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Speaker 1: I know what you're thinking, why is Hurdle coming out

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Speaker 1: on a weekend? While I met a runner named Zoe

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Speaker 1: this week who asked me to pretty please push this

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Speaker 1: out before tomorrow's marathon so she could listen to it

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Speaker 1: on the run.

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Speaker 2: And who am I not too induld to hurdler?

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Speaker 1: So welcome to episode twenty six of Hurdle, a podcast

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Speaker 1: that talks to top CEOs and entrepreneurs who got through

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Speaker 1: some of life's most difficult moments hurdles of sorts by

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Speaker 1: leading into wellness.

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Speaker 2: My name's Emily.

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Speaker 1: Avadi, and I am geeked out to bring you the

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Speaker 1: first ever full episode of Hurdle Live with on running

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Speaker 1: founder Casper Capetti. Now, I know if you've been following

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Speaker 1: along with the podcast, you've heard the term hurdle life before.

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Speaker 1: And in the past, Hurdle Live has been what I've

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Speaker 1: called quarterly gatherings of past podcast guests from panel discussions

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Speaker 1: in the New York City area. But this episode is

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Speaker 1: the first truly live recorded episode of Hurdle where it's

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Speaker 1: just me and and I feel like I'm channeling my

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Speaker 1: inner guy raz and I have a guest and a

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Speaker 1: live audience, and it's a bunch of fun. A quick

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Speaker 1: shout out to the sponsor of today's episode, Athleticgreens. Gearing

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Speaker 1: up for the New York City Marathon this week, I

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Speaker 1: was super strict and making sure that I was getting

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Speaker 1: in all the best nutrition, and Athletic Greens is definitely

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Speaker 1: a piece to that puzzle, complete with twelve servings of

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Speaker 1: fruits and vegetables. Having the Greens powder as part of

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Speaker 1: my morning routine makes me feel like a better me.

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Speaker 1: They're offering a special deal for Hurdle listeners. It's twenty

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Speaker 1: free travel packs valued at ninety nine dollars with your

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Speaker 1: first purchase. Just go to Athleticgreens dot com slash Hurdle

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Speaker 1: aclaim It no code necessary. Again, that's Athleticgreens dot com

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Speaker 1: slash Hurdle. So now let's talk on Running in Casper Coopetti.

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Speaker 1: In just eight years since its debut in twenty ten,

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Speaker 1: On has emerged as one of the fastest growing running

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Speaker 1: shoe brands, now in more than five thousand running specialty

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Speaker 1: shops across the globe. In episode twenty six, and I

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Speaker 1: talk about the pressures that come with starting an athletic

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Speaker 1: company from the ground up and how their cloud technology

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Speaker 1: which will break down a little bit, sets them apart

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Speaker 1: from other huge contenders like Nike and Asex. We also

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Speaker 1: dive into the super scary hurdle moment he had after

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Speaker 1: a factory in China manufacturing their shoes went bankrupt. He

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Speaker 1: tells me the insane story involving a cargo plane, of

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Speaker 1: how his team still managed to fill outstanding orders, and

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Speaker 1: about the necessary break he took from the hustle to

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Speaker 1: cycle throughout the Swiss Alps and get his mind right

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Speaker 1: to come back and lead his company. By the way,

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Speaker 1: pretty cool thing that they're doing for hurdle listeners. You

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Speaker 1: guys have the chance to put on shoes and gear

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Speaker 1: to the test for thirty days. Head on over to

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Speaker 1: paragonsports dot com. Pick your favorite shoes or apparel pieces

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Speaker 1: out and apply the code Paragon hurdle.

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Speaker 2: That's paar ago.

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Speaker 1: N hurdle at checkout, running them for thirty days, no pressure,

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Speaker 1: put them through their paces, and if you'll love them,

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Speaker 1: keep them. If you're not convinced, just send them back

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Speaker 1: for a full refund. Cool thing too if you're a

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Speaker 1: local to New York City. This also works in the

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Speaker 1: store located on eighteen and Broadway. Just say Paragon Hurdle

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Speaker 1: at the registers and that's it. Marathoners, good luck tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: We worked so hard for this.

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Speaker 2: Now it's time just to have some fun.

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Speaker 1: As always Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, at Hurdle Podcast, shoot me

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Speaker 1: an email Emily at Hurdle dot us to say hi,

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Speaker 1: and with that, let's get to Hurdle Live. Today, I

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Speaker 1: am sitting with the one, the only, Casper Copetti, the

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Speaker 1: co founder of on Running.

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Speaker 3: Casper, Hi, Emily, thanks for coming out.

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Speaker 1: I want to say I'm super stoked to be here,

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Speaker 1: not just because it's New York City Marathon week, which

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Speaker 1: is a big deal. I'm Monday. How many marathoners we

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Speaker 1: have in the house. A lot of marathoners, let's go.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited for that.

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Speaker 1: But I'm also super amped because although I've done panel

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Speaker 1: discussions with past podcast attendees, I've never recorded an actual

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Speaker 1: episode of Hurdle for the first time in front of

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. So thank you all for being

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Speaker 1: my test group, and for Paragon and for On for

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Speaker 1: enabling us to do this tonight.

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Speaker 2: Casper, You're not from here.

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Speaker 3: I'm not from here, but the big city still scares me.

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Speaker 2: He flew in yesterday last night. Yes, Okay, so Casper

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Speaker 2: is from Switzerland.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I grew up in a very small town. Okay,

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Speaker 3: think thousand people, lots of cows, mountain goats. I remember

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Speaker 3: the first time we came to New York and before

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Speaker 3: on this nine years ago, in a cab coming in

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Speaker 3: from JFK, and I saw the big sky and I

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Speaker 3: was like, oh, what am I doing here? Nobody's waiting

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Speaker 3: for us here, and I literally wanted to turn back.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, that was the first hurdle we had to

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Speaker 3: overcome to conquer New York to actually just going to Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about On for those

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Speaker 1: of the people in the room that aren't really familiar

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Speaker 1: with your brand.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: When I first heard.

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Speaker 1: About On Running, it was that you guys wanted to

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Speaker 1: create a Goldilocks sneaker that didn't.

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Speaker 2: Exist in the market.

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Speaker 1: So talk to me a little bit about what kind

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Speaker 1: of what is an ON sneaker?

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Speaker 2: What makes an ON sneaker an ON sneaker.

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Speaker 3: It's a very different running sensation. We reinvented cushioning. We

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Speaker 3: found a very different way of absorbing impact forces, which

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Speaker 3: are a problem for every runner. The way we solve.

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Speaker 3: It is with a geometrical element that absorbs the shock.

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Speaker 3: It's very very soft than you land, but then it

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Speaker 3: becomes firm. It compresses and as you push off your

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Speaker 3: your efficient you're not losing any energy. You're feeling the ground.

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Speaker 3: So it's basically your best cushion shoe and your track

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Speaker 3: spiking in the same product.

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Speaker 1: And you said, when originally creating the sneaker, you came

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Speaker 1: to understand that there are the foot moves in two different.

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Speaker 2: Types of ways.

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Speaker 1: It moves up and down, and then it also moves laterally,

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Speaker 1: and this sneaker is made to support that lateral movement exactly.

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Speaker 3: So when you run, you're basically not just jumping up

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Speaker 3: and down, but you're going forward, so your foot comes

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Speaker 3: down with the formal momentument then you pull back, so

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Speaker 3: you have a lot of sharing forces, and that's what

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Speaker 3: causes a lot of the injuries related to running. And

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Speaker 3: let's face it, about half of the people that run

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Speaker 3: have injuries either every year or dare reccur because it's

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Speaker 3: a repetitive movement and if just a lout thing is

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Speaker 3: off and you have that constant pounding and d sharing forces,

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Speaker 3: people do get injured. And ON is solving that problem.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I hear this and in my head, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: this tech didn't just pop up overnight. So why don't

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Speaker 1: we backtrack a little bit and you talked to me

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Speaker 1: about what you were doing before ON because I was

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Speaker 1: founded in twenty ten in Zurich, Switzerland, So talk to

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Speaker 1: me about what happened before twenty ten. Give me a

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Speaker 1: little bit of your backstory.

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Speaker 3: So I was, you know, growing up in a small mountain. No,

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Speaker 3: there's not that many options, so you know, obviously there's

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Speaker 3: snow and there's mountains. So I was this ski racer

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Speaker 3: and then I was about ten years old as a

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Speaker 3: person snowboarding and it was like, wow, this is really

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Speaker 3: cool and I wanted to snowboard. So I dropped out

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Speaker 3: of my racing team on the ski side and I

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Speaker 3: bought my first snowboard. And this was when Craig Kelly,

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Speaker 3: these guys we were just about starting and so I

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Speaker 3: was one of the first snowboards in Switzerland. I was

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Speaker 3: very young. I was ten eleven years old, and you

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Speaker 3: know when you're young and you have the environment that

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Speaker 3: I learned very quickly and I went on. I became

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Speaker 3: part of this was international team, I got sponsored, I

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Speaker 3: got to travel. This was this is really good, and

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Speaker 3: you know, but then somebody got really serious. People were

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Speaker 3: going for the Olympics, and some of my friends ended

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Speaker 3: up going. And I didn't like the training. I didn't

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Speaker 3: like the running I had to do. I hated running,

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Speaker 3: and and yeah I did, I did mountain biking. But

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Speaker 3: then they're also I liked the downhill stuff, the thrill.

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Speaker 3: I raced downhill for a while. I liked the big

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Speaker 3: chumps and all that, and the endurance ports was always hard.

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Speaker 3: And then many many years later, I connected with my

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Speaker 3: co founder, Olivier, who was a very good try athlete,

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Speaker 3: and and yeah, he he ended up giving me a

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Speaker 3: prototype of onunds, and all of a sudden, running was

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Speaker 3: less painful and it was more fun. And I started

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Speaker 3: running more and I started running almost every day, and

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Speaker 3: and that's how I became a runner.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of crazy, right, because I feel like there

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Speaker 1: are so many barriers for some people to court become

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Speaker 1: a runner. Like you feel like you don't have the

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Speaker 1: level of endurance like you're talking about, or you feel

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Speaker 1: that I just don't have the time, or you feel like, please,

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Speaker 1: I can come up with a thousand excuses. So you're saying,

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Speaker 1: for you, all you needed was the right shoe, because

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Speaker 1: I still feel like for some people you could be like,

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Speaker 1: this shoe is going to make you run a mile

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Speaker 1: in four minutes, and they'll be like, but I don't

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Speaker 1: really like running?

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Speaker 3: Yes, you know. This is actually a choke I use

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Speaker 3: often when I'm when I give a presentation, ask people

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Speaker 3: do you run? And then hands go up, and then

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Speaker 3: like do you enjoy it? And then all the hands

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Speaker 3: go down, you know, and then and obviously here we

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Speaker 3: were talking to a group of runers that are about

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Speaker 3: to run the New York City Marathon. If you're a

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Speaker 3: runner and you want to feel what it feels like

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Speaker 3: for a non runner to start running, just stop running

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Speaker 3: for half a year and try to get back into it,

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Speaker 3: and it's really really hard. Right. So for me, my

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Speaker 3: problem is I'm six foot four, so my core is

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Speaker 3: maybe not the strongest. One of my lex is a

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Speaker 3: little bit shorter and much stronger from snowboardings. I always

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Speaker 3: had an IT band issue, so eight ten fifteen K

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Speaker 3: in Toron I would get this six cruciating pain and

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Speaker 3: with the on system, the clouds that went away. I

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Speaker 3: didn't have that pain anymore. So I had the asurance

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Speaker 3: from outain biking and then from growing up in the

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Speaker 3: Alps ski touring and all that, so then running actually

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Speaker 3: became pretty easy.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the clouds for someone who's never

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Speaker 1: seen an on sneaker. Essentially, what you're looking at is

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Speaker 1: like a sneaker that's got what you call to be

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Speaker 1: clouds on the bottom, which really looks like semi circles

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Speaker 1: with holes in the middle, and they're supposed to make

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Speaker 1: me feel really great and make me super fast. When

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Speaker 1: you first saw the on sneak guard design, were you like,

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Speaker 1: this looks bizarre?

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Speaker 3: It was. It was really really weird, you know it.

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Speaker 3: Actually it started a little bit earlier. Olivia, my co founder,

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Speaker 3: he called me and said, hey, I invented this running

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Speaker 3: shoe and I need help in and bringing it to market.

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Speaker 3: Can I come see you. At the time, I was

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Speaker 3: a brand consultant for a company called Young RUPI Kim

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Speaker 3: in Switzerland led out on the phone. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you're stupid. I mean, there's no you know that nobody's

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Speaker 3: waiting for a new running shoe company, and there is

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Speaker 3: a six Stars night, there's a new balance. There's no

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Speaker 3: chance you're going to succeed, and he persisted. He came

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Speaker 3: in and he showed me this product. I was like,

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Speaker 3: it looked like a soccer cleat, you know, like a football.

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Speaker 3: Sh was like, that's weird. And then I put it on,

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Speaker 3: it felt even weirder. And that's that was actually the

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Speaker 3: first hurdle we had to overcome. You know, as we're

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Speaker 3: in New York City. I'll tell you a story. The

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Speaker 3: first time we came into New York, we went to

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Speaker 3: see a store called Jack Rabbit, and at least they

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Speaker 3: gave us an appointment. I don't think Paragone gave us

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Speaker 3: one back then, but they gave us an appointment. And

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Speaker 3: basically the buyer they just she just laughed at us.

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Speaker 3: She was a really mean woman and yuah, and she

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Speaker 3: refused to put the shoes on. So imagine this. We

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Speaker 3: had traveled from Switzerland to New York just to see her,

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Speaker 3: and she refused to put the shoes on because they

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Speaker 3: were so weird looking.

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Speaker 2: And then what happened?

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Speaker 1: Did you just like tell that story and then we

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Speaker 1: never came.

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Speaker 3: Back like well, then then we walked out because Ollie

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Speaker 3: and I we we had this thing. We refused to

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Speaker 3: talk about the shoes or the tech if somebody hadn't

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Speaker 3: tried it, because it's a very unique sensation. And and

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Speaker 3: and then we know we we we started sending out

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Speaker 3: test shoes to all the important stores, you know, and

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Speaker 3: you have to know a lot of the running stores

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Speaker 3: are founded and owned by former professional runners. We were like, hey, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is this is a really good product. Then you

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Speaker 3: know they will see the benefit of it. The problem

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Speaker 3: was that they thought it was so weird. They probably

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Speaker 3: were afraid of getting injured, so they even though they

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Speaker 3: received the free pair, they would never try them. So

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Speaker 3: we changed strategies again and we started going on runs

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Speaker 3: with store owners and and that's how that's how we started.

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Speaker 3: We literally I would I would call an account saying

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Speaker 3: in Hamburg, Germany, which is a two hour flight from Zurich,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, hey, I'll be in the city

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Speaker 3: this week and you want to go for a run,

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Speaker 3: And he's like, yeah, sure, Wednesday morning would run. I

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Speaker 3: would work and then I would book a flight and

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Speaker 3: hotel if I there, spend the night and just for

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Speaker 3: that one run.

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Speaker 2: And it's an expensive run.

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Speaker 3: It's an expensive run, but it's worth it, and and

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Speaker 3: that's how we started. And today On has about five

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Speaker 3: thousand stores globally that that carried the product, and between

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Speaker 3: the three founders, we've probably run with six to eight

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Speaker 3: hundred of them.

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Speaker 1: Keeps you fit, keeps you fit, keeps the guy running

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Speaker 1: who didn't really like running in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you backtrack a little bit again.

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Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, the shoe looks weird, but I'm interested

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Speaker 1: in it.

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Speaker 2: It feels good.

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Speaker 1: And at the time you're talking about your friend, your

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Speaker 1: friend Ali, but you're not talking about David. So how

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Speaker 1: did the three of you come together to create this company.

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Speaker 3: I had always wanted to be an entrepreneur, and the

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Speaker 3: reason for that is I don't like people telling me

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Speaker 3: what I have to do. So the problem is, you know,

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Speaker 3: with starting a company, you need to have an idea,

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Speaker 3: and David and David had that same same dream. And

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Speaker 3: we had worked together for two companies, McKinsey and Company

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Speaker 3: Management consultancy and the branding company, and so we were

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Speaker 3: brainstorming all these crazy ideas and you know, we had

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Speaker 3: maybe five or six years and none of them are

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Speaker 3: really good, and we got frustrated and we decided to

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Speaker 3: go on a long hike. It just was up in

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Speaker 3: the mountains and I never made the connection between the

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Speaker 3: weird running shoe that I saw maybe two months earlier

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Speaker 3: and our struggle to find a business idea until I

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Speaker 3: was on this hike and in the Swiss National Park

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Speaker 3: and I was like, hey, David, you know this might

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Speaker 3: sign it sound a little strange, but what about a

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Speaker 3: run issue company? And he's like, are you crazy? And

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Speaker 3: I explained and and on that two hour hike we

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Speaker 3: we actually came up with a lot of the ideas

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Speaker 3: that are now the foundation of On. And then I

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Speaker 3: introduced him to Olivia and yeah, that's that's how we

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Speaker 3: started the three of Us.

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Speaker 2: And where does the name come from?

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Speaker 3: So when when you put a pair of ons on

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Speaker 3: U pun intended, it feels like you're switched on the

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Speaker 3: these cloud elements they are. They act like little Swiss

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Speaker 3: balls under your feet, so you're balancing on them and

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Speaker 3: what that does it activates your postural muscles, so you

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Speaker 3: feel switched on. And we had about eight hundred names.

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Speaker 3: Mind you, we came from the branding side, so we

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Speaker 3: asked him of our copywriters to to come up with names,

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Speaker 3: and the best on there was probably paused like a bear,

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Speaker 3: you know, with the paw, which is obviously every stupid name.

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Speaker 3: So one morning, one morning, I came back from a

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Speaker 3: run and there was a TV production car parked in

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Speaker 3: my street. It said ON Films. I was like, on,

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Speaker 3: that's kind of catchy. And then we went on and

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Speaker 3: we went out and the and uh and and on

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Speaker 3: was still available and uh yeah. So that's that's how

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Speaker 3: we got about.

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Speaker 1: So let's sorry to interrupt you, but I want to

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Speaker 1: I'm still kind of curious about the cloud.

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Speaker 2: So I just can't stop looking at it.

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Speaker 1: What I want to know a little bit more, I

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Speaker 1: guess about is the engineering behind it, because I watched

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Speaker 1: a lot of YouTube videos. Let me tell you, guys

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Speaker 1: have a lot of YouTube content on the content. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I'm just I feel like this is gonna be puns

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Speaker 1: on my Within the content, it's that you see, you

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Speaker 1: can watch videos of what happens to this shoe as

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Speaker 1: it compresses and as you lift off. And so from

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Speaker 1: what I've learned of the mentality behind ON, it's that

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Speaker 1: they act like pillows, so when you step down, it's

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Speaker 1: super cushiony. Then the pillows compress and it gives you

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Speaker 1: a hard surface to spring off of. So it's like

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Speaker 1: combining a cloud with.

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Speaker 2: A tracks mic.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly.

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Speaker 2: Man, I'm good at this, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Do you know you want to know where then

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Speaker 3: income came from the clouds?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So you know, when you start a business, you're scared.

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Speaker 3: Can I spare it on this show or not?

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Speaker 2: I would prefer if you did it.

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Speaker 3: You're scared. You're scared a lot. And uh so, you know,

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Speaker 3: we did some some testing and we went to a

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Speaker 3: big event in Zurich, it ironm and Switzerland. We rented

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Speaker 3: a booth and we had some tests to stare and

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Speaker 3: a hundred people or so put the shoes on and

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Speaker 3: ran in them. And I remember this lady from Germany.

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Speaker 3: She came back after her testaurant and her eyes were

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Speaker 3: wide open and she was like, oh my god, these shoes.

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Speaker 3: It feels like it feels like walking on clouds. And

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, that's kind of that's kind of neat.

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Speaker 3: And you know, like Nike had air and we have clouds.

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Speaker 3: Would you rather walk on air or on clouds? So

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Speaker 3: you know, we we we did clouds.

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Speaker 2: It was clouds.

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Speaker 1: It was okay, So oh, round of a pause, first

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Speaker 1: live podcast round of a Pause. I've been at eight

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Speaker 1: thirty six pm. I always remember this moment.

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Speaker 2: Guys.

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Speaker 1: All right, so you've got some clouds, you've got one

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Speaker 1: hundred people trying on your shoes.

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Speaker 2: I want to know more about that.

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Speaker 1: Like, obviously when you came to New York City, they

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Speaker 1: weren't as enthusiastic about this weird looking piece of footwear.

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Speaker 3: Well, but that's the thing. They who stay, I mean,

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Speaker 3: the the retailers weren't so the average runner person, you know,

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Speaker 3: they were less opinionated about, Hey, I know this stuff.

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Speaker 3: You know, this is how a good running shue was built.

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Speaker 3: They had they were they had probably less of a

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Speaker 3: preconceived that year. And another group that was very receptive

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Speaker 3: to the product was runners with injuries. And one very

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Speaker 3: famous runner with injuries was Takela Lorup. She won New

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Speaker 3: York City Marathon twice. She has the world record on

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Speaker 3: pretty much every distance. And she got word of this

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Speaker 3: wonder product from Switzerland and she called us and she

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Speaker 3: literally said, hell, I'm takel loop from knee like the tackle.

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Speaker 3: She's like yeah, and she had an appointment with the Pope.

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Speaker 3: That's how famous she is, all right, So she she

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Speaker 3: did a fundraise and she ran from somewhere in Germany

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Speaker 3: to Rome to meet with the Pope, and she had

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Speaker 3: about twenty people run with her to raise awareness or

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Speaker 3: her money for her foundation. And so they ended up

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Speaker 3: doing about eighty k a day over one thousand k,

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Speaker 3: and she ran in a pair of on cloud surfers,

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Speaker 3: very prototype, and she was the only person of the

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Speaker 3: group that was able to run every day. So she

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Speaker 3: went from being injured and not being able to run

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Speaker 3: to doing that, and then you know, we're good around

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Speaker 3: Then we got a really famous triathlete in the shoes

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Speaker 3: that was known for being very strong on the swim

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Speaker 3: and the bike, but she would lose the World championships

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Speaker 3: on the last ten k in the run because she

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Speaker 3: would end up walking. And before I knew it, she

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Speaker 3: she came thirty seconds to the Roman world record. That

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Speaker 3: got work, got out and we ended up getting the

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Speaker 3: Roman world record by Freddie Fanlde two years later, and

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Speaker 3: we got an Olympic silver medal by an athlete that

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Speaker 3: was usually injured. So so you know, that's that's how

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Speaker 3: it started.

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Speaker 1: I've got to ask this first to be an entrepreneur,

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Speaker 1: and I think a lot of entrepreneurs they want they

401
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Speaker 1: want to do that, or maybe they're forced into doing it,

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Speaker 1: whatever the case may be.

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Speaker 2: Just because you want it doesn't mean you have the

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Speaker 2: money to fund it.

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Speaker 1: So where in the earliest stages of on does the

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Speaker 1: funding come from, especially when you're kind of dealing with

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Speaker 1: this hurdle, which is that people that don't really know running,

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Speaker 1: which might be the people that are could give you money,

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Speaker 1: are like, eh, this looks kind of weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I mean we were not fresh out of university,

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Speaker 3: you know, we are we had careers. Only was a

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Speaker 3: professional athlete. David and I. We we were in management

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Speaker 3: and we had some savings. We also had some some

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Speaker 3: mortgages in our house and everything. But we had about

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Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty grand each that we put into

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Speaker 3: on And remember we we spoke to some people that

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Speaker 3: that that were in the industry and we were like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: what do you think how much money does it take

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Speaker 3: to to start a run issue company? And the agreed

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Speaker 3: on number was about five million. We had four hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty and some of it was in cash even

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Speaker 3: so that's how that's how we started. And uh, look,

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Speaker 3: you know you have to be a little bit crazy.

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Speaker 3: You have to be a little bit naive and and

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Speaker 3: and it worked and people liked it, people bought it,

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Speaker 3: and we grew.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So right now I have a statistic, Give me

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Speaker 1: a statistic about On's position in the market right now.

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Speaker 2: It's rapidly growing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so so On is by far the fast growing

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Speaker 3: running shoe brand globally. Since we started. Every year we've

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Speaker 3: grown on an average of eighty two percent. This year

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Speaker 3: is over seventy percent. And we're doing this across the globe.

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Speaker 3: We're in about fifty countries. The biggest running shoe markets

435
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Speaker 3: are the US, Germany and Japanese are also our biggest markets.

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Speaker 3: In the US, we're probably the number eight or seventh

437
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Speaker 3: ranked running brain right now. In Germany we're the number three,

438
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 3: and so what's the number one? So it's actually gone

439
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 3: quite quite fast. But you know, if you look at

440
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 3: a market like the US or Japan, we can quadruple

441
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 3: on sales and we're still you know, we're still just

442
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 3: a blip in the ocean, just a blip.

443
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: But not every year saw such successful growth. So I

444
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: kind of want to hear about the tough stuff, because

445
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: when you're building a company from the ground up with

446
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: two of your buddies. It could seem like the sky's

447
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 1: the limit, and sometimes it just kind of stall it all.

448
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:20,239
Speaker 2: So let's talk about that.

449
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the hardships you had in

450
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: your earlier years starting this company.

451
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the first three or four years were really, really,

452
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 3: really tough. I didn't I don't think I had a

453
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 3: single waking moment where I didn't think about the company

454
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 3: or running shoes, and it really gets to you. And then,

455
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 3: I mean, there's obviously a lot of very positive things

456
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 3: that you do, you experience, but when you're designing, building, shipping,

457
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 3: selling a product, a lot of things can go wrong,

458
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 3: from product not being strong enough, breaking falling apart. One

459
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 3: of their low points was when so this was our

460
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 3: our second season. So we shipped the first product in

461
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 3: July twenty twenty ten, and we got some good response,

462
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 3: and we got some accounts that we had really worked

463
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 3: on for a long time, and they gave us some

464
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 3: initial orders for February twenty eleven ship date, and we

465
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: really wanted to execute on spot. So we sent one

466
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 3: of our guys, our R and D level. He was

467
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 3: an intern, but still he was our R and D guy.

468
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 3: And we sent him to China and he spent the

469
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 3: Christmas and years at the factory and he came back

470
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 3: he's like all good. And the day he landed, we

471
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: got a phone call from China and they said, hey,

472
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 3: we're very sorry for me, but the factory went bankrupt

473
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 3: and all your unfinished product is still in the factory.

474
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 3: The police has sealed the factory. He cannot get it

475
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 3: to get it out. And by the way, it's three

476
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 3: weeks away from Chinese Year where everything shuts down in China.

477
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: So we didn't have any product. And yeah, we were

478
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 3: we were for sure going to die as a company.

479
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 3: But you had orders. We had orders. But you know,

480
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: if you have orders and no product that you can ship,

481
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 3: but that doesn't help. And you know, if a retailer

482
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 3: gives you one chance, and if if you don't deliver,

483
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 3: you're you're out. Yeah, so then you know, we got

484
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 3: into crisis mode. And and and somehow our partner in

485
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 3: China found a way to get the product out of

486
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 3: the factory. But about thirty of it, thirty percent of

487
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 3: it was was dirty. They just literally threw it on

488
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 3: a on a truck and and and and got it

489
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 3: out of the factory as quickly.

490
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 2: As possible, but the factory was sealed.

491
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 3: I wasn't there. I frankly don't want to know, but

492
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 3: the problem was so we had bottom units and operas

493
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 3: that were not put together yet. So then we had

494
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 3: to find another factory. And this is right before Chinese Year,

495
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 3: which is kind of like Christmas, so everybody was about

496
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 3: to go home, so we had to pay the factory

497
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 3: work is triple wages, so they would stay for another

498
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 3: four or five days and put everything together, and then

499
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 3: we couldn't find any any vessels that no vessels would

500
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 3: leave ports, so we had to put everything on a plane. Uh,

501
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 3: you know, and basically all our profit of that season

502
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 3: was gone. But at least we were able to fulfill

503
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 3: the orders.

504
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: Probably a lot of really cool photo ops on that plane,

505
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: all the sneakers.

506
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,959
Speaker 3: Well it was a cargo plane and we probably were

507
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: only small, but this was maybe thirty thousand pairs. Yeah,

508
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: so now you know, if we're delayed in shipping, we

509
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 3: shipping a couple hundred thousand pairs by air, So you know,

510
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 3: now we actually do rent out full planes.

511
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: That's that's normal, just a full plane. Just gonna borrow

512
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: this plane.

513
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: Real quick.

514
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: So you get the shoes. The orders are obviously filled late,

515
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 1: but they're filled, and what does the year overyear look

516
00:26:59,240 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: like at that point?

517
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: So yeah, we we ended doing about triple what we

518
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 3: did in the first half year, which we which was

519
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 3: very good. But then the year after we you know,

520
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 3: I mean, we knew we were going to grow, and

521
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 3: we did one one mistakes that I think a lot

522
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 3: of entrepreneurs make. They take their wildest dreams or highest ambitions,

523
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 3: and that's what they tell that's what they put in

524
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 3: the budget, that's what they tell the bank. And we

525
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 3: did exactly that, and we we grew very quickly. We

526
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 3: almost doubled that year. We think we grew uout eighty percent,

527
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 3: but our plan was to do like plus one hundred

528
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 3: and fifty. So we came short. And we you know,

529
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 3: we we knew we were going to raise some money

530
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 3: to to to finance the next production backge, but we

531
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 3: have planned on a on a round in August and

532
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 3: were out of money end of May early June. So

533
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 3: you know, we had a month where we're like, okay,

534
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 3: are we going to make payroll? We tipped in our

535
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 3: last savings that was very very little, and uh, you

536
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: know that was that was a low point where I was.

537
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 3: My bank account looked like the day I finished college,

538
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 3: even though I had been working for ten years. So

539
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,719
Speaker 3: that that was a very bad, bad moment. And uh,

540
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 3: you know, these are the times when you kind of

541
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 3: find out can you rely on your partners or not?

542
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: Are you trying to take advantage of you or not?

543
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 3: In a bad situation. And luckily everybody was there for us,

544
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: and I knew we had this. I had actually a

545
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: flight planned to the US, and the morning of that flight,

546
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 3: I went, I went to the notary to sign all

547
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 3: the documents. The money was paid in, and you know,

548
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 3: I knew I was either going to be on that

549
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 3: plane miserable or I was going to be very happy.

550
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: So I was already quite happy. Then at the gate

551
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 3: they upgraded me to class. So I went from like

552
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: completely you know, super stressed hour you know, are we

553
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 3: going to go bankrupt? To oh, wow, this is a

554
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: really cool trip where we have money in the bank

555
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: and we can go on.

556
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: So the money is in the bank, But then what

557
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: happens because you start functioning on a low amount of

558
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: funding at the time, So how does it really turn around?

559
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 3: About three and a half years in we started being profitable.

560
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: That's a pretty quick turnaround for a young company.

561
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: It is at the same time, and we you know,

562
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: we run on a pre proven business model. It's not

563
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 3: like you're you know, if you're an internet company and

564
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: you're just scaling like crazy and you're trying to get

565
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 3: gain market share. With us, it's basically, we build product,

566
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: we sell it to a retailer at the profit, and

567
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 3: they sell it at a profit to it to the

568
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 3: end consumer. That's pretty straightforward then, and we had to

569
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: kind of maybe toned down our growth ambitions a little

570
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: bit to make that happen. But it's the best thing.

571
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 3: It's the best feeling in the world to be profitable.

572
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: How did it feel at that point when you were

573
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: kind of worried about letting down your employees and how

574
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: did you handle that mentally? What did you do after

575
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: that when you kind of got through it.

576
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a moment where everything got too much,

577
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 3: you know, and you have trouble sleeping, and you know,

578
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 3: the good thing is, you know, sports is always there

579
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: for you. And so I just jumped on my bike

580
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: and I said I need a weekend off and I

581
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 3: rode my bike through the Swiss helps at about maybe

582
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty and forty k and three thousand

583
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 3: meters of climbing every day. And it was a really

584
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 3: really cool experiences just to clean my head. And this

585
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 3: was when the tourtois Wist was going on, so I

586
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 3: was basically following the pros. I was always like one

587
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 3: day behind on the stages, and yeah, I was just

588
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 3: cleaning my head. I was, I was. I came back

589
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 3: with a very clear vision and had a really cool experience. Uh,

590
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: my last day of riding, they I I was at

591
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 3: the start line of the of a of a time

592
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,239
Speaker 3: trial that they did and they mistook me for one

593
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: of the riders in the race. So the police they

594
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 3: they they waved me in and uh they know they

595
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 3: wanted me to start the races. No, I'm just here

596
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 3: to watch the race. It's actually pretty funny. So it

597
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 3: all turned out, well.

598
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: Did you raise?

599
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 3: I didn't race.

600
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: Okay, So you go on the.

601
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: Bike tour, you clear your head, and you come back

602
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: and do you feel reinvigorated to kind of get back

603
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: into the saddle with your company.

604
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: See that that's the thing, you know, building a company

605
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 3: is not a sprint. It's a marathon. So you know,

606
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 3: there's the smith out there about you know, being in

607
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 3: a startup entrepreneur and and and and sleeping at the

608
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: office and that only goes a certain a certain way,

609
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 3: a certain distance, and then you just burn out. And

610
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 3: and I feel that's that's a real risk. And I

611
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 3: think when when you're when you're not sleeping enough, not

612
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: eating well, not exercising, you're not You're not that you're

613
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 3: at your peak. So so when I see now when

614
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 3: I coach young people that you know, we obviously a

615
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 3: lot of people reach out now and they want to

616
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: get advice. That's one of the things. It's like, hey,

617
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: look look out after yourself and then try not to

618
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 3: burn out and and and that's the good thing about exercising,

619
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: you know, on we have this thing running is part

620
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 3: of your job. So if you want to go for

621
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 3: a run at ten in the morning or four in

622
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 3: the afternoon, or if you want to do a workout

623
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 3: during a long meeting, that that's that's all.

624
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: Okay, quick break from today's episode with Casper to give

625
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,840
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626
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,479
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627
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628
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629
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: one thousand errands, gearing up to run twenty six point two.

630
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: Miles through the five borrows on.

631
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,280
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632
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633
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634
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635
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636
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637
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639
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640
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641
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: And now let's get back to it.

642
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: So talk to me a little bit about growing the company,

643
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 1: because it starts with the three of you and then

644
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: you slowly get employees.

645
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 2: Do you even remember your first hire at this point?

646
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: I remember very very well. So our first hire. I

647
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 3: was a girl, Karina was her name. She had her

648
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 3: first day in my kitchen so she's she had her

649
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 3: first day of work actually at my house in my kitchen,

650
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 3: and we we we hired her from a from a

651
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 3: Ski Ski Bear brand in Switzerland, and she probably like

652
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 3: the day she walked into into my house, he was like,

653
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 3: what did I do? Why did I leave my job?

654
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 3: And why am I sitting in the kitchen and with

655
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: these weird guys. This year alone, we grew from one

656
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty people to three hundred and eight people.

657
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: So so you know, that's another hurdle when you're when

658
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 3: you're small, you're able to touch every single person in

659
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 3: the company, You're able to to to see what they're doing,

660
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 3: and you're able to leave by example. As soon as

661
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: you get to say, sixty eighty people, that you can

662
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 3: no longer do that. Especially we have offices now in

663
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 3: about seven locations around the world world. So you know,

664
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 3: that's where when when when culture and values coming to play.

665
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 3: And we were very, very afraid that that the culture

666
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,919
Speaker 3: we had builded on would you know, be taken over

667
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 3: by outsiders. Now these people come, they jon us from

668
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 3: Google or Nike or other brands, and that is a

669
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 3: that was a real, real fear and challenge. But it's

670
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 3: turning out that, uh, you know, we have people that

671
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 3: start with with ON maybe three months ago, and you know,

672
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 3: and they meet the new b and then you'll be saying, oh,

673
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 3: have you been with ON for a long time? Yeah, forever?

674
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 3: You know, it feels like forever. And they're already passing

675
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 3: on the values. That's it's pretty cool to see.

676
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: I had David Seek on the podcast.

677
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 1: He's the creator of a program at Equinox Cup Precision Running,

678
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: and David said to me that if you try to

679
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: do too many things good, you'll never do one thing great.

680
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's applicable to where you're at

681
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: now in your company, and that you have to learn

682
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: to lot go.

683
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 2: When you get comfortable doing that.

684
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I feel like so much of being

685
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur is getting comfortable with the uncomfortable. So when

686
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: your team almost doubles in size, that had to be

687
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: stressful for you.

688
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 3: Oh, it's super stressful. You know. If I look back

689
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: over the last year, that was probably what I am

690
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: My colleagues we lost sleep over the most. But you

691
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 3: know the thing is if you know that they're just saying,

692
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 3: if everything feels under control, you're not going fast enough.

693
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 3: And that's actually very true. So, you know, growing at

694
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 3: the speed that on it early on, we had to

695
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 3: we had to learn how to let go. So what

696
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 3: we tried to do is we tried to you know,

697
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 3: say some you know, somebody takes ten decisions during the month,

698
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 3: the way I see it, if they have values as

699
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 3: a guideline and they know that they're actually want to

700
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 3: we want to take, they'll probably take five decisions exactly

701
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: the way I would. They will take three or four

702
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: that I would take differently, but they don't really matter.

703
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 3: And maybe one where you know, I don't I don't agree,

704
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 3: and then let's talk about that one and and and

705
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 3: learn from that and then help them make a better

706
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 3: decision next time. But it's better than not to take

707
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 3: these decisions. So you know, as long as you're moving

708
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 3: in the right direction, we care less about whether it's

709
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 3: a light you know, dark dark gray or light gray.

710
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: Okay, so the company is growing rapidly.

711
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 1: What was it like for you when you guys started

712
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: to really expand into the foreign markets. Like you said,

713
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: you're probably about number eight here in the United States,

714
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 1: But when you started to come here and you would

715
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: see your product on the shelves and that must have

716
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: been kind.

717
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: Of a trip.

718
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 3: Oh it is. It is the biggest trip ever. I

719
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: still have this habit. I don't do it in Switzerland anymore,

720
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 3: but I say, I'm in Shanghai, or remember maybe two

721
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 3: three years ago in San Francisco. But I was running

722
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 3: and I saw I saw someone in a pair of

723
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 3: you know what. I thought it was a pair of ones,

724
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 3: and so I ran out after that person happened to

725
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 3: be a woman, and I, you know, I caught her,

726
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 3: caught up with her in this dark alley, you know,

727
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 3: and I'm like, like, how do you like your shoes?

728
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 3: Just like he said?

729
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 2: Weirdo?

730
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 3: You know, but it never it never gets old. And

731
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: you know when you're when you're in Tokyo and you

732
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 3: see somebody wearing your shoes, it's a very cool thing.

733
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: You know. That's a really creepy story.

734
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's one of hundreds that happened, but

735
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 3: it's one that's memorable.

736
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: When you look at your current position in the market

737
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: and kind of as this industry is evolving as a whole,

738
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: like what do you hope that on is bringing to

739
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: the table now? Because I feel like, what's interesting about

740
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: the company is that it is so rooted in research,

741
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of the time when you

742
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: go to buy a pair of sneakers, the first thing

743
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: that someone at a great running store like Paragon would

744
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: say to you is, don't buy based on aesthetics. You

745
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: gotta buy based on how you feel. So for you, guys, uh,

746
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: what do you hope that you're bringing to the table

747
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: in this market?

748
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 3: I think you know, if if the store tells you

749
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 3: that you should buy based on field, that's already progress

750
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 3: from where we were maybe five years ago, when people

751
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 3: would almost like prescribe a running or you're your pronating

752
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 3: you need a post because there's a lot of research

753
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 3: out that actually shows if they feel good for you,

754
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 3: they are actually good for you. Because everybody, every person

755
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 3: has their own way of moving. So you know, basically,

756
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 3: we're we're we're engineering that sensation, that's feeling and and

757
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: and we hope that if somebody puts on a pair

758
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,240
Speaker 3: of Bonds they will feel the best in that store.

759
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 3: We're you know, we're based in Switzerland, and coming out

760
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 3: of Switzerland, you cannot make a mediocre product because people

761
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 3: expect highest quality but also price wise, you know, we're

762
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 3: we're probably the most expensive country in the world, and

763
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: we have a lot of staff and all our engineering

764
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: there so On only makes very high end product that

765
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: have a certain price point and we hope that that

766
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 3: that's people feel that and they appreciate it, and that

767
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 3: they're willing to spend the extra book and that that

768
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 3: will go a long way.

769
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: When you look over the past, what has it been

770
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: eight years now, and you think about some of the

771
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: hardships and the missteps that you've had, what would you say,

772
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: at this point may have been one of your most

773
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: successful quote unquote failures from this time with On, so

774
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: something that's gone drastically wrong but has kind of shaped

775
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: you and maybe your company to be a little bit better.

776
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I'd say about two years ago, we launched

777
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 3: a trail running shoe called the Cloud Venture. And we're

778
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 3: pretty we always have a tight sketchule, so we had

779
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 3: to see planned in Park City, Utah. We flew about

780
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 3: sixty retails and journalists there and you know, the product,

781
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 3: it's a really really, really cool product. It's very runnable.

782
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 3: Our athletes loved it. All the tests has loved it.

783
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 3: So we gave you know, the shoes had just come

784
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 3: in from a factory. We hadn't even unpacked, and we

785
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 3: literally hand them out out of the box of a

786
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 3: plane and we went on a run. It was a

787
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 3: beautiful run, and you know, spirits were high. And we

788
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 3: got back to the hotel or to the lodge, and

789
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 3: we did some stretching and we started looking at people's

790
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 3: shoes and the shoes were falling apart, and we're like, holy,

791
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 3: I'm not supposed to s fair. So it turned out

792
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 3: about thirty percent of the shoes were broken, and it

793
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 3: you know, we learned that the manufacturer had changed of

794
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 3: the specs last minute and it wasn't durable enough. And

795
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 3: you know, at this point we were like, okay, we

796
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 3: have to do a full recall. And you know, we

797
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: did a quick math and it would have cost us

798
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,760
Speaker 3: about two million dollars, which was pretty much the profit

799
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 3: that we were going to do that full year. So

800
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 3: you know, that was a really really, really bad situation.

801
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 3: But then you know, as we as we we we

802
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 3: started analyzing, we saw the problem was serious, but not

803
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 3: that serious, so we didn't do a recall, and we

804
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 3: made some some running changes on the product and and

805
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 3: we you know, we replaced the shoes that broke and

806
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 3: the shoe. The shoe was well received. So what we

807
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 3: learned is even if it feels like the world's coming

808
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 3: to an end, it usually doesn't, you know, And we

809
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 3: got very resilient. So in the beginning it felt like

810
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 3: on would go bankrupt or you know, the world will

811
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 3: come to an end, which is at that point pretty

812
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 3: much the same thing. Once a week, and then it's

813
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 3: once a month, and it's once a semester. And now

814
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 3: the world hasn't ended in in two or three years,

815
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 3: two years, so so so we definitely learned from that

816
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 3: and we're very cool now. So something really bad happens

817
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 3: and you know, some staff coming in they're like, oh,

818
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 3: you know, we have this huge problem and we're like

819
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 3: all cool and relaxed, and they're like, oh wow, we

820
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 3: guys are really really cool, and we're like, well, we've

821
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 3: been there before.

822
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 2: You learn from it, You learn from it.

823
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: Someone once told me that if you're tripping, or if

824
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: you're tripping or falling, most of the time, at least

825
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: you're falling forward. And I always think about that when

826
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: I'm like having a total misstep, I'm like, at least

827
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: it's a miss step in the right direction, like it's

828
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: just small progress.

829
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, And people tend to stress out about things Like

830
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 3: if you're stressing out about an opportunity, say a sponsorship

831
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 3: you could do, or you know, this great thing that

832
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 3: might go away, sometimes it's just good to sleep over it,

833
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 3: or you know, take a step back and if it

834
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 3: does go away, maybe it wasn't the greatest opportunity.

835
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: You said at the beginning of On that it was

836
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: like in your mind twenty four seven, you woke up

837
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: drammed to eight.

838
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 2: You slap everything you did was on.

839
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: How would you say now that you find that work

840
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,760
Speaker 1: life balance with this bustling company.

841
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, my work is also my life.

842
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 3: You know, I don't necessarily make a difference, but I

843
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 3: can chill out now. I can have other thoughts. I

844
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 3: can I can think about other people's stuff more than

845
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 3: about mind. Say when I go on a vacation. I

846
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 3: was on a surf trip earlier this year for two weeks.

847
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 3: I did not once check my email. I did not

848
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 3: once look. You know, I didn't get any voicemail or anything.

849
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 3: We have this thing where if somebody's off, if the

850
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 3: world ends, they get a text message, but only if

851
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,479
Speaker 3: they can save the world, otherwise you will know about

852
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 3: it when when you get back. And that's actually a

853
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 3: pretty good system. So yeah, definitely things have have improved

854
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 3: the early days.

855
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: Have you ever been the world saver?

856
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's really a team effort. So that's

857
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 3: one thing that you know as es me. You know,

858
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 3: how did they be come into the picture? We knew

859
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 3: were trying the impossible. We're trying to create a performance

860
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 3: shoe company when there's already enough of them. So we

861
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 3: knew we needed a very strong team. And one thing

862
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 3: that that on this is in twenty thirteen, we realized

863
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 3: that three founders, we were always the bottleneck, so decisions

864
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 3: would stall with us, and and we decided to bring

865
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 3: on two more people. And typically what you would do

866
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 3: is you would build below you because it feels great

867
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 3: to be the boss. We did the opposite. We built

868
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 3: next to us. So we brought in two people even

869
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 3: though they weren't there at the beginning, that are equals

870
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 3: with us now a CFO and a CEO. And now

871
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 3: we have a lot more capacity. And you know, when

872
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 3: I'm on a on a surf trip or our snowboard trip,

873
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 3: I re appreciated that I know there's four other guys

874
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 3: looking after the business, and when they're away, I'm looking

875
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 3: after their They're part of the business as well.

876
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 2: So we talked about failure.

877
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: But when you look at the last eight years, what

878
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: would you say has been one of the best pieces

879
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 1: of advice that you've been offered as an entrepreneur.

880
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 3: You're surprised me with all these questions. A bit more

881
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 3: fun that way, though, Yeah. I one piece of advice

882
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 3: I got recently was that, you know, in a partnership

883
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 3: like the five of us us have, it's about serving

884
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 3: the others. Like something that I do, I do it

885
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 3: for the others, and I want to do it well

886
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 3: because I'm doing it for them. I'm not doing it

887
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 3: for myself or I'm not asking them to do something

888
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 3: for me. But I contribute to the whole thing. And

889
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 3: the other thing is that works as long as everybody

890
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 3: has the same drive and the same standard and that

891
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 3: they want to achieve the same the same outcome, and

892
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 3: luckily the five of us were in a situation. But

893
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 3: that was a very surprising view from somebody that had

894
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:15,720
Speaker 3: worked in a partnership for many years.

895
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: My mentor always told me that he feels like he's

896
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 1: been this successful.

897
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 2: His name is Fred Santapia. He's episode three. I think

898
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 2: I've heardle.

899
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: He told me that he found success by always hiring

900
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: people that he felt like were at the time or

901
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: maybe still are better than him. So by hiring people

902
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: that just totally blew his socks off, he knew that

903
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: he was building a strong team. Whereas I think that

904
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: a lot of people can feel intimidated or taken aback

905
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: by someone that challenges them, and they play it safe

906
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: by maybe not partnering with them or working with them,

907
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: But in reality, what kind of service is that actually doing?

908
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 3: Fully agree to that, So I've been I've been making

909
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 3: myself redundant every six months at on, you know, basically

910
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 3: you know where We've been hiring so many people and

911
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 3: they they they do what you know. In the beginning,

912
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 3: I packed shoe boxes. I'm no longer doing that. We

913
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 3: have people that are very good at packing shoe boxes.

914
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 3: But we also hired sales directors that now look after

915
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 3: accounts or whole countries that I started and I don't

916
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 3: even go there anymore. Like you know, Switzerland, our home market,

917
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 3: we're with the number one brand there. We have about

918
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 3: four percent market chare. I hardly spend any time there

919
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 3: with the accounts or the media or the athletes sponsor,

920
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 3: and it's great. You know, when I'm at home, I

921
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 3: feel like a tourist. You know, I can, I can

922
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 3: move about and you know, it's not business. It's a

923
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 3: very good feeling because we have somebody taking care of

924
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 3: their market.

925
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: We're obviously here in New York right now with the

926
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: marathon on Sunday. Like I said, it's a super exciting time.

927
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: As someone who learned to love running, what kind of

928
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: advice would you offer to other runners who either sometimes

929
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 1: feel like they're at a low point or maybe it's

930
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: you know, mile sixteen at the Queensboro and they're like,

931
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: why the hell did I sign up for us to

932
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:16,439
Speaker 1: begin with?

933
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 2: What do you say to them?

934
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 3: We definitely hang in there. You know, it's it's embarrassment.

935
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 3: It's not a sprint. So you know, even if you're

936
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 3: maybe not feeling well, you eat something, you drink something,

937
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 3: and just give it a little time and your strength

938
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 3: will come back. You know, when you're and you're racing

939
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 3: the first time, it's easy to get carried away. You know,

940
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 3: training feels hard, but racing feels like you're flying and

941
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 3: all these people around you and you're going with the flow.

942
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 3: And so you say you have a race strategy and

943
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 3: you want to run a three thirty or four hour marathon,

944
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 3: stick with that pacemaker. They know what they're doing, you know.

945
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 3: If they're the three thirty pace maker, you could probably

946
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 3: run a two forty five, But they're doing it for you.

947
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 3: And if you get a that allowed it out of

948
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 3: kind of running after the three twenty pace maker, you'll

949
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 3: suffer and you'll end up with the four hour pacemaker

950
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 3: before you know it.

951
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 1: I interviewed Chilean plan again last week, and she told

952
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: me that to PR this marathon, I had to run

953
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: negative splits, and if I didn't run negative splits, I

954
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna PR the marathon, which is scary. I mean,

955
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: it's not scary like I'm gonna survive, but PR the marathon.

956
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: But I feel like it's like you can plan, just

957
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 1: like within business, right, you can plan and plan and

958
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 1: plan for all the variables. But until you're in the moment,

959
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: sometimes even the best planners are gonna hit a hrle

960
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: along the way.

961
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know the thing with the negative splits that

962
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 3: usually doesn't work.

963
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 2: Oh, come on, she is such a pro. No, you're

964
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 2: giving me a different advice here.

965
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not something that the regular people should try.

966
00:50:54,840 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 2: So what should I do? Tell me? I need to know,

967
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: you know.

968
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 3: Just take it easy. I mean, if you're able to

969
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 3: run the second half of your mouth and faster than

970
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 3: the first half, it's probably a good strategy.

971
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm game for that goals right, all right, So

972
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna start to wrap.

973
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 2: This up here, final two questions.

974
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: We're in the we're a mile twenty five and a

975
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: half of twenty six point two twenty six. Maybe we're

976
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: in the point too, Maybe we're in the final spread. Anyway, Okay,

977
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: you right now, meet someone that feels like you did

978
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 1: when you are kind of being approached by these guys

979
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: with this rocky idea, and this person doesn't even know,

980
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: like how to begin. What's a piece of advice you

981
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 1: give to someone who wants to start something of their.

982
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 3: Own, Get on the playing field. You know, there's a

983
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 3: lot of people that overthink it, and they're they're afraid,

984
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 3: and they, as you say, they don't know where to

985
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 3: start to start, and and ask people, you know, the

986
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 3: that's that's the main thing. Pretty much everything has already

987
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 3: been done. So you ask people that have done it,

988
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 3: and and and they will they will tell you how

989
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 3: they did it, and that that will lead to other

990
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,720
Speaker 3: people that they know and and and that's for example,

991
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 3: how we found our first manufacturer. We had never manufactured anything,

992
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 3: definitely not a shoe. And we found somebody that knew

993
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 3: somebody that made Choose. They were not running shoes or

994
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 3: performance shoes, but they introduced somebney that they knew, and

995
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 3: and so on, and that's how we end up finding

996
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 3: our first factor in China.

997
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 2: For the guy who.

998
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: Is anxiously taking out the last money that he has.

999
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,399
Speaker 1: Right now as you sit here, you have the opportunity

1000
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: to offer the casper that's maybe like I need to

1001
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: take this bike tour. I got to get the hell

1002
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 1: out of here. He's conquering that figurative hurtle moment. What

1003
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: kind of advice do you offer to him now? Looking

1004
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: back on.

1005
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:16,959
Speaker 3: It, Well, looking back is always a lot easier. Look,

1006
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 3: we're we're you know, we're holding onto things way too

1007
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 3: much as people you know, and and and we had

1008
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 3: this thing where we said, look if we failed with

1009
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 3: on we're just going to go and you know, we're

1010
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 3: just going to get a job and get back to work.

1011
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 3: You know this this it felt like this, this wasn't work.

1012
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: This was fulfilling our dream. And I never felt freer

1013
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 3: than in that moment where I had lost all my

1014
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 3: money basically, you know that that's when I was truly free.

1015
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 3: I felt like, yeah, there's nothing, nothing tying me down.

1016
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 3: So don't be afraid of that, of that moment. And

1017
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 3: and don't be afraid of you know that once you're

1018
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 3: in the game, it's actually you just go with the

1019
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 3: flow that that's that's all you can do. But the

1020
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 3: moment before you decide on doing it, before you make

1021
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 3: that down payment or before you quit your job, that's

1022
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 3: a tough one. And for for On, it took us

1023
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 3: almost a year to take the plunge, to jump off

1024
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 3: the ledge. And looking back at the Caspers, back then,

1025
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 3: I was a really really you know, I was chicken

1026
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 3: uh and and laugh at that, and I laugh at

1027
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 3: people now that that that that behave that way, But

1028
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 3: you know I was like that jump and and and

1029
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 3: and start and start what your dream is and and

1030
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 3: you'll find out what it works on if you don't jump,

1031
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 3: You'll never.

1032
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: Know Casper's thanks so much for sitting down with me.

1033
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: Let's go a hand for him. He's so awesome. Thanks

1034
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: so much to pare it On and for on Running

1035
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: for doing this with us tonight. If you have a second,

1036
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 1: I'd love for you to open your podcasts up and

1037
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: subscribe to Hurdle. Also follow Hurdle podcasts on Instagram and Twitter.

1038
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: If you need anything, you can always read me Emily

1039
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: at hurdle dot us. We all face multiple hurdles in life.

1040
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: I want to hear about yours. Tell me where do

1041
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: they find you? Where do they find on?

1042
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 2: On Instagram, on social, on the web. Give me all

1043
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 2: the deats.

1044
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 3: Okay, so it's on running dot com or on running

1045
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,760
Speaker 3: on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook? What have you?

1046
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: You're not an active social media I dropped out fall

1047
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 1: back you. Uh, It's it's cool. Everyone knows their thing.

1048
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: Social media is just not yours.

1049
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 3: I have more time to work out.

1050
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 1: I am at Emily Abody, another hurdle conquered.

1051
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time.