1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercam. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of two and soon to be three 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: and a practicing physician. We are two working parents who 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: This is Laura. Episode sixteen. Today will be about marriage 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: and particularly the question of resentment that sometimes comes up 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: in families over work hours and who's doing what and 13 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 1: how you can make sure that you still have a 14 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: strong relationship despite those occasional feelings of resentment. So we 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: are recording this at the beginning of November, but it 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: will air just right before Thanksgiving. What are your plans 17 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: this week? Sarah? I guess you're not really traveling, are you. No, 18 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: we are not traveling, but actually we don't usually travel, 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: so it's not just due to my late trimester status. So, 20 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: as you know, we live in Miami Beach, and back 21 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: when lived in North Carolina, we would come to Miami 22 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: Beach every year. So my husband's family has a big 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: family Thanksgiving, and sometimes my family actually comes and joins it. 24 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: Other times it's just them, but traditionally we're here. So 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: ever since we moved, we have not felt the need 26 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: to go anywhere else for Thanksgiving because we're already where 27 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: the action is. And the funny thing is, I used 28 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: to think it was like the most amazing thing to 29 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: have Thanksgiving with warm weather, and I'd like wear sun dresses, 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, because it would be getting cold where I 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: was and I'd be so happy. And now I'm like 32 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: the total opposite, and I'm likeugh, I just want I 33 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: just want a little bit of a wintry, cozy feeling 34 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving, and I never get it. You want, I 35 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: call it believe right, it's all about what you don't have. 36 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: So I do think maybe next year will be the 37 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: first year that we venture up and maybe we'll be 38 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: near you guys. We can. We're a run in Philadelphia. 39 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: That sounds awesome. Yeah, we'll do our own little turkey trot. Yeah, 40 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: it's a good weekend not to travel. I gotta say 41 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: I've in my life had a few Thanksgiving weekends involving 42 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: getting stranded somewhere because everyone's traveling and it's like the 43 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: start of winter weather and it doesn't matter where the 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: winter weather is, it will affect everyone else. So be 45 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,119 Speaker 1: a blizzard in Detroit next thing, you know, no one's 46 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: going anywhere, So I'm happy not to travel too. We're 47 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: staying here, but we're hosting my entire extended family at least. 48 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: I think that's good, and I probably should confirm that. 49 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: What do you think the numbers are going to be? Oh, 50 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: it's not that. It's not. What I mean by that 51 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: is more like my immediate family, so my two brothers, 52 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: my older brother's family, my mom and dad, and then 53 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: of course the six of us who are here. So 54 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: what does that come out to. I've done it. It's 55 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: like fourteen people there. No, it's not that many. It's 56 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: not that bad. Okay, but yeah, no, I actually really 57 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: like cooking. I mean, given that it's at your in laws, 58 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: you don't need you don't wind up doing the cooking then, right, Actually, 59 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: it's a Josh's grandmother's and we all bring stuff, so 60 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: like I'll probably make I almost always make a key 61 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: line pie, which I realized is not traditional, but whatever, 62 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: and then some kind of like sweepy tooted thing and 63 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: that's it. So we kind of all bring stuff that 64 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: makes sense. You're gonna cook everything. I'm gonna cook everything. 65 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: Well we have we have like our our roles as 66 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: it were, which is a pun now that I'm thinking 67 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: about it, because my sister in law makes incredible buttery rolls. 68 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: It's great like North Carolina recipe generations, where so she 69 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: makes those for all family get togethers. There's like a 70 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: stick of butter per roll, so it's a special special treat. 71 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: So she makes those. We tend to buy pies at 72 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: Costco po. Costco has really awesome Thanksgiving pie, so we 73 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: buy like a pecan pie and a pumpkin pie. So 74 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: that's done. Like I don't have any particular pie baking 75 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: capability that I want to share with anyone, so that's 76 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: that's done. My little brother likes to make fudge, so 77 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: then we have that as a dessert. So really all 78 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: I have to do is is the turkey, the dressing. 79 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: I usually like recruit someone else to make the gravy 80 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: while I'm dealing with the turkey, because that's the last 81 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: thing you always make with the you know, drippings that 82 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: come off the turkey, and then like green beans, apple sauce, 83 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: which my older brother tends to make, what else like 84 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: a salad? Potatoes? Come on, there's gotta be we don't 85 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: actually do sweet potatoes. We doshed potatoes. I like sweat potatoes, 86 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: but my my husband is not a big fan, so 87 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: we're sort of no. No one has spoken up in 88 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: favor of having sweet potatoes. So and the truth is, 89 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: like there's so much excess at Thanksgiving, like there's really 90 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: no one essential thing. Yeah, there's not at all. So funny, 91 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: and you know, some of the foods I've even like learned. 92 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: So I never used to like cranberry sauce, but now 93 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: I make my own cranberry sauce out of I just 94 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: buy a big bag of cranberries, also a cross. Yeah, 95 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: and you cook it down with like apple cider and sugar, 96 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: and it's actually a really good sauce. So that's it's 97 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: really good. Although my husband's family has a funness for 98 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: they love the like kind of a cantcause I think 99 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: it's like a slice up like it makes this gelatinous 100 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: little circles. They love it, and I kind of get it. 101 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: I kind of get it. There is a little bit 102 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: of an appeal. I think it's a retro kind of 103 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: a retro sort of the real stuff. Yes, I prefer 104 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: I guess yeah, yeah, although I always sort of misjudge 105 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: the timing on the turkey, and so everything else is 106 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: done like forty five minutes before the turkey, and then 107 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: we all just have to like cool our heels for 108 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: a while and just pour another glass of wine. That's perfect. Yeah. 109 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: I cooked my first Thanksgiving dinner. I don't know what 110 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: it was a couple of years ago. I was like, oh, 111 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: I've I've crossed that threshold. I feel like that's an 112 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: adulthood market. I think we did it in North Carolina 113 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: a couple of times when we didn't feel like traveling, 114 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: So I guess there's been a couple of exceptions when 115 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: one of us was on call. And yeah, you do 116 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: feel very grown up making all those things so much 117 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: cooking for it, like doesn't take that much time to eat. 118 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: But it's fun. It's all good. So other things we 119 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: are thankful for. Another wonderful segue here, Yes, that's a 120 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: good one, was our husband. We are both thankful for 121 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: our husbands, who are great guys. How long have you 122 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: been married now, we have been married for eleven years 123 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: and we have been together for fifteen years. Yeah, we 124 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: met when we were well. I was I was only 125 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:43,239 Speaker 1: twenty two. I was like a kid basically, So hi Josh, 126 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: Hi Josh. Listen to Sarah talking about you, and you 127 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: were in You were in school then, right, you were. Yes, 128 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: we met in the very beginning of med school, and 129 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: then we were dating by the first test. And we 130 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: always like to joke that we didn't do very well 131 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: in the first test, but it was okay for each other. 132 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: And then you got married after med school or got married. 133 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: I think I had still one year of med school left, 134 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: but he was done, so it was right before. It 135 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: was two thousand and six, was like a year or 136 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: two ahead of you. He remember a student. Listeners will remember, No, 137 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. So remember I quit my PhD. So 138 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: we started at the same time. But I ended up 139 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: with an extra year of school and got my master's, 140 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: so I ended up finishing a year after him, even 141 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: though we started at the same time. So we got 142 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: married right before my fourth year of med school. So 143 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: we were actually doctor and missus for like a year 144 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: before you were doctor and doctor exactly, yes, exactly, which 145 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: we'll do a later episode on gender stereotypes. But every 146 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: time you see mister and doctor, does it give you 147 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: a little pause, like you're like, wait a minute, mister interesting. 148 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: I feel like I should say doctor and miss I 149 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: don't know that's interesting. Yeah. True. How long have you 150 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: guys been together? Well, we met in early two thousand 151 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: and three, so I was I was twenty three, so yeah, 152 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: not far off you guys, although my husband was far 153 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: off all of us in terms of he's a wee 154 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: bit older, but it was. Yeah. I went to a 155 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: get together. One of my friends, good friends from college, 156 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: had just started dating a guy who actually worked with Michael. 157 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: They worked in the New Jersey office of their company, 158 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: but lived both of them lived in New York. And 159 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: there was a get together in New York for people 160 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,239 Speaker 1: who were in the New Jersey office. And my friend 161 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: went to see her boyfriend at this and I think 162 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: was possibly a wee bit bored. She was texting all 163 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: her friends to like, come meet her at this bar. 164 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: So I was out with friends doing something else and 165 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, well, that looks fun. I'll just go 166 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: find her, and so I went to the bar and 167 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: next thing I know, I'm talking to this guy at 168 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: the bar and went from there. Wow, yeah, similar, And 169 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: yeah you have the I think we have a little 170 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: bit of an age difference too, and I think you 171 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: have more, but maybe as a twenty two or twenty 172 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: three year old. That just added to the mississipist. I know, 173 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: it's like, whow, my boyfriend's in his thirties, but of 174 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: course now seems like very young. But yeah, no, he was. 175 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: I mean the thing about that though, is he I 176 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: think he was in the hunt for a wife. So 177 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: he proposed exactly one year after we met, which he 178 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: he sort of had made clear as he thought was 179 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 1: as soon as he could do it that I wouldn't 180 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: be totally freaked out. Oh I think that's kind of 181 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: sweet though, Like he knew from the very beginning, so 182 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: he knew that that was he had to wait, that 183 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: he couldn't we tell this story he actually on It 184 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: was like our third date or something. His parents were 185 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: visiting him in New York and he took me to 186 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: meet them, and he may have been a wee bit 187 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: inebriated because he was nervous. He was self medicating, medicating, 188 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: and he wound up. He's like he told his parents 189 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: that we were engaged. And I was like what, but 190 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: it's oh wow. And then and then he walked you 191 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: back to and he stood there on the sidewalk being like, 192 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: I love you, I love you. I was like, whoa, 193 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: this is a little crazy. But it turned out that 194 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: it was true, just premature. So that's uh, you know, 195 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: And how many years are you now? Similar? Right? What 196 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: we got married, you know, shortly after the very right faster, 197 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: so it was we have been married thirteen years now 198 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: and been together for yeah, so same amazing. So we 199 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: are grateful. We are very grateful. We are, which brings 200 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: us to this listener question because we wanted to get 201 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: that out of the way first. So Sarah, you want 202 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 1: to read it, yes, okay, Hi, Sarah. I love the podcast, 203 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: Thank you, And I have a follow up question after 204 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: listening to this morning's episode, which mostly came to me 205 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: after hearing Chavan's story of her being on with the kids, 206 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: and that was episode number eleven, by the way, if 207 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: anybody wants to reference that. Because her husband has longer 208 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: commute and work hours during the week, I know this 209 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: is similar to you and Josh, since his chosen field 210 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: is just more demanding of time. How do you work 211 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: through the hope few moments of resenting your husband for 212 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: the imbalance of time caring for children. Let me explain, 213 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: like many of you, my husband's job is just more 214 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: demanding than mine from a time and flexibility perspective. I 215 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: knew this going into the relationship, and I knew this 216 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: when we decided to have a child, and I still 217 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: know it as we consider a second child. These are 218 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: all conscious choices we signed up for this. My husband 219 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: does a lot for our family, but the reality is 220 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: that I take on more childcare responsibilities than he does, 221 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: even with some outsourcing. And for the most part, that 222 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: is fine. But I do occasionally have these moments of 223 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: resentment because it's just not fair. She had a little 224 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: doctumatic there exactly. Do you have advice for working out 225 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: through these moments? Thanks for considering, Laars. You want to 226 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: go first, I'll put you in that seat. Well, you 227 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: know it's Sarah. I've had discussions about this and the 228 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: past offline from the podcast, because yes, we are both 229 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: in a situation where our husband do work more hours 230 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: than us, and sometimes in sort of less flexible ways 231 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: in the sense of you know, Josh doing his surgeries 232 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: and then having weekend call. You know that he's really 233 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: in the hospital for all of it. And my husband 234 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: is in one of the major consulting firms, and so 235 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot of travel associated with that, which you 236 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: know is the nature of the job. And so yeah, 237 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: we both of us wind up in situations where we 238 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: could at times feel a bit resentful of it, because 239 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: it's not like both of us said like, oh, yeah, 240 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: that's it. We want our husbands to build their careers 241 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: and we're going to take care of everything on the 242 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: home front so that they can go do that, because 243 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: both of us really truly love what we do as well, right, yes, 244 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: And so I think that the resentment comes from us say, well, 245 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: that's not the arrangement we had. We didn't have an 246 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: arrangement where like I run the home front, you go 247 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: do your saying it's like, well, I want to succeed 248 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: in my career too, And I think sometimes it can 249 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: feel like you don't have the same level of support you. 250 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: I'm saying broadly here, not Sarah you, but all we 251 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: not have the same level of support that we feel 252 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: like we would be giving to our spouse's you know, 253 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: with again someone with our jobs if we were male. 254 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: All right, Like you know Sarah as a physician, Many 255 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: physicians who are male have wives who do a lot, 256 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: you know. And actually many physicians who are female have 257 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: husbands who I one of my former mentors her husband 258 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: actually he used to work and then like I think 259 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: two or three years into her being in attending, he 260 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: just stopped and started staying home. And so she had 261 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: this like wonderful stay at home dad kind of like 262 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: cooking and cleaning and doing everything all of a sudden. 263 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that's a better situation. It is 264 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: just a different situation. But sometimes it can. Just you 265 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: get compared even when you don't want to. Yeah, I 266 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: compare it. I'll like that word. I was like, this 267 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: is the worst word. How would I even spell that. 268 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: I'm pondering what's the right word for I don't know, Well, 269 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: resentful is the woman word? This woman where I used 270 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: and and I think there is some element of resentment 271 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: of comparing. For example that you know, I feel like 272 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: when I travel for work, we almost always have our 273 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: nanny spending the night, whereas most of the time when 274 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: my husband travels, I'm the one covering, right. And so 275 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: there was an article we both read in Harvard Business 276 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: Review recently. You've got that pulled up and yes, I 277 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: have the reference. So it is called if you can't 278 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: find a spouse who supports your career, stay single by 279 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: a Viva Wittenberg Cox, which wasn't really the point of 280 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: the article, by the one bit, more of a yeah, 281 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: that might have been a little bit of a click headline. 282 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: She was trying to shock you into reading it, and 283 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: it worked. It totally worked. But she talked about she 284 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: did kind of talk about a little bit about a 285 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: trend in women that sort of voluntarily what is marriages 286 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: feeling equal then sort of stepping down because the husband's 287 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: career ended up taking taking off and then resenting it 288 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: and leaving the marriage. So actually, I mean, to some extent, 289 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: that's that's they didn't stay. They became single later that 290 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: they felt that their husband wasn't supporting their hopes and 291 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: goals and they felt they wanted to marriage where that happened, 292 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: and you know, and one of the things she talked 293 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: about is what were the parenting void is how She 294 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: put it that what these women didn't think they would 295 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: have to deal with is that they when they needed 296 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: to invest in their careers at certain points, they didn't 297 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: feel like their husband was filling in with the support 298 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: that they would have given if he needed to sort 299 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: of put his you know, foot on gas for a while. 300 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: And so I think that that sense of avoid like 301 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: it can can make people resentful. But we, I mean, 302 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: we've both thought about this a lot, and Sarah came 303 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: up with a list of things that she's sort of 304 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: done to help her deal with, you know, the idea 305 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: of you know, working really hard and then covering his 306 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: call and such like that. And I'll be honest, I 307 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: mean the reason I have sort of thoughtfully come up 308 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: with this list is because there are moments when, even 309 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: though I know that we've kind of designed things how 310 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: we've designed them, it's just instinctual when certain things happen 311 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: to have that same feeling that the writer described, and 312 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: resentment really is the best word for it, like how 313 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: did I end up in this kind of situation? How 314 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: is this fair? But the things that have helped is 315 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: number one, not to worry about keeping score and try 316 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: not to focus on what his situation is versus my situation, 317 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: but instead focus on what is my situation relevant to 318 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: what I want my situation to be, So focusing not 319 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: on what he's doing or whether he's getting more time 320 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: than me or whatever, But am I getting what I need? 321 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: You know, the too happy parents is much more the 322 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: goal than equality. And I'm not saying that in like 323 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: an anti women's liberation kind of a situation. I'm saying 324 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: that as someone who really did pick a career that 325 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: does have more flexibility than his does. And I really 326 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: do hope there are many couples out there mirroring us, 327 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: where the female is more in my position or in 328 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,479 Speaker 1: his position, and the male is more in his position 329 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: or you know. Of course, same sex couples are a 330 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: whole different story altogether and tend to have less issues here, 331 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: oddly enough. But anyway, the focus should be on me. 332 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: So if during the weekend, I want to work out 333 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: twice and get an app and go to a social activity, 334 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: then that's kind of my goal and it doesn't matter 335 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: if as long as those are met, there's really not 336 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: a reason for me to be fixated on who's doing 337 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: more of the grunt work or childcare or you know, 338 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: focus more on like what's going on in the home. 339 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: So I focus more on like does that mean I 340 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: need childcare? Does that mean I need to plan a 341 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: plate because I'd much be happier out of the house 342 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: doing something social then stuck at home. And as we've 343 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: talked about previously, it means talking and thinking through these 344 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: in advance with my husband so that it's like, Okay, 345 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: I know what kind of work do you need to 346 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: get one this weekend? This is what I want to do, 347 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: and then actually working the logistics of that app and 348 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: that helps us. And when we don't do it, then 349 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: I usually learn my lesson and I get those resentful feelings. 350 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, usually I then go back to planning the 351 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: next weekend. Planning is always good. And then I love 352 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: your idea of assuming the worst, right, Like, this is 353 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: all about expectations from unmet expectations. So if the so 354 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: it's a reality, can't change, you can change your expects. No, 355 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: I think that's total. I think it's actually true. And 356 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: I used to sort of be like, oh, you know, 357 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: like he's on call, but maybe he'll be here for this, 358 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: or like, you know, brude about him not being home 359 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: at night, but instead I sort of reframed it as 360 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: like he's generally not available to be home at night. 361 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: That's my time and my time to enjoy with the 362 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: kids and enjoy with maybe my book. If he doesn't 363 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: get home by a certain point, it's kind of like 364 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: me time, And if he's on call, I'd rather just 365 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: pretend in my mind like he's gonna be gone all day, 366 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: and then I can be pleasantly surprised if he's not 367 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: gone all day, but I won't be spending the time thinking, oh, what, 368 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: you know, I plan for this and it didn't happen. 369 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,959 Speaker 1: So it's actually much better to just sort of like 370 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: give him a longer window than I think he even 371 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: needs and then be pleasantly surprised. And then finally, my 372 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: third thing that I came up with was really the 373 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: whole childcare thing. We've talked about this before. There is 374 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: definitely a guilt factor in hiring childcare at times, but 375 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: when you're in a partnership like this, where you're part 376 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: might work a lot more, you are not hiring your childcare. 377 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: We've said this, but I'm just saying it again to 378 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,959 Speaker 1: cover yourself. You're hiring it to cover them so that 379 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: you can get some breathing room. And you know, in 380 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: our case, this translated into when I went eighty percent 381 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: time and I'm recording this, you know right now in 382 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: one of my days off. You know, I initially thought, oh, 383 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: maybe I won't really need childcare during that time, but 384 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: you know, it turned out I definitely do need and 385 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,239 Speaker 1: want it because it's having this extra time during the 386 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: week that has kind of allowed me to feel much 387 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: more at peace on what happens on some weekends. Like 388 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: so I think I've been better about actually, and he's 389 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: been happy about, like, I'll give him a larger chunk 390 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: to get work done on the weekends because I've had 391 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: that free time during the week, which I wouldn't have 392 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: had if I hadn't sort of just admitted my need 393 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: to have some coverage on these days off. So I 394 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: am pro getting the help you need. Yeah, definitely pro 395 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: getting help. I mean, that's something that's really helped me 396 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: is having the evening child care because I the hours 397 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: of like six to eight were always the most stressful 398 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: of my day, and now we're they're not unstressful. I mean, 399 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 1: like we have four children, there's more than enough work 400 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: to go around, but I don't have to handle them 401 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: by myself, and that right, and as many people don't 402 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: because usually they would have a have a partner. If 403 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: if you have your partner there, the partner can be 404 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: doing something, you know, and and so if that wasn't 405 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: going to be in the cards, then having someone else 406 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 1: around to help is again it's not I'm still there. 407 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: I mean I'm here, So it's uh, we're outsourcing him, 408 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 1: not not me. And you know, obviously there's a financial 409 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 1: aspect to it. But one thing I would say that 410 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: can you know on the resentment question, I do kind 411 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: of feel like, ideally, if your partner is working the 412 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: sort of job that is the long hours or travel 413 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: or you know, heavy call or whatever, that their compensation 414 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: justifies it. And if that is not the case, then 415 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: I think that is a different discussion. And I do 416 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: feel my heart goes out to people who are like 417 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,479 Speaker 1: in the training years, you know, like having and that's 418 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: why I like having kids in residency. As much as 419 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: I encourage it, I acknowledge how incredibly difficult that must 420 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,719 Speaker 1: be to have like maybe two residant parents because you 421 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: are in that extremely intense place maybe en route to 422 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: having good compensation, but it's not there yet. So those 423 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: are special and difficult situations. But regardless of what situation 424 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: you are in, and yes, shout out to you know, 425 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: spend spend money to make your life easier. And even 426 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: if you are in those I mean, maybe those are 427 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: the years you're not saving any money, like just just 428 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: put that up or that you borrowing. It will be okay. 429 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: Kids will be older, so yeah, it'll be fine. Fine. 430 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: But just like general communication about things, I love you. 431 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: Sarah has said something. I had to forward this to 432 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: my husband because I was like, ooh, we need to 433 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: do that. You're having a summit this weekend. I love 434 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: that idea, Like I say, yes, we come it like 435 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: there will be translators maybe, like we call it a summit. 436 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: I think this week and we've actually we're like long, 437 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: we're long overdue for one. I like to do one 438 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: every couple of months, and I think it's been even 439 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: longer than that where we have no kids to distract us. 440 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: Where it's ideally like not late at night, like during 441 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: the day when we're fresher in the morning and we 442 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: talk about like what we want the calendar to look like, 443 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: what's working, what's not working. I mean right now, I 444 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: think what one major thing we need to decide is 445 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: like how we want to put our twenty eighteen call 446 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: schedules together, because with a third kid, our current system 447 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: might not work anyway. But yes, this the summit. I 448 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: think the communication is really important, and I think many people, 449 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: if you're like us, you kind of have to schedule 450 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: it in as unromantic as that may seem, having these discussions, 451 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: because otherwise it might never happen. Yeah, it probably won't happen, 452 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: I can. I mean, you're not going to feel suddenly 453 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: inspired to like discuss your life and magic not have 454 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: the children be there. That's unlikely to just be in 455 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: the cards for the weekend. So yeah, no, I think 456 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: we need to do one of those, you know, for 457 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: just lots of things, like discussing, well, what is our 458 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: actual policy on screen time in the house right, Like 459 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: maybe we should have one, Yeah, parenting discussions. Is stuff 460 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: going okay with the kids school? You know? Does everybody 461 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: feel like they're getting the right amount of time for 462 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: themselves or on weekends? Is the childcare situation perfect? All 463 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: those kind of logistical things. And I have heard of 464 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: people doing family meetings with the kids, especially when they 465 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: get older. And I think that sounds fantastic, but I 466 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: have a feeling that even when I if we get 467 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: to that point, we'd want to have like a private segment. 468 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: Well then a publicis I have a private sment, which 469 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: I mean is Another thing in terms of keeping resentments 470 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: at bay is to make sure that you are still 471 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: investing in your relationship, like as a relationship, as a 472 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: love affair, because if you think about it, like when 473 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: your first dating and you're like madly in love and 474 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: all that, Like if if your partner was like late 475 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: for something, you would have been so much more inclined 476 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: to believe like, oh, he just got stuck in traffic, 477 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, or like something came up, like he couldn't 478 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: get out of it, Like you're not imagine you know, 479 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: immediately being like it's because he's a horrible person who 480 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: doesn't value my time, right, Like that's not the first 481 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: thing you would have thought it's mad at all. And 482 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: so it might help to get that mindset back. And 483 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: one of the ways you do that is by trying 484 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: as much as possible to keep some element of that 485 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, mad love affair, your spark. Yeah, no, absolutely 486 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: I mean, we all have to remember that our marriages 487 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: and partnerships are actually longer lasting, you know, than are 488 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: the time our kids are at home. And of course 489 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: parenting doesn't stop when your children go to college, but 490 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: it's your partner that you're gonna be with, hopefully until 491 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: the very end. So it's really worth investing that time. Yeah, yeah, 492 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: which is not always easy. And you know, can we 493 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: go there, Sarah? Can we Is this a family family podcast? 494 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: Are we going into the topic of time for intimate 495 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: relations A couple of times, a couple of time, whatever 496 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: euphemism we want to use. The problem with children though, 497 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,719 Speaker 1: is like, I mean, it's worse than if I don't know, 498 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: there's like no time. It seems that they're not around. 499 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: And especially now that my kids are staying up later, 500 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 1: I don't stay up. That's the problem. So my ten 501 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: year old will like still be wandering the halls. You 502 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: got to get back in bed. It's ten o'clock at night, 503 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: but I'm not tired go to bed. Oh my goodness. 504 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: I feel like you could set like I don't know, curfew. 505 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: You have to pursue a week to stay after this 506 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: also sound machines from and I mean another you know, 507 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: side effect of our two year old giving up his 508 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: nap on weekends is that was you know, nice couple 509 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: times as well, but it's not there even though this 510 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: is a family podcast. I agree. I think that's a 511 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: really important part of relationships too, and part of what 512 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: keeps them long lasting and real and making people feel 513 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: closer together as well, like in more that you are 514 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: a couple and not someone you need to be resenting 515 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: that this is you know, the person you love and 516 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: wish to spend your life with. So that's never never 517 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: an easy thing. But marriages are not easy. I just 518 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: reviewed this book for the Wall Street Journal. It was 519 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: called The All or Nothing Marriage, and it pointed out 520 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: that marriages have definitely evolved in what we want from 521 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: them that in the past. I mean, at first, there's 522 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: you know, property and protection from marauding whatever, you know, 523 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: bands of thieves or something, and procreation, and you know, 524 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: then in like the eighteen hundreds, the whole idea of 525 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 1: romantic love got into it. That that was really not 526 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: something that was that was treated much as an important 527 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: part of any of this, you know before then. But 528 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: now what we want from our marriage is someone who 529 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: helps us become our best selves, which is kind of 530 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: a lot to ask of a partnership. You know that 531 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: we want it to be not only the sort of 532 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: passion we had as you know when we were first together. 533 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: We want somebody who's our soulmate, and getting that takes 534 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: a ton of work from both parties. And what happens 535 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: is that people kind of run out of steam, especially 536 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: during the busy years you're building your career, raising your 537 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: young children, and you know, in the past, I think 538 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: people might have sort of accepted that as like such 539 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: as the human condition, right, like imagine that. But now 540 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: we're surrounded by these ideas that like I don't know, 541 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: I mean, people have in their vows stuff like well 542 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: we watch the same TV shows like come on, you 543 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: know that's really not If you think that that's like 544 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: everything has to be so in tune like that, well yeah, 545 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna be horribly disappointed. It's the idea of the 546 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: expectations versus reality. Again, So there is something to be 547 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: said of, at least during the busney years maybe seeing 548 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: if there are sometimes that you can ask a little 549 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: bit less from your partnership that you know, in terms 550 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: of helping you become your best self, like maybe there's 551 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: a therapist or something you can see for a while, 552 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: and if you need the companionship their you know, friendships 553 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: need to be a little bit more without or extended 554 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: family that you can lean on for more help with 555 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: the childcare or paid childcare and things like that. And 556 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: then as the kids get older and again as you 557 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: get out of that sort of desperately busy phase, you 558 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: can start getting back to more of those things with 559 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: your relationship. That made me think of the book we 560 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: discussed in the prior episode, The Course of Love, which 561 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: I think like looks at that really nicely in a 562 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: fictional way. And then also Aziz I'm sorry wrote a 563 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: book called Modern Romance where he also kind of goes 564 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: into the historical context of relationships. And you know, back 565 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: in the day, people were very likely to marry their neighbor, 566 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: and you're right, they didn't expect much about them. It 567 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: was like taking care of each other and that's about it. 568 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: And now we want we expect everything. And that's an 569 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: interesting way to think about it that maybe there are 570 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: sometimes when actually you can release some of those a 571 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: little bit when you need to, and you can still 572 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: want a lot from your partnership if you should. And 573 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: I think we've both done pretty well in that. I 574 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: mean again reiterating, I feel very lucky. So that's good 575 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: we do. So bringing us to our husbands are our 576 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: first love of the week, but our second love of 577 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: the week, what did you quite this is? Yeah, we're 578 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: going to make a like you turned her? Oh, I like, 579 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: I love what you did this one. So our love 580 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: of the week is that we finally got our car. 581 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: But the car is not the love. It's the fact 582 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: that we used a car broker. So I never knew 583 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: this was a thing. But my husband, who I will say, 584 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: is a much better you know, we've talked about like 585 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: satisfy their maximizer, like he's going to look into things 586 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: a lot more than I will. And I'll give him 587 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: credit for that because sometimes this probably is a good idea. 588 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: And he figured out that there's a thing called a 589 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: car broker where you just pay them a fee and 590 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: it's not like a crazy fee, and they'll find you 591 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: a deal and get you a car and you don't 592 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: even have to go into the dealership. So we wanted 593 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: a highland or hybrid, which are not super easy to find, 594 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: and in fact, we ended up having to get our 595 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: car shipped from like near Orlando, so you know the 596 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: religistics involved. But our part of the deal just ended 597 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: up being paying this guy and he ended up getting 598 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: us a much better deal so that it paid for itself. 599 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: And then we just had to like sign a bunch 600 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: of paper on that was FedEx to us and that 601 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: was it, and our car is coming. So I highly 602 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: recommend considering this option if you know what you want 603 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: and you don't want to go through the ordeal of 604 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: like haggling at the dealership and shopping around to local places. 605 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: And you know, neither Josh nor I are a very 606 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: good negotiators, so this was a great way of just 607 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: taking us out of the loop. Yeah, that's great. When 608 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: I bought my car, it was like six and a 609 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: half years ago, I knew I wanted an accurate MDX, 610 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: and so what I did is I just emailed half 611 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: a dozen car dealerships, like in you know, within one 612 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: hundred miles and asked what price they would give me, 613 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: and one a couple gave me like an actual price, 614 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: because you know, if we were buying it new, and 615 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: so it's it's kind of a commodity like this. You know, 616 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: the new cars, so certain the packages make things different 617 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: all the time. Now, but you know this is the 618 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: new model. Certain things say well, what price would you 619 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: give me? And then I got us. I took the 620 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: lowest price, and I went to my local dealer and 621 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: asked him to match up and he did. So that 622 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: was relatively easy. You were your own it's my own 623 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: car broker. But we saved all those saved all this stuff, 624 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: So there you go. Plus, I guess the argument is that, 625 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: like the broker may have better negotiating if he's there 626 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: all the time. You know, all these guys, they know him, 627 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: and you know so exactly. He may know who needs 628 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: to move a model, you know, off the showroom in 629 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: the next Yes, that's so. Yeah. So my love of 630 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: the week is related to the car thing, just because 631 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: it's my serious XM radio, specifically Channel seventeen, which hopefully 632 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: they won't have gotten rid of by the time this 633 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: episode airs, because it's relatively new. But it's this. It's 634 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: called pop Rocks and what it is I swear it 635 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: must have hatched from the brain of somebody who is 636 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: precisely between the ages of thirty six and forty because 637 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: It is all late nineteen nineties early two thousands. The 638 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: tagline is rock songs that became pop hits. But basically 639 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: it's just like slightly harder edge pop. So it's stuff 640 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: like Dave Matthew's been I know it was Alanis Morris 641 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: sat Smashing Pumpkins. All. This is so oh very but 642 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: but it's like perfect for me. That's so funny. I 643 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,720 Speaker 1: feel like it was me who designed this radio station. 644 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: So I've been listening to it all the time. I 645 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: say that the proportion of songs I like from it 646 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: is much higher than it was at the other two 647 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: stations I was listening to, which were the Pulse which 648 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: was fifteen, and the Blend, which was sixteen. I just 649 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: got tired of them now. I was it was too 650 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: much poppy. I'm a number thirty five XMU like nerdy music. 651 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: It is thirty five. It's like indie. It's really good, 652 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: but it's like it's sort of a quiet you have 653 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: to like start listening to it, and then it's because 654 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: it seems really weird at first, and then and then 655 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: you start liking it. But I could see the appeal 656 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: for just sort of like the sing along older stuff 657 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: that might be I don't have to check out, so 658 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: you have to check it because channel seventeen. And it's 659 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: funny because they play like messages from listeners who have 660 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: been enjoying it, and they are all exactly people like me. 661 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: They'll be like, oh, I'm so glad to hear these 662 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: songs from when I was in college. Again like yes, 663 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 1: and I was born in nineteen eight. Again, I'm sure 664 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 1: it's a very bad you know it. That's the same 665 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: demographic that probably subscribes to a lot of that'll light radio, 666 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: so they I bet it will stay around, Sarah. Those 667 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: of us who are in our cars, driving to work, 668 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: driving the kids around, we're all like thirty eight years old. 669 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: There we go. So anyway, this has been best of 670 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: both worlds. We've been talking marriage this week and how 671 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: to keep ourselves from feeling resentful as things come up, 672 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: So please tune in next week. We'll have more on 673 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You 674 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or 675 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you can 676 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 677 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: been the best of both Worlds Podcasts. Please join us 678 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.