1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: LinkedIn News. 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 2: After larger events, whether it even be like hanging out 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 2: with friends or a networking event whatever, I'm a big 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: time spiraler, like I will sit there and ruminate on 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: you know, what did I say? What did I not say? 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: You know? 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 2: Was I too casual? I feel like sometimes because the 8 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: lines between like personal professional life can be blurry. I 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: speak very candidly sometimes, especially you know, in a professional setting, 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: and I'm like, oof, is that too mud? Yeah? 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: But if you're always overthinking it, that's exhausting. 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 2: Oh, I live rent free in my hedge e men, it's. 13 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: Exacting saying something you know I wish. 14 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: From LinkedIn News and i Heeart podcasts, this is Let's 15 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: Talk Offline, a show about what it takes to thrive 16 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 2: in their early years of your career without sacrificing your values, 17 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: sanity or sleep. 18 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm Janna Prdente and I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadson to me 19 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: at your career, guys, listen, you're gonna have to put 20 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: yourself out there and build connections. Do we have to? 21 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 3: Yes? 22 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: But I also understand that that can fire up a 23 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: lot of feelings of social anxiety. I mean, you're stepping 24 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: outside your comfort zone. You're entering unfamiliar social situations and 25 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: you're probably meeting a whole bunch of new people. You're 26 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: making a lot of small talk, which is gross, and 27 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: you're hoping that you don't say something super awkward or 28 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: even cringe. 29 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: Oh yes, I can so relate to this. I seriously 30 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 2: need more than two hands and maybe even two feet 31 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: to count how many times I've backed out of social 32 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 2: situations like a networking event because I was too anxious, 33 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: Like I got that pit in my stomach and I 34 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 2: was like, nope, that's it. 35 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: Even day to. 36 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: Day, I experience social anxiety, like when I'm at the office. 37 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: And now, if you can relate, don't worry. 38 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: I see you, I feel you. 39 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: We're gonna be talking about ways you can manage those 40 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: anxious feelings, both in and out of the workplace. 41 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: On today's episode, so Gianna personal question Oka. On a 42 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: scale of one to ten, how often do you experience 43 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: social anxiety? God? How often? Yeah? 44 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 2: I'm probably like at a six or a seven. 45 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: Oh God, cortisol levels right now, they are my blood 46 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: work and they came that high. Well, look, you know, honestly, 47 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: you are in good company. A lot of people have 48 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: anxious moments. I mean, and it really doesn't matter if 49 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: you're an introvert or extrovert. It's just a human feeling. 50 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: And I think particularly based upon where you live, your demographics, 51 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: your jobs, those all can add into it. And so really, 52 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: when it comes to your career, you're going to be 53 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: in a lot of social situations where you might feel 54 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: socially anxious. And I mean, we're gonna be talking about 55 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: that today, which I'm super excited about. But before we do, Gion, 56 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: I think it's super important for us to sort of 57 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: set the level playing field here. I just want to 58 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: give a quick disclaimer to y'all. The Geanna and I 59 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: we might be able to self diagnose ourselves when we 60 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: see things online. We might look at WebMD every once 61 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: in a while, I feel like I'm dying, but I 62 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: want to remind you all we are not mental health 63 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 1: professionals of any kind. Okay. We are literally just two 64 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: anxious girlies trying our best, struggling and who are having 65 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: hard conversations. Okay, So I just want to make sure 66 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: we are aware of that, because you know, we're gonna 67 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: be talking a lot today about our own mental health, 68 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: our own social anxious anxiety struggles, and we're going to 69 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: be giving tips to help you all, but I also 70 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: want to say, if you need help, that is totally fine, 71 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: certainly speak to a mental health professional. Later in the show, 72 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: we're actually going to be talking to clinical psychologists doctor 73 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: Follen Goodman about how to manage those feelings of social anxiety. 74 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: So honestly I look forward to that. But before then, gee, 75 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: you've actually reported on an anxiety among gen Zers. What 76 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: is that all about? 77 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: I have so when I started coming back to the office, 78 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: my social anxiety was peaking, especially after the pandemic. I 79 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: feel like a lot of us forgot how to socialize 80 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: when we were in isolation. You know, I wrote an 81 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: article last year on this topic because I had seen 82 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: a stat that said nine to ten gen Zers experienced 83 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: social anxiety, which I thought was insane. That's a staggering 84 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: stat And at the time, reporting on it felt really 85 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: timely and still does because of all these return to 86 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 2: office mandates, and over the last two years, gen Z 87 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 2: has been entering the office for the first time ever, 88 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: and when that happens, many of us feel like we 89 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 2: need to relearn to socialize. And I know, I certainly 90 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 2: felt that way, so I have reported on it before, 91 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 2: largely because of my own personal struggles with social anxiety. 92 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: I've always been a socially anxious, girally Like in high school, 93 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: I was a homebody. I didn't really like, you know, 94 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 2: go to events or like hang out with people in 95 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 2: big social groups because it just gave me a lot 96 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: of anxiety. And I also wasn't like actually diagnosed with 97 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: general anxiety until after high school. So at the time 98 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: I was just like, yeah, I'm I don't know what's 99 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 2: going on, but I don't something right, but I don't 100 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: know what, but yeah, I still get a lot of anxiety, 101 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 2: you know, in social you know, everyday interactions, especially when 102 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: it comes to events that are in more of a 103 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 2: professional context like a networking event and and starting my career. 104 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: You know, I would try to push myself to go 105 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 2: to different you know, networking events, and so many times 106 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: I would talk myself out of going because I was like, 107 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: I'm just too anxious to go by myself. 108 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 4: You know. 109 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: At some point I would have like that crutch friend 110 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 2: that I needed to go with, which I feel like 111 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: people can probably relate to. 112 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: Shout out to that friend. Shout out to because you 113 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: know your job and you are a good hype and wingman. 114 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:37,679 Speaker 1: Thank you for your service. 115 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: When like the invite comes around, they're like, oh work 116 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: happy hour and you're like, well, are you going? Okay, 117 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: then I'll go right It's like that, Yeah, but I've 118 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 2: gotten a lot better, I think just because of exposure. 119 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: Like I pushed myself to go to events, and the 120 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 2: way I kind of approach it now is I get 121 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 2: there early, so I'm not walking into a large group 122 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 2: and that's helped me. Okay, So that's kind of my 123 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: like hack for it is just like don't yourself to 124 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 2: large situations right off the bat, like ease in, get 125 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: there early. I also like being late just stresses me 126 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: out in general, like I'm chronically on time. If you 127 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: can relate, let me know. But now, something I experienced 128 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 2: when it comes to social anxiety, which I think is 129 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 2: a consequence of it, is like after larger events, whether 130 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 2: it even be like hanging out with friends or a 131 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 2: networking event whatever, I'm a big time spiraler, Like I 132 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: will sit there and ruminate on you know, what did 133 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: I say? 134 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 4: What did I not say? 135 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: You know? Was I too casual? 136 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes because the lines between like personal 137 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: professional life. 138 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: Can be blurry. 139 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: I speak very candidly sometimes, especially you know, in a 140 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 2: professional setting, and I'm like, oof, is that too mut Yeah. 141 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: But if you're always overthinking it, that's exhausting. 142 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 2: Oh I live rent free in my headg E men, no, 143 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 2: I wish okay, But what about you? Is social anxiety 144 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 2: something you experience at work? 145 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I've experienced social anxiety my entire life, 146 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: and honestly, especially when I was younger, I didn't even 147 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: know what that was. That wasn't even a word, right, 148 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: because I was the kid who is always in plays 149 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: and shows and performing piano and stuff, and so naturally 150 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: my family thought, oh, she likes to talk with people, 151 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: she's very extrovert, if she's very outgoing, that kind of 152 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: spiraled in itself, and even in my career, I think 153 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that 154 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,559 Speaker 1: that is who I am all the time, because again, 155 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: they're seeing me on camera or they're hearing me in 156 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: their headphones. And the truth of the matter is, in 157 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: my career I found that like, I'm so on for 158 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: the actual performance. I say like in quotation marks, because 159 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: anything to me feels performative, whether it's hosting a workshop 160 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: at LinkedIn or doing this podcast. But immediately right after, 161 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: I'm ready to go back in my show, go back 162 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: into my world, and sort of like pour back into 163 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: myself after I've expounded all the energy. A lot of 164 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: people don't understand how exhausting it is to be on 165 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: and so my social anxiety, I think often comes from 166 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: like that after event or yeah, the crash, but then 167 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: like you're still in the presence of other people, you know, 168 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: So like, for instance, I've had panels before where or 169 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: I've gone to schools or universities and I've been on 170 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: a panel and I've talked, and like we've just done 171 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: like a forty five minute hour talk. I'm feeling good, 172 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: I'm feeling hype. Then it ends and the first thing 173 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: everyone does is run to the stage because they want 174 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: to meet the speakers. Now I feel like a jerk 175 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: if I'm like, no, I'm gonna, you know, go drink 176 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: my tea and go listen to my meditation music because 177 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: I feel like you have made the offer to come 178 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: to see me. I want to stand here and I'm 179 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: gonna do it, and I always do. I am always 180 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: in there until the last person leaves the room, because 181 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: I want to make sure you have the opportunity to talk. 182 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,599 Speaker 1: But I also realize that I put myself in situations 183 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: where now I'm like, oh god, a lot of people 184 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: they just are opening up their mouth and they just 185 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: start chatting away. They want me to solve their life problems, 186 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: give them money, like they're like, please fix my life, 187 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: and you're like phone sharking, Oh my gosh, predatory, Oh 188 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: my god. But it's just like, yeah, like the small 189 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: talk aspect of networking and being in rooms is so 190 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: exhaustive for me, and I never know what to say. 191 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: So I would just say, like, that is really sort 192 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: of where my social anxiety peaks. It's not in the 193 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: actual performance. I can get into a room and feel 194 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: okay after you know, I've kind of warmed myself up, 195 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: but it's sort of the everything that comes afterward and 196 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: the expectation I feel of other people on me that 197 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: really kind of feels sometimes the anxiety in it all. 198 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely relate to that also, because people then 199 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: expect something of you because of who you are on stage, right, 200 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: and then they expect you to show up that way, 201 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: you know, off stage but the reality is, like, you know, 202 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: you have social anxiety. I have social anxiety. Looking at 203 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: as you might not see that. You know, we're very 204 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 2: present in our spaces, but you know, you might not 205 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 2: see it outwardly, if that's that a word out. Yeah, 206 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 2: but it is something a lot of people do experience internally. 207 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: And yeah, small talk is just. 208 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: It's just so uncomfortable because I feel like you don't 209 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: know like what you're hoping to gain from it, and 210 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 2: I feel like there's so many times I've been in 211 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 2: situations where I'm making small talk and I say something 212 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 2: a little cringe or I do something weird, and I 213 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 2: will beat myself up after it. I'm like, oh my god, 214 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 2: Like I will cringe just thinking about that interaction. 215 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: I get it, It's it is cringey. And it also 216 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: sometimes feel so like, what is it superficial? It's just 217 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: like you're just like talking just to say that you've 218 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: said something like why are you asking my favorite color? 219 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: Are we five? Like you know if we're gonna get 220 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: cause I'm definitely the one like if let's unpack some 221 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: generational trauma, okay, like let's sit down and really talk. 222 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: But yeah, social anxiety can look like many things. It 223 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: can feel like many different things for different people, which 224 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: is why it's so easy to want to diagnose yourself. 225 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: But again, talk to mental health professional. But thankfully, you know, 226 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: Giann and I are going to be talking to someone 227 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: very very soon who can hopefully help. Wait, what's your 228 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: favorite color? Always read? 229 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: If you're also in the social anxiety club, it's not 230 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: about fully overcoming those anxious feelings, it's really about figuring 231 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: out how to better manage them. And up next we're 232 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 2: talking with clinical psychologist doctor Follon Gooman on tips for 233 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 2: doing just that. 234 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: So, Giana, we have been talking all about social anxiety 235 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: and honestly, I'm not even going hold with a girl. 236 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: Talking about it makes me a little anxious, all right. 237 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: I know so many people are probably dealing with this 238 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: at home or try to ask themselves like what social 239 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: anxiety even is and how they can hopefully utilize their 240 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: power against it in the workforce. But we couldn't just 241 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: do this you and I. We needed to bring in 242 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: an expert of many, many talents. Who do we have 243 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: this week? 244 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: You already know I have a million questions, So I 245 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 2: am so excited to bring on doctor Fallon Goodman. She's 246 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: a clinical psychologist and professor at George Washington University. She's 247 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: the director of the Emotion and Resilience Laboratory, which examines 248 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 2: how people can overcome social anxiety and build lasting relationships 249 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 2: and resilience to adversity. Doctor Goodman, thank you so much 250 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 2: for joining us. 251 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me. 252 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 2: We're so excited for this. 253 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 1: Okay, doctor Goodman, So I want to start the conversation 254 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: by first asking how do you define social anxiety? 255 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 4: Social anxiety can be boiled down to a really simple feeling. 256 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 4: When you're in a social setting, or when you're thinking 257 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 4: about a social setting, you are worried about being rejected. 258 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 4: You're worried that people are going to evaluate you poorly, 259 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 4: They're going to judge you or criticize you, and ultimately 260 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 4: those judgments will lead to rejection. 261 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: I love that, and I think if you're thinking about 262 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: it from that lens, social anxiety can happen in any place. 263 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: Like I'm even thinking about like when I got married, 264 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 1: like that was anxious, Like I was anxious about that. 265 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think he was going to reject me. 266 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: He would have walked away from the hell. You never know. 267 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: You never know. 268 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: You never know that would have been the origin of 269 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: my villain story. But I love that you talk about 270 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: how social anxiety can cohapitate like in different spaces, and 271 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: it's not just like a one thing or one size 272 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: fits all for people. 273 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 4: I think this is something important to clarify upfront. So 274 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 4: social anxiety is not introversion. People that are introverted might 275 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 4: prefer smaller social settings one on one on a Friday night. 276 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 4: They might want to hang out at home rather than 277 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 4: going out. Introversion is about a preference for how you socialize. 278 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 4: Social anxiety is about fear related to socializing. And so, 279 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 4: like you're saying, it could pop up and Eddie Senny. 280 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 4: It could be on your wedding day with and about 281 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 4: your partner, or it could be getting on the metro 282 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 4: or the train and talking to a stranger. It could 283 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 4: be giving a talk to a big audience, or just 284 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 4: speaking up at a meeting at work. Social anxiety bubbles 285 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 4: up in all of these different settings, and one of 286 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 4: the reasons it often goes undetected is that it's easy 287 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 4: to miss. Because people are feeling socially anxious, they might 288 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 4: not be showing it, and it can happen in really 289 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 4: any social setting. 290 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 2: You mentioned these different scenarios where social anxiety kind of 291 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 2: bubbles up. And we know that advancing your career requires 292 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: building relationships, but when you feel socially anxious, it can 293 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: really stop you from making that first step. I know 294 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 2: I've talked myself out of going to networking events so 295 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: many times just because I felt so uncomfortable. And I 296 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: hear from a lot of gen zers who are starting 297 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: to network that they're nervous because they're like, why am 298 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: I going to reach out to this person when I 299 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 2: have nothing to offer? Or why am I going to 300 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 2: go to this event where I might be the youngest 301 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: person in the room. So I'm wondering, when it comes 302 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 2: to networking specifically, how can we ease our social anxiety, 303 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 2: whether it's online or in person. 304 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 4: I think most networking events are setting people up to fail. 305 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: I agree. So let's think about it. 306 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 4: Let's go to a networking event and your job is 307 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 4: to build a relationship to a as your career, like, 308 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 4: no pressure, but make sure you're confident, make sure you're 309 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 4: competent and likable. If you instead reframe it as this 310 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 4: is a relationship building event, I want to meet new people, 311 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 4: and build relationships with those people. That's ultimately what gets 312 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 4: you the benefits of networking anyway. So when you approach 313 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 4: the event as this thing where you're trying to achieve something, which, 314 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 4: by the way, feels self serving because it is, well, 315 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 4: then that's going to lead to all of the doubts 316 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 4: of am I good enough? And what do I have 317 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 4: to offer and who wants to help me? As opposed 318 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 4: to I want to meet people in my industry with 319 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 4: whom I could develop a symbiotic relationship where we can 320 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 4: help each other in a way that feels authentic, not 321 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 4: in a way that feels gay me. 322 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 2: I love that reframe. I'm wondering, is there anything you 323 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 2: recommend like before the event? I feel like when it 324 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 2: comes to networking events, not that we're trying to cancel them, 325 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: but we'll cancel them, but I think a lot of 326 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 2: times like we go in and there's no structure. We 327 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 2: don't know like what role we're supposed to be playing there. 328 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: We just show up and it's just a free for all, 329 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 2: and it feels super uncomfortable because we don't know what 330 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 2: to anticipate. So is there anything like before the event 331 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: that we should be doing to kind of ease those 332 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 2: nerves aside from the mindset shift. 333 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 4: So let's sit on two things. One is the lack 334 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 4: of structure. For someone who's struggling with social anxiety. The 335 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 4: lack of structure is often the source of anxiety. So, like, 336 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 4: you go to a networking event. Do you drink? If 337 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 4: you do, do you hold your drink? And then how 338 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 4: do you get food? With one hand? Your is your phone? 339 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 4: Do you have a purse? I could see sweating? How 340 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 4: do you shake someone's hand? Now you have a drink 341 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 4: in one hand and then you have a plate in 342 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 4: the other. Like, all of these little tiny things can 343 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 4: accumulate to really increase someone's social anxiety. And by the 344 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 4: time the event is thirty minutes in, they're ruminating about 345 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 4: all the things that just happen. And also the social 346 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 4: rules are unclear to networking event. Yes, so I go 347 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 4: up to someone and say hello, Like, do I look 348 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 4: down at your name tag and make sure I'm not 349 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 4: like checking you out? But I want to know who 350 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 4: you are? And should I know who you are? Because 351 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 4: you're soone important? Like all these little mys. So the 352 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 4: lack of structure in and of itself is scary, So 353 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 4: let's just put that aside and recognize that that's one 354 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 4: of the things that makes it really anxiety provoking in 355 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 4: terms of what to do before. It would be the 356 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 4: same thing for any social interaction, which is define your goal, 357 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 4: and this goal should be something that is achievable, not 358 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 4: how you feel. So the goal. If your goal is 359 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 4: I want to go in and feel less anxious, well 360 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 4: good luck, because it's not going to happen. Instead, it 361 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 4: might be I want to introduce myself to three people, 362 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 4: or I want to get one person's email, something that 363 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 4: is tangible, something that is achievable. So when the event 364 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 4: is over, you can reflect back and say did I 365 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 4: achieve my goal? Yars or no. And this is really 366 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 4: the approach to treating social anxiety, because you want the 367 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 4: person to focus on doing things that are important to them, 368 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 4: regardless of how anxious it makes them feel. And then 369 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 4: the more you do that, the more you go and 370 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 4: the more you achieve your goals, and over time your 371 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 4: anxiety will eventually start to subside. 372 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: I love that. Another thing you mentioned earlier that I 373 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: think was really important to distinguish is that social anxiety 374 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: is not equal to introverts or extroverts. And I love 375 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: that you mentioned that because I am someone who a 376 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: lot of people would say is very extrovertive. But I 377 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: feel like I suffer a lot with social anxiety. Put 378 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: me in like a small intimate room, I start like mumbling, 379 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: and I my words can't get because I'm like thinking overthinking, 380 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: like like what's happening right now? Oh my god? Okay, 381 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: So small talk can be really difficult, and for a 382 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: lot of people, myself included, you start getting in your 383 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: head a lot about like is this person like interested 384 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: in what I'm saying? You know, am I doing the 385 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: right things? Et cetera. So how can we remove the 386 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: anxiety out of small talk? Like, what would be your 387 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: advice on how we can make small talk a little 388 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: easier and a little less cringe? 389 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 4: Well, small talk is cringe, okay. Small talk usually serves 390 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 4: no purpose other than to grease the wheels of an 391 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 4: interaction that you might have. So I think step one 392 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 4: is acknowledging that small talk is probably going to be 393 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 4: awkward and cringe, regardless of the setting. And the second 394 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 4: thing is taking some of the pressure off yourself for 395 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 4: that conversation too advance, so it might not go anywhere. 396 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 4: And if you're thinking every single thing that you say 397 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 4: could make or break a relationship, that's putting way too 398 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 4: much pressure on yourself, and that that increased pressure is 399 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 4: going to decrease the likelihood that the conversation goes anywhere, 400 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 4: because as you put pressure on yourself to have a 401 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 4: really good conversation, your performance will go down. 402 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: I love that. 403 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 2: I want to bring up a listener question next. This 404 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 2: is our segment Dear work Bestie, where we answer your questions. 405 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 2: This week's comes from Mariah in Arizona. 406 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 3: How can we in the confidence to speak up during meetings, 407 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 3: especially if the meeting is filled with older or more 408 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 3: experienced colleagues. One of the things that I find myself 409 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 3: struggling with is almostly just feeling like a little bit 410 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 3: anxious and feeling like my thoughts or opinions or even 411 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 3: questions might come off as silly or maybe don't entirely 412 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 3: know what all is going on. So would love to 413 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 3: know how to overcome that, and I guess how to 414 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 3: feel more confident in my ability and my decisions and 415 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 3: my questions. 416 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 4: It's a great question, and it's an important one as 417 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 4: people start to enter the workforce. Step one is read 418 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 4: the room. If your voice is not welcomed by the group, 419 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 4: then you want to stop there. Now that's an issue 420 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 4: potentially with the workplace or the culture or the group. 421 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 4: But you don't want to go in saying, well, I 422 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 4: want my opinion heard. I want to feel more confident, 423 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 4: and then make your voice heard when it's not welcomed, 424 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 4: because regardless of your approach, it will never be well received. 425 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 4: If after you read the room and you have the 426 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 4: understanding of the group, you know or you have a 427 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 4: good sense that your voice might be welcomed, that's where 428 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,719 Speaker 4: you need to do some risk taking. To speak up 429 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 4: for the first time in a new group is really scary, 430 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 4: and most people are going to have some sort of 431 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 4: self doubt and some of the things that Mariah mentioned 432 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 4: of the self doubt about confidence and competence and am 433 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 4: I good enough? And I'm too young? Remember that age 434 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 4: does not necessarily equate with competence. Age might be correlated 435 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 4: with experience, but regardless, your ideas should be valued just 436 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 4: as much as anyone else's ideas. So in my lab 437 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 4: we have people of all education levels and ages, and 438 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 4: our mindset in our mantra is everyone's opinion is equally 439 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 4: valued regardless of educational status or experience, because sometimes your 440 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 4: naivety is a strength. You come in as the young gun, 441 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 4: and you get to offer an opinion that is fresh, 442 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 4: that is novel that people that have been there for 443 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 4: years might not see. And so it's all about reframing 444 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 4: how you're viewing your own voice. 445 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so important. One thing that I often reflect 446 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: on is that, like, your superpower is you being you. 447 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: You are in that room for a reason. But I 448 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: want to sort of also highlight though that while we're 449 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: having this conversation around anxiety, there's also like another layer 450 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 1: in this, particularly for communities of color or people from 451 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: marginalized groups. I know that throughout my career I have 452 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: often felt anxious in certain leadership rooms because you're afraid 453 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: of what you're going to say, what you're not going 454 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: to say, what's going to be weaponized against you, how 455 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: that's going to impact you. So what advice would you give, 456 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: maybe to those who do come from marginalized groups, on 457 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: how they can build a confidence to bring their most 458 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: authentic selves to the table. 459 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 4: This is a really important question. So let's first jump 460 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 4: to treating social anxiety. When we treat social anxiety, one 461 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 4: of the things we focus on is people's thoughts, and specifically, 462 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 4: are you overestimating the chances that you will be rejected? 463 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 4: And if so, let's work on what we call these 464 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 4: cognitive distortions, or this belief that regardless of what you 465 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 4: doer say, you'll probably be rejected. If we can textualize this. 466 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 4: For a person with one or more marginalized identities, those thoughts, 467 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 4: those overestimations might not be overestimations because they have prior 468 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 4: experiences where they were more likely to be rejected than 469 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 4: other people, and worse, rejected as a function of who 470 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 4: they are are, not necessarily what they did or said, 471 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 4: but rejected because of some one or more identities that 472 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 4: they carry. So that's first and foremost. When you are 473 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 4: the individual or of one or more marginalized identities and 474 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 4: you're entering a situation, have that in mind that these 475 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 4: thoughts and worries you're having might not be your insecurity. 476 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 4: It might be based on prior experiences that you have. 477 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 4: Then the difficult thing to do with that is say, well, 478 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 4: regardless of what I do or say, I still might 479 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 4: be rejected, and I might be rejected of something about 480 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 4: me that I cannot change and something I might be 481 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 4: really proud of, or something that's visible or not visible. 482 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 4: But regardless of how I act, I might still be rejected. 483 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 4: And then there becomes a values based decision. Is it 484 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 4: important to me in this setting to have my voice heard? 485 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 4: And if so, am I willing to take the risk 486 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 4: of potential rejection or retaliation because this thing speaking my 487 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 4: mind or working on this project is important to me. 488 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 4: And that's a difficult conversations to have because the consequences 489 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 4: of doing that might be so much so that even 490 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 4: though it's important to you, you don't want to risk 491 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 4: the consequences so like it getting fired, for instance, or 492 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 4: not being given an opportunity. 493 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, doctor Giman, and I appreciate you 494 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: saying that, because at the end of the day, we 495 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: all deserve to have our voices heard, we all deserve 496 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: to be respected. But also there is a point where 497 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: you have to evaluate if those things are not being met, 498 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: does that company deserve you? Because I'm gonna tell you 499 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: they don't. Baby, you need to go home. Bye, peace out. 500 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: You know, we've been talking a lot about experiencing social 501 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 2: anxiety in and out of work, and we heard from 502 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 2: Mariah who's struggling to speak up in meetings. And I think, 503 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 2: you know, sometimes social anxiety, like I was saying before, 504 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 2: it can prevent you from you've been going to events, 505 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 2: whether it be like a work happy hour or a 506 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: networking event. Let's say you are so socially anxious that 507 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: going to that work event after five o'clock is just 508 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 2: it's just not going to happen for you. And you 509 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 2: feel like, Okay, well, now I'm missing valuable opportunities to 510 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 2: speak to important people on the team. And now while 511 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 2: I get ahead of my career right Like, all these 512 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 2: thoughts come to mind. 513 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: So is exposure. 514 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 2: Therapy important when it comes to putting yourself out there? 515 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: Or I mean I feel like they answered Pella, Yes, 516 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: literally sweating just thinking about it. 517 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 4: Okay, yes, you were missing out on opportunities, so let's 518 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 4: not lie to ourselves. Exposure is one of the most 519 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 4: effective ways to treat any form of anxiety, including social anxiety. 520 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 4: But here's the catch. I know everyone has phobia's I have. 521 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 4: I don't like heights. I climbed Mount Food. Let me 522 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 4: tell you a story. I climbed Mount Fuji. Wow, And 523 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 4: we're a third of the way up. It was a 524 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 4: beautiful day and it starts to get cloudy. My friend, 525 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 4: who I was climbing the mountain with, I said, oh, 526 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 4: what a shame. The weather really turned and he said, Oh, 527 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 4: that's because we're in the clouds. I said, we're what 528 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 4: we're in We're in the clouds. It's like, yeah, we're 529 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 4: in the clouds. That's how high we are. I had 530 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 4: the second panic attack of my life on the side 531 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 4: of an active volcano, and in that moment, I'm like, 532 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 4: I really don't like heights. So here's what I did. 533 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 4: I did an exposure, but I did it all wrong. 534 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 4: For the rest of the six hour climb, I held 535 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 4: on to my friend like this and looked down and 536 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 4: would occasionally peek up and look right back down. I'm 537 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 4: doing my exposure without exposing myself to the thing that 538 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 4: scares me. So what happened when I got off that 539 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 4: mountain and then I a few weeks later was up 540 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 4: on some sort of high building. I freaked out. My 541 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 4: heights anxiety went from an anxiety to a full blown 542 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 4: phobia after I did an exposure. Because if you expose 543 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 4: yourself in a way that's avoiding the thing you're exposing 544 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 4: yourself too. It's only gonna make it worse. It's when 545 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 4: you what we call white knuckling. You're squeezing, squeezing, squeezing, 546 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 4: and then you only become less anxious when you leave 547 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 4: that situation, as opposed to I'm climbing up a mountain 548 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 4: and I'm anxious, and I'm going to lean into my anxiety. 549 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 4: I'm going to look out onto the horizon, i going 550 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 4: to look down the mountain. I'm going to unhook for 551 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 4: my friend, not hold on to things or people, so 552 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 4: I can really fully immerse myself in the exposure. If 553 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 4: we translate this to social anxiety, if you go to 554 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 4: that networking event after work, you don't talk to a 555 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 4: single person and you're on your phone, or you're engaging 556 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 4: in a behavior that makes you feel safe, like grasping 557 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 4: onto a drink so you don't shake someone's hand, you 558 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 4: were just reinforcing your anxiety because you just taught yourself 559 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 4: that the only way to get through that event is 560 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 4: to have some sort of safety behavior. And then the 561 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 4: only way your anxiety is going to go down is 562 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 4: if you leave. And so when you leave that event, 563 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 4: you go from like an eight out of ten anxiety 564 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 4: to a zero out of ten. Oh, I'm glad that's over, 565 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 4: as opposed to staying in the situation long enough and 566 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 4: with the mindset of I'm going to stay in here 567 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 4: and eventually my anxiety will go down as I fully 568 00:27:58,960 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 4: engage in the situation. 569 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 2: That is so validating because I feel like when I 570 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 2: started going to networking events, I always needed my support friend, 571 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 2: like I would not go by myself and that's the 572 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 2: only way I would survive it. And then eventually, through 573 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: that exposure, I was like, Okay, this obviously isn't healthy 574 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 2: to have a crutch person. She's not going to be 575 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 2: around all the time. And it wasn't until the one 576 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 2: time she couldn't make it that I did want to 577 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 2: go to this event because I knew be important that 578 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 2: I went by myself, and I was fine, Like I 579 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 2: live to tell the tale. 580 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 4: So this is a good example, though, because that's okay 581 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 4: if that's where you're starting, but not where you're ending. 582 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 4: So if going with your friend is going to be 583 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 4: the thing that gets you in the door, then do it, 584 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 4: but it should be done with the approach of my 585 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 4: friend might not always be here, and so how could 586 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 4: I move to the next level of going to the 587 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 4: event without my friend? 588 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 3: Right? 589 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate that too, because, like Gianna mentioned, the 590 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: world did not end. You know, I got to eat 591 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: some delicious food, maybe get a couple of drinks. Also, 592 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: maybe get to connect with one or two people. And 593 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: I think like, that's a muscle that once you keep, 594 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, utilizing, it becomes stronger and you feel more comfi. 595 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: But let me ask you, because a couple of years ago, 596 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen to be exact, you Girlly started to get 597 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: on the medication and she started talking to a therapist 598 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: consistently and life changed for the better. So I am 599 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: all about therapy. I am all about seeing a medical professional. 600 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about ways people can figure out 601 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: how to maybe be less anxious or how to create 602 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: a game plan. But at what point is it no 603 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: longer Okay, I have it in my hands, you need 604 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: to give it over to a medical professional and seek help. Listen. 605 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 4: I gave birth six weeks ago and in the hospital, 606 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 4: my Obi came up to me and said, I made 607 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 4: you a therapy appointment because she knew knowing me for 608 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 4: years and what I went through with the birth that 609 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 4: I was going to need it. So there's need, but 610 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 4: there's also at any point you're suffering and you have 611 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 4: access and can afford a therapist, is a good time 612 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 4: to get a therapist. People think that I must have 613 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 4: a horrible experience or something traumatic, or I must be 614 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 4: at rock bottom, and then I'll seek therapy because I 615 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 4: need help. Now, Why wait until things are that bad 616 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 4: when any single human can benefit from therapy. Therapy is 617 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 4: a place to process things. Therapy is a place to 618 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 4: learn coping skills, to make a plan, to set goals. 619 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 4: So therapy can be helpful at any stage of anything 620 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 4: you're struggling with. And you don't have to have a diagnosis. 621 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 4: You don't have to have one event that you want 622 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 4: to work on. You could just be wanting to improve 623 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 4: your life or yourself in some way. 624 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 2: I will say my therapist has it helped my social 625 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 2: anxiety a lot, And she always says, like Gianna, you 626 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: have evidence that you're able to handle these situations, but 627 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 2: you continue to deny the evidence when it happens, and eventually, 628 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 2: as you expose yourself more and more, like you were 629 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: saying before, you do really start believing like Okay, I 630 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 2: clearly can do this. It might be uncomfortable, but I 631 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 2: can survive. All right, Doctor Gumman, thank you so much 632 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: for joining us today. I know we learned so much 633 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 2: from this conversation and listeners are going to take away 634 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 2: a lot as well, So thank you so much for 635 00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 2: joining us. 636 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like we kind of had a 637 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: therapy session just now. 638 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 2: This is selfishly us just meeting advice. 639 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: Honestly, it was just like, just like, let's all get 640 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: in a room together and talk about anxiety. And we 641 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: really appreciate you coming on the show today. Thanks for 642 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: having me. Okay, Doctor Goodman was so cool, and we 643 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: hope those tips she shared will give you the confidence 644 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: to take on that next happy hour coming up. Do 645 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: you follow your co workers on social media? What are 646 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: your social media boundaries? We're getting into it after the 647 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: break all right. 648 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 2: First off, I love that doctor Goodman made such a 649 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 2: weighty topic light. 650 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was really refreshing. What are you taking away 651 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,479 Speaker 1: from this conversation? I really love that she touched on 652 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: small talks, especially since we start off the episode discussing 653 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: how we both have a visceral response to what I'm 654 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: taking way, is that small talk is bound to be 655 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: awkward and honestly, let your freak flag fly when you 656 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: go into rooms, like make sure you set realistic expectations. 657 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: Done is better than perfect in the situation. And what 658 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: I feel is I'm going to do is like I'm 659 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: going to go into rooms and choose one or two 660 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: people that I can create meaningful relationship with instead of 661 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: trying to like spread the seat out all over the place. 662 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: Don't do that. That's a little scary. What about you? 663 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: What are you taking away? 664 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of similar. I think the biggest thing for 665 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 2: me is going into networking events or social settings with 666 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: a goal, especially when it's kind of like no man's land, 667 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 2: uncharted territory, like a networking event. Going in saying, you know, 668 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 2: I want to leave it two connections, I want to 669 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 2: go in and talk to three people whatever it might be, 670 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 2: just makes it so digestible and you kind of know 671 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 2: what to expect, because that's the whole thing, obviously with anxiety, 672 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 2: is this uncertainty of what the event will hold. So 673 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 2: if you go in and kind of create that structure 674 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 2: for yourself, it will just help you ease in and 675 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 2: hopefully enjoy the event. 676 00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: I like it we need to hang out with her 677 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: more often. Yes, she's the best she is. Okay, it 678 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: is now time for one of my favorite segments, cringe 679 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: or Cool. This is the segment where Gian and I 680 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: look at workplace culture or even the latest work trends, 681 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: maybe some hot takes, and we determine if they are 682 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: cringe or cool. Now, guys, it was a very busy 683 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: week for me, so I have no idea what she 684 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: is about to throw my way, and I am very 685 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: freaking into this blend. I am nervous. 686 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 2: Okay, we're talking about following your coworkers on social media. 687 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 2: We follow each other, we do yes. 688 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: To share your well, what about it? 689 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 4: Right? Wrong? 690 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: Cringe cool? Remember when we did that episode around boundaries 691 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: and I. 692 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 2: Was like, I knew you were going to go there, and. 693 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: That's when the boundaries get tested. Okay, so let me 694 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: say this. I am not opposed because naturally people will 695 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: be like, oh whatever, and then they want to follow you. 696 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: I don't try to go out of my way to 697 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: do that because I realize as much as everyone, every company, 698 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: every place that says like bring your authentic selves to work, 699 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: y'all don't need to be seeing Jamie when she's swinging 700 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: from the chandeliers at brunch. Respectfully, there are just some 701 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 1: things that we just need the hot girls to see 702 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: authentic ish. And so for me, you know, I like 703 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: to kind of keep separated church and state. But there 704 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: are obviously people, you know, you and a number of 705 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: other coworkers who I have found bonds with and I'm like, okay, cool, 706 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: we can stay connected. But I do also believe that 707 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: sometimes people are just doing it to clock you and 708 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,919 Speaker 1: and to be nosy. And I'm like, well, baby girl, 709 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: if you want to, you know, if you want to 710 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: come to the show, buy a ticket. You know what 711 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: I'm saying. Like, so I do kind of like try 712 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: to monitor who gets to see but sometimes I have 713 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: no way to do that. And you know what's really 714 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: sticky when you follow people and then you decide never mind, 715 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: my boundary is changed because now I can't unfollow you 716 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: and stuff. Yeah, I'm debating that for some things. 717 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 2: We got to talk off plane. 718 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: Yeah what about I agree with you. 719 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 2: I think you have to like respect your own boundaries 720 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 2: when it comes to who you let follow you on 721 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 2: social media. I definitely follow people who we work with, 722 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 2: and I think that's because you know, we've kind of 723 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 2: created bonds in the office that were taken offline. If 724 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 2: you will, you got to use your discretion with it, 725 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 2: and I definitely will admit like when I like, I 726 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 2: made my profile public and I was like, okay, I 727 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 2: gotta build this brand, like I'm doing that thing, and 728 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 2: I was like, all right, I got to archivee. 729 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: Some old photos. 730 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 2: You know, I got it, And now I'm I'm definitely 731 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 2: cautious of what I'm posting. So I think if you're 732 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 2: like open to that, I think you just have to 733 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 2: be aware of like, yeah, people you work with in 734 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 2: a professional context are going to see what you're posting, 735 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 2: So you either have to decide like I might censor 736 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 2: slightly my content, or you know, I'm gonna put it 737 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 2: all out there and just hope for the bust. 738 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: You're right, which honestly brings up this larger conversation that 739 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: my mom always taught me, which is like, don't put 740 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: anything out into the world you would not want people 741 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: to see. So like footprints are They're crazy? Yes, And 742 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: I know I I always try to go under the 743 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: assumption of best intent and whatever I post out there, 744 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: like if it somehow got plastered up in a team 745 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: meeting of some sort, God forbid, because you already know 746 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: what's sweaty my arn't bits. But I would be like 747 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: okay with that. But I do think though, that there 748 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: are just still some things that you want to maintain 749 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: for yourself. Right now, let me ask you this is it. 750 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: Does it make a difference if your coworker posts often 751 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: versus not? 752 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 3: No? 753 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: So see, that's what I don't understand. Why would I 754 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 1: follow someone who doesn't post at all? 755 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 2: Because you're just like an influencer queen, like hundred followers. 756 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: Person not ya, like a random person. No, I don't know, No, 757 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. Just off the top of my head, 758 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: you're analytics. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I'm using this podcast 759 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: to call you out. No, no, no, no, no, like but no, 760 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: like you don't you don't post anything. Yeah, you know 761 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: your photos look like they were from twenty fifteen. You 762 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: have photos of like a coffee and like a random 763 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: goal coffee. I do, but like, who is this? I 764 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know who. Who is being revealed 765 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: in my spirit? But anyway, no, I know it's just like, uh, 766 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, but if I see, like, oh, people are 767 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: actively engaging you know, we get to work with a 768 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: lot of people who have families are blessed. Yes, I 769 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: love when parents post, like, you know, their babies, they 770 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: take them to the park, or their dogs. You know, 771 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: I'm a dog mom, so I love it, so things 772 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,879 Speaker 1: like that. So anyway, I would love to know from 773 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 1: you guys if you believe in following your co workers 774 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: on social media. I'm gonna throw another muckey wrench in there. 775 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: Tell me if you follow your manager or if you 776 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: allow your manager to follow you. I know Gianna's feelings 777 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: about this, I do. I know we all love Andrew. 778 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, oh yeah, I'm curious, like, do you guys 779 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 2: allow your coworkers to follow you? And like, at what 780 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 2: point are you like, no, this person's not you know, 781 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 2: let us not make it. 782 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: We want to know. 783 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 784 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: Well, anyway, guys, I am going to now go through 785 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: my phone and see who's following me and start blocking off. 786 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 4: I'm about to get blocked. 787 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: No, but seriously, thank you guys so much for listening. 788 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,879 Speaker 2: Make sure you guys are following the newsletter. Let's talk 789 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,439 Speaker 2: offline if you're not already, we go even deeper into 790 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 2: the topics. We discuss on the podcast and you can 791 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 2: share all your hot takes on our segments like cring 792 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 2: or cool. You could find the newsletter link in the 793 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 2: show description and it's also in my LinkedIn bio. 794 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: It absolutely is now. Look, we cannot end the show 795 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 1: without thanking Mariah for sending in their fashion aryah Malriya, 796 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: not Carrie, but Mariya. Thank you. We want to also 797 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: hear you' allsk questions. Okay, so make sure you are 798 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: sending us your questions. Information on how to do that 799 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: is also in the show description. You know where to look. 800 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: Don't embarrass me. 801 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 2: She's looking in the camera. 802 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: Look in the show description. I'm scared yet again. 803 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 2: Okay. Make sure you guys are also reading and following 804 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 2: the show wherever you like to listen. We'd love to 805 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,919 Speaker 2: hear what you're thinking, write a review, show us. 806 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: Some love, all the things, all the things. 807 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 2: All right before you go, remember Jamay and I've always 808 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,279 Speaker 2: got your back, So if something comes up, Let's Talk offline. 809 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 4: I'm Gianna Predenti and. 810 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 1: I'm Jamay Jackson Gadson, Stay Thriving. 811 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 2: Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and 812 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our 813 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 2: producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright. 814 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinnis is our engineer, 815 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 2: and Ben Adair is the executive producer. 816 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 1: Executive producers on iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki Etour. 817 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Humple, Sarah Storm, and 818 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, Dave 819 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: Pond is head of News Production, Courtney Coop is head 820 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in 821 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:49,760 Speaker 1: chief of LinkedIn