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Speaker 1: Infrastructure Week became sort of a running joke during the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration, but President Biden has also talked a lot

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Speaker 1: about infrastructure and is unveiling some plans in Pittsburgh today

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Speaker 1: on that front. Meanwhile, progressives have been organizing around the

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Speaker 1: Thrive Act. THRIVE stands for Transform, heel and renew by

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Speaker 1: investing in a vibrant economy, and it was reintroduced by

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Speaker 1: Senator Ed Markey and Representative Wie Dingle last month. More

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Speaker 1: than a hundred actions supporting the Act are taking place today,

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Speaker 1: and progressive organizers have already succeeded in convincing the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration and Democrats in Congress that they should go big

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Speaker 1: on green infrastructure. The administration's Build Back Better proposal does that,

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Speaker 1: but organizers say the problem is scale. In a nutshell,

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Speaker 1: this is great, but it needs to be three times bigger. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by Kanniella Ng, former Representative for the Great

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Speaker 1: State of Hawaii and current Climate Justice campaign director for

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Speaker 1: People's Action, a grassroots organization that's been mobilizing behind the

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Speaker 1: Thrive Act. He's going to walk us through the details

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Speaker 1: and what he's hearing from communities on the ground that

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Speaker 1: conversation coming up right after this quick break. I'm Ami Westervelt,

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Speaker 1: and this is drilled.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we could start with just what you've kind of

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Speaker 2: what you've been seeing so far in the Biden administration

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Speaker 2: on climate, like what you were sort of expecting, and

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Speaker 2: how the administration has met those expectations or failed to

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Speaker 2: meet them exceeded them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, I supported Bernie Sanders in the

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Speaker 3: primary election, and.

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Speaker 2: You weren't riding with Biden from the jump.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, Biden is like a self proclaimed moderate, right,

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Speaker 3: so I when when Bernie lost, I don't think I mean,

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Speaker 3: I definitely. If you're tell me that you fast forward

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Speaker 3: to March twenty twenty one and we'd be looking at

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Speaker 3: a four trillion dollar climate like infrastructure package, I think

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Speaker 3: you're crazy. Yeah, that's a testament like Biden is a really,

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Speaker 3: really good politician. He's been doing this his whole life.

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Speaker 3: He's been a state he's been a US Senator in

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Speaker 3: his twenties. Not in the fact that he's like a

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Speaker 3: champion for the things that will actually help our communities,

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Speaker 3: that the things we actually need, but in the fact

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Speaker 3: that he figures out where the middle is right in

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Speaker 3: the base he needs to win and then he moves

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Speaker 3: his ass there right away. And the fact that look

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Speaker 3: when in twenty eighteen, I think when we first talked

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Speaker 3: like brand new Congress, justicemocrats, they are running candidates right

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Speaker 3: are still on seventeen and the big platform pillar was

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Speaker 3: like this one trillion dollar infrastructure ask demand and that

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Speaker 3: was considered radical. The fact that we have Biden, who

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Speaker 3: is self proclaimed like a centric, it's like a modern

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Speaker 3: in the middle talking a fortunately is a testament to

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Speaker 3: the power of the movement and how much we've shifted

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Speaker 3: the common sense of the general public. And that you

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Speaker 3: know that's due to the Sunrise movement, the youth climate

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Speaker 3: strikes a long time environmental justice advocates, people making really

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Speaker 3: bold bets on elections, like when the youth decided to

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Speaker 3: support Senator Marquee over Joe Kennedy and like all these

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Speaker 3: big bets that really paid off. So yeah, yeah, surprised

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Speaker 3: by how how aggressive Biden has been in on climate

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Speaker 3: is definitely not enough, like the four trillion or I

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Speaker 3: think four hundred billion, or someone that's actually going to

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Speaker 3: go at a green investment like that's not like I

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Speaker 3: have a one in four year old and like the

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Speaker 3: place they grew up in will be underwater by the

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Speaker 3: time you're thirty years old. Yeah, we have a real

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Speaker 3: project here in Abaddi. That is, it's like forty years

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Speaker 3: now and it's still not done and attached on working people.

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Speaker 3: Like that's gonna keep training money from them and they're

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Speaker 3: never going to really be like come to me in

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Speaker 3: the middle class ever, and like it doesn't have to be.

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Speaker 2: That way, you know, Like yeah, so yeah, but.

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Speaker 3: It's like up to Biden and to like step it

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Speaker 3: up right now in this key moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to ask you to read the

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Speaker 2: tea leaves too much, but like how much do you

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Speaker 2: think how much further left do you think Biden can

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Speaker 2: actually be pushed?

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Speaker 3: I mean, just over the last few months we've i

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Speaker 3: mean just the past few weeks. It was supposed to

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Speaker 3: be a two trillion dollar package. Now it's three trillion.

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Speaker 3: Some articles are saying, for I mean, help Joe Manchin,

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Speaker 3: who's supposed to be the one hang up the reason

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Speaker 3: why we need to be more careful and moved to

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Speaker 3: the right. He went ahead and said like months ago

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Speaker 3: that he's comfortable with the four trillion dollar package. So

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Speaker 3: you know, at this point, there's not a lot of

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Speaker 3: excuses left why you shouldn't go bold, Like not only

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Speaker 3: is it really popular to go big, but you have

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Speaker 3: like a majority of like all your members are on

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Speaker 3: line too now, like inside and outside, and it's only

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Speaker 3: going like we're doing an action, organizing that action on

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Speaker 3: Wednesday on March thirty, first time to arrive where we

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Speaker 3: already have like one hundred and two people signed up

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Speaker 3: to host events like direct actions outside members of Congress's

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Speaker 3: offices and homes, digital events. Like the momentum is only

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Speaker 3: getting bigger, and like I mean even in Mangin's district,

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Speaker 3: like the Republican governor Jim Justice being like even he's

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Speaker 3: calling for more. He's saying, like we need to err

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Speaker 3: on the side of of spend too much not too little.

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Speaker 2: You're organizing some actions, Now, what are the asks on

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Speaker 2: the table for for this week?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so that the day of action is called time

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Speaker 3: to Thrive, And we just rolled out to thrive back today.

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Speaker 3: We had a press conference. You know, we had folks

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Speaker 3: from all across the Democratic Party, Ed Markey, Jeff Merkley,

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Speaker 3: DeBie Dingle. Champions include like Ihan Omar, Jamal Bowman, permid A,

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Speaker 3: jayapar Rokana, just a lot of good folks and not

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Speaker 3: just all on the hard left either, you have like

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Speaker 3: Biden allies on this too. So we're showing that you

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Speaker 3: can have big solutions and a big ten like you

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Speaker 3: don't have to choose. So the demand is one trillion

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Speaker 3: dollars per year over ten years. And the idea is

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Speaker 3: like this is a huge crisis moment and like the

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Speaker 3: stars just happened to be a line. We have a

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Speaker 3: trifecta in the House, Senate and White House, and we

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Speaker 3: have a governor who's trying to be I mean, a

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Speaker 3: president who's telling everyone he's trying to be the next

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Speaker 3: FDR and like past New Deal esque legislation, so we

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Speaker 3: got to take advantage of it, like we have no

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Speaker 3: choice but to plan ahead, especially when we know the

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Speaker 3: other side's going to continue pushing austerity measures and allowing

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Speaker 3: our communities to suffer. So we're demanding fifteen million people

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Speaker 3: getting put back to work through this investment, passing the

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Speaker 3: pro Act, so enshraining labor rights into the law, and

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Speaker 3: really advancing like gender, environmental indigenous justice, racial justice, with

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Speaker 3: particular attention to like black Indigenous people, so that's the

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Speaker 3: thrive back then, it's it wasn't easy to find alignment

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Speaker 3: on it. It's taken like over a year and a

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Speaker 3: half now as a coalition, and it didn't start from

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Speaker 3: elected officials either. It wasn't just like some some lawyers

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Speaker 3: on the hill, just like the room like now, we

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Speaker 3: tried that before. In fact, like we spent millions of

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Speaker 3: dollars during the healthcare fight in two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 3: What's different about this app is it's really from the

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Speaker 3: grassroots up. We just asked politics to sign up on

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Speaker 3: it after like after I was already written, and and

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Speaker 3: it's like the organized there's an actual campaign behind it,

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Speaker 3: a campaign where there's millions of dollars not spent on

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Speaker 3: ads or TV or consultants, but on actually field organizing.

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Speaker 3: So that's how we're able to organize all these actions

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Speaker 3: because the outside game is just one thing we've learned

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Speaker 3: from two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine

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Speaker 3: is that you need you need the field up or libration,

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Speaker 3: like you need the outside game if you're going to

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Speaker 3: win anything, especially anything that's going to be durable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's so it is interesting to me how

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Speaker 2: quickly people have have shifted their thinking on like, you know,

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Speaker 2: what is quote unquote reasonable and and what kinds of

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Speaker 2: policies we can we can actually implement. I remember when

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Speaker 2: the Greeny Deal was first announced, and so many people

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Speaker 2: in the climate space were like, this is asking for

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Speaker 2: too many things at once, you know, like if we

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Speaker 2: try to get people to think about social justice and

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Speaker 2: you know, energy sources at the same time, we're never

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Speaker 2: going to get anywhere. And then here we are, you know,

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Speaker 2: two years later, I guess two and a half, and

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Speaker 2: it sort of would be ridiculous to see a climate

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Speaker 2: policy proposed without any kind of provisions for labor and

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Speaker 2: equity and indigenous rates and you know, gender and all

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Speaker 2: of these things. So I don't know, I'm curious, like

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Speaker 2: if you hear, are you hearing the same kind of

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Speaker 2: you know, quote unquote be reasonable pushback that people were

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Speaker 2: hearing even as recently as you know, a year or

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Speaker 2: two ago.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head.

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Speaker 3: The answer is no, not nearly as much as we

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Speaker 3: used to. There's still some of that, but yeah, what's

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Speaker 3: unreasonable is is the fact that, like we still have

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Speaker 3: people who don't have drinkable water or breathable air, and

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Speaker 3: we might not have a livable planet. We don't have

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Speaker 3: livable jobs for many people that were like heralding as

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Speaker 3: essential frontline workers and like without essential wages, and even

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Speaker 3: now with a vaccine rollout, they don't even have access

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Speaker 3: to it because they're not in that you know, that

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Speaker 3: modicum of power and wealth. So that it's just it's

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Speaker 3: it's an unreasonable hierarchy that we've created for ourselves. And

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Speaker 3: the other thing is like, if you speak to people's needs, like,

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Speaker 3: people have diverse needs, so the more needs you speak to,

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Speaker 3: the more diverse base you can build. So when you're like,

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Speaker 3: do you expect people to sign on to social justice?

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Speaker 3: Like no, do you expect someone who's worried about getting

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Speaker 3: shot by the cops as soon as they step out

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Speaker 3: of their house or even when they're asleep. How are

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Speaker 3: you supposed to sell a clean energy sounded to that person,

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Speaker 3: you know, without addressing that first native to be.

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Speaker 2: Like, we'll take care of you being able to you know,

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Speaker 2: not be killed later, but right now, we need to

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Speaker 2: talk about batteries.

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Speaker 3: That's right, if you're a native person, like your family

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Speaker 3: owned is getting stripped away by colonial forces or you're

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Speaker 3: an immigrant and like your family's getting deported and your

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Speaker 3: kids are getting stripped from your arms. It's unreasonable to

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Speaker 3: think that they're going to care about two degrees celsius.

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Speaker 3: You know, what they're going to care about is like

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Speaker 3: they're the direct impacts. And unless you're talking about that

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Speaker 3: and making the connections to to like the larger problem,

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Speaker 3: which is this colonial, extractive economy that we've created. And

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Speaker 3: we'll get nowhere. But look, when you focus on it all,

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Speaker 3: then you build the literally the biggest movement that we've

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Speaker 3: ever seen in the United States history. And that's where

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Speaker 3: we're are.

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Speaker 2: You know, I feel so I spend a lot of

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Speaker 2: time on on history, and you know how how like

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Speaker 2: the sort of counter movement to the current climate movement

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Speaker 2: was built, and it's so broad, you know, like it's

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Speaker 2: it's like the right wing does not just concentrate on

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Speaker 2: climate denial. It's like, you know, the same people that

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Speaker 2: are doing that are also working on you know, quote

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Speaker 2: unquote school choice and privatizing everything and getting rid of

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Speaker 2: indigenous rights and getting rid of tribal sovereignty and all.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's like I don't it's it's it's crazy

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Speaker 2: to me every time I I look at that and

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Speaker 2: then compare it to the left, which is like I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know if we can like think

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Speaker 2: about two things at the same.

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Speaker 3: Time, maybe maybe there's truth in that, right, Like we

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Speaker 3: don't have to we can focus on like one to

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Speaker 3: three things, but they don't have to be policies per se,

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Speaker 3: Like policies can be a means to an end, which

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Speaker 3: is a shift of your value said, And that's what

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Speaker 3: the right has been doing, right, like like the bootstraps, individualism,

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Speaker 3: the free market, like these are all like valisms that

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Speaker 3: the policies they propose and tactics even are just like

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Speaker 3: meant to bolster like that that frame of thinking, and

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Speaker 3: like we that we can do that, like we can

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Speaker 3: propose all kinds of things and kind of like dissolve

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Speaker 3: these eradicate these false diconomies like planet versus paycheck, right,

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Speaker 3: like you know, jobs are actually good, like climate actually

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Speaker 3: means tons of jobs, like this idea that where we

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Speaker 3: can just move on our own as individuals, like you

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Speaker 3: can't keep the lights on in Texas on your own,

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Speaker 3: like you can't stop wildfires in California on your own.

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Speaker 3: I can't I can't fucking raise my two todders at home,

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Speaker 3: working full time on my own right, right Like that

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Speaker 3: that's like no matter what policy you're talking about, if

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Speaker 3: if it's like if the crux of it is like

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Speaker 3: we're stronger together and if we invest in each other

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Speaker 3: in our community, then we can actually you get through

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Speaker 3: these crises, then yeah, it's about the policy, but it's

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Speaker 3: also about like building up like what it means to

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Speaker 3: be in community with one another and like enshuraning like

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Speaker 3: enough as a human right, like why why do we

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Speaker 3: let why is poverty even allowed in a country with billionaires,

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Speaker 3: and just kind of focusing in on that, like having

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Speaker 3: moral clarity and focusing in on that, on the values

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Speaker 3: first and like the policy, Yeah, like we want to

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Speaker 3: win them and they matter because like people are dying.

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Speaker 3: But if you actually like these are values that like

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Speaker 3: everyone agrees with, right like freedom to thrive, and if

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Speaker 3: you actually knock on doors, which is another thing we're doing,

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Speaker 3: like these this deep canvassing program around a climate that

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Speaker 3: we're launching this year, you can even win win over

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Speaker 3: folks in Trump country as well, I mean in people's

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Speaker 3: actually network. We have groups like New Jersey Organizing Project

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Speaker 3: who's your action? Like these are groups that purposely go

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Speaker 3: out into areas that are considered no goes for like

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Speaker 3: the Democratic Party, and they organize people and not only

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Speaker 3: did they organize them into their group to take action,

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Speaker 3: but they've swiftly radicalized them as well. Because it's like

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Speaker 3: hating the government and blaming the government and like folks

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Speaker 3: that are weaker than you in like the social hierarchies

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Speaker 3: that we created. That's not actually not that far from

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Speaker 3: like pointing a finger at billionaires instead, and that's true.

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Speaker 3: Like a couple, like a few, like really open conversations,

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Speaker 3: and I should say, like I you know, when I

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Speaker 3: was twenty two, I won my first election in a

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Speaker 3: district that went Republican like forty six out of fifty

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Speaker 3: years in statehood in Hawaii, And it was by just

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Speaker 3: listening to folks. Like the first rap I knock on

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Speaker 3: a door, I knocked on twelve thousand dollors. Like the

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Speaker 3: first rap was, hey, I'm kindie letting I know. It

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Speaker 3: feels like the government doesn't all listened to us, and

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Speaker 3: that's why I'm at your door. And then I just

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Speaker 3: full stop and here what they have to say. So

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Speaker 3: issues sometimes I'll just say this is great, and then

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Speaker 3: you do that a couple of times, they're gonna listen

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Speaker 3: to you, because the fact of the matter is, like

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Speaker 3: they might listen to talk radio, but most people just

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Speaker 3: aren't that political, Like they won't see themselves as political beings.

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Speaker 3: And that's in many ways problematic, and it's not the

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Speaker 3: case in many other countries with like a more strong

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Speaker 3: movement history. But like it's also an opportunity for folks

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Speaker 3: on the left to like or in like the climate sphere,

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Speaker 3: to to really change some minds and move people. I

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Speaker 3: think that youths have been then doing a really good

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Speaker 3: job over the last couple years. But we can't rely

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Speaker 3: on like children to educate parents to go out and

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Speaker 3: organize like millennials, experis, boomers, everyone. We gotta do it

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Speaker 3: ourselves as well.

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Speaker 2: How do you expect things to go with the Thrive

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Speaker 2: Act and the pro Act? What's it looking like right now?

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Speaker 3: I mean things are heading the right direction. It's just

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Speaker 3: you mentioned this on the top of the call, Like

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Speaker 3: the things that are sticking in the Biden administration, it

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Speaker 3: isn't necessarily rooted in like traditional aspects of power, like

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Speaker 3: in the organizing tradition like a lynch Ki or or

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Speaker 3: like Marxism or anything. It's like, you know, someone just

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Speaker 3: does a white paper or a one pager and they

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Speaker 3: put some really nice branding with like some trendy gradient

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Speaker 3: behind their mark and it sticks. Yeah, and it just

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Speaker 3: picks up. And on one hand, I really welcome this

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Speaker 3: shift from like anti intellectualism that we've seen under Trump

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Speaker 3: and the Tea Party to like some more thoughtfulness, but

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Speaker 3: also like you know, it's like an emperor's it could

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Speaker 3: be like an emperor has no close thing. Like some

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Speaker 3: of these organizations that have Biden's ear don't really have

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Speaker 3: a base. I'm not saying you're not doing work, but

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Speaker 3: they're more in the advocacy spirit sphere than not necessarily

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Speaker 3: like powerful on the ground, like with real people and

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Speaker 3: you know, in people's action. And I know my philosophy

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Speaker 3: is like we like working people were the experts of

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Speaker 3: our own experiences, Like we know, like if you want solutions,

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Speaker 3: go to the people closest to the pain, right, And

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Speaker 3: I think that's something that we'd like to see a

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Speaker 3: little bit more of, uh in this administration. And if

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Speaker 3: they did focus on like those people on the ground,

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Speaker 3: you'd see like a lot more not just rooted, but

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Speaker 3: aggressive policy as well, and you'll like you'll be building

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Speaker 3: bases that will help past futuralization but also help with

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Speaker 3: your next election as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So does it seem like the people who are

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Speaker 2: who do kind of have his ear are aligned with

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Speaker 2: the kinds of things that you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Actually, I think we're progressives have been really strategic

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Speaker 3: about was right when they saw the writing on the wall,

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Speaker 3: and actually right after the the primary, we didn't mess around,

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Speaker 3: like we knew that Trump was evil and like we

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Speaker 3: have to do everything we can to beat them, so

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Speaker 3: we didn't like play around, like we threw down for Biden,

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Speaker 3: and then we reminded Biden that he needed us to win,

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Speaker 3: and very quickly we pushed to get our champions in

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Speaker 3: his administration. And you see a lot of folks that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: really good people that were part of the transition team,

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Speaker 3: like you know, Barshonny from Sunrise Movement Protest was part

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Speaker 3: of the transition team, and that in turn shaped some

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Speaker 3: really positive policy. The fact that Deb Halen is like

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Speaker 3: the first Native you know that, I think that's a

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Speaker 3: big deal and that wouldn't have happened without like the

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Speaker 3: progressives getting in. So you know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: good folks in administration, and you know it's part of

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Speaker 3: it is getting good people around him. But again, he's

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Speaker 3: a really good politician that has his finger on the

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Speaker 3: pulse of where the middle is of the needs to win.

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Speaker 3: So more importantly is shifting that middle the political common

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Speaker 3: sense of the general public. And we we've been It's

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Speaker 3: really clear that we've been doing that very well over

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Speaker 3: the last few years. To see this shift from one

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Speaker 3: trillion being too much to even Joe Matchin talking about

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Speaker 3: four trillion. I think that's like the proof is brilliant.

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Speaker 2: How much are people connecting their kind of day to

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Speaker 2: day stuff with climate And is that even something that

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Speaker 2: that is that even like a conversation that that you're

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Speaker 2: pushing with people on the ground, or is it like,

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Speaker 2: let's figure out, you know, people's most urgent needs first.

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Speaker 3: Now, I mean, one thing that Biden has been good

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Speaker 3: at in terms of his messaging that really came from

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Speaker 3: the movement is this focus that climate action means jobs.

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Speaker 3: And right now, in this moment where you have fifteen

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Speaker 3: million people unemployed, a lot of these jobs aren't coming back.

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Speaker 3: It's a prime moment for tech billionaires who are the

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Speaker 3: big winners by the way of this them to automate it, like.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and so same with the oil industry. They're covering

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Speaker 2: up so much automation shit by saying, oh, we lost

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Speaker 2: jobs from COVID, but they were losing them already from automation.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, go ahead, No, that's right. And this idea that

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Speaker 3: like a Green New Deal like costs jobs like no,

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Speaker 3: the jobs are disappearing now because of the private sector,

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Speaker 3: and in fact you need the public sector to get

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Speaker 3: the jobs back. It's it's completely opposite of what right

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Speaker 3: wing pundits and austerity, you know. Yeah, the longers are

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Speaker 3: pushing and like right now, like I look out the window,

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Speaker 3: there's potholes to be filled, there's bridges to be repaired,

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Speaker 3: trees to be planted, Like, there's so much work that

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Speaker 3: we need to do that the free market just won't

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Speaker 3: provide jobs for because our need it's all wrapped in

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Speaker 3: the profit nexus. But if we actually create jobs based

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Speaker 3: on what we actually need for a liverapoole planet, for

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Speaker 3: you know, clean water, for infrastructure that's up the speed

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Speaker 3: literally with the rest of the world, then it's a

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Speaker 3: win win win and I think that's the message. That's

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Speaker 3: a real take home message because you can find projects

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Speaker 3: like you have abandoned malls because of COVID everywhere and

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Speaker 3: just reimagining what that could be for your community. That's

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Speaker 3: that's one way to bring home, thrive and the green

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Speaker 3: New Deal for everyone, no matter where you live, left

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Speaker 3: and right, black and white, whatever.

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Speaker 2: But also I feel like there has been I think

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Speaker 2: a shift for people in understanding that government jobs are

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Speaker 2: also jobs. Like this is something that I think the

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Speaker 2: right wing did really well for a long time, was

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Speaker 2: convinced people that somehow working for the government was like

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Speaker 2: not a real job.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean when I was twenty one out of college,

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Speaker 3: the only job I could get was selling and copy machines.

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Speaker 3: You want to talk about, not a real job like

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Speaker 3: the private sector that the like the middle managers that

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Speaker 3: make people feel important, like you really really need the

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Speaker 3: people that produce it, and like the capitalists like everybody

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Speaker 3: else in the middle those layers and layers and layers

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Speaker 3: in these corporations are only there for colonial reasons. They're

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Speaker 3: only there to make one company take up more land,

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Speaker 3: to take up space like you could have, you know,

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Speaker 3: So it's just that's not real work, real work building bridges,

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Speaker 3: planting trees, carrying for your neighbors. Like and that's the

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Speaker 3: other thing that's really like key in this Thrive agenda,

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Speaker 3: and like the Green New Deal bills that that will

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Speaker 3: be coming out is like we recognize that if you

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Speaker 3: just created a bunch of jobs, traditional like infrastructure jobs,

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Speaker 3: it will be jobs for white men. So we got

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Speaker 3: to be really deliberate that we have like gender justice,

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Speaker 3: racial justice, and everything else in the front of all

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Speaker 3: the policy that we create. Because even when you're talking

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Speaker 3: about unions, like there are like people of color that've

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Speaker 3: been left out of union's work for generations now, so

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Speaker 3: we need to hear that we addressed that first.

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Speaker 2: Again, because I'm a history nerd, I just it like

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Speaker 2: blows my mind when I think about how the unions were,

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Speaker 2: like you know, the original enemies of capitalists and in

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Speaker 2: such a short amount of time have become you know,

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Speaker 2: teammates with them in a lot of ways. So, like,

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Speaker 2: are you seeing some shifts some shifts in union leadership

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Speaker 2: and sort of how unions are thinking about things now too?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've like I'm I really believe in

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Speaker 3: in the value of unions like historically, but also now yeah,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, I think there's there's some like not every

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Speaker 3: boss of any organization or any or of any organization,

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Speaker 3: not every leader is perfect, But like, I don't think

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Speaker 3: that's the core of the problem is like you know,

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Speaker 3: corrupted leadership or anything like that. It's the fact that

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Speaker 3: like they, like you talked about transitional jobs programs and

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Speaker 3: this idea of a just transition and it's always been

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Speaker 3: like this QTT line that climate advocates, usually predominantly white,

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Speaker 3: usually predominantly upper class, highly educated white folks, would be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: we'll have a transition program and if you're working, teach

433
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: them to code. Yeah, I might see. If I was

434
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 3: a union boss, I'd be like, get the f out

435
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 3: of here, like, all, dare you like show me it?

436
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 3: Like so, I think that's that's sort of where a

437
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 3: lot of this has come from. It's like we weren't

438
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 3: able to show them real benefits, and when we did,

439
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 3: it was like this these really half like half measures,

440
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: like liberal half measures, but this idea that we can

441
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: invest now where you can you can just walk into

442
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 3: a public like an employment office, your local employment office,

443
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 3: and there'll be a job waiting for you. Where you're

444
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 3: not gonna have like environment You're gonna have your neighbors

445
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: yelling at you, like environmental advocates or animal rights like

446
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 3: you're gonna be cool, and you're gonna be You're gonna

447
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 3: be people from rural areas and urban areas doing projects

448
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 3: with you, like people across generations, across races. Like. That's

449
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 3: how you create real unity. It's it's not just public jobs.

450
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 3: Isn't just good for your paycheck, it's not just good

451
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 3: for the planet, but it's good for our politics. It's

452
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 3: gonna get get people working together and really building something positive.

453
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: So it's something real, and that's how I think we're

454
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 3: seeing like unions take it a little bit more seriously

455
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: because frankly, we just haven't given them anything real up

456
00:26:42,920 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: until now.

457
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 4: Hm.

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00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: That's it for this time. Big thanks to corniella Ing

459
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: for joining me. You can check out some of the

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00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: links in the show notes for more information on the

461
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: Thrive Act and People's Action. Again, we're at work on

462
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: a new narrative season coming up soon, so make sure

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466
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467
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Speaker 1: access to exclusive merchandise, and coming soon, some bonus content.

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Speaker 1: so check that out. Patreon dot com slash drilled. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening and we'll see you next time.