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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grece Brian Coburger. It never is

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Speaker 1: with this guy. In the last hours we learn more

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Speaker 1: and more, but what information can be trusted? I mean,

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Speaker 1: see Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with

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Speaker 1: us here at Fox Nation in series six one eleven.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this.

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Speaker 2: A new report says two surviving housemates in the Moscow, Idaho,

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Speaker 2: rental home where four students were killed were awake and

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Speaker 2: texting each other while the murders were taking place. The

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Speaker 2: new information comes from airmail dot Com. The lengthy article

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Speaker 2: attributes the information to someone on the grand jury which

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Speaker 2: indicted Brian Coburger. The information was allegedly leaked to Kayleie

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Speaker 2: Gonsalvez's father, Steve. Neither Gonzalves nor his attorney have commented

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Speaker 2: or confirmed the information in the article. There is currently

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Speaker 2: a restrictive gag order in place on the case. A

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Speaker 2: statement released by the family, however, calls the claims a

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Speaker 2: very poor attempt at getting attention and obviously fictional.

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Speaker 1: What if anything, does it mean with me? An all

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Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of what we know right now?

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Speaker 1: But that's the tip of the iceberg of what we

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Speaker 1: are learning straight out to Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and start

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Speaker 1: of hitting new series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, thank you for being with us. Joe Scott.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to make sense of the evidence we're hearing

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Speaker 1: now now according to this leak. I'm always suspicious of

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Speaker 1: a leak, but it apparently came from a grand jurrr

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Speaker 1: that heard all sorts of evidence vidits we are not

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Speaker 1: privy to, and the victor's parents are not privy to

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Speaker 1: it now. Granted they know a lot more than we know,

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Speaker 1: But trying to make sense of this because it doesn't

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Speaker 1: quite jive with what we've been told. One of the

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Speaker 1: surviving victims said that she woke up in the night. Actually,

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Speaker 1: let's hear it, Joe Scott and the New Analyze take

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Speaker 1: a listen to hour cut five six seven.

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Speaker 2: We do know at least one of the surviving roommates

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Speaker 2: reported seeing something suspicious to the police. Court documents detail

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Speaker 2: what the roommate reportedly heard and saw. The roommate was

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Speaker 2: on the second floor of the three story house. She

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Speaker 2: told police that she woke up around four am hearing

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Speaker 2: noises above her, thinking Gonzalvez was playing with the dog.

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Speaker 2: According to the probable cause affidavit, the roommate thought she

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Speaker 2: heard Gonsalvas say there's someone here. She looked out but

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Speaker 2: didn't see anything. The roommate also reported she heard crying

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Speaker 2: from Xana Pernodle's room and then heard a male saying

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Speaker 2: it's okay, I'm going to help you. When she opened

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Speaker 2: her door a third time, she saw a masked man leaving.

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Speaker 2: He was dressed in dark clothing and had bushy eyebrows,

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Speaker 2: and he left through the sliding rear door. She described

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Speaker 2: him to police as not very muscular, but athletically built.

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Speaker 1: Jo Scott what we're hearing right now claims that the

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Speaker 1: surviving roommates were actually texting each other during the attacks.

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Speaker 1: Does it jive with what we already know?

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Speaker 3: I don't necessarily think that it does, Nancy, because if

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Speaker 3: that's the case, if they were texting back and forth,

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Speaker 3: and you've got all of this cross noise is what

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Speaker 3: I'll call it, because we haven't really been able to

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Speaker 3: kind of peg it down, have we, relative to what

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Speaker 3: they were saying. You know, we hear this idea that

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Speaker 3: she thought that she heard the dog being played with okay,

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Speaker 3: and that that was the rumpus upstairs, and then she

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Speaker 3: hears the crime and the person saying it's okay, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to help you. There's nothing here of substance. You

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Speaker 3: know where we can actually hang our hat on intellectually

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Speaker 3: where we're talking about them texting back and forth. You know,

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Speaker 3: how does this information come out? And my experience relative

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Speaker 3: to grand jury h information is they can if information

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Speaker 3: is leaked out like this, they can have your guts

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Speaker 3: for garters at that point in time, it doesn't make

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Speaker 3: sense to me.

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Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you right now. And Tara Malik,

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Speaker 1: I think, is going to agree with me. She is

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Speaker 1: high profile lawyer named partner Smith and Mallet, former state

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Speaker 1: federal prosecutor. Tara, thank you for being with us. No

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Speaker 1: grand gurr is going to be dragged into court and questioned, hey,

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Speaker 1: did you tell your husband about this and then he

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Speaker 1: blabbed it at work. That's not going to happen if

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Speaker 1: this came from a grand your and for those of

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Speaker 1: you just joining us, what we're talking about is actually crucial.

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Speaker 1: If it's true or not true, No grandeur is going

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Speaker 1: to get in trouble now. If it was a lawyer

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Speaker 1: or a witness, say a blabbing out of school, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there could be sanctions. But Tara, I had an eighty

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Speaker 1: seven year old judge. He was a fantastic judge too.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you Luther Roberson sharp as attack. He

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Speaker 1: would always tell jurrrs it is your duty to make

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Speaker 1: all witnesses speak the truth and impune perjury upon no one.

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Speaker 1: What that means and regular people taught is maybe that

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Speaker 1: report is true, and what the victims' families are saying

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Speaker 1: is true, and they say that's not what happened. Because Tara,

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Speaker 1: what about the theory that they were texting as they

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Speaker 1: were going to bed just before, like minutes before the attacks.

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Speaker 4: I agree with you.

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Speaker 5: One hundred percent, Nancy. I think you know there's going

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Speaker 5: to be I would highly doubt that there would be

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Speaker 5: any sort of repercussion into a grandeur who makes a

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Speaker 5: comment to off hand comment to a husband or spouse

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Speaker 5: or whomever. The bigger issue to me is this allegation

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Speaker 5: that one of the fathers the victims may have somehow

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Speaker 5: contacted this grandeur. I think god could be very problematic

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Speaker 5: as far as from an EVIDENTI or a standpoint. You know,

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Speaker 5: if there were text messages being exchanged by surviving roommates

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Speaker 5: during the course of the murders, that information would be

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Speaker 5: highly critical for I think both sides. I could have

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Speaker 5: the tendency of corroborating the timeline that the prosecution is

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Speaker 5: trying to put together and piecing together through other pieces

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Speaker 5: of information and evidence like the phone pings and you know,

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Speaker 5: some of the observations and where this car may have traveled,

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Speaker 5: and trying to put coburger there. If there were other

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Speaker 5: descriptions of the person who was committing the murders, other

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Speaker 5: statements that were being made, and all of that would

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Speaker 5: come in because if they are texting contemporaneously, so at

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Speaker 5: the same time that these events are going on, all

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Speaker 5: that evidence would be admissible at the time of trial.

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Speaker 1: I was just having a hard time reconciling it, and

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Speaker 1: I normally try to reconcile. I mean, back to you, Joe,

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, hold on to Cole Parton. I'm coming right

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Speaker 1: to you. Just start Morgan. How many nights I mean

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Speaker 1: midnight or early morning before I would go to court,

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Speaker 1: but I go back to a crime scene to try

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Speaker 1: to reconcile what witnesses were saying, and guess what. Most

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Speaker 1: of the time I could reconcile it. For instance, one

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Speaker 1: witness was saying, I couldn't see a thing, and the

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Speaker 1: other witnesses saw everything was four feet away. Guess what.

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Speaker 1: There was a giant bush, giant ten feet tall beside

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Speaker 1: the home where that murder occurred. And it occurred outside

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Speaker 1: beside another tree. So one wines didn't see anything, and

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Speaker 1: the other witness saw everything. And when I figured that out,

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Speaker 1: I get to take a picture and get it corroborated

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Speaker 1: on the stand and give it to the jury to

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Speaker 1: explain the discrepancy and the witness's statements that happened not

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Speaker 1: with a tree, but with many other factual issues Joe

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, where both parties were speaking the truth, their truth,

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Speaker 1: the truth as they saw it. So I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: find a way to reconcile this. And I think it

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Speaker 1: was mister Gonsolves said this did not happen. A grandeur

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Speaker 1: did not say that, but apparently a grandeuror said something

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Speaker 1: like that. So I'm trying to reconcile is it true?

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Speaker 1: But I'm very curious when it comes so suspicious, when

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Speaker 1: it comes to unnamed sources. Gonsolvas isn't worried to go

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Speaker 1: out there and go this is what I know. But

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Speaker 1: somebody that keeps their identity shrouded, I don't know who

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Speaker 1: that source is. Why don't they want us to know

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Speaker 1: the truth so we can question them? I find that

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Speaker 1: a little sus Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I do too. And one of the things that makes

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Speaker 3: me think of is that somebody's trying to bait for

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Speaker 3: more information to be drawn. You know, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: show that. Listen, this case has been so shrouded relative

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Speaker 3: to what has been revealed up to this point, as

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Speaker 3: well it should be. And I know that you appreciate

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Speaker 3: that as an investor, As an investigator slash prosecutor, I do.

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Speaker 3: We don't need all of this data floating around out there.

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Speaker 1: Ohose, your horse is big man? You know why? True?

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Speaker 1: The state has to hand over basically their whole file

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Speaker 1: to the defense. Fine, So I know US Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: ruling Brady Maryland. Fine, but do I have to tell

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Speaker 1: them my trial strategy? No? I don't and wouldn't. So

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Speaker 1: you're so right, Joe Scott Morgan. You know when you

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Speaker 1: into court you don't want the other side to have

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Speaker 1: your playbook, because you don't have theirs, and you've got

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Speaker 1: to do what's best for your case and to get

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Speaker 1: a true verdict. So you're right, you don't want things

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Speaker 1: floating around out there. And I'm very I'm also curious,

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Speaker 1: Karen Start, renowned psychologists joining me out of Manhattan, why

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Speaker 1: someone would leak something that wasn't true, because it just

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Speaker 1: causes heartache for the family. Guys, for those of you

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Speaker 1: just joining us. A new report in the Coburger prosecution

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Speaker 1: that the two surviving roommates let's see their names, Nicole

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Speaker 1: Parton joining me crime online dot Com investigative reporter, the

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Speaker 1: two survivors, Nicole, they're not commenting on this at all,

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Speaker 1: are they.

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Speaker 6: They are not They're not commenting at all. And you

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Speaker 6: know that the timeline of what's being leaked doesn't line up.

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Speaker 6: We know that one survivor says, I woke up around

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Speaker 6: four and thought I heard something. I thought it was

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Speaker 6: Kayley and the dog. Now this leaked report is saying

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Speaker 6: that the girls were awake. The survivors were all awake

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Speaker 6: four four thirty, and they were texting each other. So

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Speaker 6: none of it is consistent with the original reports that

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Speaker 6: came out as far as what the survivors heard.

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Speaker 1: Hey Jo Scott, before you want run run to your class,

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear this. We'll circle back to

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Speaker 1: whether that's true or not. But I have fate that

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Speaker 1: gonsolve this is telling the truth as he knows it.

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Speaker 1: More may come out at trial and maybe he's wrong

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Speaker 1: in the end, but I think he's selling the truth

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Speaker 1: as he knows it on the facts he's being given.

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Speaker 1: But now we're finding out that the state wants a

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Speaker 1: lot more from Amazon, and not just the Christmas list.

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Speaker 1: Take a listening five seven seven kre em.

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Speaker 7: Newly released court documents are revealing that police in the

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Speaker 7: Moscow murders case are asking for information from several big

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Speaker 7: tech companies the search warrants we're obtained over the summer,

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Speaker 7: and are asking for the suspect in this case, Brian

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Speaker 7: Coberger's customer information on Amazon, Apple, and PayPal. Prosecutors are

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Speaker 7: asking for Amazon for their information to see if Coburger

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Speaker 7: bought feud or was recommended any knives on their website.

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Speaker 7: Police believe that a specific type of knife was used

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Speaker 7: to commit the murders. A knife sheath with Coburger's DNA

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Speaker 7: was found at the crime scene, but the murder weapon

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Speaker 7: itself has still not been found.

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Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace. You know what's interesting right there,

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Speaker 1: and Joe Scott, I'm going to get into it with

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Speaker 1: you about why the knife knife sheath is so important.

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Speaker 1: They also want all of his clicks, all of his clicks.

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Speaker 1: You know how I love going through defenise google searches,

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Speaker 1: not just their Google searches, but everything they served. I

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Speaker 1: want to find out what they're ordering, what they're watching,

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Speaker 1: what they're reading, what they're interested in, because it's you know,

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Speaker 1: the eyes are the window to the soul. Bs I say,

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Speaker 1: your search history is the window to your soul, what

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Speaker 1: you're interested in. Yeah, I swear there's something like that

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Speaker 1: in the Bible that where your thoughts are, where your

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Speaker 1: heart is, so are your actions? Right. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: find out everything I can about Coburger and the clicks,

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Speaker 1: the Amazon clicks. How many dozens of knives do you

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Speaker 1: think he looked at before he ordered that one? And

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Speaker 1: did the sheath come with it? Was this separate? Because

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Speaker 1: you know he's pretty anal right, Joe Scott, what am

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Speaker 1: I going to learn in all those clicks?

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Speaker 3: The narrowing of a search, just like we do if

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Speaker 3: we're working a case. He's looking for something specifically. And

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Speaker 3: let me lay this on you, my wife, Kim.

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Speaker 1: You know you can thank her for everything to come

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Speaker 1: by the way I.

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Speaker 3: Know, and God, God bless her for putting up with me,

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Speaker 3: I said, I said, Darling, I want one of these knives.

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Speaker 3: She said, done. Guess what. She went to Amazon. I

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Speaker 3: had it in a day and a half.

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Speaker 1: Why do you want one of those knives so you

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Speaker 1: can examine it?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I do, and I have it. And what I

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Speaker 3: wanted was the knife so I could appreciate I appreciate

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Speaker 3: the weight I've held. This is a Cabar knife and

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Speaker 3: it's specifically a us MC.

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Speaker 1: Guess what one of those knives so I can look

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Speaker 1: at it. I was going to spring it on you.

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Speaker 3: Later, but darn, I didn't mean to bury the lead

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Speaker 3: you to.

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Speaker 8: Lawns.

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Speaker 9: Go ahead, knife, I'm going to check the searches of both.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to feel the weight of it. I did,

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Speaker 3: and and but handle well. I wanted to understand the

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Speaker 3: functionality of the sheath. And there's something I learned from

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Speaker 3: the sheath, Nancy, because a lot of has been made

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Speaker 3: over this, the fact that it's found in the bed.

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Speaker 3: You've got this DNA that's adjacent to the snap. We

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Speaker 3: don't know specifically where on the snap. I have my

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Speaker 3: suspicions about it.

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Speaker 1: Oh whoa, you just can't drop a bomb like that

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Speaker 1: on I have my suspicions. I think that the DNA

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Speaker 1: was right where. Imagine a snap and you push it,

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Speaker 1: yes and open it, That's obviously where the DNA is

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Speaker 1: going to be.

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Speaker 3: I think the opening part is the most significant because

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Speaker 3: on the under the underside of the button, it's got

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Speaker 3: an edge there, and I think that as you move

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Speaker 3: that button, you click it and it makes a distinctive pop, Nancy,

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Speaker 3: it could break off skin cells right there. I think

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Speaker 3: that this is probably touched DNA. But what's more important

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Speaker 3: to me, what tells us, what really gives us an

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Speaker 3: insight into this case, Nancy, is that this sheath comes

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Speaker 3: equipped with a belt holder. And why that is important

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Speaker 3: is the fact that if you're so prepared, you thought

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Speaker 3: this thing out, this massacre.

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Speaker 1: Well, he bought it seven months ahead of time, so

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Speaker 1: he was thinking about something he didn't need that teaching

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Speaker 1: his classes.

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Speaker 3: Why in the hell don't you have a belt on.

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Speaker 3: Why don't you have a belt on that secures this knife?

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Speaker 3: Why is it that you have left the sheath there

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Speaker 3: at the scene. Maybe you've prepped. We've heard he's dressed

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Speaker 3: all in black. Did you not have the ability to

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Speaker 3: put on a belt? Are you wearing something that doesn't

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Speaker 3: have belt loops, like a pair of pants. Are you

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Speaker 3: wearing coveralls?

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Speaker 1: What if he had it on the loop of the

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Speaker 1: pants and it came disattached.

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Speaker 3: It could have been. And we don't know anything about

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Speaker 3: the nature of the sheees either, you know, like, is

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Speaker 3: the loop the attachment loop on the sheet itself? Is it?

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Speaker 3: Is it compromise structurally in some way? Has it been

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Speaker 3: torn or broken? We don't know that. But I think

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Speaker 3: that it's a reasonable question to say, why don't you

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Speaker 3: have this thing secured on your belt? I was in

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Speaker 3: the military. I had a knife in the military. It

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Speaker 3: was always secured on my person. I'd get my butt

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Speaker 3: shewed out if I did. Why. And they're made that way,

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Speaker 3: and k bars are made that way. Marine Corps carried

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Speaker 3: them for years and years. They are made to be

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Speaker 3: secured on your person. That sheet was not. It was

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Speaker 3: found at the scene, and you have to.

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Speaker 1: Think about going into battle like a marine. They don't

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Speaker 1: want their hands fuls. First thing I learned walking through

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Speaker 1: the projects trying to find witnesses walking in downtown inner

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Speaker 1: city Atlanta. You want your hands free. You don't want

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Speaker 1: you holding your pocketbook or holding your No, just like

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Speaker 1: this scenario, you need the knife attached to you if

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Speaker 1: you're going into battle. I can just see him doing that.

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Speaker 1: Why would he walk into this home holding the knife,

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Speaker 1: holding the sheath? You're right, You're absolutely right. But I

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Speaker 1: believe that you were not responsive because my question was

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Speaker 1: about the clicks. I thoroughly enjoyed your conversation about the

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Speaker 1: belt loop. But can we get back to what we

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Speaker 1: can learn from the cliques? Because Aaron start joining me,

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Speaker 1: psychologist joining us out of New York TV radio, trauma

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Speaker 1: expert at Karenstark dot com, Karen with a See, Karen,

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Speaker 1: this guy is so anal. What are we going to

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Speaker 1: learn from all those cliques? We're going to learn so much?

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Speaker 9: Well, because he's so, he's anal. He's organized and obsessed, right, Nancy,

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Speaker 9: So he's looking at knives. I wouldn't be shocked if

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Speaker 9: he wasn't looking at all different types of knives and

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Speaker 9: which would be the best one to use. And maybe

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Speaker 9: he's even looking at what he's going to wear, So

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Speaker 9: he's looking at clothing that's black because support he's been reported.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what is that? Everyone dresses up like a ninja.

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Speaker 1: They've seen way too many action movies. Go ahead, Karen Stark.

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Speaker 9: They want to they want to blend into the night, right.

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Speaker 9: I mean this this was we're laughing, but this for

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Speaker 9: him was a project and a really big deal.

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Speaker 1: I'm not laughing, Yeah, I mean, well it's so so.

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Speaker 9: The truth is, there's so much to be gained from

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Speaker 9: the clicks, right, because whether it's the clothing, whether it's

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Speaker 9: the knife, whether it's the shoes he's going to wear.

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Speaker 9: He thought about every single one of these things. This

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Speaker 9: is an intense guy who planned this out very carefully.

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Speaker 9: Think of how quickly he did it.

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Speaker 1: Right, he really did. And this knife and knife sheath

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Speaker 1: is Joe Scott Morgan and I were just talking about

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Speaker 1: We're purchased seven months prior. I want to go to

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna. You know him well from his YouTube channel

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Speaker 1: The Interview Room, but he is the director at the

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Speaker 1: Cold Case Foundation. Former homicide detective Over three hundred investigations

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Speaker 1: under his belt. You can also find him at cold

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Speaker 1: Casefoundation dot org. Chris, can we just talk about the clicks?

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Speaker 1: What would you expect to find? Because you heard the

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Speaker 1: Knees report from our forensic kr E M. The search

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Speaker 1: warrants were obtained over the summer. They want all the

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Speaker 1: customer information on Amazon, Apple and PayPal, so apparently that's

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Speaker 1: what they found on his phone. They don't want just

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Speaker 1: what he ordered, but they want all of his clicks,

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Speaker 1: everything he did. Now, the knife is obviously super important.

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Speaker 1: Anything we can find about his searching for a particular

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Speaker 1: kind of knife. Why take a listen to our friends

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Speaker 1: at Daily Mail.

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Speaker 10: The knife sheath was also dropped to the right of

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Speaker 10: Mattie's body, with the killer's DNA on the snap.

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Speaker 1: That always felt to me like this is where the

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Speaker 1: murders began.

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Speaker 10: That the killer snuck in, unsnapped the sheath and pulled

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Speaker 10: the knife out for the first time, dropping the sheath

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Speaker 10: in the process, effectively marking his start point. Now, the

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Speaker 10: sheath was discovered by investigators on the mattress partially underneath

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Speaker 10: of Mattie's body, So I really do think he dropped

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Speaker 10: it right when he hand sheath the knife for the

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Speaker 10: first time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Caitlin Becker. She's absolutely right. So Chris McDonough

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Speaker 1: joining us from the interview room, what are we going

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Speaker 1: to learn in those clicks?

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Speaker 4: See, every one of those cliques individually will reveal thoughts, feelings,

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Speaker 4: and emotions, and that will turn possibilities into probabilities.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean, how can a click on Amazon

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Speaker 1: or PayPal reveal your thoughts, feelings, and emotions.

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Speaker 4: Because that's really the definition of behavior. And so by

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Speaker 4: engineering or reverse engineering all of that movement that Coburger

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Speaker 4: was making pre incident by killing these college students here,

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Speaker 4: it gives us an insight into where he was going

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Speaker 4: and how he was going to get there. And that

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Speaker 4: is extremely important not only for the trial coming up,

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Speaker 4: as you know more than anybody, but also for the

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Speaker 4: investigators to continue to move this investigation forward. I think

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Speaker 4: we forget this investigation is still moving. I don't think

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Speaker 4: they have all of all the eggs in the basket yet.

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Speaker 4: This is a good example of listening to this analysis

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Speaker 4: in this panel.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it is amazing.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, we know, Chris, they do

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Speaker 1: have more information. We're on the outside looking in. Joe

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Speaker 1: Scott was saying this earlier, and he's right. The state

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Speaker 1: or the defense has no duty to tell us anything.

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Speaker 1: They're working in their cases, or at least they'd better

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Speaker 1: be working their cases. But I like what you just said,

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonod, that every clique shows your thoughts, your feelings

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Speaker 1: and your emotions. When you first said that, I thought,

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Speaker 1: no way, because if you look at what I do

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Speaker 1: online Instacart, green vegetables, this, that Amazon sucks for John David,

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Speaker 1: a sweatshirt of this, that it's the same thing over

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Speaker 1: and over every day. But that does reveal my thoughts,

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Speaker 1: my feelings and my emotions. I'm one of those people

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Speaker 1: that believe if you want to be close to your children,

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Speaker 1: make it high and what brings people together better than

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Speaker 1: a good supper. Nothing. So that's my time and I

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Speaker 1: plan it, and that's where my feelings and my thoughts

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Speaker 1: and my emotions are when I'm not working a case

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Speaker 1: like this. So what you just said is actually really revealing.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking about Jackie. What was the

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Speaker 1: name of the lady first named Anne with an E,

400
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Speaker 1: New England. The husband said she was leaving for the airport. Yes, Anna, Anna, Ana, Yes,

401
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Speaker 1: do you remember him? Just gave myself chills? Do you

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Speaker 1: remember his searches? There are enough? See you're laughing. It

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Speaker 1: actually makes my stomach hurt. How long does it take?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 1: How long will the dead body smell? How do I

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Speaker 1: do this? How do I do that? Is there evidence

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Speaker 1: somebody goes to the airport? Is there evidence somebody gets

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Speaker 1: on a plane? Or does I mean revealed everything? And

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Speaker 1: with me right now to speak to this issue. A

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Speaker 1: name you know or should know well, Lee Reeber, mobile

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Speaker 1: device forensic expert CEO Washington forensics author, Mobile Forensic Investigations,

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Speaker 1: Mobile Forensic Investigations. That's a book, Lee Reaber.

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Speaker 4: Hey, everybody loves.

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Speaker 1: And is that a book? You wrote a book, Mobile

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Speaker 1: Forensic Investigations.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, a couple of books.

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Speaker 1: I've got to read this. You know a lot of

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Speaker 1: people want to read the top the bestseller list off

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Speaker 1: the New York Times. I want to read Mobile Forensic Investigations.

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Speaker 1: Oh and your host to a podcast, Forensic Happy Hour, Boy,

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Speaker 1: you're busy. Thank you for making time with us for us.

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Speaker 1: Lee Reaber, explain to me how this is happening and

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Speaker 1: the significance of these searches and what else where you

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Speaker 1: think we're going.

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Speaker 4: To find No, I think I think the digital footprint

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Speaker 4: this is going to be huge for this case.

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Speaker 1: Now, remember you're speaking to a bunch of ludites like me.

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Speaker 1: Slow down, man, exactly.

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Speaker 4: So you know people people today, right, the searches that

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Speaker 4: they use. I love the you know, trying to and

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Speaker 4: I suffer for your kids, But you know people, and

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Speaker 4: you start thinking about your own searches on either Amazon

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Speaker 4: or any search engine.

434
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: Oh my stars, I looked at my husband's searches. It

435
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: was horrible. My eyes started bleeding. It's all about mergers

436
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: and acquisitions and business stories out of the Wall Street Journal.

437
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 1: I nearly fell over. I'm not going to do that

438
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: again for a while. Go ahead.

439
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 4: But what's important as well is if we look back

440
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 4: at those text messages you know that allegedly you know,

441
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 4: during the during the crime, right, that they had between

442
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 4: the two roommates. What's important to that is you look

443
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 4: at now a timeline.

444
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not accepting that. Number one. I'm not saying

445
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: that those texts men just happened during the attacks. I'm

446
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: saying somebody reported that the and the father said that

447
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: didn't happen.

448
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 4: What I'm saying is we need to take those along

449
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 4: with think about the impertainment center that's within a car.

450
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 4: Yeah right, that cars has an aoundational system and it's

451
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,719
Speaker 4: built within it. Even if you're not going and navigating

452
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 4: to a point, it's still tracking your location. It's still

453
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 4: showing where you're at. He allegedly, you know, turned his

454
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 4: phone off. Well, you can't turn the car off.

455
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: Oh hold on, hold on, just while you're let me

456
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: follow up point you're saying, Nicole, partner with me Clime

457
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter Nicole. While you're sitting there,

458
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: can you find out if his Alantra I think I

459
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: know that make and model the year. I'm thinking it

460
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: was a twenty one. But that said, can you see, Nicole,

461
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: if it had a NAV system. You may already know that.

462
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: Knowing you, you do. But while Lee Reber is talking,

463
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: can you look that up? Please? Okay, Lee Reber go ahead?

464
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, going back to you, in twenty eleven, Hundai

465
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 4: had a NAV system that was still Withinnish.

466
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 3: Both of those cars come with this.

467
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 4: I'm not quite sure on the year of what he had. However,

468
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 4: you know, looking at that information, and now the defense

469
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 4: is saying, well, he took lots of night tribes, you know,

470
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 4: trying to do that. Well, I think you'll be able

471
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 4: to tell that within that impertainment center. And I am assuming.

472
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: Okay, well say you're you're I'm drinking from the water hydrant.

473
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: The fire hydrant again is too much, too fast weight?

474
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: You're right, you know, do you know, Lee Reeber? What

475
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: was my next topic of discussion, which, of course my

476
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: little map I make out for our discussions. We never

477
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: stick to that. But what about his alibi? How can

478
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: we prove didn't we talk about that right before?

479
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 5: You there?

480
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: Prove or disprove his alibi? And you're so right, why

481
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: didn't we think of that? You know what? Brilliant? Brilliant?

482
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: So if the Alantros have had nav system since two

483
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: thousand and eleven, we're totally if they keep the information

484
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: going back that far, we can look at it and

485
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: find out if that's true as the claiment always went

486
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: by himself. Lee, ybro, that's convenient. You're absolutely right, Okay,

487
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: go ahead.

488
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a computer system, you know, able to remove that.

489
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 4: There's plenty of forensic software that allows the ability to

490
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 4: investigate that data.

491
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 8: And we haven't even.

492
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 4: Talked about as well. There's a ring camera that was

493
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 4: able to capture something across from across the street in

494
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 4: initial report. So you know, now you have searches, you

495
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 4: have traveled with a vehicle, you have text messages that

496
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 4: might have been occurring at that time. I think again

497
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 4: now taking the digital life right, a digital footprint of

498
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 4: an individual or the individuals and victims and those survivors,

499
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 4: I think there's a ton of data that's going to

500
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: come up.

501
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: A trail.

502
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace, Tara Malik partner and Smith

503
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: and Malick high profile lawyer joining us out of this jurisdiction.

504
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: When you try a case, I don't know if you

505
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: were like me, I had to quote marshal my evidence.

506
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: I had to figure out what exhibit goes with this question?

507
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: What do I have to prove this point? What do

508
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: I have to prove this point? Be it eyewitness testimony,

509
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: a fingerprint and a hair or whatever. You have to

510
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: marshal your evidence if you want to win that hour amount.

511
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: If not, you can just go and WILLI neillion. But

512
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: one I don't think a lot of people have picked

513
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: up on he said, the Alantra dating back to twenty

514
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: eleven has an as system. So this alibi, that an

515
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: Tayler the defense law your eyes cooked up and thrown

516
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: at us. That can be proven or disproven very easily.

517
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean, and I agree with you.

518
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 5: I mean, when you're putting a case together for trial,

519
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 5: you don't want to take the shotgun approach, just going

520
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 5: in there and asking a bunch of, you know, random questions.

521
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: And I once, I once worked for a.

522
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 5: Judge who called it the Christopher Columbus approach.

523
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: To trial, which is you get.

524
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 5: You get out of the you know, council's table, you

525
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 5: walk towards the witness, you ask a bunch of questions,

526
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 5: and you sit back down again. You don't know where

527
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 5: you've been, and you don't know where you ended up

528
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 5: and where you're going, and.

529
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: You accidentally landed on America looking for a trade route.

530
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 5: That's right, don't do that.

531
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 4: And so you're right.

532
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 5: You have to organize your evidence in a way under

533
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 5: each of the elements that you have to prove, and

534
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 5: how you do that, you know, there's a variety of

535
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 5: different ways. But but you know, Lee is right. I mean,

536
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 5: there's there's a lot of ways that this alibi could

537
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 5: be disproved, including you the navigation system. And and that's

538
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 5: the reason why, you know, the law requires you, when

539
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 5: you're going to claim an alibi, to provide enough information

540
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 5: where it gives the other side, where it gives the

541
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 5: prosecution the ability to figure out what they need or

542
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 5: what they don't need to either confirm that that alibi

543
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 5: in fact is true or to disprove it because we

544
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 5: don't do you know, guerrilla warfare in trial. It's not

545
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 5: trial by surprise here. And the fact that the you know,

546
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 5: it took so much to get the defense to even

547
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 5: provide and meet the requirements of providing an alibi, you know,

548
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 5: to me means that you know there's something fishy going

549
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 5: on here.

550
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: Well, there's another thing, Nicole Parton joining me Crime online

551
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter. Isn't it true that the state

552
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: has already nailed down co worker's payings from his phone

553
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: the night of the murders. If they could do that,

554
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: couldn't they ping all the other nights he claims he

555
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: was out on night drives?

556
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 6: Absolutely, they have already, they claim they have already pinged

557
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 6: those they know exactly where he was, and you're absolutely right.

558
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 6: Even on the base model of his car, that GPS

559
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 6: system is always engaged, so wherever he was supposedly driving around,

560
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 6: we can see that right on the car.

561
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking everything through. What Oh, here's another thing.

562
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: There's not a thing coburger can do about getting all

563
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: that information from Amazon and PayPal and Apple pay There's

564
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: no way they're going to be able to suppress it.

565
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: Why take a listen to our friend Jules Epstein, Temple

566
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: law professor.

567
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 8: I should add here, nobody has a right to object

568
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 8: to a certain warrant directed to Amazon. We don't own

569
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 8: that private information. Under the United States Supreme Court case law,

570
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 8: when you give information to a third party, you share

571
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 8: your credit card, you make purchases, and they keep that information.

572
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 8: It's not yours. And so there is no absolute privacy

573
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 8: interest where you can say, hey, my rights were violated

574
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 8: when you search my Amazon account.

575
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: It's just not that there's no standing. For instance, say

576
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: a cop goes and breaks down Jackie's front door and

577
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: finds her potstash. FYI, she doesn't smoke pot. I can't

578
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: go into court and go I want that's the president

579
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: of the Fourth Amendment you'd have a warrant. I don't

580
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: have what we call it standing, in other words, no

581
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: leg to stand on. It's not my place. They wrote

582
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: down the door to same thing here with Amazon. There's

583
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: no way, there's no complaint that he can make that

584
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: any of that evidence, whatever it may be, can be suppressed.

585
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: So we're not going to get an argument out of that.

586
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: The trial date of October two obviously has come and gone.

587
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: So what are we going to do now? When will

588
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: it go to trial? I believe that a lot of

589
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: electronic evidence is still being amassed, and while they are

590
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: gathering that evidence, we have recently heard from Stacy Chapin.

591
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:40,959
Speaker 1: This is Ethan's mother.

592
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 11: Listen, my name is Stacy Chapin, and I'm Ethan's mom.

593
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 11: And I actually didn't sit through it because it's too

594
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 11: hard to watch. But I do want all of you

595
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 11: to know that these were four of the greatest kids,

596
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 11: and that all of the great things you read about

597
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 11: them is legitimately true.

598
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 3: And I can.

599
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 12: Speak on behalf of my own son, who was an

600
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 12: incredible human. Can we miss them a little terribly? But

601
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 12: it's a very strange situation to be I'm not actually

602
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 12: not a true crime follower, but I am now thrust

603
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 12: into that a center of something that has become pretty incredible.

604
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 12: But anyways, don't forget these kids.

605
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate.

606
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 12: I did watch the beginning where you spoke a little

607
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 12: bit on behalf of all four kids, and they truly

608
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 12: they're amazing. They were amazing, amazing kids in the prime

609
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 12: of their life.

610
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 3: So that's all I just setting.

611
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: I'm at Stacy at crime con and what lovely, warm, brilliant,

612
00:35:52,920 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: articulate person. Still struggling, still making how but remember she

613
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 1: has other children and she's trying to be strong for them.

614
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: Nicole Parton joining me crime online dot Com investigative reporter.

615
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: She is especially angry about people that suggested that this

616
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: was somehow a murder suicide by Ethan. Nothing we've hurt

617
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 1: suggests that is true.

618
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 6: Nothing at all. And I was there when she stood

619
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 6: up and spoke and talk about heart moving and heart felt.

620
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 6: I understand totally why she would be angry at these

621
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 6: outright lies and allegations. Ethan was completely innocent in all

622
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 6: of this, and as a mother, both of us can

623
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 6: definitely relate to the heartbreak she must be feeling.

624
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: You know, Chris McDonough I think part of it is

625
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: the intense speculation about what happened because so much, so

626
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: many of the facts are shrouded in mystery, and they

627
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: may remain shrouded if the judge closes the courtroom to cameras.

628
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 4: You know what a powerful, powerful message she gave from

629
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 4: not only the a you know, the fact that she

630
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 4: spoke with authenticity, and the pain and the depth that

631
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 4: you could hear and feel that moment she presented the messaging.

632
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 4: It reminds all of us of our responsibility to just,

633
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 4: you know, sometimes slow down and take a look at

634
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 4: what's happening, not only in a social media aspect, in

635
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 4: terms of where we are as a society and how

636
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 4: you know, quickly we can judge and make comments like

637
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 4: that about a young man you know, doing this, and

638
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 4: when in fact he's the actual victim. I understand that, Nancy,

639
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 4: You understand.

640
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: That, Oh I do. Chris, You're so right. I've had

641
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: so many stories spin out about my fiancee case murder

642
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: that he was at a liquor store. Nothing can be

643
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: further from the truth. Went out at lunchtime to go

644
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: get other people's soft drinks to take back to a

645
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: construction site. To this, to that, And I remember the

646
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: first time I ever spoke about that publicly. It was

647
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: with Larry King and I the Blue. He asked me

648
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: the date, and I remember it, of course to August

649
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: the sixth, but I blanked on the year. Can I

650
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: tell you all the hate I got because I had

651
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: the year wrong and it got spun out to where

652
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: just all kind of wild, crazy conspiracy speculation, and it

653
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: was very hurtful, much less what Ethan's mother is going

654
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: through with people in their evil tales about how this

655
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: was a murder suicide. That is not true.

656
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 4: It's unbelievable that it would even come to that messaging,

657
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 4: because it does. It continues to be the step of

658
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 4: pain that this family will go through all the way

659
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 4: through the trial, and quite frankly, even the impact statements

660
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 4: will never change the reality of their daily life. So

661
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 4: you know, my heart goes out to them, and it's

662
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 4: this family.

663
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: It really really does the pain these families have been

664
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: going through. Karen start, What is wrong with people? Why

665
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: do they intentionally spend out lies, hurtful lies like that

666
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: this Idahey murders or a murder suicide and Ethan was

667
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: the purpose. That's not true. Can you imagine the pain

668
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: this is causing his family.

669
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 9: And you can hear it in her voice. Fancy the pain.

670
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 9: Of course, the pain will always be there. And people

671
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 9: are good and bad, right, I mean, there are wonderful

672
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 9: people in the world and there are evil people in

673
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 9: the world. And especially now that there is social media,

674
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 9: people can just comment anonymously and start rumors and spread

675
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 9: them and they actually get something from it. They feel

676
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 9: good about doing that, even though it's hard to comprehend,

677
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 9: and so we have to be really careful about paying

678
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 9: attention to those kind of rumors that are just evil

679
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 9: and hurtful and terrible to the families involved.

680
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: Guys, we are waiting for a new trial date as

681
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: a state, and the defense continues to amass evidence for

682
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 1: their cases. Goodbye friend,