1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Joel here and I hope you had a 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: merry Christmas. I hope you're set to have a wonderful 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: New Year's Eve with friends and family. And I just 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: wanted to drop this episode in the How To Money 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: feed because I had the opportunity to go on front 6 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: of the show Poco Daily oonnes podcast. She came on 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: our show early last year, and she returned to the favorite 8 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: I got a chance to be on her show, which 9 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: is called Weird Finance. She's also on the iHeart network, 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: and we figured we would share this one with you 11 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: as a wide ranging, fun conversation. She called me a 12 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: grandpa at one point in the episode, which I actually 13 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: I think she's spot on. So you can figure out 14 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: why I have an old soul and listen to this fun, 15 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: weird money chat that we just recently had a few 16 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 1: weeks ago. And of course Matt and I will be 17 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: back here come January first with fresh How To Money episodes, 18 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: answering listener questions, having great interviews, talking about the pressing 19 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: money issues of the day. So can't wait to see 20 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: you come the new year. Thanks as always for listening, 21 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: and hope you enjoyed this one. 22 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 2: Talking about money in the world today, fins Uh Conversations, Donaldsess, 23 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: We're Finess. 24 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 3: Howdy, hey, and hello there. Welcome to another episode of 25 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 3: Weird Finance, where we try to help you feel a 26 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 3: little less weird about money, one conversation at a time. 27 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 3: I'm your host Pacodeleon, and on this week's episode, I'm 28 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: chatting with Joel Larsgard. 29 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 4: This quote I. 30 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 3: Heard the other day has been living in my head. 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 3: Rent free here it is not wanting something is as 32 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 3: good as having it now, I think thereon why this 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 3: quote has been haunting me is because I'm at this 34 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 3: place in my life where simplicity is suddenly so much 35 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 3: more attractive than the complexity of more. I mean, not 36 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: long ago I wanted to earn more, to spend more 37 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 3: and do more. And now what feels like suddenly I'm 38 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 3: starting to wonder how I can get off the hedonic treadmill. 39 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 3: This week's conversation with Joel Larsgard, the co host of 40 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 3: the How to Money podcast, dives into financial wellbeing from 41 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: this perspective of simplicity. This conversation was a good reminder 42 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 3: that part of financial wellness is knowing what you really want, 43 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 3: staying true to that and that the simple things, while simple, 44 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 3: are just so valuable, like seeing friends or enjoying a 45 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: bike ride. It sounds very silly, but it also sounds 46 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 3: very liberating. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Joel. 47 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 3: Joel lars Guard as I live and breathe, my friend. 48 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining me here on the 49 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 3: Weird Finance Podcast. 50 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: I'm happy to make it weird with you today, Paco. 51 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. 52 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 3: Oh, don't worry, I'm going to pry Joel. I'm going 53 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 3: to ask all of the burning questions I have about 54 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 3: you and your relationship to money. But before we dig in, 55 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: I just want to like set the tone and set 56 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 3: the stage. You're the co host of the how to 57 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 3: Money podcast. We're label mates. We're both on iHeart, which 58 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 3: I love, and you host this podcast with your best 59 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 3: friend Matt. You run the website, you put out an 60 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: email newsletter. Everything you do is in service of providing 61 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: knowledge and tools for normal folks so that they can 62 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 3: thrive in areas of their life like paying off debt, 63 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 3: doi investing, and just you know, getting the tools they 64 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 3: need to have crucial money tricks that give them, you know, 65 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 3: continuous support along this journey. You have thirty five million downloads, dude, 66 00:03:55,480 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 3: and you're seven hundred and thirty episodes in. So now, 67 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 3: as the person who's also making a podcast about money, 68 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 3: I have to ask this first question, how the hell 69 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 3: do you keep the passion burning brightly when it comes 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 3: to talking about money and just creating content around money. 71 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 4: Oh? 72 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: Man, that's a yeah, that's a really good first question. 73 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: I think it's it's because, well, one, I come from 74 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: the world of radio, where seven hundred episodes, it's like, well, 75 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: you do that in a year of a work basically 76 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: because people would do three hours every day, five days 77 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: a week, and that was normal in radio. 78 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 4: So it's just like ad nauseum talking. 79 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: And I worked for people who talked about money and 80 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and it just so three episodes a 81 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: week felt like, oh, let's chill in comparison to you know, 82 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: where I hail from. But really it is I think, 83 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: as you know, if you're going to start a podcast, 84 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: or are you're going to start something, whether it's a 85 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: newsletter or whatever, it is, any sort of content creation, 86 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: it has to be a labor of love, and it 87 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: has to be a topic that you care about. And 88 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: because you might not see much traction for the first 89 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: six months, year, two years, even. And so if you're 90 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: not willing to grind it out and keep doing the 91 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: thing for a significant period of time with like very 92 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: few results, just because you feel like this thing needs 93 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: to exist in the world and you actually love it, 94 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: then you probably shouldn't get started in the first place. 95 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely a labor of love, you know. So 96 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 3: on that note, I've been thinking a lot about my 97 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 3: work and other people's work in the finance space as 98 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 3: an active service, right, it's for community, it's for helping 99 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 3: other people. And I want to know, is there a 100 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 3: relationship between you providing this service, doing this active service, 101 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: and your own relationship to money. Does helping people with 102 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 3: their money improve your relationships money? 103 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 4: Oh? Sure? 104 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: I mean I think you've got to put your money 105 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: where your mouth is, right, And so if I'm talking 106 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: about these things, I'm like, am I actively doing these 107 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: things in my own life? And so it selfishly it 108 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: allows me to for my day job, be able to 109 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: read about think about kind of eat, breathe and sleep money, 110 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: although I have other interests too, but it allows me 111 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: really to kind of nerd out on the subject I'm 112 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: already fascinated by and diving deeper into these other areas 113 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: of like psychology and behavior the ways that money interacts 114 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: interplays with those things too, and so these are these 115 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: are places I would probably nerd out on it just 116 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: in general. It's the book I would be reading in 117 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: bed at night or something like that. But I get 118 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: to kind of dissect it and then you know, bounce it, 119 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: bounce those ideas around with my best buddy and hopefully 120 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: help people in the process, which is I mean a dream. 121 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 3: Really yeah, absolutely, I mean, so how did you get 122 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 3: into radio and money radio to begin with? 123 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: So I always I used to fall asleep listening to 124 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: talk radio, which sounds really weird, Like that's what put. 125 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 4: Me to sleep. 126 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: And so I would listen to like replays of this 127 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: like libertarian talk show at night and fall asleep, and 128 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: the guy was like really funny, and I just I 129 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: just was kind of obsessed with the medium of long 130 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: form audio. 131 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 4: I thought it was the cool. 132 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: This was before podcasts really existed, right, And and so 133 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: I just think, man, you feel like you know the 134 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: person who's speaking when you listen to them for that 135 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: many hours, over that many over that many years, and 136 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: there's nothing You don't feel that nearly that connected to 137 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: a television host, right, but you can feel that connected 138 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: to somebody who's hosting a radio show or a podcast. 139 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: And so I said, like, I got to get into 140 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: this medium. This is the coolest thing, whether I'm hosting 141 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: something or just supporting it. And so that was my 142 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: I got into talk radio and which is you know, 143 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: been in decline now for multiple years. Podcasting is starting 144 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: to eat the talk radio beast. But I just I 145 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: think it's the coolest way to communicate with people. 146 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 4: That I love that. 147 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: There's a million ways you can communicate with people now, 148 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: But there are so many problems because with some of 149 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: the other mediums, when you're trying to communicate really complex topics, 150 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: a TikTok post that's a minute long can't have quite 151 00:07:59,280 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: the same impact. 152 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 4: Though there's a lot of great creators. 153 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: On some of these social media services, you can't quite 154 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: have the same impact and the same nuance as you 155 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: can with like a long form podcast where there's no 156 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: time limit, so we can talk about, you know, anything 157 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: really on the personal finance spectrum, and we can go 158 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: four minutes or we can go forty minutes. As long 159 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: as it takes to talk about buying a used car 160 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: or something like that, because the truth is, sometimes you 161 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: need just a few minutes of advice, and sometimes you 162 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: need a whole lot more, and there's a whole lot 163 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: extra that you can get into. But yeah, it was 164 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: really just kind of this obsession with the medium and 165 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: seeing if I could weasel my way in there. 166 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: I like how you frame that, weasel your way in there. 167 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 3: That's how I describe my entire career. It's like, I 168 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 3: don't know I tricked people into hiring me. I was 169 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: just very smiley during the interview and jumped, you know, 170 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 3: whenever they told me to jump, and then yes and 171 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: then shine a turd during the Great Recession, and here 172 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 3: I am with my career in the media, just like you, Joel. 173 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 4: You're doing it better than I am. 174 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 3: Oh, you're too kind, You're too kind. I'm just imagining, like, 175 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 3: how old were How old were you when you were 176 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 3: falling asleep to libertarian talk radio? Were you like the 177 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 3: weirdest eleven year old boy that ever lived? 178 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 4: Probably? 179 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, you know, 180 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: it's probably what I was doing. And I remember calling 181 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: into my first talk radio show. And actually the guy 182 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: whose show it was was this awesome African American dude 183 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: who ended up ended up mentoring me in radio. He 184 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: ended up becoming my best friend at the radio station 185 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: I ended up working at, so is this cool thing 186 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: I still remember calling into his show. It's called the 187 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: Royal Treatment. He would interview local politicians in Atlanta and 188 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and it was I mean, I love 189 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: I love what that can do, like holding local politicians accountable, 190 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: having those important conversations, and then like, you know, I'm 191 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: this weird seventeen year old kid talking to him on 192 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: the on the and then he ends up becoming low 193 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: and behold this guy who just influenced me in so 194 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: many other ways. 195 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 3: Wow, that's actually really amazing. Did did you study journalism? 196 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 4: Yeah? Communications and journalism? Yeah, okay. 197 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: And it's funny because because what I do now, it's 198 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: like a lot of people are like, oh, do you 199 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: have a CPA license or something like that, Like you 200 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: are you a CFP And there's all these designations that 201 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: you could have to be a specialist in money, And 202 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: it's funny a lot of times those people who are, 203 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: and not all of them. There's some really amazing people 204 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: out there who have those designations after their name, who 205 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: are great teachers. 206 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 4: But a lot of times those folks. 207 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: I was talking to my parents the other day met 208 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: with a financial advisor and they're like, it was like 209 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: gobbledygook to us. We didn't know what he was talking about. 210 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: We left the meeting feeling like completely lost. And I 211 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: think that's how most people feel in the personal finance base, 212 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: and so they want people like you and you and 213 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: me who aren't necessarily these super buttoned up folks, but 214 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: have the ability to communicate these complex ish topics in 215 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: simple terms where they can follow through, as opposed to 216 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: talking to somebody who has all the information in their 217 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: head but can't translate it really into the real world 218 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: how to walk it out. 219 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point. I take for granted. That 220 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 3: skill just you know, taking things that are completely abstract 221 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 3: and you know, getting somebody who has no desire right 222 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 3: They're like, I don't actually want to learn about compounding interest, 223 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 3: but you're going to tell me about it, and by 224 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 3: the end I think I'm going to be down with it. 225 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 3: So that was definitely a skill. I mean, so you 226 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 3: mentioned your parents, I want to follow that path a 227 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 3: little bit, and I would love for you to tell 228 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: the listeners what your upbringing was like and how your parents' 229 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 3: relationship to money has impacted you. 230 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so, I mean, really that kick starts everything 231 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: when it comes to my personal finance journey. And my 232 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: parents are truly two of my favorite all time people. 233 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: They are they influenced me in so many good ways, 234 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 1: and in fact, like really, them not handling money all 235 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: that well when I was a kid has led me 236 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: to the career I ment. So I'm you know, not 237 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: mad about it in any way, form or fashion, but 238 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 1: they weren't great handling money early on, and part of 239 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: it was because they weren't taught about money very well. 240 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: So my dad and I were talking about this just 241 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: a couple of months ago and talking about his money 242 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: money story, and when he got his first job, his 243 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: dad was like trying to buy a new car and 244 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: then and then when he got a promotion, somebody was like, well, 245 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: you should buy a house. Make sure to buy one 246 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: like at the top of your range, because you're going 247 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: to get more promotions and stuff like that and you'll 248 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: be just you'll be just fine. That's the kind of 249 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: advice that a whole lot of people get out there, 250 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: and so it led to other money issues. My parents 251 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: eventually ended up declaring bankruptcy and my dad lost his job. 252 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: He was working crummy jobs, right that he has this 253 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: business degree, and he's working jobs that you don't have 254 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: to have the business degree to get, like working at 255 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: the grocery store deli, working at the gas station, stuff 256 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: like that, And so it became this really this pain 257 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,719 Speaker 1: point in our lives. My mom was working a job 258 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: where she would have preferred to work fewer hours and 259 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: be home with us kids a little bit more, and 260 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: she didn't have that choice, and so it and I 261 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: was at this really this time in my life where 262 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: I was really impressionable. My younger sister, I think she 263 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: was a little too young to understand what was happening. 264 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: My older sister, she was in high school, dating boys, 265 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff, And I'm this twelve year 266 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: old kid who's like, what is happening here? 267 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 4: And why why are there? 268 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 2: Why? 269 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: Why is money at the center of kind of the 270 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: fights and the difficulties. And so I just really decided 271 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: at that point in time, I don't want money to 272 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: be a point of contention in my future relationships. I 273 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: don't I don't want it to be something that feels 274 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: like this sort of damical is hanging over my head, like, man, 275 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: if you screw that up or you make one wrong move, 276 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: you're you're in a really bad position. And so I 277 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: kind of resolved at that. I was like, I'm going 278 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: to figure this thing out because I don't want it 279 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: to be a problem in the future. And again, my parents, 280 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: awesome folks, didn't handle money all that well, and so 281 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it just it leads to all these other 282 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: problems that aren't even money related. 283 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 3: Absolutely, there's all these downstream issues from taking weird advice 284 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 3: from a random person. He tells you to buy a 285 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 3: house that you can't afford. That's yes, Wow, that's a 286 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 3: rough one. So I'm a big question for you, Joel Right, 287 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 3: you grew up watching folks who are not that great 288 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 3: with money. That's made an impression. I don't want to 289 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 3: say you you over corrected, but you've really taken matters 290 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 3: into your own hands, and you're really solving for not 291 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 3: having that problem in your life. And so the good 292 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 3: question I have for you is are you at peace 293 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 3: with money and your relationship to money? 294 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: You know, I would say for a lot of years 295 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: I wasn't because I went so hard in. 296 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 4: The hyper frugal direction. 297 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: I was like, I got to figure this out, and 298 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: probably what it means is not really spending on very 299 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: much at all, you know, And so I took the 300 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: frugal thing to a degree it's not meant to go 301 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: to and that caused, especially in my marriage in those 302 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: first couple of years, a lot of issues that we 303 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: had to. 304 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 4: Work through together. 305 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: And so we had some great discussions and I think 306 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: my wife is pretty frugal too, but it really helped 307 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: us to come together in a lot of ways as 308 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: we kind of sorted through some of those things, and 309 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: I began to work through my wife studying to become 310 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: a therapist. Right now, she's in graduate school, so we're 311 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: still having a a lot of conversations about this stuff. But 312 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: like those things in childhood impact you and they can 313 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: leave a mark for life, but you got to work 314 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: through those things at the same time. And so I think, yeah, 315 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: at times, it has pushed me too far in one direction, 316 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: and I've had to kind of strike a balance when 317 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: it comes to and that's actually it's funny, Matt and 318 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: I On the podcast, we always we have a craft 319 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: beer what would do in every episode because we say 320 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: it's really important to identify what's important to you spend 321 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: money actively on those things in the here and now 322 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: while you're also saving an investing for the future, and 323 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: so trying to find that balance took some time, but 324 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: I definitely feel like I'm there now. I think I 325 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: think it's always a pendulum and you're never like there 326 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: arrived one hundred percent right, but you're always trying to 327 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: get it closer to that center where you're like, yeah, 328 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm going with money, I'm saving, well, 329 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: I'm investing, but I'm also not overdoing it on the 330 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: spending side. 331 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: I really would love to hear some examples of how 332 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 3: being too frugal has backfired for my own entertainment purposes. 333 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 3: Do you have any examples? 334 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: Okay, So what my wife would share with you is 335 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: when she wanted to buy shoes, I was always like, 336 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: I have to find the best deal for you, and 337 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: so I was the one I was like scoured the internet, 338 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: like you're gonna get the same shoes. Tell me what 339 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: you want your side, we'll figure it out. And she 340 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: was like, really, do we have to go through this 341 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: hoop and and she actually still now she wants me 342 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: now to do that. But it was this weird thing 343 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: I have. I have these weird I had these weird 344 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: ticks and I've had to overcome when she was funny, 345 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: but they still happen. There's just a couple of days 346 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: ago she wanted she was like, I'm gonna buy this 347 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: thing or whatever, and I was kind of in my mind, 348 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, do we actually need that thing? And it's 349 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: probably something I would have said five years ago, eight 350 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: years ago or something like that, But now I keep 351 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: it in and I just I'm like, I have to 352 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: back off, like this, we have the we have the money. 353 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 4: This is something that we have. You know. 354 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: Did she that thinks is important? It's totally fine to 355 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: make that purchase. But she was like, I could tell 356 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: that made you a little nervous that we were gonna 357 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: spend on that. I'm like it maybe, but like listen, 358 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: it's I'm trying it. So I'm trying to. 359 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 4: Be cooler, more relaxed about it. 360 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's still there's like this reaction 361 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: in me sometimes that's physiological essentially, that has taken a 362 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: lot of rewiring, but it's still not like fully gone. 363 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing that's been so fascinating about watching 364 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 3: your own self, right, being able to observe your own 365 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 3: self and how you've reacted in the past, acted in 366 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 3: the past, and who you're trying to become. And it's just, yeah, 367 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 3: this constant rewiring of like this one purchase is not 368 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 3: going to be life ruining and create a spiral that 369 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 3: will cause irreversible financial damage, right, yes. 370 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, And I think so much of the good 371 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: personal finance work that people need to do is like 372 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: personal almost non money related, right, it is, Okay, what 373 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: does matter to you? Because so much of what we're 374 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: doing is we're reacting to what others are doing around us, 375 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: and we're trying to live a life that kind measures 376 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: up to them, and that is often what sinks our ship. 377 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: And if you can identify what matters to you, it 378 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: makes it so much easier to cut back in the 379 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: other areas that you can say, well, I know that 380 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: matters to my neighbor and to my best friend, but 381 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: I don't care about that stuff, so I'm going to 382 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: instead funnel that money towards a trip to Southeast Asia. 383 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: Instead of like a newer, you know, fancy or vehicle. 384 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: But you have to know yourself what makes you tick 385 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: and where the money that you spend is going to, 386 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: you know, help you derive the most pleasure. And that's 387 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: more internal work than it is like numbers on paper. 388 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 3: It's so weird, how you know. We enter into this 389 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 3: space of finance and it's mathematical and there's nice resolutions, right, 390 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 3: things need to equal, and that feels good, right, It 391 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 3: has a has an end, there's an answer. It feels 392 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 3: nice and resolved. The more you dig deep into the 393 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 3: world of finance, the more you realize that it's not 394 00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 3: that at all. It's like, it's we're all like on 395 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 3: our weird like Disney movie heroes journey of like just 396 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 3: figuring out how to be true to yourself and not 397 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 3: let other people dictate who you think you should be 398 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 3: and how that you know, how we relate to money 399 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 3: in that regard as well. Weird. I never thought that's 400 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 3: what the theme of my career would be, but it 401 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 3: seems to be. 402 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there are mathematical realities, right, and there 403 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: are there are true tips tricks ways to help people 404 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: think through finance that are really important to discuss, and 405 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: it's really important to talk about the trade offs though 406 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: that exists when it comes to everything that we do. 407 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,479 Speaker 1: And for me, it doesn't matter how much money I have. 408 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: I'm really, really, really unlikely to buy a brand new car. 409 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: I just don't care about it. And I've told myself, like, 410 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: I've got a I'm driving a four thousand dollars car 411 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: and it's it's great, Like it gets me where I 412 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: need to go. I don't want anything more than that. 413 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter. If I've got five million dollars 414 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: in the bank, that probably won't change and I think 415 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: of that as a good thing. Like I think one 416 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: exercise that's helpful for people to perform is to think, well, 417 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: what if I won the lottery? 418 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 4: What would I do differently? 419 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: And it's interesting when you look at kind of what 420 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: happens to lottery winners. Most of them end up broke. 421 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: There was a recent lottery winner who just bought like 422 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: two massive properties in Los Angeles like bell Air and 423 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: stuff like that. 424 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, that doesn't end up. 425 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: Well for most folks, and it's because you didn't have 426 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: you weren't in touch with who you were before the 427 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: money came in and so I think it's, yeah, it's 428 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: going to take sacrifice if you want to make progress 429 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: with your money. You can't have it all, you can't 430 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: afford everything. But at the same time, it's okay to 431 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: spend intentionally on the things that matter to you, even 432 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: if those things maybe other people might say, well, that's 433 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: really weird. Like I went to a folk art festival recently. 434 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: I love folk art. 435 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 4: It's weird. 436 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: Nobody else does like that, I know. Does nobody else 437 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: that I know cares about that stuff. I walked away 438 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: dropping eight hundred bucks on like eight new pieces for 439 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: our house. 440 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 4: N They're awesome. 441 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: But most people would say that that's a weird way 442 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: to spend your money. But I'm okay with that, like that, 443 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: that's what I care about, and that's why I'm driving 444 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: a four thousand dollars car and I and most people 445 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: would say, well, you should upgrade that, and it's like, no, 446 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: I don't care about it, so why would I? 447 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 3: Okay, Well, what do you like spending your money on? 448 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 3: The control? 449 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: So okay, folk art and craft beer. And it's one 450 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: thing that we've recently changed on is we've come to realize, 451 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: especially with my wife in grad school and is we 452 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: work okay spending more money eating out? And this is 453 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: definitely a trap for a lot of people, and it 454 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: doesn't move the needle for a lot of people. It's 455 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: just about convenience and so you have to be thoughtful 456 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: about that because it can be really really expensive, right, 457 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: But we've become more comfortable with that. For a while, 458 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: it was traveling a little bit more, but with three kids, 459 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: that's we're starting to now that they're a little bit older, 460 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: prioritize that again. 461 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 4: But for a while that was. 462 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: Just like yeah, no, go like we're just not traveling, 463 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: and so eating out did move up on our list. 464 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, for me to it's I think it's buying 465 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: my time. Also making sure that if I want to 466 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,719 Speaker 1: work less, I can, and I can go on more 467 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: hikes and more bike rides and spend time with friends 468 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: like those. Those things matter to me too. So oftentimes 469 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily about what you're buying with the money, 470 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: but it's about the ability to choose to work lass 471 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: so that you can have more control over your life. 472 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 3: Do you think that control is like an illusion? Do 473 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 3: you think control is like trying to hold water, or 474 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 3: do you think that we can really have that when 475 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 3: it comes to our finances. It's a weird question. 476 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: Sorry, No, yeah, I know you're getting very philosophical with that. 477 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Do any of us have any control 478 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: over anything? Yeah, So I think there's definitely a lot 479 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: of truth to the fact that there's a lot of 480 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: things we can't control. There's a lot of things that 481 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: are out of our control. But literally, a tree falls 482 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: through my house in over spring break this year and 483 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: I've got an insurance claim on my hands and I've 484 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: got a bunch of things to deal with. That was 485 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: something that I couldn't control. And I had a massive 486 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: deductible because that's how I roll in order to lower 487 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: my premiums. It's it's really really expensive me too, and 488 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: it's just not fun, right, So I couldn't plan that. 489 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: There are imperfections. There are things that are going to 490 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: come along that they're going to smack you in the 491 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: face and that are going to harm your ability to 492 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: achieve the goals that you want. But I do think 493 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: at the same time, there's a lot that we do 494 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: have control over, and we can choose to say no 495 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: to something in the here and now. For the promise 496 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: of something bigger and better in the future, for the 497 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: promise of more ability to like I was just thinking 498 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: today about this prediction that economist John Maynard Kane's made 499 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: back in the nineteen thirties. He said, my grandkids are 500 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: probably going to be working fifteen hour work weeks. Almost 501 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: nobody works fifteen hour work weeks. And the truth is, 502 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: we have enough prosperity where many, many people could choose 503 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: a life more along those lines. The financial independence community 504 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: didn't exist back in nineteen thirty because there wasn't the 505 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: financial abundance. It wasn't possible in the same way that 506 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 1: it is now. Is it possible for everyone? Is it 507 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: easy to achieve? 508 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 2: No? 509 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 4: I don't think so. 510 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: But I do think that that a whole lot of 511 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: people that there is more control that you have have 512 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: than you think. And I think making people aware of 513 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: the things that they can control and how they can 514 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: make those tweaks in order to make more progress is 515 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: really important, because maybe it's a little too nihilistic to 516 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: think that we don't have don't have any control when 517 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: I think we do over our actions and over where 518 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: we're generally heading. 519 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 3: I do too, And actually the idea of nihilism is 520 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 3: why I wanted to talk to you about and hear 521 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 3: what you had to say. I feel like a lot 522 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 3: of people are feeling a lot more nihilistic about finances 523 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 3: these days than I've ever noticed. I don't know if 524 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 3: it's because I'm just older now and I'm looking at 525 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 3: younger people who are having that sense of the whole 526 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 3: world is stacked against me. I'm inheriting all these terrible systems. 527 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 3: Why should I even try? Right? Although I do see 528 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 3: a lot of young people on TikTok who are They're like, 529 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 3: they have their five to nine routine, which is waking 530 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 3: up at five o'clock in the morning and working on 531 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 3: them selves before work. So I do think that, you know, 532 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 3: we can't just say all young people are nihilistic. But 533 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 3: I'm just curious if you've noticed that as well. Do 534 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: you notice that people are feeling more hopeless than I 535 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 3: would say in the last five, six, seven years prior 536 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 3: to now. 537 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: It sure seems like it. It sure seems like it. 538 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: And the I think that's multifaceted. I think part of 539 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: it is a broken political system that makes you feel 540 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: a little bit like can we actually compisrate think can 541 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: people actually get along. 542 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 4: I think there are there. 543 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: It's not that it's all based in kind of just 544 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: it's not fake, and it's it's not that there's no 545 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: reason to have any pessimistic thought, right. I think sometimes 546 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: optimists can be Pollyanna Rose colored glasses and it's like. 547 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 4: Well, look at the facts on the ground, dude, but 548 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 4: the truth is too. 549 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: Like, we just actually interviewed doctor Gene Tiny on our podcast, 550 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: and she is an expert, the foremost expert on generational differences, 551 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: and we talked about essentially the myth of the broke millennial. 552 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: This is something that you've seen in headlines everywhere, right 553 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: for for years and years and years, and in some ways, 554 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: she says, well, back in twenty fifteen, back in like 555 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: when millennials were really young, it sure looked like maybe 556 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: they weren't going to have to be as economically prosperous 557 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: as their parents' generation. But the truth is, the facts 558 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: on the ground now reveal a different story. The millennials 559 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,959 Speaker 1: have done quite well for themselves. And that's a generational thing, right, 560 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: That's not every single millennial, but it is important to see, Hey, 561 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: what's good about where we are as individuals, as a 562 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: country as a society, and there are a whole lot 563 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: of reasons to be pessimistic, but I think there's even 564 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: more reason for optimism. And I think part of that 565 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 1: goes back to the control thing. There are more things 566 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: in your control than you think when you think about 567 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: the big issues of our time, something like climate change, 568 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: Like you can't change it on a macro scale, but 569 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: you can change it on a microscale, right. And you 570 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: can change what you eat. You can change whether or 571 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 1: not you bike to work or not, right, or you 572 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: live close enough to work to bike to work. There 573 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: are all sorts of micro changes that you can make 574 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: consuming less buy and less crap on Amazon. Right, that's 575 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: going to help save your wallet, but it's also going 576 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: to help the environment. You can't impact what your neighbor 577 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: does necessarily, and you definitely we're probably not going to 578 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: have much of an impact on the greater debate, you know, 579 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: at a national or global level, but there's a lot 580 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: that you can do kind of in your own personal 581 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: life to make changes. And I think like we've just 582 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: kind of that seems so old school and pass a 583 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: to be like do the thing where you are, but 584 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: that's where the change is made. It's in community, it's 585 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: in interpersonal relationships, and most people they want the way 586 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: influencers have grown as this kind of industry. It makes 587 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: people think that's the only way I can do something positive, 588 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: and in fact I think that's actually that's not the 589 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: best way to go about it, and you probably can 590 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: have less impact that way. You might get more eyeballs, 591 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: but you'll probably have less impact. 592 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 3: That's an interesting opinion. I hadn't really consider or that 593 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 3: you would have less impact with looser connections but a 594 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 3: big audience. But I do agree with you in the 595 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 3: sense that people are really overwhelmed and worried about what's 596 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 3: the thing I can do that's a really big lover 597 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 3: And I always want to remind people like you could 598 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 3: just be nice to someone, Like you could just smile 599 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 3: or say hello, or ask somebody how their day is 600 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 3: and really genuinely have concern and listen to what they 601 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 3: have to say. You could choose not to be a 602 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 3: dick during rush hour. Like, there's lots of ways, yes, 603 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 3: that are free. I mean, maybe there's emotional labor involved, 604 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 3: but there's a lot of ways to make the world 605 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 3: a better place. And yeah, it doesn't have to be 606 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 3: a gnarly lover. You don't have to start a podcast, folks, 607 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 3: you could just right be nice to you. 608 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 4: Barista, Well, is it amazing too? People? 609 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: When people are stuck in traffic on the way home, 610 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: they think, I'm stuck in traffic. But the reality is 611 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: you are traffic, Like you are part of the in 612 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: that right, and so it's really easy to point the 613 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: finger and to be like you're the problem, but you're 614 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: part of it. You're like partaking in it in so 615 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: many ways. And so if you would hop on your 616 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: bike maybe or whatever, that's something I preach a lot. 617 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: I think it's really important that would be one fix. 618 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: And granted, I mean that's there's a lot of people 619 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: who live forty five miles away from their work and 620 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: that's not possible. But I'm just saying, like that is 621 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: a microcosm of kind of the way we view things 622 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: these days, and it's like that person's a problem. There's 623 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: very little ability for us to, I feel like, step back. 624 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: And part of that is like just our communities aren't 625 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: as tight as they used to be. There's an epidemic 626 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: of loneliness people. When you read the surveys, this is 627 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: to me, one of the biggest kind of potential future 628 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: problems from even from a personal finance perspective, is the 629 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: lack of close friends that people have, that look that 630 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: people say they have, that is doing a number on 631 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: us from a mental perspective, And don't you think that 632 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: comes out in lots of other ways, in particular, like 633 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: ways of spending. I think it's easier to stay at 634 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: home and watch Netflix and buy stuff on Amazon than 635 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: it is to go out and get a coffee or 636 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: a beer with friends. And I don't care if you 637 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: go to the bar and you spend extra or you 638 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,719 Speaker 1: go to the coffee shop and you spind extra. If 639 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: it's facilitating relationships, then I think that ultimately leads to 640 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: greater mental health, which leads to more clarity around money stuff. 641 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 3: I agree, Yeah, the thing that pays the most dividends 642 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 3: in the bank of life is relationships, So don't forget 643 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 3: to invest in those, folks. I just had COVID, I 644 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 3: just recovered, and I was I didn't stay at my house. 645 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 3: I was like, I can't get my wife sick. I 646 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 3: gotta go and stay here at the studio at the office. 647 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 3: So I stayed at the office and I was here 648 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 3: for a few days it had really big divorced dad 649 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 3: energy right the little air mackets right next to my desk, 650 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 3: and it was so lonely. I couldn't believe how sad 651 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 3: and isolating and terrible I felt. And it was only 652 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 3: a few days. And if my friends were texting me 653 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 3: and checking in on me, and I just you know, 654 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 3: I couldn't go to the gym and interact with my 655 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 3: normal people that I interact with on a daily basis. 656 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 3: I couldn't go just like pick up the guitar and 657 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 3: jam with my buddies. And it really those three little 658 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 3: days of almost no symptoms, being stuck and you know, 659 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 3: reading books, but a lot of it, a lot of 660 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 3: like what would pass the time is like watching rewatching 661 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 3: Frasier or you know, looking into my stupid phone screen. 662 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 3: It really made me feel like made me recognize, ooh, 663 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 3: the Internet. It's making starting to make me feel bad, 664 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 3: like it doesn't it used to. Not that it used 665 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 3: to be fun. Maybe I was ignorant before, but too 666 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 3: much of it is. It's like, you know, eating way 667 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 3: too much ice cream is really not feeling good these days. 668 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's I think there's there's a 669 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: lack of trusting specific organizations and and in in local institutions, 670 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: which is, you know, understandable in some ways, but it's 671 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: also we have to we have to fight to be 672 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: like be pillars in those institutions and be there in 673 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: our neighborhood, be there for the people that we're close to. 674 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: And and I think, yeah, no, I think you're spot on. 675 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: I think like just a little bit of solitude, Like 676 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: some solitude is good, Like you need some alone time, 677 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: you need some personal time. But connection is something that 678 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: we're missing a whole lot these days. And it just 679 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: it's not the same online. It's not the same when 680 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: it's you know, when it's sporadic, or when it's even 681 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: text messaging. I think text messaging it should facilitate in 682 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: person interaction. It shouldn't replace it. But for a lot 683 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: of people, oh well, I talked to my friend Kim 684 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: today or my friend John, but that's insufficient. A phone 685 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: call is better, right, But in person is a necessity, really, 686 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: if for for everyone. And yeah, you experienced just a 687 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: little bit of that, like just removing that and how 688 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: it just ramps up all these other feelings in you 689 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: that can have negative side effects. 690 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 3: Totally, Jill. I don't want you to take this the 691 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 3: wrong way, but you have such grandpa energy, and that's 692 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 3: how I think you approach finances, which I really like 693 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 3: in life and how life impacts your finances. But you're like, 694 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 3: get back to the simple things. Ride your bike, let 695 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 3: the wind blow in your face, you know, don't make 696 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 3: things overly complicated, Participate in your community, be frugal, but 697 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 3: not overly frugal. And all of this is just like 698 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 3: such a durable grandpa vibes. So thank you for bringing 699 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 3: the ground vibes. 700 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 4: I'll take that. Yes, I believe it, man, I really do, 701 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 4: down to my core. 702 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I was out hiking my local little hiking 703 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: trails this morning, three and a half miles with a 704 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: friend and long, long old conversation outdoors, like I take 705 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: my medicine, and I think that it's I mean, I 706 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: see how it impacts me, and I feel like that's 707 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: the root cause of a whole lot of negative things 708 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: in our culture right now. And so if literally, if 709 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: we would just get outside and hang out with a friend. 710 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: It sounds so stupid simple, but oh my gosh, it 711 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: will change a whole lot for you if you do 712 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: it regularly. 713 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 3: No, this makes me feel better because people will ask 714 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 3: me all the time, like, you know, what's your advice 715 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,239 Speaker 3: for people have agency over their finances, and you know, 716 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 3: I'll give the normal prescriptive stuff focused on what you 717 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 3: can control, and then I'll launch into something that feels 718 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 3: completely unrelated. And I'm like, I'm so sorry to have 719 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 3: to say this, but like, get enough sleep, drink it 720 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 3: enough water, eat nw tree at dense foods. You know, 721 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 3: exercise your body every day, go outside, let the sunshine 722 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 3: hit your adorable face, and I promise you like it 723 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 3: sounds so silly to make these recommendations, especially as it 724 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 3: relates to the world of money and our relationship to it. 725 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 3: But like you mentioned earlier, everything is interconnected, and how 726 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 3: you do one thing is how you do everything, and 727 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 3: one thing has a huge impact on the other thing. 728 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 3: Sometimes you don't see that correlation until you start to 729 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 3: practice it in your own life. So thanks for preaching 730 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 3: the simplicity and things that you know seem unrelated but 731 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 3: do have an impact. 732 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm glad to preach it. I'll never stop preaching it, hopefully. 733 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 3: Okay, So I was watching a Larry David interview or truthfully, 734 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 3: I think it was served to me as a clip 735 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 3: on probably social media. I can't remember what talk show 736 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 3: he was on, but he was talking about he always 737 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 3: used to worry about money, always used to worry about money, stress, stress, stress, 738 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 3: and then he got money, and then he says, then 739 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 3: I just found something else to worry and be stressed about. Right, 740 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 3: he transferred it. And I kind of find myself like that, 741 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 3: Like the less I worry about money, the more I 742 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,280 Speaker 3: worry about, you know, the big thing, mortality, like health. 743 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 3: And I'm wondering, have you noticed that your stress has 744 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 3: transferred from money to something else. 745 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 1: I think I still stress about money sometimes, but I'm 746 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: stressed about like I have a few rental properties and 747 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: so I'm stressed about handling that stuff well, or you know, 748 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: like repairs to the car or something like that. I mean, 749 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: there's always there's always something to stress about. 750 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 4: I think. 751 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,879 Speaker 1: I think sometimes people think, oh, if I get money right, 752 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: then like the stress goes away, And I don't think 753 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 1: that's true. And I don't think the money stress necessarily 754 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: goes away altogether either, But it doesn't mean that. But 755 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: there are a whole lot of things that a lack 756 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: of money creates, and there are a whole lot of 757 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: problems that that creates. That it's it's worth striving to 758 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: become better with your money so that you have more 759 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: of it and that you have more options that you 760 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: have you don't have a credit card debt, a credit 761 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: card bill that you can't pay right That adds more stress. 762 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: That's more stressful than the stresses I'm dealing with. So 763 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: I do think that you can't eradicate them. But so 764 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: I think, like the negative downside of not having enough 765 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: money is a problem, but I don't think it necessarily 766 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: having and I think that there are problems on the 767 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: other side of having too much money like that there's 768 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,760 Speaker 1: a lot of stress that comes along with that. About 769 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,439 Speaker 1: like the lottery winners, like we mentioned, are the people 770 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: who are reaching out to you to hang out, Do 771 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: they actually care about you? Now, I like, I have 772 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 1: no desire to have that kind of that much money 773 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: because I don't want to be suspect of all my 774 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: friends and relationships at that point. But getting to a 775 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: place where you have enough and you don't have just 776 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: really crappy debts hanging over you, or you haven't saved 777 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: anything for emergencies or for retirement. I think that's yeah, 778 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:08,959 Speaker 1: we want to get there. We want to get people there, 779 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: not stressing about like can I put food on the 780 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: table and can I buy the car that I need 781 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: to get my family around those kind of things. 782 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, you want to choose your problems as best you can, 783 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 3: is what it sounds like. 784 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. 785 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,439 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of problems that choose you when 786 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: you don't have enough money, right, and and so and 787 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: again it's not easy. And there's a whole lot of 788 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: folks who need more than just more than just money. 789 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: It's not going to fix the problem, but having more 790 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: money helps overcome a lot of those a lot of 791 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: those problems too. 792 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 3: It sure does. It solves a lot of upstream issues 793 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 3: for sure. I'm curious. We heard a little bit about 794 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 3: your story with your parents, their relationship to money, and 795 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 3: how it's impacted you. Now that you're a parent. How 796 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 3: do you approach money with your kids? 797 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: So it's I think there's two elements to it. One 798 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,839 Speaker 1: is how you behave matters a whole lot, right, and 799 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: so how I handle money and deal with it on 800 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: a regular, ongoing basis, how I talk about it with 801 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: them matters. But it's really like your kids follow your example. 802 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: And so if I'm saying, hey, you should be you 803 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: should be you know, kind to your friends. You should 804 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: be respectful to your mom or to your friend's mom. 805 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 1: But I'm not respectful in my conversations, like they're going 806 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: to be like, well, I'm going to do what dad does, 807 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: not what he says, And so so much of it 808 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: is modeling and modeling things well, but so much of 809 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: it is also including them in those conversations. 810 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,399 Speaker 4: Earlier, the earlier the better. 811 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 1: I saw somebody the other day or read an article 812 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: I think maybe and they said, oh, you should start 813 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: talking to your kids about money or no. I think 814 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: it was a survey and the average American said fifteen 815 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: is probably when you should start talking to your kids 816 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: about money. And I'm like, no way. It seems to 817 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: have a way sooner, right, And it's it's small things 818 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: like finding ways to get money into their hands for 819 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: doing work around the house and then letting them make 820 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: decisions about what they do with their money and kind 821 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: of correlating the money to work thing, because that's how 822 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: most of us get money, is through the work that 823 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: we do, and then saying like cool, let's talk about 824 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: saving and spending. Let's talk about do you want this 825 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: thing now or do you want that other thing to 826 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: save up more to get the bigger, nicer thing in 827 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: the future. So and as my kids get older they're ten, 828 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,839 Speaker 1: eight and four right now. As they get older, those 829 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,280 Speaker 1: conversations are going to change too. And as my oldest 830 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 1: daughter gets a job, which I would love for her 831 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: to get a job in high school, I had one. 832 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 4: It was a game changer for me. 833 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: And just because you learn to relate to the people 834 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: you're working for, you're working with differently than a teacher. 835 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,919 Speaker 1: And plus it gives you even more of that kind 836 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: of like you know, paycheck coming in and what do 837 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: you do with it? But yeah, I want to incentivize 838 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: them in the right ways as they get older. But 839 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,280 Speaker 1: right now, so much of it is modeling and it's teaching, 840 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,359 Speaker 1: and it's not just some sort of like sit down 841 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: birds and the bees kind of chat. 842 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 4: Right, This is how it works, kids. 843 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: It is more in the little things about what we 844 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: choose to do with our money. They'll ask questions about 845 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: how much we make. I don't shoot those down, you know. 846 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: They'll ask questions about going on a vacation, how much 847 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: did that cost? 848 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 4: You know? 849 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: And I love that that the conversation window is open 850 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: and we can have a discussion. And I don't always 851 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: give them the answer they're looking for, right, Like what's 852 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: the net worth? 853 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 2: Dad? 854 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:17,359 Speaker 4: I mean they haven't asked me that yet. 855 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: That would be that would probably not just be a 856 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: flat answer, but it would be a conversation about instead 857 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: of just like a, well it's twenty six million dollars kids, 858 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: which it's not. 859 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 3: Oh but how how happy will you be the day 860 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 3: that one of your kids finally does ask you what 861 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 3: your net worth is? 862 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 4: Yeah? 863 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: Well the fact that they'll know the term is going 864 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: to be impressive to me. Yes, I'll be like, all right, 865 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: great question. Let's have a conversation about that. What do 866 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: you know what networth really means? And do you know 867 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: how it takes time to grow that net worth? And 868 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 1: how what are the levers and mechanisms behind actually doing that? 869 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 3: So I love that. So Joel, I want to know 870 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 3: you know, you spend all your days reading about money, 871 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 3: learning about money, translating money, making a podcast, running a website, 872 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 3: publishing a newsletter. What's on the horizon? What are emerging 873 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 3: financial trends that you think is going to kind of 874 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 3: shape the next few years or even the decade. 875 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 4: You know, it's funny. 876 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: I think like what we were talking about earlier, kind 877 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: of the loneliness epidemic and stuff. I feel like I 878 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: could say something like artificial intelligence, which is true in 879 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:20,800 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, like that's going to have a 880 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: big impact on the future of money. But I think 881 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,280 Speaker 1: it is these cultural trends that are leading us to 882 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 1: spend less time with our friends and neighbors, that are 883 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: causing more isolation, that are creating their feeding into bad 884 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: financial habits. 885 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 4: Right. 886 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: They're making it feel more okay to not be interrelated 887 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 1: with one another, and I think they're taking us down 888 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,799 Speaker 1: some dark paths from social emotional standpoints that then lead 889 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: to bad money habits because all that stuff's intertwined. Talk 890 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: to a money therapist, right, or like, all of that 891 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: stuff is how we feel impacts, how we spend impacts 892 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: whether or not. If we feel good about the future, 893 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: if we're hopeful, then there's a whole lot more reason 894 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: to sock money away in a roth ira if if 895 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: we're feeling down and depressed, like who cares about getting 896 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: the match on the four to one k from work 897 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: because am I really gonna Is the world going to 898 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: be a better place in twenty or thirty years? And 899 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: if we think negatively, it's gonna impact the actions that 900 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,280 Speaker 1: we take, and those actions impact our future. 901 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a heavy diagnosis, but it seems like, you know, 902 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,399 Speaker 3: the medicine is a little bit simple. It's getting back 903 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 3: to basis having very strong Grandpa energy when it comes 904 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 3: to community, in minding your relationships. 905 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: Come to my. 906 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 4: Potluck, Pocoh, it's gonna be great. 907 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 3: It's I have the perfect sweater for it. I can't 908 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:42,759 Speaker 3: wait for great. 909 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,399 Speaker 4: I'm gonna wear my argy. I'll sock. 910 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 3: I knew it. 911 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: I knew. 912 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 2: Joe. 913 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,400 Speaker 3: I want to hit you with some rapid fire questions 914 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,399 Speaker 3: to end out the interview. Are you ready for them? 915 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 4: I was born ready? 916 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 3: Tell me? Is there is there anything that you've purchased 917 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,839 Speaker 3: that maybe to the naked eye seems like like it 918 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 3: was frivolous, But for you, is money well spent? 919 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,720 Speaker 1: The biggest thing For me? We talked about biking. I 920 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,799 Speaker 1: have an e bike, an E cargo bike. It's called 921 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,840 Speaker 1: a rad wagon, and so a lot of people they 922 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: might say fifteen hundred bucks on a bike that's crazy town, 923 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: but I use it to I took my son to 924 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: school this morning on it, and we've had so many adventures. 925 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: But it also saves car trips. You can go to 926 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,799 Speaker 1: the grocery store because it's a cargo bike. You can 927 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: like slap your groceries on the back and stuff like that, 928 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,239 Speaker 1: and it's just a much more enjoyable way to get 929 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,319 Speaker 1: basically anywhere, and you know, get a little exercise while 930 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: you're at it, get a little fresh air. So I 931 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 1: think some people would say that that's an insane amount 932 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: of money to spend on a bike, But when you've 933 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: got like cheap cars and stuff like that and you 934 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,879 Speaker 1: rely more on that as a mode of transportation, it's 935 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: money well spent. 936 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 3: I love that I had a bike around. I have 937 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 3: a bike that is also expensive carbon fibers. So I'm 938 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 3: right there with you. 939 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 4: Ooh you fancy it than me? 940 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 3: Can I say? You know, my I grew up in 941 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 3: a household where my dad is a very avid cyclist. 942 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,360 Speaker 3: This history of like being a gnarly cyclist for like 943 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:05,760 Speaker 3: seven or eight years of my life. 944 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: Do you wear the spandex outfits because I refuse to 945 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: go that far. 946 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 3: Oh, this is embarrassing. I have. I have worn the 947 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 3: Spandex outfits and listen, I'm not proud of it. 948 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 4: No judgment, no judgment. 949 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,400 Speaker 3: It's not something I want to try to admit publicly. 950 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 3: But you asked me, so I answered, I put you 951 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,360 Speaker 3: on the spot. You got me. What's one piece of advice, 952 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 3: financial or otherwise that you'd give to your younger self. 953 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,800 Speaker 1: I think I would probably say, don't be afraid to 954 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,279 Speaker 1: live differently, because I think that's half the battle, is 955 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: like getting over what seems normal, what people perceive as normal, 956 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: and being I mean, this is weird finance, right, Like, 957 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 1: so get a little freaking weird with it, be cool 958 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: with being you lean into that a little bit harder, 959 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: because that allows you to make the abnormal choice and 960 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,719 Speaker 1: not feel bad about it. There's so many people, it 961 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: is amazing, Especially so I moved from in town part 962 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 1: of the city out to the suburbs, and I see 963 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: it so much more even in the burbs than I 964 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,960 Speaker 1: did in the city. There's something about like leaning into 965 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: the weirdness. In the city that's totally fine, you do you, 966 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,760 Speaker 1: And in the burbs it's like, so do what everybody 967 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: else is doing, and me I'm gonna keep weird. I'm 968 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 1: gonna stay doing my thing. I don't want to necessarily 969 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,719 Speaker 1: be like everybody else, but I see everybody else kind 970 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: of for so many other people playing that game, and 971 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 1: I think that's so that influence. It's subtle, it's hard 972 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 1: to pinpoint sometimes, but I feel like that is such 973 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: an influence on people when it comes to how they save, 974 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: spend and think about their money, and so, yeah, if 975 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: you can think about think about it a little differently, 976 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 1: be willing to live differently than I think, it's going 977 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: to give you more control, more options in the future, 978 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 1: and just like you probably feel better about the direction 979 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:47,279 Speaker 1: you're headed in. 980 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 3: That's so interesting. I've never heard anyone relate it in 981 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,279 Speaker 3: terms of when I was in the city, I had 982 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,879 Speaker 3: more permission to be myself and in the suburbs there's less. 983 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 3: But I felt that personally growing up, right. I grew 984 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 3: up in Orange County, California, which is rather a conservative 985 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 3: part of southern California, and nobody was like it very 986 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,480 Speaker 3: much felt like being queer down there was not a 987 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 3: good vibe, like people were uncomfortable with it. And then 988 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 3: they moved to the city and I was like Oh, 989 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 3: that's cool. How you guys are just normal with who 990 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 3: I am as a person. I really appreciate that. I 991 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,440 Speaker 3: like that. And so I felt it in the reverse, 992 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 3: and I thought, maybe, oh, maybe that was like an 993 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 3: old timey thing, right, because people are, you know, much 994 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,839 Speaker 3: more open and less judgmental, and they're just less weird 995 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,560 Speaker 3: about people being queer these days. But sounds like it's 996 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 3: still a little bit there. So that's that's fascinating. 997 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: Huh or yeah, And sometimes it's not even quite as 998 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,359 Speaker 1: much about about your lifestyle in that way or your 999 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,000 Speaker 1: sexual preferences. It's it's just like, oh, a big honk 1000 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: and Ford Bronco is normal here, whereas in town. I 1001 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: don't know, it just it was less. Fewer people felt 1002 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: compelled to make the same sort of lifestyle choices from 1003 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: a consumption standpoint, and it just nobody cared about what 1004 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,880 Speaker 1: you were consuming or what you're wearing. My little my 1005 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 1: daughter felt it the first day at school, in the 1006 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,479 Speaker 1: school up here, and there's so many great things about 1007 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,680 Speaker 1: the school, but it's like, oh, you don't dress right, 1008 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,400 Speaker 1: you don't really know what the style. 1009 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:11,759 Speaker 4: Is like up here. 1010 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,319 Speaker 1: Girl, Let me tell you, let me fill you in 1011 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:15,360 Speaker 1: and kind of where we came from, it was like 1012 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,279 Speaker 1: everybody does their own thing, so nobody nobody's critiquing what 1013 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 1: you're wearing or anything like that. 1014 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:20,799 Speaker 4: And and maybe. 1015 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,040 Speaker 1: It's I don't know, there's so many things that could 1016 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 1: be influencing that, but I remember that from growing up myself, 1017 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: like in in suburban public schools, where there was that 1018 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: kind of push to fit in. And but the truth 1019 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,959 Speaker 1: is the coolest people are the ones who who stand 1020 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,080 Speaker 1: out and do something differently. 1021 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,440 Speaker 3: So totally you should tell your daughter to be like, 1022 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 3: you don't know about this style. 1023 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 1: I mean, oh my gosh, I'm pushing I'm always pushing 1024 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,360 Speaker 1: her to be weird. Like we always have that conversation. 1025 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,160 Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, they be you, do you? And 1026 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 1: and people are going to respect that, and so like 1027 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: they might say things and you might feel a little uncomfortable, 1028 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,960 Speaker 1: but lean further into who you are and who you 1029 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: want to be your style, and people will be like, oh, 1030 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,400 Speaker 1: in the back of their mind, they're at least thinking, 1031 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 1: she knows what she wants, she's cool, she's got she's confident. 1032 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:12,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely, did you have any financial superstitions growing up? By chance? 1033 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 1: Financial superstitions, I'm trying to think, well, not really, I guess, 1034 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,439 Speaker 1: I mean, I I guess one, well, one little thing 1035 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,960 Speaker 1: is just that like hard work always equals financial reward, 1036 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,719 Speaker 1: and I think hard work is a really good thing, 1037 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,319 Speaker 1: and but it doesn't. It's you could work really, really 1038 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,279 Speaker 1: hard as a greeter at Walmart and your income isn't 1039 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,880 Speaker 1: going to be nearly as high as someone who doesn't 1040 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,759 Speaker 1: work terribly hard at their you know whatever, white collar job. 1041 00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: And so hard work is a good principle to live by, 1042 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,200 Speaker 1: but hard work doesn't equal bigger paychecks necessarily. 1043 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,279 Speaker 3: That's a great insight. Thanks Joel. Last one for you. 1044 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 3: Do you have any financial fumbles that you can look 1045 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:57,359 Speaker 3: back on and laugh at? 1046 00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 1: Fumbles I got look back on, oh Man, Yeah, yeah, 1047 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,279 Speaker 1: for sure. I mean, I think for the biggest thing 1048 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: was just just being locked into the hyper frugal mindset 1049 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,120 Speaker 1: for so long, right, And it was just like what 1050 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:12,440 Speaker 1: was I doing? 1051 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,719 Speaker 4: I was seeing only. 1052 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:18,960 Speaker 1: One part of this massive thing that is personal finance, 1053 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 1: and I thought frugality was the hammer and everything was 1054 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,239 Speaker 1: a nail, and I wasn't seeing like all the good 1055 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:28,360 Speaker 1: that money could do. I was only concerned about saving 1056 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,479 Speaker 1: as much as possible, even if it meant buying something 1057 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,920 Speaker 1: that was massively inferior, that wasn't going to last me 1058 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,920 Speaker 1: as long, just making my life more difficult. So I 1059 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,799 Speaker 1: see that as like a perpetual fumble for me in 1060 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: those early years where I was just so like so 1061 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,920 Speaker 1: focused on that one aspect of personal finance, where like 1062 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,560 Speaker 1: I was remiss, I was not thinking about those other 1063 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,840 Speaker 1: ways or the ways that money could like benefit me 1064 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,800 Speaker 1: and make my life better. I was really just thinking 1065 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,759 Speaker 1: about save as much as possible, which is not really 1066 00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: a great place to be from a headspace perspective. 1067 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,840 Speaker 3: Joel, thank you so much for sharing all of your 1068 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 3: lessons that you've learned on your journey with your own 1069 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 3: you know, money at your own relationship to it, and 1070 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,640 Speaker 3: all the insights that you've gathered through seven hundred and 1071 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,760 Speaker 3: thirty episodes of how to Money. So, for the folks 1072 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,640 Speaker 3: that want to spend more time with you, where should 1073 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,880 Speaker 3: we direct them to go on our lovely world wide web. 1074 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Grandpa dentist community over at how to Money 1075 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,040 Speaker 1: is going strong and it accepts millennials and Gen z 1076 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,520 Speaker 1: ers too. The website is howtomoney dot com and you 1077 00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,000 Speaker 1: can you can listen to our podcast wherever, wherever you're 1078 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,080 Speaker 1: listening to Weird Finance as well. Yeah, no, always always 1079 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: great to chat with you, Paco. I loved your book 1080 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,239 Speaker 1: and love what you're doing in the space too. That's 1081 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,440 Speaker 1: the cool thing is that, man. For a while, it 1082 00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,000 Speaker 1: was a couple of people that were the two or 1083 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,240 Speaker 1: three or four people who had big shows or whatever 1084 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,040 Speaker 1: that can influence folks. And now in the micro influencer community, 1085 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,759 Speaker 1: like I hate even the term influencer, but there's just 1086 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:03,840 Speaker 1: so much space bowl for people to reach a specific 1087 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,920 Speaker 1: audience who needs to hear your specific voice. So yeah, 1088 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,279 Speaker 1: I've been a fan of yours for a long time 1089 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: and I love what you're up to. 1090 00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,040 Speaker 3: Blackwise, Joel, thanks for coming on, and I'm sure our 1091 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,560 Speaker 3: paths will cross many, many, many many many times. 1092 00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:16,239 Speaker 4: For sure. I look forward to it. 1093 00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:17,000 Speaker 3: Take care, Joel,