1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Grading. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: You are here and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Quick housekeeping note, folks, friends, family, 10 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: phre enemies, fellow conspiracy realists. This is part two in 11 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: a continuing series on colts you may have not heard 12 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: of yet. And before we get to these cults which 13 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: we're we're excited to explore with you, we want you 14 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: to know that we may be leaving your earphones and 15 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: coming to your physical presence. That's right. Longtime listeners who've 16 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: heard the rumors were confirming them. We have a book. 17 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: It is named Stuff they don't want you to know, 18 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: and our corporate overlords are putting us on the road. Yes, 19 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna be hanging out in Atlanta on October twelve, 20 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: I believe, or somewhere right around there. You'll you'll you'll 21 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: see it when you check them out because you you're 22 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: gonna need to look this stuff up. Then we're gonna 23 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: head over to Washington, d C. And we're gonna be 24 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: in Massachusetts as as well, So definitely come out and 25 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: see us if you can, Like really, we need you there, 26 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: so please come and see us. Head on over to 27 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: stuff You should read books dot com to learn all 28 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: the details and the book in question that will be 29 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: out on the road. Promoting also has an accompanying audio 30 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: book that will release on the same exact day as 31 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: said book that Ben mentioned stuff they don't want you 32 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: to know, uh, And it's voiced by the three of us, 33 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: So we all had a good time doing that. And um, 34 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: how by the book and get the audiobook two different 35 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: experiences listening and reading, two very different sensory uh situations. 36 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: So why am I not just cover all your bases. Yeah, 37 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: it comes out October eleventh, so don't wait till then. 38 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: By the way, you can order it right now wherever 39 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: you want, it doesn't matter, just search for the book 40 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: and preorder it now. Do it. It makes a great 41 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: gift for your fellow conspiracy realist. And if you're listening 42 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: and you don't care for someone, then it makes a 43 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: great gift for your enemies too. It's really a win 44 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: win situation, and we're being honest when we say that. 45 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: But the thing is a lot of cultic organizations are 46 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: not being completely honest with their and here with their followers, 47 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: with the people that they have taken in. One thing 48 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: that I think we should spend some time on at 49 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: the top of part two, here is the concept of 50 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: focus and where we found these cultic organizations and why 51 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: we are highlighting them at least for this discourse. Of course, folks, uh, 52 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: if you or someone you know has been taken in 53 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: by a cultic organization, we're going to mention some resources 54 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: at the end of the show that you can use 55 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: to help you or your loved ones escape this sort 56 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: of tyrannical, insidious control. But some folks had reached out 57 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: to me via social media and said, hey, why are 58 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: you guys focusing on cults in recent history. It's a 59 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: good question. It's true that we're focusing on cultic organizations 60 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: in these our modern days, and there are some compelling 61 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: reasons for this. Let's get into it. Here are the 62 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: facts for anyone who hasn't heard episode one. I think 63 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: we need a quick recap of the C word problem. 64 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: Riddle me this, Matt Noel. Why do a lot of 65 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: organizations called cults not like to be called cults? I mean, 66 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: it's become something of a not something very much a 67 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: loaded word. It tends to be used by people who 68 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: are trying to neg a thing. Um one person's religion 69 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: another person's cult. This is the expression meaning religion is 70 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: what people who are within that circle would refer to it, 71 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: or perhaps a spiritual movement something like that. But then 72 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: on the outside someone look again and said, oh, that 73 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: takes a lot of boxes under the heading of the 74 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: C word, and we're going to call it that. It 75 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: is two religions, the same that I think the term 76 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory is to some historical research or you know, 77 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: some of the connecting of dots that we do on 78 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: this show. And then another a lot of people do, uh, 79 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: sometimes less accurately. So, yeah, it is that. It's that 80 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: thought terminating cliche in a lot of way has been Yeah, 81 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: I agreed. Uh, And let us not forget that many 82 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: of society's dominant religions today were in their early days 83 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: considered to be what experts would call cults in the 84 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: modern era. We didn't really get to this in the 85 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: first episode. Part of the problem is the connotation of 86 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: the phrase cult in in recent decades. By recent, I 87 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: mean since the eighteen hundreds or so, cult had a 88 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: derogatory connotation, like you were saying. The word itself dates 89 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: back to the Latin term cult is, which just means quote, care, labor, cultivation, culture, worship, reverence. 90 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, this phrase cult is is kind of 91 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: vin diagram linguistic DNA, with the past participle of word colaire, 92 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: meaning to till, like till the soil if you're a farmer. 93 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: Weirdly enough, colony descends from that same thing. So long 94 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: story short sixteen hundreds, the term cult kind of indicates 95 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: worship or homage of some sort, and you can see 96 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: echoes of this when you hear things like the cult 97 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: of Delta Airlines or the cult of Kanye or Beyonce 98 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: or what's a weird thing that people have a cult 99 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: about Star Wars Star Trek. Maybe certain musicians, Um, yes, 100 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: I really thinking about musicians like the Swifties sports teams. 101 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: That's the beehive. Yeah, there we go. Well, well, and 102 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: that's the thing too, because it's like a decentralized kind 103 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: of cult where it's not like Taylor Swift is like 104 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: commanding her hordes of well is she though? I mean, 105 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: that's that's let's I hear you, man, I really truly 106 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: do Like is there coded language? Is there like dog 107 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: whistle e type things? Maybe, but it's not like this 108 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: is a you know, figure standing on the on the podium, 109 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: you know, preaching to to their converts, saying to those 110 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: who oppose me. But the these followers, you know, we'll 111 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: take it upon themselves to do that stuff like uh 112 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: docs journalists that write bad reviews about Taylor Swift records. 113 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: So you know, is it a cult if someone is 114 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: an actively pursuing cult? Leadership status is a question too, 115 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: you know. I I don't know. It's very uh, it's 116 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: it's curious distinction when we talk about these musical kind 117 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: of figures. Also celebrities should copy worshiped. It is one 118 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: of the great mistakes of humans in this era. In 119 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: the sixteen seventies, this definition narrows to quote a particular 120 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: form or system of worship, and then the term falls 121 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: out of popularity for a while. People aren't really talking 122 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: about it. You know, a lot of stuff happened with 123 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: religions of the day, and the sixteen hundreds, of the 124 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, they were sorting all kinds of stuff out. 125 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: But in the mid eighteen hundreds, by at least eighteen nine, 126 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: history proves the word cult had sort of a created 127 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: the connotation of devoted attention to a particular person or 128 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: thing and quote and less. You know, if you consider 129 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: yourself as celebrity and or you're in love, you have 130 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: a para social relationship with one, and you think I 131 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: am being unfair, then let me note that, Uh, back 132 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: in the day before the current information regime that exists now, 133 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: many cities, particularly in ancient Rome and ancient Greece, Uh, 134 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: they had their own sort of mascots. They had their 135 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: own demi gods, which were sort of their celebrities. So humanity, 136 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: being alarmingly uncreative in its creativity, has just replaced this thing, 137 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: often to the detriment of those actual people who are 138 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: treated as demi gods. And would society be better if 139 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: people didn't worship each other that way? Yeah, it's objective 140 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: and it's kind of stupid. I yield my time, please continue. 141 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: You know, I have a question for both of you, 142 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: which is why we're on the subject, and then it 143 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: will move into you know, the today's specifics. But you 144 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: know a lot of pop stars they're they're they're curated, 145 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: and they're they're handled, and there are other people that 146 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: lead to them being what they ultimately become in terms 147 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: of their image, in terms of like you know that 148 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: that level of of of adoration, it's not always something 149 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: that the stars themselves do consciously. It's some um advisor 150 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: that's telling them what to do or that's kind of like, 151 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: you know, if it's a boy band kind of situation, 152 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: maybe even picking out the members for maximum possible effects. 153 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: Do you think someone can become like a occult leader 154 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: almost by accident, like or used in that way by 155 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: somebody else, like say like resputant. You know, it's sort 156 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: of like this puppeteer for for the czar and things 157 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: like that. I'm just wondering what your thoughts are around that. 158 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. I'm trying. I'm putting it back to like 159 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: the sports context now in my mind. I don't know, 160 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: I'm jumbling things up here, but like I'm imagining the 161 00:10:54,160 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: owner of the Philadelphia Phillies, making the Philadelphia fanatic certain things, 162 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, because he is now the demigod of Philadelphia. 163 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: They are the yeah yeah, keep going that, No you're on. Well, 164 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: that's the thing. Like even in the earlier video when 165 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: I made about how to start a cult, when we 166 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: defined cults by tactics. Uh, you'll notice, folks, if you 167 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: watch that video freely available on YouTube, thank you. Uh. 168 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: One of the things we did is have our characters 169 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: there create that that that um strategy you're describing. There 170 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: is a figurehead wild Wild Country did a great job 171 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: of depicting this in real life. Uh. And then there 172 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: is the proselytizer, right, the apostle disciple number one, who 173 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: was getting in the nitty gritty, and increasingly, since cults 174 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: are uh very bad at being good for people, uh, 175 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: increasingly that apostle will attempt to supplant the figurehead who 176 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: in many cases honestly believes what they're saying and as 177 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: not trying to hurt folks. That's you know, tail as 178 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: old as time. Somewhere along the way. Not for nothing, 179 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: the word cult, as it's uh spoken in the modern 180 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: English parliance became mainly an insult seventy percent and insult 181 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: of warning, and we're glad that exists. We're focusing on 182 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: more recent cultic organizations primarily because there is more objective 183 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: information about them. The story, the long story, put short, 184 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: is this, whether you're talking um, whether you're talking early 185 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: Christian heresies which were often decided to be heresies after 186 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: the fact, or whether you're talking earlier mystery legions of 187 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean and Malta. What you'll see is that as 188 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: historians are looking at these ancient groups that would be 189 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: described as cults in the modern day, they found that 190 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: many of the primary sources writing about these groups, any 191 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: of the contemporaneous or near contemporaneous sources, were written primarily 192 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:28,239 Speaker 1: by critics, by disillusioned former members, by other conscientious objectors. 193 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: And with this in mind, an examination of early cultic 194 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: activity always has to take that into consideration. Human beings 195 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,599 Speaker 1: back then were just as intelligent and just as fallible 196 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: as human beings today, which means they come with all 197 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: the bells and whistles and all the design flaws. One 198 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 1: statistics we should reiterate from our previous episode, by the way, 199 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: is that cults are not an infrequent thing nor is membership. 200 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: Let's hit back on the stat we had in part 201 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: one of this series. According to the International Cultic Studies Association, 202 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: at least two point five million Americans have joined cultic 203 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: groups in the past thirty to forty years. That's uh, 204 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: that's intense. Two and a half million. I just I 205 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: you have to see the list, right, what's included on 206 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: that list of cultic groups just to have a full 207 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: understanding of it. But that's a lot of people. Yea, 208 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: more than I would have thought, especially since some of 209 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: these are not like, you know, making the headlines exactly. 210 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: And also, like I mean again interesting to break down 211 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: this number, but do you think this this includes people 212 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: that perhaps practice you know, maybe like the Satanic temple, 213 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: or that they're practice you know, the occults. I know 214 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: they're not the same word, but they are related. I'm 215 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: wondering if there's any crossover in that number. Like what 216 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: an excellent question. Yeah, because, as we discussed in part one, 217 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: if we want to truly get to the heart of 218 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: what a cult is, then what we really need to 219 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: look at, if we're being intellectually honest, is not so 220 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: much the beliefs as the tactics applied by the organization 221 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: and its leadership. So, for example, there could be a 222 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: commune of people who all live together there in an 223 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: intentional community. What's a what's like a nice suburb, What's 224 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: a nice suburb adjacent to a big towns Aurora, Illinois. 225 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: Let's go with that. So there could be a group 226 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: in Aurora, Illinois and they all lived together. They basically 227 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: bought a neighborhood and they lived together because they are 228 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: convinced that there is one earthly truth, and it is 229 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: that what all society das before them, worshiped as God's 230 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: were really only a specific series of mushroom. Right, Maybe 231 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: it's a kind of puffball mushroom, hopefully a non poisonous 232 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: species of puffball mushroom. But if they believe this, and 233 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: religious freedom does technically exist in the US for now, 234 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: if they believe this, then they are what some folks, 235 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: especially folks who ascribed to different religions, may call a cult. 236 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: But the thing is, you can look at the tactics 237 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: as long as these mushroom worshippers can interact however they 238 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: wish with outsiders, as long as they don't have a 239 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: dictorial unquestionable, the radical leader. As long as they have 240 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: freedom of speech, as long as they can read or 241 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: interact with whatever media they want, they have financial freedom, 242 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: they can spend their money as they wish. Then that 243 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: group of mushroom worshippers doesn't necessarily function as a cult. 244 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: They are just some people who are really into one 245 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,959 Speaker 1: very particular species of fungi. If you look at it, 246 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: then if you if we flip the script and look 247 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: at it in a bit of a more pessimistic frame, 248 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: we'll find that many organizations that do not portray themselves 249 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: in any way as religions, such as multi level marketing outfits, 250 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: can and sometimes do, function as cultic entities. And you know, guys, 251 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: we have received uh no shortage of harrowing personal stories 252 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: from people who typically have a loved one that was 253 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: roped in by m l M. And I think we 254 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: were a little bit um. We didn't really delve into 255 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: what a multi level marketing operation is in in part 256 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: one of this. We've discussed it in previous episodes, but 257 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: does anyone have a quick and dirty of an m 258 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: all in anybody on an upstream or downstream here it's 259 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: basically just the pyramid scheme. I mean that's what a 260 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: multi level marketing organization does. You have to buy a 261 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: bunch of product and then sell that product to other people, 262 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: and have other people who are buying in bulk in 263 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: the same way that you are sell their product in bulk, 264 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: and you get a kick up from each person below you, 265 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: and it goes all the way. It's the same thing 266 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: all the way up to chain to the person that 267 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: owns the company or at least has owning shares or 268 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: whatever it's going to function in that particular MLM. It's 269 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: not great in my opinion. But that's just my opinion. Wow, 270 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: that's some real negative downstream energy, bro It's fully negative. 271 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, I know, that's a perfect description of an 272 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: MLM and part of the reason. Part of their tactics 273 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: deployed to control people are some of the ones that 274 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: we have briefly outlined here. But again, you may be surprised. 275 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: We were certainly surprised by the number of folks who 276 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: are interacting with or um under the thumb or tentacle 277 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: of these things that could rightly be described as cults, 278 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: if not cultic organizations. So we're gonna pause for a 279 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor and then we're going to dive 280 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: into several more cults. May have never heard of cheers 281 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. More examples, more examples. Let's get creative. 282 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: You guys like creativity. We're all creative people on this show. Yeah, 283 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: like you know, making those snowflake things that you cut 284 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: out with the paper, only these these are all shipped 285 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: like swastikas. And the creativity movements. Yeah, yeah, it's a 286 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: beautiful descriptional uh, the creativity movement is. But it's nice, 287 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: it sounds Yeah, yeah, I know, it's like no judgment, 288 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: just paint. The Creativity movement is, by its own account, 289 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: a religion. But get this, fellow conspiracy realist, it is 290 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: a self described atheist religion. A bit of a paradox. No, 291 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: I was gonna ask that, Yeah, you mentioned that last episode. 292 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: What what's don't you have to have? Is that doesn't 293 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: there need to be some deity at the at the 294 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: root of a religion? Or is it saysn't doesn't something else? 295 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: At that point, I'm confused. It's maybe you just believe 296 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: in yourself and you believe in your own creativity. Is 297 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: that is that what this is? Perhaps the purity of 298 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: Zamaster race ye closer to the latter. There of the suggestions, 299 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: the ideas you start a religion and uh, white people, 300 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: however defined right, are going to unite under the aggrieve 301 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: it that there what whiteness is brightness or like somehow 302 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: divinely inspired? This was this pretty recent was created in 303 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three by a guy named Ben Classon. Ben 304 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: Classen was regrettably one of the very few bad bends 305 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: and I apologize to everyone I don't like him. Uh 306 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: he uh. He published as self published a book called 307 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: Nature's Internal Religion in three and this is sort of 308 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: the manifesto for this thing. Uh. He originally called this 309 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: outfit the World Church of the Creator h w C 310 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: O t C. You'll see it abbreviated, as it was 311 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: based on the previous work, which was also plagiarized of 312 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: a failed artist uh known today as aid Al Hitler, 313 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: also known as you know, a genocidal maniac and all 314 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: around pill responsible for the Holocaust. Clausen pre baked his 315 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: prostalization by going around and pitching his idea of a 316 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: paradoxical atheist religion to existing neo Nazi groups. The best 317 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: way to say it is that the what creativity movement 318 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: calls its religion hinges on this argument of racial supremacy. 319 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: You'll see lines in the book that say things like 320 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: white people again somewhat nebulous, Lee defined our nature's highest creation. 321 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: That's a quote, and weirdly enough, this is super confusing 322 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: to me. Weirdly enough quote the creators of all worthwhile 323 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: culture and civilization, which even in seventy three was for 324 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: pretty easy to disprove objectively at your local library. Yeah, 325 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: just to give you like a taste of some of 326 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: the just really quick hits. This guy's whole vibe. Um, 327 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: if you go to there's a page on them on 328 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: the Southern Poverty Law Center dot org, and they pull 329 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: some quotes. Uh, here's the line. We considered Hitler's Nazi 330 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: Germany between nineteen thirty three and thirty nine as the 331 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: finest and most efficient society the white race has ever produced. 332 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: Uh y, no, no, no question about is intent there? 333 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: And then he goes on to talk about how to 334 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: bring about such a society. Uh, there are basically two ways. 335 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: One is persuasion and reason. The other is terrorism. When 336 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: persuasion and reason fail, the only recourse is violence, legal 337 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: or illegal. Yeah, not for nothing, did the Anti Defamation 338 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: League in Southern Poverty Law Center as well as uh 339 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: rational Wiki, which is a good source uh not not 340 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: for nothing have they spent some time singling out this group. 341 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: They're they're like any other cultic organization. There's a lot 342 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: of hypocrisy, there's a lot of what it or well 343 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: call it double think. There's a lot of double think here, 344 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: especially especially when they talk in terms of math, knowing 345 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: uh or perhaps not knowing that the numerals they use, 346 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: the symbols they used to indicate math are in fact 347 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: Arabic creations. So given that race, as we understand it, 348 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: is a social construct, this group didn't do the best job, 349 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: doesn't do the best job of delineating what it is 350 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: exactly that they consider quote unquote white. It's definitely not Jews. 351 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: They're very like big on that. Uh, they're very you know, 352 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: they're primarily anti Semits uh, and that's one of the 353 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: big boogeymen of their ideology. But like other cultic organizations, 354 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: they depend on the same old tactics you needed us 355 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: versus them mentality, which fascism and supremacism are always uh 356 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: always kind of starting from that point, but then you 357 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: need an unquestionable leader and clawson. It was kind of 358 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: like a door to door salesman of this movement to 359 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: pre existing Nazi groups. But he kind of became a leader, 360 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: became the leader, and then he took his own life in. Yeah, 361 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: and then this other dude stepped in, guy named matt Bad, 362 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: Matt Whole, Matthew Hale. Yeah, yeah, in this story are great, uh, 363 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: or we just haven't identified them yet. Matthew Hale took 364 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: the reins. He renamed the whole thing. He called it 365 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: New Church. Pretty awesome, New Church the Creator. Coke. Yeah, yeah, 366 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: it's like new car smell. I was, I was joking 367 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: about New Church of the Creator. Uh, pretty pretty interesting, 368 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: you know, similar to what we've seen happen in several 369 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: organizations over the years, where there's just a new logo 370 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: slapped on the front. Now all the other stuff we're 371 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: all gonna forget about, right right, We're all gonna forget 372 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: about it, um, forget about nothing. It's it's odd. It 373 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: does seem like this is almost more philosophical organized crime 374 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: or or organized crime philosophy. I don't know how to 375 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: put this in the correct way, Ben and all, but 376 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: it feels like crime but dressed up as a religion 377 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: or you know, kind of forward facing front. Well, there's 378 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: another question on the distinction, but the cult question, like 379 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: what differentiates a hate group from a cult? They're aligning 380 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: behind a charismatic leader a lot of the time, Like 381 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: if you've seen the movie Mayor in History X, like 382 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: the group that the the the all the you know, 383 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: the neo Nazis in that movie here and I'll gather around. 384 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: I think it's like Stacy Keach plays the kind of 385 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: big bad who's who's the head of this group? Or 386 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: like in that movie Green Room, um uh, Patrick Stewart 387 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: plays that What what different ships that from occult? Or 388 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: is is it really just kind of like a potato 389 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: potato kind of thing? Well, students of history will tell 390 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: you it is the benefit of retrospect and to them, 391 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: I I I see what you're saying. Also, there is 392 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: quite a muddy ven diagram look the creativity movement to 393 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: your point, Matt, it is more like a supremacist gang 394 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: or organized crime with a lazy window dressing of religion. 395 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: You know what I mean. It's it's like think of 396 00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: a smoothie of pantheism, which is Pantheism is worship many gods, 397 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: whichever God's want. But this smoothie uses racism as a 398 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: base juice, so anything anything there starts from that foundation. 399 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: They don't acknowledge the supernatural. They shoe Christianity, not because 400 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: of the supernatural claims of that religion but uh oh, 401 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: and not because of its practical tenets, the ones Jefferson 402 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 1: agreed with when he rewrote the Bible. Uh. They don't 403 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: disagree with be cool, help people, try to make the 404 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: world better. They disagree with Christianity because of its Jewish roots. 405 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: And if you are a member of the Creativity Movement, 406 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: you're listening now. Yes, all sources agree Jesus Christ was 407 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:53,479 Speaker 1: a Jewish dude. Like many other cultic organizations they create, 408 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: the Creativity Movement has like a baked in expiration date, 409 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: a neat little TikTok TikTok tick talk act now right, 410 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: Their great apocalypse is a racial holy war their phrase. 411 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: Like certain Nazi propagandists before them, they sought to supplant 412 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: existing like they're talking primarily at this point of their inception. 413 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: They're talking primarily to established neo Nazis, who often have 414 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: some version of um supremacist Christianity, right, And so what 415 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: they're attempting to do, like the Nazis of old, is 416 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: to supplant that with some other, some other system of 417 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: holidays or holy days as they were called once upon 418 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: a time. And you can look at the list, but 419 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: like any other set of holidays, they seem super specific, 420 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: super centered in the belief. But you know, why worry 421 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: about contradictions if you're already hepting the idea of an 422 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: atheistic religion. Like other cults, they also practice terminology and jargon. 423 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: The short form for racial holy war is ra ho 424 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: wa capital R capital H capital W. Yeah. I didn't 425 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: know that word. I thought it was maybe some maybe 426 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: German word or something, or the reference to something that 427 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: I was not familiar with. But so is it like 428 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: a is this some kind of shorthand? Um? Like like 429 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: like what's the word like a portmanteau? Or do we 430 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,479 Speaker 1: do we know what it actually means? There's a kind 431 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: of made up it's just their own lord. Yeah. Yeah, 432 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: again it's ra ho wah capital R capital H capital 433 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: W short for racial holy war shorthand for this there 434 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: is uh. They also have commandments. Uh. They have sixteen commandments. 435 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: I don't know how much air we want to give this. 436 00:30:55,280 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: They're primarily what you would expect from a supremacist group. 437 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: I want to be oddest folks. I went to a 438 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: couple of different sources and I pulled one from believe 439 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: this is UH source watch maybe or rational Wiki. So 440 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: there's some snarky stuff here, but it's the important part 441 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: to remember is it's not quite the same as the 442 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: fourteen words, which is a shorthand reference to the supremacist ideology. 443 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: A lot of white nationalist or neo Nazi groups. They 444 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: also do the thing that colts do, wherein they constrain 445 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: the activities of love and reproduction. Surprise, surprise, if you 446 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: remember the creativity movement, your romantic partner has to be 447 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: someone with whom you can reproduce. They have to fit 448 00:31:53,040 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: uh the definition Classon's definition probably what passes as white. Uh. 449 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: And if you are a woman, you have certain extra duties. 450 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: They're not extra credit. There's more stuff you have to do. 451 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: You can read this aspect of their lore and uh 452 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: in a work called quote Declaration of the Woman's Frontier, 453 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,239 Speaker 1: which is you know, it's about oppressing women. Also, they 454 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: are against homosexuality. They are against uh, interracial relationships. Surprise, surprise. 455 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: I don't think they want people reading certain books. And 456 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: oddly enough, that's how I'm creative. This one is oddly enough. 457 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: It takes a lot of its ideology, perhaps unknowingly, from 458 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: other movements, like the five per centers. The five percenters 459 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: are in Islam will remember UH, they're considered a heretical 460 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: offshoot and that beliefs iss M argues that all people 461 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: that belief system considers white are mud people, the result 462 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: of an experiment by a mad scientist many many millennia ago. Uh. 463 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: And the Creativity Movement takes the same phrase literally verbatim. 464 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: They take the same phrase mud people. At what you 465 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: can you know? You can tell that a lot of 466 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: these organizations don't spend a lot of time reading before 467 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: they say stuff. Anyway, we might get in trouble for 468 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: this one because, unlike many cultic groups, this entity, the 469 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:46,959 Speaker 1: Creativity Movement, which its adherents call themselves creators, it encourages 470 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: violent acts of terrorism and a lot of those folks 471 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: have been convicted of tons of offenses in US courts. 472 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,719 Speaker 1: All on setting this up, there's a plot twist at 473 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: the end of this one. And you know, UM, as 474 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: a result of of these UH organized acts of terrorism 475 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: and and violence, you know that that this group is perpetrated. 476 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: Multiple high ranking members of this organization UM have been convicted, 477 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: UM of of various UH offenses in the United States courts, 478 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: and and you know, in their defense, not me defending them, them, 479 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: in defending themselves, UH might use that what about is 480 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: m that we see so much you know, in the 481 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: press and then rhetoric these days where it's like, well, 482 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: what about all these other organized groups that do these 483 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: same kinds of things? You know, Um, they would point 484 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: to perhaps Muslim groups or even Christian organizations or Jewish 485 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: organizations that have you know, to some degree or another 486 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,280 Speaker 1: acted extra legally. UM. It's it's a pretty pretty shallow 487 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: and and thin defense, especially when you're talking when you're 488 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: comparing you know, maybe like conscientious objection or something like 489 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: that to you know, murder. And then of course, UH, 490 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: we talked about the bad ones, the bad bends and matts. Well, 491 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: Matthew Hale, the protege of the originator of this creativity movement, 492 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: He is currently in jail because he decided that he 493 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: was going to put a hit out, or at least 494 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: he was convicted of putting a hit out on a 495 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: federal judge, which is a bad move. That was a 496 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: a oh four when he was convicted, and he's still 497 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,720 Speaker 1: hanging out in prison. I believe you get convicted of murderer, 498 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: and you can get convicted of murder indirectly or is 499 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 1: a conspiracy to commit murder if you're not the one 500 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: who pulls the trigger using someone else as your agent. Yeah, 501 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: you can definitely get convicted for that. And he did 502 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: get convicted for trying to get a federal judge rubbed 503 00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: out uh in retaliation for a another legal action convicting 504 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: another Creativity Movement member of a crime. The organization now 505 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: is the best and remnant of its glory days. The 506 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: adherents now overwhelmingly are primarily primarily dudes in prison in 507 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: one incarceration system or another. And again, it's very not 508 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 1: difficult to go to prison in the United States, which 509 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,720 Speaker 1: still has the highest incarceration rate in the world, depending 510 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: on how you measure it. But I have a plot 511 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: twist for you guys. Oh my gosh, I wanted to 512 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: hear your action on air. Matthew hale Ak bad matt 513 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:54,240 Speaker 1: U went into court for a lawsuit in a case 514 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, the court found. The case is called 515 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: Hail versus Federal Bureau of Prisons. The court found that 516 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 1: the Creativity movement may qualify as religion under the First 517 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: Amendment of the U. S Constitution, may be practiced in prison, 518 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: and as a religion atheistic though it be, it may 519 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: qualify for tax exemption. Wow, how crazy. That's insane. I mean, 520 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: you know we know that that that scientology had to 521 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: go through a whole lot to get that status and 522 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: fights for it. Tooth and nail operations, snow white. It's 523 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: such a yeah, well, yeah, exactly. And you know you 524 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: could argue many do argue that they achieved this result nefariously. Um, 525 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: but that isn't that that's the ultimate kicker, right if 526 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: you get if you get in tax exempt status, you're 527 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 1: not a cult baby, the government says. So cult still 528 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: get tax exempt status so that you can be I 529 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: mean this this term, I mean you getting caught up 530 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: in this. But the cult was almost like a trash religion. 531 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: It's like a fledgling religion that doesn't have enough support 532 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: or juice to to to to properly build people out 533 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: of their money too. No, no, I it's not that 534 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: I disagree with you. I just it the way it 535 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: hit was was hard. That was it. Um. Further, by 536 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 1: the way, creativity is actually recognized as a tax exempt 537 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: religion per a federal court decision in Wisconsin. Uh, this 538 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: this stuff happens. You know what I mean. If you 539 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: are listening and you ever thought maybe I should not 540 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 1: pay Uncle Sam as much. Uh, these monsters got away 541 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: with it. They made it a religion and they're a gang. 542 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: Just to walk back slightly, I'm not saying things like 543 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: tithing is be ripping you off. I'm not saying if 544 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 1: you're a tithing member of your church that you're being sucker. 545 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: That is not what I'm saying. I'm just saying the 546 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: organizations they go to great lengths to get these types 547 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: of status is are not always doing it with you know, 548 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: you're a particular well being at heart. That's all. That's 549 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: all I'm saying. No, I think it's a good point. 550 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: And folks, from the magic of Editing, with the help 551 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 1: of our own Mission Control, we talked backstage and we 552 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: realize that there is much more to the story. There 553 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: are actually cults we're not going to get to today. 554 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: Several we're very excited to explore with you, but time, 555 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: the only true currency of our age, continues to TikTok, TikTok, TikTok. 556 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 1: So we're gonna take a break for a word from 557 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: our sponsors and will return with one more deep dive 558 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: and then maybe we give some honorable mentions or dishonorable 559 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: mentions the cults we'd like to explore in the future. 560 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: What do you think, guys? Does that sound on the level? 561 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:05,839 Speaker 1: It sounds like a plan to me, m and we 562 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: have returned two. Some would say the land of angels. 563 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,280 Speaker 1: This is something we teased in part one of this series. 564 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: Your call um, Matt Noell. We were very careful about 565 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: our language regarding allegations versus convictions in our previous discussions, 566 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: right we we were doing our best to be clear 567 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: about when someone had been accused of a crime versus 568 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,760 Speaker 1: convicted of a crime. And we mentioned that we found 569 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: one recent cult where someone was squarely convicted in a 570 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: court of law. They actually did this stuff. And that's 571 00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 1: where angels landing comes in. Yeah, out in talk endsis 572 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 1: there was an individual named Daniel I guess we can 573 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: say full named Daniel perez Um, and he started a 574 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: thing called angels Landing, the angels Landing Commune. And this 575 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: is you know, it's it's one of those places where 576 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: it's fairly small. I think it was well fairly small, 577 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: relatively small, about twenty acres of land that was out 578 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,759 Speaker 1: there in Wichita. And you know, not everybody even really 579 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,800 Speaker 1: knew what it was. But if you live near the area, 580 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,919 Speaker 1: you probably noticed what was going on. Maybe you saw 581 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: some kind of signs, maybe you heard some whispers, but 582 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: everybody just kind of thought, oh, well, they must be 583 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, it must be a farm. They must be 584 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: doing something out there there. They're clearly they're not needing 585 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: of anything right now. It doesn't seem like they're out 586 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: in the town doing work or anything like that. They 587 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 1: seem to be fine. Well, it wasn't your run of 588 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: the mill twenty acre plot of land that may be 589 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: is growing something or creating you know, crafts or something 590 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 1: on it to make a living for the people who 591 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 1: lived there. They were doing something else. Yeah, So it 592 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: turns out farming was not their primary means of income. Um. 593 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,200 Speaker 1: The real one that was actually paying the bills was 594 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: it was murder. It was murder. An FBI investigation showed 595 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: uncovered UM evidence pointing to the group UM having moved 596 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: from state to state UH trying to bring along with 597 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: the members that they had coerced UM into buying life 598 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 1: insurance policies UH and then collecting the money. When at 599 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 1: least six UH purported accidental deaths occurred across seven years, 600 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: UM Perez was becoming essentially a organized kind of serial 601 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,959 Speaker 1: killer UM. And there's more. It goes, It goes further 602 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 1: than that. That's not all, as Billy Mays was wont 603 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,880 Speaker 1: to say, there is much more. You may not have 604 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: recognized the name Daniel Perez if you met this character 605 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,760 Speaker 1: in the wild. He also went by Leu Castro, several 606 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: other monikers. He convinced his followers that he had magical powers, 607 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:28,760 Speaker 1: and this is stuff they believed. He persuaded them that 608 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: he was actually an angel, as our pal Lauren Vogelbaum 609 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,839 Speaker 1: would say, he made them think he was a hashtag 610 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: actual facts, angel, divine sent from God, hundreds and hundreds 611 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: of years old, and the only way that he was 612 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,759 Speaker 1: able to exist on this or disappointing mortal plane was 613 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: if he had continuous sexual activity with miners. If he 614 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: sexually abused children, he would stay on the plane and 615 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: reveal more of his wisdom. If he did not, he 616 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:11,360 Speaker 1: would die. This example shows us a cultic organization that 617 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: honestly looks like it was purpose fleet designed to aid 618 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 1: and a bet. This Perez Guy's proclivities and his crimes. 619 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,880 Speaker 1: His victims ranged in age from eight to sixteen years old. 620 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: Just before he was caught and convicted and thankfully sent 621 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 1: to prison, he knew the heat was getting autumn in Wichita, 622 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: and so he relocated to Columbia, Tennessee. In April of 623 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. That's how recent this is. He 624 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: was found living in a two story home just outside 625 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: city limits with his then fiance, her child, and another teenager. 626 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 1: The story gained national recognition. Those of us interested in 627 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 1: true crime in the audience today may be familiar with 628 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: documentary programs like Deadly Colts. You may have seen a 629 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: special on Dateline. The investigations revealed that this creature traveled 630 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: through Texas, South Dakota and Kansas for more than two decades, 631 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 1: always praying on children. And I want to shout out 632 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: the Columbia Daily Herald, which gives a graphic description of 633 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,279 Speaker 1: of how he worked, how this thing worked. There's an 634 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 1: excerpt here, I think we just read it in full. Yeah, 635 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: from the Columbia Daily Herald. Quote. Whenever he was running 636 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 1: low on money, Perez would foresee the accidental death of 637 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 1: one of the commune members to fund his insatiable thirst 638 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,960 Speaker 1: for violence and control. Prosecutors and investigators found Perez that 639 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: ties to six accidental deaths in which insurance companies paid 640 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,280 Speaker 1: out four point two million dollars to other Commune members 641 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: whom Perez controlled. Yeah, so, so imagine this guy is 642 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,399 Speaker 1: not like Wilhelm Reich. He is not someone in love 643 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,160 Speaker 1: with his own magic. He is a con man and 644 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: a predator, and he is and he is he is 645 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:29,720 Speaker 1: knowingly misleading cognitively vulnerable people, and he's hurting their children. 646 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 1: And anytime he's running low on funds, he says, I 647 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: had a vision something bad is going to happen to 648 00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,800 Speaker 1: so and so, who just happens to have a lucrative 649 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: life insurance policy. Yeah, man, I'm always suspective profits that 650 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: don't foresee doomsday visions, you know what I mean? Like, 651 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to be associated with that give me 652 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,760 Speaker 1: give me a positive profit. You know, you can foresee 653 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,839 Speaker 1: like winning the lottery. Good. I don't want to hang 654 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,200 Speaker 1: out of the guy that's always predicting people die and 655 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:07,000 Speaker 1: then they die in his group. Yeah, we've got a 656 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: list of the six people that were killed. I guess. Yeah, 657 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,320 Speaker 1: we'll just say that this is This is another excerpt 658 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 1: from the Columbia Daily Herald quote. When Perez was finally apprehended, 659 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: he was only charged with one of the murders with 660 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: Hughes murders one of the people who lived there, but 661 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 1: five other commune members with hefty life insurance policies also 662 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: died died while living on the commune. Three victims were 663 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,600 Speaker 1: killed in a two thousand one airplane crash near this 664 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,360 Speaker 1: place called Norris, South Dakota. Another one of the victims 665 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: was crushed by a car and oh six, when you know, 666 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 1: somebody's working underneath the car, and then a jack allegedly 667 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 1: failed and the car crushed that person. And the last 668 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,439 Speaker 1: was the death of a certain real estate agent that 669 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,279 Speaker 1: I guess was interacting with people on the commune or 670 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 1: Perez himself. And Perez did, unlike many other leaders of 671 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 1: cultic organization sations, he did get convicted for his crimes. 672 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: This means that the allegations against him are considered factual. 673 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: They are not rumor, they are not statements from disillusioned 674 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:18,560 Speaker 1: or disgruntled followers. Let's go to the Wichita Eagle. A 675 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:25,240 Speaker 1: journalist named amy Reneelker details how in Perez was found 676 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:32,440 Speaker 1: guilty on twenty eight different criminal counts, including crimes of 677 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:37,000 Speaker 1: sexual abuse and homicide. He was sentenced to two terms 678 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,319 Speaker 1: of life in prison. The judge also told Perez he 679 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:46,480 Speaker 1: would be serving four hundred and six months. That's a 680 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,600 Speaker 1: little bit. That's like circa will less than thirty four 681 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,800 Speaker 1: years in prison. On the remainder of the convictions. This 682 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,400 Speaker 1: guy is not getting out. So in at least one case, 683 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:02,399 Speaker 1: we have justice being brought to the leader of a 684 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:08,920 Speaker 1: cultic organization. And in many cases, these leaders, as divine 685 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,800 Speaker 1: as they may purport themselves to be, or only human, 686 00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: only as fallible as the next. And they are often predatory, 687 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:23,760 Speaker 1: perhaps not to the degree of a Perez, but dangerous nonetheless. 688 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,239 Speaker 1: And this again is just scratching the surface. There are 689 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,239 Speaker 1: many many organizations that might not call themselves cults, but 690 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,560 Speaker 1: certainly do things a cults would do. They check the boxes. 691 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,960 Speaker 1: This is where we go to our last note today. 692 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,040 Speaker 1: If you or anyone you know has been taken in 693 00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:50,320 Speaker 1: by an organization that is abusive, emotionally or physically unsafe, 694 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,400 Speaker 1: please don't hesitate to reach out. We haven't talked about 695 00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: personal experiences of our own with organizations like this, they 696 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:06,000 Speaker 1: are closer than than one might assume. One good place 697 00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,560 Speaker 1: to start is an outfit called Dare to Doubt all 698 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,920 Speaker 1: one word Dare to Doubt dot org. If you go 699 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,760 Speaker 1: to their website you will see a number of resources 700 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,280 Speaker 1: and one of the one of the best century points 701 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:28,479 Speaker 1: there is a quiz called what resources are right for you? Now? 702 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,840 Speaker 1: Of course a lot. There's a whole other episode about 703 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: some of the dangerous practices of self uh self titled 704 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,160 Speaker 1: d programming of cults. That's a that's a different thing. 705 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,239 Speaker 1: I see you not even know you know about that? 706 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:48,120 Speaker 1: Uh yeah. But also like I mean, if you if 707 00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,640 Speaker 1: you think you if you think you maybe in a cult, 708 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,520 Speaker 1: you might be in a cult. Just like I know 709 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 1: a lot of times people get you know, in these situations, 710 00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,279 Speaker 1: like it's like a lobster boiling or whatever. You don't 711 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 1: know it's late, you know, by the time you actually 712 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: realize it. But you know a lot of folks that 713 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: have you know, gone through um the pandemic and have 714 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,640 Speaker 1: gone you know, down these rabbit holes with things like 715 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,720 Speaker 1: Q and on and like things like these more decentralized 716 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:17,840 Speaker 1: kind of cults of personality and ideology. I mean, I 717 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,959 Speaker 1: don't know, it sounds stupid now that I'm saying out loud, 718 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,080 Speaker 1: but just keep an eye on your people, man. And 719 00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,760 Speaker 1: if you feel like someone's gone too far into even 720 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:31,279 Speaker 1: and a particular ideology that seems toxic, just I don't 721 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,400 Speaker 1: know what you do. You can't exactly have them like 722 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,600 Speaker 1: rescued or you know, spirited away, but maybe it is 723 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: time to talk about getting some help, you know, or 724 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: just at the very least let them know that you 725 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,359 Speaker 1: you see them and you love them. And don't make 726 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,680 Speaker 1: it about aggression. Make it about you know, trying to 727 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,799 Speaker 1: understand and trying to help them understand that you you 728 00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,840 Speaker 1: care about them. I would say, just from the research 729 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,520 Speaker 1: of this episode, anybody out there that's considering joining some 730 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:04,600 Speaker 1: kind of ashram or yoga, like seriously serious yoga, but 731 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:09,040 Speaker 1: don't do it. We've we've read about multiple yoga groups 732 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,760 Speaker 1: that it becomes a cult of personality around the person 733 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:17,400 Speaker 1: at the head, and it moves away from teaching, you know, 734 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:22,480 Speaker 1: philosophical teachings handed down over centuries or millennia. It becomes 735 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,000 Speaker 1: the hot yoga guy. Mean, it's sort of it's detached 736 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,160 Speaker 1: itself from that legacy, I think for people that still 737 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,160 Speaker 1: enjoy doing a hot yoga. But that guy in l A. 738 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,080 Speaker 1: He was a total like sex predator, right, But it's 739 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:38,080 Speaker 1: not just him, and it seems to be tied often. 740 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if there is fully a connection here, guys, 741 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,160 Speaker 1: but when we mentioned it at the top of this episode, 742 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:49,440 Speaker 1: but cult activity with a leader where sex is almost 743 00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,040 Speaker 1: always involved, I don't know why sexual activity is almost 744 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,799 Speaker 1: always involved with a creepy, powerful leader in one of 745 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,040 Speaker 1: in one of these cult like groups. And it's very 746 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,439 Speaker 1: I think, just something and about yoga, especially when it's 747 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,440 Speaker 1: really warm, uh, in the place where you're doing yoga, 748 00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,520 Speaker 1: that just becomes this. I'm not saying yoga is bad. 749 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,080 Speaker 1: I'm saying when one of these cult leaders gets around 750 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:17,080 Speaker 1: the yoga experience, it's it's bad news. So stay tuned 751 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:23,000 Speaker 1: for our upcoming hit Peace on Yoga. No, no, no, 752 00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:24,960 Speaker 1: it's true. You're right, You're right. You're right, But the 753 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:32,240 Speaker 1: thing again is uh, cultic cultic tactics are content agnostic. Okay, 754 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:37,640 Speaker 1: full disclosure, folks. They could even be a podcast, but 755 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,279 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be super effective as a cult in that 756 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:45,319 Speaker 1: regard because you would need you need to have the physicality, right, 757 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,399 Speaker 1: You need to have the control of the physical as 758 00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,240 Speaker 1: well as the mental. We do not seek to control. 759 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:54,400 Speaker 1: We seek to liberate, sometimes their own detriment. Right. But 760 00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:59,279 Speaker 1: we're doing this show. We haven't started a cult yet. 761 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:06,920 Speaker 1: But that same agnosticism about content empowers cults. That's why 762 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,759 Speaker 1: it can be about yoga, That's why it can be 763 00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,840 Speaker 1: about how to feed your pets. Right, That's why it 764 00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:19,479 Speaker 1: can be about therapy, psychology, even arguably architecture. Right. Not 765 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:24,720 Speaker 1: for nothing did people accuse Frank Lloyd Wright of leading 766 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,279 Speaker 1: something like a cult with all the trappings of a 767 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,080 Speaker 1: cultic organization. We want to hear your thoughts. One thing 768 00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:36,439 Speaker 1: is clear, more people than you might know have interacted 769 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:41,520 Speaker 1: with an organization that, if not in name and practice, 770 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,160 Speaker 1: was a cult. Give us your stories. We're so glad 771 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,120 Speaker 1: you're here. Thanks for tuning in. Looks like there's gonna 772 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,879 Speaker 1: be a part three apart four apart. Who knows about this? Uh. 773 00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,840 Speaker 1: In the meantime, we try to be easy to find online, 774 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,879 Speaker 1: super easy. Can find this on Facebook, which yeah, listen 775 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,440 Speaker 1: to reach out saying that our Facebook group was disappeared. 776 00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,040 Speaker 1: I don't think that's true. Check check again. UM, yeah, 777 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,400 Speaker 1: I you you wrote and uh you wrote to us 778 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: in group message and I wrote back, I could see it. Uh, 779 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,600 Speaker 1: I asked if you could see it? Well, can you 780 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,080 Speaker 1: see it? Maybe this is maybe this is a youth thing. Uh. 781 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,279 Speaker 1: It seems though that that the Facebook group is in tact. 782 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:23,920 Speaker 1: It's called Here's where it gets crazy. You can join it, 783 00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,080 Speaker 1: um and see for yourself what kinds of goings on 784 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,839 Speaker 1: are happening in that place. You can also find us 785 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,000 Speaker 1: on Twitter, and you can find us on YouTube. All 786 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,759 Speaker 1: three of those places. We are conspiracy stuff on Instagram 787 00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,560 Speaker 1: or conspiracy stuff show yes. And if you don't like 788 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,080 Speaker 1: social media, we also have a phone number call one 789 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:45,200 Speaker 1: eight three three std W y t K. Give us 790 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,840 Speaker 1: whatever name you want to call yourself a cool moniker 791 00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,480 Speaker 1: just helps. Next time you call in, we'll recognize you 792 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,680 Speaker 1: and you've got three minutes see whatever you'd like. Please 793 00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,880 Speaker 1: let us know at some point that message if We 794 00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,879 Speaker 1: can use your message and voice on one of our 795 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,200 Speaker 1: listener mail episode. If you don't like using your voice 796 00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,200 Speaker 1: to talk on the phone and then why not instead 797 00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,520 Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy 798 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:28,920 Speaker 1: at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want 799 00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,280 Speaker 1: you to know. Is a production of I heart Radio. 800 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,880 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 801 00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,880 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 802 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:37,680 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.