WEBVTT - Rob Collins Returns 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:06.280 And when I find my ball in. 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:11.480 A brid egg Frida, egg Frida, egg Frida egg bride 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:13.680 egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:39.520 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Podcast. 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:45.120 Today's episode is with Rob Collins. Rob is one of 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:49.480 the principles of King Collin's design. He, along with Tad King, 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:54.040 are a up and coming golf architecture firm. So Rob 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:59.000 was the fourth episode of the Friday Egg Podcast ever. 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.800 So it's been a while since Rob was on, but 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.720 one of our earliest guests coming back on. I was 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.360 really excited to chat with Rob. It had been too long. 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.640 Should have had him on many times before. Since that podcast, 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.560 they've built courses Sweeten's Cove, but they've also opened innis 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.720 Landman and they are in the process of putting the 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:26.280 finish finishing touches on Red Feather down in Lubbock, Texas, 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.720 and have some exciting new projects in the hopper. So 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:34.240 we discussed a wide range of topics in this podcast, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:43.199 and without further ado, here is Rob Collins. Robert spent 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:48.440 a long time, very long time og Frida Egg pod 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.920 guests in the first I think in the first five episodes. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:53.560 I think it might be episode four. 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.400 I really hope we have better audio today. I think 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:57.320 we have better audio. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:02.400 I can almost assure you that we will. We are not. 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.600 You know, the audio on my end is not coming 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.680 through my MacBook speakers and being recorded on my phone. 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.959 So yeah, and I'm not I'm not on a I'm 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:16.720 not driving to Knoxville in the rain and like on 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:18.680 a bad speaker phone or something. 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.560 Those old episodes, like I if if you were going 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.600 to torture me, it would be having me listen to 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.440 my early episodes, that would be. That'd be about as 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.440 much as you could torture me. I think I think 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:33.519 it'd be worse than like bodily harm. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:36.880 That was fun it's it's it's funny how many people 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.800 still talk to me, you know, they say, you know, 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.440 they they they heard that episode. That was that made 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:44.760 a big difference for us. 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.920 Yeah, what's uh, what's the new? You're one of the 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:51.239 busiest guys in golf now and uh and and where 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.360 where you been? Uh? What's what's been? Kind of like 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.560 the last last year, I imagine, you know, you set your 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.360 intentions with it being at the new year. When you 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.840 look back on twenty twenty two, what were the things 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:04.760 that stood out for you? 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:11.400 Well, we you know, we're really really deep into Red 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:15.120 Feather at that point and made a ton of progress 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:19.839 out there, so that was a big, big deal for us. 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.640 And then you know, the culmination of getting Landman open, 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:28.440 I mean that was that was huge. I mean it 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.359 was funny it opened. Will set the opening date for 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.840 September four, twenty twenty two, which was the three year 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.520 anniversary of when we were out there, and I mean 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.920 that's hard to believe that it was twenty nineteen, but 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:42.880 you know, he really took the extra time to make 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.440 sure that it was dialed in and everything and hit 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.200 that anniversary and that was that was really special. That's 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:51.280 something I'll never forget. 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:53.520 You know. One of the things that'll stick with me 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:57.360 with Landman and the construction project project and process of 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.160 being out there a decent amount is like you know, 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.120 just going out there and seeing those scrapers moving for 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.320 like entire days on one fair way and just the 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.800 you know the amount of earth work that had had 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.560 to happen to make you know, certain areas of that 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.880 property golfable, and you know it three years is a 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:23.159 long time, but in terms of that project, it feels 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:24.760 like it was actually kind of short. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:29.320 Yeah, yeah, I mean that was it was definitely a 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:34.000 herculean effort. We were so lucky to have some unbelievably 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:38.440 talented guys out there helping us. And you know, in 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:39.960 a way, it's funny. I mean it's kind of like 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.560 Sweetens in a way, like the more the harder you try, 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.040 the more you know, attached you get to it. And 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.440 you know that it was just a difficult project because 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.479 of how much work had to be done, and then 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.800 you know, Will made a really good decision to to 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.200 sold it, you know, but even then, I mean it 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.760 still took still took time to get it dialed in, 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.279 and so when it was finally ready, I mean you 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.599 just built up to this moment in time and that 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:14.200 was I just that was what a couple of days. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:15.000 That was awesome. 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.120 Hey, you know, I wanted to kind of take back 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.680 obviously the first time, you know, when we did this 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.360 a long time ago. Yeah, Sween's Cove was in like 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.720 a completely different place, right, Yeah, I. 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.919 Mean, in a death spiral basically, I. 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.200 Think about it. It's you know, we we both at 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.440 that point we had had businesses that we didn't really 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.880 know what the future held for them. And you know, 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:45.360 I think there's probably you probably could go back and 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:49.440 count on you know, you could list off dozens of 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:55.520 moments like pinch me moments in different formative important moments 0:05:55.600 --> 0:06:00.360 of Sweden's Cove. But like if there's one like time 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.960 where you thought, I can't believe this is happening in 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:08.320 its history, your time there, what would it be? 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:15.960 Well, I think, you know, definitely, definitely the biggest moment 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:22.479 was when when the group finally came together, the ownership group. 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.080 We had searched long and hard for a really long 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.120 time to find a great group to partner with, and 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.640 I was coming off the back of actually turning down 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:39.520 a very very successful golf developer who's done really good projects. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.120 Have a lot of respect for him, but we just 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:45.320 couldn't come to agreement on the numbers. And you know, 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:49.159 going through the negotiations with Mark was was a breeze 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.719 and it was we just could tell, you know, it 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.440 was it was going to happen, and it was going 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:59.320 to work. And then you know, when the story of 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.760 when I was out to dinner with with Mark and 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.360 Tom Nolan and I didn't know Peyton was going to 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:07.920 be one of the partners, and when Peyton walked into 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.000 the restaurant and they all surprised me with that, that 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:13.880 was just like, holy shit. I mean, I can't believe 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:18.520 this is happening. I just couldn't believe it. That was 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.880 I mean, that's still just you know, get tears in 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.320 my eyes thinking about it. 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:28.000 Really, it's an unbelievable surprise. Like you know, it was. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.600 An unbelievable surprise. It was just a big it was 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.560 I mean, it was the biggest surprise. I mean, uh, 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:38.360 Will Bardwell wrote a great piece about that. And every 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.800 time I read the restaurant scene, you know, from time 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:43.520 to time, once a year or something, I'll go back 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.280 and read that article and it always it gets a 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:48.680 little dusty every time I get to that scene. That 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.200 was a that was a big deal. And it's it's 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.520 awesome having those guys on board. I mean, it's been 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.960 so fun to watch it. And now you know, with 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.720 Matta Danski running things, I mean he's taken it to 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.360 a whole new level. I mean he's just an amazing 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:08.160 GM and so creative and so passionate about it, and 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.960 that place needs somebody who's going to live and breathe 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.120 that experience because it's so different, and he just does 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.720 an incredible job, and it just it just keeps getting better. 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.040 And every year we think of, you know, ways we 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.240 can make the experience better, and and just we always 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.840 try to make it better for people. And I think 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.920 that's really helped it continue to be fun and attractive. 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:38.040 Yeah, I mean the at that at Sweetens that there 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.959 has to be a definitive culture ceter right. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.920 And yeah, you know a great way to say it. 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:50.320 It was Patrick before Matt and it's just you know, 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:55.160 in a way, and obviously that the model, the business 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.000 model of the golf course has changed tremendously. You know, 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.679 the way people think of sweet and Scove has changed 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:06.840 completely from five years ago, yeah to now. And it's 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.760 you guys now in a way like you were kind 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.920 of like the little engine that could, but now I 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.600 imagine in a way that you're kind of with the 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.920 all day passes, the high demand, you know, like you 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:24.800 have become this bucket list you're almost you have to 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.920 deliver an experience from when somebody gets out of the 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.319 car with with the golf court. How has that changed 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:35.080 and how you guys think about, you know, delivering a 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.720 experience for like a top notch experience for people, because obviously, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.960 like the I think the expectations of when somebody goes 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.840 there is dramatically different than you know, five six years ago. 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.840 There's no question. I mean I think people had had 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.880 zero expectations. I mean one of my best friends, he's 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.800 become a great friend through Sweden's guy named John Allen. 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:58.360 You know, he went out there and he was a 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.480 huge supporter of ours very early. Remember and his first 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.320 time out there. I'll always get tickled here in his 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.320 story because he he went and played nine holes and 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.200 he walked up to the shed and just walked straight 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.920 up to Patrick. John's very straightforward. He said, what the 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:14.960 hell is this place doing here? I mean it just 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:17.640 it didn't make sense, you know, like how is this 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:21.240 golf course here? And then also why am I like 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:26.120 the only player here? And so but then people who 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.120 just people who didn't know about it. I mean they 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.520 had very low expectations, as you said before, and now 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:37.199 there's a very high expectation. And that's something we talk 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.320 about all the time. And that's where Matt and Colt 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.600 and those guys just I think they do an absolutely 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:49.480 amazing job of having this immersive experience and treating everyone, 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.199 you know, really well and like they're like they're a 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.600 house guest almost, you know, and a cherished house guest 0:10:57.679 --> 0:10:59.360 coming in and you just want to show him a 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.000 great time. And so that's something we talk about a lot. 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.439 And you know, we fell into the all day pass 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.840 thing by accident, and that was the result of you know, 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.079 the golf course being too crowded, and we we we 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.559 figured out that let's do this all day pass thing 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.120 and see how that works. And then it became that 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:19.560 became really popular, and you know, each year we we 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.880 strive to get better on the experience side of it. 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:24.760 And this year one of the things we're going to 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.040 be doing to make it better is we're going to 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.360 work with a food provider, you know, like a food truck, 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.920 so you'll actually be able to get food there rather 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.760 than you know, ordering out to dominos. 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:37.360 I mean, that's huge, and it's going to be a tough 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:38.479 break for the subways. 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:41.560 Yeah, a tough break for the subway. The good and 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:47.840 the bad subway, so you know things like that. You know, 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.599 we want to you know, improve the you know, furniture 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.080 and kind of hang out space up top, and we 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.360 just want people to be really comfortable and have a 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.800 great time and not want for anything. So, you know, 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:04.440 as we've gotten into it and seen it grow, I 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.160 think we're you know, in a place where we can 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:07.880 do certain things you know, we couldn't do a couple 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:08.480 of years ago. 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:14.120 So how how does being on the side of you know, 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.960 you're part of an ownership, part of people, that part 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:21.439 of a group that makes decisions about the daily operation 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:28.160 of a golf course. Does that help you with talking 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:32.400 with perspective owners about new projects? 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:39.160 Absolutely? I mean Sweetens has given me in Tad too, 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.920 you know, Tad's experience prior to us going out on 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:46.760 our own. I mean he had a lot of experience 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.440 in setting up operations too, and so that combined and 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:54.199 Tad's been intimately involved in the launch of Sweetens and 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.679 he always knows what's going on. So both of us 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:03.000 collectively having been through all that, it's given us a 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:08.280 wealth of knowledge and experience that we can give suggestions. 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:13.160 And one thing that I've noticed just with how the 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.160 way golf is going and the way consumers are kind 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:20.120 of looking for golf is more what I would call 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:25.199 like an immersive type of experience. People are less interested 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:30.199 and less inclined to just you know, going and getting 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.079 a ten twenty tea time and there's a ten to 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.800 twenty eight behind it, and that's like punching a clock 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:41.200 at work. You know. These very rigid systems that we've 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.360 had that you and I grew up with playing golf 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.080 are going away, and people are looking for kind of 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.320 a more immersive, authentic experience, and so we try to 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:55.160 think about creative ways to deliver that in various formats. 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.440 I mean, some of our clients have private clubs and 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:02.559 some are republic but you try to you think a 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.680 lot about the experience and how that's the whole thing, 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.760 and how the golf course architecture can tie into that. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.800 Yeah, if you create you know, I think one of 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:19.640 the things that the all day pass and I've never 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.720 actually like, I've been there all day a number of times, 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.960 you know, for different things. I've never participated the all 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.240 day past thing. But the way I kind of think 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.800 about it in my head is that what you've done 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.920 is the traditional public golf experience is kind of like 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.480 a movie. Right, you have your showtime, you show up, 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.240 you know you're there a little bit ahead of time. 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.840 You get your popcorn, you get your your drink, you 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.440 watch your movie, and then you leave. And what you've 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.240 almost done with the all day past there is you've 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.600 created more of like a feel of like a music festival, 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:02.680 where you know, you show up up, you're watching one show. 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.960 You might bounce over to a different stage for a while. 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.000 You might decide, hey, let's just hang out here for 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.440 a little bit and stop playing golf. But then I'm 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.040 going to jump back out, you know, in twenty minutes. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.400 And it's much more of a free flowing I'm here 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.080 all day. And I think one of the things it 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.840 does is it actually like it makes the golf more 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.120 casual in a way, and because you're not in this 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:32.240 like hurry like there, it removes that schedule from the 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:36.880 day and it creates like almost more of a relaxing, 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:41.760 laid back, approachable atmosphere. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:47.200 That's absolutely true. I mean, it's it takes the pressure 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:51.600 off in people who come there who maybe haven't done 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.120 it before. You know, there's a little bit of anxiety 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.120 on the first he of like I've got to get out, 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.560 you know, And Matt's really good at kind of talking 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:01.600 off the ledge a little bit and saying, Okay, look, 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:03.960 you're going to be here till nine o'clock tonight in summertime, 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:08.720 like it's going to be okay. And you know, the fun, 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.800 really fun thing is is about the all day passes. 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.560 It like gives a lot of power to the consumer. 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:18.840 We're not dictating how they're going to enjoy the golf course. 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.920 They decide that on their own. And and you know, 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:25.200 we don't have many rules, you know. Basically all we 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.400 ask is that you be respectful of the golf course 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.040 and the people around you and and and keep up, 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.440 you know, in other words, play play fast, don't don't 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.320 don't bog the place down. And so if you can 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:39.520 do that playing with five or six people, great, you know. 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:41.360 And and then the other thing too, is is that 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.840 it creates a cool atmosphere where you know, somebody from 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:49.200 Chicago may you know, be going around and they end 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.800 up pairing up with some guys from Florida, and and 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.480 you know, they become friends and have a have a 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.280 unique experience in that way. And then towards the end 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:02.520 of the day. Is the attrition inevitably, you know, opens 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.600 up more space on the golf course. People can kind 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.520 of go, you know, maybe you play number one backwards 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.679 to number nine, or do some of the cross country 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.280 stuff too. So there's there's a lot of flexibility and 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.600 in it's kind of a choose your own adventure in 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.680 a lot of ways, where people just they're the ones 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.520 in control and they they they can do what they please. 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:30.560 I got to ask your your life's changed significantly, and 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.439 you know, you you've effectively gone from you know, a 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.639 designer of a nine hole golf course who was really 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:43.720 waiting around for their next break, you and Tad to 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.520 now you're a very I would say, you're a very 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:51.040 busy golf architect. You have I think like that. I 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:55.320 know of three plus jobs that are that are in 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.800 some sort of process, probably a lot more coming down 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:03.760 the pipe. And how how's that transition been and would 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.520 have been? You know, the you know, the big things 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:07.640 that you've had to change. 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:14.520 It's it's it's been a very welcome transition for starters. 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.280 You know, it's it's it's always been. It's you know 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:22.199 what we work so hard for and. 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.360 There's like no middle ground. It seems like. 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.680 There's no middle ground. And but it's funny. I mean, 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.160 you know, we all have bad days and and you 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.360 have great days, or maybe you get a little down 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.040 about something and I often say to like Rob, what 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:37.920 the hell? You know what, you don't have anything to 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.920 complain about. I mean, you're doing what you want, doing 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:46.000 great projects with great clients, you know. So sometimes I 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:47.600 have to have a little bit of a reality check 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.199 because you know, things can get stressful or busy. But 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:58.919 you know, uh, the growth of King Collins is in 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.520 how we handle that is something that Tad and I 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.800 talk a lot about. We spend a lot of time 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.840 talking about that and how we you know, add people 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.680 on and you know, we've been fortunate to bring bring 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.359 some young guys on who are a huge help on site. 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.399 I mean as a design build firm, you know, we 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.040 don't like working on more than two projects at a time, 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.719 and you know that that creates a lot of you know, 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.720 scheduling complexities for me and Tad. I mean sometimes I'll 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:29.280 need to be here and he'll need to be there, 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.119 and then there's you know, back of office helps stuff 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.679 that we have people to help us with that. I mean, 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.240 I know, you just hired one of our old interns, Matt, 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.359 who's doing a great job for you. And you know, 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.000 we have somebody working for us named Sharon who does 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:49.639 a lot of things that you know, we used to 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:51.560 have to do that we don't really have time for now. 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.240 So but like figuring all that out is we're figuring 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.239 out on the fly, you know, and that's it's not 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:00.760 always easy, and there's fits and star with it. But 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:02.880 I think we're I think we're figuring it out. 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.120 What has been you know, if you can give us 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.800 share some light, what's been the toughest challenge about this, 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.080 about the growth? I mean I can relate. 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:18.840 I yeah, I mean, well it's funny. I mean, you know, uh, 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.480 you know, I remember vividly when when Patrick told me 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:25.920 about you coming out there to Sweetens in twenty fifteen. 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:27.959 You know, this guy's driving down from Knoxville to come 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:31.960 see it, and lives changed in both of our lives 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.159 in that time. And I like to every time I 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.080 see you, I make a comment about you being the 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.000 busiest busiest man in show business. I mean, you really, 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:44.679 it's insane how busy you are. But I think that, 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:53.840 like the hardest thing has just been striking kind of 0:20:53.880 --> 0:21:00.440 a work life balance at times. You know, when things 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.360 are really busy on a couple of projects, it can 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:08.520 it can you know, it can get stressful, and you know, 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:14.800 you just got to that. That's where us hiring more 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:19.080 people has been a huge help and good people. You know, 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.440 it's funny. There's a guy working for us right now, 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.320 Bruce Shober, young guy who's just crushing it as one 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:28.720 of our project managers, and it's he was working out 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.480 at Landman at one point in time at Landman for 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:36.280 weeks on end. His job was to pull sticks out 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.040 of the sand that we were getting from the river 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:42.280 just so it wouldn't go in the greens. I mean, 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:47.240 talk about you know, not very fun. But he didn't complain. 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:52.000 He great attitude and now he's running projects and you know, 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:54.199 being able to have people like Bruce step up and 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.240 help is huge. And we've got a nice stable of 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.320 guys we really like to work with on shapers of 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.080 things and that's been great too. So we just we 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.560 just need to keep building and keep trunning ourselves with 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:08.960 good people planning week behind. 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.440 Now for a quick word from our sponsor today's episode 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.840 is brought to you by Club TFE. We are cooking 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:26.600 in Club TFI. That is the Fridagg membership. So for 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:30.280 one hundred and twenty dollars a year, the Fridagg membership 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:33.280 gets you a lot we get. We've been putting out 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:36.800 daily content during the week, so Monday through Friday, there 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:40.879 are new posts up every day on the Club tf blog. 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:46.320 We also have a weekly course profile, so these are 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.800 these have been really popular so far. We dive deep 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:54.280 into a singular course and you know, every week we 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.159 add a new one with an egg rating, as well 0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:01.680 as a monthly hangout that is happening soon be basically 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:06.520 like a live Q and a podcast and that will 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:11.680 be next week. And then we also do early event access, 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:14.480 so events are starting to open up. We just had 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.160 our first batch of events open up. And then there's 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.639 also some other little things like ten percent off the 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:24.080 pro shop and as well as a member gift so 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:27.199 if you haven't yet, if you're interested, if you want 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:30.359 more stuff from us. I'm really really proud of what 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:33.560 our team's been putting out and I think we are 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.199 just going to keep improving this. We hope we have 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:40.480 a lot of ideas and plans to continue to evolve this, 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:43.120 but right now I think it's a really good product 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.800 for one hundred and twenty bucks a year. So if 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:51.359 you're interested, join at Thefrida egg dot com slash membership 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:54.800 and thank you to everybody that has joined in for 0:23:54.840 --> 0:24:04.320 the support. And now back to Rob Collins. What are 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:09.960 some things that you hated letting go that now you 0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:12.520 look back on and laugh, like, thank God, it's out 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:14.760 of my life. 0:24:16.200 --> 0:24:20.879 I mean, well, a lot of this stuff is like 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:27.240 just awful, like paper pushing stuff, Like I didn't hate 0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:29.639 to let that go. But on the other side, I'm like, 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:32.359 thank God that I'm not doing that stuff anymore. Like 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:34.399 I am so bad. Tad and I laugh. I mean 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:37.719 we are the two worst administrative people on Earth. I mean, 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:40.480 if I worked in an office, I would be fired 0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:45.000 within four hours. You know, I can't. I can't stand 0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:47.919 that kind of stuff. And you know, having people to 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:50.720 help with that has been has been huge. But I 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:52.520 didn't I didn't shed a tear when I got to 0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:53.920 say goodbye to some of that either. 0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:58.000 So yeah, I mean that's like the stuff I think 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.479 about that all the time is like it's it's seems 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:03.919 sometimes like stuff seems like it's so hard, like I 0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:06.680 could never get rid of this, and then you finally 0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:09.159 get rid of it, and you're like, why did it 0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:14.120 take me three years to get rid of this stuff? 0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:18.280 It's it's just you know, is there anything in the 0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:21.120 creative process I imagine? I mean you talk about work 0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:24.000 life balance. I go through a lot of the same stuff. 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:26.919 You know, both of our jobs require us to be 0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:30.840 away from home a decent amount, which obviously then you know, 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:36.280 puts a strain on that relationship. It do you find yourself? 0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:38.920 Have you, as you guys scale and I think this 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:44.560 is obviously a tricky thing in the design build world, 0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:48.760 Like everything in your business pushes you to want to 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:54.040 scale up, but the ethos of your business is craftsmanship, 0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:59.840 which is like the complete opposite of scaling up. That's right, 0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:04.040 So you know, have there have you started to let 0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:07.520 go a little bit of some of the creative processes 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:12.359 in certain aspects, And you know you talk about bringing 0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:15.399 more people on, obviously you want them to grow as well. 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:19.520 Right, Yeah, you know, Tad and I don't spend as 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:23.400 much time on machines as we used to, just simply 0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:28.640 because of time commitments. But having really talented people who 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:32.200 can come in and help with that and do those 0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:37.800 things has been tremendously helpful. But you know, Tad and 0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:41.760 I have talked about that, and when we have accepted 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:46.120 the fact that we do in fact have a ceiling, too, 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:50.760 are the scale. I mean, it can't grow outside this room, 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:55.480 you know, it's it's only going to get so big 0:26:55.560 --> 0:26:59.399 simply because we don't want to do five projects at once. 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:06.960 I mean, it's as Tad and I say, we would 0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:12.440 rather end our career doing twenty twenty five projects, thirty 0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:15.600 whatever that number is, I don't know, and be really 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:18.399 really proud of every one of them, than to do, 0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:22.840 let's call it fifty projects and go. I wish we 0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:26.800 had another shot at that one, you know. You know, 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:33.200 people's time and resources are so valuable, you know, from 0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:35.840 the client end and also from the amount of effort 0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:39.600 and time that people put into it that it's just 0:27:39.800 --> 0:27:45.840 it's worth giving it everything you got. And I firmly 0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:48.680 believe that we're going to be better off in every respect, 0:27:48.680 --> 0:27:54.600 and Tad does too by following that more simplified approach. 0:27:55.480 --> 0:27:58.000 I mean, that's what God is here. We don't need 0:27:58.040 --> 0:28:00.680 to get crazy. We don't need to We don't need 0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:04.160 to change the model too much. We just need help. 0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:08.200 That's well, I think that's a pinch across the industry, 0:28:08.280 --> 0:28:11.000 right with so much construction going on, there's you know, 0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:15.160 the whole industry contracted, and you know, and now there's 0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:18.280 this you know, surplus of work and you know there 0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:20.080 aren't you know staff. 0:28:20.280 --> 0:28:23.760 That's a huge, huge issue, absolutely huge issue. I mean 0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:26.359 it's funny. We had, as you very well know, we 0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:30.000 had fortunate to have Jeff Bradley help us out on 0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:35.840 the bunkers at Landman and that was because you know, 0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:39.479 in twenty twenty, you know, it was middle of COVID 0:28:39.520 --> 0:28:44.200 and Bill and Ben as we all did had you know, 0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:47.600 some things that kind of got paused and Jeff needed 0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:50.560 a place to go and thank god we could use it. 0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:54.000 And you know, it is hard to find those people, 0:28:54.000 --> 0:28:57.400 and Tad and I try to work really hard to 0:28:57.520 --> 0:29:02.720 cultivate a really fun team atmosphere to to you know, 0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:05.240 have guys who want to work with us and want 0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:07.680 to be want to be loyal to us and not 0:29:07.800 --> 0:29:10.840 bounce around. You know, we give a lot of a 0:29:10.840 --> 0:29:13.600 lot of leeway to guys, give them a lot of 0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:18.560 freedom and we're both easy going and and fun to 0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:22.920 work for. And I think that you know, a lot 0:29:22.920 --> 0:29:26.240 of times on golf construction projects, you know, maybe the architect, 0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:30.240 particularly if it's a contractor situation, it's it's they're constricting 0:29:30.280 --> 0:29:33.120 people down, and we like to give freedom. I mean, 0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:35.160 that's how you get that's how you get the best 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:41.240 product is by having people inject their own uh being 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:43.560 and creative process into it. And then you, you know, 0:29:43.600 --> 0:29:45.040 you react to that. I mean a lot of times 0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:47.320 you have very specific ideas of what you want, but 0:29:47.360 --> 0:29:49.760 you but you still, you know, you give them, give 0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:51.840 them a lot of rope and let them run and 0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:54.080 see what they do. And and then and then you know, 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:55.920 it's just dirt. You can always change it if you 0:29:55.960 --> 0:29:59.640 need to. But that that, I think that's how all 0:29:59.720 --> 0:30:02.440 the best courses, you know, since sand Hills have gotten 0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:06.000 built by doing stuff like that. So that's kind of 0:30:06.000 --> 0:30:06.800 what we try to do. 0:30:06.840 --> 0:30:10.160 And do you have a specific example of that, maybe 0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:14.080 a feature at Landman where you let somebody go and 0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:17.560 it turned out better than what you had maybe planned 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:20.120 or different, may not better, but you wouldn't know, but 0:30:20.360 --> 0:30:22.320 different than what you had planned, and you ended up 0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:23.760 really liking the final product. 0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:28.080 Well, you know, a great example right off the top 0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:32.280 that comes to mind is the creek baranka feature on 0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:37.640 number three, which people have loved. And that was actually 0:30:37.720 --> 0:30:43.000 Jimmy Craig's idea. We we you know, the bunker placement 0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:46.680 on that hole was, and we knew where the bunkers 0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:48.280 wanted to go, and how the hole wanted to go, 0:30:48.360 --> 0:30:50.560 and how the green was going to sit sit down 0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:54.560 on the ground and all that, and Jimmy suggested that, 0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:57.520 and it was it was a great idea, and we 0:30:57.680 --> 0:31:00.160 ran with it. And it was funny because as we 0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:02.760 started going with it, we said, well, let's at this 0:31:02.760 --> 0:31:06.200 point in time, we had Trevor and and another guy 0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:10.680 named Lucas helping us, and and and and John Ellsworth too, 0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:13.680 and and we're like, well, let's all let's connect these things. 0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:18.400 Create one on four that's coming down and and and 0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:22.360 then Lucas actually suggested, why don't we, you know, connect 0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:24.760 him up rather than having the one that's on four 0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:27.760 because Forrest, as you remember, Forrest higher than three and 0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:31.560 all the water comes down through that channel. And he said, well, 0:31:31.600 --> 0:31:33.880 let's connect him up. And that and that was you 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:37.520 know as well, Yeah, Lucas that that's it, that's that's 0:31:37.560 --> 0:31:41.720 exactly what we should do. And so, you know, we 0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:44.240 want people to be thinking. We want people to be 0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:49.800 light on their feet and throwing out ideas, and you know, 0:31:50.280 --> 0:31:53.560 we'll take ideas from anywhere. You know, it's ultimately our 0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:57.240 decision to filter out the good ones and the ones 0:31:57.240 --> 0:31:59.760 that might not work and and go with it. But 0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:02.520 that's a I think that's a good example, I. 0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:06.400 Would say, and I hope this is not unfair to say, 0:32:07.160 --> 0:32:10.880 and if it is, please correct me. I kind of 0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:15.160 describe you guys as architecture as maximalist. I think you're 0:32:15.200 --> 0:32:21.640 not afraid to push stuff around and create. And obviously 0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:24.320 you're making a name and I think that's part of 0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:26.520 you know, why you're making a name. You're doing things 0:32:26.560 --> 0:32:30.760 differently than a lot of other people are doing them, 0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:34.800 and you're in this era of minimalist architecture. You know, 0:32:36.120 --> 0:32:39.440 do you get pushedback, you know, in from clients and 0:32:39.520 --> 0:32:42.280 different things when you say, hey, we wanna this is 0:32:42.280 --> 0:32:45.320 what we want to do, And obviously I think it. 0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:49.800 You know, you're you're bringing typically different ideas in a 0:32:49.840 --> 0:32:54.200 different perspective to to projects than maybe the other people 0:32:54.240 --> 0:32:54.840 they're talking to. 0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:59.640 I think we I totally agree with you in that 0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:06.280 I think we do bring a different flair and creative 0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:10.560 process than a lot of other firms. I mean, I 0:33:10.600 --> 0:33:13.640 think there's things that we do that are different and unique. 0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:17.200 I mean, I've always said, you know, if somebody asked 0:33:17.240 --> 0:33:21.520 me my opinion of how do you get into golf 0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:24.920 architecture people who are interested in it, what do you recommend? 0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:28.200 Et cetera, et cetera. And one of my key things 0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:31.200 I always say to people is, you know, find your 0:33:31.200 --> 0:33:34.320 own voice. You know, find find your own vision. Because 0:33:35.920 --> 0:33:39.000 I've got news for you. You are not Bill Krer, 0:33:39.960 --> 0:33:46.600 and you're gonna waste your life trying to chase that ghost. 0:33:47.760 --> 0:33:53.880 Because if you're simply I love Bill and I love 0:33:53.920 --> 0:33:57.280 everything they do. I mean that is the highest praise. 0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:01.440 You know, you can't to find your own own vision, 0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:05.880 your your your own voice. Otherwise if you try to 0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:10.120 be someone else, you can't be. You can't out build 0:34:10.120 --> 0:34:13.399 core Bill Core. In other words, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, 0:34:13.600 --> 0:34:18.200 So we have tried to find our own vision, in 0:34:18.239 --> 0:34:21.120 our own voice. I think that's something that you're speaking 0:34:21.160 --> 0:34:25.280 to and I think that's one of our great strengths. However, 0:34:27.160 --> 0:34:31.640 I would push back a little bit on the maximalist thing, 0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:33.799 which may be semantic. 0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:38.200 It's hard one, there's only two, there's only two top two, 0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:39.480 there's no middle ground. 0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:44.319 Well, but I think the term the term maximalist to me, 0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:50.239 and it could completely could be a semantic difference in 0:34:50.600 --> 0:34:56.640 how we perceive maximal The word maximalism, The word maximalist 0:34:56.760 --> 0:35:04.879 to me implies a little bit of gratuitousness to it. 0:35:06.080 --> 0:35:09.279 I don't know if that's if you have that in 0:35:09.320 --> 0:35:13.840 your mind, but to me, that word has an implication 0:35:13.920 --> 0:35:21.560 of gratuitousness or maybe artificiality. So I would say that 0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:29.480 we are not maximalists in that sense. Like, for instance, Landman. 0:35:30.000 --> 0:35:37.360 Landman was a completely ungolfable terrain in its natural state. 0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:42.560 Looking at it from you know, an overall view, just 0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:45.200 standing on the first tee before a teaspoon of dirt 0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:48.680 was pushed, it looked amazing. But then when you start 0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:50.360 walking on it and you're walking up a four to 0:35:50.440 --> 0:35:53.360 one slope to the number one green and your heart's 0:35:53.400 --> 0:35:55.680 pounding out of your chest, you know you can't play 0:35:55.719 --> 0:36:01.480 golf on that. So we had to do things that 0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:08.160 made it golfable in you know, I would say that, 0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:12.239 you know, the overall goal with Landman was to not 0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:16.640 move gratuitous amounts of dirt for the just for the 0:36:16.680 --> 0:36:18.319 sake of doing it, But it was to move the 0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:22.719 right amount to make it both playable, strategic, and have 0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:25.480 all the shot making characteristics that we wanted. You know, 0:36:25.719 --> 0:36:28.120 we wanted to move not too much, not too low. 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:32.080 We wanted to move the right amount. And also, you know, 0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:36.160 our first project, Sweden's Cove, was a seventy two acre 0:36:36.360 --> 0:36:41.000 dead flat floodplain that did not drain, so we had 0:36:41.040 --> 0:36:45.080 to move a lot of dirt there. Landman, We've had, 0:36:45.520 --> 0:36:51.720 you know, just by the nature of the site. 0:36:49.920 --> 0:36:53.000 You know, And I agree, like the one of the 0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:56.400 things about you know, being a younger architect and not 0:36:56.520 --> 0:36:59.120 having huge body of work is like, we haven't seen 0:36:59.200 --> 0:37:02.399 you have a site in great natural sand dunes. 0:37:02.600 --> 0:37:05.040 Now, That's that's what I'm That's what I'm getting around to, 0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:09.759 is that you know, we don't necessarily look at a 0:37:09.840 --> 0:37:12.640 site and say, oh, I would like to knock this 0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:15.680 hill down and just because we can. I mean, that's 0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:20.560 not at all our mindset. You know, we always talk 0:37:20.640 --> 0:37:26.919 about every single project. It's our job to figure out 0:37:26.960 --> 0:37:31.359 what the question is that this project is asking. Once 0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:34.240 you identify that, then you figure out how to answer 0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:37.239 that question and what the how you push forward from 0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:41.160 there And at Landman, in order to build an extraordinary 0:37:41.160 --> 0:37:45.680 golf course, it required moving a lot of dirt. I 0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:51.440 compare Landman two really to the original Lido in a 0:37:51.440 --> 0:37:56.960 lot of ways, because the original Lido moved roughly two 0:37:56.960 --> 0:38:02.600 million cubic yards by creating golf on a beautiful but 0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:08.280 otherwise ungolfable terrain. Right that site was not golfable prior 0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:13.560 to them doing that. Yeah, okay, and Landman like the 0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:18.920 Lido is a just flat out, unabashed tribute to a 0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:23.719 certain type of golf. It's it's audacious. It's just an 0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:29.759 unapologetically tribute to a certain type of golf. And it 0:38:29.880 --> 0:38:34.120 was manufactured on a great site. But prior to construction 0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:37.200 was was ungoffable. So that was the question, and that 0:38:37.200 --> 0:38:39.759 that's that was the approach we took through Landman. Now 0:38:40.400 --> 0:38:46.440 we have a project in Nashville that is it's this 0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:53.720 unbelievable rolling terrain and it's much more of a I mean, okay, 0:38:53.920 --> 0:38:58.279 a minimalist job. I mean there's stuff where you know, 0:38:58.320 --> 0:39:03.080 there's green settings next to little creaks like the project 0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:08.760 we were talking about earlier, we're just you hardly move anything. 0:39:09.520 --> 0:39:14.200 So and then you know, we have another project which 0:39:15.200 --> 0:39:18.920 I hope can get announced this year. It's truly on 0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:21.320 one of the best sites in the world, on a 0:39:21.400 --> 0:39:24.439 seaside site with sand dunes and all that. I mean, 0:39:24.880 --> 0:39:29.400 that's just a teaspoonful here and there, you know, so 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:34.160 you have to you have to roll with the punches. 0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:37.759 I mean, every every site is going to have a 0:39:37.800 --> 0:39:45.160 different set of demands to deliver the best possible product 0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:48.200 to the client into the consumer. And I think that 0:39:48.719 --> 0:39:52.960 you know, Tad and I do have a certain fearlessness 0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:56.200 to us in a flare for the dramatic, and a 0:39:56.200 --> 0:39:59.520 willingness to do some things maybe that other people wouldn't 0:39:59.560 --> 0:40:04.360 want to do. And I think that that that helps 0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:07.640 us in a lot of ways when we when we 0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:11.480 we see opportunity where maybe others would see a roadblock. 0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:13.759 And I think that's one of our strengths. 0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:17.799 I've something that I've always thought about, not always, but 0:40:18.040 --> 0:40:20.880 you know, recent years have dominated my brain and I 0:40:21.280 --> 0:40:25.040 always think about this and from your perspective as as builders, 0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:29.520 as guys that create stuff is it harder and does 0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:35.359 it require more confidence maybe to build a wild green 0:40:36.640 --> 0:40:41.319 or something that's very understated and know that it's got 0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:42.200 enough going on. 0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:51.640 I think you could argue that both take equal amount 0:40:51.640 --> 0:40:59.439 of confidence. There's some really wild grains at Landman, there's 0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:05.320 a few, but I think that like the oxygen gets 0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:09.960 taken out of the room by number seven, number four, 0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:15.680 number fifteen, and number seventeen because they're so audacious. That's like, 0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:23.280 you know, you forget about you know number number eight, 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:30.320 you know, nine, eleven, twelve, thirteen, you know, then fourteen 0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:32.560 you come to this ver Dan with this gigantic kicker 0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:36.200 which kind of takes your breath away. So you know 0:41:36.239 --> 0:41:41.600 that you have to be confident in your application of 0:41:42.080 --> 0:41:45.480 when when to get a little wild, but also you 0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:48.920 got to know when to pull it back too. And 0:41:49.200 --> 0:41:53.279 one thing that I absolutely am very cognizant of and 0:41:53.320 --> 0:41:56.080 so is Tad is you know, I don't want to 0:41:56.120 --> 0:41:59.399 be nor do do Tad. And I want to be 0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:02.000 put in a box of like, oh those are the 0:42:02.040 --> 0:42:04.239 guys who just they do all the crazy stuff they 0:42:04.280 --> 0:42:07.640 do the wild greens. I mean yeah, I mean sometimes 0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:11.160 but sometimes not. And you know, I want each of 0:42:11.160 --> 0:42:15.640 our projects to be kind of like a faberge egg 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:17.600 for the lack of a better term, where it's just 0:42:17.840 --> 0:42:23.040 it's its own little special thing, and it's each one's different, 0:42:23.560 --> 0:42:26.440 you know, each one is something that we're immensely proud of. 0:42:26.960 --> 0:42:30.400 But land Man is not like Red Feather is not 0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:35.280 like others. I mean, there's there's greens at Red Feather. 0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:38.600 There's some there's some bold ones, but there's some really 0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:44.600 really just chill kind of lay of the land stuff. 0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:46.960 I mean, I can't wait for people to see Red Feather. 0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:50.680 I think it has an awesome mix of greens and 0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:54.919 bunkering and interest. I've never really seen anything like it, 0:42:55.400 --> 0:42:58.880 and that's an Red Feather is an example of where, 0:42:59.480 --> 0:43:01.040 you know, to get it back to some of the 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:05.200 earlier comments like that's where you know, I think Tad 0:43:05.239 --> 0:43:08.879 and I saw an opportunity where maybe others would would 0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:11.560 have gotten a little scared away. In fact, I was 0:43:11.560 --> 0:43:13.799 talking to Tad today, I mean, we almost didn't get 0:43:13.800 --> 0:43:18.800 that project permitted because even the engineers just they couldn't 0:43:18.920 --> 0:43:21.080 wrap their head around how we were going to make 0:43:21.120 --> 0:43:23.400 this thing work. And I remember Tad talking to the 0:43:23.400 --> 0:43:26.200 guy and finally the engineer was like, oh, yeah, that 0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:30.520 will work. And you know, we have to move one 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:34.680 point three million have to like we will get in 0:43:34.840 --> 0:43:38.319 the project will get you know, wouldn't work if we 0:43:38.400 --> 0:43:40.960 don't move one point three million cubic yards of dirt 0:43:41.280 --> 0:43:44.840 beneath a certain contour to hold a certain volume of 0:43:44.880 --> 0:43:47.359 water during a five hundred year storm. We have to 0:43:47.360 --> 0:43:49.480 do that, by the law. We have to do that. 0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:53.239 And it's taken a lot of creativity and a lot 0:43:53.280 --> 0:43:58.759 of vision and Tad's expertise and just incredible ability to 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:02.920 understand big earth works. You know, in the end product 0:44:02.920 --> 0:44:06.360 there is going to be extraordinary and it's it's it's 0:44:06.920 --> 0:44:09.239 it's different than land Mane. It's gonna be different than 0:44:09.239 --> 0:44:11.399 the one in Nashville, but it's gonna be its own 0:44:11.440 --> 0:44:12.080 special thing. 0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:16.120 Well, I think this is like something with golf architecture. Right, 0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:19.759 we're in this in this period of this dominated by minimalism. 0:44:20.000 --> 0:44:20.160 Right. 0:44:20.360 --> 0:44:25.680 This is obviously with like Bill Bill Corr and Tom Doak, 0:44:25.840 --> 0:44:28.840 and you know they've ushered in. They those guys obviously 0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:31.759 they moved dirt on projects. It's like, you know, not 0:44:31.880 --> 0:44:34.279 every project's just like I found this green here and 0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:37.640 I mowed it out right, they moved earth. But the era, 0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:41.000 this really the last twenty years, has been dominated by 0:44:41.000 --> 0:44:44.960 a singular trend. And I think what what's happened is 0:44:45.000 --> 0:44:49.160 it's kind of created. Like almost everything in the world 0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:51.560 seems to now is like this is good and this 0:44:51.680 --> 0:44:54.480 is bad. I'm on this side. I'm on this side. 0:44:54.800 --> 0:44:58.000 And the reality is if if golf architecture is there 0:44:58.000 --> 0:45:01.160 in art form, there is a lot of room for 0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:05.120 different projects. And from what I understand about the Red 0:45:05.160 --> 0:45:08.480 Feather site was like, you know, it's an area that's 0:45:08.520 --> 0:45:12.280 extremely prone to flooding, and it was a very flat 0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:15.319 piece of property. So if you put golf there, it 0:45:15.480 --> 0:45:19.120 just you have to have the necessary features and it takes, 0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:22.680 you know, the skill set to go wander around a 0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:26.919 sand dune site and find eighteen holes is a lot 0:45:26.960 --> 0:45:31.160 different than taking a flat, flood ridden area and creating 0:45:31.320 --> 0:45:37.160 eighteen holes, and both deserve some like a real study 0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:39.600 of how it's done, and the skill sets are different, 0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:42.920 Like it's not a matter of narrowing down you know 0:45:43.160 --> 0:45:47.279 what eighteen holes are best, like obviously at sandhills, like 0:45:47.320 --> 0:45:49.640 what of the one hundred and six the one hundred 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:52.520 and thirty two holes, are the best eighteen right, it 0:45:52.640 --> 0:45:57.120 is how do we make a functional golf course from nothing? 0:45:57.200 --> 0:46:00.680 And like, I think that is it's an interesting thing 0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:04.680 because it's really it's almost you could make an argument 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:09.160 a more creative process because you're having to imagine something 0:46:09.200 --> 0:46:11.760 that doesn't exist in its current state. 0:46:12.960 --> 0:46:15.839 I could not agree more. I mean, I think that, 0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:18.360 I mean, I just I'll go back to our guys, 0:46:18.360 --> 0:46:22.560 but I mean, I'm so immensely proud at Landman and 0:46:22.680 --> 0:46:28.080 Red Feather of what they did, you know, to just 0:46:28.480 --> 0:46:31.759 pull these features out of the earth through a lot 0:46:31.760 --> 0:46:37.520 of hard work, Like Joe Hancock was out at Redfeather 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:40.560 and Mark Berger and John Ellsworth and these guys. I mean, 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:45.200 we have to create these channels in places for the 0:46:45.239 --> 0:46:48.000 water to go below a thirty two to twenty nine contour. 0:46:48.560 --> 0:46:52.280 And when we first started that project, we didn't really 0:46:52.400 --> 0:46:57.040 have a real solid idea of exactly what the look 0:46:57.080 --> 0:47:00.239 and feel was going to be. We just knew kind 0:47:00.280 --> 0:47:02.000 of had to get this start out and what you know, 0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:03.920 we didn't know exactly what it was going to be, 0:47:03.960 --> 0:47:07.080 but we had the confidence that we as the dirt 0:47:07.120 --> 0:47:09.440 came out, we could make it work. And we were 0:47:09.520 --> 0:47:14.080 driving out east of town in Lubbock, there's these just 0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:18.319 amazing landforms with these dry creek beds coming through them, 0:47:18.360 --> 0:47:22.200 and these flat top landforms look like maces. I call 0:47:22.239 --> 0:47:25.440 them maces. It's like some of the scenes in No 0:47:25.520 --> 0:47:28.239 Country for Old Men of that just very start, kind 0:47:28.239 --> 0:47:32.480 of very rugged landscape. And we latched onto that look 0:47:32.719 --> 0:47:35.400 and so let's run with that, and the guys created 0:47:36.040 --> 0:47:39.560 these just amazing features. I mean, it looks like the 0:47:39.560 --> 0:47:42.240 golf course looks like it was just kind of carved 0:47:42.280 --> 0:47:46.640 out of this rugged West Texas landscape. And the goal 0:47:46.920 --> 0:47:52.280 was to like move boatloads of dirt to satisfy the 0:47:52.320 --> 0:47:57.960 permitting requirements, but then sit the golf course down on 0:47:58.160 --> 0:48:01.160 top of that in a minute, old fashioned almost like 0:48:01.200 --> 0:48:03.960 we didn't. Does that make sense. I mean, it's like 0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:05.360 you move the dirt and then you just set the 0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:09.000 golf course into it, almost as in a minimalist sense. 0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:13.840 So the golf course is very ground hugging, very low profile, 0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:16.000 very down on the ground, lots of greens where it 0:48:16.120 --> 0:48:19.839 just runs right into the fairway. And you know, that's 0:48:19.880 --> 0:48:23.560 been a really a fun thing. And in at land Man, 0:48:23.640 --> 0:48:26.359 I mean Tad and I and our team I think 0:48:27.080 --> 0:48:35.640 should be very proud of seeing golf holes where you know, 0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:40.279 there were slopes and things going on that prior to 0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:44.120 construction weren't there, and how they were able to tie 0:48:44.120 --> 0:48:46.160 back into the natural land and make it look like 0:48:46.200 --> 0:48:49.279 it was there the whole time it is. That's a 0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:51.239 lot of skill and a lot of creativity by a 0:48:51.280 --> 0:48:54.120 lot of very talented people who made that happen. And 0:48:54.560 --> 0:48:57.399 I couldn't be happier with the way those things turned out. 0:48:58.320 --> 0:49:03.040 What are concepts golf and design that you haven't been 0:49:03.040 --> 0:49:05.120 able to do that you'd like to do? 0:49:06.040 --> 0:49:15.800 Well, that's an interesting question. I'll tell you about one. 0:49:15.480 --> 0:49:22.400 We submitted a plan to Pinehurst in October of twenty 0:49:22.440 --> 0:49:29.080 twenty one, and I mean, honestly, I can't believe I'm 0:49:29.120 --> 0:49:32.240 even saying this. I mean, there's literally only a handful 0:49:32.239 --> 0:49:34.719 of people that know this, but what the hell I mean? 0:49:36.680 --> 0:49:40.640 I work To have a chance to work at Pinehurst 0:49:40.680 --> 0:49:47.279 would be ultimate dream come true for me. You know, 0:49:47.360 --> 0:49:51.680 my whole a lot of the ways I think about 0:49:51.719 --> 0:49:55.680 golf architecture came out of Pinehurst Number two and seeing 0:49:55.719 --> 0:49:59.200 that with my dad in two thousand and seven and 0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:03.600 my brother on his seventy fifth birthday trip, and obviously 0:50:03.600 --> 0:50:06.719 that was prior to the renovation, but even then, you know, 0:50:06.800 --> 0:50:09.400 just the greens and the putting, you know, the short 0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:13.840 grass and the contour. It just was really impacted the 0:50:13.880 --> 0:50:16.480 way I thought about things. And to have a chance 0:50:16.600 --> 0:50:21.879 to throw some ideas out there at the pit has 0:50:21.960 --> 0:50:26.319 been been a thrill and I hope that I hope 0:50:26.360 --> 0:50:28.840 that we can do it. We came up with a 0:50:30.040 --> 0:50:36.719 concept that I've never seen anywhere, that would be entirely 0:50:36.880 --> 0:50:42.200 unique to the world of golf, that we feel would 0:50:42.200 --> 0:50:46.640 be a perfect fit for a place like Pinehurst because 0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:49.400 they have these, you know, some really great kind of 0:50:49.440 --> 0:50:52.919 traditional courses. I mean, you know, I'm sure Tom's course 0:50:52.920 --> 0:50:55.279 will will be a great addition, and that Bill and 0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:58.520 Ben do theirs, I hope they do. That'll be another 0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:02.920 great eighteen hole golf course. But our concept was to 0:51:03.000 --> 0:51:07.040 take one hundred and forty acres and build five golf 0:51:07.080 --> 0:51:11.000 courses on one hundred and forty acres where you could 0:51:11.400 --> 0:51:18.000 play a new course each day. And I worked with 0:51:18.080 --> 0:51:22.920 Joe McDonald to do all these amazing renderings and flyovers 0:51:22.960 --> 0:51:27.160 and all this stuff. So one day you're playing this 0:51:27.200 --> 0:51:31.600 way on the purple routing and you know there's greens everywhere. 0:51:31.760 --> 0:51:35.440 Sometimes the greens only play for the red routing, and 0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:37.319 sometimes you only play for the purple routing and only 0:51:37.320 --> 0:51:39.920 play for the green routing. And but sometimes you know 0:51:39.960 --> 0:51:43.080 there's double greens that you you know, you might use 0:51:44.000 --> 0:51:46.719 one side of the surface or another at any rate. 0:51:46.800 --> 0:51:49.239 I mean it was you know, I would like for 0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:54.000 us to have an opportunity to basically have an ode 0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:59.359 to Pinehurst number two that is like five Pinehurst number 0:51:59.360 --> 0:52:03.000 two's on a different day with just different stuff going 0:52:03.040 --> 0:52:04.040 on all over the place. 0:52:04.320 --> 0:52:10.359 So there'd be ninety holes on one hundred and forty acres. 0:52:10.600 --> 0:52:13.200 There'd be not great at math. Yeah, that sounds right. 0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:15.480 The only reason I know that is because of the 0:52:15.480 --> 0:52:18.240 Bob Hope used to be five rounds and I could, 0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:22.359 I could do that quick. But then there'd be you know, 0:52:22.480 --> 0:52:25.840 there'd be some there'd be way more than eighteen greens, 0:52:27.080 --> 0:52:30.840 you know, and different series of routings. But there wouldn't 0:52:30.840 --> 0:52:32.600 be ninety greens obviously. 0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:38.000 No, no, exactly no, So one day, so one just 0:52:38.120 --> 0:52:39.120 like go ahead. 0:52:39.239 --> 0:52:43.400 One thing that I obviously you'd have increased maintenance costs 0:52:43.440 --> 0:52:46.919 from the additional greens. But one thing that pops into 0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:50.920 my mind is the idea of how you could do 0:52:51.000 --> 0:52:56.520 maintenance work on areas that weren't being used on the 0:52:56.600 --> 0:53:00.840 day's routing and preparation for the next day. Yeah, I 0:53:00.840 --> 0:53:03.800 mean there's like a lot of utility in that sense. 0:53:03.880 --> 0:53:08.360 Like that's just one area facet of this that jumps 0:53:08.360 --> 0:53:13.080 to mind. It's a very interesting idea, and you know, 0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:16.920 like the other question I'd have is like, is this 0:53:18.360 --> 0:53:22.960 is this a better idea for a resort where somebody's 0:53:23.000 --> 0:53:26.160 coming to play one time? Obviously they could play the 0:53:26.239 --> 0:53:29.360 same course five days in a row and be different 0:53:29.400 --> 0:53:33.240 every time. Or is this a path? Is this a path? 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:37.960 Like this type of idea a really intriguing idea for 0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:40.800 private clubs or municipal golf courses. 0:53:42.120 --> 0:53:45.440 Well, I think it could definitely work really well in 0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:51.239 a private club aspect as well. But you know, our 0:53:51.280 --> 0:53:54.799 thought was that it was the absolute perfect thing for 0:53:54.880 --> 0:54:01.320 Pinehurst because they have, you know, a lot of golf courses. 0:54:01.360 --> 0:54:03.200 They've got nine now they're going to have ten golf 0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:08.240 courses where it's a very similar experience and each time, 0:54:08.840 --> 0:54:13.120 and you know, there was a sort of a utilitarian 0:54:13.200 --> 0:54:15.200 aspect to it, and that it only takes up one 0:54:15.239 --> 0:54:17.840 hundred and forty acres, So it's not it's not spread 0:54:17.840 --> 0:54:20.799 over two three hundred acres. It's it's more compact. It's 0:54:20.800 --> 0:54:23.239 you know, the courses are ranged from six thousand to 0:54:23.280 --> 0:54:29.200 sixty five hundred yards. And going back to our original 0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:33.080 conversation of how Sweetens has affected how we think about 0:54:33.120 --> 0:54:37.520 things in the immersive nature of golf. You know, this 0:54:37.640 --> 0:54:42.880 is a very immersive thing in that Let's say you're 0:54:42.920 --> 0:54:47.080 playing this blue course one day and you're looking over 0:54:47.120 --> 0:54:49.439 and you're going, God, I would I would die to get, 0:54:49.480 --> 0:54:51.680 you know, to play that one, and it just it 0:54:51.800 --> 0:54:55.120 just sets this hook. We're all cracked. We're all we're 0:54:55.160 --> 0:54:59.160 all crack addicts basically, you know, you know, you once 0:54:59.200 --> 0:55:02.160 you get see some think cool, you want to experience 0:55:02.200 --> 0:55:04.839 it again. You want to see the next thing. You 0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:07.160 just couldn't get enough of it. It's like, well, I've 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:09.919 got to stay an extra day or And my thought 0:55:10.040 --> 0:55:14.960 was that people would be like it would extend the 0:55:15.080 --> 0:55:18.120 length of their visits because Okay, this year, i can 0:55:18.120 --> 0:55:21.200 play the red and the purple in the yellow, and 0:55:21.239 --> 0:55:23.760 I'm gonna stay an extra two and a half days 0:55:23.760 --> 0:55:26.239 to do that. And then next year I'll come back, 0:55:26.280 --> 0:55:30.680 and and it's like it creates a repeat visit thing 0:55:30.760 --> 0:55:33.399 because Okay, let's say you go to Pinehurst for four 0:55:33.440 --> 0:55:35.279 or five days. I mean, you're definitely gonna play number two, 0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:38.080 You're gonna play number four, you're gonna play number ten, 0:55:38.480 --> 0:55:41.680 play the core Crenchhall. You know. Then it's like, Okay, well, 0:55:41.719 --> 0:55:44.000 I've got to come back next year. My buddy played 0:55:44.000 --> 0:55:46.200 the Purple one on Wednesday and he said it was unbelievable, 0:55:46.200 --> 0:55:49.239 So I gotta play that one. So it creates a 0:55:49.320 --> 0:55:51.920 desire to return. And I think it would be great 0:55:51.960 --> 0:55:58.200 for him, not only just from a golf standpoint, have 0:55:58.280 --> 0:56:00.719 something different than what they have, something that at the 0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:03.719 same wild still while being different, is still rooted in 0:56:03.760 --> 0:56:05.839 the fundamentals of what Pinehurst is. I mean, it needs 0:56:05.880 --> 0:56:08.120 to be a very Pinehursty looking golf course. I mean, 0:56:08.120 --> 0:56:11.480 I'm not we're not reinventing. We're not reinventing the wheel 0:56:11.520 --> 0:56:16.120 on that. But but also from an operational standpoint, it's 0:56:16.280 --> 0:56:20.920 like you're I mean, I don't why wouldn't you, I 0:56:20.960 --> 0:56:25.760 mean you would, And can you imagine how much merch 0:56:25.800 --> 0:56:28.600 they would sell? My god, I mean, you know, five 0:56:28.640 --> 0:56:29.520 different courses. 0:56:30.680 --> 0:56:32.880 I mean I think it's like, you know, one of 0:56:32.920 --> 0:56:35.880 the things that I find frustrated with golf architecture is, 0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:41.120 you know, architect building architecture, you know, painting, sculpting, all 0:56:41.160 --> 0:56:44.279 these different art forms, right, and building architecture and golf 0:56:44.360 --> 0:56:48.040 architecture are kind of to one and the same. One 0:56:48.040 --> 0:56:50.560 of the things that's frustrating if you if you consider 0:56:50.640 --> 0:56:53.200 this in our form, is that, like you know, in 0:56:53.400 --> 0:56:56.080 order for work to get done, it has to be 0:56:56.120 --> 0:57:00.480 commissioned by someone. Like you know, if if I'm a famous, 0:57:00.600 --> 0:57:03.880 if I'm a painter, I can just paint whatever comes 0:57:03.920 --> 0:57:06.280 to mind, right, and then it's out in the world 0:57:06.280 --> 0:57:07.400 and people purchase it. 0:57:07.680 --> 0:57:07.879 Right. 0:57:08.520 --> 0:57:11.200 The thing with golf architecture is like there has to 0:57:11.239 --> 0:57:13.520 be somebody on the other side that said yes, and like, 0:57:13.920 --> 0:57:17.160 you know, this is this is an example of an 0:57:17.200 --> 0:57:20.840 out of the box idea. This is something that hasn't 0:57:20.880 --> 0:57:24.600 been done before. But in order for it to be done, 0:57:24.800 --> 0:57:29.840 someone has to come right the twenty whatever million dollar check, 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:34.360 you know, whatever the cost of this of a project. 0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:36.720 You know, obviously all that change is based off of 0:57:36.920 --> 0:57:39.680 where the land is, where you know, what the soils 0:57:39.720 --> 0:57:42.520 are all that, but let's just say twenty million dollars. 0:57:42.680 --> 0:57:44.600 Someone has to write the check for the twenty million. 0:57:44.680 --> 0:57:47.640 It doesn't just get to get done like a lot 0:57:47.640 --> 0:57:50.320 of other art forms. Like I have this cool idea, 0:57:50.440 --> 0:57:53.080 I'm going to do it, and that's I think, how 0:57:53.200 --> 0:57:56.800 a lot of famous art happens. It's like, oh, I 0:57:56.840 --> 0:57:58.920 want to do this. I'm going to write this song, 0:57:59.800 --> 0:58:02.880 you know, and I'm going to do it in my 0:58:02.960 --> 0:58:05.520 basement and this is and then it becomes famous. Like 0:58:05.600 --> 0:58:08.320 with golf architecture, there has to be the other side 0:58:08.320 --> 0:58:11.560 that accepts it. And you know, this is like it's 0:58:11.600 --> 0:58:15.520 a very I mean, it's an intriguing idea. I think 0:58:15.560 --> 0:58:18.720 like it adds variety, like day to day variety. You 0:58:18.760 --> 0:58:23.440 get different golf courses, right. But then furthermore, it would 0:58:23.480 --> 0:58:27.480 actually make running the golf course the operational side of 0:58:27.520 --> 0:58:31.160 thing things. Once you understood how to set each course 0:58:31.280 --> 0:58:35.080 up right, it would make it easier because you'd always 0:58:35.120 --> 0:58:38.320 be ahead, as opposed to like we need to Hey, 0:58:38.320 --> 0:58:40.520 we have a shotgun tomorrow, we have to get all 0:58:40.560 --> 0:58:43.920 the greens mode in the dark, Like, oh, we can 0:58:44.360 --> 0:58:45.760 do this the night before. 0:58:47.080 --> 0:58:51.280 I couldn't agree more. I mean it operationally, it does 0:58:51.360 --> 0:58:55.040 make a ton of sense. And I just I think 0:58:55.120 --> 0:58:57.920 a lot about what would I like to see if 0:58:57.920 --> 0:59:01.520 I go somewhere. And I love going to Pinehurst, and 0:59:02.360 --> 0:59:04.120 like I said, it's one of my favorite places in 0:59:04.160 --> 0:59:08.320 the world. But you know, there's a lot of stuff 0:59:08.360 --> 0:59:13.600 there that's I think they need something that's a little 0:59:13.680 --> 0:59:15.880 bit more outside the box. I mean, they've had so 0:59:16.000 --> 0:59:19.600 much success with the Cradle and and everything, you know, 0:59:19.680 --> 0:59:21.600 all the things they've done in the last ten years, 0:59:21.640 --> 0:59:25.360 and this just takes a step further in my mind, 0:59:25.400 --> 0:59:29.600 and to get to do something like that would be amazing. 0:59:29.640 --> 0:59:31.640 And again it's on one hundred and forty acres, so 0:59:31.680 --> 0:59:37.280 it's not like we're occupying massive amounts of terrain. These 0:59:37.280 --> 0:59:39.360 are courses that would be able to be played you know, 0:59:39.400 --> 0:59:42.920 pretty quickly, uh you know, thirty or six thousand to 0:59:42.960 --> 0:59:45.520 sixty five hundred yards, which is fun too. I mean 0:59:45.560 --> 0:59:47.480 that's kind of a different thing, you know. 0:59:48.080 --> 0:59:50.880 So where I'd push where i'd push back on Like 0:59:51.080 --> 0:59:53.360 you know, like when this guy announced a lot, I 0:59:53.360 --> 0:59:56.439 think like obviously Will Bardwell was I think championing you guys. 0:59:56.480 --> 1:00:00.320 I wonder if he knew the plan. But I think 1:00:00.400 --> 1:00:02.280 like one of the things that I thought a lot 1:00:02.320 --> 1:00:07.040 about with like golf resorts is you know, Pinehurst is 1:00:07.080 --> 1:00:09.920 in the position of like say, like a Microsoft if 1:00:10.280 --> 1:00:13.240 you think about it in terms of like the golf landscape, 1:00:13.320 --> 1:00:16.920 right you know, in a way, they're in the position 1:00:17.400 --> 1:00:22.400 because of a risk taken in nineteen one hundred by 1:00:22.680 --> 1:00:27.600 Toughs to build destination winter golf in rural North Carolina. 1:00:27.720 --> 1:00:30.040 I mean that was their big risk, right you know, 1:00:30.120 --> 1:00:34.000 like everybody has to take a risk at some point, Right, 1:00:34.280 --> 1:00:39.040 Mike Kaiser hired David McClay kidd in a way at 1:00:39.080 --> 1:00:42.760 that point, making that taking that risk building a golf 1:00:42.760 --> 1:00:46.440 course in remote Oregon on the coastline now means that 1:00:46.520 --> 1:00:49.800 he doesn't really have to take risks because he's you know, 1:00:49.920 --> 1:00:52.480 proven himself. Pinehurst, it goes all the way back to 1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:56.280 nineteen hundred. They have all this history, right in a way, 1:00:57.000 --> 1:00:59.600 they take a risk so long ago, and obviously like 1:00:59.640 --> 1:01:04.000 this on this is also why innovation always tends to 1:01:04.040 --> 1:01:08.080 happen outside of the establishment, right you know, in a way, 1:01:08.200 --> 1:01:10.919 like your all day pass at Sweeten's Cove is an 1:01:10.960 --> 1:01:16.480 innovative form of golf, and it happened outside the like 1:01:16.600 --> 1:01:20.240 outside of like a traditional golf landscape because I think 1:01:20.360 --> 1:01:25.120 almost in a way those resorts think of like, we 1:01:25.240 --> 1:01:28.280 can't screw this up. They're in these like if if something, 1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:32.240 if they try something innovative and it screws up, everybody 1:01:32.280 --> 1:01:36.280 knows that is a cossal failure versus like I build 1:01:36.320 --> 1:01:42.360 this golf course in in wherever and it doesn't work fully, 1:01:42.840 --> 1:01:47.800 nobody knows, right. I just like that's like I would 1:01:47.840 --> 1:01:51.800 think the tip of the opposite side of of like 1:01:52.200 --> 1:01:55.200 doing it at a resort. But you know, like I'm 1:01:55.360 --> 1:01:59.160 super intrigued and from like a a golf architecture moving 1:01:59.200 --> 1:02:03.520 forward stamp point. I think it's like extremely important for 1:02:03.720 --> 1:02:07.120 somebody to be pushing new ideas. And I think there 1:02:07.160 --> 1:02:10.680 are architects that do push new ideas, you know, obviously, 1:02:10.760 --> 1:02:14.200 like a lot of architects push new ideas. But you know, 1:02:14.360 --> 1:02:18.040 the frustrating thing is it's on the developer side of 1:02:18.080 --> 1:02:21.640 the foot to say, Okay, we don't need eighteen holes 1:02:21.640 --> 1:02:24.200 of championship golf. We can do this different thing. 1:02:24.880 --> 1:02:28.600 Yeah, I mean you have to have the medici, you know, 1:02:28.680 --> 1:02:32.040 to to fund the fund the artist. I mean I've 1:02:32.080 --> 1:02:34.720 thought about that a lot. I mean, in one of 1:02:34.720 --> 1:02:38.640 my biggest frustrations, you know, prior to us quote unquote 1:02:38.680 --> 1:02:41.880 making it. I think we've made it now, But in 1:02:41.920 --> 1:02:44.600 the days where we were having a hard time, it was, 1:02:45.600 --> 1:02:49.560 you know, immensely frustrating that I couldn't go out, like 1:02:49.600 --> 1:02:51.400 you said, and go down into the basement and write 1:02:51.800 --> 1:02:54.960 the song. I couldn't. I have all these ideas, you know, 1:02:55.120 --> 1:02:57.240 Tad and I have these ideas, we have these concepts, 1:02:57.240 --> 1:03:01.120 these things we want to do, and to have to 1:03:01.160 --> 1:03:05.440 rely on someone else is tough, you know, my my, 1:03:07.120 --> 1:03:11.600 You know, the resorts are corporate and down the middle, 1:03:11.680 --> 1:03:16.640 and a lot of times I get that, but hey, 1:03:16.800 --> 1:03:19.800 at the same time, I'd say, the proofs in the pudding. 1:03:19.920 --> 1:03:25.680 I mean, we deliver and you know Landman basically sold 1:03:25.680 --> 1:03:28.680 out like that, Sweeten's Cove sells out in five to 1:03:28.720 --> 1:03:33.120 ten minutes. Red Feather is going to be very successful. 1:03:34.640 --> 1:03:38.400 You know. We take pride in our in our courses working. 1:03:38.440 --> 1:03:46.560 And the other thing too, is is I mean, you know, 1:03:47.480 --> 1:03:51.480 I'm remembering my quote from your podcast that we did 1:03:51.480 --> 1:03:55.840 when you know, the third podcast. You know, when I 1:03:55.920 --> 1:03:58.480 find it's like, if we finally get this opportunity, I mean, 1:03:59.000 --> 1:04:02.600 we are going to be like crazy, you know, I mean, 1:04:03.280 --> 1:04:08.600 if we got that we are not fucking it up. Period. Okay, 1:04:09.120 --> 1:04:12.240 we are going to deliver. And you know they've got 1:04:12.360 --> 1:04:16.800 nine hundred and something makers. I hope Tom calls me. 1:04:17.160 --> 1:04:20.920 I mean, there's plenty of room to do it in. 1:04:20.960 --> 1:04:24.000 Terms of like when you look at when you look back, 1:04:24.040 --> 1:04:26.960 when you think about past projects, you know, like I 1:04:27.120 --> 1:04:29.120 do this all the time. I think about like what 1:04:29.160 --> 1:04:31.240 can I do better? What can I do this? Like 1:04:31.440 --> 1:04:34.960 I think every you know, every off season, you think 1:04:34.960 --> 1:04:37.880 about your favorite sporting athletes. It's like, well, man, if 1:04:38.680 --> 1:04:41.400 this guy could develop a jumper, he'd be lights out. 1:04:42.000 --> 1:04:44.160 Do you do you do that? As architects? Do you 1:04:44.160 --> 1:04:46.280 guys ever talk about like think like, you know, what 1:04:46.880 --> 1:04:48.480 if we could get a little bit better at this, 1:04:48.600 --> 1:04:51.080 or we could do this a little different. And has 1:04:51.120 --> 1:04:53.880 there been an instance of like you've you've made a 1:04:54.040 --> 1:04:56.200 slight tweak to the way you do things that have 1:04:57.320 --> 1:04:59.880 led to improvement, or there are things that you know, hey, 1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:02.640 we should get a little bit better at this. I'm 1:05:02.680 --> 1:05:05.040 just curious nobody ever talks about this stuff. And I 1:05:05.720 --> 1:05:07.280 wanted to ask you. 1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:11.760 No, absolutely, I mean I think that, uh, you know, 1:05:11.840 --> 1:05:16.800 Tad and I are both inquisitive people, and we talk 1:05:17.080 --> 1:05:19.200 all the time, but just me and him. I mean 1:05:19.240 --> 1:05:21.040 I talked to him an hour or two every day. 1:05:21.520 --> 1:05:24.440 And one of the things that comes up in conversation is, 1:05:24.920 --> 1:05:27.600 you know, we'll say something like, I really learned a 1:05:27.600 --> 1:05:30.760 lot on that project. You know, we learned something there. 1:05:30.840 --> 1:05:34.520 Every single project teaches you new lessons. I mean, we've 1:05:34.600 --> 1:05:40.240 learned new lessons at Red Feather, and you learn everyone 1:05:40.640 --> 1:05:44.800 teaches you new things, and and you know, I think 1:05:44.840 --> 1:05:50.360 we're always trying to We don't ever want to be 1:05:50.440 --> 1:05:53.720 copying anybody else, So we're constantly kind of probing at 1:05:53.720 --> 1:06:01.840 the edges of you know, doing new things, new expressions 1:06:01.920 --> 1:06:04.479 of what we're what we're doing. But at the same time, 1:06:05.040 --> 1:06:08.000 we never want it to be We never wanted to 1:06:09.480 --> 1:06:13.160 not work or feel contrived. I mean, so there's a 1:06:13.320 --> 1:06:15.560 there's a balance with that, and I mean there's a 1:06:15.600 --> 1:06:20.360 few things were you know, maybe yeah, you know, maybe 1:06:20.400 --> 1:06:22.520 we should have done this a little bit different, and 1:06:22.560 --> 1:06:26.080 you learn from it. But yeah, I mean that that's 1:06:26.120 --> 1:06:29.000 that's part of the artistic process. I mean, it just 1:06:29.160 --> 1:06:32.440 is work because we're kind, you know, as much as 1:06:32.680 --> 1:06:36.400 a critic, you know, might look at something that we 1:06:36.440 --> 1:06:38.200 do and say, oh, you should have done this or that. 1:06:38.280 --> 1:06:40.959 I mean, I can promise you we have gone through 1:06:41.120 --> 1:06:44.760 all those conversations a million times over, and you know, 1:06:44.800 --> 1:06:47.919 we're always trying to do it, you know, like I said, 1:06:47.960 --> 1:06:51.720 a new look, a new a new style. I don't 1:06:52.600 --> 1:06:54.920 This is kind of a contradictory comment. 1:06:54.640 --> 1:06:54.800 But. 1:06:56.720 --> 1:07:00.200 I want people to be able to walk onto a 1:07:00.280 --> 1:07:03.440 King Collins golf course in fifty or one hundred years 1:07:04.200 --> 1:07:11.160 and say, there's something about it. This is a King Collins. Okay. 1:07:11.920 --> 1:07:15.920 But at the same time, I really don't want them 1:07:16.480 --> 1:07:18.800 to just be able to look at it and go, oh, 1:07:18.840 --> 1:07:20.840 that's a King Collins. Does that make sense. 1:07:21.040 --> 1:07:21.320 Yeah. 1:07:21.520 --> 1:07:24.560 I don't want to be I don't ever want us 1:07:24.600 --> 1:07:27.160 to be repetitive. I want each of our clients to 1:07:27.160 --> 1:07:32.880 get a new, little special present from us. Each one 1:07:32.960 --> 1:07:35.640 is a new little gift, and we have to find 1:07:35.960 --> 1:07:39.040 a new way each time to create that little flare, 1:07:39.440 --> 1:07:42.840 this little thing. We've got this little project going on 1:07:44.440 --> 1:07:50.200 right now, and Mark Berger built this cool little role 1:07:50.400 --> 1:07:52.680 that's unlike any role we've had in any of our 1:07:52.720 --> 1:07:57.000 other Greens, And I was like, God, that is so badass, 1:07:57.840 --> 1:08:02.160 in like, that's part of the little gift to the client, 1:08:02.240 --> 1:08:04.600 Like that's something we haven't seen before on one of 1:08:04.600 --> 1:08:07.080 our courses, and so each every one you're and it 1:08:07.160 --> 1:08:09.240 might be something small like that, it might be something bigger. 1:08:10.680 --> 1:08:14.160 But every time you're trying to find something, find a 1:08:14.160 --> 1:08:16.400 new way, if that makes sense. 1:08:17.640 --> 1:08:21.080 Last question before we get you out of here, where 1:08:21.120 --> 1:08:24.080 would you like to see golf architecture go? I think 1:08:24.120 --> 1:08:27.040 we're obviously at a point there's a lot of work, 1:08:27.240 --> 1:08:29.679 there's a lot of projects going on, and a little 1:08:29.680 --> 1:08:33.280 bit of an inflection point. As you know, there is 1:08:33.600 --> 1:08:37.519 a new crop of yourself, included architects getting a chance. 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:41.000 You know, what general direction would you like to see 1:08:41.240 --> 1:08:42.960 architecture go? Or one direction? 1:08:44.479 --> 1:08:47.840 You know? I think you know one thing Tad and 1:08:47.880 --> 1:08:50.880 I talked about in twenty ten. It's hard to believe 1:08:50.880 --> 1:08:56.880 when we started King Collins was it. You know, if 1:08:56.880 --> 1:08:59.040 we can just get one in the ground, we can 1:08:59.080 --> 1:09:03.920 we can build on that up. And the point we 1:09:03.920 --> 1:09:05.479 were making that was in the middle of a very 1:09:05.520 --> 1:09:11.080 bad recession downturning golf, was that, you know, golf is 1:09:11.120 --> 1:09:14.240 gonna is gonna be down, but we felt like if 1:09:14.240 --> 1:09:16.799 we can come out of it with something in the ground, 1:09:17.800 --> 1:09:21.480 with a new wrinkle, you know, we'll we'll get opportunities. 1:09:22.080 --> 1:09:24.559 And we knew also at the same time that there 1:09:24.600 --> 1:09:29.920 was a glut of a lot of very uninteresting, uninspiring 1:09:29.960 --> 1:09:33.360 golf out there, and that this whole movement and I think, 1:09:33.520 --> 1:09:37.519 you know, you've ridden this wave. I mean, no laying up. 1:09:37.560 --> 1:09:41.160 I mean we've ridden it. That this new interest in 1:09:41.240 --> 1:09:47.640 golf is reactionary towards again, sorry, this earlier era of 1:09:48.120 --> 1:09:51.400 very boring, kind of punch the ticket kind of stuff. 1:09:52.040 --> 1:09:54.479 And so you know, we could kind of feel that, 1:09:55.080 --> 1:10:00.479 and there is to me still and I talked to 1:10:01.520 --> 1:10:04.479 some golf developers about this, there is not a not 1:10:04.640 --> 1:10:11.959 yet satisfied desire for new and compelling and interesting golf. 1:10:12.000 --> 1:10:15.960 The population will still go and seek that out. And 1:10:16.600 --> 1:10:19.960 you know a lot of times maybe that is refurbishing 1:10:20.000 --> 1:10:27.000 something that was old, or finding opportunities in underserved golf populations. 1:10:27.040 --> 1:10:30.160 I mean, there's a lot of great golf cities out 1:10:30.160 --> 1:10:35.040 there that essentially are underserved. I mean, look at Atlanta. 1:10:35.080 --> 1:10:39.599 I mean, for instance, Okay, there's tons of golfers there, 1:10:40.320 --> 1:10:41.600 there's compelling. 1:10:41.160 --> 1:10:43.880 Ground around there. 1:10:43.240 --> 1:10:45.479 There's lots of golf courses, but none of them are 1:10:45.520 --> 1:10:48.679 real good, at least the ones you can get on. 1:10:49.560 --> 1:10:54.200 And it's like if somebody built an amazing public facility there, 1:10:55.720 --> 1:10:58.800 it would print money. I mean, there's still going to 1:10:58.840 --> 1:11:01.439 be opportunities like that. So I think that it's to 1:11:01.479 --> 1:11:03.040 get to your question, I mean, I think it's kind 1:11:03.080 --> 1:11:06.439 of just resetting the old ways and and and just 1:11:06.640 --> 1:11:10.080 finding finding the right opportunities. And there's there's plenty of 1:11:10.120 --> 1:11:17.439 opportunities in these in places too, to go where where 1:11:17.439 --> 1:11:22.800 you have this inverse relationship of low quality golf to 1:11:23.120 --> 1:11:28.160 high demand, and that's not satisfied yet. So I remain 1:11:29.000 --> 1:11:32.519 bullish about prospects for the future. And and and there's 1:11:32.560 --> 1:11:36.960 a lot of young people are gonna get to do 1:11:37.120 --> 1:11:39.640 meet things and that that's great. 1:11:40.360 --> 1:11:43.760 All right, Rob, that's uh, it's a pleasure having you on. 1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:47.920 We're gonna have you on in a shorter time duration 1:11:48.200 --> 1:11:51.280 than than last you know, the five years or four 1:11:51.360 --> 1:11:53.240 years in between episodes. 1:11:53.400 --> 1:11:55.080 Yeah, man, it was great to talk to you again. 1:11:55.160 --> 1:11:57.120 Can't wait to can't wait to see you again. Sam. 1:11:57.280 --> 1:11:59.120 Yeah, I can't wait to see you. It's spent too long, 1:11:59.640 --> 1:12:03.400 it has and we'll keep in touch. But people can 1:12:03.479 --> 1:12:06.479 find you. You're on Twitter and Instagram, and then you 1:12:06.520 --> 1:12:09.799 have your website, King Collins It's at Kingcollins goolf Design dot. 1:12:09.680 --> 1:12:13.000 Com, Kingcollinsgolf dot com, and then King Collins Golf on 1:12:13.439 --> 1:12:15.000 Twitter and Instagram. 1:12:15.040 --> 1:12:17.519 So thanks Rob and we'll talk soon. 1:12:18.160 --> 1:12:18.559 Awesome. 1:12:18.560 --> 1:12:32.439 Thank you Andy, Thank you for listening to another edition 1:12:32.600 --> 1:12:36.320 of the Friday Podcast. As a quick reminder, we have 1:12:36.680 --> 1:12:41.479 event registration. As I mentioned before in this episode, event 1:12:41.560 --> 1:12:45.840 registration went live for Club TFE members this week, but 1:12:46.240 --> 1:12:48.880 for the general public if you are not a Club 1:12:48.920 --> 1:12:53.080 TFU member, they will It will be up on Monday. 1:12:53.520 --> 1:12:57.160 So the events that are open as as it stands 1:12:57.200 --> 1:13:00.639 now are the Boomerang at Seoul Park, the Ill Hants 1:13:00.840 --> 1:13:04.840 redesigned Soul Park in Ohi, California. Wonderful place to spend 1:13:04.880 --> 1:13:09.799 a day playing golf, really laid back event. The Steam 1:13:09.840 --> 1:13:14.280 Shovel at Lawsonia that is on that is in mid 1:13:14.400 --> 1:13:19.679 May on a Saturday in mid May. Fantastic William Lankford 1:13:19.920 --> 1:13:23.679 Theodore Moreau Golf Course, one of my favorite golf courses 1:13:23.720 --> 1:13:28.320 in the Midwest. And then we also have Hollywood The 1:13:28.320 --> 1:13:33.160 Blockbuster at Hollywood Golf Club, widely considered Walter Travis's best 1:13:33.200 --> 1:13:36.120 golf course. That's in New Jersey, and that's in June 1:13:36.720 --> 1:13:40.120 as well as the Dog Bowl at Yale, so at 1:13:40.200 --> 1:13:44.639 the SETH Rayner, C B. McDonald, you know a place 1:13:44.680 --> 1:13:47.400 that you kind of have to see to believe how 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:52.160 big and bold the architecture is at Yale. The dog 1:13:52.200 --> 1:13:56.639 Bowl will be the Saturday after the Blockbuster, which is 1:13:56.680 --> 1:13:59.800 in kind of the mid to end of June, so 1:14:00.120 --> 1:14:03.960 that will be all those will be available to everybody 1:14:04.080 --> 1:14:09.439 on Monday, January twenty third. So thank you for listening 1:14:09.520 --> 1:14:12.040 to Friday Egg. We'll be back next week. We've got 1:14:12.040 --> 1:14:15.680 some new Podza in the hopper and look forward to 1:14:15.760 --> 1:14:17.000 talking to you guys again soon