WEBVTT - Infrastructure Week: Build Back Better, the THRIVE Act, and Climate Justice with Kaniela Ing 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.319 Infrastructure Week became sort of a running joke during the 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.920 Trump administration, but President Biden has also talked a lot 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.680 about infrastructure and is unveiling some plans in Pittsburgh today 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:27.120 on that front. Meanwhile, progressives have been organizing around the 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:31.880 Thrive Act. THRIVE stands for Transform, heel and renew by 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.440 investing in a vibrant economy, and it was reintroduced by 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:40.120 Senator Ed Markey and Representative Wie Dingle last month. More 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:44.040 than a hundred actions supporting the Act are taking place today, 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.800 and progressive organizers have already succeeded in convincing the Biden 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.680 administration and Democrats in Congress that they should go big 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:56.279 on green infrastructure. The administration's Build Back Better proposal does that, 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.640 but organizers say the problem is scale. In a nutshell, 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:04.120 this is great, but it needs to be three times bigger. Today, 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:07.559 I'm joined by Kanniella Ng, former Representative for the Great 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.720 State of Hawaii and current Climate Justice campaign director for 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:16.080 People's Action, a grassroots organization that's been mobilizing behind the 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.959 Thrive Act. He's going to walk us through the details 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.520 and what he's hearing from communities on the ground that 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:27.960 conversation coming up right after this quick break. I'm Ami Westervelt, 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:29.360 and this is drilled. 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.240 Maybe we could start with just what you've kind of 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.839 what you've been seeing so far in the Biden administration 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.480 on climate, like what you were sort of expecting, and 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:51.960 how the administration has met those expectations or failed to 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:53.000 meet them exceeded them. 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:58.120 Yeah, I mean, look, I supported Bernie Sanders in the 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.400 primary election, and. 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:02.800 You weren't riding with Biden from the jump. 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.040 Well, I mean, Biden is like a self proclaimed moderate, right, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:16.720 so I when when Bernie lost, I don't think I mean, 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.639 I definitely. If you're tell me that you fast forward 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.760 to March twenty twenty one and we'd be looking at 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:27.160 a four trillion dollar climate like infrastructure package, I think 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:32.880 you're crazy. Yeah, that's a testament like Biden is a really, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:35.519 really good politician. He's been doing this his whole life. 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.040 He's been a state he's been a US Senator in 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.720 his twenties. Not in the fact that he's like a 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.080 champion for the things that will actually help our communities, 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.000 that the things we actually need, but in the fact 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.680 that he figures out where the middle is right in 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:50.959 the base he needs to win and then he moves 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:55.000 his ass there right away. And the fact that look 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.239 when in twenty eighteen, I think when we first talked 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.520 like brand new Congress, justicemocrats, they are running candidates right 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:07.440 are still on seventeen and the big platform pillar was 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.600 like this one trillion dollar infrastructure ask demand and that 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:16.240 was considered radical. The fact that we have Biden, who 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.079 is self proclaimed like a centric, it's like a modern 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.640 in the middle talking a fortunately is a testament to 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.560 the power of the movement and how much we've shifted 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.640 the common sense of the general public. And that you 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.000 know that's due to the Sunrise movement, the youth climate 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:38.200 strikes a long time environmental justice advocates, people making really 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.560 bold bets on elections, like when the youth decided to 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:46.080 support Senator Marquee over Joe Kennedy and like all these 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.720 big bets that really paid off. So yeah, yeah, surprised 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:56.600 by how how aggressive Biden has been in on climate 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.720 is definitely not enough, like the four trillion or I 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.120 think four hundred billion, or someone that's actually going to 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:06.280 go at a green investment like that's not like I 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.560 have a one in four year old and like the 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:11.600 place they grew up in will be underwater by the 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.240 time you're thirty years old. Yeah, we have a real 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.960 project here in Abaddi. That is, it's like forty years 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:22.159 now and it's still not done and attached on working people. 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.200 Like that's gonna keep training money from them and they're 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:27.760 never going to really be like come to me in 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:32.360 the middle class ever, and like it doesn't have to be. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.920 That way, you know, Like yeah, so yeah, but. 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:38.599 It's like up to Biden and to like step it 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.000 up right now in this key moment. 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:42.360 Yeah, I don't want to ask you to read the 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.479 tea leaves too much, but like how much do you 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.720 think how much further left do you think Biden can 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:48.840 actually be pushed? 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.839 I mean, just over the last few months we've i 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.240 mean just the past few weeks. It was supposed to 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.719 be a two trillion dollar package. Now it's three trillion. 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.679 Some articles are saying, for I mean, help Joe Manchin, 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.480 who's supposed to be the one hang up the reason 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.440 why we need to be more careful and moved to 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.960 the right. He went ahead and said like months ago 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:13.040 that he's comfortable with the four trillion dollar package. So 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.039 you know, at this point, there's not a lot of 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.120 excuses left why you shouldn't go bold, Like not only 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.440 is it really popular to go big, but you have 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.400 like a majority of like all your members are on 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.560 line too now, like inside and outside, and it's only 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.719 going like we're doing an action, organizing that action on 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:35.160 Wednesday on March thirty, first time to arrive where we 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.520 already have like one hundred and two people signed up 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:41.640 to host events like direct actions outside members of Congress's 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:46.160 offices and homes, digital events. Like the momentum is only 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:51.440 getting bigger, and like I mean even in Mangin's district, 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:55.520 like the Republican governor Jim Justice being like even he's 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.719 calling for more. He's saying, like we need to err 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.320 on the side of of spend too much not too little. 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.440 You're organizing some actions, Now, what are the asks on 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.200 the table for for this week? 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.000 Yeah, so that the day of action is called time 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:13.480 to Thrive, And we just rolled out to thrive back today. 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.599 We had a press conference. You know, we had folks 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:20.400 from all across the Democratic Party, Ed Markey, Jeff Merkley, 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:26.480 DeBie Dingle. Champions include like Ihan Omar, Jamal Bowman, permid A, 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:32.320 jayapar Rokana, just a lot of good folks and not 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.719 just all on the hard left either, you have like 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.200 Biden allies on this too. So we're showing that you 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.919 can have big solutions and a big ten like you 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:44.480 don't have to choose. So the demand is one trillion 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:48.080 dollars per year over ten years. And the idea is 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:51.479 like this is a huge crisis moment and like the 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:52.919 stars just happened to be a line. We have a 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.360 trifecta in the House, Senate and White House, and we 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:58.039 have a governor who's trying to be I mean, a 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.520 president who's telling everyone he's trying to be the next 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:06.680 FDR and like past New Deal esque legislation, so we 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:08.120 got to take advantage of it, like we have no 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.440 choice but to plan ahead, especially when we know the 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:14.840 other side's going to continue pushing austerity measures and allowing 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:19.280 our communities to suffer. So we're demanding fifteen million people 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.440 getting put back to work through this investment, passing the 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:28.640 pro Act, so enshraining labor rights into the law, and 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:34.040 really advancing like gender, environmental indigenous justice, racial justice, with 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.520 particular attention to like black Indigenous people, so that's the 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:43.120 thrive back then, it's it wasn't easy to find alignment 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.200 on it. It's taken like over a year and a 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.480 half now as a coalition, and it didn't start from 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:52.000 elected officials either. It wasn't just like some some lawyers 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.640 on the hill, just like the room like now, we 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.680 tried that before. In fact, like we spent millions of 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.880 dollars during the healthcare fight in two thousand and eight. 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:03.840 What's different about this app is it's really from the 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.800 grassroots up. We just asked politics to sign up on 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:12.760 it after like after I was already written, and and 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.880 it's like the organized there's an actual campaign behind it, 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.080 a campaign where there's millions of dollars not spent on 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.600 ads or TV or consultants, but on actually field organizing. 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.040 So that's how we're able to organize all these actions 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.560 because the outside game is just one thing we've learned 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:30.679 from two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.760 is that you need you need the field up or libration, 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:36.439 like you need the outside game if you're going to 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.800 win anything, especially anything that's going to be durable. 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.679 Yeah, yeah, it's so it is interesting to me how 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:51.360 quickly people have have shifted their thinking on like, you know, 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.840 what is quote unquote reasonable and and what kinds of 0:08:55.880 --> 0:09:00.920 policies we can we can actually implement. I remember when 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.760 the Greeny Deal was first announced, and so many people 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.320 in the climate space were like, this is asking for 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.079 too many things at once, you know, like if we 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.120 try to get people to think about social justice and 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.200 you know, energy sources at the same time, we're never 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.000 going to get anywhere. And then here we are, you know, 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.000 two years later, I guess two and a half, and 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.760 it sort of would be ridiculous to see a climate 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:32.240 policy proposed without any kind of provisions for labor and 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:36.200 equity and indigenous rates and you know, gender and all 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.680 of these things. So I don't know, I'm curious, like 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.760 if you hear, are you hearing the same kind of 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.560 you know, quote unquote be reasonable pushback that people were 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.559 hearing even as recently as you know, a year or 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:50.040 two ago. 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:52.240 I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.800 The answer is no, not nearly as much as we 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.760 used to. There's still some of that, but yeah, what's 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:03.360 unreasonable is is the fact that, like we still have 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:08.840 people who don't have drinkable water or breathable air, and 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.600 we might not have a livable planet. We don't have 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:16.160 livable jobs for many people that were like heralding as 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:22.400 essential frontline workers and like without essential wages, and even 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.000 now with a vaccine rollout, they don't even have access 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.360 to it because they're not in that you know, that 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:34.760 modicum of power and wealth. So that it's just it's 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:39.360 it's an unreasonable hierarchy that we've created for ourselves. And 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.520 the other thing is like, if you speak to people's needs, like, 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.760 people have diverse needs, so the more needs you speak to, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.960 the more diverse base you can build. So when you're like, 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:51.839 do you expect people to sign on to social justice? 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.040 Like no, do you expect someone who's worried about getting 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:56.880 shot by the cops as soon as they step out 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.280 of their house or even when they're asleep. How are 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.640 you supposed to sell a clean energy sounded to that person, 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.600 you know, without addressing that first native to be. 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.000 Like, we'll take care of you being able to you know, 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.560 not be killed later, but right now, we need to 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:11.520 talk about batteries. 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.000 That's right, if you're a native person, like your family 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:18.040 owned is getting stripped away by colonial forces or you're 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.640 an immigrant and like your family's getting deported and your 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:25.360 kids are getting stripped from your arms. It's unreasonable to 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.560 think that they're going to care about two degrees celsius. 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.800 You know, what they're going to care about is like 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:33.719 they're the direct impacts. And unless you're talking about that 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.640 and making the connections to to like the larger problem, 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:42.240 which is this colonial, extractive economy that we've created. And 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.960 we'll get nowhere. But look, when you focus on it all, 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.760 then you build the literally the biggest movement that we've 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.600 ever seen in the United States history. And that's where 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:51.840 we're are. 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.720 You know, I feel so I spend a lot of 0:11:55.760 --> 0:12:01.720 time on on history, and you know how how like 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.560 the sort of counter movement to the current climate movement 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.720 was built, and it's so broad, you know, like it's 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.920 it's like the right wing does not just concentrate on 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.280 climate denial. It's like, you know, the same people that 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.640 are doing that are also working on you know, quote 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:25.560 unquote school choice and privatizing everything and getting rid of 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.679 indigenous rights and getting rid of tribal sovereignty and all. 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.760 You know, it's like I don't it's it's it's crazy 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:38.800 to me every time I I look at that and 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.360 then compare it to the left, which is like I 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.600 don't know, I don't know if we can like think 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:45.359 about two things at the same. 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.560 Time, maybe maybe there's truth in that, right, Like we 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.160 don't have to we can focus on like one to 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.320 three things, but they don't have to be policies per se, 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.080 Like policies can be a means to an end, which 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:00.920 is a shift of your value said, And that's what 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.680 the right has been doing, right, like like the bootstraps, individualism, 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.040 the free market, like these are all like valisms that 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.360 the policies they propose and tactics even are just like 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.439 meant to bolster like that that frame of thinking, and 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.959 like we that we can do that, like we can 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:21.000 propose all kinds of things and kind of like dissolve 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:25.320 these eradicate these false diconomies like planet versus paycheck, right, 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.640 like you know, jobs are actually good, like climate actually 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:32.360 means tons of jobs, like this idea that where we 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.720 can just move on our own as individuals, like you 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.920 can't keep the lights on in Texas on your own, 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.400 like you can't stop wildfires in California on your own. 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:45.679 I can't I can't fucking raise my two todders at home, 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:50.600 working full time on my own right, right Like that 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.000 that's like no matter what policy you're talking about, if 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.160 if it's like if the crux of it is like 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.320 we're stronger together and if we invest in each other 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.360 in our community, then we can actually you get through 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.920 these crises, then yeah, it's about the policy, but it's 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:06.560 also about like building up like what it means to 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.360 be in community with one another and like enshuraning like 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.040 enough as a human right, like why why do we 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.319 let why is poverty even allowed in a country with billionaires, 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.880 and just kind of focusing in on that, like having 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:25.520 moral clarity and focusing in on that, on the values 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.320 first and like the policy, Yeah, like we want to 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.640 win them and they matter because like people are dying. 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.240 But if you actually like these are values that like 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.400 everyone agrees with, right like freedom to thrive, and if 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.440 you actually knock on doors, which is another thing we're doing, 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.360 like these this deep canvassing program around a climate that 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.160 we're launching this year, you can even win win over 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.760 folks in Trump country as well, I mean in people's 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.080 actually network. We have groups like New Jersey Organizing Project 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.320 who's your action? Like these are groups that purposely go 0:14:55.480 --> 0:15:00.280 out into areas that are considered no goes for like 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.600 the Democratic Party, and they organize people and not only 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.320 did they organize them into their group to take action, 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:12.120 but they've swiftly radicalized them as well. Because it's like 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:19.040 hating the government and blaming the government and like folks 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.280 that are weaker than you in like the social hierarchies 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:27.360 that we created. That's not actually not that far from 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:33.400 like pointing a finger at billionaires instead, and that's true. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.560 Like a couple, like a few, like really open conversations, 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:40.440 and I should say, like I you know, when I 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.680 was twenty two, I won my first election in a 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.640 district that went Republican like forty six out of fifty 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.360 years in statehood in Hawaii, And it was by just 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.760 listening to folks. Like the first rap I knock on 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:53.600 a door, I knocked on twelve thousand dollors. Like the 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:58.680 first rap was, hey, I'm kindie letting I know. It 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.040 feels like the government doesn't all listened to us, and 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.200 that's why I'm at your door. And then I just 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.120 full stop and here what they have to say. So 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.040 issues sometimes I'll just say this is great, and then 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.240 you do that a couple of times, they're gonna listen 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.120 to you, because the fact of the matter is, like 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.960 they might listen to talk radio, but most people just 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:23.440 aren't that political, Like they won't see themselves as political beings. 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.200 And that's in many ways problematic, and it's not the 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.120 case in many other countries with like a more strong 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:34.080 movement history. But like it's also an opportunity for folks 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.360 on the left to like or in like the climate sphere, 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:41.680 to to really change some minds and move people. I 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:43.800 think that youths have been then doing a really good 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.680 job over the last couple years. But we can't rely 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:52.240 on like children to educate parents to go out and 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:56.880 organize like millennials, experis, boomers, everyone. We gotta do it 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:57.720 ourselves as well. 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.520 How do you expect things to go with the Thrive 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.120 Act and the pro Act? What's it looking like right now? 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.600 I mean things are heading the right direction. It's just 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.399 you mentioned this on the top of the call, Like 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.639 the things that are sticking in the Biden administration, it 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.399 isn't necessarily rooted in like traditional aspects of power, like 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.840 in the organizing tradition like a lynch Ki or or 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.719 like Marxism or anything. It's like, you know, someone just 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.800 does a white paper or a one pager and they 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.640 put some really nice branding with like some trendy gradient 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:38.560 behind their mark and it sticks. Yeah, and it just 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.040 picks up. And on one hand, I really welcome this 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.240 shift from like anti intellectualism that we've seen under Trump 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.760 and the Tea Party to like some more thoughtfulness, but 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.800 also like you know, it's like an emperor's it could 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:55.080 be like an emperor has no close thing. Like some 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.280 of these organizations that have Biden's ear don't really have 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.480 a base. I'm not saying you're not doing work, but 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.679 they're more in the advocacy spirit sphere than not necessarily 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:09.120 like powerful on the ground, like with real people and 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.040 you know, in people's action. And I know my philosophy 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:15.520 is like we like working people were the experts of 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:20.200 our own experiences, Like we know, like if you want solutions, 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.959 go to the people closest to the pain, right, And 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.720 I think that's something that we'd like to see a 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:31.000 little bit more of, uh in this administration. And if 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.040 they did focus on like those people on the ground, 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.520 you'd see like a lot more not just rooted, but 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.159 aggressive policy as well, and you'll like you'll be building 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.800 bases that will help past futuralization but also help with 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:45.880 your next election as well. 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.480 Yeah. So does it seem like the people who are 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.240 who do kind of have his ear are aligned with 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.520 the kinds of things that you're talking about. 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:00.000 Yeah, Actually, I think we're progressives have been really strategic 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.480 about was right when they saw the writing on the wall, 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.879 and actually right after the the primary, we didn't mess around, 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:12.760 like we knew that Trump was evil and like we 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.159 have to do everything we can to beat them, so 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.000 we didn't like play around, like we threw down for Biden, 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:23.040 and then we reminded Biden that he needed us to win, 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.520 and very quickly we pushed to get our champions in 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.080 his administration. And you see a lot of folks that, yeah, 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.680 really good people that were part of the transition team, 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:39.560 like you know, Barshonny from Sunrise Movement Protest was part 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:44.320 of the transition team, and that in turn shaped some 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:47.879 really positive policy. The fact that Deb Halen is like 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:53.159 the first Native you know that, I think that's a 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.240 big deal and that wouldn't have happened without like the 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.280 progressives getting in. So you know, there's a lot of 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:03.520 good folks in administration, and you know it's part of 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:07.600 it is getting good people around him. But again, he's 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.679 a really good politician that has his finger on the 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.360 pulse of where the middle is of the needs to win. 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:19.240 So more importantly is shifting that middle the political common 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.280 sense of the general public. And we we've been It's 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.160 really clear that we've been doing that very well over 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.400 the last few years. To see this shift from one 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.360 trillion being too much to even Joe Matchin talking about 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.800 four trillion. I think that's like the proof is brilliant. 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.000 How much are people connecting their kind of day to 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.840 day stuff with climate And is that even something that 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.120 that is that even like a conversation that that you're 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.040 pushing with people on the ground, or is it like, 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:50.280 let's figure out, you know, people's most urgent needs first. 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.840 Now, I mean, one thing that Biden has been good 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.720 at in terms of his messaging that really came from 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.600 the movement is this focus that climate action means jobs. 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:03.480 And right now, in this moment where you have fifteen 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:06.280 million people unemployed, a lot of these jobs aren't coming back. 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.359 It's a prime moment for tech billionaires who are the 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:14.800 big winners by the way of this them to automate it, like. 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.479 Yes, and so same with the oil industry. They're covering 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.040 up so much automation shit by saying, oh, we lost 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:23.920 jobs from COVID, but they were losing them already from automation. 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.479 Sorry, go ahead, No, that's right. And this idea that 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:28.720 like a Green New Deal like costs jobs like no, 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.840 the jobs are disappearing now because of the private sector, 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:34.120 and in fact you need the public sector to get 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:38.400 the jobs back. It's it's completely opposite of what right 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:44.359 wing pundits and austerity, you know. Yeah, the longers are 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.439 pushing and like right now, like I look out the window, 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:51.000 there's potholes to be filled, there's bridges to be repaired, 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.879 trees to be planted, Like, there's so much work that 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:58.640 we need to do that the free market just won't 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:02.760 provide jobs for because our need it's all wrapped in 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.920 the profit nexus. But if we actually create jobs based 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.200 on what we actually need for a liverapoole planet, for 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.000 you know, clean water, for infrastructure that's up the speed 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.679 literally with the rest of the world, then it's a 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.360 win win win and I think that's the message. That's 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.159 a real take home message because you can find projects 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:28.040 like you have abandoned malls because of COVID everywhere and 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.920 just reimagining what that could be for your community. That's 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:33.440 that's one way to bring home, thrive and the green 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:37.120 New Deal for everyone, no matter where you live, left 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:38.480 and right, black and white, whatever. 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.840 But also I feel like there has been I think 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:46.719 a shift for people in understanding that government jobs are 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:48.879 also jobs. Like this is something that I think the 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.240 right wing did really well for a long time, was 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:54.720 convinced people that somehow working for the government was like 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:55.720 not a real job. 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:58.639 Yeah. I mean when I was twenty one out of college, 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:00.960 the only job I could get was selling and copy machines. 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:03.679 You want to talk about, not a real job like 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:07.879 the private sector that the like the middle managers that 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.480 make people feel important, like you really really need the 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.400 people that produce it, and like the capitalists like everybody 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:16.480 else in the middle those layers and layers and layers 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:19.280 in these corporations are only there for colonial reasons. They're 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:23.480 only there to make one company take up more land, 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:27.000 to take up space like you could have, you know, 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:32.359