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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney along

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Speaker 2: with Tom Keene. Join us each day for insight from

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Speaker 2: the best in economics, geopolitics, finance, and investment. You can

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Speaker 2: also watch the show live on YouTube. Visit the Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: anywhere else you listen, and as always on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business App. Let's check

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Speaker 2: in with somebody who knows what's going on out there

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Speaker 2: in the Market's Christina Hooper. She's a chief global market

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Speaker 2: strategist for Investco. Christina, it's been a busy week here.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we've had a lot of central bank movement here.

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Speaker 2: We've had a lot of IPO markets or activity in

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Speaker 2: the markets as well. Let's start with the Federal Reserve

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Speaker 2: here and some of the other central banks. Quite frankly,

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Speaker 2: what did you take from the Fed and the other

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Speaker 2: central banks?

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Speaker 3: Commentary this week?

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Speaker 4: Paul, we are headed to an easier environment for monetary policy,

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Speaker 4: and as I think you know, I've been a big

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Speaker 4: believer that monetary policy has and will continue to drive markets,

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Speaker 4: and that's why I think we've had such a good week.

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Speaker 4: Even in terms of IPOs, Sentiment has gotten more positive

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Speaker 4: because we know the end is insight and that we're

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Speaker 4: going to start to see rate cuts. In fact, the

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Speaker 4: Swiss National Bank gave us a nice surprise this week,

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Speaker 4: our first present from major developed central banks in terms

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Speaker 4: of cutting. But this is just the beginning, and this

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Speaker 4: is so different than the environment we saw in twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty two, where we had surprise rate hikes, a whole

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Speaker 4: flurry of them, so much so that the World Bank

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Speaker 4: warned in September of twenty twenty two that this synchronized

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Speaker 4: tightening was something we hadn't seen in many decades. Well,

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Speaker 4: now we're getting to see what I think will be

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Speaker 4: synchronized cuts over the course of this year, which should

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Speaker 4: be very supportive for markets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, could you talk a little bit more about what

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Speaker 1: you see as the markets play here, because we've talked

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Speaker 1: so frequently on this radio program about how frothy equity

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Speaker 1: markets are getting. So where does an investor go here?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think an investor needs to be well diversified.

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Speaker 4: We shouldn't ignore the US, but we do know that

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Speaker 4: valuations are much higher here than elsewhere, and so this

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Speaker 4: is a great opportunity to sharpen pencils and look around

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Speaker 4: the world for potential, and that potential can come from Japan. Interestingly,

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Speaker 4: their central bag is in a different place, just beginning tightening,

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Speaker 4: normalizing monetary policy. But that is a vote of confidence

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Speaker 4: in the Japanese economy, and I think well really spur

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Speaker 4: attention more investor interest in the Japanese stock market. Emerging

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Speaker 4: markets valuation opportunity abound, and in particular Asia em looks

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Speaker 4: attractive right now. There's growth potential there as well as valuations,

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Speaker 4: and against supportive monetary policy, we're likely to see a

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Speaker 4: weakening US dollar, which should help going outside the US.

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Speaker 4: But again there's still opportunity in the US, so investors

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Speaker 4: shouldn't ignore it, and I shouldn't be just talking about equities.

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Speaker 4: There are opportunities in fixed income. We're in a different

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Speaker 4: place than than where we've been for years in terms

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Speaker 4: of yield. We had lived in a yield scarce environment.

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Speaker 4: We're not there. I wouldn't say it's a golden age

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Speaker 4: of fixed income. But fixed income looks very attractive, and

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Speaker 4: there are a whole variety of areas that we can

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Speaker 4: choose from to make a diversified portfolio. Investment great credit

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Speaker 4: looks very attractive to me, but certainly opportunities in emerging markets,

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Speaker 4: high yield municipals. Again, there is so much an abundance.

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Speaker 4: So if you think about twenty twenty two as an

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Speaker 4: anis horribilis for markets, I think that it's something different,

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Speaker 4: a very different today and much better environment.

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Speaker 2: I kin I want to go to fixed income because

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering. I'm just looking at my screen here, Christina,

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Speaker 2: and I can just go over to a two year

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Speaker 2: United States Treasury and get four points six percent. That

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Speaker 2: seems pretty darn good. I mean, is that the trade

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Speaker 2: in fixing com or do I try to take some

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Speaker 2: credit risk here and think about investment grade credit or

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Speaker 2: maybe even what really has been the best performer in

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Speaker 2: fixing them, which is high yield.

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Speaker 3: How do I think about credit risk?

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm a big believer in diversification and thinking for

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Speaker 4: the longer term. I don't think it should be about treasuries.

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Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of opportunity moving out on

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Speaker 4: the risk spectrum, investment grade credit to me is a

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Speaker 4: sweet spot. But certainly high yield has been a strong performer.

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Speaker 4: And given what we're seeing in the US economy, how

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Speaker 4: it looks like a softer landing than we had died.

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Speaker 4: I think that makes the case for moving out having

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Speaker 4: exposure to high yield. Don't forget Muni's where there's some

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Speaker 4: very attractive yeals right now. So there is a lot

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Speaker 4: of opportunity. And of course don't forget emerging market. It's

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Speaker 4: dead in there.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything that you like in particular in emerging markets?

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Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned earlier Asia, but anything in Latin America,

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Speaker 1: anything in Africa.

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Speaker 4: Well, certainly Mexico benefits from a US economy, and so

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Speaker 4: I think what we're going to see in the US

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Speaker 4: is a pleasant surprise this year. I've been a believer

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Speaker 4: that we'd see a bumpy landing. I don't think it's

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Speaker 4: going to be as bumpy as I had anticipated, and

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Speaker 4: that should be good news for country like Mexico.

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Speaker 3: All right, Christina, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Christina Hooper. She is the chief Global market strategist for Investco.

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Speaker 2: Big Week in Technology let's get a couple of our

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Speaker 2: top technology analysts.

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Speaker 3: We got them together here on a Rock.

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Speaker 2: Na joins us via zoom from Chicago, and Man Deep

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Speaker 2: saying he's here in a Bloomberg interactor broker's studio on Rock.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with you here. I want to start with

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Speaker 2: Apple here. The more I read about this, I'm just

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Speaker 2: you know about Apple have facing these anti trust suits

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Speaker 2: both here in the US and abroad, have some regulatory challenges.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure if this is a Microsoft thing from

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Speaker 2: kind of the nineties whereby I was kind of a

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Speaker 2: casting a pall over the stock that just couldn't get

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Speaker 2: out of or is it something that this story can

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Speaker 2: power through. What's the early read when you talked to

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Speaker 2: investors these days?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I mouse confess I was surprised by

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Speaker 5: the stock reaction yesterday. I mean, everybody knew this was

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Speaker 5: going to happen, so why the surprise And that was

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Speaker 5: a bit confusing. But having said that, you know, Apple

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Speaker 5: generates so much for a cash flow. It is truly

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Speaker 5: the bohemoth when it comes to their operating system, and

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Speaker 5: people are taking shots at it and this is not

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Speaker 5: going to end and it's a big overhang for the

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Speaker 5: stock over the next Cinnicks several years. You know, this

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Speaker 5: is not going to go through in the next six

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Speaker 5: months or twelve months. This is a multi year problem now,

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Speaker 5: I guess.

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Speaker 1: Mandy, could you talk a little bit about another issue

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Speaker 1: that Apple's been facing. It's had a string of pretty

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Speaker 1: bad news about where it is on AI. We have

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Speaker 1: these headlines that just have crossed that Apples and talks

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Speaker 1: to use bydos Ai and it's Chinese iPhones. You know,

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Speaker 1: we had this scoop earlier about the potential tie up

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Speaker 1: with Google for AI. I mean, it doesn't look like

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Speaker 1: it's really anywhere and the thing that is most hot

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Speaker 1: among investors, I.

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Speaker 6: Won't characterize it that way. I think in the end,

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Speaker 6: Jenni is still so early that you know, when we

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Speaker 6: think about who is the real beneficiary, obviously it's Nvidia,

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Speaker 6: and when it comes to on device Jenni, which is

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Speaker 6: where Apple plays in, nobody is a standout. Yes, Google

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Speaker 6: has a model, and obviously Apple is talking about leveraging

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Speaker 6: Google Gemini. But maybe it's a sound strategy to have

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Speaker 6: a Chinese vendor provide the LM for the Chinese phones,

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Speaker 6: because when it comes to LM chatbot functionality. It's all

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Speaker 6: about the local language, the local knowledge that the LLLM embeds,

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Speaker 6: and it may actually turn out to be a good

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Speaker 6: strategy to use local llms wherever Apple has an install base.

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Speaker 2: LLM definition Large Language model, which I know that because

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Speaker 2: I read the research coming from nDEP and on a

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Speaker 2: rock an rag another Apple issue here, and then maybe

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Speaker 2: we can broad it out a little bit. But again

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Speaker 2: I think I probably speak for most Apple investors is

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Speaker 2: I'm still trying to get my head around China. What

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Speaker 2: is the risk there for me China, both from a

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Speaker 2: demand for my products in China and maybe to a

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Speaker 2: lesser extent to supply chain, But that supply chain issue

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Speaker 2: still on the table. Where are you where? Where's the

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Speaker 2: street on kind of sussing out the China risk for Apple.

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Speaker 5: So when you look at you know, Apple, let's over

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Speaker 5: a ten year history. It really made inroads in the

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Speaker 5: US and the Western world, controlling market share. But the

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Speaker 5: next big market is China and that's they were doing well.

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Speaker 5: The phone came out last year. It really underscored that

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Speaker 5: there was refresh cycle for that particular phone that hasn't

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Speaker 5: happened in years. Consumer weakness in China, and Apple's just

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Speaker 5: losing market share at this point in terms of you know,

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Speaker 5: every quarter when they come out, and it's been a

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Speaker 5: very tough market. I don't see that changing at least

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Speaker 5: this year. They really need a catalyst to really go

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Speaker 5: out and say that, you know, we can we can

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Speaker 5: really work in China. Maybe the LLM, maybe the bartorship

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Speaker 5: with Baido is one of them. But having said that,

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Speaker 5: I don't see any chances that they're going to have

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Speaker 5: a big rebound in China at least this year, barning.

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Speaker 1: It out a little bit. Another really big tech story

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Speaker 1: this week is the Reddit IPO. I mean, that's gone

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Speaker 1: incredibly well. Mandy, canase start with you just to talk

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Speaker 1: about what your read is on how enthusiastic investors have

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Speaker 1: been for this, and like, do you think that this

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Speaker 1: is really an AI play? Paul is skeptical.

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Speaker 6: So, I mean, as I mentioned yesterday when I was

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Speaker 6: on your show, that look, Reddit has got something unique

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Speaker 6: when it comes to the user data and you know,

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Speaker 6: having the wide breadth of online communities, and that is

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Speaker 6: I think, really something that stands out versus other social

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Speaker 6: media platforms which are far bigger than Reddit. So the

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Speaker 6: criticism that I get from investors is it's an eighteen

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Speaker 6: year old company that it's not profitable, and for the

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Speaker 6: first ten years of its existence it didn't even have

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Speaker 6: an ADS model. So it's really in the last five

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Speaker 6: years they've started layering ADS and the IPO is coming

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Speaker 6: at a good time with this whole JENNYI wave because

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Speaker 6: everybody needs to train their models and if you're looking

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Speaker 6: for tech's corpus, Reddit is the go to place. So

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Speaker 6: to my mind, any product with stickiness where users come

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Speaker 6: to your platform every day, and in reddits case, they

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Speaker 6: need to boost their daily active users. Their monthly active

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Speaker 6: users is far higher than their daily active users. If

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Speaker 6: they're able to execute on that, I think they'll do

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Speaker 6: quite well in terms of the first six months of

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Speaker 6: the IPO.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you were dead on yesterday.

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Speaker 2: You're bullsh yesterday you're against my skepticism here. Stock rallied

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Speaker 2: just big time there, So good news for the redifilks,

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Speaker 2: good news for the IPO market, even after we had

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Speaker 2: that astera of the day before. Also a big aiplan

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Speaker 2: net stock is training really well on the IPO market.

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Speaker 2: Hey Anna Rod, I think you know the name that

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Speaker 2: I know you've been panning the table on a lot.

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Speaker 2: Is Microsoft here? What's the latest call here?

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Speaker 4: On?

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Speaker 2: Microsoft is still firmly in that magnificent I don't know

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Speaker 2: whether it's five or seven, what it is these days,

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Speaker 2: but what's the call here?

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Speaker 5: I think in the software world, if you want to

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Speaker 5: just pick one company that is truly exposed to AI

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Speaker 5: in the most direct way, it is Microsoft right now.

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Speaker 5: And I don't see anything changes. I'm actually surprised they

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Speaker 5: can go out and pays sic center fifteen million and

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Speaker 5: hire so many people and nobody says anything about it.

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Speaker 5: I mean, maybe this is the new way of acquiring companies.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it is remarkable the amount of money they're

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Speaker 5: spending on both on expanding their data centers for cloud

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Speaker 5: as well as AI. I see them, you know, differentiating

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Speaker 5: their more compare to others over the next few years.

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Speaker 1: But I guess one thing, can we just can I

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Speaker 1: just keep with this point any ark, because with Microsoft

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Speaker 1: they're spread across so many different areas. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: start to feel like that old anti trust sort of

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Speaker 1: vibe is starting to come back for Microsoft, that regulators

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Speaker 1: might start getting really really worried.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, as soon as you get a decent amount of

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Speaker 5: free cash flow. You will see the regulators come in.

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Speaker 5: But I mean, this is nothing that they haven't dealt

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Speaker 5: with in the past. There's not one tech company right

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Speaker 5: now that's not dealing with them, and I don't think

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Speaker 5: that's going to change.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it stocks up. I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 2: it's a three point two trillion dollar market cap company.

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Speaker 3: It's just amazing.

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Speaker 2: Year to date, the stocks up fourteen percent, trailling twelve months,

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Speaker 2: up sixty percent pe on the June twenty four it's thirty.

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Speaker 3: Six times, you know. But you know a lot of

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Speaker 3: folks will tell you, hey, we'll grow into that. All right.

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Speaker 2: Mandy, you cover so much in the tech space. What's

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Speaker 2: your top idea here? What are you guys talking about

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Speaker 2: the most these days?

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Speaker 6: I mean, right now, our top focus idea is Alphabet

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Speaker 6: because all the criticism they've been getting and you know

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Speaker 6: the fact that everyone is talking about them losing share

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Speaker 6: and search. We got one validation that there are no

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Speaker 6: more behind in terms of large anglid model race with

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Speaker 6: Apple considering you know, Google Gemini to be the model

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Speaker 6: and not Open AI or any other models out there.

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Speaker 6: And look, when it comes to search, I think Google

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Speaker 6: has the best platform when it comes to add tech

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Speaker 6: and time and again we see that. You know, with

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Speaker 6: other social media platforms, they're not able to monetize their

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Speaker 6: user base and engagement as well as Google does. And

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Speaker 6: you see that with Reddit, you see that with Twitter.

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Speaker 6: That's why Google search is so unique, because they're able

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Speaker 6: to monetize it far better than everyone else. So I'm

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Speaker 6: in the camp that they will hold on to their

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Speaker 6: search share. In fact, the search market will grow as

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Speaker 6: a result of the large anglid models, and Google will

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Speaker 6: be a beneficiary.

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Speaker 2: All right, Google, googg I'm sorry. Goog l is a

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Speaker 2: ticker for the pros out there. It's got a market

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Speaker 2: cap at one point eight billion dollars.

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Speaker 3: The stuck is trillion. Thank you very much for that correction.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. You even beat out Rich Truman on that.

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Speaker 2: Stocks up five percent year to date, up forty two

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Speaker 2: percent trailing twelve month. Anurag Ran A man Deep Singh

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Speaker 2: a couple of our top top leaders in technology research

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Speaker 2: for Bloomberg Intelligence.

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Speaker 3: They drive the business.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk energy here and sustainable energy, and to do that,

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Speaker 2: one of the folks we like to check in with

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Speaker 2: is Jonathan Maxoy. He's a CEO and co founder of

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Speaker 2: sustainable development capital. The name says it all. He joins

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Speaker 2: us here on a Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. He was

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Speaker 2: also the author of a new book which I will

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Speaker 2: Plug the Edge, How competition for resources is pushing the

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Speaker 2: world and its climate to the brink, and what we

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Speaker 2: can do about it. Jonathan, thanks so much for joining

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Speaker 2: us here. Did we have President Biden in the administration

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Speaker 2: do something with liquefied natural gas and people in the

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Speaker 2: energy patch? An, I'm so happy about it. What's going

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Speaker 2: on there?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, So, a couple of weeks ago there was a

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Speaker 7: moratorium on exports new export licenses though export of liquefied

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Speaker 7: natural gas to Europe. I'm in putting this into context.

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Speaker 7: Europe had to scramble for gas after Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

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Speaker 7: And where do you get it from? Well, you know, Kata, Norway.

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Speaker 7: But actually one of the biggest, if not the biggest

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Speaker 7: exporters is the United States. Right So now, having said

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Speaker 7: all of that, we had an announcwerment this week from

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Speaker 7: the White House to say, don't worry, you know it

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Speaker 7: will be within a year. We'll let these new export

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Speaker 7: licenses come back. There was already just to put this

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Speaker 7: into context, about fifty billion cubic feet per day authorized.

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Speaker 7: That's three times the level of today's exports. So this

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Speaker 7: isn't anything to panic about in the short run. Now

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Speaker 7: this was dressed or explained as a climate initiative. Now

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Speaker 7: I'm in the sustainability business, I would love to think that.

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Speaker 7: I'm also expecting having said that, that some thought has

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Speaker 7: had to be given to what it could do to

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Speaker 7: US prices. Do you know how much more expensive it

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Speaker 7: is to buy gas in the versus the United States?

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Speaker 7: A lot four to eight times on average over the

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Speaker 7: last five years or so, And it's never really over

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Speaker 7: the last decade been cheaper other than in one month,

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Speaker 7: which was in COVID when everything went upside down. So

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Speaker 7: you know, this is a big issue for Europe. It's

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Speaker 7: a huge opportunity for the United States to step into

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Speaker 7: Russia's shoes here.

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Speaker 1: So if it's a huge opportunity for the United States,

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Speaker 1: it does still seem to me that President brien has

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Speaker 1: just kind of completely undercut that potential advantage, or am

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Speaker 1: I missing something?

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Speaker 7: I think there's a moratorium. The White House has effectively

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Speaker 7: said the moratorium is pretty short lived, and it won't

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Speaker 7: really affect anything in the short run. I think the

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Speaker 7: bigger picture really for the US, it's an extraordinary energy position.

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Speaker 7: It's energy independent, it's the largest largest exporter actually potentially

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Speaker 7: of oil and gas in the world. So this is

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Speaker 7: quite a challenge. Actually, this is now a big Petra state.

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Speaker 7: What do you do in a changing environmental and climate world?

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Speaker 2: All right, so we're a sustainable development capital. Where are

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Speaker 2: you guys deploying your capital these day? Is where do

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Speaker 2: you think is some of the greatest opportunities.

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Speaker 7: So look, half of half of our investment, maybe more,

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Speaker 7: is actually coming into the United States, So we invest

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Speaker 7: in a different type of solution to everybody else, whether

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Speaker 7: most of the money is focused. This is big business.

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Speaker 7: Energy is one of the biggest business in the world.

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Speaker 7: Nine trillion has been invested in renewables. So if you

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Speaker 7: think of US as somebody in the clean energy sector,

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Speaker 7: you would expect as maybe to be building wind farms

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Speaker 7: or sellar parks and plugging it into the grid. The

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Speaker 7: place that we get excited actually is what with the

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Speaker 7: customer rather than the grid. You're going to have to

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Speaker 7: spend California alone is going to have to spend eighty

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Speaker 7: billion to build out its grid over the next decade,

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Speaker 7: just to transport the existing energy systems. If I told

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Speaker 7: you as I do when I come on your show,

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Speaker 7: how nuts it is that in the United States in

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Speaker 7: Europe about two thirds to seventy percent of the primary

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Speaker 7: energy is wasted or lost before it gets to the point.

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Speaker 2: I never understood that again, So after seventy percent of

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Speaker 2: the energy produced just gets wasted, it goes up into

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Speaker 2: the right the air, of the atmosphere, of the everywhere else.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I'll unpack it very quickly, but because it is extraordinary,

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Speaker 7: it's the biggest dirty secret of the energy sector, and

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Speaker 7: I'll just unpack it to begin. It's why I wrote

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Speaker 7: the book actually, and thousands of people read it, and

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Speaker 7: if anybody would like to take casure with it, I'd

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Speaker 7: love to get your email. So the biggest loss of

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Speaker 7: energy happens actually in centralized energy systems. Gas and nuclear

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Speaker 7: are two of the largest other than coal, and the

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Speaker 7: two of the largest producers of electricity, for example, in

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Speaker 7: the United States. The problem is when you put either

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Speaker 7: a gas molecule in a turbine or frankly nuclear fuel

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Speaker 7: and a power station, only about half of it turns

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Speaker 7: into electricity. What happens to the other half, it turns

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Speaker 7: into heat. Now, if that heat is being produced very

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Speaker 7: far away from the energy load, in other words, where

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Speaker 7: the demand is what happens to it, well, not nothing,

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Speaker 7: it gets it just disappears into the atmosphere. Ultimately, the

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Speaker 7: bits that do escape into space, they don't need it

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Speaker 7: up there. So that's the biggest part of the loss.

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Speaker 7: It's what they call thermal loss is at the point

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Speaker 7: of generation. The solution to that is to generate closer

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Speaker 7: to where you need the energy, and then you could

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Speaker 7: use the heat, but we don't. There are other bits

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Speaker 7: of loss which happen. You lose about ten percent on

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Speaker 7: extracting and converting oil and gas, for example, into pipelines.

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Speaker 7: Why do I talk about oil and gas as a

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Speaker 7: sustainability guy, because eighty percent of the world's energy still

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Speaker 7: fossil fuels or oil, gas and coal. And then the

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Speaker 7: last piece of it is transmission and distribution systems. Washington,

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Speaker 7: I was there yesterday and I'm unbelievably happy to see

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Speaker 7: that they're looking on the demand side of this too.

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Speaker 7: Now because everything's been about grid, good grid, you know,

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Speaker 7: we need to invest in more in the grid. That's

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Speaker 7: just to get the energy for miles away into town.

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Speaker 7: But do you know what, five to ten percent of

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Speaker 7: it gets lost through transmission and distribution system. So you

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Speaker 7: added out ten percent plus fifty percent plus ten percent.

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Speaker 7: And the Lawrences live in more national laboratories. Numbers they

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Speaker 7: produce every July show that now in the United States,

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Speaker 7: seventy percent of primary energy is lost before it gets

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Speaker 7: to the point of use.

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Speaker 1: It's incredible, that's an incredible statistic.

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Speaker 3: Well, we have just got back.

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Speaker 7: But you know, I think, as I said I was

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Speaker 7: in DC yesterday, I'm not going to give away in

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Speaker 7: particular confidences, but I'm I think this is now the

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Speaker 7: big story of the next decade. You know, here we've

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Speaker 7: what do we do? You know we've got.

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Speaker 3: Are there technologies to reduce that number?

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, Technologies that have existed for a decade, that are

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Speaker 7: cost competitive and that are cheaper, cleaner, and more reliable.

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Speaker 7: I'll give you a few examples in the United States,

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Speaker 7: and we're one of the biggest investors in this space.

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Speaker 7: Rooftop solar and storage car ports where you can plug

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Speaker 7: directly to the buildings, on site generation. We run on

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Speaker 7: site generation for some of the biggest and most important

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Speaker 7: steel mills in the United States. So not all of this,

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Speaker 7: and that's basically using recycled gases, same stuff turbines and

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Speaker 7: engines that people use to generate energy in the middle

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Speaker 7: of nowhere. Instead we capture the waste gases and we

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Speaker 7: make energy for power and steel on site. Cutting cost,

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Speaker 7: cubon and improving reliability data centers is a huge issue, right,

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Speaker 7: I mean, it can't go a conversation without talking AI.

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Speaker 7: I think it's impolite these days. I'll do it, But

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Speaker 7: that AI alone should be about three percent of global

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Speaker 7: energy and I demand by the end of this decade. Right,

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Speaker 7: but how are you going to get the power to

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Speaker 7: the data centers? How are you going to cool them?

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Speaker 3: Did you know?

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Speaker 7: By the way, for every unit you put into a

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Speaker 7: data center of electricity, only zero point sixty five units

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Speaker 7: of compute come out the other side. So this is

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Speaker 7: the flip side of my point. Even when energy's got there,

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Speaker 7: it gets lost at the point of use. So what

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Speaker 7: do you do? You improve the mechanic corner, electrical equipment,

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Speaker 7: better heating, cooling, In the case of data centers lighting.

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Speaker 7: This is the biggest total addressable market in the energy sector,

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Speaker 7: not actually about generating more but wasting less.

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Speaker 3: See there's somebody that actually does something for a living.

435
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm my whole wife on wallship pushing paper around.

436
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: That's not These guys actually do stuff.

437
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 1: Now, it's impressive.

438
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 3: I know. All right, So let me just let's go

439
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 3: over this again, folks.

440
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 2: Jonathan Maxwell, he's a CEO, he's a co founder Sustainable

441
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 2: Development Capital who's also the author of this book, The Edge,

442
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 2: How competition for resources is pushing the world and it's

443
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 2: climate to the brink, and what we can do about it. Again,

444
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 2: this is to me, this is the energy lost guy.

445
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 2: He's my energy lost guy. I didn't even know that

446
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 2: was really a thing, but it's a thing. Jonathan, thanks

447
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 2: so much for journeys. We really appreciate it. Best of

448
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,439
Speaker 2: luck on that. Keep us up the date on what

449
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 2: you guys are doing, what the investments are, and what

450
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 2: our good friends Don and Washington could do to help us.

451
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 2: All right, folks, you're daily look at the front pages

452
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 2: around the world. At least miteo what he got for

453
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 2: us from the newspapers.

454
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 8: So it's Friday, right, so I figured we do a

455
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 8: getaway Friday, little travel theme going here. All right, we'll

456
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 8: start with something on the Bloomberg Boeing directors.

457
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 9: They're planning to meet next week with top executives.

458
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 8: From some of their largest airline airline customers who are

459
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 8: obviously frustrated, frustrated for obvious reasons. One person who won't

460
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 8: be there though, sources a Tay Bloomberg at CEO Dave Calhoun.

461
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 9: So that's kind of interest.

462
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 8: I mean, he's they say he's supportive.

463
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 9: Of the sessions. Okay, but he won't be there.

464
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 8: Who will be there as Larry Kellner, he's the chairman

465
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 8: of Boeing's board, two other three other directors. But it

466
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 8: just shows that growing frustration that I guess people have

467
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 8: with him.

468
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

469
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 1: I feel like, if you're not gonna have the CEO there,

470
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: what is the benefit? What's the upside versus? What is

471
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: the message? Is there a sense that he'll do more

472
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: harm than good, that he's not the one that people

473
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 1: want to see because they're so angry. What's the deal

474
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: with that?

475
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 3: Yeah?

476
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: But I mean it's a good it is you can

477
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: make spin. It is a good optical issue here, which

478
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: is the board going out to the big customers saying listen.

479
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 2: You have our attention here, you have our undivided attention. Yeah,

480
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 2: we're not coming here telling you anything. We're coming in

481
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: here to listen.

482
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 3: What do you need?

483
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 2: We'll take that back to our management team. Maybe maybe

484
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: it's a good thing, but I don't know. It's just

485
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: amazing how this has happened. And we remember asking George Ferguson,

486
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: who covers Boeing for Bloomberg Intelligence, he's covered the company

487
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 2: for decades. He's never seen it like this, where there

488
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: are so many quality issues here. So these are unusual

489
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: times and maybe some unusual strategies here.

490
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 8: They're definitely gonna get some unfiltered feedback. Yes, you can say,

491
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 8: all right, So have you guys ever lost your luggage

492
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 8: when you've traveled?

493
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 6: Have you?

494
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 3: I don't check anything, you don't check to check. Thinks

495
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 3: since like the eighties, So you fit it all in

496
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 3: a little back. I go to Europe for two weeks

497
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 3: with a Duffel bag.

498
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, you're my hero.

499
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 9: Right, that's what I say. Have you ever lost the

500
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 9: luggage jen.

501
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: A long time ago? Yeah, but I did get it back.

502
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 8: You did get Okay, that's the problem. So back in

503
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 8: twenty twenty two, there was a rise in this right,

504
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 8: A lot of people started losing their luggage, so airlines

505
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 8: started working to fix the problem.

506
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 9: Most of them did better. In twenty twenty three.

507
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 8: This is according to the Transportation Department. Nine major US

508
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 8: carriers actually did better, except four United. They mishandled bags

509
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 8: more than eleven percent worse than in twenty twenty two.

510
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 9: But they still perform.

511
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 8: Better than American airlines, which is usually performing better. So

512
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 8: they did worse too. A lot of people going using

513
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 8: Apple air tags to find the rest. That's when you

514
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 8: use you you do use that, Okay, so they use

515
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 8: Apple air tags. Allegiant actually performed the best when it

516
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 8: comes to not losing your luggage, but they this is

517
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 8: all happening as you hear about, you know, the airlines

518
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 8: raising the.

519
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 9: Fees for the checked bag.

520
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 8: So it's kind of like you're losing them, but I'm

521
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 8: paying more exactly to jacket.

522
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 3: It's frustrated. I don't know.

523
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: On the apps now, at least on the United app,

524
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: you can track your bag and see exactly kind.

525
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 3: Of where it is. Okay, yes, I really, yeah, So

526
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 3: that's kind of new thing on the United app.

527
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: So you don't need the air tag. I would still

528
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: get the air tag.

529
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 3: I would trust the air tag.

530
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:34,239
Speaker 6: Yeah I do.

531
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 9: But does the air tag take you actually to where.

532
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: The like it does?

533
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 6: It does?

534
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 2: And I had sitting on a tarmac and like, you know, Newark. Okay,

535
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: that's not good.

536
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 1: No, but that's that's how I managed to get my

537
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: bag back when I had a delay because it was

538
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: sitting at on the tarmac and they're like, they're all here.

539
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, look at my phone. I can see my

540
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: bag is on the tarmac.

541
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 9: See. So that does work.

542
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,719
Speaker 8: Okay, see, you solve it all. Right, here's something interesting.

543
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 8: So you have you know, everybody the miles, right you

544
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 8: join the programs. If you don't have enough miles for

545
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 8: a free flight, you can now borrow them from your kids.

546
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 8: This is through a new program the United Airlines. It's

547
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 8: letting people pull share their frequent Flyer points with family

548
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 8: and friends.

549
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 9: So here's how it works. Let me break it down.

550
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 8: So the group leader has to be over eighteen, but

551
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 8: there is no minimum age for others. So that's how

552
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 8: you can sign up your kids. So everyone in the

553
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 8: pool has to have their own United Frequent Flyer account.

554
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 8: People like you have Jet Blue, Spirit Frontier. Like the

555
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 8: smaller airlines they do this, they do the pooling, but

556
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 8: United this is a first airline to the first major

557
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 8: airline to actually do this.

558
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 2: So well, we kind of like, you know, the Netflix

559
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 2: password things, So the kids get get booted off of

560
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: my Netflix accounts because they've been mooching off me for years.

561
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: Same thing for the United miles. I mean, I've been

562
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 2: very benevolent with my miles with the kids, but I

563
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: mean I can't imagine the day when I'm going to

564
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 2: get any of their miles.

565
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 9: I was about to say, I don't think they travel

566
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 9: more than.

567
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: You wait trip, Yeah, some Christmas present if you're a

568
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: little short of cash, have my miles.

569
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 9: Right, Oh see, there you go.

570
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 8: Yeah, but it's true because a lot of people have

571
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 8: been complaining about the miles, so this might be a little.

572
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: Bit of perk.

573
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 8: Finally, package holidays, you know those all in packages includes flights, hotels, transfers, food, everything.

574
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 8: They're becoming the hot new thing again. Okay, apparently it

575
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 8: took a hit because with the Internet people put their

576
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 8: own packages together. It was mainly a baby boomer thing,

577
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 8: but the younger travelers they're starting to get more sophisticated.

578
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 8: They wanted these offers and they want hassle for you vacations.

579
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 8: They just want people to do the work for them.

580
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: Here we go in September, going back to the motherland

581
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 2: in Ireland. They can't wait to see me, by the way,

582
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: so we're gonna go over there. And we were looking

583
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: at it like all the books, all the websites do

584
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff, and I'm like, we

585
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: can't do this, we.

586
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 3: Don't want to do this.

587
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 2: We walked across the street and said, hey, here's how

588
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 2: much money I have. Here's kind of where I want

589
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: to go. And literally half hour later they came.

590
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: Back with a proposal. Bum I said, Okayank done.

591
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: That is fantastic. That is the way forward. That is

592
00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: the future.

593
00:27:59,080 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 8: I e.

594
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: That's beyond old.

595
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 3: Old fashioned travel agents, you know.

596
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 9: So does include the food and all that kind of transfer?

597
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a tour, so the only thing so

598
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 2: they book you on some schlocky seats on United.

599
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 3: So I just use some of my mouths to upgrade

600
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 3: because you know, I'm not sitting in the back, you

601
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 3: know me please.

602
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: So but other than that, they took off everything and

603
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: I think for some of the I don't know some

604
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: of the more advanced trips.

605
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: It kind of makes sense still. I don't know.

606
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: I'm not even sure what I paid for it, but

607
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: in terms of a fee, but it was definitely worth

608
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 2: it whatever it was.

609
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: You'll be in Ireland, you'll go to a pub, but

610
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: it'll be exactly.

611
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 3: What would go wrong.

612
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 9: I think it just makes sense too.

613
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 8: I mean, just for families traveling, it's easier to have

614
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 8: that all inclusive, so you're not thinking about having to

615
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 8: dish out cash and how much who I got to

616
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 8: give this much to?

617
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 9: It's just all taken care of.

618
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

619
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: I should have done all inclusive when my kids were

620
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 2: a little because when you check out after a week,

621
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: you get a bill that's like fifty pages.

622
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, long because it's.

623
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: Every smoothie, every beer, every soda, and it just kills you.

624
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: As now you go to all inclusive, you literally walk

625
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: out the last day, you don't do anything you've done.

626
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 9: You can even include gratuities in there if you want.

627
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 3: Yep.

628
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so anyway, a different way to go. So all right,

629
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: good stuff there. Lisa Mitteo here traveling and between now

630
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: in September. I don't travel anywhere because I'm at the

631
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: Jersey Shore, people can come to meet.

632
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 3: There's no place in a world I'd rather be.

633
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast, bringing you the best

634
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: in economics, geopolitics, finance, and investment. You can also watch

635
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: the show live on YouTube. Visit the Bloomberg Podcast channel

636
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: on YouTube to see the show weekday mornings from seven

637
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: to ten Eastern from our global headquarters in New York City.

638
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else

639
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,480
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640
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:38,800
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