WEBVTT - Putin Says His War in Ukraine Will Continue 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes, Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.479 Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.439 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.360 Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.800 search Bloomberg Global News. Well, Ukrainian Russian officials meeting again 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:37.000 for a third round of talks, but Russian leader Vladimir 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.320 Putin saying Kiev must agree to his demand. Uh, and 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:42.720 that's if fighting is to end. So there's that going on. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.080 You've got the House also exploring a bill that would 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.959 ban the import of Russian oil and energy products. Um, 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.080 there's just a lot of zigzag right now. That's certainly 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.360 seeing it play out in the market. As Charlie just explained. 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.080 Bill Fairies is National Security Team leader for Bloomberg News. 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.400 Bill joins us on the phone from Washington. Uh, Bill, 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.440 I just want to start with with where things are 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.959 when it comes to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. As we 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.440 you know, get past day twelve at this point, Um, 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:10.679 bring us up to speed on on on the important 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.920 things that we should be keeping an eye on. Well, 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:17.520 the thanks for having me. The Russian offensive is, you know, 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:22.200 just grinding on here, getting closer to uh, closer to Kieva, 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.360 getting into some of the suburbs of the capital city, 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:28.679 and also pushing in across on the east and south 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:31.840 of the country. We've got about one point five million 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.480 people who have been displaced either internally in Ukraine or 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:39.480 who have fled, mostly mostly to Poland. And you have 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.000 these talks that have been going on but really not 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.000 achieving very much between Ukrainian and Russian officials. There's been 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:51.000 no agreement on creating humanitarian passages out of some of 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.960 the more besieged areas of the country. And you have 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.920 almost on a day by day basis, either a ratchet 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:03.120 enough of sanctions from US and mostly European nations, or 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.440 you also have a lot of what we're calling self 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.160 sanctioning companies that are just pulling out regardless of whether 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.240 they are legally legally required to. You know, over the 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.280 weekend we saw that coming from companies from KPMG to 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:21.040 Netflix and TikTok Uh and American Express, among many others. 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:26.320 So I don't know how even figure out what's next 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.400 or how long this goes on. Bill, What are some 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.679 of the smart conversations to have around that, and maybe 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:35.920 they're realistic conversations. Well, the big debate right now is 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:40.680 how far our nations willing to go on Russian energy supplies. 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.400 And there's a big push and I think and this 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:45.839 is a case where the administration is probably the Biden 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.960 administration is probably a little bit behind Congress on this. Um. 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.359 There's a lot of bipartisan support for the US to 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.640 ban Russian energy imports, but it's pretty clear that a 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.519 lot of European nations are not ready to take that step. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:01.760 And what you hear in the US is, you know, 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:05.240 we're we're pushing back, We're pushing back on Putin and 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.240 his war. But yet, you know, as long as the 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.320 West is continuing to buy this energy, you're basically helping 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:16.760 pay for his his his conflict in Ukraine. So um, 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.280 But the US and Europe are just in different positions 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.560 when it comes to that. In Germany in particular, you know, 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.800 earlier in this I think it was last month you 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.239 saw the sanctions come up on the nord Stream to 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.560 gas pipeline that had never really sent energy into Germany. 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:35.240 It was basically ready except for some environmental permits. But 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.839 there is a nord Stream one pipeline, the original nord 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:41.200 Stream pipeline, and that is providing a lot of energy 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:45.160 that Germany's economy feels like it can't do without right now. So, uh, 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:47.760 you're starting to see a divide on how how much 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.240 further some of these countries can go. We're still waiting 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.120 to see if some of these oligarchs have their yachts 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:58.640 and jet uh seized by authorities in Europe or or 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.480 authorities in the United States. It's but yeah, when you 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.000 talk about the end game, I mean it's it's very 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.680 hard to know what, you know, what would be the 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:11.520 straw that finally convinces putin that economically this is not 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.000 worth it. And I don't think anybody has that answer. 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.360 And forgive me, I hate to the endgame because it's 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.640 not a game. We know people are losing their lives here. 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:26.480 I do also wonder the US doesn't feel the impact 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:32.640 economically as severely as their European allies do. And I 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.120 do wonder if the US just has to take its 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:40.400 cues from Europe on this because of that. Well, you know, 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.000 there are things that the U S could do. It 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.599 could still go ahead and ban the importation of Russian 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.200 petroleum products. Um, it's not a huge amount of our 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:54.240 imports at this point, and um there's probably some substitutes 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.440 that could be found. The end result is that, you know, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.520 I think that I think those goods will find their 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.840 way to other markets, but some of the disruptions could 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.680 have an impact here on things like gas prices at 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.400 the pump, which we're already seen are you know, near 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.120 a record at this point. So I think that's something 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.240 the administration is concerned about that they say, well, we 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.560 could do this, but it's not going to necessarily affect Russia, 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.320 but it's really going to affect us. UM. So it's 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:25.120 almost like a political moral decision at this point for 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.599 the U S. If no one else goes along. And 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.000 we're certainly seeing, at least from a from a moral perspective, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.040 Like you said, Bill, some companies that are self sanctioning 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:35.960 um Bill. I want to ask you a question that 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:38.320 I think we spoke about last week, which is what 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:44.080 happens with multinational companies on the other side of this conflict. 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.480 And I know we can't really speculate, but but I'm 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.479 just wondering if, if if Russia ends up turning into 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.640 some sort of international pariah akin to North Korea, for example, 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:57.279 where the entire Russian population is essentially cut off from 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:02.680 quote unquote Western goods and services. Well, you're you're definitely 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.080 seeing that to some degree, you know, even if you've 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.120 just looked at things like social media. And I don't 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.120 want to overstate that, but you know, people are being 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:14.200 cut off from some of the non Russian information sources 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.200 that they had even a couple of weeks ago. The 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.520 Russian media was always going to present the government's point 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:22.360 of view on things, but at least if you had 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:26.039 access to TikTok or Facebook or something like that, you 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.840 might have a chance of seeing what what many and 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.080 the rest of the world see in terms of what's 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.920 happening in Ukraine. But I think you're right there, there's 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.360 gonna be a lot more isolation. You're seeing Russian companies 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:42.200 pulling out of Western Europe finding they can't do business there. Um. 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.320 But it's a huge country. It's surrounded by you know everything. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.839 You know, it's got Europe on one side and China 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.279 on the other, Japan just off the coast. It's hard, 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.359 it's hard for it to be completely uh in the 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.520 same categories North Korea. All Right, Bill Fairies, National Security 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.880 team leader at Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.039 with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.520 Bloomberg Radio. So, as we've said, the Russian invasion and 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.720 subsequent war in Ukraine has many consequences in front. We've 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.679 talked about the military and cyber wars. It is also 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.560 though a humanitarian crisis, and that was something we wanted 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.640 to get into. More than one point five million refugees 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.880 have fled the war in Ukraine thus far. Dr Ian 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.360 lush Bader is clinical professor of medicine at and y 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.880 U Langnes Medical Center. He joined us on the phone 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.160 from New York City. Uh. Dr LUs Bader, I wanted 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:33.920 to talk about you know, we've been covering the war 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:35.800 in Ukraine, Russia's invasion of Ukraine from a lot of 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:40.800 different perspectives. From the medical perspective as a doctor, when 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.360 you see the images, when you see the reporting, when 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:47.120 you read the reporting, what's your instinct that kicks in? 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.160 What do you think about? Hi, Carol and Tim. It's 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:55.960 really terrible. It is a medical and humanitarian crisis. You know, 0:07:56.000 --> 0:08:01.000 when you target UH and bomb civilians in hospitals, UM, 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:05.520 you're really and nuclear plants. You're putting so many innocent 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.600 people at risk. And many of these acts really meet 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:14.080 criteria for war crimes according to the Haguen Geneva Conventions. 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:20.080 UM attacking civilians hospitals in Kharkivan, Kursan, or running out 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:24.000 of supplies, they're more in the eastern part, running low 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.880 on oxygen. And part of the problem is how do 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:31.960 you actually deliver any of these supplies. You know, we're 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:36.280 seeing a number of countries, eighty six countries, thirteen international organizations, 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.199 foreign healthcare workers are all making efforts, but basically all 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.720 these supplies have to go to Poland and then go 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.880 over land. And part of the problem it's a very 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:50.360 big country, is there are no safe carridors to get 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.760 to hospitals that are far from the Polish border. Um 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.680 and I think that from a global perspective, you know, 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.240 we've barely cope with a two to three year pandemic, 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.640 millions of lives lost, patients, and people are concerned about 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:09.719 nuclear escalation with threats, So there's you know, we're all 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.000 seeing this and I think people are in an emotional state, 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:17.520 barely recovering. So you know, the real questions what do 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.600 we do We Obviously there are the w H show. 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.359 It's very active. They're sending thirty six tons of supplies 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.280 and medical supplies, individual companies like Henry Shine and others. 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:30.959 There's a lot of volunteer. The real question is how 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:35.000 do you get them to these isolated, surrounded UH spots 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.440 in the war zone. And to me, it comes to 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:42.160 mind in after World War Two the Berlin Airlift, Right, 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:46.120 the Soviets cut off Berlin, surrounded it and you needed 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:50.040 an airlift to actually drop supplies. They successfully supplied Berlin 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.120 for over a year. You know, how to do that 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.440 in a combat zone would be a challenge, and we 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.839 need to think about maybe a United Nations not NATO 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.760 no fly zone, but a U n UH no fly 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.720 zone that would really be seen as more neutral and humanitarian, 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.199 but There are a lot of details with that that 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.080 would have to be worked out, but it's very stressful 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:16.240 for for people. Their babies are being delivered in subways, 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:21.640 maternity hospitals. Literally you're under threat, they're being bombed and mothers. 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.360 I mean it's forty million people babies get delivered every 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.920 day and some are being delivered in the dark in subways. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.839 It's it's unimaginable. Well, I'm merely the solution is to 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.560 end the war, right, That's how you relate, because there's 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.760 just so much you can do in a war in 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:41.559 a war zone. Yeah, I mean, the challenges is how 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.839 to do that and of course, um, there is some 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:52.120 tent tentative feeling about escalation when potentially uh nuclear weapons 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:56.200 are involved, but there will be no stop. You know, 0:10:56.280 --> 0:11:00.000 there's what the Baltic States and further expansion. If you're 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.959 always going to threaten nukes sooner or later, there has 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:08.120 to be a direct confrontation otherwise you a bully will 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:12.200 always win. You. You have to stand up and say 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.560 you know this far and no further. Um, But it 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.839 has to be done carefully. A UN no fly zone 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:25.520 would be helpful where you can justify protecting humanitarian aid. 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.280 There are some legal issues, right, Russia's on the Security 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:33.439 Council and so forth, But there are exclusions to combatants. 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:37.240 So if Russia and China are considered combatants, they have 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.840 to be excluded from a Security Council resolution. I don't 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.280 know fly zone. So there are legal ways to do 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.760 this if you want to do it. I we only 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.400 have about thirty seconds left. Um. You mentioned the idea 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.320 of a Berlin airlift type of scenario, but how our countries? 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:57.000 How can countries continue to provide aid to these areas well? 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.960 I think for the time being, UM, we have to 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:05.360 work through organizations like the wh Show and individual companies 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:09.000 of Henry seein medical supply companies, and there are a 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.720 number of volunteer organizations. Even Bethanie Frankel has raised ten 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.160 to twenty million dollars. People need to go on the 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.200 internet and see how they can help UH and even 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.520 if they get into Poland, at least there can be 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.319 some overland routes. All right, good to check in with you, Ian. 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:26.400 Thank you so much. Dr Alas paid or his clinical 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.920 professor of medicine at n y U Landgoing Medical Center 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.559 joining us on the phone in New York City. This 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.600 is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.560 Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio and the current issue 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.480 of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. It's about the hundred billion 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.079 dollar bet on five G wireless technology. Remember five G 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.199 was going to just solve all that ails us to him, Oh, 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.560 it totally has. I mean, doctors around the world are 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.920 doing robotic surgery. They don't even have to be there 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.240 in person. At least that's what the executives from these 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.800 telecom companies told me a few years ago. Truly they 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.319 did did. I would interview them all the time, and 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.280 they were talking about the life changing things of five G. 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:04.920 Joel Webber is editor at Bloomberg Business Week. He's with 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.680 us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. Jim Alice's assistant 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.600 managing editor at Bloomberg Business Week. He also joins us 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.280 in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. Joel, So, why uh 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:17.000 five G was was launched? I I have five G. Uh, 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.200 I don't feel like my life is any different. Remember 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:24.800 the Great Simpsons Monoreel episode Monreil Monorail. It feels to 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:26.960 me a little bit as I was reading uh this 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.880 five G story UM by Scott Morris, and in the 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.240 latest issue it felt a little bit like that minus 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:36.200 the catchy song where you're right like, we heard about 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.000 five G and we haven't heard about it forever, and 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.120 it's like how it's going to be this game changer 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.800 and up end everything we know about the world, and 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.640 and here we are living in a five G world 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.120 and it feels exactly like it daid before. Um, So, Jim, 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.760 hundred billion dollars have gone into this investment. It is 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:56.920 sort of amazing for that much money to be spent 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.319 and not really have something. I have a lot. Five 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:05.319 wasn't quite working right there. Well, what happened was that, um, 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.120 you know, everybody sort of believed I don't wanna say 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.400 the hype, but maybe they got the timing wrong. Definitely, UM. 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.600 And so the notion that they would spend essentially double 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:16.760 what was spent on four G. I mean four G 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:21.320 we spent about uh sixty billion bucks and on on licenses, 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.480 and so the notion that you would jump in throw 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:26.440 a hundred and I guess it was about a hundred 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.520 eighteen billion dollars in licenses out there and say okay, 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:31.560 now we're gonna go out and sell five G. The 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.480 problem was there's no five G applications for most things, 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.160 and so all the hype doctors before the telecom horse 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.320 or what is this, well, yeah, it actually is that. 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.840 I mean the notion that long term you probably will 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.200 have doctors who can do aboutic surgery using sort of 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.160 you know, five G connections that are super fast. But 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.520 I probably won't be alive when that happens, you know. 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:54.720 So the thing is that we're going to be alive 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.080 forever time, I hope, so, you know, but thanks, that's 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:03.880 not going to And so what happened then is that, um, 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.680 you know, they've introduced a lot of five G handsets 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.280 without a lot of applications for it, and so people 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.960 are not willing to pay extra for it. So a 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.960 lot of the cell phone operators are having to basically 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.480 give away FIGG handsets and hopes of jump starting the 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:20.480 five G demands. I actually my carrier. I'm not gonna 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:21.960 say who it is, but I keep getting these texts 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:23.760 like you didn't get a new phone with five gene. 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:25.760 I'm like, I've got the new phone and I've already 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.520 got the five G. But but they're being really aggressive 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.480 of wanting you to kind of ramp up. There could 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:35.960 be three sorry, there are only three carriers exactly. Well, 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:37.920 they've got to try to get out there and build 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.000 up that market and essentially, um you know, the big 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.920 advantage of FIG right now is that it has something 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.680 called low latency, in other words, very fast pick up, 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.680 so you don't have to await time despite large distances. 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:52.600 The problem is that we don't really have a lot 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.400 of applications for that. So what we're really seeing now 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.960 is they're doing it on um you know, being able 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.880 to put to find something that places WiFi. Okay, that's 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.560 a big deal though, because that's a that's a significant 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.160 cost for for people who you know, just have a 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.120 high speed broadband connection at home and they don't have 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.800 a lot of choice because we're talking you know, these 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.240 telecom companies coming in and they don't have a lot 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:20.120 of choice. But don't get too excited, because a lot 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.280 of these developmentists actually help most in areas that don't 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.640 have a lot of access to broadband, and so it 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.400 might not be as super fast as the broadband that 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.520 you would get from from a local cable company. Now 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.680 a lot of people will argue that point, but just 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.520 remember that uh um, a lot of things that are promised, 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:43.560 maybe like that robotic surgery. The other dimension of this 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.560 story that I think is really interesting is like you've 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.160 got the carriers and they're the ones that have really 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.200 been paying up. But in in in the back, here 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:55.440 are the Facebook's apples, Microsoft's that play right, So how 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.960 do those two factions end up potentially warring yet again 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.040 in this in the in well two things. First of all, 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.640 there it's been the sort of weird marriage of these competitors. 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.159 I mean basically the guys who run the pipe, the 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.959 network operators, you know, the wireless carriers, and the guys 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.800 who are basically the ones who profit from all this connectivity, 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:20.200 the Googles and the facebooks, and they're right now working 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.720 together because they've got to figure out ways to push 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.679 these new services to businesses since consumer services aren't out 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.639 there paying the bills right now. So you're pushing the 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.440 businesses to put a pin in sort of private networks 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.720 in house to do other things that require ultra high speeds. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.760 But we've seen this happen before with four G that 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.520 when you say, um, oh, we're gonna make all this 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:45.399 money for everybody. It turns out that this increased connectivity 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:49.200 really gets most money for those so called web scalers, 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.560 the big web companies that use data, and not for 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.040 the guys who run the pipe. And so that's the 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.520 danger that they spend all the money, but they're probably 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.600 not going to be the ones who actually make the 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.080 most out of this. Alright, So think about our audience, right, 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.479 For years we've heard from the telecoms CEO, but this 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.320 was going to be so incredible, right, and you think 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.760 about their bottom line. So I don't know. Is it 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.520 just a case of timing, as you said? And so 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:14.800 we do start to see the payoffs, well, you will 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.240 see a payoff in five g. The question is whether 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.840 that payoff is going to go to network operators. And 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.240 that's the big undecided question. We've already paid a lot 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:24.760 of move already paid a lot of money for it. 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:26.640 I'm telling you right now. For a lot of investors, 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.760 they'll say, Facebook, Microsoft, Google, do I want to put 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:32.639 my money there? Are with the guys who were on 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:37.600 the pipe. Okay, last question, Jim, driverless cars, that was 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.440 another problem, going to make them sing the mono? No, 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.480 this was like the promise from executives years ago. You 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.240 know this is perfect for IoT, smart cities, driverless cars. 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:49.000 Uh anything there? Well, I did you take a car? 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.000 I would not hold my breath waiting on the application 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:56.240 that comes to four. Okay, there we go. Well it's 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.600 really you know, I just googled it. I'm like, wait, wait, 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.440 we're gonna play this. Um, good story. Thank you so much. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:06.159 Joe Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week, here in our 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.920 Interactive Broker studio along with Jim Ellis, Assistant Managing editor 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.359 at Bloomberg Business Week. Also in studio, you're listening to 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.400 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:22.720 Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. The escalation of warrant sanctions 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.240 that are increasingly pushing Russian President Vladimir Puttin into a 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.520 corner with possible dire consequences. You know that we talked 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.080 about it. Uh, certainly concerned about a nuclear war. Um, 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.320 but it does have some asking is there some kind 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.439 of off ramp for Russia? Tim Andy Brown is editorial 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:40.760 director at Bloomberg New Economy. He joins us on the 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:45.199 phone from New York City. Uh, Andy. You you're in 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:49.080 this week's New Economy Saturday. You write not just about 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:53.160 Russia but about China as well. Um. We talked last 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:57.440 week about the relationship between the president she and Vladimir 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.240 Putin and what they what they were both told ahead 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.359 of this, or what she was told ahead of this? Um, 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.320 where do we see ourselves now? And how? How and 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.520 how you're thinking of of China's faithful choice in tying 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:12.920 up with Russia. Well, this, this really is a critical 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:17.119 question of what did she, jimping know what did Putin 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.080 tell him when the two of them met just ahead 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.840 of the Olympic names in Beijing. And the position of 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.879 the US government is that um Putin did share his 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:30.080 war plans with with She. Um. And even if you 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:32.080 believe that, though, I mean, the question is, you know 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.639 how much detailed did Putin share with him? Did he 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:40.080 convince Uh She as he appears to have convinced himself 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:41.760 that this was a war that was going to be 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.720 all over in a couple of days. The Russians would 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:48.120 move in, and the Ukrainian defenders would lay down their arms, 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.440 and the people of Ukraine would welcome the Russian arrivals 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:55.760 as liberators. From the Nazi cabal that was supposedly running 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.679 Ukraine that obviously hasn't happened. Then Russia is now bulked 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:03.080 down in a two week war which increasingly looks like 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.200 it's going to become an extended war of attrition UH 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.720 in Ukraine and Russia is in China is now in 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:12.520 a really untenable position. Well, and that's you know, in 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:14.280 the lead and I talked about, you know, we're wondering 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.000 is there an off ramp for Russia where President Putin 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.080 feels really back into a corner? But you right in 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.040 your weekend column that a similar question might be asked 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.919 about China because of its affiliation relationship with Russia. Is 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:31.399 there an off ramp for China? You know, it's really 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:36.560 looking increasingly as though China is doubling down on Putin 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.359 in spite of all the atrocities in the prospect of 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.080 an intensification UH and an increase in the in the 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:49.160 violence of of Putin's invasion of Ukraine. I think that 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.440 they share a very similar outlook they world view. They're 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.639 both determined. The United States has held bent on holding 0:21:55.680 --> 0:22:00.199 them down, on containing them, on using military alliance is 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.520 to prevent their rise to where they considerably their proper 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:07.040 place in the world, which Russia means reassembling somehow the 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:11.080