1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff mob never told you. From how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline. And today, since the Super Bowl is 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: right around the corner, we're going to talk about women 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: sports reporters, and specifically we're focusing on football, Yes, American football. 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Apologies to listeners outside the United States, but chances are, Caroline, 7 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: when we watched the Super Bowl, or if we watch 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: the Super Bowl, I probably will because I enjoy the 9 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: dips go along with it. The only women were going 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: to see on screen will be cheerleaders, female halftime performers. 11 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: I don't know at the moment who's performing, and if 12 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: it's not Beyonce, so why'm I'm not probably gonna just 13 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,959 Speaker 1: change the channel. But the only other women will be 14 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: sideline reporters. Right. And the thing about sideline report, as 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: you would think that's great, right, getn't getting women into 16 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: sports reporting because women know just as much about sports 17 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: and care just as much about sports as guys do. 18 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: I mean, this is not a solely male domain. Yeah, 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: I mean, when we had our episode on female football 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: fans not too long ago, is well established there are 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 1: rabid female fans out there and a lot of them. Yeah, 22 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: and so these these female sideline reporters, they know their stuff, 23 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: and so that's that's a positive thing. Right, Well, they're 24 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: not necessarily, as we'll talk about, used correctly exactly. Um, 25 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: But first of all, let's establish that when it comes 26 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: to sports journalism, and yeah, we're narrowing in on this 27 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: sideline reporting issue since it's the Super Bowl, but when 28 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: it comes to women in sports journalism is tough out there. 29 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: For instance, we we got a couple of choice quotes 30 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: to kick things off. Sports broadcaster Frank Gifford once said 31 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,279 Speaker 1: to Melissa lud Key, who is a very important woman 32 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: in the evolution of women in sports journalism, as we'll 33 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: get to, he once commented to her, you know a 34 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: lot of sports for a girl, and and to play 35 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: devil's advocate and give the bright side of that. Gifford 36 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: did invite lud Key to ABC where she met Billy 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: gene King. It's not like he just you know, craft 38 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: on her head. Yeah, but that was him be impressed 39 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: with with the knowledge. But then next thing, we have 40 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: Andy Rooney and he's more talking about the sideline reporters, 41 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: and I'm talking about Andy Rooney, the Late sixty Minutes 42 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: guy who said, the only thing that really bugs me 43 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: about television's coverage is those women they have down on 44 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: the sidelines who don't know what that they're talking about. 45 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: And he didn't say that in he said that in 46 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 1: two thousand five, and then I think it was last year. 47 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: Charles Barkley, who is now you know, professional basketball player 48 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: now turned commentator, equipped that if you are an ugly woman, 49 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: you're never going to get on television for sports reporting. 50 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: So there's just a mess of stuff happening. Yeah, and 51 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: and it starts with just the fact that generally sports 52 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: reporting is a pretty heavily male domain. You've got people 53 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: the top who are mail, people in the middle who 54 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: are mail, people to the bottom who are mail, all 55 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: hiring more male humans to do more of the sports reporting. 56 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: So there was a report on race and gender diversity 57 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: from the Institute for Diversity and Ethics and Sport that 58 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: found that among one hundred and fifty newspapers and websites, 59 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: nine four percent of sports editors were men and eight 60 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: point three percent of sports reporters were men. Yeah. Of 61 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: the eleven women who were sports editors, six of them 62 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: worked for ESPN, So that leaves just five out there 63 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: among one d and fifty newspapers and websites. And I 64 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: dug around and tried to find comparable statistics for sports broadcasting, 65 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: but wasn't able to get any hard data. I think 66 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: because sports broadcasting is even more overwhelmingly male, that the 67 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: line you just hear over and over again is anecdotally like, 68 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: I mean, just look at the faces on the screen. 69 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: It's always the tables full of those guys and those 70 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: massive suits. That's so big. Suits are so huge, and 71 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: I mean they're pretty big. Yeah, I mean a lot 72 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: of them are like x NFL players, but the shiny 73 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: ties and they've all got their bling rings from their 74 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: past wins. And it's just it's it's just guys talking. 75 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: It's a lot of guys talking until you get down 76 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: to halftime, when you have twenty seconds of the female 77 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: sideline reporter talking to a coach who would rather be 78 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: doing anything else. Yeah, And I'm wondering, you know, we 79 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: we we gave you those those two terrible quotes about 80 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: women in sports, and and I'm wondering if that attitude 81 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: that it's okay to continue to say things like that. 82 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: It's because maybe these men who are in these positions 83 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: of reporting or hiring reporters or whatever, um, they just 84 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: feel like it's comfortable, like like there aren't even any 85 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: women around, so I can just talk however I want. 86 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: I think it might be some of that. I think 87 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: it's also just the culture of sport and the hyper 88 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: masculinity that often goes along with that, especially since we're 89 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: talking about professional football, which I say is probably the 90 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: worst out of all of them. Um. And so today 91 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: there's this problem for women who are sports journalists who 92 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: really want to be reporting on sports and be calling 93 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: games and analyzing games, and there's this desire for credibility 94 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: in a market that really just wants I Candy, or 95 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: at least just downplays them to just being I candy. 96 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, like Brent Musburger, who in January about 97 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: a year ago called Holly Row sports reporter smoking. Yeah. 98 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: I mean then right after ESPN was like no, no, no, 99 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: no no. He said that the the sporting event she 100 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: was kind of reporting on was smoking. But Musburger was 101 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: not helping himself out because he had previously gotten a 102 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: wrist lap for ogling a college quarterbacks girlfriend for an 103 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: extended period of time during the BCS Championship, wouldn't shut up, like, 104 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't stop talking about her, even to the point where 105 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: he's like, hey, little boys out there watching TV, you 106 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: better go play with the pigskin in the backyard dad, 107 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: so that you can get a girlfriend like that. Yeah, 108 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: Or it's just like can we talk about football? Can 109 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: we talk about some football? Um? So there was a 110 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: study though, driving this point home. There was a study 111 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: female sports Journalists, Are We There Yet No? Published in 112 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: two thousand five by Marie Harden and Stacy Shane, which 113 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: found of women working in sports journalism, this is not 114 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: just the sideline reporting type of stuff. This is sports 115 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: journalism on the whole feel as though they're not seen 116 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: as equals because of their gender. And Rachel Nichols, who's 117 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: a CNN sports reporter said just kind of backed us up. 118 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: She said, when I meet players for the first time, 119 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: they can be a bit guarded right off the bat, 120 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: based too, you don't know what you're talking about. It's 121 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: harder to get the story sometimes. And speaking of harder 122 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: to get the story sometimes, just researching. Doing basic research 123 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: for this podcast was a little bit challenging off the 124 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: bat because when you look up women's sideline reporters. You 125 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: know what Google gives you. It gives you about a 126 00:07:54,600 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 1: million galleries of the hottest sideline reporters sexiest sex spots 127 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: on the football field. For instance, there is one of 128 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure many over a bleacher report written by Zach 129 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: Pomerantz who said, quote, whether they possess impeccable journalistic skills 130 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: or look amazing in a tight skirt, these broadcast beauties 131 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: are all ready to instill chaos on camera. Well, it 132 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: makes me sad because already it's you know, women are 133 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: being told, you know, you're not wanted, You're not welcome here. 134 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: You know, this is this is a safe space for men, 135 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about you however we want, 136 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: you know, And it's it's I think that much more 137 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: impressive for the women who have broken through. Do have 138 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: that credibility, Are you know, able to call games, whether 139 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: you know, in any sport? I think it's not much 140 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: more impressive that they've broken through and become successful. Yeah. 141 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: But at the same time too, with that success, they 142 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: also have to deal with being pitted against women who 143 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: have been hired by broadcast network specifically for how they look. 144 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: You know. I mean, if you think about football and 145 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: the fact that who's on the field who are women, 146 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: it's cheerleaders, and then sometimes these women who also are 147 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: doing Playboy spreads, it's it's like setting it's setting us 148 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: up for for this kind of problem. Um. But the 149 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: the history though of women in the sideline reporting is 150 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: kind of fascinating, and a lot of this is coming 151 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: from an article in the Washington Post and also the 152 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: study the Credibility of Female Sports Broadcasters by Amantha Gunther, 153 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: Daniel Cowts, and Alison Roth, who note that in the 154 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties and forties, a woman named Mrs Harry Johnson 155 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: just a fact that we don't even ever first time 156 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: and I searched for it and it is lost to history. 157 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: She's just necessary. Johnson was a sports commentator during her husband, 158 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: Harry Johnson, we can only assume, during his broadcast for 159 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: Central States Broadcasting in Omaha, Nebraska. And she's considered kind 160 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: of the first female sports broadcaster. Mrs Harry john Oh, 161 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: Mrs Harry um been in the mid sixties. You have 162 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: Jane Chastain, who became the first woman to conduct play 163 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: by play coverage of a live sporting event. In Miami. 164 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: But in the nineteen seventies, that's when stuff really starts happening, 165 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: because in nineteen seventy two you have, for instance, a 166 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: passage of Title nine. And also around this time you 167 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: have The New York Times in Washington Post being hit 168 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 1: by gender discrimination class action suits and being legally forced 169 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: to bring on their first female sports writers as a result. 170 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: And so then in nineteen seventy four, CBS brings on 171 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,479 Speaker 1: the same Jane Chastain as the first female NFL announcer 172 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: and Leslie Vissi as the first female sideline reporter. And 173 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 1: Leslie Vissi is a huge pioneer, should have a ton 174 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,599 Speaker 1: of first in terms of NFL reporting, and she's considered 175 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: one of the legends. Yeah. Well, then right away you've 176 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: got the that back and forth between do we hire 177 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: someone who knows her stuff or do we just hire 178 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: someone who's pretty. Not that you can't have both, but 179 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: there is that dividing line there. Uh In, CBS hires 180 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: former Miss USA Phyllis George as a sportscaster as part 181 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: of this new trend to hire former beauty queens and 182 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: cover girls. Yeah, I mean that also reminds me this 183 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: is a total stuff. I've never told you, Tangent, but 184 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: it reminds me of in our episode on Barbara Walters 185 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: when she got her slot on the Today Show. And 186 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: I don't have the year in front of me, but 187 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: how notable it was that she got that role on 188 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: camera because before that it had all been beauty queens, 189 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: because actresses and just people who were there to be 190 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: a pretty face. Yeah, I mean, because these networks are 191 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: being run by guys who you know, assumed that that's 192 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: what the consumer wants to see right on the TV um. 193 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: But then in nineteen seven we have a big event. 194 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: This is when Melissa lud Key, the woman who was 195 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: told that, you know, a lot of sports for a girl. 196 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: She was working for Sports Illustrated and her the publisher 197 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated Time, Inc. Sued Major League Baseball for not 198 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: allowing her to enter into male locker rooms, and the 199 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: Major League Baseball commissioner at the time said, well, we 200 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: haven't been able to pull players wives about whether that 201 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: would be appropriate, so lud Key can't come in. Well, 202 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: also that he was saying that their children, these players 203 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: children would be made fun of at school. I have 204 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: no idea, but lud Key one. Yeah, probably because that's 205 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: sort of a laughable defense. Um, but she won, and 206 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: this was this was a huge deal at the time. 207 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: And uh, a lot of these professional sports teams would 208 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: bully and I mean, the sad thing is this did 209 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: not stop in the seventies, but these teams would bully 210 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: women and also put like a sexual spin on it, 211 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: saying that, well, women wouldn't be able to handle it 212 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: if they went into locker rooms, because that's when men are, 213 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: you know, in various states of undressed, and it's just 214 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: you know, oh, they wouldn't be able to contain themselves. 215 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: Whereas these sports writers like lead here saying, seriously, I 216 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: don't want to have to go into a locker room. 217 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: It's disgusting and smelling in there, But this is part 218 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: of my job. It's like, if if you want to 219 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: scoop somebody or get a hit a deadline, you gotta 220 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: be in there right after the game. Yeah. Well, there 221 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: were a lot of instances of like team managers and 222 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: people saying, fine, nobody can come into the locker rooms 223 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: at all. And so then you have that that heated, 224 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: that anger between the male reporters and the female reporters 225 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: being like well, you've screwed us all and it's you know, 226 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: just simply to keep women out of out of locker rooms. 227 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: And the following year, in nine, we have another milestone 228 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: with Jane Kennedy, who replaces Phillis George, becoming the first 229 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: African American woman to host a network sports TV broadcast. Um, 230 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: but Kennedy was another one of the pretty faces. I 231 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: think she also ended up becoming the first African American 232 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: woman to be on the cover of Playboy, for instance. 233 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: So it's still that kind of trend happening, and I 234 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: hate that because that's a it's a great first in 235 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: a way with the you know, the first black woman 236 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: to be doing the sports broadcasting, but then it's only 237 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: continuing this I candy factor. Yeah, I mean, I think 238 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: it's I just don't like that from the get go, 239 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: the sexiness has to be paired with the woman being 240 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: a sports reporter, like from the very beginning that those 241 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: two things go hand in hand. Yeah, m there was 242 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: The NFL did bring on one female announcer at the 243 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: end of the seven season. Gayl Syrians called a Chiefs 244 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: Seahawks game for NBC, and when The Washington Post published 245 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: this article, I think it was in two thousand nine 246 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: all about its legacy of women being relegated to the sidelines. 247 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: The NFL stock response that they gave was quote, the 248 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: NFL network certainly will consider these and other female broadcasters 249 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: for future play by play roles based on their interests 250 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: and opportunities to do play by play on the NFL network, 251 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: which at this point is very limited, Which basically says 252 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: it just shut up and let us play football. You know, 253 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: we don't really care. Well, as Kristen said, the harassment 254 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: that these women reporters faced was not limited just to 255 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: the seventies. In the nineteen nineties, we have sports writer 256 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: Lisa Olsen who ended up becoming so fed up with 257 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: player harassment, particularly from a New England Patriots players, she 258 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: eventually left for Australia. And that harassment was a result basically, 259 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: you know, she had she had been subjected to some 260 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: pretty horrible stuff in the locker rooms, she sued. The 261 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: Patriots were fined and individual players were fined also, and 262 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,239 Speaker 1: the fans just like couldn't handle it. They The harassment 263 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: that she ended up facing resulted in her moving to 264 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: a different continent. So that wasn't too long ago, Caroline 265 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties, and as we move into the 266 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: situation for women's sports reporters and especially female football announcers today, 267 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: things have changed and yet they haven't changed so much. 268 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: And we will get into that when we come right 269 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: back from a quick break and now back to the show. 270 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: It's funny how some have said, well, you know, we 271 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: have all these women being allowed into male locker rooms, 272 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: but what if a male sports writer and to go 273 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: into female locker rooms, to which one female sportswriter once quipped, well, 274 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: we would love for you to come into women's locker rooms. 275 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: But the problem is that, you know, women's sports are 276 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: often also relegated to the sidelines in a way because 277 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: people typically don't care about them nearly as much as 278 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: they do men's professional sports. Come onto the locker room, 279 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: come on, come on in and interview our players about 280 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: the sports that they just participated in. The Please talk 281 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: to us about athletics. Um so, again and again and again, 282 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: we have this issue of women sports reporters when it 283 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: comes to football, especially being stuck in these sideline roles 284 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: where you have the conundrum of the credibility versus the 285 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: eye candy. You have some people asking whether or not 286 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: they should even be there, whether sideline reporters have any 287 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: value whatsoever, and whether or not women are ever going 288 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: to be able to get up into the announcer booth. 289 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: And Lori Orlando, who is a senior vice president for ESPN, 290 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: said to Washington Post, quote, women have historically moved towards 291 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: sideline reporters because that's what has been acceptable. The industry 292 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: is changing, and of course this tool will change. That 293 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: wasn't two thousand nine. Nothing has changed. Yeah, nothing has changed. 294 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: And and you know, her quote is so nice to read, 295 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: but it's it's you know, we've people have talked about this, 296 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: the issue just solely of sideline reporters, women sideline reporters 297 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: since there have been sideline reporters, and really not much 298 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: has changed. People still look to those reporters as being 299 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: just eye candy. Yeah. Um. It was interesting to Pam Ward, 300 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,959 Speaker 1: who has been an ESPN sideline reporters since two thousand, 301 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: very well respected in her field, said quote, more than 302 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: of women who asked me for career advice want to 303 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: do sidelines because that's what they see as possible. They 304 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: see it as a female role. And she almost feels 305 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: bad for encouraging them so much to get into sideline 306 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: reporting because she realizes experientially that that's the ceiling a 307 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: lot of times. Yeah, it's it's unfortunate, like to picture, 308 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,719 Speaker 1: you know, women being funneled. They're going up the funnel 309 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: from college into their careers and they just sort of 310 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: like go to the side, like literally in this case, 311 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: sideline reporters instead of continuing up the pipe into the 312 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 1: more coveted sports reporting positions. Yeah. I mean, and someone 313 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: like Andrea Kramer, who, like pay Word, is a very 314 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: well respected football reporter. She argues that there is a 315 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: value in sideline reporting because of all the action going 316 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: on on the field. But if you know your stuff, 317 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: if you have institutional knowledge of a team, that you 318 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: really can ask the right questions and really be able 319 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: to inform the commentators, the play by play callers in 320 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: the booth of what's going on on the field and 321 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: whether or not momentum is changing. But I mean, she's 322 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: having to argue against a lot of people who are 323 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: saying that the job really isn't necessary because a lot 324 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: of times sidebutin reporters are given what three thirty second 325 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: slots one in the first half, one in the second half, 326 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: and one at halftime when they're like chasing down a 327 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: coach who's not going to say anything to them, right, 328 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: and so what your only question is like, hey, coach, 329 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: what are you planning for the second half? And he's like, 330 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: keep winning or try to score more points. Yeah, I 331 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: can see how you. And I mean I as someone 332 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: who really does not watch football. When I do watch football, 333 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: those sideline reports are cringe inducing and I hate it 334 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: because I'm like, Oh, she's just this beautiful woman and 335 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: like a really beautiful jacket, and they're just putting her 336 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: down there to fail. And I mean, I think, you know, 337 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: Kramer and others argue that sideline reporters are very valuable because, 338 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,959 Speaker 1: like you said, Kristen, if you know your stuff, if 339 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: you're able to read lips and you know, kind of 340 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: observe what's going on and funnel that knowledge up to 341 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: the booth, then you're earning your keep. But I would 342 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: have to then agree with other people's assessment that like, 343 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: if you're not even allowed to do that, if you're 344 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,959 Speaker 1: just hired because you're pretty faced and you don't have 345 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: that knowledge of the game of the team of what's 346 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: going on. If you don't even know the right questions 347 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: to ask, then you're set up to fail and you're 348 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: not going to be contributing the way that people would 349 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: like to see. Well. Unfortunately, it also makes all of 350 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: those more earnest sports reporters look bad in a way. 351 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: Not that attractiveness and uh an in depth sports knowledge 352 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: is mutually exclusive at all, but this is something that 353 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: Isabel Markham, who is an aspiring sports reporter, was writing 354 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,239 Speaker 1: about over the Daily Beast and she called it the 355 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: beauty Premium and said that it's aspired its damage excuse 356 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: me to aspiring sports reporters like her. And when she 357 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: interviewed espn W reporter Jane McManus, um mcmah has made 358 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: a really interesting point which was quote, it's definitely a 359 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: job that pits two different kinds of journalists against each other, 360 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: and that does not happen to men in our industry. 361 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: Basically the the I candy versus the more hard nosed, 362 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: credible journalist. Yeah. I feel like with men, there doesn't 363 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: have to be that the dividing line. It's like, well, 364 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: you're a man, so you know football and so. And 365 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: that's another thing that these reporters are coming up against, 366 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: which I think we we kind of highlighted earlier with 367 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: that quote as far as just like you just look 368 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: at me and I'm a woman and he's a man, 369 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: and you just automatically assume that he knows more than 370 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: I do. You know, when you might have a mediocre 371 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: male sports reporter and a fantastic educated in the no 372 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: female reporter and she's just not going to get the 373 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: same scoops sometimes that her male colleague would get. Right, 374 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: And then in terms two of the beauty premium for 375 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: women in broadcasting, I mean, unfortunately, this is a snapshot 376 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: of the broader fact of the matter where yeah, I mean, 377 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 1: prettier faces for women are often going to get jobs 378 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: more often. Because when that Musburger thing happened where he 379 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: called Holly Row smoking, so many jokes were made about like, well, 380 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: Musburger certainly isn't smoking. Look at all of these men 381 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: calling the the plays in the booth that we're having 382 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: to see their faces and it's not like they're on 383 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: the covers of g Q. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And 384 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: then we have the issue of the fact that there's 385 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: just very little racial diversity as well. Um, this is 386 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: coming from a study called on the Sidelines, Sex and 387 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: Racial Segregation and Television Sports Broadcasting, and they point out 388 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: that people of color are not gonna really be in 389 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: the booth either. They said they're most likely to be 390 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: found doing competition level reporting followed by studio analysis. They're 391 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: less likely to work as play by play announcers. Well, 392 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: there is one analog to the issue for female sports 393 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: reporters of the looks versus the credibility issue that was 394 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: actually brought up in the comments section of that Daily 395 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: Beast piece by Isabel Markham, which is that now you're 396 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: seeing more and more ex professional players automatically being moved 397 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: into those massive suits and calling games and not necessarily 398 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: being so good at it. So some would say, well, 399 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: you're seeing the same thing. It's these it's these like 400 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: huge dudes who are just being given jobs by virtue 401 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: though of their actual experience on the field. I don't 402 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: feel like it's a valid argument, and it's still part 403 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: of the system. Yeah, and by the system, I mean 404 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: like the capital s system. So yeah, that's not not equitable. 405 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: And this might seem like a frivolous issue to spend 406 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 1: an entire podcast episode talking about but if there's one 407 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: thing that comes up over and over and over again, 408 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,959 Speaker 1: whether it's something like women in sideline reporting or women 409 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: in stem vincibility makes a big difference, you know for sure. 410 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: And there are there are some big names that that 411 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: we should talk about as far as women who have 412 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: played a big role in sports reporting. UM. One is 413 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: Mary Carrillo, who will be serving as an Olympic correspondent 414 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: for the upcoming Winter Olympics in so She but she's 415 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: a former tenant pro tennis player who did an incredible 416 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: job as a tennis analyst. She was actually named tennis's 417 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: top analyst by Sports Illustrated. She's won two Peabody Awards 418 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: for her work on sports documentaries looking at women's participation. UM, 419 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she she has made quite a mark. Yeah. 420 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: I feel like tennis is one of the rare exceptions 421 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: in pro sports where you are a lot more likely 422 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: to see Mary Carrillo, Billy Jane King women commentating. And 423 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure why that is. Maybe it's because 424 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: they're maybe men and women have more of an equal 425 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: playing field with tennis. Maybe because of Billy jen King 426 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: winning the Battle of the Sexes against Bobby Riggs and 427 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: proving that women, you know, have their stake in that game. 428 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I would argue that tennis is 429 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: completely devoid of the culture that surrounds football. Like there's 430 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: no I mean, I don't when I when you say 431 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: picture tennis fan, I don't immediately picture a man necessarily. 432 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I just picture someone wearing white. Try to 433 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: picture a Wimbledon dip, you know, Wimbledon wings. Sure, yeah, no, no, 434 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: but I mean wings. I picture wings and I am happy. 435 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: But no, I mean, yeah, it's it's it's not that same. 436 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: But also you have to think about, like I feel 437 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: like football is like this American macho, stereotypical, dude like 438 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: kind of culture around it, whereas tennis it's all over 439 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: the world. It's men and women playing. You know, it's 440 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: it's just you can it's apples to orange almost and 441 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: so well, it's fantastic that tennis has more female commentators 442 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: and announcers and all that stuff. Um, it's not the same. Yeah, 443 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily as impactful, at least speaking to you know, 444 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: American audiences for girls who might want to be sports journalists. 445 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: You know, I mean, it's like the quote from Pam 446 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 1: Worde where like all of the women she talks to, 447 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: or of them at least aspire to be sideline reporters 448 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: as as good as it gets, it's like, no, think bigger, 449 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: I think bigger. Well because in a lot of ways too, 450 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: I mean, football is such, uh, you know, one of 451 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: the last bastions of just like exclusively like men stuff. 452 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,239 Speaker 1: You know, you don't have female football teams. You night 453 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: have like I mean, you have cheerleaders on the field 454 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: and that's it. So and and the laing Arree League 455 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 1: which doesn't count. But for that reason though, it is 456 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: great to have role models like a LA's Leavis or 457 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: who we mentioned earlier, who was the first female beat 458 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: reporter to cover the NFL, the first female member of 459 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: the Monday Night football announcing team, the first woman's sportscaster 460 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: to preside over the post Super Bowl presentations being of 461 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 1: Super Bowls, of the events Lombardi Trophy, and even the 462 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: first female sportscaster took carry the Olympic Torch. What hasn't 463 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: she done because she actually is one of the rare 464 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: women who has called an NFL game. Leslie, Leslie, I know, 465 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: and then you know we mentioned Andrea Kramer earlier, and 466 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: she uh is actually working with the NFL network focusing 467 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: on player health and safety issues, and she's worked on 468 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: more than twenty Super Bowls. Yeah, it's a lot of 469 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: Super Bowls. I remember growing up watching Robin Roberts, who 470 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: is a lot better known now for working I believe, 471 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,479 Speaker 1: with Good Morning America, but she got her start on 472 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: Sports Center that I used to watch back in the 473 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: day with my brother. I always enjoyed to the women 474 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: on Sports Center. Robin Roberts had what was her catchphrase? 475 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: It was something like, go on with your bad self. Yeah. Yeah, anyway, Well, 476 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: then you also have Hannah Storm. She's the first woman 477 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: to buy herself host a national show for the Major 478 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: League Baseball from thousand. She's with ESPN SportsCenter now, but 479 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: she's covered the NFL, NBA, and Wimbledon. Yeah, I mean. 480 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: And the thing too about this is that even though 481 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: we've talked over and over again about football, specifically American football, 482 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: this is not just an issue with football. If you 483 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: watch an n C double a basketball game, if you 484 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: watch the Master's golf tournament, if you watch NASCAR, if 485 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: you watch baseball, you know, if even if you watch 486 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,719 Speaker 1: soccer or football, depending on where you were listening to 487 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: this podcast, it's still overwhelmingly men who are who are 488 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: calling the game. And you also too with European football 489 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: you have the sexy sideline reporters as all. Yeah, so 490 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you know, we we can hammer 491 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: it over your head. So we've talked about it before. 492 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: But just visibility, visibility of visibility. I mean getting girls, 493 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: little girls to dream bigger and and aspire to be 494 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: the sports editor, the one who does the hiring, the 495 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: one who goes out there and gets all the stories 496 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: and something to watch out for, aside from the commercials 497 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: in the Super Bowl. So, female sports fans, especially when 498 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: I hear from you, I mean, what do you think 499 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: about this sideline reporter issues? It frustrating to see women 500 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: always relegated to the side. Is it frustrating to see 501 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: women obviously maybe being on camera because they are very pretty? 502 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of them are very attractive, great hair, 503 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: great hair. I love their jacket and I said, oh man, 504 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: and then also getting hit in the head sometimes by 505 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: football's tough out there. Tough out there. Yeah, So email 506 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: us mom stuff at Discovery dot com. You can also 507 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: tweet a some mom stuff podcast or messages over on Facebook, 508 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of messages to share with 509 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: you right now. Well, I've got a Facebook message here 510 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: from Laura in response to episode on women and Hunting, 511 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: and she lives in central Wisconsin, a place, she says 512 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: where deer hunting is of the utmost importance to most people. Seriously, 513 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: I almost typed something that most people live for here rights. 514 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: Here are a few things that you might find interesting, 515 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: by which I mean problematic. Number One, in my middle 516 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: and high school, parents could sign permission slips that would 517 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: allow their child to miss school during the first part 518 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: of the gun deer season, and many of them did. 519 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: Attendance was often so low during those days that those 520 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: of us that did attend got to watch movies. Number Two, 521 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: there's widow's weekend, which is a term used widely by 522 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: most people in the media to describe the first weekend 523 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: of the gun dear season, when women will go shopping, 524 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: or go to the spa, or do other girly things 525 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: because their men are out hunting. And the number three 526 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: one of the things you didn't really touch on in 527 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,719 Speaker 1: your podcast is the fact that many women participate in 528 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: hunting as a way to bond with the males in 529 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: their lives father's, brothers, boyfriends, etcetera. Some women genuinely love 530 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: these interactions. However, some women and girls will pretend to 531 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: be more into hunting than they actually are because they 532 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: think it makes them a cool girl slash wife slash daughter. 533 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: When I was a teenager, many couples went deer shining, 534 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: which is when you drive around with a large light 535 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: and try to spot deer as a date. I'm not 536 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: sure how many of the women actually thought this was romantic, 537 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: but it was definitely a pervasive part of the teenage 538 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: dating culture in my small town. So thanks for those insights, Laura. 539 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: Deer shining. I can't say that I would have been 540 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: really interested in that, but I went mud dogg and 541 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: in my youth, mud dog it's when it's very dangerous. 542 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: It's when you go into the woods and preferably a 543 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: truck after it's rained, and there's a lot of mud, 544 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: and you drive recklessly through the mud to splash around. Children. 545 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: Don't go mud dogging, Oh, it's just you make mud 546 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: splash with cars. Fun, Yeah, mud splash. Um. Well, I 547 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: have a letter here from David about our crafting episode. 548 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: Um I guess episodes plural, He says. I am a 549 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: gentleman with a degree in fiber and it was always 550 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: fascinating having conversations about making work using quote women's work 551 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: as my medium. I grew up loving cross stitching and 552 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: all kinds of crafts, and I was stoked to find 553 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: out I could major in it in art school. Since then, 554 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: I have made my living as a puppet maker, prop designer, 555 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: and installation artist. I am mostly contacting you, though, to 556 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: introduce you to the work of ben Venom, who does 557 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: this beautiful but almost cartoonishly masculine type of quilt at 558 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: ben venom dot com. So thank you for your letter, David. Yeah, 559 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: and definitely check out ben Venom's work. It's uh they're 560 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: extreme quilts, I'll put it that way. Uh. So thanks 561 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: to everybody who's written into us again. Mom Stuff at 562 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is our email address, and if you 563 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: want to find out all the different places we are 564 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: on social and also check out every single one of 565 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: our podcast, videos and blog posts. There's one place to go, people, 566 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: and you should go there right now and many times after. 567 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: It's Stuff Mom Never Told You dot com For more 568 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how 569 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com