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Speaker 1: The volume.

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Speaker 2: All right, well to hoops to night here at the volume.

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Speaker 2: Happy Monday, everybody, If all the guys had a great weekend.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: I texted Kevin O'Connor last week to see if we

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Speaker 2: can get them on to talk some NBA finals, and

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Speaker 2: in the text message, I said, fingers crossed for one

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Speaker 2: to one, and here we are one one as the

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Speaker 2: Pacers did some pacer things on Thursday last week to

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Speaker 2: get us into a one to one matchup. Lots of

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Speaker 2: interesting stuff to get into. What I want to do

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Speaker 2: today is just kind of zoom out from the first

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Speaker 2: two games and talk about some of the biggest dynamics

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Speaker 2: that are swinging this series one way or another. Kevin's

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Speaker 2: been someone that I've admired for a long time from Afar.

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Speaker 2: I've been lucky to come on his show a couple

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Speaker 2: of times. First appearance here on Hoops Tonight. One of

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Speaker 2: my favorite people cover in the game, Kevin, how are

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Speaker 2: you man?

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Speaker 4: I'm doing excellent. Jason, It's an honor to be on

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Speaker 4: your show. What you've built is so awesome to get

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Speaker 4: that YouTube plaque rewarded with that with all the hard

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Speaker 4: work you guys and your team have. Donna. Yeah, so

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Speaker 4: it's cool to be on your show. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's weird.

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Speaker 2: I'm like irrationally excited about the But I wonder if

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Speaker 2: that's just like our generation and just like the different

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Speaker 2: types of things that we get excited about. Like it's

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Speaker 2: so funny. It's just like like you know, a little

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Speaker 2: foam plaque, but it's something that.

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Speaker 4: It's a physical reward. It's better than just like an email.

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Speaker 4: It's like something physical that you can feel in touch.

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Speaker 4: It's awesome. But they still do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, we were talking before the show. I wanted

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Speaker 2: to quickly ask you, Uh so, obviously you do a

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Speaker 2: lot of draft work in addition to covering the league

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Speaker 2: at large, and this year's draft is just so much

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Speaker 2: more talent heavy at the top, And so do you

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Speaker 2: actually enjoy drafts like this year more in terms of

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Speaker 2: like the workflow or do you enjoy drafts like last

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Speaker 2: year where you don't have the obvious stuff at the top,

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Speaker 2: but like there's so much to get into with like

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Speaker 2: the high variance guys down the list. What has that

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Speaker 2: been like for you?

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Speaker 4: I mean I think for me, like I enjoy it

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Speaker 4: all equally in terms of like my side of things,

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Speaker 4: because it's there's stars in every draft, Like it's just

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Speaker 4: like there's always gonna be guys that end up being stars.

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Speaker 4: So how do you find those guys who are It's

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Speaker 4: always fun debating who are the guys you like more

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Speaker 4: than other people? Who are the people that you like

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Speaker 4: les than others? And why it's like last night, I

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Speaker 4: watched like every single Dylan Harper miss and I tracked

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Speaker 4: where he missed. I tracked like that he missed long, short, left, right, backboard,

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Speaker 4: Like I like doing that stuff. That's fun to do

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Speaker 4: for me, regardless of the quality of the draft. But

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Speaker 4: it is more fun when more people care about the

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Speaker 4: drafts and more people care about the draft, and when

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Speaker 4: there's prizes in the draft, and Cooper Flag being a

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Speaker 4: prize at the top, Dylan Harper a lot of people

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Speaker 4: do consider a prize. I'm not quite there with him

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Speaker 4: being some generational guard. I think he's really good. But

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Speaker 4: I think next year, in twenty twenty six, is really

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Speaker 4: gonna be probably the most fun draft class that I've

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Speaker 4: ever covered. I've been doing draft coverge since twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 4: My first Draft guide was in twenty fourteen. But like,

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Speaker 4: next year, man, like there's like three or four number

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Speaker 4: one pick quality guys, Cam Boozer at Duke, Darren Peterson Hansas,

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Speaker 4: and then A J. D. Bonsa, a native of Brockton, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 4: where I'm also from, going to BYU. At least those three,

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Speaker 4: and so like, next year, I think it's gonna be

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Speaker 4: insane with all three of those guys in college basketball,

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Speaker 4: all playing for big schools as well BYU big time

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Speaker 4: on the rise. So I think next year it could

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Speaker 4: be like the peak of my draft covers in all

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Speaker 4: the years I've been doing it. But it's fun for

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Speaker 4: me personally every single year.

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Speaker 2: No, I totally agree, Like there's I find joy in

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Speaker 2: doing projects that don't perform super well too, just because

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Speaker 2: we love our jobs, and there's and there's you know.

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Speaker 4: Joy you're telling me, Dylan Harper missed missus being tracked

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Speaker 4: isn't gonna perform well.

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Speaker 2: The funny thing though, is like like it's I was

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Speaker 2: so pleased, like we we ended up in a pretty

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Speaker 2: big number after game one of the of this series,

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Speaker 2: and like that just made me so happy because I

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Speaker 2: was like, first of all, it's like thunder Pacers. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's this like relatively small market matchup, and it's ultimately

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Speaker 2: our job is fun, people care, and so I totally

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Speaker 2: get that, Like it's like you can find joy in

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Speaker 2: the minutia and we're never gonna stop doing that stuff.

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Speaker 2: But there's no doubt that when the people are invested,

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Speaker 2: it gets to be a ton of fun. Kevin does

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Speaker 2: great work covering the draft. Make sure you guys follow

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Speaker 2: him on Twitter and is your draft guide out yet?

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Speaker 3: Officially?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Draft guide is on Yahoo Sports, so you can

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Speaker 4: find it just you know, it should be pinned in

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Speaker 4: my profile on social media. But just search Kevin O'Connor

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Speaker 4: NBA Draft Guide twenty twenty five whoever your favorite search

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Speaker 4: engine is and it'll pop up.

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Speaker 2: So moving to the series, the number one dynamic that

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Speaker 2: I have found to be most fascinating between the first

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Speaker 2: two games is shake Gilles Alexander in his overall approach.

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Speaker 2: Was there anything that stood out to you in particular

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Speaker 2: from the first two games in just the way that

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Speaker 2: Shay approached generating shots for his team.

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Speaker 4: You know, I felt like he was playing a bit

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Speaker 4: more to his speed in game two, But I I

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Speaker 4: kind of disagreed with you know, Doris Burke on that

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Speaker 4: broadcast said Shade was being over aggressive during Game one.

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Speaker 4: I disagreed with that. I felt like the game required

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Speaker 4: it from him. His teammates shot twenty five of sixty

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Speaker 4: eight in game one thirty seven percent, like pretty horrible.

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Speaker 4: I felt like they needed thirty shots from Shae in

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Speaker 4: game one, whereas in game two, obviously he got to

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Speaker 4: the line a little bit more. He took only twenty

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Speaker 4: one shots, not thirty shots, but his teammates also shot

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Speaker 4: significantly better, So I felt like he gave, okay see

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Speaker 4: what they needed in game one. But I do feel

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Speaker 4: like he came out in game two with a bit

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Speaker 4: more pace on his end of things, on top of

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Speaker 4: some of the tactical changes, you know, logo pick and

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Speaker 4: rolls further out, you know, more post ups and all that.

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Speaker 4: Like I, I was okay with his Game one performance though,

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Speaker 4: so I didn't really subscribe to some of the criticism

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Speaker 4: of him in game one.

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Speaker 2: This is awesome because we disagree, so that will make

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Speaker 2: for a fun little debate here off the top.

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Speaker 3: So, like I, I.

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Speaker 2: Agree in general with the idea that there are times,

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Speaker 2: especially for a scoring archetype, and I would argue that

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Speaker 2: the playmaking archetypes over the years, the Jokiches, the Lebron's,

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Speaker 2: the Halliburton types, there are situations where they kind of

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Speaker 2: need to be more aggressive than they are because their

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Speaker 2: teammates aren't super comfortable.

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Speaker 3: I did think that Shay.

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Speaker 2: Played a little bit of a role in his team

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Speaker 2: going out of rhythm in the first game, just simply

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Speaker 2: with like I'll give you an example, there was a

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Speaker 2: play where in the it was in like the I

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Speaker 2: think it was in the late first quarter last night,

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Speaker 2: where he's in a ball screen and he's attacking Thomas

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Speaker 2: Bryant and Hartenstein just wipes out Aaron E. Smith on

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Speaker 2: the screen and he comes downhill and he has Thomas

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Speaker 2: Bryant kind of like a drop coverage, and he's got

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Speaker 2: a pretty good look at like a little pull up

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Speaker 2: seventeen footer around the right elbow area, but TJ McConnell's

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Speaker 2: kind of sagging in off of Chet off of the

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Speaker 2: left wing, and he's sitting behind Thomas Bryant just right

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Speaker 2: off of that like left handed drive, so it's like

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Speaker 2: he's not there bothering the pull up shot, but he's

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Speaker 2: making it so that the drive he couldn't like, couldn't

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Speaker 2: like snake to pick and roll to try to get

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Speaker 2: back over to his left hand or anything like that,

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Speaker 2: and instead he just throws a little pitch out to

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Speaker 2: Chet Holmgren on the left wing and TJ McConnell closes out,

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Speaker 2: he pump fakes, he runs past him, and he ends

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Speaker 2: up hitting a three. And it felt to me like

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Speaker 2: that was a little that was a pull up jump

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Speaker 2: shot that both him and Jay Dub were just taking

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Speaker 2: in Game one, that like kind of fifteen to seventeen

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Speaker 2: on the shot clock, type of like decent shot that

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Speaker 2: we know he can make. And I remember in the moment,

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Speaker 2: you know what's so interesting, Kevin, I remember in the

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Speaker 2: moment watching Game one, being like, like, oh, like Shay's

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Speaker 2: attacking the finals like he is. He is not letting himself,

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Speaker 2: you know, shrink or feel uncomfortable. He's like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: find a way to get comfortable out here by taking

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Speaker 2: these shots that I know that I can make. And

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Speaker 2: I I thought that just in general, his approach was

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Speaker 2: a little bit more geared towards hunting advantages in Game

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Speaker 2: two versus hunting his shot. There were some pretty significant

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Speaker 2: differences in the numbers. They had a ninety six offensive

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Speaker 2: rating in the half court in Game one. They had

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Speaker 2: a one to sixteen half court offensive rating in Game two. Now, obviously,

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Speaker 2: as we know, part of that is just guys knocking

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Speaker 2: down shots, but they also generated more. They generated twenty

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Speaker 2: three unguarded catch and tchoo jump shots in Game two,

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Speaker 2: just fifteen in Game one. As a team, they threw

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Speaker 2: two hundred and thirty two passes in game two compared

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Speaker 2: to two hundred and seven passes in game one. I

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Speaker 2: did think he in general just kind of like let

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Speaker 2: the game come to him a little bit more, which

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Speaker 2: allowed him to again, this stuff is a lot in

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Speaker 2: a lot of cases like super supernatural in terms of discussion,

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Speaker 2: when we're talking about rhythm and flow, and it's like

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Speaker 2: it's very difficult to quantify these things, and it's always

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Speaker 2: going to be a certain amount of like subjectivity, and

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Speaker 2: it's up for debate. But I did think that Shay

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Speaker 2: just in general, made a bit a little bit more

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Speaker 2: of an effort to kind of keep the ball popping around,

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Speaker 2: some quicker decisions, some of those reads earlier in the clock,

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Speaker 2: taking some of those tougher mid range jump shots in

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Speaker 2: later clock situations, or as a counter sprinkling in aggression,

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Speaker 2: just to keep the defense honest. But like, at the

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Speaker 2: same time, I did think his floor game was a

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Speaker 2: little bit better. That said, I do agree with you

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Speaker 2: that there the young guys were more comfortable in this game,

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Speaker 2: and that certainly helps. And a lot of the times,

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Speaker 2: you know, these guys will react based on what their

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Speaker 2: personality traits are, like when Shae sees his teammates struggling,

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Speaker 2: he's gonna think. He's gonna think shoot the ball, right,

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Speaker 2: just like when Tyree sees his teammate struggling, he's going

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Speaker 2: to confront the issue by trying to pass the ball.

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Speaker 2: More So, like I guess my take is just that

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Speaker 2: I thought that he kind of was more of an

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Speaker 2: active participant in the team's rhythm in Game two.

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Speaker 4: I think I think, like what you're hitting on, like

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Speaker 4: the supernatural aspect, you know, the feel, and like it's

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Speaker 4: these things like you can't understand by just looking at

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Speaker 4: the numbers, right, because if you look at the numbers,

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Speaker 4: which I have. Game one, he made thirty eight passes,

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Speaker 4: his teammates shot two of eleven on the assist opportunities.

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Speaker 4: In Game two, he made thirty nine passes. His teammates

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Speaker 4: shot eight of fifteen on assist opportunities. So like his

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Speaker 4: teammates shot better off of his passes in game two,

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Speaker 4: they shot horribly in game one, whether he was passing

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Speaker 4: the ball or somebody else is passing them the ball,

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Speaker 4: or they were self created shots. But to your point,

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Speaker 4: like that's where I think you and I agree, is

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Speaker 4: that I did feel he was just more comfortable in

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Speaker 4: Game two, he was just more comfortable. Whether that was

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Speaker 4: due to his approach in the game to your point,

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Speaker 4: coming out early looking for his teammates. Most of his

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Speaker 4: passes in Game one came in the second, third, and

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Speaker 4: fourth quarters, not as much the first quarter, setting a

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Speaker 4: tone for his team looking to pass, or whether it

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Speaker 4: was due to game planning as well, because okay, so

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Speaker 4: he was sitting screens further out more logo logo pick

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Speaker 4: and rolls where you know you have Indiana going over

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Speaker 4: screens in those situations where I feel like maybe you

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Speaker 4: want to go under when it's that far out, and

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Speaker 4: you have him posting up a handful of times as well,

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Speaker 4: Like I feel, that's where I feel the biggest difference

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Speaker 4: is that I thought in Game one there there wasn't

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Speaker 4: as much variety as there was in Game two from

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Speaker 4: Shay because, like I mentioned this on my podcast last night,

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Speaker 4: I had Adam Adas from All NBA on it, like

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Speaker 4: him and I were talking about Adam's the best, and

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Speaker 4: like him and I were talking about SGA as well,

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Speaker 4: and like I mentioned to him, you know, there's this

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Speaker 4: one play in the late mid or late third quarter

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Speaker 4: where SGA split a pick and roll. Hartenstein was on

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Speaker 4: a short roll. He found him immediately because he was

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Speaker 4: you know, Sga got pressured. He split the pick and

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Speaker 4: roll than Hartenstein found Cruz on a cup. But then

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Speaker 4: the next play, Sga got posted up on the left

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Speaker 4: block and okay, See cleared out everything for him. He

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Speaker 4: drew attention, kicked it out. Okay, so he swung it

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Speaker 4: around the horn and found Cruso in the right corner

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Speaker 4: four three. So it's like, I feel, okay, See put

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Speaker 4: him in different spots on the floor more often, and

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Speaker 4: maybe these things are all connected, where like him looking

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Speaker 4: for the pass more is in part due to some

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Speaker 4: game planning here with putting him in different areas of

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Speaker 4: the floor versus Indiana kind of knowing what Indiana was

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Speaker 4: doing in game one. As Dagnau called it after Game one,

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Speaker 4: it was a feel out game and maybe that's where

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Speaker 4: Sga felt it out and he just felt overall more

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Speaker 4: comfortable and the game planning was better and the teammates

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Speaker 4: just made more shots.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I did the same thing.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I was like, I'm feeling this strong

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Speaker 2: kind of vibe that Shay's hunting his opportunities more as

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Speaker 2: a passer in game two. So I wanted to check

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Speaker 2: the numbers, and I saw the same stuff you did

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Speaker 2: in terms of like the passing numbers being the same,

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Speaker 2: and my rationalization was with that was exactly what you said,

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Speaker 2: which is if in game one, I think he took

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Speaker 2: eleven shots in the first quarter, I actually thought Shaye

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Speaker 2: made all of the kickout reads in the fourth quarter

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Speaker 2: of that game. Like Shae was fantastic in the fourth

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Speaker 2: quarter of that game, getting dribble penetration through those guard

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Speaker 2: guard action or hitting the guy slipping out of the action,

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Speaker 2: and like the pacers were throwing sometimes two three dudes

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Speaker 2: helping at the basket, and he was making the kickout passes.

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Speaker 2: He did make those passes. The difference to me was

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Speaker 2: in game two he started the game that way. And

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Speaker 2: I've just always been a believer that if you invest

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Speaker 2: in rhythm basically early in the game, if you target

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Speaker 2: these opportunities so guys feel comfortable, there's just more of

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Speaker 2: an opportunity for them to be comfortable throughout the game.

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Speaker 2: That said, love a good disagreement, love a good argument.

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Speaker 2: I love the other stuff you hit on, Like I

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Speaker 2: thought the left block post ups were like a huge

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Speaker 2: development in game two. It just it puts the ball

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Speaker 2: in Shae's dominant hand, so it's really easy for him

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Speaker 2: to pass out of that. And like when he gets

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Speaker 2: into single coverage, he was able to draw fouls or

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Speaker 2: score against nemhart And and Mathrin, but at the same

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Speaker 2: time he was able to use it as just a

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Speaker 2: easy vehicle with which to get the defense in rotation

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Speaker 2: the part I want to zoom in on. And I

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Speaker 2: also just thought I thought you mentioned this too in

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Speaker 2: your bit, the like just in general, like it felt

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Speaker 2: like they were more willing to have Shay sit off

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Speaker 2: ball and let other people run action, which was another part.

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Speaker 2: Like there was a play in the late second quarter

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Speaker 2: or late first quarter where like it's like Shae's just

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Speaker 2: literally standing off ball. Why Isaiah Joe's running action with Hartenstein,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like they were just a

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Speaker 2: little bit more willing to let other people get involved

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Speaker 2: in the offense. And I thought that that was contagious

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Speaker 2: and that it just kind of flowed down the roster

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Speaker 2: as far as the pick and roll coverages go. This

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Speaker 2: is where I think it gets fascinating. So whenever we're

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Speaker 2: having these discussions we have to lead with saying.

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Speaker 3: There is no good way to guard Shay.

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Speaker 2: He's just incredible, because like any alternative that we're gonna

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Speaker 2: throw out here is gonna come with its own set

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Speaker 2: of issues. But one of the things that stood out

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Speaker 2: to me in Game one, I thought in the second

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Speaker 2: half they were a little bit softer in their pick

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Speaker 2: and roll coverages, which is why Shay started to get

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Speaker 2: some of his stuff in drop coverage. But everything at

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Speaker 2: the level in this series I think has been brutal

351
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Speaker 2: for Indiana, and the two problems I should say the

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Speaker 2: three problems that they keep having is one Shae rejecting screens.

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Speaker 2: So when they bring up whoever it is, whether it's

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Speaker 2: Topen or Turner or Thomas Bryant, that guy's setting up

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Speaker 2: to get on the side of the screen that they're

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Speaker 2: expecting Shaye to go. And then when he rejects the screen,

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Speaker 2: there's nobody there four on three. Or they'll throw that

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Speaker 2: hard head or switch with that guy and he'll quickly

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00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,560
Speaker 2: split that now they're gone four on three, Or the

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00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,879
Speaker 2: dude will slip out of it and he throws the

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Speaker 2: pass over the top and it's four on three. So

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Speaker 2: to Shay's credit, he has butchered this coverage with his

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Speaker 2: ability to generate the four on threes. Do you think

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Speaker 2: Indiana needs to consider pivoting to a different coverage to

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Speaker 2: try to have a better chance to contain Shay?

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Speaker 4: Is this why we started to see a little bit

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Speaker 4: of zone? You think? Is that possible Indiana sprinkling that

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Speaker 4: in a little bit in the middle of the third

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Speaker 4: quarter because Indiana they don't really run zone at all,

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Speaker 4: But then again, neither the Minnesota neither the Denver and

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Speaker 4: then Denver like a third of their possessions in the

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Speaker 4: half court or zone defense. I think from Minnesota it

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Speaker 4: was like ten percent of their possessions in the half

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Speaker 4: court or zone defense against Oklahoma City. With Indiana entering

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Speaker 4: this series, I believe the number was they had three

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Speaker 4: total possessions of playing zone. Those are like sideline out

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Speaker 4: of bounds plays when they would do that, but after

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Speaker 4: makes in the third quarter for a short stretch they're

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Speaker 4: playing zone. Is that why you think possibly because of

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Speaker 4: the issues with regardless of whatever the type of covers

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Speaker 4: are using against shape pick and rolls, that that could

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Speaker 4: be the answer.

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Speaker 2: So I think that in general, having a plan for penetration.

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Speaker 2: Penetration is the move. Now that could be zone because

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Speaker 2: if we look at it, so like what are the alternatives.

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Speaker 2: So if they're showing high whether that's a hedge or

396
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Speaker 2: it's a ball screen coverage with their with their bigs,

397
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Speaker 2: you're giving up these four on threes because you have

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Speaker 2: two guys that are out way out by the perimeter, right.

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Speaker 2: So like in theory, you could try like more of

400
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 2: a softer switch, you could try a deeper drop. There's

401
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 2: all these like different things you can try to me

402
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,439
Speaker 2: the softer switch, the deeper drop. In particular, at the

403
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 2: very least you're going five on four instead of four

404
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 2: on three, meaning like as he comes off the screen,

405
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,120
Speaker 2: you have one of those two guys who was originally

406
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 2: assigned to Shay at least back trying to help facilitate

407
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 2: your plan for dealing with him. Zone is another way

408
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 2: to do that. The thing that scares me with zone

409
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 2: and we did see last night both teams score against

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00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,439
Speaker 2: the zone in the brief situations where.

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Speaker 3: We saw it.

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Speaker 2: But I'm like, I think, Okay, so he's been really

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00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 2: good against zone in this postseason too, And like that's

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00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 2: the thing is like we're talking about a really good

415
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 2: basketball team that quite frankly, like for all the stuff

416
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,360
Speaker 2: that we've talked about Oklahoma City being young and inexperienced

417
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 2: over the years, every puzzle that's been placed in front

418
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 2: of them in this postseason run, they've eventually sold. They've

419
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 2: had their issues for brief stretches, but they've eventually solved.

420
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,199
Speaker 2: It's even like Game one. Like Game one, it's the

421
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 2: super aggressive help on drives and they have a rough

422
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 2: offensive night and they solve it one night later.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: So it's like at a certain point, I don't know

425
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 2: that there is an easy answer, but at this point,

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Speaker 2: this is what I keep coming back to if you're

427
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,159
Speaker 2: gonna get beat up there anyway, like if you're gonna

428
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,199
Speaker 2: get dribble penetration, might as well have it function as

429
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 2: a one on one rather than a one on two,

430
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Speaker 2: meaning like have that fourth defender back instead of having

431
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 2: these like two man down situations where Shay just toasted

432
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 2: someone off the dribble and now Nie Smith and Turner

433
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 2: are standing up at the top of the key trying

434
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Speaker 2: to rotate out of it. So, like I guess, I

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00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 2: guess it comes down to just whether it's zone, whether

436
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 2: it's a deeper drop functioning in a way where you

437
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,679
Speaker 2: keep that fourth defender in a position to help and rotate.

438
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that's gonna be the puzzle for

439
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 4: Indiana really in this series. And as you said, Okay,

440
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 4: see's a good team. Maybe they're an all time team,

441
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 4: Like they're sixty eight win regular season team, They've had

442
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 4: an unbelievable postseason. They very well, this might be the

443
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 4: start of something special. We'll see how the series continues.

444
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 4: But that's the issue for Indiana in this entire series,

445
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 4: as it was for Minnesota, as it was for Denver.

446
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 4: And don't forget they destroyed Memphis as well in the

447
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 4: first round. But like, there just may not be real

448
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 4: answers for Oklahoma City with their amount of guys who

449
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 4: can generate offense off the dribble, because it doesn't need

450
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 4: to just be SGA. You said it earlier. Other guys

451
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,199
Speaker 4: are getting opportunities to create in Game two for the thunder,

452
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 4: But every guy on that floor can do something with

453
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 4: the ball in their hands, or they can do something

454
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 4: in motion, like even Caruso, he wasn't just hitting like

455
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 4: standstill threes in game two, like some of them were

456
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 4: off of movement, and that's Alex Caruso. And then you

457
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 4: have Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren who had terrible game ones.

458
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 4: Jdubb a bit better, I thought. In game two. Chet

459
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 4: Holmgren was awesome after a really rough start for him

460
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 4: in Game two, he was great the rest of the game.

461
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 4: But like every guy on that roster, even Aaron Wiggins,

462
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 4: can do something off the dribble. So it's like, even

463
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 4: if you do, even if you contain SGA, there's somebody

464
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 4: else on this Okay see team or regardless of the

465
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 4: lineup Dagnault has out there, they can do something with

466
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 4: the ball in their hands. Even Isaiah Hartenstein on the

467
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 4: short roll can dribble once or twice to get to

468
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,919
Speaker 4: the cup or make the smart pass. That that's what

469
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 4: makes them really, I think, an impossible puzzle to solve,

470
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,719
Speaker 4: and sometimes I know it's like very like simple to

471
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 4: say that that's where the zone I think you force

472
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 4: them to become a three point shooting team, that their

473
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 4: frequency of threes goes over fifty percent when you're when

474
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 4: you play zone defense against them, you're just gambling that

475
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 4: they have an off shooting night when you do that,

476
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 4: because you're you're giving up open threes. You're just hoping

477
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 4: and praying that they have a poor shooting night. So

478
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 4: that's what I think Minnesota and Denver, especially the Nuggets

479
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 4: kind of gambled on doing because Okay, see he's gonna

480
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 4: shred you either either way. But I do wonder if

481
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 4: that's what we'll see from Indiana because everything you're you

482
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 4: said Jason about you know, man coverages or pick and

483
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 4: roll coverages, like there's no there's no real answer. I

484
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 4: can't stop thunder and Shae.

485
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: Like Shay is not the most vertical poppy athlete that

486
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 2: you'll ever watch, but his ability to change direction and

487
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: like go from stopped to full speed is truly remarkable,

488
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 2: and like because that's the thing, Like people don't realize,

489
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 2: like they're not sending these dudes up to the level

490
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 2: because they're worried about the pull up three. That's not

491
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: what they're doing, Like that Shae's not a good enough

492
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 2: pull up three point shooter to justify that. They're doing

493
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: that to try to stop him from getting ahead of

494
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 2: steam and it's just not working. And like the other

495
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: problem is is you could sit back all you want,

496
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: but he's just gonna go at that dude full speed

497
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 2: and probably draw fouls or end up getting around him anyway.

498
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 2: Like he's just a huge pain. And like the same

499
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 2: sort of at the level coverages, Jay dub was torching

500
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 2: too like a chet attacking off the bounce in this

501
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 2: game did a lot of a lot more work off

502
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 2: the bounce. I thought he was unbelievable defensively. Last night too,

503
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: I was watching the film, like his switching and like

504
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 2: he was getting stops on Haliburton, he was getting stops

505
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 2: on McConnell, he was getting stops on Matthin, He's getting

506
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: like it was he is so so so good. It's

507
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: crazy to me my guess is that what Rick Carlisle

508
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 2: will do is going to Game three, maybe with something

509
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 2: involving a little bit softer at the level stuff. But

510
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: I don't think he'll go to zone right away. Where

511
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 2: I think he would go to zone is when the

512
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: shit hits the fan in Indy, so like, yes, like

513
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 2: when they find whether it's in game three or game four,

514
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: they find themselves down ten twelve points, I think that's

515
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: when he'll do it. And to your point, it changes

516
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 2: the game. It takes them away from being a dribble

517
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 2: drive and make read type of team to more of

518
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: like a processing and shooting team, which again is even

519
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: though they're awesome, is not the thing that they're like

520
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 2: most renowned for, so really really fascinating stuff on that

521
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 2: end of the floor.

522
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 4: I remember, Jason, I just looked it up. Fifty four

523
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 4: percent of their shot attempts are threes against zone coverage

524
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 4: in the in the playoffs, and then it's thirty nine

525
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 4: percent of their shots or threes against man defense. So

526
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 4: they're taking a ton of threes either way. But like

527
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 4: going over half of your shot attempts from three, that

528
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 4: that that it's really like, that's you don't have a

529
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 4: lot of choice against the Thunder, right, Like, the thunder

530
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 4: are gonna do what they want to do. But if

531
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 4: you do play zone, that's where you can influence the

532
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 4: types of shots that they're taking. So I think you're

533
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 4: right though, like when shit hits the fan, if it

534
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 4: happens in Game three or four Indiana, like Carlisle like

535
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 4: they wants won the finals the Dallas Mavericks against the

536
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 4: Miami heat The difference is Dallas played a ton of

537
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 4: zone all year long and then really you know, puzzled

538
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 4: Lebron and Wade and Bosh in the finals against that

539
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 4: Heatles team. But he did use it in the finals before,

540
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 4: and like, this is a guy who's used zoned throughout

541
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 4: his years as an NBA head coach, but not here

542
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 4: in Indiana. So I wonder if that's a card he's uh,

543
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 4: he's he's holding on to for the right for the

544
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 4: right specific moment when that time comes in this series,

545
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 4: and I'd be surprised if we don't see it in

546
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 4: a continuous amount of time in a game at some point.

547
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: That's a really good stat like an easy way to

548
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 2: basically for Oklahoma City to settling for the majority of

549
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: their shots from behind the three three point line is

550
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 2: to go zone, and the stuff about not practicing zone

551
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: in the regular season is a really interesting point too.

552
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 2: The one thing that could work to Carlisle's advantage there

553
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 2: is just the long schedule and just the extra off

554
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: days to try to implement stuff.

555
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 3: But yeah, go game till Wednesday.

556
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,239
Speaker 4: What are we gonna do? Just draft stuff. That's all

557
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be doing for two days.

558
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: So Richard Jefferson and many others were upset last night

559
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: with this was me in the same way that you

560
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 2: were disagreeing with the criticism of Shay, I was disagreeing

561
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 2: with some of the criticism of Tiree's not so much

562
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 2: to me, It's just less criticism. It's more just reality

563
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 2: in terms of who he is as a basketball player.

564
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 4: But what do you mean comment from Richard Jefferson.

565
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly the two d which, by the way, he

566
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: said in game one two, for the.

567
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 4: Record, well he did, but minutes before she hit the

568
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 4: amazing game winner. I'm sorry, I haliburned a amazing game winner.

569
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 3: How did how did you like?

570
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 2: What was your overall like response slash take to the

571
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 2: stuff surrounding Tyres and his aggression and all of that storyline.

572
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 4: I mean, I feel like I'm team Richard Jefferson here

573
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 4: and I have been all playoffs long that I think

574
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 4: with Halliburn, I know he has some of his limitations

575
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 4: as a as a creator, generating space against especially against

576
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 4: like the elite defense of the Thunder, But like dude,

577
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,239
Speaker 4: sometimes I think he's just too passive earlier early in

578
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 4: these games when we see what he can do when

579
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 4: he's aggressive late in games, like he twelve points on

580
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 4: five of six in the fourth quarter alone, five points

581
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 4: on two of seven through the first three quarters. I

582
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 4: just don't think Anyana has any chance of winning this series.

583
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 4: If Halliburton is taking only seven shots through the first

584
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 4: three quarters of games, it's just they're not gonna win

585
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 4: the series. Halliburton needs to be looking for a shot

586
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 4: more early, or the Pacers need to design more actions

587
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 4: to get him looks early in game speeds. He's two

588
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 4: elite of a shooter off the catch, too elite of

589
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 4: a shooter off the dribble, whether it's from three or

590
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 4: from mid range. And in this series, I looked up

591
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 4: the shot distribution numbers this morning because like, he hasn't

592
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 4: gotten to the rim at all. Seven percent of his

593
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 4: shots in the series against Oklahoma City are in the

594
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 4: restricted area, twenty two percent in every other series in

595
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 4: the playoffs, so almost a quarter of his shots were

596
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 4: in the restricted area up until the finals, and now

597
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 4: it's only seven percent. They're forcing him into more paint shots,

598
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 4: more mid range shots, and even from three, he's not

599
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 4: taking as many of those, so on self created chances,

600
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 4: this is the only self created chances. So with Halliburton,

601
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 4: if he's not getting into the basket, he's a near

602
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 4: fifty guy on mid range jumpers. I feel like, in

603
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 4: the same way that you said SGA took to many

604
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 4: of those at times in Game one, Halliburt is not

605
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 4: taking enough of those. In my opinion, he is an

606
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 4: elite mid range shooter, but he's all about rim in threes.

607
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 4: To me, I think that's an area that he can

608
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 4: exploit that he doesn't enough because he's sticking to what

609
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 4: he does at an elite level. But sometimes I think

610
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 4: you need to take, you know, the B minus shot

611
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 4: and not just always look for the eight plus play

612
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 4: because sometimes the B minus player the B play is

613
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 4: the best thing you're going to get in a half

614
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 4: court possession against the thunder. So I do think he

615
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 4: needs to be more aggressive early in games. I personally

616
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 4: think he should be taking twenty shots a game, not

617
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 4: fourteen to fifteen shots a game. And that's rerooted in

618
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 4: my belief of who he can be as a scorer

619
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 4: and who he can be as a creator despite some

620
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 4: of the athletic limitations agains against these elite defenders he's

621
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 4: facing every single possession.

622
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what's so interesting is last night I

623
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: was more like aggressive on this and then the guy

624
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: who kind of brought me back to earth was actually Jackson,

625
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: And because my initial thought was like I'm watching him

626
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: like because I'm watching him like trying to shake free

627
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: of these guards, and he's really not for the most part.

628
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: And so I was like, Okay, like there's a reality

629
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: to the fact that Tyresee is not the type of

630
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: athletic scoring guard that can just consist like that can

631
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: pull Kyrie Irving footwork out of his bag and like

632
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: knock down these crazy shots. But what Jackson said to

633
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: me at the start of the mail bag last night

634
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: really got me thinking. He was like he was like,

635
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: why doesn't he just take a few more of the

636
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: questionable like like to what you're saying, the B minus

637
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: shots at the very least to try to maintain some

638
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: more rhythm and it could free up some more of

639
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: those opportunities were like, the defense is reacting to him

640
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 2: more because he's being more aggressive. And so then I

641
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: kind of approached my rewatch this morning with that same

642
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: kind of ideology in mind, and He's right, Jackson's all right.

643
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 2: There were specifically some drop coverage looks, because what stood

644
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 2: out to me last night is I was like, okay, yeah,

645
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 2: the shots that he was getting in the fourth quarter

646
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: were drop coverage looks like they ran a stack, pick

647
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: and roll that Oklahoma City didn't switch appropriately, and he

648
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: got a dunk. He shot a floater against drop, he

649
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 2: shot a little right elbow jumper against drop. The toughest

650
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: one he hit was that one coming off of the

651
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: ball screen on the right wing that Jay Dubbed contested

652
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 2: very well and he hit like that three. But the

653
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 2: point is is he caught a rhythm. He caught a

654
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: rhythm and then he made a tough shot, which is

655
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: what happens when you take shots. You catch a rhythm

656
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: and then you can start making some tough shots. And

657
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: so I kind of have come back more towards the

658
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: middle in the sense that, like, I don't think Tyrese

659
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: can solve this series by just like putting up thirty

660
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: five points a game, but he absolutely does need to

661
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: be somewhat more aggressive, And to me, the example is

662
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: just taking more of those drop coverage looks when they're there.

663
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: So for instance, there was one where he came and

664
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: actually really resulted in an illegal screen on Myles Turner.

665
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: But there was a play where he came off of

666
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: a ball screen at the top of the key in

667
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: like the late second quarter where he came off and

668
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 2: Hartenstein was six or seven feet back, but he was

669
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: still over and Turner was rolling, and he threw the

670
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 2: pocket pass instead of just taking the pull up three

671
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: that was there. And my thing is like Indiana actually

672
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 2: did quite a bit of damage on action like that

673
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: in Game one on offensive rebounds, So it's like at

674
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: the just put it up and Turner's crashing with the

675
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: Hartenstein up not at the level but containing you on

676
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: and he's probably gonna step up in contest, Turner's got

677
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: a good shot in an offensive rebound there. So, like

678
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: I just think in general, there's a few there are

679
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: definitely more opportunities for Tyrese to look to take some

680
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 2: of those coverage beating shots. And at the end of

681
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: the day, like you have to be an active participant

682
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: in your team survival. You can't be a passive participant.

683
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: And so to me, I'm kind of occupying that middle

684
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: ground where I think he absolutely can be more aggressive.

685
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: I just also don't think he can be you know,

686
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 2: thirty five point per game guy.

687
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 4: If that makes sense, it's it's understandable. I mean, like

688
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 4: the stat I shared seven percent of his self created

689
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 4: shots or in the restricted area, that that is not

690
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 4: the stat of a guy to your point, that is

691
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 4: like this elite ball handler breaking down to defender Carrie

692
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 4: Irving style, or this overpowering brute force athlete who just

693
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 4: gets to the ream at will. He is not that

694
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 4: he's Tyre's Haliburton is one of one. He's himself. Like

695
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 4: there's really nobody else like Tyre's Aliburton currently in the

696
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 4: in the NBA. But I think, like you, like you

697
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 4: said it, like Jackson said it last night to you,

698
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 4: sometimes I think he's gonna take some of those shots

699
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 4: and and like maybe there's certain nights you won't have

700
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 4: to because on a here or a Nie Smith is

701
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 4: going crazy or or a Nemhard it's his night, like

702
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 4: it won't always have to be that, but I think

703
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 4: there's certain games where Halliburton needs to feel a moment

704
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 4: and say, okay, has to be me tonight. And the

705
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 4: example I always bring up to me like Halliburton is

706
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 4: so much like a younger Jokic in the sense that

707
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 4: there was a time where Jokic would have four shots

708
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 4: in a game, two shots in a game, and because

709
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 4: he thought, well, I'm being selfless, I'm passing the ball

710
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 4: to my teammates. I'm I'm not a selfish player who

711
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 4: jacks up shots. I want to make my teammates better.

712
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 4: And then he learned, oh wait a minute, me being

713
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 4: selfless is actually doing the things that my team needs

714
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 4: me to do because I'm mis great as a player.

715
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 4: And he learned how to be a dominant score to

716
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 4: become a guy that's taking a kind of shots. And

717
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 4: Halliburn is not Jokic, to be clear, Jokic is a

718
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 4: talk about a one on one dominant, huge elite footwork,

719
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 4: different type of player who can do those things. But

720
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 4: I don't think Halliburton's quite learned that lesson yet that

721
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 4: for him to truly reach his potential and truly be

722
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 4: the most selfless he could be for his team, sometimes

723
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,959
Speaker 4: that requires him taking those tough shots. Sometimes requires him

724
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 4: being the guy who takes shots four or five possessions

725
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 4: in a row. And I don't think he's learned that

726
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 4: quite yet. And maybe he'll learn it in the middle

727
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 4: of the series, because we have seen both Indiana and

728
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 4: both Oklahoma City, both led by a tony young guys

729
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 4: on their team, get better throughout the postseason. Maybe Games three, four,

730
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 4: however long this series goes, we'll see Halliburn have a

731
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 4: night like that and things click for him, like, hey, okay,

732
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 4: I can do these things and sometimes I have to

733
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 4: do these things for the greater good of my team.

734
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.

735
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 2: It's it's fascinating with Halliburton in particular because I wonder

736
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: if there's a big picture conversation to have about because

737
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: you mentioned the difference between him and yok Yokic.

738
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 3: Can go get forty forty.

739
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 4: Five every night?

740
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, every single night?

741
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: Yes, and so part like I was actually talking about

742
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 2: this last night on playback, if I remember correctly, Like

743
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: I wonder if Halliburton could ever crack into the top

744
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: tier of superstars, like if he's even capable because of

745
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: some of those limitations, But I do generally agree with

746
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 2: the point which is that which is that each archetype

747
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 2: has their demon they have got to confront, and the

748
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 2: playmaking types, if you're not applying a certain amount of aggression,

749
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: then they will play the pass, and your passing opportunities

750
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: will not be as rewarded as they could be. Similarly,

751
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 2: as a scorer, you've got to show a willingness to

752
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 2: beat double teams with the pass or you're going to

753
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 2: be shooting over double teams your entire career. And so

754
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: there's a certain amount.

755
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 3: Of like that.

756
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 2: That is the demon that Tires has to confront. As

757
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 2: we zoom out from the series, I came into this

758
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 2: series thinking that Indiana had very little chance. I still

759
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: view Oklahoma City as a substantial favorite, but from what

760
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 2: I've seen in the first two games, I actually do

761
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: believe that Indy has a pathway and it essentially stems

762
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: around the fact that I think that they're fast enough

763
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 2: to rush Oklahoma City's ball handlers enough, Like for instance,

764
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 2: in the first quarter before things got ugly, I thought

765
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 2: that Indy defended Oklahoma City well again, and it basically

766
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: stems from the fact that and I think I heard

767
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: Zach Low is the first guy to call this out,

768
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: and God, it's been great, Heaven Zach Beck.

769
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 3: Zach was talking about how.

770
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 2: Some of these turnovers that Oklahoma City has comes from

771
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 2: the fact that INDI's defenders will stay attached to me.

772
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 2: I'm thinking it almost as like the ISO version of

773
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 2: back pressure. Like in the same way in a ball screen,

774
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 2: if you chase over the top and you stay attached,

775
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: it forces the guy to drive into the teeth of

776
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 2: your defense. He can't take a pull up. Similarly, if

777
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: you get beat in ISO, but you stay attached and

778
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: you're pressuring from behind, it kind of forces him to

779
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 2: rush the drive into traffic. I think Memhard and Nie

780
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 2: Smith can do just enough of that as a team.

781
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: They rotate and contest just well enough that they can

782
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 2: play Oklahoma City into some offensive roles. And then on

783
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: the other end of the floor, I think they've proven

784
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 2: that when they don't turn the ball over and when

785
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 2: they get the ball popping around and they kind of

786
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 2: expand the advantage incrementally over possessions that they can score.

787
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: So like I look at it as they can win

788
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:02,720
Speaker 2: this series.

789
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 3: Where are you at? Where?

790
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: Where were you before the series, and where are you

791
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 2: at now? With respect to each team's chance to win.

792
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 4: Well, I picked okay See in five like everybody else

793
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 4: on the planet seem to do, and I didn't give

794
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 4: Indiana much of a chance. I have too much respect

795
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 4: for them to have not picked a sweep for ok

796
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 4: See And obviously okay See in five is still on

797
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 4: the table. But one thing I did say before the

798
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 4: series was that if Indiana splits the first two games

799
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 4: in the road, this will be a deep series. Because

800
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 4: I initially thought that Indiana would split the games at

801
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 4: home and okay See would then win in Game five

802
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 4: at home. So I think we're gonna see a split

803
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 4: this week. That means we're gonna at least see a

804
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 4: Game six, and at that point in the series, who knows.

805
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 4: Who knows what could happen, Like Indiana will host Game six,

806
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 4: who knows. Anytime you reach a game six or a

807
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 4: game seven, anything can happen. And the Pacers have proven

808
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 4: me wrong. I thought they were just like a league

809
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 4: pass Darling during the season, like a really good regular

810
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 4: season team, super fun, and then they just be a playoff,

811
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 4: you know, team that gets eliminated, A good story, fun

812
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 4: team to watch. I was wrong. I was wrong about

813
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 4: them throughout the postseason. Here they are the NBA Finals,

814
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 4: and I very well could be wrong about them once

815
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 4: again in the finals. Like it's just it's possible I

816
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 4: could be wrong about them. But I do think Okay, see,

817
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 4: I still I still think this team is special. I

818
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 4: still think this team we're witnessing the beginning of a

819
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 4: really long run for them. Whether that means dynasty, multiple

820
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 4: championships or not, I don't know. You don't know how

821
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 4: the complexion of the league will change, how other teams

822
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 4: will evolve, either. But I think we're at the beginning

823
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 4: of like a really long, sustained run of contention for

824
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 4: the Thunder and this team is like, this team is

825
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 4: just better straight up and one of the reasons why

826
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 4: Indiana is able to be here. You know, Kenny Atkinson,

827
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 4: the Cavs head coach, said something after they got eliminated

828
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 4: in the second round where he's like, you know, Indiana's

829
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,959
Speaker 4: you know, speed, athleticism and their physicality. He talked about

830
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 4: how there's like a mental edge to that for them

831
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 4: to have the endurance to sustain that from start to

832
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 4: finish in games, and I don't feel like Cleveland ever

833
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 4: matched that. New York never matched that from start to finish.

834
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 4: Okay See in game two, I felt like did match that,

835
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 4: Like that speed, that relentlessness, that that toughness, like those

836
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 4: intangible things that has set the Pacers apart basically the

837
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 4: whole season, since the middle of December where things really

838
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 4: started to click for them. Okay See has those athletes,

839
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 4: they have the depth as well, they have the stars

840
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 4: who embrace playing that way as well, Like Sga was

841
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 4: awesome on defense and game to the amount of steels

842
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 4: and deflections he had, Like how active he was on

843
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 4: switches against Siakam. I remember they tried to post him

844
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 4: up once and I think the second quarter, and he

845
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 4: just reached his long arms around and just like snatched

846
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 4: the ball out of the air. Like okay See has

847
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 4: that ability and and in ways that New York and

848
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 4: Cleveland don't have. And that's where I feel like the

849
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 4: Thunder everything Kenny Atkinson said about the Pacers, I think

850
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 4: you can also say about the Thunder particularly their defense.

851
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 4: So that's where I still I still lean heavily for

852
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 4: the thunder. But I'm not. I've been wrong so wrong

853
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 4: about the Pacers. I'm not. I'm not gonna say, oh,

854
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,479
Speaker 4: I'm this time, I'm right. I might be wrong again.

855
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 3: I might be Yeah, I don't belive you.

856
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 2: I've made the same mistake with them multiple times in

857
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: this postseason.

858
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 3: I think.

859
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: I think the only series I picked them was the

860
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 2: Knicks series because I could not when I was picking

861
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: the first round series, the image I could not get

862
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: out of my head was Giannis against the Celtics in

863
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. Oh yeah, I was like in my head,

864
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: I was like, we haven't watched Giannis play healthy in

865
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 2: a playoff series since then, and it like didn't matter

866
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: that the Celtics were better, He just he just backpacked

867
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 2: his team too within, you know, a striking distance of

868
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: winning that series. I h One of the things that

869
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 2: I think is I love the point you made about

870
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: like matching Indiana's like mental fortitude, because like that is

871
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: one of the most remarkable things to me about watching

872
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 2: this Pacers team is their basketball character. It is like

873
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: the things they do all suck, like running that much,

874
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: and like like one of the things that Indiana does

875
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: that I think is really fascinating is like, even when

876
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 2: they give up an open three, they will throw a

877
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 2: token close out. And what's fascinating about that to me

878
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 2: is like they those guys know, they know that NBA

879
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: players when they're that open aren't seeing the late hand

880
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: that comes like after the release. But it's just part

881
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: of their character. It's like, no, this is what we do.

882
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: We close out. We close out every single time, and

883
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: we run the floor every single time, and we pressure

884
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: the ball every single time.

885
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 3: It's like it's part of their character as a team.

886
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 2: And Oklahoma City there's a reason why they won sixty

887
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: eight games because they also attacked every single possession during

888
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 2: the entire season, and so they were able to match that.

889
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: And so the last thing before we get you out

890
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 2: of here, I thought that Oklahoma City was able to

891
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 2: hit a level of like physical leverage in this game,

892
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 2: just athletically that Indiana couldn't match. And so it got

893
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 2: me thinking that Indiana's only pathway is to sweep the

894
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: home games, because in theory, if they won two and

895
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 2: three or three and four, that would be a must

896
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 2: win for Oklahoma City in Game five. So you're gonna

897
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 2: get that same athletic leverage and then in theory of

898
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: Game seven trophies on the line, same sort of thing.

899
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: I am not sure that Indiana can match it when

900
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: they get to that point. Do you think that Indiana

901
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: has the ability to match Oklahoma City athletically when they

902
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 2: need to.

903
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 4: No, No, I don't, I don't. I don't like I

904
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 4: just I think I think that, Like I'm not gonna

905
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 4: roll out Indiana winning the series. But okay see, he's

906
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 4: just special, man, because they have those intangible qualities you're

907
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 4: hitting on. They have the elite talent level, and they

908
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 4: have the athletic edge. Like Okaysee had an all time

909
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 4: great regular season defense, they very well might prove to

910
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 4: have an all time great postseason defense as well. You know,

911
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 4: Halliburton hits the game winner in Game one, an epic moment,

912
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 4: but he hasn't been great, and neither was Anthony Edwards

913
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 4: and these are neither was nikolae okicic. So like if

914
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 4: this continues or even worsens for him, like if it

915
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 4: gets harder for him, because think about, like okay see,

916
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 4: to get to this point, they save their best coverage

917
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 4: for yok in the close out game, putting Caruso on

918
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 4: him and swarming him. They had their best game against

919
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 4: Edwards in the close out game against Minnesota. They have

920
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 4: cards that they're waiting to play that they had we

921
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 4: haven't seen hints of yet against Tyre's Halliburn, or against

922
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 4: Andrew Nemhard or against Passal Siakam, that they're weight and

923
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 4: use that they haven't used it, and so they have

924
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 4: that in the back of my mind as well when

925
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 4: I think about how we've seen the Thunder close out

926
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 4: teams to get to this point that we may not

927
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 4: have seen actual actually what their best game plan is

928
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 4: to win some of these series. So I'll still pick

929
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 4: the Thunder to win in six now, not five, because

930
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 4: I think Indiana will at least take one game at

931
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 4: home in Indiana. But you know what, maybe this is

932
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 4: a one Sixers Lakers type of series as well, where

933
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 4: Philly wins game one and then Lakers win the next

934
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 4: four and it's the beginning beginning of a run for

935
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 4: the Lakers. Maybe that's what this is, and the Thunder

936
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 4: are gonna sweep their way after a gentleman sweep their

937
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 4: way to a NBA Finals championship. We'll see. I mean,

938
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 4: do you agree there, Jason that like that's what we

939
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 4: could see here.

940
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if I had to guess what would

941
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 2: happen the rest of the series, Indie wins Game three

942
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 2: and then Oklahoma City wins three in a row. That's

943
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 2: that's gonna be my guest. I think there's like a

944
00:46:54,120 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 2: there's like a Indiana first finals game and god knows

945
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: how long I couldn't even tell you the last time

946
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: they were in the finals, and then it was what

947
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 2: early two thousands, right, And then you have the ball

948
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: pressure element like I had an Okay see fan ask

949
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 2: like or an Indiana fan ass last sign on playback,

950
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: like how does Oklahoma City get away with all these fouls?

951
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: And it's to me, it's like so simple. It's like

952
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 2: the team that comes out and plays with more physical

953
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 2: force actually gets a better whistle. That's just always been

954
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 2: the way it's been. Like if you come out and

955
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: you physically kick a team's ass, like you don't get

956
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: called for fouls. It's like the craziest thing. It's just

957
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 2: how it works. And I feel like it's just and

958
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: I'm okay with it too. I'm okay with the refs

959
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 2: rewarding the more physically aggressive team. But Indiana is going

960
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: to be that team in Game three. And we know

961
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: that Oklahoma City's offense is not rock solid. It it

962
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 2: can get knocked off its foundation from time to time.

963
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 2: So I do think Indiana will get one. But every

964
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 2: time Oklahoma City's been in a situation where they've had

965
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: to win, where they've had to get the job done,

966
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 2: even when they're in an ugly spot, like down eight

967
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 2: in Game four against Denver in the fourth quarter, down

968
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 2: nine in Game five in the fourth quarter, they just

969
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 2: keep coming through. And I'm I'm more on your side

970
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: of things. I think this is one of the special

971
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 2: teams in NBA history, and I at this point would

972
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 2: be really, really surprised. But I'm thankful for the Pacers

973
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 2: because they have made this an entertaining series and I

974
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 2: was worried that it might not be and it like

975
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: I will remember this Pacers team very fondly regardless of

976
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 2: what happens. But Kevin, you've been very generous with your

977
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 2: time today. I sincerely appreciate you coming on the show.

978
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: Can you tell everybody where they can find your work?

979
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 4: I appreciate it. Chason over at Yahoo's Sports, I have

980
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 4: a ton of written articles, a ton of draft coverage

981
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 4: with my NBA Draft Guide. It's I think a year

982
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 4: twelve of doing draft guides draft covers, so yeah, drafts

983
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 4: is coming up in sixteen days. Kind of crazy. So

984
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 4: that's where a lot of my focus is right now,

985
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 4: next to the finals. So all that stuff over at

986
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 4: Yeah who Sports or whoever. My social channels are wherever

987
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 4: you get your stuff.

988
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 2: It was good to see you man. Everyone follow Kevin's work.

989
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 2: That's all we have for today is always. We sincerely

990
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show.

991
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 2: We'll have a mail bag coming out tomorrow, and obviously

992
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 2: we're gonna be live on YouTube after the final buzzer

993
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 2: of Game three on Wednesday night.

994
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 3: What's up guys?

995
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting

996
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 2: OOPS tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us

997
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 2: if you guys would take a second and leave a

998
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 2: rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys

999
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 2: supporting us, but if you could take a minute to

1000
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 2: do that, I'd really appreciate it.

1001
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:21,280
Speaker 1: The volume