Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: The NBA Finals are here. This is your last chance
Speaker 2: to bet on the NBA until next season, and DraftKings
Speaker 2: Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NBA is
Speaker 2: pulling out all the stops to make this a finals.
Speaker 2: To remember, one team will be crown champ and the
Speaker 2: other will be lost to history. Who you got winning
Speaker 2: at all? Put your hoops expertise to the test. All
Speaker 2: season long, DraftKings has been the go to spot for
Speaker 2: NBA player props and that doesn't stop now. Who's going
Speaker 2: to carry their team to the chip? Try placing a
Speaker 2: bet on your personal MVP to drop thirty, forty or
Speaker 2: maybe even over fifty. Ready to place your own bet,
Speaker 2: download the DraftKings sports Book app, lock in your bets
Speaker 2: and finish the season as a winner. Here's something special
Speaker 2: for first timers. New DraftKings customers. Bet five dollars to
Speaker 2: get three hundred dollars in bonus bets if your bet wins.
Speaker 2: Don't miss your last chance to bet on the NBA
Speaker 2: this season. Download the DraftKings sports Book app and use
Speaker 2: code hoops that's hoop. That's code hoops for new customers
Speaker 2: to get three hundred dollars in bonus bets. If your
Speaker 2: bet wins. When you bet five bucks only on DraftKings,
Speaker 2: the crown is yours. Gambling problem called one hundred gambler
Speaker 2: In New York call eight seven seven eight hope and why,
Speaker 2: or text hope and why to four six seven three
Speaker 2: sixty nine and Connecticut help is available for problem gambling
Speaker 2: call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven.
Speaker 3: Or visit CCPG dot org.
Speaker 2: Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort
Speaker 2: in Kansas twenty one plus. Age and eligibility varies by
Speaker 2: jurisdiction void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward
Speaker 2: minimum minus five hundred odds required. Bonus bets expire one
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance. For additional terms
Speaker 2: and responsible gaming resources, see dkang dot co slash audio.
Speaker 2: All right, well to hoops to night here at the volume.
Speaker 2: Happy Monday, everybody, If all the guys had a great weekend.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: I texted Kevin O'Connor last week to see if we
Speaker 2: can get them on to talk some NBA finals, and
Speaker 2: in the text message, I said, fingers crossed for one
Speaker 2: to one, and here we are one one as the
Speaker 2: Pacers did some pacer things on Thursday last week to
Speaker 2: get us into a one to one matchup. Lots of
Speaker 2: interesting stuff to get into. What I want to do
Speaker 2: today is just kind of zoom out from the first
Speaker 2: two games and talk about some of the biggest dynamics
Speaker 2: that are swinging this series one way or another. Kevin's
Speaker 2: been someone that I've admired for a long time from Afar.
Speaker 2: I've been lucky to come on his show a couple
Speaker 2: of times. First appearance here on Hoops Tonight. One of
Speaker 2: my favorite people cover in the game, Kevin, how are
Speaker 2: you man?
Speaker 4: I'm doing excellent. Jason, It's an honor to be on
Speaker 4: your show. What you've built is so awesome to get
Speaker 4: that YouTube plaque rewarded with that with all the hard
Speaker 4: work you guys and your team have. Donna. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: it's cool to be on your show. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 2: I'm like irrationally excited about the But I wonder if
Speaker 2: that's just like our generation and just like the different
Speaker 2: types of things that we get excited about. Like it's
Speaker 2: so funny. It's just like like you know, a little
Speaker 2: foam plaque, but it's something that.
Speaker 4: It's a physical reward. It's better than just like an email.
Speaker 4: It's like something physical that you can feel in touch.
Speaker 4: It's awesome. But they still do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, we were talking before the show. I wanted
Speaker 2: to quickly ask you, Uh so, obviously you do a
Speaker 2: lot of draft work in addition to covering the league
Speaker 2: at large, and this year's draft is just so much
Speaker 2: more talent heavy at the top, And so do you
Speaker 2: actually enjoy drafts like this year more in terms of
Speaker 2: like the workflow or do you enjoy drafts like last
Speaker 2: year where you don't have the obvious stuff at the top,
Speaker 2: but like there's so much to get into with like
Speaker 2: the high variance guys down the list. What has that
Speaker 2: been like for you?
Speaker 4: I mean I think for me, like I enjoy it
Speaker 4: all equally in terms of like my side of things,
Speaker 4: because it's there's stars in every draft, Like it's just
Speaker 4: like there's always gonna be guys that end up being stars.
Speaker 4: So how do you find those guys who are It's
Speaker 4: always fun debating who are the guys you like more
Speaker 4: than other people? Who are the people that you like
Speaker 4: les than others? And why it's like last night, I
Speaker 4: watched like every single Dylan Harper miss and I tracked
Speaker 4: where he missed. I tracked like that he missed long, short, left, right, backboard,
Speaker 4: Like I like doing that stuff. That's fun to do
Speaker 4: for me, regardless of the quality of the draft. But
Speaker 4: it is more fun when more people care about the
Speaker 4: drafts and more people care about the draft, and when
Speaker 4: there's prizes in the draft, and Cooper Flag being a
Speaker 4: prize at the top, Dylan Harper a lot of people
Speaker 4: do consider a prize. I'm not quite there with him
Speaker 4: being some generational guard. I think he's really good. But
Speaker 4: I think next year, in twenty twenty six, is really
Speaker 4: gonna be probably the most fun draft class that I've
Speaker 4: ever covered. I've been doing draft coverge since twenty thirteen.
Speaker 4: My first Draft guide was in twenty fourteen. But like,
Speaker 4: next year, man, like there's like three or four number
Speaker 4: one pick quality guys, Cam Boozer at Duke, Darren Peterson Hansas,
Speaker 4: and then A J. D. Bonsa, a native of Brockton, Massachusetts,
Speaker 4: where I'm also from, going to BYU. At least those three,
Speaker 4: and so like, next year, I think it's gonna be
Speaker 4: insane with all three of those guys in college basketball,
Speaker 4: all playing for big schools as well BYU big time
Speaker 4: on the rise. So I think next year it could
Speaker 4: be like the peak of my draft covers in all
Speaker 4: the years I've been doing it. But it's fun for
Speaker 4: me personally every single year.
Speaker 2: No, I totally agree, Like there's I find joy in
Speaker 2: doing projects that don't perform super well too, just because
Speaker 2: we love our jobs, and there's and there's you know.
Speaker 4: Joy you're telling me, Dylan Harper missed missus being tracked
Speaker 4: isn't gonna perform well.
Speaker 2: The funny thing though, is like like it's I was
Speaker 2: so pleased, like we we ended up in a pretty
Speaker 2: big number after game one of the of this series,
Speaker 2: and like that just made me so happy because I
Speaker 2: was like, first of all, it's like thunder Pacers. You know,
Speaker 2: it's this like relatively small market matchup, and it's ultimately
Speaker 2: our job is fun, people care, and so I totally
Speaker 2: get that, Like it's like you can find joy in
Speaker 2: the minutia and we're never gonna stop doing that stuff.
Speaker 2: But there's no doubt that when the people are invested,
Speaker 2: it gets to be a ton of fun. Kevin does
Speaker 2: great work covering the draft. Make sure you guys follow
Speaker 2: him on Twitter and is your draft guide out yet?
Speaker 3: Officially?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Draft guide is on Yahoo Sports, so you can
Speaker 4: find it just you know, it should be pinned in
Speaker 4: my profile on social media. But just search Kevin O'Connor
Speaker 4: NBA Draft Guide twenty twenty five whoever your favorite search
Speaker 4: engine is and it'll pop up.
Speaker 2: So moving to the series, the number one dynamic that
Speaker 2: I have found to be most fascinating between the first
Speaker 2: two games is shake Gilles Alexander in his overall approach.
Speaker 2: Was there anything that stood out to you in particular
Speaker 2: from the first two games in just the way that
Speaker 2: Shay approached generating shots for his team.
Speaker 4: You know, I felt like he was playing a bit
Speaker 4: more to his speed in game two, But I I
Speaker 4: kind of disagreed with you know, Doris Burke on that
Speaker 4: broadcast said Shade was being over aggressive during Game one.
Speaker 4: I disagreed with that. I felt like the game required
Speaker 4: it from him. His teammates shot twenty five of sixty
Speaker 4: eight in game one thirty seven percent, like pretty horrible.
Speaker 4: I felt like they needed thirty shots from Shae in
Speaker 4: game one, whereas in game two, obviously he got to
Speaker 4: the line a little bit more. He took only twenty
Speaker 4: one shots, not thirty shots, but his teammates also shot
Speaker 4: significantly better, So I felt like he gave, okay see
Speaker 4: what they needed in game one. But I do feel
Speaker 4: like he came out in game two with a bit
Speaker 4: more pace on his end of things, on top of
Speaker 4: some of the tactical changes, you know, logo pick and
Speaker 4: rolls further out, you know, more post ups and all that.
Speaker 4: Like I, I was okay with his Game one performance though,
Speaker 4: so I didn't really subscribe to some of the criticism
Speaker 4: of him in game one.
Speaker 2: This is awesome because we disagree, so that will make
Speaker 2: for a fun little debate here off the top.
Speaker 3: So, like I, I.
Speaker 2: Agree in general with the idea that there are times,
Speaker 2: especially for a scoring archetype, and I would argue that
Speaker 2: the playmaking archetypes over the years, the Jokiches, the Lebron's,
Speaker 2: the Halliburton types, there are situations where they kind of
Speaker 2: need to be more aggressive than they are because their
Speaker 2: teammates aren't super comfortable.
Speaker 3: I did think that Shay.
Speaker 2: Played a little bit of a role in his team
Speaker 2: going out of rhythm in the first game, just simply
Speaker 2: with like I'll give you an example, there was a
Speaker 2: play where in the it was in like the I
Speaker 2: think it was in the late first quarter last night,
Speaker 2: where he's in a ball screen and he's attacking Thomas
Speaker 2: Bryant and Hartenstein just wipes out Aaron E. Smith on
Speaker 2: the screen and he comes downhill and he has Thomas
Speaker 2: Bryant kind of like a drop coverage, and he's got
Speaker 2: a pretty good look at like a little pull up
Speaker 2: seventeen footer around the right elbow area, but TJ McConnell's
Speaker 2: kind of sagging in off of Chet off of the
Speaker 2: left wing, and he's sitting behind Thomas Bryant just right
Speaker 2: off of that like left handed drive, so it's like
Speaker 2: he's not there bothering the pull up shot, but he's
Speaker 2: making it so that the drive he couldn't like, couldn't
Speaker 2: like snake to pick and roll to try to get
Speaker 2: back over to his left hand or anything like that,
Speaker 2: and instead he just throws a little pitch out to
Speaker 2: Chet Holmgren on the left wing and TJ McConnell closes out,
Speaker 2: he pump fakes, he runs past him, and he ends
Speaker 2: up hitting a three. And it felt to me like
Speaker 2: that was a little that was a pull up jump
Speaker 2: shot that both him and Jay Dub were just taking
Speaker 2: in Game one, that like kind of fifteen to seventeen
Speaker 2: on the shot clock, type of like decent shot that
Speaker 2: we know he can make. And I remember in the moment,
Speaker 2: you know what's so interesting, Kevin, I remember in the
Speaker 2: moment watching Game one, being like, like, oh, like Shay's
Speaker 2: attacking the finals like he is. He is not letting himself,
Speaker 2: you know, shrink or feel uncomfortable. He's like, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: find a way to get comfortable out here by taking
Speaker 2: these shots that I know that I can make. And
Speaker 2: I I thought that just in general, his approach was
Speaker 2: a little bit more geared towards hunting advantages in Game
Speaker 2: two versus hunting his shot. There were some pretty significant
Speaker 2: differences in the numbers. They had a ninety six offensive
Speaker 2: rating in the half court in Game one. They had
Speaker 2: a one to sixteen half court offensive rating in Game two. Now, obviously,
Speaker 2: as we know, part of that is just guys knocking
Speaker 2: down shots, but they also generated more. They generated twenty
Speaker 2: three unguarded catch and tchoo jump shots in Game two,
Speaker 2: just fifteen in Game one. As a team, they threw
Speaker 2: two hundred and thirty two passes in game two compared
Speaker 2: to two hundred and seven passes in game one. I
Speaker 2: did think he in general just kind of like let
Speaker 2: the game come to him a little bit more, which
Speaker 2: allowed him to again, this stuff is a lot in
Speaker 2: a lot of cases like super supernatural in terms of discussion,
Speaker 2: when we're talking about rhythm and flow, and it's like
Speaker 2: it's very difficult to quantify these things, and it's always
Speaker 2: going to be a certain amount of like subjectivity, and
Speaker 2: it's up for debate. But I did think that Shay
Speaker 2: just in general, made a bit a little bit more
Speaker 2: of an effort to kind of keep the ball popping around,
Speaker 2: some quicker decisions, some of those reads earlier in the clock,
Speaker 2: taking some of those tougher mid range jump shots in
Speaker 2: later clock situations, or as a counter sprinkling in aggression,
Speaker 2: just to keep the defense honest. But like, at the
Speaker 2: same time, I did think his floor game was a
Speaker 2: little bit better. That said, I do agree with you
Speaker 2: that there the young guys were more comfortable in this game,
Speaker 2: and that certainly helps. And a lot of the times,
Speaker 2: you know, these guys will react based on what their
Speaker 2: personality traits are, like when Shae sees his teammates struggling,
Speaker 2: he's gonna think. He's gonna think shoot the ball, right,
Speaker 2: just like when Tyree sees his teammate struggling, he's going
Speaker 2: to confront the issue by trying to pass the ball.
Speaker 2: More So, like I guess my take is just that
Speaker 2: I thought that he kind of was more of an
Speaker 2: active participant in the team's rhythm in Game two.
Speaker 4: I think I think, like what you're hitting on, like
Speaker 4: the supernatural aspect, you know, the feel, and like it's
Speaker 4: these things like you can't understand by just looking at
Speaker 4: the numbers, right, because if you look at the numbers,
Speaker 4: which I have. Game one, he made thirty eight passes,
Speaker 4: his teammates shot two of eleven on the assist opportunities.
Speaker 4: In Game two, he made thirty nine passes. His teammates
Speaker 4: shot eight of fifteen on assist opportunities. So like his
Speaker 4: teammates shot better off of his passes in game two,
Speaker 4: they shot horribly in game one, whether he was passing
Speaker 4: the ball or somebody else is passing them the ball,
Speaker 4: or they were self created shots. But to your point,
Speaker 4: like that's where I think you and I agree, is
Speaker 4: that I did feel he was just more comfortable in
Speaker 4: Game two, he was just more comfortable. Whether that was
Speaker 4: due to his approach in the game to your point,
Speaker 4: coming out early looking for his teammates. Most of his
Speaker 4: passes in Game one came in the second, third, and
Speaker 4: fourth quarters, not as much the first quarter, setting a
Speaker 4: tone for his team looking to pass, or whether it
Speaker 4: was due to game planning as well, because okay, so
Speaker 4: he was sitting screens further out more logo logo pick
Speaker 4: and rolls where you know you have Indiana going over
Speaker 4: screens in those situations where I feel like maybe you
Speaker 4: want to go under when it's that far out, and
Speaker 4: you have him posting up a handful of times as well,
Speaker 4: Like I feel, that's where I feel the biggest difference
Speaker 4: is that I thought in Game one there there wasn't
Speaker 4: as much variety as there was in Game two from
Speaker 4: Shay because, like I mentioned this on my podcast last night,
Speaker 4: I had Adam Adas from All NBA on it, like
Speaker 4: him and I were talking about Adam's the best, and
Speaker 4: like him and I were talking about SGA as well,
Speaker 4: and like I mentioned to him, you know, there's this
Speaker 4: one play in the late mid or late third quarter
Speaker 4: where SGA split a pick and roll. Hartenstein was on
Speaker 4: a short roll. He found him immediately because he was
Speaker 4: you know, Sga got pressured. He split the pick and
Speaker 4: roll than Hartenstein found Cruz on a cup. But then
Speaker 4: the next play, Sga got posted up on the left
Speaker 4: block and okay, See cleared out everything for him. He
Speaker 4: drew attention, kicked it out. Okay, so he swung it
Speaker 4: around the horn and found Cruso in the right corner
Speaker 4: four three. So it's like, I feel, okay, See put
Speaker 4: him in different spots on the floor more often, and
Speaker 4: maybe these things are all connected, where like him looking
Speaker 4: for the pass more is in part due to some
Speaker 4: game planning here with putting him in different areas of
Speaker 4: the floor versus Indiana kind of knowing what Indiana was
Speaker 4: doing in game one. As Dagnau called it after Game one,
Speaker 4: it was a feel out game and maybe that's where
Speaker 4: Sga felt it out and he just felt overall more
Speaker 4: comfortable and the game planning was better and the teammates
Speaker 4: just made more shots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I did the same thing.
Speaker 2: I was like, I was like, I'm feeling this strong
Speaker 2: kind of vibe that Shay's hunting his opportunities more as
Speaker 2: a passer in game two. So I wanted to check
Speaker 2: the numbers, and I saw the same stuff you did
Speaker 2: in terms of like the passing numbers being the same,
Speaker 2: and my rationalization was with that was exactly what you said,
Speaker 2: which is if in game one, I think he took
Speaker 2: eleven shots in the first quarter, I actually thought Shaye
Speaker 2: made all of the kickout reads in the fourth quarter
Speaker 2: of that game. Like Shae was fantastic in the fourth
Speaker 2: quarter of that game, getting dribble penetration through those guard
Speaker 2: guard action or hitting the guy slipping out of the action,
Speaker 2: and like the pacers were throwing sometimes two three dudes
Speaker 2: helping at the basket, and he was making the kickout passes.
Speaker 2: He did make those passes. The difference to me was
Speaker 2: in game two he started the game that way. And
Speaker 2: I've just always been a believer that if you invest
Speaker 2: in rhythm basically early in the game, if you target
Speaker 2: these opportunities so guys feel comfortable, there's just more of
Speaker 2: an opportunity for them to be comfortable throughout the game.
Speaker 2: That said, love a good disagreement, love a good argument.
Speaker 2: I love the other stuff you hit on, Like I
Speaker 2: thought the left block post ups were like a huge
Speaker 2: development in game two. It just it puts the ball
Speaker 2: in Shae's dominant hand, so it's really easy for him
Speaker 2: to pass out of that. And like when he gets
Speaker 2: into single coverage, he was able to draw fouls or
Speaker 2: score against nemhart And and Mathrin, but at the same
Speaker 2: time he was able to use it as just a
Speaker 2: easy vehicle with which to get the defense in rotation
Speaker 2: the part I want to zoom in on. And I
Speaker 2: also just thought I thought you mentioned this too in
Speaker 2: your bit, the like just in general, like it felt
Speaker 2: like they were more willing to have Shay sit off
Speaker 2: ball and let other people run action, which was another part.
Speaker 2: Like there was a play in the late second quarter
Speaker 2: or late first quarter where like it's like Shae's just
Speaker 2: literally standing off ball. Why Isaiah Joe's running action with Hartenstein,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like they were just a
Speaker 2: little bit more willing to let other people get involved
Speaker 2: in the offense. And I thought that that was contagious
Speaker 2: and that it just kind of flowed down the roster
Speaker 2: as far as the pick and roll coverages go. This
Speaker 2: is where I think it gets fascinating. So whenever we're
Speaker 2: having these discussions we have to lead with saying.
Speaker 3: There is no good way to guard Shay.
Speaker 2: He's just incredible, because like any alternative that we're gonna
Speaker 2: throw out here is gonna come with its own set
Speaker 2: of issues. But one of the things that stood out
Speaker 2: to me in Game one, I thought in the second
Speaker 2: half they were a little bit softer in their pick
Speaker 2: and roll coverages, which is why Shay started to get
Speaker 2: some of his stuff in drop coverage. But everything at
Speaker 2: the level in this series I think has been brutal
Speaker 2: for Indiana, and the two problems I should say the
Speaker 2: three problems that they keep having is one Shae rejecting screens.
Speaker 2: So when they bring up whoever it is, whether it's
Speaker 2: Topen or Turner or Thomas Bryant, that guy's setting up
Speaker 2: to get on the side of the screen that they're
Speaker 2: expecting Shaye to go. And then when he rejects the screen,
Speaker 2: there's nobody there four on three. Or they'll throw that
Speaker 2: hard head or switch with that guy and he'll quickly
Speaker 2: split that now they're gone four on three, Or the
Speaker 2: dude will slip out of it and he throws the
Speaker 2: pass over the top and it's four on three. So
Speaker 2: to Shay's credit, he has butchered this coverage with his
Speaker 2: ability to generate the four on threes. Do you think
Speaker 2: Indiana needs to consider pivoting to a different coverage to
Speaker 2: try to have a better chance to contain Shay?
Speaker 4: Is this why we started to see a little bit
Speaker 4: of zone? You think? Is that possible Indiana sprinkling that
Speaker 4: in a little bit in the middle of the third
Speaker 4: quarter because Indiana they don't really run zone at all,
Speaker 4: But then again, neither the Minnesota neither the Denver and
Speaker 4: then Denver like a third of their possessions in the
Speaker 4: half court or zone defense. I think from Minnesota it
Speaker 4: was like ten percent of their possessions in the half
Speaker 4: court or zone defense against Oklahoma City. With Indiana entering
Speaker 4: this series, I believe the number was they had three
Speaker 4: total possessions of playing zone. Those are like sideline out
Speaker 4: of bounds plays when they would do that, but after
Speaker 4: makes in the third quarter for a short stretch they're
Speaker 4: playing zone. Is that why you think possibly because of
Speaker 4: the issues with regardless of whatever the type of covers
Speaker 4: are using against shape pick and rolls, that that could
Speaker 4: be the answer.
Speaker 1: Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world
Speaker 1: of sports. Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range
Speaker 1: of programming that goes beyond the game, from action pack
Speaker 1: live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to hard
Speaker 1: hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams.
Speaker 1: Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that
Speaker 1: makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive
Speaker 1: sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to vicetv dot
Speaker 1: com to find your cable channel.
Speaker 2: So I think that in general, having a plan for penetration.
Speaker 2: Penetration is the move. Now that could be zone because
Speaker 2: if we look at it, so like what are the alternatives.
Speaker 2: So if they're showing high whether that's a hedge or
Speaker 2: it's a ball screen coverage with their with their bigs,
Speaker 2: you're giving up these four on threes because you have
Speaker 2: two guys that are out way out by the perimeter, right.
Speaker 2: So like in theory, you could try like more of
Speaker 2: a softer switch, you could try a deeper drop. There's
Speaker 2: all these like different things you can try to me
Speaker 2: the softer switch, the deeper drop. In particular, at the
Speaker 2: very least you're going five on four instead of four
Speaker 2: on three, meaning like as he comes off the screen,
Speaker 2: you have one of those two guys who was originally
Speaker 2: assigned to Shay at least back trying to help facilitate
Speaker 2: your plan for dealing with him. Zone is another way
Speaker 2: to do that. The thing that scares me with zone
Speaker 2: and we did see last night both teams score against
Speaker 2: the zone in the brief situations where.
Speaker 3: We saw it.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, I think, Okay, so he's been really
Speaker 2: good against zone in this postseason too, And like that's
Speaker 2: the thing is like we're talking about a really good
Speaker 2: basketball team that quite frankly, like for all the stuff
Speaker 2: that we've talked about Oklahoma City being young and inexperienced
Speaker 2: over the years, every puzzle that's been placed in front
Speaker 2: of them in this postseason run, they've eventually sold. They've
Speaker 2: had their issues for brief stretches, but they've eventually solved.
Speaker 2: It's even like Game one. Like Game one, it's the
Speaker 2: super aggressive help on drives and they have a rough
Speaker 2: offensive night and they solve it one night later.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So it's like at a certain point, I don't know
Speaker 2: that there is an easy answer, but at this point,
Speaker 2: this is what I keep coming back to if you're
Speaker 2: gonna get beat up there anyway, like if you're gonna
Speaker 2: get dribble penetration, might as well have it function as
Speaker 2: a one on one rather than a one on two,
Speaker 2: meaning like have that fourth defender back instead of having
Speaker 2: these like two man down situations where Shay just toasted
Speaker 2: someone off the dribble and now Nie Smith and Turner
Speaker 2: are standing up at the top of the key trying
Speaker 2: to rotate out of it. So, like I guess, I
Speaker 2: guess it comes down to just whether it's zone, whether
Speaker 2: it's a deeper drop functioning in a way where you
Speaker 2: keep that fourth defender in a position to help and rotate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that's gonna be the puzzle for
Speaker 4: Indiana really in this series. And as you said, Okay,
Speaker 4: see's a good team. Maybe they're an all time team,
Speaker 4: Like they're sixty eight win regular season team, They've had
Speaker 4: an unbelievable postseason. They very well, this might be the
Speaker 4: start of something special. We'll see how the series continues.
Speaker 4: But that's the issue for Indiana in this entire series,
Speaker 4: as it was for Minnesota, as it was for Denver.
Speaker 4: And don't forget they destroyed Memphis as well in the
Speaker 4: first round. But like, there just may not be real
Speaker 4: answers for Oklahoma City with their amount of guys who
Speaker 4: can generate offense off the dribble, because it doesn't need
Speaker 4: to just be SGA. You said it earlier. Other guys
Speaker 4: are getting opportunities to create in Game two for the thunder,
Speaker 4: But every guy on that floor can do something with
Speaker 4: the ball in their hands, or they can do something
Speaker 4: in motion, like even Caruso, he wasn't just hitting like
Speaker 4: standstill threes in game two, like some of them were
Speaker 4: off of movement, and that's Alex Caruso. And then you
Speaker 4: have Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren who had terrible game ones.
Speaker 4: Jdubb a bit better, I thought. In game two. Chet
Speaker 4: Holmgren was awesome after a really rough start for him
Speaker 4: in Game two, he was great the rest of the game.
Speaker 4: But like every guy on that roster, even Aaron Wiggins,
Speaker 4: can do something off the dribble. So it's like, even
Speaker 4: if you do, even if you contain SGA, there's somebody
Speaker 4: else on this Okay see team or regardless of the
Speaker 4: lineup Dagnault has out there, they can do something with
Speaker 4: the ball in their hands. Even Isaiah Hartenstein on the
Speaker 4: short roll can dribble once or twice to get to
Speaker 4: the cup or make the smart pass. That that's what
Speaker 4: makes them really, I think, an impossible puzzle to solve,
Speaker 4: and sometimes I know it's like very like simple to
Speaker 4: say that that's where the zone I think you force
Speaker 4: them to become a three point shooting team, that their
Speaker 4: frequency of threes goes over fifty percent when you're when
Speaker 4: you play zone defense against them, you're just gambling that
Speaker 4: they have an off shooting night when you do that,
Speaker 4: because you're you're giving up open threes. You're just hoping
Speaker 4: and praying that they have a poor shooting night. So
Speaker 4: that's what I think Minnesota and Denver, especially the Nuggets
Speaker 4: kind of gambled on doing because Okay, see he's gonna
Speaker 4: shred you either either way. But I do wonder if
Speaker 4: that's what we'll see from Indiana because everything you're you
Speaker 4: said Jason about you know, man coverages or pick and
Speaker 4: roll coverages, like there's no there's no real answer. I
Speaker 4: can't stop thunder and Shae.
Speaker 2: Like Shay is not the most vertical poppy athlete that
Speaker 2: you'll ever watch, but his ability to change direction and
Speaker 2: like go from stopped to full speed is truly remarkable,
Speaker 2: and like because that's the thing, Like people don't realize,
Speaker 2: like they're not sending these dudes up to the level
Speaker 2: because they're worried about the pull up three. That's not
Speaker 2: what they're doing, Like that Shae's not a good enough
Speaker 2: pull up three point shooter to justify that. They're doing
Speaker 2: that to try to stop him from getting ahead of
Speaker 2: steam and it's just not working. And like the other
Speaker 2: problem is is you could sit back all you want,
Speaker 2: but he's just gonna go at that dude full speed
Speaker 2: and probably draw fouls or end up getting around him anyway.
Speaker 2: Like he's just a huge pain. And like the same
Speaker 2: sort of at the level coverages, Jay dub was torching
Speaker 2: too like a chet attacking off the bounce in this
Speaker 2: game did a lot of a lot more work off
Speaker 2: the bounce. I thought he was unbelievable defensively. Last night too,
Speaker 2: I was watching the film, like his switching and like
Speaker 2: he was getting stops on Haliburton, he was getting stops
Speaker 2: on McConnell, he was getting stops on Matthin, He's getting
Speaker 2: like it was he is so so so good. It's
Speaker 2: crazy to me my guess is that what Rick Carlisle
Speaker 2: will do is going to Game three, maybe with something
Speaker 2: involving a little bit softer at the level stuff. But
Speaker 2: I don't think he'll go to zone right away. Where
Speaker 2: I think he would go to zone is when the
Speaker 2: shit hits the fan in Indy, so like, yes, like
Speaker 2: when they find whether it's in game three or game four,
Speaker 2: they find themselves down ten twelve points, I think that's
Speaker 2: when he'll do it. And to your point, it changes
Speaker 2: the game. It takes them away from being a dribble
Speaker 2: drive and make read type of team to more of
Speaker 2: like a processing and shooting team, which again is even
Speaker 2: though they're awesome, is not the thing that they're like
Speaker 2: most renowned for, so really really fascinating stuff on that
Speaker 2: end of the floor.
Speaker 4: I remember, Jason, I just looked it up. Fifty four
Speaker 4: percent of their shot attempts are threes against zone coverage
Speaker 4: in the in the playoffs, and then it's thirty nine
Speaker 4: percent of their shots or threes against man defense. So
Speaker 4: they're taking a ton of threes either way. But like
Speaker 4: going over half of your shot attempts from three, that
Speaker 4: that that it's really like, that's you don't have a
Speaker 4: lot of choice against the Thunder, right, Like, the thunder
Speaker 4: are gonna do what they want to do. But if
Speaker 4: you do play zone, that's where you can influence the
Speaker 4: types of shots that they're taking. So I think you're
Speaker 4: right though, like when shit hits the fan, if it
Speaker 4: happens in Game three or four Indiana, like Carlisle like
Speaker 4: they wants won the finals the Dallas Mavericks against the
Speaker 4: Miami heat The difference is Dallas played a ton of
Speaker 4: zone all year long and then really you know, puzzled
Speaker 4: Lebron and Wade and Bosh in the finals against that
Speaker 4: Heatles team. But he did use it in the finals before,
Speaker 4: and like, this is a guy who's used zoned throughout
Speaker 4: his years as an NBA head coach, but not here
Speaker 4: in Indiana. So I wonder if that's a card he's uh,
Speaker 4: he's he's holding on to for the right for the
Speaker 4: right specific moment when that time comes in this series,
Speaker 4: and I'd be surprised if we don't see it in
Speaker 4: a continuous amount of time in a game at some point.
Speaker 2: That's a really good stat like an easy way to
Speaker 2: basically for Oklahoma City to settling for the majority of
Speaker 2: their shots from behind the three three point line is
Speaker 2: to go zone, and the stuff about not practicing zone
Speaker 2: in the regular season is a really interesting point too.
Speaker 2: The one thing that could work to Carlisle's advantage there
Speaker 2: is just the long schedule and just the extra off
Speaker 2: days to try to implement stuff.
Speaker 3: But yeah, go game till Wednesday.
Speaker 4: What are we gonna do? Just draft stuff. That's all
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be doing for two days.
Speaker 2: So Richard Jefferson and many others were upset last night
Speaker 2: with this was me in the same way that you
Speaker 2: were disagreeing with the criticism of Shay, I was disagreeing
Speaker 2: with some of the criticism of Tiree's not so much
Speaker 2: to me, It's just less criticism. It's more just reality
Speaker 2: in terms of who he is as a basketball player.
Speaker 4: But what do you mean comment from Richard Jefferson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly the two d which, by the way, he
Speaker 2: said in game one two, for the.
Speaker 4: Record, well he did, but minutes before she hit the
Speaker 4: amazing game winner. I'm sorry, I haliburned a amazing game winner.
Speaker 3: How did how did you like?
Speaker 2: What was your overall like response slash take to the
Speaker 2: stuff surrounding Tyres and his aggression and all of that storyline.
Speaker 4: I mean, I feel like I'm team Richard Jefferson here
Speaker 4: and I have been all playoffs long that I think
Speaker 4: with Halliburn, I know he has some of his limitations
Speaker 4: as a as a creator, generating space against especially against
Speaker 4: like the elite defense of the Thunder, But like dude,
Speaker 4: sometimes I think he's just too passive earlier early in
Speaker 4: these games when we see what he can do when
Speaker 4: he's aggressive late in games, like he twelve points on
Speaker 4: five of six in the fourth quarter alone, five points
Speaker 4: on two of seven through the first three quarters. I
Speaker 4: just don't think Anyana has any chance of winning this series.
Speaker 4: If Halliburton is taking only seven shots through the first
Speaker 4: three quarters of games, it's just they're not gonna win
Speaker 4: the series. Halliburton needs to be looking for a shot
Speaker 4: more early, or the Pacers need to design more actions
Speaker 4: to get him looks early in game speeds. He's two
Speaker 4: elite of a shooter off the catch, too elite of
Speaker 4: a shooter off the dribble, whether it's from three or
Speaker 4: from mid range. And in this series, I looked up
Speaker 4: the shot distribution numbers this morning because like, he hasn't
Speaker 4: gotten to the rim at all. Seven percent of his
Speaker 4: shots in the series against Oklahoma City are in the
Speaker 4: restricted area, twenty two percent in every other series in
Speaker 4: the playoffs, so almost a quarter of his shots were
Speaker 4: in the restricted area up until the finals, and now
Speaker 4: it's only seven percent. They're forcing him into more paint shots,
Speaker 4: more mid range shots, and even from three, he's not
Speaker 4: taking as many of those, so on self created chances,
Speaker 4: this is the only self created chances. So with Halliburton,
Speaker 4: if he's not getting into the basket, he's a near
Speaker 4: fifty guy on mid range jumpers. I feel like, in
Speaker 4: the same way that you said SGA took to many
Speaker 4: of those at times in Game one, Halliburt is not
Speaker 4: taking enough of those. In my opinion, he is an
Speaker 4: elite mid range shooter, but he's all about rim in threes.
Speaker 4: To me, I think that's an area that he can
Speaker 4: exploit that he doesn't enough because he's sticking to what
Speaker 4: he does at an elite level. But sometimes I think
Speaker 4: you need to take, you know, the B minus shot
Speaker 4: and not just always look for the eight plus play
Speaker 4: because sometimes the B minus player the B play is
Speaker 4: the best thing you're going to get in a half
Speaker 4: court possession against the thunder. So I do think he
Speaker 4: needs to be more aggressive early in games. I personally
Speaker 4: think he should be taking twenty shots a game, not
Speaker 4: fourteen to fifteen shots a game. And that's rerooted in
Speaker 4: my belief of who he can be as a scorer
Speaker 4: and who he can be as a creator despite some
Speaker 4: of the athletic limitations agains against these elite defenders he's
Speaker 4: facing every single possession.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what's so interesting is last night I
Speaker 2: was more like aggressive on this and then the guy
Speaker 2: who kind of brought me back to earth was actually Jackson,
Speaker 2: And because my initial thought was like I'm watching him
Speaker 2: like because I'm watching him like trying to shake free
Speaker 2: of these guards, and he's really not for the most part.
Speaker 2: And so I was like, Okay, like there's a reality
Speaker 2: to the fact that Tyresee is not the type of
Speaker 2: athletic scoring guard that can just consist like that can
Speaker 2: pull Kyrie Irving footwork out of his bag and like
Speaker 2: knock down these crazy shots. But what Jackson said to
Speaker 2: me at the start of the mail bag last night
Speaker 2: really got me thinking. He was like he was like,
Speaker 2: why doesn't he just take a few more of the
Speaker 2: questionable like like to what you're saying, the B minus
Speaker 2: shots at the very least to try to maintain some
Speaker 2: more rhythm and it could free up some more of
Speaker 2: those opportunities were like, the defense is reacting to him
Speaker 2: more because he's being more aggressive. And so then I
Speaker 2: kind of approached my rewatch this morning with that same
Speaker 2: kind of ideology in mind, and He's right, Jackson's all right.
Speaker 2: There were specifically some drop coverage looks, because what stood
Speaker 2: out to me last night is I was like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: the shots that he was getting in the fourth quarter
Speaker 2: were drop coverage looks like they ran a stack, pick
Speaker 2: and roll that Oklahoma City didn't switch appropriately, and he
Speaker 2: got a dunk. He shot a floater against drop, he
Speaker 2: shot a little right elbow jumper against drop. The toughest
Speaker 2: one he hit was that one coming off of the
Speaker 2: ball screen on the right wing that Jay Dubbed contested
Speaker 2: very well and he hit like that three. But the
Speaker 2: point is is he caught a rhythm. He caught a
Speaker 2: rhythm and then he made a tough shot, which is
Speaker 2: what happens when you take shots. You catch a rhythm
Speaker 2: and then you can start making some tough shots. And
Speaker 2: so I kind of have come back more towards the
Speaker 2: middle in the sense that, like, I don't think Tyrese
Speaker 2: can solve this series by just like putting up thirty
Speaker 2: five points a game, but he absolutely does need to
Speaker 2: be somewhat more aggressive, And to me, the example is
Speaker 2: just taking more of those drop coverage looks when they're there.
Speaker 2: So for instance, there was one where he came and
Speaker 2: actually really resulted in an illegal screen on Myles Turner.
Speaker 2: But there was a play where he came off of
Speaker 2: a ball screen at the top of the key in
Speaker 2: like the late second quarter where he came off and
Speaker 2: Hartenstein was six or seven feet back, but he was
Speaker 2: still over and Turner was rolling, and he threw the
Speaker 2: pocket pass instead of just taking the pull up three
Speaker 2: that was there. And my thing is like Indiana actually
Speaker 2: did quite a bit of damage on action like that
Speaker 2: in Game one on offensive rebounds, So it's like at
Speaker 2: the just put it up and Turner's crashing with the
Speaker 2: Hartenstein up not at the level but containing you on
Speaker 2: and he's probably gonna step up in contest, Turner's got
Speaker 2: a good shot in an offensive rebound there. So, like
Speaker 2: I just think in general, there's a few there are
Speaker 2: definitely more opportunities for Tyrese to look to take some
Speaker 2: of those coverage beating shots. And at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, like you have to be an active participant
Speaker 2: in your team survival. You can't be a passive participant.
Speaker 2: And so to me, I'm kind of occupying that middle
Speaker 2: ground where I think he absolutely can be more aggressive.
Speaker 2: I just also don't think he can be you know,
Speaker 2: thirty five point per game guy.
Speaker 4: If that makes sense, it's it's understandable. I mean, like
Speaker 4: the stat I shared seven percent of his self created
Speaker 4: shots or in the restricted area, that that is not
Speaker 4: the stat of a guy to your point, that is
Speaker 4: like this elite ball handler breaking down to defender Carrie
Speaker 4: Irving style, or this overpowering brute force athlete who just
Speaker 4: gets to the ream at will. He is not that
Speaker 4: he's Tyre's Haliburton is one of one. He's himself. Like
Speaker 4: there's really nobody else like Tyre's Aliburton currently in the
Speaker 4: in the NBA. But I think, like you, like you
Speaker 4: said it, like Jackson said it last night to you,
Speaker 4: sometimes I think he's gonna take some of those shots
Speaker 4: and and like maybe there's certain nights you won't have
Speaker 4: to because on a here or a Nie Smith is
Speaker 4: going crazy or or a Nemhard it's his night, like
Speaker 4: it won't always have to be that, but I think
Speaker 4: there's certain games where Halliburton needs to feel a moment
Speaker 4: and say, okay, has to be me tonight. And the
Speaker 4: example I always bring up to me like Halliburton is
Speaker 4: so much like a younger Jokic in the sense that
Speaker 4: there was a time where Jokic would have four shots
Speaker 4: in a game, two shots in a game, and because
Speaker 4: he thought, well, I'm being selfless, I'm passing the ball
Speaker 4: to my teammates. I'm I'm not a selfish player who
Speaker 4: jacks up shots. I want to make my teammates better.
Speaker 4: And then he learned, oh wait a minute, me being
Speaker 4: selfless is actually doing the things that my team needs
Speaker 4: me to do because I'm mis great as a player.
Speaker 4: And he learned how to be a dominant score to
Speaker 4: become a guy that's taking a kind of shots. And
Speaker 4: Halliburn is not Jokic, to be clear, Jokic is a
Speaker 4: talk about a one on one dominant, huge elite footwork,
Speaker 4: different type of player who can do those things. But
Speaker 4: I don't think Halliburton's quite learned that lesson yet that
Speaker 4: for him to truly reach his potential and truly be
Speaker 4: the most selfless he could be for his team, sometimes
Speaker 4: that requires him taking those tough shots. Sometimes requires him
Speaker 4: being the guy who takes shots four or five possessions
Speaker 4: in a row. And I don't think he's learned that
Speaker 4: quite yet. And maybe he'll learn it in the middle
Speaker 4: of the series, because we have seen both Indiana and
Speaker 4: both Oklahoma City, both led by a tony young guys
Speaker 4: on their team, get better throughout the postseason. Maybe Games three, four,
Speaker 4: however long this series goes, we'll see Halliburn have a
Speaker 4: night like that and things click for him, like, hey, okay,
Speaker 4: I can do these things and sometimes I have to
Speaker 4: do these things for the greater good of my team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: It's it's fascinating with Halliburton in particular because I wonder
Speaker 2: if there's a big picture conversation to have about because
Speaker 2: you mentioned the difference between him and yok Yokic.
Speaker 3: Can go get forty forty.
Speaker 4: Five every night?
Speaker 3: Yeah, every single night?
Speaker 2: Yes, and so part like I was actually talking about
Speaker 2: this last night on playback, if I remember correctly, Like
Speaker 2: I wonder if Halliburton could ever crack into the top
Speaker 2: tier of superstars, like if he's even capable because of
Speaker 2: some of those limitations, But I do generally agree with
Speaker 2: the point which is that which is that each archetype
Speaker 2: has their demon they have got to confront, and the
Speaker 2: playmaking types, if you're not applying a certain amount of aggression,
Speaker 2: then they will play the pass, and your passing opportunities
Speaker 2: will not be as rewarded as they could be. Similarly,
Speaker 2: as a scorer, you've got to show a willingness to
Speaker 2: beat double teams with the pass or you're going to
Speaker 2: be shooting over double teams your entire career. And so
Speaker 2: there's a certain amount.
Speaker 3: Of like that.
Speaker 2: That is the demon that Tires has to confront. As
Speaker 2: we zoom out from the series, I came into this
Speaker 2: series thinking that Indiana had very little chance. I still
Speaker 2: view Oklahoma City as a substantial favorite, but from what
Speaker 2: I've seen in the first two games, I actually do
Speaker 2: believe that Indy has a pathway and it essentially stems
Speaker 2: around the fact that I think that they're fast enough
Speaker 2: to rush Oklahoma City's ball handlers enough, Like for instance,
Speaker 2: in the first quarter before things got ugly, I thought
Speaker 2: that Indy defended Oklahoma City well again, and it basically
Speaker 2: stems from the fact that and I think I heard
Speaker 2: Zach Low is the first guy to call this out,
Speaker 2: and God, it's been great, Heaven Zach Beck.
Speaker 3: Zach was talking about how.
Speaker 2: Some of these turnovers that Oklahoma City has comes from
Speaker 2: the fact that INDI's defenders will stay attached to me.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking it almost as like the ISO version of
Speaker 2: back pressure. Like in the same way in a ball screen,
Speaker 2: if you chase over the top and you stay attached,
Speaker 2: it forces the guy to drive into the teeth of
Speaker 2: your defense. He can't take a pull up. Similarly, if
Speaker 2: you get beat in ISO, but you stay attached and
Speaker 2: you're pressuring from behind, it kind of forces him to
Speaker 2: rush the drive into traffic. I think Memhard and Nie
Speaker 2: Smith can do just enough of that as a team.
Speaker 2: They rotate and contest just well enough that they can
Speaker 2: play Oklahoma City into some offensive roles. And then on
Speaker 2: the other end of the floor, I think they've proven
Speaker 2: that when they don't turn the ball over and when
Speaker 2: they get the ball popping around and they kind of
Speaker 2: expand the advantage incrementally over possessions that they can score.
Speaker 2: So like I look at it as they can win
Speaker 2: this series.
Speaker 3: Where are you at? Where?
Speaker 2: Where were you before the series, and where are you
Speaker 2: at now? With respect to each team's chance to win.
Speaker 4: Well, I picked okay See in five like everybody else
Speaker 4: on the planet seem to do, and I didn't give
Speaker 4: Indiana much of a chance. I have too much respect
Speaker 4: for them to have not picked a sweep for ok
Speaker 4: See And obviously okay See in five is still on
Speaker 4: the table. But one thing I did say before the
Speaker 4: series was that if Indiana splits the first two games
Speaker 4: in the road, this will be a deep series. Because
Speaker 4: I initially thought that Indiana would split the games at
Speaker 4: home and okay See would then win in Game five
Speaker 4: at home. So I think we're gonna see a split
Speaker 4: this week. That means we're gonna at least see a
Speaker 4: Game six, and at that point in the series, who knows.
Speaker 4: Who knows what could happen, Like Indiana will host Game six,
Speaker 4: who knows. Anytime you reach a game six or a
Speaker 4: game seven, anything can happen. And the Pacers have proven
Speaker 4: me wrong. I thought they were just like a league
Speaker 4: pass Darling during the season, like a really good regular
Speaker 4: season team, super fun, and then they just be a playoff,
Speaker 4: you know, team that gets eliminated, A good story, fun
Speaker 4: team to watch. I was wrong. I was wrong about
Speaker 4: them throughout the postseason. Here they are the NBA Finals,
Speaker 4: and I very well could be wrong about them once
Speaker 4: again in the finals. Like it's just it's possible I
Speaker 4: could be wrong about them. But I do think Okay, see,
Speaker 4: I still I still think this team is special. I
Speaker 4: still think this team we're witnessing the beginning of a
Speaker 4: really long run for them. Whether that means dynasty, multiple
Speaker 4: championships or not, I don't know. You don't know how
Speaker 4: the complexion of the league will change, how other teams
Speaker 4: will evolve, either. But I think we're at the beginning
Speaker 4: of like a really long, sustained run of contention for
Speaker 4: the Thunder and this team is like, this team is
Speaker 4: just better straight up and one of the reasons why
Speaker 4: Indiana is able to be here. You know, Kenny Atkinson,
Speaker 4: the Cavs head coach, said something after they got eliminated
Speaker 4: in the second round where he's like, you know, Indiana's
Speaker 4: you know, speed, athleticism and their physicality. He talked about
Speaker 4: how there's like a mental edge to that for them
Speaker 4: to have the endurance to sustain that from start to
Speaker 4: finish in games, and I don't feel like Cleveland ever
Speaker 4: matched that. New York never matched that from start to finish.
Speaker 4: Okay See in game two, I felt like did match that,
Speaker 4: Like that speed, that relentlessness, that that toughness, like those
Speaker 4: intangible things that has set the Pacers apart basically the
Speaker 4: whole season, since the middle of December where things really
Speaker 4: started to click for them. Okay See has those athletes,
Speaker 4: they have the depth as well, they have the stars
Speaker 4: who embrace playing that way as well, Like Sga was
Speaker 4: awesome on defense and game to the amount of steels
Speaker 4: and deflections he had, Like how active he was on
Speaker 4: switches against Siakam. I remember they tried to post him
Speaker 4: up once and I think the second quarter, and he
Speaker 4: just reached his long arms around and just like snatched
Speaker 4: the ball out of the air. Like okay See has
Speaker 4: that ability and and in ways that New York and
Speaker 4: Cleveland don't have. And that's where I feel like the
Speaker 4: Thunder everything Kenny Atkinson said about the Pacers, I think
Speaker 4: you can also say about the Thunder particularly their defense.
Speaker 4: So that's where I still I still lean heavily for
Speaker 4: the thunder. But I'm not. I've been wrong so wrong
Speaker 4: about the Pacers. I'm not. I'm not gonna say, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm this time, I'm right. I might be wrong again.
Speaker 3: I might be Yeah, I don't belive you.
Speaker 2: I've made the same mistake with them multiple times in
Speaker 2: this postseason.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: I think the only series I picked them was the
Speaker 2: Knicks series because I could not when I was picking
Speaker 2: the first round series, the image I could not get
Speaker 2: out of my head was Giannis against the Celtics in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. Oh yeah, I was like in my head,
Speaker 2: I was like, we haven't watched Giannis play healthy in
Speaker 2: a playoff series since then, and it like didn't matter
Speaker 2: that the Celtics were better, He just he just backpacked
Speaker 2: his team too within, you know, a striking distance of
Speaker 2: winning that series. I h One of the things that
Speaker 2: I think is I love the point you made about
Speaker 2: like matching Indiana's like mental fortitude, because like that is
Speaker 2: one of the most remarkable things to me about watching
Speaker 2: this Pacers team is their basketball character. It is like
Speaker 2: the things they do all suck, like running that much,
Speaker 2: and like like one of the things that Indiana does
Speaker 2: that I think is really fascinating is like, even when
Speaker 2: they give up an open three, they will throw a
Speaker 2: token close out. And what's fascinating about that to me
Speaker 2: is like they those guys know, they know that NBA
Speaker 2: players when they're that open aren't seeing the late hand
Speaker 2: that comes like after the release. But it's just part
Speaker 2: of their character. It's like, no, this is what we do.
Speaker 2: We close out. We close out every single time, and
Speaker 2: we run the floor every single time, and we pressure
Speaker 2: the ball every single time.
Speaker 3: It's like it's part of their character as a team.
Speaker 2: And Oklahoma City there's a reason why they won sixty
Speaker 2: eight games because they also attacked every single possession during
Speaker 2: the entire season, and so they were able to match that.
Speaker 2: And so the last thing before we get you out
Speaker 2: of here, I thought that Oklahoma City was able to
Speaker 2: hit a level of like physical leverage in this game,
Speaker 2: just athletically that Indiana couldn't match. And so it got
Speaker 2: me thinking that Indiana's only pathway is to sweep the
Speaker 2: home games, because in theory, if they won two and
Speaker 2: three or three and four, that would be a must
Speaker 2: win for Oklahoma City in Game five. So you're gonna
Speaker 2: get that same athletic leverage and then in theory of
Speaker 2: Game seven trophies on the line, same sort of thing.
Speaker 2: I am not sure that Indiana can match it when
Speaker 2: they get to that point. Do you think that Indiana
Speaker 2: has the ability to match Oklahoma City athletically when they
Speaker 2: need to.
Speaker 4: No, No, I don't, I don't. I don't like I
Speaker 4: just I think I think that, Like I'm not gonna
Speaker 4: roll out Indiana winning the series. But okay see, he's
Speaker 4: just special, man, because they have those intangible qualities you're
Speaker 4: hitting on. They have the elite talent level, and they
Speaker 4: have the athletic edge. Like Okaysee had an all time
Speaker 4: great regular season defense, they very well might prove to
Speaker 4: have an all time great postseason defense as well. You know,
Speaker 4: Halliburton hits the game winner in Game one, an epic moment,
Speaker 4: but he hasn't been great, and neither was Anthony Edwards
Speaker 4: and these are neither was nikolae okicic. So like if
Speaker 4: this continues or even worsens for him, like if it
Speaker 4: gets harder for him, because think about, like okay see,
Speaker 4: to get to this point, they save their best coverage
Speaker 4: for yok in the close out game, putting Caruso on
Speaker 4: him and swarming him. They had their best game against
Speaker 4: Edwards in the close out game against Minnesota. They have
Speaker 4: cards that they're waiting to play that they had we
Speaker 4: haven't seen hints of yet against Tyre's Halliburn, or against
Speaker 4: Andrew Nemhard or against Passal Siakam, that they're weight and
Speaker 4: use that they haven't used it, and so they have
Speaker 4: that in the back of my mind as well when
Speaker 4: I think about how we've seen the Thunder close out
Speaker 4: teams to get to this point that we may not
Speaker 4: have seen actual actually what their best game plan is
Speaker 4: to win some of these series. So I'll still pick
Speaker 4: the Thunder to win in six now, not five, because
Speaker 4: I think Indiana will at least take one game at
Speaker 4: home in Indiana. But you know what, maybe this is
Speaker 4: a one Sixers Lakers type of series as well, where
Speaker 4: Philly wins game one and then Lakers win the next
Speaker 4: four and it's the beginning beginning of a run for
Speaker 4: the Lakers. Maybe that's what this is, and the Thunder
Speaker 4: are gonna sweep their way after a gentleman sweep their
Speaker 4: way to a NBA Finals championship. We'll see. I mean,
Speaker 4: do you agree there, Jason that like that's what we
Speaker 4: could see here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if I had to guess what would
Speaker 2: happen the rest of the series, Indie wins Game three
Speaker 2: and then Oklahoma City wins three in a row. That's
Speaker 2: that's gonna be my guest. I think there's like a
Speaker 2: there's like a Indiana first finals game and god knows
Speaker 2: how long I couldn't even tell you the last time
Speaker 2: they were in the finals, and then it was what
Speaker 2: early two thousands, right, And then you have the ball
Speaker 2: pressure element like I had an Okay see fan ask
Speaker 2: like or an Indiana fan ass last sign on playback,
Speaker 2: like how does Oklahoma City get away with all these fouls?
Speaker 2: And it's to me, it's like so simple. It's like
Speaker 2: the team that comes out and plays with more physical
Speaker 2: force actually gets a better whistle. That's just always been
Speaker 2: the way it's been. Like if you come out and
Speaker 2: you physically kick a team's ass, like you don't get
Speaker 2: called for fouls. It's like the craziest thing. It's just
Speaker 2: how it works. And I feel like it's just and
Speaker 2: I'm okay with it too. I'm okay with the refs
Speaker 2: rewarding the more physically aggressive team. But Indiana is going
Speaker 2: to be that team in Game three. And we know
Speaker 2: that Oklahoma City's offense is not rock solid. It it
Speaker 2: can get knocked off its foundation from time to time.
Speaker 2: So I do think Indiana will get one. But every
Speaker 2: time Oklahoma City's been in a situation where they've had
Speaker 2: to win, where they've had to get the job done,
Speaker 2: even when they're in an ugly spot, like down eight
Speaker 2: in Game four against Denver in the fourth quarter, down
Speaker 2: nine in Game five in the fourth quarter, they just
Speaker 2: keep coming through. And I'm I'm more on your side
Speaker 2: of things. I think this is one of the special
Speaker 2: teams in NBA history, and I at this point would
Speaker 2: be really, really surprised. But I'm thankful for the Pacers
Speaker 2: because they have made this an entertaining series and I
Speaker 2: was worried that it might not be and it like
Speaker 2: I will remember this Pacers team very fondly regardless of
Speaker 2: what happens. But Kevin, you've been very generous with your
Speaker 2: time today. I sincerely appreciate you coming on the show.
Speaker 2: Can you tell everybody where they can find your work?
Speaker 4: I appreciate it. Chason over at Yahoo's Sports, I have
Speaker 4: a ton of written articles, a ton of draft coverage
Speaker 4: with my NBA Draft Guide. It's I think a year
Speaker 4: twelve of doing draft guides draft covers, so yeah, drafts
Speaker 4: is coming up in sixteen days. Kind of crazy. So
Speaker 4: that's where a lot of my focus is right now,
Speaker 4: next to the finals. So all that stuff over at
Speaker 4: Yeah who Sports or whoever. My social channels are wherever
Speaker 4: you get your stuff.
Speaker 2: It was good to see you man. Everyone follow Kevin's work.
Speaker 2: That's all we have for today is always. We sincerely
Speaker 2: appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show.
Speaker 2: We'll have a mail bag coming out tomorrow, and obviously
Speaker 2: we're gonna be live on YouTube after the final buzzer
Speaker 2: of Game three on Wednesday night.
Speaker 3: What's up guys?
Speaker 2: As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
Speaker 2: OOPS tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us
Speaker 2: if you guys would take a second and leave a
Speaker 2: rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
Speaker 2: supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
Speaker 2: do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: The volume