WEBVTT - Allison Jones 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:17.080 This is Alison Jones, casting director from the Office. Hello everybody, 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.960 and welcome back to the Office Deep Dive. I'm your 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:26.800 host Brian Baumgartner. Today you're going to be hearing my 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:32.080 interview with Alison Jones, the casting director of the Office, 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:38.319 the the person responsible for putting together the ensemble, our 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:43.920 merry band of misfits on the Office. Now, you might 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.560 think after casting her job was done, she was gone. 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.599 That is that is not true. Allison was involved throughout 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.360 the entire series, right, So every actor that comes on 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:01.280 to the Office, even for one episode, she was um 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:05.639 responsible working with the directors and the writers casting those roles. 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.720 So from a guest star spot who just appears in 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:13.760 one episodes two people like Rashida Jones, Cathy Bates, Idris Elba. 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.880 She works with the writers and the directors every week 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:23.520 um to cast these characters. So Allison has the most 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.920 amazing stories to tell, not even just about the Office. 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:32.000 She has worked on so many incredible shows and movies. 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:39.120 She is truly known as the greatest comedy casting director today. UM, 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:49.160 So enjoy Allison Jones. Bubble and Squeak. I love it, 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:56.640 Bubble and Squeak, Bubble and squeaker cookie every month lift 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:10.960 over from the nut. People look at you fancy? How 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.320 are you good? I'm so happy to see you. Look 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.919 at a second older. I don't know. I really don't. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:23.000 I look younger. I don't know what that is. I 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.119 have all my pilot stuff here. If you have any 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:31.400 specific you need research material. I don't love it is. Yeah, 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:35.200 I'm sorry. You're good. Are you good? I'm very well 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:39.560 and you good? Yeah, of course you are. I'm good. Well, 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.000 I don't know what quite understands what's happened with the office. 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.560 It's just going haywire. Well, I know that's kind of 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:50.440 what we're trying to figure out. Why. Because it's good. 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:55.800 I guess, I guess what is this? I feel like 0:02:55.840 --> 0:03:00.880 I'm in Good Morning Vietnam. Um this is good. This 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:05.639 is so fun. Well, the awesome thing is that, um 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.440 I even kept their silly reviews. I have a box 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.079 of stuff that I still haven't gone through. Yeah, it's 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.480 all fun. The stuff we keep, um mine is just 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.760 I printed out some emails and that kind of stuff. Right, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.600 I have a message in Phillis's writing, telling Greg where 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.600 to meet Steve Carrell at what time at what Delhi 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:32.720 in Phyllis is writing, that's so crazy. So, um, fifteen 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.400 years ago, probably this month, we were finalizing the cast. 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:41.120 Yeah yeah, well no exactly because before we filmed in 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.560 February and we started in two thousand three, because that's 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.320 when I had to I just remember that was when 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:52.200 we started everything. Right, Um, so when did you were 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.480 you aware of the British version of The Office? You 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.480 were before you were hired on you? You knew that show? Okay? 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.000 And did you like it? I loved it. I forget 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:03.520 where we could see it, but it came on the 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.000 scene at the same time or it did, and it 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:10.360 was these two new cutting edge comedy shows, and The 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.560 Office was such a big thing because people were like, 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:14.200 you're not gonna believe the show. You're not gonna believe 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.480 it's an actual show and not a documentary. So yes, 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.360 I was aware of it, okay, But at that time, 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.480 there was nothing on American television that looked like that, 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:26.080 not even close, you know, um, nothing that looked like 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.720 because everybody thought it was a documentary. It was so 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:33.000 subtly shot and it was so subtly conceived of the 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.240 only close thing would have been I guess, um Larry Sanders, 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:40.320 Larry Sanders. Yeah, and so how did you how did 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:44.839 you come on board? Probably NBC set me up with 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.080 a few other casting people to interview with Greg and 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.240 Ben and Terry over it. There a little bungalow at Universal. 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.640 So I went in thrilled, I got it, you know, 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.440 an interview for this job. And um, I do remember 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.760 saying to Phillis, this is a huge deal. This could 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.920 be a huge deal if I get this one. Um. 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:04.680 And it was a bunch of them at the table 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:09.479 and Greg was Greg you know, quiet, and you know, 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.600 so you did Freaks and Geeks and we like the 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.600 fact that you found real people on Freaks and I'm 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:20.880 imitating Gregors and Geeks and uh. After then again I 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.360 had to meet with Ben Silverman in his house up 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.120 in Mulholland Drive or something, and I remember it was 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.400 during a playoff game for the Red Sox and I 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:30.919 was waiting out. I'm a Red Sox fan and I 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:32.480 was waiting out in my car to see who won 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.240 the game. And then I went in and realized he 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.200 was also a Red Sox fan. So we were joyous 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:42.240 and I probably got the job because of the Red Sox. Yeah, 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.440 he talked about Paul and Matti at the time for 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.320 Michael Scott. Yeah, okay, so that was the first name 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.840 that came up. I probably had more names when I 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.400 talked to Greg for the actual interview, UM, but I 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.279 remember Ben mentioning Paul Giamatti and he may have also 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.320 mentioned Philip Semore Hoffman, but I for some and I 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:04.080 specifically remember him saying Paul Muddy at the time when 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:08.680 movie stars wouldn't touch television, right, wouldn't touch it the 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.680 bottom of the barrel. Yeah, so you come in, So, 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:15.120 I mean your list of stuff that you have worked 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:20.640 on is like crazy, um, starting with Family Ties, the 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:25.200 best job Ever, Golden Girls, Fresh Prince Boy meets whirl 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.440 Um and then there seemed to be like a shift 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.640 with Freaks and Geeks. I mean, Freaks and Geeks was 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.400 kind of the first cool show I worked on, and 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.039 sort of non networking show, which is probably what it failed. 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.599 But definitely Judd Apatow and Paul f changed the whole 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:45.000 scene and in UM, the style of the comedy, the writing, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:50.719 the not the sitcom rhythm, the reality rhythm, the non 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.120 beautiful people rhythm. With all due respect to you, Brian, 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.960 A full respect but completely the first time I'd ever 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.480 done anything like that because all the team shows at 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.200 the time, the kids had to be beautiful. Yeah. I 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.760 had just finished a pilot called Roswell High, and every 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.000 kid had to look like the kids from um Dawson's 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.160 Creek and it was torture and every kid had to 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.600 be beautiful and blah blah blah blah. And we tested 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:19.520 Heath Ledger and he wasn't even cute enough to be 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.240 on the show, according to the head of Fox. So 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.320 all the rejects from that I gladly brought in for 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.800 Freaks and Geeks because they were so much more interesting 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:30.880 and talented. And it was great that Paul and Judd 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:35.360 just wanted real kids. But Greg had seen Freaks and Geeks. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.000 That was the first thing he brought up. So Paul Feig, 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.480 in this New Yorker piece said that you will be 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.040 recognized as having changed the face of comedy as much 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:51.920 as any comedy filmmaker. What what do you think he 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:55.720 meant by that? I think just bringing in um real 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.560 people who also were talented and funny and unique. Yeah, 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.640 brought their own version of comedy too, whatever character it was. 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.080 Plus I did start in comedy, and it was you know, 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.640 the Family Ties and Benson. They were all sitcoms and 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:14.800 you needed I instantly started to learn all the comics 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:16.920 out there, and which meant you had to physically do 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:18.960 the legwork and go to the comedy store ten nights 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:20.520 in a row and go to the improv ten nights 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:25.120 in a row. Um comics not necessarily being the most 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.680 together people, God bless them, but right away hitting the 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:30.640 ground running. I brought in all the stand ups and 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.640 stuff for if you watch Golden Girls, will occasionally see 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.640 you know, Don Mare is serving Betty White or something. 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.079 I was always bringing in stand ups that made sense 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.040 to me and for me it was based in m 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:47.640 SNL Saturday Night Live since the college, appreciating that new 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.319 version of comedy, the real smart and still at the 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:57.559 same time stupid version of comedy and Second City SCTV. 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.080 But stand ups was what we had access to at 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.600 that time, going out and doing and they rarely got 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.800 hired because their God bless him, not skilled at auditioning. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.080 You know, you'd bring a knee knie of our dollars 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:14.120 and Steve Carrell and they were usually very over the top, 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:16.319 not until jud and Paul came along. Did they think 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:21.080 that was actually a plus? And they were correct interesting? 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.560 So they would have trouble because of that, oh, I 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:27.040 think so yeah, to get by studios and things. I remember, 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.439 you know, bringing people in like David's Bad and Rob 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:34.360 Schneider and Jim Carey and Dennis Leary and they never 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.319 got hired. Adam Sandler once got hired when he was 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:40.959 probably twenty first show I was doing because the executive producer, 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.880 Richie rosen Stock, understood that his vibe was interesting and 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.760 not just being able to deliver a joke like, um, 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:54.360 I sitcom guy, right, And then that started to shift 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:59.239 that in the office with Judd and Paul in particular, 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.679 I think, and then your Adam McKay's came in and 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.400 um brought in all the Will Ferrells and all that 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:10.000 kind of thing. It definitely was birthed way back when 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.160 and prior to when I was doing it with Judd too, 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:18.320 I think, right. I think that there was also kind 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.400 of a change, like you said, from sort of that 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:29.040 traditional sitcom style to more comedies with heart, I believe. So, yeah, yeah, 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.600 was there a different type of person you were looking 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.000 for for that the first sitcom stuff we did. It 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.520 was mostly finding someone who literally could do it, could 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.560 do sitcom joke delivery. That was the first thing I 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:44.960 had to say, could they read? Could they do the jokes? 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.200 But um, the writing I think matured it a little 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:54.280 bit too. Yeah, but single camera comedy was not around, right, 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.040 so that was part of it. Absolutely not having still 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.640 took a long time to catch on to most of us. 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.640 It was pretty obvious that's the easiest to write for 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.120 you don't have to put it into a template of 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.000 writing a joke. And that was a slow evolution, right. 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.600 Sports Night was the first good one and didn't even 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.680 stay on the air, and it was so much funnier 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.920 than a sitcom. Great, did you work on Sports Night? 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.319 I did not, but I just remember thinking, wow, this 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.280 is great. There's no laft track blah blah blah blah. Right, 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.720 So it became that's so interesting that you were looking 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.240 for someone who could do it, just do it, yeah, 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.120 deliver the jokes, deliver that joke so that it hit, 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.920 so the laugh track could play right, and somebody who 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:42.600 wasn't necessarily um you know, Jack Benny, somebody who also 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:47.960 could act, not that he couldn't God bless right, so. Um. 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.400 Paul Rudd, in the same New Yorker article, said that 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.840 you have the ability to find people that your heart 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:59.280 can break for. Oh, that's very I didn't read the article, 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.880 believe it. I'm too shy to read that. I get you. 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.920 I've barely watched anything. I am very I think I'm 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.200 very empathic when it comes to actors and comedy and thinking, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.160 look at that kid from MC club and he'd be awesome. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.640 That kid has gotten beat up so much in his life, 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.599 he'd be awesome. So I think, Um, yes, that was 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:42.880 a very good way to put it. Very nice. So 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:49.400 how did you go about assembling your list for the office? Well, uh, 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.160 it was mostly leg work, auditioning, and well, we first 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.040 had to go in with a list. Nancy Perkins was 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.000 the head of casting at Universal, and we went in 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.600 with a long list of men and other names to remember. 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.319 And um, all the people at the time, half of 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.640 them wouldn't do TV, and some of them were not 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.040 people who the network would want. But um, a list 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.000 of probably thirty five names, and this is for just 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.000 for Michael Scott or for all the roles kind of 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.440 kind of the big ones. But um, those are mostly exercises. 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:20.920 Lists are really just exercises because you don't know anything 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:22.760 until you get out there and start making offers and 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.600 start reading people. But um, I I always like to 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.840 cast non star people. I think it pays off the 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.920 most in the end in terms of risk reward UM 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:40.319 finding a unique voice exactly, yes, and getting the people 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.959 that I know, have known for years can step it 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.000 up and be really interesting and really funny. Yeah. I 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.000 had cast Rain before, I had cast Jenna, before, i'd 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.000 read Steve before I hadn't had the pleasure to cast him. 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.320 But the people that we read for all these roles 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.120 were groundlings and UCB people that um just did not 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.560 get a break. So it was really fun to put 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:07.320 them together with terrifically beautiful, subtle writing and everybody. That 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:12.520 was a little a little more well received than some 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.840 other pilots because it was the Office and all those 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:20.280 people were into the Office, the British version of the Office. Um, 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.480 everybody's just assumed we'd get crucified. But we had great 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.920 people coming anyway, just happy to be doing the pilot. Right, 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.880 So you made your lists, was there anyone you didn't 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.360 know it at all? From the cast? I didn't know you. 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:37.240 I didn't know um Leslie. I didn't know Oscar and 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:38.880 I remember I had seen him in an episode of 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.080 Reno N one one. It was like, who's that freaking guy? 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.520 He's hilarious. UM. I didn't know John. I had just 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.400 met him on a general I did not know John 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.080 until he read John. Yeah, that's who. I wondered me 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.000 and John. So I've heard and I didn't know this 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.760 right because I didn't test with the other thing the 0:14:56.120 --> 0:15:00.400 testing process, the uniqueness of Yes that was that the 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.320 first time you had ever done yes, and it was 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.440 it was a um sensible choice because normally you would 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.120 go in and test at a network with a bunch 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.400 of studio executives in the head of the network sitting 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:13.720 in the back of the room, and you come in 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.400 and you're like, okay, be funny. That was the sitcom 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.200 way to do it, and it didn't matter the level 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.120 of subtlety. This one. We said, look at you're not 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.840 going to get what this person has to offer unless 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:25.520 you film it and see it what it's going to 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.720 look like on screen. So Greg was able to talk 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:31.760 them into that. So we did two days of testing, 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.800 two long days of mixing, and matching actors and Ken 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.560 directing them, and and yes, it was the first time 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.600 that has happened, I believe, at least in my experience 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:46.200 with testing for a pilot. And that made sense because 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.720 of the format of the show, which hadn't been done 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.760 before either the documentary yeah, the documentary style, and I 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.800 think yes, part of the auditions was all we had one, 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.520 one or two monologues that we let them pick from 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:01.920 that we're all of our sides were from mostly from 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:06.040 the pilot of the English office without being americanized too much, 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.160 so a lot of it sounded English coming out of 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.680 the American actor's mouths. But I remember the gym side 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.200 saying do you like a drink? I remember thinking we 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.600 don't say that. Most of the actors said the same 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:21.520 thing to do you like a drink? Yeah. The process 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.600 do you remember it taking especially long or it took 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.560 the fall of two thousand three for casting? It was 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:33.360 very time consuming because we had to make DVDs. Sorry, um, 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.160 not DVDs. We didn't have DVDs then, we had VCR. 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.120 We had half inch tapes that you had to copy 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.240 in real time to send to England. I remember doing 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:44.680 that my whole Thanksgiving was making tapes which I still 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.880 have of the Gym's, of the Michael Scott's of the 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:52.040 Palms for Ricky Gervais and Um, you know, you pressed 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.000 tape and you press play and then you had to 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.880 copy them in real time, so it was more time 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.920 consuming for everybody having to actually look at all the 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.760 tapes after getting them FedEx overnight. Um, how much was 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.600 Ricky You said you made tapes and sent them to London? 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.359 How much was Ricky did? Very much? So he didn't 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.120 win with me, that's for sure. I've never met the guy, 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.240 though I think he's genius in his golden globe stuff 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:18.520 is effing genius anyway. Um, I never met him at all, 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.879 but I know he weighed in heavily with um Greg 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.840 about casting choices. They wouldn't I'm sure if he didn't 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:26.800 like someone, they wouldn't have gone with them. So yes, 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.520 it took a little bit longer, Um, and we read 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:32.200 a lot of people, and I pre read a lot 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.280 of people. Now pickens are slimmer. You know, there's so 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.760 many shows out there that you start with a hundred 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.159 names and ten of them are available. Right then it 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.600 was more a little more freedom. Also, everybody is onto 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.679 now hiring people from the Growlings and UCB, and so 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.600 that's who they bring in first for comedy. You know. 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.399 One of my shameful things was I pre read Christin 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.760 Wig and didn't even bring her back for Greg. I'm Kristen. 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:02.480 I apologize, but um, the recall why but that's funny. 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.159 And then when I went back and looked at our audition, 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:06.560 she was terrific. She was Christin Wig doing it, and 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.760 she was terrific. She was a groundling at the time, 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:10.440 and I didn't. I just for some reason didn't bring 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.760 her back for Greg. I think maybe Jenna. Jenna was 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.240 the biggest shoe in. I think from the start of reading, 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.639 she was the first woman to read PAM. I remember 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:23.240 Terry Weinberg saying I could watch you all day, and um, 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.320 we had you know, we tested other PAMs, but I 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:29.000 think Jenna was sort of the high bar that we set. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:34.520 And how much did um the chemistry between Jenna and 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:39.440 John then impact John. I was not in the room 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.840 at the time when they were reading together, but I 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:47.520 assume it completely impacted John because Jenna John was effortless, effortless, 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:49.399 and he had mostly just I had seen him in 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.000 a commercial where he got his eyebrows shaved or something, 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.160 and I remember casting director New York Bonnie Finnigan saying, 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.240 this kid, John Krasinski is effortlessly funny. You won't believe 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.440 how he's funny. He just talks and he's funny. Jenna, 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:03.680 though lower in energy. I'm sure if you asked John 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.439 that question, he would say it hugely impacted his performance 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.920 because in his first audition he was a little more strident. 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:16.040 Jenna was always very low key interesting. Um, what were 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:21.440 you looking for between? But we haven't talked about Rain? Yeah, 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:26.320 Dwight and and Jim? Yeah, were there specific things that 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:31.600 you were looking for? Rain is so odd that would 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:33.919 have been one. Yeah, you knew that Dwight had to 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.760 be odd, just an oddball and a nerd and sort 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.000 of annoying. And Jim had to be a little cute, 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.880 a little appealing. Um, not that Rain is not. He's 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.920 very appealing. But m Rain just a comedy genius always. 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.120 He must have loved the first He mean, he first 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.600 read for Michael Scott, and I think I think he 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.120 requested that through his agent that could he also read 0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:59.840 from Michael Scott? Or maybe I just brought him in 0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:02.040 from Michael Scott. I don't recall, because he did read 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.800 for both at the time. Um, he was the first 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.560 person to read period. But I believe we mostly thought 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:10.320 he was going to be Dwight and he also wanted 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.160 to read for Michael Scott. He probably could have worked 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.080 as Michael Scott too. God, we read a lot of 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.560 good people that in some version would have worked. You know, 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.119 all these people, you know, we rejected a lot of 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.080 great people for the right. Yeah. I remember Louis c 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:24.760 k wasn't available at the time, and that was a 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:26.840 bummer because he would have been a he had to 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.880 deal at CBS. He always had a deal at CBS. 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.440 But of all the people, I wanted to bring it, 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:33.280 and Paul Gimaty just said no right off the bat 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.240 because it was a TV show, I believe. Then we 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.800 went to Philip Symore Hoffman, the late great Philip sy 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.560 Moore Hoffman, and he said no as well because it 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.960 was TV. I'm oh, yeah, And it's funny because that's 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.760 all Paul does now, right. And the great thing is 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.280 I started out I had nothing. Makes me happier to 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.159 see that TV is the new film nothing, because so 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.040 many people rejected all the TV I worked on for 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:00.360 twenty years because it was TV. It was like pit, 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.960 I don't want to do TV. And stunt casting, as 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.000 they call it now, was not really a thing when 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.159 I started. My boss, Judith Wiener, used to call it 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:10.080 love boat casting when they made us put a big 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.000 name in a role that made no sense. You know, 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:16.840 Stevie Wonders Limo breaks down outside of the Huxtable's house 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.840 and he he comes in. And so I started without 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:24.000 doing that. Um. And also for some reason, I just 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.920 thought I was supposed to find new people, and maybe 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.080 that that must have come from Judith. Go out there 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:34.040 and find new funny voices. UM. So you like casting 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:40.000 unknowns and essentially everybody unknown in this Do you remember 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:46.160 was there pushback from the network about that? Uh? Sometimes 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.560 push back from the people in the room. I remember 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:52.480 Greg and I really like Patton Oswalt for Michael Scott 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:57.360 and some of the people in the room. No, he gave, 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.200 of course a fantastic reading, and Patton was a stand 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.800 up at the time. Um. Mostly before they got to 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:06.439 the network. It was pushed packed from various people in 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:09.600 the room. The network then was not as intrusive as 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.280 they are now, they don't see every single goddamn audition 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:14.960 before they approve who's going to test. We just told 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.400 them who were testing. We made the test option deal 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.960 and showed them the tests. It wasn't everybody at a 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:26.040 certain level getting approval after approval after approval of who 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:29.280 can even go near besides, you know that that exist. 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:34.840 You can tell him sarcasm that exists now, Yeah, right. 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.320 How much discussion was there or were you aware of 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:41.960 that writers were going to end up being actors. I 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.920 think at the beginning, BJ came in, Greg said there's 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:46.119 a couple of guys I want to bring in to 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:49.560 see if they'll work as actors too, And Mandy didn't 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:51.080 have to read as far as I know, But BJ 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:53.240 came in, and well, BJ was hired as an actor. 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:55.439 He was hired as an actor. But also Greg was 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.000 cognizant effect that he was a writer as well. Greg 0:22:58.080 --> 0:22:59.720 was up front about that right away. I didn't know 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.520 Paul or anything at the time. PAULI burstin or and 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:04.600 Greg had us bringing a lot of his friends who 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.879 wrote for The Simpsons, who were awesomely weird and great, 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:10.560 who I didn't know at all. I didn't know. I didn't. 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:12.640 It was another the first time I realized writers were 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:14.280 just as funny as actors when it came to this 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:19.040 kind of comedy, if not more. Um. Some of those people, 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:26.800 god bless him, were too weird for viewing. Um. But um, 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.280 he totally was upfront about having trying to get some 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.439 people who could write end. Now there's a little funky 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:34.760