Speaker 1: This is Alison Jones, casting director from the Office. Hello everybody,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the Office Deep Dive. I'm your
Speaker 1: host Brian Baumgartner. Today you're going to be hearing my
Speaker 1: interview with Alison Jones, the casting director of the Office,
Speaker 1: the the person responsible for putting together the ensemble, our
Speaker 1: merry band of misfits on the Office. Now, you might
Speaker 1: think after casting her job was done, she was gone.
Speaker 1: That is that is not true. Allison was involved throughout
Speaker 1: the entire series, right, So every actor that comes on
Speaker 1: to the Office, even for one episode, she was um
Speaker 1: responsible working with the directors and the writers casting those roles.
Speaker 1: So from a guest star spot who just appears in
Speaker 1: one episodes two people like Rashida Jones, Cathy Bates, Idris Elba.
Speaker 1: She works with the writers and the directors every week
Speaker 1: um to cast these characters. So Allison has the most
Speaker 1: amazing stories to tell, not even just about the Office.
Speaker 1: She has worked on so many incredible shows and movies.
Speaker 1: She is truly known as the greatest comedy casting director today. UM,
Speaker 1: So enjoy Allison Jones. Bubble and Squeak. I love it,
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak, Bubble and squeaker cookie every month lift
Speaker 1: over from the nut. People look at you fancy? How
Speaker 1: are you good? I'm so happy to see you. Look
Speaker 1: at a second older. I don't know. I really don't.
Speaker 1: I look younger. I don't know what that is. I
Speaker 1: have all my pilot stuff here. If you have any
Speaker 1: specific you need research material. I don't love it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You're good. Are you good? I'm very well
Speaker 1: and you good? Yeah, of course you are. I'm good. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know what quite understands what's happened with the office.
Speaker 1: It's just going haywire. Well, I know that's kind of
Speaker 1: what we're trying to figure out. Why. Because it's good.
Speaker 1: I guess, I guess what is this? I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm in Good Morning Vietnam. Um this is good. This
Speaker 1: is so fun. Well, the awesome thing is that, um
Speaker 1: I even kept their silly reviews. I have a box
Speaker 1: of stuff that I still haven't gone through. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: all fun. The stuff we keep, um mine is just
Speaker 1: I printed out some emails and that kind of stuff. Right,
Speaker 1: I have a message in Phillis's writing, telling Greg where
Speaker 1: to meet Steve Carrell at what time at what Delhi
Speaker 1: in Phyllis is writing, that's so crazy. So, um, fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago, probably this month, we were finalizing the cast.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well no exactly because before we filmed in
Speaker 1: February and we started in two thousand three, because that's
Speaker 1: when I had to I just remember that was when
Speaker 1: we started everything. Right, Um, so when did you were
Speaker 1: you aware of the British version of The Office? You
Speaker 1: were before you were hired on you? You knew that show? Okay?
Speaker 1: And did you like it? I loved it. I forget
Speaker 1: where we could see it, but it came on the
Speaker 1: scene at the same time or it did, and it
Speaker 1: was these two new cutting edge comedy shows, and The
Speaker 1: Office was such a big thing because people were like,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna believe the show. You're not gonna believe
Speaker 1: it's an actual show and not a documentary. So yes,
Speaker 1: I was aware of it, okay, But at that time,
Speaker 1: there was nothing on American television that looked like that,
Speaker 1: not even close, you know, um, nothing that looked like
Speaker 1: because everybody thought it was a documentary. It was so
Speaker 1: subtly shot and it was so subtly conceived of the
Speaker 1: only close thing would have been I guess, um Larry Sanders,
Speaker 1: Larry Sanders. Yeah, and so how did you how did
Speaker 1: you come on board? Probably NBC set me up with
Speaker 1: a few other casting people to interview with Greg and
Speaker 1: Ben and Terry over it. There a little bungalow at Universal.
Speaker 1: So I went in thrilled, I got it, you know,
Speaker 1: an interview for this job. And um, I do remember
Speaker 1: saying to Phillis, this is a huge deal. This could
Speaker 1: be a huge deal if I get this one. Um.
Speaker 1: And it was a bunch of them at the table
Speaker 1: and Greg was Greg you know, quiet, and you know,
Speaker 1: so you did Freaks and Geeks and we like the
Speaker 1: fact that you found real people on Freaks and I'm
Speaker 1: imitating Gregors and Geeks and uh. After then again I
Speaker 1: had to meet with Ben Silverman in his house up
Speaker 1: in Mulholland Drive or something, and I remember it was
Speaker 1: during a playoff game for the Red Sox and I
Speaker 1: was waiting out. I'm a Red Sox fan and I
Speaker 1: was waiting out in my car to see who won
Speaker 1: the game. And then I went in and realized he
Speaker 1: was also a Red Sox fan. So we were joyous
Speaker 1: and I probably got the job because of the Red Sox. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he talked about Paul and Matti at the time for
Speaker 1: Michael Scott. Yeah, okay, so that was the first name
Speaker 1: that came up. I probably had more names when I
Speaker 1: talked to Greg for the actual interview, UM, but I
Speaker 1: remember Ben mentioning Paul Giamatti and he may have also
Speaker 1: mentioned Philip Semore Hoffman, but I for some and I
Speaker 1: specifically remember him saying Paul Muddy at the time when
Speaker 1: movie stars wouldn't touch television, right, wouldn't touch it the
Speaker 1: bottom of the barrel. Yeah, so you come in, So,
Speaker 1: I mean your list of stuff that you have worked
Speaker 1: on is like crazy, um, starting with Family Ties, the
Speaker 1: best job Ever, Golden Girls, Fresh Prince Boy meets whirl
Speaker 1: Um and then there seemed to be like a shift
Speaker 1: with Freaks and Geeks. I mean, Freaks and Geeks was
Speaker 1: kind of the first cool show I worked on, and
Speaker 1: sort of non networking show, which is probably what it failed.
Speaker 1: But definitely Judd Apatow and Paul f changed the whole
Speaker 1: scene and in UM, the style of the comedy, the writing,
Speaker 1: the not the sitcom rhythm, the reality rhythm, the non
Speaker 1: beautiful people rhythm. With all due respect to you, Brian,
Speaker 1: A full respect but completely the first time I'd ever
Speaker 1: done anything like that because all the team shows at
Speaker 1: the time, the kids had to be beautiful. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: had just finished a pilot called Roswell High, and every
Speaker 1: kid had to look like the kids from um Dawson's
Speaker 1: Creek and it was torture and every kid had to
Speaker 1: be beautiful and blah blah blah blah. And we tested
Speaker 1: Heath Ledger and he wasn't even cute enough to be
Speaker 1: on the show, according to the head of Fox. So
Speaker 1: all the rejects from that I gladly brought in for
Speaker 1: Freaks and Geeks because they were so much more interesting
Speaker 1: and talented. And it was great that Paul and Judd
Speaker 1: just wanted real kids. But Greg had seen Freaks and Geeks.
Speaker 1: That was the first thing he brought up. So Paul Feig,
Speaker 1: in this New Yorker piece said that you will be
Speaker 1: recognized as having changed the face of comedy as much
Speaker 1: as any comedy filmmaker. What what do you think he
Speaker 1: meant by that? I think just bringing in um real
Speaker 1: people who also were talented and funny and unique. Yeah,
Speaker 1: brought their own version of comedy too, whatever character it was.
Speaker 1: Plus I did start in comedy, and it was you know,
Speaker 1: the Family Ties and Benson. They were all sitcoms and
Speaker 1: you needed I instantly started to learn all the comics
Speaker 1: out there, and which meant you had to physically do
Speaker 1: the legwork and go to the comedy store ten nights
Speaker 1: in a row and go to the improv ten nights
Speaker 1: in a row. Um comics not necessarily being the most
Speaker 1: together people, God bless them, but right away hitting the
Speaker 1: ground running. I brought in all the stand ups and
Speaker 1: stuff for if you watch Golden Girls, will occasionally see
Speaker 1: you know, Don Mare is serving Betty White or something.
Speaker 1: I was always bringing in stand ups that made sense
Speaker 1: to me and for me it was based in m
Speaker 1: SNL Saturday Night Live since the college, appreciating that new
Speaker 1: version of comedy, the real smart and still at the
Speaker 1: same time stupid version of comedy and Second City SCTV.
Speaker 1: But stand ups was what we had access to at
Speaker 1: that time, going out and doing and they rarely got
Speaker 1: hired because their God bless him, not skilled at auditioning.
Speaker 1: You know, you'd bring a knee knie of our dollars
Speaker 1: and Steve Carrell and they were usually very over the top,
Speaker 1: not until jud and Paul came along. Did they think
Speaker 1: that was actually a plus? And they were correct interesting?
Speaker 1: So they would have trouble because of that, oh, I
Speaker 1: think so yeah, to get by studios and things. I remember,
Speaker 1: you know, bringing people in like David's Bad and Rob
Speaker 1: Schneider and Jim Carey and Dennis Leary and they never
Speaker 1: got hired. Adam Sandler once got hired when he was
Speaker 1: probably twenty first show I was doing because the executive producer,
Speaker 1: Richie rosen Stock, understood that his vibe was interesting and
Speaker 1: not just being able to deliver a joke like, um,
Speaker 1: I sitcom guy, right, And then that started to shift
Speaker 1: that in the office with Judd and Paul in particular,
Speaker 1: I think, and then your Adam McKay's came in and
Speaker 1: um brought in all the Will Ferrells and all that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. It definitely was birthed way back when
Speaker 1: and prior to when I was doing it with Judd too,
Speaker 1: I think, right. I think that there was also kind
Speaker 1: of a change, like you said, from sort of that
Speaker 1: traditional sitcom style to more comedies with heart, I believe. So, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: was there a different type of person you were looking
Speaker 1: for for that the first sitcom stuff we did. It
Speaker 1: was mostly finding someone who literally could do it, could
Speaker 1: do sitcom joke delivery. That was the first thing I
Speaker 1: had to say, could they read? Could they do the jokes?
Speaker 1: But um, the writing I think matured it a little
Speaker 1: bit too. Yeah, but single camera comedy was not around, right,
Speaker 1: so that was part of it. Absolutely not having still
Speaker 1: took a long time to catch on to most of us.
Speaker 1: It was pretty obvious that's the easiest to write for
Speaker 1: you don't have to put it into a template of
Speaker 1: writing a joke. And that was a slow evolution, right.
Speaker 1: Sports Night was the first good one and didn't even
Speaker 1: stay on the air, and it was so much funnier
Speaker 1: than a sitcom. Great, did you work on Sports Night?
Speaker 1: I did not, but I just remember thinking, wow, this
Speaker 1: is great. There's no laft track blah blah blah blah. Right,
Speaker 1: So it became that's so interesting that you were looking
Speaker 1: for someone who could do it, just do it, yeah,
Speaker 1: deliver the jokes, deliver that joke so that it hit,
Speaker 1: so the laugh track could play right, and somebody who
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily um you know, Jack Benny, somebody who also
Speaker 1: could act, not that he couldn't God bless right, so. Um.
Speaker 1: Paul Rudd, in the same New Yorker article, said that
Speaker 1: you have the ability to find people that your heart
Speaker 1: can break for. Oh, that's very I didn't read the article,
Speaker 1: believe it. I'm too shy to read that. I get you.
Speaker 1: I've barely watched anything. I am very I think I'm
Speaker 1: very empathic when it comes to actors and comedy and thinking,
Speaker 1: look at that kid from MC club and he'd be awesome.
Speaker 1: That kid has gotten beat up so much in his life,
Speaker 1: he'd be awesome. So I think, Um, yes, that was
Speaker 1: a very good way to put it. Very nice. So
Speaker 1: how did you go about assembling your list for the office? Well, uh,
Speaker 1: it was mostly leg work, auditioning, and well, we first
Speaker 1: had to go in with a list. Nancy Perkins was
Speaker 1: the head of casting at Universal, and we went in
Speaker 1: with a long list of men and other names to remember.
Speaker 1: And um, all the people at the time, half of
Speaker 1: them wouldn't do TV, and some of them were not
Speaker 1: people who the network would want. But um, a list
Speaker 1: of probably thirty five names, and this is for just
Speaker 1: for Michael Scott or for all the roles kind of
Speaker 1: kind of the big ones. But um, those are mostly exercises.
Speaker 1: Lists are really just exercises because you don't know anything
Speaker 1: until you get out there and start making offers and
Speaker 1: start reading people. But um, I I always like to
Speaker 1: cast non star people. I think it pays off the
Speaker 1: most in the end in terms of risk reward UM
Speaker 1: finding a unique voice exactly, yes, and getting the people
Speaker 1: that I know, have known for years can step it
Speaker 1: up and be really interesting and really funny. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: had cast Rain before, I had cast Jenna, before, i'd
Speaker 1: read Steve before I hadn't had the pleasure to cast him.
Speaker 1: But the people that we read for all these roles
Speaker 1: were groundlings and UCB people that um just did not
Speaker 1: get a break. So it was really fun to put
Speaker 1: them together with terrifically beautiful, subtle writing and everybody. That
Speaker 1: was a little a little more well received than some
Speaker 1: other pilots because it was the Office and all those
Speaker 1: people were into the Office, the British version of the Office. Um,
Speaker 1: everybody's just assumed we'd get crucified. But we had great
Speaker 1: people coming anyway, just happy to be doing the pilot. Right,
Speaker 1: So you made your lists, was there anyone you didn't
Speaker 1: know it at all? From the cast? I didn't know you.
Speaker 1: I didn't know um Leslie. I didn't know Oscar and
Speaker 1: I remember I had seen him in an episode of
Speaker 1: Reno N one one. It was like, who's that freaking guy?
Speaker 1: He's hilarious. UM. I didn't know John. I had just
Speaker 1: met him on a general I did not know John
Speaker 1: until he read John. Yeah, that's who. I wondered me
Speaker 1: and John. So I've heard and I didn't know this
Speaker 1: right because I didn't test with the other thing the
Speaker 1: testing process, the uniqueness of Yes that was that the
Speaker 1: first time you had ever done yes, and it was
Speaker 1: it was a um sensible choice because normally you would
Speaker 1: go in and test at a network with a bunch
Speaker 1: of studio executives in the head of the network sitting
Speaker 1: in the back of the room, and you come in
Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, be funny. That was the sitcom
Speaker 1: way to do it, and it didn't matter the level
Speaker 1: of subtlety. This one. We said, look at you're not
Speaker 1: going to get what this person has to offer unless
Speaker 1: you film it and see it what it's going to
Speaker 1: look like on screen. So Greg was able to talk
Speaker 1: them into that. So we did two days of testing,
Speaker 1: two long days of mixing, and matching actors and Ken
Speaker 1: directing them, and and yes, it was the first time
Speaker 1: that has happened, I believe, at least in my experience
Speaker 1: with testing for a pilot. And that made sense because
Speaker 1: of the format of the show, which hadn't been done
Speaker 1: before either the documentary yeah, the documentary style, and I
Speaker 1: think yes, part of the auditions was all we had one,
Speaker 1: one or two monologues that we let them pick from
Speaker 1: that we're all of our sides were from mostly from
Speaker 1: the pilot of the English office without being americanized too much,
Speaker 1: so a lot of it sounded English coming out of
Speaker 1: the American actor's mouths. But I remember the gym side
Speaker 1: saying do you like a drink? I remember thinking we
Speaker 1: don't say that. Most of the actors said the same
Speaker 1: thing to do you like a drink? Yeah. The process
Speaker 1: do you remember it taking especially long or it took
Speaker 1: the fall of two thousand three for casting? It was
Speaker 1: very time consuming because we had to make DVDs. Sorry, um,
Speaker 1: not DVDs. We didn't have DVDs then, we had VCR.
Speaker 1: We had half inch tapes that you had to copy
Speaker 1: in real time to send to England. I remember doing
Speaker 1: that my whole Thanksgiving was making tapes which I still
Speaker 1: have of the Gym's, of the Michael Scott's of the
Speaker 1: Palms for Ricky Gervais and Um, you know, you pressed
Speaker 1: tape and you press play and then you had to
Speaker 1: copy them in real time, so it was more time
Speaker 1: consuming for everybody having to actually look at all the
Speaker 1: tapes after getting them FedEx overnight. Um, how much was
Speaker 1: Ricky You said you made tapes and sent them to London?
Speaker 1: How much was Ricky did? Very much? So he didn't
Speaker 1: win with me, that's for sure. I've never met the guy,
Speaker 1: though I think he's genius in his golden globe stuff
Speaker 1: is effing genius anyway. Um, I never met him at all,
Speaker 1: but I know he weighed in heavily with um Greg
Speaker 1: about casting choices. They wouldn't I'm sure if he didn't
Speaker 1: like someone, they wouldn't have gone with them. So yes,
Speaker 1: it took a little bit longer, Um, and we read
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and I pre read a lot
Speaker 1: of people. Now pickens are slimmer. You know, there's so
Speaker 1: many shows out there that you start with a hundred
Speaker 1: names and ten of them are available. Right then it
Speaker 1: was more a little more freedom. Also, everybody is onto
Speaker 1: now hiring people from the Growlings and UCB, and so
Speaker 1: that's who they bring in first for comedy. You know.
Speaker 1: One of my shameful things was I pre read Christin
Speaker 1: Wig and didn't even bring her back for Greg. I'm Kristen.
Speaker 1: I apologize, but um, the recall why but that's funny.
Speaker 1: And then when I went back and looked at our audition,
Speaker 1: she was terrific. She was Christin Wig doing it, and
Speaker 1: she was terrific. She was a groundling at the time,
Speaker 1: and I didn't. I just for some reason didn't bring
Speaker 1: her back for Greg. I think maybe Jenna. Jenna was
Speaker 1: the biggest shoe in. I think from the start of reading,
Speaker 1: she was the first woman to read PAM. I remember
Speaker 1: Terry Weinberg saying I could watch you all day, and um,
Speaker 1: we had you know, we tested other PAMs, but I
Speaker 1: think Jenna was sort of the high bar that we set.
Speaker 1: And how much did um the chemistry between Jenna and
Speaker 1: John then impact John. I was not in the room
Speaker 1: at the time when they were reading together, but I
Speaker 1: assume it completely impacted John because Jenna John was effortless, effortless,
Speaker 1: and he had mostly just I had seen him in
Speaker 1: a commercial where he got his eyebrows shaved or something,
Speaker 1: and I remember casting director New York Bonnie Finnigan saying,
Speaker 1: this kid, John Krasinski is effortlessly funny. You won't believe
Speaker 1: how he's funny. He just talks and he's funny. Jenna,
Speaker 1: though lower in energy. I'm sure if you asked John
Speaker 1: that question, he would say it hugely impacted his performance
Speaker 1: because in his first audition he was a little more strident.
Speaker 1: Jenna was always very low key interesting. Um, what were
Speaker 1: you looking for between? But we haven't talked about Rain? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dwight and and Jim? Yeah, were there specific things that
Speaker 1: you were looking for? Rain is so odd that would
Speaker 1: have been one. Yeah, you knew that Dwight had to
Speaker 1: be odd, just an oddball and a nerd and sort
Speaker 1: of annoying. And Jim had to be a little cute,
Speaker 1: a little appealing. Um, not that Rain is not. He's
Speaker 1: very appealing. But m Rain just a comedy genius always.
Speaker 1: He must have loved the first He mean, he first
Speaker 1: read for Michael Scott, and I think I think he
Speaker 1: requested that through his agent that could he also read
Speaker 1: from Michael Scott? Or maybe I just brought him in
Speaker 1: from Michael Scott. I don't recall, because he did read
Speaker 1: for both at the time. Um, he was the first
Speaker 1: person to read period. But I believe we mostly thought
Speaker 1: he was going to be Dwight and he also wanted
Speaker 1: to read for Michael Scott. He probably could have worked
Speaker 1: as Michael Scott too. God, we read a lot of
Speaker 1: good people that in some version would have worked. You know,
Speaker 1: all these people, you know, we rejected a lot of
Speaker 1: great people for the right. Yeah. I remember Louis c
Speaker 1: k wasn't available at the time, and that was a
Speaker 1: bummer because he would have been a he had to
Speaker 1: deal at CBS. He always had a deal at CBS.
Speaker 1: But of all the people, I wanted to bring it,
Speaker 1: and Paul Gimaty just said no right off the bat
Speaker 1: because it was a TV show, I believe. Then we
Speaker 1: went to Philip Symore Hoffman, the late great Philip sy
Speaker 1: Moore Hoffman, and he said no as well because it
Speaker 1: was TV. I'm oh, yeah, And it's funny because that's
Speaker 1: all Paul does now, right. And the great thing is
Speaker 1: I started out I had nothing. Makes me happier to
Speaker 1: see that TV is the new film nothing, because so
Speaker 1: many people rejected all the TV I worked on for
Speaker 1: twenty years because it was TV. It was like pit,
Speaker 1: I don't want to do TV. And stunt casting, as
Speaker 1: they call it now, was not really a thing when
Speaker 1: I started. My boss, Judith Wiener, used to call it
Speaker 1: love boat casting when they made us put a big
Speaker 1: name in a role that made no sense. You know,
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonders Limo breaks down outside of the Huxtable's house
Speaker 1: and he he comes in. And so I started without
Speaker 1: doing that. Um. And also for some reason, I just
Speaker 1: thought I was supposed to find new people, and maybe
Speaker 1: that that must have come from Judith. Go out there
Speaker 1: and find new funny voices. UM. So you like casting
Speaker 1: unknowns and essentially everybody unknown in this Do you remember
Speaker 1: was there pushback from the network about that? Uh? Sometimes
Speaker 1: push back from the people in the room. I remember
Speaker 1: Greg and I really like Patton Oswalt for Michael Scott
Speaker 1: and some of the people in the room. No, he gave,
Speaker 1: of course a fantastic reading, and Patton was a stand
Speaker 1: up at the time. Um. Mostly before they got to
Speaker 1: the network. It was pushed packed from various people in
Speaker 1: the room. The network then was not as intrusive as
Speaker 1: they are now, they don't see every single goddamn audition
Speaker 1: before they approve who's going to test. We just told
Speaker 1: them who were testing. We made the test option deal
Speaker 1: and showed them the tests. It wasn't everybody at a
Speaker 1: certain level getting approval after approval after approval of who
Speaker 1: can even go near besides, you know that that exist.
Speaker 1: You can tell him sarcasm that exists now, Yeah, right.
Speaker 1: How much discussion was there or were you aware of
Speaker 1: that writers were going to end up being actors. I
Speaker 1: think at the beginning, BJ came in, Greg said there's
Speaker 1: a couple of guys I want to bring in to
Speaker 1: see if they'll work as actors too, And Mandy didn't
Speaker 1: have to read as far as I know, But BJ
Speaker 1: came in, and well, BJ was hired as an actor.
Speaker 1: He was hired as an actor. But also Greg was
Speaker 1: cognizant effect that he was a writer as well. Greg
Speaker 1: was up front about that right away. I didn't know
Speaker 1: Paul or anything at the time. PAULI burstin or and
Speaker 1: Greg had us bringing a lot of his friends who
Speaker 1: wrote for The Simpsons, who were awesomely weird and great,
Speaker 1: who I didn't know at all. I didn't know. I didn't.
Speaker 1: It was another the first time I realized writers were
Speaker 1: just as funny as actors when it came to this
Speaker 1: kind of comedy, if not more. Um. Some of those people,
Speaker 1: god bless him, were too weird for viewing. Um. But um,
Speaker 1: he totally was upfront about having trying to get some
Speaker 1: people who could write end. Now there's a little funky
Speaker 1: thing about trying to do that. Now there's unions who
Speaker 1: get find you or something if you do that. But
Speaker 1: then it was fine. Um. Who was the first person cast?
Speaker 1: Was it? Jenna? No? I think they all came. I
Speaker 1: think we all went to the network and looked at
Speaker 1: tapes and I think Greg he showed them the cast
Speaker 1: he wanted and that's who was approved. And that was cool.
Speaker 1: Kevin Riley really got it. I have to tell you,
Speaker 1: he really got it. Yeah, that's not commonly the case.
Speaker 1: What what did Kevin get? He got the vibe of
Speaker 1: the office. Kevin Riley really, Uh, you could tell loved
Speaker 1: the genre and the show and he got it. Yes,
Speaker 1: he did. He got it right away. And whoever hired
Speaker 1: Greg Daniels got it too. Who would have that been?
Speaker 1: Kevin Ben ben Seman completely yeah, so the rest of
Speaker 1: the ensemble like Angela. Yes, Angela had had read for Pam, right,
Speaker 1: Angela read for Pam and then Angela I sort of
Speaker 1: knew upfront that she was related to Greg somehow, so
Speaker 1: I said, I remember Phillis and I saying this too. Greg, Okay,
Speaker 1: what we think we should do is pretend we don't
Speaker 1: know she's related to, and we'll say she's our choice.
Speaker 1: And she was great for that that role. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that role was based on a person in
Speaker 1: the British show. I don't think it was. Um. So
Speaker 1: we had a little plan with Greg. We're going to
Speaker 1: push for Angela because we know she's right, but we're
Speaker 1: going to pretend we don't know she's related to. And
Speaker 1: then when we were in the room, Greg for some
Speaker 1: reason objected and Phillis and I were like kicking each
Speaker 1: other under the table. Jesus, but somehow, I don't know
Speaker 1: what happened there, but we got Angela. So maybe that
Speaker 1: was his um reverse psychology or something. But we had
Speaker 1: holp Um an Oscar similar. Oh, so you didn't know
Speaker 1: Oscar before. I didn't know Oscar. I had seen him
Speaker 1: like the week before the session one and he was
Speaker 1: so good and I was so embarrassed I didn't know him.
Speaker 1: Most everybody read for Stanley. I think I think there
Speaker 1: were two parts basically, And yes, the genius casting of
Speaker 1: Greg was seeing how mulare would have worked because not
Speaker 1: necessarily a huge comedy person. That was the year when
Speaker 1: people um wanted Helen Hunt or somebody like that. So um,
Speaker 1: these lovely women who could also be funny. And did
Speaker 1: you know me Laura before? Oh? Yes, she was a
Speaker 1: child actor. Knew her? Yeah, okay she was a child
Speaker 1: actress right, and gorgeous too. It was like, okay, well
Speaker 1: we'll still bring her in because highest thing about that
Speaker 1: people have to be real and not necessarily high fashion models.
Speaker 1: But um, is this was this a true um? I
Speaker 1: remember hearing this at some point. Was there Scranton pretty
Speaker 1: or Scranton Hot? Sorry, Scranton hot. Scranton Hot sounds more familiar.
Speaker 1: It's like when we did Veep it was like they
Speaker 1: have to be Washington d c attractive, not real attractive,
Speaker 1: and they had to look basically dumpy. Yes, that was
Speaker 1: definitely a thing. Scranton hot. Yeah. Do you remember the
Speaker 1: casting ross Is for Amy Adams? Oh? Yes, Um? Amy Heckerling.
Speaker 1: Was she the direct Amy Heckerling? Um, I thought she
Speaker 1: looked too much like Jenna, so we didn't hire her.
Speaker 1: We hired somebody else at first, and then um, somebody
Speaker 1: else in the room wanted to go for stunt casting
Speaker 1: and I just did not want to do that. I
Speaker 1: was the whole time. I think I was hated because
Speaker 1: I would not shut up about how it's a documentary.
Speaker 1: Suddenly Matt Damon isn't going to show up in Scranton,
Speaker 1: so that drove me crazy. Um was Greg on board
Speaker 1: with that? Oh, for the most part. Greg was on
Speaker 1: board with it. But as the network started getting more
Speaker 1: involved with sweep sweak and stuff, they started saying, you
Speaker 1: have to use Ben Affleck or blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and I was everybody would say that. I was always
Speaker 1: against that. I never agreed with that at all. It
Speaker 1: just to me it broke the DNA of the show.
Speaker 1: So we never did it much at all, right until
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl episode that pissed me off. Yes, but
Speaker 1: they cleverly thought of a little way to put Jack
Speaker 1: Black in there. He was on a YouTube thing or something.
Speaker 1: It was. Um, I never normally would talk back to
Speaker 1: a studio executive. But I believe I did it on
Speaker 1: a conference call. I would never normally ever do that
Speaker 1: and say something was a bad idea because they were
Speaker 1: mentioning Brad Pitt and George Clooney was like, what do
Speaker 1: you evan kidding me? They're going to show up in Scranton.
Speaker 1: So I was vociferous about not not wanting that right.
Speaker 1: So after the pilot, your job gets much easier through
Speaker 1: that first season, second season, yes, yeah, there weren't that
Speaker 1: many people that came on. But I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: just a little bit about how ed Helms and Rashida
Speaker 1: were brought in. Where they brought in? Was that through
Speaker 1: you or no? I think, I think, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know fully, you'd have to ask Greg how ed
Speaker 1: Helms came into the picture. It may have been through NBC.
Speaker 1: Rashida auditioned and we had to audition many, many women
Speaker 1: for that part, and Rashida got that, Um, she's the
Speaker 1: most gorgeous woman in the world, so she had to
Speaker 1: play head down. But her chemistry with John was great.
Speaker 1: They were friends at the time, and we read many
Speaker 1: other very good women at the time. But that was
Speaker 1: audition ed. I think came in through NBC and Greg.
Speaker 1: I believe that was created for him. He was freaking great.
Speaker 1: I mean Ed had just come off The Daily Show,
Speaker 1: which pretty much produced every major funny person on the
Speaker 1: Office and thereafter everything else, Yeah except me except for
Speaker 1: Brian and Phillis. Hum When Steve left, Thoughts, what did
Speaker 1: you think was the should have ended? Is what I thought? Yes, totally,
Speaker 1: I thought it should have ended. Though I had always
Speaker 1: loved people like Katherine Take these people that Greg was
Speaker 1: aware of that could do great things on the show.
Speaker 1: I have no idea how they came up with James
Speaker 1: Spader or so. Yes, I thought the show should have ended,
Speaker 1: except for the actor's sake. I did not want it.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, we gotta keep Phillis employed. They
Speaker 1: all have to keep the jobs. Um, and I thought
Speaker 1: it made sense it could go on. But I just
Speaker 1: thought Steve was so great, and it was seven years.
Speaker 1: It would be tough, But it also made sense that
Speaker 1: Ed was the logical choice to be bumped up. I
Speaker 1: think so. Some people who have come in have talked
Speaker 1: about being disappointed that the network didn't trust the existing
Speaker 1: ensemble enough and felt like they needed to bring in
Speaker 1: I'm sure that passed me off to Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: not privy to those those things about Spader, and I
Speaker 1: believe many of us thought, what do you mean you
Speaker 1: can't make it one of these guys on the show. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that was the case. Right. Where do you
Speaker 1: think the ensemble of the Office fits in television history? Good? Okay,
Speaker 1: right up there with Mary Tyler Moore and Lou Grant,
Speaker 1: which were genius and wonderful right up there, I think,
Speaker 1: and like news radio and amazing ensemble. Sein felt amazing
Speaker 1: ensemble up there was all of them. Yeah. What do
Speaker 1: you think made it special? The people? The people and
Speaker 1: number one the writing, Ricky Gervais, the style. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: give Ricky credit completely. Yeah, that was like an Adam
Speaker 1: bomb of comedy. When the British Office hit the scene,
Speaker 1: it was like an Adam bomb of comedy. So yes,
Speaker 1: I would see Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant right where
Speaker 1: I am today, and my entire life is due to
Speaker 1: you agreeing to see me. Oh, thank you. I'm sure
Speaker 1: I looked your head shut and thought, yeah, he'd be good.
Speaker 1: He looks like a real dude, right, and Phyllis and
Speaker 1: everybody on the show. You know who were unknowns. How
Speaker 1: does that make you feel? Terrific? Makes me feel happy,
Speaker 1: And it is the reward I get in this career
Speaker 1: and why I think why many casting people like what
Speaker 1: we do because we get to assist people in um
Speaker 1: getting gigs. But it's more than that. I mean. I
Speaker 1: remember coming back and after getting the office, saying to
Speaker 1: feel as this could be the most important job I've
Speaker 1: ever had. And I'm not kidding. I said that to her,
Speaker 1: thinking selfishly but having no idea. It's the most important
Speaker 1: job I've ever had because Phillis life's changed. It changed
Speaker 1: her life. What's crazy to me is that you had
Speaker 1: the same reaction that I had. Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: got the office. Yeah, oh you had that too, of course, yes,
Speaker 1: when I got you. I love that. I remember when
Speaker 1: Jennet we cast Jenna. I remember calling her agent at
Speaker 1: the time, Michael Green, and I got emotional because we
Speaker 1: don't get to tell the actors, but we get to
Speaker 1: tell the agents. And I remember saying to Michael exactly this,
Speaker 1: I'm calling to tell you that Jenna Fisher got office,
Speaker 1: and somehow there was silence on the phone. I was
Speaker 1: about to cry. I think Michael was about to cry. Um,
Speaker 1: But I was always happy to say. Sometimes business affairs
Speaker 1: beat you to the punch and they tell the agent.
Speaker 1: I always say, please, after all this, can we at
Speaker 1: least tell the agent that they got the job right? Um?
Speaker 1: Why do you think that? You know? So Rain and
Speaker 1: I talk and and I said to him, this is
Speaker 1: close to a year ago now. I said, I think
Speaker 1: that the show is bigger now than it was when
Speaker 1: we were on NBC on Thursday nights. And he said, oh,
Speaker 1: it's a factor of yeah, by a factor of a hundred.
Speaker 1: Why why do you think I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the real people in it, but I think everybody.
Speaker 1: Everybody can relate to working in an office like that.
Speaker 1: You can insert yourself into that show very easily. And
Speaker 1: you love the actors, You love you guys. And the
Speaker 1: writing is brilliant and it's very subtly funny. But it
Speaker 1: must there must be some comfort in the office. See
Speaker 1: I find comfort in Downtown Abbey. So I watched them
Speaker 1: million times, but there must be great comfort. And what
Speaker 1: I also learned recently, kids love the Office. Now I
Speaker 1: love it. Kids who were nine or ten there wasn't
Speaker 1: a show that was made for them really no, oh
Speaker 1: god no. And they're being probably a little more sophisticated
Speaker 1: these days, but I think there must be some measure
Speaker 1: of comfort, especially in today's world, where um, things that
Speaker 1: happened to you happened on the office, same way as
Speaker 1: in Seinfeld, things that happened to you happened in the office,
Speaker 1: and you have you had a jerk in your office.
Speaker 1: And yes, yes, um, I can't rewatch The Office. It
Speaker 1: makes me too sad because I had so much fun
Speaker 1: on it. It just makes me too melancholy. I cannot
Speaker 1: watch it. But then again, I can't even watch Family Ties.
Speaker 1: I feel, oh god, that was so much fun. I
Speaker 1: can't deal with it. What I'll zoom in on is
Speaker 1: who came in for certain roles? What does the office
Speaker 1: mean to you? Just very proud I was able to
Speaker 1: work on it, That's what it means to me. I
Speaker 1: mean very proud. I'm proud, proud, proud to say I I, oh,
Speaker 1: I worked on the office. Awesome. Yeah, Alison, thank you
Speaker 1: so freaking much, thank you, thank you. That's all, folks.
Speaker 1: Actually that is not all, because you were going to
Speaker 1: be hearing some more from Allison next week when we
Speaker 1: interview billis Smith a k A. Phyllis Lapping Vans. Allison
Speaker 1: makes a surprise appearance and I cannot wait for you
Speaker 1: to hear it makes me emotional thinking about it until then.
Speaker 1: Huge thank you to Allison for coming in and chatting
Speaker 1: with me. Allison, I know you do not love being
Speaker 1: in the spotlight, but you were amazing to all of
Speaker 1: you listeners. Have a fantastic week. I will see you
Speaker 1: next time on the Office Deep Dive. The Office Deep
Speaker 1: Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian bo Gartner,
Speaker 1: alongside our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our senior producer is
Speaker 1: Tessa Kramer, our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our
Speaker 1: assistant editor is Diego Tapia. My main man in the
Speaker 1: booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
Speaker 1: performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode
Speaker 1: was mixed by seth Olandski