Speaker 1: Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda Land Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radio. We can't not talk about
Speaker 1: Andreas Vesalius. He was a sixteenth century Flemish anatomist whose
Speaker 1: work revolutionized the study of the human body. And he
Speaker 1: was able to do so because he was also a
Speaker 1: body snatcher, who used his hands on observations to publish groundbreaking,
Speaker 1: forward thinking works about how our bodies function. And in
Speaker 1: doing so, this body snatcher became the father of modern anatomy.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Maria tru Marquis and I'm Holly Fry. First,
Speaker 1: a little administrative detailed to noon. Andreas Vesalius is actually
Speaker 1: the Anglicized form of the Dutch name Andre's von Vizel.
Speaker 1: It was a common practice among European scholars during the
Speaker 1: sixteen century to anglicize their names, and you might see
Speaker 1: his name with many other spellings and pronunciations. We have
Speaker 1: encountered six other versions during research, and we are confident
Speaker 1: we did not find them all. We're going to refer
Speaker 1: to him by his commonly used name, Andrea's Vesalius, and
Speaker 1: with that out of the way, Andreas was born, as
Speaker 1: we said, Andrey's van Vesel on December thirty one, fifteen fourteen,
Speaker 1: to Anders von Wiseel and Isabel crab in Brussels, which
Speaker 1: at that point was part of the Habsburg Netherlands. Andreas
Speaker 1: had two brothers and a sister, and when he was thirty,
Speaker 1: after finishing medical school, he married a woman named and
Speaker 1: van Hama, the daughter of a wealthy counselor of Brussels.
Speaker 1: The couple welcomed a daughter, also named am in fifteen
Speaker 1: forty five. The von Vosso family was full of physicians
Speaker 1: and pharmacists. The sands is great grandfather, Yawn, taught medicine
Speaker 1: at the University of Luven. His grandfather, Averard, was the
Speaker 1: all physician of Emperor Maximilian. His father, too was a
Speaker 1: healer and served as apothecary to Maximilian and later Valet
Speaker 1: de Champ to its successor, Charles. The fifth Andreas family
Speaker 1: encouraged him to follow in the family tradition, and he
Speaker 1: did and with great success. The sixteenth century has often
Speaker 1: been called the century of anatomy, kind of perfectly nicknamed
Speaker 1: for Andreas's time. During his primary years, he attended the
Speaker 1: Brethren of the common Life in Brussels, at the age
Speaker 1: of fifteen, he enrolled in the University of Luverne, which
Speaker 1: we know today as the Old University, attending from fifteen
Speaker 1: nine till fifteen thirty three. Andreas studied at least initially
Speaker 1: the arts, including rhetoric, philosophy and logic in Latin, Classical,
Speaker 1: Greek and Hebrew. At the Collegium Trilingue, Andreas became interested
Speaker 1: in anatomy and surgery and showed skill in those areas.
Speaker 1: He soon acted as the de facto anatomy instructor on
Speaker 1: an in for normal basis, demonstrating anatomical dissections to his
Speaker 1: fellow students. After receiving his bachelor's degree in medicine in
Speaker 1: fifteen thirty three, he continued his studies at the prestigious
Speaker 1: medical school at the University of Paris. While in Paris,
Speaker 1: Andreas studied under famous physicians and anatomists, including French anatomist
Speaker 1: Jacobus Silvius and Johann Gunther Von Andernach, an osteologist and mycologist.
Speaker 1: Said Johan of his pupil, quote, the Salius is a
Speaker 1: young man of great promise, possessing an extraordinary knowledge of medicine,
Speaker 1: proficient in Latin, and Greek, and very skilled in dissection
Speaker 1: of bodies. It was in Paris for Andreas was first
Speaker 1: given the opportunity to dissect a human cadaver. It's probably
Speaker 1: actually safe to say cadaver's plural in this instance. During
Speaker 1: this time he devoted much of his study to human
Speaker 1: bones and the skeletal system. In fact, in his own words,
Speaker 1: he has said the following about body snatching for his
Speaker 1: education quote, the cemetery of the Innocence in Paris was
Speaker 1: where I began my study of bones, in company with
Speaker 1: Matteis Terminus. There we found a rich supply of bones,
Speaker 1: which we examined over a long period until we were
Speaker 1: able to make a bet with our fellow students that
Speaker 1: blindfolded we could identify by touch alone any bone which
Speaker 1: they pulled from the piles over a half an hour
Speaker 1: period and handed to us. We were forced to these
Speaker 1: links because, though eager to learn, we had no teachers
Speaker 1: to assist us in this aspect of medicine. Andreas left
Speaker 1: Paris though before he graduated, but not because of any
Speaker 1: academic failing. While he was studying at the university, the
Speaker 1: Italian War, which spanned fifteen thirty six to fifteen thirty
Speaker 1: eight broke out. This was a conflict between King Francis
Speaker 1: the First of France and Charles the fifth Holy Roman
Speaker 1: Emperor and King of Spain, and a lot of it
Speaker 1: was fought in France. Andrea's returned to the University of
Speaker 1: Leuven and in early fifty seven transferred to the Universe
Speaker 1: of Padua in what was then the Republic of Venice.
Speaker 1: At the time Andreas enrolled, the university was known to
Speaker 1: have a progressive medical program with a strong emphasis on
Speaker 1: anatomical dissection. It was a famous center of medical education
Speaker 1: during the Renaissance. It said at one time the anatomy
Speaker 1: college brought in a troop of musicians to play throughout
Speaker 1: a dissection to set the right kind of sober scene.
Speaker 1: At Patua, he performed several human anatomical dissections and analyzed
Speaker 1: at least two skeletons in the spam of just one year.
Speaker 1: Andreas received his Doctor of Medicine degree with highest distinction
Speaker 1: in December of fifty seven, and just one day after
Speaker 1: his graduation, the Senate of Venice nominated vi Salius as
Speaker 1: Professor of Surgery at the University of Padua. He accepted
Speaker 1: the position and was responsible for lecturing in surgical topics
Speaker 1: as well as giving anatomical demonstrations. We're going to take
Speaker 1: a brand for word from our sponsor now and when
Speaker 1: we return, will share Andreas's advice to would be body snatchers.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Criminalia. Andreas Phuslias wasn't shy about criticizing
Speaker 1: his teachers for studying the carcasses of cats, dogs, and
Speaker 1: pigs rather than humans. Let's talk about how a little
Speaker 1: body snatching could go a long way when you study anatomy.
Speaker 1: As Alius was one of the first physicians to accurately
Speaker 1: record and illustrate human anatomy based on his own findings
Speaker 1: from autopsies and dissections. His work directly led to improved
Speaker 1: understanding of the human body as well as enhanced surgical techniques.
Speaker 1: We've spoken throughout this entire season about surgeons and physicians
Speaker 1: interested in human anatomy who employed grave robbers so they
Speaker 1: could get their jobs done. Some engaged in body snatching themselves.
Speaker 1: The Salius was the latter. He felt strongly that book
Speaker 1: learning alone could not be enough, and that verifiable evidence
Speaker 1: should take precedence over written text. There's a story that
Speaker 1: says he snatched a body while he was a student
Speaker 1: in Paris, just so he could have a skeleton for
Speaker 1: reference in his work. Before the Salius came on the scene.
Speaker 1: An anatomical lecture and dissection kind of looked like this.
Speaker 1: A professor sat in the chair teaching from a textbook. Concurrently,
Speaker 1: a surgeon would perform the dissection, and students sat around
Speaker 1: and observed. There was no divergence from the text. The Salius,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, accomplished his work by not reading
Speaker 1: about bodies, but by snatching bodies from local graves and
Speaker 1: directly studying them. He often led his own students to
Speaker 1: the graveyard, imparting his grave robbing knowledge along the way.
Speaker 1: It was smart. He told them to keep an eye
Speaker 1: on any terminal patients in public hospitals. He taught and
Speaker 1: encouraged his students how to acquire a set of duplicate
Speaker 1: keys for local graveyards to break into tombs. He also
Speaker 1: advised them to watch the gibbets for corpses. Hanging the
Speaker 1: body of an executed criminal in chains was known as gibbeting.
Speaker 1: He successfully negotiated with judges and authorities to make long
Speaker 1: life sentences into death sentences instead and once the prisoner
Speaker 1: was executed, their body would end up on his dissection table.
Speaker 1: He would never, though, have considered himself to be like
Speaker 1: the resurrection men that we have talked about in other
Speaker 1: episodes this season. Andreas just needed the tools for his job,
Speaker 1: and that is how he saw things. This was how
Speaker 1: things went, though if he were among the Renaissance era anatomists.
Speaker 1: Historical accounts tell a lot of narratives. Actually that sounds
Speaker 1: something like this. After the death of a local, hasn't,
Speaker 1: local scholars rushed the scene, all hoping to illegally snatch
Speaker 1: the fresh corpse. Despite the illegality of the body snatching
Speaker 1: and the dissection, crowds packed lecture theaters when public dissections
Speaker 1: were held. In fifteen thirty eight, one year into his professorship,
Speaker 1: Andreas published the Tabulae and atomic a sex or Six
Speaker 1: Anatomical Tables, which were six sheets created by the Flemish
Speaker 1: artist Jan van Kulkar, an apprentice of Renaissance painter Titian,
Speaker 1: but based largely on Visalius's own drawings. Titiano Viccellio, known
Speaker 1: in English as Titian, was an Italian painter during the
Speaker 1: Renaissance and is considered to be the most important member
Speaker 1: of the sixteenth century Venetian School. Six Anatomical Tables was
Speaker 1: Visalius's attempt to outline the long history of human dissection,
Speaker 1: starting from the third century BC. It can feel somewhat
Speaker 1: overwhelming to think about the impact on as his work
Speaker 1: had on medicine. By the end of fifteen thirty eight,
Speaker 1: he had assembled a collection of anatomical information large and
Speaker 1: detailed enough on which he could and did base illustrations
Speaker 1: on the human bodies, parts and organs, really all systems
Speaker 1: from head to toe. He drew detailed composite illustrations of
Speaker 1: the human bodies anatomical structures, including the skeletal system, circulatory system,
Speaker 1: organ systems, muscular systems, nervous system, and reproductive system. Based
Speaker 1: upon his observations and dissections that he performed himself. Within
Speaker 1: the first year of his professorship, the Salius wrote and
Speaker 1: illustrated the first comprehensive textbook of anatomy, called the human
Speaker 1: E Corporus Fabrica Libra Septum, or the Seven Books on
Speaker 1: the Structure of the Human Body. It is commonly known
Speaker 1: as the Fabrica. Historians estimate that he must have had
Speaker 1: at least thirteen cadavers to work with. Before fifty three,
Speaker 1: which is when the book was published, these bodies would
Speaker 1: have come from cemeteries in the city, places of execution,
Speaker 1: and sometimes from hospitals. In fifteen forty two, Vissalius traveled
Speaker 1: from Padua to Venice, and while it's not exactly clear
Speaker 1: what his journey entailed, we do know that he met
Speaker 1: with Jon von Kalkar. It's very likely he was the
Speaker 1: artist who transferred at least some of Assalius's illustrations into
Speaker 1: woodblock prints. Wood block printing, just to kind of sum
Speaker 1: this up, because it's an interesting process, is an old
Speaker 1: form of printmaking. These prints are created by carving the
Speaker 1: surface of a wooden block. It's a form of relief
Speaker 1: printing based on the idea that the parts that aren't
Speaker 1: to be printed are the parts that get cut out,
Speaker 1: so anything that will be printed would be on level
Speaker 1: with the surface of the block. Andrea sent the woodblocks
Speaker 1: of his drawings to printer Johannes Apornus in Basel, Switzerland,
Speaker 1: who could mass reproduce the images, and the resulting manuscript
Speaker 1: was published in fifty forty three. And as we've said,
Speaker 1: that work was a game changer in anatomy and surgery.
Speaker 1: The Fabrica included fully illustrated anatomy of male and female bodies,
Speaker 1: both full bodies and body parts. There were more than
Speaker 1: two hundred seventy detailed illustrations included in the work. It
Speaker 1: included detailed diagrams of uteruses, some drawn with intact fetuses.
Speaker 1: This was huge. Yes, this book was huge in length,
Speaker 1: but also nothing like this existed and it was considered
Speaker 1: quite radical. Before the sixteenth century, most medical texts were
Speaker 1: mostly devoid of illustrations, the very opposite of Andreas's book,
Speaker 1: says Lila Vercurdie, head of Special Collections at the Smithsonian Libraries,
Speaker 1: the Fabrica was quote an immense achievement. This almost seven
Speaker 1: hundred pages long, huge folio volume is one of the
Speaker 1: heralds of the scientific revolution. Of course, Andrea's isn't the
Speaker 1: first to study, teach, and publish about anatomy, but as
Speaker 1: Arnaldo Benini, emeritus Professor of Neurosurgery and Neurology at the
Speaker 1: University of Zurich as well as former head of neurosurgery
Speaker 1: at the Schultis Foundation in Zurich, says, the Fabrica was
Speaker 1: the first anatomical book based on first hand dissections of
Speaker 1: human cadavers, and he's right, it absolutely was. But there's
Speaker 1: another really important guy among anatomists that we need to
Speaker 1: talk about. We're gonna take a break for a word
Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and when we're back we will talk
Speaker 1: a lot about Galen and how Andreas disproved many of
Speaker 1: his longstanding anatomical truths. Welcome back to Criminalia. Before we
Speaker 1: wrap up this episode, someone will call Andreas vis alias
Speaker 1: an insolent and ig arrant slanderer. But who Claudius Galenus,
Speaker 1: known simply as Galen, was a renowned physician and philosopher
Speaker 1: in ancient Greece. Along with Hippocrates, you could safely say
Speaker 1: he's the most influential physician and most important medical scholar
Speaker 1: of classical antiquity. When Vesalius received his medical education, it
Speaker 1: would have been dominated by the works of Galen, works
Speaker 1: that had been published thirteen hundred years earlier. Galen's writings
Speaker 1: and teachings were still de rigor more than a thousand
Speaker 1: years after his death, and they were considered authoritative texts
Speaker 1: in medical education in Vesalius's time. Here's one of the
Speaker 1: biggest differences between Galen and Vesalius. Almost all of Galen's
Speaker 1: anatomical observations came from animal dissections, primarily apes and other primates,
Speaker 1: but never from humans. Dissecting a human corpse was taboo
Speaker 1: under Roman religion during Galen's time of study. To be honest,
Speaker 1: of course, it wasn't legal during Andreas' time either. During
Speaker 1: the sixteenth century, many people believed in the resurrection of
Speaker 1: the body after death, so interfering with the dead body
Speaker 1: by dissecting it was really really problematic, but it still happened,
Speaker 1: and that certainly did not stop Andreas from visiting the
Speaker 1: graveyard on the regular. Galen's understanding of medicine, including anatomy,
Speaker 1: was influenced by the then popular theory that there were
Speaker 1: four humors blood, yellow bile, black bile, and phlegm. Humoral
Speaker 1: theory was a system of medicine. It detailed a theorized
Speaker 1: working of the human body, and it was adopted by
Speaker 1: ancient Greek and Roman physicians and philosophers, and it was
Speaker 1: adopted for a really, really long time too. Galen authored
Speaker 1: his groundbreaking work called on the Nature of Man in
Speaker 1: the Hippocratic Corpus, based on this theory. The most famous
Speaker 1: work thought in the Hippocratic corpus is, of course, the
Speaker 1: Hippocratic Oath, the famous oath of ethics taken by physicians
Speaker 1: still today. Galen's works on dissection were problematic for visalias.
Speaker 1: Galen worked from anatomical reports that were based at least
Speaker 1: mainly on the dissection of barbary apes. He later, upon
Speaker 1: discovering that the apes had humanlike facial expressions, switched to
Speaker 1: other mammals, usually pigs. Galen believed personal experiences and observation
Speaker 1: were the best way to gain anatomical knowledge, but because
Speaker 1: dissection and vivisection on human bodies were strictly prohibited at
Speaker 1: the time in the Holy Roman Empire, he could only
Speaker 1: encourage his students to seek out corpses not for dissection.
Speaker 1: For example, he would suggest that they look at dead
Speaker 1: gladiators or bodies that washed ashore in order to get
Speaker 1: better acquainted with the human body. The Salius wrote of
Speaker 1: Galen quote, Indeed, those who are now dedicated to the
Speaker 1: ancient study of medicine are beginning to learn, to their satisfaction,
Speaker 1: and how little and how feebly men have labored in
Speaker 1: the field of anatomy to this day, From the times
Speaker 1: of Galen, who did not dissect the human body, and
Speaker 1: the fact is now evident that he described, not to
Speaker 1: say imposed upon us, the fabric of the ape's body,
Speaker 1: although the latter differs from the former in many respects
Speaker 1: on the nature of man, and Galen's anatomical work remained
Speaker 1: uncontested until Vassalius's Fabrica was printed. Andreas had no reason
Speaker 1: to question the theories of Galen. Those theories were in place,
Speaker 1: as we've said, for more than a thousand years. Though
Speaker 1: Visalius praised Galen throughout his work, he also corrected him,
Speaker 1: and that had never been done before. The act was
Speaker 1: viewed by many scholars as an attack on the accepted
Speaker 1: Galenic doctrine. Andreas received heavy criticism from many who were
Speaker 1: respected in the medical community, including his former teacher Jacobus Sylvius,
Speaker 1: who called him quote the insolent and ignorant slanderer who
Speaker 1: treacherously attacked his teachers with violent mendacity, and time and
Speaker 1: time again distorted the truth of nature. Here's a look
Speaker 1: at some of the inaccurate ideas that his observation based
Speaker 1: works disproved. He disproved Galen's assertion that men have more
Speaker 1: teeth than women. He disproved the two horned uterus, the
Speaker 1: five lobed liver, the seven segmented stern um, the double
Speaker 1: bile duct, and he proved there is no bone at
Speaker 1: the base of the heart. There's more, and we encourage
Speaker 1: you to look it up if you're interested. Actually, some
Speaker 1: of our historical anatomical beliefs are really quite a trip
Speaker 1: over the years. According to Dr William Richardson, classicist at
Speaker 1: the University of Auckland, some people in the medical field
Speaker 1: condemned the Salius's Fabrica for his audacity in questioning and
Speaker 1: criticizing Galen, but there were others who did praise it.
Speaker 1: Before we move on, one thing about Richardson. Richardson is
Speaker 1: an interesting guy when it comes to the Slias. In
Speaker 1: nine nine he began the enormous project of undertaking the
Speaker 1: first English translation of the seven book collection of on
Speaker 1: the Fabric of the Human Body. In two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: the project he and anatomy professor John Carmen began was
Speaker 1: complete twenty years later. Two weeks after publishing The Fabrica,
Speaker 1: the Salius published again his work, The Humanic Corporus Fabrica
Speaker 1: liborum Epitome or Abridgment of the structure of the human
Speaker 1: body consisted of eleven woodblock prints that included illustrations of
Speaker 1: the skeleton, muscles, nerves, veins, and arteries. The epitome differed
Speaker 1: from the Fabrica though in that, for instance, the muscles
Speaker 1: were drawn in their natural resting position and in layers
Speaker 1: showing the way from superficial to deep, which was a
Speaker 1: view helpful to surgeons when operating and treating wounds. Following
Speaker 1: the release of the Epitome, when you think he may
Speaker 1: have been at the top of his game here, as
Speaker 1: Salius resigned from his professorship at Padua and subsequently and
Speaker 1: perhaps hastily burned his entire collection of notes and sketches.
Speaker 1: Some historians believe this was in reaction to the negative
Speaker 1: reception or his perceived negative reception, of the Fabrica. Upon
Speaker 1: leaving Padua, of As Salius moved to Madrid, where he
Speaker 1: became court physician of Charles, the fifth Holy Roman Emperor
Speaker 1: and King of Spain. With this, Andreas became the fifth
Speaker 1: generation of the Vassalius family to be an imperial service.
Speaker 1: When Charles advocated the throne, he granted Andreas a lifelong
Speaker 1: pension and gave him the title of Count Palatine for
Speaker 1: his loyal service. Thessalius then held the same role of
Speaker 1: physician for Charles's son, King Philip the Second of Spain.
Speaker 1: Although Visalius was increasingly called to act as a physician
Speaker 1: and surgeon, he did not abandon in his former work
Speaker 1: for the royals, and continued to edit and refine his
Speaker 1: writings and drawings. He did not teach or body snatch
Speaker 1: in Spain, at least not that we know of. It
Speaker 1: was during his time in Spain when Andreas wrote what
Speaker 1: would be his final work, a critique of the anatomical
Speaker 1: observations of his contemporary Gabriella Fallopio Spain forbade dissection of
Speaker 1: human cadavers, and according to medical historian James Ball, it's
Speaker 1: doubtful that Vissalius could have even quote touched a dried skull.
Speaker 1: But he continued to work on his editions and corrections
Speaker 1: of the Fabrica while in Spain, of which a second
Speaker 1: version was published in fifteen fifty five. The revised edition
Speaker 1: is considered itself a major contribution, rather than just an
Speaker 1: update of the earlier version. In fifteen sixty four, Vissalius
Speaker 1: left Spain with his family While his wife and daughter
Speaker 1: returned to Brussels, he undertook a pilgrimage to Jerusalem. The
Speaker 1: reasons for this journe they have never been completely explained,
Speaker 1: but it's his return that we're concerned with right now.
Speaker 1: His ship was caught in a storm and washed ashore
Speaker 1: on the Greek island of Zakinthos. The Salius did not
Speaker 1: recover and died at age forty nine in October fifteen
Speaker 1: sixty four. So I guess that means he wasn't dissected
Speaker 1: on a dissection table. Unlikely, so probably. But shall we
Speaker 1: give a toast to the man who is considered the
Speaker 1: founder of modern anatomy. Yes, although the name he might
Speaker 1: find insulting, but it's really just because I enjoyed the
Speaker 1: word play of it. He might have too, we don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't think he would. Maybe he would. In thinking
Speaker 1: about this one, this is a choose your own adventure situation.
Speaker 1: Always love those, and it will surprise you, I think,
Speaker 1: because what I started to think about was the Salius's
Speaker 1: Flemish origin, and thus Belgium, and thus beer Holly goes
Speaker 1: down the beer path. I'm not a beer drinker. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't love beer. However, a few things. One
Speaker 1: thing that I have noticed recently is that more and
Speaker 1: more there's like this resurgence or maybe first wave of
Speaker 1: popularity of beer cocktails. I don't know if you have
Speaker 1: encountered them, but I keep seeing them popping up on
Speaker 1: menus places. I've been seeing them pop up as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I haven't. I can't say I have any experience, but
Speaker 1: I yeah. And so I thought I may not be
Speaker 1: a beer drinker, but I thought a couple of things. One,
Speaker 1: how could I make beer more palatable to myself? And
Speaker 1: two maybe beer drinkers would like a cocktail as well.
Speaker 1: Then I got, of course, to thinking about beer cocktails.
Speaker 1: And this is not really a new thing. They've been
Speaker 1: made in Europe for literal hundreds of years. And there's
Speaker 1: the basic beer cocktail, although what it consists of you
Speaker 1: may find disagreement on. Is called a shandy. Oh, I know,
Speaker 1: the sandy, and it's equal parts beer and something else,
Speaker 1: because there's something else people argue about. But often you'll
Speaker 1: see it going back to the older versions of even
Speaker 1: either equal parts beer and ginger ale or ginger beer.
Speaker 1: And so I thought, let's try a little shandy experiment,
Speaker 1: which I'm gonna call Galen Sculp Galen. Oh, I see
Speaker 1: where you're going here. That's why he's like, how much
Speaker 1: of this could I take a part? But I like alliteration.
Speaker 1: It's gonna start. You're gonna do equal parts of a
Speaker 1: pale ale get a good one. And I went with
Speaker 1: ginger beer. And then here's the choose your own adventure part.
Speaker 1: I will tell you again, I know and I do
Speaker 1: not in any shade to any of the beer drinkers
Speaker 1: in the crowd. All beer tastes the same to me,
Speaker 1: and it is not a good taste. I don't think
Speaker 1: everyone likes beer, so I think we can be on
Speaker 1: you know, I think we can be on your side. No,
Speaker 1: but I know there are people that like, really love beer,
Speaker 1: and they can pick out all of the flavors and
Speaker 1: the notes of a beer the way that someone would
Speaker 1: do with wine, or that I feel like I can
Speaker 1: do with vodka. But you have but you do have
Speaker 1: an alcohol that is like that for you. People will
Speaker 1: do that also with coffees and whatnot. Like everybody, I
Speaker 1: do not have a palette that can pluck those notes
Speaker 1: out food, so it all cases the same to me.
Speaker 1: So I don't love a basic shandy that is a
Speaker 1: one in one. But then there are experiments, and this
Speaker 1: is where becomes to choose your own adventure. In thinking
Speaker 1: about what we talked about last week, where I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, what might be fun is to throw a
Speaker 1: little mango in there. I brought that over this week
Speaker 1: and I used three ounces of pale ale, three ounces
Speaker 1: of ginger beer, and about three quarters of an ounce
Speaker 1: like flashed it in of mango syrup. And that got
Speaker 1: real interesting and it's quite nice. I also did one
Speaker 1: with a rose syrup. Of course, because I'm predictable, I
Speaker 1: did one with grenadine, which is very yummy. Actually, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, actually I was imagining that before I
Speaker 1: asked the question of how how was that? It pulled
Speaker 1: out all of the fruity flavors of the beer, which
Speaker 1: is quite nice. And then I also did one with
Speaker 1: a habanniro syrup. I just made a little like half
Speaker 1: sized versions of them. I wasn't drinking for drinks, although
Speaker 1: since it's diluted, it's not a heavy a BV situation.
Speaker 1: But I also just couldn't drink that much beer even
Speaker 1: if I wanted to. That's the choose your own adventure
Speaker 1: aspect is that I think you can play with whatever
Speaker 1: syrup or even a liqueur. Now I'm going to say
Speaker 1: I haven't played with liqueurs, so I don't know what
Speaker 1: would work and what wouldn't. I am confident and elderberry
Speaker 1: liqueur would be great whenever I which is infrequently, but
Speaker 1: whenever I bring up one of them, I'm always like,
Speaker 1: but I've got this elder flower and always want to
Speaker 1: use it in things, and this is where I try. Yeah,
Speaker 1: elder flower liquor in this would be great. So for
Speaker 1: a nonalcoholic version, you can obviously do a non alcoholic
Speaker 1: beer if you wish. However, if you want to just
Speaker 1: sidestep that completely, you could also do I would do
Speaker 1: like a lemonade and a ginger beer. It's not going
Speaker 1: to be the same profile, but there are two things
Speaker 1: that go nicely together and welcome other flavors to the party.
Speaker 1: So just like a three ounce three ounce and then
Speaker 1: three quarters of an ounce of your additive, so you
Speaker 1: can feel a little bit like a scientist and an
Speaker 1: experiment here, but also you can cater it to your
Speaker 1: own tastes. You can be like, oh, you were doing
Speaker 1: just the beer and the ginger ginger beer, that's very rudimentary.
Speaker 1: I like the Salius have done much more detailed investigation
Speaker 1: and creation. And you've been tree the grave, you are, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is Galen's gulp. I actually really love the lemonade
Speaker 1: and ginger beer version, because that's another one that's great. Again,
Speaker 1: I always say loshaw her, but I really prefer lower
Speaker 1: sugar stuff, especially in our current heat wave that's happening
Speaker 1: in Georgia. Sugar and it's very quite refreshing. So I
Speaker 1: have a picture of those now sitting in my fridge.
Speaker 1: The non alcoholic version delicious. So yes, if you try
Speaker 1: this shandy, If you, like me, are just trying to
Speaker 1: experiment and do new things, here is a way to
Speaker 1: play with beer in your cocktails. And then, if you're me,
Speaker 1: who knows you're never going to drink the amount of
Speaker 1: beer you had to purchase to get the one that
Speaker 1: you wanted. You invite your friends over and you give
Speaker 1: them your leftover beer and they love you. So easy,
Speaker 1: so easy. I literally texted one of my best friends
Speaker 1: and she's like, Oh, I'm so excited you picked a
Speaker 1: thing you don't like. I'll take care of that. For yet, yes,
Speaker 1: or I'll have people over and we'll have shandies on
Speaker 1: the deck and it'll be fun. I hope that you
Speaker 1: are having fun whatever it is you're up to, and
Speaker 1: I hope that you have had fun with us today.
Speaker 1: We are very grateful for your years and your time,
Speaker 1: and we will be right back here next week with
Speaker 1: another episode of Criminalia. Criminalia is a production of Shonda
Speaker 1: land Audio in partnership with I heart Radio. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from Shonda land Audio, please visit the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows.