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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to Work in Progress,

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Speaker 1: where I talked to people who inspire me about how

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Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think

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Speaker 1: they're still going. I'm so thrilled to have Alexei ash

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Speaker 1: Meyers on the podcast today. She is a badass attorney

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Speaker 1: with Sanctuary for Families, the co chair of the New

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Speaker 1: York State Anti Trafficking Coalition, and a founding member of

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Speaker 1: New Yorkers for the Equality Model, which you'll learn about

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Speaker 1: on this episode. Bills did decriminalized prostitution are popping up

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Speaker 1: across the country, but Alexei and other advocates believe that

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Speaker 1: there is a better solution to actually support the people

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Speaker 1: in the sex trade. This was a really interesting discussion

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Speaker 1: because there's a lot of misinformation about this topic. I

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Speaker 1: learned a lot from Alexey that I didn't know, and

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Speaker 1: it's certainly made me feel more invested in this debate

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Speaker 1: eight and how we move forward to better protect people

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Speaker 1: and make sure that we're not opening up loopholes for exploitation.

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Speaker 1: So I hope you'll share what you've heard after listening

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Speaker 1: and check out our Instagram page for more resources. Alexi,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. For coming on. I'm really excited

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Speaker 1: to have you on the pod. Thank you for having me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to jump into your work,

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Speaker 1: but I always like to start with people and kind

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Speaker 1: of rewind because I find that we're always having conversations

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Speaker 1: when someone's in the middle of a huge initiative or

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Speaker 1: or some great, big accomplishment, and I'm I'm always curious

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Speaker 1: how you got here. And I like to ask everyone

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Speaker 1: what you were like is a kid and give you

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Speaker 1: flashback to yourself around you know, eight or ten were

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Speaker 1: you were you a tiny social justice warrior at that

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Speaker 1: age already I was, so I'd say that at human

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Speaker 1: rights issues really come buy me. Honestly, my grandparents are

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Speaker 1: Holocaust survivors, so that was a topic that was in

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Speaker 1: my house from as early as I could talk. Um,

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Speaker 1: I always knew their story. I was always proud of

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Speaker 1: their story. They came and spoke in my classrooms. We

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Speaker 1: went and saw them speak. And so yeah, when I

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Speaker 1: was probably ten, I played Anne Frank or I read

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Speaker 1: An Frank passages at the opening of the and Frank

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Speaker 1: exhibit in Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is where I grew up.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, human rights abuses were just something that

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Speaker 1: I was always on my radar. I was also very argumentative,

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Speaker 1: and everyone always said they knew I would be a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: and so I I also, it's so funny. I'll go

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Speaker 1: back sometimes and find high school essays I wrote, or

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Speaker 1: like you know, personal essays for applications to things, and

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Speaker 1: I can't believe how true to myself I still am.

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Speaker 1: And it's almost embarrassing, like I'm just kind of a

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Speaker 1: cliche of myself. That's sort of me. Think that my

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Speaker 1: my dad many times a year likes to say to me,

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Speaker 1: I just can't believe you didn't become a lawyer. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I take that as a compliment, sir. I know,

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Speaker 1: I think people sometimes mean in a backwards compliment maybe,

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Speaker 1: But I think when you really can be researched and

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Speaker 1: and also passionate enough to defend whether or not the

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Speaker 1: defense is popular or the subject matter is fun, right,

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Speaker 1: is a great quality. Yeah, I think it's pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: What was growing up in Albuquerque? Like I asked, because

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Speaker 1: I god, maybe ten years ago I got to be

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Speaker 1: out there for five weeks. I was in Albuquerque and

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Speaker 1: working on a movie and it was amazing. But I

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Speaker 1: didn't really live there, and I'm just curious. I probably

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Speaker 1: didn't appreciate it as much as I should have, but

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Speaker 1: no one ever does when you're in it. I love

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Speaker 1: to visit there. There's no blue or sky or cleaner

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Speaker 1: air or more beautiful landscapes. But also it was really

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Speaker 1: culturally rich. I went to a high school that was

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Speaker 1: incredibly diverse, while also to this day being the best

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Speaker 1: education I got of all the schools I went to.

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Speaker 1: I wish my kids could go there. But I really

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Speaker 1: love New Mexico and I feel a deep sense of

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Speaker 1: connection to that culture. Yeah. It's spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time just marveling at that sky. Yeah, this guy is beautiful.

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Speaker 1: We grew up in the out in the middle of

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Speaker 1: nowhere between Santa Fe and Albuquerque, and so like weekend

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Speaker 1: activities were dirt biking and biking and looking for pottery

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Speaker 1: shards and you know, as kids do. That's so cool.

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Speaker 1: I've always been sort of I have that feeling of

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Speaker 1: romantic nostalgia. I guess you could say because Georgia O'Keeffe

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Speaker 1: visiting her property and visiting a museum in Santa Fe

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Speaker 1: and it's amazing. Oh my god, I just think like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: my sister got married there last year. Really, that's amazing. Yeah. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So when you were little, you know, you mentioned reading

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Speaker 1: and Frank's Diary. What what are the things were you

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Speaker 1: reading as a kid that you think may have shaped

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Speaker 1: this in you? They were probably all Holocaust books. It

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Speaker 1: was All Night and Number the Stars and all of

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Speaker 1: those and Nancy Drew, of course, Nancy Drew's a classic. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was always into really serious things as a kid.

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Speaker 1: My favorite show was Murphy Brown and all my parents

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Speaker 1: friends thought that that was weird, but I loved it too.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, wasn't it the best? She was? She

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Speaker 1: was and is my my icon of icons. But I

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Speaker 1: was also a nerd and went deep, Like we went

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Speaker 1: to Rome on a family trip and so then I

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Speaker 1: read The Agony and the Ecstasy. It also probably ten

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Speaker 1: years old, which was like my mom kept telling me,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to finish that, but yeah, I wanted to.

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Speaker 1: But when you're a good student, you started booking to

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Speaker 1: finish it. I totally get that. And when you were

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Speaker 1: little and diving into all of that subject matter and

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Speaker 1: you know, mostly serious with the side of Nancy Drew,

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Speaker 1: did you think about becoming a lawyer or did you

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Speaker 1: have other ideas of what you wanted to be when

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Speaker 1: you grew up. Um, No, I do think I thought

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Speaker 1: I would be a lawyer after like real childhood fantasies

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Speaker 1: of astronaut and firefighter and stuff. So you mentioned your family,

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Speaker 1: and when I was doing some research, I learned that

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Speaker 1: your mom is a social worker and an activist. And

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Speaker 1: I'm curious what growing up with a parent who works

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Speaker 1: in a space like that teaches you and what you

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Speaker 1: think you learned from her. Yeah, my mom is really incredible.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's because of her, the her, it's her

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Speaker 1: parents who were the Holocaust survivors, and it's and it

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Speaker 1: was through her lens and filter really that I learned

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Speaker 1: about it. So it was the way in which she

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Speaker 1: chose to pass that legacy on to her children and

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Speaker 1: the way in which she showed us what was important.

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Speaker 1: She also then started a nonprofit where she writes curriculum

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Speaker 1: to movies that teach cross cultural understanding and use his

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Speaker 1: film as a way to teach children and reach children

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Speaker 1: on so many different levels. So I watched that as

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Speaker 1: I grew up, and watched her start this from an

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Speaker 1: idea she had one day that she really turned into

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Speaker 1: something huge, and then it just doesn't quite fit in

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Speaker 1: in the same realm. But another thing that my family

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Speaker 1: did when when I was eight, as we adopted my

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Speaker 1: brother from Russia he was five, and we again I

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Speaker 1: went full in and learned everything I could about Russia

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Speaker 1: and Siberia where he was from, and wrote a whole

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Speaker 1: report on it. And and that at such a young

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Speaker 1: age just brought into my world to know that there

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Speaker 1: was so much more out there than what you just

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Speaker 1: would learn in a classroom. So my parents gave us

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Speaker 1: a really rich childhood in that sense. That's amazing. What

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Speaker 1: was it like, having eight years old having a sibling

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Speaker 1: show up who wasn't a baby, you know, he was

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Speaker 1: already five. It was actually really exciting. I didn't have

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Speaker 1: to deal with like, why is the baby crying? I

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Speaker 1: just got to have a play made immediately. I was

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Speaker 1: so proud of him. We went to the same school

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Speaker 1: and I would walk down the hall and check on

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Speaker 1: him every a couple of times a day. And he

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Speaker 1: spoke Russian and people would come to me and say, like,

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Speaker 1: Tolly is saying this in Russian? What does it mean?

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Speaker 1: And I would translate and I just it was fun.

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Speaker 1: It was immediately fun. He's the best. And now my sister,

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Speaker 1: brother and I all transplanted to New York and live

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Speaker 1: within two blocks of each other. No, so you guys

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Speaker 1: get to see each other all the time. Yeah, until

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Speaker 1: we are too overbearing and overwhelmed him and he disappears

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Speaker 1: and it's like, back off his big sisters get on

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Speaker 1: his nerves. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. My my cousin.

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Speaker 1: I grew up with my three cousins who are like

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Speaker 1: my siblings, and Jenna's the oldest, and there were times

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Speaker 1: where she'd look at me and the boys and be like,

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Speaker 1: get away from me, and we'd go, Okay, we've done it.

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Speaker 1: We've pushed over, We're going to the backyard. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was really really fun. So you you go through your

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Speaker 1: childhood in New Mexico and then you went west for

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Speaker 1: Occidental College, Right, that's so cool. I grew up in Pasadena,

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Speaker 1: was like Accidental. It's so great. We did We did

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Speaker 1: one huge production of a musical that I worked on

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Speaker 1: in high school and we got to do it at

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Speaker 1: the Ocidal Theater and it was the biggest deal. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I know, it's the set of so many movies too.

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Speaker 1: It's the most beautiful campus. It's so beautiful. How did

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Speaker 1: you just had you wanted to go there? There was

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Speaker 1: actually a weird pipeline between my high school and Oxy.

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Speaker 1: I think they were like thirteen people from my graduating

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Speaker 1: class going who went there, and both really small schools,

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Speaker 1: so it was kind of nice. And also you just

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Speaker 1: visit it and want to be there. Also, Obama went

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Speaker 1: there casual. You're pretty cool. Yeah, you know, like I

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Speaker 1: could do that. I got to talk to him about

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Speaker 1: that once. So cool. Yeah, And what did you study?

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Speaker 1: Their politics? And I thought I wanted to work in

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Speaker 1: local politics, So I went to the City Attorney's office

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Speaker 1: after graduating and worked there. But I was in the

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Speaker 1: family violence unit and learned about, you know the intersection

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Speaker 1: between domestic violence and family violence and child abuse. And

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Speaker 1: I was also doing a lot of work in l

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Speaker 1: a u s D and gang prevention through different programs

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Speaker 1: we created, and so that really then cemented that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to go to law school. What do you think

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Speaker 1: that was looking at, as you said, all the intersections

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Speaker 1: of violence and how it affects families and communities, what

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Speaker 1: do you feel like illuminated for you? I think seeing

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Speaker 1: people's vulnerabilities and and wanting to use whatever tools I

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Speaker 1: could to help change it. When I see the state

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Speaker 1: of things so many times and talk to people about

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Speaker 1: how depressed they are, and I at least feel like

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Speaker 1: I'm doing something. I don't know if I'm making a difference,

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Speaker 1: but I'm at least doing something, and in activity would

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Speaker 1: just feel too depressing. Yeah. The thing that motivates me

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Speaker 1: a lot is thinking, no one of us is going

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Speaker 1: to be able to fix it, but if we're living

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Speaker 1: in service to the solution, then we're doing something right. So,

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Speaker 1: while at Occidental, you were working in the city office. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and then after law school for a few years,

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Speaker 1: and then I went through law school. Can I ask

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Speaker 1: you a question before we get into law school? What

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Speaker 1: do you actually because I'm sure some people are listening

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Speaker 1: to you talk about what you were seeing, but I'm

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Speaker 1: curious if you can explain to listeners and honestly to

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Speaker 1: me as well, what you were doing when you were

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Speaker 1: working there. What what is your day in and day out?

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Speaker 1: So the unit I was in was actually really unique,

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Speaker 1: and it was a crime prevention unit, which out of

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Speaker 1: Prosecutor's office is amazing because so much of what prosecutors

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Speaker 1: do is after crime happens. So we worked with you

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Speaker 1: a l A u s D and with local precincts,

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Speaker 1: and we had different presentations. One was called no Secrets

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Speaker 1: and it was for children about how to prevent sexual abuse,

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Speaker 1: and that was with a retired l ap D officer

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Speaker 1: and it was a curriculum that we had written. And

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Speaker 1: another one was a truancy prevention program. So we went

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Speaker 1: in and really educated about how truancy at school down

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Speaker 1: the line leads to gang involvement and how to really

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Speaker 1: keep kids out of gangs. So that was largely my day,

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Speaker 1: going around to different schools, and then we would host

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Speaker 1: conferences to learn that other jurisdictions were doing and educate

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Speaker 1: them about our programs. You know, there were things that

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Speaker 1: as a non lawyer I couldn't do, Like, right, there's

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Speaker 1: something called a U visa that victims and survivors of

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Speaker 1: domestic violence can get if they show that they've complied

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Speaker 1: with law enforcement. And so I would help like with

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Speaker 1: the initial process of that, but couldn't actually write the

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Speaker 1: u VSA application. And what do they get when they

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Speaker 1: get a u visa? What does that mean? It's a

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Speaker 1: it's a visa that allows them to stay here. Okay, yeah, wow,

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Speaker 1: that's amazing. Yeah, and so was it realizing that there

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Speaker 1: were certain barriers to your work by more or I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do more? And so then wow did law

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Speaker 1: school happened? So I just went down the street from

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Speaker 1: where I from where I was working, where I was living,

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Speaker 1: and kind of plowed through law school in two years.

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Speaker 1: I spent a summer in the Hague studying at the

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Speaker 1: international criminal courts and all the tribunals and learning about

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Speaker 1: war crimes. And I really loved that and wanted sort

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Speaker 1: of a job in that area. But what really when

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Speaker 1: hearing about war crimes, it was always the women and

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Speaker 1: children's stories that really got to me, which somehow led

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Speaker 1: me to trafficking. And so then I interned at My

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Speaker 1: final internship was at the Smalley Mom Foundation, and everyone

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Speaker 1: else in my law school was so much more traditional.

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Speaker 1: They were at firms. I felt a little bit like

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Speaker 1: the impostor syndrome working at a non profit, but it

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Speaker 1: felt right and I and I didn't want to, you know,

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Speaker 1: push like a square hole and whatever the saying is,

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Speaker 1: I just didn't I didn't fit it a firm, it's

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Speaker 1: not I knew I didn't want to go that route.

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Speaker 1: So I really loved working at the Smalley Mom Foundation.

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Speaker 1: And when you're an intern, you do a lot of

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Speaker 1: research and a lot of reading. And what I was

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Speaker 1: learning about was how much trafficking actually occurs here and

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Speaker 1: that it was really it's really important to also to

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Speaker 1: work abroad, but that if while I was looking for

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Speaker 1: my next step in New York, there was so much

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Speaker 1: to be done right here and that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be part of that. I think it's so interesting that

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Speaker 1: we hear about these global issues, whether it's sex trafficking

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Speaker 1: or period poverty or inhibitors to education access, and we

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Speaker 1: assume they happen everywhere else, and then you start looking

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Speaker 1: at the numbers and you realize it's literally happening all

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Speaker 1: around us, and then we've probably seen it. And how

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Speaker 1: do you begin to help people make sense of that

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Speaker 1: through the work. How do you educate people about what's

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Speaker 1: happening in their community. Yeah, I think there's a lot

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Speaker 1: more awareness of human trafficking as a domestic issue now

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Speaker 1: than there was even five years ago. But I just,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I talk about it everywhere I can at

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Speaker 1: every I'm asked about it, so um, at any dinner party,

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Speaker 1: any social gathering, at social media, just talk about it

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Speaker 1: and spread the word. But also correct people's misconceptions that

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking happens in Southeast Asia and in Eastern Europe

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Speaker 1: and not here, and what what it means, because I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people think that sex trafficking means

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Speaker 1: you have to cross borders, you have to be kidnapped.

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Speaker 1: You know, it looks like the movie Taken, when in

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Speaker 1: reality it's so prevalent and domestic sex trafficking looks really

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Speaker 1: really different than that. Can you tell us what it

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Speaker 1: does look like? Well, there's there's different kinds. What I

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Speaker 1: saw in my work as a prosecutor of human trafficking

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Speaker 1: cases is that communities tend to who traffic their own communities.

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Speaker 1: So for American born exploiters and pimps, they traffic the

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Speaker 1: girls right out of their their high school, is out

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Speaker 1: of the corner store. They know them through their cousin

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Speaker 1: or through a friend, They meet them on social media,

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Speaker 1: and they prey upon them in different ways. They use

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Speaker 1: different techniques, but more common than than what you see

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Speaker 1: in movies. Is like the protector Romeo pimp who uses

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Speaker 1: seduction and and more subtle coursive tactics to exploit the

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Speaker 1: person that they are praying upon. And pimps really intentionally

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Speaker 1: recruit people when they're at their most vulnerable, when they're young,

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Speaker 1: when they're homeless, addicted, living in poverty. They primarily target

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Speaker 1: women and girls of color, people in the LGBTQ community,

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Speaker 1: youthan foster care. We work really closely with Covenant House

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Speaker 1: here in New York, and the director of the Human

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Speaker 1: Trafficking Initiative AIR talks about how pimps wait outside Covenant House.

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Speaker 1: They put ads out if you live at Covenant House

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Speaker 1: and want to make money, contact me, Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: So they really prey upon those vulnerabilities. And I think

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Speaker 1: that the point you're making about the sort of protector

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Speaker 1: or even romantic coercion is really interesting because we do

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Speaker 1: often see these relationships or or or these situations represented

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Speaker 1: in ways that are you know, hyper realized for entertainment,

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Speaker 1: and they're represented as though they're this, like you said,

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Speaker 1: someone's being kidnapped or abuse, and usually doesn't start that way,

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Speaker 1: you know, they start in these smaller sort of microaggressions

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Speaker 1: and micro actions of violence against women, and then they snowball,

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Speaker 1: and by the time a woman is has been trafficked

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Speaker 1: in is being abused, she's been in this system for

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Speaker 1: a really long time. And I'm curious, what would you

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Speaker 1: tell people are some of the ways that it begins,

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Speaker 1: because I don't think a lot of people understand how

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Speaker 1: it starts, how the actual exploitation starts. If there's an

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Speaker 1: example of someone whose story perhaps you've heard, that might

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Speaker 1: explain it. Sometimes it starts with with a real romantic

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Speaker 1: seduction and I'm your boyfriend and we're going to have

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Speaker 1: a great life together and we're gonna live in this apartment,

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Speaker 1: but we just need a little bit of money to

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Speaker 1: do it and help us out. And I'll only ask

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Speaker 1: you to do this once. And you're doing this for us,

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Speaker 1: and I love you and I'm so sorry you have

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Speaker 1: to do this, but I need you to. You know,

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Speaker 1: my guy is going to pick you up, and you

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Speaker 1: need to go with him and do what he says,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get money for it and you'll never have

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Speaker 1: to do it again. And then other ways it starts

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Speaker 1: is that they do prey on someone who's incredibly vulnerable

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Speaker 1: and who's in absolute survival mode and needs money to survive,

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Speaker 1: and this is the only way to get it. And

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Speaker 1: the common denominator in all of the cases of trafficking

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Speaker 1: is vulnerability. And one thing that I think really gets

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Speaker 1: ignored in this conversation is that you can be exploited

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Speaker 1: at any age. It can happen. An eighteenth birthday. Doesn't

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Speaker 1: change you from a victim to someone who's in it. Consensually,

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Speaker 1: what happens on an eighteenth birthday that that all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden makes you not vulnerable to exploitation, which that

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Speaker 1: sort of leads me to what I'm working on. Now,

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Speaker 1: should we go there? Okay, So there's a huge campaign

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Speaker 1: in New York, it's also happening in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: And it's coming up nationally to decriminalize the sex trade.

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Speaker 1: And the language on this issue is really misleading and

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Speaker 1: important to note because a lot of people are asked,

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Speaker 1: and this is coming up in the presidential campaign a

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Speaker 1: lot with candidates, are you do support decriminalization of the

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Speaker 1: sex trade? Now, your knee jerk reaction is yes, women

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Speaker 1: should never and I say women, but actually it's there

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Speaker 1: are boys in the sex trade and l g pt

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Speaker 1: Q women, but survivors and victims should never be arrested

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Speaker 1: for what they're doing. So reaction is to say, decriminalize

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Speaker 1: the sex rade. But what's really misleading is what that

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Speaker 1: actually means to decriminalize the sex rade, and that includes,

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Speaker 1: and what these bills include are legalizing or decriminalizing sex

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Speaker 1: buying and pimping. The bill in New York that was

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Speaker 1: introduced strips any penalties away from brothel keeping, from sex tourism,

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Speaker 1: and from pimping someone who's over eighteen years old. That

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Speaker 1: makes my stomach drop. And it's being pushed as progressive

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Speaker 1: and feminist and empowering, and there's a huge misinformation campaign

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Speaker 1: about what it what it means well, and I think

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Speaker 1: a huge just a huge error in portrayal and perception,

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Speaker 1: because yes, there are some people out there advocating. There

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Speaker 1: are some adults. There's a woman who I actually got

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Speaker 1: to speak with a couple of months ago, who is

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Speaker 1: a sex worker and who was like, this is my job,

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Speaker 1: and I choose this, and you know, she likes her life.

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Speaker 1: But she's a very rare person in an industry. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we were looking at stats and we were saying earlier

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Speaker 1: that it's so upsetting how hard it is to find

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Speaker 1: stats how underreported these issues are. But but one of

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Speaker 1: the statistics that we found is that of women in

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Speaker 1: the sex trade report being subjected to physical violence, including

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Speaker 1: being raped, shots, strangled, burned, beaten, stabbed, or punched. So

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Speaker 1: those are not women who should be punished. Nor should

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Speaker 1: the small percentage of women who are involved in the

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Speaker 1: sex trade, who are there by choice and who like

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Speaker 1: their life be punished. But people who do that to

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Speaker 1: of women, men who buy women and children, men who

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Speaker 1: sell women and children as though they are commodities, should

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Speaker 1: not escape legal punishment. How do we as a constituency

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Speaker 1: change that. How do we say, don't criminalize workers and victims,

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Speaker 1: but criminalized perpetrators and victimizers. What's our So, what everyone

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Speaker 1: in our movement, on both sides of the table agree on,

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Speaker 1: is that the women who are bought and sold in

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Speaker 1: the sex trade should never be criminalized. So right now,

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Speaker 1: in all fifty states, the legal framework is criminalization. The

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Speaker 1: people in prostitution are arrested, the sex buyers are arrested.

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Speaker 1: So we're moving to change that, and in practice, many

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Speaker 1: of the states have already enacted that. In Seattle, Washington,

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Speaker 1: women aren't the I keep saying women, but women aren't

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Speaker 1: arrested for prostitution. In New York, NYPD has really stopped

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Speaker 1: arresting the people in prostitution. So where we differ is

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Speaker 1: on the issue of sex buyers. And you just read

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Speaker 1: and on exploiters. But I'll get there. What you just

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Speaker 1: read that statistic about the violence that happens in the

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Speaker 1: sex trade. And again many people probably think that this

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Speaker 1: happens at the hands of exploiters. That is at the

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Speaker 1: hands of the sex buyers. The sex buyers inflict the

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Speaker 1: violence the sex buyers. I was at a hearing yesterday

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Speaker 1: in um d c and because there's a bill to

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Speaker 1: decriminalize the sex right there, and one advocate spoke about

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Speaker 1: a legal sex shop in Amsterdam where it's legal. Because

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Speaker 1: it's legal there, there's regulations, and one of the regulation

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Speaker 1: was that pillows need to be in the brothel rooms.

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Speaker 1: And the sex shop owner said, why would you put

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Speaker 1: pillows in there? That's a murder weapon. So it's just

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Speaker 1: really important to remember that the buyers, they're not clients,

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Speaker 1: they're not just harmlessly purchasing sex. They're buying access to

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Speaker 1: a woman's body, and once they have that access, they

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Speaker 1: report in that they feel that they have the right

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Speaker 1: to do whatever they want once they've paid, and they

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Speaker 1: fuel this industry. So if you strip away any penalties

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Speaker 1: for sex buying, if you normalize it, the it works

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Speaker 1: like any other you know, market, where the demand will

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Speaker 1: increase and the violence that the violence will increase, and

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Speaker 1: the supply will have to increase to meet that demand.

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Speaker 1: And that's where trafficking happens. There aren't enough people in

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Speaker 1: the sex trade consentually to meet that legalized demand, So

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Speaker 1: then who fills it? Again, our most marginalized members of

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Speaker 1: society are trafficked in to fill it, women and women

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Speaker 1: of color and lgbt Q women and exactly. And for

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Speaker 1: the more decriminalization and legalizing brothels, that leads to more brothels.

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Speaker 1: More brothels leads to more demand. Again, you have to

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Speaker 1: fill that supply. So it's just yeah, and it is

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Speaker 1: curious to me why we have this idea that there

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Speaker 1: are respectful the clients are respectful of these women, right.

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Speaker 1: You know, another point I heard yesterday at the hearing

430
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: from so many survivors. Buyers don't care and they don't know,

431
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: they don't know if you're in this consentually they don't

432
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: know if you're trafficked, would they check I DA s

433
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: is that? Do you have an idea that says I

434
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: want to be doing this? And so many survivors talked

435
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: about how when asked, and this goes back to your

436
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: your question about numbers and reporting, when people who are

437
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: under the control of a pimp or exploitter are asked,

438
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: are you doing this consensually, They're not going to tell

439
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: the truth. They're terrified for their lives. There have complete PTSD,

440
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: they're likely addicted to drugs to cope with the trauma

441
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: that they're dealing with, and so they're not going to

442
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: tell you the truth, and it might even be years

443
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: before they understand that reality. Well, so many people don't

444
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: get to process their trauma until they're out of a

445
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: traumatic situation because our brains are literally wired to shut

446
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: us down so that we can survive. And when you're

447
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: in survival mode, you're not exactly in your most psychologically

448
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: open and and self, you know, comprehensive state to discuss

449
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: what's happening to you. I think that's so strange that

450
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: we expect people to feel that way. And when you

451
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: think about even you know, if we get out of

452
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 1: the sex trade. When we talk about sexual violence, think

453
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: about how long it can take a girl. And you know,

454
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: the stat is that nearly one in four girls in

455
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: the US will be sexually assaulted or raped by the

456
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: time she's twenty two. Think about how long it takes

457
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: a girl to tell her parents if she ever tells,

458
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: when it's held against them. While you didn't report it,

459
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: why didn't you tell anyone that? The fact that that

460
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 1: goes to issues of credibility makes it incredibly hard. Yeah,

461
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 1: and so I just when I when I put it

462
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: under that lens, I can't imagine how a woman or

463
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: a person in this position, while to your point, under

464
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: the control of someone else who is exploiting their personhood,

465
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: is going to be like, hey, guys, guess what this

466
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,479
Speaker 1: is exactly what's happening to me. And this person might

467
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: help me for telling you, but obviously I'm gonna tell

468
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: you because you told me I should. That's insane. And really,

469
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: when you start to do your own research into this

470
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: issue and look online, and you'll see very vocal women

471
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: who say I want to be doing this. I'm a

472
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: sex worker, this is my choice, and you wonder where

473
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: are the voices of the survivors, But you really have

474
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: to consider they're dealing with so much trauma, and sometimes

475
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: it's hard enough to get out of bed and brush

476
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: your teeth, let alone go and talk in a soapbox

477
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: about your traumatic your most horrible traumatic experiences. We work

478
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: really hard not to re traumatize our survivors and and

479
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: put them out to speak about their experiences before they're ready.

480
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 1: So there's a few survivors who we work with who

481
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: have done so much work to get to a place

482
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: where they can talk about it, and even for them,

483
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: it's it's hard. After a day like yesterday, it's triggering,

484
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: and you're being spoken down to by white men council

485
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: members who are trying to decide that your body should

486
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: be for sale, and it's really hard to sit in

487
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: that room and not actually see like, this is white

488
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: privilege at its worst. This is this isn't protecting women

489
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: of color and girls of color. This is protecting white

490
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: men who want to buy them this law, and it's

491
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: protecting Epstein and it's disgusting. That's so awful. Yeah, in

492
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,479
Speaker 1: looking at your work, one of the things that you

493
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: talk about being an alternative to this is the equality model.

494
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if you can just explain to people

495
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: what that is, because I do think it's really helpful

496
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: to not only educate listeners on signs and and facts

497
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: and the problem, but to give people the verbage to

498
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: then go out and advocate and have these conversations in

499
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: their own community, because maybe they'll hear someone say we

500
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: should decriminalize, you know, the sex trade, and it's like, well,

501
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: actually not all of it, so exactly we have a solution.

502
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's an alternative to full decriminalization and to

503
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: the status quo, and that's called the equality model. It's

504
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: also known as the Nordic model. It was pioneered in

505
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: Sweden and since adopted by seven other countries, including Canada, France, Israel, Ireland.

506
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: South Africa is considering it right now, Spain is considering it,

507
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: and nowhere in the United States has officially passed it.

508
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: Some already operate Some states already operate in that under

509
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: the equality model. But what at first and foremost does

510
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: is decriminalize the sex trade for people in prostitution. So

511
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: another thing you can call it is partial decriminalization, because,

512
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: like I said, people who are bought and sold in

513
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: the sex trade should never be arrested for their being

514
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: victims or being there by choice. However you proceed or

515
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: however you've gotten into the sex trade. It should be decriminalized.

516
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,239
Speaker 1: Though where it differs from the fall decriminalization model is

517
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: that there's a very heavy focus on demand. Like I said,

518
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: the buyers are the economic engine of this industry. If

519
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: you deter buyers, you can shrink the industry. This is

520
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: a multibillion dollar industry. I read it's a hundred and

521
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: fifty billion dollars a year globally. But we know about yes,

522
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: and so if you think about that, yeah, and then

523
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: when you do the math and you think about that

524
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: at maybe a hundred dollars, which is on the high

525
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: end per sex act, how many rapes that is per

526
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: year globally, and versus the amount of prosecutions that happened,

527
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: maybe a handful of those people get prosecuted buyers and exploiters.

528
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: So then the equality model really shifts the stigma away

529
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: from the people who are in prostitution to the sex buyers.

530
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: There's a huge public awareness campaign about the harms of

531
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: buying sex, that it's not a victimless crime, that that

532
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: we just have a zero tolerance policy for buying sex.

533
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: And we've already started that conversation with the Me too

534
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: movement and saying no, men can't use their positions of

535
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: power and privilege and to course, you know women below them,

536
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: So then why would we legalize that? But I digress.

537
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: So then the third prong of the equality model is

538
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: to provide really robust services to the women who are leaving,

539
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: who choose to leave the sex trade. Those services include legal, medical, clinical, economic, empowerment, housing,

540
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: and we're already doing that in New York. We have

541
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: working we've been working with City Council and we have

542
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: something called the empower Clinic, and it's a place where

543
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: women can seek all of these services. And it's an

544
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 1: alternative because what happens now is women aren't there are

545
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: still arrested for prostitution, but they are, rather than prosecuted,

546
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: sent through human trafficking intervention courts, and that's a way

547
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,719
Speaker 1: to connect them with services. This takes law enforcement out

548
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: of it completely, so that if someone chooses to exit

549
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: the sex trade or to seek these services, it really

550
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: is their choice. That's amazing. Yeah, So we fully support

551
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: the equality model. We're writing our legislation right now, we

552
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: have incredible sponsors in the Assembly and the Senate and

553
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: who really really understand that decriminalizing the sex trade would

554
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: be in illibly dangerous path for the most marginalized women

555
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: in our society, and that this is a way to

556
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: create equality. That's so cool. Thank you so much for

557
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: explaining it. It's also so special. I'm having this moment

558
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: watching you talk about it. As soon as you got

559
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: into speaking about what's happening in New York and the

560
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: Empowerment Clinic and the bill, You're right like you are,

561
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: your whole face lit up and you have this like beatings.

562
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: But I wish that people listening could see you, because

563
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: I think it's such a wonderful thing when you get

564
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: to see someone just be lit up from within because

565
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: they're doing what they're called to do or to do,

566
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: or however you want to say it. And it's it's

567
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: awesome that in in such a serious sort of arena

568
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: where the subject matter is heavy and has real consequences,

569
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: you find like your ultimate joy in your advocacy, And

570
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: I can see it on your face, and it's it's

571
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: just cool. I get excited. I'm just like you're changing

572
00:32:50,840 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: the world. Thank you when we're talking about where the

573
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: equality model has been instituted, talk to me about Amsterdam.

574
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: Does it Does it actually work there? So Amsterdam is

575
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: a regime that's where prostitution is legalized. It's fully fully decriminalized.

576
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: Well there's there's a small distinction. Regimes that fully decriminalized

577
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: strip all penalties away from the crimes and it's sort

578
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: of a free for all. So New Zealand has decriminalized

579
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: the industry, and that's what the proposing in New York.

580
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: In Germany and in Amsterdam, it's legalized. So brothels are legal,

581
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: there are ordinances about them, there are rules, you know,

582
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: in those rules, like I gave the pillow example, what's

583
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: happened in Amsterdam and in Germany is that the legalized

584
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: sex trades end up being run by organized crime. So

585
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: the purported uh, you know, health care benefits that people

586
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: in the sex trade get, or or the empowerment or

587
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: the autonomy that the people in the sex trades supposedly get,

588
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: actually isn't a reality. Over ninety son of the people

589
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: who fill legalized brothels in Germany are trafficked from Eastern

590
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: Europe and Western Africa. They're not legal they're not seeking

591
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: those benefits. Something that happened in Amsterdam is that they've

592
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: started to roll back their red light districts and close

593
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: them because the Mayor of Amsterdam has said that you

594
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: actually can't create a legal, safe sex straight It's just

595
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: not possible. There are pimps who work, you know, as

596
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: security guards, who stand outside the legal brothels to keep

597
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: the women supposedly safe. But what happens when people go

598
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: around to check on conditions, like a welfare checked by

599
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: someone from the state, right, the women aren't fully able

600
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: to They're not able to tell the truth. They can't

601
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: say no, the conditions are horrible, and no one being

602
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: exploited because their pimp is standing there is their security guard.

603
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: And you can talk all all you want about anecdotes,

604
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: but when you look at the data of those countries

605
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: about the increase in violence increase and abuse increase and

606
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: organized crime, it speaks for itself. So in a way,

607
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: our desire to think that we could would create policies

608
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: that would create a legal and safe sex trade is

609
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: disproven by the data. Is what you're saying exactly, Like,

610
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: we have this idea that if we just legalize it,

611
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: people can get tested and people will be protected and

612
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: people won't be burned or beaten or strangled or shot

613
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: by the people who are purchasing access to their bodies

614
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: for sex. But the data shows otherwise in the countries

615
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: that have tried. Last year, in Germany, the owners of

616
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: one of the biggest legal brothels, like the brothel you

617
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: read about that you hear about in in any conversation

618
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: about this was arrested for trafficking. Wow, and it's a

619
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: it's legal, legal brothel. And what happens when brothels are legal?

620
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: And what what would happen in New York? Are these

621
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: mega brothels are erected, so in Germany they're they're like

622
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: seven story tall mega brothels with a different fetish on

623
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: every floor. If you want sex with a pregnant woman,

624
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: if you want to take all your friends and have

625
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: a gang bang, and there are there are like Yelp

626
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: reviews of these And on opening weekend of this one

627
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: mega brothel in Germany, seven hundred men lined up around

628
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: the block to go into the brothel and wrote reviews afterwards,

629
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: like by the end of the day, the women retired,

630
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,919
Speaker 1: they felt used up and complained wanted their money back,

631
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: wanted their money back because these women had been quote

632
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: used up, yeah, and didn't seem into it. Yeah. Wow.

633
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: And then we come to find out that a lot

634
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 1: of those women were actually trafficked, right. And then we

635
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: were we were talking and you said something to me

636
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: that was so disturbing about New Zealand. So in New Zealand,

637
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: where it's decriminalized, law enforcement don't really have any grounds

638
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: to to go in and regulated at all because it's

639
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: not regulated, it's decriminalized. So yesterday again at the hearing,

640
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: I heard someone tell a story about child in New

641
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: Zealand being raped and reporting to law enforcement, and law

642
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: enforcement have a really hands off approach, you know, it's

643
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: it's not our you know, we can't do anything. It's

644
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: there's no regulations. Who says that that can't happen. And

645
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: so crime and violence and abuse against people in the

646
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: sex rade there goes really on prosecuted. That's something that

647
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: really upsets me that we hear a lot, and I

648
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: don't understand how we don't have harder lines with children,

649
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: especially like when when Centuria Brown's case sort of gained

650
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: all of this public awareness and they were speaking about

651
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: her and they were saying, well, a sixteen year old prostitute,

652
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: and it's like a sixteen year old can't be a prostitute.

653
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: Sixteen year old is a child who is a victim

654
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: of sex trafficking, who's being raped. She's a child. And

655
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: to your point, nothing changes at eighteen. A victim is

656
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: a victim. Um. But it's it's a strange. There's no

657
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: child process. There's no such thing as child prostitution. That

658
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: is not a thing. It is a term we should

659
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: never ever ever use. And and by the way, the

660
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: legal definition is that if you're under eighteen year per

661
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: se victim of trafficking. The example you give about New

662
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: Zealand is so crazy to me because the idea that

663
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: law enforcement would say, well, sex acts are all decriminalized here,

664
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: and who's to say that that wasn't part when they're

665
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: paid for right, when there's a when it's a commercial

666
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: sexual So the idea that someone paid for something and

667
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: raped a child, it was something they felt like they

668
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 1: couldn't touch because of the deep and and then and

669
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 1: I mean that's not to say that they don't have

670
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: in there. I actually I'm not quite sure what age,

671
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: but that New Zealand cuts it off, but that it's

672
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: not technically legal to purchase a child there, but just

673
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 1: law enforcements ability to really regulate it is is compromised, right,

674
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: and it's and it's their inability to act because they

675
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: don't know where the line is driving that is dangerous

676
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: in real time. I think people forget that it doesn't

677
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 1: matter if there's legislation if the legislation can't be practically

678
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: enacted in real time, and that New Zealand story feels

679
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: like a perfect example of that. What do you think

680
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: needs to happen for the equality model to exist here?

681
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: Because you know, obviously you're doing incredible advocacy work and

682
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: there are attorneys all across the US trying to, you know,

683
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 1: help this become law here. But what can the rest

684
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: of us do to support your work and to and

685
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: to help, you know, kind of climber for this, I

686
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: think spread the word educated. There's a third alternative, and

687
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: that when you read an article in teen Vogue that

688
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: says sex work is work, and question it and push

689
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: back on teen Vogue who wrote an incredibly distasteful, horrible

690
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: article glamorizing the sex trade, and you know, take to

691
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: social media and convince millennials that it's not empowering to

692
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: let men buy access to your body, and that when

693
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: there's a price tag on one woman, there's a price

694
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 1: tag on all women. And I think that's such an

695
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,959
Speaker 1: interesting thing, because to your point, there are people who

696
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: find their person empowerment in all sorts of ways. There's

697
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: all sorts of avenues, there's all sorts of choice. But

698
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: as you're saying that, I am realizing. You know, I

699
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: mentioned to you and again it's I'm not liberty to

700
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 1: tell someone else's story, But I sat down with someone

701
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: who explained how her work in the sex trade empowered

702
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: her and changed her life. And she's no longer in it,

703
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: but it was a really interesting conversation, and so in

704
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: this moment, I'm going, oh, right, it's so important to

705
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: qualify in in the math. You know, yeah, there could

706
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 1: be this story to tell, but but it is globally

707
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: an anomaly, and that doesn't shame her at all. But

708
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: but I think it's a really important distinction to draw

709
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: that there are quite literally, you know, they say that

710
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: there are more slaves on earth today than their were

711
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 1: during the slave trade, and a huge percentage of those

712
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: people who are enslaved or enslaved for sex work, and

713
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: and the idea that there are tens of millions, potentially

714
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of people who are being forced to

715
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: do this, who are being raped, and who are being abused,

716
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: and who are being trafficked. It's like we have to

717
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: remember that we can't simply celebrate one person's success and

718
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: eradicate everyone else's story in any in any industry, you know,

719
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: but this in particularly at this issue. What what often

720
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: ends up happening is to look at people, look at

721
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: it on a really individual basis, and um, you have

722
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: to look at it as the greater good of society

723
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: and as the whole what what do we want for

724
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 1: our country and for our future? And for the girls

725
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: were raising and the boys were raising. And you linked

726
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: it to the slave trade, and we very deliberately use

727
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: the term sex trade to make that link, because it

728
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: would be going back in time to enslaving people to

729
00:41:54,760 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: to legalize buying people. And you said something earlier two

730
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: that really struck a chord in me that these buyers

731
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: of women and the men who are in the sex

732
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: trade really look at those people as property, They look

733
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: at them as a thing they can do what they

734
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: want with and they believe that when money has exchanged hands,

735
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: they have carte blanche to do whatever they want. And

736
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: it's odd that because of the completely not odd, it's

737
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: traumatizing actually because of the completely immediate and transactional nature

738
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: of the experience that these buyers have with sex workers,

739
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 1: with with people in the sex trade, is that they're

740
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: not humanized at all. But they're very human, but they're

741
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: being treated like a twisted doll of some sort. You know,

742
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: it's like, I can do whatever I want with you,

743
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: I can take it as far as I want with you.

744
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: When I leave, I never have to think about you again.

745
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: And you know, it fuels all of that. Pornography so dangerous,

746
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: and kids are being exposed to pornography and it's so violent,

747
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: and it's fueling all of this. I'm curious because of

748
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: the problem of porn and you know, all the good

749
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: researchers are talking about how porn is like the downfall

750
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: of relationships of sexual intimacy. Um, it's causing increases of

751
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: violence and trauma and all of these things. How do

752
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: you see the Internet play into the sex trade? Because

753
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 1: I think about pornography and I think about I remember

754
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 1: the story about back page being shut down and all,

755
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: how does all of this work? It just increases access.

756
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: A number of years ago, if you wanted to buy

757
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: sexual access to a person, you would have to go

758
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: down to it what we call a track, a ceed

759
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: part of town and do it in person. And so

760
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: that was a barrier to some people. But with the

761
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: proliferation of the Internet, sex trafficking increased since back Page

762
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: from my backpage started until it was shut down last year,

763
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: And so there are studies done that. For example, in Seattle,

764
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: there was a study that the highest time of day

765
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 1: that men purchase sex was at two pm. Get back

766
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: from lunch break, go to their desk, sit down and

767
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: go online and do that. So just the increased access

768
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: to to purchasing sex again led to an increase it

769
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 1: a huge increase in demand, and that demand um gets

770
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: as men get bored of of just purchasing someone their

771
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: age for sex um then they want someone younger and

772
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: younger and younger. And you know, most most sex buyers

773
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: are employed, most are partnered. It's really anyone. And when

774
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 1: the person who's sitting next to you in a cubicle

775
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: can go online and buy a woman for sex. How

776
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: can he then go sit next to you in a

777
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: conference room and treat you as an equal or see

778
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 1: you as an equal? We really need to shift the

779
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: whole conversation to sex buyers and what happens if if

780
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: a man gets back from lunch and sits down at

781
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: his desk at two pm and buys sexual access to

782
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: another human being? When it? When does that happen? So? Yeah,

783
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: you order a girlfriend, Yeah, you make your after work plans?

784
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah. And I think that study, if

785
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, was primarily men in the tech businesses. Wow. Yeah.

786
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: And for people listening may not know, can you can

787
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: you run us through what Backpage was and how that worked. Yeah?

788
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: So Backpage was like a Craigslist online platform that had

789
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: a huge adult services section. Before they shut down, they

790
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: were making over a hundred and fifty million dollars a

791
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: year off their adult services section. And there was a

792
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: really outdated law called the Communications Decency Act that held

793
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: websites gave them immunity from any accountability if a third

794
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 1: party posted on their site. So because Backpage said they

795
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: weren't authoring the ads, they were immune to any prosecution

796
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: under this statute. We spent a few years lobbying hard

797
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: to close that loophole, and it passed, and it's an

798
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: incredible piece of legislation that very narrowly amends the Communications

799
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: Seasons the Act so that websites who knowingly facilitate human

800
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: trafficking can be held accountable. So this doesn't, you know,

801
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: affect if people who call themselves sex workers want to

802
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: go online and say, like, don't go on a date

803
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: with this guy, he's dangerous, it doesn't affect that that's

804
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: not knowingly facilitating human trafficking. However, when you google the legislation,

805
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: which is called Fosta Sessa there's all you get a

806
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: huge amount of negative information about it. You hear that

807
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: it drove prostitution back onto the streets too and made

808
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: it more dangerous. But what really happened is that it

809
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: shut down an entire marketplace where men could anonymously go

810
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: online and buy people for sex, most often children. There

811
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: was no way, there's no way to screen how old

812
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: someone is on back Page. You just put eighteen and

813
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 1: and their eighteen man. So um. Since Backpage closed, there's

814
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: been within the first seventy two hours, there was a

815
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 1: reduction in trafficking on that. So that's something that people

816
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: need to be including in these articles. And and but

817
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: it dawned on me when you said that the internet

818
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: took the barrier away that people used to have to

819
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 1: go somewhere and to actually physically switch out a person.

820
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: You can't watch someone via an internet exchange. But back

821
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: pushing sex which sex trade back onto the streets means

822
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: people can be surveilled, they can be followed, law enforcement

823
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: can actually crack down on this, hopefully rescue these sex

824
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: workers and criminalize these these john's and these pimps. And

825
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 1: for people who are in the sex trade who say

826
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 1: that the Internet gave them like a layer of safety,

827
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: to your exact point, how you can't see who's on

828
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: the other end of the computer. You don't know until

829
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:59,479
Speaker 1: that person shows up, opens your door, comes inside. If

830
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: they're going to be the next person that beats you

831
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: or suffocates you with a pillow, or sodomizes you, or

832
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: any number of horrific, dangerous acts. You don't know that

833
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: from the internet. How does the internet at a layer

834
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: of safety? Yeah, that's an argument that you often hear

835
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,720
Speaker 1: um about why Foster Sista made made it most so dangerous. Wow,

836
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: But you know, tech was really against it at first,

837
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: free speech and all that, but we we have to

838
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: do the work. We have to do something to protect

839
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: vulnerable people, and and it we legislate for the many,

840
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: not the few, you know, to your point of the

841
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: really individual stories, Honor them, hear them, respect them. But

842
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: we legislate for the many and for those for the

843
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: last girl, as one of our advocates says, you know,

844
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: those who are most marginalized, most needed. As we talk

845
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: about the reporting on it, because you do talk about

846
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: the fact that there's not a lot of statistics, and

847
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: also that the stories around the reality of these policies

848
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: can get very conflated and whatnot. How do we get

849
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: better numbers and reporting? How do you how do you

850
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: think we get to that? Do you think we need that?

851
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if we need it. I think it

852
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 1: helps people to mobilize to hear numbers, and and people

853
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: often want to know, like, really, what percentage of the

854
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: sex rade people in the sex rade are consentual and

855
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: not consensual and and we are sort of obsessed with numbers.

856
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: It doesn't bother me that I don't know exactly, because

857
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: I understand why it's so hard to like so much

858
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: sexual violence. It's it's under reported, you know, there are

859
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: barriers to reporting. And then it's so hard to quantify

860
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: if you were trafficked at thirteen out of your foster

861
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: home or out of a shelter, and and you it's

862
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: the only life you know, and you don't go to

863
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: high school, and you and so you don't have an education,

864
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 1: and you don't have any earning potential. And now you're

865
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: twenty two and you've already been through hell and back

866
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: and the only life you know as prostitution and you

867
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: are without a pimp. Does that mean you're consensually in

868
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: the sex trade? Are you there by choice? So how

869
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,240
Speaker 1: can you even quantify that? That's a really good point,

870
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: And all of it makes me just want to ask you.

871
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: I mean, you are choosing to serve people in a

872
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: very hard space. This is emotionally taxing work that you're doing,

873
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: and I imagine there are days that are really got wrenching.

874
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: And how do you how do you do it? How

875
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: do you do your job and and also make space

876
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,720
Speaker 1: for yourself and for joy and you know, for your kids,

877
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: And what's the tactic or what are the tactics that

878
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: you have to sort of employ to do that. I

879
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: never don't want to go to work. I love my job.

880
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,240
Speaker 1: I love the people I work with on both sides.

881
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: I love my colleagues who are also little social justice

882
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: warriors and advocates, and they inspire me. And I wish

883
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: you could talk to all of them, because there are

884
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,919
Speaker 1: a thousand times better on the subject than I am.

885
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: And and I love the clients that we work with

886
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: and the survivors, and they're inspiring. If, I mean, how

887
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: can I ever complain about anything in my life? If

888
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: if they're getting out of bed at five am and

889
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: getting on a bus to d C to go testify

890
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: against a bill that they just know will affect their

891
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters across the country. God, they're so inspiring.

892
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 1: And then I come home to two amazing kids who

893
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: make me happier than anything. So they're one and a

894
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: half and three and a half. Oh, it's so fun.

895
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: One of my best friends is a one and a

896
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: half year old baby. It's a really fun stage. She's delicious.

897
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: Community brings a lot of relief and a lot of joy.

898
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: I think in any sort of arena that's tougher, intense,

899
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: or grueling, so I imagine your community is one of

900
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: the answers to this next question. But I'm curious also,

901
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: what makes you feel hopeful I But yeah, I think

902
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: it's sort of the same answer. The people that I

903
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: work with, and we'll we'll go around and we'll meet

904
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: with legislators and we'll meet with community members and you know,

905
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: we'll just educate people and sometimes we'll get pushed back,

906
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: and then sometimes we'll have a meeting that just gives

907
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: you so much hope some some politician who's a visionary

908
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: who you just so implicitly trust is going to lead

909
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 1: us in the right direction, And that gives me hope.

910
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: And seeing I mean, in reaction to everything that's happened

911
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: this year, seeing the young people be active in a

912
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 1: way that I've never seen, and how they just take

913
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: they use their voices and they take to the streets

914
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: and their marches and their social media and using all

915
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: their platforms in a way but I don't think we've

916
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: ever seen so that gives me hope. Yeah, they're pretty

917
00:52:52,800 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 1: badass on all subjects. Really great, it's really excited this one. Well,

918
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: but again, I think to your point, it's about you know,

919
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,800
Speaker 1: who's getting to tell the story, and yeah, great to

920
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: to say as a bunch of feminists to to someone

921
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 1: who is in sort of a space that they say, like,

922
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: I love this and this was my choice and this

923
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,919
Speaker 1: is how it works for me. Like more power to you.

924
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: But tens of millions of people don't have that luxury,

925
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: and we have to fight for them. It's wrong not

926
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: to because it's because it's working just for one person.

927
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 1: And to your point, the excellent version of this kind

928
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: of legislation, being the equality model, wouldn't criminalize that person

929
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: who's living her best life anyway, but it would protect

930
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: tens of millions or potentially hundreds of millions of people

931
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,240
Speaker 1: who are not. And that's got to be the point. Well,

932
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: my last question for you is one that I like

933
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: to ask everybody. The title of the podcast is called

934
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: work in progress, and I'm curious what in your life

935
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: comes to mind as a work in progress for you

936
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: right now? I think all of it. Children certainly are

937
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: um marriages, and and my work is I think right now,

938
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: I'm so have my head in this drafting of the

939
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: equality model, and what do we want to go and

940
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 1: do it? And how do we defeat the other bills?

941
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 1: And how do we educate people. And then I took

942
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: a step back yesterday and said to one of my colleagues, like,

943
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,240
Speaker 1: this could be a five to ten year battle. This isn't.

944
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: This isn't. I need a reminder. This isn't happening this year.

945
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: So that's definitely a work in progress. You know, I

946
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: have the amazing privilege to raise two boys and to

947
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: figure out how I want to teach them respect and

948
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: and how to be interested and smart and curious children.

949
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: And oh, it's all a work in prodcrests. Yeah, thank you.

950
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: All that super cool. Yeah, except my apartment it feels done.

951
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: Know your apartment is done, but you got you got

952
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: an inside lab. Yeah. Fun fact. Alexei's sister happens to

953
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: be one of the great well half of one of

954
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: the great design duos in America, potentially the world. I

955
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: don't know, but yeah, I like I found girl follow

956
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 1: her on Instagram and the first time she replied to me,

957
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I think you're so amazing. Okay, anyway,

958
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: I've seen everything you've ever done. Okay, bye. Now I

959
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: have to tell her she has to listen to the

960
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: whole podcast just to get her. Yeah, we'll be like

961
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: and just a little plug and yeah, yeah you can follow.

962
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: You can follow their well, the duo Ashley Androw on

963
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: Instagram and I repost a lot of their work on

964
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: my little like design feed. So anyway, yeah, just a

965
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,439
Speaker 1: moment I think I'm turning red. It's fine. I still

966
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: love that cool And you can follow No Buyer, No

967
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 1: Pimp and why Like New York to learn more about

968
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: this issue. Thank you for bringing attention to this, like

969
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 1: I said, just talking about it, teaching people that there's

970
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: a third alternative. It's really important because I think a

971
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: lot of people instinctively know that criminalizing people in prostitution

972
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: isn't what they want. But I think once they learned

973
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: that that decrome also means pimps and buyers and brothels

974
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: and sex tourism and the likes, there's a third way. Yeah,

975
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 1: thank you, Yeah, thank you, because it really is important

976
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: for people to have access to the expertise. There's so

977
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 1: much information out there, Like you said, you google things

978
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: and you get you get reviews that may be completely

979
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: inaccurate to the way that they're going to affect the

980
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: public or public policy. And so for you to open

981
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: up your home and your time to really help people

982
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 1: who are not lawyers in this arena get into your

983
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:49,800
Speaker 1: brain is a gift, So thank you, thank you. Hey guys.

984
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: We wanted to include a follow up to the conversation

985
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: that I had with Alexei with a panel that she

986
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 1: recently moderated on the link between sex trafficking and prostitution

987
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: and why full decriminalization, in her opinion, is not the

988
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 1: answer to protect people who do sex work. It's really powerful,

989
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:14,240
Speaker 1: so I hope you'll continue listening. There's a movement again

990
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: amongst some progressive liberals to decriminalize the sex trade. This

991
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: movement tells the ideology that sex work is work, that

992
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: prostitution is a choice, that it's empowering. Uh. They even

993
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: go so far as to say that legalizing the sex

994
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: trade would have no effect on human trafficking. We're not.

995
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: For my work as UM a prosecutor of human trafficking

996
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: cases and my privilege to work among these incredibly brilliant,

997
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: brave warriors, I might also um subscribe to that ideology,

998
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: but instead I know that it's not empowering, that this

999
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: kind of legislation would be regressive, that sex buyers fuel

1000
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: the industry and create the demand that there's a historical

1001
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: acceptance of violence against women of color who are bought

1002
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: and sold, and that the sex trade is an inherently

1003
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: predatory industry that praise and vulnerabilities. People among both sides

1004
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: of the divide agree that no one in prostitution should

1005
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 1: be criminalized. Um. But where we differ is in how

1006
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: to provide meaningful services to those people to help them

1007
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: exit prostitution, and um, how to recommend policy to around

1008
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 1: sex buyers and pimps. So um. Without further ado, I

1009
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: am thrilled in honor to introduce you to these leaders

1010
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: who can help us explore these themes even further. So

1011
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: I want to start and ask you each to introduce yourselves.

1012
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: Who you are, what you do, and how you got there. Um.

1013
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 1: My name is Yasmin Vafa. I am the co founder

1014
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: and executive director of Rights for Girls, which is a

1015
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 1: human rights organization based in Washington, d C. Dedicated to

1016
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: ending gender based violence against young women and girls in

1017
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: the United States. And how I come to this work

1018
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 1: is as an Iranian American woman who immigrated to this

1019
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: country with my family in the eighties during the Iran

1020
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: I Rock War. Uh. And so I've always had an

1021
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: eight um understanding of this struggle for women's rights and

1022
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: girls rights coming from the Middle East, but it wasn't

1023
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: until my law school years where I realized the extent

1024
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: to which the United States detegrates the rights of young

1025
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: women and girls, and so I became very passionate about

1026
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: working to address those issues here in the United States UM,

1027
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: which led to the founding of Rights for Girls. As

1028
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: an advocate, I became very frustrated in navigating a number

1029
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: of different advocacy spaces where girls lives were really invisible,

1030
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: whether it was in the criminal justice or juvenile justice realm,

1031
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: in the domestic violence sexual assault realm, or even in

1032
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 1: the anti trafficking realm, girls and particularly marginalized girls of

1033
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: color were really invisible. And so we started Rights for

1034
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: Girls UM to really center the voices and the needs

1035
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 1: of our most marginalized girls. And so that's how I

1036
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: come to this work. Hi everyone, UM, my name is

1037
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 1: Melanie Thompson. I am a survivor of human trafficking UM.

1038
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: I was trafficked here in New York City when I

1039
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: was twelve years old and then later arrested UM. And

1040
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: I got into this work because upon my arrest I

1041
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 1: was sent to a juvenile detention of state, and there

1042
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,479
Speaker 1: was a famous New York Times editor who came to

1043
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: interview the staff of that facility. UM, and the staff

1044
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: of that facility essentially introduced that editor to myself to

1045
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 1: do an interview. And then I was introduced to the

1046
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: world of advocacy UM and I never stopped since then.

1047
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: I realized that this my voice was not only powerful

1048
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 1: and necessary, UM, but definitely one that could serve as

1049
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: a voice for the voiceless. As I like to say, so, UM,

1050
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: I'm here and you're gonna good singing to fight the fight. Hello,

1051
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: my name is Anne Mathieson. I'm the lead program specialist

1052
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: in the Justice and Empowerment for Teens in Initiative out

1053
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: Saying Try for Families. It's a clinical program providing therapy

1054
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 1: services to young adult survivors of the commercial sex industry.

1055
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 1: I started UM in this work over a decade ago

1056
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: in Seattle. I met a number of survivors in Seattle.

1057
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: I had already had a lot of concerns about this

1058
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: issue because I had seen friends of mine pulled into

1059
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: the industry and severely hurt by the industry. UM. So,

1060
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 1: while I was living in Seattle. I met advocates survivors

1061
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: who were in the process of creating a new nonprofit,

1062
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: the Organization for Prostitution Survivors. So I worked with them

1063
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: to found that nonprofit and worked there for for a

1064
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: number of years, and then I traveled to Sweden UM

1065
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: to complete a full Bright fellowship. I was researching global

1066
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: prostitution policy and specifically looking at the equality model in

1067
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: Sweden and comparing it to other models. My name is

1068
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: Cristian Ardo. I'm Mexican imm iran, a member of the

1069
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: LBT community, and I'm a survivor of international domestic sex

1070
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: on labor traffic UM. Actually, I start to a bocate

1071
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: this year and there reson is because I need to

1072
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: break the stigma about certain things. The first is that

1073
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: all the people in prostitution are thereby choice. That's not true.

1074
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: The second is that trafficking is only happening in kids

1075
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: and women. That's not true. I'm a male and I

1076
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 1: was traffic as an adult. And the third thing is

1077
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 1: that trafficking is happening here and it's trafficing is happening

1078
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 1: in our communities. Good evening, everyone. My name is Laura Ramirez.

1079
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 1: I'm the program coordinator for the Coalition Against Trafficking in

1080
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: Women UH, the first international nonprofit organization to fight commercial

1081
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: sexual exploitation UM. I'm also a core organizer with a

1082
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 1: firm New York, which is a transnational feminist organization that

1083
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 1: does grassroots advocacy UM towards genuine transnational feminist liberation. The

1084
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: word transnational means that no matter where you are in

1085
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: the world, your advocacy cannot ignore or forget the experiences

1086
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: of our sisters back home. And that's exactly what I'm

1087
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: doing here in this work and in all of my

1088
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: work for the rest of my life, which is understanding

1089
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: that we are not alone in this world, and that

1090
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: everything we do, especially here in the United States, the

1091
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 1: most privileged country in the world, affects women and girls

1092
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: all over the world. Thank you, so yes man. The

1093
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: topic of sex trafficking and the sex trade is in

1094
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 1: the news almost daily with high profile cases like Robert

1095
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: Kraft and Jeffrey Epstein. Most people have really still not

1096
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: thought about the links between the sex trade, which includes

1097
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 1: prostitution and sex trafficking. Can you start by giving an

1098
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 1: overview about what sex trafficking is and then explain the

1099
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 1: link between the two sure or so. UM. Under the law,

1100
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: the crime of sex trafficking occurs any time an adult

1101
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 1: is forced or coerced into the sex trade, or any

1102
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: time a child under the age of eighteen is involved

1103
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: in the sex trade. UM. Of course, a lot of

1104
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: people talk about the issue of prostitution and sex trafficking

1105
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 1: as if they're too totally distinct issues. But we know

1106
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 1: from our work that in fact these issues are inextricably linked,

1107
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: and that's true for a number of reasons. UM. First,

1108
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 1: it's important to realize that when people talk about sex trafficking,

1109
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 1: what we're actually saying is people who are trafficked into prostitution. UM.

1110
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 1: Another way of saying that is that although sex trafficking

1111
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 1: might be the means, prostitution is the ultimate end, that

1112
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 1: this is all operating in the same ecosystem. UH. And

1113
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: that's certainly sex buyers who are soliciting individuals in the

1114
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: sex trade are not meaningfully able to discern whether an

1115
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 1: individual they're purchasing is trafficked or not. UM. The other

1116
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: way in which these two issues are linked is that

1117
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: we know from survivors and much of the global research

1118
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: that the vast majority of adults in the sex trade

1119
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: first entered as children, so under the law, they would

1120
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 1: be considered child sex trafficking victims. And so it's important

1121
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 1: to think about, UM, what happens when these kids turn eighteen? Right,

1122
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 1: does this automatically become an empowered career choice for them

1123
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: even if they maybe no longer have a trafficker. Um.

1124
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: So it's really important to understand how these two systems

1125
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 1: are actually very closely connected. UM. And we also have

1126
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 1: to understand how the policies that we UM, you know,

1127
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 1: enact to address one of these issues inevitably impact the other.

1128
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 1: And really quickly, can you go over there's been bills

1129
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 1: introduced in both DC and New York. UM, what do

1130
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: those bills decriminalize? Sure, so there's been a lot of

1131
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: momentum around UM, you know, the need to decriminalize quote

1132
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: unquote sex work. UM. And I think people hear this

1133
01:05:55,200 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: and and initially UM might have a very you know, strong, UM,

1134
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, desire to to support these moves because I

1135
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 1: think we initially think, as you said, that it's really

1136
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: important to decriminalize individuals who are engaged in prostitution, who

1137
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: happened to be some of the most vulnerable members of

1138
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: our community who often entered the sex industry as children. UM.

1139
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 1: But what these bills do is actually go much farther

1140
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 1: than that. UM. What they do is seek to legitimize

1141
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 1: the sex industry by repealing all of the laws around UM,

1142
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 1: sex buying, pimping, and pandering, as well as brothel keeping.

1143
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 1: And what we know is that in doing so they

1144
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 1: actually fuel more harm, more violence, more exploitation, and actually

1145
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 1: directly lead to increase levels of sex trafficking. UM. We

1146
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: all know that, you know, sex buying is illegal in

1147
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 1: most parts of the country except for a handful of

1148
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 1: counties in Nevada. And despite that, there are millions of

1149
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: men willing to break the law in order to buy sex.

1150
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: So imagine what would happen if suddenly we were to

1151
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: repeal those laws. UM. More men would inevitably enter the market,

1152
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: not just from that jurisdiction, but from other jurisdictions where

1153
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: it remains illegal as sex tourists. UM. And what that

1154
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 1: does is it drives up the demand. UH. And the

1155
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 1: reality of the sex trade is that you're never going

1156
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 1: to have as many truly willing and consenting participants as

1157
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: a never ending demand requires. And so that's where sex

1158
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: trafficking comes into play because traffickers will always seek to

1159
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: capitalize on that demand, and they do so by targeting

1160
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 1: are most vulnerable exactly so, and can you talk about

1161
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: the impacts that full decriminalization or legalization have had in

1162
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 1: the countries that have implemented these models? For sure? So

1163
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 1: legalization and full decriminalization are nearly identical in UM implementation

1164
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 1: and the consequences that they both cause. In countries that

1165
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 1: fully decriminalize or legalized prostitution UM, more men, bisex, more

1166
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: women and children are trafficked into UM the commercial sex industry,

1167
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: primarily from poorer nations UM to meet that demand for

1168
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:00,959
Speaker 1: paid sex, there are high rates of violence against people

1169
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 1: in the trade. Organized crime controls the majority of both

1170
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: the legal and illegal markets, and broadle owners conspire with

1171
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 1: the pimps and traffickers to fill their broadles with UM

1172
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: women and youth, primarily women and youth of color. In Germany,

1173
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about a number of countries now

1174
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: and give UM example specific examples from countries of how

1175
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 1: it's manifested. So in Germany, where UM prostitution is legalized,

1176
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: the intersection of capitalism and legalization has produced what they

1177
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: call flat rate and mega broadle chains. I'm going to

1178
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 1: read a quote from a German news article that is

1179
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:47,679
Speaker 1: reviewing one of those broadle chains. Quote. When the pussy

1180
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,440
Speaker 1: Club of flat Ray Broadle opened near Stuttgart, the management

1181
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 1: advertised the club as follows quote sex with all women

1182
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: as long as you want, as often as you want

1183
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,719
Speaker 1: sex anal sex, oral set without a condom, three ways

1184
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 1: group sex, gang bangs end quote. The price seventy euros

1185
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 1: during the day and a hundred in the evening. According

1186
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: to the police, about seventeen hundred men took advantage of

1187
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 1: the offer on the opening weekend. Buses arrived from far away,

1188
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: and local newspapers reported that up to seven hundred men

1189
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 1: stood in line outside the Broadle at any one time. Afterwards,

1190
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: customers wrote in internet chat rooms about them supposedly unsatisfactory service.

1191
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 1: They complained that the women were no longer as fit

1192
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 1: for use. After a few hours. At closing time, many

1193
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 1: of the women collapsed from exhaustion, pain injuries, and infections,

1194
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 1: including painful rashes and fungal infections that spread from their

1195
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: genitals down their legs. This club was closed one year

1196
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 1: later for sex trafficking and that's in a country where

1197
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: it's and that's in the Germany where it's legalized. So um,

1198
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk a little bit about full decriminalization. Again,

1199
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: these are really the same models. The abstract theory behind

1200
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:09,680
Speaker 1: full decriminalization is that the sex trade, a trade that

1201
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 1: is rife with violence and abuse, will somehow self regulate

1202
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:17,799
Speaker 1: to prevent exploitation. In two thousand and three, New Zealand

1203
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 1: decriminalized sex buying, pimping and selling. After full decrim the

1204
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 1: number of unregulated brothels increased and there were high number

1205
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: of reports of incidents of violence against women in the industry,

1206
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: including murder. Of The women who are exploited in street

1207
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 1: based prostitution in New Zealand are Maori and Polynesian. Rather

1208
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,639
Speaker 1: than reducing the number of children exploited in the sex trade,

1209
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 1: New Zealand Commissioner for Children, Dr Cindy Cairo stated that

1210
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 1: New Zealand has a clear problem of child exploitation, which

1211
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 1: she said had most likely worsened since decriminalization. Police reports

1212
01:10:56,320 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: indicate that girls as young as twelve are being sold

1213
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 1: on the streets to adult men, and this is because

1214
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: there's a demand in New Zealand for children because the

1215
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 1: buyers want unprotected sex, but they also don't want s

1216
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: t I S. So sex buyers don't differentiate. They don't

1217
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 1: ask someone if they're trafficked. They don't ask someone are

1218
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:19,719
Speaker 1: you over the age of eighteen. In fact, many sex

1219
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 1: buyers are actually specifically seeking out children because they really

1220
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 1: want someone who they can manipulate and control, who they

1221
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 1: can act out, you know, whatever fantasy of dominance and

1222
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 1: degradation that they want, and they find that vulnerability of

1223
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:37,120
Speaker 1: the person that they're buying arousing. So even though New

1224
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 1: Zealand has been identified as a destination country for trafficking,

1225
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:45,679
Speaker 1: it took the country twelve years to prosecute a single

1226
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 1: trafficker because after full decriminalization, it became the case that

1227
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 1: the laws were so advantageous to traffickers. I'm gonna talk

1228
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: just if if we have the time, we'll talk about

1229
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 1: the Netherlands too, because this is another country of that

1230
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 1: people hold up as an example of um success, which

1231
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: is really a big myth. So in Netherlands, the sex

1232
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 1: industry is legalized, and because the sex industry is so

1233
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,679
Speaker 1: controlled by organized crime, many Dutch cities had to close

1234
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 1: their legal prostitution zones, and Amsterdam closed half of their

1235
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 1: legal prostitution UM windows because the city council had determined

1236
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 1: that they were completely run by organized crime. An investigative

1237
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 1: report was published by the National Police Service and it

1238
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:34,400
Speaker 1: documented that criminal gangs working as pimps and bodyguards had

1239
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: been using extreme violence against women in the industry UM

1240
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 1: and specifically in the legal, licensed, supposedly safe, protected portion

1241
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 1: of the industry. And the report asked, how is this possible?

1242
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: How is it that sex trafficking is happening almost unimpeded

1243
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 1: in the legal sector of our industry, And they identified

1244
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 1: five answers, and I think these are really important because

1245
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 1: of New York legalizes prostitution or you know, fully decriminalizes

1246
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 1: whatever we want to call it, these will be the

1247
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 1: same results that will see. So they found that law

1248
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 1: enforcement has a lot less power to investigate UM and

1249
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:12,599
Speaker 1: they have a lot less incentive to investigate prostitution when

1250
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 1: it's a legal industry. The legal trade acts as a

1251
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 1: cover for the illicit market, making it really hard to

1252
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: track the illegal market. Broadle inspections are not successful in

1253
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,799
Speaker 1: detecting exploitation, in part because the women are often monitored

1254
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:29,800
Speaker 1: by pimps, when the inspectors are interviewing them. They found

1255
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:32,759
Speaker 1: that the bodyguards were actually working for the criminal gangs.

1256
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: Many of the bodyguards were pimps themselves, and they also

1257
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 1: found that there was a high risk of collusion between

1258
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 1: the law enforcement and bodyguards. You've got to remember that

1259
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: when you legalize or fully decriminalized, as soon as that

1260
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 1: officer takes off his uniform, he can be a buyer too.

1261
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,719
Speaker 1: And also they found that legalization relied on the goodwill

1262
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:54,440
Speaker 1: of the broadle owners and the sex buyers to prioritize

1263
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 1: um reporting abuse over their own profit margins and personal

1264
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 1: sexual satisfaction. No so, Melanie, Here in New York we have,

1265
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:11,519
Speaker 1: on the one hand, prostituted people are criminalized under the law,

1266
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,960
Speaker 1: and on the other hand, there's this strong cultural and

1267
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 1: media push to celebrate prostitution as a job like any

1268
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 1: other and as empowering. As a survivor of sex trafficking

1269
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: and prostitution, can you explain why you do not use

1270
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 1: the language of sex work? Absolutely? Um So. I love

1271
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 1: to say that sex is not work, and work is

1272
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 1: not sex. You cannot buy consent, and there's this huge misconception.

1273
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 1: Everybody agrees that those who are traffic shouldn't be in

1274
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:42,639
Speaker 1: that trafficking is bad. But there's always this argument when

1275
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:45,760
Speaker 1: it comes to this idea of consensual sex work. Um,

1276
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 1: And what a lot of people fail to realize is

1277
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 1: that prostitution is a system, not an isolated act that

1278
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: is fueled on other oppressive systems. So what I think

1279
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 1: our community needs to understand around sex work is the

1280
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 1: fact that prostitution is fueled on miss ageny, capitalism, and patriarchy.

1281
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 1: And if you don't have a clear understanding of those

1282
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 1: three oppressive systems, and you're not going to fully understand

1283
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 1: how prostitution can never be considered consensual right concise? I

1284
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 1: love it. Christan EDWARDA, UM, can you talk a little

1285
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 1: bit about how prostitution affects the LGBTQ community. Well, now

1286
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,800
Speaker 1: with this movement, we have been here in the especially

1287
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 1: the LGBT community, it's on board about this. It's like, oh,

1288
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 1: this is the progressivity that we can do. Prostitution is

1289
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,520
Speaker 1: the best thing that you can do. Um. It's interesting

1290
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:45,520
Speaker 1: because the LGBT community has been always seen as the freaks,

1291
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 1: as the ones who are willing to do by choice

1292
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 1: all that theiry things on sex and are willing like

1293
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 1: to try. No matter how we are, how harm, how

1294
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,600
Speaker 1: how much danger injury you can do to somebody, it

1295
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. You always will go stack the alerty community

1296
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,439
Speaker 1: as yes, they're willing to do because they enjoy it

1297
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 1: and they like it. But on the other hand, it's

1298
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: and within the same about prostitution that we don't think

1299
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 1: the people engage in prostitution as we never think about

1300
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 1: them like, oh, this person need to be this person

1301
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 1: need housing, this person need they have all these needs.

1302
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 1: I don't know if they are going to school if not,

1303
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:28,799
Speaker 1: if they are immigrants, that they have lit all status

1304
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 1: or not. We buyers never stop to think about this.

1305
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:40,360
Speaker 1: So why and how this movement is now affecting the

1306
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:44,880
Speaker 1: alivity community. Well, all gerty community has a lot of vulnerabilities.

1307
01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 1: We need a lot of housing, We are a lot

1308
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 1: of immigrants, We lack of legal status, we don't have

1309
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 1: opportunities for a job. But there is a common denominator

1310
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 1: on other communities. People of color is suffered from the

1311
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,800
Speaker 1: same things. Black people is suffering from the same things.

1312
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:04,040
Speaker 1: Immigrants are super infermenting same thing. So it's not only

1313
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 1: altivity communities that are being targeting by this new movement

1314
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 1: on prostitution, it's all our communities that are bolderable, and

1315
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 1: at the end, it's all the communities that are that

1316
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 1: are exposed and are in danger already, and we need

1317
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 1: to think about that. We are more than wholes and

1318
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:29,360
Speaker 1: we're more than sticks because it's the way that everybody

1319
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:33,080
Speaker 1: is seeing people in prostitution. So at the end, we

1320
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:36,640
Speaker 1: are affecting human beings. And I don't know if you

1321
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:40,599
Speaker 1: really have you ever stopped thinking about yourself and oh, yes,

1322
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 1: why I don't wake up today like, yes, let's go

1323
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 1: and have sex with random people. And and that's the

1324
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 1: people that I don't know one just because I mean

1325
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 1: I feel it and it's empowering. I mean, have you

1326
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:58,240
Speaker 1: ever heard about it? Of course not. So we need

1327
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 1: to stop romanticizing prostitution. There is a lot of harm

1328
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 1: over it, and this is not a solution for fully

1329
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:08,760
Speaker 1: cominversation is not the solution. We need more choices, we

1330
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:15,920
Speaker 1: need more opportunities, I agree, Laura. In the US, we

1331
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:18,879
Speaker 1: know that it's primarily white men of privilege buying sexual

1332
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:21,080
Speaker 1: access to the bodies of black and brown women and

1333
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:24,479
Speaker 1: girls of color and members of the LGBTQ community. We

1334
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 1: cannot talk about the sex trade, sex trafficking, and sex

1335
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:31,440
Speaker 1: buying without examining the legacies and ongoing impact of colonization

1336
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:34,600
Speaker 1: and the slave trade. Can you speak about how combating

1337
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:38,840
Speaker 1: prostitution is both a racial and gender justice issue. Yeah,

1338
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 1: prostitution is a racial issue, it's a gender issue. But

1339
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:46,760
Speaker 1: I would also go as far as to say that

1340
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:50,160
Speaker 1: it is a matter of genocide. Um. So everyone knows

1341
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 1: the phrase. If you don't know your history, you're bound

1342
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 1: to repeat it. Right. So um, I am going to

1343
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:01,719
Speaker 1: share a history of my people, right, colonized people. So

1344
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 1: where my family is from, from the Caribbean islands. The

1345
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 1: native people were Diana Indians and women were actually matriarchs.

1346
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:17,760
Speaker 1: So women um fought alongside men, They worked politically alongside men.

1347
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 1: They actually worshiped goddesses. They were They were a matrilineal society.

1348
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:28,720
Speaker 1: And as soon as the colonizer stepped foot in Hispaniola,

1349
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 1: the very first thing that they did was sell our women.

1350
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus used to sell women, girls under the age

1351
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,280
Speaker 1: of twelve years old. There are cases that say that

1352
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:44,080
Speaker 1: he sold uh Tiana girls who were um around nine

1353
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:48,439
Speaker 1: years old. So, um, fast forward thirty years in the island,

1354
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 1: and nine of Tayano Indians were completely um annihilated. Um.

1355
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 1: They were condemned to the slave trade, and women in particular,

1356
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:04,559
Speaker 1: because of their acute vulnerability of being women were condemned

1357
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 1: to the state slave trade. So when you hear people

1358
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 1: say prostitution is the world's oldest oppression, you can tell

1359
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 1: them that story about how my people didn't know prostitution

1360
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 1: until the colonizer stepped on our lands. So when we

1361
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:25,640
Speaker 1: talk about um liberation feminism, when we talk about decolonizing feminism,

1362
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:29,759
Speaker 1: we're talking about going back to times where women didn't

1363
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: have to even deal with being and with existing as

1364
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 1: being a subordinate class. That's what we're talking about. So

1365
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:40,680
Speaker 1: when people push the narrative, oh, you know, this is

1366
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:45,840
Speaker 1: liberation politics, this is not liberation politics. The story that

1367
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 1: I just told is replicated all over the world. You

1368
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 1: can go to Africa, you can even go to places

1369
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 1: such as the Philippines, which still has a booming sex

1370
01:20:55,320 --> 01:21:00,120
Speaker 1: industry unfortunately based predicated on the same same contept globally,

1371
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 1: this is not a profession. It never has and I

1372
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 1: hope that after this panel you can understand that it

1373
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:11,960
Speaker 1: never will be and therefore, we shouldn't pass legislations that

1374
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 1: enshrine our systematic historical oppression into law. All right, So

1375
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 1: you've heard a lot about what we're against, and we

1376
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:25,640
Speaker 1: talk about what legal framework we are for. Absolutely, so

1377
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 1: we support a model called the equality model. This was

1378
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:33,599
Speaker 1: a model that was first pioneered in Sweden. Sweden UM

1379
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 1: was the first country to recognize that prostitution is neither

1380
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 1: work nor a victimless crime, but rather a severe form

1381
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 1: of gender based violence. In Sweden passed the Peace for

1382
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 1: Women Act UM, which criminalized sex buying and pimping, while

1383
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 1: they also decriminalized the individuals who are being bought and

1384
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:59,160
Speaker 1: sold in the industry. So they recognize that the individuals

1385
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 1: who are being exploited it should not be criminalized for

1386
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 1: their own exploitation. The model is a combination of three

1387
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:09,160
Speaker 1: equally important components. The first is that it provides robust

1388
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:12,760
Speaker 1: social services to survivors so that they can exit and

1389
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 1: heal from this um the trauma that they endure in

1390
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:18,520
Speaker 1: this industry. The second is that it uses a community

1391
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:22,759
Speaker 1: education campaign to teach men about the harms that sex

1392
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:26,920
Speaker 1: buying causes to individuals and to the community. And the

1393
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 1: third is that it changes the laws as I mentioned

1394
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 1: at the beginning, to reflect that prostitution is a form

1395
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 1: of gender based violence. Iceland and Norway followed Sweden adopting

1396
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 1: the same legislation, and every year, I think this is

1397
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:43,599
Speaker 1: a really interesting fact. Every year these three countries are

1398
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 1: ranked among the top five of the World Economic Forums

1399
01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 1: Index for equality between women and men. So each of

1400
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:55,320
Speaker 1: these countries has made a quality model policies part of

1401
01:22:55,360 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 1: their gender equality like legislation. Overall, it's important to know,

1402
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 1: because I think folks get concerned about this, that the

1403
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 1: equality model is not driven by incarceration. That's something that

1404
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:10,760
Speaker 1: the United States really focuses on. UM sex spires are

1405
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 1: subject to finds on a sliding fee scale based on

1406
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 1: their income. The model, what it really does is it

1407
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:21,280
Speaker 1: works to prevent this harm in the first place, so

1408
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:25,440
Speaker 1: they strive to decrease demand by teaching men about the harms.

1409
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:29,639
Speaker 1: And it also is committed to empowering marginalized communities, um

1410
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 1: and populations so that they don't get pulled into this

1411
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:35,559
Speaker 1: destructive industry in the first place. So I really think

1412
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 1: it's important for us to recognize that it's about supporting

1413
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:42,760
Speaker 1: survivors to heal from the trauma that they've endured. UM.

1414
01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:45,160
Speaker 1: I also want to just say really quickly that, uh,

1415
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 1: the equality model, because I think this helps folks to

1416
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:51,320
Speaker 1: understand what the equality model is. It really recognizes that

1417
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:53,800
Speaker 1: prostitution should be treated in the same way that we

1418
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 1: treat other forms of gender based violence, like domestic violence.

1419
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:02,320
Speaker 1: So the model only um decriminalizes the individual who is

1420
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: being exploited. It doesn't decriminalize the sex buying, the pimping,

1421
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:10,639
Speaker 1: the trafficking. And this model has been adopted in seven

1422
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:15,120
Speaker 1: additional countries. So there happens to be a huge misinformation

1423
01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:18,759
Speaker 1: campaign about this model, whereby detractors claim that it's a failure,

1424
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 1: that it pushes prostitution on the ground, makes it more

1425
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 1: dangerous for people in the sex trade. Um, we don't

1426
01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:25,120
Speaker 1: have time to get into all the myths, but can

1427
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 1: you address one or two of those myths for sure?

1428
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 1: So the equality model has decreased the size of the

1429
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:34,200
Speaker 1: commercial sex trade, like I said, by decreasing the number

1430
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:37,840
Speaker 1: of sex buyers and pimps, and by preventing people from

1431
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 1: being pulled into the industry. Also, the model helps folks,

1432
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:43,680
Speaker 1: as I said, who are in the sex trade to

1433
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:47,760
Speaker 1: exit and it's and it's really important again they help

1434
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:49,800
Speaker 1: them to access the service that they need to heal.

1435
01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 1: So what all of this means is that the equality

1436
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 1: model is a major threat to the big business interests

1437
01:24:56,960 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 1: that profit from the sex trade. This is I just

1438
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:05,320
Speaker 1: always want to like contextualize this. This is a multibillion

1439
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 1: dollar global industry, so really big industry, a lot of

1440
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:11,680
Speaker 1: folks with a lot of vested interest in seeing this

1441
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:17,559
Speaker 1: industry normalized, decriminalized, legalized, and seeing it expand across the globe.

1442
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 1: So also that means that there's there's significant power behind

1443
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 1: the scenes invested in discrediting the equality model, because the

1444
01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:28,679
Speaker 1: equality model is our single, like the single biggest threat

1445
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:32,679
Speaker 1: to the sex industry right now. Before enacting the equality model,

1446
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:35,519
Speaker 1: Sweden actually had a full decrim model, and it was

1447
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:38,720
Speaker 1: because of the failures that this model was showing in

1448
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:41,639
Speaker 1: the country that they enacted the um the equality model

1449
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:44,760
Speaker 1: in the first place. And after it was passed, they

1450
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:47,960
Speaker 1: saw sex the percentage of men who are buying sex

1451
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 1: dropped from thirteen point six percent to seven point four percent.

1452
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:55,600
Speaker 1: And it's because the demand dropped that the size of

1453
01:25:55,640 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 1: the industry began to shrink. Dramatically. In our culture, we

1454
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 1: really hyper fixate on the choices made by people who

1455
01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:05,799
Speaker 1: are bought and sold in the industry, and I always

1456
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 1: tell people that this is actually a form of victim blaming,

1457
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,759
Speaker 1: and it obscures that it hides the individuals who are

1458
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:16,560
Speaker 1: truly making empowered choices, the pimps, the sex buyers, the traffickers.

1459
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 1: They are the individuals who decide how much they will pay,

1460
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:22,639
Speaker 1: if they will use a condom, if they will rape

1461
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 1: the person that they've bought, if they will make the

1462
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 1: person that they're selling use a sponge to hide their

1463
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:31,040
Speaker 1: menstrual flow. These are the people that are making the choices,

1464
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:35,479
Speaker 1: and extensive research from around the world shows that sex

1465
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:38,920
Speaker 1: buyer and pimp violence is an embedded aspect of prostitution.

1466
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 1: Panic buttons in brothels, pimps posing as bodyguards, training, and

1467
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:48,320
Speaker 1: hostage negotiation skills. All of these things have been tried,

1468
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:52,760
Speaker 1: and they don't make prostitution any safer, because, frankly, prostitution

1469
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:57,640
Speaker 1: is not safe. There's a study that was done in

1470
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 1: the United States, and of the buyers in that study

1471
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 1: stated that if if a man pays a woman for sex,

1472
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:09,080
Speaker 1: that that woman should do anything he asks, there's a

1473
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:12,560
Speaker 1: sense of ownership that comes when you buy another person's body,

1474
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 1: and in another study, nearly half of the buyers admitted

1475
01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 1: that they had paid for sexual acts with someone they

1476
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 1: knew to be under the control of a pimper trafficker.

1477
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 1: They just didn't care, so advocates in the sex trade

1478
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:27,440
Speaker 1: Advocates of the sex trade um folks in the Netherlands,

1479
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:30,720
Speaker 1: New Zealand, Denmark and Germany. They all argued that they

1480
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:34,320
Speaker 1: were decriminalizing or legalizing prostitution for the benefit of the

1481
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:38,639
Speaker 1: women in the industry. But those who truly benefited from

1482
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:41,439
Speaker 1: this multibillion dollar trade and who continue to benefit are

1483
01:27:41,479 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 1: the broad ol owners, the pimps, the sex buyers, and

1484
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:49,080
Speaker 1: the governments who are bringing in a significant tax in

1485
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:52,720
Speaker 1: tourism revenue. Survivors, on the other hand, are dealing with

1486
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 1: acute and chronic medical illnesses and injuries that result from

1487
01:27:56,280 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 1: being repeatedly bought for sex by strangers, such as traumatic

1488
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:03,880
Speaker 1: brain injuries from having one's heads slammed into car doors

1489
01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:07,920
Speaker 1: and windows, genital and internal injuries, as well as common

1490
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 1: psychological impacts like PTSD. Because you never know is this

1491
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:13,960
Speaker 1: sex buyer going to be the one that murders me

1492
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:20,360
Speaker 1: or rapes me, and also suicidal ideation, dissociation. The human

1493
01:28:20,439 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 1: body and psyche are not able to sustain sex with five, ten,

1494
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:32,759
Speaker 1: fifteen thirty strangers a day, multiple days a week, multiple

1495
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:39,000
Speaker 1: weeks a year. This causes severe physical and psychological harm.

1496
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:42,680
Speaker 1: And these impacts don't discriminate based on whether someone identifies

1497
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 1: as a sex worker, a survivor, or a victim of

1498
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:50,880
Speaker 1: sex trafficking. So last week, we were at a hearing

1499
01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. In front of the DC Council

1500
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 1: members and someone um and it was about a decriminalization bill,

1501
01:28:57,400 --> 01:28:59,559
Speaker 1: and someone who was against the bill got up and

1502
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:04,439
Speaker 1: said to the council members, this legislation doesn't protect black

1503
01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:07,560
Speaker 1: and brown girls. It protects the white men who buy them.

1504
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:11,639
Speaker 1: So Christian Eduardo, every dollar pimps and traffickers make comes

1505
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:14,679
Speaker 1: from the sex buyers who feel the demand that leads

1506
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:18,759
Speaker 1: to sex trafficking. Can you talk about the buyer's role? Well,

1507
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:22,240
Speaker 1: it's something really interesting actually happening in this room. There

1508
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 1: are no men in this room. There are a couple

1509
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:27,080
Speaker 1: of men's and the first thing that we need to

1510
01:29:27,080 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 1: do is like break this cycle of that we are

1511
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 1: ideals always keeping this conversation only with victims, survivors, females

1512
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:41,599
Speaker 1: like the ones that are always suffering, and they are

1513
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:45,320
Speaker 1: the ones that are always in danger because the people

1514
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:48,439
Speaker 1: of empower and privilege, they don't care. That's it's true.

1515
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:54,000
Speaker 1: And on the other hand, and I feel this is

1516
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:58,320
Speaker 1: something that we are all doing. Like even if we

1517
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:02,840
Speaker 1: see are people being prostituted on the street, we never

1518
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:06,080
Speaker 1: stop to think about, lie, is this person being traffic?

1519
01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 1: Is this person here by choice? So it's easier to

1520
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:12,559
Speaker 1: always say, like, now they are doing it because it's

1521
01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:16,439
Speaker 1: their choice, because it's their decision they are aware of

1522
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:20,320
Speaker 1: or what they're doing and I don't care is the true,

1523
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:23,439
Speaker 1: and we are continue to doing this, so we need

1524
01:30:23,479 --> 01:30:26,760
Speaker 1: to stop that. And the other thing is that buyers

1525
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:31,280
Speaker 1: is for they don't care. And when I was traffic

1526
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:38,720
Speaker 1: and nobody stop to ask me like, oh, do you

1527
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:43,000
Speaker 1: like it? Can I do it? Are you enjoying it?

1528
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 1: And this is happening to a lot of people right now.

1529
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:52,280
Speaker 1: We really need to break the stigma about and around prostitution.

1530
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:57,280
Speaker 1: And we cannot continue to protect buyers because buyers who

1531
01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 1: are the buyers, men's are the buyers. And this is

1532
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:05,880
Speaker 1: true and for real, you need to invite every single

1533
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 1: one male in your life to join this conversation because

1534
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:13,439
Speaker 1: if that not happened, we are this is going to

1535
01:31:13,479 --> 01:31:18,080
Speaker 1: continue happening because they don't care. They don't have vagina,

1536
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:21,880
Speaker 1: they are not female that they don't have like all

1537
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:24,559
Speaker 1: these things that were for real, as a male, I'm

1538
01:31:24,720 --> 01:31:27,599
Speaker 1: always every single day is so worried about my female

1539
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 1: friends because and it's something that you worry every single day,

1540
01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:37,040
Speaker 1: and I feel that you don't related it with prostitution

1541
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 1: and trafficking. We are all against like sensual arressment, we

1542
01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 1: are all against rape. We are we're always fighting for

1543
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:50,639
Speaker 1: now respect my identity, resect my rights, and sexual arressments, rape,

1544
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 1: the denial of your identity our components of prostitution and trafficking.

1545
01:31:56,600 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 1: So we need to stop. She'll and the buyers and

1546
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:06,639
Speaker 1: if they want fully criminalization for real? Why this panel

1547
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:10,360
Speaker 1: is full of victims, activists, survivors, w they are not

1548
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:13,960
Speaker 1: buyers coming here and standing that, oh I have the

1549
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:18,120
Speaker 1: right to buy the body of somebody because I have

1550
01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:21,760
Speaker 1: money and power and I don't care. Tell me, what

1551
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:26,080
Speaker 1: are the reasons to buy somebody? Why are we why

1552
01:32:26,120 --> 01:32:29,639
Speaker 1: are we still doing that can you can you for real,

1553
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:34,280
Speaker 1: imagine just yours yourself, put yourself like and if you

1554
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 1: really need housing, if you don't have food, if you

1555
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:39,840
Speaker 1: are here with all legal status, if you cannot have

1556
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 1: if you cannot find a job, like, it's not a

1557
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 1: decision to move to prostitution for real. It's never going

1558
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:52,720
Speaker 1: to be a solution. And the buyers are just spraying

1559
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:56,360
Speaker 1: on on these people. And the problem is that we

1560
01:32:56,360 --> 01:33:01,280
Speaker 1: are feeding these vulnerabilities, and we have this tendency to

1561
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:04,280
Speaker 1: think that everybody in the world is like, we are

1562
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:07,000
Speaker 1: all good persons, we are worried wanting to and that's

1563
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:11,080
Speaker 1: not true. Believe me, that's not true. I was trafficked

1564
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:14,880
Speaker 1: by people of color of my own community, LGBT people

1565
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:17,800
Speaker 1: of color, and trust me, we need to stop that.

1566
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:20,880
Speaker 1: We need to stop protecting buyers, and we need to

1567
01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:24,920
Speaker 1: start talking openly about this. So I hope that you

1568
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:28,920
Speaker 1: joined after this two our proposal for the equality model,

1569
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:31,439
Speaker 1: and that we are moving forward that we want to

1570
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:34,559
Speaker 1: protect people. And if I'm talking here, it's because I

1571
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:37,960
Speaker 1: don't want that nobody going through the same that I went.

1572
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 1: I walk in hell and nobody deserved that. Yeah, And

1573
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 1: to that point, another quote we heard at the hearing

1574
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:56,160
Speaker 1: last week was by someone who said that they were

1575
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:59,120
Speaker 1: there by choice and we're supporting a bill to decommize

1576
01:33:59,200 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 1: the sex trade. And they looked right at the members

1577
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:03,519
Speaker 1: of members of City Council and said, come on, you're

1578
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:07,120
Speaker 1: our buyers. Don't criminalize us. So if that doesn't say it,

1579
01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 1: um so to that, Laura, how do you respond to

1580
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:16,880
Speaker 1: progressive policies that embrace quote unquote sex work movements, politicians

1581
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:19,879
Speaker 1: organizations that claim that full decrim is the way forward.

1582
01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:26,719
Speaker 1: Masking full decriminalization of the sex trade is perhaps the

1583
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:32,760
Speaker 1: laziest um betrayal of women as a class that I

1584
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:38,559
Speaker 1: have ever seen. Um, I would I would encourage people

1585
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:43,000
Speaker 1: to be more strategic and to be more liberation uh,

1586
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:47,320
Speaker 1: and and focus liberation in their advocacy for politics. You See,

1587
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:51,120
Speaker 1: the thing is when we speak with people who have

1588
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 1: been in the trade and who justify their um existence

1589
01:34:56,240 --> 01:34:59,840
Speaker 1: in the trade, right, so we're talking pro sex work advocates,

1590
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:03,160
Speaker 1: they all share the same story. I think it was

1591
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:07,080
Speaker 1: one of you who said, uh, there's no difference between

1592
01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:10,639
Speaker 1: a sex worker, a prostituted person, and a trafficed victim

1593
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:14,439
Speaker 1: because they all experience the same material reality. Um. But

1594
01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:18,400
Speaker 1: when in speaking with people who are, according to them,

1595
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:22,240
Speaker 1: willingly engaged in the trade, they say, well, I do

1596
01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:24,920
Speaker 1: this because I need to pay my rent, or I

1597
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:27,439
Speaker 1: do this because I need to pay for school, or

1598
01:35:27,479 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 1: I do this because I'm a trans individual. And there's uh,

1599
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:36,160
Speaker 1: you know, there's not equal protected equal protection in in hiring.

1600
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:38,599
Speaker 1: You know what those sound like to me? That sounds

1601
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:42,880
Speaker 1: like an education for All campaign, a job protection campaign,

1602
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:48,120
Speaker 1: a regularly um housing campaign. Those are campaigns that are

1603
01:35:48,200 --> 01:35:52,480
Speaker 1: actually progressive, progressive and actually have a vision of liberation

1604
01:35:52,840 --> 01:35:57,360
Speaker 1: and actually have people's best interests at heart, as opposed

1605
01:35:57,400 --> 01:36:01,840
Speaker 1: to the pro men feminism that we hear being being

1606
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:07,160
Speaker 1: you know, yelled at by people who want to defend

1607
01:36:07,200 --> 01:36:11,840
Speaker 1: this this idea that you know, uh, sex work is

1608
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 1: somehow um feminist. And it's really unfortunate because the sex

1609
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:20,679
Speaker 1: trade has become the progressive lit miss tests. In other words,

1610
01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 1: if you like google how to be Woke, they're going

1611
01:36:23,160 --> 01:36:25,519
Speaker 1: to send you a giant list of things that you

1612
01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:28,120
Speaker 1: need to do, and one of them is accept the

1613
01:36:28,160 --> 01:36:31,800
Speaker 1: sex trade into your feminist policy. And we are here

1614
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:35,479
Speaker 1: to tell you that that is absolutely not true. If

1615
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:37,840
Speaker 1: we know where we're coming from and we know where

1616
01:36:37,880 --> 01:36:41,599
Speaker 1: we want to go, and that is a world without violence,

1617
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:45,639
Speaker 1: without patriarchy, without misogyny, then we would know better than

1618
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:50,400
Speaker 1: to cement women's subordinate position in society as a class

1619
01:36:50,439 --> 01:36:54,240
Speaker 1: that exists to be purchased for the purposes of male

1620
01:36:54,320 --> 01:37:07,519
Speaker 1: sexual satisfaction. So, Melanie, to sum it all up, what

1621
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:10,040
Speaker 1: messages would it send to men and boys about gender

1622
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:13,200
Speaker 1: equality and the liberation if we decriminalize the act of

1623
01:37:13,240 --> 01:37:16,960
Speaker 1: purchasing women's body, especially in the age of me too. Yeah,

1624
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:21,120
Speaker 1: in the age of me too, it's funny, um. Honestly. Essentially,

1625
01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:24,120
Speaker 1: what full decriminalization is saying to the world is that

1626
01:37:24,200 --> 01:37:26,519
Speaker 1: women can be bought, that girls can be bought, that

1627
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:32,559
Speaker 1: anybody that's marginalized, um is property. Honestly. Um. Interestingly enough,

1628
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:36,759
Speaker 1: there was a study done in Seattle, UM on sex

1629
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:41,559
Speaker 1: buyers and what the results showed was that the height

1630
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:45,479
Speaker 1: of sex buying usually happened around two pm, UM, usually

1631
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:48,519
Speaker 1: during the work day, right after somebody's lunch. And I

1632
01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:52,080
Speaker 1: can personally attest to what that looks like considering the

1633
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:55,320
Speaker 1: amount of people that have purchased my body for their

1634
01:37:55,439 --> 01:38:00,000
Speaker 1: lunch our special um. So, really, if we fully decriminalize

1635
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:03,240
Speaker 1: as the sex trade and its entirety. Um, what we're

1636
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:05,200
Speaker 1: really saying is that you can continue to view people

1637
01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:08,120
Speaker 1: as commodities and that consent can be purchased. Um. And

1638
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:11,679
Speaker 1: we're also saying to to individuals that UM, a dollar

1639
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:15,080
Speaker 1: or a hundred dollars, whatever have you, means that you're

1640
01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:17,519
Speaker 1: no longer oppressed. And that's an issue, that's something that

1641
01:38:17,520 --> 01:38:19,120
Speaker 1: we need to come back as a community. And whether

1642
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:21,800
Speaker 1: or not you're margine, if you're marginalized or privileged, we

1643
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:24,760
Speaker 1: all have a role to play in that. So right,

1644
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:26,720
Speaker 1: and if that guy goes out and buy sex at

1645
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:28,479
Speaker 1: lunch time, it comes back, how is he going to

1646
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:31,240
Speaker 1: treat you as an equal in the how we that

1647
01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:35,680
Speaker 1: in the office. I find it really, um, really baffling

1648
01:38:35,720 --> 01:38:38,439
Speaker 1: in my opinion that in the age of me too, UM,

1649
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:40,880
Speaker 1: somebody goes public or somebody just comes out and says,

1650
01:38:40,880 --> 01:38:42,760
Speaker 1: you know what, I went out last night and I

1651
01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:45,640
Speaker 1: was raped, and then we all stand in solidarity. But

1652
01:38:45,720 --> 01:38:47,439
Speaker 1: I go to that same individual and say, I went

1653
01:38:47,479 --> 01:38:49,120
Speaker 1: out last night and I was raping somebody put a

1654
01:38:49,160 --> 01:38:50,880
Speaker 1: hundred dollars on the desk, and not all of a sudden,

1655
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:53,960
Speaker 1: I'm a prostitute. I had consent, I had choice, I

1656
01:38:54,040 --> 01:38:56,400
Speaker 1: was no longer oppressed, I'm not black and brown, I'm

1657
01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:59,000
Speaker 1: still not poor. All of these things change. I think

1658
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 1: we really need to wake up the community and realize

1659
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:02,720
Speaker 1: that the traumas are still the same. Similar to what

1660
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:12,759
Speaker 1: Laura was saying, anyone, does anyone have a last thought

1661
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 1: they want to close on or should we do? What

1662
01:39:16,360 --> 01:39:18,800
Speaker 1: can we do? You can spread the word. You can

1663
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:21,559
Speaker 1: talk to people. When you hear sex work is work,

1664
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:24,840
Speaker 1: push back on them. Explain what you've learned today. Um.

1665
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:26,599
Speaker 1: When you see it in the media, when you see

1666
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:31,479
Speaker 1: popular magazines whose audience are young girls talking about sex

1667
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:35,599
Speaker 1: work being liberating, push back on them. Um. And then

1668
01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:38,640
Speaker 1: there's there's another thing you can do. UM. Well, we

1669
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:41,760
Speaker 1: have a little hand out here because the language is confusing,

1670
01:39:41,760 --> 01:39:44,000
Speaker 1: so when you do talk about it, we've got your

1671
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:48,600
Speaker 1: your support here. UM. But you can also donate. UM.

1672
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:50,800
Speaker 1: What we're what the money would go to as a

1673
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:54,559
Speaker 1: survivor leadership fund because we work with these incredible survivors

1674
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:56,280
Speaker 1: who do this out of the goodness of their hearts

1675
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:58,640
Speaker 1: and because they don't want anyone else to experience what

1676
01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:02,280
Speaker 1: they've been through. But it's not their jobs. It's their

1677
01:40:02,320 --> 01:40:05,640
Speaker 1: extracurricular So let's help fund them, um and make it,

1678
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:17,639
Speaker 1: you know, make their work worthwhile. So that's what you can. Yeah. Sorry,

1679
01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:24,800
Speaker 1: um that it can seem like an unpopular thing to advocates,

1680
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:33,720
Speaker 1: but as someone who has exacting yeah yeah, Amy had

1681
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:37,640
Speaker 1: her show protested and it's still here. So thank you,

1682
01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:45,400
Speaker 1: thank you for using your voice. Are we doing what

1683
01:40:45,400 --> 01:40:51,160
Speaker 1: should we do? Questions? Yeah? Yeah. Two things I want

1684
01:40:51,200 --> 01:40:54,800
Speaker 1: to say is, first of all, for me, one of

1685
01:40:54,840 --> 01:40:59,519
Speaker 1: the things that really opened my eyes is um, sex

1686
01:40:59,560 --> 01:41:04,839
Speaker 1: industry is such a huge, huge industry. And the reason

1687
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:08,680
Speaker 1: why it is such a huge industry is because the

1688
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:14,000
Speaker 1: inventory is free. They don't pay for the inventory. If

1689
01:41:14,040 --> 01:41:17,120
Speaker 1: you are if you are a drug dealer, you have

1690
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 1: to buy the drugs and sell it. You don't buy

1691
01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:25,599
Speaker 1: this inventory and it's replenishable. So if you think about

1692
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:29,280
Speaker 1: that way, it's just so horrible. I think it's a

1693
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:34,840
Speaker 1: very good way to think it. And so I'm glad

1694
01:41:34,880 --> 01:41:38,240
Speaker 1: that we can raise some money. So if you when

1695
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:40,720
Speaker 1: you go downstairs, if you shop, I will give you

1696
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 1: will go to your organization, and I personally will match

1697
01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:58,160
Speaker 1: it much the twenty percent. Um. Sorry, my English is

1698
01:41:58,240 --> 01:42:00,400
Speaker 1: not very well, but are you going to trying to

1699
01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:04,439
Speaker 1: do it? So I would like to know how can

1700
01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:11,479
Speaker 1: we explain to the the community? Are the people whatever

1701
01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:20,680
Speaker 1: a what is UM sex trafficking? Because I was in

1702
01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:24,920
Speaker 1: sex trafficking when I was talking, but I didn't realize

1703
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:29,479
Speaker 1: that until my forty idears. So how can we have

1704
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:42,240
Speaker 1: planed then the community? Uh, the sex trafficking exists. I mean,

1705
01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:44,519
Speaker 1: I think it's really critical to know it's it's much

1706
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:47,360
Speaker 1: more pervasive than anyone thinks. I mean again, I'm based

1707
01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:49,840
Speaker 1: in Washington, d c UM, and I can just give

1708
01:42:49,880 --> 01:42:54,000
Speaker 1: you an idea that one of the you know, few

1709
01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:59,120
Speaker 1: organizations serving trafficed youth UM is currently serving seventy kids,

1710
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:01,720
Speaker 1: with another twe me three on the wait list. And

1711
01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:05,120
Speaker 1: this is with all the existing laws against trafficking, against

1712
01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:10,000
Speaker 1: you know, exploitation of miners, against child rape and statutory rape. UM,

1713
01:43:10,040 --> 01:43:12,600
Speaker 1: all these laws on the books, and we're still consistently

1714
01:43:12,640 --> 01:43:15,519
Speaker 1: at capacity. So again, you know what would happen if

1715
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:18,479
Speaker 1: we were to suddenly repeal all these laws? Obviously it

1716
01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:21,040
Speaker 1: would it would go up. And so UM, I think

1717
01:43:21,040 --> 01:43:23,439
Speaker 1: you also raise an important point that most of the

1718
01:43:23,479 --> 01:43:27,679
Speaker 1: survivors that I've ever worked with didn't self identify as traffic.

1719
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:30,479
Speaker 1: You know, some of those realizations come later in life

1720
01:43:30,520 --> 01:43:33,719
Speaker 1: when um, you know, they're exposed to some other type

1721
01:43:33,720 --> 01:43:38,320
Speaker 1: of services or UM you know, maybe it's through um,

1722
01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:41,559
Speaker 1: you know, a domestic violence scenario or some other type

1723
01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:45,280
Speaker 1: of scenario where they realize that exploitation that's not uncommon. UM,

1724
01:43:45,320 --> 01:43:47,720
Speaker 1: but I think it's really important to know that it

1725
01:43:48,120 --> 01:43:51,720
Speaker 1: seems like a really crazy issue, but it's much more

1726
01:43:51,720 --> 01:44:01,200
Speaker 1: pervasive than I think any of us really realize. M. Well,

1727
01:44:01,320 --> 01:44:04,000
Speaker 1: I really want to just tell everybody that you are

1728
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:13,280
Speaker 1: quite an impressive group, and UM, break really really takes

1729
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:15,639
Speaker 1: a lot of courage to do the work you're doing

1730
01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:21,200
Speaker 1: and to have UM and speak so freely about your

1731
01:44:21,280 --> 01:44:26,760
Speaker 1: own experiences. Alexei convinced, UM, that's why I want to

1732
01:44:26,760 --> 01:44:30,160
Speaker 1: do here. I got you, got me. UM. My question

1733
01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:38,280
Speaker 1: is I'm a little confused. If we do not decriminalize,

1734
01:44:38,360 --> 01:44:42,400
Speaker 1: we stay exactly as we are. No, I think, so

1735
01:44:42,720 --> 01:44:45,320
Speaker 1: that's what I need help. Unders. What we're advocating for

1736
01:44:45,439 --> 01:44:47,800
Speaker 1: is the equality model, and that is also known as

1737
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:52,040
Speaker 1: the Nordic model, Swedish model, or partial decriminalization. So I

1738
01:44:52,040 --> 01:44:54,200
Speaker 1: think that it is the partial decent right so I

1739
01:44:54,200 --> 01:44:56,240
Speaker 1: think what you're where you're getting confused is like full

1740
01:44:56,360 --> 01:44:59,760
Speaker 1: versus partial. So what we're advocating for is the de

1741
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:04,120
Speaker 1: criminalization of the person that's engaged in prostitution, I E. Myself,

1742
01:45:04,360 --> 01:45:07,160
Speaker 1: I E. Christian, I, any of the survivors that are

1743
01:45:07,240 --> 01:45:10,400
Speaker 1: engaged in prostitution. But it still keeps the penalties for

1744
01:45:10,439 --> 01:45:13,640
Speaker 1: the perpetration. And that's whether you self identify. That's the equality,

1745
01:45:13,720 --> 01:45:17,280
Speaker 1: not okay, And that's whether you're trafficed or yourself identify

1746
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:19,200
Speaker 1: as a sex worker and you want to be there.

1747
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:23,080
Speaker 1: It decriminalize, it decriminalizes the sex trade for the people

1748
01:45:23,120 --> 01:45:26,120
Speaker 1: who are bought and sold in prostitution. So for the

1749
01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:31,559
Speaker 1: women and also the men who are become victims. UM,

1750
01:45:31,920 --> 01:45:38,680
Speaker 1: talk to me about, UM, how we can what we

1751
01:45:38,800 --> 01:45:45,360
Speaker 1: can do that will give them alternative lifestyles if they

1752
01:45:45,439 --> 01:45:48,680
Speaker 1: think that this is something that they have to do

1753
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:51,160
Speaker 1: to put food on the table, take care of their kids,

1754
01:45:51,240 --> 01:45:55,720
Speaker 1: pick them up from school. Help me understand, because we

1755
01:45:55,800 --> 01:45:59,200
Speaker 1: are not unfortunately in some ways or very fortunately. You know,

1756
01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:03,960
Speaker 1: there's we're not in Canadian. Um, we are a very

1757
01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:08,759
Speaker 1: we're a bunch of mutts. But uh, but and it's different.

1758
01:46:09,080 --> 01:46:13,519
Speaker 1: It's just different in this crazy wild Yeah, so the

1759
01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:17,440
Speaker 1: world we live in, so thank you. We aren't Scandinavian,

1760
01:46:17,520 --> 01:46:21,240
Speaker 1: but we can still match those ideals. And we actually

1761
01:46:21,680 --> 01:46:23,600
Speaker 1: we were a lot of us were advocating with the

1762
01:46:23,600 --> 01:46:26,759
Speaker 1: New York City Council, and the New York City Council

1763
01:46:26,840 --> 01:46:31,160
Speaker 1: decided to allocate funding for us to create a comprehensive

1764
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:36,240
Speaker 1: Social Service Center UM, which will co locate medical services,

1765
01:46:36,320 --> 01:46:42,040
Speaker 1: legal services, UM, therapeutic clinical services, you know, everything that

1766
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:45,480
Speaker 1: you might need in one location, and we're working on UM,

1767
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:48,760
Speaker 1: you know, bing renovating that location right now. Now. This

1768
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:52,200
Speaker 1: is a you know these centers Actually we're pioneered by Sweden.

1769
01:46:52,240 --> 01:46:55,120
Speaker 1: This is one of the key components that they said

1770
01:46:55,160 --> 01:46:57,439
Speaker 1: you need to implement if you're going to implement the

1771
01:46:57,479 --> 01:47:00,400
Speaker 1: equality model. And so we're working on bringing at for

1772
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:03,120
Speaker 1: the first time to the United States right now. It'll

1773
01:47:03,160 --> 01:47:05,519
Speaker 1: be opening in a month and it's called the Empower Center.

1774
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:08,400
Speaker 1: Good for you all, And just to quickly add to that,

1775
01:47:08,439 --> 01:47:10,720
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the other really critical components

1776
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:14,599
Speaker 1: of the equality model and the partial decriminalization approach because

1777
01:47:14,640 --> 01:47:18,840
Speaker 1: it recognizes and debunks the notion of prostitution as a

1778
01:47:18,920 --> 01:47:22,519
Speaker 1: legitimate job. UM part of what you'll see with these

1779
01:47:22,680 --> 01:47:26,040
Speaker 1: legislative proposals that seek to just fully decriminalize the sex

1780
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:29,280
Speaker 1: trade is that there are no services, right because why

1781
01:47:29,320 --> 01:47:32,360
Speaker 1: would you provide services to help people out of a

1782
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:36,479
Speaker 1: legitimate profession. So I think this is why, um, you know,

1783
01:47:36,600 --> 01:47:39,120
Speaker 1: all of us really advocate for the equality model, which

1784
01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:42,519
Speaker 1: is the decriminalization of those engaged in prostitution, coupled with

1785
01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:47,640
Speaker 1: vital services resources, exit strategies and as well as you know,

1786
01:47:47,720 --> 01:47:50,479
Speaker 1: sealing and expunging their criminal records so that they can

1787
01:47:50,520 --> 01:47:54,680
Speaker 1: actually exit the industry, access housing, jobs and other opportunities.

1788
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:58,720
Speaker 1: But if you legitimize prostitution as work, um, there's no

1789
01:47:58,800 --> 01:48:01,599
Speaker 1: incentive to help people of it. And it also sets

1790
01:48:01,600 --> 01:48:04,760
Speaker 1: a really dangerous precedent down the line in terms of,

1791
01:48:04,840 --> 01:48:07,479
Speaker 1: you know, are we then ready to deny poor women

1792
01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:11,080
Speaker 1: unemployment benefits for turning down a job opening at a brothel?

1793
01:48:11,320 --> 01:48:13,920
Speaker 1: So I think we have to be really um, you know,

1794
01:48:14,200 --> 01:48:17,599
Speaker 1: genuine about is this a job like any other and

1795
01:48:17,720 --> 01:48:25,639
Speaker 1: feel confident debunking that. How close are we too? High?

1796
01:48:25,680 --> 01:48:29,280
Speaker 1: Congratulations to everybody, um. Sheila Maloney from the Keenney School

1797
01:48:29,280 --> 01:48:32,000
Speaker 1: of Journalism. I'm from Ireland, where we have the equality

1798
01:48:32,040 --> 01:48:39,200
Speaker 1: model in place, and yeah, but thanks to the thanks

1799
01:48:39,240 --> 01:48:41,479
Speaker 1: to the great work of an activist whom I'm sure

1800
01:48:41,479 --> 01:48:45,120
Speaker 1: you've heard of, Rachel moren Um. I was just wondering

1801
01:48:45,160 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 1: because I was in Amsterdam recently myself actually, and I

1802
01:48:48,479 --> 01:48:50,320
Speaker 1: was shocked. I've been there before, but I was shocked

1803
01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:53,200
Speaker 1: to see that there are actually prostitution museums there now,

1804
01:48:53,920 --> 01:48:59,240
Speaker 1: so you can actually go, Yeah, it's unbelievable, and you

1805
01:48:59,320 --> 01:49:03,120
Speaker 1: have like and our prostitutes who are retired who take

1806
01:49:03,200 --> 01:49:05,559
Speaker 1: you around and explain, and the whole thing is so

1807
01:49:05,600 --> 01:49:09,120
Speaker 1: sanitized and so normalized, and I was just wondering, how

1808
01:49:09,160 --> 01:49:13,800
Speaker 1: do you go about, um countering that myth of normalization?

1809
01:49:15,120 --> 01:49:20,760
Speaker 1: Can I I think the very very first thing, I

1810
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:23,120
Speaker 1: think the very first thing that you can do is

1811
01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:26,599
Speaker 1: not use the term sex work right so that I

1812
01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:30,680
Speaker 1: think we we hear every day, and all of us

1813
01:49:30,720 --> 01:49:33,400
Speaker 1: sort of cringe when we hear it, because that term

1814
01:49:33,439 --> 01:49:38,599
Speaker 1: alone exists for the purposes of sanitizing the industry. Because

1815
01:49:38,640 --> 01:49:41,600
Speaker 1: when we start calling it what it is, which is

1816
01:49:41,960 --> 01:49:46,360
Speaker 1: monetized penetration, right, when we start calling it what it is,

1817
01:49:46,439 --> 01:49:50,040
Speaker 1: which is um paid rape, rape that you can pay

1818
01:49:50,080 --> 01:49:52,599
Speaker 1: for with a credit card, then people start to like,

1819
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:57,320
Speaker 1: you know, they take a step back, right, and UM,

1820
01:49:56,760 --> 01:50:00,519
Speaker 1: a brief history on that term itself. Off, it was

1821
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:05,760
Speaker 1: created by um, people who had interests in promoting prostitution

1822
01:50:06,040 --> 01:50:10,320
Speaker 1: because they were gaining, they were gaining economically from prostitution.

1823
01:50:10,400 --> 01:50:15,160
Speaker 1: In other words, literal sex traffickers created the word sex work.

1824
01:50:15,479 --> 01:50:18,040
Speaker 1: So that, right there is the first thing that you

1825
01:50:18,080 --> 01:50:21,040
Speaker 1: can do, because again, once we take that term away,

1826
01:50:21,400 --> 01:50:24,320
Speaker 1: we can start talking about it for what it is.

1827
01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:28,759
Speaker 1: And the other dangerous part about that term is because um,

1828
01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:31,400
Speaker 1: when we start talking about labor laws and we start

1829
01:50:31,439 --> 01:50:36,200
Speaker 1: talking about unionizing, um, those are all workers rights. So

1830
01:50:36,280 --> 01:50:40,080
Speaker 1: are we going to entertain the notion of unionizing brothels?

1831
01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:45,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely not, right, So that term invites a host of

1832
01:50:45,400 --> 01:50:47,920
Speaker 1: of things. It's like a giant can of worms that

1833
01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:50,320
Speaker 1: again we hear every single day, but have to like

1834
01:50:51,160 --> 01:50:55,880
Speaker 1: peacefully nu nuclear you know, UM, what's the word neutralized?

1835
01:50:56,120 --> 01:50:58,680
Speaker 1: So that we can continue and have an honest conversation,

1836
01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:03,120
Speaker 1: so that there is one place to start, all right,

1837
01:51:03,160 --> 01:51:04,960
Speaker 1: I think we can take one more question and then

1838
01:51:05,080 --> 01:51:09,000
Speaker 1: everyone will stick around and and you can have Yeah,

1839
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:11,760
Speaker 1: there's powerful people in this room. Minute. It's an election year,

1840
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:16,160
Speaker 1: so if you have a politician in your mix y,

1841
01:51:17,280 --> 01:51:23,240
Speaker 1: and local politics really matters in this is a sponsors, yeah,

1842
01:51:26,400 --> 01:51:30,640
Speaker 1: of the decriminalization bill. It's Dick Godfried, who's the assemblyman

1843
01:51:30,800 --> 01:51:34,800
Speaker 1: right here in Chelsea. It's Julius Salazar who is a

1844
01:51:34,960 --> 01:51:41,639
Speaker 1: young UM democratic socialist, progressive female, and Jessica Ramos. Um,

1845
01:51:41,680 --> 01:51:45,799
Speaker 1: they're both she's queens. Um, she's the senator and queens

1846
01:51:45,800 --> 01:51:50,559
Speaker 1: who's who support full decriminalization. Um. You guys may have followed,

1847
01:51:54,920 --> 01:51:59,920
Speaker 1: Can I can I say that Godfried quote? We were

1848
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:02,720
Speaker 1: at a meeting with the sponsors of this bill and

1849
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:08,000
Speaker 1: Dick Godfried, who um, who who authored it said, now

1850
01:52:08,120 --> 01:52:12,000
Speaker 1: say you have a white Hollywood exec and he's got

1851
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:16,160
Speaker 1: a black housekeeper and he asks her for sexual services. Um,

1852
01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:18,960
Speaker 1: what's the difference between that and cleaning his toilet when

1853
01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:22,360
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to do either? Yea, I could tell

1854
01:52:22,400 --> 01:52:29,760
Speaker 1: them the differences. So that was Dick Godfried and then um, Julia, No,

1855
01:52:29,840 --> 01:52:33,479
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Jessica Ramos, My favorite quote of my entire

1856
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:36,800
Speaker 1: life is um um. And you know it's going to

1857
01:52:36,880 --> 01:52:38,559
Speaker 1: be a bit vulgar, so pardon my French, but she

1858
01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:41,840
Speaker 1: said buying is legal and fucking is legal. So buying

1859
01:52:41,880 --> 01:52:44,839
Speaker 1: fucking should be legal. That was her logic to justify

1860
01:52:45,200 --> 01:52:49,360
Speaker 1: a legislation. Are elected folks here in New York, So

1861
01:52:49,439 --> 01:52:54,880
Speaker 1: think about that when you go to the polls. Yeah,

1862
01:52:54,920 --> 01:53:00,880
Speaker 1: what's his worst? And yeah, so so there was a

1863
01:53:01,000 --> 01:53:03,760
Speaker 1: you might have followed the Queen's District attorney's race, Um

1864
01:53:04,000 --> 01:53:07,040
Speaker 1: that that happened over the summer. Um, But there was

1865
01:53:07,080 --> 01:53:10,760
Speaker 1: a candidate who ran on a pro sex work platform

1866
01:53:10,880 --> 01:53:14,360
Speaker 1: completely without um really understanding the ramifications of what that

1867
01:53:14,400 --> 01:53:19,120
Speaker 1: would do to to queens in New York. So on.

1868
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:23,519
Speaker 1: The sponsors of our bill are tremain Right in the

1869
01:53:23,560 --> 01:53:28,080
Speaker 1: Assembly and Liz Krueger in the Senate. UM. Two incredibly

1870
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:31,640
Speaker 1: powerful women who are authoring our quality model legislation and

1871
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:41,640
Speaker 1: will help us get it hopefully get it through. Oh great, ye,

1872
01:53:43,240 --> 01:53:47,560
Speaker 1: so so our bill we're authoring, will hope to introduce

1873
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:50,840
Speaker 1: it in January, UM, when the session starts back up.

1874
01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:55,960
Speaker 1: So um, just look out for it, um, and again

1875
01:53:56,080 --> 01:53:58,400
Speaker 1: spread the word and educate. UM. If you happen to

1876
01:53:58,439 --> 01:54:00,599
Speaker 1: have any personal connections to any members of the New

1877
01:54:00,680 --> 01:54:08,400
Speaker 1: York State legislator, have these conversations. Um, yeah yeah, and

1878
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:12,360
Speaker 1: does um. So our bill actually moved quite farther. We

1879
01:54:12,479 --> 01:54:14,599
Speaker 1: just had a public hearing, which is the first step

1880
01:54:14,600 --> 01:54:18,400
Speaker 1: in the bill being like legitimized and taken seriously. Last week. UM.

1881
01:54:18,439 --> 01:54:23,439
Speaker 1: There were a hundred and seventy witnesses. It went fourteen hours. UM.

1882
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:26,120
Speaker 1: There was actually more people in support of the legislation

1883
01:54:26,160 --> 01:54:29,520
Speaker 1: than against. UM. But we you know, had a formidable

1884
01:54:29,560 --> 01:54:32,560
Speaker 1: force and many survivors of the sex trade came from

1885
01:54:32,600 --> 01:54:34,840
Speaker 1: all over the country, many of whom had been exploited

1886
01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:37,600
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. And you know, for folks that

1887
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:40,680
Speaker 1: for many years have been thinking this was a fringe movement.

1888
01:54:40,800 --> 01:54:43,200
Speaker 1: This you know, these bills had no chance of really

1889
01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:45,400
Speaker 1: moving forward. It's not just New York and d C.

1890
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:48,320
Speaker 1: They're being introduced in a number of different states. Again

1891
01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:51,520
Speaker 1: based on on the vagueness of the term sex work.

1892
01:54:51,600 --> 01:54:55,160
Speaker 1: People are. It's appealing to people's inherent understanding that the

1893
01:54:55,360 --> 01:54:59,080
Speaker 1: status quo isn't working. We shouldn't be punishing women in prostitution.

1894
01:54:59,160 --> 01:55:02,880
Speaker 1: They are vulnerable. UM. But what they actually do is

1895
01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:05,480
Speaker 1: go a lot lot further and and threatened to actually

1896
01:55:05,640 --> 01:55:08,000
Speaker 1: fuel more harm. UM one or the other. I think

1897
01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:10,080
Speaker 1: talking points that you'll hear, and we hear a lot

1898
01:55:10,080 --> 01:55:12,440
Speaker 1: in d C. As well. We're keeping all the laws

1899
01:55:12,440 --> 01:55:14,680
Speaker 1: on trafficking. Of course, we have horror trafficking, everyone of

1900
01:55:14,720 --> 01:55:18,520
Speaker 1: horse trafficking. We're just repealing the pimping and pandering statutes. Well,

1901
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:21,040
Speaker 1: the prosecutors and law enforcement in the room will tell

1902
01:55:21,080 --> 01:55:23,960
Speaker 1: you that's actually how the vast majority of trafficking cases

1903
01:55:24,000 --> 01:55:28,000
Speaker 1: are prosecuted. It's very difficult, um to bring an actual

1904
01:55:28,040 --> 01:55:30,920
Speaker 1: trafficking case, and so most of these cases are pled down,

1905
01:55:31,280 --> 01:55:33,360
Speaker 1: and so you know, you would be removing all these

1906
01:55:33,440 --> 01:55:35,400
Speaker 1: laws off the books. And you know, we give the

1907
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:38,879
Speaker 1: example of it's basically you know, repealing the laws against

1908
01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:42,960
Speaker 1: secondary murder, manslaughter, involuntary manstatter and saying but don't worry,

1909
01:55:42,960 --> 01:55:45,080
Speaker 1: we still have first degree murder. You know, these are

1910
01:55:45,120 --> 01:55:48,200
Speaker 1: lesser penalties for trafficking. It's really important that we retain

1911
01:55:48,280 --> 01:55:49,840
Speaker 1: them on the books. It's the same with the New

1912
01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:52,720
Speaker 1: York law. They say they're maintaining all aspects of the

1913
01:55:52,760 --> 01:55:56,960
Speaker 1: human trafficking laws, but they're repealing uh statue of promoting prostitution,

1914
01:55:57,040 --> 01:55:59,960
Speaker 1: which is pimping. And so if you don't have that process,

1915
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:03,960
Speaker 1: secuters have no leverage for any plea agreements. Um it

1916
01:56:04,360 --> 01:56:07,880
Speaker 1: forces them to put traumatized survivors and victims on the

1917
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:12,200
Speaker 1: stand to testify to their force broader coercion um, which

1918
01:56:12,200 --> 01:56:19,400
Speaker 1: prosecutors can't always do, so they are gutting human trafficking laws. Um.

1919
01:56:19,400 --> 01:56:21,720
Speaker 1: There's a petition about the d C bill that we

1920
01:56:21,760 --> 01:56:23,960
Speaker 1: can share. We can share with your social media team

1921
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:26,120
Speaker 1: and they can get it out. Um. Another thing you

1922
01:56:26,120 --> 01:56:28,400
Speaker 1: can do is, if you're part of the media, tell

1923
01:56:28,440 --> 01:56:31,440
Speaker 1: this story, because the media tells a very one sided

1924
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:36,400
Speaker 1: story of the white girl who went to Yale grad

1925
01:56:36,440 --> 01:56:39,120
Speaker 1: school and stripped to get her way through it and

1926
01:56:39,120 --> 01:56:41,880
Speaker 1: found it empowering. And that's what we hear, and we

1927
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:45,520
Speaker 1: don't hear this, and people need to know the truth. UM.

1928
01:56:45,560 --> 01:56:49,080
Speaker 1: So there are media connections in the room, use them

1929
01:56:49,120 --> 01:56:51,600
Speaker 1: and social media to Twitter, I mean, and all those

1930
01:56:51,600 --> 01:56:56,360
Speaker 1: Assembly members there on Twitter. Dick Godfried on Twitter. IM,

1931
01:56:57,160 --> 01:57:01,200
Speaker 1: I was one week ago on the DC hearing, and

1932
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:04,520
Speaker 1: the truth that I was sitting there for six hours

1933
01:57:05,400 --> 01:57:12,080
Speaker 1: m at the beginning, I was really mad. I was.

1934
01:57:12,760 --> 01:57:15,800
Speaker 1: It was a complex, It was a lot of feelings

1935
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:18,080
Speaker 1: and the truth is that I don't want that to

1936
01:57:18,160 --> 01:57:20,680
Speaker 1: happen here because what I was hearing over there, it

1937
01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:25,640
Speaker 1: was like most of the testimony, and we're about survival

1938
01:57:25,760 --> 01:57:30,600
Speaker 1: sex no choices, no opportunities, and we need to stand

1939
01:57:30,600 --> 01:57:33,040
Speaker 1: for this. So I invite you, every single one of you.

1940
01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:37,040
Speaker 1: If you hear somebody talking about food organization, like open

1941
01:57:37,120 --> 01:57:40,440
Speaker 1: that conversation, don't be afraid like support us. Also, we

1942
01:57:40,480 --> 01:57:42,880
Speaker 1: needed space to do more things like this. If you,

1943
01:57:43,000 --> 01:57:45,760
Speaker 1: if you can connect with Alexis so we are more

1944
01:57:45,760 --> 01:57:49,640
Speaker 1: than open to educate everyone and every single New York

1945
01:57:49,680 --> 01:57:53,040
Speaker 1: character because we don't I personally, I don't want to

1946
01:57:53,080 --> 01:57:58,000
Speaker 1: see what happened in d C one week ago being here,

1947
01:57:58,080 --> 01:58:05,320
Speaker 1: like protecting buyers and perpetuating this harm and this nonsense

1948
01:58:05,520 --> 01:58:11,360
Speaker 1: of that it's better to buy pleasure than to kill

1949
01:58:11,560 --> 01:58:14,560
Speaker 1: or harm a human beings. So please join this movement

1950
01:58:14,600 --> 01:58:16,960
Speaker 1: and support us in every single way that you can.

1951
01:58:17,600 --> 01:58:20,280
Speaker 1: Going with us, talk with us, like we are really

1952
01:58:20,320 --> 01:58:24,200
Speaker 1: open to educate every single one about this issue. Please

1953
01:58:24,440 --> 01:58:26,040
Speaker 1: let me just let me just say, because I know

1954
01:58:26,200 --> 01:58:29,280
Speaker 1: people I see we're trying to get out of here. Um.

1955
01:58:29,320 --> 01:58:31,320
Speaker 1: But I think it's also very important to note that

1956
01:58:31,360 --> 01:58:34,000
Speaker 1: you might also come across people who claim that they're

1957
01:58:34,080 --> 01:58:37,480
Speaker 1: consensual sex worker x y z um, but also recognize

1958
01:58:37,480 --> 01:58:40,040
Speaker 1: that a lot of them are still in trauma UM.

1959
01:58:40,080 --> 01:58:43,280
Speaker 1: And I can attest personally that while I when when

1960
01:58:43,280 --> 01:58:46,880
Speaker 1: you're in trauma, especially in prostitution, a lot of times

1961
01:58:46,920 --> 01:58:49,120
Speaker 1: you have to find a way to justify your trauma

1962
01:58:49,400 --> 01:58:51,240
Speaker 1: in order to get through it. And I remember a

1963
01:58:51,240 --> 01:58:52,640
Speaker 1: time when I was sixteen and I was in a

1964
01:58:52,680 --> 01:58:55,080
Speaker 1: life that I told myself that this was empowerment and

1965
01:58:55,120 --> 01:58:57,120
Speaker 1: liberations so that I can get through another sex buyer,

1966
01:58:57,480 --> 01:58:59,240
Speaker 1: so that I can continue to go to another hotel

1967
01:58:59,280 --> 01:59:00,879
Speaker 1: room and make sure that I can keep my sanity.

1968
01:59:01,160 --> 01:59:04,160
Speaker 1: So you might come across somebody who's chanting chanting, chanting

1969
01:59:04,160 --> 01:59:07,920
Speaker 1: consensuality UM, but still hasn't processed their own trauma. So

1970
01:59:08,040 --> 01:59:10,120
Speaker 1: don't just take the narrative at face value. I'd love

1971
01:59:10,160 --> 01:59:12,440
Speaker 1: to say that it's the same story, different narrative when

1972
01:59:12,440 --> 01:59:15,360
Speaker 1: it comes to both sides of the divide UM. So

1973
01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:18,160
Speaker 1: just recognize, going back to those ideas of systemic oppression,

1974
01:59:18,160 --> 01:59:21,600
Speaker 1: that we're all suffering the same UM traumas and abuses.

1975
01:59:21,640 --> 01:59:23,640
Speaker 1: One may have a pimp, one may not UM, but

1976
01:59:23,680 --> 01:59:25,720
Speaker 1: the oppressions are still the same. And a lot of

1977
01:59:25,760 --> 01:59:29,120
Speaker 1: people haven't fully grasped UM what their trauma looks like

1978
01:59:29,160 --> 01:59:31,360
Speaker 1: and where it comes from. So you might come across

1979
01:59:31,360 --> 01:59:33,520
Speaker 1: somebody that's like pro sex work, pro sex work, but

1980
01:59:33,560 --> 01:59:35,120
Speaker 1: if you actually talk to them when and want and

1981
01:59:35,160 --> 01:59:37,400
Speaker 1: ask them about well their day to day, you'll find

1982
01:59:37,400 --> 01:59:39,600
Speaker 1: out that many of those people that are chanting protect

1983
01:59:39,680 --> 01:59:42,200
Speaker 1: work have got into prostitution when they were under eighteen

1984
01:59:42,920 --> 01:59:45,880
Speaker 1: a lot of times because they were suffering of um,

1985
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:48,760
Speaker 1: suffering from the effects of systemic oppression. So just keep

1986
01:59:48,800 --> 01:59:51,480
Speaker 1: that in mind when you come across somebody who's holding

1987
01:59:51,080 --> 01:59:58,640
Speaker 1: a red umbrella and saying that this is work. This

1988
01:59:58,720 --> 02:00:02,520
Speaker 1: show is executive produced by me Sophia Bush and sim Sarna.

1989
02:00:03,120 --> 02:00:07,200
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Alison Bresnick. Our associate producer is

1990
02:00:07,280 --> 02:00:11,200
Speaker 1: Cate Linley, Our editor is Josh Wendish, and our music

1991
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:13,760
Speaker 1: was written by Jack Garrett and produced by Mark Foster.

1992
02:00:14,520 --> 02:00:17,040
Speaker 1: This show is brought to you by Kabrilliant Anatomy Fast