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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.

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Speaker 2: Everyone welcome The Mother Knows Death.

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Speaker 3: On today's episode, we have a very special guest, our friend,

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Speaker 3: Jared Farantino. Jarrett is a nationally recognized former homicide prosecutor

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Speaker 3: and legal analysts featured on ABC's twenty twenty Crime Nation

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Speaker 3: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace and Moore. Some of our

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Speaker 3: listeners might recognize him from as many appearances and true

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Speaker 3: crime documentaries, including a recent appearance in The Idaho Student

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Speaker 3: Murders on Peacock. Jarrett has prosecuted serial killers, gang members,

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Speaker 3: domestic murders, and drug dealers. Notably, he represented the family

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Speaker 3: of Britney Drexel in their decade long pursuit of justice

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Speaker 3: and as champion community seeking claims against big farmat and

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Speaker 3: distributors during the opioid crisis. One of Jared's most compelling

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Speaker 3: stories is this decade long court battle against infamous serial

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Speaker 3: killer Hugo Selensky, culminating in a landmark victory. He is

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Speaker 3: the host of the podcast True Crime Boss and author

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Speaker 3: of the book Mother Murders and Motivations, which will be

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Speaker 3: coming out on April twenty first. Twenty twenty six. Today,

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Speaker 3: we're going to talk to him about some of the

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Speaker 3: crazy cases that have been going on in the news

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Speaker 3: over the past few weeks, his upcoming book, and more.

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Speaker 3: Please welcome Jared to the show. Hi Jared, how you doing.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for being here.

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Speaker 1: I'm great. Hello, Maria and Nicole. It's my honor and

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Speaker 1: pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 4: No, this is so awesome. We just had dinner with

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Speaker 4: you last week in New York City. It was really awesome,

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Speaker 4: our first time meeting you in firston, but of course

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Speaker 4: we were on your show before.

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Speaker 1: So I was I enjoyed dinner. I was not disappointed.

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Speaker 1: It was great to meet you both, and we were

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Speaker 1: looking forward to coming on today and talking. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a good thing. It's a quiet time in the

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Speaker 1: true crime world, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: Right, and we want to talk to you about so

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Speaker 3: many different things, and some of them are kind of

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Speaker 3: all related. I guess we should just start off with

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Speaker 3: Brian Walsh since that just happened a second before we

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Speaker 3: got on the call with you, so we haven't even

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Speaker 3: discussed it with you off camera, So why don't Ray,

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Speaker 3: why don't you talk about it, and then we'll talk

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 4: Well, it just got sentenced, truly thirty seconds before we

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Speaker 4: came on this recording, so I definitely want to talk

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Speaker 4: about it with you. So whenever we're talking about cases,

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Speaker 4: we never understand how the sentencing works. So I'm really

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Speaker 4: interested to pick your brain about it because we don't

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Speaker 4: understand how some people get bail some people don't, so

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Speaker 4: we are going to have a million questions for you.

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Speaker 4: But we talked about Brian Walsh on our emergency episode

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Speaker 4: this Monday, because he had been found guilty of murdering

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Speaker 4: and dismembering his wife, even though her body has not

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Speaker 4: been found. So as of thirty seconds before this recording,

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Speaker 4: he has been sentenced to life in prison with no parole,

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Speaker 4: which I don't think is surprising for anybody that was

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Speaker 4: following the case, not at.

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Speaker 1: All, And the appropriate sentence for mister Walts, that's for sure.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and I don't think the judge had any

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Speaker 4: sympathy for him at all.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, he's a clown. Even their defense was.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you look at that case, first of all,

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Speaker 1: he starts off by she disappears on New Year's Eve.

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Speaker 1: If he lies to the police, creates this manhunt and

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Speaker 1: search for his wife through New Year's and then his

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Speaker 1: attorneys plead guilty to dismembering her body. And their defense,

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Speaker 1: which they really didn't put on a defense they used

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Speaker 1: this in cross examination of the Commonwealth or the States

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Speaker 1: case was she died of some sudden death syndrome, right,

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Speaker 1: this strange situation, and he got so freaked out, died naturally.

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Speaker 1: He gets so freaked out he dismembers her body and

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Speaker 1: dumps her throughout the area in a series of dumpsters.

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Speaker 1: It makes zero sense, especially when you look at and

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Speaker 1: it's a tough case. It was essentially a no body

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Speaker 1: case in that you couldn't get a cause of her death.

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Speaker 1: You couldn't determine that she was murdered. So you have

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Speaker 1: a situation where you have to look at the circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Walsh was in trouble. He was facing the federal charge

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Speaker 1: for the art fraud, His marriage was falling apart, he

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Speaker 1: owed money, he was facing economic challenges that set the

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Speaker 1: table for this murder, and she was on her way

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Speaker 1: out of the marriage.

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Speaker 4: It is interesting, I think a lot of people are

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Speaker 4: also comparing this to Scott Peterson's case a little bit,

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Speaker 4: because you know, Lacy wasn't found for so long, and

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Speaker 4: a lot of it was circumstantial evidence.

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Speaker 1: It was And again, in circumstantial evidence, I say to

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Speaker 1: people is still evidence. But you know, television and media

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Speaker 1: and shows like we do set an expectation for jerors.

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Speaker 1: They expect to see DNA, they expect to see video evidence,

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Speaker 1: things of that nature. So as a prosecutor you have

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Speaker 1: to basically explain to them that's not the only thing.

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Speaker 1: You can consider somebody's circumstance and use your common sense

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Speaker 1: to get to that beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 3: Stand this is like reminding me of Casey Anthony. Like

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Speaker 3: defense attorneys are going to use this all the time, like, well,

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Speaker 3: if we say they died from an accident or from

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Speaker 3: a natural death, and they don't have the body and

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Speaker 3: they can't really prove it, you're going to put some

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Speaker 3: doubt inside of the jury, right that.

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Speaker 2: Well, in theory, I guess that could.

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Speaker 3: Have happened because we don't have her body and we

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Speaker 3: don't really know what did happen to her. But for

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Speaker 3: his particular case, I mean, Casey Anthony was kind of

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Speaker 3: the same thing. Honestly, there was a lot of circumstantial evidence.

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Speaker 3: This is the text messages and all that. So as

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Speaker 3: a prosecutor, do you ever look at cases from Afar

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Speaker 3: and say, oh, god, that's an easy one. That would like,

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Speaker 3: I personally think this one's easy, whereas we're going to

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Speaker 3: talk about Karen Reid in a little bit that that

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Speaker 3: one might have been a little bit more challenging to handle.

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Speaker 1: So all the ones I don't have to handle, I

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Speaker 1: think look easy, right, But you know, obviously some of

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Speaker 1: them were a lot more challenging than others. Karen Reid

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Speaker 1: still gives me a headache. I still debate that case

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Speaker 1: with people. But we're talking about Casey Anthony too. Her

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Speaker 1: approach much like Walsh's. She it worked for her. You know,

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Speaker 1: the jury didn't. The jury couldn't get to a point.

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Speaker 1: You know. The thing about Casey Anthony's case and Kayley's

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Speaker 1: death was it had gone on them for so long.

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Speaker 1: There was this mystery, there was this lie she was

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Speaker 1: telling and all these stories. Walsh was like a locked

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Speaker 1: room murder mystery. He was the only one with her

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Speaker 1: that night they were in the house. She then vanishes

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Speaker 1: off the face of the earth, and then he's seen

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Speaker 1: buying all these tools to cut her up. You didn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily have that. In Casey Anthony, you had some speculation

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Speaker 1: of that, so the chemicals that were traced in her

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Speaker 1: trunk and things like that. So Walsh's case was a

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Speaker 1: little bit tighter than Casey Anthony.

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Speaker 4: We're talking about too, like, how is there not some

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Speaker 4: system alert at these home improvement stores that if you're

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Speaker 4: buying a very specific combination of things like he was,

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Speaker 4: that you're not like, m hello, this is not okay.

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Speaker 4: Because we had a story a while ago about a

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Speaker 4: door dash driver that got a weird order like that

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Speaker 4: and actually didn't follow through with delivering the order and

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Speaker 4: called the police.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's an interesting thought. It's like, what does

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Speaker 1: a guy clearly he's amassing materials to hack up a body, right,

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Speaker 1: he's got a hack sites got this. But there's also

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Speaker 1: wawful explanations for those things too. You know, if somebody's

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Speaker 1: doing a whole improvement project, they're going to need some

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Speaker 1: of those very tools. So unfortunately, when you're in the

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Speaker 1: true crime world like we are, we jumped to that conclusion.

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Speaker 1: But if you're selling these items and loads, you're thinking, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're going to use them. In the lawful legal sense,

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Speaker 1: you're not thinking this guy's going home to kuind of body.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I actually brought it up to Gabe when we were

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Speaker 3: driving home, and he was just like trying to give

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Speaker 3: me scenarios of why you would need those items. He's

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Speaker 3: just like, if you're doing demo in a house, like

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Speaker 3: you would need a soul and you would need a

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Speaker 3: tie x suit if there was some kind of lead

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Speaker 3: pain or something like. He's just like, you could in

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Speaker 3: theory buy all those things and use them for a

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Speaker 3: home project.

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Speaker 1: Right, and you could also be cutting up a body. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you know there are interestingly you said that, though, Maria,

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Speaker 1: because there are times where, like I represent companies, and

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Speaker 1: if certain chemicals are sold, for example, to a vendor

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Speaker 1: to a particular customer, that could get flagged and the

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Speaker 1: government can look into why is this particular customer buying

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Speaker 1: a particular item. So you do have that, but with

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Speaker 1: everyday items such as this, anything could become a weapon

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Speaker 1: at some point or many things, and many things can

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Speaker 1: become tools to utilize in the disposal of a body.

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Speaker 3: Fortunately, well we I just and I didn't even think

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Speaker 3: about talking about this, but I just heard that this

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Speaker 3: singer David, you know, the guy that spells his name.

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Speaker 2: Weird. Yes, that they found someone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they found some weird thing in his house that

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Speaker 3: would be capable of incinerating a human body.

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Speaker 1: Right, an incinerator, and it was found by a private

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Speaker 1: investigator hired by the landlord. Okay, this guy, by the way,

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Speaker 1: the private investigator has found a couple things. Why the

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Speaker 1: landlord has hired a private investigator is a little odd,

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Speaker 1: But his investigator has found some interesting things in that case,

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Speaker 1: not the least of which was an incinerator that I

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Speaker 1: heard was unopened that the police didn't take. And I

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Speaker 1: look at that. Now, if I'm at that home and

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Speaker 1: they're executing the warrant and I see an incinerator capable

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Speaker 1: of burning a body, I would say, and it was unopened,

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Speaker 1: I believe I would say, go ahead and take that

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Speaker 1: into evidence, because if you're following that case, she was

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Speaker 1: not Her body was in the front of the tesla,

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Speaker 1: not disposed of yet. Could that incinerator have been purchased

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Speaker 1: to ultimately then get rid of her body? Again, you

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Speaker 1: don't make that call when you're gathering the evidence of

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Speaker 1: the scene. I would have taken that and then ran

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Speaker 1: it down In the investigations like.

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Speaker 3: Who and especially a famous person living in la or

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Speaker 3: where you know, like did you see the neighborhood he

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Speaker 3: was living in?

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Speaker 2: What would be why would anybody need that?

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Speaker 1: Well, they're legal there. You can't have that kind of

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Speaker 1: burning there, So why would anyone have it? There is

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Speaker 1: a great question. And they're not lawful. You can't open

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Speaker 1: burn there, so at which you have the Palisades fires

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Speaker 1: and everything else that you've had there. So in that situation,

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Speaker 1: if somebody could say, oh, there could be a legal explanation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but this guy happened to have a body in his

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Speaker 1: trunk too. It could also have been prepared and purchased

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Speaker 1: to eventually get rid of her body.

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Speaker 3: It's actually scary because if he did that, like nobody

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Speaker 3: would even have known that. No, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: because she wasn't really connected with him much.

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Speaker 1: Right, And eventually maybe they could have put it together

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Speaker 1: that she's well obviously missing. But the fact that they

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Speaker 1: even the fact that they found her body though, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know how close nucoy you're following this, but

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Speaker 1: they have not at least to date, released a lot

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Speaker 1: of information and been able to glean a lot from

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Speaker 1: her body as far as cause and manner of death either,

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Speaker 1: and that may have changed. But my understanding is her

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Speaker 1: body was in such an advanced point of decomposition that

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Speaker 1: they were unable to make that determination. And we're awaiting

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Speaker 1: some toxicology as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we requested the autopsy report when September, right when

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Speaker 3: I missed.

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Speaker 4: I like my thirty four dollars back because it's been

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Speaker 4: a really long time and I don't have any documents

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Speaker 4: about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they still have.

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Speaker 3: I don't think they finalized it yet, so I mean,

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Speaker 3: obviously they're waiting for talks ecology, and because everybody's on

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Speaker 3: this case so hard, they want to really make sure

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Speaker 3: that they have everything situated ahead of time.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know, and they have a grand jury going,

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Speaker 1: so people are talking, they're bringing witnesses in, blocking people

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Speaker 1: to a story that really to me means it's in

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Speaker 1: the hands of the district attorney and it's moving forward.

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Speaker 1: It's no longer just in the hands of the police.

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Speaker 1: So something's going to happen soon. There.

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Speaker 4: Can you explain for our listeners and lay people how

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Speaker 4: a grand jury works?

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Speaker 2: Exactly?

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Speaker 1: Sure, So when you hear the word jury, you think

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Speaker 1: of a traditional jury that's in the courtroom for a

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Speaker 1: jury trial. But a grand jury is a jury that

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Speaker 1: is built within the population, a jury of your peers

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Speaker 1: brought in and ask to consider testimony. It's not a

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Speaker 1: trial situation. Prosecutors just appear in front of the grand jury,

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Speaker 1: usually with witnesses, and they present evidence and say, based

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Speaker 1: on this evidence, do you believe we have enough information

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Speaker 1: to move forward with a charge. So there's two kinds

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Speaker 1: of grand juries. There's a charging grand jury that would

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Speaker 1: do that, like in the David case, if they're bringing

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Speaker 1: in evidence and saying, this is what we have, do

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Speaker 1: we have enough to move forward with a murdered charge?

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Speaker 1: Or there's an investigative grand jury where you're subpeding witnesses

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Speaker 1: and locking them into a story and only getting their

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Speaker 1: testimony on the record, And that grand jury wouldn't necessarily indict,

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Speaker 1: but they're locking testimony and transcripts of these witnesses under oath.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of and it's all secretive. It's not public.

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Speaker 1: Long after it's over, the transcripts could be secretive. So

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Speaker 1: there's a big fight over the Epstein grand jury testimony

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Speaker 1: now both in Florida and in New York based on

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Speaker 1: the Epstein Disclosure Act. The grand jury records have been

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Speaker 1: unsealed in New York and Florida, or will be unsealed

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Speaker 1: on December nineteenth, when allegedly the records are going to

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Speaker 1: be released.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's interesting because I feel like it's a term

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Speaker 4: always seeing in the news and I really am just like,

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Speaker 4: I feel like I have an understanding of what this means,

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Speaker 4: but I also really don't as a normal person.

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Speaker 1: Grand juries are like flight club. I'm gonna date myself.

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Speaker 1: We don't talk about flight club.

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Speaker 4: Right, that's a good compared.

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Speaker 2: So how do they pick those people?

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Speaker 1: Well, usually it's a voter registration list and a driving list,

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Speaker 1: at least in Pennsylvania. That's how they're chosen. And then

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Speaker 1: you cannot be on a jury if you're a felon,

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Speaker 1: if you're not a citizen, if you don't understand the

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Speaker 1: English language, or of some kind of an impairment. Those

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Speaker 1: are the things that would prohibit you from serving. So

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Speaker 1: you couldn't serve on a grand jury, for example, if

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Speaker 1: any of those would apply, or some kind of hardship.

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Speaker 4: So that essentially just wrapped into normal jury duty services.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but a grand jury could sit for an

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Speaker 1: extended period of time where they could hear testimony, leave

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Speaker 1: and then reconvene the following week or two weeks later.

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Speaker 1: So it it's a little bit of a unique animal.

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Speaker 1: But in most states you don't have to do that.

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Speaker 1: Like das the district attorney for the most part is

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Speaker 1: very powerful. They don't need to put a case before

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Speaker 1: a grand jury. They can charge without. Oftentimes they use

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Speaker 1: the grand juries as a backsteller in making their decision

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Speaker 1: to move forward and testing the strength of their case.

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Speaker 3: So in this day and age with social media and everything,

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Speaker 3: and you're just getting regular people off the street to

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Speaker 3: trust them with like high level information that you don't

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Speaker 3: really want leaking to the press, right, Like how do

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Speaker 3: you control that?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's not easy. And they take an oath that

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Speaker 1: they're going to abide by the confidentiality provisions and ensure that.

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Speaker 1: I mean the major part of this, like this system

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Speaker 1: has to work for everyone, and you have to follow

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Speaker 1: the rules. If you don't, there could be consequences. Look

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Speaker 1: at the Murdock case when the jury, the woman that

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Speaker 1: was the jury commissioner down there in a low country,

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Speaker 1: she was talking to the jury and talking about the

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Speaker 1: case like she's been consequent she had complete guilty over that.

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Speaker 1: So jury confidentiality and sanctity is something that we have

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Speaker 1: to respect for the system to work, but it's difficult

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Speaker 1: to control. Sometimes they go as far as like taking

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Speaker 1: the jury and paneling them and sequestering them where they're

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Speaker 1: staying at a hotel and they can only have limited

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Speaker 1: access to their phone so they're not reading about a case.

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Speaker 1: And that is an extreme situation. But otherwise you just

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Speaker 1: have to avoid any accounts of a case and you

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Speaker 1: have to just promise you're doing that. Are they doing it?

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Speaker 1: Who knows.

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Speaker 3: I just would assume that the press would be trying

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Speaker 3: to figure out who these people are and could offer

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Speaker 3: them money for inside do you.

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Speaker 2: Know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: That would create now and again, if you have somebody

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Speaker 1: in the press doing that, that's something that could create

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Speaker 1: a problem because they're interfering with the justice system. That's

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Speaker 1: almost like an obstruction to approach a juror and pay

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Speaker 1: them or entice them to do anything. You could be

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Speaker 1: criminally liable for that.

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Speaker 3: Now, like the case jumping to another case of the

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Speaker 3: Brown University thing that's going on right now, this is

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Speaker 3: not the same thing, but kind of as far as

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Speaker 3: a leak goes, like someone I guess they had arrested

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Speaker 3: someone and then they let that person go, but someone

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Speaker 3: had leaked that person's name to the press and it

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Speaker 3: was all over social media. And if that guy truly

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Speaker 3: has nothing to do with this, I feel bad for

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Speaker 3: that guy. And who, like who was not supposed to tell?

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Speaker 3: And could that person if they find out who's told,

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Speaker 3: get in serious trouble for.

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Speaker 1: That well, you know, the thing about it is it

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Speaker 1: may have been like a defamation type situation, but the

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Speaker 1: reality was he was taking to custody. He was a

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Speaker 1: person of interest, so it was true. And those types

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Speaker 1: of things, although you try to keep them under wraps,

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Speaker 1: they're not necessarily protected with that same level of sanctity

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Speaker 1: as a juror's confidentiality. Like these things get out, you know,

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Speaker 1: when a person of interest is taken into custody, like

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Speaker 1: in the Brown University shooting, they pass a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: You know, Although you try to keep these things as

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Speaker 1: close to under close to the vest as you can,

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Speaker 1: there's administrators, there's staff, there's other police officers talk to

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Speaker 1: one another. Word gets out, and the media has relationships

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Speaker 1: with these folks, you know, I worked as a DA

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Speaker 1: for twenty years. I know every reporter for all the

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Speaker 1: news stations. I mean they were camped out in front

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Speaker 1: of my office many days. We all got to know

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Speaker 1: one another and spoke pretty frankly off camera sometimes, but

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Speaker 1: you have to maintain that professionalism when confidences are in play.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting too, because I saw it just happened with

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Speaker 3: the Rob Reiner case that I'm listening to the police

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Speaker 3: do their press conference and not saying anything. They wouldn't

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Speaker 3: even admit at the time that the people that were

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Speaker 3: dead inside the house were the Rob and his wife, Michelle.

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Speaker 3: And then at the same time, I'm looking on my

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Speaker 3: phone and people magazines like they're both dead. They were

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Speaker 3: murdered and it was their son who did it.

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Speaker 1: So it's like that was a little curious. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: they were trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean like it was everywhere and the chief was

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Speaker 1: being evasive, and I think he was pretty criticized for

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Speaker 1: that after it happened. I mean, word was out there,

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Speaker 1: you know, before everyone went to bed that night, they

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Speaker 1: had a pretty good inkling of what happened, you know,

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Speaker 1: Sunday night, into Monday.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, said though I don't always mind that because I

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Speaker 4: think law enforcements often criticized for that. But I also

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Speaker 4: think people just expect information immediately, and there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of people putting information out on social media that's not

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Speaker 4: always true, and then we're getting false facts. Like speaking

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Speaker 4: about the Rob Bryer case, for example, there was a

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Speaker 4: million reports that the daughter who found them had said,

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Speaker 4: my brother definitely did this, And now all of a

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Speaker 4: sudden they're like, oh, no, she didn't say that, she

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Speaker 4: never suggested the brother.

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Speaker 2: Well, which one is it?

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Speaker 4: Why did we rush to put that information out when

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Speaker 4: maybe it wasn't true, right, And now.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like that was the case, by the way, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she said that he was dangerous at least what's

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Speaker 1: being reported. But again I don't know why. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about Los Angeles, extremely famous, extremely powerful people.

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Speaker 1: You're going to have that rampant speculation. And it's a

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Speaker 1: situation where although that officer that's giving that press conference

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Speaker 1: is holding a lot of that information close to the vest, again,

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Speaker 1: you have other officers and other individuals who are on

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Speaker 1: site that are aware of what happened. I mean, one

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Speaker 1: of the things they kept reporting was that Larry. Every

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Speaker 1: report said Larry David and Billy Crystal were there, you know,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was a little I mean, those are

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Speaker 1: obviously dear friends of rob Ryders, and if something happened

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Speaker 1: in front of yours, you would go to the house.

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Speaker 1: But that was something that kept getting reported. And then

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Speaker 1: what President Trump said like sucked all the air out

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Speaker 1: of the room like the following day, you know. So

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00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 1: that story was just it had a lot of tentacles

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Speaker 1: and was being covered in a lot of different ways

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Speaker 1: and still is quite honestly, and will be for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 4: And it's quite the opposite of other cases we've seen.

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Speaker 4: We always cite Bob Saggitt and his death and then

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Speaker 4: Gene Hackman. Everybody jumped to think it was this horrific,

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Speaker 4: nefarious thing that went down, and know, they really just

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Speaker 4: died from either an accident or some natural thing. And

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Speaker 4: this is really the most horrific thing we've seen in

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Speaker 4: a while of somebody this famous.

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Speaker 1: Well, and it was clear and just by the nature

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Speaker 1: of your both of your work and your show, it

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Speaker 1: was clear this was not a natural death. I mean

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Speaker 1: what's being reported is their throats were slacked, and so

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Speaker 1: it's a violent, bloody and you know, so the odds

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Speaker 1: of that being natural are great.

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Speaker 3: Well, Like, I mean, you know, I'm writing a celebrity

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Speaker 3: death book. And it's funny because a lot of people

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Speaker 3: have so much interest in celebrity deaths, but there's not

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Speaker 3: really a whole lot of celebrities that have been murdered

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Speaker 3: as as far as if you want to do a

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Speaker 3: comparison of one hundred people, the percentage of homicides, it's

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Speaker 3: the same as it occurs in the normal population. It's

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Speaker 3: the lowest manner of death among celebrities as well. So

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Speaker 3: and a lot of them are like weird kind of murders,

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Speaker 3: like Michael Jackson and Princess Diana that were considered murdered

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Speaker 3: even though they weren't murdered in the traditional sense of

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Speaker 3: getting attacked with a knife like in this case. So

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Speaker 3: this is just a really rare thing to happen in Hollywood,

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Speaker 3: to be honest.

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Speaker 1: Right, So it's an anomaly, but it doesn't feel like

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Speaker 1: an anomaly because of the ramp and coverage it gets.

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Speaker 1: And it's so you know, this thing is going to

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Speaker 1: be huge for a long time. I mean, Rob Reiner

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00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: over many generations, was beloved and as I said, powerful,

437
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: He was politically active, like everybody knew who this guy was.

438
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: And then you look at the situation at this day

439
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 1: and age with the social media and all the videos

440
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: of he and his son Nick over ten years ago

441
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 1: talking and talking about Nick's problems. I mean, it's fascinating.

442
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 1: You know, their lives were just open and they were

443
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: speaking openly about their challenges. And one of the things

444
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: I've noticed, like in this case, and I've been spending

445
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: a couple of days looking at it very hard, is

446
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: kind of the evolution of Nick Reiner himself. If you

447
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: look at Nick Reiner in twenty fifteen as opposed to

448
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: how he looked in this past September at the premiere

449
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: for Spinal Tap. I think it was where that photograph

450
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: is with his film. They're beautiful people and Nick and

451
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: this isn't a judgment, like appeared to be disheveled, had

452
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: gained way, was unkimped but in twenty fifteen looked well,

453
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: looked healthy, looked like he was on top of his game.

454
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 1: This is indicative of someone who was in the throes

455
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: of drug addiction or terrible mental health. Situation.

456
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 4: They were even saying at Conan O'Brien's party too in

457
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 4: the news that he, I guess this part. I know

458
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 4: about this party, have heard about it before in pop culture,

459
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 4: but apparently it's this really fancy or deal. And he

460
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 4: just showed up looking exactly like you just described, completely

461
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 4: disheveled and off to the point where it was noticeable

462
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 4: to all the other guests.

463
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 1: And you know how sad is that, Like the writers

464
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: are invited to Colin O'Brien's, who's a friend of theirs,

465
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: and they like, can we bring our thirty two year

466
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: old son with us? You know, It's like because they

467
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,719
Speaker 1: what was being reported is they didn't want to leave

468
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: home because they were worried about it, you know. And

469
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: I look at this, it's tragic in so many ways

470
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: because I don't doubt that Robin Michelle Rynder loved their

471
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: son tremendously to the extent he was in rehab seventeen times.

472
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,479
Speaker 1: They provided for him. They were trying, you know, And

473
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: I've had patricide type cases like this in my career

474
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: in oftentimes the child that's getting all this love and

475
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: attention grows to resent their parents and they underestimate the

476
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: potential violence that could unfold with these kinds of cases.

477
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 1: You know, this is someone who clearly his mental health

478
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: and his drug addiction threw him into a place where

479
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: he became is alleged to have become very, very violent

480
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: and killed them in this episode. It's a horrible situation.

481
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, even when you watch those interviews from ten years ago,

482
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 4: I mean, he does look definitely more put together and everything,

483
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 4: but he's not home when he's talking. He's just not there,

484
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 4: and it's a little worrisome. And then you see all

485
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 4: these new pictures of him and he doesn't look mentally

486
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 4: sound well.

487
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: And again, one of the things that's going to become

488
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: a major issue in this case is, you know, it's

489
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: it doesn't appear to be a who'd done it? Okay,

490
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: Alan Jackson is representing Nick Ryander. Now it's not a who.

491
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't appear to be who'd done it. Ela Jackson's

492
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: a phenomenal lawyer. He may turn it into a who'd

493
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: done it once this thing gets investigated. They can challenge

494
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: the investigation, certainly, but we're going to end up in

495
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: the realm of some kind of mitigation via mental health

496
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: and drug induced situation, and I look at you know,

497
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: they're playing the videos of Nick walking at the gas

498
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: station shortly before getting to his parents' house and then

499
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: buying a drink before the cops picked him up in

500
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: another service station. It's been reported he got a hotel

501
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: room at four am, and that there was blood in

502
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: the shower, and that he puts sheets on the windows.

503
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 1: I look at that pre homicide and post homicide behavior,

504
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: and I say, this is someone who was in control,

505
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: understood where he was, who knew to get out of there,

506
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: get a hotel, get a shower, put the sheets up.

507
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: All of those things are intentional behaviors, and that's what

508
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 1: you're looking for in assessing somebody's level of intent. When

509
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: they're going to claim some kind of diminished capacity. It's

510
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: not going to fly in this case, though it's such

511
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: a high bar in California. You have to be literally

512
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: out of your mind to say, when I stuck this

513
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: knife in my parent's neck, I was so gone I

514
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: didn't realize it would kill them or that it was

515
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: illegal at that time.

516
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: Do you think there's going to be some kind of

517
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: Menendez like defense of like he was abused something something

518
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 3: like he was abusing me my whole life. And this

519
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 3: is I mean, it appears now is what's being reported

520
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 3: is that they were both sleeping when they had their

521
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: throats cut, which means it's not like the dad had

522
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 3: attacked him and he was fighting back, and you know

523
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 3: it wasn't a fight, which is even weirder honestly, if

524
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 3: a person's sleeping and then you decide to do something

525
00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 3: like that, right, at no.

526
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: Point do you say, like, this isn't a good idea,

527
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: Maybe I should just tiptoe out of here, right, I mean,

528
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: you're committed at that point. He has the weapon and

529
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: he kills one then the other. We don't know which order.

530
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: But your question of whether or not it could become

531
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: a Menandez situation, well you have to remember in the

532
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: Menendez situation, Lyle and Eric were the only two in

533
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: that house. You have is it Rammy and Jake or

534
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 1: two other siblings in that house. So I don't know

535
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 1: if you're going to be able to make that kind

536
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: of a claim if it's not true, because the Rhiners

537
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: were raised Jake and Romy were raised with Nick, so

538
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: I certainly hope not. I think you have like a

539
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: guy like rob Ryanders kind of on a pedestal. I

540
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: would certainly hope not, but anything's possible. And if that

541
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: is the case, Alan Jackson would be committing malpractice to

542
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: not at least address it and find a way to

543
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: get that in. But there's really no indication at this

544
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: point that there would be any credit ability to that

545
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: kind of a defense.

546
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 4: I was surprised to see Alan Jackson jumping on this

547
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 4: case because I just feel like, from what we know

548
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 4: in the public right now, it's pretty clear what happened.

549
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 4: I mean, of course we don't know all the all

550
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 4: the details and everything, but I just can't see what

551
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 4: angle he could possibly come in from and try to

552
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 4: defend him well.

553
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: And I thought the same thing, because you're so used

554
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: to him spinning this tale of corruption in the fleet

555
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: with the Karen Reid case, or remember he defended Arbi

556
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: Weinstein in Los Angeles and lost the Weinstein was convicted.

557
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: You know, Jackson is a phenomenal lawyer, and we're familiar

558
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: with cases that he's actually won, spacey and read. But

559
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: at the same time, if we only took cases that

560
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: were slam dunks or winnable, you'd have a tough time.

561
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: You just wouldn't have any business. I mean, you know,

562
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: this is his job. He's a criminal, high profile criminal

563
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: defense lawyer, and he'll defend Nick to the best of

564
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: his ability. That means mean instead of it being done

565
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,719
Speaker 1: it it's some kind of mental health issue. But it

566
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: may be a whodune. I mean, you know, the state

567
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: is still going to be required to prove this case

568
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: if it can't be resolved by way of a plea,

569
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: And how are you going to resolve it? I mean

570
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: you just walk in and plead and say I'll do life.

571
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: You know, there's very limited options in this case as

572
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: far as a resolution that would be acceptable to the

573
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: surviving family, the people of California, and the defendant.

574
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 4: This episode is brought to you by the Gross Room.

575
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 3: Guys, it is holiday time in the Gross Room, and

576
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 3: we have so many articles over the course of the

577
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 3: past six years to get you in a gross holiday mood.

578
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 3: Recently we did our high profile death dissection on freak

579
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: accidents that happen around this time of year. A lot

580
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 3: of deaths, but some people end up surviving.

581
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 2: Luckily.

582
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: We have our annual Christmas time post that is really

583
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: an accumulative post of over the years of the Grossroom.

584
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 3: That shows all of the different deaths that we covered,

585
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 3: including freak accidents. We had a high profile death dissection

586
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 3: on dangerous toys that seriously injured and killed people, and

587
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 3: we had a really funny one last year going over.

588
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 3: We did a dissection on all of the injuries that

589
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: happened during the home alone movies and what we.

590
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: Think could happen.

591
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 3: And most of the time usually it's like the first

592
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: one that happens, the person would die.

593
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: So check that out.

594
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: All that and more in the Gross Room, and plus

595
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: we have some New Year's episodes coming up of all

596
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 3: of the deaths that could happen around New Year's.

597
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 4: Head over to the Grossroom dot com now to sign up.

598
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 4: I guess the question we always have too about criminal

599
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 4: defense attorneys is in some cases you'll see they'll just

600
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 4: throw out this crazy accusation that somebody else close to

601
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 4: a victim or something committed the crime. If that's completely

602
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 4: unfounded and untrue, are those lawyers responsible for saying that

603
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 4: and defamation of any sort or they could just say

604
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 4: whatever they want to defend their client.

605
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: Well you would hope they don't just say whatever they want, right,

606
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: I mean that it's tied to something and if you remember,

607
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember which case it was, they had

608
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: a third party theory and they were prevented from I

609
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: think it was Karen Reid. They were saying it was

610
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: Karen Reid. No, no, no, it was Colberg. Colberger's lawyers

611
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: were barred from saying there was this third party responsible

612
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: right before the plea. That was one of the last

613
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: motions they lost, was their ability to blame this third

614
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: party that was cleared by the evidence. So if you're

615
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: going to name someone in your defense, you know, another

616
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: big bad wolf, so to speak, you better have a

617
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: monoicum of evidence or some thread of evidence that links

618
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: that person to it, because you could be subject. I mean,

619
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: there's immunity with regard to pleadings, but if it comes

620
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,239
Speaker 1: from out of nowhere and you defend someone with no

621
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: tie or no evidence to the case, you could be

622
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: consequence for that, or least somebody would try and you

623
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: would hope I mean the profession itself. I mean, that

624
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: is a hell of a thing to do, and it

625
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: could wind up blowing up in your face and really

626
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: harming your client.

627
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: So in the case with Rob Reiner and Nick Reiner,

628
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 3: like who so he's he's in jail, Like, how do

629
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,719
Speaker 3: people who are arrested just have access to their credit

630
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: cards or whatever to just call this lawyer? Because he

631
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 3: didn't have assuming his own money, He didn't have a

632
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 3: job or anything, So.

633
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 2: Where is he getting money to pay this lawyer?

634
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: I would think what I think is this? Knowing what

635
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: I have learned about this family, I believe his parents

636
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: had a trust fund for him, which is managed by

637
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: a trustee. So when someone is on and that level

638
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: of abusing drugs, if they get money, they're going to

639
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: try to score, right, So Nick, I'm sure it was

640
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: on a short leash money wise was probably provided with

641
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: and this is pure speculation on my part, but probably

642
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: provided with a weekly allowance or pay. But there is

643
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: a trustee, an individual who manages his money, and that

644
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: person would be authorized to secure an attorney for him.

645
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 1: So I don't think his sister or brother were rushing

646
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 1: out to buy the best criminal defense attorney they confined

647
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: for their brother immediately following this MRD. So I suspect

648
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: there is a trustee involved and that's how And again

649
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm only speculating, but that would explain the ability to

650
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: procure a lawyer at Jackson's level.

651
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 3: That quickly, did you hear that this is a potential

652
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 3: death penalty case or it could be just because of

653
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: the manner in which it was done. Is that something

654
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 3: that you think, whatever happen in this case.

655
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: Well, it certainly qualifies in that it meets an aggravator.

656
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: The aggravator that the aggravator is the use of a

657
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: deadly weapon. The multiple victims, particularly heinoused if they were sleeping,

658
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: that would potentially qualify it as a death penalty case.

659
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: But in California, Governor Newsom has a moratorium on the

660
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: death penalty, so you can seek it, but while he's

661
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: governor it will not be imposed, so that's kind of

662
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: a deterrent from seeking it. And in family situations, so

663
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: the victims that survive here are Nick's siblings. So typically

664
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: I've done many death penalty cases in my career. You

665
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: bring the surviving family members and you say, look, this

666
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: qualifies for death. We're looking at this as a potential

667
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: death penalty case. What are your thoughts. Now, they don't

668
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: make the decision for the DA, but their input is

669
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: weighed quite heavily on that decision particular. So there's a

670
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: lot that goes into the cocktail of that decision, so

671
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: it remains to be seen. I don't know that it's

672
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: going to be a death penalty case, though I don't

673
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: think so.

674
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 3: So in the case of Coburger, I know that some

675
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 3: of the parents really didn't want to drop the death

676
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 3: penalty charge. So was that, like what made the prosecutor

677
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 3: in that case go against that when it was kind

678
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 3: of clear they had a lot of evidence to support that.

679
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: Well, some parents were okay with the plea. Steve Gonsalves

680
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: was not. I know that, But really it's the prosecutor's decision. Okay.

681
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: The prosecutor is approached by the defense with the deal

682
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 1: that Coburger sits for the rest of his life in jail.

683
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: You no longer have the risk of trial, the unpleasantness

684
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: of trial if you take death off the tape. Okay,

685
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: And if you look at the life Brian Colberger is

686
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: currently living by behind bars, it is not you know,

687
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: it's not a five star situation. He's in right, he's

688
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: if you've seen the complaints, he's made all this stuff.

689
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: So in the end, I think the families will come

690
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: to accept that plea. But in making the decision whether

691
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: or not to take debt, put it on the table

692
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: or take it off. Family input is considered, but it

693
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: is not the deciding factor. Ultimately, the DA has to say,

694
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: I got to make the coal. I'm the one who's

695
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: got to try this thing. I'm the one who's got

696
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: to take the risks and tie up the resources. When

697
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: I have a sure thing of putting Brian Colberger away

698
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: for the rest of his life, I got to consider

699
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 1: that pretty hard. And I've done that, and death penalty

700
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: could be a tool to get please. I've had cases

701
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: where we're seeking death and one of the reasons you

702
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: seek it is well, we'll take it off the table

703
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: if you plead to life. And that's what happened Coburger,

704
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 1: and it's happened in many cases i've had.

705
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 3: How did you feel about that when that was going down.

706
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 3: Do you ever put yourself in these situations and be like,

707
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 3: if this was my case, I would have handled it

708
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 3: this way or something.

709
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm an emotional basket case, of course. I Like

710
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 1: they say, don't get emotionally involved. I was emotionally involved

711
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: in every homicide case I had, so yes I was.

712
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: But on the death penalty case I used to tell

713
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: people you know you're gambling. You're putting your life in

714
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: the hands of a jerk. If you want to gamble,

715
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 1: go to Bally's or go to Mohegan sun Right, this

716
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: isn't the place to gamble. One of the examples I

717
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: used to use toward the end was I said, look,

718
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: President Trump was shot in Butler, Pennsylvania, in front of

719
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: a crowd, and on television. How many different versions of

720
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: events were people talking about? Was he shot? Did he

721
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: get hit? Was it trapped? All this and that. I

722
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: used to say, like, you're going to trust eyewitness testimony

723
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: and witnesses to convince twelve people that some twelve people

724
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: you never met, from all different backgrounds, who are not

725
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: legally trained to make this decision, or we can make

726
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: this decision on our own and it's a sure thing.

727
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: So there were times I hedged my bet, but there

728
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 1: were more often than not. When a deal like that

729
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: comes to you as a prosecutor, you take it, even

730
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: if you're personally involved. And we have a moratorium in

731
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,479
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania on the death penalty. In fact, the biggest case

732
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: in my career was a death penalty case. We're picking

733
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: the jury and the governor who was a friend of mine,

734
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: imposed the moratorium during the jury selection, So I wasn't

735
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 1: necessarily thrilled at that moment, but you know, we slogged ahead,

736
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: and fortunately that individual got life in prison and was

737
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: not given the death penalty.

738
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: Let's talk about some of your cases, like that particular

739
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 3: one you're talking about.

740
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: So that case was the Hugo Selenski case in northeastern Pennsylvania,

741
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: which was a case that really captivated our region for

742
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 1: a long time Becauseinsky went on trial with the first

743
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: prosecution team for the first two murders he was charged

744
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: with in March of two thousand and six, he was acquitted.

745
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: So I joined the prosecution team in March of two

746
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: thousand and six and was on that the many manifestations

747
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 1: of the trial team through January of twenty fifteen, believe

748
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: it or not, when he finally went on trial and

749
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: we were able to secure a conviction finally to two

750
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: counts of first degree murder, but Selinsky had escaped our

751
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: jail from the fifth floor. He tied bed sheets and

752
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: escaped from our jail. At one point. He was pretty

753
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: infamous here and his case had attracted some national attention

754
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: as well. So that case because of how long it

755
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: went on, because I had gotten to know Selinski himself,

756
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: because through the course of nine years, I got married,

757
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: at babies and lived with this thing for so long.

758
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 1: It was just a major part of my life. So

759
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: that one, and got very close with the family involved

760
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: and the individuals to the point where I felt like

761
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: I was just like another player in this crazy world.

762
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: That case in particular, whenever people ask what cases immediately

763
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: come to mind. The other my first homicide, our County

764
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: Fair Queen was murdered in a botched robbery. She was

765
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: living in a little converted garage behind her boyfriend's grandmother's house.

766
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: They were only nineteen years old. These kids and two

767
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: guys went there to steal their marijuana at a PlayStation,

768
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: and she tried to stop them. Her boyfriend wasn't home,

769
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: and they brutalized them, and they stabbed her forty times.

770
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 1: And that was the first case I ever had. One

771
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: of the individuals hung himself in its jail cell shortly after,

772
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: and then the other individuals stood trial and was convicted.

773
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: So that's how it started. I was on the job

774
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: like three weeks. I was at my first murder scene

775
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: almost immediately and I've handled every type of case you

776
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 1: could have. Gang bangers, wife killers, baby killers, serial killers,

777
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: you name it. I mean, we've seen our share of bad,

778
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: tough cases here in northeastern Pennsylvania. That's for sure.

779
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 3: When you're a prosecutor, you actually go to the crime scene.

780
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so we would have so our office and

781
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: Loser County has about anywhere from twenty five to thirty

782
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: assistant das. And of that twenty five to thirty, I

783
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: would say five of us are primarily homicide prosecutors, although

784
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: we do a little bit of everything. There would be

785
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: usually a rotating group of five that would go out

786
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: to murder scenes. So basically I'd be out to dinner

787
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: with my wife and kids. The phone would ring and say, hey,

788
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: we have a murder. You got to go. They got

789
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: quite used to this over the years. I would run

790
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: everybody home and get out and next thing you know,

791
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: you go from having dinner or just sitting around the

792
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: house to standing over a dead body trying to put

793
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: it together, and all hell breaks loose. That never got old.

794
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,919
Speaker 1: I have to say, like you're adrenaline gets going. It's

795
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: a wild thing to go from normal life to that

796
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: in a matter of minutes.

797
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 3: So do you talk about So let's talk about your book.

798
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 3: And obviously you're going to talk about these cases in

799
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 3: the book, but you also talk about like what was

800
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 3: going on behind the scenes in your real life too

801
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 3: as you were going through these cases.

802
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: Yes, so the book is called I'm Just like an

803
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: Italian Moms boy, I tell people, right, So the book

804
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: is about I never set out to write a book

805
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 1: about moms, but like, I can't tell my story without

806
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 1: talking about my mom. Who's awesome. My mom is Uh.

807
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: We lost our dad when I was very young, so

808
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm one of four boys, okay, and our dad got

809
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: sick when I was five, died when I was seven.

810
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: Good guy Maleman really battle cancer for two years. And

811
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: my mother, who was a homemaker with four kids, not

812
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: unlike being Jimmy Girling, not unlike you guys, just goes

813
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: out into the world and just lit the world on fire.

814
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: She became an executive in the insurance business, was very successful,

815
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: and she promised my dad she would never let anybody

816
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: hit us and she would educate us. So you could

817
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: imagine my dad's dying and he says, please make sure

818
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: you educate the boys like that's a pretty tall order,

819
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, but she did. And we used to tease

820
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: her and say, Ma, you know how we ever going

821
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: to repay her for everything you did? And she used

822
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: to say, when you encounter a mom that needs your help,

823
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 1: help her. And that's basically what the book is about.

824
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: So when I was going through some of the cases

825
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: that I wanted to highlight, there was a thief, you know,

826
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: there was always this mom whose child was killed, or

827
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: one of the cases I highlight is a mother who

828
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: killed or allowed her child to be killed, okay, by

829
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: failing to protect her child. So that's why the book

830
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: is called Mother's Murders and Motivation. So it's about these cases.

831
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: It's about my mom and the moms that I encountered

832
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: along the way, all the way way to South Carolina,

833
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: where I represented Don Drexel in the search thirteen year

834
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: search for Britney Drexel, which was a nationwide case. We

835
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: had met in the last three years of the search

836
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: for Britney. She was Eventually her body was found and

837
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 1: the individuals responsible were brought to justice six hundred miles

838
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: away from where I typically practice, I have to say,

839
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: So that's where the book kind of I don't want

840
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: to give away the end. It kind of gets to

841
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: that point. So we went from young rookie prosecutor mom's

842
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: boy to you know, this national case and we ended

843
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: up on Good Morning America and this now true crime

844
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: little world that we're dabbling in. But that's what the

845
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: book's about. So if your mom, if you love your

846
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: mother and your mother loves murder, this is the book

847
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: for you.

848
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 3: I was just thinking that, like, it's perfect timing. It's

849
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 3: coming out right before Mother's Day. Yes, it's like it's

850
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 3: so great.

851
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 4: I love better place to promote than Mother Knows Death.

852
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, So we have all this synergy here, right,

853
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: but you know, pre order it today and and and

854
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: they wanted us to promote the book. I said, who's

855
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: going to get excited about a book that's coming out

856
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: in five months? But interestingly enough, I spoke to four

857
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: hundred lawyers a couple of weeks ago, and like, a

858
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: lot of people ordered the book and it's exciting and

859
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: I'm really proud of of the book. And Nancy Grace

860
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: wrote the foreword, which is great, and she's a mom,

861
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: you know, and she was excited about the theme of

862
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 1: the book, and like I said, I'm a proud mother's

863
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: of mama's boy. You know I'm tougher because of it.

864
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: You know, I I am, you know, quick to tears,

865
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: and I'm an emotional guy. But let me tell you,

866
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 1: I mean I've I'm yet to encounter a guy that's

867
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: as tough as my mom. And it's funny you think

868
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: this young woman who worked so hard was really the

869
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: reason a lot of people are in jail today. I

870
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: prosecuted my cases because of the example she set, And

871
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: that's really what the book is about, you know. It's

872
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: it's homage to her and to those moms and cases.

873
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 1: So it was very therapeutic to write because I was

874
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: I never looked back. I'm not necessarily like a nostalgic person,

875
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 1: so to sit down and look back at all the

876
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: crazy cases and start to think like this was nuts.

877
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: While I was having a family, so a lot of

878
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: it's about that too, Like my wife and I got

879
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: married and started our family throughout these cases that are

880
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: in the book, so I talk about that too, and

881
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 1: so it was very eye opening time in my life.

882
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 1: And it's this book is very exposing of me too,

883
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: maybe too much.

884
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 4: So you're making me emotional as an Italian woman about

885
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:42,439
Speaker 4: to have a son.

886
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: So see that, Well, someday he'll someday he'll write a

887
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: book about you, Maria.

888
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 4: Right, hopefully, hopefully I don't damage it.

889
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: And my mother keeps that she's seventy. My mother's seventy

890
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: nine years old. She looks like she's fifty, right, and

891
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: she keeps saying, no, what is this up. I tell

892
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: her it's about you, and it's you know. I just

893
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: think she likes me to tell her I wrote a

894
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: book about her, but she has not read it yet.

895
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: No one's really read it yet.

896
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 3: I love that so much. I'm so I'm excited for this.

897
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 3: I think that the true crime world we know all

898
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 3: of these statistics. I don't know if I've ever told

899
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 3: you this story that not the past year, but the

900
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 3: first time we went to crime con we had Gabe

901
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 3: go with us and he was looking around and he's like,

902
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 3: I'm gonna tell all my friends about this place.

903
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 2: There's women everywhere, there's no dudes here. He just thought,

904
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 2: he was like mind blown.

905
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 3: He's like, there's and what crime Colon gets, like what

906
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 3: eight thousand people?

907
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: Seven thousand people?

908
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 3: And it's I don't know if if Kelly actually does

909
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 3: the statistics on who's attending. There's men that are presenting,

910
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 3: for sure, but as far as attendees, and we could

911
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 3: say that for our line too, it's mostly women. And

912
00:48:55,560 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 3: then when guys are there, they're usually there with their woman, right, Yeah, interesting,

913
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 3: So you have a good target audience with this book.

914
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: I'm planning on being there this year. I have not

915
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: been able to go because I've had conflicts every single time,

916
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: But this year i want to be there to promote

917
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: the book and I'm looking forward to it, and some

918
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: of our friends in the true crime world will be there,

919
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: and it's nice, you know, it's nice to get everybody

920
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: together and share stories. You know. I've really enjoyed this

921
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: journey and getting to know both of you, certainly, but

922
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: I had always been interested in getting on and I

923
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: love talking about these cases, especially cases I don't have

924
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: to personally prosecute. It's liberating to be able to stay

925
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: like instead of we will move on to the courthouse

926
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: and we will prove this case. To be honest about

927
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,760
Speaker 1: cases and say like this case sucks or this is weak,

928
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: you know, or comment on a case I don't necessarily

929
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: have to worry about prosecuting, and it's been fun to

930
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 1: get out of that prosecution. Mold call balls and strikes

931
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: on both sides of the ball. So that's why I

932
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: really enjoy it too.

933
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 3: So one question I asked that I like to ask

934
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 3: people that have jobs like yours, is what, like how

935
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 3: did this affect Because you have children that are young adults,

936
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 3: Let's say, how how did that affect you raising them

937
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 3: as far as how to stay vigilant and protect themselves,

938
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 3: Like I know that your sons in school things like that.

939
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 3: Just with everything crazy going on in the world and

940
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 3: everything you saw at your job, what are some things

941
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 3: that you won't let your kids do or that you're

942
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 3: just you know that you that affects your relationship with

943
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 3: your wife or anything when you go home after seeing

944
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 3: crazy things like that.

945
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: Well, so for with regard to my wife, Nicole, like

946
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: she Nicole is a professional. She was a chiropractor, I

947
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,479
Speaker 1: had a clinic and now is in the academic world.

948
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: So Nicole understood as a professional like she understood her career,

949
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: my career. You know, we were on that together. She's

950
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: always very supportive, but there were some dark times, like

951
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: you know, I would come home and like many days

952
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,439
Speaker 1: I'd play Mario Kart with the kids after a murder case.

953
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 1: But some days Daddy just felt like having a cigar

954
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: on the ports and not bothered, you know. So there

955
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: was tremendous understanding, but we didn't shelter the kids like

956
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: the cops used to be our detectives, Like our house

957
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: was kind of centrally located. Even when our kids were born,

958
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: the detectives were at the hospital, Like it was crazy.

959
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: It was just such a part of my life, like

960
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: and then as they were growing up, we would have

961
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: meetings at the house around my back porch, and like

962
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: an Italian house, as you know, is open to everyone,

963
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: like our kitchen, we would have state troopers there and

964
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: I'd be looking at a warrant for some warrant we're

965
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: executing the next day. So the kids were used to

966
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: I would have to say that we didn't hide the

967
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: amount of work Nicole and I had to do every day,

968
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: and they were not sheltered from what I was doing.

969
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: Although my daughter used to think I was fighting. We

970
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: were in oursel arts too, and my daughter used to

971
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: think I was physically fighting these defendants.

972
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,879
Speaker 3: So until we're Italian, that's how you talk to each other.

973
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 2: People think that I think.

974
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: I was boxing these people. You know, she think like,

975
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: don't get don't get hurt dead. You know.

976
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 3: Yeah. People sometimes say like, we don't like when you

977
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 3: and Maria fight, and we're like, we're not fighting, trust

978
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 3: me this, We're just talking.

979
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow.

980
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 3: You know, in an Italian house, it's like whoever talks

981
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 3: the loudest is the one that's heard kind of, you know,

982
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 3: you're talking over a lot of big personal.

983
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 4: Especially in the Philadelphia scrit and area. It's like a

984
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 4: way more overpower here than any others in the country.

985
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And but without the support of my brothers

986
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: and my friends and our family, I'm where I grew up.

987
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: We're in this, you know. And now we're taking it

988
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: a little bit more on a larger scale with television

989
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: and stuff. But this community really supported our das you know.

990
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: It would be nothing for us to go out and

991
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: people come over to the table and say hell low

992
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: and nice job on this. Because we have like two

993
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: news stations, two newspapers, like this is a big news area.

994
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 1: They followed all these cases. So I used to think

995
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: like I could be like a lawyer, suing slip and

996
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: fall cases and making all this money, but it was

997
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: pretty cool over the which I do now, but it

998
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 1: was pretty cool over those years to have people really

999
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: celebrating the work too, myself and my colleagues, so but

1000
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: I didn't shy away from them. I loved that for

1001
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: it and I love that people wanted to talk about

1002
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:31,800
Speaker 1: the cases that I have.

1003
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

1004
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 3: Well, thanks so much for being here today. We love

1005
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 3: you and we love your story and we're so excited

1006
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 3: about your book and all the best of luck to it.

1007
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. I love you both, and I'm enjoying

1008
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 1: this true crime journey and sharing it with both of you,

1009
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: and we'll do this again. I want to come on

1010
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: when the book is about to drop.

1011
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 4: Yes, please, and please tell everybody where they could follow

1012
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 4: you on your socials and your show.

1013
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: So I have on Jarifaratino dot com. There's Instagram and Facebook,

1014
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: same deal. And the book is Mother's Murders and Motivation,

1015
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: and my show is True Crime Boss when we do it.

1016
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: But I just mostly have been doing like lastnightrun Core TV.

1017
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: I like to do that stuff and stuff like this,

1018
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,720
Speaker 1: so when I do the show, it's True Crime Boss.

1019
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 2: Awesome.

1020
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, thank you, thank you, thank you

1021
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 3: for listening to Mother Nos Death. As a reminder, my

1022
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 3: training is as a pathologist assistant. I have a master's

1023
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 3: level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education. I

1024
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 3: am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed or

1025
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 3: treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of a

1026
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 3: licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social media

1027
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 3: accounts are designed to educate and inform people based on

1028
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 3: my experience working in pathology, so they can make healthier

1029
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 3: decisions regarding their life and wellbeing. Always remember that science

1030
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 3: is changing every day and the opinions expressed in this

1031
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 3: episode are based on my knowledge of those subjects at

1032
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 3: the time of publication. If you are having a medical problem,

1033
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 3: have a medical question, or having a medical emergency, please

1034
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 3: contact your physician or visit an urgent care center, emergency room.

1035
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 2: Or hospital.

1036
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 3: Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

1037
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 3: or anywhere you get podcasts.

1038
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 2: Thanks