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Speaker 1: Oh, Michael Swam Robert Evans behind the bastards sweaty gay

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Speaker 1: dance parties, Which is what I said right before the

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Speaker 1: recording started, because Michael and I were talking about the

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Speaker 1: movie To Tan. That's most of the pertinent information that is, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: watch to Tan. It's it's a fun movie about some

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Speaker 1: guys who like to dance and nothing else. There's certainly

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Speaker 1: nothing off putting in it. Automobile aficionados, let's say, do

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Speaker 1: you like cars, really like cars? Check out to Tan.

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Speaker 1: To Tan might be for you. Michael, how are you

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Speaker 1: doing as we as we sail like the Santa Maria

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Speaker 1: into part three of our episode of Columbus. I'm great, Robert,

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Speaker 1: happy to be back and super excited for the third act,

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Speaker 1: where which we all know as the Redemption Act. This

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Speaker 1: is where this is it out right, He'll just finally

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Speaker 1: get on an even keel about joke. Uh, stop being

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Speaker 1: such a prick. Learned to walk a mile on another's pantolons. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is where he becomes the hero that we all know,

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Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus grows up. I'm waiting. I'm waiting for this

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Speaker 1: to morph into Friends with the Pilgrims for Thanksgiving. This exactly,

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Speaker 1: exactly this, This is the episode we're going to open

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Speaker 1: in media rez as he is managing a cinnabon in

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Speaker 1: the Midwest, and then we'll go back to explain. Um now, um, Although, man,

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Speaker 1: you could make a pretty good Columbus movie with Bob

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Speaker 1: oden Kirk playing Christopher Columbus. I'd watch it. I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna say it right now. I would watch it. Um.

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Speaker 1: Michael On February three, Michael Small means Network. By the way,

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Speaker 1: probably we should lead up front with the plugs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we always time for that. Okay, but we do it.

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Speaker 1: We do it both, we do it both. Robert Evans here,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to make a quick correction. You know, when

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Speaker 1: I was talking about the Tano, the other air walk

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Speaker 1: people's the Caribs, Um, I I used terms like genocide,

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Speaker 1: which is absolutely accurate. But I also used terms phrases

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Speaker 1: like wiped out or extinct. This is not entirely accurate.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to emphasize the level of destruction because it's

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Speaker 1: so much an excess of what we see even when

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Speaker 1: normally talking about genocides. Sixteen years on most of these islands,

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Speaker 1: you're lucky if ten percent of the original population is

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Speaker 1: around UM and it's true that if you look up

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Speaker 1: the Tano you will find a lot of references to

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Speaker 1: them being wiped at. Wikipedia says they were historic indigenous

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Speaker 1: people of the Caribbean UM, but of course they had descendants.

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Speaker 1: There are people who did survive, notably on what is

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Speaker 1: now Haiti. A lot of folks escaped into the mountains

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Speaker 1: UM and later met up with escaped slaves and were

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Speaker 1: part of resistance UM and exist to this day in

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Speaker 1: that area. UM. Some forty three thousand of the I

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Speaker 1: think two points seven million people UM in Puerto Rico

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Speaker 1: have some degree of Taino ancestry. Three point seven million people,

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Speaker 1: so forty three point seven million people in Puerto Rico

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Speaker 1: have some Taino ancestry. Obviously, the level of destruction was intense,

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Speaker 1: which is why I felt like emphasizing it. But it's

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Speaker 1: been pointed out to me that this is also a

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Speaker 1: tactic that's used to kind of act as if these

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Speaker 1: people's are completely gone, as sort of a well, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing we can do, right, there's no way to make

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Speaker 1: amends to them because Columbus wiped them out. UM. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot that's problematic with this I'm not having the

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Speaker 1: time to get into it properly, and this is not

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Speaker 1: that show. But I wanted to number one, kind of

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that I should not have said things the way

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Speaker 1: I did. We tried to cut some of that out

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Speaker 1: of the episodes once I became aware of it. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I also wanted to recommend a couple of different

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Speaker 1: resources that people do want to read more about this,

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Speaker 1: because in addition to the fact there there are a

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Speaker 1: number of Tano communities that have continued to exist since

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Speaker 1: first contact, there are also Taino descended people who are

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Speaker 1: attempting to revive some of the traditions and culture UM

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Speaker 1: and reclaim that for themselves. So if you want to

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Speaker 1: look at SMITHSNY magazine has an article called What Became

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Speaker 1: of the Tano by Robert Poole that was published in

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Speaker 1: two thousand eleven. UM. In Puerto Rico, U there are

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Speaker 1: attempts ongoing UM to add Taino studies to classrooms and

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Speaker 1: to schools and stuff in the area, UM and elsewhere

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Speaker 1: in the United States. There's a good NBC News article

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Speaker 1: on that called Puerto Rico seeks to preserve Tino history,

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Speaker 1: revived culture, and then probably the resource that is most

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Speaker 1: worth reading is an article in American Indian Magazine titled

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Speaker 1: Abuela's Ancestors and a tabby the Spirit of Tano Resurgence.

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Speaker 1: It's by Christina Gonzalez and it was published in the

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Speaker 1: fall of two thousand eighteen. UM, so I would really

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Speaker 1: recommend checking out that article, um for American Indian Magazine.

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Speaker 1: UM yeah, sorry for the error, and please keep doing

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Speaker 1: good stuff. Oh great dogs, yah yeah, lovely. Well. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'll you focus people well for a split second. While

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Speaker 1: I have that focus, please devote yours engine to the

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Speaker 1: Small Beans podcasting network, which you can find more out

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Speaker 1: about simply by googling that phrase, or you could head

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Speaker 1: over to patreon dot com slash small Beans if you

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Speaker 1: really want to get your handle around everything we do.

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Speaker 1: And or completely unrelatedly, if you're a fan of podcasts

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Speaker 1: on the I Heart network, and I know you are

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Speaker 1: because you're listening to this and you like video games,

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Speaker 1: check out another podcast I run with my co host

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Speaker 1: Adam Ganzer. That's called One Upsmanship One ups man Ship. Wow.

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Speaker 1: That's also the title of my podcast, which is about

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Speaker 1: how ups transports products and services around the world. Is

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Speaker 1: it break time? It's just it's just pronounced one upsmanship um,

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Speaker 1: which is about there anyway. Whatever, the people who are

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Speaker 1: right are super into the relationship between the package deliver

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Speaker 1: and the package. That's that's what really draws me in

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Speaker 1: about global capitalism. So on February, Columbus sailed into the

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Speaker 1: Azors off of the coast of Africa with several dozen

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Speaker 1: crewmen on the Pinta, the only remaining ship of his

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Speaker 1: fleet that was still under his direct control, which most

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Speaker 1: people don't know. He loses control. He either sinks or

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Speaker 1: loses control of two thirds of the fleet that he

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Speaker 1: brings with him. And if I recall, he took this

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Speaker 1: as a sign from God that things were going really well.

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Speaker 1: The things are going great. Yes, despite the fact that yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's he's lost most of his fleet. The voyage was,

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Speaker 1: one has to say, a stunning success by most reasonable standards,

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Speaker 1: because they are going out into the complete unknown for

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Speaker 1: them via an untried route that people had not attempted

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Speaker 1: previously in boats like this, who people who were members

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Speaker 1: of his civilization had not attempted previously. They had established

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Speaker 1: a settlement there and then they had returned crew and home,

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Speaker 1: and most of his crew didn't die so far a

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Speaker 1: lot of them actually did die not at this point. Um.

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Speaker 1: Upon landing in the Azars and disembarking about half of

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Speaker 1: his crew, they were immediately arrested by the Portuguese over

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Speaker 1: a misunderstanding. This was dealt with, though, and they were

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Speaker 1: soon off reprovisioned for the Spanish coast, and early March,

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Speaker 1: a horrible storm hit the sea, and Columbus was worried

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Speaker 1: enough about sinking that he attached a letter to the

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Speaker 1: King and Queen to the front mast of his ship

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Speaker 1: so that it would have a better chance of like

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Speaker 1: getting washed to shore if the boat got sunk. Um.

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Speaker 1: So the letters contained like a guide to how to

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Speaker 1: get to you know, where he'd sailed to and left

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Speaker 1: a colony, and also a grand promise quote within seven years,

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Speaker 1: I shall give your highnesses enough money to pay for

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Speaker 1: five thousand nights and fifty thou foot soldiers for the

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Speaker 1: conquest of Jerusalem, the ultimate goal behind your decision to

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Speaker 1: undertake the enterprise. Um. So that's good. I want to

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Speaker 1: know what misunderstanding Columbus was arrested for. Oh, it was

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Speaker 1: just because, like you know, Spain and Portugal are both

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Speaker 1: the big Catholic countries. So they're supposed to be friends,

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Speaker 1: but they actually are constantly in conflict, and so it

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Speaker 1: was like it was that sort of thing. So Columbus

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Speaker 1: does make it back to Spain alive. The indigenous people

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Speaker 1: he had captured and the objects that he had brought

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Speaker 1: back from the Caribbean with him were deeply impressive to

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Speaker 1: his sovereigns, as were his lurid descriptions of the so

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Speaker 1: called indies. But Columbus had not yet found what he

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Speaker 1: had promised them, which is a reliable source of gold.

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Speaker 1: As a result, he quickly found himself embellishing and outright

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Speaker 1: fibbing to make his achievements sound more impressive in the

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Speaker 1: terms that his sovereign's valued. Lawrence bear Green writes, quote,

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Speaker 1: he offered his journal as evidence, bolstered by the testimony

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Speaker 1: of the others who had accompanied him, in the hope

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Speaker 1: of claiming the riches and titles and glory to which

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Speaker 1: he believed he was entitled, even divinely ordained to have

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Speaker 1: carefully embellished and edited to meet Ferdinand and Isabella's expectations

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Speaker 1: and his contractual obligations to them. The journal purported to

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Speaker 1: demonstrate that he had accomplished and even exceeded his mission

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Speaker 1: to the point of establishing a Spanish outpost and the

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Speaker 1: islands he had discovered on his way to India. Now,

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Speaker 1: inside of this diary, this diary that he is very

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Speaker 1: carefully this is not an objective document. This is not

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Speaker 1: actually meant to be an accurate document. This is a

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Speaker 1: piece of propaganda he has crafted in order to guy

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Speaker 1: his sovereigns to a specific set of actions. Um And

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Speaker 1: the whole goal of this was to convince them that

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Speaker 1: if they were to give him a much larger fleet

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Speaker 1: and let him return with it, he would expand the

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Speaker 1: settlement he had left behind and establish a network of

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Speaker 1: three or four towns united by a series of churches,

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Speaker 1: abbeys and fortresses which would act as collection points for gold. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you set up these different sort of points of

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Speaker 1: what they would call civilization around the Caribbean, which the natives,

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Speaker 1: who are now all servants of the crown, will have

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Speaker 1: to bring gold to as a form of taxation. And

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Speaker 1: that's how you're going to make all this money that

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Speaker 1: you need to conquer Jerusalem. Now, Columbus, who was ever

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Speaker 1: the self promoter, didn't just write this thing out and

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Speaker 1: hand it to his sovereigns. He also published a letter

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Speaker 1: that was quickly translated into like five or six different

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Speaker 1: European languages, which basically announced to europe that, a, you know,

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Speaker 1: the new world has been found. Right, that's the way

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Speaker 1: in which this is interpret Incredible how much this parallels

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Speaker 1: a text startup, Like if you're familiar with Silicon Valley lingo.

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Speaker 1: He just dropped his white paper and did a bunch

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Speaker 1: of social media posts like promoting the event. That's what

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Speaker 1: his diary is. And it's wild to me that even

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Speaker 1: in the very beginnings of the concept of America is

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Speaker 1: woven the idea of like Columbus asserting it's the greatest

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Speaker 1: country on Earth, your majesty. Yeah, why, well, because it

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Speaker 1: benefits me to believe that it is. Yeah, because I

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Speaker 1: have I have the right to a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: all of the trade that comes through this area. Exactly

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Speaker 1: convince you to like, here, it's going to work out.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah, so um. One of the things he brags

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Speaker 1: about here um obviously he talks about the potential for

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Speaker 1: gold and that he's found evidence of it, but he

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Speaker 1: hadn't actually found any minds, so he has to really

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Speaker 1: hype up the other major resource that he did find

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Speaker 1: in the islands, which is the human beings who lived there.

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Speaker 1: So number one, he talks a lot about how he

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Speaker 1: uses the word comely a lot, or like the equivalent

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Speaker 1: of that. It's talking about how pretty they are, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: by the way, people are pretty much Europeans are pretty

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Speaker 1: much immediately taking young women as sex slaves. That happens

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Speaker 1: from the jump here. Um, yes, uh. And there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of writing Columbus does about like finding himself in

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Speaker 1: the presence of these women and like how attractive they

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Speaker 1: are and how valuable they are as slaves for that reason. Um. Now.

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Speaker 1: He also interesting that in all the fivving he did

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Speaker 1: not like Gaussian blur over that bit. That's actually an asset.

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Speaker 1: It just does goes to show how much cultural maries

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Speaker 1: change over time. That's wild. Yeah, I didn't find gold,

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Speaker 1: but I found hot people and weaken in them. And

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Speaker 1: that's good. And we all agree, we're all the head

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Speaker 1: of government is fine, this is fine. Yeah. Um, well,

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Speaker 1: actually the head of government is not super okay with it.

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Speaker 1: Although I think we will discuss a little later how

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Speaker 1: much of that was also a kind of propaganda. But um.

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Speaker 1: He notes that the indigenous people have no real religion

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Speaker 1: and would be easy converts to Christianity. Uh. He talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about how friendly they were, saying that the

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Speaker 1: men he had left behind on Navidad were quote without

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Speaker 1: danger for their persons if they know how to behave themselves. Now, Michael,

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Speaker 1: keep that line in mind, because that's going to be

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Speaker 1: pretty funny in a very short while. Yeah. I'm almost

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Speaker 1: never in danger as long as I never miss step

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Speaker 1: and do everything correctly. I mean that I skate through easily. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: once Columbus is back and he's doing his big victory tour,

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Speaker 1: word spreads quickly that he has discovered a new route

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Speaker 1: to the islands off the coast of the Great CON's domain.

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Speaker 1: These unspoiled territories were not Christian, which, in the eyes

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Speaker 1: of the Pope and all of the Catholics, means that

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Speaker 1: the most important order of business is to split them

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Speaker 1: up among Christian powers. Right, because they are not Christian

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Speaker 1: yet or one of the religions that we know as

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Speaker 1: our enemy, it just means they're automatically ours. Right. Pope

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Speaker 1: Alexander the sixth issued a series of papal bulls ruling

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Speaker 1: on how to split the control between Spain and Portugal,

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Speaker 1: which are because they're the Catholic nations that are actually

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Speaker 1: powerful in this period, they're the only countries that actually matter. Right,

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Speaker 1: Italy gets like on that list, but not really Um

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Speaker 1: because it's not a country, right, like some of the

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Speaker 1: city states are powerful. Is this still the era when

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Speaker 1: the pope is like Tony Soprano, like more of a

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Speaker 1: business interests than anything else. And that is what the

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Speaker 1: pope is doing, is he is demarcating basically like between

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Speaker 1: these two Spain and Portugal, and his eyes are kind

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Speaker 1: of like franchises of the Catholic Church, and he's he's

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Speaker 1: demarcating between them what chunks of this new discovered land

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Speaker 1: mass they're going to get to to take control over

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Speaker 1: Um because there's this big right because the Portuguese have

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Speaker 1: the rights to the coast of Africa, you know, which

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Speaker 1: was pretty new to them when they figured out how

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Speaker 1: to sale to it. So the end result of this,

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Speaker 1: he sets up this line of demarcation that extends from

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Speaker 1: the north to the south pole one hundred leagues towards

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Speaker 1: the west and south of the islands and the Azors.

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Speaker 1: Everything west of that line belongs to Spain, Um and

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Speaker 1: given the terms that Clubus had set up with his sovereigns.

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Speaker 1: This is all partially Christopher Columbus's property to write. So technically,

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Speaker 1: based on the agreement he's signed with the King and Queen,

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Speaker 1: what the Pope is ruled, he gets he's like entitled

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Speaker 1: like a quarter of all of the traffic that comes

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Speaker 1: from Spanish settlement in Latin America. Wow, that's a lot, right, potentially,

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Speaker 1: that's worth quite a bit of money. He has a

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Speaker 1: startup turned into PayPal just now. Yes, he gets the

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Speaker 1: percentage of every single transaction exactly. He's tealing hard. So

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Speaker 1: on May, Ferdinand and Isabella appointed Columbus the Captain general

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Speaker 1: for a second, much larger voyage of Discovery and conquest.

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Speaker 1: They issued a document conferring rights and privileges on him

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Speaker 1: and officially awarded him the title Viceroy and Admiral of

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Speaker 1: the Ocean, Sea and the Indies. He was ordered to

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Speaker 1: very rapidly put together this new voyage and get it

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Speaker 1: out to see. Chris was now Dawn. Christopher Columbus Dawn

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Speaker 1: is a noble title, right like that? That means it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like having Vaughan in your name in Germany.

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Speaker 1: Rights that you're a member of the nobility, and his

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Speaker 1: children are now also, He's now permanently in the nobility.

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Speaker 1: And not only does he have these rights, his children

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Speaker 1: inherit them from him. So his all of his progeny

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Speaker 1: are set to it have part ownership in all new

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Speaker 1: lands he might quote discover and acquire um. The King

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Speaker 1: and Queen also give him the authority to punish and

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Speaker 1: chastise delinquents and levy fees or taxes on the natives

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Speaker 1: of this Newfoundland. I wonder when that thread finally ran

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Speaker 1: out legally speaking, you know, like, how long did it

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Speaker 1: persist that they cut They cut while he's alive. They're

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Speaker 1: cutting back, They're cutting his kids out in parts. I mean,

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Speaker 1: his kids do all right, don't worry. Don't worry about

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Speaker 1: the Columbus kids. Not that you would, because they do.

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Speaker 1: The King and Queen did place one set of limitations

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Speaker 1: on him. I'm gonna quote from a write up in

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Speaker 1: American Heritage here and written instructions to Columbus issued from

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Speaker 1: Barcelona on May. The King and Queen were explicit in

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Speaker 1: their mandate respecting treatment of the Indians. Now, not only

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Speaker 1: was us to make their conversion to the Christian faith

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Speaker 1: is first order of business. But the monarchs also firmly

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Speaker 1: decreed that they were not to be molested or coerced

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Speaker 1: in any way. They instructed Columbus as he prepared for

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Speaker 1: his second voyage. And because this can best be done

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Speaker 1: after the arrival of the meet in good time, the

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Speaker 1: said Admiral shall take measures that those who go therein

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Speaker 1: and those who have gone before here, shall treat the

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Speaker 1: Indians very well and affectionately, without causing them any annoyance whatever.

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Speaker 1: And at the same time, the Admiral shall make some

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Speaker 1: gifts to them in a gracious manner, and hold them

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Speaker 1: in great honor. And if it happens that some persons

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Speaker 1: to treat the Indians badly in any way whatsoever, the

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Speaker 1: said Admiral, as Viceroy and governor for their highnesses, shall

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Speaker 1: meet out severe punishment. So on paper, the King and

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Speaker 1: Queen are like, hey, you have to respect these people.

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Speaker 1: They're so now they're saying you have to respect them

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Speaker 1: because there are there there are servants of our crown

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Speaker 1: now right because they're their property. But they are saying

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Speaker 1: you have to respect them, you have to treat them well,

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Speaker 1: which would seem to say I don't know about you, Michael.

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Speaker 1: When I think about what qualifies as treating someone well,

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Speaker 1: I think not enslaving them is high up on the list.

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Speaker 1: Part of freedom, that's right on the top. I don't

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Speaker 1: but America. Freedom has never been a vaunted trope in America.

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Speaker 1: I just don't think it's you know, doesn't have that

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Speaker 1: ring to it. Uh, it's just it's the second part

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Speaker 1: of the rhyme. Like we all know the forty two

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Speaker 1: Columbus three, the court defined atrocity. Michael, how long how

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Speaker 1: long were you waiting to drop that line? I barely

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Speaker 1: gathered most of what you just said about what's his name? Colombo? Yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: this is this is about Colombo thing the primary hero

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Speaker 1: of Yugoslavian anyway. That's that Actually is a fun story. Um.

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Speaker 1: So this is an area in which Carol Delaney's account

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Speaker 1: of Columbus's motivations diverges significantly from more mainstream interpretations of

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Speaker 1: the historical act. Yes, some might say accurate delay interpretations

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Speaker 1: delay me mark right? Anyway? Um, the whitewashing a genocide,

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Speaker 1: guy E, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 1: In her account of events, Columbus remains the feverishly devoted

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Speaker 1: zealot Leezer focused on finding the Great Con and bringing

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Speaker 1: back wealth for Jerusalem. But bear Grin makes the case

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Speaker 1: that this doesn't really line up with history. Quote, a

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Speaker 1: new realism informed these instructions. There was no more talk

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Speaker 1: of trading with the Great Con, although the possibility that

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Speaker 1: he existed hovered over the voyage. In other words, while

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Speaker 1: he's like still writing about Jerusalem right up to this

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Speaker 1: point when they lay out shipped for their next voyage,

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Speaker 1: they're not talking about that so much anymore. This is

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Speaker 1: all talked about as a business enterprise. They were talking

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Speaker 1: about how to get in there and start making some

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Speaker 1: fucking cash. It's all the same reasons you ever make

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Speaker 1: a sequel to a franchise. It's fascinating that it works

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Speaker 1: in terms of film or any unit of entertainment, but

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Speaker 1: also like, oh, this exploitation went well, Let's do exploitation

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Speaker 1: to exploit harder. All of these contracts, all of the

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Speaker 1: legiti stickle planning is focused on establishing storehouses and deposed

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Speaker 1: to enable trade. And it was all based on the

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Speaker 1: example of the Portuguese in Africa, right, which you might

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Speaker 1: notice had not retaken the Holy Land. They just made

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Speaker 1: a bunch of money, like that was the goal at

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Speaker 1: this point whatever. And I do think one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I do use Delaney, I think she's right in

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Speaker 1: that it is an undertold aspect of his story that

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Speaker 1: he was a religious fanatic who wanted to bring about

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Speaker 1: the apocalypse. Right. I do think that is a worthwhile

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Speaker 1: part of the man's journey. But aren't so many of

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Speaker 1: them like you can You can think about it, like

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Speaker 1: You've got all these guys, these like Christian mega preachers

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Speaker 1: and stuff who become multimillionaires who preach about the apocalypse

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Speaker 1: and the rapture and stuff. And I think some some

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Speaker 1: of them clearly are just grifters, but I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of them believe aspects of it. It's just really

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Speaker 1: easy to temper your belief once you get super fucking rich, right.

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Speaker 1: I think it's also such unique experience that it's almost

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Speaker 1: impossible to project yourself truly into the mindset of someone

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Speaker 1: who in their life knew that they were his of

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Speaker 1: historical import like good for good or bad. Like I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine what it's like to be Hitler or FDR,

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Speaker 1: And I don't think I truly ever will because you'll

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Speaker 1: think about what would I have done during this crisis,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, well, you have to remember that you're

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Speaker 1: a completely different dude who is wildly inaccessible to you.

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Speaker 1: Like they think in a different way. This guy believes

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Speaker 1: the world's gonna end any second. Now, that's got to

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Speaker 1: affect your behaviors. Yes, I mean there's yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot to say about that. Um So the King and

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Speaker 1: quin I do think one of the interesting historical questions

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Speaker 1: here there's a version, a theoretical version in history of

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Speaker 1: a guy who does this and isn't a monster, just

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Speaker 1: like once to figures there's land to the west and

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Speaker 1: wants to sail to it. Um. It is a shame

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Speaker 1: that that guy wound up being such a piece of ship,

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Speaker 1: and also all of the people he brought with him

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Speaker 1: were pieces of ship and it ended in genocide. Um

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Speaker 1: but yeah, there there's there's a I don't know sad

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Speaker 1: uh So the King and Queen, the wealthy nobles who

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Speaker 1: backed them certainly seem to have seen this second venture

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Speaker 1: is worthy of intense investment. The equivalent of many millions

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Speaker 1: of modern dollars were poured into equipping a vast fleet.

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Speaker 1: Right he goes there with like a couple hundred people,

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Speaker 1: Like I think it's just like a hundred people on

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Speaker 1: three boats. It's a very The first journey over is

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Speaker 1: quite small. This new journey will be seventeen ships and

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Speaker 1: something like twelve hundred people. Like this is a so

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Speaker 1: they are you know, they've done the this is the

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Speaker 1: This is when like they get that that second round

402
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Speaker 1: of VC funding and suddenly they're like fucking with a

403
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Speaker 1: couple of billion dollars, right whereas before the countryside, Yeah,

404
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Speaker 1: is this and is there any pretense that they think

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Speaker 1: they might find gold there or is it? Yes? Yes,

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Speaker 1: that is the whole goal at this point is still gold. Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's other spices. Obviously, they're they're pretty sure they're gonna

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Speaker 1: find some spices because they know that spices come from

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Speaker 1: the East East India area and that's where they think

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Speaker 1: they're sailing to. Right, So the people are in this

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Speaker 1: period of time going the other way around and getting spices,

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Speaker 1: so they assume they're going to get spices. So it's

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Speaker 1: not just gold, but gold is the primary thing on

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Speaker 1: their mind. Um, especially because you said Columbus didn't really

415
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Speaker 1: bring back definitive proof of like vast amounts of gold.

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Speaker 1: There's proof, there's some though, and again they know that

417
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Speaker 1: Asia is rich and they think they're in Asia, right,

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Speaker 1: like you do. You have to keep that in mind

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Speaker 1: when it's like, why are they invest doing so much

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Speaker 1: of this? Nobody's got good data on where they are. Um,

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Speaker 1: they just know how to get there. So he's also

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Speaker 1: sent with a representative of the Spanish Crown, an official

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Speaker 1: representative of the of the government, and a noble who

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Speaker 1: could speak for the archdeacon of the Bishop of the

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church. So both of these, both of and in

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Speaker 1: this period, arguably the Spanish crown and the Pope are

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Speaker 1: like the two big powers, right, or at least two

428
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: of them. There's not a whole lot that that can compete,

429
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: right in terms of their like they're raw sort of

430
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: like political power in Europe in this period. Um so

431
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: on Septem Columbus sailed the ocean. I wrote blee in

432
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: here at Michael, I couldn't stop myself. I didn't know

433
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: what else to do. It was not nearly as good

434
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: as what you did. Um. Anyway of note is the

435
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: fact that he pauses on the island of San Sebastian Gomera,

436
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 1: where the local ruler is a woman named Beatrice did Parraza.

437
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: Her husband had been killed by the indigenous people of

438
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: the island for being a prick, and she's kind of

439
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: like a character from an old Greek play. She's alleged

440
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: of at least like luring a bunch of famous and

441
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: prominent knights to her home and then executing them for

442
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: petty crimes after like fucking them. Um. Anyway, Columbus fucked her.

443
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 1: Probably they had a pre existing relationship. It's like a thing.

444
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into it too much, but

445
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: I think it's funny. The voyage itself was uneventful enough

446
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: for our purposes. In short order, Columbus found himself back

447
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: in the Caribbean, and due to bad whether, he's forced

448
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: to make the first landfall of his this voyage on

449
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: an island dominated by a people called the Caribs. Now,

450
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: the Caribs are either at war or locked into an

451
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,479
Speaker 1: outright predatory relationship with the tino Um. On his first voyage,

452
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: Columbus had seen tino with old war wounds and been

453
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: told that they were the result of carib slaving raids.

454
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: There are historians now who will make the argument that

455
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: actually the Tino and the Caribs were in the process

456
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: of making peace after a long series of conflicts when

457
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: Columbus came in and disrupted that and like that that

458
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: fucked up things because the Tina we're like, oh, maybe

459
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: we can use the anyway. Whatever this is, it's just

460
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: too much shocked the system and the peace talks fell

461
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: apart or what have you. Yeah, there's I mean, I

462
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: I don't think we have great context on that because

463
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: all of these people died or all murdered. Yeah. Um.

464
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: On his first voyage to this area, Columbus had seen

465
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: Tino with old wounds and had been told they were

466
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: the result of carib slaving raids. Now the carib rated

467
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: other Arawak people's in the area. Um. And Columbus seems

468
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: to have believed, because he's interacting with the people who

469
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,239
Speaker 1: are the enemies of the Caribs, that they are cannibals. Um.

470
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: And in fact, in that letter he sent out and

471
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: he writes down friendly yeah, um, well no, no, no,

472
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: actually this is important. He's once he hears from the

473
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: people he's friendly with that there are like dangerous cannibals here,

474
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: he writes back and warns about his sovereigns about the

475
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: cannibal nature of the Caribs and uses it as a

476
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: selling point because since there is a group of people

477
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: in the islands who are clearly dangerous and deranged, it

478
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: has it's okay to enslave them, right, But how do

479
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: you win with someone who wants to enslave you, Because

480
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, these people are so peaceable, we could

481
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: enslave them easily. Oh these people are fighting back. That's crazy.

482
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: We better enslave them if the solution is enslavement. Surprise surprise,

483
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: in part because the sovereigns don't react super well to

484
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: his suggestion that we turn the tyno or whatever into

485
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: serve because like, well, you say, these people are nice

486
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: and easy to christianize, Like, so we have to do that.

487
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: We're not going to enslave them. But Columbus wants to

488
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: make money from selling slaves because he needs quick cash

489
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: and that's the fastest, and so once he finds the Caribs,

490
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: he's like, well, fuck the this is how I can

491
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: start enslaving some people. I don't have to enslave Caribs specifically,

492
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,239
Speaker 1: but if I tell them there's dangerous folks here who

493
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: can't be christianized. I can enslave whoever I want and

494
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: send them back and make quick cash. It's more of

495
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: a war on crime. If you will, yes, yes, yes

496
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: again via very very modern American logic. Here Um carol

497
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: to Laney writes, and this is amazing as evidence that

498
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: he had been to the Indies. He wrote that he

499
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: had brought a few indios the first time in print,

500
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: that the name is given to the native people's and

501
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: promise the riches that he will be able to provide

502
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: in the future gold spices, cotton, mastic, allowood, rhubarb, cinnamon,

503
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: and slaves as many as they should order. Who will

504
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: be from the idolatrs, that is, from the man eating Caribs.

505
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: So he's marking down these people. That's part of like

506
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: the been a fit of hearing that they're cannibals. Is

507
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: now he can add them, with religious justification to his

508
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: list of resources in the area. Because the Tino I

509
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: can slave these dangerous man eaters, you know, that's what

510
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: you want as a slave working alongside you, I think

511
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: is someone trained for war who could eat you? And

512
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: would he here living in my home with me? Um?

513
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk a lot more about this. Despite

514
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: hearing a great deal about the Caribs on their first voyage,

515
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: Columbus didn't really have contact with them in that first trip.

516
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: Now that changes almost as soon as they arrived back

517
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: in the Caribbean. And I'm gonna quote again from American

518
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: heritage here, Columbus and his company had a brief skirmish

519
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: with these Cannibals on the island of Santa Cruz St.

520
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: Croix and one of the Virgin Islands. A Spaniard was

521
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: killed by an arrow and a few of the natives

522
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: were taken a prisoner. The exact number is difficult to

523
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: establish from the three rather confusing eyewitness accounts we have

524
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: of this encounter, but it couldn't have been more than

525
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: a dozen or show, including three or four male adults

526
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: and some women and children. Now, again, the way that

527
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: Columbus frames this is that they tried to meet peacefully,

528
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: and the way Delaney interprets it is they tried to

529
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: have a peaceful meeting and these violent Caribs attack them.

530
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: Now we know that Columbus is just abducting people, like

531
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: straight up abducting people all over the Caribbean. I think

532
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible. He tried to steal some folks, and

533
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: they shot again, and they shot a guy justifiably. Um again.

534
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a group of people to travel

535
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: back in time while wearing a mask so you don't

536
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: get them sick and give a k forty sevens to

537
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: the Caribs in this period should be high up on

538
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: your list. Right, they're already dealing with krakens and ship

539
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: They don't need to speak their language to teach them

540
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 1: how to kill Europeans with a collash. It's very easy.

541
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: So after this skirmish, Columbus had his soldiers proceed in

542
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: force to a Carib village. Europeans who were with him

543
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: at the time wrote that these people practiced the quote

544
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: a cursed vice of sodomy, which goes right up there

545
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: with cannibalism. On reasons why they can't be Christianized, they

546
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: decided that the Caribs had introduced sodomy to the other people. Basically,

547
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: they noticed people doing a lot of fucking that repressed

548
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: Catholics don't do, and they're like, this must be the

549
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: evil Caribs teaching them how to fun. And they're always like, uh,

550
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: this must be the first time anyone ever thought of that,

551
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: because I can't even conceive of something so discussing. We

552
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: must be the save and destroy these dangerous Caribs to

553
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: stop this, like we approached the very heart of but stuff,

554
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: the origin itself. Yeah, yes, the Cribs are patient zero

555
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: for butt stuff. I would wear that crowd. Yeah, all

556
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: all respect to the Caribs. Um. They also reported that

557
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: the Caribs engaged in what was either castration or is

558
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: perhaps more likely, some form of circumcision. They seem to

559
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: have been doing something surgical to the genitals of some

560
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: of their young people. Now, Carol Delaney insists that it

561
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: was castration because that is the word that the Spanish

562
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: doctor with the fleet used, and clearly he must know

563
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: what he's talking about, even though this is the fourteen

564
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: nineties and I think it's fair to say doctors are

565
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: not doctors in this period. Yeah, more than so. Maybe

566
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: he maybe they were castrating boys. For certain, the cultures

567
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: have done that right to some to some young people

568
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: at points in time. This may be an example of

569
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: again because of the genocide, we don't of great and

570
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: maybe an example of perhaps this is a thing where

571
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: they had different attitudes towards gender and like some people

572
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: who identified some way had a procedure that we don't

573
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: really know what's going on with this, but yeah, other

574
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: scholars are ready to note that back then. Yeah, like

575
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,239
Speaker 1: again Carol Delaney takes it is written that like they

576
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: are abusing children and that that's part because she's making

577
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: the case that these this is like these are dangerous

578
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: indigenous people who have vile and evil traditions that has

579
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: and then so then enslavem Okay, well that's literally the

580
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: argument she's about to make. Um, but I think it

581
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: is important to other scholars are like, we don't the

582
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: doctor was not a great doctor, We don't have great content.

583
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: We have no idea what was going on. And a

584
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: lot of cultures, including Jewish people, right, do have have

585
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: like surgeries that they do on you know, uh, circumcision

586
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: and stuff. We don't know what was going We don't

587
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: know what these people were doing, but we do not

588
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: have enough data to say that they were abusing anybody, right, Um,

589
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: that's just racism. Uh So anyway, um, yeah, the Caribs

590
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: that they encountered. Yeah, anyway, there's a number of things

591
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: that could have been happening either way, Columbus captured a

592
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: bunch of these people, uh and enslaves them and sends

593
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: them to Spain. He burns all of their canoes to

594
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: stop them from traveling to other islands and telling them

595
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: about sodomy. And here's here's how Carol Delaney justifies this.

596
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: From among the girls, mutilated, boys, and adults that the

597
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: Caribs had enslaved, Columbus rescued as many as he could,

598
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: took them aboard the already crowded and returned them to

599
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: their homes. In addition, Columbus wrote that the men found

600
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: an orphaned year old baby whom he entrusted to a

601
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: woman who came from Castile, and said that once the

602
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: child learns the language, he would send him to Spain.

603
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: Columbus did not specify whether the woman was Spanish or Indian,

604
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: though it is possible that she was Columbus's domestic servant.

605
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: Um Columbus said, I am vengeance, swear to me, and

606
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: the scum fled into the night, never to return. Oh, Michael,

607
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: very very pro Columbus bent here. I can see. Yeah, yeah,

608
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: it's it's good. So we'll continue talking about the Caribs

609
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: in a bit. But After this encounter, Columbus fleet sails

610
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: on and he makes it to Navadad, where they found

611
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: the settlement that had he had left there like a

612
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: few months before, raised to the ground. Everyone there was dead.

613
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: They're like anymore. They all get their asses killed. So

614
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: when they find the corpses of their former shipmates, all

615
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: of the eyes have been removed, which is pretty rad um.

616
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: So eventually he gets into contact with the indigenous folks,

617
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: was particularly the Casique that he had befriended before, and

618
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: he learns the whole story. And here's how Delaney describes it.

619
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: The men had begun to fight among themselves, had formed

620
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: into groups and gone on rating parties to the neighboring

621
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: area belonging to the Casque Canabo. They stole goods, raped

622
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: the women, kidnapped them, and took them back to Novadad

623
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: as concubines. Not surprisingly, Cannabo retaliated by attacking the garrison,

624
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: killing all the men and burning their village. Columbus decided

625
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: to pay a visit to Guacan to guacan Ar Guacanagari

626
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: and learn his side of the story. Dressed in full regalia,

627
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: he and one hundred men, accompanied by pipes and drums

628
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: marched to Guacanagari's village, about ten miles inland. Guacanagari confirmed

629
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: Diego's report. He felt responsible to Columbus and was chagrined

630
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,479
Speaker 1: that he had not been able to keep his promise

631
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: to protect the European men. He said that when he

632
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: tried to help them, he was struck by a large

633
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: stone and injured. Dr Chanka could see no evidence of

634
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: a wound, but Columbus decided not to press the issue

635
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: and invited Guacanagari on board a dinner. There for the

636
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: very first time the Indian chief saw a horse. Over dinner,

637
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: Columbus learned that the men had been hoarding gold that

638
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: they had either founder stolen and had not reported it

639
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: for the crown. They had also been taking women and

640
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: even girls as concubines. So first off, what's happened here

641
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: is that the many leaves behind start taking sex slaves,

642
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: many of which your children, and abusing them and they

643
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: get murdered for it. And the guy who's Columbus's friend

644
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: tries to intervene, and they like club him on the

645
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: head with a rock, and I do love that. Like, Yeah, anyway,

646
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 1: there's a lot that's funny about that bit so much

647
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 1: so I'm paying not the least of which is they're

648
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: taking underage sex slaves and then saying it's okay for

649
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: us to enslave you because you do funked up ship

650
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: like you take under age sex slaves. Yeah, exactly, like, yeah,

651
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 1: you're abusing abide that, um, which we would have yelled

652
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: at these guys if we'd caught them doing it, I

653
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: promise you, right. You know who else yells at people

654
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: who take underage sex slaves? Michael, I do, But I

655
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: think we should share that information with the audience that

656
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: they can bonsors of this podcast. Oh yeah, yeah, the

657
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: sponsors of this podcast. Um, they hate sex slavery and

658
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: we're back, ah Michael, Yeah, Mikhail, as you're known in Russia,

659
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: where you have a huge fan base, I assume I'll

660
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 1: make the same assumption from now on. Thanks. Uh yeah. Um.

661
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: So this gets to one of my favorite things about

662
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: Delaney's book that described because that is a for a

663
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: woman who's whitewashing Columbus, pretty horrible description of these guys

664
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: at Novedad right, She very to her credit, describes them

665
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: as a bunch of guys who needed to get killed,

666
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,959
Speaker 1: you know, Um, that's my favorite thing about her book.

667
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: She does not whitewash the brutality of the Spanish occupiers.

668
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: She portrays them as All of the men Columbus takes

669
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: with him are constantly depicted as rapists in slavers and

670
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: vicious gold christ psychopaths, which they were, But Columbus is

671
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: shown as this this decent, hard working band. He was

672
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: like constantly putting out fire. It's like, yeah, it's like

673
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: if John Luke Piccard, if everyone else on the enterprise,

674
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: we're just asshole. Yeah. And he's just trying to stop

675
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: it in hand. Yeah, he's he's constantly trying to maintain

676
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: noble and decent relationships with the locals despite all of

677
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: the viciouses of the men he puts. And that's who

678
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: makes everything go wrong, is these bad guys who he

679
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: puts in charge and brought with him to the New World.

680
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: But it's not his fault that they're all bad people. Um.

681
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: It is a very funny balance to try to strike,

682
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: and she does it badly. Here's one example of her

683
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: exculpaid in Columbus in this passage about the fact that

684
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: every town and forth he set up rebels from his

685
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: control and turns into bands of arms spaniards, murdering and

686
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: raping children, um and taking gold for themselves. Quote. Columbus

687
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: was a sailor and a navigator. He was not cut

688
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: out for the job of administrator even less his tractor

689
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 1: and he had no training for this role. But now

690
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: he was confronted with the task of organizing his motley

691
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: group of settlers in Decadres for work by himself, because

692
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: he begged for that position, because for that job it's

693
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 1: very fun, you know. I think we can all talk

694
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 1: about this now, Michael, having all worked at Cracked together,

695
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: we were in this position of a bunch of people

696
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: who wanted to be creative folks making videos and writing articles,

697
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: being put into management positions and like dealing with budgets

698
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: and dealing with like corporate stuff that we were not

699
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: super well suited for. And there were some complications as

700
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: a result of that. But one of the complications was

701
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: not that all of our subordinates formed murder gangs and

702
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,479
Speaker 1: stole gold from people to genocide. I didn't have eyes

703
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: on Brockway and Sean Baby at all times because they were,

704
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: you know, living out there, So I can't completely vouch

705
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: for that. Yeah, but by and large we got by

706
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: company did demand that we committed genocide, and I did.

707
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: We should probably say that, Yeah, we stepped away. You know,

708
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: we're heroes France. Why we left. That's what we all

709
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: left of our own volition. They said, next obvious step

710
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: is genesis, genesis slavery, and we were like, I can't

711
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: do it. Not funny, frankly, not not a moral thing,

712
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: just not funny. Very few genocides were funny. Um. Um.

713
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: It is true. She's not wrong that Chris was bad

714
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 1: as an administrator. He is just objectively bad at that job. Um.

715
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: And he also like, it's just very funny to like

716
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: to completely divorce him from a morality of what's happening. Um,

717
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: mainly because he writes letters back talking about how he

718
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: didn't want things to be so bad as they were,

719
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: which is like, yeah, you're you're you're working. That's pretty sweaty, Carol,

720
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: pretty sweat Have you ever played Grand Theft Auto four? Yes,

721
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: of course, where you're the guy who constantly that's right,

722
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: the Nico will constantly scream things like because he was

723
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: the he was the g T a protagonist who was

724
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: sad about murder, so he would scream things like why

725
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: why must I do this? And oh this city? What

726
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: has it made me do? And You're like, I just

727
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: gunned down forty people like you know. That's why when

728
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: we finally got Trevor, I was like, Oh, this is

729
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: a breath of fresh air action. Smash your work. You're

730
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: supposed to be in this game. The Columbus is still

731
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: in a nace. Columbus, well, Columbus is a Trevor, but

732
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: he's acting like a Nico. That's right, Yeah, he's he's

733
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: That's that's definitely the case. Um. So he has a

734
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: damnable time actually finding and setting up gold mines, and

735
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 1: that's all like part of why all of the administrative

736
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: stuff fails is he's constantly leaving the task of setting

737
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: up working towns and trading posts to his incompetent subordinates

738
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 1: because all he cares about is finding gold mines, because

739
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: that's what's going to make his like personal wealth. Bigger

740
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 1: gold mines are still in short supply, he's having trouble

741
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: finding them. So early on in this voyage, when there's

742
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: still not a clear idea of where to start mining gold,

743
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: he gets back into he gets really into the business

744
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: of enslaving people in large numbers, right, We're talking hundreds

745
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: and hundreds and hundreds of people at a time that

746
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 1: he starts sending back in ships. Here's how Delaney tries

747
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: to defend his enslaving of people, because again they start

748
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: like grabbing ship to send back to Spain. With the ships,

749
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: Columbus sent back cinnamon, pepper, cotton, parrots, and sandalwood, and

750
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: some of the gold samples they had collected in order

751
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: to show that the enterprise would be profitable. In addition

752
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: to the profitable materials gathered from nature, Columbus also sent

753
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: human cargo twenty six Indians from the man eating Caribs.

754
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: In doing this, he was following papal policy at the time,

755
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: which pervented enslavement of those that captured in a just war,

756
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: those who resisted Christianization, and those who win against the

757
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: law of nature. The Caribs appeared to fit all three definitions.

758
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: Not only have they resisted and fought against the Christians,

759
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: they contravene the law of nature by acts of sodomy

760
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: and can ballism. And this is how Delaney tries to

761
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 1: minimalize his enslaving people every time, and it is horseship,

762
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: as our other sources will make clear completely. Well, I

763
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 1: was just saying that that was that was not an

764
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: old timey quote either, if I'm gathering for the contents, right,

765
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: So Delaney is saying, and you know they do, but

766
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: stuff which is objectively as contravenes the natural order. Well,

767
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: she's just saying what he's doing. Because we had this

768
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: discussion at the start of like judging people by the

769
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,479
Speaker 1: standards of their times and then trying to judge people

770
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: from objective standards as to like how they measure up.

771
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: And the argument that I'm making, and that most reasonable

772
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: people make, is that Columbus was a really bad guy,

773
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 1: even considering the morals of the times. She is trying

774
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: to say, No, he was perfectly normal. The enslaving of

775
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: the Cribs because they were an enemy in a war

776
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: was perfectly standard, and he was he was in line

777
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: with the horrible nous of the era, and that that

778
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: is a lie. Not that that would make it okay,

779
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: but that's also wrong. On February two four, two and

780
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 1: a half months after the deadly fight with the Caribs

781
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: and his rate on their village, Columbus sends back several

782
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: boats with a massive cargo of slaves in twelve ships

783
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: from Isabella, which is this new heat because Novadad's burnt down,

784
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: he forms a new colony called Valentine's Days coming up.

785
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: He's got to get something, You got to get something down.

786
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: So these there are hundreds of people in this this

787
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: cargo of ships that he sends back, all of whom

788
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: have been captured against their will, and all of whom

789
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: are to be sold in the slave market at Seville.

790
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: Now Columbus sends the captain on that voyage with a

791
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 1: letter to the King and Queen, who had specifically ordered

792
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: him not to enslave the natives. He explained that because

793
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 1: there is no language by means of which this people

794
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: can understand our holy faith, thus are being sent with

795
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: these ships the cannibals, men and women, and boys and girls,

796
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: which their highnesses may order placed in the possession of

797
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: persons from whom they can best learn the language. He

798
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: suggested that the profit from the souls of the said

799
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: cannibals would suggest the consideration that many more from here

800
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: would be better, and their highnesses would lie served in

801
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: this manner, that in view of the need for cattle

802
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: and beasts, and burden for sustaining the people who are here. So,

803
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: in other words, what he's saying is that we need

804
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: more European food because the Europeans don't like eating indigenous food.

805
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: So I want you to sell these slaves who were

806
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: totally cannibals and use the profits in order to buy

807
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: cattle and send them over here so that we can

808
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: get a European settlement going here. Now obviously, and they're like,

809
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: we wanted gold. This is so far from what we discussed,

810
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: is not at all and we had talked about. Um. Now,

811
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote again from American heritage here. There is

812
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: no record of the number of slaves sent with Torres,

813
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: but from all indications, they were considerably more than the

814
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: handful of Caribs taken in the skirmage on Santa Croix,

815
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,479
Speaker 1: which is again what Delaney says, that he just sends

816
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: over a couple of dozen Caribs. Columbus is only known

817
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: encounter with these fierce natives on his second voyage. Most

818
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: of Torres's wrecked cargo must have been made up of

819
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: the inoffensive inhabitants of Espaniola, whose meekness so highly praised

820
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 1: it first by Columbus was being strained to the breaking

821
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: point by the strong armed tactics of the European vaders,

822
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: including Columbus's own periodic kidnappings of groups of natives to

823
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: learn the secrets of the land. As he wrote. It

824
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: is also worth noting that in his letters to the

825
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: King and Queen, Columbus explicitly compared the indigenous people of

826
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: the Indies to the black slaves Portuguese traders were taking,

827
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 1: may or highnesses judge whether they ought to be captured.

828
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: For I believe we could take many of the males

829
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: every year, and an infinite number of women. May you

830
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: also believe that one of them would be worth more

831
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: than three black slaves from Guinea, and strength and ingenuity

832
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: as you will gather from those I am shipping out now.

833
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: So Delanney is like he just the only ones he

834
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: sends over for slaves are a couple of dozen people,

835
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: and they're all Caribs. He had fought with him that

836
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: was justified at the time. No, he is lying. He

837
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: has enslaved a lot more than that of the people

838
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: he was specifically told not to enslave by the King

839
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: and Queen, and he is sending them back and lying

840
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: about who they are in order to make a profit,

841
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 1: and he's eyeing future slaves. Oh really, how many? Infinity

842
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 1: and infinite number? And also the fact that he notes

843
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: that you can enslave women an infinite number. It's because

844
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: he and other Europeans want to rape them, right, Like,

845
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: that's why that's big I was gonna say. His complicated

846
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: startup sales pitch has devolved into an Internet pop up

847
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: ad that just says like, meet infinite women, girl, barely

848
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: legal whatever, any are you a lonely noble in search

849
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: of infinite women? Jesus. Eleven weeks after sending off Torres

850
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 1: and that first load of slaves to Seville, Columbus leaves

851
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: his new colony in the hands of his younger brother Diego.

852
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: He made a noble named Pedro Marguerite, commander of the

853
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: Spanish military forces on the island while he was gone.

854
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: Both of these guys are shipped at the job, and

855
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 1: when he gets back he does find a couple of

856
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: gold mines. Finally, and when he gets back, though, he's

857
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: found that the whole situation on this island he's trying

858
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: to colonize has degenerated. So, first off, marguerite commander of

859
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: the army, leaves his post and goes back to Spain.

860
00:45:58,239 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: He's like, funk it. I don't like it here. This

861
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: is the this isn't a good job. So he leaves

862
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 1: all of his soldiers leaderless, and they just again start

863
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: raiding villages, shooting people to take what they want, and

864
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: raping women at random. Ferdinand Columbus, who's Christopher's legitimate son,

865
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: describes them as quote committing a thousand excesses, for which

866
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: they were mortally hated by the Indians. Las Casas describes

867
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: that quote each one went where he willed among the Indians,

868
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: stealing their property and wives, inflicting so many injuries upon

869
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: them that the Indians resolved to avenge themselves on any

870
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:33,399
Speaker 1: they found alone or in small groups. So that's pretty bad.

871
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: And again Columbus is not ordering them to go on

872
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: these raping and murdering sprees. He's just setting up a

873
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: bunch of armed, unhinged men on the island and then

874
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: abandoning them to look for gold and then being like,

875
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 1: oh my god, a bad thing happened. How could I

876
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: have known? Also, the weird implication is, of course that

877
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: if he's stuck around it would it would have stayed good.

878
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: But you never get proof of that because he never

879
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: sticks around. I will argue you get proof of the

880
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: opposite to see what happens when he does stick and

881
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: guess what, it's actually worse than gags. A local casique Guattanagana,

882
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: finally organizes a cohesive event defense, and this is while

883
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: Columbus is still away. He organizes again. These soldiers are

884
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: just running rough shot over the island, murdering and raping people,

885
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,959
Speaker 1: so gut Iguana organizes a cohesive defense to the raiding

886
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: and the raping. He and his men ambushed ten Spanish

887
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: soldiers and killed them. They killed the ship out of them,

888
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: and then once those guys are dead, they find a

889
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: shelter that the Spanish we're living in where forties six

890
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: soldiers are like recuperating, right because they're all sick, they

891
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: can't defend themselves, so he burns the fucking shack down

892
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: while they're inside it, which cool and good in my opinion.

893
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 1: Um funk those guys. So Columbus gets back to the land, though,

894
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: and he's found out that like a funkload of soldiers

895
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: have been murdered by the locals. I would argue justifiably,

896
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: but Columbus is like, no, this is horrible. And into

897
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: this situation steps another casique, guacana Ari, who we've talked

898
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: about before. This is the guy who Christopher is in

899
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: love with on his first voyage. And I want to

900
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: quote now from a book called The Other Slavery by

901
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: Andres Ricindez. Hearing that Columbus had returned after a long absence,

902
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: Guacanagari immediately visited to declare his innocence in the massacre.

903
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,760
Speaker 1: He had done nothing to aid or encourage the Indians

904
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: who would slaughter the Spanish, and to demonstrate his long

905
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: standing goodwill, recalled the goodwill and hospitality he had always

906
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: shown the Christians. He believed that his generosity towards these

907
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 1: visitors from Afar had provoked the hatred of the other casiques,

908
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: especially the notorious Bahecio, who had killed one of Guacanagari's wives,

909
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: and the thieving Kennabo who had stolen another. Now he

910
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: appealed to the Admiral to restore his wives and obtain revenge.

911
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 1: As Guacanagari narrated this tragic tale, he wept each time

912
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: he recalled the men who had been killed at Le

913
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,919
Speaker 1: Navedad as if they were his own sons. Guacanagari's tears

914
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: won over Columbus, restoring the bond between the Admiral and

915
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: the Cacique. As he considered the situation, Columbus realized that

916
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: the emotional Caseique had provided valuable intelligence about conflicts among

917
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: the Indians, conflicts that Columbus could exploit to punish enemies

918
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: of them, both as an alliance with Guacanagari would enable

919
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: him to settle all scores. Recovering from his breakdown, Columbus

920
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 1: marched forth from Isabella and warlike array, together with his

921
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 1: comrade Guacanagari, who was most eager to rout his enemies.

922
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: Ferdinand wrote, now we know distressingly little about the pre

923
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: contact cultures of the Tyno, of of the different Arawak

924
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: people of the carib But one thing we know for

925
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: certain is that they did not have military technology that

926
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: it could seriously threaten Spanish dominance in the field. They're

927
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: able to carry out some ambushes that are successful when

928
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: they are not organized, but once Columbus puts together an

929
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: actual like battle line and sends it out to fight

930
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: these people in an organized way, it is not there's

931
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 1: no The end result is not in doubt. These people

932
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: have guns and cannons. They're dealing with folks who have

933
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: not even not particularly good bows and arrows, right, Ferdinand,

934
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: who is and even worse than this, honestly, like potentially

935
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: the most nificant weapons system they have are dogs and

936
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: or betrayal, like the element of see they needed to

937
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: read wedding. These motherfucker's is like you get Columbus in

938
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: a room for the peace trade negotiations, stab him in

939
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: his belly twenty times as you always have. You've got

940
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: this one local leader who's like, well, these guys will

941
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: help me deal with my local opponents, right, and I'll

942
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: worry about the fallout later. Exactly. That's the beauty rolls around.

943
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: The girl is simply dieure um so yeah um. Ferdinand,

944
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: who's there with his father, reports that in one battle quote,

945
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: two squadrons of infantry assaulted the multitude of Indians, putting

946
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: them to route with crossbow shots and guns, and before

947
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 1: they could rally, they attacked with horses and dogs. By

948
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: these means, those cowards fled in every direction, and the

949
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: destruction was so great, and that in brief time the

950
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 1: victory was complete Not only did his Majesty's hand guide

951
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: him Columbus and achieving the victory, but he also imposed

952
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: such a severe shortage of food and such varied and

953
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 1: grave infirmities that the Indians were reduced to a third

954
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: of the number they had been before. So it is

955
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 1: clear that from his divine guidance such a marvelous victory ensued.

956
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: When Frindan is writing about is that in this first

957
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: like year or so that he's back in the islands,

958
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: two thirds of these people are the first couple of years,

959
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,240
Speaker 1: two thirds of these people die out right, They start starving,

960
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: they start getting sick, and then they start getting massacred

961
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 1: and and enslaved and sent away in battles. Now, there's

962
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: a number of things that caused this decline in population.

963
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: We'll be talking about this quite a bit um, but

964
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: one of the things is that again he's also he's

965
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: they're shipping going on back and forth, and some of

966
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: it's taking livestock to the islands that the Europeans can

967
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 1: eat in the matter they're accustomed to, which is what

968
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: brings a lot of the diseases that that become increasingly

969
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: a problem here. Now, Delaney again frames all of this

970
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: is just tragedy stemming from the fact that Columbus, who

971
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: is a brilliant explorer and a man of deep faith,

972
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: just isn't a very good leader. And again he is

973
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: not a good leader. But if he was an evil genius,

974
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 1: he could hardly have planned the situation better. And I'm

975
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: gonna quote from that American heritage right up again. This

976
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: was all that Columbus needed to establish a steady supply

977
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: of slaves. He no longer would have to maintain the

978
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: fiction that they were cannibals, despite the fact, even acknowledged

979
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 1: by Ferdinand, that the slain Spaniards had justly earned their

980
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: mortal hatred. Columbus led an expedition against the defenseless Indians

981
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 1: that was incredibly savage and its slaughter of the naked

982
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,720
Speaker 1: islanders and destruction of their villages. The heavily armed Europeans

983
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: were accompanied by ferocious greyhounds, each of which Las Casas wrote,

984
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: in an hour could tear one hundred Indians to pieces.

985
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: Because all the people of the island had the custom

986
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: of going nude from head to foot, many people were

987
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: taken alive, and five hundred were sent to slaves to

988
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: be sold in Castile. Now, this is the first massive

989
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: load of slaves that Columbus sends across the Atlantic, and

990
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,760
Speaker 1: in some ways this is the inauguration of the Atlantic

991
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: slave trade. It starts off going from the Indies across

992
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: the Europe, as opposed to going from Africa um to

993
00:52:56,080 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: to the America's um. Now. Ms. Shel de Cuneo, who's

994
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: an Italian adventurer who goes on Columbus to the second

995
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: edition expedition. He returns with Torres on that boat um

996
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: and in his own account he notes that some six

997
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: hundred captives had actually been gathered at Isabella. The five

998
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 1: d were the most salable, and the rest were given

999
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: out as gifts to colonists. By the time tours as

1000
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: slave ships reached Spain, two hundred of the five hundred

1001
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: captives on board had died um and their corpses were

1002
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: thrown into the ocean. All of the others died pretty

1003
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: soon after the arrival. Now, the fact that the pretense

1004
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: of friendly coexistence had been well and truly shattered, right,

1005
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, oh and these guys, I'll eat people. Right.

1006
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: It's hard to feel that as mattering as you're shoveling

1007
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: hundreds of corpses into the sea. It's like, I don't

1008
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: even care if they did this. Is this is now

1009
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: officially a system of business. Yeah, and again the just

1010
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 1: to clarify some of the time that you have that

1011
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: first ship he sends back, which Delaney says is just

1012
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: twenty six guys. We actually have no idea how many

1013
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: people were on it, and probably includes Taino people that

1014
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: he had just enslaved because he wanted to enslave them.

1015
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: And then there's that massacre of Spanish soldiers. Columbus does

1016
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: a war, kills a bunch of people and enslaves a

1017
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: group of five hundred. He sends them back. Half of

1018
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: them die and all of them are dead pretty soon

1019
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 1: after they arrive in Spain. Like none of them last

1020
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: very long. Imagine that someone swooped down again. I hate

1021
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: to keep us in this metaphor, but in the UFO

1022
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: and abducted you, raped you, brought you to the alien planet,

1023
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: taught you the alien language, and they're and you're like,

1024
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: why did you do this? And they're like, so we

1025
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,720
Speaker 1: could give you our religion and our our religion says

1026
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: you're blessed because you're meat. You're going to inherit the

1027
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: earth thing like, so you you bring me here to

1028
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: tell me how lucky I am and how great this

1029
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: is going for me. Is the wildest aspect of this all.

1030
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: It's the cognitive dissonances off the charts. Yes. Now, by

1031
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 1: this point in his explorations, Columbus had discovered several gold

1032
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: mines and areas in which gold could be pannedful in quantity.

1033
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 1: His sovereigns, repeat lee told him like, as he's sending

1034
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: people over there, sending letters back and being like stop

1035
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: stop enslaving people, like we told you not to do this.

1036
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: It looks like you're just enslaving random locals, like, don't

1037
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 1: do that. Tax them instead. Um. So that's what he

1038
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: starts to do. Um. He because his sovereigns are like

1039
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: yelling at him, um, and because he wants money, he

1040
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 1: decides to institute at tax on all of the people

1041
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: who live in the islands, right because their servants of

1042
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: the crowd now and so they should have to pay

1043
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: their taxes. And the way he sets up the taxes,

1044
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: you know those hawks bells he was getting out, it

1045
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,439
Speaker 1: gifts early on. Instead, he sets so that every three

1046
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: months um an individual has to pay enough tribute in

1047
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: gold to fill a hollow. Hawks bell right, that's you each,

1048
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: oh me gold. And this is the because I've been

1049
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: giving these out is you thought these were gifts. This

1050
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: is an example of how much you owe us and

1051
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: fucking taxes. Um So, the hawkson a gift into awesome.

1052
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,240
Speaker 1: It's pretty fucked up. It's like sending someone a roomba

1053
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: for their birth day and they open it up and

1054
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: they're like, this room but exclusively sucks money out of

1055
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: your wallet, yeah, and delivers it to me. Um So.

1056
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: To ensure that everyone pays their taxes, he Columbus orders

1057
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 1: all of the people on the islands to wear a

1058
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: metal disc around their neck that shows whether or not

1059
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: they'd paid their taxes recently. Failure to pay could be

1060
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,839
Speaker 1: punished brutally. Those who rebelled, as many did, or tried

1061
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: to hide and avoid the tax, were hunted down and

1062
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: sold into slavery, which is again basically a death sentence.

1063
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 1: Every indigenous person older than fourteen was subject to the tax,

1064
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: which effectively turned what had been an island of free

1065
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: people into an island of slaves. Among the Spaniards, it

1066
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: was not universally agreed that this was just One account

1067
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: of horror came from a man named Washington Irving, who wrote, quote,

1068
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: in this way was the yoke of servitude fixed upon

1069
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: the island, and it's thralled them effectively ensured. Deep despair

1070
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 1: now fell on the natives when they found a perpetual

1071
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: task inflicted upon them. Weaken, indolent by nature, unused to

1072
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: labor of any kind, and brought up in the untapped

1073
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: idleness of their soft climate in their fruitful groves, death

1074
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: itself seemed preferable to a life of toil and anxiety.

1075
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: They saw no end to this harassing evil which had

1076
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: so suddenly fallen upon them, no prospect of a return

1077
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: to that roving independence and ample leisures. So dear to

1078
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: the wild inhabitants of the forest. The pleasant life of

1079
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: the island was in an end. They were now obliged

1080
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: to grope day by day, with bending body and anxious eye,

1081
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: along the borders of their rivers, sifting the sands for

1082
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: the grains of gold, which every day grew more scanty,

1083
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: or to labor in the fields beneath the fervor of

1084
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: a tropical sun to raise food for their taskmasters, or

1085
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: to produce the vegetable tribute imposed upon them. They sunk

1086
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: to sleep, weary and exhausted at night, with the certainty

1087
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: that the next day was to be a repetition of

1088
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: the same toil and suffering. So that's a nice description

1089
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 1: of what it means to bring capitalism to an island

1090
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: of people who don't know it, right, Like, that's basically

1091
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 1: what's happening here. These people, you know, they had rulers,

1092
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: Slavery existed, like, there was nasty things, they had more,

1093
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, most people were

1094
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: able to go about their lives living on a daily basis.

1095
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: Did no one it's been done like capitalism, it hits different. Yeah, yeah,

1096
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: they are in a much worse state of affairs. Like

1097
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: now we all wear metal collars and live in gray

1098
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: boxes and work in a steel mill. We're not allowed

1099
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: to fuck anymore. Somehow, it's even more depressing than it was,

1100
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: even though before it was still a like relatively brutal

1101
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,919
Speaker 1: period of history. It was still a more difficult life

1102
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: than a lot of people live today, but it was

1103
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: a hell of a lot easier than what it becomes.

1104
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: Um now by this point Columbus has found again, He's

1105
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: got the primarily the minds that he finds the good

1106
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: gold mines are in Sabow, which is part of the

1107
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: modern day Dominican Republic. But gold was also like, it's

1108
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: not the only precious substance that he's got armed men

1109
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: forcing the locals to mind for him. And I'm gonna

1110
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: quote from the other slavery again for sheer horror and

1111
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: attrition rates. The Pearl coast was worse. Indian divers there

1112
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: spend agonizing days making repeated descents of up to fifty

1113
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: feet well holding their breath for a minute or more.

1114
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: Few natives could endure these brutal conditions for long, so

1115
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: ace they find out there's pearls, he makes people like

1116
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: free dive to grab them all day, every day, like

1117
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: repeatedly making these like two atmosphere descents and then going

1118
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: back up, which can kill you if you are doing

1119
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: it properly, or even if you are just because it's

1120
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: not a day. Yeah. Now, the harshness of the tax

1121
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: system levied upon these people who were also beset by

1122
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: the disruptions. There's a war which disrupt things and make

1123
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 1: sure there's widespread disease. Now there's crop failures because they're

1124
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: being taken and forced to mind because there's these wars

1125
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: going on. Um. All of this makes meeting Columbus as

1126
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: quotas basically impossible. After three collection periods, the natives had

1127
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: provided just two hundred pacos worth of gold out of

1128
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: the sixty thou pacos that Columbus decided they owed arbitrarily. Yeah,

1129
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: that's a scope for this project. Since the local caciques

1130
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: had failed to meet their numbers, the Spaniards now have

1131
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: to take over, right. We tried to let you govern yourselves,

1132
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: but you just couldn't make your taxes. So now we're

1133
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 1: sending an armed men to take total control of the process.

1134
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: Andres Rescindez writes an average size trench produced more than

1135
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: six thousand pounds of dirt mixed with the tiniest fragments

1136
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: of gold. The Indians carried this dirt on their bare

1137
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 1: backs and loats, waiting three to four arobas about sixty

1138
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: nine pounds. These were very heavy burdens considering the slender

1139
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: build of most of the laborers. The work proceeded ceaselessly

1140
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: all day. Instead of using valuable beasts of burden, the

1141
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 1: Spanish compelled natives to do all the hauling horses and

1142
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 1: mules were devoted to the tasks of conquest and pacification.

1143
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: The Indians were even forced to carry their Christian masters

1144
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: and hammocks. As a result, they developed huge soars on

1145
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 1: their shoulders and backs, as happens with animals made to

1146
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: carry excessive loads, commented friar Less Cassas, who arrived at

1147
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: Espaniola right at the time of the gold rush. And

1148
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 1: this is not to mention the floggings, beatings, thrashings, punches, curses,

1149
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: and countless other vexations and cruelties to which they were

1150
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: routinely subjected into which no chronicle could ever do justice.

1151
01:00:57,720 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: And again, las Casas is a guy who has a

1152
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: lot of admire ration in many ways for Christopher Columbus,

1153
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 1: and he's he's he's a fucking Catholic holy man, right,

1154
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: so he's very much into the hole. We have to

1155
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: convert everyone we can. But he's also a human being

1156
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: and enough of one that he he watches this happening

1157
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: and it's like, there is no way in which this

1158
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 1: is okay with God. This is a nightmarish crime. What

1159
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: I he And again, this is part of why you

1160
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: have to condemn these people. Outside of their times, because

1161
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: Las Casas is not looking at what the Portuguese are

1162
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 1: doing in a um and Guinea and being like, this

1163
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: is an unconscionable crime, because that is it's bad, but

1164
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 1: it is a bad that is normal for the era.

1165
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: He looks at what is being done in these islands

1166
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: and he says, this is the worst thing standing. This

1167
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: is an exceptional act of evil. Um that is that

1168
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: deserves to ring out in history. Um So, Over the

1169
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: next years, the late fourteen nineties and the yearly fifteen hundreds,

1170
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: a madness for gold overtakes the Spanish and crowds of

1171
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: it and jrews flooded the region to take command of

1172
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: minds and force indigenous people to labor for their wealth.

1173
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 1: And it's height, the island yielded more than two thousand

1174
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: pounds of gold per year. It is said that the

1175
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: Spanish owners through parties attended by slaves in which these

1176
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 1: salt shakers were filled with gold dust, which is good

1177
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: to eat. Ye kind of like rich people today, we'll

1178
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: put gold leaf on ship, even though it doesn't taste

1179
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: like anything and has no nutritional value, just because like,

1180
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: look at the money we're wasting. We went full squid

1181
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: games before and it did not take long at all. Mike.

1182
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: I always imagine that was like like a five year process.

1183
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: You're snorting coke, putting gold on your burger, watching like

1184
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 1: the pores fight to the deaths happened immediately. It is

1185
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 1: less than a decade between. Look at this unspoiled island

1186
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 1: full of beautiful people who are ready to learn the

1187
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: Gospel of Christ to let's see on the food wasted.

1188
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: Fuck them, let's see gold while we watched them fight

1189
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: in their collars and their shackles. Jesus so quick that

1190
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 1: this so fast. And again we're contrasting this to what

1191
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: the Portuguese are doing in Guinea, not because it's okay,

1192
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: because that is the start of the slave trade in Africa,

1193
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: which is a crime absolutely on the level of the

1194
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 1: genocide of like it is a nightmarish crime. It's just

1195
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: at this point in time, that's not yet what they're doing, right,

1196
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 1: it has not really they are not yet taking huge

1197
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: masses of people from Africa and putting them on islands

1198
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: to work them to death. They do that because they

1199
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: kill all of these people, right, That's why the the

1200
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 1: that that like the African slave trade really gets going

1201
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,919
Speaker 1: is because they like they genocide enough of the people

1202
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: in the Caribbean that they bring in workers to kill

1203
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: in plantations and ship and mind um. Anyway, it's all connected,

1204
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. Uh. It is understood that the

1205
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 1: gold is not going to last forever, and it's obvious

1206
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: to everyone that the local labor force is dying very quickly.

1207
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: The early miners, and when I say miners, I mean

1208
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 1: the Spanish people who own the minds, had a saying quote,

1209
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 1: take the most advantage because you do not know how

1210
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: long it will last, like there there and this is

1211
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: you see this with um. This is the reason why

1212
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: the British Empire in a couple hundred years from now,

1213
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: when they take over chunk of India, carry out a

1214
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: starvation genocide right because they're shortsightedly trying to maximize profits

1215
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: in such a way that makes it unable for people

1216
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: to feed themselves and so thirty million people die. But

1217
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: they think the same logic is the same. It's like, I,

1218
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: as an individual, have to get as much as I

1219
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 1: can out of here immediately, because all that matters is

1220
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: like the quarterly balance sheet. Basically, these people it's once logic.

1221
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: That's what this is what's so important because the fucking people,

1222
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: the right wingers who raised me, made a big point

1223
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 1: of talking about all of the deaths under state communism,

1224
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: which is an important story and we've talked about on

1225
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 1: the show, and you should not ignore the Holodomor and

1226
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: the Great Leap Forward and all of the different bad

1227
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: things that were done by state communist regimes. The death

1228
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 1: toll of capitalism is at least as high, if not

1229
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: much higher. And it's starts here, right, Um, I mean

1230
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 1: it starts a little bit like yeah, like these are

1231
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: not yet kind of the joint stock companies that will

1232
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 1: be recognizable, but the motivation is the same. We are here.

1233
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: Our goal is to use these human beings who we

1234
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: have a right to take from in terms of taxes um,

1235
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: in order to create a profitable enterprise. And all that

1236
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: matters from me is getting the short term profits as

1237
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 1: quickly as possible out of here um and whatever happens

1238
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: to them as the result, whatever is done to this

1239
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 1: land as a result, doesn't matter. This is not the

1240
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: only time in history that this has happened, but it's

1241
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: the first time it's happened like this. The Romans did

1242
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: little versions of this. The Romans never completely wiped out

1243
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: a people, right, even as bad as the ship they

1244
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 1: did in Israel was um, they didn't do this. This

1245
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: is new. This is a destruction of a people on

1246
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 1: a scale that has not Maybe some of the ship

1247
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 1: that Genghis Khan was doing compares um, but it's that's

1248
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: the stage for some uniquely American thoughts like money over everything,

1249
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 1: or it's just business, you know, like this, it's amazing

1250
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: how early on it's set the tone for in this place.

1251
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: It is like gold crushes the end, like might makes right.

1252
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: We carry that tradition onto this day, like I don't.

1253
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: It's it's fascinating to hear about these people that you

1254
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: know that he left behind, the go hog wild and

1255
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: viking all over everything, and you're like, yeah, it's it's

1256
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 1: like ever since the beginning, America has been want a

1257
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: barrel full of single bad apples, and whenever you cover

1258
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 1: for it, you point to one and go, well, there

1259
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: was a bad apple, or like Columbus couldn't lead you,

1260
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 1: like right, what about all the other stuff and the

1261
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: other stuff and the other stuff. It's there's bad apples

1262
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: all the way down as we taught you and I

1263
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: talked about in fact in the episodes about like the

1264
01:06:54,800 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 1: first corporations the West the British Eastern companies, um, which

1265
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 1: are two separate companies. Um. When we talked about those,

1266
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 1: we were talking about actual recognizable corporate in a modern sense.

1267
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 1: They function basically the same way as a modern corporation does. UM.

1268
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 1: And that's what and that is like an actual capitalism

1269
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:16,439
Speaker 1: and that like it is a group of people using

1270
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: their capital in order to own the rights to the

1271
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: profit of labor of other people. Right, UM, what's happening here?

1272
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: You do not have that advanced an idea like these

1273
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 1: are not corporate they're doing this for the crown but

1274
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 1: also for their own individual benefit. But what you do

1275
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: have here is this idea that has led to most

1276
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: of the problems we are encountering now with stuff like

1277
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: climate change, with Chevron covering up what they knew about

1278
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 1: climate change since the nineteen seventies. Is like the forging

1279
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 1: of the ethos. The sacred thing is short term profits

1280
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: and anything that gets in the way of that, that's

1281
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 1: actually like a problem. But you know what else is sacred? Michael?

1282
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 1: What what just products and services and support? This podcast

1283
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 1: Sacred and ad as Lee separate from any of the

1284
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: ideas going on with the Spaniards massacring people. Here, We're

1285
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 1: not taking part in a gold rush over a new

1286
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 1: type of media that is easy to exploit profitably now

1287
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:17,679
Speaker 1: and perhaps in ways that are shortsighted. Um. No, it's

1288
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 1: just the fact that you must do anything to achieve

1289
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:27,680
Speaker 1: shareholder growth, no matter what that's occur anywhere anymore. We

1290
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 1: got over it, okay. So, despite regular admonishments from the Royals,

1291
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 1: Columbus continued to send enslaved human beings back to Europe

1292
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 1: during this period, where he's also tax genociding them. Due

1293
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 1: to the high death rate, each boat was crammed as

1294
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: full of people as possible, which is again this is

1295
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 1: where we because I really am not. I hope people

1296
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: do not read that I'm trying to minimize the Portuguese

1297
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 1: slave trade in Guinea. But the stuff that becomes so

1298
01:08:57,120 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 1: famous about the African slave trade, how cram They aren't

1299
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: these nightmareeships where millions of people literally diet. It is

1300
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 1: a slavery genocide that is eventually carried out there. That

1301
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:10,559
Speaker 1: is not the way the slave trade looks quite yet

1302
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:12,840
Speaker 1: in Africa, right, which is not to say that it's

1303
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: not horrible. They are enslaving people. That's ugly. They are

1304
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 1: not this is the start of well, because the death

1305
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:18,960
Speaker 1: threat is going to be so high, we have to

1306
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 1: jam as many people as possible in the boats as

1307
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: we can, and like we have this kind of um,

1308
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: this rhythmetic of death for profit. Right, that is, this

1309
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:28,680
Speaker 1: is where a lot of you are going to lose

1310
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 1: expects exactly. Um. This leads to problems as well, such

1311
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 1: as when a flotilla of five ships were stuck in

1312
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 1: San Domingo Harbor for two and a half weeks while

1313
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 1: Columbus negotiated with a guy. So he puts this guy

1314
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 1: in charge of his militia when he's away finding gold.

1315
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 1: This guy rebels again and then Columbus has to like

1316
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 1: talking about right, but this is like the third time

1317
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: it's occurred. Um. So he's while he's negotiating with this

1318
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 1: guy to like figure out this issue and get trade restarted.

1319
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: He has boats in his harbor that are crammed full

1320
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 1: of people that he has captured, and he leaves them

1321
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 1: there for two and a half weeks, crammed into the

1322
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: hold while he's negotiating, just leaving your baby in your

1323
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 1: truck with the window the sun is so like they suffocate.

1324
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: Las Casas writes that quote, unable to breathe from anguish

1325
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 1: in the closeness of their quarters, they smothered, and an

1326
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 1: infinite number of these Indians perished, and their bodies were

1327
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 1: thrown into the sea downstream. Columbus is like preoccupied dealing

1328
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 1: with this guy that he's got a bit. And then

1329
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 1: he like comes, oh, they all died. I left them

1330
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 1: all in the boats and they all died. Throw their

1331
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:36,559
Speaker 1: corpses in the water. Let's grab some more. That's the again.

1332
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 1: And that is bad for the time. That is an

1333
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 1: exceptional act of human evil, which is what he's guilty.

1334
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: I know that. I just Delaney's Columbus's writing. So he

1335
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: wasn't the best business man, so he lost. There was

1336
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: a lot of shrinkage in the trade. He was engaged.

1337
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: And I'm so fucking angry at this woman, her color.

1338
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: This never loses his missionary zeal or his desire to

1339
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: find the Great Khan and the horrors that occur as

1340
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:08,759
Speaker 1: Spanish domination. Because she doesn't deny that there's a genocide occurring,

1341
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: right she does not try to whitewash the genocide. This

1342
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 1: is all, but it's portrayed as tragic results of the

1343
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: evils of other men. The reality is that Columbus the

1344
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 1: governor writes back to his sovereigns regularly nearly overcome with

1345
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: glee at the financial prospects of this new slave trade.

1346
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: From here one can, in the name of the Holy Trinity,

1347
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: send all the slaves that can be sold, of which,

1348
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: if the information I have is correct, they could sell

1349
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 1: for four thousand and at minimum value, they would be

1350
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: worth twenty millions, and four thousand quintalls of Brazil would

1351
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 1: which would be worth at least as much. At an

1352
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 1: expense of six millions. It would appear that forty millions

1353
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:45,479
Speaker 1: could be realized if there is no lack of ships,

1354
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:47,200
Speaker 1: which I believe, with the aid of the Lord, that

1355
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 1: will not be once they are filled on this voyage.

1356
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:52,599
Speaker 1: So again he's very much thinking about this purely from

1357
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 1: a here's what they're worth. Here is the cash value,

1358
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 1: because I'm getting a cut from it. Right, He's getting

1359
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 1: like a quarter of all of the value of the trade.

1360
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:03,599
Speaker 1: Las Casas, who was also doing math, just pulling shit

1361
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:07,639
Speaker 1: out of his ass that He's like, yeah, Like, well,

1362
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: I mean there worth this, And according to my previous letter,

1363
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: there's infinite women. So if you scale it at infinity,

1364
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 1: that's quite a lot. There's no way he can have

1365
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 1: firm numbers on this ship. I just don't buy it,

1366
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:24,800
Speaker 1: and he doesn't, right. Um, So when it comes to

1367
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,639
Speaker 1: properly condemning a man like Columbus, we must note again

1368
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 1: others of his peers at the time, people who are

1369
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 1: watching this are horrified. Las Casas, who is utterly unsparing

1370
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 1: in his description of what Columbus is doing. What greater

1371
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 1: or more supine hardheartedness and blindedness can there be than this?

1372
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:43,960
Speaker 1: In the name of the Holy Trinity, he Columbus could

1373
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: send all the slaves which could be sold in all

1374
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 1: the said kingdoms. Many times, I believe blindness and corruption

1375
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: infected the Admiral, which is you know, I don't think

1376
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,560
Speaker 1: blindness is, but certainly corruption. Yeah no, this this is

1377
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 1: the same speech my dad gives me every Thanksgiving, and

1378
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,759
Speaker 1: it's devastating every time. It's quite a takedown. Well, Michael,

1379
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: you you do operate a pretty pretty brutal business enslaving people. Um,

1380
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 1: you know, I I happen to think that it's justified

1381
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 1: that you're sending them to Blue Apron's island where they

1382
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 1: will be hunted. Um but but a lot of people

1383
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:20,799
Speaker 1: think probably shouldn't be enslaving children for the Blue Apron corporate.

1384
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 1: They will be served tastefully in a like cost impactful

1385
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 1: ready to way, Yeah, wrapped in an unfortunate amount of

1386
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 1: plastic as well, which makes all my users cannibals, which

1387
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:38,639
Speaker 1: then justifies me enslaving them, and the whole system perpetuates it. Michael,

1388
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: it's not said enough. Anny a candy businessman, thank you,

1389
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 1: thank you. Um I learned it from Columbus. Yeah, we

1390
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 1: all did you know the only businessman Chris sie um

1391
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:56,839
Speaker 1: so h. Christopher Columbus. The King and Queen initially accept

1392
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 1: his claims that the people he's sending them are all

1393
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 1: cannibals capture it in war and thus fair targets for enslavement.

1394
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 1: But they start to grow concerned. Is he just keeps

1395
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 1: on sending back ships full of dead people? Right? Um?

1396
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 1: So because they're they're they're worried. They get framed often

1397
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 1: as like being super sympathetic to the natives because some

1398
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 1: of the stuff they write is in terms of its

1399
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 1: writing very sympathetic. The main thing they do is they

1400
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 1: convene a counsel of like scholars and religious experts to

1401
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:27,680
Speaker 1: try and determine if it's okay to enslave these people. Um,

1402
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 1: we don't actually know what this committee decided. Eventually it

1403
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: came to some decision. We have no idea what it was.

1404
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 1: That that information has been lost because again record keeping

1405
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: wasn't perfectly speriod, but we know that their concerns did

1406
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: very little to slow this process. It is probably worth

1407
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 1: noting that Queen Isabella did late in life, makes something

1408
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 1: of a name for herself as an advocate for indigenous rights.

1409
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 1: By four she was horrified by the constant shiploads of

1410
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 1: dead and dying enslaved people and asked, who was this

1411
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 1: Columbus who dares to give out my vassals as slaves.

1412
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 1: She and her husband did free a lot of these people.

1413
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 1: A decent number of these people are freed when they

1414
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 1: arrived because they're like, what the funk he sent us

1415
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 1: another ship of people We didn't want this um, and

1416
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:09,679
Speaker 1: some of them even make it back to the New World.

1417
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 1: Nearly all of them choose to go back when they're

1418
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 1: giving in the times when they're given the option. By

1419
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 1: the end of the fifteen hundreds, Columbus Star had faded

1420
01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:22,479
Speaker 1: at court. In late four he sent a letter back

1421
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 1: to his master's proposing a sale of four thousand slaves.

1422
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: The letter came with several so these colonists who rebel

1423
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 1: when he's sitting there with a boats full of people,

1424
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 1: he sends a bunch of them back to Spain with him,

1425
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 1: and in order to keep them happy, he gives each

1426
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: of them a slave. So he enslaves six hundred Tino

1427
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 1: to give these rebellious colonists as slaves when they return home.

1428
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,760
Speaker 1: So they come home with a dude or as is

1429
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:49,360
Speaker 1: often the case, with a young woman Um and this fleet.

1430
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 1: So this when this fleet arrives back in Spain, he's

1431
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:54,599
Speaker 1: number one. All of these people who rebelled have been

1432
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 1: given enslaved people. And number two Columbus is like, I

1433
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 1: want to enslave four thousand more people and send them back.

1434
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 1: Is that with you, guys? Um? And if not, is

1435
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:05,680
Speaker 1: there a way I could throw slaves at the problem? Yes? Yes?

1436
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: And this comes back with number one the fact that

1437
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 1: all of the colonists he sending back are people who

1438
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 1: had rebelled and been sent back means like the king

1439
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 1: and Queen are like, he might not be good at

1440
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: running this colony um. But also other people are coming

1441
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:22,360
Speaker 1: back from the New World at the time and being like, hey,

1442
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 1: he's kind of sucks at everything. You might not want

1443
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:29,240
Speaker 1: to leave him in charge of this um. And I'm

1444
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:32,000
Speaker 1: after four or five ships full of dead bodies. I'd

1445
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 1: be like, is this are you to say, I don't

1446
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:40,839
Speaker 1: think he's good at this. I'm gonna quote from American

1447
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:45,640
Speaker 1: heritage here. The sixteenth century historian Antonio di Herrera de Tortresila,

1448
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:48,680
Speaker 1: also a great admirer of Columbus, wrote that many of

1449
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:51,400
Speaker 1: the charges brought by the white residents of Espanola against

1450
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 1: the admiral was one that he would not consent to

1451
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 1: the baptism of Indians whom the Friars wished to baptize,

1452
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:00,160
Speaker 1: because he wanted more slaves than Christians, that he made

1453
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:02,880
Speaker 1: war against the Indians unjustly and made many slaves to

1454
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,519
Speaker 1: be sent to Castile. And again, one of Delany's big

1455
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 1: defenses is he only enslaves people who are fighting him,

1456
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,680
Speaker 1: and he doesn't he doesn't wonder what he wants to

1457
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 1: christianize people, which means he can't have wanted to enslave

1458
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: them all. And again we have contemporary historians being like, no,

1459
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of people at the time we're like, hey,

1460
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:21,679
Speaker 1: it seems like you're starting wars specifically to justify enslaving people,

1461
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:24,720
Speaker 1: and you're refusing to allow friars to baptize people who

1462
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 1: want to be Christians because you want to enslave them.

1463
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 1: That seems bad Christopher. Um. And the counter argument is no, no, no,

1464
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 1: he was just trying to enslave their mind and soul,

1465
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:40,760
Speaker 1: not what the Catholics here who call him out as

1466
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 1: bad are want. Isn't always all that much better, but

1467
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: relatively speak, yeah yeah um and yeah. There's Catholic missionaries

1468
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: who return home. They send letters back to the cardinal

1469
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 1: who the and the Archbishop of Toledo accusing Columbus and

1470
01:17:56,160 --> 01:18:00,680
Speaker 1: his brothers of actively attempting to like harm efforts of

1471
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 1: the missionaries to convert the natives to Christianity. Um. They

1472
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 1: that one of the things they keep pointing out in

1473
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 1: their complaints to the to the Pope and whatnot is

1474
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 1: that like, hey, like the fact that we're being so

1475
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 1: shitty these people makes them not like Christianity. Um, and

1476
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 1: this is a problem for us as friars figure figure.

1477
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:24,400
Speaker 1: So Columbus's downfall, harsh and humiliating, came within weeks of

1478
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:27,639
Speaker 1: this decree. The sovereigns summarily removed him from his highest

1479
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: state of viceroy and governor of the New World Colonies

1480
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:33,520
Speaker 1: and appointed the Commander Francis D. Bobadilla as a successor.

1481
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 1: And what many historians regard as an excess of zeal

1482
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 1: Bobadilla sent Columbus and his two brothers back to Castile

1483
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:42,559
Speaker 1: in chains. The sovereigns ordered the brothers released and authorized

1484
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 1: a fourth voyage by Columbus, but mandated he never set

1485
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 1: foot in Espaniola again. Now this is that that was

1486
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:52,680
Speaker 1: just a quote from American Heritage Carol de Lady makes

1487
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:54,720
Speaker 1: Boba Dela out to be the bad guy of the

1488
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 1: whole thing, um, which he also sucked. Right, he is

1489
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 1: a brutal Catholic soldier who had helped like repress Uprising

1490
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 1: ship and shipped for the But if you're white washing

1491
01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 1: some ship head, you need a scapegoat, right, Yeah, Like

1492
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:10,640
Speaker 1: it's true that he sucked, so did Columbus. And by

1493
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:14,959
Speaker 1: the way, Columbus deserved a lot worse than chains Um. Obviously,

1494
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:17,160
Speaker 1: the king and Queen, who also get whitewashed a lot

1495
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:20,280
Speaker 1: because of the purported care for the indigenous people, also sucked.

1496
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 1: They sent him on another fucking voyage after this, So like,

1497
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 1: funk those people right, Like, let's not nobody nobody's good here.

1498
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 1: Columbus is just the worst of them, I think for

1499
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 1: all the yeah they commissioned Spider Man turn off the

1500
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:36,200
Speaker 1: Dark two, they were the motherfuckers who were like, yes,

1501
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 1: another one please. So Christopher Columbus died on May fift

1502
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:45,120
Speaker 1: oh six. Despite his many failures and crimes, he maintained

1503
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: many of the benefits promised to him by the Spanish

1504
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:50,639
Speaker 1: crown and passed a considerate amount on to his sons.

1505
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:53,720
Speaker 1: What little justice he experienced was not enough to save

1506
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 1: the r Walk, particularly the Tino, who were completely extinct

1507
01:19:57,240 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 1: by the early fift hundreds. There's still some arrow up

1508
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 1: peoples around, but the Tino or extinct. I think the

1509
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 1: Caribs are as well. Most of the people who had

1510
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 1: existed when he arrived in the area that he arrives

1511
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 1: in are absolutely wiped out in like twenty y ish

1512
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 1: years and it's worth discussing precisely how this happened, because

1513
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 1: this is a part of the story that seldom gets told. Now,

1514
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 1: we don't know how many people were in these islands

1515
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:23,680
Speaker 1: at the time of first contact. Frireless Cosas estimated Espaniola's

1516
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:27,960
Speaker 1: population around three million people. Archaeologists suggest a more realistic

1517
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 1: number might be three hundred thousand um. If that is

1518
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:34,759
Speaker 1: the case, by fifteen o eight, sixteen years after first contact,

1519
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 1: only sixty thousand remained. So if you assume three hundred

1520
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 1: thousand people or so, by sixteen years after first contact,

1521
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 1: sixty thousand or left, that means eighty percent have died

1522
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 1: in the first sixteen years. The plague was like a

1523
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 1: third or a quarter. Yeah, I mean in some places

1524
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:56,439
Speaker 1: it was sev right, like there were some parts of Europe.

1525
01:20:56,479 --> 01:21:00,720
Speaker 1: But we're talking plague numbers. We're talking this apocaly this

1526
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 1: this end of the world shit. Many of these people

1527
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 1: were killed by diseaser of violence, but also a lot

1528
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 1: of them committed what some scholars say was essentially a

1529
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:13,599
Speaker 1: form of race suicide. And to close this out, I'm

1530
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: going to read for you, Michael, one of the most

1531
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 1: harrowing passages I have ever read in my research for

1532
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:20,920
Speaker 1: this show. Um. This is from the book The Other

1533
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:24,799
Speaker 1: Slavery by Andres Ruscindez. Quote. Okay, I'll think of a joke, Robert,

1534
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:28,760
Speaker 1: go ahead, you you you'll be You'll be cooking on that.

1535
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: Thanks for inviting me. This has been wonderful. Demoralized by

1536
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:36,600
Speaker 1: the Spanish tribute system and unnerved by their own prophecies,

1537
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 1: many Indians took steps to escape, and the only way

1538
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 1: left to them. Columbus became aware of the dimensions of

1539
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 1: the tragedy decimating the Indians when quote it was pointed

1540
01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 1: out to him that the natives had been vexed by

1541
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 1: a famine so widespread that more than fifty thousand men

1542
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 1: had died, and every day they fell everywhere like sickened flocks.

1543
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 1: In the word of Peter Martyr, the reality was even

1544
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:59,559
Speaker 1: more terrible than famine. It was self inflicted. The Indians

1545
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 1: destroy avoid their stores of bread so that neither they

1546
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 1: nor the invaders would be able to eat it. They

1547
01:22:04,479 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 1: plunged off cliffs, They poisoned themselves with roots, and they

1548
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 1: starved themselves to death. Oppressed by the impossible requirement to

1549
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 1: deliver tributes of gold, the Indians were no longer able

1550
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:16,960
Speaker 1: to tend their fields or care for their sick children

1551
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 1: and elderly. They had given up and committed mass suicide

1552
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:22,960
Speaker 1: to avoid being killed or captured by Christians, and to

1553
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:26,759
Speaker 1: avoid sharing their land with them, their fields, groves, beaches, forests,

1554
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:29,280
Speaker 1: and women, the future of their people. It was an

1555
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 1: extraordinary act of despair and self destruction, so overwhelming that

1556
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 1: the Spanish could not comprehend it. All of them fifty

1557
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 1: thousand Indians dead by their own hand. The dwindling number

1558
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 1: of survivors found themselves trapped in a survivalistic Indo game.

1559
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 1: Some took refuge in the mountains, where Spanish dogs set

1560
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 1: upon them. Those who avoided the dogs succumbed to starvation

1561
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 1: and illness. Although estimates of the population are in exact,

1562
01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 1: the trendis Plaine. Of the approximately three thousand Indians and

1563
01:22:56,520 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 1: Hispaniola at the time of Columbus's first voyage, in a

1564
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,240
Speaker 1: hundred thousand or so died between fourteen ninety four and

1565
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 1: fourteen ninety six, half of them during the mass suicide.

1566
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 1: Las Casas estimated that the Indian population fourteen ninety six

1567
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 1: was only one third of what had been in fourteen

1568
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 1: ninety four, What a splendid harvest, and how quickly they

1569
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:19,120
Speaker 1: reaped it, he wrote acidly. Twelve years later, in fifteen

1570
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 1: o eight, A Cinsus counted sixty thousand Indians, or one

1571
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 1: fifth of the original population, and by fifteen forty eight

1572
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:29,920
Speaker 1: Fernandez de Oviedo found only five hundred Indians, the survivors

1573
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 1: of the hundreds of thousands who had populated the islands

1574
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:34,600
Speaker 1: when Columbus arrived, and who had seen him as the

1575
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:37,800
Speaker 1: fulfillment of a longstanding prophecy. It was only now that

1576
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 1: the meaning of that prophecy became clear. His presence meant

1577
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 1: their extinction. Wow, So that's pretty bad. It's sick that

1578
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:48,760
Speaker 1: they It started with the word decimated, and I think

1579
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 1: that means one tenth are killed. Yeah, Like, imagine being

1580
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:56,679
Speaker 1: decimated over and over and over and over every year left, Yeah,

1581
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 1: out of three hundred thousand and how a huge chunk

1582
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 1: of the death was people making a conscious choice to

1583
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 1: kill themselves so that they wouldn't have to live with

1584
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:08,880
Speaker 1: these which I think speaks to how rapid the changes were.

1585
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 1: Because any student of history will tell you you can

1586
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 1: actually get a population to suffer mightily over a long

1587
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 1: period of time. And not kill themselves if you do

1588
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 1: it slowly. So that means these changes were so rapid

1589
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:24,639
Speaker 1: that the whole generation of people were like, I cannot

1590
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 1: even grapple with let's just that's that, um, which is yeah,

1591
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:34,240
Speaker 1: just very telling. I don't think there's even an inclement

1592
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:37,640
Speaker 1: periods of history where ship is really really upsetting. You

1593
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:40,519
Speaker 1: don't usually get fifty people checking out at once as

1594
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:43,400
Speaker 1: a conscious decision. And you know, we're almost an act

1595
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:46,800
Speaker 1: of rebellion. This is this is an act of them

1596
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 1: taking agency. And you know, we cannot fight these people, right.

1597
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:52,200
Speaker 1: We are are too weak and they are too strong

1598
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:57,559
Speaker 1: for us to combat them militarily. But we recognize their

1599
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 1: religion and their beliefs them as sick and wrong and

1600
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,000
Speaker 1: we will not live under it. And so we're going

1601
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 1: to do the only thing that we can do. Um.

1602
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:10,200
Speaker 1: And you know this is not the only time things

1603
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:12,160
Speaker 1: like that will happen. You know, you have cases of

1604
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:15,000
Speaker 1: like slaveships mutinying in ways that like will kill them all,

1605
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:16,800
Speaker 1: and they're like, but this is better than living with

1606
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 1: these people. UM. Yeah, it's That's the story of Chris

1607
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 1: Columbus uh, director of the Home Alone movies. They were

1608
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:31,160
Speaker 1: the United of Islands. Really yeah, they were like, these

1609
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:34,400
Speaker 1: terrorists have taken control. We're just going to crash this ship. Yeah,

1610
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: this is the only thing we can think of to do.

1611
01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:42,560
Speaker 1: Um sapped funny out of unspeakably bleak. One of the

1612
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 1: worst stories I have ever encountered in my life. How

1613
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 1: could that be? It's the story of America? Yeah, yeah, yeah, um,

1614
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 1: it is the story of America. Well, Michael, Robert mchaale

1615
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:02,559
Speaker 1: W wrote, you got autar I don't know what they

1616
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,320
Speaker 1: call you in Russia. You got any pluggables to plug?

1617
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: You want to art, Robert, push your business here. I

1618
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:12,439
Speaker 1: guess if if I can stammer a little bit and

1619
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:16,120
Speaker 1: blank people's minds and separate the taste in their mouth

1620
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:18,360
Speaker 1: that they have now with the thing that I'm about

1621
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 1: to say. But yeah, if you want to hear me

1622
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 1: podcast about stuff I was gonna say, ranging from less

1623
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:27,599
Speaker 1: to more bleak, but no, all less bleak than this Uh,

1624
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:31,760
Speaker 1: including depression, addiction and drama, but still all less bleak

1625
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 1: than this ship. Uh. Look us up over at small Beans.

1626
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:37,640
Speaker 1: You can find it, you know, wherever you get podcasts

1627
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:40,360
Speaker 1: or a Patreon dot com slash. Small Beans if you're

1628
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:42,519
Speaker 1: into video games. Check out my other podcasts on the

1629
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 1: I Heart Network One Upsmanship. I guess Columbus was kind

1630
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 1: of the original one ups man ship, right, Yeah, I

1631
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:55,000
Speaker 1: think that's ultimately what I learned. Yeah, that is that

1632
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:58,880
Speaker 1: is the lesson he was shipping men. He was shipping men.

1633
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:01,680
Speaker 1: And to add in old to injury, the fact that

1634
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:04,120
Speaker 1: I'm sorry you mentioned this tiny detail, but it's rankled

1635
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:07,919
Speaker 1: me the whole time. They made them carry them in hammocks.

1636
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:13,080
Speaker 1: They invented hammocks, you dirty pizza. Worse right, gave you

1637
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 1: hammock technology. You motherfucker couldn't figure it out on your own,

1638
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:20,320
Speaker 1: and then stole it, made us carry you you sides.

1639
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think the only thing I can say

1640
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 1: at the end of this harrowing series learning about Columbus is,

1641
01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:32,759
Speaker 1: folks at home, if you wanna stick it to Christopher

1642
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 1: Columbus and the people like him, go firebomb a pizza restaurant.

1643
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter which one. Stick it to the Italians. That's

1644
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:43,879
Speaker 1: the only way. Take out. Find the local pizza restaurant,

1645
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:49,200
Speaker 1: buck them up. That'll teach him. I legally endorsed this

1646
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:52,320
Speaker 1: statement as well. Good Good. I wanted a little bit

1647
01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 1: of extra cover on that one, all right, everybody. That's

1648
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: our legally binding advice to you is destroy all pizza

1649
01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:03,519
Speaker 1: restaurants in vengeance for Columbus's crimes. Hey, do the right thing.

1650
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: Do the right thing. Behind the Bastards is a production

1651
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media,

1652
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:15,040
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

1653
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:17,599
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1654
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.