. 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.320 But I feel like there was also you know, I 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:30.600 didn't have access to this information. Like I often tell 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:34.000 my girls, like, wow, you are so light years ahead 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.080 of where I was when I was your age, just 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.640 because of the knowledge that you have access to and 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.960 like the people that you get to listen to, like 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.480 podcasts like and listening to experts like you. 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:46.560 But I was also going to say, probably also because 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.280 of your parenting, because your parenting gave them the next 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.879 generation of what your mom was trying to do. You 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.840 gave them point two oh or point three oh. That 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.280 that's why they also were enlightened to look in this way. 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:57.560 You know. 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.480 I love that about Yeah, like how your parents tried 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.120 their best. They did their best, and then you learn 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.080 what you learn, and then you go and you try 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.760 to do your best as a parent, and then it 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:14.399 just gets better and better and better hopefully hopefully. Yeah, Okay, 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.280 So it isn't something that I just have experienced in 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:22.480 a work environment or situation. It pops up all the time, 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.480 like I was talking about about when I doubt myself 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.720 as a mother sometimes or even as a wife. You know, 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.720 I think that I am not doing a good enough 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:35.840 job or I have no business even being in a 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.840 relationship sometimes like I'm like, oh, you suck at this. 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.760 But is that just me doubting myself or is that 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.720 imposter syndrome or are those the same things? 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:48.840 Yeah, So I think oftentimes we talk about it in 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.600 a work context because I think the triggers are probably 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.280 just more like consistent in a work environment because of 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.960 trying new things, you're taking risks other people in the environment, 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.120 challenging your performance. Do you think that's where we talk 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:03.920 about it most often? But it does occur in relationships 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.440 because it is it is what we struggle with, right, 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.120 And so these kinds of triggers can happen in relationships 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:14.119 as well, parenting, partnering, all kinds of relationships. And so 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:15.920 I do think one of the things that I see 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:17.679 as a psychologist is when you can work on it 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.439 in one area, I see it ripple effect through all 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.720 the other areas. And so it oftentimes people come to 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:25.679 work on it related to work and then they'll say, oh, 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.120 my gosh, my relationship with my partner is also shifting. 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.160 And the way that I feel in this experienced parenting 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.119 feels different because I do think it's really about shifting 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.320 the way that we see success and the way that 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.800 we see relationships should function, or the way that we 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.080 see that we should be performing, and it really gives us, 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.480 hopefully as we work on it, an idea that like 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.439 everything we like you were saying earlier, everything we do 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:51.720 is individual. Our way of relating to somebody is individual, 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:53.520 and the kind of relationships I'm going to have with 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:55.960 my partner is not going to be something that I've 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.080 seen before. Is then I'm actually working to evolve over time. 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.840 And so I think it's that perspective, like I'm not 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.760 trying to hit some perfection mark, I'm actually just trying 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.359 to be good enough, which is what we work on 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.600