WEBVTT - Can Nuclear Fusion Reactors Save The World? 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.320 Welcome to you stuff you should know from house stuff 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:13.840 Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:19.080 Josh Clark. There's Charles to Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry's barrel laughs, 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:21.960 and this is stuff you should know. She gave us 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.480 the all quick start. Yeah, like I don't want to 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.400 hear any more impression record. She knows that shuts me up, 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.240 or at least cuts off whatever conversation I'm chiding her. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:33.280 It's great. I'm telling you. If we could release the 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:37.519 twenty seconds before each show as its own show, that 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.599 would be terrible. No one would care. No, we'd think 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:43.120 it was funny, and everybody else would be like, you 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.879 edit this out for a reason. Uh so, Chuck, how 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:54.400 you doing great? Have you ever been to Azen, Provence, France? No? 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.440 Is that a place? Yeah? No, I haven't. It is 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:03.920 a rustic little town in Provence, and it is strangely, 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.720 maybe even ironically in the non hipster use, but in 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.640 the actual Yeah, it's a word. Definition of the word 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:17.120 um also cite to one of the most futuristic engineering 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:22.440 projects humanity has ever undertaken. That's the sound that makes Oh, 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.160 I thought you're mocking me for being thrilled by the 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.199 thought of this thing. No, it is kind of funny 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:29.959 that this thing is in a sleepy little town. It's 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.040 like a hamlet, maybe evencern in Switzerland. That's not in 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:35.800 the city, is it. No, you can't build these things 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.000 in cities. That's whether in sleepy towns exactly because no 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:40.080 one knows they're being poisoned. Yeah, and you can push 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.520 the mare around pretty easy, exactly. This thing is called 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.679 eider I t e R, which is an acronym for 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:52.840 the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor, which really gets to the 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.960 point across. Did you know the word acronym is an acronym. Hm, 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.200 that's not true. Okay, I just want to see how 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:01.720 long you would try and sort it out in your head. 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.840 I would have kept going on seconds. Maybe that would 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:06.400 have been a great joke. I could have just kept 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.440 it going. I'm not gonna tell you I would have 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.880 been I would have it was maybe fifteen seconds, because 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.400 we've gotten that much more so. Now I wouldn't have 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.840 looked it up. I would have figured it out myself anyway. Either. 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:25.520 Is this colossal engineering project. Somebody compared it to the 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:31.920 Pyramids at Giza. Yeah, that's that's exciting stuff. Sure. Um. 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.320 The thing is is it's a nuclear fusion reactor, and 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:41.720 it's the culmination of decades of attempts to create a 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.799 nuclear fusion reactor because we got fission down and we'll 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.320 talk about the difference in a minute, Um, but fusion 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.799 has been very elusive, and nowhere is it more apparent 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.000 than in the either project. Because this thing is going 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.760 to cost an approximately fifty billion dollars when it's completed, 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:06.440 fifty billion dollars. They started. They're hoping to turn on 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.600 the switch in two thousand twenty, but it's looking like 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.040 two thousand twenty three or two thousand twenty four, and 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.680 it won't be starting to produce anything until the two 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:20.880 thousand forties at the earliest. So what's the point. I'll 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.880 tell you the point. If we can figure out nuclear fusion, Chuck, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:30.600 the world's literally the world's energy problems will be solved 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:35.360 for millennia. If we can just figure this out, we 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:42.279 will have a almost no radio activity nuclear option um, 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:49.240 almost limitless fuel supply, totally green clean, no pollution of 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:54.800 greenhouse emissions, and with plenty of energy to spare using 0:03:55.440 --> 0:04:00.360 the already extant infrastructure we have to supply power, Like, 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.600 you don't have to completely rebuild everything. You can just 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.280 to the electrical cables outside. It'll be the exact same thing. Yeah, 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:09.680 you can just go to a nuclear fission reactor and 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.360 press the button that says fusion and it'll all of 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.640 a sudden joined atoms instead of split them exactly. That's 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.000 what the difference is. With fission, you're splitting atoms and 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.560 you're gaining energy from that. With fusion, you're smacking them 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.920 together and you're gaining even more energy because we're you're 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.000 exploiting a different fundamental force. Yeah, and that I was 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.120 being coy. Clearly, there is no button because we would 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.479 have pushed it a long time ago. And when I 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.400 say no pollution and no greenhouse emissions before the pedantic 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.120 among you right in we know that just even shipping 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.240 something from here to there causes pollution and greenhouse emissions, 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.000 but we're talking about the the output of the reactor 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.840 itself is very green. So if you want to know 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.400 all about either, well we're gonna talk about it here there, 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.040 because it's just you just can't talk about nuclear fusion 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.200 reactors and not mention either. But if you want to 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.600 know a lot of out Either. There is a really 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.640 great article called A Star in a Bottle Um and 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.680 it's by a person named Rathi Katcha Duran durian Uh 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:10.840 and it was written in the New Yorker not too 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.520 long ago. And man, it is every detail you want 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:18.520 to know about the Either project written really well. Um, 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.719 and it's long, but it's totally worth the read. Yeah, 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:22.719 it's all over the news lately. And for good reason. 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.880 You said a lot of energy. I have a stat 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.560 I'm gonna throw back to the old days here. Per 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:35.359 kilogram of fuel, if we're talking fusion and fission, fusion 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.440 produces four times more energy than fission. I saw seven. 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:41.760 It's probably one of the things where it's like four 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.880 to five to ten or something. I've found four times 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:49.600 and ten million times more than coal, ten million times 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.680 the energy that's coal. And that's with equal fuel per 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.960 kilogram of fuel. It's just I mean, it is the future. Yeah. 0:05:58.000 --> 0:05:59.800 And you can say, well that's great because we want 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.719 eight team million times the amount of power that coal provides. 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.200 You can say, well, they're buddy. You can also bring 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:09.400 it backwards because you can supply an awful lot of power. 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:14.880 Then with a lot less fuel. We're like, the advantage 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.160 of nuclear fusion are mind boggling and and very few 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.600 uh downsides, which we'll get to, of course, but I mean, 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.720 like really genuinely, it's not just like some like here's 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:27.320 all the great stuff about it and just don't pay 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.320 attention to all these like really horrible aspects. Um Like, 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.800 there really aren't too many downsides. The downside is we 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:41.080 are at this moment incapable of successfully creating a commercially 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.920 viable nuclear fusion reactor. That's right, But we've got an 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.080 understanding of what the challenges are ahead of us thanks 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:52.040 to the last fifty or so years of really really 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:57.160 really smart physicists working on the problem of nuclear fusion. Uh. 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.920 And the great inspiration for nuclear fusion is the Sun. 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.640 The Sun and all stars like it are enormous, immense 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:10.880 nuclear fusion reactors. So if you are building a nuclear 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.480 fusion reactor here on Earth, you're essentially creating a star, 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:17.840 and that is a very difficult thing to do. It 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:22.000 turns out, yeah, the sun creates and we talked about 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.920 the Sun in our very famous episode on the Sun. Um, 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.160 the sun creates six twenty million metric tons. It fuses 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:34.080 six million metric tons of hydrogen at its core every second. 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.480 So every second at the Sun's core, it produces enough 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:41.280 power to light up New York City for a hundred 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.880 years New York City every second. And that's the Sun. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.320 And all we want to do is do the same 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:52.000 thing on a much smaller scale. Create. I think the 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.280 guy knows this kid who built one in his garage 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.040 and he said he wanted to Chris saw this Ted talk. 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.320 He wanted to create a star in a box is 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.440 what he called it. Yeah, I've seen it, Like this 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:03.560 New Yorker called it a star in a bottle. Yeah. 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.080 This kid's name is Taylor Wilson, and uh, he's a 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:11.960 nuclear physicist and he's like sixteen and he created Yeah, 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:16.040 he he created a successful one. And the key, though, 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.160 is not to be able to create the fusion. That 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.800 the key is to be able to harness enough plasma, 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.560 which we'll get to at a high enough temperature and 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.400 density for there to be a net power gain. Right, 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.720 you can create fusion, but in order to get out 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.280 more than you're putting in is the only thing that matters. 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.480 Because what you want to do is create electricity exactly. 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.880 That's there's two huge challenges right now to nuclear fusion. 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.920 We pretty much understand it enough to start it going 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.040 and and get energy from it. The problem is is 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.480 material science isn't at a point where it can build 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:56.520 a containment vessel to really house a thermonuclear reactor. And 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.200 then the other big obstacle is, like you said, net 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.720 energy gain, Like if you're putting in as much or 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.120 more energy then you're getting out of your nuclear reactor. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.760 Then you're wasting energy, and it's the opposite of what 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:11.680 you're supposed to be doing. Yeah, they're not just trying 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.760 to impress people with their science knowledge, no, but up 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.040 to the trying to create energy. Up to now, though, Chuck, 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:20.920 like every single thermonuclear reactor that's ever been built has 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:25.000 just been impressing people with knowledge. Like, they haven't gotten 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:30.880 any net energy out of a single thermonuclear fusion reactor. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.040 You see, I have that they have their right now, 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:39.440 they're up to like tin uh presently they're at ten megawatts. Yeah, 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.480 and that's more than they put into a net gain 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.520 of tin megawatts currently. Everything I saw was when we 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.760 turned this thing on, it should have a net gain. 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.360 But I didn't see that they've actually done it. Yeah, 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.079 tin megawatts now, and Eider is going to produce five 0:09:54.160 --> 0:10:00.640 hundred megawatts once it's fully operational. So the the next 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.559 challenge then is this, if we're already getting a net 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.280 energy gain out of it, then that means that the 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:10.760 net energy gain is it's not sustainable. Like you said, 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:12.800 you want to keep the thing going so you don't 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.800 have to keep starting from scratch to power it up. 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.440 You wanted to basically be self sustaining, so you just 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:20.880 have to add a little more fuel. That's the dream. 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:25.880 So let's talk about the history of of fusion reactors. Chuck. Yeah, 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.800 it kind of goes back to this guy named Lyman Spitzer. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.360 He's a thirty six year old Princeton astrophysicist and this 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:37.160 was in the nineteen fifties and he was recruited to 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.640 work on the H bomb, and UH went out and 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.840 got a copy of of a of a paper that 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:50.040 was released from Germany, I think, right that Argentina. Argentina. Yeah, 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.480 they announced that they had get that wrong. They had 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:57.960 successfully built a fusion reactor, right. So he gets this paper, UH, 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.600 goes on a ski trip, starts thinking about how he 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.080 can do this takes a little break from his job 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:07.640 building the H bomb and figures out, you know, I 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:12.280 think it's possible if we can harness this plasma. I 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.400 guess we should just go ahead and find what plasma is. 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.080 Since we keep saying it, Well, there's there's the normal 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:22.120 three energy states that were familiar with, water, solid and gas, 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:26.000 liquid solid and gas. Right, there's a fourth one. It's plasma. 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:30.440 And plasma is basically like an energetic gas where the 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.719 temperatures are so high that whatever atoms you put into it, 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.720 the electrons are stripped off and allowed to move around freely. Basically, 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.040 the surface of the Sun is plasma. That's that's what 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.480 plasma is. It's a gas. It's a roiling gas. It's 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.040 really hard to control and is really unpredicted, which is 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.920 when you want to see the Sun like that rippling, 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.880 weighty looking thing, that's plasma, right. And the reason the 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:56.199 Sun manages to stay together is because it is enormously 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.360 massive and has a ton of gravity at its core. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.000 We don't have that advantage here on Earth. We don't, 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.520 so we try to make up for that by increasing 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.000 the temperature. That's right, And he was onto it way 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.200 back then in the nineteen fifties. If we can just 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:12.160 harness this, we can just get hot enough. And he 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:17.480 created a tabletop device called the uh stellar rator and 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.880 it was an a figure eight position. It was a 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.640 pipe and a figure eight uh, and this would keep 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.800 things from banging into walls theoretically. Yeah, and he was 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.720 onto something because well, we'll get to lock youed later. 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:34.000 But they're using a similar device now figure eight. Oh yeah. Yeah, 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.400 we didn't realize that it is, which is weird because 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.320 what they eventually found out was that a donut shape 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.640 was really the key, uh to get that net gain. 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.800 So the and the reason that they found out that 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.760 a donut shape worked was because in the I think 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:52.920 the late fifties, UM, the US had run up against 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.560 the wall. They're saying like, okay, we we've got this, 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.439 but we can't control of the plasma because think about it, 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:03.080 what you're trying to do is create a star inside something, 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.040 but it can't touch any of the vessel that it's 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.600 in or else it'll just completely erupt it. Right. Yeah. 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:13.040 They compared it to holding jelly and rubber bands. Right. 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.040 It was just like you can't they couldn't figure out 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.439 how to control the plasma. So when when the US 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.760 ran up against this wall, they said, hey, the rest 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.760 of the world, we're gonna declassify what Lyman Spitz Lyman 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.640 Spitzer has been doing, and like, we'll share if you 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.600 guys share. And it turns out that the Russians had 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.000 um already come up against this problem and licked it. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.120 They figured out that if you put the thing in 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:42.840 a what's called the toroidal shape, a donut shape um 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:48.439 using electro magnets, you contame the plasma essentially, and the 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.560 the the donut shape itself was pretty ingenious, but the 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.400 real stroke of genius was by running electro magnets in 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.000 rings around the donut. So it's like you you have 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.360 a donut and you put a bunch of earrings around it, right, 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.120 and those are electromagnets. So you're creating an electro magnetic 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.160 force field which contains the plasma. But then you also 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.679 put a an electro magnetic force field in the middle 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.439 of the plasma. So not only does it heat it 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.680 up to the temperatures you want, it also stabilizes it further. 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.680 So the Russians have invented what they call the tacomac um, 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:28.240 which is this doughnut shape nuclear fusion reactor that basically 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:32.520 became the standard for the next fifty years or so. Yeah, 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:37.200 you basically could achieve a really dense, super hot plasma. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.480 And we'll get into temperatures and stuff in a bit. 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.680 But since we can't create that kind of pressure that 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.920 they have in the Sun due to their gravity, their gravity, 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.680 the Sun's gravity, you know, the Sun and all those people. Yeah, 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.040 like you said, we had to make up for it 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.840 here on Earth with temperatures, right, because apparently if you 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:58.320 are in a in the middle of a nuclear reactor, 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.920 a nuclear fusion reactor, um, you're going to find that 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:06.040 the temperatures inside are about six times hotter than the 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.400 core of the Sun, not even the services and the 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.720 core of the Sun. And the reason why it has 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:12.440 to be so much hotter is because, like you said, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.640 we can't we can't replicate that density. We can get 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.880 to those temperatures that we need, but we can't get 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.760 to the density, so we have to make up for it. Um. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:23.920 So we'll talk about kind of the physics of what's 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:25.680 going on here and why you have to have high 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.800 temperatures and what we're making up for with density and everything, Right, 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:37.320 after this. So, Chuck, we're talking about nuclear fusion, and 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:44.560 there's it's actually surprisingly understandable at its most basic core. Yeah, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:46.800 you're fusing atoms. Is not the hardest thing in the 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.080 world to wrap your head around. Yeah. So with fission, 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.280 we're splitting atoms. You're taking an atom and you're splitting 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.400 its nuclei apart. You're splitting the neutrons and the protons 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.680 apart from one another. And when you do that, one 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.800 of the four fundamental four is electromagnetic force pushes them 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.760 away and you get this burst of energy. With fusion, 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.880 you're taking nuclei from different atoms. You're taking protons and 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.240 um neutrons, and you're smashing them together. And when you 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.240 do that, you're unleashing what's called the strong force, which 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.920 appropriately enough is stronger than electromagnetic force, which is why 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:28.560 nuclear fusion yields more energy than nuclear fission. Yeah. Einstein 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.320 himself said, you know, each time you smash these things together, 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:33.520 you're gonna lose a little bit of mass, and that 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.720 little bit of mass is a ton of energy. As 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.760 it turns out, that's right, The famous equals mc square. Yeah, 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:41.840 and I don't think he realized in nineteen o five, 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.280 or maybe Einstein did. Einstein probably did. Yeah, Einstein probably did. 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.440 I would guess he did. So the problem is, even 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.920 though it is very easy to smash the protons together, um, 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.480 there is a tremendous amount of resistance to that smashing together. 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:58.800 They don't want to smash together, no, because it's just 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.960 like if you take a magnet to magnets and you 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.880 put the positive polls toward one another, they repel one another, right, 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.680 the same thing. That's that's the same principle on an 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.560 atomic level too. If you take protons, which are positively 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.560 charged particles, and try to put them together, they repel 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.960 one another. And the closer you get them together, the 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:23.160 stronger the the repellent force is the electromagnetic force, right, 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.200 But if you can get them close enough, the electromagnetic 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:33.040 force is overcome by that strong force, the strong nuclear force, 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.480 and they become bound together because the strong force is 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.120 that one of those four fundamental forces of the universe, 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:43.120 and that is the force that keeps atoms together, and 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.120 that is the that force is stronger than the force 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.600 that repels like charged particles. Yeah, and when you talk 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.400 about close, they need to be within one times ten 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:58.240 to the negative fifteen meters of one another. If you'll 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.600 indulge me, sure, you're gonna read a bunch of zeros. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:05.879 It's point zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:11.240 zero zero zero zero zero zero one meters apart, right, 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.119 that's how close they have to be. That's right, Uh, 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.280 to get them to accept one another and to fuse. Um. 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.520 I think I have a theory that if they they 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.359 are not fusing because they think they're going to be 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.440 made into a bomb, and if we told them that 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.800 we're creating energy, they might be more willing to fuse together. Yeah, 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.800 because protons are peace necks. Everybody knows that. So when 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.399 when they do fuse together, right, when you do cross 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.320 that threshold and the strong force takes over and overcomes 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:43.560 the electromagnetic force. Um, Like we said, a tremendous amount 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.960 of energy is released, and it's released in part in 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:52.520 the form of neutrinos neutrons, right, which are right, neutral 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.919 particles which suddenly start carrying a tremendous amount of kinetic energy. 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.760 So let's say you have one atom, you've got another, 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.000 add them and they're both like, I'm not getting close 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.040 to you. We're not going to get okay, we got 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:09.520 together that force that that mass that's displaced is transferred 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.840 through the neutron that gets kicked off of the atom 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.800 right and is carried out. Now, a neutron doesn't have 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.240 any kind of positive or negative charts. It's neutral. It's 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.600 a neutron, which means that it can pass through the 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:28.719 very electromagnetic fields that are keeping this plasma where this 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:32.679 reaction is taking place together. Once that happens, Chuck, it 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.679 can go out to what's called a blanket wall and 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:39.199 a thermonuclear reactor warm it, and then that heat is 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:43.800 transferred into a water cooling system. The waters warmed up 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:49.320 turns steam, which generates a which I guess moves the turbine, 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.320 and then all of a sudden, the turbines producing electricity. Yeah, 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.760 it's funny how just it gets so complex. But all 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.080 you're still trying to do is create steam. It's like 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.480 a turbine. It's like cooking the eyes that's up to 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.960 a horse, right, you know, move it over there. So 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.879 there are a few types of fusion reactions. Um the 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.560 ultimate goal right now, what we can do on a 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:18.040 small scale is what's called a uh deuterium tritium reaction. 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.840 That's the one that we can currently achieve. That's one 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.840 atom of deuterium and one atom of tritium combining to 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.399 form a helium four atom and a neutron. The ultimate goal. 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:30.320 I mean, that's good and that will create a lot 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:34.120 of energy, but there are a few downsides. Tritium is radioactive. 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.960 For one, um, you have to mind it from lithium. Yeah, 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.479 and lithium is fairly rare um. The ultimate goal is 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:45.200 to to reach deuterium deuterium reactions, which is two deuterium 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:48.040 atoms combining to form that helium three in a neutron. 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.639 And you can get that from the sea water. It's abundant, 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.639 almost limitless um. And I couldn't find this, but I 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.920 think clean water can be a residual effect of that. 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.520 Am I wrong? I don't know if it's if well, 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.760 you're probably not injecting water, but to get the deuterium, 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.160 I mean, desalination plants are the key to the future 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.720 as far as supplying the world with fresh water. Yeah, 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.280 I thought I saw somewhere where it was an actual byproduct, 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:18.560 but yeah, but then I couldn't find it, so I'm 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:20.040 not sure if that's right or you know what, you 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.000 just chalk my memory. I feel like in a hydrogen 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.520 powered car, water is one of the by products. So 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.120 maybe so yeah, all right, don't quote me on that though. 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.320 Um at the very least, it's a great way to 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:35.080 create energy, right and and what what's you also can 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:40.280 get um tritium from helium, I believe so even now 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:45.159 with the the deuterium tritium reactions that we're working on, 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.560 there's there's already a there's a work around, you know, 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:52.040 like you can create a thermonuclear reactor that's a breeding 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.960 reactor to where the byproduct helium can be used to 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:59.080 harvest more of the fuel you're using tritium. Yeah, aren't 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.840 we running low on helium? We are? Which is like 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:05.760 remember when we were talking about in the dirigible the Zeppelin, 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.760 which one was how blimps work? Yeah, and then a 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:13.240 long time ago we did one on the Mars turbine. 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:17.399 Mars turbine. But yes, there's very clearly helium shortage and 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:21.080 the idea that we're just using it for party balloons 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:25.480 rather than this is scary. Yeah, And don't be confused. 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.320 We say things like deuterium and it sounds super complex. 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.959 All that is hydrogen with an extra neutron. Yeah, it's 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:35.120 an isotope. So there's three isotopes of hydrogen, and they're 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.480 all still the same element. They're all still hydrogen, but 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.119 they have different configurations as far as their neutrons go. 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:46.159 So protium is a hydrogen isotope with one proton and 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:50.120 no neutrons. Deuterium is a hydrogen isotope with one proton 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:53.840 and one neutron, and tritium is a hydrogenitri isotope with 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:56.920 one proton and two neutrons. And like you said, tritium 0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:59.960 is radioactive, but the beauty of it is you need 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:03.439 very very very little of it to to fuel a 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:09.040 nuclear fusion reactor, and it becomes a stable helium, a 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.760 non radioactive helium in the reactor, so you don't have 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:17.080 this leftover radioactive fuel. I think they said there's an 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:20.120 it would be equivalent of the radiation we just see 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.760 every day, and I'm walking around on the street right Yes, 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:26.160 the background radiation. I believe I saw that too. The 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:29.720 thing is is the parts to the nuclear reactor themselves 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:34.800 will become irradiated over time. Apparently, though compared to the 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:40.280 kind of radio activity that's generated from nuclear fission um. 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:42.520 This stuff you could just disassemble and bury in the 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.040 desert for a hundred years, go back and dig back up, 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:49.439 and it will be totally inactivated. So it's it's the 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:53.840 stuff that is radioactive is extraordinarily manageable. Yeah, it is. 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:56.439