1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Labrega is back this season. 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 2: We're spending time with the people and symbols that represent 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 2: Puerto Rico. 4 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 3: We're proud Borriquas and what does that mean? 5 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: And we're still terrified. 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: We're telling stories about champions from a place worth fighting for, 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 2: stories that will inspire you no matter where you're from. Come, okay, okay, Wow, 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: this is La Brega Campeions. Listen early and ad free 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 2: with fublutoplus fut. 10 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: It's been more than a year since President Donald Trump 11 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: took office for a second term. 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 4: For American citizens, January twentieth, twenty twenty five is Liberation Day. 13 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: He's wasted no time in enacting his agenda. 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: Illegal border crossings are at historic lows, deportations are climbing 15 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 2: a new Arris. 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: Avenues for legal immigration have been shut down on this 17 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: Independence Day. 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 5: President Trump's self proclaimed Big Beautiful Bill is now law. 19 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: Two thousand agents are on the ground in Minnesota for 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: what they say is the biggest immigration enforcement operation ever. 21 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: Trump touted his achievements Tuesday night at the State of 22 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: the Union, addressed to the country, You've. 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 6: Seen nothing yet, We're going to do better and better 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 6: and better. 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: This is the Golden Age of America. Almost two hours 26 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: of a lot of bluster. 27 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 4: Today, our border is secure, our spirit is restored, the 28 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 4: roaring economy is roaring like never before. 29 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: And a fair amount of bladder. 30 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 6: Our country is winning again. 31 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 5: In fact, we're winning so much that we really don't 32 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 5: know what to. 33 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: Do about it and too many lives. But where does 34 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: the country actually stand? To answer that question, we got 35 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: some of our friends together, friends of our show, to 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: help go through some of the facts, and we're going 37 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: to focus on immigration, the economy, and the state of 38 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: our democracy. From Futuro Media, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria 39 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: in Josa. Today we bring you our own state of 40 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: the Union. We look at what Trump has built and 41 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: dismantled during his second term in office, and we look 42 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: towards the future, asking what twenty twenty six has in 43 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: store for our communities and the country. With me today 44 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 1: is Jasmine guards. She covers immigration for NPR Minida de 45 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: nue Well Jasmine Mona. Also with us is Kimberly Adams. 46 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: Kimberly is a host, senior correspondent and senior editor at 47 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: Marketplace or lat Kimberly Ola and last, but definitely not 48 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: least is Jason Stanley. He's an expert on fascism and 49 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: the author of his latest book, Erasing History, How fascists 50 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: rewrite the past to control the future. He's my former 51 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 1: neighbor in Harlem who has moved to Canada. Welcome to Latino, USA, Jason. 52 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 6: Thank you very much, Maria. 53 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to get to our first quick icebreaker, 54 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: not too many words. How would you describe the state 55 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: of the Union. We're going to start with you, Kimberly. 56 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: You know you mentioned blather and bluster at the top. 57 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: I would add to that blame, especially when it comes 58 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: to the economy. So much of what the President said 59 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: last night about what's going on in the economy revolved 60 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: around blame, blaming Democrats for the type of economy he 61 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: claims to have inherited, blaming immigrants, blaming other countries for 62 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: the situation that's going on with trade, and so particularly 63 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to the economic issues that came up 64 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: last night, there was a lot of blame. 65 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 7: Jasmine a couple of words, I think, Omission. I think 66 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 7: to me, what was most interesting and telling about what 67 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 7: Trump said was actually what he did say. He did 68 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 7: not mention Minneapolis, even as he listed other cities and 69 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 7: states he's gone into, and he didn't mention ICE or 70 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 7: ICE agents. And I think those emissions speak to an 71 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 7: understanding on the administration's part about how people are feeling 72 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 7: right now about ICE and immigration enforcement. 73 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: Jason, in a couple of words, what's your sense of 74 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,119 Speaker 1: the state of the union fascism? 75 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 4: That was very clear with the comments about immigrants and Somalians. 76 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 4: I think it was summed up by my ten year 77 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 4: old who fell asleep listening to it with me or 78 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 4: watching it, where he woke up this morning he said, 79 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 4: last thing I remember hearing is about little girls being 80 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 4: cut apart by immigrants or something like that. And these 81 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 4: are ten year olds hearing this, and these are the 82 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 4: memories they're going to grow. 83 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: Up with, so Jasmine, as you said, Trump has made immigration, frankly, 84 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: since twenty fifteen his biggest issue. As of February seventh 85 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: of this year, there's more than sixty eight thousand people 86 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: being held in immigrant detention. The majority of the detainees 87 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: do not have any criminal convictions, and we know now 88 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: that ICE and this administration is trying to acquire warehouses 89 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: in order to hold immigrants. So what's your sense of 90 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: what these numbers tell us about Trump's plan on immigration, 91 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: but what it also means for the state of the 92 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: Union in a year from now. 93 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 7: I think we are having this tectonic shift in which 94 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 7: we are transitioning to a new economy, and that is 95 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 7: the economy of immigrant detention, right. I mean that's always existed, 96 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 7: of course, but I think what we're seeing is like 97 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 7: this total explosion of that industry. And the same way 98 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 7: we talk about mass incarceration or we talk about the 99 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 7: military industrial complex. There's a lot of money to be 100 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 7: made off of these warehouses. That's the reality. There are 101 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 7: people who are getting very wealthy off of this. And 102 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 7: like you said, there's around seventy thousand people who are 103 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 7: in detention. That is a historically high number. Just for reference, 104 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 7: when Trump took office in twenty twenty five, there were 105 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 7: around forty thousand people in immigration detention. Now, I was 106 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 7: also looking at the number of deportations, and the number 107 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 7: of deportations is actually not as high as it was 108 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 7: during Obama and during the last years of Biden, when 109 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 7: a lot of people were showing up at the border. 110 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 7: And what that tells me is there's on the one hand, 111 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 7: not as many deportations, and on the other hand, a 112 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 7: historic number of people in detention. Increasingly, we're seeing elderly, increasingly, 113 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 7: we're seeing children, and so I think we are transitioning 114 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 7: into this new reality in which we have not just 115 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 7: mass incarceration, mass immigrant detention. 116 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: Kimberly, let's talk about the economy. Trump loves to say 117 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: that the economy is doing great, that inflation is down, 118 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: that gas prices are down, that jobs are up. What's 119 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: the truth, Kimberly. 120 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 8: You know, it's such a struggle to try to fact 121 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 8: check Trump on the economy because obviously there are things 122 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 8: that he says that are just completely untrue. You know, 123 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 8: when it comes to like the amount of investment in 124 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 8: the United States since his administration started. What he said 125 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 8: about that last night was not true. What he says 126 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 8: about gas prices. He said that in most of the 127 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 8: country gas prices were below two fifty. That's not true. 128 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 8: It's only that case in a few places. Gas prices 129 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 8: are down a little bit, but not that low. And 130 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 8: so parts of the economy are doing great. If you're 131 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 8: invested in the stock market, you're seeing lots of gains. 132 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 8: If you own property, that you got in at a 133 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 8: good two and a half percent interest rate, you're probably 134 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 8: sitting pretty And if you happen to be in a 135 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 8: higher tax bracket, especially if you're on the corporate side 136 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 8: of things or a business owner, you're probably going to 137 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 8: be doing better as a result of some of the 138 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 8: changes from the GOP signature tax and spending law the 139 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 8: passed last year. But the vast majority of Americans aren't 140 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 8: feeling that. They're feeling the fact that prices overall are 141 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 8: up like twenty five percent over the last five years, 142 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 8: higher health care costs, higher food costs, higher electricity costs. 143 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 8: Even though the unemployment rate is low, there's not a 144 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 8: lot of jobs being added, and so they're probably feeling like, 145 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 8: even if they don't like their job, they can't leave 146 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 8: it because more than twenty five percent, more than one 147 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 8: in four people who are out of work right now 148 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 8: have been out of work for six months or longer. 149 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 8: And I think all of this contributes to a state 150 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 8: of just precariousness for a lot of Americans. And this 151 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 8: affordability thing that Trump did not want to talk about 152 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 8: last night, this goods to the omission thing that Jasmine 153 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 8: was mentioning, but it is what's on people's minds. 154 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: So Jason, from your expertise of understanding authoritarianism and fascism, 155 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: talk about what you saw during the State of the Union. 156 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 4: I just saw a classic fascist performance, the white supremacy 157 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 4: of this regime. I mean, it's as explicit as you 158 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 4: can get, and the denial is getting harder and harder. 159 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 4: I've been pointing out that trumpsm is fascism since twenty sixteen, 160 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 4: twenty eighteen book on it, and people regarded it as insane. 161 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 4: Now you're seeing mainstream publications saying, yes, it's fascism. Now 162 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 4: we have concentration camps. These are warehouses, are concentration camps. 163 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 4: It's an imitation of Nixon when Nixon built prisons before 164 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 4: they were filled. So that is exactly what we're seeing now. 165 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 4: That is a racial fascism of the US variety, what 166 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 4: we now have in addition to the racial fascism that 167 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 4: so influenced the Nazis. I hate to say this, but 168 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 4: people should read mind cuff. It's all about immigration. Immigration's 169 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 4: a central theme. Jews are supposed to have brought in 170 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 4: black Senegalese soldiers to pollute the blood of the nature. 171 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 6: So we're seeing all the. 172 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 4: Nazi tropes, not just the Italian fascist tropes, the Nazi tropes. 173 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 4: But we have now that mirrors the classic fascist regimes 174 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 4: of the mid twentieth century is a fur prin seat. 175 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 6: We have a cult of the leader. 176 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 4: Someone who thirty five to forty percent of the nation 177 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 4: will die for, and that's mid century fascism. We have 178 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 4: the white supremacy of the US that Hitler praises in 179 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 4: Mine Cop Hitler praises the immigration laws of the United States, 180 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 4: and of course the Nazi racial laws. The Nuremberg laws 181 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 4: that took my father's citizenship away are based on the 182 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 4: Jim Crow laws. 183 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 6: I grew up in a family, you know. 184 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 4: My father set out his clothing on his bed and 185 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 4: set as alarm clock for three am every night in 186 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 4: case the knock came on the door. Well, now we 187 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 4: have all of that in the United States. Let's be clear. 188 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 4: We have immigrants hiding in houses, we have children learning 189 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 4: what to do when the knock came on the door, 190 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 4: and I grew up in that household. 191 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: Coming up on let you know us saying a look 192 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: at the effect that the Trump administration has had on 193 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: the country and its people. Then what his next three 194 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: years might look like. 195 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 4: You say, Maria, that you're concerned about your citizenship being told. 196 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 6: You should be concerned. 197 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 3: Stay with us, Hey, listeners. I'm say Jones. 198 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 5: And I'm Zach Stafford, and we are the hosts of 199 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 5: a podcast called Vichek where we make sense of what's 200 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 5: going on in news, culture, entertainment, and more. 201 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 3: From thoughts on protest strategies to friendship breakups and trying 202 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 3: to figure out clothing trends or the economy. We check 203 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 3: the vibe of what's going on in the world and 204 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 3: how it all feels. It's like you and your best 205 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 3: use text chain come to life. 206 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 5: Join us for a Kikey every Wednesday and Friday. You 207 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 5: can listen to and follow vibe Check wherever you get 208 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 5: your podcasts. 209 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: It's Latino USA. I'm Maria Jojosam. I'm talking about the 210 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: consequences of Donald Trump's policies with Jasmine Gar's immigration correspondent 211 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: for NPR, Marketplace host and senior editor Kimberly Adams, and 212 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: Jason Stanley, author of How Fascism Works. Let's turn back 213 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: to our conversation. Okay, so, Jasmine, because of Donald Trump, 214 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: about one point six million people have already lost their 215 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: status in the country. What do we mean, whether it's 216 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: visa or temporary protective status. So help us understand this 217 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: broader immigration attacks no longer now just on people who 218 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: are undocumented, but people who actually have or had legal status, 219 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: including the threat of someone like me who became an 220 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: American citizen and that citizenship being potentially questioned and taken away. 221 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 7: You know, I think that the goalposts are moving and widening. 222 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 7: At first, the idea was that they were just going 223 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 7: to come for undocumented immigrants, right, that they were going 224 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 7: to come for criminals, for the bad guys. And now 225 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 7: we've moved way past that. And you know, it goes 226 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 7: back to what we've been talking about about this deportation 227 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 7: and detention machine. You have to keep it fed, and 228 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 7: so it keeps getting fed when you keep having people 229 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 7: that are disenfranchised. 230 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. 231 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 7: I was in Minnesota recently covering everything that was happening 232 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 7: in Minneapolis, and I spent time with this Russian family 233 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 7: who are asylum seekers. They told me, if we get 234 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 7: sent back to Russia, we could get fifteen years in prison, 235 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 7: sent to the home front killed. They are asylum seekers. 236 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 7: One day, the dad goes out to warm up his 237 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 7: car in the morning and he gets detained by ice agents. 238 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 7: There's no rhyme or reason to this on paper. This 239 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 7: family did everything right by the law, American asylum law, 240 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 7: presented themselves out of port of entry, requested asylum, have 241 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 7: been processing the asylum or in the immigration system, do 242 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 7: not have a criminal record, and the guy was taken 243 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 7: and possibly getting deported back to a war zone. 244 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: So Kimberly, let's follow up on the economics of this. 245 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: What is going to happen with the American economy with 246 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: the removal and deportations. 247 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 8: There are so many different ways this is showing up 248 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 8: in the economy. So first of all, I point out 249 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 8: that immigrants are more likely to start a business than 250 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 8: native born citizens, right, And so that's business formation that 251 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 8: we're losing, either because people are afraid, or because they 252 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 8: choose to self deport, or because they leave, or because 253 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 8: maybe they wanted to hire within their community and they're 254 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 8: worried about being rated whether their folks are documented or not. 255 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 8: That's the sort of higher part of the economy in 256 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 8: terms of small business formation. And then if you sort 257 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 8: of go to all the way to the other end, 258 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 8: there's sort of the things that you've probably heard a 259 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 8: lot about in the news about workers in the agricultural sector, 260 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 8: in restaurants, in the construction industry, where these are industries 261 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 8: that are really feeling it right now that their workforce 262 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 8: has been decimated, and even if their workers were here legally, 263 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 8: they are afraid to come to work anyway. And all 264 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 8: of this is serving to push folks out of the 265 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 8: more traditional structured safety net programs, which means that they're 266 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 8: going to be more reliant on emergency services, which raises 267 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 8: costs for everyone in healthcare, in food systems, and social 268 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 8: services when they all have ripple effects throughout the economy. 269 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: So, Jason, a year ago you were like, I'm leaving 270 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: my job at Yale. I am moving to Canada. So 271 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: help us to understand why you said this is the 272 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: moment to leave the country. And what about those of 273 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: us who are saying, I gotta stay. I'm going to 274 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: give it everything I possibly can, because I actually raised 275 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: my right hand to become an American citizen. 276 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, it makes sense for me to leave only if 277 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 4: I can do more good for American democracy in Canada 278 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 4: than I can in the United States. I knew there 279 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 4: would be immense pressure if I was in a US institution. 280 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 4: For example, you say, Maria that you're concerned about your 281 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 4: citizenship being pulled. 282 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 6: You should be concerned. 283 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 4: Because the Homeland Security has been tweeting and bragging about remigration. 284 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 6: Where does that come from? 285 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 4: It's the German alternative for Deutschland far right Fascist Party's 286 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 4: last campaign slogan. 287 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 6: Where does that come from? 288 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 4: It comes from the Austrian not neo Nazi, Martin Zeldner's. 289 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 6: Book rem Grazion. 290 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 4: And Forslaw, and in it he proposes yanking the citizenship 291 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 4: of non Arians. What's happening in the United States cannot 292 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 4: be disaggregated from what's happening in Europe, can't be disaggregated 293 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 4: from what's happening in Argentina. So the fascist right is 294 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 4: planning international Canada allows you to see that. And also 295 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 4: just this personal thing that I'll add, which is that 296 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 4: there's a certain distaste at being connected with a country 297 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 4: that is erecting concentration count. 298 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: So, Jason, can you talk about how one fights fascism 299 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: and authoritarianism as one single person in the United States 300 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: as opposed to this feeling of there's nothing we can do. 301 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm just going to stop watching the news. 302 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 4: Well, you have to understand that if you take the 303 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 4: self protection route and a view of children, your children 304 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 4: and your grandchildren will be embarrassed about you. They'll pretend 305 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 4: that you didn't do that. I've lived in Germany for 306 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 4: many years. I'm also a German citizen, and I understand 307 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 4: what that does to your soul. You are obligated right 308 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 4: now in the United States to fight fascism. If you're not, 309 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 4: you're complicit in the concentration camps they're building for immigrants. 310 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 4: It's totally explicit. There is no excuse. So people have 311 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 4: to realize that it's their souls that at stake. Do 312 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 4: you want your grandchildren to be ashamed of you? 313 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 8: If I can add to that, I think we are 314 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 8: seeing so many people find their ways to fight. I mean, 315 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 8: look at what happened in Minnesota and to the point 316 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 8: of these detention centers. There have been a ton of 317 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 8: communities that have rallied together and pushed back and actually 318 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 8: stopped these detention centers from being built in their community. 319 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 8: And I was talking to a friend of mine the 320 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 8: other day who just finished getting her taxes done right 321 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 8: and her tax preparer was telling her that many of 322 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 8: his clients who were undocumented, who previously had done their taxes, 323 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 8: were afraid of doing them because now the IRS is 324 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 8: turning over information to ICE, and so he is making 325 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 8: the decision to use his own address of his business 326 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 8: as the address for his clients so that he can say, 327 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 8: I'm preparing these on behalf of them. This is the 328 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 8: address of record for these people. And it's a small thing, 329 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 8: but it matters because if those folks don't file their taxes, 330 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 8: it is a crime. 331 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: And so people are finding things that they can do. 332 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 6: We'll be right back. 333 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: Yes, hey, we're back, and I'm going to wrap up 334 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: my conversation with our panel with me is NPRS Jasmine Guarst, 335 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: Kimberly Adams of Marketplace, and fascism expert Jason Stanley. Okay, 336 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: each of you are going to go around the table. 337 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: What's one thing that you're kind of keeping your eye on. 338 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: I'm definitely watching the impact on the economy of the 339 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: loss of our immigrant labor and love for this country. 340 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: What's one thing that you're kind of ego eyed on 341 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: in this next second year of the Trump administration. Going 342 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: back to the State of the Union. 343 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 7: Something that just my ears perked up when I heard 344 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 7: it was the Save Act. I think so much of 345 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 7: what was said yesterday was just from the playbook the 346 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 7: greatest hits of immigrants as criminals, rapists, people who dismember girls. 347 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 7: But when the President started talking about the Save Act, 348 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 7: I was really alert. So for those who don't know, 349 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 7: the Save Act would require American citizens to prove their 350 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 7: citizenship in order to vote, and to prove it using 351 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 7: a passport or a birth certificate and a valid photo ID. 352 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 7: Now the pushback is it would disenfranchise millions of Americans 353 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 7: who don't have access to those documents. I think about 354 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 7: half of Americans don't have a passport, and that it 355 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 7: would also affect women, women who have taken on a 356 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 7: spouse's last name, for example. 357 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 9: And the President kept talking about this idea that there 358 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 9: has been widespread voter fraud, that undocumented immigrants have been 359 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 9: voting en mass in federal elections, which is categorically untrue. 360 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 9: Every audit, every study that gets done, finds an infinitesimal 361 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 9: fraction of a person like point zero zero zero one 362 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 9: or something of and it's usually people who made a 363 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 9: mistake who thought, Oh, I thought I could vote with 364 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 9: a green card. I think that this mythology, or this 365 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 9: outright lie of immigrants committing voter fraud is taking aim, 366 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 9: and I. 367 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 7: Think it's something to really really look out for. 368 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: Kimberly. 369 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 8: So, I pay a lot of attention to the aging 370 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 8: population in the United States and the caregiving crisis that 371 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 8: we have. There are so many aging baby boomers and 372 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 8: not nearly the labor force to take care of them. 373 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 8: And as healthcare costs go up and more people want 374 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 8: to age at home, and guess who's doing most of 375 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 8: that work right now? It's immigrants, many of them undocumented immigrants. 376 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 8: One of my colleagues, Elizabeth Trovill, just did some amazing 377 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 8: report in Florida about the end of temporary protected status 378 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 8: for a lot of people and how they were literally 379 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 8: working in a nursing home and the nursing home now 380 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 8: has no idea where they're going to get their staffing from. 381 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 8: And so as people look at their family members, their parents, 382 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 8: their grandparents, their older relatives and start thinking about who 383 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 8: is going to help care for them as they age, 384 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 8: Who's going to help care for you as you age? 385 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 8: Who's it going to be. 386 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: So Jason something that you're going to be watching eagle 387 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,959 Speaker 1: eye from your perch in Canada to the United States. 388 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 6: Well, so he announced that he's going to do to 389 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 6: the other Blue States what he did to Minnesota. Ice 390 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 6: learned from Minneapolis. They're going to be more brutal the 391 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 6: next time. The protesters, the ones who are shielding their neighbors, 392 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 6: their hardworking neighbors, the targets which now Trump is going 393 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 6: to do to Latinos, to other immigrants, what has been 394 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 6: done to Black Americans on huge scales. So this is 395 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 6: the beginning of a massive conflict because we'll see where 396 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 6: this hads. But the protesters are staying nonviolent. Thank god, 397 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 6: you can't fight is Its has a military budget rivaling 398 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 6: like Turkeys. But it's the beginning of tactics and we 399 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 6: will see how far it goes. Now that Trump has 400 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 6: announced an invasion of the other Blue Staks. 401 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: I have to end on an upnote because I don't 402 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: want people to just be like, oh my god. I'm 403 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: going to tell you what's bringing me joy in this 404 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: precise week is that the eagles from Big Beer Valley 405 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: in California, they have laid she has laid an egg 406 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: after her first two eggs were destroyed by the ravens. Jasmine, 407 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: something that brings you joy, punch. 408 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 7: The monkey found a friend, and then I saw someone 409 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 7: that he abandoned his little plush toy, which now I'm 410 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 7: feeling bad for the plush toy. I have some weird 411 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 7: anthropomorphism happening. But he found a little friend and that 412 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 7: made me really happy. 413 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 4: Jason, Well, I'm a halftime single dad, and my kids 414 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 4: bring me joy every moment and remind me why I'm 415 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 4: doing the anti fascist work. 416 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 8: Kimberly, take us out, honestly seeing all of the ways 417 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 8: that individual people are finding ways to step up in 418 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 8: this moment. I've seen so much creativity, so much organizing, 419 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 8: and people really recognizing that democracy is not a spectator 420 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 8: sport and they're all playing. 421 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: Kimberly Adams host an editor at Marketplace, Jasmine Gard's immigration 422 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: correspondent at PR. Jason Stanley, author of Erasing History, How 423 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: fascists rewrite the past to control the future, Thank you 424 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: so much for giving us our state of the Union. 425 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 8: Yes, good as nice to see you. 426 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Renaldo Leanos Junior. It was 427 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: edited by Revecque Mara. It was mixed by j. J. 428 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: Krubin and Julia Caruso. Fact checking for this episode by 429 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: Roxanna Aguire. Nancy Truquillo is our production manager. Bernande Chavari 430 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: is our managing editor. The Latino USA team also includes 431 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: Julia Caruso, Stefrie LAbau, Ruis Luna, Jonni mad Marquez, Julieta Martinelli, 432 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: Monica Moreles Garcia, and Adriana Rodriguez. Penile Ramrez and I 433 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: are executive producers. I'm your Host Maria Josa. Latino USA 434 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: is part of Iheart's Michael Tura podcast Network. Executive producers 435 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: at iHeart are Theo Gomez and arth In Santana. Join 436 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: us again on our next episode. In the meantime, I'll 437 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: see you on social media. Most don't forget, dear listener, 438 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: it's so easy to be able to listen to the 439 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: shows without having to hear all the ads. All you 440 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: need to do is to join Futuro Plus, and you're 441 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: really supporting us in the process. Join Fuda Plus. You're 442 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: gonna love it. 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