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Speaker 1: Hey, what I welcome in Doug Gottlieb and this is

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Speaker 1: the all New All Ball. What a great, great pod

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Speaker 1: we have for you. The guy who I've come to

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Speaker 1: respect for years with the success they had at Belmont

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Speaker 1: is Rick Burt, longtime legendary head coach. Retired a year

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Speaker 1: and a half ago. We actually had his replacement, Casey

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Speaker 1: On about a year ago on the pod, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, coach Bird just got announced somehow I knew

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Speaker 1: was happening. But into this year's class to the College

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Speaker 1: Basketball Hall of Fame, I've gotten to do that ceremony

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Speaker 1: seven times. Hopefully I'll get to do it next year.

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Speaker 1: There is an induction ceremony this year. Anyway, I just

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Speaker 1: reached out and said, hey, let's I'd love to have

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Speaker 1: you on and try to tell your story. You know.

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Speaker 1: I got back to me that moment, said let's do it,

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Speaker 1: and uh, we got that for you up coming in

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Speaker 1: a couple of moments. Just a quick reminder, we appreciate

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Speaker 1: anybody who downloads this pretty awesome um download, subscribe and

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Speaker 1: rate us if you write a little review. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I'm told that it helps helps the pot and the

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Speaker 1: numbers have been spectacular of late, we have over two

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Speaker 1: d fifty thousand people download the second part of the

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Speaker 1: Frank Martin two thousand people download The Ron Baker. We're

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Speaker 1: just it was growing and the more we grow, the

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Speaker 1: better the guests are. Obviously a little bit more money

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Speaker 1: for your boy. All that stuff is good. So download, subscribe, rate,

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Speaker 1: and write a review. And even if the review stinks,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I prefer the review is good. But even

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Speaker 1: if the review stinks. You know what's crazy about this

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Speaker 1: college basketball season that started so far is I think

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Speaker 1: I'm already getting in I'm wrong about. Someone'll get to

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Speaker 1: that a moment. And we're almost done with the NBA

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Speaker 1: off season. The NBA like just ended a week ago.

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Speaker 1: I fl like right, although some guys haven't played games

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Speaker 1: since February. And that's weird, isn't it? The whole thing

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Speaker 1: is weird. Here's the thing that I would say that

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong about in college basketball. I think we should

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Speaker 1: probably let everybody in throw them. And I know what

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Speaker 1: you're saying, Oh, here we go, snowflake, Uh some sort

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Speaker 1: of participation award. What about the IVY League that's not

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Speaker 1: having a season? Sets to be you, that's like my

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Speaker 1: answer to those. But the thing is this that what

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Speaker 1: we've always done is this mathematical calculation over this game

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Speaker 1: and this win and that win and the others, Like

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Speaker 1: do you have any idea how hard it is to

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Speaker 1: understand who's any good? OHI will you nearly beat Illinois?

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Speaker 1: Illinois previous to that has looked completely and utterly unbeatable.

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Speaker 1: Now I would like to think it's because of how

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Speaker 1: he used pretty good, right, boul is doing a good

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Speaker 1: job over there, and and Illinois is tough. But I

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Speaker 1: also like, wasn't that Illinois third game in three days?

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Speaker 1: And and how you use as well? And you you

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Speaker 1: take in all the different aspects of quarantine and travel

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Speaker 1: and where you're staying, and you have to isolate yourself

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Speaker 1: and the rest of the world, like all of those things, Well,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna know generally. We generally know, like Gonzaga is awesome.

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Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's gonna argue with that one. I

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Speaker 1: think Baylor, if they're healthy, they're gonna be really really good.

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Speaker 1: And like the teams that we thought are gonna be

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Speaker 1: good are gonna will always give me a really good

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Speaker 1: Iowa can really score, don't if they can stop anybody,

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Speaker 1: but they can really score. Wisconsin should be very good.

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Speaker 1: You go through Michigan State, they look men versus boys. Man.

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame did not look like they had the horses

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Speaker 1: for that fight. But but what you can't tell is

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Speaker 1: that there's so many and I know you could. Godly

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Speaker 1: there's all those factors in every game. Yes, yes, and

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Speaker 1: coaches have warned me time and again in the past, Dude,

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Speaker 1: three games in three days when we play in Maui,

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Speaker 1: with three games and three days in Orlando, that's not

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Speaker 1: really representative necessarily of who we are. We may be

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Speaker 1: trying to work on something, we may be sitting somebody,

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Speaker 1: we may be still figuring ourselves out, like that's hard.

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Speaker 1: And then the conference plays some of these conferences games,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna go and play a team on back to

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Speaker 1: back nights. So is the second game? Who you really are?

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Speaker 1: Is the first game? Early, I don't know. Coming around

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Speaker 1: to the idea of everyone getting in the see A

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Speaker 1: tournament again, probably not gonna happen, not gonna happen, as

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Speaker 1: they said, they're not gonna happen, but they can change

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Speaker 1: their mind. Why not said everybody? Take it to Indian

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Speaker 1: let's figure it out. Let's roll more basketball. That's good

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Speaker 1: for everybody. Let's welcome in Rick Bird. He's not only

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Speaker 1: the winning is coach at at Belmont. Up until a

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Speaker 1: year and a half ago, he was the only Division

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Speaker 1: one head coach at Belmont. Took over the job when

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Speaker 1: it was an n A program and just down the

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Speaker 1: street at Lipscomb they had won the national title the

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Speaker 1: season before. How did he get to this journey? How

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Speaker 1: do you find basketball? What type of coach was he?

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Speaker 1: This is my discussion with Rick Bird, the Hall of

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Speaker 1: Fame coach from Belmont. Be sure to catch the live

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Speaker 1: edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m.

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Speaker 1: Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Ah app Well, he was just selected, uh

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Speaker 1: and he'll be inducted next year into the College Basketball

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. Something that of the things I get

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Speaker 1: to do seven times, I'll get to to induct people

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Speaker 1: into the College Basketball Hall of Fame. So that's something

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Speaker 1: that's near and dear to my heart. Obviously, I love

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Speaker 1: the support and I've been able to over the last

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Speaker 1: twenty years really tracked this gentleman's career. He's uh, the

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Speaker 1: all time when he's coach obviously at Belmont, and he

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Speaker 1: joins us He's Vick Bird. He joins us hear the

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Speaker 1: All Ball podcast. Coach, let me start with this, sure,

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Speaker 1: where where were you when you found out that you

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Speaker 1: were going to the College Basketball Hall of Fame. The

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Speaker 1: funny story is, it's been almost a year ago because

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Speaker 1: the COVID ended up pushing everything back. They were going

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Speaker 1: to announce the class at the Final four. So they

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Speaker 1: let me know literally probably November December of last year

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Speaker 1: sort of, so I could get ready and make arrangements

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Speaker 1: to travel to Kansas City and all that stuff. And

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Speaker 1: then when that when it got canceled, they didn't really

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Speaker 1: know when to announce the class. So short story, I

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Speaker 1: found out a year ago, but I didn't know until

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Speaker 1: a week ago that they were going to announce it

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Speaker 1: on Sunday. Um okay, So uh like if you're sitting

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Speaker 1: on what is somewhat of a secret, right and yeah?

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Speaker 1: So okay, So how about this when it was announced,

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Speaker 1: who was the first person to call, who was the

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Speaker 1: first person to text who? That's a that's a good one.

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Speaker 1: You know. It was announced during the game the other day,

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Speaker 1: and it was so and and look, Doug, I'm not

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Speaker 1: on any social media, so I don't know what gets

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Speaker 1: out and when it gets there. But uh, honestly, my

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Speaker 1: first call was from Brad Stevens. Uh. But it was

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Speaker 1: the next day, you know. And people don't call anymore,

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Speaker 1: you know, they text and and you get a few

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Speaker 1: emails every now and then. But I think my first

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Speaker 1: my first text was from a former student assistant coach. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's in high school now, and I guess he was

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Speaker 1: on top of it watching the game. And who was that?

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Speaker 1: Matt Matoes his name, Just a kid that came to

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Speaker 1: school too to want to learn to be a coach. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And uh that's one of the great things about this

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Speaker 1: business anymore, is it just helps so many kids, even

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Speaker 1: if they're not players, uh, to to move into the

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Speaker 1: coaching profession. What did Brad say, m hm, Well, we

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Speaker 1: have been friends for for quite some time since he

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Speaker 1: was an assistant at Butler uncertainly as a head coach,

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Speaker 1: and and he's been kind and supportive of me, so uh,

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Speaker 1: the basic stuff, you know. And and I tried, I

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Speaker 1: tried to steer it away from that subject as soon

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Speaker 1: as I could and talk to him about about his

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Speaker 1: summer and all that's going on. But he's I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's he's a little younger than me, Doug, but he's

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Speaker 1: kind of my idol. Really. I mean, I wish I

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Speaker 1: could have coached like he does. I wish I could

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Speaker 1: have kept my cool and poise like he does, or

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Speaker 1: Tony Ben it does uh every now and then he

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Speaker 1: got away from me. It's you know, it's amazing. It's um.

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Speaker 1: He's been a dear friend of mine and I agree,

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Speaker 1: like he we're almost same. Azingly, he's younger than me,

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Speaker 1: and he's like a mentor, right, he has he has

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Speaker 1: this like fatherly thing to him. He has so I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know where you get there. I

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Speaker 1: don't either. And it's interesting because he told me, I said,

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Speaker 1: how do you how do you do with the NBA?

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got these guys are grown men. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, they've got families, they've got opinions, they got

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Speaker 1: millions of millions of dollars. And I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: how are you doing the invasive? He said, firm with warmth.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's like he's just firm with warmth. That's

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Speaker 1: that's how I did in college. That's how you do then?

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Speaker 1: Like I just I coached kids now right now, I'm

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Speaker 1: coaching you know, eight and seven eight, And I lose

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Speaker 1: my mind sometimes just because I just we just I

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Speaker 1: asked you to do very simple things and I just

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Speaker 1: I just want you to try and do what I want.

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Speaker 1: And if it doesn't work, it's okay. You know, the

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Speaker 1: ball not even you know, I'm not close to the

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Speaker 1: point where I care ball goes in, ball doesn't go

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Speaker 1: And it's just did you listen to what I had,

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Speaker 1: We've talked to you, did you try and do it?

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Speaker 1: And if not, did you at least get back on

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Speaker 1: defense to try and make up for for your team?

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Speaker 1: And I just like lose what like my you know,

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Speaker 1: so I he's at he's remarkable with with I've had

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Speaker 1: forty years of basketball camps, and I know what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. It's it's hurting cats. It's really what it is,

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Speaker 1: and it is it's it's the teaching kids the fast. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you grew up and you're a basketballall you went

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Speaker 1: to Jeer College in Florida. But where did you grow

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Speaker 1: up playing basketball? Like? What was your first memories of who? Well,

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Speaker 1: I I grew up in Knoxville. Uh, my dad was

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Speaker 1: a sports rider for the Noxville Journal, and and his

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Speaker 1: beat was tennis see basketball, and so I would I

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Speaker 1: would sell programs when I was oh nine or ten

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Speaker 1: years old and instead of I could have made more

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Speaker 1: money selling coakes, probably, But but when the buzzer went

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Speaker 1: off start the game, I got to quit selling programs

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Speaker 1: and I and I literally went and sat under the

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Speaker 1: press table at my dad's feet with Ray Mears, the

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Speaker 1: coach at Tennessee, about ten or twelve feet to the

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Speaker 1: right of me, and and maybe a'd offer up on

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Speaker 1: the other end, and and just got to see basketball

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Speaker 1: at that age that close. Uh. And and I love

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Speaker 1: already loved playing it. Uh. But it's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a story that didn't around anymore. I mean,

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Speaker 1: my my backyard was where my goal was, and it

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Speaker 1: started out with grass and there ended up being no

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Speaker 1: grass in the backyard, of course, and all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. It's such a fun game to play, um,

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Speaker 1: And so so that exposure, uh, with just how great

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Speaker 1: the game is. And I think there's I don't know

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Speaker 1: what gifts people receive, but if I got any of them,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of like strategy figuring out how to win,

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Speaker 1: how to make things work. Um and I loved that

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Speaker 1: part of the game. It's I I'm fascinated about it too,

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Speaker 1: you know, from my dad was a coach, and I

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Speaker 1: don't think he looked at it the game strategically nearly

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Speaker 1: the way I do. Our brains and Suppo, we both love.

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Speaker 1: You're just very different. You know. He did believe. He

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Speaker 1: did believe like the first thing you have to do

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Speaker 1: is be able to counter the pressure of a defense, right,

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Speaker 1: and that's and then you have to play as a team,

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Speaker 1: both offensive and defensive. The concepts were very very simple

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Speaker 1: and fundamentals, but in terms of schematics and strategy and

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Speaker 1: finding mismatches and and how to create multiple closeouts and like,

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Speaker 1: that wasn't something that that he did. We we just

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Speaker 1: looked at the game differently. I used to go to

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Speaker 1: high school games with him and I would play a

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Speaker 1: little game and try and figure out what offense, what

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Speaker 1: continuity offense the team was running? How many possessions would

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Speaker 1: it take me to figure out what they were doing?

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Speaker 1: And you know, we would argue, and I'll never forget

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Speaker 1: there's a team j W. North. It actually very good

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Speaker 1: high school basketball program produced a bunch of Division one

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Speaker 1: players in Riverside and we're watching them play modern day

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Speaker 1: in a summer league game and they ran a one

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Speaker 1: four high set into a u c l A cut right,

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Speaker 1: But then it really became flex. So it's like one possession.

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's flex and he's like, that's not

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Speaker 1: flex for is that one for a use? That's u

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Speaker 1: c l A. I was like, well, where's the where's

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Speaker 1: the post up in the downscreen? Well, then let's see

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Speaker 1: a coup more. But we that that's what we used to.

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Speaker 1: So what was your dad like? He's obviously when you

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Speaker 1: when you cover sports, you love sports. But what was

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Speaker 1: he like was he was a super humble man. Um,

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Speaker 1: he was a great dad. He never I don't think

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Speaker 1: he ever yelled one time and he hit one of

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Speaker 1: my games that I played in or never criticized the coach.

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Speaker 1: Didn't let me criticize the coach. Um. And he was

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Speaker 1: he was an old style sportswriter, Doug that was there,

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Speaker 1: was not critical of of almost anything. It was not

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Speaker 1: a time. I mean he he flew on the you know,

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Speaker 1: the charter plane with the team, and you know it

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Speaker 1: was different. It was different back then, and he was

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Speaker 1: really good friends with Ray Mears. Not not that he

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Speaker 1: treated them specially, just never was critical about anybody. I

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Speaker 1: will tell you a real quick short story. He covered

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Speaker 1: the Tennessee basketball banquet one time back in the sixties

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Speaker 1: and a young Bob Knight was the speaker. Coach Mears

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Speaker 1: knew him and brought him in to speak, and he proceeded,

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Speaker 1: of course, to uh to rattle off about women and

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Speaker 1: officials and sports writers and so unlick. You can imagine.

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Speaker 1: At the end of my dad's story about it, he said,

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Speaker 1: last night speaker was Bob Knight. There's been some very

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Speaker 1: good ones in the past, but last night was not

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Speaker 1: one of them that was about critical. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: so my dad actually went to college with Bob Knight. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So my dad was a walk on at o'house stage

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Speaker 1: and Bob Night was on the varsity and he used

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Speaker 1: to my dad told me that his jump shot was

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Speaker 1: known as the blue dart over his head sixth man.

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Speaker 1: And I mean he used to go to coach Knight's

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Speaker 1: clinics when he was a young up and coming high

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Speaker 1: school coach in the college coach and he has somewhere

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Speaker 1: in my mom's house. There's stacks and stacks of notes

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Speaker 1: that he took. And it's very interesting. You know the

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Speaker 1: men we started with Brad Stevens, who I'm sure he's cursed.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he's raised his voice at some point time,

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Speaker 1: but remarkably successful in a completely different style, and like

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Speaker 1: your message can get across the exact saint but right.

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Speaker 1: And it's like the thing we learned as of all

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Speaker 1: these people's like some people don't have to you don't

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Speaker 1: have to actually raise your voice to get what you want.

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Speaker 1: And yet obviously that was not the style of Bob Knight.

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Speaker 1: Um okay. So as a player. As a player, yea,

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Speaker 1: how good were you in high school? Uh? I was

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Speaker 1: honorable mention all State. I was uh nice little point

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Speaker 1: guard who could really handle the ball. Tennessee had a

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Speaker 1: player back in the sixties named Danny Schultz, and he

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Speaker 1: was a phenomenal ball hammer and could even do all

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Speaker 1: that ball handing stuff. You may remember that Ray Mears

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Speaker 1: used to do that. You had a juggler on a

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Speaker 1: unicycle during warm ups. I mean he was a showman

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Speaker 1: and and and Coach Meyers is big during practice on

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Speaker 1: ball hamming stuff. So I could I could really do

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff at one time. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm five eight. Um, I went, I thought I was

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Speaker 1: better than I was, didn't have many opportunities. Went to

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Speaker 1: junior college in Florida, where they played in not even

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Speaker 1: a point guard style, and I was I was lost

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Speaker 1: in the long place. And I went back to Tennessee

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Speaker 1: and just went to school for two years at the university.

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Speaker 1: And then that's the time when freshman became eligible. So

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Speaker 1: Tennessee started a junior varsity team instead of having a

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Speaker 1: freshman team. And I played for a year even as

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Speaker 1: a fourth year, uh, college student, and that got me

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Speaker 1: back in the game. Or I don't know where I

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Speaker 1: would be right now, honestly. Um. And then the next year,

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Speaker 1: I was a student assistant, but still practiced with varsity.

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Speaker 1: That's Erney granted fell Bernard king Era. I practiced against

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Speaker 1: those guys every day. Needless to say, didn't guard either

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Speaker 1: of those guys. But uh, but that got me back

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Speaker 1: in it. And um, um, and you know the rest

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Speaker 1: of the story. I'm lucky. Um let's go back. So

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Speaker 1: Florida j Junior College was in Florida, Central Florida Unity

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Speaker 1: College in ocal Okay, so you're in Ocale. They won't remember.

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Speaker 1: No one there will remember I was there. It's okay,

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Speaker 1: it's okay, But but but you do and every experience

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Speaker 1: positive and negatively effects like I'm guessing, just guessing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I mentioned not running a point guard system. I know

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Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about. My opportunities in the NBA

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Speaker 1: came with the Lakers. That's the triangle. It's on a

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Speaker 1: point guard system, shooter, the opposite of what I do.

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Speaker 1: And and it does like in your brain, you start

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Speaker 1: to when you have players. And granted at Belmont you're

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Speaker 1: able to recruit your players right, but sometimes you have

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Speaker 1: players that don't fit your system. You have to decide

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Speaker 1: do I recruit this kid or now that I have

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Speaker 1: this kid, do I try and change my system to it?

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Speaker 1: And I'm and sometimes you know, if you're if you're

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Speaker 1: smart and you take in all the information from your

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Speaker 1: life which you have, I'm sure that in some ways,

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Speaker 1: how m if I'm wrong, affected you in your coaching,

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Speaker 1: that in the back of your mind you always understood

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Speaker 1: the player that the system has to fit the player.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise you're asking a kid to do something that he's

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Speaker 1: not physically cape Bob or doesn't bring out the best

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Speaker 1: in him. That's a great point. And I hope that

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Speaker 1: one of the things we did well at Belmont was

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Speaker 1: was make those kind of choices to get players that

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Speaker 1: fit the way we played, not only fit the way

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Speaker 1: we played, fit the university socially, academically, so on and

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Speaker 1: so forth. And I think it's the reason that we

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Speaker 1: had really a pretty fortunate or unbelievable rate of not

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Speaker 1: having transfers because you make if you make good choices

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Speaker 1: on the front end and you allow the kid time

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Speaker 1: to make good choices, and we weren't a pressure recruiting staff. Uh,

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Speaker 1: then your chances that the things are gonna work out

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Speaker 1: good are much better. Um, Okay, so Bernie and Earning.

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Speaker 1: It's it's kind of more of the stuff of legend now.

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Speaker 1: And I would I would say that the sad part

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Speaker 1: is that because Bernard King wanted got hurt, and two

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Speaker 1: because it just got overshadowed by the Michael Jordan's era

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Speaker 1: or even in New York with the Pat Youing era.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of people that you say Bernard

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Speaker 1: King was just an absolute scoring machine. There's there's a

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Speaker 1: high percentage of current basketball fans who don't know how

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Speaker 1: great he was, nor do they really other than the

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Speaker 1: kind of catching nickname of Bernie and Ernie show, do

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Speaker 1: they actually know? Um what were those two like as players,

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Speaker 1: as people at that point in time in their lives. Well,

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Speaker 1: I still would have a hard time saying that I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen a more effective college basketball player than Bernard

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Speaker 1: King was. Uh. And of course in college he was.

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Speaker 1: He was pretty much all low post and it pretty

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Speaker 1: it was amazing to me how he was able to

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Speaker 1: adapt and play like he did in the NBA from

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Speaker 1: the way that he played. He's as competitive a player

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Speaker 1: as I've ever seen. Um. Uh, he was. He was young,

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Speaker 1: an immateur, and he made some mistakes while he was

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Speaker 1: a Tennessee and he's admitted that, um and and and

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Speaker 1: has done one of for things since then. Ernie was

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Speaker 1: Ernie was talented player, but he was he was physically

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Speaker 1: and mentally tough, and he was cocky and in the

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Speaker 1: good way. I thought he was good. Um. I remember

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Speaker 1: we just kind of messed around one day on practice floor,

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Speaker 1: played a little one on one, and I told him

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Speaker 1: he was quicker. I thought he was quicker than that.

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Speaker 1: He looked and he said man, that's good for my head.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And uh, but he he was the

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Speaker 1: guy who knew how to play, knew how to play

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Speaker 1: the game. Um was extremely talented, but complementary to Bernard

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Speaker 1: Um and um, that was fascinating. Uh. That's the reason

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Speaker 1: they built Thompson Bowling Arena in Knoxville because you couldn't

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Speaker 1: get in that stokely Athletics Center to save your life

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Speaker 1: when they were playing you. So you're there as a

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Speaker 1: student assistant for a year, Right, that's an interesting dynamic

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Speaker 1: in and of itself. Right, your practice for the team,

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Speaker 1: but you're trying to become a coach. You're not gonna

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Speaker 1: try and be a snitch, but you do know a

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Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that's going on. Right, there's there's

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Speaker 1: this you're you're kind of both, which means you're kind

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Speaker 1: of you're you're kind of nowhere. What was that like? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think and I think that's true. Now to the

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Speaker 1: guys I was talking about, you have a you have

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Speaker 1: a kid coming as a graduate assistant coach or graduate

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Speaker 1: manager or whatever it's legal to call these guys anymore.

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Speaker 1: And uh, and they're they're friends with all the players.

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Speaker 1: But then they've got to assume a different role at times.

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Speaker 1: But I was really I was. I was basically coaching,

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Speaker 1: helping to coach the junior varsity team, but literally just

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Speaker 1: practicing with the varsity team. So I didn't quite have

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Speaker 1: too much of that going on really, And I even

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Speaker 1: still lived at home and not in the dorm with

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Speaker 1: all the guys, so it was a little easier for

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Speaker 1: me to be have a little distance. Okay, So at

403
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Speaker 1: that point in time, you're helping coach, and you've been

404
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Speaker 1: around ball your whole life. You know, you've seen the

405
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: system in Okalla, you've been betting that back. Now you

406
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Speaker 1: know Ray Mears and everything he likes to do. Um,

407
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Speaker 1: what when you get them? How did you get the

408
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Speaker 1: Marable job? Well? Uh, I was supposed to be graduate

409
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Speaker 1: assistant at Tennessee And there was a funny n C

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Speaker 1: double A. I mean I was there and I was working,

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Speaker 1: and sister A d came out to me and said, sorry,

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Speaker 1: you can't do this. I was in my sixth year

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Speaker 1: of college, which is an indicative of my academic success.

414
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Speaker 1: But dr they said, but they said that you that

415
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Speaker 1: you had you had to be in your fifth year

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Speaker 1: and in graduate school and it took me four and

417
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Speaker 1: half years to graduate, so they took it away from me,

418
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Speaker 1: but just just prior to the seat to the In fact,

419
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Speaker 1: right at school started a friend, Billy Henry, who had

420
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Speaker 1: been basketball coach at Union University in Jackson, Tennessee, and

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Speaker 1: then assistant to Tommy Bartlett at Florida and then going

422
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Speaker 1: on as the head coach to Baptist College which is

423
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Speaker 1: now Charleston Southern. He he had resigned his basketball coach

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Speaker 1: there in Marrivile College hired him as a D head

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Speaker 1: basketball coach head baseball coach, but he couldn't even get

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Speaker 1: there he had he had a contract to finish teaching classes.

427
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: So he asked me to be his assistant coach and

428
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: and basically run practice until he could get there. And

429
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: I even coached two games by myself. I hope they're

430
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 1: not on my record, but so I got I got

431
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: thrown right in the fire coaching a college basketball team

432
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: Division three. But and then I was assistant there two years,

433
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: and then he promoted me to the head position when

434
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: I was twenty five years old. And uh, I'm I'm

435
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: ashamed to admit how little I really knew. All I

436
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: knew was to compete and try to figure out a

437
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: way to win. But all I knew was Tennessee style

438
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: of offense, which was which was what? Uh, it was

439
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: a lot, It was a lot of uh, a lot

440
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: of They ran the fast break this summer and there's

441
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: a point guard system. They ran the floor. Bernard King

442
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: could really run the floor. They had two wings going down,

443
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: and they had the typical sort of transition with the

444
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: trailer and all that kind of stuff. But when they

445
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: got set up and coach Mears was most of his

446
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: career a very deliberate coach. Uh offensively, but as they

447
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: got better talent, they started running and it was a

448
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: lot of two man game with with Ernie and Bernard

449
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: on the same side of the floor. Uh, basically, very

450
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 1: very little. If you went back to to that time

451
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: in the seventies, I don't even know that you'd see

452
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: a ball screen at all in some games. You know,

453
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: that would be awfu the odd to people watching the

454
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: game today, But that wasn't used very much. Post Ernie

455
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: go one on one, they'd post Bernard up. Um. So anyway, uh,

456
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: I learned, I learned really how to coach by competing

457
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 1: against other coaches throughout my career, I really didn't have

458
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: a mentor at that level. Marrable, who was someone who

459
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: you coached against, who you learned a ton from and

460
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: you have to this day have a ton of respect

461
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: for him. Well. Uh, Bern Canfield was a coach at

462
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: Washington Lee for a long time and he was really good.

463
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: Tom Bryant was a really good coach at Center College

464
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: in Danville, Kentucky. Guy named Dwayne Farmer coached at Tennessee

465
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: West Lynn down the road. Um. But but as I

466
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: went further, you know, into small college basketball, the guys

467
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: I would tell you Don Meyer at Lipscombe. A lot

468
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: of people know about Don. When I came to Belmont,

469
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: that's who we had to figure out how to beat.

470
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: They just won the n ai national championship when I

471
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: took the job here at Belmont. UM Paul Patterson at

472
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: Taylor University in Indiana was a great coach. He coached

473
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: Chris Holtman, for example, several guys. Uh. And then UMU,

474
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: a guy named Randy Vernon at Cumberland College in Kentucky

475
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: was really really a good coach. Uh. So I mean

476
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: that's just right at the top of my head. Uh.

477
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: Those guys taught me that I better get good or

478
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: I was gonna get beat. Okay, so, uh, your your

479
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: best season at Maryville was like, oh, I was head

480
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: coached for two years. We were We were two and

481
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: thirteen after my first fifteen games. So that doesn't look

482
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: like a college basketball Hall of Fame resume right there,

483
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: does it? And then we ended up eight and sixteen.

484
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: Then the next year went fifteen to eleven, which may

485
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: not knock your socks off, but it was the most

486
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: wins in thirty one years at Maryval College. They were

487
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: not a powerhouse. I went three years in assistant to

488
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: Tennessee Tech. Tom Deaton was the head coach. He had

489
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: been an assistant at Tennessee. Uh and uh. And then

490
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: I went to Lincoln Memorial University for three years and

491
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: we had good teams there. Um. And then so you

492
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: show up at Lincoln Memorial. How much were you making? Well,

493
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: I can tell you I made as insistant at Marrible,

494
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: I made five thousand. UH. As a head coach at Marrable,

495
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 1: I made eight thousand and eight hundred. Um. I got

496
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: to when I went to tense Tech assistant, it was

497
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,479
Speaker 1: about twenty and I think I think I made twenty

498
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: seven or twenty eight thousand a year at Lincoln Memorial

499
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: and then probably thirty two thousand when I came to

500
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: Belmont is a d and head basketball coach. Um, So,

501
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: how do how do you make how do you how

502
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 1: do you make ends meet? Like? What else do you do? Like?

503
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: You you just coach basketball? Did you teach us? Well?

504
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: Because this, Yeah, I taught at Merrible College? I taught

505
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: tennis class. I can't remember what all I taught UM

506
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: at Tennessee Tech as an assistant, I I taught community

507
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: health UM. Well, that lowered the standard of the degree

508
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: at Tennessee Tech, I think. Uh. But at Lincoln Memoron University,

509
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: I was just a basketball coach. I had one poorly

510
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: paid assistant. Uh, but that is all I did. And Doug,

511
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: I can't even remember what I used to do when

512
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: we didn't have a computer in front of us during

513
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: the day. I mean, literally, what did I I don't know?

514
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. So So one of the things, one

515
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: of the things I've always been told about you is

516
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: how well you treat assistance. Right. It's one of those

517
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: things that where when when coaches talk to you, when

518
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: they talk about the type of person somebody is It's

519
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: not just it's how you treat your players and how

520
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: you treat your assistance, right, It's it's a lot like well,

521
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: I guess it's people like I don't know if you

522
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: trust people that don't have dogs, right, Like how you

523
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: treat your animals, how you treat your children, etcetera. Is

524
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: what type of person you really are? And okay, so

525
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: you're at at a head, coach link Moore, who is

526
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: your assistant? Your poorly paid assistant? Jeff Cheek was his name.

527
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: He had He had played after me at Marribal College.

528
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: Uh and but he lived he lived up there, and

529
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: so I knew him and uh and so he didn't

530
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: he was not going to be a coach, really, I mean,

531
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: he ended up getting into business and making more money

532
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: than than he ever would have coach. And I think,

533
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: what what is that like? In those old days where

534
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: it's just two guys and you're just trying to figure

535
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: it out with with basketball team? That's all I knew.

536
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: And in fact, Doug, I never did get used to

537
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: having a lot of people around you know what I mean?

538
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: I mean as we got is our is our program

539
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: grew in Division one and and we got more support

540
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: staff and more more kids want to be managers and

541
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: so they could learn how to be coaches and and trainers.

542
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: And I mean, we don't have a trainer at Marribal

543
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: College or at or at l m U or at

544
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: Bell there for practices or anything. If you got hurt,

545
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: just kind of split him off the floor. And I

546
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: can tell you something else. They got back up quicker

547
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: than they do these. You probably remember what I'm talking

548
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: about a little bit. But we had, we had, we

549
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: had we had a guy like that when I was

550
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: an Oklahoma State I'll leave his name out of it,

551
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: but he like every day, would go down every every

552
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: single every single day. So I have an eleven year

553
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: old son and he played last year. He played tackle

554
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: football first time in his life. And the first game

555
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: he's running back quarterback where he's running back and he

556
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: makes him move and he gets just smashed. He's a

557
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: little guy just laying there. They come out and get

558
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: him and take him on the field and he like

559
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: he takes his helm out. Now he's it's weird like

560
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: kids today. At that point, I don't think he'd ever

561
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: watched a full tackle football game. Right, like his first

562
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: flag football game, he was crying. Afterwards, he was like five, like,

563
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: there are no spectacular plays. It's like, dude, they watch YouTube, right,

564
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: and they watch highlights. It's all they watched. So he

565
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: didn't know that when you come out, like you had

566
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: to sit of play and then come back in. And

567
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: so I told him, like, are you okay, Yeah, we'll

568
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: get back in the game. Like when like, well, I

569
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: don't know. I just tell your coach you're fine. He

570
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: thinks you're hurt. So after the game we had a

571
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: discussion about being hurt, we're being injured. What's the difference, Like, well,

572
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: if you're injured, I gotta call the doctor to the hospital,

573
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: check you out. If you're hurt, dust yourself off, get

574
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: back in the huddle, you know, and and you know,

575
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: do whatever whatever the play is called. So the next game,

576
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: they're playing a team and you know, he gets the ball,

577
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: he makes a run, makes a cut, nice move, and

578
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: he just dam gets smashed. And he's laying there for

579
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: a second, and all of a sudden it clicked in

580
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: him and he hops up and he and tells and

581
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: the reps are so are you okay? It's like I'm

582
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: just hurt, just hurt. Their destined I'm not injured, just

583
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: hurt anyway, very very funny. But but it's it's uh,

584
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating because you know, they don't The way

585
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: in which they see things and learn things is so

586
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: very different because they don't understand. And but anyway to

587
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: your to your point, yes, now that they have trainers,

588
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: there's a lot more injuries and guys need a lot

589
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: more rehab and they need all this attention. They're like, yeah,

590
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: but we well, we we were fine. We all survived

591
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: back in the day when you didn't have a trainer.

592
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: I mean, anyone who's ever played overseas has had to

593
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: take themselves before. If you need a tape, right, you

594
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: had to find a way to you know, hop in

595
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: a cold tub or whatever. You just kind of figured

596
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: it out. And there's there's something there's something about that

597
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: that that is missing. Now as we try and the

598
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: more things we give you, the more things people need.

599
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: And as you said, he've been in his coach, you

600
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: don't really need that much. You don't need a huge

601
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: support side. You just you know, give me a whiteboard,

602
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: give me a team. Kids will learn and listen and

603
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: let's let's go. Let's go have some fun. Well and

604
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: back to your point, I guess about assistant coaches, and

605
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: I just I just felt like that great an atmosphere

606
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: where they wanted to come to work every day. And

607
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: you know, I had, I had assistance. I had one

608
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: stay was it was ten years plus the same three guys,

609
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: um and UM. And they all had young kids and

610
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: and they knew they could take care of that if

611
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: they needed to. And I just you know, I wanted

612
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: I wanted them to enjoy their job. And I didn't

613
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: feel like I had to do what I've heard some

614
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: people do. And We've got to have somebody here at

615
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: five in the morning, We've gotta have somebody here until midnight.

616
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: We've got to do this a point. Uh and what

617
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: is it like? What is the point exactly? Um? And

618
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: so it's it's uh, you know, it takes a lot

619
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: of hard work. But I hired people that were self starters,

620
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do what it took. And and again

621
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: it goes back to the choices you make and the

622
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: people you bring in around you, whether they're assistant coaches

623
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: or whether the players, or whether um, whether students, workers,

624
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: your trainer. I mean, you know you're you're conditioning people. Uh,

625
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: the choices you've make in those areas are huge. Um,

626
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: come about the Belmont shop because because for people who

627
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: know Belmont now, it is very different than the job

628
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: that you took. You took on when when you decided

629
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: to leave Lincoln where I know part of it was

630
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: they could get you more money because they would make

631
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: you the athletic director as well. But take me through

632
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: the process of taking the Belmont shop. Well, I was

633
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: at l m U for and you'd think that meant

634
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: loyal and merrimount, right, But up here at Lincoln to

635
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: Wall University, I was there for three years. In my

636
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: second year, we played we ended up playing Belmont three times.

637
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: We had them, we scheduled them home and home. When

638
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: we ended up playing them in a holiday tournament. Uh,

639
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: and we we thumped him pretty good. Uh. And and

640
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: on my trip to Belmont. And and when I was

641
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: at Tennessee Tech that's in Cookeville, and Nashville is kind

642
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: of it's big city. It's where you get the news,

643
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: it's the Tennessee and the TV station, saw and so forth.

644
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: So I kind of felt like I knew Nashville pretty good.

645
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: And I saw a lot of potential in that school

646
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: and and their coach resigned, John Purty resigned in January.

647
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 1: Uh he stayed on to coach the rest of the year.

648
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: But they started their search and and this seems really odd, Doug,

649
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: But um, they asked me. I had a good friend

650
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: named Ron Barghassi. He had been a head coach at

651
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: Austin p and was an assistant for Roy Skinner and

652
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: at Vanderbilt back in the day. And Ron knew the

653
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: the DENA students and the president, and he threw my

654
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: name in there, and they brought me down for an

655
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: interview and I literally took the job and it was

656
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: announced before my season was over at l m U,

657
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: which seems really strange to me these days. But it

658
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: didn't then, I don't think. And uh so, I I

659
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: just thought there was great innchel. I really liked the

660
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: the president. It really wasn't about the money as much.

661
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I enjoyed three years. But if you've ever

662
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: been to Harrogant, Tennessee, Um, and then you have Nashville

663
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: as a choice, Yeah, it was pretty easy in Belmont

664
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: was Belmont has turned into you know, Uh, it's just

665
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: it's quite school. And uh So anyway, Um, but but

666
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: you're right, they had for the previous twenty years or so,

667
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: they had a pretty significant losing record. And and I'm

668
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: moving into a job where Lipscomb at that time David

669
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: Lipscomb College and it was Belmont College. David Lipscomb College

670
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: was two and a half miles down the road, and

671
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: they were the nineteen six in AI national champions. So

672
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: I've often given Lipscomb a lot of credity, even though

673
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: there's such a rival for us. Uh, if their program

674
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: wasn't that good and Don Meyer wasn't that good coach,

675
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: we didn't never got there. Uh. They pushed us. They

676
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: were a standard and to reach that standard, you had

677
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: to become one of the best n i A programs

678
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: in the country. How did you do it? Because it

679
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: only took you three years to win the national championship?

680
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: How's you in three years? Now? It? You know? We

681
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: we uh, we didn't make it that. We made it

682
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: to the to the tournament. In my third year in

683
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: the n AI we beat Lipscomb uh in again in

684
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: a game when they were thirty eight and one, and

685
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: we went to their place and beat him I think

686
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: a hundred three. We had a we had a post

687
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: player to get fifty eight points. Uh and uh morning

688
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: night in the first half. And the famous story I

689
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: hear is that that coach Meyer said in the locker room, Well,

690
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: Joe Bailey has got twenty nine. He's never gonna do

691
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: that again. He got twenty nine again. And uh and

692
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 1: we win the game, and uh and go to the tournament. Uh.

693
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: The n a I a tournament for the first time

694
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: Belmont ever went. And then and then we uh uh

695
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: we we had a we had a great year of

696
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: our own, thirty seven and two in NU lost in

697
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: ninety five and ninety six in the in the n

698
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: a I semifinals. Um. But how did I do it?

699
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: I don't mean, I don't I don't you know. You

700
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: just you just learned. You dig it out of the dirt.

701
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: You you make mistakes in recruiting, and you see where

702
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: you made him, and you choose to make better choices

703
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: and recruit. But like like a job, like okay, So

704
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: how did you get him? Was there? His his mother

705
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: worked at Belmont, and he had he had been a

706
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: very average to below average high school player. But he

707
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: was six seven or six eight, and he the year

708
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: before I got there. Uh, he he had red shirted.

709
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: Then he then he plays the first semester for me

710
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: and doesn't play very much and becomes academically ineligible, stays

711
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: in school, works his tail off in the summer, and

712
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: he's All American the next three years and his junior

713
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: he was an AI Player of the Year. And that

714
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: got us playing four round one, which is what the

715
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: offense we've played most of my coaching career. The two

716
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 1: teams that lost in the Semis, you know, and then you, guys,

717
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: transition started to begin, the transition to Division one? Was

718
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: there for you? Was there, I'd really like to stay

719
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: at this level and win the thing before we transition?

720
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: It was was that not? I mean right, like, you've

721
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: built it up to where you're this juggernaut and you've

722
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: gotten so close, and then and then you leave and

723
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: go to Vision one. Was there this thought that, man,

724
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: I'd like to dominate this level and when it actually

725
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: win a championship before moving on? Well, I certainly I

726
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: thought we were the number one team in the country

727
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 1: and in Birmingham Southern Veatius in the Semis. Semi's Dwayne

728
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: Rebol really good coach and they won the championship. But

729
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: I really thought a little bit the opposite way, Doug,

730
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: and that was, Uh, you know, now we've got to

731
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: sustain this. We've gotta be better than thirty seven and two.

732
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: We've got to be better than two straight years. And

733
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: I would love to want it. But when the President

734
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: made the decision to go Division one, it was a

735
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: little bit of a relief. I mean, I could go

736
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: back to, Uh, let's start trying to figure out how

737
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,479
Speaker 1: to win games instead of how not to lose. Uh.

738
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: You get that feeling as a coach when when you've

739
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: had good teams. So you know, I think most of

740
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: us would choose to be a Division one coach if

741
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: we could be one, and I got to. I got

742
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: to stay at the same school that already loved and

743
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: and become a Division one coach. So I actually we

744
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 1: had some rough years uh we went Division one, but

745
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: most of that I enjoyed because I enjoyed building it

746
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: and I enjoyed seeing us getting getting getting better, making steps.

747
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: And again it was a different mentality I was. I

748
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: wasn't okay with losing, but it didn't just drive me

749
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 1: crazy because I knew where we were. Um, I've I've

750
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: relayed the story that you told me once on radio,

751
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: and I think it was when you got your five maybe,

752
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: which is when you first got the Belmont and didn't

753
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: you had to sell popcorn during the women's game for

754
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 1: the men's game, Like, wasn't that part of the job. Well, well, no, yes,

755
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: as the answer, I did, I did have to pop

756
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: popcorn and man the concessions stand, but it wasn't really

757
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,919
Speaker 1: part of the job. It was the athletic director's fault

758
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: for not hiring someone, and I was the athletic director.

759
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: So so when I saw nobody was going to open

760
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: the concession stand, then I had to get in there

761
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: and get it done. So that's you know, that's kind

762
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: of a did you have anybody walk up to you

763
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 1: and comment on your coaching and run your team while

764
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: you're while you're doing this? This was this was the

765
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: first game I ever coached at Belmont, and so no,

766
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: at probably most people didn't even know who I was,

767
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: not to mention that there probably weren't, you know, more

768
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: than two hundred people there period, So no nobody has

769
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: seen that our team and yet so I didn't get

770
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: criticized any behind the concession stand, but and we won

771
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 1: our games, so maybe I should have done that more

772
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 1: often throughout my career. You mentioned the years in Division one,

773
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: it was I guess really seven eight years until you

774
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: had it, you know, six years until you got to

775
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: the a son. Once you have a conference, that that

776
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: changes things. Uh, and then you did well your second year,

777
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: and then your third year you get the posting. But

778
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: you get to the n i T. Was it was

779
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: it a player? Was it a group who turned the

780
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: tide which took you from program trying to find your

781
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: trying to find your sea legs in Divisional one basketball

782
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: to being okay, now able to compete at your level,

783
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: at the top of your league. That's a really good question,

784
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: and obviously it's it's more than you know. It's building

785
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: incrementally as you go along. But but we recruited two

786
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: young men out of Northern Indiana, Adam Mark from Bremen

787
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: and Steve Draban from laporte Um. Fast forward to their

788
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: junior year, Steve led the country and free throw percentage

789
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: and Adam let it field goal percentage. Roommates but in

790
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: Division one. But those guys graduated in that year. We

791
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: went to the n I T in two thousand four,

792
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: and they brought an Indiana basketball mentality, Uh to our program,

793
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 1: uh the to the locker room, to the weight room,

794
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: to the practice floor. As much as as we as

795
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: coaches would try to emphasize that, uh, those guys just

796
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: did it automatically and that's that's the only way they

797
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: knew how to play the game. And so I give

798
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: them a ton of credit for changing the culture within

799
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: the team that sometimes times coaches can't even do. When

800
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: you want to fast forward to two thousand five, two

801
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: thousand and six, Okay, that was the first year you

802
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: went to the n A Tournament. And I know that

803
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: in your heart you have your better teams before that, right,

804
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: But but when you when you win your conference tournament

805
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: and you beat Lipscomb in overtime and you finally get

806
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: to the tournament, it's the finally we have arrived and

807
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: all of what you've built, yets not just rewarded, but

808
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 1: actually discovered by most of America. When you're when you're

809
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: up there at the field of sixty four. Um So,

810
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: going into that season, what do you remember what what

811
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: do you think the prospects were of that team? Well,

812
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: after the two thousand four season, it was a good

813
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: team and got invited to the n I T which

814
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: is as far as I know, it might be the

815
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: our program while I was there. That was pretty good.

816
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: Uh We we lost a lot of guys. Uh We

817
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: had a transfer from Tennessee named Boomer Herndon's that out

818
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: that year. And we were not real good the year

819
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: before two thousand five and six, but we actually ended

820
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: up finishing third in in the league when and at

821
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: last Son if you look back at that time, had

822
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: some pretty darn good teams and coaches in it. Uh

823
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: And uh So we uh we made some strides during

824
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: the year with young guys uh and, and so we

825
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: felt good. We felt good going into that year, and

826
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: we had a we had a good year. We we

827
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: split with Lipscomb during the season, and we tied them

828
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: for the conference regular season, and then we tied them

829
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: at the end of that championship game. And Doug, I

830
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: can't tell you unless you live in Nashville and and

831
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: know the tremendous n AI rivalry. And we we we

832
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: sold out Vanderbilt Memorial Gym one year in for a game.

833
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: And so we turned Division one first. And now here's

834
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: Lipscomb maybe gonna beat us to the punch and make

835
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: the n C Double A Tournament. I don't think I've

836
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: ever have been more nervous before a game ever. Uh.

837
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: And um and Justin Hair, sophomore from Cleveland, Tennessee. We're

838
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 1: down three, they make a three with about twenty five

839
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 1: seconds left. He drives the floor. I'm, of course, don't

840
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: have any idea whether I need to call time out

841
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: or just let him play. And he drives the floor

842
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: and gets fouled on a layup and makes a free

843
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: throw when they go down and miss, and we win

844
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: the game in overtime. And that changed our world. I

845
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: mean that who knows what direction we would have gone

846
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: in our lipscom would have gone in had it gone

847
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: the other direction. Uh so, Uh, your first trip, your

848
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 1: first time to win, your first trip to the tournaments. Um,

849
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: unsurpassable if that's a word. Yeah, no, it's it's it's

850
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: pret remarkable. A couple of years later, you took on Duke.

851
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: You took Duke to the wire because and you know

852
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 1: how it is that when you get to the tournament,

853
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: like you c l a Georgetown, he had Duke like,

854
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 1: who's like, why don't give us the Lakers next year? Sure?

855
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 1: Why not? A right? Um? Take me through the duke game.

856
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: What what your memories are. I remember we had a

857
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: terrible practice at Georgetown. We was in d C. We

858
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: had a bad practice the night before at Georgetown's little

859
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: practice gym, I guess, or maybe it's their gym, but

860
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: it wasn't very big. And I can I mean, I

861
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: can remember, and I'm I wasn't a screamer, but I

862
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: I was really upset, and I was telling them how

863
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: bad it was gonna be if this is what we

864
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: were going to bring to the game the next night.

865
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: And um, I don't you know, I felt good about

866
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: our plan. Um. And I can still remember this day

867
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: that that duke was was intentionally driving the ball in

868
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: the middle of the floor and creating all kinds of

869
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: problems with the people they were playing, you know, kickouts

870
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 1: and dumps and scores. And we did a nice job

871
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,439
Speaker 1: by not letting them take the ball to the middle

872
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: of the floor on the dribble um. And and we

873
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,959
Speaker 1: hung in there and hung in there. And I don't

874
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: mind telling you that when you play people like that,

875
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: and there may be guys who have different mindset than

876
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: I do, but I kept saying, gosh, let's just I

877
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,959
Speaker 1: hate it when you play somebody good for thirty two minutes,

878
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: then it ends up being a twenty point game, right,

879
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking, let's just hanging there. But we got

880
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: to the point in the second half where we were

881
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: down one, and I just thought this was was the

882
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: right time to show them something, whether I believed it

883
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: or not. Uh And and just kind of got on

884
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: and said, excuse me for saying this way, but I

885
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: just said, what pisces me off, guys is we're playing

886
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: better than them and we're behind boy one right, that's

887
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: and just try to try to deliver a message that

888
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 1: to those guys, Hey, we really do belong and he

889
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: thinks we're better than they are right now. And you know,

890
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: we we had a we had a couple of uh

891
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: just miss unfortunate breakdowns at the end of that game. Um,

892
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: some things I certainly would do differently. Um, we had

893
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: a one point lead with the ball and we had

894
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: a kid, Alex Renfro, left handed guard still playing professional

895
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: over overseas. He's he he had a great game, and

896
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: we we set a screen and roll for him, and

897
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: our guy in the corner lifted up and brought his

898
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: man right into Alex's way and he had to retreat

899
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: and take a bad shot. They go down and and

900
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: score and take the lead, and then we came down

901
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: had an out of bounds play that I that I

902
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 1: called that. It's kind of it's got to be there.

903
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: It's a lob and we basically lobbed it right to him.

904
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: You know, there's a there's a lot of things about

905
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,760
Speaker 1: then that game I wish I could do over again,

906
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: but it made it made our program in a lot

907
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: of ways. Um. I mean, we were the team of

908
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: the night that night. All everybody's that's back when it

909
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: was just everybody switched to that game. The Nationale Predators

910
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: were playing at home, and they put the game on

911
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: the big screen while the hockey game was going on,

912
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: and uh, you know it just uh he gave us

913
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: a chance and uh and led to and led to

914
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 1: uh some teams in you know, two thousand eleven, twelve

915
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: thirteen that we're we're really really good teams. He and Clark,

916
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: who played for in the NBA for six years, and

917
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: and a whole bunch of guys around him. Those guys

918
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: all came to Belmont. I think in part because what

919
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: they saw in that Duke game. I don't. I don't

920
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: think there's any question, but you know it's UM nine eight.

921
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: We played Duke, their number one ranked team. We were

922
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: a nine sever I thought poorly seated and kind of

923
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: same thing, like played him to the wire. You know,

924
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: our best player missed and three than a dry I

925
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,479
Speaker 1: call it time out when we only had one left,

926
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: and so we didn't have time out in the last

927
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 1: two and a half minutes or whatever, and we end

928
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: up losing by six. But you end up becoming like

929
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: the team of the day because you almost beat Dupe.

930
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: In the other hand, you're like, wait, we were better

931
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:14,879
Speaker 1: than them. We should have won that game, and it's

932
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 1: a it's a weird yeah, the space to be in.

933
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: What I find fascinating though, is that that was a

934
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: run that you guys had where you guys have made

935
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: those three tournaments, But then there was the next couple

936
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 1: of years of rebuilding. You mentioned Ian Clark and then

937
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: kind of the next crew. You love building. That was

938
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: one of the things that you loved about coming to

939
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: Division one basketball. What was it like building it again? Though?

940
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: After you had had that sustained success and we believe

941
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: we weren't quite as good for the next year, but

942
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: we're still were we tied for first in the conference,

943
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: but there was a four way time, but it's still

944
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 1: it's still a tie. And uh, and then then get upset. Well,

945
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: we have to go play Mercer at Mercer in the

946
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 1: first round of four versus or three versus six seed

947
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: and get meat knocked out in the first round them

948
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: and playing that College Insider Tournament and get a win

949
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: and that. But uh, in the next year, again I

950
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: think we finished second. Um. The thing that I probably

951
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: have as much pride in is from that two thousand

952
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: and four team you talked about through two thousand nineteen,

953
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: my last year, and you can add twenty two. It

954
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: for Belmont's program never finished worse than than third in

955
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: the conference race and only one time that and that

956
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 1: was that two thousand five year. So the consistency within

957
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 1: the level where we were trying to compete was it

958
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: was probably the thing that again if you look at

959
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: it from a basketball perspective, it's the hardest thing to

960
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: do that we did. But but yeah, we recruited, We

961
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,919
Speaker 1: recruited some good players in those couple of years, still

962
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 1: had good teams, not quite as good, and then then

963
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: Ian Clark Karen Johnson two guards and then two thousand

964
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: eleven team we lead the country and scoring margin and uh,

965
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 1: and we played eleven guys over ten minutes a game,

966
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: and we had fresh players on the floor for all

967
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 1: two hundred minutes that five guys can play. And that

968
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 1: was my favorite team to coach. Really why just because

969
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: of that? Because we I decided, and I say that

970
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 1: I I'd give my staff all the credit for a

971
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: lot of things that, uh, but I think I just

972
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: threw this one on them. Uh. We got to the

973
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: point in in preseason, practically preseason practice, that I could

974
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: see the depths we had, and I was gonna have

975
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 1: a hard time playing guys that were good very many

976
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: minutes if I stuck to an eight person kind of rotation.

977
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: So I decided, We're gonna press after ever made the

978
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:51,280
Speaker 1: field goal. Not not a crazy press, really a pressed

979
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: to make us tired, believe it or not. And so

980
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 1: so when guys come out of the game, they think

981
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: they've done more because they're a little tired. Right, And

982
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: I ended up and able to we were we were.

983
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: We were even honestly at every position, two guys at

984
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 1: every position. I say, even Ian Clark played twenty four

985
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: minutes a game, the most of any behind the team.

986
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: He was our best player. Uh and uh and so

987
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: we just we we went on a homestand where we

988
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: won four straight games by over thirty points. Uh. We

989
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: started the season losing close to Tennessee and win in

990
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: our next three games by average of about thirty five points. Um,

991
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 1: and that system worked. I mean, it just it was

992
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: just it was fun. Uh. And we we end up

993
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: playing Wisconsin, and I thought it was easily our best chance.

994
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 1: They had. They had just played awful in the Big

995
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: ten tournament, which probably hurt us badly, you know, because

996
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: then he got them ready. But but they end up

997
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: having a really good game. I thought they played really well.

998
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 1: I thought we could have beaten them. Uh. But anyway,

999
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: that that stretch was was good. Uh. Right through there,

1000
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 1: about four years were really and Koren's class really good.

1001
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: Two thousand nineteen, you were last year. Um, when you're

1002
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: you get a chance to get to the first four,

1003
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 1: and you got a shot at Temple and you finally

1004
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: win an n c A tournament game. What did that?

1005
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: What do you remember about that locker room afterwards? Would

1006
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: that feel like, oh gosh, it seemed like, you know,

1007
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,439
Speaker 1: it almost seemed like even though those guys certainly hadn't

1008
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: been there for a long time and they hadn't suffered

1009
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 1: through you know, seven n C Double A first game

1010
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: losses before, Uh, it seemed like they also felt the

1011
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: weight of that, you haven't won a n C Double

1012
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: A tournament game yet before. Uh. And so all of

1013
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: that was great. Um. Uh, I'm I'm a big fan

1014
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: of John Feinstein. He was covering the game for the

1015
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,399
Speaker 1: Eastern Post, and we talked. We talked golf the whole

1016
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: time afterwards, and uh, and then I and then we

1017
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: got on the plan we had to get right on

1018
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: the plane flight of Jacksonville, and uh, you know, I

1019
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: got to reflect on that flight about a lot of things. Uh,

1020
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: My dad had passed away, my daddy mom both if

1021
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: you just a couple of years earlier, and you know,

1022
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,399
Speaker 1: just thinking about how much that would have meant to him,

1023
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,399
Speaker 1: and and because you know, he fostered me through so

1024
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: much so that I could be a basketball coach. And uh, um,

1025
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 1: I was just really fortunate that I knew it was

1026
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: going to be my last year. We hadn't announced it. Uh,

1027
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: talked to the president about it, and a d Scott

1028
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:46,240
Speaker 1: Corley who played for me, and uh uh, we decided

1029
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: it was best not to say anything and just play

1030
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: the year out. And so to get to end my

1031
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: career that way with with a you know, end up

1032
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 1: having a first you go beat U C l A

1033
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: okay in the same year, and then you and then

1034
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: you get that at large pick, which nobody really had

1035
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: us on the board, and then it seemed like everybody

1036
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 1: was happy for us that we were picked. Uh. And

1037
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 1: then win the game, which isn't easy and Fran Duncan's

1038
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: last game, uh and um and then and then a

1039
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: back door tip passed away from beating Maryland in the

1040
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: in the next round. So first round draft pick the NBA.

1041
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: That's a that's a pretty good way to get to

1042
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: go out. It is now the back door play. It

1043
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: was the same play run against U C l A. Right,

1044
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: it was. It was a spin off. Let me put

1045
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: it that. I didn't want it. We didn't want it

1046
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: to look the same exactly. Uh. And we figured, you know,

1047
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: everybody in the world saw that play after that game.

1048
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: I mean again, I'm not on social media, but I

1049
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: heard enough about it and it got called panic. It

1050
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: got because what you do is you want to create

1051
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: panic because you picked the ball up, act like you

1052
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: got no choices. So that art was the same, but

1053
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: we got people there in different ways. What did you

1054
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: actually call it? If it wasn't called we I only

1055
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: call it panic because I thought that's what you guys

1056
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: called it, right, And then some people call it Belmont, Well,

1057
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: let's run Belmont because it's Belmont's play. What was it

1058
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: actually called? It was? It was, oh, what are our

1059
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: ball screens? Um? We're called you know, it doesn't make

1060
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: a sense any boy us. But our offense was four? Okay,

1061
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: four out one and four? We said a ball of

1062
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: screen that was an eleven, So it was four eleven

1063
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: was uh was a ball screen the middle of the floor,

1064
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: and and we called we put eastern on the end

1065
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: of it because we set this up for eastern Kentucky

1066
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: because Jeff Newbauer tried to deny every pass. Uh as

1067
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: soon as you crossed half court. So uh, that's my

1068
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: memory of what four eleven easterns what we called the play? Uh,

1069
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 1: But it became panic. And then when people asked me that,

1070
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: tell me about panic or how did you run? He

1071
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: didn't have padding, but but it was It was all

1072
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: the same concept of uh, of trying to get people

1073
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: think that that we're in a whole lot of trouble

1074
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 1: and it and it was there and their kids, their

1075
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: kid did a nice job. And that might have been

1076
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: I know that that Mark Turgeon and their staff are

1077
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: screaming back door from the other end of the uh so,

1078
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: uh you know, maybe maybe they but the but the

1079
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: guy guarding the point guard guy's fingertip on it or

1080
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: or it wasn't. It wasn't Dylan Winner's guy that was

1081
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: gonna stop it. And uh but you know it worked

1082
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: at you see, they don't always a things interesting, so

1083
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: so I don't know, I know you don't know this.

1084
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: So my uh, my dad had those tour teams you

1085
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: guys remember remember those It became right, so it became

1086
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: the e A Sports and all this stuff. But those

1087
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 1: you know when I played, you had Marathon Oil and

1088
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: you had uh some some other teams like that and yeah, yeah,

1089
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: and I really I I played. I could to play

1090
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: in North Carolina, uh in this deal and we played

1091
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: in Carmichael, by the way. That was a ton of fun,

1092
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: you know, we but the the so my dad was

1093
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: became like au coach in Southern California, and we had

1094
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: U c l A season tickets, and my sister went

1095
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: was a cheerleader there. My brother went to school there,

1096
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 1: and I got off the scholarship there and turned it down.

1097
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if that was a mistake at the

1098
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: time or whatever, but we went back and played, and

1099
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: at the time we actually handed u c l A.

1100
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: This was Lavin's last year, the worst loss on Paulo

1101
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: Civilians floor. And I and and part of it is

1102
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: I'm a Southern California kid. I went to game after

1103
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: game after game there. My dad was like a basketball historian,

1104
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: and so he taught me about what U c l

1105
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: A meant, about how dominant was and that. So for

1106
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: a kid like you who grew up basically on the

1107
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: sidelines University Tennessee watching Ray Mears and all these great

1108
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: SEC players, what do you remember about the feeling of

1109
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: beating U c l A at U c l A boy,

1110
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up in John Wooden was it

1111
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 1: was wrong during that run and he was you know,

1112
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: I had his books, I worked his basketball camp. Like.

1113
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: I went from Knoxville, Tennessee and drove all the way

1114
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 1: to actually George Ravelings camp for two weeks and Pullman, Washington,

1115
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 1: thinking well, it's on the west coast, it'll be it

1116
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: won't be that bad and west four hour drive the

1117
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 1: Thousand Oaks where coach wouldn't had his camp worked his

1118
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: camp player, I got to meet I got to meet

1119
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: his daughter who comes to the games before the game,

1120
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: tell her all about and I ate lunch with with

1121
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 1: with uh coach Wooden one day at camp. So, um,

1122
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: you know it wasn't the same teams, but you know,

1123
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: we we gotta win there. We gotta win out in

1124
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: North Carolina. Um, you know you we lost again to

1125
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 1: do about one h at Cameron one time. So uh

1126
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: it was it was. It was a highlight, big time.

1127
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: If you could, if you could explain to a young

1128
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: coach how you're able to sustain success, what would the

1129
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: answer be? I just I really it's back to making

1130
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 1: the choices of the people you have around you and

1131
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 1: deciding this is this is uh, this is the way

1132
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna stick to it. UH.

1133
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: For me, there was a lot about the character of

1134
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 1: our of of all the people involved in program and

1135
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 1: include all the players not taking chances. Um, picking guys

1136
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: from that that hopefully had been well coached in high school,

1137
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: from winning programs expected to win guys that were physically

1138
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 1: and mentally tough, uh, and staying consistent with that, Doug,

1139
01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: I I still think in recruiting that that a lot

1140
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 1: of coaches are just looking at the guy's physical ability

1141
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: to to become a good basketball player. That doesn't make

1142
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: them the most effective basketball players. There's so many things

1143
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 1: that go into that. And again, I think if we

1144
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: there's no doubt in my mind that at a school

1145
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 1: like Belmont, and you know, fitting fitting your program to

1146
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: your school I think is important in college. But uh,

1147
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: there's no doubt that that was our best chance to succeed.

1148
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 1: Could I go do that or could anybody go do

1149
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 1: that at Vanderbilt or you know any your name? Uh?

1150
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: Can it be done at Northwestern? Can it be done Stanford?

1151
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 1: You know that those are those are the kind of

1152
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: schools where I think those kind of things might work.

1153
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 1: But that was our best way, uh to be different.

1154
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: To some degree, we were you know, we we ran

1155
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 1: a different offense than anybody in the OBC. So when

1156
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 1: they when they played us, they didn't practice against it

1157
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: every day. They did you know, we were different, and

1158
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: you know, obviously Pete Reel's teams were really different when

1159
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: you had to play them back in the day, and

1160
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: anytime you played a Princeton style offense, it was different

1161
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 1: and it was hard. We weren't that, but we were

1162
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: different the way we played the game, and I think

1163
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: that gave us an advantage. I think it did too.

1164
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: I thought that was I called your Arizona game, and

1165
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: it was one of those I had a really bad

1166
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: feeling for you. And it was because it was one

1167
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: of the few high major teams that actually was playing small,

1168
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: and because you guys had such great spacing and ball handling,

1169
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 1: it didn't actually work against them because at that time

1170
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: they decided to play small, and you know, you you

1171
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: end up creating kind of mismatches, uh, for teams, and

1172
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: your your teams were so skilled. Now part of it, though,

1173
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 1: is I'm not sure you're giving yourself enough credit. You

1174
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: developed players as well, right, Like Dylan Winner wasn't he

1175
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: was a twenty four game guy, but it wasn't a

1176
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: twenty four game guy when he got there. His first

1177
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: couple of years, he got better and better and better.

1178
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 1: The culture of improvement end of skilled developed with me,

1179
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: what are your what are your thoughts on how you

1180
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: build that within your program in terms of how hands

1181
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: on were you as a head coach that getting guys

1182
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: and things like that. Fundamentals and every day and practice

1183
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 1: that's where that's where, well, I think fundamentals and practice

1184
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: and being demanding in those areas I was okay at

1185
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 1: I think the skill development goes way more to to

1186
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 1: my staff than to me. I mean I would I

1187
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 1: would be at some of our individual workout stuff, but

1188
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: not all of them at all, and they ran them

1189
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: and uh so, uh it was it's it's definitely important.

1190
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: I'm still though. Doug was always kind of a dinosaur,

1191
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: old school guy. I also wanted you guys to be

1192
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: able to be regular students as much as we could,

1193
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: and we were not nearly the three sixty five day

1194
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: a year program. We didn't have mandatory summer stuff for

1195
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 1: our guys. And uh the last few years they would

1196
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 1: come in June when we had basketball camps. They worked

1197
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 1: the camps and we get some practice this is in

1198
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 1: but they go home and uh, I don't I don't

1199
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:06,919
Speaker 1: think it hurt us. I mean, I think I think

1200
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: guys were well rounded and relaxed, and they were excited

1201
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: when the old school October practices rolled around. Yeah, they didn't.

1202
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 1: They didn't get tired of each other, right, that's part

1203
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: of it. You didn't didn't get tired of me that

1204
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: I have this. I believe that that there's a mandatory limit,

1205
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 1: that a that a that a coach can go over.

1206
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 1: You gotta be here, You've gotta be a study hall.

1207
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 1: You've gotta be doing this. You've gotta be doing this.

1208
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 1: And they control lives and maybe that's maybe that's a

1209
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 1: good thing at some places with some kids. But for

1210
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 1: our kids, who are pretty mature and pretty good self starters, Um,

1211
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 1: we were okay, uh, but you know, let letting them,

1212
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: letting them go, and they love the game. It was

1213
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 1: another thing recruit guys that loved the game. They don't

1214
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 1: want to go play pick up when we're not telling

1215
01:06:55,920 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 1: them to. I don't. I don't want them. Um. It's interesting.

1216
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: You've talked a lot about Lipscomb and that rivalry and

1217
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: and what it meant for you to overcome Lipscomb and

1218
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 1: ultimately become kind of the dominant powerhouse within the city

1219
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: of Nashville. Casey comes over from Lipscomb and is now,

1220
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: what is that like for you to have the man

1221
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: who's on your sidelines as a guy who came over

1222
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: from Lipscomb. Well, you know, Casey, Casey played for me,

1223
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: he was on that seven and two and he was

1224
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 1: my assistant for fifteen years. So I'll let Lipscom borrow

1225
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 1: him for a for a few years. But but but

1226
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 1: was there there was no what was interesting to me?

1227
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 1: And I had him on my podcast and we talked

1228
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 1: about this. But there was some guys not all okay.

1229
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 1: Some guys though they well you go to the other side,

1230
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: that's the dark side, that kind of you know, you

1231
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: understand what in terms of a rivalry, like, I know

1232
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: he's your guy, I know he played for you, assistant

1233
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: for you, But but you occupied the same city and

1234
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 1: your arrivals and now he's back on your sideline. There

1235
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: was there was no hesitation for you in terms of

1236
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 1: that happening. No, I think I think he and I

1237
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 1: go a lot deeper than that. And uh, I was.

1238
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 1: I was as honest as I could be with Philip

1239
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 1: Pudgison when he talked to me about Casey, about uh,

1240
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:20,680
Speaker 1: about how good a coach I thought he was and

1241
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 1: he was a great choice. Uh, you know, it goes

1242
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 1: back to what it's all about assistant coaches. I was

1243
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: always for what's best for them. We had those guys

1244
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 1: for ten years, the same guys. But you know, I

1245
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 1: tried to help Casey get some head jobs during that

1246
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 1: time and and any time anybody else had a better

1247
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:41,839
Speaker 1: chance help him get it there. There are more important

1248
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,640
Speaker 1: things in this world than actually didn't win in the

1249
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 1: next basketball game or maybe even the next championship. And

1250
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: people that you care about you want the best for them.

1251
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 1: And it really helped me. You know. It's it's easy

1252
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: to get edgy about a huge rival and just decide

1253
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: you don't like anything about them. Well, I liked plenty

1254
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 1: about him in case he was there, um and and

1255
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 1: I do now. Lenny A. Koff is really a good

1256
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: man and really a good basketball coach that's there now.

1257
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 1: And you know, I find myself pull him for Lipscomb

1258
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 1: last several years when when frankly I never would have before. Yeah, no,

1259
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: it's it's it's interesting because but here's here's maybe the

1260
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 1: part that in addition to getting to the College Basket

1261
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame and winning the n c A Terman

1262
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 1: game in your last year and winning all those games

1263
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:35,720
Speaker 1: at at Belmont. The idea though, if you think about it,

1264
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 1: from when you arrived at Belmont where Lipscomb is the

1265
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 1: reigning national champion two now, it wasn't a question. I mean,

1266
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: Casey told us it wasn't a question. Belmont asked I'm

1267
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:49,600
Speaker 1: taking that job right that it wasn't And I know

1268
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: he played there into alma mater. But to leave Lipscombe

1269
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 1: for Belmont and no one batting an eye because Belmont

1270
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,600
Speaker 1: is the more prestigious program, only speaks volume for what

1271
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 1: you guys. That's that's a fair way to look at,

1272
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 1: isn't it. Well? I think it is. I think a

1273
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 1: lot of a lot goes into that. I appreciated our

1274
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 1: our best. We did have a Hey, look, I lost

1275
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 1: a lot of games to two lives come over the

1276
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 1: n AI years, but we we ended up with a

1277
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,640
Speaker 1: pretty good run one maybe eleven a row at one

1278
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: point um and until Casey beat me a couple of

1279
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 1: times soundly, by the way, not close, just beat and

1280
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 1: then uh uh. But the school, the school as a

1281
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:32,759
Speaker 1: whole really really has grown in in prestige and inc

1282
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:39,719
Speaker 1: the recognition it receives regionally, uh, certainly a national certainly

1283
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 1: in Nashville and nationally for that matter. So all that

1284
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: came together to make Belmont at this point, uh a

1285
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: better job. Your greatest success story as a coach, as

1286
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: a player, doesn't that to be in because he made

1287
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: to the NBA. Could be somebody who's a champion in

1288
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: business or somebody's a champion in life. If somebody said, coach,

1289
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: who's your greatest success story? Oh, you should have submitted

1290
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 1: that to me before. Now you're you're you're talking about

1291
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 1: just an individual. Uh, oh gosh, I'm gonna there's so many,

1292
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: so many kids. Um, I don't I don't have a

1293
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 1: good when it comes to mind that that stands out.

1294
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,600
Speaker 1: I don't mean I've got a lot of good a

1295
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:31,559
Speaker 1: lot of good ones, a lot of a ton of

1296
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: guys I'm proud of. Uh, nothing jumps out at me.

1297
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 1: Uh is a young man that Uh, there's there's a

1298
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 1: ton of them that have gone, gosh, I've got a

1299
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 1: lot of howbout how about this? How about this? In Okay?

1300
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:51,560
Speaker 1: For end to make it? What? Who? What was he

1301
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: like when you first got it? He? I thought he

1302
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 1: was an SEC level player. I remember standing by Bruce

1303
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: Pearl and Bruce didn't like his uh his release, And

1304
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 1: turns out he you know, he's got a pretty good

1305
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: percentage from three, like forty something over his career. And

1306
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 1: and uh, now, Bruce, he makes plenty of good calls

1307
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: on players, don't get me wrong, but uh, he didn't

1308
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 1: get recruited there and mil Tennessee State and I's want

1309
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 1: him pretty badly and we got we were fortunately won

1310
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 1: that battle. He was Uh, he was and probably still

1311
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 1: is a little little skinnier than that he needed to

1312
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 1: be to be as good as he could be. Uh,

1313
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 1: but he loved the game, He worked at it. He

1314
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 1: was humble throughout his career. He was easy to coach.

1315
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 1: And that's not always the case when it comes to

1316
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 1: guys who who get better and better and better while

1317
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:47,719
Speaker 1: they're there. Uh So we I didn't have to coach

1318
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:52,480
Speaker 1: entitled guys, Doug and that that's a that's a tremendous

1319
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 1: relief for a basketball any coach. Did I have to

1320
01:12:56,400 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: deal with that kind of mentality? Uh so? Uh uh,

1321
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 1: you know, it just would it would be more the

1322
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,240
Speaker 1: whole of it. The and I and I said this

1323
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 1: about this award, and I mean, the game is about players.

1324
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 1: And I know coaches study in places a long time,

1325
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: but it's supposed to be about players, and that's the

1326
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 1: guys that deserve the credit. And I can't I can't.

1327
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:22,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what that award looks like physically, but

1328
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,439
Speaker 1: I can't chip off enough pieces to give to all

1329
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 1: the players that got me there. Well, you did get there,

1330
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 1: and a lot of it is you and the people

1331
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 1: you surround yourself with, and your leadership and and and

1332
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 1: what it meant to not just the program, but as

1333
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 1: you point out, the school, because the school, and I

1334
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:42,719
Speaker 1: do think that the Duke Game is as responsible for

1335
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 1: the growth of the program and the school as as

1336
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 1: any of the other wonderful things that go on at

1337
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:52,839
Speaker 1: that university. It's just crazy outworks brought so much attention

1338
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 1: to what you had been building and what the school

1339
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 1: had been building, and now I think even doubly so

1340
01:13:57,640 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 1: you go into the Hall of Fame, it marks look

1341
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:04,720
Speaker 1: at incredible history, thirty years of success, and that you're

1342
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:07,080
Speaker 1: able to keep it going with Casey makes it even

1343
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 1: more special and and and sustainable. Sustainable success is really

1344
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: really hard in business, in life, and in basketball, especially

1345
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 1: because there's always somebody taking a shout at the big guy. Right,

1346
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:21,599
Speaker 1: you're right, You're right, Thank you. Well listen, I cannot

1347
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 1: tell you how appreciative I am of your time. Uh,

1348
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 1: it was always wonderful to call your games. I hope

1349
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 1: to induct you next year in Kansas. I hope so

1350
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 1: hope you and your family are well. And thank you

1351
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Thank you very much, Thanks

1352
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 1: so yeah. Thanks coach. Be sure to catch the live

1353
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 1: edition of the Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three

1354
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 1: p m. Easter noon Pacific. And that was amazing to

1355
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:48,599
Speaker 1: catch up with Rick Birds, such an outstanding human being,

1356
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: great basketball coach and and leader of men. Hope you

1357
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. We have a corner copia of previous guests,

1358
01:14:56,600 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 1: including um the man who replaced him as head coach

1359
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 1: at Belmont. We got we got so much, so much

1360
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 1: stuff to get to, uh, simply amazing. Just check out

1361
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 1: the All Ball Podcast, check out our archives and you

1362
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 1: won't want to miss all of the guests we have

1363
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 1: upcoming as well. By the way, you know you can

1364
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 1: do You can go to my face my Instagram page

1365
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 1: at Gottlieb Show and if you have a question or

1366
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 1: a message, I will read it on air on my

1367
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 1: next pot got that at Gottlieb Show on the Instagram page,

1368
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 1: I'll check out the messages. I haven't checked those things

1369
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:33,200
Speaker 1: out for a long time. Then I did, and I'm like,

1370
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that's actually how I caught up with

1371
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 1: a Little Wayne. Was like, Little Wayne has been texting

1372
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 1: me on on I g and like, I'm never on that.

1373
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,639
Speaker 1: My son was like, hey, dad, little Wayne is texting

1374
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 1: you anyway. The Daily Show is three to sixth Eastern,

1375
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 1: twelve three Pacific. We talk all sports and again my

1376
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: appreciation to you, Rick Bird, but also don't forget to

1377
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 1: download subscribe rate writer review for us. Thanks so much

1378
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:57,720
Speaker 1: for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball