1 00:00:01,350 --> 00:00:04,310 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,390 --> 00:00:14,340 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson. 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,739 Speaker 1: And I'm Holly Frey. Today we talked about Anne of Brittany. 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,660 Speaker 1: We sure did. I said this to Holly while I 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: was working on this, but every single time I do 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:29,860 Speaker 1: an episode about royalty, I am taken by surprise. by 7 00:00:29,900 --> 00:00:34,370 Speaker 1: how much it sucks that everyone has the same name. Yeah. 8 00:00:34,409 --> 00:00:39,410 Speaker 1: There's five names and everyone has them. And I'm always like, 9 00:00:39,450 --> 00:00:41,930 Speaker 1: was that the 11th or the 12th? Was that his 10 00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:45,590 Speaker 1: cousin or his brother? Right. It's also nerve wracking because 11 00:00:45,610 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: the slightest typo can change the course of history. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I... 12 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: Every time we do a royal episode, I forget until 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:58,700 Speaker 1: I'm back into another one. It's because you block it 14 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:04,330 Speaker 1: out from the trauma immediately afterwards. Also, according to this episode, 15 00:01:04,590 --> 00:01:09,330 Speaker 1: horses are very dangerous. Right? As far as I know, 16 00:01:09,970 --> 00:01:14,170 Speaker 1: both of the deaths after a horseback fall in this 17 00:01:14,250 --> 00:01:17,330 Speaker 1: episode were people who were just out for a ride, 18 00:01:17,510 --> 00:01:23,330 Speaker 1: enjoying themselves in a recreational way. Just riding. And then... 19 00:01:24,060 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: Fall from a horse. Scary. And then another tennis death. 20 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,510 Speaker 1: In the episode about Charlotte Cooper Stary, who was a 21 00:01:31,650 --> 00:01:33,290 Speaker 1: tennis player that we did a while ago, we kind 22 00:01:33,310 --> 00:01:35,550 Speaker 1: of talked about the history of tennis in that episode 23 00:01:36,230 --> 00:01:40,330 Speaker 1: and talked about the lot of royals whose deaths are 24 00:01:40,390 --> 00:01:43,730 Speaker 1: somehow connected to tennis. And Charles was not one of 25 00:01:43,770 --> 00:01:46,130 Speaker 1: the people that came up in that episode. But now 26 00:01:46,170 --> 00:01:48,580 Speaker 1: we can add him to the roster. We can add 27 00:01:48,620 --> 00:01:52,380 Speaker 1: him to the roster. Various speculation about what might have 28 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:57,620 Speaker 1: really been going on because it seems like he would 29 00:01:57,700 --> 00:02:02,310 Speaker 1: have had to hit his head incredibly hard for that 30 00:02:02,370 --> 00:02:05,430 Speaker 1: to be the cause of death without something else going on. 31 00:02:06,630 --> 00:02:10,330 Speaker 1: Harder than would be expected by then just continuing into 32 00:02:10,389 --> 00:02:14,070 Speaker 1: the tennis court to watch the game. Yeah. I mean, 33 00:02:14,090 --> 00:02:18,350 Speaker 1: there are freak accidents like that. Yeah, there are. But 34 00:02:18,370 --> 00:02:21,510 Speaker 1: there were also other things that could have been in play. Yeah, yeah. 35 00:02:22,169 --> 00:02:25,010 Speaker 1: especially considering that he had sort of been described as 36 00:02:25,090 --> 00:02:28,850 Speaker 1: never in very good health. We also didn't say it 37 00:02:28,889 --> 00:02:32,460 Speaker 1: specifically in this episode, but he apparently had lots of affairs, 38 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: and this was an era when there were not effective 39 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,740 Speaker 1: treatments for a lot of the sexually transmitted infections that 40 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,340 Speaker 1: could be gotten when having lots of affairs. There's been 41 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,990 Speaker 1: a speculation that he might have had, like, syphilis that 42 00:02:50,030 --> 00:02:53,859 Speaker 1: had gone... To his brain. I don't know what kind of, 43 00:02:54,850 --> 00:02:58,990 Speaker 1: maybe not documentation, but like what specific evidence might have 44 00:02:59,070 --> 00:03:02,570 Speaker 1: led to that speculation. Because I was like, I cannot 45 00:03:02,620 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: research all of these side details about people who are 46 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,660 Speaker 1: not Anne for the episode. I did like getting to 47 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,980 Speaker 1: research Anne, though. Yeah. I enjoyed the book, The Unicorn Hunters. 48 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: It took a little longer for me to get into 49 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: than some of her other work. because she's got other 50 00:03:22,580 --> 00:03:26,380 Speaker 1: books that just captivated me from the very beginning. And 51 00:03:26,419 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: this one took a little longer. But then strange and 52 00:03:30,660 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: surprising things started to happen, because it is a fantasy 53 00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:41,570 Speaker 1: in addition to being a historical reimagining. And it's always 54 00:03:41,650 --> 00:03:46,730 Speaker 1: fun to get to read about historical women making the 55 00:03:46,770 --> 00:03:50,570 Speaker 1: most of the power that they have in different For sure. Situations. 56 00:03:50,630 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: And of course, a royal woman has a lot more 57 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,180 Speaker 1: power than a lot of other women, but she seems 58 00:03:56,220 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: to have been able to use the power that she 59 00:03:57,980 --> 00:04:01,690 Speaker 1: had when all of the men around her had way 60 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,910 Speaker 1: more power than she did. Yeah. Yeah. She sounds very 61 00:04:05,950 --> 00:04:10,530 Speaker 1: interesting to me. I kind of appreciate her bossy approach 62 00:04:10,570 --> 00:04:14,030 Speaker 1: to life. It works for me. I'm like, yeah, baby, 63 00:04:14,130 --> 00:04:17,250 Speaker 1: do it. I had two, I had one thought and 64 00:04:17,270 --> 00:04:20,330 Speaker 1: I have a horrible confession. Okay. That might get me 65 00:04:20,410 --> 00:04:24,380 Speaker 1: stoned to death in the streets. Uh-oh. One was just 66 00:04:24,420 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: completely unrelated to this. When I was looking over this 67 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: this morning and her sadly not long-lived son, Charles Orlon, 68 00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:40,529 Speaker 1: came up. Mm-hmm. I was like, oh, my gosh, this 69 00:04:40,610 --> 00:04:44,700 Speaker 1: makes sense of a story I had heard somebody tell many, 70 00:04:44,980 --> 00:04:47,420 Speaker 1: many moons ago. I had seen somebody tell in a thing, 71 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: which is Rolly Crump, who famous Disney Imagineer. Yeah. And 72 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: he told this story once. I don't know if it 73 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,390 Speaker 1: was in an interview or just in a like a 74 00:04:59,170 --> 00:05:01,470 Speaker 1: video of him talking about his life. Like there wasn't 75 00:05:01,510 --> 00:05:03,890 Speaker 1: necessarily quite an interview where he was saying when he 76 00:05:03,950 --> 00:05:06,210 Speaker 1: first started working at Disney, which was something he wanted 77 00:05:06,390 --> 00:05:08,870 Speaker 1: so badly. I think we talked about this maybe in 78 00:05:08,950 --> 00:05:10,950 Speaker 1: one of our Haunted Mansion episodes, that he wanted that 79 00:05:10,990 --> 00:05:13,370 Speaker 1: job so badly that he took a huge pay cut 80 00:05:13,430 --> 00:05:18,870 Speaker 1: to do it. And apparently, initially, HR typed his name 81 00:05:18,930 --> 00:05:22,130 Speaker 1: wrong on his employee card. And so people were calling 82 00:05:22,170 --> 00:05:25,750 Speaker 1: him Orland for the first some number of time. And 83 00:05:26,060 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: he was so scared to jeopardize this new job that 84 00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:31,220 Speaker 1: he didn't correct them. And I was like, why would 85 00:05:31,339 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 1: anyone think that somebody was named Orland? And now I'm like, oh, yeah, 86 00:05:34,260 --> 00:05:36,410 Speaker 1: because it's a friend. Maybe she was French or had 87 00:05:36,430 --> 00:05:40,130 Speaker 1: French relatives. Maybe so. Everything clicked into place for me. Yeah. 88 00:05:40,230 --> 00:05:43,530 Speaker 1: Here's my horrible confession. Okay. Oh, man, am I almost 89 00:05:43,570 --> 00:05:45,729 Speaker 1: scared to say this. I'm really going to make people angry. 90 00:05:45,750 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: I hate the unicorn tapestries. Yeah. I don't know what 91 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: it is about them. You know I love art. Uh-huh. 92 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,180 Speaker 1: There is something about the composition of them. I don't 93 00:05:57,220 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: like it. No. I don't know what it is. I 94 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:05,460 Speaker 1: don't know if it's like... The mannerism, like I'm fine 95 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,140 Speaker 1: with mannerism in paintings, but there's something about it in 96 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:14,420 Speaker 1: fabric execution that just gives me a weird ick. I 97 00:06:14,460 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: don't know what it is. I know I'm a monster. 98 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: People love these things. They want fabric prints of these. 99 00:06:21,940 --> 00:06:23,349 Speaker 1: I have talked to so many people who are like, 100 00:06:23,470 --> 00:06:26,890 Speaker 1: I hope there's a run of fabric of the unicorn tapestries. 101 00:06:26,950 --> 00:06:30,130 Speaker 1: And I'm always like, cool. Have fun with that. Not 102 00:06:30,170 --> 00:06:34,750 Speaker 1: for me. I have not seen... these ones in person. 103 00:06:35,390 --> 00:06:38,930 Speaker 1: But I have seen the other unicorn tapestries that are 104 00:06:39,029 --> 00:06:43,330 Speaker 1: in the Cluny Museum in Paris and were the inspiration 105 00:06:43,410 --> 00:06:47,650 Speaker 1: for our previous episode on unicorns. So I feel like 106 00:06:47,750 --> 00:06:51,310 Speaker 1: I will reserve judgment until the day, at some point, 107 00:06:51,370 --> 00:06:53,729 Speaker 1: I'm sure I will make it to the Cloisters. Oh, 108 00:06:53,770 --> 00:06:56,550 Speaker 1: it's spectacular. It's not like New York is that far 109 00:06:56,610 --> 00:06:58,589 Speaker 1: from me. No, but even when you're in New York, 110 00:06:58,650 --> 00:07:00,330 Speaker 1: like going up to the Cloisters is a little bit 111 00:07:00,380 --> 00:07:03,620 Speaker 1: of a hike. depending on where you're staying in the city. Yeah, 112 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,609 Speaker 1: I don't know what my problem is. It's me. I'm 113 00:07:05,650 --> 00:07:08,230 Speaker 1: the problem. I understand that. I just don't, I have 114 00:07:08,350 --> 00:07:12,130 Speaker 1: no good reaction to those. Yeah. And never have. And 115 00:07:12,150 --> 00:07:14,210 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. It's all right. People 116 00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:16,770 Speaker 1: like what they like. That's what I think. It's true. 117 00:07:16,790 --> 00:07:19,590 Speaker 1: That's what I think. I'm not anti-unicorn. I think part 118 00:07:19,610 --> 00:07:22,100 Speaker 1: of it is the one, the unicorn in the garden, 119 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: where he's in a very small enclosure. I was going 120 00:07:26,300 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: to say the enclosure one. It's much too small for 121 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: any animal, first off. I'm just like the animal behaviorist 122 00:07:32,190 --> 00:07:34,310 Speaker 1: nerd in me is like, that's going to cause unwanted, 123 00:07:34,690 --> 00:07:38,290 Speaker 1: what's called undesirable behavior patterns. It's not real, Holly. It's 124 00:07:38,330 --> 00:07:41,370 Speaker 1: a unicorn on a tapestry. It's okay. But it's still, 125 00:07:41,630 --> 00:07:43,610 Speaker 1: that might be the heart of it where I'm just like. 126 00:07:44,010 --> 00:07:47,410 Speaker 1: You're stressed out by the animal treatment. My pedantry about 127 00:07:47,450 --> 00:07:52,530 Speaker 1: how this unicorn is being treated prevents me from appreciating 128 00:07:52,570 --> 00:07:54,020 Speaker 1: any of the art of it. Yeah, I don't know. 129 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:55,780 Speaker 1: That one in particular is the first one I saw, 130 00:07:55,820 --> 00:07:58,410 Speaker 1: I'm sure, because it's the most popular one. It's the 131 00:07:58,450 --> 00:08:01,150 Speaker 1: one that gets reprinted in books and used on book 132 00:08:01,190 --> 00:08:06,150 Speaker 1: covers and, you know. Yeah. And I just, I don't know. 133 00:08:06,270 --> 00:08:09,190 Speaker 1: It's not my jam. I'm sorry. Anybody that loves it, 134 00:08:09,230 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: you should wear it proudly and love it, and I 135 00:08:10,950 --> 00:08:13,300 Speaker 1: will not criticize it. I just won't. I will be 136 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: quietly irked from afar. It is a very, very... The 137 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:24,980 Speaker 1: enclosure is barely larger than the unicorn. Oh. But they've 138 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: already hunted it at that point. So like, what do 139 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: they care? Yeah. Right. It's not about like treating it 140 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:37,140 Speaker 1: with treasure like reverence. Yeah. Yeah. This might be the 141 00:08:37,179 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: heart of why I don't like. I was talking to 142 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,260 Speaker 1: a friend recently. I'm jumping tracks a bit about why 143 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: I don't like Lady and the Tramp. Okay. Disney people, 144 00:08:46,059 --> 00:08:48,500 Speaker 1: I hear you. But here's the thing. Do you remember 145 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,130 Speaker 1: Lady and the Tramp? Vaguely. I mean, I have seen it. 146 00:08:52,630 --> 00:08:54,809 Speaker 1: It had been a long time since, you know, when 147 00:08:54,850 --> 00:08:56,709 Speaker 1: Disney used to do the like, it's going in the 148 00:08:56,750 --> 00:08:58,610 Speaker 1: vault and you couldn't see a movie for a long time. 149 00:08:58,670 --> 00:09:00,429 Speaker 1: And then it came out and I was like, hey, 150 00:09:00,450 --> 00:09:01,770 Speaker 1: I haven't seen this since I was a kid. I 151 00:09:01,790 --> 00:09:03,150 Speaker 1: should watch it. And I watched it and I was 152 00:09:03,530 --> 00:09:07,170 Speaker 1: horrified because the whole point is like, Lady is their 153 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: treasured pup. They love her. She gets treated like a 154 00:09:10,580 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: little princess baby angel like she should be. And then 155 00:09:13,059 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: they have a baby and they kind of push her 156 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: to the side and they're like, ah, get out of 157 00:09:16,220 --> 00:09:18,140 Speaker 1: the way, Lady. And I'm like, this is why I 158 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,420 Speaker 1: don't like children and why this movie was not a 159 00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: repeater for me. Yeah. Yeah. I don't hate children. I 160 00:09:23,980 --> 00:09:26,500 Speaker 1: just don't want one in my life. And I'm scared 161 00:09:26,540 --> 00:09:33,060 Speaker 1: around them. Anyway, similarly, the unicorn tapestry does something in 162 00:09:33,100 --> 00:09:38,450 Speaker 1: my brain that I'm like. Yeah. Oh, well. Oh, well. Orland. 163 00:09:38,570 --> 00:09:41,330 Speaker 1: That's that's a better thing. Mr. Pants came up. So I'm. 164 00:09:42,050 --> 00:09:54,970 Speaker 1: It did. It did. Love it. Love it. Yeah. We 165 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,809 Speaker 1: talked about credit cards this week. We did. We did. 166 00:09:59,179 --> 00:10:02,580 Speaker 1: We did not talk about credit reports, but we will. Yeah. 167 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,020 Speaker 1: I think in the not too distant future, because that 168 00:10:05,059 --> 00:10:08,740 Speaker 1: is also a whole fascinating thing. Yeah. That determines the 169 00:10:08,780 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: course of so many people's financial lives. Yeah. And is 170 00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: a thing people just made up. At this point, credit 171 00:10:14,380 --> 00:10:19,330 Speaker 1: cards seem so ubiquitous. Yeah. And so many things, it's, 172 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,290 Speaker 1: It seems hard to, like, imagine living your life without one, 173 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,340 Speaker 1: or if not a credit card, at least a debit 174 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:32,030 Speaker 1: card that's tied directly, some kind of card to pay 175 00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:36,650 Speaker 1: things with. And I didn't quite realize the recency of that. 176 00:10:37,550 --> 00:10:40,980 Speaker 1: But it's something that's been around pretty much longer than 177 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,060 Speaker 1: my whole life. Right. But it didn't become, like, the 178 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:50,089 Speaker 1: way everything functioned until, yeah, within our lifetimes. One of 179 00:10:50,130 --> 00:10:52,309 Speaker 1: the things that was interesting that I saw just this 180 00:10:52,370 --> 00:10:54,770 Speaker 1: past weekend, I was at Disney World. I went to 181 00:10:54,809 --> 00:10:57,850 Speaker 1: the Epcot Food and Wine Festival. Don't bring cash to 182 00:10:57,890 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: those booths. Uh-oh. They're not taking it anymore. Yeah. It's 183 00:11:02,380 --> 00:11:04,460 Speaker 1: all plastic now. Gotta have a card. And a lot 184 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:06,179 Speaker 1: of places are doing that now. So it's kind of 185 00:11:06,220 --> 00:11:09,700 Speaker 1: this funny thing where they're so ubiquitous now. Right. That 186 00:11:09,980 --> 00:11:13,470 Speaker 1: they have supplanted cash as the preferred mode of transaction. 187 00:11:13,490 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: Just interesting. Interesting. I feel like I have different feelings 188 00:11:18,020 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: about that within the closed ecosystem of somewhere like Epcot 189 00:11:22,100 --> 00:11:24,939 Speaker 1: or a food and wine festival. But a lot of 190 00:11:24,980 --> 00:11:29,260 Speaker 1: things that have become cashless, people who don't have a 191 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,220 Speaker 1: credit card still need to do that. Like still need 192 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: to be able to buy a bottle of water at 193 00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:40,690 Speaker 1: the convenience store or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm 194 00:11:40,730 --> 00:11:43,250 Speaker 1: always very aware of when stores have that sign up 195 00:11:43,270 --> 00:11:45,970 Speaker 1: because I'm like, what will people do if they really 196 00:11:46,010 --> 00:11:48,610 Speaker 1: need what you have? And I'm always like, I have that, 197 00:11:48,730 --> 00:11:51,929 Speaker 1: you know, dopey attitude where I'm always on the lookout. 198 00:11:51,970 --> 00:11:54,380 Speaker 1: Does someone look panicked because they only have cash? Because 199 00:11:54,410 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: I think I'm going to fix it somehow. It comes 200 00:11:59,130 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: from a good place. Do you know what I really 201 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,540 Speaker 1: want to talk about? What do you really want to 202 00:12:02,580 --> 00:12:05,900 Speaker 1: talk about? Bellamy's book, Looking Backward. Okay. I kind of 203 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: want to talk about him maybe in the future. But 204 00:12:08,059 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: it's interesting because when that book first came out, because 205 00:12:11,380 --> 00:12:14,490 Speaker 1: it showed this vision of a utopia in the future 206 00:12:14,570 --> 00:12:19,090 Speaker 1: where like all of these issues of capitalism and people 207 00:12:20,070 --> 00:12:25,670 Speaker 1: having such disparity of the way wealth was distributed. Mm-hmm. 208 00:12:26,250 --> 00:12:29,929 Speaker 1: being gone and it being great. Like, it actually kind 209 00:12:30,070 --> 00:12:32,449 Speaker 1: of launched a pretty big movement at the time. A 210 00:12:32,590 --> 00:12:36,290 Speaker 1: lot of sort of utopian society experiments started as a 211 00:12:36,429 --> 00:12:39,470 Speaker 1: consequence of people being very excited about that book. But 212 00:12:39,510 --> 00:12:43,750 Speaker 1: I just feel like it would be... It's ripe for 213 00:12:43,809 --> 00:12:46,770 Speaker 1: another surge of popularity right now. Like, it's just the 214 00:12:46,809 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: concepts in it I think would appeal to a lot 215 00:12:49,150 --> 00:12:51,740 Speaker 1: of people. I did not read the whole thing cover 216 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,130 Speaker 1: to cover, but I read probably... 25 to 30 percent 217 00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: of it and found it to be a pretty easy 218 00:12:58,050 --> 00:13:01,599 Speaker 1: read and pretty well written. I think I'm going to 219 00:13:01,620 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: read the whole thing. I'm very curious about it. Nice. 220 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,100 Speaker 1: I love it. Knuckle busters. Thanks, Andor, for inspiring this episode. Listen, 221 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,740 Speaker 1: I'll Star Wars up anything I can. That seems great 222 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,119 Speaker 1: to me. But it was funny because I remember posting, 223 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: was I still on Twitter then or was it already 224 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: on Blizz? Anyway, wherever I was on social media, I 225 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,300 Speaker 1: posted something where I was like, man, everybody that worked 226 00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: in retail in the 80s and 90s just had like 227 00:13:26,540 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: a knee-jerk trauma reaction to watching that knuckle buster go. 228 00:13:30,260 --> 00:13:32,340 Speaker 1: And so many people chimed in and were like, oh 229 00:13:32,380 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: my gosh, I literally shuddered. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, 230 00:13:35,980 --> 00:13:38,459 Speaker 1: even that I, even not working retail, like I can 231 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,140 Speaker 1: hear the sound of that machine in my head. It 232 00:13:41,220 --> 00:13:45,140 Speaker 1: is satisfying. I will say that. But like, then you 233 00:13:45,179 --> 00:13:47,740 Speaker 1: have one go wrong. Like I remember I was working, 234 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,500 Speaker 1: like I said, in the episode in a a hair 235 00:13:50,510 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: salon that was inside a department store and it would 236 00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:57,980 Speaker 1: do like the cash register would print the ticket out 237 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:03,260 Speaker 1: on the, the little carbon layered thing. And then you 238 00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: had to run the thing. But if you messed up 239 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,990 Speaker 1: running the card, you had to hand write all of 240 00:14:10,020 --> 00:14:14,590 Speaker 1: the card information. Cause you couldn't rerun the card on 241 00:14:14,630 --> 00:14:19,870 Speaker 1: that ticket. You couldn't, reissued the ticket through our cash 242 00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:22,530 Speaker 1: register system at the time yeah and then it was 243 00:14:22,590 --> 00:14:25,950 Speaker 1: like operation slowdown is in effect everybody is gonna have 244 00:14:25,970 --> 00:14:28,770 Speaker 1: to wait an extra 12 minutes while I check this 245 00:14:28,810 --> 00:14:31,620 Speaker 1: person out which on a Saturday afternoon was a very 246 00:14:31,650 --> 00:14:34,340 Speaker 1: big problem nobody wants to wait 12 minutes when their 247 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: shampoo and set is freshly done and I have a 248 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of very specific memories of that 249 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,650 Speaker 1: job which I did for several years yeah I have 250 00:14:45,690 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: very specific memories of my first credit card. Which, as 251 00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: we said, I signed up for at a tent with 252 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,420 Speaker 1: a table under it outside of the student center at 253 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,060 Speaker 1: my college. And I feel like I got a free thing, too. Like, 254 00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:06,940 Speaker 1: there was a free water bottle or something involved. Shirts, 255 00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: squeezy balls, tote bags, umbrellas, all the stuff. I was 256 00:15:11,140 --> 00:15:18,010 Speaker 1: a pretty responsible teen. Not me. And so I really 257 00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: did use this card only for emergencies for a while. 258 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: And the first big emergency that I used it for 259 00:15:24,140 --> 00:15:27,260 Speaker 1: was I went to the University of North Carolina at Asheville. 260 00:15:28,460 --> 00:15:31,740 Speaker 1: A winter storm blew in right when I was supposed 261 00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:35,890 Speaker 1: to be returning to school for the spring semester. A 262 00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:39,210 Speaker 1: situation happened where I was like, I got to leave. 263 00:15:39,270 --> 00:15:40,710 Speaker 1: I got to get there now or I'm going to 264 00:15:40,730 --> 00:15:43,190 Speaker 1: be stuck at my parents' house for like fully a 265 00:15:43,230 --> 00:15:47,470 Speaker 1: week or more because that's, There's no road clearance in 266 00:15:47,970 --> 00:15:50,990 Speaker 1: that part of North Carolina where my parents live. So 267 00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:54,070 Speaker 1: I went ahead and got to Asheville. The school would 268 00:15:54,110 --> 00:15:56,730 Speaker 1: not let me get into the dorm early. And so 269 00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:58,990 Speaker 1: I wound up at a motel. And I would not 270 00:15:59,030 --> 00:16:01,530 Speaker 1: have been able to pay for that motel without that 271 00:16:01,580 --> 00:16:04,780 Speaker 1: credit card. Oh, yeah. And so, like, it really did 272 00:16:05,580 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: save me in that situation. And it was a little 273 00:16:09,340 --> 00:16:15,460 Speaker 1: bit later when I moved... From a job that had 274 00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:17,500 Speaker 1: paid me a little bit more to a job that 275 00:16:17,540 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: paid me a little bit less and was also in 276 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,590 Speaker 1: a more expensive city. And I started just using the 277 00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:28,130 Speaker 1: credit card to kind of make up the difference in 278 00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:34,910 Speaker 1: my relative incomes. And then that added up over time. Yeah. 279 00:16:35,770 --> 00:16:40,130 Speaker 1: Until it was a five-digit number. Yeah, I mean, that's 280 00:16:40,190 --> 00:16:42,830 Speaker 1: really easy to do. I mean, we, you know, when 281 00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:45,710 Speaker 1: we first got married, we were very poor. And there 282 00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:48,130 Speaker 1: were times when, like, we were kind of juggling the 283 00:16:48,170 --> 00:16:51,290 Speaker 1: cards to try to make ends meet while still paying 284 00:16:51,380 --> 00:16:53,010 Speaker 1: off enough of each of them each month that we 285 00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: could keep doing that for a while. And then as 286 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: I got better jobs, I just started paying them down. 287 00:16:58,460 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: That was, yeah, I got better jobs and started paying 288 00:17:00,980 --> 00:17:05,109 Speaker 1: them down. And then... I got a first-time homebuyer tax 289 00:17:05,190 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: credit that was a lump sum, and I was able 290 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,940 Speaker 1: to use that lump sum to pay it to zero. Yeah. Yeah, 291 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: which is the best feeling. Yeah. I had to pay 292 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:22,270 Speaker 1: back that tax credit later. But that not being in 293 00:17:22,330 --> 00:17:24,889 Speaker 1: debt had allowed me to save up the money so 294 00:17:24,930 --> 00:17:27,490 Speaker 1: that when the repayment of the tax credit was due, 295 00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:30,670 Speaker 1: I was able to do it. Right. And you weren't... 296 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: paying interest on all of that right all time yeah 297 00:17:33,460 --> 00:17:37,110 Speaker 1: because that's what'll get you yep it's really hard it's 298 00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:40,869 Speaker 1: tricky i think too for you know i mean i 299 00:17:42,609 --> 00:17:45,109 Speaker 1: there are so many teenagers that are so much smarter 300 00:17:45,150 --> 00:17:47,340 Speaker 1: than i was at that age but i just like 301 00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: want to point out that like the part of your 302 00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: brain that manages judgment is not done forming yet mm-hmm 303 00:17:53,869 --> 00:17:55,869 Speaker 1: when a lot of these companies were like, yeah, you 304 00:17:55,890 --> 00:17:58,530 Speaker 1: can have a credit card. Here you go. When you 305 00:17:58,570 --> 00:18:01,030 Speaker 1: were in school. And I'm like, are any of you 306 00:18:01,050 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: taking this into account? So a lot of people graduate 307 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: not only with student loans, but like this massive credit 308 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:11,260 Speaker 1: card debt that they really should not have had access 309 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,540 Speaker 1: to in terms of line of credit yet. And you 310 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,810 Speaker 1: and I also came of age in the era when 311 00:18:15,850 --> 00:18:21,770 Speaker 1: we were explicitly taught that student loan debt was good debt. Yeah. So... 312 00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:27,310 Speaker 1: The funnest. that sort of interconnected with being offered a 313 00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:31,750 Speaker 1: credit card while in college. Yeah. Yeah. I initially had 314 00:18:31,790 --> 00:18:38,129 Speaker 1: a card that was attached to my dad's account. That 315 00:18:38,190 --> 00:18:47,700 Speaker 1: didn't go great. Listen, I'm a spendy girl at times. 316 00:18:48,140 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm much more financially responsible than I was 317 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,230 Speaker 1: at that age, but I'd still like to, you know, 318 00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:57,609 Speaker 1: have a little spender at times. Yeah, that was the 319 00:18:57,670 --> 00:19:03,540 Speaker 1: source of much conflict and consternation. Sure. But it's fine now. 320 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: It's fine. Yeah. The other thing that did happen for 321 00:19:15,859 --> 00:19:19,850 Speaker 1: me as I got older, able to pay this stuff off, 322 00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:23,730 Speaker 1: is that I don't. have that many cards. One thing 323 00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:27,250 Speaker 1: we didn't talk about in this episode is how quickly, 324 00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:30,100 Speaker 1: I noticed it really take off in the 90s. I 325 00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:32,460 Speaker 1: know it had always been around, but in the 90s, 326 00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:36,100 Speaker 1: it seemed like every store wanted to offer you their 327 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:42,010 Speaker 1: credit card. And what some stores did that caught me 328 00:19:42,090 --> 00:19:44,250 Speaker 1: off guard at one point, and I ended up racking 329 00:19:44,330 --> 00:19:46,889 Speaker 1: up a, like, I didn't even spend that much on it, 330 00:19:47,390 --> 00:19:52,060 Speaker 1: but I had an because... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Some 331 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: stores would issue you the store card, but it would 332 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: also automatically open up like a Visa or MasterCard at 333 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:04,450 Speaker 1: the same time. Oh. And... sometimes the balances, like there 334 00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:07,470 Speaker 1: was one store, a very large department store chain that 335 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: still exists that I won't name because they'll probably be like, 336 00:20:10,020 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: you're the dumb one. But like you would open it, 337 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: you could use the store card, but it would automatically 338 00:20:14,420 --> 00:20:18,850 Speaker 1: transfer any unpaid from your monthly onto the other account. 339 00:20:18,930 --> 00:20:22,790 Speaker 1: And I didn't even know that account existed and wasn't. 340 00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:25,950 Speaker 1: So then they were suddenly like, This is going to collections. 341 00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:27,620 Speaker 1: And I was like, what are you talking about? What 342 00:20:27,630 --> 00:20:31,619 Speaker 1: does this mean? Now, some of that is user error, 100%. 343 00:20:31,619 --> 00:20:36,030 Speaker 1: But also just that structure was dicey. I do remember 344 00:20:36,090 --> 00:20:40,330 Speaker 1: having a pile of different store cards. Yeah. And some 345 00:20:40,369 --> 00:20:43,130 Speaker 1: of them were stores that I shopped at often enough 346 00:20:43,210 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: for that to make sense. But other times, it was, 347 00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: do you want 20% off today? You can sign up 348 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: for our credit card. Oh, my gosh, all the time. Yeah, and, like, 349 00:20:51,980 --> 00:20:54,780 Speaker 1: a person not making a lot of money early in 350 00:20:54,820 --> 00:20:57,970 Speaker 1: my career, I was like, absolutely, I do want 20% 351 00:20:57,970 --> 00:21:00,830 Speaker 1: off of these work clothes that I'm buying for my 352 00:21:00,930 --> 00:21:04,770 Speaker 1: office job. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of those now have 353 00:21:04,830 --> 00:21:09,290 Speaker 1: been acquired, you know, the little smaller store cards. There 354 00:21:09,369 --> 00:21:12,070 Speaker 1: are still some, but a lot of those got acquired 355 00:21:12,130 --> 00:21:15,980 Speaker 1: by bigger companies, right? Mm-mm. Target was doing theirs for 356 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,420 Speaker 1: a while. Now I think that's a Visa. I don't 357 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: have that account at this point. Yeah, I don't know. 358 00:21:21,460 --> 00:21:23,460 Speaker 1: I did at one point. I haven't for quite some time. 359 00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:29,750 Speaker 1: Disney got acquired by Chase. I should know that. I 360 00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:33,330 Speaker 1: used that one. We also did not talk about the 361 00:21:33,450 --> 00:21:38,250 Speaker 1: rise of rewards programs, which happened in the 1990s. Because 362 00:21:38,510 --> 00:21:43,410 Speaker 1: they all operate... So differently, even though the basic concept 363 00:21:43,530 --> 00:21:47,890 Speaker 1: is you spend X amount, we credit you in some 364 00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:51,890 Speaker 1: form of either money back or points or some other program. 365 00:21:51,930 --> 00:21:55,050 Speaker 1: And then you can sometimes put those points on another 366 00:21:55,150 --> 00:21:58,570 Speaker 1: card and that card becomes like a gift card. It 367 00:21:59,270 --> 00:22:02,790 Speaker 1: was too much to get into. So if you're dismayed 368 00:22:02,850 --> 00:22:06,270 Speaker 1: out there in our listener village and not having the 369 00:22:06,290 --> 00:22:11,550 Speaker 1: history of points programs or reward programs, sorry. Yeah. Listen, 370 00:22:11,570 --> 00:22:15,100 Speaker 1: I have two rewards cards that get used so much. 371 00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:18,740 Speaker 1: I have two rewards cards and then a third card 372 00:22:18,780 --> 00:22:20,740 Speaker 1: that is just the card that I have had for 373 00:22:20,780 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: the longest that I still have for that reason. And 374 00:22:24,619 --> 00:22:28,100 Speaker 1: the two rewards cards kind of act as the primary 375 00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:30,770 Speaker 1: card and the backup for the most part. Yeah, mine 376 00:22:30,810 --> 00:22:33,470 Speaker 1: are a little specific to what I use them for. 377 00:22:33,530 --> 00:22:36,460 Speaker 1: That too. Yeah. Like, there's the primary one that most 378 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: of the stuff goes on. There's the backup and also 379 00:22:39,460 --> 00:22:42,380 Speaker 1: for the other vendor. And then there's the third one 380 00:22:42,540 --> 00:22:44,719 Speaker 1: that I just keep active enough that it doesn't get 381 00:22:44,790 --> 00:22:48,090 Speaker 1: canceled just in case because it's the longest thing on 382 00:22:48,130 --> 00:22:52,190 Speaker 1: my credit history. Same, because I keep that third card 383 00:22:53,290 --> 00:22:57,710 Speaker 1: in a place in the house so that if, heaven forbid... 384 00:22:57,810 --> 00:23:00,530 Speaker 1: We are away from the house, and whoever is watching 385 00:23:00,570 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: our cats, there is an emergency. They don't have to 386 00:23:04,980 --> 00:23:08,899 Speaker 1: out-of-pocket anything. That's smart. And I'm just like, whatever it takes, 387 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: pay the people. That, to me, is a little easier 388 00:23:11,619 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: to do than to know that that's... I mean, one 389 00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:18,219 Speaker 1: of the services we use, like, I have friends that 390 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,369 Speaker 1: watch our cats, but sometimes if those friends are, as 391 00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:23,390 Speaker 1: just happened... On the trip with you. On a trip 392 00:23:23,410 --> 00:23:26,300 Speaker 1: with us, both my main... friend that watches them and 393 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: the backup friends that watch them we used an actual 394 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,500 Speaker 1: professional service and I know they have a whole system 395 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,700 Speaker 1: that they use but even so I just like knowing 396 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,300 Speaker 1: I could always say hey there's just a card in 397 00:23:37,340 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: this place you can just go grab that take it 398 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,859 Speaker 1: right to the emergency vet with you anyway credit cards 399 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: yeah fascinating to me yep tricky parts of life for 400 00:23:48,770 --> 00:23:51,290 Speaker 1: for at many times for many people yeah it has 401 00:23:51,310 --> 00:23:52,950 Speaker 1: been tricky for me in the past but now I 402 00:23:53,010 --> 00:23:57,630 Speaker 1: have it under control Thanks, universe. If this is your 403 00:23:57,670 --> 00:23:59,629 Speaker 1: weekend coming up, I hope you spend your money in 404 00:23:59,670 --> 00:24:01,729 Speaker 1: whatever way makes sense to you. I judge no one. 405 00:24:02,210 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: And if you do spend money, I hope it's on 406 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: something that delights you. Maybe a little treat. Maybe a 407 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: little something to give you a little dopamine hit and 408 00:24:09,140 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: make you smile. If you don't have a weekend coming 409 00:24:12,060 --> 00:24:15,010 Speaker 1: up and you are working probably to help pay off 410 00:24:15,050 --> 00:24:17,790 Speaker 1: all of the many bills, maybe including credit cards, I 411 00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:21,510 Speaker 1: hope that that work is fulfilling, if at all possible. 412 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,859 Speaker 1: And if not, I hope it goes smoothly and is 413 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: easy and your shift ends really fast and then you 414 00:24:26,420 --> 00:24:28,260 Speaker 1: can get back to your life. And I hope that 415 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,970 Speaker 1: everybody is kind to you, whether you are working or not. 416 00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:33,070 Speaker 1: And that you are kind to others because we all 417 00:24:33,109 --> 00:24:36,570 Speaker 1: need it really bad. We will be right back here 418 00:24:36,609 --> 00:24:39,740 Speaker 1: on Monday with a brand new episode. We will also 419 00:24:39,780 --> 00:24:47,460 Speaker 1: be back here tomorrow with a classic. Stuff You Missed 420 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,670 Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 421 00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:55,139 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 422 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,980 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.