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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by code writing

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Speaker 1: carpenter Ants. Instead is supported by the generous contributions of

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Speaker 1: people like you, our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot

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Speaker 1: com slash thinking sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways stories

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Speaker 1: of things we simply don't know the answer too. Well.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways.

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Speaker 1: I am Steve, of course, joined by Devin and Joe

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Speaker 1: and Joe, and this week we have yet another mystery. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This week we are going to talk about the death

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Speaker 1: of Bisbon Negro a Bismon Negro for anybody who doesn't know,

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Speaker 1: was a was a lout a door and his looch doors.

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Speaker 1: That's obviously. Bismo Negro was his ring name. His real

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Speaker 1: name was actually Andreas Alejandro Palamecke Gonzalez. Do we want

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Speaker 1: to tell what people what a looch door is? We will.

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Speaker 1: We're okay, We're gonna get there. I'm sorry, just a

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Speaker 1: brief description of what the mystery is before we talk

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Speaker 1: about the details on it. Pala mack A was found

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Speaker 1: dead under a bridge neil near El Rosario, Mexico, in

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Speaker 1: March of two thousand nine, and the initial belief of

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Speaker 1: what caused his death, and then the eventual official cause

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Speaker 1: of death was accidental drowning, which caused a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions to be raised. And the reason partially is because

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Speaker 1: it was during the dry season in Mexico and he

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Speaker 1: drowned a mud puddal basically, yeah, yeah, he basically drowned

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Speaker 1: in a mud puddle so deadly dihydrogen monoxide that oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: teaspoon that can kill you, can kill you, and everybody

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Speaker 1: who's consumed it dies, you know. Okay, So this, this

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Speaker 1: supposed mud puddle was actually it was a body of water.

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Speaker 1: It was about a waiste not waist deep. But it

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Speaker 1: is really strange because it raises the question of how

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Speaker 1: does a man who is so physically fit drowned in

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Speaker 1: such a small body of water stand up? Stand up?

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Speaker 1: And so the mystery, the questions around the mystery are,

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Speaker 1: you know, how did he die? Was it really an accident?

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Speaker 1: If so, how did it happen? And if it wasn't

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Speaker 1: an accident, then it must have been murdered? And who

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Speaker 1: pulled off this very well covered up murder? Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: really what our story is. Good questions. It's quite insidious,

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Speaker 1: I must agree. Before we get into the mystery. Quick

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Speaker 1: shout out to Stephen who suggested this, not not not me,

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Speaker 1: know somebody else like a year ago, which I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is another one I've been sitting on forever. I

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Speaker 1: admit it. I'm doing this all the time. You are,

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Speaker 1: you know. I go through that cheat that we keep

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Speaker 1: of all of the suggestions, and I see, oh, that

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Speaker 1: one sounds all Steve called Dibbs already. That was Steve

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Speaker 1: called Dibbs already. Okay, I'll do this one. No, Joe's

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Speaker 1: got DIBs already. You guys been doing it for years.

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Speaker 1: I know. I really appoloy, I really we should have

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Speaker 1: warned you, except that you would have got in on

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Speaker 1: the really good stories. Is to tell you that we

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Speaker 1: were calling dibbs on spreadsheets, so I didn't know. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, Devon, we're calling dibbs on the spreadsheet,

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Speaker 1: So go ahead and call DIBs on anything you want.

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Speaker 1: Oh great, now, thanks. You know. Actually, the reason I

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Speaker 1: do that every time it's time to do an episode

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to think of a good mystery to do,

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Speaker 1: I go out there and I go to those things,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes I'll be opening those up and realizing Christ.

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Speaker 1: You know, I looked at this thing like three times already,

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Speaker 1: and I've forgotten about it and gone back and looks

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Speaker 1: I started, I said, I decided to start marking the

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Speaker 1: good ones. And you'll know I've marked out the ones.

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Speaker 1: Is too short or not a mystery, or I have

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Speaker 1: noticed Joe has his own crib note system. He does.

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Speaker 1: I still don't know what the asterric means. I've asked

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Speaker 1: him three times. He refuses to tell me. Actually, I've

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Speaker 1: forgotten what it means. Think it means. I've looked at

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Speaker 1: it yourself. So new mystery next week? What does the

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Speaker 1: astrict meaning? Okay, alright, let's go on with our story.

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Speaker 1: I do okay. Before we actually get into the story,

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Speaker 1: quick quick disclaimer here story took place in Mexico. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of Spanish. Spanish is not a language that

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Speaker 1: I am very good with. I mean, if you've heard

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Speaker 1: me speak British English, you know how bad I am

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Speaker 1: or English English English English. So I have done a

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Speaker 1: lot of work to get the pronunciations of things right.

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Speaker 1: If I dropped something, which chances are good, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: drop a couple of things wrong. I apologize in advance Okay,

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Speaker 1: back to Devon's question several minutes ago, which is what's

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Speaker 1: a Luchadors are wrestlers. Luchadors are part of sport which

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Speaker 1: is called lucha libre, which loosely translates to English is

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Speaker 1: free fight. Lucha libres kind of similar to professional wrestling

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Speaker 1: that you'll see in the US, which is it's non

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Speaker 1: greco Roman wrestling. Yeah, it's like the professional wrestling with

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Speaker 1: the guys are big, hooking guys and they have these

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Speaker 1: all have these grievances against one another. We're talking like

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Speaker 1: ww e JO sort of stuff, except that the lucha

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Speaker 1: libre is a little unique in terms of there's a

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Speaker 1: cultural aspect where all of the wrestlers are always seen

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Speaker 1: in the ring as their persona or outside the ring

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Speaker 1: as their persona, where they're wearing a mask, if not

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Speaker 1: an outfit, and we're talking likes full face mask, you know,

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Speaker 1: complete body suits that are color matched. So there are

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Speaker 1: things that you'll see with these where it is very

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Speaker 1: stylistically linked together. The masks are very stylistic, and one

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Speaker 1: wrestler's mask and another's wrestler's mask don't look anything alike

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Speaker 1: other than their a mask because just the way it's organized,

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Speaker 1: So it's it's it's very distinct. Yeah. Frankly, I've always

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Speaker 1: been a little creeped out by those masks. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would agree with that. Actually, well, you know it's It's

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Speaker 1: funny though, is that most people probably will know what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about because there's so much pop culture stuff

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Speaker 1: that's been done. I mean there's cartoons. There was mucha

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Speaker 1: Lucca which was on TV for several years, which was

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Speaker 1: a cartoon road Strong Bad from Home Start Runner. Although

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Speaker 1: my favorite thing about Strong Bad. Have you ever caught

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Speaker 1: the joke of Strong Bad he's wearing a luchador mask,

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Speaker 1: but he also wears boxing gloves. Yeah, so there's this weird,

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Speaker 1: this weird little joke. And and who he is Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Nacho Libre. Also, I don't think he wore the mask.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see the movie. I didn't watch that. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: that's one of those ones. I wasn't gonna wat check

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Speaker 1: made that movie where poop disappeared. I kind of stopped

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Speaker 1: watching this movie. I literally have no idea what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about exactly. I don't think I saw that one either.

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Speaker 1: You're lucky. Yeah, what movie was that? Ben Stiller was

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Speaker 1: in it. That's all you need to know. Don't don't,

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Speaker 1: don't go down that alley. I'm gonna go on record

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Speaker 1: here as saying, in regards to Lucally Bring, it's all fake.

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Speaker 1: What pretty sure it's all fake? And I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: that's a well accepted fact. I don't know about that, Steve. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So American w w E slash ten A wrestling people

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Speaker 1: still try to pretend that's real. But the reading that

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Speaker 1: I got that I did. I get the feeling that

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Speaker 1: you know, people who watched literally they get that it's

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Speaker 1: kind of made up. Well, of course it is. Now Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I've I've gone ahead and I've piste off sports

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Speaker 1: fans this entire continent at this point. I'm sure not

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Speaker 1: many of our listeners aren't wrestling fans. You know, it

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Speaker 1: all makes sense. I mean, if you're going out into

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Speaker 1: the ring, like you know, five times a week or

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Speaker 1: whatever and actually really going at it, you can't just

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Speaker 1: do that all the time. Injured a lot. Did either

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Speaker 1: of you watch matches for this? I have seen them before.

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Speaker 1: I didn't for this. I was I was cracking up

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Speaker 1: watching some of the matches where they are just they're

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Speaker 1: all super macho and they're buff and it's so hard,

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Speaker 1: and then one guy smacks into another guy and that

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Speaker 1: guy goes completely flaccid and falls down and then jumps

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Speaker 1: up into suddenly just sy energizing, so hilarious. One of

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Speaker 1: my favorites is one like one guy is down in

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Speaker 1: the center of the ring and the other guy starts

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Speaker 1: running back and forth corner to quarter, bouncing off the

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Speaker 1: ropes about him. Yeah, I mean, the idea I think

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Speaker 1: is that is that he's like building up momentum and speed.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Really all he's doing is running back

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Speaker 1: and forth, Yeah, right to fall. It's not even like

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Speaker 1: you're gonna run. He's building up static electricity probably, And

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Speaker 1: let me see you see him, Like do the other

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Speaker 1: one with the guys down, He clambs up on the

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Speaker 1: ropes in the corner and then jumps off on the guy,

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Speaker 1: jumps on top of him and then just lads next

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Speaker 1: to him, and his arm is actually the only part

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Speaker 1: of them that hits the guy's body. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's just totally the whole thing. It's just is

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Speaker 1: so much fun to watch as long as you keep

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Speaker 1: that in mind, because I'd laugh for a good fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes watching these. They are so fun. But that's enough

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Speaker 1: about the little precursor bits. Let's get into our mystery.

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Speaker 1: Are we ready to rumble? Yeah, let's get ready to rumble.

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Speaker 1: You're right, okay. So Pala Macka had been wrestling for

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Speaker 1: about two decades. He began his career in At that

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Speaker 1: time he was under the character or ring name of

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Speaker 1: Alex Dynamo, and then, several years later and of course

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Speaker 1: masked and costume changes, began wrestling as Pecanyo Samurai, which

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Speaker 1: translates the little Samurai. What does it did his costume

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Speaker 1: look like a samurai? You're gonna you're gonna look it

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Speaker 1: up now. I'm going to tell you that it doesn't

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Speaker 1: look like a samurai. I'm just gonna tell you no

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Speaker 1: swords involved. It is wrestling. He uh He. Then again,

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Speaker 1: later several years later, changed his outfit again and his

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Speaker 1: persona and in two became Winners that's the character's name, Winners,

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Speaker 1: at which point he actually enjoyed a lot of success.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he did. He actually had. He had pretty good

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Speaker 1: career there for a while before he started circling the

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Speaker 1: drain Winners. It's just not it's just not omin enough,

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Speaker 1: ominous enough sounding. Okay, So there's there's this funny thing

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Speaker 1: in in luter libre where there's rudios, which are the

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Speaker 1: rude boys that you're bad guys, and then there's the

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Speaker 1: good guys. And the rudio's always have these kind of

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Speaker 1: sinister names, and the good guys have these very simple, clean,

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Speaker 1: pure names. And so winners or winner, depending on how

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Speaker 1: you see it written. He was a good guy, so

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Speaker 1: it's kind of that clean, pure name. So that's why

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Speaker 1: I believe that's what that's why it was only winner

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Speaker 1: instead of the Olympic Champion winners or something crazy like that.

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Speaker 1: He did. He did eventually do that. Um. But here's

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Speaker 1: something that we got to point out about the wrestling

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Speaker 1: sport itself, which is things are done with luchadors. There

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Speaker 1: are leagues or federations, and people might be sort of

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Speaker 1: familiar with this with other sports. You know, you see

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Speaker 1: the majors and the miners and and the semipro leagues

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Speaker 1: and all this stuff. The thing about the Luca libre

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Speaker 1: is that there are these leagues or federations, whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to call them, that all operate at the same

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Speaker 1: level into pendant of one another. So there are we

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Speaker 1: to actually mentioned this briefly earlier. In the US, there

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Speaker 1: is the w w E, the World Wrestling Entertainments formerly

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Speaker 1: WWF formally WWF, And there is also t N A

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Speaker 1: Total Total NonStop Action, which I've never heard of before,

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Speaker 1: you know, really, yeah, I've heard of it for years,

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Speaker 1: but I always thought it was part of t n

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Speaker 1: T the TV, But it's not. But these are two

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Speaker 1: leagues that are on the same level, but they are

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Speaker 1: completely autonomous of one another. They're there, wrestlers don't don't

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Speaker 1: crossover and wrestle their guys, and if they do, they

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Speaker 1: full on leave one side and begin to operate inside

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Speaker 1: the circles of the other. They don't. They don't go

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Speaker 1: back and forth. No crossover. Now, so they were the

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Speaker 1: luchador masks and the costumes and all that stuff. Is

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Speaker 1: it publicized who's behind that masker? Is it just you know,

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Speaker 1: when they're talking about the are they saying this person

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Speaker 1: is this person? Or are they just saying and it's

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Speaker 1: this person they always refer as, at least in my experience.

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Speaker 1: And again, I don't know a lot of Spanish. I

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Speaker 1: don't watch a watch a lot, so I can't give

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Speaker 1: good firsthand knowledge of this. But what I understand is

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Speaker 1: everybody kind of knows who behind who's behind the mask,

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Speaker 1: But when the mask is on, that is the character,

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Speaker 1: and that is who you talk about. You don't say

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Speaker 1: and Bob Jones playing the whatever whatever, that's that's not

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Speaker 1: the way it goes character, you know. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: um as an example, in the w WF when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid, so there was there was Hull Cogan.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knew who whole Cogan was. Well, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: his name. But then there's Jake the Snake. Well, Jake's

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Speaker 1: last name was not Snake. His character was Jake the Snake.

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Speaker 1: He had a last name. His first name happened to

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Speaker 1: be Jake. They never said Jake the Snake a k A.

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Speaker 1: Whatever his full name. About the Undertaker, that was not

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Speaker 1: his real name. That's not his legal name. No, No,

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Speaker 1: I have some I have some apology letters to write. Do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are way off track. Okay, So we were talking

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Speaker 1: about the League's what we were talking about. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: palamcka was originally he was wrestling under uh. It's commonly

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Speaker 1: the abbreviation in English is cml L, which is consert

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Speaker 1: Ho Mundial de Lucha Libre, which is Spanish for World

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Speaker 1: Wrestling Council. And that was when he was under the

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Speaker 1: characters of Alex Dynamo and Pecano Samurai. And then after

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Speaker 1: he went over to what you see commonly referred to

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Speaker 1: his Triple A promotions, which I'm actually not going to

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Speaker 1: try and say this one Spanish because I know a

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Speaker 1: butcher really badly, uh, which in Spanish translated to English,

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Speaker 1: it is assistance counseling and Administra Arasian promotions, which is

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Speaker 1: why everybody calls it Triple A because it sounds much

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Speaker 1: sexier that way. But when he was when Palomo palam

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Speaker 1: Oke was at Triple A, that's when he started his

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Speaker 1: winners and he had a lot of success with them,

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Speaker 1: and then in he changed from one of the good

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Speaker 1: guys to the bad guys. He changed his character, and

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Speaker 1: that's when he became a bismo negro, which is the

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Speaker 1: black abyss, which we haven't actually said yet. It is

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Speaker 1: absolutely correct. We have not said that the direct translation,

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Speaker 1: So this is this is the funny thing. Joe and

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Speaker 1: I chatted about this a little bit earlier. The direct

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Speaker 1: translation in English is abyss black, but it is properly

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Speaker 1: translated black Abyss. Yeah, that's one of those nuances of translation.

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Speaker 1: It is, and it's it plays a bit of a

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Speaker 1: role later on as we go through things. But he

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Speaker 1: had a lot of success, Like I said, he did

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Speaker 1: that he made that transition. He was one of their

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Speaker 1: top wrestlers at Triple A in two thousand and four.

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Speaker 1: He was good enough that he actually got into an

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Speaker 1: exchange program with t NA here in the US, and

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Speaker 1: he for a year wrestled in matches in the States

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Speaker 1: with the mask and everything before he eventually went back.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny. I watched some of those matches and

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Speaker 1: it's kind of terrible and shame on ten A for

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Speaker 1: doing this a little bit. I mean, he does English,

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Speaker 1: but he plays totally dumb like he doesn't know English,

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Speaker 1: and they play that up. It's a weird stereotype thing.

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Speaker 1: It was awkward, still totally hilarious to watch him running

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Speaker 1: around smacking guys in the face. But yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a little strange. It's a little strange. Yeah, the whole

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Speaker 1: thing is a little strange to watch that if the

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Speaker 1: people who watch it and take it seriously is what

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Speaker 1: I don't. But again, I have made all those people

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Speaker 1: angry once, So we're not going to keep doing that.

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Speaker 1: Let's move forward. So after you know, there's he goes

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Speaker 1: to the States. He's in on the teen A matches

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Speaker 1: for a year. He then he starts to hit what

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Speaker 1: I would call a rough match, starts missing matches on

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Speaker 1: a relatively regular basis, and based on the reading that

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Speaker 1: I've done, he's generally starts to be considered unreliable, as

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Speaker 1: in not showing up for matches. And that's kind of

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Speaker 1: a bummer. Yeah, it's thousands of people show up for

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Speaker 1: a four match night and one of the guys doesn't show.

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Speaker 1: They just paid for a three match night and they're

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Speaker 1: they're not happy. Well, but so here's a question. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they wear a costume and a mask, mask, there's no option,

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Speaker 1: yeah for there to just have somebody else go on

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Speaker 1: as him. I think that might have been done a

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Speaker 1: few times. So there, um, there is ways that that happened.

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Speaker 1: There are some negative repercussions that come about from that.

296
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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about some personally or both for the

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Speaker 1: both for the reputation of the character as well as

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Speaker 1: the organizer of the event, depending upon how they go

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Speaker 1: about it. There I mean, we can just jump to this.

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Speaker 1: There's a bit where somebody goes on stage pretending to

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Speaker 1: be our wrestler, our luchador here, and it is not

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Speaker 1: actually him, and they bill it as him and don't

303
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Speaker 1: make any mention that they have a fill in pretending,

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Speaker 1: And when it comes out what happened, that promoter gets

305
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Speaker 1: banned for two years. So we'll talk about that a

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Speaker 1: little bit later. Yeah, so it's it's possible. I know

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Speaker 1: exactly where you're heading with that, but it's it's terrible

308
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Speaker 1: for me. Yeah. Um, So the problem is he's missing

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Speaker 1: these matches because, according to the rumors that we're floating about,

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Speaker 1: and this is for a good number of years, he

311
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Speaker 1: really some drugs. He especially seems to have been fond

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Speaker 1: of cocaine. People are a lot of people do like

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Speaker 1: cocaine to the length that he is reported to have

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Speaker 1: wrestled for drugs as well as possibly have done it

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Speaker 1: in the locker room in the open with other wrestlers.

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Speaker 1: Maybe this sounds like rude, but don't you kind of

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Speaker 1: think you'd want to be high if you were doing

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Speaker 1: this for a living. I'm actually if you're gonna go

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Speaker 1: like fake a fight, don't you think maybe you want

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Speaker 1: high before that. I can't believe I'm about to do this,

321
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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna defend wrestling in a way that I

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Speaker 1: never thought I was gonna do. Yes, Okay, so let's

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Speaker 1: think about this. A match is choreographed. You go to

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Speaker 1: the ballet and these dancers have trained, and they know

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Speaker 1: their steps and their routines and where they're supposed to be,

326
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Speaker 1: where their marks are are are on stage the entire time,

327
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Speaker 1: as are moving about rapidly with up to you know,

328
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Speaker 1: I don't know how many of them on the site,

329
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,959
Speaker 1: but a bunch of people. Okay. Now let's think about that.

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Speaker 1: From the point of a wrestler. There are two of you.

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Speaker 1: You are choreographed to do very specific things, which are

332
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Speaker 1: feats of athleticism. The last thing you want is the

333
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,160
Speaker 1: other dude high as a kite and missing his mark

334
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 1: and bringing his elbow down not on the mat next

335
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: to your head, but on your throat. Like there, there's

336
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 1: a lot of choreography and actual skill involved. I get

337
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 1: that wrestling is a joke, but there's a ton of

338
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 1: skill in or that to look real. But if if

339
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,439
Speaker 1: you took a few lines before the match, you know

340
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: it might, it won't necessarily make you less sharp. Two

341
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 1: points one used Ballerina, which was maybe a bad example

342
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Speaker 1: because I know I'm going to get some flak for this,

343
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 1: But a lot of ballerina's do cocaine, like a lot

344
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 1: of them, almost all of them. I understand that. Please

345
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: don't send me angry emails. And two two's got it. Yeah,

346
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 1: I mean that's been a thing. Um. But I guess

347
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Speaker 1: point two is I don't know. I guess I don't

348
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: know the history well enough to know. You know, maybe

349
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: he was actually a serious wrestler and hated the fact

350
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 1: that he sold out, and so he wanted to get high,

351
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 1: so he wasn't so embarrassed by I. I don't think

352
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 1: that you can get into the sport. I mean he

353
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: started in the sport at fourteen, he started professionally. I

354
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: mean his debut. He was a sixteen year old kid.

355
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: So he at this point you know in the story

356
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: when he dies, he's almost a forty year old man.

357
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: He's been doing it for years. If he had a

358
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 1: problem with it, if he would have gotten out of here,

359
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,640
Speaker 1: he would have this. It would have been very obvious

360
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 1: many many years ago. Mostly, I just like you don't

361
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 1: know why I am why I'm even bringing this stuff up,

362
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: because I feel like it's just not an issue that

363
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Speaker 1: he was doing cocaine. I mean, obviously it's an issue

364
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: that anybody's doing cocaine. But but but there is there's

365
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,479
Speaker 1: a there's a certain level of physical control that you

366
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: have to have to pull off some of these things.

367
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you see these crazy flying moves that these

368
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: guys do, and if you are blitzed in any way,

369
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: well it's not heroin. I mean, but if you are

370
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: not in your most soberst state of mind, bad things

371
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: can happen. So that's why I say that. But the

372
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Speaker 1: point is he he's apparently liked his drugs and like

373
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Speaker 1: I said, to put it all the drugs on the table.

374
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: He liked to do coke. And it is also rumored

375
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of guys at the time and

376
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 1: previous to him we're doing he was also on anabolic steroids.

377
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 1: He was on steroids. It's no I thank you, Joe.

378
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 1: It is very highly suspected, but there is nothing that

379
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 1: I have found that says definitively he was on steroids.

380
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: He Palaback evidently knew or somebody around him knew that

381
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 1: there was a problem because he apparently went into rehab

382
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 1: several times. And I also am under under the understanding

383
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: that Triple A banned him a couple of times. Maybe

384
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: not officially, but he would come and go in the scene.

385
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: If you're missing matches, obviously they're going to do something

386
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: to you. Yeah. I think it was probably something in

387
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: the order of, you know, go away, going to rehab,

388
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 1: get yourself cleaned up, and they'd come back someday whenever,

389
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 1: you know, right, And so then they would let him

390
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: come back and he would seem fine, and then the

391
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: process of the cycle would start again, and then things

392
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: would go bad and they'd kick him out. Now, Triple A,

393
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 1: they were trying to figure out what to do because

394
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: his character was pretty popular and they needed a roudio

395
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: in that he was still winners at that time. No, no,

396
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: he was. He was a bismo negro at this point

397
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 1: because he had he had gone to that character seven.

398
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: So this character is really fans loved him because he

399
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: was just he did this weird thing. He loved to

400
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: bring out a lighter and a can of hairspray or

401
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: something like that, and he was he was doing the

402
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: flamethrowers and walking down through a crowd of people with

403
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: fire like. People loved this crap, so he was very popular.

404
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 1: Triple A is trying to figure out what they're gonna

405
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: do because they're very popular. Rudio is suddenly super unreliable,

406
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: and what do they do. They go ahead and they

407
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: introduced a new Rudio who is black Abits in English,

408
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: right in English. Very similar costume slight. I mean if

409
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: if they pitched these guys against each other as a

410
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: gimmick several times and you watch it, I had a

411
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: hard time keeping straight who was who. I had to

412
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: dial the video back to look at the colors of

413
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: who did what because the costumes are so similar. But

414
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: they did this as a way of, well, you know,

415
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: if you kind of screw it up, we're gonna we're

416
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: gonna kick you out and we're just gonna replace you

417
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: with black Abyss, so you know, get your stuff together. Man.

418
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: It's funny, but it didn't seem to fix the problem.

419
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: So let's move to the last days of Pala Machi's life.

420
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: In two thousand nine, Pala Macki took part in the

421
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: King of Kings event which was in Guadalajara, and that

422
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: happened on either the fourteenth or the fifteenth of March

423
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: is when it began. I had a hard time pinning

424
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: down the exact date, but I think that's because the

425
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: reporting is based on matches and not the event itself.

426
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: But the point is he was eliminated in the first round.

427
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: He is then known to have been wrestling at event

428
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: at an event in most Lawn on the sixteenth of March,

429
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: and he was subsequently supposed to be at a match

430
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: on the twenty one at another city in Mexico, and

431
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: he no showed that event event. He was at the

432
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: one on the sixteenth and then didn't show for the

433
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: one five days later on fort Maybe he know you, yeah, yeah,

434
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: because it's rumored that he stayed in Muslon and he

435
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: went on a coke bender for at least five days,

436
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: until which point he ran out of money. And this,

437
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: by the way, I don't know this for sure. I

438
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: want to put that out there. This is based on

439
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 1: the reporting that is done. His family has never said this,

440
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: and we don't have a real clear accounting of his

441
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: actions during that time from the match on the sixt forward,

442
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: so we don't know this for sure, this is strongly believed,

443
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 1: but not not a hundred percent proven. He's either supposed

444
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: to be on the twenty one. He was either supposed

445
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: to be in Monterey or in Cancoon, I don't know

446
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: which one. But instead what he does is he leaves

447
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: mas Lan and he heads home on a bus to

448
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: Mexico City. So it goes in the wrong direction entirely,

449
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: like he just needs bows off the match. He wants

450
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: to go home to get home. Like I said, he

451
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: got on a bus. And this is another bit of

452
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 1: weirdness in the reporting, which is he got on the

453
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: bus either on Friday or Saturday, the twenty one. And

454
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: here's why I think it's weird is that the bus

455
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: left at twelve thirty in the morning. So my impression

456
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: is at the bus probably actually left on Saturday morning

457
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: at twelve thirty am. Probably, But the way it's reported,

458
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: you'll see it said that he got on a bus

459
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: on Friday, and blah blah blah blah blah. Well maybe

460
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: it was Friday when he went on the bus. He

461
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: certainly probably showed up at the bus day Friday. No,

462
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: but you will also see it said definitively that he

463
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: got on a bus that left at this time, and

464
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: he got and it was his Saturday was the day

465
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: that the bus departed town. Like, it's weirdness, but I'm

466
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: pretty sure that morning hours of Saturday and we got

467
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: on Friday night. It's weird. But about an hour into

468
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: the trip, so this is about one thirty am, Palamcha

469
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: reportedly he became agitated. You see this described as having

470
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: a nervous breakdown. Uh, it was to the point that

471
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: he got up. He went to the driver and he

472
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: made the driver of the bus stop the bus and

473
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: he got off the bus on on the edge of

474
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: the highway. Now this happens near the town of El Rosario.

475
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: The bus driver evidently must have reported this to his

476
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: superiors because they knew where they dropped him. How it's miles,

477
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: it's not, it's not, it's it's more like a dozen

478
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: maybe two dozen miles away at the very most, I

479
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: would say, what's it? Oh, no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry,

480
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: Mas it lawn to El Rosario. It was an hour drive,

481
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: which means it must have been about fifty miles. I apologized,

482
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: though I was thinking of the bus stopped outside north

483
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: of the town of El Rosario. Based on what I

484
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: figured out. That's where I was getting that mixed up.

485
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: So it's about an hour away, about yep. And he

486
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: walks away from the bus and shortly thereafter Tex his

487
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: wife and says something to the effect of he's lost

488
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: in the dark in the hills. She faring for you

489
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: know him, what's going on? She contacts a promoter that

490
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: they know who's in most lawn to you know, get

491
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: a search party and go look for him. Uh. That

492
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: search party, I have to resume, didn't start that night,

493
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: probably started the next morning. They went around town, they

494
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: showed his picture around, nobody recognized him, at which point

495
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: they began to search outside of the town. They've the

496
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: searchers found Palamas body and I believe it wasn't just

497
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: these private parties. It was by this tend of police. Also, yes,

498
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: the police were involved. Yes, I mean, this is just

499
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: people looking for him, I guess. Is what I meant

500
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: is they started the search party in general. I excluded

501
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: the police. That's my bad. They go looking for him Sunday, March.

502
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: They find his body face down under a bridge in

503
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: a body of water, Like I said, very small body

504
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: of water. It's the dry season. It's one of those bridges.

505
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: You may have seen the sports concrete bridge, and there

506
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: is a river and walls of concrete. Walls have been

507
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: built up on either side, either side of the bank

508
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: of the river vertically, and then the bridge sits on

509
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: top of those, so it makes kind of a channel,

510
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: and the center between the concrete creates a divot. That's

511
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: where the body of water was almost directly under the bridge,

512
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: and that's where his body was found floating, which is weird. Again,

513
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: it's one of the few places where the water could

514
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: have accumulated. Now I in the reading, they never say

515
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: specifically where it is. Did they find a smiley face

516
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: drawn anywhere near the body? Not that I ever saw,

517
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: but it's entirely possible that it may have been cut out.

518
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: He wasn't in college, Okay, sorry, he may have been

519
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: in the Lucha Libre fraternity. Now, as I said before,

520
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: though we don't know exactly. The reporting doesn't specify where

521
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: the bridge is, uh, which this is. This is a failing.

522
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: I reported this, by the way. This is a failing

523
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: on the part of Google Translate. There appears to be

524
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: in the town of El Rosario, a citrus company and

525
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: according to the translated text it is it is a

526
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: bridge that is Citrus Company tall. So I reported that issue,

527
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: but it appears to be several miles north of the

528
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: town on the fifty most lawn Tepic Highway is where

529
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: he was found. Um he was found and the report

530
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: again this is the weird part. The reporting says that

531
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: he the body was found in the Beloirte River, which

532
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: actually is south of the town, and if you look

533
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: at it on satellite, there's these really big bridges with

534
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: big pillars and nothing matches the crime scene photos. There is, however,

535
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: a small stream that flows into the Balarte that starts

536
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: north of the town. It's really weird if you look.

537
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: If you you have to follow the freeway to figure

538
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: out exactly where his body is. The point is he's

539
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: found in the river. I know I took that way

540
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: too far, but so he found in the creek, not

541
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: the river. It's basically it's creek he's found the depression

542
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: in the ground that's full of water. Initially, the official

543
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: cause of death is nervous breakdown caused by steroids, and

544
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: those steroid that nervous breakdown is what caused him to

545
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: fall on the water and get stuck in the mud

546
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: and because he was unable to pull himself out of

547
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: the mud drowned. I mean, I have problems with that,

548
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: but also like I have huge problems with that. But yes,

549
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: frowning is the official cod though. Yeah, I mean if

550
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what happens when you're having a nervous breakdown,

551
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna get into the We're gonna get

552
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: this much more. I know, I understand. So let me

553
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 1: finish this last. We got just the last little bit here,

554
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: and then we'll get into theories. Um, there is an

555
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: autopsy reformed apparently on the body. But once they figured

556
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: out that, yeah, there's water in his lungs, they stopped

557
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: doing anything else because they figured out why he died.

558
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: They don't ever try to figure out what caused his

559
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: mental breakdown, and so they stopped the autopsy when they

560
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: they found the water. They didn't like check his heart

561
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: to see if he had had a heart attack or

562
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: anything like that, or nothing is reported along those lines.

563
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: Nothing says that. And here's the problem is that the

564
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: like I said in the beginning, the initial the medical

565
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: examiners like, well, he was obviously on steroids, and that's

566
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: the problem, and that's what caused all of this, and oh, look,

567
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: I found water in his lungs and I'm done. At

568
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: which point, kind of similarly to what we talked about

569
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 1: in the Kobaine case, body has turned over to the family.

570
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: The family has the body cremated in a matter of

571
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: days after the fact, and we have no records of

572
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: what was discovered or how much investigation they actually did

573
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: during that autopsy and I have done. I find it

574
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: hard to believe that they would just say, oh, water

575
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: and the lungs, We're done. We're not gonna do anything else.

576
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: That's it. Now, Everybody pack it up. That seems odd

577
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: to me that that's all they reported. But I can't

578
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: imagine in a small town in rural Mexico. It could

579
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 1: be that I don't have a time or the funding

580
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: to do a whole lot. Look, I found water in

581
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: the lungs. I get to sign off and say this

582
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: is what happened, and get my five minutes in the sun.

583
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: The news loves me. I pronounced a bismo Negro died

584
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 1: of drowning. But was that guy he said a small town?

585
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: Was he actually a forensic pathologist, or was he perhaps

586
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: just a regular doctor? He was the local medical examiner. Yeah,

587
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: but I don't know a local. Does that mean that

588
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: it's a hundred mile radius area? I don't know how

589
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: big of a range he covered. I couldn't find that.

590
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 1: This is one of those weird it's you know, it's

591
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: kind of an area where there's not a whole lot

592
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: of information available. Well exactly how big of a spread

593
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: he covered. There's one last thing which I know we

594
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: actually talked about this just a little bit ago, which is, uh,

595
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: they one of March, which was a Saturday, Abismo Negro

596
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: should have been there at a match, and and he was.

597
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: He was wrestling. He wrestled that night, and the crowd

598
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: loved it. He was he was already dead, even though

599
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: apparently he was either already dead or happending on a

600
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: train on a bus. Yeah. Yeah, So, uh, this is

601
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: the part I talked about where it was found out

602
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: later on that somebody had dressed up in an outfit

603
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: looking like him and took to the ring. Now Black Abyss,

604
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 1: the character whose name is in English, had been known

605
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 1: to come and fill in when he wouldn't show up,

606
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: except Black Abyss was that a rat? Was that a

607
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: match somewhere else? Black abyss. So somebody else had to

608
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: come in there and right, and they didn't say anything

609
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 1: and it came out and it was a huge egg

610
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: on the face situation. But that's one of those things

611
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: that people use as a conspiracy line of Well, obviously

612
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: they knew that something was happened to it was going

613
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: to happen to him, and they booked somebody else to

614
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: come in as I had a time, somebody had given

615
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: h wind that this thing was going to go down.

616
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: This is one of those things that you see happens wrong,

617
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: you know, maybe or maybe maybe they got wind that

618
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: he was on a five day coke vendor and they

619
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: decided they were going to need a replacement. That's possible,

620
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: absolutely possible. Well let's go ahead and that's the end

621
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: of the story. Let's let's move right into theories because

622
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: there's actually a good number of theories that they're all

623
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: pretty inter linked, but they're kind of like small variants

624
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: on one another a little bit. So theory number one

625
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:40,479
Speaker 1: is not or actually you know what could be? Yeah, yeah,

626
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: you know what, never steal coke from a chio picabra,

627
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: for though, dude, that's a bad grudge, lifetime grudge. And

628
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 1: by lifetime. I mean, you're short remaining amount of lifetime.

629
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: You can get your man. Let's get back to reality here,

630
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 1: which is that the theory is that Palamic was murdered

631
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 1: by a cocaine dealer and or a car drug cartel. Yes. Um,

632
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: so we talked about the fact that he had a

633
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: penchant for cocaine, apparently according to the reporting. And when

634
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: you like to do lots of drugs, you end up

635
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: hanging out with the people who supply you those drugs,

636
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: and those don't tend to be the most reputable people around.

637
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: So the theory goes that Palamack a um, he's hanging

638
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: out with these people, he pisces off the wrong person,

639
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: presumably a drug dealer, and my guess would be that

640
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: this would have had to have happened in Maslaan, and

641
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: that dealer, that angry drug dealer, then says that you're

642
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: gonna get it. I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna get

643
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: you for this, which is what prompts him to leave

644
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: down quite quickly on a bus and what prompts him

645
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: then to have his panic attack or freak out and

646
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: get off of the bus and send this panic he

647
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: text to his wife I don't know. I mean, it's

648
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: it's possible that maybe the guy was also texting him,

649
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: though I haven't. I've never found any records of that.

650
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 1: His wife has never provided anything that supports this at all.

651
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: I suppose his phone was in his pocket when he

652
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: was found, and probably it was wet and they probably

653
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: couldn't really restore anything. I would presume that that would

654
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: be the case. There's no mention of where his phone

655
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: was recovered. That's a that's another interesting fact that actually

656
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: been recovered. Yeah, it might might have dropped it and

657
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: lost it somewhere, but he may very well. But I

658
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: have a few theories on this one. Okay, Well, let

659
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: me let me finish just the theory itself, or do

660
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: you want to you want okay? So basically, this theory

661
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: is that he's in contact with this drug person. I

662
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 1: know that sounds silly, but drug person, and that freaks

663
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: him out. He gets off the bus. Somehow, they find

664
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: him in either a shove him off of the bridge

665
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: into the water, or are on the bank with him

666
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: and drag him into the water and hold him under

667
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: the water until he expired. Yeah. I just had a

668
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: couple of thoughts. Um, you know in terms of if

669
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: somebody was following him or not. Uh yeah, okay, somebody

670
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: could have been texting him. He could have had an

671
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: additional phone. If he was doing lots of drugs, he

672
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: probably had a burner. Somebody was on the bus with him.

673
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: I thought was the other thing I was gonna say

674
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: is it could have been somebody who's on the bus

675
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: with him, or it could have been that if a

676
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: drug dealer was thinking, oh, I'm going to kill this guy,

677
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: he provided him with some less than pure drugs or

678
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: some drugs with some laced with something of some kind

679
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: that he did right before he got on the bus

680
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: or while he was on the bus that caused his

681
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: panic attack. I mean, it's not a direct hand of

682
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: I literally held this guy's head under the water and

683
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: killed him. But if you send him into a panic

684
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: attack on a bus in the middle of nowhere, he's

685
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: probably going to have a panic attack and somehow find

686
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: himself dead or otherwise locked up. But I wonder if

687
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: somebody couldn't, like go slip him a little LSD, yeah,

688
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: or you know, or all you do is you give

689
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: him bad drugs and then have one of your guys

690
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: be on the bus with him, but just to ensure

691
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: nobody was witness getting off the bus after him. No,

692
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: I don't, and I don't mean that. I mean that.

693
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: You know, you do your drugs and then you start

694
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: to slip into this paranoia and you look up and

695
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: there's one of the guys who is your drug dealer's henchman,

696
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: and you think, oh my god, I have to get

697
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: off this bus. So he gets off the bus and

698
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: nobody follows him, which is fine, but he's still in

699
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: this panic state of what's gonna happen. It's gonna happen,

700
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: have to get away, have to get away, have to

701
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: get away. So the thing about that is is that

702
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: if the henchman is there scaring him, then getting off

703
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: the bus in the middle of nowhere really makes no sense. Yeah,

704
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: I agree with that, but I'm not. But we're not

705
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: saying that he's as Steve would say, we're not thinking

706
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: rational thought here. Thank you. There's that. But the other

707
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: in too, If you could to send the hit squad

708
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: out to find him, well, number one, how do you

709
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: find him out there in the dark but following the bus.

710
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: If you're in a car following the bus and your

711
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: henchman on the bus, says he just got off to

712
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: see us stop. That's true. Yeah, if I was going

713
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 1: to go out, I'm gonna have a pretty pretty healthy

714
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: sized team, because I would think that they would use

715
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: weapons that we're not just their hands. Because the guy,

716
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: unless you've dragged him really well. I don't think we

717
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: mentioned it before he got into wrestling. He was in

718
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: a martial arts big time by. He's a big, strong guy.

719
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: He's been doing this for twenty years. That means he's

720
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: he's very muscular, he knows how to handle himself. He

721
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: fights for a living, well kind of, but he does

722
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: physical work for a living. He's a big guy. It's

723
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: not as if I as a scrawny forty year old

724
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: guy with a pot belly. He's gonna run up to

725
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: him and yell at him, and he's really cool, scared

726
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: of you. I'm sorry, he's you going to look at

727
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: me and smack me in the head probably and I'm

728
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: going to have a concussion. So here's another question. We

729
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: said it was dry season, but there was this kind

730
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: of pond area the shore around this dry or this

731
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: pond area. Was it dry or was it wet. It's

732
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: a very good question. There's only two images that I

733
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: could find. Those images seemed to indicate that it was

734
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: kind of a clayish riverbed, and that right up against

735
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: the water it is soppy clay, and then outside of

736
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: that it's kind of hard. Okay, Yeah, that answers. So

737
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: there should be footprints the hard dirt, it's easy to

738
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 1: get rid of footprints. Clay less wet clay, it's hard,

739
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: very hard to get rid of them. Yeah. But then again,

740
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: if they are footprints there, that's not that's not necessarily

741
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,399
Speaker 1: a shocker anyway, that's true. And also there are enough

742
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: people out searching that there's nothing to say that the

743
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,879
Speaker 1: scene wasn't swamped right, and that the first person who

744
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: was there didn't say and I noticed there were a

745
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,919
Speaker 1: lot of footprints around, they would just be like, oh

746
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: my god, we found him, and everyone could rominate come

747
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: running and say oh we found him, and then yeah,

748
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: next thing, you know that that's when whenever I murder

749
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: somebody that way, I always break several sets of shoes

750
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: along so I can leave a kind of footprints. Yeah,

751
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: that's where my shoes have been going. He does have

752
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: small feet, he does you have big feet? One of

753
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 1: the two. Yeah, Um, let's let's go on the next theory,

754
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: which is that he drowned due to his panic attack

755
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: or psychosis which was caused by his use of steroids. Okay,

756
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: say this again. We don't know that he was on steroids,

757
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: but there is so much freaking talk about it that

758
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: you can't you can't ignorg. Well, it occurs to me

759
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: that it is totally possible, even probable, that the medical

760
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: examiner came back and said yet he drowned. Um, he

761
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 1: was on a lot of steroids and had a lot

762
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: of co and a lot of other things, and the

763
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: family said, cool, he drowned. You know, you wouldn't necessarily

764
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: then publicized, and he was on tons of drugs and

765
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: he did to himself. He would probably downplay that as

766
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: much as possible and just stayed for for his dignity.

767
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: What were the results of of the toxicology report? If

768
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: one was done, That's a very good question, Joe. I

769
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: never found that because I don't believe it was ever publicized.

770
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. It could have been done. But

771
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: let's let's back this train up for a second. Though

772
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: we say one must have been done, we don't know

773
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: what the standard practice is in this rural, this small area.

774
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to sound like a jerk who is

775
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: belittling the medical practitioners in Mexico by any way or means.

776
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: But we also don't know that based on their funding,

777
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: what what what is their resources? What do they start

778
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: with it? They go, uh, well, the easy thing is,

779
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: let's let's open him up. Oh look waters everywhere? Done deal?

780
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: Uh there, Yeah, it's easy. I mean, we don't know

781
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: and I don't know that, and I don't want to

782
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: put any you know, anything on anybody. But as far

783
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: as I know, that wasn't done. But let's continue to

784
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: run down the steroids line because I got ahold of

785
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: some of our experts and there's a lot of conflicting

786
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: information about the psychological effects of anabolic steroids. Some of

787
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: that stuff about royd rage is, uh it's a little inflated,

788
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: a little bit a little bit inflated. I mean it's

789
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: hard because it's you can't really study it. That's a

790
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: good point. And yeah, so here's the deal on their

791
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 1: own anabolic steroids, which for anybody who doesn't know, that's

792
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,720
Speaker 1: the thing that guys take to pump themselves up, pomp

793
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: you off, we're going to pomp you up exactly, all right.

794
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: These are the things that people take to get big,

795
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: but they do have the potential to cause behavioral changes.

796
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: Uh And and these behavioral changes don't come on suddenly.

797
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: There are things that build up over time the side effects.

798
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 1: According to the studies, though, these behavioral side effects only

799
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 1: occur in two to three percent of users. But there's

800
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: a couple of things to point out about the studies.

801
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: The first of which is that they presume and in

802
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: the studies, the users are only using one kind of steroid. Well,

803
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: it turns out guys who are juicing use multiple types

804
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: at once, and they do what's called pyramiding, where they

805
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: will go in a let's say it's a twelve week rotation,

806
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: so they'll build up for six weeks and taper off

807
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: for six weeks, but two weeks later they'll start another

808
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: kind of steroid. So they're constantly in this cycle with

809
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: multiple kinds at once. Well, in the studies, because their

810
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: clinical studies, they can't do that. That's one thing that's

811
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: not factored in. The Other thing about the studies is

812
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:16,720
Speaker 1: that they eliminate people who have a potential psychological issue

813
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: like a pre existing one. Yes, yeah, you want blank

814
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: slates case study, but people who do that stuff don't

815
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: aren't blank slates. Yeah, the daring lies and of the problem.

816
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: But Obismo didn't have a history of psychiatric problems, not

817
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: that we know of, no, But I mean the other

818
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 1: thing that you don't really necessarily take into considerations studies

819
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: like this, Right, Abismo Negro probably had like a couple

820
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: of concussions. Right, there was probably a little bit of

821
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: that sort of thing going on, And we know now

822
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: from a lot of studies that are being done in

823
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: America that that can have profound, prolonged and also delayed

824
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: effects on your brain and the way that it works.

825
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: And so you're also doing steroids on top of that,

826
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: and then those things can just systematically get worse and

827
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: worse and worse. And snorts about a half pound of

828
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: cocaine on top of steroids maybe, and then you're just done.

829
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,959
Speaker 1: The cocaine is okay, So let's let's take the coke

830
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: out of the situation. And this theory is not so

831
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: much centered in the cocaine, but just that let's say

832
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: he's on he's at the peak of a pyramid of

833
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: a cycle of his his steroid use that could have

834
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 1: been enough to just push him over the edge. So

835
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: then all of this psyche, it all builds up to

836
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: this psychosis where he suddenly has this breakdown on the bus.

837
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: The only thing that kind of lends itself possibly to

838
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: indicate that this could be right, is that I said

839
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: before he was at a match on the sixteenth, because

840
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: he had been at the King of King's match on

841
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: the or the fifteenth, whichever it was, and he got

842
00:49:58,280 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: knocked out in the first round and then goes to

843
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: this other match, which was sounded like it was kind

844
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 1: of a house match or a town match. I don't

845
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: you know, it was just kind of a local event,

846
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: but he was booked for it. He was just um

847
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: despondent is the phrase that I saw used. He was

848
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: not happy. He was complaining to the other wrestlers. Now

849
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: maybe that's I'm not getting used enough. They're leaving me

850
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: out because I'm always missing my matches. I mean, I

851
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: don't know what it is, but people have pointed out

852
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: and say, well, his behavior was he was on kind

853
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: of a downward trend and was about to break. Well, yeah,

854
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: he wasn't. He was kind of a downward train. There

855
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: you know. So, Yeah, I would be depressed if I

856
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: were him too. Yeah. And so if you follow the

857
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: final the finality of this, it says that he had

858
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 1: his break. This is, of course, because it's due to

859
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,919
Speaker 1: the steroids. Steroids caused the break. He then gets off

860
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: of the bus. He is completely unaware of his surroundings

861
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 1: and either wanders into the water and is so aware

862
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: that he aspirates water and drowns, or we've said this before.

863
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: The water is shallow, like waist deep shallow. It's entirely

864
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 1: possible that he was on the bridge. He wanders over

865
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: the edge of the bridge and falls over the rail.

866
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: How how high was the bridge? Though? I would say

867
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: that that bridge was twenty high? Joe, what is that meters?

868
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: By the way, that's sweat three? I would uh, I mean,

869
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 1: I guess I would say that if you found face

870
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: first off of something like that, you your face would

871
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: be pretty mashed up. That'd be something I actually I

872
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time thinking about this. Let's say

873
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: he falls off the railing and he lands uh anywhere

874
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 1: that is not head first, so he is in a

875
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: prone position when he hits he's bruising lots of lots

876
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 1: of outward damage will happen from a fall like that,

877
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: but not enough that I think that if he's been

878
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,439
Speaker 1: soaking in the drink for a day, it's gonna be

879
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: super noticeable. And my point is that he would be

880
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: stunned and then drowned. That's that's I You're right, there

881
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: should be outward signs, but there's a whole bunch of

882
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: details of outward signs that we have no record. I'm

883
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: kind of I'm kind of doubting. And they fell off

884
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: the bridge though, because I don't know what the standards

885
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: are for railings in Mexico, but I assume you're kind

886
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 1: of similar to what we have here. Oh yeah, No,

887
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: it's it's a roadsign bridge. It's about Waiste High. I

888
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: mean I've seen. I was on Google Maps, I was

889
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: pulling a Joe. I was on Google Maps do and

890
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: street View, and I drove across that bridge and it's

891
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: about Waist High. Yeah, so if you seriously want to

892
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: get over that, you're gonna probably do it deliberately. You're

893
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: not just gonna trip and fall off, well you might well.

894
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: The one thing. The other thing I do want to

895
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: just point out real quick here is I don't know

896
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: if you guys have seen this video or not, because

897
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: I know we're going to talk about more. He was

898
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,040
Speaker 1: just panicking and drowned theories. There's this video of this

899
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: little kid who I don't know, I remember where he is,

900
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: but he's like probably five or six years old, and

901
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: he's clinging to a rope, floating on his back like

902
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 1: crying because he thinks he's going to drown until suddenly

903
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 1: his older sister or mom or somebody comes over and

904
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:17,879
Speaker 1: just kind of pushes his legs down and it turns

905
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: out it's been like lower than waist deep this water

906
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 1: the entire time. But he was so sure, and I've

907
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: seen this happen to other people too. You sometimes you

908
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: get so sure that you're drowning, you just panic and

909
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: don't do anything actually helpful. You're just thinking you're drowning, right,

910
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,240
Speaker 1: you just seize up, or you start flailing around thinking,

911
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm drowning because my face is covered

912
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 1: in water, without thinking my back is dry though, or

913
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 1: I could stand up. You know, if you're if you're

914
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: entirely submerged, your head is entirely submerged, You're probably just

915
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 1: going to think I'm drowning. And if you're already having

916
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 1: a panic attack or some kind of mental break, you're

917
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: probably not going to be able to do anything helpful.

918
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: So do you want to bring that up a little bit? Yeah,

919
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: that's as we talked about that in saying that, Yeah,

920
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: it's only waist deep, but it's still waist deep, and

921
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,439
Speaker 1: that's enough to submerge your head fully. So and and

922
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: and I also, I'm gonna move a theory that was

923
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: at the end of this. I'm gonna actually shuttle this forward.

924
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about this now, which is that let's

925
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: take the psychological break out of it. Okay, it's entirely possible.

926
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 1: So I can't explain why he got off the bridge

927
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: or off of the bus. Excuse me, I can't explain

928
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: why he got off the bus. But when I talk

929
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: about the fall bit, it's entirely possible. He's in the dark.

930
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: It's one thirty in the morning. He can't see a

931
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: damn thing. It's actually well passed one by the time

932
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: he actually fell into that hole and round probably. Okay,

933
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: so it's two in the morning, three in the morning something.

934
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: It's pitch blackout, he can't see crap, and so the

935
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: whole he fell over the railing. He could have literally

936
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 1: been walking. Have you ever walked into a wall in

937
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 1: the dark and had no idea it was there. He

938
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: could have been walking and suddenly just pitched over the

939
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: rail and went down because he had no idea where

940
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: he was. It's entirely possible. Do I think that's what happened.

941
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 1: But because we're bringing this up there, and and the

942
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: water line below the bridge, the lip of the bridge

943
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 1: where he was found, it's not a straight line. It's

944
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,439
Speaker 1: kind of an undulating shape. So he would have either

945
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: if he fell off the top of the bridge, he

946
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: would have either a hit the water or be hit

947
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 1: the ground. And I'm pretty sure he didn't hit the

948
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: ground because there's no impression of his body in the shore.

949
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: And also would be really hard for him to hit

950
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: hard enough to bounce into the water, which makes me

951
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: think that he would have hit the water, which again

952
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: brings me to he could have hit just right. We

953
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: talked about this all the time. The odds of this

954
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: are phenomenal, but it's possible. It's just right. Where does

955
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 1: it leave any outward signs? But it stuns him and

956
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: he drowns well, and Also, if you do a belly

957
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: flop on the water, it's gonna knock the wind out

958
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: and you're gonna suck in and you're gonna dry and

959
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: they draw a lot of water. And when you do that,

960
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: there's there's also that phenomenon which I experienced one time rafting.

961
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 1: And I don't know how cold that water was, but

962
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: when you hit really cold water, I can't imagine it

963
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: was cold, Joe. It was the dry season. This is March, right, Yeah,

964
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: and I suppose it wouldn't been that cold. It's not

965
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: freezing cold. Gasp reflex. It's just a gasp reflex because

966
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: you hit the water, get the water, or the wind

967
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: knocked out of you, or you get or you're so

968
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: stunned you just like out of it. And yeah, you know,

969
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: I I tend to think he just stumbled into it

970
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,839
Speaker 1: or maybe fell off the bridge myself. Yeah. Well, let's

971
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: let's keep going though, because we've I mean, we've talked

972
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: about this enough so far, but we got more theories. Okay,

973
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 1: next theory is that this is and this is related

974
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 1: very similar to the last one. Is that the one

975
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: before last? Yeah, yeah, because I did, I moved one up.

976
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: He drowned. His panic attack or psychosis, whichever it is,

977
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: was caused by actually not steroids, but steroid withdrawal, because

978
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: one of our experts that I was talking with was

979
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 1: bringing up the fact that, yeah, while the psychosis can happen,

980
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: it actually is a little more prevalent when somebody goes

981
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: called turkey. That's the problem is you just suddenly get

982
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: off the sauce and um, that might have been what

983
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: caused him to go office trolley as they say, and

984
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: then get off the bus, be so confused, and whatever

985
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: happens for him to be end up in the water happens.

986
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: Is it steroid withdraw What? What withdraws that that makes

987
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: you really thirsty? Do you know from water? I think

988
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: like that you need water, Yeah, if you haven't had

989
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: water for a couple of days. Why they're like there

990
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: are a certain drug withdraws there are. I'm just wondering

991
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: if maybe like he was going to withdrawal of some

992
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: kind and I saw this little thing of water and

993
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: thought I will drink from that, but was so messed

994
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: up he just went in head first. I don't know.

995
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: I mean when he's when he's when he's drowning. Technically,

996
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 1: and technically, um, but we're gonna go to the next one,

997
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: which is very similar again, which is that his panic

998
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 1: attack or psychosis was caused by none other in cocaine,

999
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: because like we talked about, he seems to have really

1000
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,919
Speaker 1: enjoyed it, and the this is a list of side

1001
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: effects that I found. The short term side effects of

1002
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: cocaine are anxiety, paranoia, panic, and some other forms of psychosis.

1003
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: And because he's a user of it, he likes it,

1004
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: he would fall into the category of long term effects.

1005
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: Those would be auditory and tactile hallucinations other known otherwise

1006
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: known as hearing things and feeling things on your skin.

1007
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: That's a common description, disorientation, delirium, and confusion. So coke bender,

1008
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: jump off bus, fall off bridge, end up in water

1009
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: is kind of the short of what this one is.

1010
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: He was probably lost to which they believe me. It

1011
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: is kind of a panicky feeling, right yeah, yeah, in

1012
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 1: in the very dark of night, and you know, we

1013
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: had a cell phone, but we don't know if it

1014
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: had a good flash on it for him to use.

1015
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so he probably did. He might have had

1016
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:33,919
Speaker 1: a smartphone that he might have had a smart phone.

1017
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: He might not. Yeah, we don't know that for sure.

1018
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: Moving on again, we have one last theory, which I

1019
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 1: actually think personally I find to be my preferred theory,

1020
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 1: which is that he drowned or fell due to a

1021
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: stroke or a heart attacks not unusual if you've been

1022
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: doing a lot of coke. Heart attacks are not uncommon.

1023
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: It's also not unknown or unprecedented when you've been doing steroids,

1024
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: because steroids um are known to cause people to have

1025
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: strokes and heart attacks. And this isn't necessarily for heavy users.

1026
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: This is just like casual users who work it into

1027
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: their workout routine and suddenly have it. It just they

1028
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: just suddenly, with no signs previously have a stroke, have

1029
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: a heart attack because they decided they were gonna juice

1030
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: and this happens. By the way, did either of you

1031
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: look up the slang for steroids? No, what slang is that?

1032
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: The names that it gets this is the best thing ever.

1033
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: So I've said it a couple of its juicing, but

1034
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: they call it juicing Jim Candy, Pumpers, Roid's stackers, and

1035
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: are you ready for it? Arnold's that's my favorite. But

1036
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: the swart Sky the short skis are no own for

1037
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: causing heart attacks and for causing strokes. So it could

1038
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 1: have been he's on the or maybe it was the coke.

1039
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: He's on the bus, he's in the beginning of a

1040
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: heart attack or a stroke, which is known to be

1041
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: a state of delirium. It's not just delirium, it's also

1042
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 1: causes you to be panicked and uncomfortable, yes, like very uncomfortable,

1043
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: and also oftentimes like hot, and you try to escape

1044
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 1: all of the situations that you're in, pointing at her

1045
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: with the yes finger. Yeah, that's the S finger, you know,

1046
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: both of those. And again it's it doesn't necessarily have

1047
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: to be drug induced. It could have been that it

1048
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: was just a blood clot from an injury. It could

1049
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: be that he just lived a hard lifestyle. It could

1050
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 1: be that he was genetically predispositions disciposed to that, disposed

1051
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 1: to that maybe. But I mean, if it was a

1052
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: small stroke and all it did was really incapacitate him

1053
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: for enough time that he fell into water and also drowned,

1054
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: it's not unreasonable to assume that the emmy would miss

1055
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: something like that. In addition to that, also heard and

1056
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: a cursory medical examination or a cursory yeah, if you

1057
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: if you see water in the lungs, you're not going

1058
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: to also do an extensive exam of the heart and

1059
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: brain to see if they had a heart attack or

1060
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: blood clots or damage. Yet, you know, I can understand

1061
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 1: why somebody would immediately jump to the drowning conclusion. But

1062
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: the thing about it was is he was a strong guy.

1063
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say he was totally healthy, but

1064
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: he's probably fairly healthy. Part with the he fell in

1065
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 1: the mud out and couldn't get out, and so what

1066
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: would incapacitate somebody. We'll gonna be a heart attack, thank you.

1067
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 1: That's why I look at something else. It's got to

1068
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: have debilitated him, because if you have a stroker, you're

1069
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 1: in the throes of a heart attack, your body is

1070
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: not going to respond. And as I said before, if

1071
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: you're even partially in the water, you're going to breathe

1072
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: it in, then you're going to drown it. Also, those

1073
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 1: also I able way to go maybe lend a little

1074
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 1: more credence to the fact that he did try to

1075
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: contact his wife. You know, the other theories that we've

1076
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: talked about, we say he was hallucinating, he was in

1077
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: a delirium, but people who are having these really huge

1078
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: psychotic breaks don't necessarily text their significant other and say

1079
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: I'm lost in the middle of the woods. You probably

1080
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: don't contact them, or you say don't you think about it?

1081
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 1: Or you say you know the mushrooms are coming for me,

1082
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: or like something right. I mean, you're not gonna say

1083
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,919
Speaker 1: very calmly, hey, I'm lost in the woods. And Grant said,

1084
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 1: I haven't seen the text, so I don't. I don't

1085
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: know exactly what his demeanor was, but it would also

1086
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 1: lead credence to you know, a heart attack or something

1087
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: where you say, okay, I was just getting out and

1088
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 1: this happened, or you maybe he had a heart attack

1089
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: and then a stroke. The the tone is stripped away.

1090
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 1: That's why simple text messages can cause giant controversy because

1091
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: of the fact that you don't know which way they're

1092
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: meant to go or and they don't. I am lost

1093
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 1: does not say angrily I'm lost or panically who I mean?

1094
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:17,439
Speaker 1: That doesn't come through. But none of those are hallucinatory reaction. True,

1095
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 1: that is a strange thing. I mean, you know, here

1096
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 1: does this looney thing, which is get off the bus,

1097
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 1: and he does a rational thing which to send a

1098
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: text to his wife. Yeah, so I don't know if

1099
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 1: he was fading any hut or what I mean. Obviously,

1100
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: if he was having a stroke or having something that's

1101
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 1: going wrong, staying on the bus and telling the driver

1102
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: to go faster probably would have been a better solution.

1103
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: That was another four to six hours to his destination,

1104
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 1: or tell him the turn around. Oh you're saying, go

1105
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: faster so I can get to help. Yeah, okay, it's

1106
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: only a fifty four minute drive or something bad According

1107
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: to Google, which is probably on a bus, that's probably

1108
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: like an hour and something. Um drive from uh point

1109
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: A to point B in the town El Rose, Ario

1110
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 1: or wherever it was close to it was. It's not

1111
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: that long, so they were pretty dang close. It would

1112
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: have been easy for him to say, I think something's

1113
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: wrong with me, get me a doctor. But it could have.

1114
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 1: All My point was he may have said, oh my god,

1115
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 1: something's wrong. Get me to Mexico City now, is the

1116
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 1: way I was saying. So when Joe says make the

1117
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: bust go faster, say he's no Ail Rosarios there, he

1118
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: may not realize. But usually you would say I don't

1119
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 1: feel good, I need a doctor and they would just

1120
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: find a hospital or something. Right. As a good bus driver,

1121
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: you wouldn't just say okay, cool, get off right here, Yeah,

1122
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: that's here. Here's my catchphrase, rational thinking. If he but

1123
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:43,919
Speaker 1: that's I'm on your side on that. But I think

1124
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: you know, I I know enough about first aid and

1125
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: what people go through first aid care in general, emergency care,

1126
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 1: and what people go through with heart attacks, with strokes,

1127
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: with things of that nature, and the reaction is escape,

1128
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: just get out. That's one of the things they tell

1129
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: you to look for in situations like that is if

1130
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 1: someone's nervous and agitated, it's a huge sign that something

1131
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: going wrong inside their body and that you should get

1132
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: them emergency care as soon as possible or administered. So again,

1133
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,439
Speaker 1: so he stumbles around the darkness, falls into a mud

1134
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 1: puddle and having a heart attack stroke dies. That's it?

1135
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 1: Are we in Are we in consensus? Here? My I'm

1136
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: not locked into what caused it. I think that he

1137
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: had either a stroke or a heart attack, but I

1138
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 1: don't know what caused him to end up in the water.

1139
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 1: That's my problem is that I see one of those

1140
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 1: as leading him there, but I don't know why it

1141
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: came about. And and maybe it is just one of

1142
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: those damn random things. But that that's so, I don't

1143
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: know that we're in consensus because I'm I'm not even

1144
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: settled or not even in consensus with yourself. No, No,

1145
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 1: as as usual. Yeah that I said to his family.

1146
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: Ever raised a stink about this with anybody raising his suspicions? No, No,

1147
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 1: I mean his his wife. You know. They she had

1148
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 1: him cremated, They had a ceremony. There was a bajillion

1149
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 1: luchadors there. Black Abyss. His career kind of ended after that.

1150
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: He tried to go on and take over the mantle

1151
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: of a bismol negro. That didn't go on. He was

1152
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: going to go as a bismol negro too. That didn't work,

1153
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 1: Like I mean, but that was it. I mean, there's

1154
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: this whole weird thing in the luchador society, but she

1155
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 1: just she stepped away from it, as at least from

1156
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: the reporting side of what's been reported. Well, I mean

1157
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: that does lead credence to the fact that maybe there

1158
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 1: was something additional in the report, in the autopsy report,

1159
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: that they're just not making public, which would be understandable. Yeah, okay,

1160
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 1: well there is that. So let's give everybody the the

1161
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: administrative details that they need to know, which is that

1162
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: this uh this episode and all other episodes are available

1163
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: on our website. We will of course have links to

1164
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 1: some of the research on this story. I will let

1165
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 1: everybody know that if you're going to do additional research,

1166
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 1: make sure you've got a browser that translates, because a

1167
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:19,800
Speaker 1: lot of this is in Spanish, but you can. I

1168
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 1: will try and put some of the English versions on

1169
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:27,639
Speaker 1: our website. Website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. By

1170
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: the way, for folks who have not yet noticed, we

1171
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: don't have comments on the website anymore. That's unfortunately because

1172
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: it was being abused. We had to chuck that down,

1173
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 1: which because we had many ready thoughtful, good conversations, but

1174
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 1: as I've said before and I'll say again, it was

1175
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 1: ruined by a few. For the many. We are always

1176
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:55,639
Speaker 1: available for for streaming or downloads on iTunes, So if

1177
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 1: you are user of iTunes, go ahead and subscribe to

1178
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 1: the show there. You can also go ahead and leave

1179
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 1: us a comment and a rating. If you do so,

1180
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 1: please leave us a good one. If you've got a concern,

1181
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 1: get a hold of us, because we can't address those

1182
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: concerns when you're doing it on iTunes. We're on a

1183
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 1: b jillion streaming services, so whichever one you use, we're

1184
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 1: probably on it. And if you found us, that's awesome.

1185
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: I don't know how they work, if you can comment

1186
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 1: or rate or anything like that. They're all different. We

1187
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 1: are on the social media, so we is on the

1188
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: Facebook and the Facebook page and the Facebook group. We

1189
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 1: have both of those who like and join coming on

1190
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,719
Speaker 1: the discussions right time. And if you wanted to comment

1191
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 1: on our website but you can't now, you can still

1192
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 1: comment on Facebook you can't. You can also comment very

1193
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 1: briefly on Twitter. We have the Twitter account which is

1194
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways without the G in the middle. Or we

1195
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: also have the subreddit which does have conversations starting based

1196
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: on each episode and other stuff. Uh So, those are

1197
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 1: totally available to you. If you want to talk to

1198
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: us directly, go ahead and send us an email. Email

1199
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:13,759
Speaker 1: address is Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. We

1200
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: always respond to everybody, sometimes not as quickly as we like,

1201
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,600
Speaker 1: but we always respond to everybody. Uh So, that is

1202
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: an option for support of the show. We have a

1203
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,759
Speaker 1: couple of different ways on the website. There is buttons

1204
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:28,559
Speaker 1: on the right hand side, one of which is for

1205
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 1: PayPal if you want to do a one time donation

1206
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 1: or if you would like to get some merchandise, We've

1207
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 1: got merchandise available their shirts, phone cases, mugs. Still need

1208
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 1: to get a coffee mug, damnit um. And we also

1209
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 1: have Patreon, so Patreon dot com slash thinking sideways. Patreon

1210
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 1: is a recurring donation, so it's based on per episode

1211
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 1: how much you want to give, So keep that in

1212
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: mind if you do want to do that, so that

1213
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 1: you sign up and don't say I'm gonna give ten

1214
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 1: bucks because that's ten bucks per episode. We love that,

1215
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 1: but we want you to know ahead of time. Yeah,

1216
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: you should be careful about please don't. I would feel

1217
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:09,639
Speaker 1: really bad about that. Absolutely pledged fifty bucks and then

1218
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 1: you get your bill dollars. Oh my god, I don't

1219
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 1: have anything else. You guys got anything else? I let me, thank,

1220
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: let me, thank, let me thank All right, talk you

1221
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: guys later. Bye brother