Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop Podcast, all your favorite episodes from the
Speaker 1: Facebook Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Hello RTT family. Um, this particular Red
Speaker 1: Table Talk is about a subject matter that has rarely
Speaker 1: talked about, and that is the sexual abuse of young boys.
Speaker 1: The headlines keep coming, priests, pop stars, even the boy scouts.
Speaker 1: Every new accusation of sexual abuse exposes a hidden epidemic
Speaker 1: that tortures our young boys and leaves them suffering in silence.
Speaker 1: Just days ago, Common, the multi talented Oscar winner, courageously
Speaker 1: revealed a painful experience he had repressed for years of
Speaker 1: being molested by a family friend as a young boy.
Speaker 1: So I want people to be like, man, I can
Speaker 1: you know I've experienced this and I can say something
Speaker 1: about it if I find out how to heal myself.
Speaker 1: And a lot of people afraid to talk about it.
Speaker 1: But the only way we stopped the cycling to talk
Speaker 1: about it. So that's why I told you to say something.
Speaker 1: And when a friend told me about a courageous NBA
Speaker 1: player who was revealing a trauma from his childhood. I
Speaker 1: knew we needed to hear a story at the Red Table.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. One of the reasons why this particular
Speaker 1: show um was really important to me is because how
Speaker 1: many men told me, really men that you knew personally. Yes,
Speaker 1: if I think it's about the list of twenty men
Speaker 1: in my own life, they'll be like four or five
Speaker 1: out of twenty that have been you know, sexually abused,
Speaker 1: I mean even to the extreme of rape. So over
Speaker 1: the years, I've been really shocked at how common it is.
Speaker 1: Most men won't report it, they won't come out and
Speaker 1: talk about it, such a secretive matter. Joining the Red
Speaker 1: Tape was a former NBA player, Kian Dueling, who for
Speaker 1: a very long time had kept a deep secret. In twelve,
Speaker 1: Kion Dueling had a picture perfect life with a beautiful
Speaker 1: wife and four adorable kids. He was starting his twelfth
Speaker 1: year as an NBA player, and I just signed a
Speaker 1: new one point four million dollar contract with the Boston Celtics.
Speaker 1: He played for the legendary NBA championship coach Doc Rivers,
Speaker 1: and his best friends were as teammates, All Star point
Speaker 1: guard Region Rondo and a young rising star Avery Bradley,
Speaker 1: the Celtics had become a second family. Our Celtic culture
Speaker 1: was was just it was extremely tight. Um we were
Speaker 1: a family. He was very intelligent, articular guy who was
Speaker 1: kind of more like a mentor big brother than me.
Speaker 1: Our families were closed, our kids played together. Me and
Speaker 1: ki Are instantly just had like a special relationship. He
Speaker 1: was like an older brother for me. Avery invited key
Speaker 1: On to Seattle for a charity event, but afterwards his
Speaker 1: life took a dark and drastic turn. After the event,
Speaker 1: Kian having an incident with someone in the bathroom and
Speaker 1: us having to stop him, like calm him down. And
Speaker 1: this is kind of where everything started. Kian was in
Speaker 1: the bathroom. A drunk man grabbed us behind and Kian snapped.
Speaker 1: We walked outside and we happened to see the guy
Speaker 1: that Kion saw on the restroom and he started choking him.
Speaker 1: To calm Kion down, I just held him tight, told
Speaker 1: him it wasn't worth it. From that day on, his
Speaker 1: teammates say Kian became someone they didn't recognize. He came
Speaker 1: back from Seattle when we kind of had to gather
Speaker 1: at the house. I started to see the difference and
Speaker 1: changed in. He kept talking about, you know how we
Speaker 1: all need to repent and ask for forgiveness is coming soon,
Speaker 1: and I was definitely worried. A few days later, Kian
Speaker 1: went to the Celtics gym and brought his little boy
Speaker 1: kJ with him. Guys were playing pick up on the
Speaker 1: court at the time, and Kian went on the court
Speaker 1: and stop to pick up Gay and it took the ball,
Speaker 1: and so everybody was like, man, what's wrong with key Are?
Speaker 1: And I remember him saying that he wanted to give
Speaker 1: his contract up. He didn't, he didn't want to play anymore.
Speaker 1: I got a call from my assistant, Emrie, you need
Speaker 1: to hurry up and get here. Kean is having a meltdown.
Speaker 1: And so when I pull up at the facility, the
Speaker 1: door bust opening his key on in his shorts and
Speaker 1: those shirts, cold outside, and he hugs me, but he
Speaker 1: hugs me tight and hard. And for a long time
Speaker 1: he was literally talking about Illuminati's evil God. He wasn't
Speaker 1: making a lot of sense. I wanted to get a
Speaker 1: son away because he still was acting a little bit different,
Speaker 1: and I remember Rondo grabbing his son um kJ, and
Speaker 1: and me driving him home. I was like man, this
Speaker 1: isn't my brethren. No, I have no no idea what
Speaker 1: I couldn't went wrong for him to just snap. Mamory
Speaker 1: calls me and tells me they put him in a
Speaker 1: mental institution. I just jumped in the car and I
Speaker 1: went to see Kia. And when I pull into this facility,
Speaker 1: if you've ever seen one over the Cuckoo's nest, it
Speaker 1: was worse. I said, you don't belong here. What's going on? Kia?
Speaker 1: And that's when he opened up about what happened, that
Speaker 1: he was abused sexually abuse. He said, I must have
Speaker 1: blocked it out of my mind all these years, and
Speaker 1: somehow it came pouring out of me. I thought he
Speaker 1: was in trouble, and to watch what he went through,
Speaker 1: I don't think you'll ever understand the fear of all
Speaker 1: the people who loved him. Wow, how does that make
Speaker 1: you feel a lot of emotions. I feel supported, I
Speaker 1: feel loved um, and I also feel like a man
Speaker 1: who was in the battlefield and my brothers didn't just
Speaker 1: leave me there. Yeah. That proved to me that man,
Speaker 1: my folks got love for me. Yeah. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: was very happy about that. Also during PTSD, you don't
Speaker 1: remember everything you experienced. And that's a very difficult place
Speaker 1: to be for me as a man to say, hey,
Speaker 1: I don't remember some of those things that happened during
Speaker 1: those times. And so to hear the different prospectives, um,
Speaker 1: you know kind of really brings the full circle to
Speaker 1: me as well. Can you take us back to the beginning.
Speaker 1: Can you take us back to the actual incident? I can?
Speaker 1: I can. Um. So it was a rainy day South
Speaker 1: Florida in the summer. Um, my friend and I we
Speaker 1: were at one of my brother's friends house and uh,
Speaker 1: we've been there before, we've hung out there before, played
Speaker 1: the video game, but this day it was different. This
Speaker 1: day he put porn on. UM, and that was really
Speaker 1: to me. You know, a part of the grooming didn't know.
Speaker 1: You're young, you're curious, you don't really know what to expect,
Speaker 1: but you also know that you're human beings. So when
Speaker 1: porn's on and kind of grabbed your attention, um, and
Speaker 1: as that whole process went on, um, you know, you know, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's always still tough to talk about, but that was
Speaker 1: a that was a point where you know, um, he
Speaker 1: first orally raped me. Yeah, and then yeah, and UM,
Speaker 1: I remember running out of there, going home and jumping
Speaker 1: in the shower. I got my bike, I threw it down,
Speaker 1: I took my handlebars off, I taped up a knife,
Speaker 1: and you know, I put my handlebars back together and
Speaker 1: I kind of started riding with a knife with me.
Speaker 1: How old were you? I was seven years old, got it?
Speaker 1: I was seven years old at the time. And how
Speaker 1: old was he um at the time? He had to
Speaker 1: be about fifteen sixteen years old. It was it an
Speaker 1: isolated incident? Yeah, that that was an isolated incident. And
Speaker 1: you never told anyone. I never told anyone. I didn't
Speaker 1: tell my mom, I didn't tell anybody. What was it
Speaker 1: that made you not tell anyone? Fear? There was a
Speaker 1: fear of me telling my pops that I was touched
Speaker 1: by boy, right, you know, and that dynamic, those conversations
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily had, you know, in a healthy way. And
Speaker 1: then there's a there's a fear that comes along with
Speaker 1: telling your protectors out of fear of what they might do,
Speaker 1: how would they retaliate, and what repercussions would have been
Speaker 1: for them. Yes, did you still have to see this person? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I had to see him quite a bit. Did it
Speaker 1: ever make you can on question like your sexuality, right,
Speaker 1: question just your just you. Yeah, I think you have to.
Speaker 1: You have to, you know, ask yourself questions in order
Speaker 1: to try and wrap your mind around it. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the first question is what was it in
Speaker 1: me that they saw that it happened to me? You know?
Speaker 1: Was it some type of you know, energy that I
Speaker 1: was giving off? So a lot of times, you know,
Speaker 1: I blamed myself, like dagn he caught me slipping? What
Speaker 1: was I doing there? Also you questioned your toughness, you know,
Speaker 1: you questioning your masculine energy because I wasn't strong enough
Speaker 1: to fight him off. And so I blamed myself for years.
Speaker 1: So you were only seven. Do you remember whether you
Speaker 1: noticed in yourself any kind of change and behavior that
Speaker 1: you can recall now because you wouldn't have recognized it then. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it made me angry. You know. I went from being
Speaker 1: you know, happy, go lucky toube. You know, if I
Speaker 1: didn't get my way, I might you know, throw bottles
Speaker 1: on the basketball court nobody playing the day. Started smoking
Speaker 1: very early, started drinking very early. I became more promiscuous
Speaker 1: at a very early age. I got to prove to
Speaker 1: myself that this wasn't real, so I gotta go chase
Speaker 1: his many girls as I potentially can. You know, so
Speaker 1: it made me very promiscuous. Did you ever confront your abuser? No,
Speaker 1: I never got that opportunity to confront him or get
Speaker 1: that you know, justice. A lot of times when you're abused,
Speaker 1: you might not get justice, but I think you gotta
Speaker 1: get healing. Yeah, you know, Um, I think they're both important.
Speaker 1: But for me, the track that I chose was the
Speaker 1: healing track. And so the first person I told about
Speaker 1: it was my wife and then I told Doc about it.
Speaker 1: How did she react? It was tough. Yeah, she was
Speaker 1: just so disappointed that you know I didn't tell her. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: from my perspective, you know, I thought she would look
Speaker 1: at me as less than a man, you know, so
Speaker 1: there was some fear associated with that. Um. Also, you know,
Speaker 1: just being in a very masculine industry, you know, how
Speaker 1: would the guys perceived that I've been you know, sexually
Speaker 1: abused at the hands of a teenage man, Right, so
Speaker 1: there was a lot of you know, um, doubt and
Speaker 1: in securities and confliction within me. Um during that time. Right.
Speaker 1: We don't always think about how sexual abuse affects a
Speaker 1: survivor's loved one, but Kian's wife, Tasha has been dealing
Speaker 1: with this trauma as well. Kian Dueling and his wife
Speaker 1: Tasha were high school sweethearts. I met Kian at a
Speaker 1: football game and were sixteen years old. I like that
Speaker 1: he was funny and he was caring. We went to
Speaker 1: all the events together, ProMED, we went to homecoming together.
Speaker 1: You couldn't pull us apart. At just twenty years old,
Speaker 1: the Duelings began their life together. They got married, started
Speaker 1: a family, and watched Kian's dream of joining the NBA
Speaker 1: come true when he was drafted in the first round.
Speaker 1: They had a happy life until the incident in the bathroom.
Speaker 1: After Kian came back from Seattle, he changed a lot
Speaker 1: and he was acting weird. He see thing and said
Speaker 1: we didn't see you know. He thought people was out
Speaker 1: to get him. One day, my daughter Gabby ran upstairs
Speaker 1: and she was like, Mommy, mommy, dadd is in the
Speaker 1: street and cars are coming and they're blowing at him,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like what. So one of the neighbors
Speaker 1: saw Kian in the street and they called the police.
Speaker 1: The police came and it was a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: police and I'm just like, oh my god, nie knocking
Speaker 1: and bamming on the door. They had their guns and
Speaker 1: they handcuffed him on the floor and they was just like,
Speaker 1: is he having a mental break now? I said yes.
Speaker 1: He was like, we have to take him because he
Speaker 1: can't be here around the kids. Tasha followed the police
Speaker 1: card to the hospital. But when she got there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it broke my heart because he didn't know who I was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm Natasha Doing, I'm your wife. He
Speaker 1: said you sure, I said yeah, and so he said
Speaker 1: what then who am I? I said, you're killing doing?
Speaker 1: I said, we have four kids and that that was
Speaker 1: really hard and I knew I couldn't take him back
Speaker 1: around the kids until he got better. I sent him
Speaker 1: to the mental institution and that was hard too. It
Speaker 1: wasn't until the next day Tasha was allowed to visit him.
Speaker 1: That mental hospital was really honestly like a horror movie,
Speaker 1: like something that I've seen off of film. It was.
Speaker 1: It was really scary. When I got in to see him,
Speaker 1: he just like had his hand behind his head laying
Speaker 1: on the bed, and I just got in the bed
Speaker 1: and laid next to him. He told me that he
Speaker 1: was molested and that he cheated, and I'm just like, okay, Ken, like, damn,
Speaker 1: you wait till you thirty five to tell me this,
Speaker 1: and then on top of that, you tell me you hid.
Speaker 1: So now I have to not only like help you
Speaker 1: get out of here, I gotta help you get out
Speaker 1: of here knowing that you cheated on me. I wanted
Speaker 1: to say, okay, way the women you were sleeping with,
Speaker 1: help them come help you get out in the middle too,
Speaker 1: That's what I really wanted to say. But I could
Speaker 1: not leave my husband in that hospital. I think I
Speaker 1: went through every emotion that you could possibly go through
Speaker 1: at that time. I was hurt, and I still feel rage.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised I'm able to sit here. M hmm, wow,
Speaker 1: you still feel rage about m Just it's just like
Speaker 1: when I think about certain things, you know, like if
Speaker 1: I'm fooling this underworld, you know, stuff like you know,
Speaker 1: these little things like you just sometimes you just think
Speaker 1: about it and you just start thinking and just get angry. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I just had to get him out of
Speaker 1: there first, dan deal with all that, yeah, with all
Speaker 1: that other stuff. So finally, when I got him out,
Speaker 1: then he got well. Then I had to deal with
Speaker 1: what I was going through because I felt like he
Speaker 1: was getting worse there. It seemed like every time I
Speaker 1: went there, they was doping him up. That's what I
Speaker 1: was going to ask. Was he for medication? Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was on medication. And I just felt like it was
Speaker 1: really worse. And I was just like, if I don't
Speaker 1: get my husband out of here, I'm gonna lose him. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Have you been able to grasp what he was dealing
Speaker 1: with that could lead to lead to the promise. I
Speaker 1: didn't understand that at first, but you do now. I
Speaker 1: do now. It was it's really tough to even think about,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But it wasn't about me,
Speaker 1: not in the least. Yeah. Yeah, I can't be fault
Speaker 1: for what he did. And that's what I had to
Speaker 1: tell myself. Yeah, you feel like that, that's kind of
Speaker 1: your anger is kind of smooth enough. It is, It
Speaker 1: is smooth enough. It has too. I got four babies.
Speaker 1: I just can't be got a beautiful Yes I do who. Yes,
Speaker 1: I love this man since I was a kid and
Speaker 1: all the work that he's Yes, I'm of him. I
Speaker 1: am alone. Yeah, we we just really had to re
Speaker 1: vamp and read, learn each other differently, you know, learn
Speaker 1: each other's love language, how to communicate. Also where I well,
Speaker 1: guys work, Yes, yes, you have, you have. I'm so impressed.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to grow with my family. So I just
Speaker 1: think Tasha for being vulnerable enough. This process has allowed
Speaker 1: me to hit levels of love that I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I Yes, as difficult as this time has been for you, guys,
Speaker 1: it's been a blessing it has, you know, because you're
Speaker 1: all better for it. Yes, you know, sometimes like the
Speaker 1: best part about your life would be sometimes the most
Speaker 1: darkest on the thing that might you know, you might
Speaker 1: be ashamed of. And I just knew I couldn't get
Speaker 1: stuck and be another story, um, of somebody who just
Speaker 1: lost his mind and then disappeared. And I had a
Speaker 1: redemption story to tell that part. Well, you know, I
Speaker 1: also have to say, you know, as far as I'm
Speaker 1: proud of the community that has surrounded you and supported you. Um,
Speaker 1: and we got a message from some folks. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: been has been a journey. I'm very proud of man
Speaker 1: you've become. And I appreciate the brothers you've been for
Speaker 1: me in my entire life. Thank you for helping me
Speaker 1: become not only a better basketball player, better better person.
Speaker 1: You are a leader of men, um, You're an important
Speaker 1: figure in all our lives. I know that Doc has
Speaker 1: been like one of your number one your number one supporter, um,
Speaker 1: but he has more to tell you. Yeah, So just first,
Speaker 1: how you doing. I'm doing great? So Doc, I gotta
Speaker 1: show you this. You didn't get to see this, Doc.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I had to get that team that
Speaker 1: Dot gave us when I was with the Celtics and
Speaker 1: the goals in order to me to be all that
Speaker 1: I could be. I need you to be all you
Speaker 1: can be so that we could be all that we
Speaker 1: could be. It's an African word and so like that's
Speaker 1: something that just really really, you know, resonated with me.
Speaker 1: And man, the fact that you showed up for me. Man,
Speaker 1: you don't leave me. You want to know where you
Speaker 1: know you saw me, you know through you know that experience. Man,
Speaker 1: it just it's life changing for me. So I just
Speaker 1: you know you love always for that coach, love you
Speaker 1: love you always. Just she was like the silent like
Speaker 1: warrior him. You know you really were Like it's amazing
Speaker 1: and everyone always says what you were going through. And
Speaker 1: I remember telling that Marie. I think Tash is going
Speaker 1: you know, she's got two kids. And when that call came,
Speaker 1: I swear I was on the golf course and I
Speaker 1: don't walk off the golf course just anybody. I ran like,
Speaker 1: I was like, no, this is you were there man
Speaker 1: when you were struggling. You know, we all became sad
Speaker 1: like as a group, our team, and I did. And
Speaker 1: you know, we go back to that one day when
Speaker 1: I walked in that mental institution and you know, I
Speaker 1: told you later like the first thing I thought was
Speaker 1: this man is he didn't belong here? Right like, we're
Speaker 1: getting him out of here. That's why Dog, I really
Speaker 1: have a lot of admiration for you as well, because
Speaker 1: you really saw this young man in trouble and you
Speaker 1: really did what you could. But we wasn't letting him
Speaker 1: go anybody then, you know, right, well, I'll be I'll
Speaker 1: be frank with you. There's times there's there's people in
Speaker 1: your life you do let go. You know there are
Speaker 1: there really are, uh, but he wasn't one of them,
Speaker 1: you know, you just I just know him. I knew him,
Speaker 1: like there's no way we're gonna let him go? What
Speaker 1: was it about him? So the spirit um he was
Speaker 1: you know, you hate to say a good one just
Speaker 1: it's such a good human being. And this was a
Speaker 1: guy we're saving. And I do think your relationship with
Speaker 1: the players was the help. I mean Rondo and all
Speaker 1: those guys. You know, Rondo could be a pain in
Speaker 1: the butt. Uh and you know that, am I right?
Speaker 1: I can need to confirm. But having said that, when
Speaker 1: this happened, Rondo was on top of it. So it's
Speaker 1: funny how like that helped me with Rondo because all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I'm like, wait a minute, Rondo is
Speaker 1: a great dude. You know, people think athletes are perfect,
Speaker 1: but we have problems just like everybody else. That's why
Speaker 1: we like coming here at the Red Table. I'm hoping
Speaker 1: that we can create um more vulnerable space for our men.
Speaker 1: Oh you know, because it's the vulnerability as well that
Speaker 1: that that nurtures the strength. We don't talk. You come
Speaker 1: on from practice and what you do to that nothing,
Speaker 1: you know, what's going on? Nothing, It's just who we are.
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know. And when we do, we
Speaker 1: do feel better about it, but we just don't share
Speaker 1: I'm guilty of that as much as anybody. I just
Speaker 1: don't I yeah, I just think it's an Unfortunately, that's
Speaker 1: why we carry wallets. You guys carry persons, y'all. Y'all
Speaker 1: got all this stuff. We don't have. We don't carry much,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't. We don't go to therapy black man.
Speaker 1: Black man, don't want to go to the dentist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's true. We don't like, we don't trust doctor. We
Speaker 1: don't trust we don't we don't trust doctors. To try
Speaker 1: to get an athlete to a therapist is brutal. It's
Speaker 1: hard because to them it's it's a sign of weakness,
Speaker 1: and you can't show weakness. The thing that I realized
Speaker 1: when I went to therapy, it was like a physical relief,
Speaker 1: like weights went off my shoulders. Not my personality was different.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I was like pop because I was mad up
Speaker 1: in their joint. Sometimes I was hopeless, like sad. But
Speaker 1: I went through all those different emotions, dropped that baggage off.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, there's so many guys carrying their whole
Speaker 1: life experience around with them, and if they really want
Speaker 1: to soar, they got to get rid of some of
Speaker 1: that emotional baggage so that they can just soar that unload.
Speaker 1: I was really grateful that I had a lot of
Speaker 1: male friends that share their experiences with me because I
Speaker 1: was as strict of where my boys were staying, where
Speaker 1: they were going as I was with my girl, because
Speaker 1: I had heard enough stories to know that it was
Speaker 1: a reality that your boys could be victimized. They look
Speaker 1: at my kids, they're all athletes, they have all been
Speaker 1: on road trip. Anything could have happened and we would
Speaker 1: have never known. Yeah, make everything so taboo. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it creates a problem. That's why people don't talk about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well we're changing that. You touched a lot of people. Man, Man,
Speaker 1: things you really did. You allowed me to doc You
Speaker 1: empowered me. You empowered me to have a voice. You know,
Speaker 1: you sat me right next to Rondo. You know one
Speaker 1: time you called me out in the locker room and
Speaker 1: you told a guy, look at him. I look back, like,
Speaker 1: who me? Look at him? He's totally giving himself to
Speaker 1: the team. And it was Rondo, it was KG was
Speaker 1: Paul Pierce was real and all these guys in the
Speaker 1: locker room and you said look at him, and man,
Speaker 1: you just empowered me like no other man, so I'm
Speaker 1: always grateful for that. We really appreciate having had the
Speaker 1: opportunity to sing with you guys. Thank you for having Yeah, seriously,
Speaker 1: thank you, Doc, thank you, thank you. Solder love right there.
Speaker 1: To join the Red table Talk family and become a
Speaker 1: part of the conversation, follow us at facebook dot com
Speaker 1: slash red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode
Speaker 1: of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio,
Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio.