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Speaker 1: If money is a lie, then everything is a lie.

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Speaker 1: Everything you think you've known is wrong if the money

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Speaker 1: is wrong. Because money makes up half of every equation.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to understand what's going on with

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Speaker 1: the banking collapse and the fractional reserve banking, what's going

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Speaker 1: on with the societal collapse, it all comes back down

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Speaker 1: to the miscommunication that happens within the money supply. That's

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Speaker 1: the topic of the conversation I am having today with

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Speaker 1: Luke Broyles. An amazing conversation looking back through history, charting

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Speaker 1: how technology and of course politics and finance have worked

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Speaker 1: together to bring the changes to both society today.

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Speaker 2: And more importantly, where it's going.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a look at energy use, We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about artificial intelligence AI, how bitcoin fits

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Speaker 1: into all of this, and so much more. Those an

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Speaker 1: amazing conversations, super fun to have, one you're going to

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Speaker 1: really enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and just jump right into the interview

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Speaker 2: with Luke Broyles.

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Speaker 1: Cool, well, let's dig into this. You know, I've listened

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Speaker 1: to a couple of year shows. I've seen your slide deck.

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Speaker 1: I love a lot of the points that you hit.

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Speaker 1: You know it really echoes a lot of what I

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Speaker 1: like to talk about, and I like to focus on

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Speaker 1: three topics, and really it's the convergence of those three.

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Speaker 1: So I figure we'll talk about it in that terms.

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Speaker 1: And so I like to look at I like to

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Speaker 1: talk about politics, finance, and technology, but I like to

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Speaker 1: look at the convergence of those three. Right, I put

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Speaker 1: out a big thesis like two years ago, I've talked

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Speaker 1: about a bunch and it's three revolutionary cycles.

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Speaker 2: So there's a political revolution cycle.

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Speaker 1: On a two and three year time frame, an eighty

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Speaker 1: year financial revolution cycle, and a fifty year technological revolution cycle,

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Speaker 1: and all three are resetting right now. And so I

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Speaker 1: don't want to talk about politics for politics sake, but

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Speaker 1: where politics intersects with these things? And so I think

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Speaker 1: they do obviously, and so we'll talk about that. You know,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about digging into that. Let's start on the

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Speaker 1: finance side of things, because that's the hot news for

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Speaker 1: right now. We obviously have a banking crisis happening right now,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty big. As a matter of fact, you

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Speaker 1: sent me over chart, which is pretty cool. We'll see

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Speaker 1: if we can get it put up in the post production.

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Speaker 1: But it basically illustrated, like all the banks that went

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Speaker 1: under in two thousand and eight and then the three

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Speaker 1: banks that we've had go under in the last six weeks,

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Speaker 1: and for anybody that doesn't know, the banking collapse has

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Speaker 1: been bigger and harder and just these last three banks

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Speaker 1: than it was back in the banking collapse of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight.

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Speaker 2: Kind of break that down for us.

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Speaker 3: What you're seeing there, Yeah, well, I mean what I'm

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Speaker 3: seeing it's really quite simple. Actually, the way I would

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Speaker 3: put is that in the ways that we were saying

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Speaker 3: just a moment ago, that if you have a form

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Speaker 3: of money that's based on lies and to seat and corruption,

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Speaker 3: you know, inevitably, if you try to wind down that

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Speaker 3: corruption eventually has to reset back to its original state.

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Speaker 3: You know. Essentially, if you have a form of money

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Speaker 3: that the way I would put it, is violating the

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Speaker 3: law of conservation of energy. You have a form of

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Speaker 3: money that's creating new pieces of paper. If you start

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Speaker 3: to take those pieces of paper out of the society,

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Speaker 3: that the rest of the pieces of paper have to

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Speaker 3: revert back to their correct value, which is zero. And

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Speaker 3: so what we're seeing is actually very predictable. It's that

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Speaker 3: what's happening is that liquid's being drained, money's flowing out

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Speaker 3: of the system because of quantitative tiny, because of interest

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Speaker 3: rates going up, because of people having less money to spend,

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Speaker 3: because of inflation. All these things are a result of

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Speaker 3: the negative externalities and negative consequences of this fiat system.

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Speaker 3: And so when that happens, eventually all the fluff below

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Speaker 3: it also has to go away. And so the reason

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Speaker 3: all these banks are having trouble all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: here is because when one goes, it has contagion effects

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Speaker 3: with others, and it's just a ripple effect from there,

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Speaker 3: bank after bank after bank. You know, it's it's funny

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Speaker 3: because you know, people often conflate bitcoin with crypto and

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Speaker 3: bitcoin with with cryptocurrencies, and whether irregardless whether someone thinks

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Speaker 3: the value or not, the reality is that they're all

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Speaker 3: reserve systems. And what we saw in last year with

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Speaker 3: Celsius and with FTX, and with a Luna and with

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Speaker 3: you know, dozens of others have exchanges and tokens and

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Speaker 3: releases of these things were that these were banks and

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Speaker 3: companies and funds and firms or however you want to

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Speaker 3: put them, that started going belly up and they had

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Speaker 3: all this contasion that just impacted everything, and the ones

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Speaker 3: that were the most exposed got flushed out the most.

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Speaker 3: And that's essentially what we're seeing in the banking sector here.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, it should be very alarming to people

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Speaker 3: that we've had those three major events in the last

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Speaker 3: few weeks. Because of the speed number one and because

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Speaker 3: of how little money's been tightened that the real concern

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Speaker 3: is not that these banks have gone under the real

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Speaker 3: concern is that they've gone under given the circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, given the circumstances like, for example, being

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Speaker 1: thrown lifelines, so they were given massive amounts of lifelines

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Speaker 1: and swap lines, you know, four letter words that the

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Speaker 1: FED made up to keep these banks of and yet

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Speaker 1: they still went under. I believe First Republic had gotten

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Speaker 1: thirteen billion from the by the the new facility that

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Speaker 1: they put together for them, and yet that didn't that

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Speaker 1: didn't save them. And you know, I think kind of

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Speaker 1: pointing to the kind of cryptocurrency collapse from Tara Luna

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Speaker 1: to then Celsius and et cetera all the way in

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Speaker 1: to the FTX. What I like about that is you

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Speaker 1: kind of had like this, like little microcosm that we

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Speaker 1: could see things happening like really really fast.

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Speaker 2: But it's the same thing that's happening just on a

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Speaker 2: bigger scale today.

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Speaker 1: And so you saw like the first token go down,

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Speaker 1: the first you know, domino to drop, and then the

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Speaker 1: bigger ones like FTX was like, oh, we're okay, we're

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Speaker 1: going to come in and bail all these other ones out.

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Speaker 1: We'll start buying them all up. But eventually the contagion

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Speaker 1: spread all the way up to them. And so we're

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Speaker 1: kind of seeing that now, like the smaller regional banks

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Speaker 1: are being gobbled up by the bigger banks. But you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll see who the last man standing is.

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Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, exactly. I mean, that's essentially what it

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Speaker 3: comes down to that if you have different it's a

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Speaker 3: fractional reserve systems. When one system it's you know and

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Speaker 3: hopeful most people watching the snow what I mean by

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Speaker 3: fractional reserve system. But when that declines back to its

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Speaker 3: value zero or near zero, what happens is someone else

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Speaker 3: absorbs that and then those losses and that pain gets

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Speaker 3: absorbed into the other one. And so it's like, what

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Speaker 3: is the only reason that all these other banks have

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Speaker 3: not collapsed like First Republic Bank or like Silicon Valley Bank.

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Speaker 3: What's the only reason. The only reason is because people

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Speaker 3: believe that these banks and these bank stocks can survive

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Speaker 3: into the future because their discrepancies and their fractional reserve

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Speaker 3: can be absorbed by the fractional reserve. The United States government,

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Speaker 3: I mean, Alan Greenspan infamously said in twenty eleven, I

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Speaker 3: believe that the United States will never default because the

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Speaker 3: United States can just keep printing money. And so right

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Speaker 3: now the hot topic is that, oh, what if the

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Speaker 3: US defaults in June, Oh my goodness, Secretary Treasury Secretary

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Speaker 3: Janet Yellen says that the US is going to default.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, is in the world. It's like, no,

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Speaker 3: the US is never going to default in nominal terms,

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Speaker 3: because we can just keep always printing money. We can

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Speaker 3: just expand the fractional reserve with ever lowering interest rates

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Speaker 3: and ever distortions from reality. And so I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's it's basically this giant game of hot potato or

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Speaker 3: musical chairs perhaps, and eventually it all comes down to

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Speaker 3: the currency at which all the banking and all the

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Speaker 3: economic and all the institutions are built. Atop and so

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Speaker 3: that's just what history bears out. And I think this

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Speaker 3: time is not different because humans aren't different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of laughed when you said that. I

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Speaker 1: talked about that Alan Greenspan saying that because I just

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Speaker 1: recorded a video before we jumped on here, and I

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Speaker 1: used that clip of him saying that exact same thing,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I highlighted the fact that while he

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Speaker 1: you know, he's correcting saying that, and I said the

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Speaker 1: same things as much, right, I mean, how can you

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Speaker 1: default if you have a money printer, everyone's going to

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Speaker 1: opt to print money as opposed to defaulty. But that's

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Speaker 1: that's not necessarily true because the fact is that the

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Speaker 1: actually has defaulted a number of times, you know, at

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Speaker 1: least twice since the Federal Reserve has been created. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three, nineteen seventy one, the government owed gold

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Speaker 1: and they didn't have the gold, and they closed the

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Speaker 1: gold window. They didn't pay the gold, they didn't pay

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Speaker 1: the debts, so you know, technically there have been defaults.

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Speaker 1: The other thing I'd like to just kind of point

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Speaker 1: out everybody listening is that there are two types of defaults, right,

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Speaker 1: So you have the deflationary bust, but you also have

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Speaker 1: an inflationary bust. And so when you print the money artificially,

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Speaker 1: like if I owe you a Mona lisea painting, but

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Speaker 1: then I just go print one on my inkjet printer

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Speaker 1: and give it to you, that's kind of a default, right.

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Speaker 2: I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't give you back the Mona Lisa. I gave

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Speaker 1: you a copy of one. So that's the default too.

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Speaker 1: I think that's important. You know, as you were talking

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Speaker 1: about things trending back down, I was kind of thinking

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Speaker 1: about a point that I had kind of made and

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Speaker 1: when I was kind of laying up my thesis a

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Speaker 1: while ago, but that you can suspend reality, but only

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Speaker 1: for so much time. And really, with enough money, you

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Speaker 1: can suspend the laws of the universe, so gravity, for example,

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Speaker 1: Right with enough money, I could create an airplane where

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Speaker 1: I can go up and get a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a break from gravity right for a little while. Or

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Speaker 1: I could you know, fly a wingsuit, and like I

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Speaker 1: can kind of bend the laws of gravity temporarily, but

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Speaker 1: it's always going to be there. And that's sort of

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Speaker 1: kind of what this Fiat money system has done. It's

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Speaker 1: allowed us to kind of temporarily bend the laws and

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Speaker 1: kind of bring all this wealth from the future into today.

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Speaker 2: But the reality of.

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Speaker 1: You have to produce before you consume is always going

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Speaker 1: to be there and it's going to snap back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a good metaphor. I think it's

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Speaker 3: important to say though, for people listening, that that is

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Speaker 3: just a metaphor, because ultimately a plane does obey the

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Speaker 3: laws of physics. You mean, not feel the effects of gravity,

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Speaker 3: but it still obeys the laws of physics. But when

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Speaker 3: you create money out thin air, you are actually breaking

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Speaker 3: the nature of reality because what you're doing is you're

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Speaker 3: saying that we have in mind they system. Within this system,

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Speaker 3: you can exchange pieces of paper for real things that

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Speaker 3: take a brute for physical cost to create, you know,

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Speaker 3: say food, or say gold, or say real estate. It

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Speaker 3: takes effort to build these things, and you exchange your

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Speaker 3: informational units, your currency for those things. And yet I

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Speaker 3: can create within air. And so I think it's a

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Speaker 3: good metaphor. But I think it's important emphasize that people

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Speaker 3: pretending like they can create money aka information of that

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Speaker 3: ledger out of thin air, they're essentially saying I can

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Speaker 3: create gold out of cin air. I can create real

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Speaker 3: estate on centner and that is not in line with reality.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I guess if you think about it just

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Speaker 1: in terms of money, right, but money is only a

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Speaker 1: medium of exchange, so wealth is not money, right, So

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Speaker 1: wealth is goods and services, and so at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, we have productivity that would be measured

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Speaker 1: by production producing goods and services. Money is just that

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Speaker 1: medium exchange should do that, and so through financial engineering

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Speaker 1: they could goose the system enough to actually get more

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Speaker 1: productivity out of it temporarily. So if you just look

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Speaker 1: at currency units, sure of course, but I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: you know, overall wealth and productivity. And so for a

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Speaker 1: period of time, you can steal wealth from the future

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Speaker 1: bring it to the current in an increased productivity. But

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Speaker 1: then it just like the law of diminishing returns, eventually

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Speaker 1: it starts working backwards on you. And now it takes

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Speaker 1: a dollar worth of debt to get fifty cents of growth,

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Speaker 1: you know, or a dollar worth of debt to get

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Speaker 1: twenty five cents of growth, and right, so it starts

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Speaker 1: to diminish kind of down. So to your point, yes,

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Speaker 1: you can't create gold out of thin air.

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Speaker 2: But I was talking about the kind of wealth. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. There's a million ways you can look at it,

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Speaker 2: which is why we good way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well I understand it better now and basically what

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Speaker 3: you're describing as social security.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, And I was saying, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of back to the law of sowing and reaping, right,

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Speaker 1: Like the law of sowing and reaping states that we

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Speaker 1: must produce before we consume. By creating money from thin air,

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Speaker 1: it allows us to consume something today that maybe we

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Speaker 1: haven't produced, bending that law, but eventually it snaps back. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I know you were talking about the

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Speaker 1: fractional reserve system. What do you think about a fractional

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Speaker 1: reserve system on a sound monetary system? So, I mean

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Speaker 1: a lot of people in bitcoin think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: fractional reserve is bad, fractional reserve can't exist. What's your

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Speaker 1: thoughts on a fractional reserve system on a bitcoin standard

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Speaker 1: or on a sound money standard.

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Speaker 3: That's a very good question. I've been thinking about that

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Speaker 3: over the last few days and weeks. Actually, hal Finni

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Speaker 3: back in twenty ten didn't describe banks or you know,

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Speaker 3: a form of banks in the future that could survive

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Speaker 3: a top of bitcoin. Katlin Long also has been you know,

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Speaker 3: sounding out alarm more or less, and I've been talking

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Speaker 3: a lot with Peter Dunworth. He's a you know, he's

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Speaker 3: a net worth advisor over in Australia. He has an

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Speaker 3: accounting background, and when he and I have talked extensively

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Speaker 3: about that, and I think my best answer is that

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't fully know what I think

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Speaker 3: about that. I do believe that a fully reserved system

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Speaker 3: is many orders of magnitude and possibly infinitely more stable

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Speaker 3: than a fractional reserve, and perhaps there is a use

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Speaker 3: for fractional reserve systems a top of fully reserved money,

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Speaker 3: But I don't know. That's a difficult argument to make,

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Speaker 3: and I think ultimately, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: for me personally, while it's a huge fascination of mind

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Speaker 3: to think about that question, I think ultimately what I

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Speaker 3: do know is that I know that the money has

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Speaker 3: to be fully reserved because as soon as you create

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Speaker 3: fractional reserves, you're manipulating things and distorting things, and so

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Speaker 3: you know, perhaps in the future there's something that I

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Speaker 3: can't quite figure out right now, But as far as

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Speaker 3: money goes, no it has to be full reserved. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, Mysis talks about the difference of commodity credit versus

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Speaker 1: circulating credit, and so the difference of commodity credit versus

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Speaker 1: circulating credit is. Commodity credit is where I create ten

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Speaker 1: bushels of wheat that I want to take to the

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Speaker 1: market and sell for a dollar each. But I decide

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Speaker 1: to give you credit on one bushel of wheat. So

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Speaker 1: now I've extended you credit, but it's based off of

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Speaker 1: the commodity that I have. So I am deciding to

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Speaker 1: withhold so that you can have, right, and so we

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Speaker 1: can increase the purchasing power without increasing Some would argue

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Speaker 1: that would be increasing the monetary supply because now you're

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Speaker 1: able to buy with money you don't have. But it

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Speaker 1: came from my pocket, not out of thin air, right,

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Speaker 1: But it does increase the monetary supply. So then you

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Speaker 1: just play that out. So I created ten bushels of wheat,

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Speaker 1: I give you three on credit. You turn and give

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Speaker 1: somebody two on credit. They turn and give somebody one

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Speaker 1: on credit. All of those bushels of wheat were created

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Speaker 1: with off of credit, So the monetary units expanded in

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Speaker 1: the system, but it was all based off of savings technically, yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to circulating credit, which is where then we

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Speaker 1: just create money out of thin air, which is obviously

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Speaker 1: a big difference in a big distortion. I saw when

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Speaker 1: you were talking about you know, so then if you

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Speaker 1: if you artificially increase the money supply. You know, I

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Speaker 1: tend to go with the Austrian viewpoint of that. So

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Speaker 1: just like a balloon, if I was going to inflate

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Speaker 1: a balloon, I'm increasing the volume of air in that balloon.

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Speaker 2: If I'm creating, if.

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Speaker 1: I'm increasing the volume of money, I'm inflating the money supply,

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Speaker 1: which then leads to inflation of prices. You know, I

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Speaker 1: saw you making a point talking about adjusted for inflation

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Speaker 1: and how we've gotten used to that kind of terminology

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Speaker 1: and what that really means.

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Speaker 2: Why don't you break that down for.

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Speaker 3: Us well, adjusted for inflation, what you're really saying is

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Speaker 3: adjusting for the rate of theft, or adjusting for the

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Speaker 3: misinformation of the information. So it's it's more or less

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Speaker 3: a nonsensical term once you really understand that inflation is theft,

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Speaker 3: because inflation inherently is theft. It's not just like theft,

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Speaker 3: it's another in the same way that robbery or extortion

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Speaker 3: are theft, it's the same thing with inflation. You're printing

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Speaker 3: money and stealing purchasing power from others to give it

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Speaker 3: to yourself. So yeah, so the term adjusted for inflation

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Speaker 3: is kind of a paradoxical or a nonsensical term in

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Speaker 3: that regard, But it's also becoming much more common, especially

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Speaker 3: since the nineteen seventies, because inflation is becoming such a

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Speaker 3: more entrench phenomena and a much wider phenomena across the globe.

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Speaker 3: Since the United States defaulted off the gold standard and

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Speaker 3: turned their money into turned our money into debt based money,

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Speaker 3: inflation is becoming a larger and larger issue, and so

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Speaker 3: it's being talked about more so. Really, it's a nonsensical term,

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Speaker 3: nonsensical idea, and one of the things that people fail

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Speaker 3: to realize about inflation, and this has been talked about

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Speaker 3: many others before me, but it's important to her mind

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Speaker 3: is that everyone has their own inflation rate. You know,

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Speaker 3: everyone lives in a different part of the world, different

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Speaker 3: part of the country. Everyone consumes different products and goods

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Speaker 3: and services, everyone buys different assets and different savings technologies,

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Speaker 3: and so everyone's inflation rate is different based on their

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Speaker 3: given basket of goods and services, and so I think

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Speaker 3: this idea of accounting for inflation quote unquote, I mean

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Speaker 3: pretty much you can't trust any of those charts information

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Speaker 3: implicitly because you can't implicitly trust the number of currency

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Speaker 3: units that are a good point to be accurate or

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Speaker 3: consistent over any duration a period of time. So the

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Speaker 3: way I put it when it comes to asset prices,

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Speaker 3: which you mentioned at the beginning of your question, is

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Speaker 3: that you know, house prices and stocks and gold even

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Speaker 3: all logically should come down in price because we all

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Speaker 3: can tell that stock valuations is too high. We all

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Speaker 3: can tell that cap rates in real estate are way

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Speaker 3: too low, that valuations are way too high.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think price could come down. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 3: it's like, if we are pricing these things in terms

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Speaker 3: of a currency that is devoid of logic, why should

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Speaker 3: we expect the price of these things to be anything

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Speaker 3: but illogical. So I don't know. To me, it just

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Speaker 3: seems that everything in relation to fiat currencies will just

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Speaker 3: continue to appreciate, and everything including those assets will just

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Speaker 3: continue to depreciate when they're valued in terms of the

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Speaker 3: hardest and the most scarce money in the world, which

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Speaker 3: in this case happens to be bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it depends on to the point you

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Speaker 1: say that prices should come down. What depends on how

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Speaker 1: much money continue to print obviously, right, It's like.

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Speaker 2: What Jeff Jeff Boo talks about. Right.

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Speaker 1: So an abundance of money is a scarcity and everything else, right,

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Speaker 1: or scarcity of money and abundance everywhere. So if they

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Speaker 1: continue to create an overabundance of money, then you would

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Speaker 1: consider you would you would see a scarcely everything else

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Speaker 1: because people go buy up all those goods and services,

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Speaker 1: which then push his assets up. And it's the most

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Speaker 1: scarce assets that will go up the most. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: real estate in Austin went up way faster than real

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Speaker 1: estate in Missouri, right because Texas is a much more

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Speaker 1: desirable area. Austin's fast growing city. However, in Austin it

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Speaker 1: went up about thirty you know, about thirty five percent

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Speaker 1: in the last year and a half.

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Speaker 2: But on Lake.

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Speaker 1: Austin or Lake Travis lakefront property, there's only so many

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Speaker 1: houses on the lake. I have a friend that bought

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Speaker 1: a house for ten million, and about a year later

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Speaker 1: sold it for twenty five So it went up even

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Speaker 1: way faster than Austin because it's so much more scarce, right,

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Speaker 1: and so you kind of have these scarce assets and

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Speaker 1: so to your point, and it's exactly right, everybody has

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Speaker 1: their own inflation rate based off of what they're buying.

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Speaker 1: When did you have this realization? Most people still haven't

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Speaker 1: seemed to have woken up to this fact that price

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Speaker 1: is going up isn't necessarily a good thing. I think

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Speaker 1: I made a tweet a long time ago I said

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Speaker 1: the greatest trick the Fed ever pulled was convincing people

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Speaker 1: that the money rate needed to expand forever and that

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Speaker 1: asset price is going up was a good thing.

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Speaker 2: You seem to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: At what point did that kind of click for you?

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Speaker 3: To be completely honest, it's very difficult for me to

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Speaker 3: think in the same line of thought that I used to.

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Speaker 3: And that's one of the things that I think is

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Speaker 3: important to remind people that are within the bitcoin, within

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Speaker 3: the Austrian economics space, is that it's like, at some

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Speaker 3: point we didn't understand this. And I think for me

403
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Speaker 3: five years ago, when I didn't understand this. I think

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Speaker 3: I have a very hard time articulating this to myself,

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Speaker 3: and more or less probably of the same intelligence and

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Speaker 3: the same background and the same experiences then and now,

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Speaker 3: but it's just that my brain wasn't thinking of that line,

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Speaker 3: so it's hard for me to pin it down. But

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Speaker 3: for me, I really started looking into bitcoin seriously in

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Speaker 3: late twenty nineteen March of twenty twenty. Of course, like

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Speaker 3: most people in the world, you began questioning a lot

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Speaker 3: of realities and things that you were told to trust implicitly,

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Speaker 3: and even if you didn't disagree with them, you're just

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Speaker 3: asking questions. And so I really began diving into it

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Speaker 3: more late twenty nineteen, and then, of course as the

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Speaker 3: pandemic happened, only more and more I dove into it,

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Speaker 3: and also into the politics and the cultural phenomena that

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Speaker 3: were happening in twenty twenty, and really my attention was

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Speaker 3: going in a bunch of different directions. This problem, that problem,

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Speaker 3: that problem, that problem, and over the course of the

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Speaker 3: end of twenty twenty, beginning of twenty twenty one, and

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Speaker 3: finally culminating for me personally, probably early twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 3: is when I realized all these problems are being compounded

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Speaker 3: and amplified and magnified by distortions, corruptions, and manipulations and

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Speaker 3: the base layer of society and value allocation in society,

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Speaker 3: which is money. And so then for me, that was

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Speaker 3: really the moment when I understood that no matter who's

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Speaker 3: in control of money, that money inevitably has to be

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Speaker 3: corrupted because all humans are susceptible to corruption, and I

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Speaker 3: would argue corrupt, So the only money that makes sense

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Speaker 3: is one now sort of humans. And that's that really

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Speaker 3: stuck it for me when I understood that, and that's

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Speaker 3: why that's one of the things I emphasized the most

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Speaker 3: to people, that you can't have humans be in charge

435
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 3: of it. It's nonsensical.

436
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's kind of the that's kind

437
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: of the fix, the money fix the world, so to speak,

438
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: right or then as bigcoins would say, uh, bitcoin fixes that.

439
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 1: You know, I've talked about it. I try to use

440
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 1: an analogy like if you had this like giant oak tree,

441
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 1: and on the top of this oak tree, you had

442
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 1: a thousand leaves, right or five thousand leaves, and that'd

443
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: be every problem in society and we could sit in

444
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: there and plick each one, from the obesity rate to

445
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: the divorce rate, to the incarceration rate, to whatever.

446
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 3: Right.

447
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: We can sit there and pluck each one. But then

448
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: you have at the bottom, at the base, you have

449
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 1: the root, right, and that root is the money supply, right,

450
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 1: and by by corrupting that, you create all these problems.

451
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: So rather than deal with it one, one problem at

452
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: a time, leaves on top, just get right to get

453
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: to the root of things, which is a.

454
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 2: Good way to do it.

455
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: You talked about you know, I know you've talked a

456
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: lot about technology, right, and how technology is really also

457
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: changing things in regards to that.

458
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 2: Why don't you lay that out for us?

459
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 3: Unlike money, it's it's very difficult, I believe, to quantify

460
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 3: the total value of all the technology you're all the

461
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 3: prosperity in the world, because it's always changing and it's

462
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 3: really subjective. You quantify it a number of years lived,

463
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 3: the number of humans alive that you know. It's very difficult,

464
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 3: but I think probably one of the best ways to

465
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 3: communicate to someone the total productive value of a given

466
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 3: society in a given era is there energy production and consumption.

467
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 3: And so if we look back in history and we

468
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: are to take a line an estimate of the total

469
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 3: amount of energy production consumption and map that out over time.

470
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 3: What we see is a continuously growing line at an

471
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 3: exponential rate, and the rate of expansion has been increasing

472
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 3: faster and faster and faster.

473
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 1: And in the amount of energy that the world is using, yes, yes.

474
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 3: The total amount of energy the world is using. And

475
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 3: in thousands of years ago, by far, the largest form

476
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 3: of energy we were using was burning wood, that was

477
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 3: cutting down trees, cutting down force and burning wood. And

478
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 3: as over time we have found better and better and

479
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 3: better energy sources, we have been able to do multiple things.

480
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,360
Speaker 3: Number One, we've been able to use more energy because

481
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 3: now we're getting more efficiency per unit used number one.

482
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 3: And number two, that means we can increase our global population.

483
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 3: Energy usage in population obviously are intrinsically linked. And I

484
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 3: would are you're in a feedback loop that the more

485
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,719
Speaker 3: cheap energy we can have, the more humans we can have,

486
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 3: and the more humans that there are, the greater the

487
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 3: incentive and the demand for new innovations and cheap energy.

488
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 3: And so it's that beautiful feedback loop that just keeps

489
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: society going on that trend. And so I think One

490
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 3: of the things I think people struggle with today is

491
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 3: they're looking forward in the future of how many humans

492
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 3: are going to be and how much energy we're all

493
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: going to use, and it's just it's hard to understand, like,

494
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,959
Speaker 3: how is the world going to survive? And one of

495
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 3: my principles I keep outlining online is simply that we

496
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 3: almost certainly have less in common with that future than

497
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 3: the past, and so it's almost nonsensical to be overly

498
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: terrified or or have these apocalyptic visions of this future

499
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 3: when inherently we should not be able to envision it.

500
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: Is that what does that mean we have more in

501
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: common with our future than we do with the past.

502
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 3: Well, let's take a simple thought experiment. Let's let's think

503
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 3: about this conversation we're having right now, Mark, and is

504
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 3: compare it to us, you know, if we were a

505
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 3: time travel one hundred years ago, which is obviously not

506
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,479
Speaker 3: possible at least yet, But if we just think about that, like,

507
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 3: what are the big differences in the laste hundred hundred

508
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: and fifty years or so. Well, today we are communicating

509
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: via this digital platform. My computer right here is plugged

510
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 3: into the wall, and what's it really plugging into well,

511
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 3: it's and plug into an electrical socket, and it's like,

512
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 3: how do you explain the Internet to somebody from a

513
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 3: hundred fifty years ago? How do you explain this cord

514
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 3: moving this energy from the wall to my computer? And

515
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 3: then where does the energy in the wall come from?

516
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 3: Then you have, now, all of a sudden, you're explaining

517
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: nuclear planets, in nuclear energy. Now you're explaining coal, and

518
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 3: you're explaining all these technologies that build atop each other

519
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 3: that are just impossible to explain to somebody from a

520
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: couple of hundred years ago. And it's not that they're stupid.

521
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 3: In fact, there's a strong argument that people one hundred

522
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 3: years ago were smarter than we are today. But it's

523
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 3: just that they can't understand it. And even taking it

524
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 3: more simply like a light bulb, how do you explain

525
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 3: somebody that's only known wax candles how a light bulb works.

526
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 3: You have to explain dozens of individual technological innovations and

527
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: processes that ultimately make the better the world a better place.

528
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: You know, if I told someone all these things make

529
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 3: light and luminosity cheaper, faster, better and better for the planet,

530
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 3: people would have impossibility, understanding that because in their given

531
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: technology it would take so much energy and so much

532
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 3: effort to produce one light bulb, they would just do

533
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 3: the simple arithmetic and say that, you know, if we

534
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: were to create one hundred thousand light bulbs, we would

535
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 3: use all the resources in the world. And that's just

536
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 3: you know, And so the same thing with the locomotive

537
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 3: and the horse, and I would argue the same thing

538
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 3: with bitcoin and other currencies that we have today. Fea currencies,

539
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 3: it's much cheaper, it's much more energy efficient to just

540
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 3: print money out of thin air, But ultimately I would

541
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 3: argue that for society it's much less efficient in its entirety,

542
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 3: and ultimately bitcoin has that potential to change the world

543
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,959
Speaker 3: more in the next couple decades. Then the world has

544
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 3: changed the last couple of decades in many ways. So

545
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 3: basically the long answer short is being that if our

546
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: everyday lives, habits, activities, work, and leisure are more different

547
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 3: in the last hundred years than the nineteen hundred years

548
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 3: previous to that or the thousands of years previous to that,

549
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: then I think it's reasonable to assume that a couple

550
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: of decades from now or sent you from now, the

551
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 3: degree of change will be just as dramatic as it

552
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: was with the past.

553
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: So the rate of change is happening faster than it was.

554
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: I think that's sure. That's not a big argument to make.

555
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: So previous to the Industrial Revolution, right, there wasn't Basically

556
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: the whole world was dirt as of like three hundred

557
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: years ago, right, we all lived in dirt. We had

558
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: some mudhouses and like that was that was basically it.

559
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: You know, I've often thought, you know, from you know,

560
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: from the Industrial Revolution until now and really just over

561
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: the last century century and a half, the rate of

562
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: change from I mean, imagine from all of humanity. People

563
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: got around on horses and then to have a car, right,

564
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: and then you have a car, and then you have

565
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: an airplane, and then you got a space shuttle. Then

566
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: you have the Internet and all these things, and it's

567
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: like all this change happened. Then it seemed to kind

568
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: of like slow down and stagnate. But I have to say,

569
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: you know, seeing the rise of what's happening with AI

570
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: and chat, GPT and those types of things, as well

571
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: as bitcoin and just decentralized networks, both decentralized monitary networks

572
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: like bitcoin and decentralized communication networks like Noster.

573
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: And then you add in the air component.

574
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm actually thinking, dang, this next five years, next ten

575
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: years could be massive in change. Just when I thought

576
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: things maybe couldn't progress as much as they have been,

577
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: it looks like we might actually be speeding up into

578
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: that change.

579
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: That Are those some of the things that you're looking

580
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: at to say that.

581
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think your point about things slowing down,

582
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 3: I think there's a huge amount of truth today. And

583
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: often that's one of the things that got yelled at

584
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: on Twitter. People are like, oh, you're crazy or an idiot,

585
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 3: things are slowing down whatever. And I actually think that

586
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 3: there's a huge amount of truth to that, because what's.

587
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: Really happened that they are slowing down or they're not.

588
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 3: That in some ways are slowing down. And I would

589
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 3: argue that the existence of theft currency or political currency

590
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 3: units or fiat currency, depending on your term, is actually

591
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 3: misdirecting incentives away from productivity and away from efficiency, because

592
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: if you think about it, and you give more and

593
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 3: more power to the issuers of currency and those that

594
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 3: decree monetary policy, there's a greater financial incentive to direct

595
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 3: energy towards speculation and towards management and towards wealth, overseeing

596
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 3: wealth instead of creating new wealth versus. If you had

597
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: a form of money that you can only acquire it

598
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: via production and via offering value to society, then what

599
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 3: do you do. Well, Obviously, you incentivize people to work more.

600
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 3: It's like the same thing with stimulus checks in the pandemic.

601
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: More you have money being created in there, the greater

602
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 3: the incentive you give people to stand in line and

603
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 3: collector twelve hundred dollars from their local administrator or whatever.

604
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you could also argue that if it wasn't

605
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: for all that money and all those speculators, maybe the iPhone.

606
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: Didn't pop up, and then the internet didn't grow as fast. Right.

607
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: Obviously, in the late nineties in the dot com era,

608
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: the Internet grew really fast from all those speculators, and

609
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: a lot of it was misallocated capital, to your point,

610
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: and it was destroyed.

611
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: But you know, probably a lot of.

612
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: That money maybe you know, when when a lot of

613
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: that was destroyed, it was then gobbled up by the

614
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: few remaining companies that were able to buy that technology

615
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: for cheap and kind of take it to the next level.

616
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: And you might also argue the same in Silicon Valley.

617
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: Today with Uber and you know, Airbnb and whatever those

618
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: technology platforms are.

619
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: And even into chat GPT today. Right, So I think

620
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: I don't know.

621
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: The way I kind of look at it is everything

622
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: has a trade off, right, and so is it better

623
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: to sacrifice the fast growth.

624
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: For the long term day just being done to society?

625
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 3: No? No, I don't think so, because I think there's

626
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: a point to what you're saying that the more people

627
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 3: need to rely on investing, what are they really doing.

628
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 3: They're not really wanting to invest or wanting to outpace

629
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,719
Speaker 3: the rate of theft with currency. So and I think

630
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,239
Speaker 3: that's one thing that people that are anti bitcoin and

631
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: pro modern monetary theory miss is that they think that, oh,

632
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: we have to destroy the currency in order to incentivize

633
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: investment and forward thinking because you know, if they can't

634
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 3: save in the currency, they have to invest in a

635
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: future company. Yeah, And I understand why they think that.

636
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: I just think that it's absurd and incorrect and nonsensical

637
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 3: because it's like, why does the universe require a rate

638
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 3: of theft in order for you know, It's like you

639
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 3: don't have to bake an entropy via violence and monopoly

640
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 3: of monopoly of violence. You don't have to like bake

641
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 3: an enterprey via theft in order to incentivize people to

642
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,959
Speaker 3: think about the future. Time has enough enterprey on its

643
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 3: own without the theft of monetary value.

644
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I found is like the more you study

645
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: the Keynsians and the modern monetary theorists, it's like they've

646
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: disregarded all human nature for the most part, and they've

647
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: disregarded things like to your point, right, they feel like

648
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: they need to incentivize us to spend. Otherwise everyone's going

649
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: to hold their money and there's gonna be no velocity

650
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: and the whole thing falls apart. It's like humans don't

651
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: need to be incentivized to spend all. The problem is

652
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: how do we incentivize people to save?

653
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: Right, Like we already.

654
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: Spend and to your point, as far as innovating as well, Right,

655
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: I co wrote that book with Fetzki, the The Uncommished Manifesto,

656
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: and we make the case in there that capitalism is

657
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: just a natural emergent process that humans try to use

658
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: our scarce resources in a more efficient manner. And so

659
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: we're trying to get more for less right leverage. And

660
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: so I was tired of carrying one brick at a time,

661
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: So I invented a whilbearw so I can carry ten

662
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: bricks at the time. And so we're always going to

663
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: be trying to do that. We don't need anybody whipping.

664
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: Us in the back trying to incentivize to do that.

665
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: And I think, again, it just goes back to that

666
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: kind of that the wrong perspective on humans.

667
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 3: And ultimately, this gets to one of my other major

668
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 3: points to make very frequently, was that I believe that,

669
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 3: you know, humans have a correct nature in them. And

670
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: so ultimately, if I believe that you can't legislate morality,

671
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: you can't. You can't force people via violence to just

672
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 3: obey and now they'll be moral. I mean, ultimately, that's

673
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: why communism doesn't work, because communism can only thrive if

674
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 3: you steal everything from everyone for all time, essentially.

675
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: Put everybody in a cage.

676
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, put everybody in a cage. And that's why it

677
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 3: doesn't work. You know, it's capitalism is not does not

678
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 3: mean that people are moral or good or you know,

679
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: you know that doesn't that's not what it's saying. It's

680
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 3: just saying that it's the emergent system of it essentialized.

681
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 3: It's an emergent inevitability of decentralized economics and millions and

682
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 3: billions and trillions of individual choices from people in a

683
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 3: free market. And if you try to distort that or

684
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 3: crush that in the name of more, well, you just

685
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 3: put everyone in a cage. And so it's the same

686
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 3: thing with communism. It's the same thing. I know you

687
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 3: mentioned politics, but it's the same thing with the green

688
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 3: movement and revolution right now. One of the reasons why

689
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 3: I believe people are so against it is because one

690
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 3: of the most commonly touted propaganda pieces, frankly and moving

691
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 3: that forward, is saying, oh, we got to crush energy,

692
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 3: we got to crush energy production. And ultimately what is

693
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 3: happening is it's essentially a way of saying that we

694
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,439
Speaker 3: got to make the people that need energy most, being

695
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 3: those and developing nations, we have to crush their ability

696
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: to live and thrive because of this threat that we're

697
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: going to manifest. And so, like you said, they're trade

698
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,919
Speaker 3: offs to everything. It's just I think there are some

699
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 3: trade offs that can only result as from a series

700
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 3: of actions that are inherently, inherently unjustifiable.

701
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

702
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: Now, you talked about two competing technologies with AI and bitcoin,

703
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 1: and so kind of the point that I made earlier,

704
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: like the amount the kind of arrival of chat, GBT

705
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: and all the other spinoffs that have happened because of that,

706
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: and then looking at these decentralized networks and protocols, I

707
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: see just all of a sudden, as I thought things

708
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 1: were slowing down, it looks.

709
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 2: Like we're gonna have this rapid period of growth.

710
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: There's a lot happening in that AI space right now, specifically,

711
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: and there's lots of spinoffs and shootoffs and things happening there.

712
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: But you talked about how they're competing technologies, and Bitcoin

713
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: is for freedom and AI is for censorship and control.

714
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 2: What does that mean?

715
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know exactly which piece of content you're

716
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 3: referring to.

717
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 2: I don't know if that was in the deck that

718
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: you sent over.

719
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, well perhaps they did. But oh, perhaps I'm

720
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 3: talking in terms of scarcity, because ultimately.

721
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: What is You didn't say AI is a technology for

722
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: censorship and control?

723
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 3: Well, I think I think it will be used for

724
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: that if that technology is built a top of a

725
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: system that incentivizes further amounts of centralization, which which that's

726
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 3: vat currency.

727
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: Okay.

728
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: I think there's a strong case made that if AI

729
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: and other technologies of the future are used in ways,

730
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 3: are used in ways on top of a system that

731
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 3: is decentralized and only provide value to people, and it

732
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,959
Speaker 3: can only acquire value from the cells via providing value

733
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 3: for other people, I think there's a possibility it can

734
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 3: have great good for humanity. I think it's just ultimately

735
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 3: what's the incentive structure underlying that. And I think right

736
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 3: now it's definitely the case that AI is more terrifying

737
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 3: than exciting because it's being used by people, governments, institutions, corporations,

738
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 3: and very wealthy individuals who are thriving off the rent

739
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 3: sinking of Fiat currency. So I do think they're competing

740
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 3: in that moral sense. However, I don't think that's necessarily

741
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 3: an absolute, but in terms of scarcy, it is an

742
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 3: absolute because what AI does is it creates more of everything.

743
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 3: It creates more information, more ideas, more essays that people

744
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 3: who then use to cheat on their curriculums. AI is

745
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 3: creating more information and ultimately that will be demine aid

746
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 3: it into the form of money that's the most scarce.

747
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I certainly we have seen it

748
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: being centralized, and certainly it could become a tool for

749
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: censorship and control.

750
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: I mean, if.

751
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: Everybody starts to outsource their resource, the research to an AI,

752
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: chat GBT, whatever that may be. If everybody starts to

753
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: outsource their research into that and that and they just

754
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: take whatever answer gets spit back out to them, then

755
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: of course who controls that has a lot of censorship

756
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: and control ability. And we've already seen seen many many

757
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: cases of that. How how biased you know, chat GBT

758
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: has been already in a bunch of cases. I'm hopeful,

759
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: you know, I've been watching kind of what Stable Diffusion

760
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: has been doing with MD and he talks about creating

761
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: a decentralized AI and an AI that everybody could run

762
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: individually on their phone or their computer, so we each

763
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: have our own AI instead of one giant.

764
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 2: One that's in the cloud being controlled.

765
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: And so I'm hopeful that something like that will take off,

766
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, as opposed to having that that sense sup

767
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: of control. But I do see, you know, in the

768
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 1: sovereign individual I'm sure you've probably read that book.

769
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: If you haven't, you should you laugh.

770
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 3: I know, yeah, I know, yeah, yeah, it's good.

771
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: So in the newer version, Peter thield rewrote the forward

772
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: of that book. In the original book he didn't, but

773
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: he talked about basically kind of that and how bitcoin

774
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: and AI are sort of at opposite ends, right because

775
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: bitcoin is this decentralized kind of technology, and AI is

776
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: this centralized technology. So I would say, I hope that

777
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: we get some sort of decentralized AI that can be

778
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: used with these decentralized networks, and then maybe we have

779
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: a hopeful future. Otherwise, yeah, it's looking pretty scary.

780
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 3: Well yeah, that's the ultimate goal of bitcoins, to create

781
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 3: sovereign individuals and people that are sovereign over their own

782
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 3: monetary energy and their own time and their own attention.

783
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 3: And the thing with AI, and I know that's the

784
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 3: hot topic right now, but it's also true with social

785
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: media that these algorithms and everything else, it's basically all

786
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 3: fighting for attention, and it's all fighting for a monetary energy,

787
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 3: and that's all fighting for our time. And you know,

788
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: right now, including a social media platforms is all centralized

789
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 3: and so inherently with a financial paradigm that incentivized the centralization.

790
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 3: It's just going to become centralized. And so that's the

791
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 3: beauty with bitcoins that if that fight is one, then

792
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 3: all these other fights become ten times or one hundred

793
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 3: times easier because the incentives are now aligned in that

794
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 3: direction towards being sovereign and away from being a puppet.

795
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: I want to something else that in your chart pack,

796
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: you had shown a bunch of charts really showing the

797
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: divergence of many factors in society and finance from nineteen seventy,

798
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: which is of course when we went off the gold

799
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: standard and everything went off the rails at that point.

800
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: And I mentioned some of them before, So not just

801
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: productivity getting lost or wages being stagnant, the obviously the

802
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: amount of debt has blown up through the roof, et cetera,

803
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: but even the societal impacts which as OBCD rate, incarceration rate,

804
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: you know one, you know, unwed mother rate, you know,

805
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: all these different society impact things that we have. But

806
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: I'm curious a couple of charts that you had shown

807
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: in there was the income inequality. How that one's blown

808
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 1: up since then, And I'm curious your take just on

809
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: that specifically on this income inequality. Like obviously with the

810
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: Fiat monetary system that we have, you know, those closest

811
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: to the money supply I have the biggest benefit. The

812
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: ones obviously owning the assets get that, and so a

813
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: lot of that has created this not necessarily income inequality,

814
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: a lot of the richest people don't have any income,

815
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: but certainly certainly net worth right value, Yeah, wealth inequality. Sure,

816
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: So what's your take on that?

817
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: I'm curious.

818
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: Here's a fun little example to set the preface for

819
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 3: my take. But one of the things I love to

820
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 3: say to people, because I got blows their mind, is

821
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 3: just to think about where we are today in terms

822
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 3: of wealth inequality, because most of us are focused on

823
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 3: American wealth on equality, but if we really want to

824
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 3: think about we got to think about the whole world.

825
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: You know, there's billions of people outside of the United

826
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 3: States and Europe, so we got to think about them.

827
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 3: And essentially, if you want to map it out as

828
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 3: like a bell curve, you have on the far end

829
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 3: towards poverty. You know, let's say let's pick a number

830
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 3: ten thousand USD you know, of the average person developing

831
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 3: in the developing world, you know, say if they liquidated everything,

832
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 3: you know, ten thousand dollars, and then stay on the

833
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 3: other end, we have maybe a couple of trillionaires out

834
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 3: there floating privately. They probably exist, and even if they're not,

835
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 3: they're probably pretty close. And the funny thing about that,

836
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 3: and the point I want to make there, is that

837
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 3: we have difficulty understanding exponentials. So if we have that spectrum,

838
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 3: someone with one hundred million dollars is actually in the middle.

839
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: So the wealth and equality between someone with ten grand

840
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 3: or of total assets, total assets liquefied and someone with

841
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 3: the hundred million bucks is the same as that person

842
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,439
Speaker 3: to the richest person in the world, more or less

843
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 3: given up order of magnitude or so. Now we're talking

844
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 3: and like you know, basically the ten couple of ten

845
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 3: thousand people, you know, fifty seventy eight thousand people, there's

846
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 3: more wealth than just as much wealth and equality within

847
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 3: that small group as the lowest person that group to

848
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 3: everyone else. And the point being there that no matter

849
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 3: what wealth is going to concentrate in different people's hands,

850
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 3: depending on how much value the providing in the world,

851
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: some people inevitably will produce more goods, services, and economic

852
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 3: value to society than other people. And so to me,

853
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 3: I care much less about who has more money than who,

854
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 3: and I care much more about how is that money out, like,

855
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: how did it get there? So I think wealth and

856
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 3: equality is inevitable. I think obviously under bitcoin it's inevitable. However,

857
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 3: the problem now, and the reason why wealth inequality becomes

858
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 3: so much more drastically worse under a fiat standard and

859
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 3: under a coupling of money from reality, is because the

860
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 3: people that have access to that funnel of new money

861
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 3: can just carve energy towards them. If you have a

862
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 3: riv of money, if you just dig a little bit more,

863
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 3: if you have a bigger shovel than the other guy,

864
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 3: you can dig a bigger channel to yourself and funnel

865
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 3: more of that energy towards you. And so wealth and

866
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 3: equality is a really big problem. And this is a

867
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 3: huge part of the political debate because on one side

868
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 3: of the conservatives that say wealth and equality is inevitable

869
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 3: and some people are more productive than others and etcetera, etcetera,

870
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 3: et cetera, and they're right, But at the same time

871
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 3: you have the people that are more liberal or more

872
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 3: on the left side of the political spectrum that say,

873
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 3: but it's wrong and it's corruption and this and that

874
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 3: and the other. And they're right too. And the reason

875
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 3: why they're both right, but they're also both wrong is

876
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 3: because they're both thinking within a form of account, you know,

877
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 3: the monetary system that's being distorted. So you have actual

878
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 3: productivity being conflated with manipulating the money supply, and you're

879
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 3: mashing them together and it's just this huge, confusing mess. So, yeah,

880
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 3: wealth inequality and morally is a real problem. However, wealth

881
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 3: inequality is always going to be here, and that's not

882
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 3: a bad thing, you know, because as one of my

883
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 3: chart shows, the poorer in the world are actually getting

884
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 3: richer at a faster rate than the wealthy people. And

885
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 3: this has been true for centuries. It's just that it

886
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 3: doesn't feel right because we all feel are being stolen

887
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 3: from which we are.

888
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like to kind of use the framework of

889
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: fairness in regards to the monetary system or in regards

890
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: to sports.

891
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: So you have Lebron James.

892
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not a big basketball fan, but arguably,

893
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: you know, one of the best basketball players alive or

894
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: whatever right right now, and nobody's mad at Lebron James

895
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: because he's so good or he makes so much money,

896
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: nobody's mad at him.

897
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: Nobody's mad at any.

898
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: Sports athlete, right, And I think it's because everybody views

899
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: that the game is the same. The game is fixed,

900
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: the game has a set of rules that applies to

901
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 1: everybody equally. So if you're Steph Curry, I was watching

902
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: sports and Arizona Ones at the gym this morning, so

903
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: like they were talking about Stephen Curry versus Lebron James,

904
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: not that I know, but he's a different player. I

905
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: don't think he's anywhere near as tall, so he has

906
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: to play the game differently. So even though they have

907
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 1: to play with the same regulation, the same set of rules,

908
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: the same ball, the same goal, heights, etc. They can

909
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: play the game differently, and nobody's mad that I can't

910
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 1: play basketball at all. I have no future in basketball,

911
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: and nobody's mad about that because the rules are fixed,

912
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: whereas the monetary system is rigged, and everybody looks at that.

913
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: And so to your the point that you made, it's

914
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: this mismatch of people who really did provide value and

915
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: then people who didn't and just manipulated. And so because

916
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: of that, I think it changes the way people look

917
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: at that.

918
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think that's a great metaphor. Chess is

919
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: another metaphor that has been used quite frequently with bitcoin.

920
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 3: Think that's true. You know, bitcoin is is a consistent

921
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 3: board for playing chess upon and everything else is just

922
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 3: the pieces on top of it. And so you know,

923
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 3: with your Lebron James example, it's like, you know, he

924
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 3: has inequality and the number of shots he makes he

925
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: is inequality, and all his stats colear to everyone else.

926
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 3: Or it's like this extreme you know power occur or whatever,

927
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 3: this extreme exponential curve. It's just off the charts. And

928
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,479
Speaker 3: it's probably always going to be the same way with wealth.

929
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 3: I mean, if we take bitcoin, you know, Michael Saylor

930
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 3: and Satoshi Nakamoto and you know a few dozen or

931
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 3: few hundred other individuals will just have so much more

932
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: than everyone else. And you know, people can debate whether

933
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 3: that's good or bad or whatever, but ultimately, I think

934
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 3: the much more important question is how is that acquired?

935
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 3: And I think right now, under a fiat system where

936
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 3: the rules of the court are changed, and oh well,

937
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 3: you know, you can make a basketball hoop from this

938
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 3: distance said this difference distance because you're different or you're special,

939
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 3: or you know, you have more money or whatever. You know,

940
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 3: I think that's the problem with wealth and equality, and

941
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 3: that's yeah.

942
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would agree. I mean, yeah, if it

943
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: was like, well, Lebron has to play on one leg

944
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: and with one arm because he's so much bigger and

945
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: taller better than I, and like, we don't we don't

946
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: want we don't want to see that game, and so

947
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 1: we don't really want to see that in the financial

948
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: space either. And at the end of the day, I

949
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: might even go as far as to argue that income

950
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: and equality is a good thing. And the reason why

951
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: is because you know, you might be mad that Jeff

952
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 1: Bezos is so rich, but do you want you want

953
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: his income, But do you want to work eighty hours

954
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: a week for twenty years like he did? I don't

955
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 1: want to, right, Like I don't want to do the

956
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: amount of work that he had to, And I'm okay

957
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: with not having the amount of money that he has.

958
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: But I would also argue that the income inequality is

959
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: even the wrong metric, and really we could look at

960
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: like a consumption metric, and so you mentioned like the

961
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: poor people are getting richer at a faster pace in history.

962
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,479
Speaker 1: So if you think about it, Jeff Bezos or Elon

963
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: Musk or whoever you want to put as the richest

964
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: person at this point in time, they have a flat

965
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 1: screen on their wall. The poorest person in the United States,

966
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: and we can look at other countries, but the poorest

967
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: person the United States has a flat screen TV on

968
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: their wall. Jeff Bezos has an iPhone. The poorest person

969
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: US probably has an iPhone. Jeff Bezos has a car.

970
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: The poorest person in the US probably has a car. Right,

971
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos gets to eat food every day. Porest person

972
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: has a I guess the food every day. Jeff Bezos

973
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: has a refrigerator and sanitation the porest like. So on

974
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: a consumption basis, he gets to fly around.

975
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 2: I get a fly around.

976
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: Like on a consumptions basis, we were all pretty equal,

977
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: right now. He he flies private, I fly coach. Right,

978
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: he has one hundred cars. I have, you know, two cars. Whatever,

979
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: But like on a consumption basis, we basically kind of

980
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: had the same thing. And the other thing is that

981
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: in the early days in the eighties, before everyone had

982
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: an iPhone. In the eighties, you had a big brick telephone,

983
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: and it was only used by the really rich and

984
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: powerful people on Wall Street. And if it wasn't for

985
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: those few people that had that money and were able

986
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: to afford those phones, there would have never been those

987
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: phones built, and then it would have never scaled down

988
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: to the point where every single person in the world

989
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,479
Speaker 1: can afford a phone. And then it even probably makes sense.

990
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: So if it wasn't for the rich being able to

991
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: afford those extravagances in the beginning and eventually they were

992
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: produced enough to now they're mass produced for cheap, the

993
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: poorest person US wouldn't have that. And then you could

994
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,439
Speaker 1: also say other countries as well. If the US wasn't

995
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: able to be in a.

996
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 2: Pioneer that, then other countries wouldn't as well.

997
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: So it's an interesting way to look at it. But

998
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: I think ultimately, I think we kind of agree. It

999
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,439
Speaker 1: really comes down to the fairness in the game, you know.

1000
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the fairness in the game and the method

1001
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 3: was achieved. So the two examples you gave with the

1002
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 3: United States and Jeff Bezos, I think those are excellent examples.

1003
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos has provided so much value to the world.

1004
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 3: Everyone that's ever used Amazon. You know has to think

1005
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos to a large extent. Obviously he's not the

1006
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 3: only person, obviously, But at the same time, he's also

1007
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 3: manipulated the yeah, both policy in ways that you know,

1008
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 3: we don't have to get into here, but he's done

1009
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 3: both morally and in a form of corruption. He has

1010
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 3: gained wealth from himself, and the same thing with the

1011
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: United States. United States has brought enormous, beautiful, wonderful and

1012
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 3: borderline miraculous innovations to the world and saved millions and

1013
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,919
Speaker 3: millions and millions of lives through the wealth that we've

1014
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 3: had here. But at the same time, we enforced a

1015
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 3: petro dollar standard, we perpetuate wars, we perpetuate poverty in

1016
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 3: these other regions of the world. And so it's this

1017
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 3: complicated mess. And ultimately that's why, as Jeff Boo says,

1018
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 3: bitcoin is signal months and noise, and that it collapses

1019
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 3: all the nonsense atop the stuff that really matters and

1020
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 3: helps us make more sense of the world.

1021
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: So let's transition into where does this go. So you

1022
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 1: kind of talked about how there's this kind of cycle, right,

1023
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: So history shows money corruption, money, corruption leads to poverty, poverty,

1024
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: has a need for scapegoats. Scapegoats lead to chaos. Chaos

1025
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: leads to power and influence, you know, dictators, etc. And

1026
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: then I added in and then that eventually leads to

1027
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: a revolution. But talk us through that kind of sequence

1028
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: and where you think we're at.

1029
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a very good question. I was in Boston

1030
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 3: recently giving a talk about bitcoin technology similar to this,

1031
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 3: and I went to the Boston Tea Party Museum, which

1032
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 3: was quite fun, and I made a I don't know,

1033
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 3: twenty thirty minute video on my YouTube channel about it

1034
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,959
Speaker 3: because it was just so impactful to me that what

1035
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 3: was the Boston tea part It's what you just said revolution.

1036
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,959
Speaker 3: The British were in a massive.

1037
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 2: Amount of debt.

1038
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 3: They had all these colonies, it was expanding sofa. They

1039
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 3: couldn't keep up the delusion of their currency anymore to

1040
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 3: the degree that they had in the past. And the

1041
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 3: columnists said, enough of this, We're done with this, and

1042
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,760
Speaker 3: we want to opt out of your currency, and therefore

1043
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 3: the political regime attached with that, and we want our

1044
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:37,240
Speaker 3: own system. And so then the examples on my slides

1045
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 3: and the other ones that you've mentioned before in your talks.

1046
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 3: You know, I mean, you could take Nazis in Germany,

1047
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 3: you could take you could even arguably take the Civil War,

1048
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 3: you could take the French Revolution, you could take dozens

1049
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 3: and dozens of examples throughout history, no matter through ethnicity,

1050
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 3: no matter where they are in time, and it's the

1051
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 3: same cycle, just as you're saying. And so you know,

1052
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 3: if I had to take a shot in the dark

1053
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 3: and to guess, I think that probably the nineteen sixties

1054
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 3: was more or less quote unquote the best guess of

1055
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 3: the peak of the least amount of corruption in the

1056
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 3: monitary layer of the United States. We had a massive

1057
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 3: amount of global influence economically, and pretty much since then

1058
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 3: the mid to late twentieth century, our global share of

1059
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 3: the economy has declined. Our global monetary standard is continuing

1060
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 3: to decline. That's one of the reasons why it's so

1061
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 3: important to emphasize that this is nothing new. This didn't

1062
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 3: just inflation didn't just inflation is not a problem that

1063
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 3: just started three years ago in twenty twenty. This is

1064
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 3: this is something that's been a long time coming. And

1065
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 3: so I think more or less, as far as the

1066
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 3: current global reserve currency being the US dollar, I think

1067
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 3: it's probably closer to the end than the beginning. But

1068
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 3: I think ultimately trying to predict how it ends is

1069
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 3: more or less irrelevant whether it's revolution and violence or

1070
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 3: if it's just a push of a button and then

1071
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 3: everyone moves over to a bitcoin standard or some other

1072
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 3: standard or whatever, because I think ultimately, either way it's

1073
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 3: essentially the same result, because the best case for the

1074
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 3: dollar over the next one hundred years is that it

1075
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 3: loses ninety eight ninety nine percent of its purchasing power,

1076
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 3: you know, I mean the Louisiana purchase was for what

1077
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 3: thirteen million dollars. I mean, in the Civil War in

1078
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 3: eighteen sixty one, our national debt was you know what,

1079
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 3: tens of millions of dollars, and now it's tens of

1080
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 3: trillion two dollars. I mean, you extrapolate that outmark and

1081
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 3: it's like you get to quadrillions within a decade or two,

1082
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 3: and our unfunded liabilities and then you get to quintillions

1083
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 3: by at the end of the century, you know, within

1084
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 3: one hundred years or so. And so my point being

1085
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 3: that you know, people are like, oh, Luke, you're so

1086
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 3: you know, certain about hyperinflation of the US dollars blah

1087
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 3: blah blah, and it's like, frankly, it doesn't really matter

1088
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 3: because the best case scenario, you're going to lose ninety

1089
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 3: nine percent of purchasing power. Worst case scenario, lose ninety

1090
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 3: nine point nine nine nine nin nine percent of personal power.

1091
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 3: Now we're just debating about the last one percent, so

1092
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 3: it's more or less irrelevant. So anyway, my best guess

1093
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 3: is that the dollars is just going to continue to decline.

1094
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 3: It'll probably continue to decline an exponential rate, and all

1095
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 3: the other fiat currencies the line relative to the US

1096
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 3: dollar even faster rates. We're seeing that in Lebanon, We're

1097
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 3: seeing that in where else in Argentina, and Turkeys in

1098
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 3: Nigeria and Syria, which everywhere, yeah, yeah, pretty much everywhere

1099
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,720
Speaker 3: everywhere in the United States is having their monetary energy

1100
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 3: bleed faster than the US dollars. So, I mean, it's

1101
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 3: anyone's guess. And honestly, if any of us could guess,

1102
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 3: like we you know, we we're ridiculously smart, and ultimately

1103
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 3: the end of a day, why because we're predicting human emotion, well.

1104
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: We are guessing.

1105
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 1: We're all guessing, we're all placing our bets accordingly. Yeah, yeah,

1106
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 1: not on the exact timing, but on the directionality of things, right, correct.

1107
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 3: The directionality is much more important than the timing, I believe.

1108
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, the directionality is what's important. And to your point,

1109
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: you can lose ninety percent and then lose ninety percent

1110
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: and then lose you can keep losing ninety percent.

1111
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 2: Again and again and again.

1112
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: And I think while we do live in this uncertain world,

1113
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: the certainty is that they're going to continue to need

1114
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 1: more money, print more money, and that's going to continue

1115
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 1: to lead to more erosion of you know, debasement, to

1116
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: your point, and so we have the directionality right Excuse me.

1117
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: Nothing goes up and down in a straight line, so

1118
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: it's not smooth and it's not easy.

1119
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 2: But if you zoom out, I think I think that's

1120
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 2: that's certain.

1121
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: Cool. I think that's a pretty good stopping point right there.

1122
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: You mentioned that you have a YouTube channel. Where should

1123
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: people go to follow you for more stuff?

1124
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, they could. They can find me on YouTube, ib

1125
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 3: YouTube channel just Luke Broils b R y l E s.

1126
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 3: You can find me there or Twitter. Those are my

1127
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 3: most too popular places right now. I'm also working on

1128
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 3: a production, but basically a feature film trying to condense

1129
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 3: these ideas, mostly focusing on energy history and technology, which

1130
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 3: I know a lot of that's right up your allity

1131
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 3: of interests. But so I'm working on that too, so

1132
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 3: I'll be putting more updates out about that and anyways,

1133
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 3: it's just been a blast to meet people and talk

1134
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 3: to people like you, and anyway, thanks for having me on.

1135
00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 3: I really appreciate it.

1136
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we'll make sure we link that stuff in

1137
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 1: the show notes down below, so go make sure you

1138
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: follow follow Luke click on those links. We'll both be

1139
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 1: at the Bitcoin conference here in a couple of weeks.

1140
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: If you want to be at the Bitcoin conference, come

1141
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 1: say hi. I'm putting a little get together there, so

1142
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: just send me a DM if you're going to be there.

1143
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,439
Speaker 1: We'll organize that and with that we'll got and sign

1144
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: it off.

1145
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, thank you,