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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, before we get started, you're very happy to

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Speaker 1: announce that Josh and I are on Jeopardy tonight. That's right,

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Speaker 1: we get our very own category Stuff you Should Know.

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Speaker 1: We had a hand in shaping the clues, which are

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Speaker 1: all from Stuff you Should Know episodes, and that was

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Speaker 1: super fun to work with them. They were awesome, by

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Speaker 1: the way, and then we got to present. They brought

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Speaker 1: a video crew to Atlanta and jumped in the podcast

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Speaker 1: studio and we, uh, we're on camera presenting our very

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Speaker 1: own clues in our very own category. This is definitely

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Speaker 1: a bucket list thing for both of us, and we're

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Speaker 1: super super excited. So it airs tonight. If you are

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Speaker 1: listening to this live on Tuesday, February eighth, it is

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Speaker 1: the prime time collegiate tournament. So check it out tonight

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Speaker 1: on ABC, our big, big debut on Jeopardy. Uh. Like

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Speaker 1: I said, it was super fun and we're so proud

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Speaker 1: of this. After all these years, we finally got the

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Speaker 1: call we've been waiting for. Check it out tonight, everyone,

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Speaker 1: All right, on with the show. Welcome to Stuff you

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Speaker 1: Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W.

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Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant and Jerry's here and this is uh stuff.

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Speaker 1: You should know. You know what I've been singing for

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Speaker 1: two days. Wheels on the bus, go rounding round. No,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty good, guests though done. No, No, chow Chilla.

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Speaker 1: I can't get it out of my head. That got

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Speaker 1: Godzilla song. Now, all I'm saying over and over is

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Speaker 1: chow Chilla. That's a great song. Do you remember who

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Speaker 1: played it? Was that? Like at Your Winner or Johnny Winter?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's one of the winners. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's my guess. Okay the long Winters. Definitely not the

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Speaker 1: Long Winters. Okay. Um So, Chuck, we're talking about a

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Speaker 1: piece of Americana true crime history that I had no

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Speaker 1: idea about actually, and um I noted though, because of

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Speaker 1: the timing and because of the location. I hit up

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Speaker 1: my beloved, uh former hippie aunt who lived in San

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Speaker 1: Francisco at the time I was raising kids and said,

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Speaker 1: do you remember this? She said, oh, yes, I remember

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Speaker 1: this big time. She had kids that were about to

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Speaker 1: be bus riding agents. She was not very u comfortable

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Speaker 1: with this, this whole jam. Yeah, provided discomfort. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: one way to put it. So did you even say

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Speaker 1: with the name of it was? No? Um, it's the

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Speaker 1: chow Chilli school bus kidnapping is what people usually refer

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Speaker 1: to it as, right, And I think this was a

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Speaker 1: listener who sent this in. And I apologize because I'd

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Speaker 1: usually make note of that so I can shout them out,

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Speaker 1: but I did not do so in this case, so

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Speaker 1: I missed. I know, boot this, but yeah, this was

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six and uh still stands according to

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Speaker 1: the sources, I saw as the largest domestic kidnapping in

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Speaker 1: US history. So my aunt says, oh yeah, she She

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Speaker 1: also said she was not very into it. I was

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Speaker 1: not very comfortable by that. It's very disappointing. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: the largest mass kidnapping, four ransom. I'm not sure why

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Speaker 1: that's a qualifier, but I don't know, but um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw the same thing too that it still stands. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it was like the idea that the most of

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Speaker 1: anything happened to this little town of chow Chilla in

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Speaker 1: the San Joaquin Valley, about a hundred and fifty miles

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Speaker 1: southeast of San Francisco. Um in and of itself is significant.

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Speaker 1: But it was a really terrible like most of event

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Speaker 1: that happened to this poor little town, as we'll see.

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Speaker 1: All right, So should we just start on July seventy six, Yes,

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Speaker 1: all right, we'll paint a picture for you. You already

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Speaker 1: mentioned where. It was between Fresno and San Francisco, out

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Speaker 1: in a part of California that had some very very

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Speaker 1: small towns at the time. It's hard to imagine anywhere

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Speaker 1: in California having forred people living there, but that was

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Speaker 1: the case in the mid seventies in Chowchilla. And it

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Speaker 1: was the next to the last day of summer school

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Speaker 1: and a bus was being driven after a because it

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Speaker 1: was summer school, a little fun day trip to a

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Speaker 1: swimming pool, driven by fifty five year old Ed Ray. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a farmer there in chow Chill himself. Apparently

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Speaker 1: he bailed hey like nobody's business. He was married to

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Speaker 1: a woman named Odessa who was a bank teller at

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Speaker 1: the Bank of America, and he was apparently quite happy

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Speaker 1: being a farmer and then driving kids around on the

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Speaker 1: school bus, because even after this he continued on for

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Speaker 1: another dozen years as the school bus driver. That's right. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he had only dropped off a few kids at this point,

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Speaker 1: and the were nineteen girls and seven boys on board

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Speaker 1: from five to fourteen, and notably, um the fourteen year

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Speaker 1: old because he will factor in pretty heavily here. His

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Speaker 1: name was Mike Marshall. He wasn't even supposed to be

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Speaker 1: on that bus. He usually got picked up by his mom,

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Speaker 1: but he got busted the night before it with some

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Speaker 1: beer and his mom said, to your punishment, you gotta

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Speaker 1: ride that school bus home tomorrow and after school or

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Speaker 1: after the trip. Apparently he was like, I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what bus to take because I don't do this,

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Speaker 1: but he knew who Ray was, and so he went

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Speaker 1: to ed Ray and said, hey, man, well you I

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Speaker 1: don't know if this is my bus or not, but

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Speaker 1: you take me home. And ed Ray is ed Ray.

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Speaker 1: So he went short shoreboard. So um, thank goodness, he

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Speaker 1: said that. Yeah. So after that that third stop, there

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Speaker 1: were twenty six kids and ed Ray on board, and

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Speaker 1: ed Ray was continuing along his route and he turned

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Speaker 1: on to a street called Avenue, and as he turned

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Speaker 1: onto Avenue one, Edray on that there was a white

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Speaker 1: van blocking the road, and apparently he started to go

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Speaker 1: around it and then I guess thought the better of it,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to stop and see if they needed

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Speaker 1: any help instead, And when he did, he realized very

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Speaker 1: quickly that he was actually being hijacked. Because when you

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Speaker 1: see a man with a long gun and panty hose

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Speaker 1: on his head, um, you're probably being hijacked, that's right.

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Speaker 1: The first thing he saw was this one guy who said,

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Speaker 1: opened the door, and then he realized there were a

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Speaker 1: couple of other guys, same m O. I think they

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Speaker 1: had shotguns with the panty hose, and they said get

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Speaker 1: in the back. We'll take over the driving from here.

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Speaker 1: If you watched the movie, did you see any of that? No? No,

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Speaker 1: I haven't yet. We'll get to it. Then there's a

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Speaker 1: there's a Lifetime movie that came out in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: I think looks like it was made in three somehow.

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Speaker 1: That is on YouTube, and I highly recommend scrubbing through it.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say watch the whole thing because I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you'll be able to. But Carl Malden, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: play that ed Ray and uh, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's true to the story, but he gave them a

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Speaker 1: lot of guff about getting out of that driver's seat

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Speaker 1: in the movie. Yeah, I don't. I'm not sure if

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Speaker 1: it happened in real life or not. It's a Malden

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Speaker 1: improv if I've ever heard one. Yes, And I'm not

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Speaker 1: getting out of my seat right my feet hurt. So

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Speaker 1: he eventually did though, and they drove Um. They drove

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Speaker 1: that bus followed by the van uh for a bit,

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Speaker 1: and then eventually transferred those kids to that van and

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Speaker 1: another identical van UM. And you know they I think

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Speaker 1: we should point out a few smart things these guys

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Speaker 1: did along the way, because they mainly did dumb things.

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Speaker 1: But the kidnappers did make them jump from the school

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Speaker 1: bus to the van so they wouldn't leave footprints. And

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Speaker 1: in these vans, they had all the kids and ed

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Speaker 1: Ray in the vans now two vans, UM, and they

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Speaker 1: had kind of like deck these vans out. Um. It

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Speaker 1: was kind of a shoddy manner of adding plywood partitions

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Speaker 1: to keep the kids from getting out from anybody being

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Speaker 1: able to see. And I think they painted over the windows.

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Speaker 1: And then they drove those kids around for eleven hours

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Speaker 1: in the backs of those vans with no potty breaks,

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Speaker 1: no food, no water, no nothing. They just drove him

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Speaker 1: around for eleven hours in July, the middle of July

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Speaker 1: in the San Joaquin Valley, UM, pretty mercilessly before finally

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Speaker 1: arriving at the destination, which ultimately was only a hundred

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Speaker 1: miles away from where the kids had been kidnapped. I

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Speaker 1: think they just wanted to disorient the kids. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that was kind of smart as well, because they

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Speaker 1: could have been, you know, eleven hours away if they

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Speaker 1: managed to escape or something. One of the girls years

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Speaker 1: later did say that she saw through a crack that

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Speaker 1: they were up there with a c go and drinking

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Speaker 1: sodas and have a good old time, and the kids

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Speaker 1: and ed Ray are back there just suffering. Um, just

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Speaker 1: terrified obviously if what's going on right. That was Jennifer

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Speaker 1: Brown Hyde who said that, and she has not She's

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Speaker 1: not very happy with this whole thing. It's still to

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Speaker 1: this day from what I understand. Yeah, as you can imagine. So, Um, finally,

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Speaker 1: at three thirty am on Friday morning, they were hijacked

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Speaker 1: around after three thirty one thirty pm on Thursday. They

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Speaker 1: finally stopped driving at three thirty in the morning Friday morning, UM,

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Speaker 1: and they arrived at a rock quarry. They're in Livermoore, California.

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Speaker 1: Apparently again it's a hundred miles away from chow Chilla,

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Speaker 1: and um, this is the what the what the kidnapper

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Speaker 1: see as the final destination for these kids until they're

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Speaker 1: ransomed off, until the authorities cough up the money. And

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Speaker 1: what the what they've done is bury a moving van

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Speaker 1: line trailer, so like a huge moving truck, the trailer

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Speaker 1: part of it. They buried it a total of twelve

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Speaker 1: feet underground, um, and have covered it with four feet

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Speaker 1: of dirt. And they've opened a hole, put a ladder

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Speaker 1: in and told the kids get down there and ed

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Speaker 1: Rey too, that's right. And as the kids were going

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Speaker 1: down and this kind of points to the direction of

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Speaker 1: how dumb these guys were and how unprepared they were,

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Speaker 1: even though they it turns out, would have planned this

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Speaker 1: thing for well over a year. They wrote down their

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Speaker 1: names uh, and their phone numbers in contact and parents names,

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Speaker 1: not on a clipboard legal pad, but on the back

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Speaker 1: of a Jack in the box wrapper, right so uh.

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Speaker 1: And then they took apparently some kind of piece of

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Speaker 1: clothing from each kid because the idea was once again

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Speaker 1: is that they have many, many kids that should bring

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Speaker 1: a many many moneys and dollar bills their way exactly,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that their kids means that people do

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Speaker 1: anything to to keep them safe. So these guys figure

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Speaker 1: they've got a pretty good pay day with twenty six

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Speaker 1: kids that they're now holding hostage and a buried moving

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Speaker 1: van trailer um. And in in the trailer, they had

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Speaker 1: done a little more than they had in the van,

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Speaker 1: so they had peanut butter cheerios, some bread down there,

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Speaker 1: some water, but definitely not enough to keep all those

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Speaker 1: people alive for a very long time. They also thought

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Speaker 1: of bathrooms. They made bathrooms in the wheel wells, and

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Speaker 1: they they dropped ventilation tubes with some fans to force

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Speaker 1: air in into the into the van, so there was

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Speaker 1: fresh air down there, um, but not a lot from

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Speaker 1: what I understand. Yeah, that's right. And the one faithful

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Speaker 1: mistake they made was that for their comfort, they included

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Speaker 1: some old box springs and mattresses and stuff with them

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Speaker 1: for them to sit on and lay on, which would

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Speaker 1: end up being they're undoing. Should we take a break?

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Speaker 1: I think we should, because now you've got twenty six

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Speaker 1: kids buried in a buried trailer right now in Livermore California,

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Speaker 1: three thirty in the morning. Not a good thing to happen,

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Speaker 1: that's right. So we'll pick up with what's going on

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Speaker 1: in chow Chilla right after this. Alright, So in chow Chilla,

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Speaker 1: that bus doesn't come back, so obviously everyone freaks out

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly. An entire school bus full of kids and

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Speaker 1: a very trusted h man about town like people. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a small town. People knew ed Ray and he

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Speaker 1: was a good guy by all accounts. Um, they were

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Speaker 1: all missing. So uh. The very first thing that happens

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Speaker 1: is they locate the school bus, which have been hidden

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Speaker 1: um and some with some bamboo and camouflage. But they

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Speaker 1: did find the bus right away, which, you know, on

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Speaker 1: one hand, that's good because they have a lead. On

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Speaker 1: the other hand, that just sends this thing into the

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Speaker 1: stratosphere as far as panic goes, because where are these kids? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I saw also that the bus had basically no

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Speaker 1: clues on it whatsoever. So it's like, we found the bus,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't help at all. Um, So yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they were panicked by that. So um. It became

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Speaker 1: pretty clear pretty early on that the child Chilla Sheriff,

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Speaker 1: a guy named ed Gates was going to need some help,

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Speaker 1: so the FBI came to town. Apparently they booked every

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Speaker 1: one of the hotel rooms in the two hotels in town. Um,

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Speaker 1: they brought uh, like all the state law enforcement agencies,

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Speaker 1: like everybody just converged on this town to help out

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Speaker 1: because it made national news, like almost instantaneously. Um. I

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Speaker 1: saw somewhere Chuck that like this is during the bi centennial,

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Speaker 1: and the bi centennial has just been going on and

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Speaker 1: going on and going on, and there was still by

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Speaker 1: centennial stuff going on, and this stopped it, like this kidnapping,

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Speaker 1: news of kidnapping stopped the bi centennial celebration. Dennis Check.

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Speaker 1: It was the end of it, not just for this town,

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Speaker 1: but for the whole country. Oh yeah, I mean this

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Speaker 1: went right up to President Ford at the time and

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Speaker 1: obviously Governor Jerry Brown. So they threw everything they could

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Speaker 1: at it. Um. The media descended upon chow Chilla like

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Speaker 1: super fast, and because it's the media, you start getting

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Speaker 1: these these terrible stories about like well maybe because you know,

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Speaker 1: they've never called Zodiac and this was just six or

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Speaker 1: seven years I think after the final uh what would

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Speaker 1: end up being the final killing. So they said maybe

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Speaker 1: it was a zodiac because they made reference to wiping

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Speaker 1: He made reference to wiping out a school bus at

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Speaker 1: one point. Um, any tip that came in they had

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Speaker 1: to follow. There's a chew on the side of the road,

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Speaker 1: so they have to track down that tip. Um. There

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Speaker 1: was a novel in ninety eight called The Day the

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Speaker 1: Children Vanished where the gang of people abductive bus load

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Speaker 1: of kids just to bring people out of town and

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Speaker 1: distract them while they robbed a bank. Ray's wife worked

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Speaker 1: at the bank, like you said, so they put a

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Speaker 1: bank under surveillance. Uh, so there were you know, it

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Speaker 1: was I don't know if I was to describe it

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Speaker 1: as a panic because the FBI was on the scene

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Speaker 1: in the state, uh, California Bureau and Investigation, So they

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Speaker 1: were doing good work. But there was a frenzy of activity. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think the sheriff had all the help he

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Speaker 1: possibly needed to chase down all these leads and everything.

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Speaker 1: But from what I saw, there was just not much

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Speaker 1: to go on. There were there They were just dead

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Speaker 1: ends left and right. Um, and so like there was

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Speaker 1: there was a just an enormous amount of panic and

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Speaker 1: terror in the town. Families started converging on the firehouse,

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Speaker 1: the local firehouse. For some reason, I'm not sure why,

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Speaker 1: but it became like the meeting place for anybody concerned

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Speaker 1: about the fate of the kids. And um, this is

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Speaker 1: where news would first be broken. And I think the

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Speaker 1: media probably hung around there too, so um, you can

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Speaker 1: only begin to imagine how anxious the parents were, and

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Speaker 1: then the town and then apparently the whole country was

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Speaker 1: was anxious as well. Um. And so it was really

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Speaker 1: kind of surprising when all of a sudden, um, at

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Speaker 1: about uh, I think about eight pm the next night,

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Speaker 1: Saturday night, so the kids have been gone for almost

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Speaker 1: uh thet about thirty hours, thirty two hours something like

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Speaker 1: that at this point, thirty two hours of terror, when

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, at that quarry, some people are

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Speaker 1: working and a man and a bunch of kids run

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Speaker 1: over and it turns out to be the kidnapping victims

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Speaker 1: who just present themselves to a security guard at the

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Speaker 1: at the quarry in Livermore, who gets on the phone

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Speaker 1: and says, we found them. That's right, amazing, and you

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Speaker 1: would think, well, pretty sensational story, but it was very

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Speaker 1: short span of time and all the kids were fined,

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Speaker 1: so why is it really a story. It's a story

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Speaker 1: because as we'll see, the trauma that they suffered emotionally,

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Speaker 1: and um, how it went down in who these people were,

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Speaker 1: who kidnapped them. But before we get to those dumb dumbs, Um,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the escape. Uh, they were down there

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Speaker 1: about twelve hours and running out of food and water. Um,

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Speaker 1: the roof. You know, they had a lot of weight

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Speaker 1: on this moving van roof and those things aren't super strong,

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Speaker 1: so this thing was, you know, kind of dented in

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Speaker 1: and it seemed like it might cave in, and they

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Speaker 1: were worried that they just couldn't stay there. Basically, and

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Speaker 1: this is where the story I mean, I guess we'll

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Speaker 1: cover both points of view, Um, the immediate history and aftermath. Uh,

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Speaker 1: ed Ray saved the day because he was the only

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Speaker 1: adult there, so obviously he was the one that broke

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Speaker 1: those kids out of there. Um. Years later, you know,

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Speaker 1: we mentioned Mike Marshall, the fourth teen year old that

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Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to be on that bus, and he was

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Speaker 1: far and away the oldest kid there and the most

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Speaker 1: capable to help. Years later, after a while of this

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Speaker 1: story of ed Ray, he finally came out and said, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, Ed Ray is a good guy. I want

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Speaker 1: to disparage him, but like it was my idea and

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Speaker 1: I was the one that really led the charge to escape,

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Speaker 1: and he was a big mess, kind of crying in

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Speaker 1: his hands that they were doomed and dead, and he

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Speaker 1: got on board and helped me. But it was really me.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I kind of believe that after reading

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Speaker 1: all the accounts is it took many years for him

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Speaker 1: to kind of come out with this, and it felt

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Speaker 1: like he even felt bad for saying so. So I

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Speaker 1: think that Mike Marshall in fact did lead the charge

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Speaker 1: to escape. Well. His his account was corroborated by another

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Speaker 1: guy named Larry Park who wrote a book called The

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Speaker 1: chow Chillas School Bus Kidnapping Cole and Why Me. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he corroborated in that or in

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Speaker 1: an interview you later on, but um, he was there

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Speaker 1: and he said that that's true, that that's how it

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Speaker 1: went down. On the other perspective, the fact that like

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Speaker 1: when Ed Ray like live the rest of his life,

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Speaker 1: he stayed in chow Chilla. Most of those people kids

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Speaker 1: who've been kidnapped with them stayed in Chowchilla. When he

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00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,439
Speaker 1: was dying, those same kids as adults now came and

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Speaker 1: visited him at his his bedside and say goodbye. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's plenty of opportunity for you know, a little town

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Speaker 1: to start talking, you know, whispers and that kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't seem to have happened. He seems to

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Speaker 1: have died considered a hero as well. So my take

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Speaker 1: on a Chuck is that he may have been a

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Speaker 1: gloom and doom about their prospects to begin with. And

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Speaker 1: maybe it really was um Mike Marshall who said, no,

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Speaker 1: we need to we need to try to get out

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Speaker 1: of here. But even Mike Marshall said after a while,

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Speaker 1: once Mike Marshall started to try, Ed Ray joined in

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Speaker 1: and started helping, and that they might not have been

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Speaker 1: able to Yeah, they might not have been able to

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Speaker 1: get out had a grown man not in helping them.

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Speaker 1: Like push against this, totally agree. I think we're I

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Speaker 1: think we park our cars in the same garage here. Yeah,

351
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 1: look at them. Uh so here's how they got out.

352
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Speaker 1: They took those mattresses and stacked them up, and they

353
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Speaker 1: took apart one of the kind of smashed one of

354
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 1: the box springs which are framed in wood, and they

355
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 1: started using that wood as like a sort of makeshift

356
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Speaker 1: crowbar to try and what these guys kidnappers have done

357
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Speaker 1: as they put um sort of sort of iron plate

358
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Speaker 1: I've seen manhole, but it was some kind of heavy

359
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: metal plate over the thing, along with two industrial tractor

360
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 1: batteries which are super heavy, and then dirt, so there's

361
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 1: ended up being several hundred pounds kind of weighing this

362
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Speaker 1: thing down, uh, this escape hatch. But they were able

363
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Speaker 1: after hours and hours to finally kind of use that

364
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Speaker 1: wood to pry open just enough to where they see

365
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: starlight and dirt leaking in, and with the help of

366
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Speaker 1: Ed Ray and and his you know, manly man strength,

367
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Speaker 1: they were able to climb out of there. Mike Marshall

368
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 1: was so Mike Marshall climbed out and then from that

369
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Speaker 1: moment on and so apparently also Edray was really worried.

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Speaker 1: I guess Mike Marshall was too, but it was not

371
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Speaker 1: a deterrent for him. But they were worried that there

372
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Speaker 1: was at least one or more of the kidnappers hanging

373
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Speaker 1: around with a gun, so there was a good chance

374
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Speaker 1: in their minds that they were going to poke through

375
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Speaker 1: and just be shot on site, so they were worried

376
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Speaker 1: about that, and luckily, when Mike Marshall poked his head up,

377
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Speaker 1: he saw that there was no one around. There's nobody

378
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Speaker 1: guarding it. They it turned out that they had long

379
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: since left UM and that so Mike Marshall had Edray

380
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Speaker 1: start handing kids up to him, and they got all

381
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Speaker 1: the kids out and then ed Ray out and Mike

382
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 1: Marshall ran into the woods to hide so in case

383
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Speaker 1: the kidnappers were still around, they just hadn't seen them yet,

384
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Speaker 1: and those kids were intercepted by him, at least Mike

385
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Speaker 1: Marshall would be able to run away through the woods

386
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Speaker 1: and get help UM. But it turned out the kidnappers

387
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 1: weren't there and and somebody luckily was still working at

388
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Speaker 1: the quarry I believe, including a security guard when ed

389
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: Ray and the kids ran up and presented themselves, so

390
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: that's how, and then I guess the guy got on

391
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: the phone and within moments of that happening, the news

392
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 1: made it back to chow Chilla that they had all

393
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: been found safe and they were all alive and generally unharmed,

394
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Speaker 1: and UM ed Ray was basically automatically hailed as a hero. Uh.

395
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,360
Speaker 1: Carl Marl Karl Maldon was certainly portrayed as the hero

396
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: in the Lifetime movie. They said, do you have anything

397
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: you'd like to say, and he said just that my

398
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: feet hurt. And you know, we again want to point

399
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 1: out this was uh, thirty six hours from beginning to end.

400
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: But these kids were I didn't know what was going

401
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: on above ground. They were hot, they were you know,

402
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 1: stripping down to their underwear. Carl Maldon was in his

403
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 1: underwear even in the movie. Uh. They were running out

404
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: of food and water. So as a five to fourteen

405
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: year old, I mean, Ed Ray was in hysterics. You're

406
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: you think you're gonna die down there. So it may

407
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 1: not have been you know, kidnapping that lasted days and weeks,

408
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: but that doesn't minimize the trauma that these kids suffered

409
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 1: down there, completely not knowing what was going on above ground,

410
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: and and daring to escape, not knowing if they were

411
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: all of a sudden that van was going to come

412
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: speeding down the road. After like, it took a while

413
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: until they felt safe, I think, and then on top

414
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 1: of that, Chuck you'd said it kind of earlier, but

415
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: I think it really bears repeating. They were really worried

416
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: that the roof of this thing was going to cave in.

417
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: Four ft of dirt on top of a moving van

418
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 1: roof that had been in the in the perpetrator's defense

419
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 1: had been reinforced with lumber, but not very well. Um,

420
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: that's a lot of weight hanging pushing down on this

421
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: And if you see pictures of what the thing looked

422
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: like from inside, I could see how they would have

423
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: been very nervous that the thing was going to cave

424
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: in on them and crush them. Oh yeah, like the

425
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: pictures of it afterwards, that roof was in the process

426
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: of caving in. Yeah, there was very nerve wracking. Of course,

427
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: if that would have happened, the dirt probably would have

428
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: caved in and gotten some of them dirty, and then

429
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 1: they could crawl out, I hope, so hopefully that's how

430
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: Who knows, But you know, like I said, they didn't

431
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: know what was going on down there, No, they didn't.

432
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: So but now they're free, they're they're they're safe, um,

433
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: and the authorities go get them, the the FBI, the

434
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: sheriff everybody's um interviewing them this is ours is more

435
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: hours for the parents back in child Chilla having to wait. Uh.

436
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: And then there was a a greyhound bus that went

437
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: and got them and brought them back. It was pretty sweet.

438
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: There was a lot of donations going on, like apparently

439
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: Pacific Bell donated not just new phones, but new phone

440
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: lines because there were so many calls being made by

441
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: the authorities and by the press, which will factor in

442
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: a second. Um, they the greyhound bus lines donated that

443
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: bus ride, which is worth mentioning. Um, I guess the

444
00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: FBI donated their time. Who knows now they get bad.

445
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: But there was a okay, there was a lot of

446
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: um there's just like a lot of banding together to

447
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: support this town as they were going through this, and

448
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: I just thought it was cool. There was a greyhound

449
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: bus that rolled up with everybody inside and they got

450
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: off and they're like, I'm never getting on one of

451
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: those again. Well they did kind of wonder. I was like,

452
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: maybe we should send like a few are not even Vans'

453
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: send twelve cars, no buses, no vans. Mm hmm, that's

454
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I get what you're saying.

455
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: We're just and of course the kids got good at Disneyland.

456
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: That was a big one. You gonna heroes welcome, They

457
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: got a parade, they got to go to Disneyland, and

458
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: it was as soon as the town went from the

459
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: saddest place on Earth to the happiest place on Earth

460
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: in the span of thirty six hours. Yeah, they had

461
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: a huge feast. I saw that um ed ray one

462
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: of vacation. Uh, that he appeared on Hollywood Squares, which

463
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: is that's peaks, that's peak exposure in the mid and Chuck.

464
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: There's one other little fact that we have to say

465
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: about this that Robert Goulay recorded a song called the

466
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: Ballad of Chow Chill Ray. It's so obscure it is

467
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: not on YouTube. Some either cursed or blessed soul put

468
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: it on SoundCloud. Yeah, you can find there's a cover

469
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: version on YouTube from another person, but I recommend the

470
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: SoundCloud Gooley version. It is uh. It is a product

471
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: of the nineteen seventies in every way. It's unlistenable. I

472
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: made it through most of it. Did you make it

473
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: through all of it? I made it through most of it,

474
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: then skipped to the end. It was something else because

475
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: it's sort of like disco, but It's also that very

476
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: seventies thing when they wrote these story songs like about

477
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: the kids jumping off of the to touch a Hatchie

478
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 1: bridge or whatever. Not touch ATCHI what was it? Billy

479
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: Joe McAllister like they wrote these songs in the seventies,

480
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: he is weird sort of folk story song. Yeah, but not.

481
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: I mean a ballad can be like a love song,

482
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: and these were like folk stories. I thought a ballad

483
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: went it was like told the story. Maybe, but I

484
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: think the ballads as love songs, sure, but a love

485
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: story like the Air Supply wrote ballads, they didn't write

486
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: songs about folky rose jumping off of bridges. You know

487
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: they should have Well, I don't know. There's really nothing

488
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: Air Supply could have done to have improved their game.

489
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: They were pretty much sound great. Yeah. One of the

490
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: best concerts I ever saw in my life was Air

491
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: Supply in Jacksonville, Florida. It's amazing. It was um, it

492
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: was amazing. I said it before I'll say again. It

493
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: was like the fabric of reality was coming apart at

494
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: the themes and we were right right there to witness it.

495
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: It was so cool. I didn't know you took ecstasy

496
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: at that. I didn't. That was what's what's so significant

497
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: about it. We were totally sober. Yeah, what was it about?

498
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: Was it just songs from your childhood or something? No,

499
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 1: it was, I mean, yes, that was part of it.

500
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: Was great to hear all those songs and see them live.

501
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: It was the chemistry between the two dudes. Um, they

502
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: still got it after all these years. Is really neat

503
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: to see. Um. And but what really kind of made

504
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 1: it unreal was it was almost had the same feeling

505
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: as like a really energetic tent revival. Like people were

506
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: wandering down the aisles, like like you could tell they

507
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: were moving not necessarily of their own will, they were

508
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: being drawn towards the stage. It was. It was bizarre.

509
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: It was so cool to see people were just out

510
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: of their minds at this Air Supply show. And and

511
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: like we're I don't think any of them were on

512
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: next to see either. I think like everybody was like

513
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: people were with their moms or with their kids or

514
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: or it was just a neat, neat show. I'll never

515
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: forget it ever. Amazing. So go see Air Supply and

516
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're playing a third rate casino near you.

517
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: Probably they definitely do the work, for sure. They supply

518
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: you with more than air. Though it sounds like dude

519
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: and the the guy's voice still is a d as

520
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: good as it was in the seventies, which is probably.

521
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: I was watching some bids the other day, live VIDs

522
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: of them recently. It's a good thing to do. Sit around,

523
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: but definitely check out the song on SoundCloud and listen

524
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: to as much of it as you can. You won't

525
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: make it all the way through the Ballad of chowd

526
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: Chiller Ray. It's so bad. Now I understand why Elvis

527
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: would shoot the TV whenever Robert Goolay came on. It

528
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: was because of that, because that's is that why I

529
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: shot the TVs? Yeah, for some apparently no one knows why.

530
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: But whenever Robert Boley would come on, he would shoot

531
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: his TV. Sometimes he gets really mad and shoot his

532
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: toaster or his oven or whatever, but he would shoot

533
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: the TV. That's pretty good, alright. So these kidnappers, getting

534
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: back to the story of the Chowchilla school bus kidnapping,

535
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: these guys were three real low rent scumbags who were

536
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: didn't have opinion to their name, and we're desperate for cash,

537
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: right In some ways, kind of. But if they were

538
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: also all three rich kids, if you can put those

539
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: two things together, there were three rich white kids. One

540
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: specifically literal trust fund kid. Uh, he was the ringleader.

541
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: We're talking about fred Woods James Schoenfeld, who were twenty four,

542
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: and then james younger brother, Richard, who was twenty two.

543
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: But fred Woods, Frederick new Hollwoods the fourth was the ringleader.

544
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: And uh, the I guess you could call it the

545
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: brains if there was a brain behind us. But he

546
00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: came from a long line of California money. His Uh.

547
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: One of his ancestors was Henry Mayo knew All, who

548
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: came in the eighteen fifties to California, part of Santa

549
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: Clarita's New All, California named for him. They made a

550
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: ton of money in real estate speculation and railroads and

551
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: then eventually oil and ranching and had a uh several

552
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: hundred million dollar family fortune. Yeah. I read that they

553
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,239
Speaker 1: made about three d and fifty million a year in

554
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: the seventies a year, just that family doing nothing. And

555
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: by the time this guy, fred Woods the fourth came along,

556
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: there were generations of this family that had never worked

557
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: a day in their life. So it's not like his

558
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: parents struck it rich and they remember their roots like

559
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: their roots were just gob smacking lee. Wealth is wealthy.

560
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: That's what they're That's what they knew. And apparently Fred

561
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: was not particularly paid attention to by his parents and

562
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: it had some effects on him. And I saw also

563
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: he had trouble um living up to his father's expectations

564
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: for him. Um but do nothing blue blood yea Um,

565
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: but that his his dad's approval meant a lot to him.

566
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: That's a terrible position for any any person to be in.

567
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: And I feel for him in that respect. And I

568
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: also think from from what I saw, there was a

569
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: New York Times article about him while I believe he

570
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: was still at large where he said that he's described

571
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: as a loser in the headline. The New York Times

572
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: calls him a loser, at least says other people call

573
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: him a loser in their headline. He was that kind

574
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: of person, and again it was the seventies, but he

575
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: was also that kind of person. He's just a he was.

576
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: He was the product of wealthy, neglectful parents from what

577
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: I can tell, and also an education system that seems

578
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: to have failed him at least in the grammar portion. Yeah,

579
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: we'll get to that. Uh. He was didn't have a

580
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: lot of friends. He never really had a ton of girlfriends.

581
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: Um he which is ironic because he ended up being

582
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: married four times, which we'll get to. Uh. He lived

583
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: in a converted apartment in an outbuilding on the nearly

584
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: eighty acre estate uh in uh Portla Valley, where his

585
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: grandmother lived and his parents lived. Even though they were

586
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: traveling by themselves usually. Uh. He got a job at

587
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: that rock quarry. Your first indication that they may not

588
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: have had the smartest plan because his dad owned it. Uh.

589
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: And he was into cars. He collected cars with his

590
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: money the um the ringleader did. He had dozens and

591
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: dozens of cars. His buddy James, who helped him. He

592
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,959
Speaker 1: was rich to not that kind of rich, but his parents.

593
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: His dad was a pediatrist, so they had doctor money.

594
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: So they were doing pretty well as well. Uh. And

595
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: they got into various businesses together. They had a used

596
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: car business together. They never did super well, it seemed like,

597
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: in any of their business ventures, because it seemed like

598
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: they weren't super smart. Right. Another good descriptor is that

599
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: Fred in particular loved his cars and he loved to

600
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: shoot the windows out of his cars with his guns,

601
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: which he also loved. Yeah, they had a lot of

602
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: guns between them as well. I mean it's sort of

603
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,479
Speaker 1: what you think. There are these rich kids who weren't

604
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: paid attention to that could do whatever they wanted and

605
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: ended up getting into trouble. He he had. Fred had

606
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: designs on being a film producer, and part of the

607
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: concept for this kidnapping was the school bus kidnapping in

608
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: the movie Dirty Harry, and he said, hey, this would

609
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: make a great movie too, which we'll get to sort

610
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: of the bow tie on that later on. But he

611
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: and James ended up losing some money, about thirty grand

612
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: on a housing deal, and depending on the reports you read,

613
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: some people say they were desperate for money, but if

614
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: you talk to James, he said, I wanted to buy

615
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: a Ferrari with it because my neighbors had Ferraris and

616
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 1: it was to keep up with the Jones just situation. Yeah,

617
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. You know, Fred was born into it,

618
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: and I think took money largely for granted, but um

619
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: James and and Richard, but James in particular really kind

620
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: of felt new to the area and didn't fit in

621
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: because they didn't have as much money. I think there

622
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: their dad was punching above his weight class socioeconomically in

623
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: the area that they moved to, and his son's kind

624
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: of suffered for it because they fell out of place

625
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: because they just they just did not have anywhere near

626
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: the kind of wealth that their their peers had where

627
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: they where they now lived. And that seems to have

628
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: gotten to James, and that was his big motivation. I

629
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: never saw fred Wood's motivation, did you. I mean, I

630
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: think part of it had to do with that thirty

631
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: grand in debt, but I think part of it, dude,

632
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: as he was a board rich kid in some ways

633
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: like that may have been the reason. So yeah, I

634
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: also yeah, and UM also I have the impression that UM,

635
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: that that James and Rick Shonfeld were um a lot

636
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: more moral than fred Wood was. Apparently in his journal,

637
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: James wrote at the time that he was worried he

638
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: was becoming immoral as they were like really planning this um,

639
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: and he and his brother were both Eagle Scouts, so

640
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: I guess they It is fair to say that they

641
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: kind of fell under the influence of fred Woods, UM,

642
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: who had no qualms about this whole thing. He convinced

643
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: them to give up their qualms as well. Yeah. I

644
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: think the last time I'll say the word smart thing

645
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: that they did was when they were initially hatching the idea,

646
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: they said, we saw in the news California State of

647
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: California has a five billion dollar budget surplus, and we're

648
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: not gonna get money kidnapping a kid or even twenty

649
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: six kids um from their parents for their parents to

650
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: pay ransom. But if they were on a school bus,

651
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: then it's the responsibility of the state of California. And

652
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: they've got all this dough so five million bucks is

653
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: chump changed to them. So we get them on a

654
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: school bus, then they're liable and that's how we're going

655
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: to get the most money. Yeah. And so the calculation

656
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: that they made was that there was nobody was going

657
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: to get hurt. They knew that they weren't going to

658
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: physically hurt those kids. They knew that California had a

659
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: budget surplus. But even more than that, um that that

660
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: their insurance company, the States whoever ensured the state, would

661
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: end up actually paying that five million dollars, and that

662
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: they were just basically taking five million dollars from the

663
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: state that the state didn't really need uh, and that

664
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: nobody was going to get hurt, and then that calculation

665
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: it really kind of reveals like how much they did

666
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: um lose any kind of morality, which is they did

667
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: they utterly failed to take into account, like the psychological

668
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: and emotional damage they were going to inflict on these

669
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: kids and their parents and the town in general. You know. Yeah,

670
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the things that because

671
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: that they I think even in the end they saw

672
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: it as like not the biggest deal because no one

673
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: was hurt and it was really quick. But like when

674
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,959
Speaker 1: I saw an eventually spoiler we'll go ahead and say

675
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: that the two brothers were eventually paroled, and we'll get

676
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: to all that. But you know, the the news teams

677
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: in were like following this guy around in a parking

678
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: lot asking him questions and he's just trying to avoid it.

679
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: And one of them was like, you do realize that

680
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: trauma these kids have still suffered into adulthood, and he

681
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: just went, uh, you know, I've heard, so I've heard,

682
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: and then just like quickly ran away. So even to

683
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: this day, they're trying to get them to realize that

684
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: there was a real impact and and and the end

685
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: result was trauma and PTSD. Yeah, and the reason it

686
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: did and it had the impact him part of the

687
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: problem for child Chill apparently, chaud Chill. It was just

688
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: transformed immediately. Like you know when when if you're the

689
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: victim of a crime, you you wonder like why why me?

690
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: Especially a random crime. And this is a random crime

691
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: perpetrated on a whole town like chad Chill. It was

692
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: a possible town among a number of towns in the

693
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: area that those three traveled to and staked out and

694
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: just kind of tried to figure out what the best

695
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: the best victim would be for this crime. And they

696
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: just settled on chow Chilla. They had no grudges against

697
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: chow Chilla, they had no ties with chow Chilla. What

698
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: the problem was. They didn't care about the people of

699
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: chow Chilla, or how they felt about their children, or

700
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: what they were going to do to them. It was

701
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: just a random They chose them, basically randomly. And chow

702
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: Chilla is the kind of um rural farming town where

703
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: people don't talk about their feelings. I think I get

704
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: the impression that they still think that that's weak it

705
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: shows a sign of weakness. And so I don't really

706
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: have the impression that the town has ever really processed

707
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: this and that they've tried to forget. And then there's

708
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: a lot of problems among the victims who are now

709
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: and they're like fifties, um, that that have never really

710
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: been resolved or worked out because the town just tried

711
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: to carry on as if it never happened basically from

712
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: the get go. Oh yeah, I mean some of them

713
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: got had very hard luck stories getting into drugs, eventually

714
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: getting better, uh and going through rehab and treatment and

715
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 1: writing books about it. Others say they don't trust people.

716
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: They suffered nightmares for years, some continue to Others have

717
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 1: said that they don't even really remember much of what happened.

718
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: I imagine if you're five years old, um, you're not

719
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: going to remember as much as a twelve year old obviously,

720
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 1: so depending on your age group, you may have suffered

721
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: some more obvious lasting damage. But they were all damaged. Um.

722
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: The way these guys got caught is well, I guess

723
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: let's tell a little bit of that story. During the investigation,

724
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 1: one thing they found in him and we'll put this

725
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: in the dumb column on the property of where where

726
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: Fred lived. They found a plan written out that said

727
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: at the top in ye, I think it kidnapping. Plan

728
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: didn't even capitalize the peak. Yeah, they wrote it out

729
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: in pin and they had a lot of ideas. They

730
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: wanted to buy an X ray machine. I think they

731
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: did to to uh two X ray in case the

732
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: ransom money was bugged. They had a larger plan. They

733
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: had one plan about them the state dropping the money

734
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: from a plane in the Santa Cruz Mountains at a

735
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: specific drop site indicated by a series of lights. But

736
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: they also had this larger plan of putting dummies in

737
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: a plane with parachutes, and it was sort of all

738
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: over the map, this plan over the course of a

739
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: year and a half. Yeah, there was this really reveals

740
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: I think a lot about them as well. That on

741
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: that plan sheet it said one of the line items

742
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 1: was burned the plan. Yeah, they just didn't get around

743
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: to that. They left a ransom note. Yeah, and they

744
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: had a lot of like scratch out and misspellings, and

745
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: apparently it referred to Fred by name in the ransom

746
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 1: notes that they were planned to give to the authorities.

747
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: Like really they were trying to throw the authorities. They

748
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: were trying to sniff the authorities off the case, I

749
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: guess by posing or presenting themselves as a Satanic group.

750
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: And they said that their their name was Beal's abub

751
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: but they misspelled beals abub um. They spelled b E

752
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: A L s A b u b um, which is

753
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: just offensive to anybody who knows how to spell that word. Um.

754
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: It's just like if you misspell things in your ransom note,

755
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: like you're not going to do very well for yourself.

756
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: Most likely, that's right. Uh. In the aftermath of the kidnapping,

757
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: from when they buried the kids too, when they left,

758
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: the plan was called the Chowchilla Police Department, demand your

759
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: five million dollar ransom. But the child Chilla phone system

760
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: was very small, and there were obviously when he kidnapped

761
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: twenty six kids and the media is descending, every phone

762
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: line was busy. They literally could not get through with

763
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: their ransom demand. The kids escaped before they even got

764
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: through with a ransom demand. I think you said. The

765
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: donation from the phone company. They literally had to go

766
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: in and install like dozens of phone lines just so

767
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: that FBI could operate effectively. Yeah, so they never what

768
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: did these guys do. Right afterwards, when they couldn't get through,

769
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: they decided they needed to scram that the jig was

770
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: up and they needed part ways, and they did. Fred

771
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: um Woods was wildey enough to have come up with

772
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: a passport um with the name Ralph Snyder, and he

773
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: traveled successfully to British Columbia, I think Vancouver under that

774
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 1: fake passport. But then when he was there, he started

775
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: writing to people. He had a friend who was I

776
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 1: think in film school and said, hey, you should turn

777
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: this into a whole um, like a whole whole movie.

778
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: He said, he just k right, just give me some

779
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: of them the box office, I guess. But he said,

780
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: but be fair, he said, be fair, but he spelled

781
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: he spelled the F A R E. Yeah, So, um,

782
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: that's that's I'm sorry, it's just annoying me to no ends. Yeah,

783
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: but um. But then he signed the letter or sent

784
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: it as Ralph Snyder. He sent it as his his alias.

785
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: So the cops, the FBI tracked him like within days

786
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 1: to um Vancouver and got the Royal Canadian Mounted Police

787
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: to arrest him. I wonder he knew the guy though

788
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: in film school. I wonder if this guy was like,

789
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: who is this, It's Ralph Snyder or if he put

790
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 1: in parentheses, that's my alias. This is friend. Don't tell

791
00:44:53,920 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: the FBI, but he misspelled FBI. So Rick, the younger Schoenfeld,

792
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: for his part, almost immediately confessed. Uh, he got home

793
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: after the three of them met up and then split up.

794
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: I went home and told his dad what he did.

795
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 1: His dad because they had money again as a pediatrists

796
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: got him a lawyer too sweet. And so that's why

797
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: we don't know exactly. That's one reason we don't know

798
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: exactly what happened in those first like, you know, hours afterwards,

799
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: because the lawyer kind of kept that all quiet. Although

800
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: it did see a news report that said they took naps.

801
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true or not, but I

802
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: did see that. It sounds right. It holds up if

803
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: you put it up against everything else. And keep in

804
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: mind once again, they took these kids to a quarry

805
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: that fred Wood's dad owned and where Fred Woods worked,

806
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,959
Speaker 1: and the quarry security guards said when they were interviewed, said, well, yeah,

807
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: last week Fred and two other guys dug a big

808
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: hole out there. Uh you know a few months before

809
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: this happened. Um, like h I don't know, like a

810
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: a moving van size hole, right, but the hole's gone now,

811
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: so who cares exactly? Um? So Rick turned himself in. Uh,

812
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: Fred got caught. James made attempts to cross the border

813
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: into Canada himself, but apparently the Canadian authorities considered him

814
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: a way too nervous, be way too vague about what

815
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: he planned to do in Canada, and see in possession

816
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: of way too many guns to be led in the country,

817
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 1: and apparently tried two or three times using his own

818
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 1: name to get in and finally gave up and turned around.

819
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: And I guess he had decided he was going to

820
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: turn himself into authorities, but because of an all points

821
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: bulletin on his license plate, he was picked up before

822
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: he could turn himself in. Right, So they're all collected

823
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: less than two weeks after it happened. Yes, all right,

824
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 1: Well let's take our last break and then we will

825
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 1: kind of quickly go over the sentencing and what happened

826
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 1: afterward right after this, all right, So they were collected. Yeah,

827
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: they were collected, and of course had their day in

828
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: court and the big um, the big thing that happened

829
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,720
Speaker 1: in court was was whether or not these guys um

830
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: committed bodily harm on these children, because if you committed

831
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: bodily harm, then you have a sentence of life without

832
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: a possible sentence a life without parole. If there was

833
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: no bodily harm, then you could have life with parole. Uh.

834
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 1: They ruled that they did suffer bodily harm. So Uh,

835
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: they had stomach trouble, they had nosebleeds, some of the

836
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: kids fainted, Uh, and that that counted. But in and

837
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: appeals court reverse that ruling said that is not bodily harm,

838
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: and that made them eligible for parole. Uh. And since then,

839
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, the two showing Fell brothers have

840
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: been released in I think like long after. Some observers

841
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: who were involved in the case, I can think that

842
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: they should have been paroled, like especially Richard shown felt

843
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: he was twenty two at the time. He was basically there.

844
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: I saw it described as along for the ride. Um again,

845
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: an eagle scout. He probably became an eagle scout three

846
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: or four years before this happened. Um. And he uh

847
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: he spent um thirty nine years in prison. Yeah, I

848
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 1: guess so when or he got out in twelve Yeah, okay, Yeah,

849
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: So Uh yeah, about thirty seven years in prison of

850
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: his life from age twenty two. He spent the next

851
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: thirty seven years in prison for basically hanging out with

852
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:26,760
Speaker 1: his brother and his brother's goofy friend doing something really stupid. Um.

853
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: And a lot of other people said, yeah, and if

854
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna let Richard schoon Felt out, you should really

855
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 1: probably take another look at James Schoenfeldt too, because yeah,

856
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 1: he was more involved than his brother, Um, but he

857
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: was still no Fred Woods. And then you get to

858
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: Fred Woods and people say, yeah, he probably just he

859
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: doesn't really deserve to be paroles. Yeah, I mean the

860
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: other two were model prisoners. Uh. And they also had uh,

861
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: I mean people that were active. I don't know if

862
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: it was a prosecutor or investigator. I think the investigator

863
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: for the case. Eventually he advocated for parole. Uh. Yeah,

864
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: So you know, some of the townspeople felt betrayed by that,

865
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: but they did get out. Fred Woods was not a

866
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: model prisoner. He was still as shady as ever. You know,

867
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to to run businesses from prison, but

868
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: he ran a gold mine. He ran a used car business,

869
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: he ran a Christmas tree farm. Uh. He got married

870
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: a few times. The reason he was finally outed was

871
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 1: he was running the Christmas Tree Farm and Michael Bianci,

872
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: he was managing that business, got injured on the job

873
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 1: and Wood said, I'm not gonna help pay for the surgery.

874
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: So bank he said, all right, and he filed a

875
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: state workers comp claim and they got on the investigation

876
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: and found out that Woods was behind the operation. So

877
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 1: he's not when it comes time for parole. That doesn't

878
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: look good. No, And I guess he's been denied parole

879
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:56,439
Speaker 1: seventeen times so far, and he's up next in and

880
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people think he might not, he might

881
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 1: never be ruled. Actually, well, he bought a mansion in Nipomo, California,

882
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 1: thirty miles from the prison that no one lives at.

883
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: Uh He did have a civil lawsuit in twenty sixteen

884
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: where he had to pay out money to the victims

885
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: that was described as uh quote enough to pay for

886
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: some serious therapy, but not enough to buy a house.

887
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 1: Which is significant too, because they did rule. An appeals

888
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: court ruled the night that they didn't inflict bodily harm.

889
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 1: But I wonder if that same appeals court would come

890
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: to the to that conclusion. In one based on interviews

891
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: with some of the people who were abducted, like like

892
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: Jennifer Brown High who I mentioned earlier, who's not I

893
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: think emotional harm would play in these days, and there

894
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: was definitely emotional harm inflicted. You talked about Larry Park

895
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: who was addicted to methane crack before he finally found

896
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 1: forgiveness and actually went and met all with all three

897
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: of the perpetrators and shook their hands and told him

898
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: he forgave him and apparently changed his own life like that,

899
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: If you haven't listened to and said, hey, I can

900
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: make you a heck of a deal on a used van. Yeah, no,

901
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: Fred Woard took his watch when he shook his hand.

902
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: Well I was, I was kidding, but he Uh. My

903
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: final little factoid is that that used Carlat had those

904
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: two vans and he held onto those because he thought

905
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 1: they would be worth a lot of money as the

906
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: kidnap vans. Yeah, which they might be worth an extra

907
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 1: few hundred bucks. I could see that, but I don't

908
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: know if that that if that's the crown jewel of

909
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: your inventory on Nick Cage bought him right, uh, And

910
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: then you can go watch that movie from lifetime. UH

911
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: called They've taken our children if you want to see

912
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: Karl Malden in his underwear. Apparently, bad movie, bad song.

913
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: I read also that Chowchilla residents do not care for

914
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: that movie Chuck because it was shot in Kansas, and

915
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: anyone who knows anything about the San Joaquin Valley knows

916
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: that Kansas is a poor stand in for the at

917
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: So they're a little turned off by that movie from

918
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: what I understand. And then last thing I want to

919
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: shout out um Caleb Horton, who wrote an article on

920
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: Vox very in depth one called the Ballad of the

921
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: chow chillip Bus Kidnapping is pretty good. Oh that's a

922
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: good one. Yeah, it is all right, all right, the article,

923
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: not the song. No, no, okay, it's an article, an

924
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 1: article I got. Okay, Well, since we had we worked

925
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: out them misunderstanding everybody. That means it's time for listener mail.

926
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this. Uh, let me see. How about

927
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 1: racist ticketing. In our episode on jaywalking, we talked about

928
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: people of uh and the black and Hispanic communities are

929
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: ticketed more for jaywalking. And this is from Valerie Mates

930
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 1: in ann Arbor, Michigan. Hey guys, you mentioned that black

931
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: and Hispanic drivers are issued more traffic tickets and white

932
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: drivers his entry issue In Chicago when they installed traffic cameras,

933
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: they found that the cameras, despite being raced neutral, still

934
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: gave more tickets to black and Hispanic drivers, so of

935
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: course they wanted to study that. The experts found that

936
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: more affluent neighborhoods are built with more features that would

937
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: naturally slow down traffic, more sidewalks, more stop signs, more crosswalks,

938
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,280
Speaker 1: while poorer neighborhoods had few of those fewer of those things,

939
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: and the result would cars would be naturally would tend

940
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 1: to drive faster in poorer neighborhoods. Since black and Hispanic

941
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: drivers are more likely to live and be driving in

942
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: less wealthy neighborhoods in Chicago, they were more likely to

943
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 1: be speeding and caught by traffic cameras, or so says

944
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: the evidence. At least, it's not just prejudice on the

945
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 1: part of police officers that causes this discrepancy, is actually

946
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: a difference in how the neighborhoods are built systematically. I

947
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting, uh and I agree. Thanks

948
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 1: for sending that In who was it again? Valerie, Mates

949
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: of an Ar Thanks a lot, Valerie. That's a great

950
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: one if you've got a great one like Valerie does.

951
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: We love little brainbusters like that. Um so you can

952
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: wrap them up, spank them on the bottom, and send

953
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: them off via email to Stuff podcast at iHeart radio

954
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of

955
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the

956
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

957
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.