WEBVTT - Part Three: Christopher Columbus: Bringer of the Apocalypse 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:11.160 Oh, Michael Swam Robert Evans behind the bastards sweaty gay 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:13.880 dance parties, Which is what I said right before the 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.319 recording started, because Michael and I were talking about the 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:23.200 movie To Tan. That's most of the pertinent information that is, like, yeah, 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.759 watch to Tan. It's it's a fun movie about some 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.760 guys who like to dance and nothing else. There's certainly 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:34.760 nothing off putting in it. Automobile aficionados, let's say, do 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.200 you like cars, really like cars? Check out to Tan. 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.320 To Tan might be for you. Michael, how are you 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:45.159 doing as we as we sail like the Santa Maria 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.760 into part three of our episode of Columbus. I'm great, Robert, 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.200 happy to be back and super excited for the third act, 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.760 where which we all know as the Redemption Act. This 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.160 is where this is it out right, He'll just finally 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:06.040 get on an even keel about joke. Uh, stop being 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.399 such a prick. Learned to walk a mile on another's pantolons. Yeah, 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.760 this is where he becomes the hero that we all know, 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.440 Christopher Columbus grows up. I'm waiting. I'm waiting for this 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:22.960 to morph into Friends with the Pilgrims for Thanksgiving. This exactly, 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.119 exactly this, This is the episode we're going to open 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.120 in media rez as he is managing a cinnabon in 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:35.279 the Midwest, and then we'll go back to explain. Um now, um, Although, man, 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:38.440 you could make a pretty good Columbus movie with Bob 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:42.679 oden Kirk playing Christopher Columbus. I'd watch it. I'm just 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.000 gonna say it right now. I would watch it. Um. 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:50.120 Michael On February three, Michael Small means Network. By the way, 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.040 probably we should lead up front with the plugs. Yeah, 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:55.760 we always time for that. Okay, but we do it. 0:01:55.800 --> 0:02:01.040 We do it both, we do it both. Robert Evans here, 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.160 I wanted to make a quick correction. You know, when 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.160 I was talking about the Tano, the other air walk 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.480 people's the Caribs, Um, I I used terms like genocide, 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.440 which is absolutely accurate. But I also used terms phrases 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.760 like wiped out or extinct. This is not entirely accurate. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.160 I wanted to emphasize the level of destruction because it's 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.519 so much an excess of what we see even when 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.800 normally talking about genocides. Sixteen years on most of these islands, 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.440 you're lucky if ten percent of the original population is 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.840 around UM and it's true that if you look up 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.120 the Tano you will find a lot of references to 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.520 them being wiped at. Wikipedia says they were historic indigenous 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.320 people of the Caribbean UM, but of course they had descendants. 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.560 There are people who did survive, notably on what is 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.280 now Haiti. A lot of folks escaped into the mountains 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.919 UM and later met up with escaped slaves and were 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.120 part of resistance UM and exist to this day in 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:55.720 that area. UM. Some forty three thousand of the I 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.720 think two points seven million people UM in Puerto Rico 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.600 have some degree of Taino ancestry. Three point seven million people, 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.320 so forty three point seven million people in Puerto Rico 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:10.480 have some Taino ancestry. Obviously, the level of destruction was intense, 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.600 which is why I felt like emphasizing it. But it's 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.800 been pointed out to me that this is also a 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.760 tactic that's used to kind of act as if these 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.359 people's are completely gone, as sort of a well, there's 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.040 nothing we can do, right, there's no way to make 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.000 amends to them because Columbus wiped them out. UM. There's 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.360 a lot that's problematic with this I'm not having the 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.000 time to get into it properly, and this is not 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.120 that show. But I wanted to number one, kind of 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.240 acknowledge that I should not have said things the way 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:35.720 I did. We tried to cut some of that out 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.680 of the episodes once I became aware of it. UM. 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.120 But I also wanted to recommend a couple of different 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.120 resources that people do want to read more about this, 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.560 because in addition to the fact there there are a 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:50.040 number of Tano communities that have continued to exist since 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.440 first contact, there are also Taino descended people who are 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.520 attempting to revive some of the traditions and culture UM 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.840 and reclaim that for themselves. So if you want to 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.880 look at SMITHSNY magazine has an article called What Became 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.080 of the Tano by Robert Poole that was published in 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.880 two thousand eleven. UM. In Puerto Rico, U there are 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:13.720 attempts ongoing UM to add Taino studies to classrooms and 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.160 to schools and stuff in the area, UM and elsewhere 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.400 in the United States. There's a good NBC News article 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.880 on that called Puerto Rico seeks to preserve Tino history, 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.640 revived culture, and then probably the resource that is most 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.440 worth reading is an article in American Indian Magazine titled 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.520 Abuela's Ancestors and a tabby the Spirit of Tano Resurgence. 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.240 It's by Christina Gonzalez and it was published in the 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.119 fall of two thousand eighteen. UM, so I would really 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:42.919 recommend checking out that article, um for American Indian Magazine. 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.720 UM yeah, sorry for the error, and please keep doing 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:55.200 good stuff. Oh great dogs, yah yeah, lovely. Well. Hey, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.880 I'll you focus people well for a split second. While 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.760 I have that focus, please devote yours engine to the 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:05.039 Small Beans podcasting network, which you can find more out 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.800 about simply by googling that phrase, or you could head 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:10.800 over to patreon dot com slash small Beans if you 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.760 really want to get your handle around everything we do. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.240 And or completely unrelatedly, if you're a fan of podcasts 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:19.960 on the I Heart network, and I know you are 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.440 because you're listening to this and you like video games, 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.599 check out another podcast I run with my co host 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:30.720 Adam Ganzer. That's called One Upsmanship One ups man Ship. Wow. 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.239 That's also the title of my podcast, which is about 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:38.919 how ups transports products and services around the world. Is 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:43.040 it break time? It's just it's just pronounced one upsmanship um, 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.440 which is about there anyway. Whatever, the people who are 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.880 right are super into the relationship between the package deliver 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:52.800 and the package. That's that's what really draws me in 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:58.960 about global capitalism. So on February, Columbus sailed into the 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.240 Azors off of the coast of Africa with several dozen 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.800 crewmen on the Pinta, the only remaining ship of his 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.520 fleet that was still under his direct control, which most 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.159 people don't know. He loses control. He either sinks or 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.400 loses control of two thirds of the fleet that he 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:15.320 brings with him. And if I recall, he took this 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.039 as a sign from God that things were going really well. 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.240 The things are going great. Yes, despite the fact that yeah, 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.279 he's he's lost most of his fleet. The voyage was, 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.599 one has to say, a stunning success by most reasonable standards, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.440 because they are going out into the complete unknown for 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:36.160 them via an untried route that people had not attempted 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:38.800 previously in boats like this, who people who were members 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:42.560 of his civilization had not attempted previously. They had established 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.279 a settlement there and then they had returned crew and home, 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.280 and most of his crew didn't die so far a 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.679 lot of them actually did die not at this point. Um. 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.600 Upon landing in the Azars and disembarking about half of 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.360 his crew, they were immediately arrested by the Portuguese over 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.080 a misunderstanding. This was dealt with, though, and they were 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.720 soon off reprovisioned for the Spanish coast, and early March, 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.080 a horrible storm hit the sea, and Columbus was worried 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.280 enough about sinking that he attached a letter to the 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:11.320 King and Queen to the front mast of his ship 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:13.360 so that it would have a better chance of like 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.160 getting washed to shore if the boat got sunk. Um. 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.280 So the letters contained like a guide to how to 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.560 get to you know, where he'd sailed to and left 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:25.480 a colony, and also a grand promise quote within seven years, 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:27.760 I shall give your highnesses enough money to pay for 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.800 five thousand nights and fifty thou foot soldiers for the 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.080 conquest of Jerusalem, the ultimate goal behind your decision to 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:39.000 undertake the enterprise. Um. So that's good. I want to 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.680 know what misunderstanding Columbus was arrested for. Oh, it was 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.280 just because, like you know, Spain and Portugal are both 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.680 the big Catholic countries. So they're supposed to be friends, 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.440 but they actually are constantly in conflict, and so it 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.840 was like it was that sort of thing. So Columbus 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.520 does make it back to Spain alive. The indigenous people 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.680 he had captured and the objects that he had brought 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.240 back from the Caribbean with him were deeply impressive to 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.360 his sovereigns, as were his lurid descriptions of the so 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.600 called indies. But Columbus had not yet found what he 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.600 had promised them, which is a reliable source of gold. 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.640 As a result, he quickly found himself embellishing and outright 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.480 fibbing to make his achievements sound more impressive in the 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.840 terms that his sovereign's valued. Lawrence bear Green writes, quote, 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.880 he offered his journal as evidence, bolstered by the testimony 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:24.720 of the others who had accompanied him, in the hope 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.000 of claiming the riches and titles and glory to which 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.040 he believed he was entitled, even divinely ordained to have 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.239 carefully embellished and edited to meet Ferdinand and Isabella's expectations 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.400 and his contractual obligations to them. The journal purported to 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.360 demonstrate that he had accomplished and even exceeded his mission 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.040 to the point of establishing a Spanish outpost and the 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.320 islands he had discovered on his way to India. Now, 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.360 inside of this diary, this diary that he is very 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.240 carefully this is not an objective document. This is not 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.120 actually meant to be an accurate document. This is a 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.880 piece of propaganda he has crafted in order to guy 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.360 his sovereigns to a specific set of actions. Um And 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.440 the whole goal of this was to convince them that 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.360 if they were to give him a much larger fleet 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.160 and let him return with it, he would expand the 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.000 settlement he had left behind and establish a network of 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.880 three or four towns united by a series of churches, 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:21.200 abbeys and fortresses which would act as collection points for gold. Right, 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.040 So you set up these different sort of points of 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.880 what they would call civilization around the Caribbean, which the natives, 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.080 who are now all servants of the crown, will have 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.240 to bring gold to as a form of taxation. And 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:34.960 that's how you're going to make all this money that 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.959 you need to conquer Jerusalem. Now, Columbus, who was ever 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.040 the self promoter, didn't just write this thing out and 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.760 hand it to his sovereigns. He also published a letter 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.800 that was quickly translated into like five or six different 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.800 European languages, which basically announced to europe that, a, you know, 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.079 the new world has been found. Right, that's the way 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.280 in which this is interpret Incredible how much this parallels 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.680 a text startup, Like if you're familiar with Silicon Valley lingo. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.280 He just dropped his white paper and did a bunch 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.920 of social media posts like promoting the event. That's what 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.559 his diary is. And it's wild to me that even 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.480 in the very beginnings of the concept of America is 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:15.600 woven the idea of like Columbus asserting it's the greatest 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.200 country on Earth, your majesty. Yeah, why, well, because it 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:22.240 benefits me to believe that it is. Yeah, because I 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.920 have I have the right to a certain amount of 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.240 all of the trade that comes through this area. Exactly 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.680 convince you to like, here, it's going to work out. 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:36.440 Um yeah, so um. One of the things he brags 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.480 about here um obviously he talks about the potential for 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:41.240 gold and that he's found evidence of it, but he 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.079 hadn't actually found any minds, so he has to really 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.320 hype up the other major resource that he did find 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.120 in the islands, which is the human beings who lived there. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.559 So number one, he talks a lot about how he 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.560 uses the word comely a lot, or like the equivalent 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.079 of that. It's talking about how pretty they are, right, Um, 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.400 by the way, people are pretty much Europeans are pretty 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.440 much immediately taking young women as sex slaves. That happens 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:10.160 from the jump here. Um, yes, uh. And there's a 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.640 lot of writing Columbus does about like finding himself in 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.080 the presence of these women and like how attractive they 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:19.080 are and how valuable they are as slaves for that reason. Um. Now. 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.600 He also interesting that in all the fivving he did 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:26.280 not like Gaussian blur over that bit. That's actually an asset. 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.440 It just does goes to show how much cultural maries 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.520 change over time. That's wild. Yeah, I didn't find gold, 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.040 but I found hot people and weaken in them. And 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.600 that's good. And we all agree, we're all the head 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.200 of government is fine, this is fine. Yeah. Um, well, 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.480 actually the head of government is not super okay with it. 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:45.760 Although I think we will discuss a little later how 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.840 much of that was also a kind of propaganda. But um. 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.600 He notes that the indigenous people have no real religion 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.800 and would be easy converts to Christianity. Uh. He talked 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:57.680 a lot about how friendly they were, saying that the 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.560 men he had left behind on Navidad were quote without 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:04.280 danger for their persons if they know how to behave themselves. Now, Michael, 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:06.440 keep that line in mind, because that's going to be 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.240 pretty funny in a very short while. Yeah. I'm almost 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.920 never in danger as long as I never miss step 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:18.480 and do everything correctly. I mean that I skate through easily. Yeah. So, 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.240 once Columbus is back and he's doing his big victory tour, 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.120 word spreads quickly that he has discovered a new route 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.840 to the islands off the coast of the Great CON's domain. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.760 These unspoiled territories were not Christian, which, in the eyes 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:32.880 of the Pope and all of the Catholics, means that 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.360 the most important order of business is to split them 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.200 up among Christian powers. Right, because they are not Christian 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.440 yet or one of the religions that we know as 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.199 our enemy, it just means they're automatically ours. Right. Pope 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:48.280 Alexander the sixth issued a series of papal bulls ruling 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.840 on how to split the control between Spain and Portugal, 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.800 which are because they're the Catholic nations that are actually 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.240 powerful in this period, they're the only countries that actually matter. Right, 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.360 Italy gets like on that list, but not really Um 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:01.960 because it's not a country, right, like some of the 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.720 city states are powerful. Is this still the era when 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:07.760 the pope is like Tony Soprano, like more of a 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.960 business interests than anything else. And that is what the 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.800 pope is doing, is he is demarcating basically like between 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.880 these two Spain and Portugal, and his eyes are kind 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.200 of like franchises of the Catholic Church, and he's he's 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.760 demarcating between them what chunks of this new discovered land 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.800 mass they're going to get to to take control over 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.960 Um because there's this big right because the Portuguese have 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.120 the rights to the coast of Africa, you know, which 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.200 was pretty new to them when they figured out how 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.440 to sale to it. So the end result of this, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:40.800 he sets up this line of demarcation that extends from 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.240 the north to the south pole one hundred leagues towards 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.880 the west and south of the islands and the Azors. 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.439 Everything west of that line belongs to Spain, Um and 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.960 given the terms that Clubus had set up with his sovereigns. 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:57.679 This is all partially Christopher Columbus's property to write. So technically, 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.839 based on the agreement he's signed with the King and Queen, 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.600 what the Pope is ruled, he gets he's like entitled 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.839 like a quarter of all of the traffic that comes 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:12.319 from Spanish settlement in Latin America. Wow, that's a lot, right, potentially, 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.439 that's worth quite a bit of money. He has a 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.959 startup turned into PayPal just now. Yes, he gets the 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.720 percentage of every single transaction exactly. He's tealing hard. So 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:28.640 on May, Ferdinand and Isabella appointed Columbus the Captain general 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.920 for a second, much larger voyage of Discovery and conquest. 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.240 They issued a document conferring rights and privileges on him 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.920 and officially awarded him the title Viceroy and Admiral of 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.560 the Ocean, Sea and the Indies. He was ordered to 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.240 very rapidly put together this new voyage and get it 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:49.080 out to see. Chris was now Dawn. Christopher Columbus Dawn 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.680 is a noble title, right like that? That means it's 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:53.960 kind of like having Vaughan in your name in Germany. 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.240 Rights that you're a member of the nobility, and his 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.720 children are now also, He's now permanently in the nobility. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.080 And not only does he have these rights, his children 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.760 inherit them from him. So his all of his progeny 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.920 are set to it have part ownership in all new 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.680 lands he might quote discover and acquire um. The King 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.040 and Queen also give him the authority to punish and 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.520 chastise delinquents and levy fees or taxes on the natives 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.920 of this Newfoundland. I wonder when that thread finally ran 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.520 out legally speaking, you know, like, how long did it 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:33.080 persist that they cut They cut while he's alive. They're 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:37.120 cutting back, They're cutting his kids out in parts. I mean, 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.000 his kids do all right, don't worry. Don't worry about 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.520 the Columbus kids. Not that you would, because they do. 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.640 The King and Queen did place one set of limitations 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.160 on him. I'm gonna quote from a write up in 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.400 American Heritage here and written instructions to Columbus issued from 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:56.000 Barcelona on May. The King and Queen were explicit in 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.520 their mandate respecting treatment of the Indians. Now, not only 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.040 was us to make their conversion to the Christian faith 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.960 is first order of business. But the monarchs also firmly 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.400 decreed that they were not to be molested or coerced 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.360 in any way. They instructed Columbus as he prepared for 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.000 his second voyage. And because this can best be done 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.320 after the arrival of the meet in good time, the 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.080 said Admiral shall take measures that those who go therein 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.320 and those who have gone before here, shall treat the 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:24.080 Indians very well and affectionately, without causing them any annoyance whatever. 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.400 And at the same time, the Admiral shall make some 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:28.840 gifts to them in a gracious manner, and hold them 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.000 in great honor. And if it happens that some persons 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.920 to treat the Indians badly in any way whatsoever, the 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.840 said Admiral, as Viceroy and governor for their highnesses, shall 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.880 meet out severe punishment. So on paper, the King and 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.080 Queen are like, hey, you have to respect these people. 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.320 They're so now they're saying you have to respect them 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.680 because there are there there are servants of our crown 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.640 now right because they're their property. But they are saying 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.880 you have to respect them, you have to treat them well, 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.200 which would seem to say I don't know about you, Michael. 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.520 When I think about what qualifies as treating someone well, 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.240 I think not enslaving them is high up on the list. 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.160 Part of freedom, that's right on the top. I don't 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:09.440 but America. Freedom has never been a vaunted trope in America. 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.399 I just don't think it's you know, doesn't have that 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.240 ring to it. Uh, it's just it's the second part 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.879 of the rhyme. Like we all know the forty two 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:26.640 Columbus three, the court defined atrocity. Michael, how long how 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.520 long were you waiting to drop that line? I barely 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:34.520 gathered most of what you just said about what's his name? Colombo? Yes, yes, yes, 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.560 this is this is about Colombo thing the primary hero 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:43.200 of Yugoslavian anyway. That's that Actually is a fun story. Um. 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.280 So this is an area in which Carol Delaney's account 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:50.760 of Columbus's motivations diverges significantly from more mainstream interpretations of 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.160 the historical act. Yes, some might say accurate delay interpretations 0:17:55.840 --> 0:18:00.800 delay me mark right? Anyway? Um, the whitewashing a genocide, 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.320 guy E, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, there you go. 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.479 In her account of events, Columbus remains the feverishly devoted 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.600 zealot Leezer focused on finding the Great Con and bringing 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.600 back wealth for Jerusalem. But bear Grin makes the case 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:19.000 that this doesn't really line up with history. Quote, a 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.120 new realism informed these instructions. There was no more talk 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.480 of trading with the Great Con, although the possibility that 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.760 he existed hovered over the voyage. In other words, while 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.239 he's like still writing about Jerusalem right up to this 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.840 point when they lay out shipped for their next voyage, 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.080 they're not talking about that so much anymore. This is 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.560 all talked about as a business enterprise. They were talking 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.280 about how to get in there and start making some 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.600 fucking cash. It's all the same reasons you ever make 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.560 a sequel to a franchise. It's fascinating that it works 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.040 in terms of film or any unit of entertainment, but 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:56.240 also like, oh, this exploitation went well, Let's do exploitation 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.600 to exploit harder. All of these contracts, all of the 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.560 legiti stickle planning is focused on establishing storehouses and deposed 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.960 to enable trade. And it was all based on the 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.880 example of the Portuguese in Africa, right, which you might 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.520 notice had not retaken the Holy Land. They just made 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.120 a bunch of money, like that was the goal at 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.840 this point whatever. And I do think one of the 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.600 reasons I do use Delaney, I think she's right in 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.480 that it is an undertold aspect of his story that 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:24.680 he was a religious fanatic who wanted to bring about 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.560 the apocalypse. Right. I do think that is a worthwhile 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.639 part of the man's journey. But aren't so many of 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.520 them like you can You can think about it, like 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.760 You've got all these guys, these like Christian mega preachers 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:40.240 and stuff who become multimillionaires who preach about the apocalypse 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:42.679 and the rapture and stuff. And I think some some 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:44.879 of them clearly are just grifters, but I think a 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.240 lot of them believe aspects of it. It's just really 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:51.480 easy to temper your belief once you get super fucking rich, right. 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.320 I think it's also such unique experience that it's almost 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.639 impossible to project yourself truly into the mindset of someone 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.399 who in their life knew that they were his of 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:06.280 historical import like good for good or bad. Like I 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:08.880 can't imagine what it's like to be Hitler or FDR, 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:11.600 And I don't think I truly ever will because you'll 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.520 think about what would I have done during this crisis, 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.680 and you're like, well, you have to remember that you're 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:23.040 a completely different dude who is wildly inaccessible to you. 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.959 Like they think in a different way. This guy believes 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.240 the world's gonna end any second. Now, that's got to 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.320 affect your behaviors. Yes, I mean there's yeah, there's a 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:34.800 lot to say about that. Um So the King and 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.159 quin I do think one of the interesting historical questions 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.439 here there's a version, a theoretical version in history of 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.919 a guy who does this and isn't a monster, just 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.560 like once to figures there's land to the west and 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.440 wants to sail to it. Um. It is a shame 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.360 that that guy wound up being such a piece of ship, 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.159 and also all of the people he brought with him 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.160 were pieces of ship and it ended in genocide. Um 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.560 but yeah, there there's there's a I don't know sad 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:02.360 uh So the King and Queen, the wealthy nobles who 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.240 backed them certainly seem to have seen this second venture 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.920 is worthy of intense investment. The equivalent of many millions 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.240 of modern dollars were poured into equipping a vast fleet. 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.399 Right he goes there with like a couple hundred people, 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:17.199 Like I think it's just like a hundred people on 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.800 three boats. It's a very The first journey over is 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:23.560 quite small. This new journey will be seventeen ships and 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.880 something like twelve hundred people. Like this is a so 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.359 they are you know, they've done the this is the 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.600