1
00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:06,960
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio.

2
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:16,640
Speaker 1: Abolish I Abolish, I Abolish, Ilish.

3
00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,960
Speaker 2: I protests over ICE's arrest of Newark's mayor outside a

4
00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:24,439
Speaker 2: new federal immigration detention center on Friday. The arrest came

5
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,120
Speaker 2: after Mayor Ross Baraka tried to join three members of

6
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:34,160
Speaker 2: New Jersey's congressional delegation in an oversight visit. Democratic Congresswoman

7
00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,080
Speaker 2: Lamonica McIver said that I started pushing them as they

8
00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 2: went to arrest Baraka.

9
00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:45,520
Speaker 1: Would shoved everything. Literally the aggression that would just ruughy handled. Literally.

10
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 2: I mean nobody picked up a fence to punch us,

11
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:48,960
Speaker 2: but literally they pushed us.

12
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,040
Speaker 1: They actually ended and removed us out of the way

13
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:54,960
Speaker 1: to get to the mayor to arrest him.

14
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,560
Speaker 2: The mayor, who said he did nothing wrong, was arrested

15
00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,800
Speaker 2: on federal trespass charges in the public area outside the facility.

16
00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,360
Speaker 1: I didn't climb a fence. I didn't kick the door out.

17
00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,280
Speaker 1: I didn't bust the window like their friends did at

18
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:08,760
Speaker 1: the Capitol.

19
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,400
Speaker 2: I didn't hurt people joining me is immigration law expertly

20
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,480
Speaker 2: on Fresco, a partner at Honden Night Leon on the

21
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,119
Speaker 2: three New Jersey representatives said that they have the right

22
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,920
Speaker 2: to conduct oversight without prior notice, and they've done it

23
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,399
Speaker 2: three times this year. Is that unusual.

24
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: It is a very common thing in the history of

25
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 1: this framework where there are ice attention facilities, which is

26
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,319
Speaker 1: about a thirty year phenomenon, that Congress people go into

27
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,119
Speaker 1: these ice attention facilities and view them and monitor them.

28
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,840
Speaker 1: There is usually some coordination so that there can actually

29
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,360
Speaker 1: be a time and a date where the inspection takes place,

30
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,320
Speaker 1: or if there's not a coordination, there's usually some sort

31
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,120
Speaker 1: of event that takes place outside of the facility where

32
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, there's a press conference and they're using the

33
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 1: facility essentially as a background to complain about something or other.

34
00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,880
Speaker 1: Or the third way is they'll arrive at the facility

35
00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,040
Speaker 1: and they'll say, basically like if you would walk into

36
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,120
Speaker 1: an emergency room, Hey, I need to come in, and

37
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 1: then thirty minutes later maybe they'll be let in. The

38
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,480
Speaker 1: problem is when you're trying to combine all of these

39
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,160
Speaker 1: things into one event, which is we're trying to do

40
00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,959
Speaker 1: the emergency walk in and we're trying to do a

41
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 1: media event. That's where I think the people at the

42
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,919
Speaker 1: facility didn't manage it particularly well, and so there was

43
00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 1: this brew haha about whether there was trespassing and assault

44
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,120
Speaker 1: and pushing, and then there was a question as to

45
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,280
Speaker 1: what the mayor of Newark, New Jersey was doing. Was

46
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,400
Speaker 1: he trying to keep the peace or was he trying

47
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,679
Speaker 1: to escalate things and assault officers. And so that's where

48
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 1: he got arrested because at least ICE is claiming that

49
00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,760
Speaker 1: he was not part of the solution, but he was

50
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,440
Speaker 1: of the problem in terms of actually pushing his way

51
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,040
Speaker 1: through and trespassing and disregarding the commands of the ICE

52
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,679
Speaker 1: officers with regard to the movements within the facility. So

53
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,840
Speaker 1: from that perspective, that's going to be quite fascinating, to

54
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,200
Speaker 1: the extent that now the DHS spokesperson is threatening the

55
00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,080
Speaker 1: arrests of the House Democratic Congress members because they are

56
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,120
Speaker 1: protected under something called the Speech of the Bay Clause,

57
00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 1: which is if they are trying to basically show that

58
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 1: they can engage in functions that are pursued to their

59
00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,480
Speaker 1: duties in Congress, which they would say this falls within that,

60
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,280
Speaker 1: they're allowed to do that. But the Speech of the

61
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 1: Bay clause also has an exception for if you are

62
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,920
Speaker 1: committing this kind of assault and battery on someone, you're

63
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 1: not covered by the speech of the Bay clause. So

64
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,200
Speaker 1: this is actually going to be yet another interesting convergence

65
00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 1: of law, which is was there really an assault and

66
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 1: battery or was this a prevention of the congress people

67
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:04,560
Speaker 1: doing their job.

68
00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,080
Speaker 2: A Homeland Security spokeswoman said members of Congress assaulted ICE

69
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 2: agents and body slammed a female ICE officer. I just

70
00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,279
Speaker 2: want to note that one of the New Jersey representatives

71
00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,000
Speaker 2: is eighty years old. ICE claims it has video, but

72
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,320
Speaker 2: the only video they've released so far is from the

73
00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,440
Speaker 2: body cams of the ICE officers outside the facility, and

74
00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,920
Speaker 2: it just looks like chaos and confusion.

75
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,480
Speaker 1: I mean, all of those facilities, every inch of them,

76
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,400
Speaker 1: are under video and sound, so they would have it

77
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,720
Speaker 1: and we would know the answer to that question. And secondly,

78
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 1: all of those facilities, I've been to dozens of them,

79
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,720
Speaker 1: both when I was in the government and in representing

80
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,039
Speaker 1: foreign nationals who are Unfortunately in those facilities, you can't

81
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,040
Speaker 1: move six feet without getting through some door or some

82
00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,520
Speaker 1: gate or something. There's nothing to storm. You'd be storming

83
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,240
Speaker 1: a metal door. That would be very painful to you.

84
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,040
Speaker 1: And so from that perspective it does seem unlikely. But

85
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,640
Speaker 1: because I haven't seen a video, I would need to

86
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:12,160
Speaker 1: reserve judgment on that. But nobody here has clean hands,

87
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,160
Speaker 1: because certainly there's a wait for a congress member to

88
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,920
Speaker 1: go into an ice facility that one hundred percent of

89
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,040
Speaker 1: the time has to happen and has to be allowed.

90
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,520
Speaker 1: But by the same token, there is probably an escalation

91
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,000
Speaker 1: that occurred there when they didn't get exactly what they

92
00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,839
Speaker 1: wanted when they wanted it, and this is what leads

93
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,880
Speaker 1: to these unfortunate conflagrations.

94
00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,160
Speaker 2: So the mayor said he was there along with the

95
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 2: New Jersey representatives, but does he have a right to

96
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 2: be there as the mayor well.

97
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,720
Speaker 1: So this is actually an interesting part of what is

98
00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 1: currently subject to a lot of federal litigation which hasn't

99
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,760
Speaker 1: been decided in the Supreme Court yet, which is what

100
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 1: rights do states and localities have over these detention facilities

101
00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,800
Speaker 1: in their states and local For instance, California has passed

102
00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,400
Speaker 1: laws in the past that say you can't have these

103
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:11,440
Speaker 1: ice attention facilities in California, and the courts, at least

104
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,360
Speaker 1: the Ninth Circuit is held that that's preempted and that

105
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,480
Speaker 1: the federal government is allowed to function even in a

106
00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,920
Speaker 1: state or a locality that says that the federal government

107
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,880
Speaker 1: can't have these kinds of ice facilities in their city.

108
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: But then their question is, well, what about licensing requirements?

109
00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 1: What about environmental requirements? Are all of those preempted? And

110
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,880
Speaker 1: yet again, these are issues that aren't fully decided in

111
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 1: the courts. Is what jurisdiction or what guidance or supervision

112
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,160
Speaker 1: of any kind would a mayor of a town have

113
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,400
Speaker 1: over an immigration detention facility in their city. Can they

114
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,920
Speaker 1: do anything at all? Or is it one hundred percent

115
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 1: preempted such that when they arrive at such a facility,

116
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,360
Speaker 1: they are no different than you or I, just a

117
00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,320
Speaker 1: private citizen, and whatever they do, if they try to desert,

118
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 1: additional pressure could lead them to being arrested.

119
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,560
Speaker 2: The mayor's office is claiming that the facility is operating

120
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,320
Speaker 2: without a valid certificate of occupancy, but more than a

121
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 2: dozen federal agents arrested him on federal trespassing charges in

122
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,000
Speaker 2: a public area outside of facility that's owned by a

123
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,440
Speaker 2: private prison company.

124
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,000
Speaker 1: Is that a problem, Well, it would be a problem

125
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 1: if he didn't actually engage in a crime. Then arresting

126
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,160
Speaker 1: him is going to be a huge problem. And obviously

127
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,120
Speaker 1: any time that happened, the person could file a lawsuit

128
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,000
Speaker 1: and tried to get damages under the Federal Toward Claims Act.

129
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,679
Speaker 1: So there's definitely possibilities of that if that's really what happened.

130
00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,120
Speaker 1: But again this is going to have to be subject

131
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,840
Speaker 1: to the video and the recordings to see what happened,

132
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,280
Speaker 1: and also then subject to these legal conclusions about what

133
00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,360
Speaker 1: jurisdiction does a mayor have, what was the mayor doing,

134
00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,240
Speaker 1: was the mayor inside when the mayor shouldn't have been,

135
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,960
Speaker 1: or was the mayor arrested for absolutely no reason? So

136
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,520
Speaker 1: we will just have to wait and see. But definitely

137
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 1: a very fascinating sequence of events that occurred last week.

138
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 2: I mean, if Ice actually had a video showing this,

139
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,559
Speaker 2: wouldn't they have released it to back up their point?

140
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:19,800
Speaker 2: We would already have.

141
00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,080
Speaker 1: Seen it many times. I would have seen the video,

142
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 1: I agree. I agree scenes most likely if you have

143
00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,400
Speaker 1: a video, it would have been seen, especially since the

144
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,199
Speaker 1: mayor has specifically called on them to produce a video.

145
00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 1: The fact that they have not produced a video, you know,

146
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,839
Speaker 1: I think what the mayor should probably want to do

147
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,640
Speaker 1: now is to try to poia the video to file

148
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,760
Speaker 1: a freedom of information I requise and or the media

149
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,719
Speaker 1: can do this, and if there are no videos, then

150
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,440
Speaker 1: that's going to be the end of the story there.

151
00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,120
Speaker 2: When you take the mayor's arrest with the arrest of

152
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,760
Speaker 2: the judge in Wisconsin, do you think this is the

153
00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:01,240
Speaker 2: federal authorities warning local officials stay out of our business.

154
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,160
Speaker 1: Well, I think the arrest of the judge is far

155
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 1: more justified than the arrest of the Newark mayor, and

156
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 1: that the judge was openly impeding a request from ICE

157
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,440
Speaker 1: to be able to actually pick someone up in the courtroom. Now,

158
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,360
Speaker 1: the judge is going to have her explanation that she's

159
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,679
Speaker 1: trying to manage her courtroom and the safety of the

160
00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,959
Speaker 1: facility and the ability to have a docket because she

161
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,600
Speaker 1: won't have a docket if ICE is operating in her court.

162
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 1: So fine, there's defenses for that. But the Newark mayor,

163
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,599
Speaker 1: at least if one believes his account, he's saying he

164
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,400
Speaker 1: was just there supporting his members of Congress and just

165
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,319
Speaker 1: making sure that the facility was up to code, so

166
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,319
Speaker 1: to speak, and as soon as he was told to

167
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,440
Speaker 1: VAK he did so. This is the question. Now, maybe

168
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,200
Speaker 1: he didn't, but again, like we discussed, and the video

169
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,720
Speaker 1: is going to answer all of those questions. But if

170
00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,920
Speaker 1: there's no video showing him basically trying to barge into

171
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 1: a facility where he's been told to leave and he's

172
00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 1: not used physical force to do that, I think an

173
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,840
Speaker 1: arrest there is going to be very difficult to justify.

174
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 2: I've been talking to Leon Fresco, the former head of

175
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,920
Speaker 2: the Office of Immigration Litigation in the Obama administration and

176
00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 2: a partner at Honden Knight.

177
00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:16,200
Speaker 1: Leon.

178
00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,240
Speaker 2: Let's turn to the very high profile arrests of several

179
00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:24,040
Speaker 2: foreign graduate students. A couple have been released from custody.

180
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:29,720
Speaker 2: A doctoral student at Toughs was released after six weeks

181
00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 2: in detention. What happened there?

182
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 1: So she is one of the three sort of big

183
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 1: students in terms of there was the original Columbia student,

184
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,439
Speaker 1: Madmud Khalil, then there was an additional student who was

185
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,600
Speaker 1: also a Columbia student, and there is ur the tough

186
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 1: student Rubsaya os third who all are under that same

187
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:57,480
Speaker 1: guys where Secretary of State Rubio said that this individual

188
00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,839
Speaker 1: had to lead the United States because they were that

189
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,360
Speaker 1: ttrumental to the foreign policy interests of the United States.

190
00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,959
Speaker 1: So it's not even the typical student visa cases that

191
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,200
Speaker 1: are happening, which is that a student visa is being revolved,

192
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,199
Speaker 1: and when the student visa is being revolved, then the

193
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,280
Speaker 1: student is just in flux. No, this is sort of

194
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,840
Speaker 1: the nuclear bomb version of this, which is we are

195
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 1: saying that you are basically no different than a foreign dictator.

196
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 1: You're that bad. You being here hurts America's foreign policy.

197
00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 1: We have to keep you in detention, and we have

198
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,600
Speaker 1: to remove you once we can, as soon as we can.

199
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,160
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, you're in detention. So all three

200
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,400
Speaker 1: of these individuals have filed federal habeas claims, and two

201
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 1: of them, so one of the Columbia students, most in Madawi,

202
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,920
Speaker 1: and now this tough student, have been released because these

203
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,880
Speaker 1: judges are finding they're not making the final judgment with

204
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,439
Speaker 1: regard to some rejudgment on the statute being unconstitutional, but

205
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,760
Speaker 1: seems to be where they're headed because they're saying, as

206
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,640
Speaker 1: a matter of injunctive relief, we're going to do two

207
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,480
Speaker 1: things that are quite stunning as legal conclusion. You know,

208
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,160
Speaker 1: it's not clear that the Supreme Court ultimately will allow this.

209
00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,800
Speaker 1: We'll have to wait and see. But they said, first

210
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,160
Speaker 1: of all, we're going to accept jurisdiction of these claims,

211
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 1: and that's very remarkable because we don't know that that's

212
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,320
Speaker 1: actually going to be the way the law plays out

213
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,520
Speaker 1: at the end of this, because the Department of Justice

214
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,680
Speaker 1: is saying, no, you have to have the deportation proceeding first,

215
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,720
Speaker 1: and then if there's a deportation ordered, only then can

216
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 1: you make these constitutional claims. So you have to be

217
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,640
Speaker 1: in attention the whole time to challenge the constitutionality of

218
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,480
Speaker 1: the statute and then you can do it. So the

219
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:44,319
Speaker 1: court is saying no, no, no, no, you can do

220
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,959
Speaker 1: this upfront in a habeas position. So a there's that,

221
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 1: And then secondly, we find that there's sort of this

222
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,640
Speaker 1: injunction standard, a likelihood of success that you will be

223
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,520
Speaker 1: able to actually show that there's a problem with this

224
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,400
Speaker 1: statute such that we're going to release you from the tension.

225
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 1: And so you now have that in two of the

226
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,960
Speaker 1: three cases. We're waiting for what the judge is going

227
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,160
Speaker 1: to do in the third case. But it seems like

228
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:16,240
Speaker 1: the courts aren't concerned about what is the limiting principle

229
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,680
Speaker 1: for the Secretary of State to be able to say

230
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,599
Speaker 1: that someone is harmful to the foreign policy interests of

231
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,240
Speaker 1: the United States and just kick them out without any

232
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,160
Speaker 1: sort of limiting principle as to what that means. And

233
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,959
Speaker 1: I think if the government doesn't do a better job

234
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,120
Speaker 1: of articulating a limiting principle, it's going to have a

235
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,560
Speaker 1: much tougher time defending these types of deportations in the court.

236
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,280
Speaker 2: Is this without precedent to have the Secretary of State

237
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,400
Speaker 2: use this provision in this way or is there law

238
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:46,640
Speaker 2: on this.

239
00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,679
Speaker 1: Well, they use it all the time for things like,

240
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, a dictator seeks in the country, or some

241
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,679
Speaker 1: terrorists or something. They've used it for that. But to

242
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,360
Speaker 1: use it in a situation where it's a foreign student

243
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,560
Speaker 1: who with you know, maybe articulating things that are very

244
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,719
Speaker 1: unseemly an unclear, you know, we'll have to have that

245
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,760
Speaker 1: debate as to each of these students, what they did,

246
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,600
Speaker 1: what they didn't do. But the point is there are

247
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 1: already grounds of deportation for giving material supports to terrorist organizations,

248
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,200
Speaker 1: and those would be much more within the compatibility of

249
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 1: how the immigration system usually works. If you could say, hey, look,

250
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 1: this person openly advocated for hamas or this person said

251
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,320
Speaker 1: to donate, or this person said to do this, you

252
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,360
Speaker 1: know whatever, it may be, okay, But this issue of

253
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 1: saying that by engaging in this protest, they are engaging

254
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,000
Speaker 1: in conduct that is outside of the foreign policy interests

255
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,000
Speaker 1: of the United States, then the question is, well, okay,

256
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 1: how does that determination get made? What are the limiting principles?

257
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,840
Speaker 1: And what prevents any Secretary of State from doing that

258
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,400
Speaker 1: for any reason whatsoever. So, for instance, let's say you

259
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:04,400
Speaker 1: called on to stop fleeing the American public. Could Secretary

260
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,840
Speaker 1: of State say, well, maybe we like that, but we

261
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 1: don't want you particularly upsetting China because we're insensitive trade negotiations,

262
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,600
Speaker 1: and so you couldn't do that either. You know, you

263
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 1: get supported for saying China is fleeing the American public

264
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,280
Speaker 1: on trade. So this is the question what is the

265
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,760
Speaker 1: limiting principle? And I think if that's not articulated, the

266
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,200
Speaker 1: courts are going to say, look, there's a vagueness problem

267
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 1: with this statue. That becomes quite concerning to So suppose.

268
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 2: She wins this round, what happens when her student visa expires?

269
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,360
Speaker 1: Well, so this is what's bizarre about a student visa

270
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,600
Speaker 1: unless and until the administration does new regulations to change this.

271
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,400
Speaker 1: A student visa actually, once you're in the US doesn't

272
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,360
Speaker 1: expire ever if you want to remain a student for

273
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 1: the rest of your life here, So if you keep

274
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 1: doing programs, they can keep keeping you here as a student. Now,

275
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,960
Speaker 1: the question is how much money do you have to

276
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,040
Speaker 1: be able to do this over and over again. But

277
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,240
Speaker 1: it is fair to say if they tried to change

278
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,760
Speaker 1: their status to anything else, they may have a tough

279
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,240
Speaker 1: time doing it, no doubt about it.

280
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 2: It's about due process. And you know, we had the

281
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,840
Speaker 2: President last week saying he's not sure about due process,

282
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 2: and different people in the administration saying that due process

283
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,400
Speaker 2: rights are not accorded to immigrants, although we had Justice

284
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,280
Speaker 2: Scalia in an important opinion saying yes, due process is

285
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 2: accorded to immigrants. So, I mean, tell us about this

286
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,960
Speaker 2: whole due process argument.

287
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,720
Speaker 1: Well, we start with the words of the Constitution, as

288
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,320
Speaker 1: the Great Justice Kullia used to say, but it is

289
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,360
Speaker 1: a very fair point. Well why not actually start with

290
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,800
Speaker 1: the words of the Constitution. And if you were to

291
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,720
Speaker 1: do what's called a control f or you know, a

292
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 1: word find in the Constitution. You would see that sometimes

293
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,720
Speaker 1: the Constitution uses the words citizen, and sometimes it doesn't

294
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 1: use the words citizen. And so for the due process

295
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,920
Speaker 1: clause of the Constitution, and it does not use the

296
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,920
Speaker 1: word citizen. It uses the word person. And so there's

297
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,959
Speaker 1: a lot of case saw that it said that because

298
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,440
Speaker 1: the due process clause uses the word person and that citizen,

299
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 1: it doesn't only apply to citizens. It applies to person.

300
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 1: Now that's a separate question to Okay, So everybody has

301
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,440
Speaker 1: a right to do process. And I think you wouldn't

302
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,680
Speaker 1: find one justice who would say that that's not true,

303
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,399
Speaker 1: because I think the reason we know this is because

304
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,159
Speaker 1: we already had the nine to nothing decision in the

305
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,960
Speaker 1: cases involving the alien enemies at where the Supreme Court.

306
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,680
Speaker 1: You know, there was a debate about whether Trump one

307
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,480
Speaker 1: or the plaintiffs won. But in any case, what the

308
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 1: Supreme Court said is everybody gets a chance to come

309
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,439
Speaker 1: into court and say, I'm not an alien enemy. Are

310
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,040
Speaker 1: you out of your mind? I'm built from Cleveland. Why

311
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,640
Speaker 1: why am I being said to El Savador? I sell

312
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 1: vacuum cleaners and I was born in Cleveland. I don't

313
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,760
Speaker 1: I don't get it. And so everybody gets that right

314
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,679
Speaker 1: to go to court, and so everybody has that due process,

315
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: But the question is what process is due to you?

316
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 1: And I think this is where there's a debate here

317
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 1: about the Trump administration saying, look, we can't give all

318
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 1: of the people who entered the United States and set

319
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 1: the moment from everything that you hear, and they say,

320
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,159
Speaker 1: they claim at the moment that they're really concerned with

321
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 1: just a group of people who entered between twenty twenty

322
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,560
Speaker 1: one and twenty twenty four. They're saying, we'll get to

323
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 1: the people from before twenty twenty one later, but what

324
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,919
Speaker 1: they feel is the sort of bad act that they

325
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 1: need to remedy is to remove the people who came

326
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 1: from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four. And they're

327
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,440
Speaker 1: saying that that's millions of people, which it is. It's

328
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,960
Speaker 1: unclear how many millions, but it certainly is some number

329
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,880
Speaker 1: of millions of people. And what they're saying is there's

330
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 1: no way we can have a trial for each one

331
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,440
Speaker 1: of these people in immigration court, which is probably going

332
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 1: to be what ends up happening because a lot of

333
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:08,639
Speaker 1: these folks are from Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, Haiti, China at

334
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,200
Speaker 1: other places where they can ask for asylum. And so

335
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,200
Speaker 1: when these folks are asking for asylum, they will have

336
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 1: to have a trial about whether they're going to be

337
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 1: persecuted when you send them back. And so this is

338
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 1: the problem. The administration is saying, there's no way we

339
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 1: can do this. How are we going to be able

340
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 1: to get all of these people out? So you have

341
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 1: some understanding of what they're saying. But by the same token,

342
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,119
Speaker 1: the other side says, but if you don't do this

343
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 1: on a case by case basis, you're going to remove

344
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: people who our law say you can't remove. And so

345
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 1: there's no other way to do this. You know, it

346
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 1: might be nice to be able to have some sort

347
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,600
Speaker 1: of group thing going on, but that's not how it works.

348
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,440
Speaker 1: Everybody has to make their case and that's what the

349
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 1: current law is. And so this is the question. It's

350
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 1: definitely not practical. There's no dispute to what Trump is

351
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,440
Speaker 1: saying is that it it's not practical to have a

352
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 1: trial for every single person. But in the end, the

353
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: trial is not for the evil gang members benefit. It's

354
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,920
Speaker 1: for build from Cleveland's benefit to be able to say, hey,

355
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 1: I'm built from Cleveland. Why did you arrest me I'm

356
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 1: a US citizen or somebody who already won asylum, or

357
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 1: somebody who actually is a dissident from Venezuela and was

358
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 1: you know, trying to get this Maduro out of power

359
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 1: and actually use theirs TV and YouTube clips of them

360
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 1: doing it, et cetera. So for those kind of people,

361
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 1: you need to do process. And the only way to

362
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 1: figure out which kind of person you're talking about is

363
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 1: to allow each person to make their claim.

364
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 2: So I mean, there are fast trials, and couldn't they

365
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 2: do each of these and you know a few.

366
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 1: Hours, Well you can, and they are done. I mean,

367
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: no asylum claim other than maybe a couple of cases

368
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: I've been involved with, But that's because I wonder why, yes, yes, yes,

369
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: I mean I've been in once take two three days,

370
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 1: and that's considered like a record amount of time to

371
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,400
Speaker 1: have an asylum case. But most of them take four hours,

372
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 1: six hours. But here's the problem. I mean, even if

373
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: you had a thousand immigration court judges, and those thousand

374
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: immigration court judges worked three hundred and sixty five days,

375
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 1: which they do not. But let's say they work three

376
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five days, we would still be talking

377
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: about at the end of the day, you know, three

378
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five thousand cases or something. And so

379
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 1: if you're trying to deport what they claim is ten

380
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 1: million people, you're not going to make a vent there.

381
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 1: And so that's the problem that they're coming across here.

382
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 2: I've been talking immigration law expert Leon Fresco of Honden

383
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 2: Night Stephen Miller. Over the weekend, the White House Chief

384
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 2: of Staff said that they're thinking about trying to suspend

385
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 2: Habeas corpus, which has been done I think four times

386
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 2: in the nation's.

387
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 1: History, right, and so the Habeas corpus clause says that

388
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 1: it can be suspended during times of rebellion and invasion.

389
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 1: And so the question is is this considered a type

390
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: of invasion that they were talking about, especially when Congress

391
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: hasn't declared war. We've already seen that the courts at

392
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 1: the moment are not very excited about this invasion language

393
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 1: because they're not allowing it to be used in the

394
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,719
Speaker 1: alien Enemies at context. So far, there's not a judge

395
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,959
Speaker 1: who's reviewed any of these alien Enemies at case as

396
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: yet who has said yes, by the way, we are

397
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,479
Speaker 1: under an invasion, and so the Trump administration is correct

398
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 1: to allow folks to be detained and deported without due

399
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: process because we're under an invasion. They haven't been successful

400
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: with that argument yet, and so if they're not successful

401
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: there in that context, it's going to be hard to say, well,

402
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: how can you suspend habeas corpus, which is a much

403
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: much larger list in the courts. I mean, that's a

404
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: monumental thing to do because it's literally the founding of

405
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: the republic is about these rights as you have for

406
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 1: habeas corpus, and so to suspend it, if they're not

407
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: going to say there's an invasion for the purposes of

408
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: the Alien Enemies Act, it's going to be difficult. But

409
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 1: what they're trying to do is they're trying to avoid

410
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: literally what we've just talked about with regard to the

411
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: foreign students. Those foreign students are in court filing habeas petitions,

412
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: and the people under the Alien Enemies Act are in

413
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: federal court filing habeas petition. That's their only jurisdiction that

414
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: they have to get into court. So if you suspend

415
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: abeas corpus, then they can't file those petitions. And so

416
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: the idea is you can keep them detained, give them

417
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: their removal process, and then maybe at the end they'll

418
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: be able to file something. But at least maybe a

419
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: lot more people will be discouraged because they won't be

420
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: able to see a quick way to get relief, which

421
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: is what Habeas does, and so they'll just try to

422
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: self support or give up or never come into country

423
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: the first place, etc. Et cetera. And so we'll see

424
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: if they end up doing it. But I think the

425
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: reason that even you see some hesitation from Stephen Miller

426
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: is because at the end of the day, if they

427
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: don't win any of these cases on the alien Enemies odds,

428
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: then whether we are under an invasion for the purposes

429
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: of that, it will be very hard to say why

430
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: we are under an invasion for the purposes of suspending

431
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 1: Habeas corpus.

432
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: And speaking of Habeas corpus petitions Kilmar Abrigo Garcia, which

433
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 2: I don't know where that case is now. But Christy Nome,

434
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 2: the DHS secretary, said in Congress last week he's not

435
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: coming back.

436
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: He's not coming back restrained. I have no doubt about it.

437
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: Why the plaints that are still holding off on doing

438
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: anything here when they hear the Secretary of Homeland Security

439
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: thing they're not going to bring him back, but perhaps

440
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: there's some other arrangement that's interesting to both sides. I

441
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: don't know what it is. I do think the plaintiffs

442
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: definitely wanted him back. That was why they had filed

443
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: the litigation. And so if they hadn't pushed the tieline

444
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: and they're sort of still on this Flower timeline and

445
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: you have the second Tary of Land Security say he's

446
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: not going to come back, something is going to have

447
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: to give soon. And so either you're going to see

448
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: the announcement of some settlement that works for both sides,

449
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: or you're going to see the litigation come back again.

450
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: And I don't know where this is going now. Having

451
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: said that, there was a case that just got decided

452
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: on Friday with regards to the Biden administration's asylum ban,

453
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: not the Trump administration's asylum ban, but the Biden administration

454
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: asylum ban. The Biden administration banned asylum by saying you

455
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: had to use the CBP one app if you tried

456
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: to come in the country illegally, you wouldn't be able

457
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: to get asylum. And the court held that that violates

458
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: the statutes. You can't do that or Interestingly, the plaintiffs

459
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: in that case said that there had been some wrongly

460
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: deported people under the Biden Asylum band and they asked

461
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: the judge to force the administration to bring them back,

462
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: and the judge there, who's known as quite a progressive judge,

463
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: that absolutely not. I can't bring them back. There's nothing

464
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: I can do about this. All I can do is

465
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: take away their deportation order. And they want to come

466
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: back and try again to apply for asylum, that's certainly

467
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: something they can do. But I can't order anybody to

468
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: bring anybody back. And so perhaps there's some belief system

469
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: here that's starting to take place that really the courts

470
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: can't do this and they and they can't order anybody

471
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: to be brought back. So that's what's going to be

472
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: very interesting to see.

473
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Leon. That's Leon Fresco of Honda Night,

474
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 2: and that's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Show.

475
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: Remember you can always get the latest legal news on

476
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: our Bloomberg Glaw podcasts. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

477
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: and at www dot Bloomberg dot com. Slash podcast slash Law,

478
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 2: and remember to tune into the Bloomberg Law Show every

479
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: weeknight at ten pm Wall Street Time. I'm June Grosso

480
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: and you're listening to Bloomberg