1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: today's best minds. We're on vacation, but we still have 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: an amazing show for you Today. Author Justin Ellis stops 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: by to talk about his new book, The Cruelty of 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: Nice Folk Why Minneapolis is the Story of America. But 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: first we'll talk to Inside Elections the own Jacob Rubashkin 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: about the dem chances of taking back the House and 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: the Senate. Welcome. 10 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 2: Welcome, Jacob, it is amazing to be here. 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: As always, well, it's awesome to have you. So we 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: have the shape of what the Democratic army looks like 13 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: going into the case for flipping the House right going 14 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: into the twenty twenty six midterm elections. 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we're a little more than halfway through 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: primary season, which sounds crazy because it feels like it's 17 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: been about a decade since we started these races back 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 2: in Texas all the way in March. It has been 19 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 2: over three months since the primary is kicked off. And 20 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: when we look at the battle failed for the House map, 21 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 2: we've got nominees in probably about half or a little 22 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: bit more of the most competitive district. So the Democratic 23 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: slate is certainly starting to take shape in the center 24 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: of the battleground. And of course we've also got results 25 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: in safer seats, but new members that are going to 26 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: play a big role in what a Democratic majority might 27 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: look like next year. 28 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: First, can we do a minute on the New York primaries, 29 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: because the road to the House runs through New York 30 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: and we saw a surprising move. So can you talk 31 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: us through what happened in New York? 32 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I think this is a really great kind 33 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: of microcosm of a larger tension that we're seeing within 34 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: the Democratic Party right now when it comes to these 35 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: House races. Because you've got two different universes. You've got 36 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: the universe of safe seats where we saw the DSA 37 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 2: Democratic Socials of America, the Mamdanni backed candidates really show out. 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: Last night, you saw two incumbents go down to DSA 39 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: back challengers, Dan Goldman and Adriano Espayat both lost to 40 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 2: Mam Donnie endorsed candidates. Claire Valdez also won in the 41 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: open seventh district. 42 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: Clara Valdez is that is this seat that was occupied 43 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: by Nina of Alaskas. 44 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, so Nidia of Alaskaz was alas the longtime member. 45 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: They're a trailblazer. This is one of the most democratic 46 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: seats in the country. It's what people people call the 47 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: Commi corridor, this area where Mam Donnie has been so successful. 48 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 2: And so on the one hand, you've got Democrats in 49 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 2: New York in these safe blue seats nominating the more 50 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: progressive candidates. But if you look at the competitive general 51 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: election race, it's a pretty different story. So if you 52 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 2: go up just a little bit north to the Hudson Valley, 53 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: New York seventeen, Kate Conley, who's a Special Forces veteran, 54 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 2: former Biden administration official, very kind of no nonsense. 55 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: And that's the seat that's occupied by Mike Lawler. 56 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 2: Mike Lawler, yes, and he is one of the most 57 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: vulnerable Republicans right now. And there was a progressive candidate 58 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: in that race, Fi Phillips Staley, who was backed by 59 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: Jamal Bowman some other progressive organizations there. She came in third. 60 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:34,679 Speaker 2: So in that district, the Democrats nominated somebody who came 61 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: from a more moderate, less ideological, military focused background. 62 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: So swing district you have a centrist, a sort of 63 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: mini Mikey Cheryl. 64 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: Yes, similar vein to Mikey Cheryl, And in fact, there's 65 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: a whole group of women running in highly competitive House 66 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: districts who have military backgrounds that are explicitly channeling the 67 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: energy Mikey Cheryl and Abigail Spanberger and Alissa Slotkin and 68 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: some others brought to their races back in twenty eighteen. 69 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: In a dark blue district, you have candidates who are 70 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: the more lefty part of the spectrum, but in a 71 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: swingy district you have a more of asendrus. 72 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that is currently fair to say we 73 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,799 Speaker 2: aren't seeing Democrats in these toss up highly competitive districts 74 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 2: nominate DSA members nominate kind of the most progressive options 75 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 2: there yet so far. Again, we still have primaries to go, 76 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,119 Speaker 2: but by and large in the majority makers, we're seeing 77 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: a far more conventional playbook in terms of who is 78 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 2: winning these primaries. 79 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: And so we will go from two DSA members in 80 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: the House to four, which is double but still not 81 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: quite a caucus. Yeah. 82 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 2: I mean, look, I think that it's undeniable that over 83 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 2: the past decade the left wing of the Democratic Party 84 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 2: is on the ascendancy within the caucus. And if Democrats 85 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 2: take back the majority, unless they do it by kind 86 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 2: of a smashing margin, it's very possible that the Squad 87 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 2: or whatever kind of successor to the Squad that we're 88 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 2: going to see come twenty twenty seven, will play a 89 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: very important role in the coalition management that Hakeem Jeffries 90 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 2: is going to have to do as a potential speaker. 91 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I think is important 92 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: about this about New York the New York primaries is 93 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: that both the person who wants to be Leader of 94 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: the Senate and the person who wants to be the 95 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: Speaker of the House are both from New York and 96 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: they both endorsed candidates who lost. 97 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure if Schumer waded in 98 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,239 Speaker 2: to any of these House primaries, but Hakeem Jeffries backed 99 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: his incumbents, and I think that that is something that 100 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: he's always going to do, and this is a burgeoning 101 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 2: headache for him. It remains to be seeing how he 102 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: manages this wing of his conference. I think Nancy Pelosi 103 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:12,799 Speaker 2: was very skilled at bringing aoc and ilhan Omar and 104 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: Aana Presley and rasheated to Leib into the fold as 105 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 2: much as she could when those four came into Congress 106 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen during that Democratic majority. This is going 107 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: to be a test for Jeffries. Can he similarly manage 108 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: that internal caucus differences if he gets to be Speaker. 109 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: And AOC has also. I think she and certainly Ariana 110 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: Presley are very much have very much sort of pivoted 111 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: to be just sort of good members of the House 112 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: who have not I mean, they very much work within 113 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: the system and not outside of it. 114 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that AOC both and I think it's 115 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: it's telling that both of them have the clearest higher ambitions. 116 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: Both of them are potential Senate candidates. Both of them, 117 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: you know, are are not going to be House members 118 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: forever in a way that you know, Ihan Omar and 119 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 2: Rashida Talib have not expressed nearly as much kind of 120 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: interest about running for statewide. I don't have the office, 121 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 2: you know. I think that AOC is an incredibly savvy politician. 122 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: I think that she has been open about how you know, 123 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 2: she's not going to be in the House forever. I 124 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: think that she is one of the few members who's 125 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: really good at leveraging her committee assignments to generate those 126 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: kind of viral moments that help her both fundraise and 127 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: raise her profile as a substantive legislator. I think she's 128 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: aware of her weaknesses as well as she is her strengths. 129 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 2: And whatever she decides to do in twenty twenty eight, 130 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 2: whether that's run for Senate or run for president, I 131 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: think she is going to be a threat to win 132 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: the nomination and a threat to win overall. People underestimator 133 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: at their own risk. 134 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: So let's go through this primary calendar here for a minute. 135 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: And I do think just one last thing on this. 136 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: It does seem like the mayor. This was a good 137 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: night for the mayor. 138 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I mean this was certainly the best night 139 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: for him politically since he won election over Andrew Cuomo. 140 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: Maybe not the best night for him this month though, 141 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: given the Knicks championship win, But restricting us to politics, yeah, 142 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 2: I mean this was to call it a shot across 143 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: the bow is under selling it. I mean he toppled 144 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 2: two income numbers of Congress. This was a big deal 145 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: for him. 146 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: Okay, great, let's talk about the House for where we 147 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: are now. Talk me through sort of the House members 148 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: who lost their seats or where they affect what it 149 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: looks like for winning the House. You know, when we 150 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 1: look at the March, May and June primary so far. 151 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we've seen a couple of members lose 152 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 2: their seats in primaries so far. Largely redistricting is the 153 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 2: driving factor there. You know, when you look at some 154 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: of the members who lost in Texas, like Al Green 155 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 2: or Dan Crenshaw, those are redistricting considerations. 156 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: And Green was very old and he's been replaced by 157 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: someone who was in his thirties. 158 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so there was a real generational contrast there. 159 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: I think that as we are looking forward to the 160 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: upcoming primaries, that's one axis that I think is a 161 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 2: potential to see some more losses. You know, thinking about 162 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 2: a guy like John Larson in Connecticut, who is just 163 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 2: kind of a rank and file Democrat, good on social Security, 164 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 2: isn't controversial, but he's got a challenger who's running on 165 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 2: a generational platform, Luke Brown and the former mayor of Hartford. 166 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 2: You've got next week, probably the biggest primary next week 167 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: in Colorado's first district, which is Denver. Diana de Gett, 168 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 2: who's quietly been one of the longest serving members of 169 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: the Democratic Caucus at this point, been in Congress since 170 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 2: the nineties. She got elected young, so she's not, you know, 171 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 2: kind of aging out in her seventies or eighties. But 172 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: she's got a challenge from a progressive candidate who is 173 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: significantly younger than she is, making both an ideological and 174 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 2: a generational contrast. And so you know, you've got a 175 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: number of these races, and in Florida, we're going to 176 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: see some generational fights. Can Debbie Wasserman Schultz hold on 177 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 2: to her spot in Congress for you. 178 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: To talk about Debbie Wasserman Schultz because this is an 179 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: insane primary, Yeah, and explain what's going on here, because 180 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: this is I let you explain this because it's so bad. 181 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 182 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 4: OK. 183 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 2: So, essentially what happened is that you Florida Republicans a 184 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago read drew their congressional map and. 185 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: After the Supreme Court basically killed the Voting Rights Act. 186 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: Well they actually did it before kind of in anticipation, 187 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 2: right this happening. And what they did in South Florida 188 00:10:55,200 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 2: was they took what was for solid Democrats seats and 189 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 2: reshaped them to be two solid Democratic seats and two 190 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 2: highly competitive districts, and one of those seats was w 191 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 2: westerm And Schultz's district that used to be solidly Democratic 192 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: and it got kind. 193 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: Of a majority minority seat. 194 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 2: Well, not not her current district, right, but on what 195 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 2: they did to her district, essentially, she had no They 196 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 2: dispersed her constituents to a bunch of different places, and 197 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: she had a couple of options. Her two big options 198 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 2: where she could run in this new kind of coastal 199 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 2: district that is going to be highly competitive that Jared 200 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 2: Moskowitz is going to run in, or she could jump 201 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: to try and run in the vacant seat that was 202 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: held by Silashervost McCormick before she resigned under the ethics investigation. 203 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 2: And that district is historically a majority Aready Black seat 204 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 2: West Palm Beach, Broward County and has been held by 205 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 2: a black Democrat for a very long time. Alsie Hastings 206 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 2: was there for a long time before sheriffst McCormick. And 207 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 2: that's caused a lot of consternation because Wasserman Schultz represents 208 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: you know, the overlap is fairly tiny. She is, of 209 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 2: course a white woman. She's represented a different part of 210 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: the state she's never really represented this area, and she's 211 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 2: now coming in to run in this safe seat as 212 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: opposed to running in one of the more competitive districts 213 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 2: that that she also had the option to. But there 214 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: nobody can decide who to consolidate behind in terms of 215 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 2: the other candidates. So there's a lot of frustration among 216 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 2: black Democratic leaders down in South Florida that she's doing this. 217 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: And she schrefless McCormick is actually going to run to 218 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 1: she she. 219 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 2: Is running again alleged, I mean in name, you know, 220 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 2: I don't know kind of. She's under federal indictment, right 221 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: she's she's I'm not sure that she's got the resources 222 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 2: to run, but she's in the race. Elijah Manley is 223 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 2: in the race. He's a young guy who was running 224 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 2: against Sheriff Host McCormick before she dropped out or before 225 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: she resigned. You've got Dale Holness, who's a former Broward 226 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 2: County commissioner who lost to Sherifast McCormick back in twenty twenty. 227 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 2: You've got Uncle Luke from Two Live Crew, the Rapper, 228 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 2: who he's also running there. He ran for mayor a 229 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: couple of years ago, so he's been involved in local politics. 230 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: It's a real mess. I think right now, Wasserman Schultz 231 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 2: is probably the favorite because she only needs to win 232 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 2: more than anybody else. She doesn't need to win a majority. 233 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 2: It's a plurality state. But it's really uncomfortable, and Jeffries 234 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 2: notably has not endorsed her. He's held off on that, 235 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: and he always endorses his incumbents. So that is a 236 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: real sign of kind of the internal frustrations even within 237 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 2: the Democratic Party up on Capitol Hill about what Wasserman 238 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: Schultz is doing. 239 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: Do you think it's weird that Jefferies hasn't gotten involved. 240 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think that it's I think that 241 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: it indicates that there are very deep divisions within the 242 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: Democratic Caucus, and I'm sure public and not so public 243 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 2: concerns coming from the Congressional Black Caucus, of which Jeffreys 244 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: is a member, about what Wasserman Schultz is doing. It's 245 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: uncomfortable for everyone. Florida Democrats are in a real bind here, 246 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 2: and they're no easy answers for the party and this 247 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 2: is just like, you know, it's a challenge that they're 248 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: going to have to work through. 249 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: Florida strikes me as being in a pretty good spot 250 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: for Democrats as much as it has been in the 251 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: last couple of years. 252 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 2: I mean, the bar is like but talking in South 253 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 2: America here, Yeah. 254 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: But tugs with the governor. I mean the David Jolly 255 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: looks like he. I mean, he certainly has closed her 256 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: to a shot than any Democrat has had statewide in 257 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: Florida since Nikki. Yeah. 258 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 2: I mean, And that's the thing, right, is that since 259 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, Florida Democrats have absolutely gotten their butts handed 260 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 2: to them up and down the ballot every single race, 261 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 2: you know, in a major statewide election. And so, yeah, 262 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 2: I think that two things can be true, David Jolly 263 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: and potentially Alex Vinman on the Senate side. 264 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: I think Vinman has less of a shot. 265 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: Than Jalla could be. I think that they're going to 266 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 2: be the most competitive Democrats since twenty eighteen. I'm not 267 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 2: sure if that gets them in the vicinity of a victory. 268 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 2: I think the state has just changed so much in 269 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 2: terms of the population who's moved in since DeSantis became governor, 270 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: since the COVID pandemic, you know, pushed people out of 271 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 2: their home states into Florida. I think that even if 272 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: we see kind of a reversion among Hispanic voters in 273 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: South Florida to more of a twenty twenty twenty eighteen 274 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 2: kind of voting pattern. There are just fewer Democrats there 275 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 2: and more Republicans there than there ever were before. And 276 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: that's even before you kind of start to factor in 277 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: Byron Donald's having one hundred to one cash on hand 278 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: advantage over David Jolly. 279 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 3: Right now, so talk. 280 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: Us through sort of where you think there are opportunities 281 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: in the Senate, in the House from what's happened with 282 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: these primaries for Democrats. 283 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I think the Senate map is pretty clear. 284 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: For Democrats to win back the majority, they have to 285 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 2: win North Carolina, they have to hold both of their 286 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: competitive holds. So Michigan, in Georgia, Michigan primaries still up 287 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: in the air, not for another month and a half. 288 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: Who is the best shot to hold Michigan. 289 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: You know, if you go by the current polling, it 290 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 2: would tell you that Hailey Stevens polls better against Mike 291 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: Roger than either of her opponents. But we're talking about 292 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: gradations of a couple of points. 293 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: Here, doesn't so you don't think there's a clear. 294 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 2: I am less convinced that there's a clear best general 295 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 2: election candidate for Michigan. I know that there are other 296 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: opinions here in DC. There are Democrats who are still 297 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: concerned that Abdul said it is a weaker general election candidate. 298 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 2: I'm not so sure that's the case, to be honest, 299 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 2: I think that whoever is the Democrat is going to 300 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 2: have a very narrow band of performance there. 301 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: So North Carolina, Michigan, Georgia. 302 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: And then you know you've got to contend with Maine. 303 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 2: Maine should be the best pick up opportunity. It's not, though, 304 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 2: I think the platin factor of it all makes it 305 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: just a little bit more complicated. Like, yeah, I think 306 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 2: people who think that he's a shoe in are wrong. 307 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 2: People who think that he's a dead letter are wrong. 308 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: I think that's a highly competitive race. Susan Collins could win, 309 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: right Like, there's no there's no question that she Ohio 310 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 2: could win. Kio and Alaska, I think, are the two 311 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 2: kind of most critical states in this picture. Right now, 312 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 2: You've got Shared Brown, You've got Mary Peltola. Both of 313 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 2: them are running really strong campaigns, well funded. 314 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: I also think do not discount the vivake of it all. 315 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's struggling in the governor's race a 316 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: little bit. I think he's got his own sort of 317 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 2: unique challenges. He's got unlimited money that he can throw 318 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: at those challenges. What we're going to see over the 319 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 2: next couple of weeks is really interesting to me because 320 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 2: the VAC super pac has gone up on TV with 321 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 2: attack ads against Amy Actin, the Democrat in that gubernatorial race, 322 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 2: hitting her over her time as the state health director 323 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 2: during COVID. And this has been what we've been hearing 324 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: from Republicans for months about Amy Actin is once we 325 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 2: start hitting her on COVID, her numbers are going to tank. 326 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 2: This race is going to be over. So I'm watching 327 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 2: very closely to see if that happens, because Vivek has 328 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 2: spent fourteen million dollars of his own money already on 329 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: positive advertising and it hasn't moved him at all. So 330 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: now we have to see does the negative move act In. 331 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 2: And if the negative doesn't move act In, that race 332 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 2: only gets more and more competitive as we get closer 333 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 2: to election day and the Republicans are running out of tools. Yeah, yeah, obviously, Yeah, 334 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 2: I mean, if there's a rising tide lifts all boats here, 335 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 2: and if Acton is performing well, I think it's reasonable 336 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: to believe that share it is performing well. I think 337 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 2: both of them help each other out in that race. 338 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 2: Texas Iowa, Yeah, I'm a believer in Iowa above Texas 339 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 2: right now. I think Texas I remain a skeptic. It 340 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: is a really big state. You just have to win 341 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: over a lot of voters who have not cast ballots 342 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 2: for Democrats in years past. And what we're starting to 343 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 2: see in polling now is a bit of consolidation among 344 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: Republicans for Ken Paxton. 345 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 3: There was a lot of. 346 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 2: Polling that came out post primary during the Republican runoff 347 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 2: that had Tallarico ahead, and the reason was not because 348 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 2: he was getting fifty percent, but it was because Paxton 349 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 2: was not winning over a certain subset of John Cornyn 350 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 2: voters who were salty about how things were going in 351 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 2: that primary. Now we're starting to see him claw back 352 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: some of those voters. The question is can he get 353 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 2: all of them or do some of them continue to 354 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 2: hold out and move over to Tallerico. I think we're 355 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 2: going to be or stay home exactly. I think this 356 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 2: is going to be close race. Don't get me wrong, 357 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: but I think that the challenges for tall Rico are 358 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 2: more difficult than what Josh Turik faces in Iowa when 359 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 2: it comes to Ashley Hinson. I think there's something in 360 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: the water in Iowa. That state is looking so competitive, 361 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 2: at least as competitive as twenty eighteen. You've got a 362 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 2: Democrat who's leading the governor's race right now in Rob 363 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 2: sand and Turik. He just has to win over fewer 364 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 2: voters to get to a majority than James Tallerico does 365 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: by a factor of ten. I mean, Iowa is a 366 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 2: small state. Texas is a massive state, and that makes 367 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 2: a big difference. 368 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: Tell me, is there anything we're sleeping on that we 369 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: should be focused on? 370 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 2: You're sleeping on the new Inside Elections website, which is 371 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 2: launching hod Yes by the time that this podcast comes out. 372 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 2: We've spent the last year working on this. It is great. 373 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: It's going to be the one stop shop for anyone 374 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 2: interested in house races, Senate races. All of our ratings, 375 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: all the candidate finance information, biography, full picture of the map, 376 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 2: deep dives on races, it's all going to be there. 377 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 2: I'm so excited about it, and that's that's what everyone's 378 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 2: sleeping on these days. 379 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: Well done, Jacob, thank you, thank you for coming on. 380 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 2: Thank you. As always. 381 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: Justin Ellis is the author of The Cruelty of Nice Folks. 382 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: Why Minneapolis Is the Story of America. 383 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 3: Welcome, Welcome, Justin, Thank you for having me. 384 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: So the Cruelty of Nice Folks. Why Minneapolis is the 385 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: Story of America? So I'm going to obviously ask you why. 386 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 5: Well, for me, I think it's the broken compact that 387 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 5: with what you promise people who come from away, people 388 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 5: who are looking for opportunity, and the reality of what 389 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 5: happens when there's entrenched power structures, and basically an unwillingness 390 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 5: to grapple with Floyd's in pregnancy. And in the case 391 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 5: of Minneapolis in particular, what the city ran up against 392 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 5: in the death of George Floyd was not just this 393 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 5: brutal murder, another murder by police, something that's been systemic, 394 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 5: it was seen in America for such a long time, 395 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 5: but running up against this sort of myth making of 396 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 5: Minneapolis and Minnesota as this sort of progressive, welcoming place 397 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,239 Speaker 5: where something like this couldn't happen. And so for me, 398 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 5: that was the real reason I wanted to jump at 399 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 5: the opportunity through this book is the fact that I 400 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 5: thought we need to pull that apart of it. 401 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because it's like lately Minneapolis and Minnesota 402 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: more generally has been held up as a place that 403 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: was very united against ice. Do you think that you 404 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: get there through what happened with George Floyd and can 405 00:22:59,320 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: you talk to us? 406 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, I think that's absolutely right. 407 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 5: One of the weird bit of timing with this book 408 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,479 Speaker 5: is that we had finished up. I'd wrapped it up, 409 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 5: you know, gone through all the editing and stages and 410 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 5: everything was done by January of this year, which is 411 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 5: right around the time when Operation Metro Surge as they 412 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 5: were calling it, started, and my editor came to me 413 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 5: it was like, look, we have to write something about this, 414 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 5: and so I was able to work on an epilogue. 415 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 5: And to me, you don't get to a place where 416 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 5: people are so quickly jumping into signal networks, you know, 417 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 5: neighborhood chat groups, where they are jumping into usual aid 418 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 5: that in some ways is just sort of like a 419 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 5: secondhand skill. I think that was developed first in the 420 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 5: pandemic and then took root more during Floyd during sort 421 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 5: of the rebellion those early weeks and months after Floyd 422 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 5: was murdered. You definitely don't get to the place where 423 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 5: people are more willing to go out into the streets 424 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 5: put their bodies on the line. As we say, obviously 425 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 5: with Renee good Now it's ready. You don't get that 426 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 5: without people saying Minneapolis had this horrible thing happened. You know, 427 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 5: the justice system did what it did with Derek Chaulvin, 428 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 5: but the city never really reconciled sort of its own 429 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 5: role and a lot of the history that led to 430 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 5: Floyd's death. And so to me, it was fascinating that 431 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 5: you saw not just people coming together in these networks 432 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 5: to reach out to migrant families immigrant families, but to 433 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 5: support the businesses that were in danger, and also to 434 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 5: just support the children who were being you know, basically 435 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 5: hounded on their way to school and in some cases 436 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 5: children actually being abducted obviously coming home from school. And 437 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 5: so you absolutely don't think get to that place where 438 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 5: people are confronting that. And to me specifically, I think 439 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 5: there's the one part of it which is also just Minneapolis. 440 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 5: The mist obviously is still majority white, and to me, 441 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 5: this felt like a actual recognition of the power that 442 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 5: comes with that and the protections that can come with that. 443 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 5: And so the fact that you see people basically confronting ice, 444 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 5: people actually driving around for showing people basically being threatened 445 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 5: not just with death, but they were basically locking people 446 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 5: up in this ice facility that was near Port Snelling, 447 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 5: which is basically a place where Minneapolis and Minnesota was born, 448 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 5: and it's a place that's got a horrible history as 449 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 5: basically in a tournament camp for the Native populations that 450 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 5: were rounded up and died in horrible conditions there, and 451 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 5: so the echoes of history are all there too. So 452 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 5: I think people had to confront what practical skills they 453 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 5: developed during the pandemic and during the time after Floyd, 454 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 5: but then also with the lessons of what Minneapolis actually 455 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 5: did deal with and what Minneapolis let go after Floyd's 456 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 5: death and after the city basically failed it find any 457 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 5: way to transform its policing or kind of reconcile the 458 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 5: history of inequality. 459 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: Can you talk for a minute about what Minneapolis and 460 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: Minnesota more generally sort of how it became this weird, white, 461 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: Nordic friendly strange. I mean, because it's not really like 462 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: any other state. I'd love you to sort of explain 463 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: how it got that way. 464 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a combination of reasons that Minneapolis sort of 465 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 5: has the place that does in the public imagination. Now 466 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 5: it's a place that repeatedly winds up on top ten 467 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 5: lists of best places to visit, plus places to live 468 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 5: to raise a family. It all comes down to this 469 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 5: notion of the quality of life there, right. You know, 470 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 5: if you're someone who enjoys the outdoors, it is minutes 471 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 5: to get to any beautiful leg where you can go voting, 472 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 5: go swimming, do whatever you want. There's any kind of 473 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 5: thing that you like. But the majority of that is 474 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 5: available to the largely white community that's been that way 475 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 5: since the state was found and since the state was 476 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 5: basically taken over from the indigenous tribes that had always 477 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 5: called it home. In doing the research for the book, 478 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 5: one of the things that was really fascinating, obviously the 479 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 5: story of Minnesota echoes the story of America and that 480 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 5: it is a country that was created by immigrants. But 481 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 5: Minnesota was different in that, like, there was a lot 482 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 5: more active what I would say is active recruiting, active advertising, 483 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 5: specifically to places on the East Coast. You know, they 484 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 5: were trying to pull people from New England to try 485 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 5: to make a a kind of like Boston Commons on. 486 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 3: The planes, but then also basically. 487 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 5: Working with people to bring Germans, to bring people from 488 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 5: you know, Scandinavia. Here there was an official like not 489 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 5: necessarily tourism board, but it's essentially like a state sort 490 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 5: of marketing group that had people to either welcome them 491 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 5: as they came through New York and say, hey considered Minnesota, 492 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 5: but also to place the newspaper ads basically work with people, 493 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 5: you know, to sort of say that this is a 494 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 5: place that is essentially like where you are coming from 495 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,479 Speaker 5: in Europe. You can find writing from letter writing and 496 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 5: other articles from people who who are writing to family 497 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 5: and friends and you know, whether it's Norway or Sweden 498 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 5: or Germany and saying this is essentially just like what 499 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 5: we have here, but the opportunity is greater because the 500 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 5: land is open and we are starting from scratch, and 501 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 5: so that that foundation was laid very early on post reconstruction. Basically, 502 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 5: what's happening is that after the Civil War, obviously as 503 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 5: black families leave the South in nass and they go 504 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 5: to places like. 505 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 3: Washington, d C. 506 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 5: They go to New York, they go to Chicago, they 507 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 5: go to Detroit. Those same pipelines exist, but they don't 508 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 5: go as far basically as Minneapolis. They know it go 509 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 5: as far as Minnesota because some of the opportunities there 510 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 5: that are in other places just don't exist. The industries 511 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 5: aren't as robust there. So you do have you do 512 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 5: have a number of black families that come there. My 513 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 5: great grandparents were among those that came. But it's ship 514 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 5: on the same numbers, and so that stuck over time, 515 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 5: and even as the state has has seen different groups 516 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 5: of people call at home, you know, whether it is 517 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 5: people coming from there's places in Africa, where there's people 518 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 5: coming from part of places in Asia, you know, migrants 519 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 5: of all kinds. 520 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 3: It's still a majority of white state. 521 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: Its whiteness is because it was far away post reconstruction 522 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: and it didn't have many industries. 523 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 5: Well, I mean the whiteness was just because a big 524 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 5: subdegree it was not as welcoming and the opportunity was 525 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 5: not as robust there. You could say, so if you 526 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 5: are a place that was you know, like Detroit for example, 527 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 5: Chicago for example, the industries that were offered there, there 528 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 5: were a lot more jobs, you know, Detroit obviously the 529 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 5: car industry, and Minneapolis and Minnesota just did not have 530 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,719 Speaker 5: that same appeal. It was smaller, but it was just 531 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 5: it was it was sort of a rounding area compared 532 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 5: to other places. And even even as the waves of 533 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 5: migration changed over time, you know, there was more black 534 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 5: families that arrived in the nineteen sixties and seventies, the 535 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 5: conditions were still the same. And I think by then 536 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 5: what you saw is that there are a number of 537 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 5: people that were saying that even though Minnesota looks great 538 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 5: on paper, there is an underlie racism here that transforms 539 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 5: what looks like it is equal opportunity. 540 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, because there's also like really good, 541 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: relatively speaking, social services in Minneapolis. In Minnesota, is that 542 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: because it's so small, is there racism there too? Like 543 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: sometimes you know, the schools and the black neighborhoods don't 544 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: have the same things that the schools in the way, 545 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: you know, just talk me through that. 546 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 5: Well, the history of social service programs there is one 547 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 5: that I think you could say comes from a place 548 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 5: of generosity, at least early on, and that generosity in 549 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 5: some ways those was also because of who the original 550 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 5: settlers were. 551 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: Right, which is this Scandinavians, right, which. 552 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 5: Is Scandinavians, which is Germans, which is a lot of 553 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 5: sort of Western Europeans. You know, you have these subtler 554 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 5: programs that were visited to welcome people to what we 555 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 5: would now say, you know, was operating like public assistance 556 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 5: or welfare, and over time that that grows into you know, 557 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 5: something that is supported by the city, that is supported 558 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 5: by the state, not just by by private charities. That's 559 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 5: been the case now for years. What has happened with 560 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 5: the focus on fraud to assistance programs in Minnesota. 561 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: Now I was about to ask you about that. 562 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, it has a lot of echoes to the past, 563 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 5: the nineties and the eighties. You know, when I was 564 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 5: growing even earlier on this notion that the public systems 565 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 5: programs are almost too generous. And it's true. It's true 566 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 5: that to a certain extent. Like if you were looking 567 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 5: at in the nineteen eighties, and I did this research 568 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 5: in the book, you know, the amount that a family 569 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 5: would get in Minneapolis, or in Minnesota, I should say 570 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 5: over overall, was much greater than you would get in 571 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 5: other states. And so the idea that people would just 572 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 5: come so they could get the welfare benefits is something 573 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 5: that's been around for a very long time. And people 574 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 5: wanting to sort of hunt down these people as basically 575 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 5: being not worthy of the benefits has been around as 576 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 5: long as. 577 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 3: That are even longer. 578 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 5: So the reality is that, yes, the benefits systems that 579 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 5: have been put in place are good for families. The 580 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 5: school systems, buy in law, arn't you know, historically have 581 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 5: been good. Minneapolis and Saint Paul have wavered over time, 582 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 5: and I think probably in the last few decades Minneapolis 583 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 5: has definitely seen some declines. 584 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 3: But at the same time, these. 585 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 5: Are school districts that have also suffered the same kind 586 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 5: of problems as a lot of cities in the US 587 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 5: in terms of racism, in terms of the segregation that happens. 588 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 5: You know, it's just that in Minneapolis and Saint Paul, 589 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 5: you know, you didn't have to have police escort kids 590 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 5: coming to school and you didn't have things like that. 591 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,719 Speaker 1: Can you talk about bringing over Somali immigrants? Did that 592 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: have something to do with the religions in Minnesota? Some 593 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: of the churches in Minnesota. 594 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 5: So relationship between sort of the Simbali diaspora and Minnesota 595 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 5: is sort of complex in some ways, and that one 596 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 5: just like any other sales of migration, it was about 597 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 5: what was available. It was about like what opportunities existed, 598 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 5: and so when that starts, when when that migration starts happening. 599 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 5: In the nineties, people were finding their way after they 600 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 5: landed in the US to Minnesota because there were programs 601 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 5: that were put together through different church groups as well 602 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 5: as migrant programs developed by the state, and so you know, 603 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 5: that kind of created a foothold in some ways for 604 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 5: families to be able to start over, to basically build community, 605 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 5: to sort of have some sort of safety and stability 606 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 5: for their families. It's been like a godsend in some 607 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 5: ways because what you've seen, especially in Minneapolis, is that 608 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 5: the families that are coming from other places, you know, 609 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 5: the Smalling families, student these families and other families are 610 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 5: coming into areas that had otherwise been sort of left 611 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 5: behind and trying to revitalize them. The Carramel Wall, there's 612 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 5: this place on Lake Street and Minneapolis that has been 613 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 5: just totally revitalized over over the decades because of the 614 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 5: book that's been put into that. So the ties that 615 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 5: were there are are sort of very similar to the 616 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 5: historic ones in terms of people saying, hey, come to 617 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 5: the north, we have some opportunities, we have places to 618 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 5: put you on better footage. 619 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: It's interesting because it's like we're on the precipice of 620 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: a population demise, right, and you see it. You see 621 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: the writing on the wall, right, like with the immigration 622 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: numbers and now the birth rate numbers. We're about to 623 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: go from a country where we had these. I mean, 624 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: we'll always probably have these trumpy people saying, you know whatever, 625 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: it's too many people. But it's very clearly not too many. 626 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 1: If anything, we're about to hit a cliff where it's 627 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: not nearly enough people. I mean, obviously I'm always like 628 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: too optimistic, so I'm always like, well, they're going to 629 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: be like, oh shit, we need people, and I'm sure 630 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: they're not. But certainly I think there was a feeling 631 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: that they had sort of better intentions than a lot 632 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: of the other states, you know, better services. You know, 633 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: if you look at the governor like they're trying to 634 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: be better. Now, clearly that has not necessarily worked the 635 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: way it should have. So curious where you think gets failed. 636 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 5: Sure, again, this is why we say that the book 637 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 5: is about the story of America. It's about best intentions 638 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 5: in the ways that those are basically undercut by realities 639 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 5: that people aren't willing to face. Minnesota, in particular, if 640 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 5: you go back, you know the idea of Hubert Humphrey. 641 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 5: He started out as the mayor of Minneapolis for acoming 642 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 5: senator and eventually becoming vice president. He's sort of known 643 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 5: as this sort of liberal lion. He is a very 644 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 5: big figure, and very early on he kind of has 645 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 5: this notion that you can put together class and race 646 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 5: and that everyone will be able to all boats will float. 647 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 5: Basically you raise all boats. And I think that notion 648 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 5: is stuck around for so long, and the fact is 649 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 5: that that doesn't address the structural inequality that is created 650 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 5: specifically because of racism, that is specifically because of white supremacy. 651 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 5: It doesn't do anything to address the fact that in 652 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 5: Minneapolis certain areas, the housing has always been neglected, that 653 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 5: has been basically abandoned or turned into sort of public 654 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 5: works projects or sort of co ops with developers that 655 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 5: don't really need that don't really meet the needs of 656 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 5: the community. You see that Minisotota wants to invest in 657 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 5: you know, under Tim Walls, they created a program to 658 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 5: basically provide school meals to any child that wants them, 659 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 5: sort of leading the nation in that way, which is 660 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 5: a very beautiful thing, but at the same time, it 661 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 5: doesn't address why families are in poverty. It doesn't address 662 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 5: why there is this gap basically between white families and 663 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 5: anybody else, whether it is black families, indigenous families, you know, 664 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 5: migrant families of all stripes, and so to me, the 665 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 5: failure to address underlying segregation and racism is the reason 666 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 5: that these things keep happening in Miniat was in Minnesota, 667 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 5: and that whatever kind of public program you try to 668 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 5: create to address, whether it is inequality and education, inequality 669 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 5: in housing, anything to do with employment, it's the fact 670 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 5: that it ignores the realities that black and brown people 671 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 5: face when whether it is where they live, how they 672 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 5: can get a job in any of those opportunities. And 673 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 5: so that sounds I think, probably very simplistic, but the 674 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 5: fact is, like it's it's something that is baked into 675 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 5: the state's history. It's baked into you know, the neighborhoods 676 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 5: where people lived. These are programs and things that have 677 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 5: been around for generations and you see that neglect is 678 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 5: very real. 679 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about your Atlantic essay. So it was 680 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: sort of the structural not focusing on the structural issues, 681 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: the ways in which the schools weren't as good, or 682 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: the banks were giving the loans, or the you know, 683 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 1: the opportunities weren't there, and because there was a certain 684 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: feeling that they were kind of too sort of evolved 685 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: for that that a lot of racism continued on and 686 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: George Floyd was sort of an explosion of that. 687 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 5: Yeah, when George Floyd was killed again, a black man 688 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 5: being murdered by police obviously is something that is very 689 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 5: common in America, but in Minneapolis when that happened, you know, 690 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 5: he was a tent person believe that was killed over 691 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 5: a decade by police, and it goes back even than that. 692 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 5: So it's the idea that somehow this place is different 693 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 5: because it exists in the public imagination in a different way, right, right. 694 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 5: But I think people were surprised by not just the 695 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 5: violence that happened, but the anger that was below the 696 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 5: surface after Floud was killed, because it was about the 697 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 5: brutality that they saw, you know, all of us while 698 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 5: we're watching the video of US man being pinned down 699 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 5: and choked to death on their police officers need for 700 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 5: almost ten minutes, and that obviously has a lot to 701 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 5: do with the rage that people felt. But it's the 702 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 5: fact that the living conditions have remained the same for generations, 703 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 5: and the fact that black children and envisioned children basically 704 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 5: do not have the same access to education that you see. 705 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 5: It's the fact that the police brutality has been something 706 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 5: that has been going on for as long as that 707 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 5: been alive, and you get these same cycles of you know, violence. 708 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 3: And how are we going to rectify it. 709 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 5: We need to put sort of grammars on policing and 710 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 5: all the other kind of controls, And it all comes 711 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:02,879 Speaker 5: back to the same place. 712 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 3: It's the feeling that being in something. 713 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 5: That is sort of close to like a liberal fantasy 714 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 5: is actually just more of this kind of like stuck 715 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 5: stuck place where it's a nightmare. And so, yeah, I 716 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 5: think it was the fact that people were fed up 717 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 5: with being fed byes. 718 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 4: No, I agree, it's a really interesting, important notion that 719 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 4: there's still almost more work to be done in places 720 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 4: where it feels like there's less. 721 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you. 722 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:31,759 Speaker 3: Justin thank you. 723 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 724 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best 725 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 726 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 727 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.