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Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When

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Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in.

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Speaker 1: A brid egg Frida, egg Frida, egg Frida egg bride

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Speaker 1: egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is with Rob Collins. Rob is one of

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Speaker 1: the principles of King Collin's design. He, along with Tad King,

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Speaker 1: are a up and coming golf architecture firm. So Rob

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Speaker 1: was the fourth episode of the Friday Egg Podcast ever.

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Speaker 1: So it's been a while since Rob was on, but

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Speaker 1: one of our earliest guests coming back on. I was

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Speaker 1: really excited to chat with Rob. It had been too long.

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Speaker 1: Should have had him on many times before. Since that podcast,

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Speaker 1: they've built courses Sweeten's Cove, but they've also opened innis

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Speaker 1: Landman and they are in the process of putting the

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Speaker 1: finish finishing touches on Red Feather down in Lubbock, Texas,

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Speaker 1: and have some exciting new projects in the hopper. So

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Speaker 1: we discussed a wide range of topics in this podcast,

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Speaker 1: and without further ado, here is Rob Collins. Robert spent

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Speaker 1: a long time, very long time og Frida Egg pod

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Speaker 1: guests in the first I think in the first five episodes.

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Speaker 1: I think it might be episode four.

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Speaker 2: I really hope we have better audio today. I think

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Speaker 2: we have better audio.

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Speaker 1: I can almost assure you that we will. We are not.

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Speaker 1: You know, the audio on my end is not coming

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Speaker 1: through my MacBook speakers and being recorded on my phone.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and I'm not I'm not on a I'm

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Speaker 2: not driving to Knoxville in the rain and like on

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Speaker 2: a bad speaker phone or something.

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Speaker 1: Those old episodes, like I if if you were going

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Speaker 1: to torture me, it would be having me listen to

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Speaker 1: my early episodes, that would be. That'd be about as

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Speaker 1: much as you could torture me. I think I think

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Speaker 1: it'd be worse than like bodily harm.

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Speaker 2: That was fun it's it's it's funny how many people

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Speaker 2: still talk to me, you know, they say, you know,

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Speaker 2: they they they heard that episode. That was that made

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Speaker 2: a big difference for us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's uh, what's the new? You're one of the

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Speaker 1: busiest guys in golf now and uh and and where

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Speaker 1: where you been? Uh? What's what's been? Kind of like

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Speaker 1: the last last year, I imagine, you know, you set your

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Speaker 1: intentions with it being at the new year. When you

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Speaker 1: look back on twenty twenty two, what were the things

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Speaker 1: that stood out for you?

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Speaker 2: Well, we you know, we're really really deep into Red

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Speaker 2: Feather at that point and made a ton of progress

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Speaker 2: out there, so that was a big, big deal for us.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, the culmination of getting Landman open,

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Speaker 2: I mean that was that was huge. I mean it

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Speaker 2: was funny it opened. Will set the opening date for

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Speaker 2: September four, twenty twenty two, which was the three year

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Speaker 2: anniversary of when we were out there, and I mean

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Speaker 2: that's hard to believe that it was twenty nineteen, but

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Speaker 2: you know, he really took the extra time to make

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Speaker 2: sure that it was dialed in and everything and hit

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Speaker 2: that anniversary and that was that was really special. That's

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Speaker 2: something I'll never forget.

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Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that'll stick with me

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Speaker 1: with Landman and the construction project project and process of

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Speaker 1: being out there a decent amount is like you know,

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Speaker 1: just going out there and seeing those scrapers moving for

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Speaker 1: like entire days on one fair way and just the

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Speaker 1: you know the amount of earth work that had had

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Speaker 1: to happen to make you know, certain areas of that

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Speaker 1: property golfable, and you know it three years is a

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Speaker 1: long time, but in terms of that project, it feels

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Speaker 1: like it was actually kind of short.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that was it was definitely a

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Speaker 2: herculean effort. We were so lucky to have some unbelievably

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Speaker 2: talented guys out there helping us. And you know, in

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Speaker 2: a way, it's funny. I mean it's kind of like

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Speaker 2: Sweetens in a way, like the more the harder you try,

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Speaker 2: the more you know, attached you get to it. And

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Speaker 2: you know that it was just a difficult project because

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Speaker 2: of how much work had to be done, and then

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Speaker 2: you know, Will made a really good decision to to

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Speaker 2: sold it, you know, but even then, I mean it

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Speaker 2: still took still took time to get it dialed in,

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Speaker 2: and so when it was finally ready, I mean you

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Speaker 2: just built up to this moment in time and that

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Speaker 2: was I just that was what a couple of days.

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Speaker 2: That was awesome.

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Speaker 1: Hey, you know, I wanted to kind of take back

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Speaker 1: obviously the first time, you know, when we did this

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Speaker 1: a long time ago. Yeah, Sween's Cove was in like

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Speaker 1: a completely different place, right, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, in a death spiral basically, I.

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Speaker 1: Think about it. It's you know, we we both at

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Speaker 1: that point we had had businesses that we didn't really

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Speaker 1: know what the future held for them. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I think there's probably you probably could go back and

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Speaker 1: count on you know, you could list off dozens of

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Speaker 1: moments like pinch me moments in different formative important moments

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Speaker 1: of Sweden's Cove. But like if there's one like time

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Speaker 1: where you thought, I can't believe this is happening in

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Speaker 1: its history, your time there, what would it be?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, definitely, definitely the biggest moment

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Speaker 2: was when when the group finally came together, the ownership group.

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Speaker 2: We had searched long and hard for a really long

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Speaker 2: time to find a great group to partner with, and

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Speaker 2: I was coming off the back of actually turning down

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Speaker 2: a very very successful golf developer who's done really good projects.

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Speaker 2: Have a lot of respect for him, but we just

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Speaker 2: couldn't come to agreement on the numbers. And you know,

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Speaker 2: going through the negotiations with Mark was was a breeze

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Speaker 2: and it was we just could tell, you know, it

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Speaker 2: was it was going to happen, and it was going

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Speaker 2: to work. And then you know, when the story of

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Speaker 2: when I was out to dinner with with Mark and

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Speaker 2: Tom Nolan and I didn't know Peyton was going to

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Speaker 2: be one of the partners, and when Peyton walked into

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Speaker 2: the restaurant and they all surprised me with that, that

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Speaker 2: was just like, holy shit. I mean, I can't believe

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Speaker 2: this is happening. I just couldn't believe it. That was

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's still just you know, get tears in

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Speaker 2: my eyes thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: Really, it's an unbelievable surprise. Like you know, it was.

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Speaker 2: An unbelievable surprise. It was just a big it was

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Speaker 2: I mean, it was the biggest surprise. I mean, uh,

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Speaker 2: Will Bardwell wrote a great piece about that. And every

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Speaker 2: time I read the restaurant scene, you know, from time

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Speaker 2: to time, once a year or something, I'll go back

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Speaker 2: and read that article and it always it gets a

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Speaker 2: little dusty every time I get to that scene. That

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Speaker 2: was a that was a big deal. And it's it's

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Speaker 2: awesome having those guys on board. I mean, it's been

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Speaker 2: so fun to watch it. And now you know, with

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Speaker 2: Matta Danski running things, I mean he's taken it to

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Speaker 2: a whole new level. I mean he's just an amazing

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Speaker 2: GM and so creative and so passionate about it, and

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Speaker 2: that place needs somebody who's going to live and breathe

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Speaker 2: that experience because it's so different, and he just does

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Speaker 2: an incredible job, and it just it just keeps getting better.

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Speaker 2: And every year we think of, you know, ways we

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Speaker 2: can make the experience better, and and just we always

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Speaker 2: try to make it better for people. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's really helped it continue to be fun and attractive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the at that at Sweetens that there

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Speaker 1: has to be a definitive culture ceter right.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, you know a great way to say it.

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Speaker 1: It was Patrick before Matt and it's just you know,

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Speaker 1: in a way, and obviously that the model, the business

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Speaker 1: model of the golf course has changed tremendously. You know,

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Speaker 1: the way people think of sweet and Scove has changed

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Speaker 1: completely from five years ago, yeah to now. And it's

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Speaker 1: you guys now in a way like you were kind

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Speaker 1: of like the little engine that could, but now I

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Speaker 1: imagine in a way that you're kind of with the

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Speaker 1: all day passes, the high demand, you know, like you

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Speaker 1: have become this bucket list you're almost you have to

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Speaker 1: deliver an experience from when somebody gets out of the

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Speaker 1: car with with the golf court. How has that changed

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Speaker 1: and how you guys think about, you know, delivering a

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Speaker 1: experience for like a top notch experience for people, because obviously,

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Speaker 1: like the I think the expectations of when somebody goes

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Speaker 1: there is dramatically different than you know, five six years ago.

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Speaker 2: There's no question. I mean I think people had had

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Speaker 2: zero expectations. I mean one of my best friends, he's

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Speaker 2: become a great friend through Sweden's guy named John Allen.

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Speaker 2: You know, he went out there and he was a

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Speaker 2: huge supporter of ours very early. Remember and his first

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Speaker 2: time out there. I'll always get tickled here in his

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Speaker 2: story because he he went and played nine holes and

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Speaker 2: he walked up to the shed and just walked straight

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Speaker 2: up to Patrick. John's very straightforward. He said, what the

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Speaker 2: hell is this place doing here? I mean it just

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Speaker 2: it didn't make sense, you know, like how is this

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Speaker 2: golf course here? And then also why am I like

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Speaker 2: the only player here? And so but then people who

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Speaker 2: just people who didn't know about it. I mean they

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Speaker 2: had very low expectations, as you said before, and now

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Speaker 2: there's a very high expectation. And that's something we talk

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Speaker 2: about all the time. And that's where Matt and Colt

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Speaker 2: and those guys just I think they do an absolutely

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Speaker 2: amazing job of having this immersive experience and treating everyone,

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Speaker 2: you know, really well and like they're like they're a

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Speaker 2: house guest almost, you know, and a cherished house guest

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Speaker 2: coming in and you just want to show him a

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Speaker 2: great time. And so that's something we talk about a lot.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we fell into the all day pass

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Speaker 2: thing by accident, and that was the result of you know,

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Speaker 2: the golf course being too crowded, and we we we

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Speaker 2: figured out that let's do this all day pass thing

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Speaker 2: and see how that works. And then it became that

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Speaker 2: became really popular, and you know, each year we we

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Speaker 2: strive to get better on the experience side of it.

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Speaker 2: And this year one of the things we're going to

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Speaker 2: be doing to make it better is we're going to

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Speaker 2: work with a food provider, you know, like a food truck,

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Speaker 2: so you'll actually be able to get food there rather

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Speaker 2: than you know, ordering out to dominos.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's huge, and it's going to be a tough

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Speaker 1: break for the subways.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a tough break for the subway. The good and

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Speaker 2: the bad subway, so you know things like that. You know,

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Speaker 2: we want to you know, improve the you know, furniture

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Speaker 2: and kind of hang out space up top, and we

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Speaker 2: just want people to be really comfortable and have a

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Speaker 2: great time and not want for anything. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: as we've gotten into it and seen it grow, I

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Speaker 2: think we're you know, in a place where we can

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Speaker 2: do certain things you know, we couldn't do a couple

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Speaker 2: of years ago.

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Speaker 1: So how how does being on the side of you know,

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Speaker 1: you're part of an ownership, part of people, that part

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Speaker 1: of a group that makes decisions about the daily operation

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Speaker 1: of a golf course. Does that help you with talking

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Speaker 1: with perspective owners about new projects?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? I mean Sweetens has given me in Tad too,

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Speaker 2: you know, Tad's experience prior to us going out on

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Speaker 2: our own. I mean he had a lot of experience

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Speaker 2: in setting up operations too, and so that combined and

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Speaker 2: Tad's been intimately involved in the launch of Sweetens and

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Speaker 2: he always knows what's going on. So both of us

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Speaker 2: collectively having been through all that, it's given us a

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Speaker 2: wealth of knowledge and experience that we can give suggestions.

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Speaker 2: And one thing that I've noticed just with how the

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Speaker 2: way golf is going and the way consumers are kind

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Speaker 2: of looking for golf is more what I would call

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Speaker 2: like an immersive type of experience. People are less interested

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Speaker 2: and less inclined to just you know, going and getting

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Speaker 2: a ten twenty tea time and there's a ten to

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Speaker 2: twenty eight behind it, and that's like punching a clock

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Speaker 2: at work. You know. These very rigid systems that we've

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Speaker 2: had that you and I grew up with playing golf

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Speaker 2: are going away, and people are looking for kind of

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Speaker 2: a more immersive, authentic experience, and so we try to

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Speaker 2: think about creative ways to deliver that in various formats.

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Speaker 2: I mean, some of our clients have private clubs and

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Speaker 2: some are republic but you try to you think a

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Speaker 2: lot about the experience and how that's the whole thing,

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Speaker 2: and how the golf course architecture can tie into that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you create you know, I think one of

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Speaker 1: the things that the all day pass and I've never

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Speaker 1: actually like, I've been there all day a number of times,

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Speaker 1: you know, for different things. I've never participated the all

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Speaker 1: day past thing. But the way I kind of think

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Speaker 1: about it in my head is that what you've done

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Speaker 1: is the traditional public golf experience is kind of like

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Speaker 1: a movie. Right, you have your showtime, you show up,

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Speaker 1: you know you're there a little bit ahead of time.

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Speaker 1: You get your popcorn, you get your your drink, you

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Speaker 1: watch your movie, and then you leave. And what you've

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Speaker 1: almost done with the all day past there is you've

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Speaker 1: created more of like a feel of like a music festival,

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Speaker 1: where you know, you show up up, you're watching one show.

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Speaker 1: You might bounce over to a different stage for a while.

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Speaker 1: You might decide, hey, let's just hang out here for

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Speaker 1: a little bit and stop playing golf. But then I'm

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Speaker 1: going to jump back out, you know, in twenty minutes.

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Speaker 1: And it's much more of a free flowing I'm here

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Speaker 1: all day. And I think one of the things it

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Speaker 1: does is it actually like it makes the golf more

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Speaker 1: casual in a way, and because you're not in this

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Speaker 1: like hurry like there, it removes that schedule from the

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Speaker 1: day and it creates like almost more of a relaxing,

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Speaker 1: laid back, approachable atmosphere.

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Speaker 2: That's absolutely true. I mean, it's it takes the pressure

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Speaker 2: off in people who come there who maybe haven't done

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Speaker 2: it before. You know, there's a little bit of anxiety

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Speaker 2: on the first he of like I've got to get out,

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Speaker 2: you know, And Matt's really good at kind of talking

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Speaker 2: off the ledge a little bit and saying, Okay, look,

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Speaker 2: you're going to be here till nine o'clock tonight in summertime,

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Speaker 2: like it's going to be okay. And you know, the fun,

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Speaker 2: really fun thing is is about the all day passes.

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Speaker 2: It like gives a lot of power to the consumer.

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Speaker 2: We're not dictating how they're going to enjoy the golf course.

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Speaker 2: They decide that on their own. And and you know,

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Speaker 2: we don't have many rules, you know. Basically all we

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Speaker 2: ask is that you be respectful of the golf course

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Speaker 2: and the people around you and and and keep up,

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Speaker 2: you know, in other words, play play fast, don't don't

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Speaker 2: don't bog the place down. And so if you can

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Speaker 2: do that playing with five or six people, great, you know.

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Speaker 2: And and then the other thing too, is is that

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Speaker 2: it creates a cool atmosphere where you know, somebody from

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Speaker 2: Chicago may you know, be going around and they end

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Speaker 2: up pairing up with some guys from Florida, and and

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Speaker 2: you know, they become friends and have a have a

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Speaker 2: unique experience in that way. And then towards the end

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Speaker 2: of the day. Is the attrition inevitably, you know, opens

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Speaker 2: up more space on the golf course. People can kind

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Speaker 2: of go, you know, maybe you play number one backwards

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Speaker 2: to number nine, or do some of the cross country

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Speaker 2: stuff too. So there's there's a lot of flexibility and

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Speaker 2: in it's kind of a choose your own adventure in

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Speaker 2: a lot of ways, where people just they're the ones

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Speaker 2: in control and they they they can do what they please.

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Speaker 1: I got to ask your your life's changed significantly, and

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Speaker 1: you know, you you've effectively gone from you know, a

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Speaker 1: designer of a nine hole golf course who was really

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Speaker 1: waiting around for their next break, you and Tad to

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Speaker 1: now you're a very I would say, you're a very

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Speaker 1: busy golf architect. You have I think like that. I

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Speaker 1: know of three plus jobs that are that are in

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Speaker 1: some sort of process, probably a lot more coming down

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Speaker 1: the pipe. And how how's that transition been and would

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Speaker 1: have been? You know, the you know, the big things

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Speaker 1: that you've had to change.

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Speaker 2: It's it's it's been a very welcome transition for starters.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's it's it's always been. It's you know

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Speaker 2: what we work so hard for and.

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Speaker 1: There's like no middle ground. It seems like.

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Speaker 2: There's no middle ground. And but it's funny. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, we all have bad days and and you

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Speaker 2: have great days, or maybe you get a little down

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Speaker 2: about something and I often say to like Rob, what

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Speaker 2: the hell? You know what, you don't have anything to

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Speaker 2: complain about. I mean, you're doing what you want, doing

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Speaker 2: great projects with great clients, you know. So sometimes I

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Speaker 2: have to have a little bit of a reality check

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Speaker 2: because you know, things can get stressful or busy. But

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Speaker 2: you know, uh, the growth of King Collins is in

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Speaker 2: how we handle that is something that Tad and I

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Speaker 2: talk a lot about. We spend a lot of time

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Speaker 2: talking about that and how we you know, add people

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Speaker 2: on and you know, we've been fortunate to bring bring

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Speaker 2: some young guys on who are a huge help on site.

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Speaker 2: I mean as a design build firm, you know, we

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Speaker 2: don't like working on more than two projects at a time,

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Speaker 2: and you know that that creates a lot of you know,

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Speaker 2: scheduling complexities for me and Tad. I mean sometimes I'll

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Speaker 2: need to be here and he'll need to be there,

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Speaker 2: and then there's you know, back of office helps stuff

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Speaker 2: that we have people to help us with that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know, you just hired one of our old interns, Matt,

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Speaker 2: who's doing a great job for you. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we have somebody working for us named Sharon who does

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Speaker 2: a lot of things that you know, we used to

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Speaker 2: have to do that we don't really have time for now.

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Speaker 2: So but like figuring all that out is we're figuring

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Speaker 2: out on the fly, you know, and that's it's not

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Speaker 2: always easy, and there's fits and star with it. But

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Speaker 2: I think we're I think we're figuring it out.

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Speaker 1: What has been you know, if you can give us

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Speaker 1: share some light, what's been the toughest challenge about this,

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Speaker 1: about the growth? I mean I can relate.

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Speaker 2: I yeah, I mean, well it's funny. I mean, you know, uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, I remember vividly when when Patrick told me

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Speaker 2: about you coming out there to Sweetens in twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 2: You know, this guy's driving down from Knoxville to come

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Speaker 2: see it, and lives changed in both of our lives

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Speaker 2: in that time. And I like to every time I

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Speaker 2: see you, I make a comment about you being the

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Speaker 2: busiest busiest man in show business. I mean, you really,

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Speaker 2: it's insane how busy you are. But I think that,

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Speaker 2: like the hardest thing has just been striking kind of

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Speaker 2: a work life balance at times. You know, when things

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Speaker 2: are really busy on a couple of projects, it can

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Speaker 2: it can you know, it can get stressful, and you know,

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Speaker 2: you just got to that. That's where us hiring more

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Speaker 2: people has been a huge help and good people. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's funny. There's a guy working for us right now,

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Speaker 2: Bruce Shober, young guy who's just crushing it as one

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Speaker 2: of our project managers, and it's he was working out

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Speaker 2: at Landman at one point in time at Landman for

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Speaker 2: weeks on end. His job was to pull sticks out

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Speaker 2: of the sand that we were getting from the river

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Speaker 2: just so it wouldn't go in the greens. I mean,

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Speaker 2: talk about you know, not very fun. But he didn't complain.

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Speaker 2: He great attitude and now he's running projects and you know,

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Speaker 2: being able to have people like Bruce step up and

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Speaker 2: help is huge. And we've got a nice stable of

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Speaker 2: guys we really like to work with on shapers of

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Speaker 2: things and that's been great too. So we just we

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Speaker 2: just need to keep building and keep trunning ourselves with

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Speaker 2: good people planning week behind.

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Speaker 1: Now for a quick word from our sponsor today's episode

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00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: is brought to you by Club TFE. We are cooking

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Speaker 1: in Club TFI. That is the Fridagg membership. So for

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Speaker 1: into a singular course and you know, every week we

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Speaker 1: add a new one with an egg rating, as well

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Speaker 1: as a monthly hangout that is happening soon be basically

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Speaker 1: like a live Q and a podcast and that will

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Speaker 1: be next week. And then we also do early event access,

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Speaker 1: so events are starting to open up. We just had

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Speaker 1: if you haven't yet, if you're interested, if you want

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Speaker 1: more stuff from us. I'm really really proud of what

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Speaker 1: our team's been putting out and I think we are

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Speaker 1: just going to keep improving this. We hope we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of ideas and plans to continue to evolve this,

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Speaker 1: but right now I think it's a really good product

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Speaker 1: and thank you to everybody that has joined in for

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00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: the support. And now back to Rob Collins. What are

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Speaker 1: some things that you hated letting go that now you

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Speaker 1: look back on and laugh, like, thank God, it's out

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Speaker 1: of my life.

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Speaker 2: I mean, well, a lot of this stuff is like

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Speaker 2: just awful, like paper pushing stuff, Like I didn't hate

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Speaker 2: to let that go. But on the other side, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: thank God that I'm not doing that stuff anymore. Like

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Speaker 2: I am so bad. Tad and I laugh. I mean

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Speaker 2: we are the two worst administrative people on Earth. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if I worked in an office, I would be fired

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Speaker 2: within four hours. You know, I can't. I can't stand

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Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And you know, having people to

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Speaker 2: help with that has been has been huge. But I

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Speaker 2: didn't I didn't shed a tear when I got to

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Speaker 2: say goodbye to some of that either.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean that's like the stuff I think

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Speaker 1: about that all the time is like it's it's seems

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Speaker 1: sometimes like stuff seems like it's so hard, like I

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Speaker 1: could never get rid of this, and then you finally

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Speaker 1: get rid of it, and you're like, why did it

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Speaker 1: take me three years to get rid of this stuff?

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Speaker 1: It's it's just you know, is there anything in the

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Speaker 1: creative process I imagine? I mean you talk about work

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Speaker 1: life balance. I go through a lot of the same stuff.

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Speaker 1: You know, both of our jobs require us to be

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Speaker 1: away from home a decent amount, which obviously then you know,

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Speaker 1: puts a strain on that relationship. It do you find yourself?

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Speaker 1: Have you, as you guys scale and I think this

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Speaker 1: is obviously a tricky thing in the design build world,

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Speaker 1: Like everything in your business pushes you to want to

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Speaker 1: scale up, but the ethos of your business is craftsmanship,

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Speaker 1: which is like the complete opposite of scaling up. That's right,

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Speaker 1: So you know, have there have you started to let

433
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: go a little bit of some of the creative processes

434
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: in certain aspects, And you know you talk about bringing

435
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: more people on, obviously you want them to grow as well.

436
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you know, Tad and I don't spend as

437
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 2: much time on machines as we used to, just simply

438
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 2: because of time commitments. But having really talented people who

439
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 2: can come in and help with that and do those

440
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: things has been tremendously helpful. But you know, Tad and

441
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: I have talked about that, and when we have accepted

442
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 2: the fact that we do in fact have a ceiling, too,

443
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 2: are the scale. I mean, it can't grow outside this room,

444
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's only going to get so big

445
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: simply because we don't want to do five projects at once.

446
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 2: I mean, it's as Tad and I say, we would

447
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 2: rather end our career doing twenty twenty five projects, thirty

448
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 2: whatever that number is, I don't know, and be really

449
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: really proud of every one of them, than to do,

450
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: let's call it fifty projects and go. I wish we

451
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: had another shot at that one, you know. You know,

452
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: people's time and resources are so valuable, you know, from

453
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: the client end and also from the amount of effort

454
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: and time that people put into it that it's just

455
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: it's worth giving it everything you got. And I firmly

456
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 2: believe that we're going to be better off in every respect,

457
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: and Tad does too by following that more simplified approach.

458
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what God is here. We don't need

459
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 2: to get crazy. We don't need to We don't need

460
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 2: to change the model too much. We just need help.

461
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: That's well, I think that's a pinch across the industry,

462
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: right with so much construction going on, there's you know,

463
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: the whole industry contracted, and you know, and now there's

464
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: this you know, surplus of work and you know there

465
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: aren't you know staff.

466
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: That's a huge, huge issue, absolutely huge issue. I mean

467
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: it's funny. We had, as you very well know, we

468
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: had fortunate to have Jeff Bradley help us out on

469
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: the bunkers at Landman and that was because you know,

470
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,479
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, you know, it was middle of COVID

471
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: and Bill and Ben as we all did had you know,

472
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: some things that kind of got paused and Jeff needed

473
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: a place to go and thank god we could use it.

474
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 2: And you know, it is hard to find those people,

475
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: and Tad and I try to work really hard to

476
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 2: cultivate a really fun team atmosphere to to you know,

477
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: have guys who want to work with us and want

478
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: to be want to be loyal to us and not

479
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: bounce around. You know, we give a lot of a

480
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: lot of leeway to guys, give them a lot of

481
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: freedom and we're both easy going and and fun to

482
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: work for. And I think that you know, a lot

483
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: of times on golf construction projects, you know, maybe the architect,

484
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: particularly if it's a contractor situation, it's it's they're constricting

485
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: people down, and we like to give freedom. I mean,

486
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: that's how you get that's how you get the best

487
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: product is by having people inject their own uh being

488
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: and creative process into it. And then you, you know,

489
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 2: you react to that. I mean a lot of times

490
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: you have very specific ideas of what you want, but

491
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: you but you still, you know, you give them, give

492
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: them a lot of rope and let them run and

493
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: see what they do. And and then and then you know,

494
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: it's just dirt. You can always change it if you

495
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: need to. But that that, I think that's how all

496
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: the best courses, you know, since sand Hills have gotten

497
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 2: built by doing stuff like that. So that's kind of

498
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: what we try to do.

499
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: And do you have a specific example of that, maybe

500
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: a feature at Landman where you let somebody go and

501
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: it turned out better than what you had maybe planned

502
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: or different, may not better, but you wouldn't know, but

503
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: different than what you had planned, and you ended up

504
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: really liking the final product.

505
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: Well, you know, a great example right off the top

506
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: that comes to mind is the creek baranka feature on

507
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: number three, which people have loved. And that was actually

508
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: Jimmy Craig's idea. We we you know, the bunker placement

509
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: on that hole was, and we knew where the bunkers

510
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: wanted to go, and how the hole wanted to go,

511
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 2: and how the green was going to sit sit down

512
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: on the ground and all that, and Jimmy suggested that,

513
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: and it was it was a great idea, and we

514
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: ran with it. And it was funny because as we

515
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: started going with it, we said, well, let's at this

516
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: point in time, we had Trevor and and another guy

517
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: named Lucas helping us, and and and and John Ellsworth too,

518
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: and and we're like, well, let's all let's connect these things.

519
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: Create one on four that's coming down and and and

520
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: then Lucas actually suggested, why don't we, you know, connect

521
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: him up rather than having the one that's on four

522
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: because Forrest, as you remember, Forrest higher than three and

523
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: all the water comes down through that channel. And he said, well,

524
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: let's connect him up. And that and that was you

525
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: know as well, Yeah, Lucas that that's it, that's that's

526
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 2: exactly what we should do. And so, you know, we

527
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 2: want people to be thinking. We want people to be

528
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: light on their feet and throwing out ideas, and you know,

529
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: we'll take ideas from anywhere. You know, it's ultimately our

530
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: decision to filter out the good ones and the ones

531
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: that might not work and and go with it. But

532
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: that's a I think that's a good example, I.

533
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: Would say, and I hope this is not unfair to say,

534
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: and if it is, please correct me. I kind of

535
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: describe you guys as architecture as maximalist. I think you're

536
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: not afraid to push stuff around and create. And obviously

537
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: you're making a name and I think that's part of

538
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: you know, why you're making a name. You're doing things

539
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: differently than a lot of other people are doing them,

540
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: and you're in this era of minimalist architecture. You know,

541
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: do you get pushedback, you know, in from clients and

542
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: different things when you say, hey, we wanna this is

543
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: what we want to do, And obviously I think it.

544
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: You know, you're you're bringing typically different ideas in a

545
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: different perspective to to projects than maybe the other people

546
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: they're talking to.

547
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: I think we I totally agree with you in that

548
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: I think we do bring a different flair and creative

549
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 2: process than a lot of other firms. I mean, I

550
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: think there's things that we do that are different and unique.

551
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I've always said, you know, if somebody asked

552
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 2: me my opinion of how do you get into golf

553
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: architecture people who are interested in it, what do you recommend?

554
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: Et cetera, et cetera. And one of my key things

555
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: I always say to people is, you know, find your

556
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: own voice. You know, find find your own vision. Because

557
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: I've got news for you. You are not Bill Krer,

558
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: and you're gonna waste your life trying to chase that ghost.

559
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 2: Because if you're simply I love Bill and I love

560
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 2: everything they do. I mean that is the highest praise.

561
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: You know, you can't to find your own own vision,

562
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: your your your own voice. Otherwise if you try to

563
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: be someone else, you can't be. You can't out build

564
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 2: core Bill Core. In other words, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,

565
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: So we have tried to find our own vision, in

566
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 2: our own voice. I think that's something that you're speaking

567
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 2: to and I think that's one of our great strengths. However,

568
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: I would push back a little bit on the maximalist thing,

569
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 2: which may be semantic.

570
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: It's hard one, there's only two, there's only two top two,

571
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: there's no middle ground.

572
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 2: Well, but I think the term the term maximalist to me,

573
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: and it could completely could be a semantic difference in

574
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: how we perceive maximal The word maximalism, The word maximalist

575
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 2: to me implies a little bit of gratuitousness to it.

576
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's if you have that in

577
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 2: your mind, but to me, that word has an implication

578
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: of gratuitousness or maybe artificiality. So I would say that

579
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 2: we are not maximalists in that sense. Like, for instance, Landman.

580
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: Landman was a completely ungolfable terrain in its natural state.

581
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: Looking at it from you know, an overall view, just

582
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: standing on the first tee before a teaspoon of dirt

583
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: was pushed, it looked amazing. But then when you start

584
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: walking on it and you're walking up a four to

585
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 2: one slope to the number one green and your heart's

586
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: pounding out of your chest, you know you can't play

587
00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: golf on that. So we had to do things that

588
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 2: made it golfable in you know, I would say that,

589
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 2: you know, the overall goal with Landman was to not

590
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: move gratuitous amounts of dirt for the just for the

591
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 2: sake of doing it, But it was to move the

592
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: right amount to make it both playable, strategic, and have

593
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: all the shot making characteristics that we wanted. You know,

594
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: we wanted to move not too much, not too low.

595
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: We wanted to move the right amount. And also, you know,

596
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: our first project, Sweden's Cove, was a seventy two acre

597
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: dead flat floodplain that did not drain, so we had

598
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 2: to move a lot of dirt there. Landman, We've had,

599
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 2: you know, just by the nature of the site.

600
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: You know, And I agree, like the one of the

601
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: things about you know, being a younger architect and not

602
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: having huge body of work is like, we haven't seen

603
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: you have a site in great natural sand dunes.

604
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: Now, That's that's what I'm That's what I'm getting around to,

605
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: is that you know, we don't necessarily look at a

606
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: site and say, oh, I would like to knock this

607
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: hill down and just because we can. I mean, that's

608
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: not at all our mindset. You know, we always talk

609
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 2: about every single project. It's our job to figure out

610
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 2: what the question is that this project is asking. Once

611
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 2: you identify that, then you figure out how to answer

612
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: that question and what the how you push forward from

613
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: there And at Landman, in order to build an extraordinary

614
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 2: golf course, it required moving a lot of dirt. I

615
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: compare Landman two really to the original Lido in a

616
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: lot of ways, because the original Lido moved roughly two

617
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: million cubic yards by creating golf on a beautiful but

618
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 2: otherwise ungolfable terrain. Right that site was not golfable prior

619
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: to them doing that. Yeah, okay, and Landman like the

620
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 2: Lido is a just flat out, unabashed tribute to a

621
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 2: certain type of golf. It's it's audacious. It's just an

622
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 2: unapologetically tribute to a certain type of golf. And it

623
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: was manufactured on a great site. But prior to construction

624
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: was was ungoffable. So that was the question, and that

625
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: that's that was the approach we took through Landman. Now

626
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 2: we have a project in Nashville that is it's this

627
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 2: unbelievable rolling terrain and it's much more of a I mean, okay,

628
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 2: a minimalist job. I mean there's stuff where you know,

629
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 2: there's green settings next to little creaks like the project

630
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 2: we were talking about earlier, we're just you hardly move anything.

631
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 2: So and then you know, we have another project which

632
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: I hope can get announced this year. It's truly on

633
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 2: one of the best sites in the world, on a

634
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,439
Speaker 2: seaside site with sand dunes and all that. I mean,

635
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 2: that's just a teaspoonful here and there, you know, so

636
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: you have to you have to roll with the punches.

637
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 2: I mean, every every site is going to have a

638
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 2: different set of demands to deliver the best possible product

639
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 2: to the client into the consumer. And I think that

640
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 2: you know, Tad and I do have a certain fearlessness

641
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: to us in a flare for the dramatic, and a

642
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: willingness to do some things maybe that other people wouldn't

643
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 2: want to do. And I think that that that helps

644
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: us in a lot of ways when we when we

645
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: we see opportunity where maybe others would see a roadblock.

646
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: And I think that's one of our strengths.

647
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: I've something that I've always thought about, not always, but

648
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: you know, recent years have dominated my brain and I

649
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: always think about this and from your perspective as as builders,

650
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: as guys that create stuff is it harder and does

651
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: it require more confidence maybe to build a wild green

652
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: or something that's very understated and know that it's got

653
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: enough going on.

654
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: I think you could argue that both take equal amount

655
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 2: of confidence. There's some really wild grains at Landman, there's

656
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 2: a few, but I think that like the oxygen gets

657
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: taken out of the room by number seven, number four,

658
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: number fifteen, and number seventeen because they're so audacious. That's like,

659
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 2: you know, you forget about you know number number eight,

660
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 2: you know, nine, eleven, twelve, thirteen, you know, then fourteen

661
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: you come to this ver Dan with this gigantic kicker

662
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: which kind of takes your breath away. So you know

663
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: that you have to be confident in your application of

664
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: when when to get a little wild, but also you

665
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: got to know when to pull it back too. And

666
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 2: one thing that I absolutely am very cognizant of and

667
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 2: so is Tad is you know, I don't want to

668
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 2: be nor do do Tad. And I want to be

669
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: put in a box of like, oh those are the

670
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: guys who just they do all the crazy stuff they

671
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: do the wild greens. I mean yeah, I mean sometimes

672
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: but sometimes not. And you know, I want each of

673
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 2: our projects to be kind of like a faberge egg

674
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: for the lack of a better term, where it's just

675
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: it's its own little special thing, and it's each one's different,

676
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: you know, each one is something that we're immensely proud of.

677
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 2: But land Man is not like Red Feather is not

678
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 2: like others. I mean, there's there's greens at Red Feather.

679
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: There's some there's some bold ones, but there's some really

680
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: really just chill kind of lay of the land stuff.

681
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't wait for people to see Red Feather.

682
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: I think it has an awesome mix of greens and

683
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 2: bunkering and interest. I've never really seen anything like it,

684
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 2: and that's an Red Feather is an example of where,

685
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: you know, to get it back to some of the

686
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: earlier comments like that's where you know, I think Tad

687
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 2: and I saw an opportunity where maybe others would would

688
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: have gotten a little scared away. In fact, I was

689
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 2: talking to Tad today, I mean, we almost didn't get

690
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 2: that project permitted because even the engineers just they couldn't

691
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: wrap their head around how we were going to make

692
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 2: this thing work. And I remember Tad talking to the

693
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: guy and finally the engineer was like, oh, yeah, that

694
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: will work. And you know, we have to move one

695
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 2: point three million have to like we will get in

696
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 2: the project will get you know, wouldn't work if we

697
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 2: don't move one point three million cubic yards of dirt

698
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 2: beneath a certain contour to hold a certain volume of

699
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 2: water during a five hundred year storm. We have to

700
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 2: do that, by the law. We have to do that.

701
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: And it's taken a lot of creativity and a lot

702
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 2: of vision and Tad's expertise and just incredible ability to

703
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 2: understand big earth works. You know, in the end product

704
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 2: there is going to be extraordinary and it's it's it's

705
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 2: it's different than land Mane. It's gonna be different than

706
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 2: the one in Nashville, but it's gonna be its own

707
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: special thing.

708
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: Well, I think this is like something with golf architecture. Right,

709
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: we're in this in this period of this dominated by minimalism.

710
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: Right.

711
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: This is obviously with like Bill Bill Corr and Tom Doak,

712
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: and you know they've ushered in. They those guys obviously

713
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: they moved dirt on projects. It's like, you know, not

714
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: every project's just like I found this green here and

715
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: I mowed it out right, they moved earth. But the era,

716
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: this really the last twenty years, has been dominated by

717
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: a singular trend. And I think what what's happened is

718
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: it's kind of created. Like almost everything in the world

719
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: seems to now is like this is good and this

720
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: is bad. I'm on this side. I'm on this side.

721
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: And the reality is if if golf architecture is there

722
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: in art form, there is a lot of room for

723
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: different projects. And from what I understand about the Red

724
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: Feather site was like, you know, it's an area that's

725
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 1: extremely prone to flooding, and it was a very flat

726
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: piece of property. So if you put golf there, it

727
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: just you have to have the necessary features and it takes,

728
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, the skill set to go wander around a

729
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 1: sand dune site and find eighteen holes is a lot

730
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: different than taking a flat, flood ridden area and creating

731
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: eighteen holes, and both deserve some like a real study

732
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: of how it's done, and the skill sets are different,

733
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: Like it's not a matter of narrowing down you know

734
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: what eighteen holes are best, like obviously at sandhills, like

735
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: what of the one hundred and six the one hundred

736
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: and thirty two holes, are the best eighteen right, it

737
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: is how do we make a functional golf course from nothing?

738
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: And like, I think that is it's an interesting thing

739
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: because it's really it's almost you could make an argument

740
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: a more creative process because you're having to imagine something

741
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist in its current state.

742
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 2: I could not agree more. I mean, I think that,

743
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I just I'll go back to our guys,

744
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 2: but I mean, I'm so immensely proud at Landman and

745
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: Red Feather of what they did, you know, to just

746
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 2: pull these features out of the earth through a lot

747
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: of hard work, Like Joe Hancock was out at Redfeather

748
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: and Mark Berger and John Ellsworth and these guys. I mean,

749
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 2: we have to create these channels in places for the

750
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: water to go below a thirty two to twenty nine contour.

751
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 2: And when we first started that project, we didn't really

752
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 2: have a real solid idea of exactly what the look

753
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 2: and feel was going to be. We just knew kind

754
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 2: of had to get this start out and what you know,

755
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: we didn't know exactly what it was going to be,

756
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: but we had the confidence that we as the dirt

757
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 2: came out, we could make it work. And we were

758
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: driving out east of town in Lubbock, there's these just

759
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 2: amazing landforms with these dry creek beds coming through them,

760
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: and these flat top landforms look like maces. I call

761
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 2: them maces. It's like some of the scenes in No

762
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 2: Country for Old Men of that just very start, kind

763
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: of very rugged landscape. And we latched onto that look

764
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 2: and so let's run with that, and the guys created

765
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: these just amazing features. I mean, it looks like the

766
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 2: golf course looks like it was just kind of carved

767
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: out of this rugged West Texas landscape. And the goal

768
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 2: was to like move boatloads of dirt to satisfy the

769
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: permitting requirements, but then sit the golf course down on

770
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: top of that in a minute, old fashioned almost like

771
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 2: we didn't. Does that make sense. I mean, it's like

772
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 2: you move the dirt and then you just set the

773
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: golf course into it, almost as in a minimalist sense.

774
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 2: So the golf course is very ground hugging, very low profile,

775
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 2: very down on the ground, lots of greens where it

776
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 2: just runs right into the fairway. And you know, that's

777
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: been a really a fun thing. And in at land Man,

778
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 2: I mean Tad and I and our team I think

779
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: should be very proud of seeing golf holes where you know,

780
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 2: there were slopes and things going on that prior to

781
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 2: construction weren't there, and how they were able to tie

782
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 2: back into the natural land and make it look like

783
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 2: it was there the whole time it is. That's a

784
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: lot of skill and a lot of creativity by a

785
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: lot of very talented people who made that happen. And

786
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 2: I couldn't be happier with the way those things turned out.

787
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: What are concepts golf and design that you haven't been

788
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: able to do that you'd like to do?

789
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 2: Well, that's an interesting question. I'll tell you about one.

790
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 2: We submitted a plan to Pinehurst in October of twenty

791
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 2: twenty one, and I mean, honestly, I can't believe I'm

792
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 2: even saying this. I mean, there's literally only a handful

793
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 2: of people that know this, but what the hell I mean?

794
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 2: I work To have a chance to work at Pinehurst

795
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 2: would be ultimate dream come true for me. You know,

796
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 2: my whole a lot of the ways I think about

797
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 2: golf architecture came out of Pinehurst Number two and seeing

798
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: that with my dad in two thousand and seven and

799
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: my brother on his seventy fifth birthday trip, and obviously

800
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 2: that was prior to the renovation, but even then, you know,

801
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 2: just the greens and the putting, you know, the short

802
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 2: grass and the contour. It just was really impacted the

803
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: way I thought about things. And to have a chance

804
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 2: to throw some ideas out there at the pit has

805
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 2: been been a thrill and I hope that I hope

806
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 2: that we can do it. We came up with a

807
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 2: concept that I've never seen anywhere, that would be entirely

808
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: unique to the world of golf, that we feel would

809
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 2: be a perfect fit for a place like Pinehurst because

810
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 2: they have these, you know, some really great kind of

811
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,919
Speaker 2: traditional courses. I mean, you know, I'm sure Tom's course

812
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 2: will will be a great addition, and that Bill and

813
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 2: Ben do theirs, I hope they do. That'll be another

814
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 2: great eighteen hole golf course. But our concept was to

815
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 2: take one hundred and forty acres and build five golf

816
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 2: courses on one hundred and forty acres where you could

817
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 2: play a new course each day. And I worked with

818
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 2: Joe McDonald to do all these amazing renderings and flyovers

819
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 2: and all this stuff. So one day you're playing this

820
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 2: way on the purple routing and you know there's greens everywhere.

821
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 2: Sometimes the greens only play for the red routing, and

822
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 2: sometimes you only play for the purple routing and only

823
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 2: play for the green routing. And but sometimes you know

824
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 2: there's double greens that you you know, you might use

825
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 2: one side of the surface or another at any rate.

826
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 2: I mean it was you know, I would like for

827
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: us to have an opportunity to basically have an ode

828
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 2: to Pinehurst number two that is like five Pinehurst number

829
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 2: two's on a different day with just different stuff going

830
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: on all over the place.

831
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 1: So there'd be ninety holes on one hundred and forty acres.

832
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 2: There'd be not great at math. Yeah, that sounds right.

833
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: The only reason I know that is because of the

834
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 1: Bob Hope used to be five rounds and I could,

835
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: I could do that quick. But then there'd be you know,

836
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: there'd be some there'd be way more than eighteen greens,

837
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, and different series of routings. But there wouldn't

838
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: be ninety greens obviously.

839
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: No, no, exactly no, So one day, so one just

840
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 2: like go ahead.

841
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 1: One thing that I obviously you'd have increased maintenance costs

842
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,919
Speaker 1: from the additional greens. But one thing that pops into

843
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: my mind is the idea of how you could do

844
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: maintenance work on areas that weren't being used on the

845
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: day's routing and preparation for the next day. Yeah, I

846
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 1: mean there's like a lot of utility in that sense.

847
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 1: Like that's just one area facet of this that jumps

848
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: to mind. It's a very interesting idea, and you know,

849
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: like the other question I'd have is like, is this

850
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: is this a better idea for a resort where somebody's

851
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: coming to play one time? Obviously they could play the

852
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: same course five days in a row and be different

853
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 1: every time. Or is this a path? Is this a path?

854
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: Like this type of idea a really intriguing idea for

855
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 1: private clubs or municipal golf courses.

856
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: Well, I think it could definitely work really well in

857
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 2: a private club aspect as well. But you know, our

858
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 2: thought was that it was the absolute perfect thing for

859
00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 2: Pinehurst because they have, you know, a lot of golf courses.

860
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 2: They've got nine now they're going to have ten golf

861
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 2: courses where it's a very similar experience and each time,

862
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 2: and you know, there was a sort of a utilitarian

863
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: aspect to it, and that it only takes up one

864
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 2: hundred and forty acres, So it's not it's not spread

865
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 2: over two three hundred acres. It's it's more compact. It's

866
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 2: you know, the courses are ranged from six thousand to

867
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 2: sixty five hundred yards. And going back to our original

868
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 2: conversation of how Sweetens has affected how we think about

869
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 2: things in the immersive nature of golf. You know, this

870
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 2: is a very immersive thing in that Let's say you're

871
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 2: playing this blue course one day and you're looking over

872
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,439
Speaker 2: and you're going, God, I would I would die to get,

873
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 2: you know, to play that one, and it just it

874
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 2: just sets this hook. We're all cracked. We're all we're

875
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 2: all crack addicts basically, you know, you know, you once

876
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 2: you get see some think cool, you want to experience

877
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 2: it again. You want to see the next thing. You

878
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: just couldn't get enough of it. It's like, well, I've

879
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,919
Speaker 2: got to stay an extra day or And my thought

880
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 2: was that people would be like it would extend the

881
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 2: length of their visits because Okay, this year, i can

882
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 2: play the red and the purple in the yellow, and

883
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonna stay an extra two and a half days

884
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 2: to do that. And then next year I'll come back,

885
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 2: and and it's like it creates a repeat visit thing

886
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 2: because Okay, let's say you go to Pinehurst for four

887
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 2: or five days. I mean, you're definitely gonna play number two,

888
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: You're gonna play number four, you're gonna play number ten,

889
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 2: play the core Crenchhall. You know. Then it's like, Okay, well,

890
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: I've got to come back next year. My buddy played

891
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: the Purple one on Wednesday and he said it was unbelievable,

892
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 2: So I gotta play that one. So it creates a

893
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 2: desire to return. And I think it would be great

894
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 2: for him, not only just from a golf standpoint, have

895
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 2: something different than what they have, something that at the

896
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: same wild still while being different, is still rooted in

897
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 2: the fundamentals of what Pinehurst is. I mean, it needs

898
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: to be a very Pinehursty looking golf course. I mean,

899
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 2: I'm not we're not reinventing. We're not reinventing the wheel

900
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: on that. But but also from an operational standpoint, it's

901
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 2: like you're I mean, I don't why wouldn't you, I

902
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:25,760
Speaker 2: mean you would, And can you imagine how much merch

903
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 2: they would sell? My god, I mean, you know, five

904
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 2: different courses.

905
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's like, you know, one of

906
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: the things that I find frustrated with golf architecture is,

907
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: you know, architect building architecture, you know, painting, sculpting, all

908
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: these different art forms, right, and building architecture and golf

909
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: architecture are kind of to one and the same. One

910
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: of the things that's frustrating if you if you consider

911
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: this in our form, is that, like you know, in

912
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: order for work to get done, it has to be

913
00:56:56,120 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: commissioned by someone. Like you know, if if I'm a famous,

914
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: if I'm a painter, I can just paint whatever comes

915
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 1: to mind, right, and then it's out in the world

916
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 1: and people purchase it.

917
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 2: Right.

918
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: The thing with golf architecture is like there has to

919
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: be somebody on the other side that said yes, and like,

920
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, this is this is an example of an

921
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: out of the box idea. This is something that hasn't

922
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: been done before. But in order for it to be done,

923
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: someone has to come right the twenty whatever million dollar check,

924
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the cost of this of a project.

925
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: You know, obviously all that change is based off of

926
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: where the land is, where you know, what the soils

927
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: are all that, but let's just say twenty million dollars.

928
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: Someone has to write the check for the twenty million.

929
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't just get to get done like a lot

930
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: of other art forms. Like I have this cool idea,

931
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it, and that's I think, how

932
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: a lot of famous art happens. It's like, oh, I

933
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: want to do this. I'm going to write this song,

934
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm going to do it in my

935
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: basement and this is and then it becomes famous. Like

936
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: with golf architecture, there has to be the other side

937
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: that accepts it. And you know, this is like it's

938
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: a very I mean, it's an intriguing idea. I think

939
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 1: like it adds variety, like day to day variety. You

940
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 1: get different golf courses, right. But then furthermore, it would

941
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: actually make running the golf course the operational side of

942
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: thing things. Once you understood how to set each course

943
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: up right, it would make it easier because you'd always

944
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: be ahead, as opposed to like we need to Hey,

945
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: we have a shotgun tomorrow, we have to get all

946
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: the greens mode in the dark, Like, oh, we can

947
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: do this the night before.

948
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. I mean it operationally, it does

949
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 2: make a ton of sense. And I just I think

950
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 2: a lot about what would I like to see if

951
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 2: I go somewhere. And I love going to Pinehurst, and

952
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 2: like I said, it's one of my favorite places in

953
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: the world. But you know, there's a lot of stuff

954
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 2: there that's I think they need something that's a little

955
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 2: bit more outside the box. I mean, they've had so

956
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 2: much success with the Cradle and and everything, you know,

957
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 2: all the things they've done in the last ten years,

958
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 2: and this just takes a step further in my mind,

959
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 2: and to get to do something like that would be amazing.

960
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 2: And again it's on one hundred and forty acres, so

961
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 2: it's not like we're occupying massive amounts of terrain. These

962
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 2: are courses that would be able to be played you know,

963
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 2: pretty quickly, uh you know, thirty or six thousand to

964
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 2: sixty five hundred yards, which is fun too. I mean

965
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 2: that's kind of a different thing, you know.

966
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: So where I'd push where i'd push back on Like

967
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: you know, like when this guy announced a lot, I

968
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,439
Speaker 1: think like obviously Will Bardwell was I think championing you guys.

969
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: I wonder if he knew the plan. But I think

970
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: like one of the things that I thought a lot

971
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: about with like golf resorts is you know, Pinehurst is

972
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 1: in the position of like say, like a Microsoft if

973
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: you think about it in terms of like the golf landscape,

974
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 1: right you know, in a way, they're in the position

975
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: because of a risk taken in nineteen one hundred by

976
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: Toughs to build destination winter golf in rural North Carolina.

977
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: I mean that was their big risk, right you know,

978
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: like everybody has to take a risk at some point, Right,

979
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 1: Mike Kaiser hired David McClay kidd in a way at

980
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: that point, making that taking that risk building a golf

981
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 1: course in remote Oregon on the coastline now means that

982
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: he doesn't really have to take risks because he's you know,

983
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: proven himself. Pinehurst, it goes all the way back to

984
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred. They have all this history, right in a way,

985
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: they take a risk so long ago, and obviously like

986
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: this on this is also why innovation always tends to

987
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: happen outside of the establishment, right you know, in a way,

988
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,919
Speaker 1: like your all day pass at Sweeten's Cove is an

989
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: innovative form of golf, and it happened outside the like

990
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: outside of like a traditional golf landscape because I think

991
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: almost in a way those resorts think of like, we

992
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: can't screw this up. They're in these like if if something,

993
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: if they try something innovative and it screws up, everybody

994
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: knows that is a cossal failure versus like I build

995
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: this golf course in in wherever and it doesn't work fully,

996
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: nobody knows, right. I just like that's like I would

997
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: think the tip of the opposite side of of like

998
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 1: doing it at a resort. But you know, like I'm

999
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: super intrigued and from like a a golf architecture moving

1000
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: forward stamp point. I think it's like extremely important for

1001
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 1: somebody to be pushing new ideas. And I think there

1002
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 1: are architects that do push new ideas, you know, obviously,

1003
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 1: like a lot of architects push new ideas. But you know,

1004
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 1: the frustrating thing is it's on the developer side of

1005
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: the foot to say, Okay, we don't need eighteen holes

1006
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: of championship golf. We can do this different thing.

1007
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you have to have the medici, you know,

1008
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 2: to to fund the fund the artist. I mean I've

1009
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 2: thought about that a lot. I mean, in one of

1010
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 2: my biggest frustrations, you know, prior to us quote unquote

1011
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 2: making it. I think we've made it now, But in

1012
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 2: the days where we were having a hard time, it was,

1013
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 2: you know, immensely frustrating that I couldn't go out, like

1014
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 2: you said, and go down into the basement and write

1015
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 2: the song. I couldn't. I have all these ideas, you know,

1016
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 2: Tad and I have these ideas, we have these concepts,

1017
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 2: these things we want to do, and to have to

1018
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 2: rely on someone else is tough, you know, my my,

1019
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 2: You know, the resorts are corporate and down the middle,

1020
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 2: and a lot of times I get that, but hey,

1021
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 2: at the same time, I'd say, the proofs in the pudding.

1022
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 2: I mean, we deliver and you know Landman basically sold

1023
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 2: out like that, Sweeten's Cove sells out in five to

1024
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 2: ten minutes. Red Feather is going to be very successful.

1025
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 2: You know. We take pride in our in our courses working.

1026
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 2: And the other thing too, is is I mean, you know,

1027
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 2: I'm remembering my quote from your podcast that we did

1028
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 2: when you know, the third podcast. You know, when I

1029
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 2: find it's like, if we finally get this opportunity, I mean,

1030
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 2: we are going to be like crazy, you know, I mean,

1031
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 2: if we got that we are not fucking it up. Period. Okay,

1032
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 2: we are going to deliver. And you know they've got

1033
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 2: nine hundred and something makers. I hope Tom calls me.

1034
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 2: I mean, there's plenty of room to do it in.

1035
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: Terms of like when you look at when you look back,

1036
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: when you think about past projects, you know, like I

1037
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 1: do this all the time. I think about like what

1038
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: can I do better? What can I do this? Like

1039
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: I think every you know, every off season, you think

1040
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: about your favorite sporting athletes. It's like, well, man, if

1041
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 1: this guy could develop a jumper, he'd be lights out.

1042
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 1: Do you do you do that? As architects? Do you

1043
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: guys ever talk about like think like, you know, what

1044
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: if we could get a little bit better at this,

1045
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 1: or we could do this a little different. And has

1046
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: there been an instance of like you've you've made a

1047
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: slight tweak to the way you do things that have

1048
01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: led to improvement, or there are things that you know, hey,

1049
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 1: we should get a little bit better at this. I'm

1050
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: just curious nobody ever talks about this stuff. And I

1051
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you.

1052
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, I mean I think that, uh, you know,

1053
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 2: Tad and I are both inquisitive people, and we talk

1054
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 2: all the time, but just me and him. I mean

1055
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 2: I talked to him an hour or two every day.

1056
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 2: And one of the things that comes up in conversation is,

1057
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 2: you know, we'll say something like, I really learned a

1058
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 2: lot on that project. You know, we learned something there.

1059
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 2: Every single project teaches you new lessons. I mean, we've

1060
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 2: learned new lessons at Red Feather, and you learn everyone

1061
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 2: teaches you new things, and and you know, I think

1062
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 2: we're always trying to We don't ever want to be

1063
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 2: copying anybody else, So we're constantly kind of probing at

1064
01:05:53,720 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 2: the edges of you know, doing new things, new expressions

1065
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:04,479
Speaker 2: of what we're what we're doing. But at the same time,

1066
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 2: we never want it to be We never wanted to

1067
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 2: not work or feel contrived. I mean, so there's a

1068
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 2: there's a balance with that, and I mean there's a

1069
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 2: few things were you know, maybe yeah, you know, maybe

1070
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 2: we should have done this a little bit different, and

1071
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 2: you learn from it. But yeah, I mean that that's

1072
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 2: that's part of the artistic process. I mean, it just

1073
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 2: is work because we're kind, you know, as much as

1074
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 2: a critic, you know, might look at something that we

1075
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 2: do and say, oh, you should have done this or that.

1076
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,959
Speaker 2: I mean, I can promise you we have gone through

1077
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 2: all those conversations a million times over, and you know,

1078
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,919
Speaker 2: we're always trying to do it, you know, like I said,

1079
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,720
Speaker 2: a new look, a new a new style. I don't

1080
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 2: This is kind of a contradictory comment.

1081
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 1: But.

1082
01:06:56,720 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 2: I want people to be able to walk onto a

1083
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 2: King Collins golf course in fifty or one hundred years

1084
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 2: and say, there's something about it. This is a King Collins. Okay.

1085
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I really don't want them

1086
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 2: to just be able to look at it and go, oh,

1087
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 2: that's a King Collins. Does that make sense.

1088
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1089
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 2: I don't want to be I don't ever want us

1090
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 2: to be repetitive. I want each of our clients to

1091
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 2: get a new, little special present from us. Each one

1092
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 2: is a new little gift, and we have to find

1093
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 2: a new way each time to create that little flare,

1094
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 2: this little thing. We've got this little project going on

1095
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 2: right now, and Mark Berger built this cool little role

1096
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 2: that's unlike any role we've had in any of our

1097
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 2: other Greens, And I was like, God, that is so badass,

1098
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 2: in like, that's part of the little gift to the client,

1099
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 2: Like that's something we haven't seen before on one of

1100
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 2: our courses, and so each every one you're and it

1101
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 2: might be something small like that, it might be something bigger.

1102
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 2: But every time you're trying to find something, find a

1103
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 2: new way, if that makes sense.

1104
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: Last question before we get you out of here, where

1105
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: would you like to see golf architecture go? I think

1106
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 1: we're obviously at a point there's a lot of work,

1107
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 1: there's a lot of projects going on, and a little

1108
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 1: bit of an inflection point. As you know, there is

1109
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: a new crop of yourself, included architects getting a chance.

1110
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: You know, what general direction would you like to see

1111
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: architecture go? Or one direction?

1112
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 2: You know? I think you know one thing Tad and

1113
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 2: I talked about in twenty ten. It's hard to believe

1114
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 2: when we started King Collins was it. You know, if

1115
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 2: we can just get one in the ground, we can

1116
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 2: we can build on that up. And the point we

1117
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 2: were making that was in the middle of a very

1118
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 2: bad recession downturning golf, was that, you know, golf is

1119
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 2: gonna is gonna be down, but we felt like if

1120
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,799
Speaker 2: we can come out of it with something in the ground,

1121
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:21,480
Speaker 2: with a new wrinkle, you know, we'll we'll get opportunities.

1122
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 2: And we knew also at the same time that there

1123
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 2: was a glut of a lot of very uninteresting, uninspiring

1124
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 2: golf out there, and that this whole movement and I think,

1125
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 2: you know, you've ridden this wave. I mean, no laying up.

1126
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 2: I mean we've ridden it. That this new interest in

1127
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 2: golf is reactionary towards again, sorry, this earlier era of

1128
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 2: very boring, kind of punch the ticket kind of stuff.

1129
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:54,479
Speaker 2: And so you know, we could kind of feel that,

1130
01:09:55,080 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 2: and there is to me still and I talked to

1131
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 2: some golf developers about this, there is not a not

1132
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:11,959
Speaker 2: yet satisfied desire for new and compelling and interesting golf.

1133
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 2: The population will still go and seek that out. And

1134
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 2: you know a lot of times maybe that is refurbishing

1135
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 2: something that was old, or finding opportunities in underserved golf populations.

1136
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of great golf cities out

1137
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 2: there that essentially are underserved. I mean, look at Atlanta.

1138
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 2: I mean, for instance, Okay, there's tons of golfers there,

1139
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:41,600
Speaker 2: there's compelling.

1140
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 1: Ground around there.

1141
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 2: There's lots of golf courses, but none of them are

1142
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,679
Speaker 2: real good, at least the ones you can get on.

1143
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 2: And it's like if somebody built an amazing public facility there,

1144
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 2: it would print money. I mean, there's still going to

1145
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 2: be opportunities like that. So I think that it's to

1146
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 2: get to your question, I mean, I think it's kind

1147
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 2: of just resetting the old ways and and and just

1148
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 2: finding finding the right opportunities. And there's there's plenty of

1149
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:17,439
Speaker 2: opportunities in these in places too, to go where where

1150
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 2: you have this inverse relationship of low quality golf to

1151
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 2: high demand, and that's not satisfied yet. So I remain

1152
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 2: bullish about prospects for the future. And and and there's

1153
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 2: a lot of young people are gonna get to do

1154
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:39,640
Speaker 2: meet things and that that's great.

1155
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 1: All right, Rob, that's uh, it's a pleasure having you on.

1156
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: We're gonna have you on in a shorter time duration

1157
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: than than last you know, the five years or four

1158
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:53,240
Speaker 1: years in between episodes.

1159
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, it was great to talk to you again.

1160
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 2: Can't wait to can't wait to see you again. Sam.

1161
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait to see you. It's spent too long,

1162
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 1: it has and we'll keep in touch. But people can

1163
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: find you. You're on Twitter and Instagram, and then you

1164
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:09,799
Speaker 1: have your website, King Collins It's at Kingcollins goolf Design dot.

1165
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 2: Com, Kingcollinsgolf dot com, and then King Collins Golf on

1166
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 2: Twitter and Instagram.

1167
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 1: So thanks Rob and we'll talk soon.

1168
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:18,559
Speaker 2: Awesome.

1169
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 1: Thank you Andy, Thank you for listening to another edition

1170
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 1: of the Friday Podcast. As a quick reminder, we have

1171
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: event registration. As I mentioned before in this episode, event

1172
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:45,840
Speaker 1: registration went live for Club TFE members this week, but

1173
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 1: for the general public if you are not a Club

1174
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 1: TFU member, they will It will be up on Monday.

1175
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: So the events that are open as as it stands

1176
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 1: now are the Boomerang at Seoul Park, the Ill Hants

1177
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: redesigned Soul Park in Ohi, California. Wonderful place to spend

1178
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:09,799
Speaker 1: a day playing golf, really laid back event. The Steam

1179
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 1: Shovel at Lawsonia that is on that is in mid

1180
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:19,679
Speaker 1: May on a Saturday in mid May. Fantastic William Lankford

1181
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:23,679
Speaker 1: Theodore Moreau Golf Course, one of my favorite golf courses

1182
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 1: in the Midwest. And then we also have Hollywood The

1183
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 1: Blockbuster at Hollywood Golf Club, widely considered Walter Travis's best

1184
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: golf course. That's in New Jersey, and that's in June

1185
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 1: as well as the Dog Bowl at Yale, so at

1186
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:44,639
Speaker 1: the SETH Rayner, C B. McDonald, you know a place

1187
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 1: that you kind of have to see to believe how

1188
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 1: big and bold the architecture is at Yale. The dog

1189
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:56,639
Speaker 1: Bowl will be the Saturday after the Blockbuster, which is

1190
01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 1: in kind of the mid to end of June, so

1191
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 1: that will be all those will be available to everybody

1192
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 1: on Monday, January twenty third. So thank you for listening

1193
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,040
Speaker 1: to Friday Egg. We'll be back next week. We've got

1194
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 1: some new Podza in the hopper and look forward to

1195
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 1: talking to you guys again soon