1 00:00:16,897 --> 00:00:26,937 Speaker 1: Pushkin Before we get started, let's talk about Pushkin Plus. 2 00:00:27,457 --> 00:00:32,057 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a subscription podcast program available on Apple Podcasts. 3 00:00:32,617 --> 00:00:36,057 Speaker 1: Members will get access to exclusive bonus content like my 4 00:00:36,097 --> 00:00:38,777 Speaker 1: weekly bookmarks, where I talk about how I got a 5 00:00:38,817 --> 00:00:41,217 Speaker 1: book agent and what I'm watching on TV that week. 6 00:00:41,817 --> 00:00:45,857 Speaker 1: You'll get uninterrupted listening to many of your favorite podcasts 7 00:00:45,857 --> 00:00:50,777 Speaker 1: like REVISIONUS History, Cautionary Tales, and The Happiness Lab. Sign 8 00:00:50,857 --> 00:01:02,217 Speaker 1: up for Pushkin Plus and Apple podcast subscriptions. If growing 9 00:01:02,297 --> 00:01:06,737 Speaker 1: up is painful for the southern black girl, being aware 10 00:01:06,817 --> 00:01:10,857 Speaker 1: of her displacement is the rust on the razor that 11 00:01:10,977 --> 00:01:18,737 Speaker 1: threatens the throat. It is an unnecessary insult. Everybody has 12 00:01:18,737 --> 00:01:22,297 Speaker 1: a story, Like so many young people, I found mine 13 00:01:22,337 --> 00:01:26,657 Speaker 1: in the words of Maya Angelo. Reading her autobiography made 14 00:01:26,657 --> 00:01:30,577 Speaker 1: me care less about being likable. I felt more deserving. 15 00:01:31,777 --> 00:01:35,537 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what exactly because I was twelve, but 16 00:01:35,657 --> 00:01:39,337 Speaker 1: I recognized the feelings of worthiness in her work. I 17 00:01:39,497 --> 00:01:42,937 Speaker 1: know why The Cage Bird Sings wasn't just an autobiography, 18 00:01:43,297 --> 00:01:46,937 Speaker 1: it was a testimony. I wanted to control my narrative 19 00:01:47,337 --> 00:01:51,657 Speaker 1: the way she controlled hers. I devoured her books to 20 00:01:51,857 --> 00:01:56,137 Speaker 1: understand her audacity. Maya Angelo taught me how to be fearless, 21 00:01:56,657 --> 00:02:00,417 Speaker 1: how to live with compassion, and most importantly, how to 22 00:02:00,577 --> 00:02:21,297 Speaker 1: tell my story. Welcome to Well Read Black Girl, the 23 00:02:21,417 --> 00:02:25,777 Speaker 1: literary kickback you didn't even know you needed. I'm your host, 24 00:02:25,937 --> 00:02:30,657 Speaker 1: Gloria Adam. For years, the Well Read Black Girl community 25 00:02:30,697 --> 00:02:34,217 Speaker 1: has come together to honor the work of female, fem 26 00:02:34,337 --> 00:02:38,217 Speaker 1: and non binary writers of color, and now we're inviting 27 00:02:38,297 --> 00:02:42,777 Speaker 1: you to join the party. Each week, I'll be talking 28 00:02:42,817 --> 00:02:46,017 Speaker 1: to writers, thinkers, and makers about how they found their 29 00:02:46,137 --> 00:02:50,697 Speaker 1: voice home their craft, navigated the wild world of publishing, 30 00:02:51,097 --> 00:02:55,377 Speaker 1: and showed up in the world. We moved through the 31 00:02:55,457 --> 00:03:01,137 Speaker 1: current cultural moment where art, justice and literature collide, and 32 00:03:01,897 --> 00:03:05,177 Speaker 1: pay homage to the literary legacies of the women who 33 00:03:05,297 --> 00:03:11,017 Speaker 1: paved the way. You'll hear from bookstore owners, literary a gets, 34 00:03:11,257 --> 00:03:14,977 Speaker 1: and Well Read Black Girl book Club members themselves on 35 00:03:15,137 --> 00:03:18,817 Speaker 1: what they're reading and what it means to be well read. 36 00:03:23,257 --> 00:03:26,337 Speaker 1: After the Break, author and activist Toronto Burke and I 37 00:03:26,417 --> 00:03:29,617 Speaker 1: discuss her childhood love for reading, how the Me Too 38 00:03:29,737 --> 00:03:33,097 Speaker 1: movement led to her lifelong dream of writing, and how 39 00:03:33,137 --> 00:03:37,977 Speaker 1: protecting your story can lead to freedom. But before she 40 00:03:38,057 --> 00:03:41,057 Speaker 1: shares her story, please be aware that parts of this 41 00:03:41,097 --> 00:04:02,697 Speaker 1: conversation allude to sexual abuse and trauma. Hi, I'm Torona 42 00:04:02,737 --> 00:04:08,537 Speaker 1: Burke and you're listening to well read black girl. Maya 43 00:04:08,617 --> 00:04:12,377 Speaker 1: Angelo will always embody what it means to be a free, 44 00:04:12,697 --> 00:04:17,657 Speaker 1: beautiful black person, and Toronto Burke holds that same sense 45 00:04:17,657 --> 00:04:23,857 Speaker 1: of freedom. Her work is compelling, unapologetic, but also super compassionate. 46 00:04:24,937 --> 00:04:27,857 Speaker 1: As the founder of the Me Too movement, she aims 47 00:04:27,977 --> 00:04:32,977 Speaker 1: to protect and liberate black womanhood. Toronto Burke has become 48 00:04:33,017 --> 00:04:37,257 Speaker 1: one of my heroes, sitting alongside Maya Angelo in my 49 00:04:37,377 --> 00:04:41,377 Speaker 1: mind and of course, on my bookshelf. She is part 50 00:04:41,417 --> 00:04:44,417 Speaker 1: of a lineage of black women who organize and take 51 00:04:44,497 --> 00:04:47,937 Speaker 1: up issues that are impacting people who live on the margins. 52 00:04:48,777 --> 00:04:53,777 Speaker 1: Her first book, Unbound, was released in September twenty twenty one, 53 00:04:53,977 --> 00:04:58,057 Speaker 1: and tells her story from the very very beginning. She's 54 00:04:58,137 --> 00:05:09,137 Speaker 1: here today to share that beautiful story with us. Hi, 55 00:05:09,457 --> 00:05:13,177 Speaker 1: how are you? How are you? I am like all 56 00:05:13,257 --> 00:05:15,377 Speaker 1: up in your background. I see the flowers. She looks 57 00:05:15,377 --> 00:05:19,657 Speaker 1: so beautiful. It look like something. I'm so excited. Okay, 58 00:05:19,737 --> 00:05:22,897 Speaker 1: before we fully fully start full disclosure, you are my 59 00:05:23,057 --> 00:05:29,657 Speaker 1: first interview really, yes, yes, okay, So do you want 60 00:05:29,657 --> 00:05:33,657 Speaker 1: to introduce yourself. Hi, I'm Toronto Burke, author of Unbound, 61 00:05:33,937 --> 00:05:36,937 Speaker 1: my memoir and you are your best thing and founder 62 00:05:37,017 --> 00:05:40,497 Speaker 1: to Me Too movement. That was my first time introducing 63 00:05:40,497 --> 00:05:42,057 Speaker 1: myself as an author. So I just want to say 64 00:05:42,137 --> 00:05:44,937 Speaker 1: thank you for that. I've never done that before. Oh 65 00:05:45,097 --> 00:05:49,097 Speaker 1: look at you. Congratulations to Ronna or should I say 66 00:05:49,177 --> 00:05:53,657 Speaker 1: author Toronto Burke? Okay, okay, so let's get started. Was 67 00:05:53,737 --> 00:05:57,337 Speaker 1: reading a big part of your childhood? Yeah, it's a 68 00:05:57,537 --> 00:06:00,257 Speaker 1: big part of my childhood. I grew up in a 69 00:06:00,337 --> 00:06:02,817 Speaker 1: house full of books, and I talk about this in 70 00:06:02,817 --> 00:06:07,457 Speaker 1: my book a lot. But my mother was is an 71 00:06:07,497 --> 00:06:12,577 Speaker 1: avid reader, voracious reader, and he read mostly literature by 72 00:06:12,657 --> 00:06:16,617 Speaker 1: black women, and so I read mostly black women, right. 73 00:06:16,697 --> 00:06:19,777 Speaker 1: That was? That was I was like raised by black 74 00:06:19,817 --> 00:06:22,777 Speaker 1: feminist literature. I always say it was the kind of 75 00:06:22,817 --> 00:06:25,257 Speaker 1: thing where I had to do book reports even when 76 00:06:25,257 --> 00:06:27,177 Speaker 1: school was out right, my mother would give me book 77 00:06:27,177 --> 00:06:29,977 Speaker 1: reports to do in the summertime. I also went to 78 00:06:30,017 --> 00:06:34,257 Speaker 1: the library after school, and my mother would actually take 79 00:06:34,297 --> 00:06:37,217 Speaker 1: books from me as punishment, like other kids would be like, 80 00:06:37,257 --> 00:06:39,577 Speaker 1: you can't watch TV. She's like put those books down, 81 00:06:39,977 --> 00:06:43,217 Speaker 1: you know. Like, so yeah, I definitely I loved, loved, 82 00:06:43,257 --> 00:06:46,097 Speaker 1: loved reading. It was just my escape, you know, like 83 00:06:46,137 --> 00:06:48,937 Speaker 1: most people, it was a it was an escape. My 84 00:06:49,057 --> 00:06:53,657 Speaker 1: grandfather introduced political literature to me. He literally saw me 85 00:06:53,697 --> 00:06:56,737 Speaker 1: reading Roots one day and he was like, oh, oh 86 00:06:56,777 --> 00:06:59,297 Speaker 1: you're ready. Oh you're reading Roots, so you're ready, And 87 00:06:59,337 --> 00:07:03,657 Speaker 1: he just like opened up a floodgate of political literature. 88 00:07:03,737 --> 00:07:06,777 Speaker 1: So between the two of those things, it was that's 89 00:07:06,777 --> 00:07:09,977 Speaker 1: how I grew up. I can see Little Toronto reading Roots. 90 00:07:10,097 --> 00:07:13,417 Speaker 1: It's so easy to see how your journey has taken 91 00:07:13,497 --> 00:07:16,977 Speaker 1: you to now publishing your own memoirs. Like you are 92 00:07:17,057 --> 00:07:19,417 Speaker 1: on tour and your book is out in the world. 93 00:07:19,497 --> 00:07:22,457 Speaker 1: How does it feel. It depends on the day, but 94 00:07:22,737 --> 00:07:26,097 Speaker 1: it's it's a little bit generally of a surreal feeling. 95 00:07:26,537 --> 00:07:29,897 Speaker 1: You know. A lot of amazing things have happened to 96 00:07:29,937 --> 00:07:32,897 Speaker 1: me since me Too a viral, Right, I've been all 97 00:07:32,937 --> 00:07:35,937 Speaker 1: around the world and gotten all kind of you know, accolades, 98 00:07:35,977 --> 00:07:38,737 Speaker 1: and met all kind of people. But the only thing 99 00:07:40,457 --> 00:07:42,777 Speaker 1: that has happened to me that was actually something that 100 00:07:42,897 --> 00:07:45,857 Speaker 1: was a goal in my life was to write. So 101 00:07:45,937 --> 00:07:50,297 Speaker 1: the ability to you know, get a book deal, have 102 00:07:50,457 --> 00:07:53,257 Speaker 1: somebody say we are interested in your life, we want 103 00:07:53,297 --> 00:07:56,577 Speaker 1: to know your story, especially since young Toronto, was like, 104 00:07:56,617 --> 00:07:58,697 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like Maya Angelo, I'm gonna write a 105 00:07:58,737 --> 00:08:02,137 Speaker 1: whole bunch of books about my life. And yeah, I'm like, 106 00:08:02,217 --> 00:08:04,857 Speaker 1: am I an author? That's hard to even call myself that, 107 00:08:05,257 --> 00:08:06,977 Speaker 1: as though that's the thing I've always wanted to be. 108 00:08:07,017 --> 00:08:11,497 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I'm an author. You are and author? 109 00:08:11,577 --> 00:08:15,657 Speaker 1: Embrace it. Embrace it. I mean, I love to hear 110 00:08:15,697 --> 00:08:19,457 Speaker 1: that connection with my Angelo because that connection is so 111 00:08:19,457 --> 00:08:21,657 Speaker 1: so deep for me as well. I think she, for 112 00:08:21,737 --> 00:08:25,097 Speaker 1: so many young black girls and women, is just like 113 00:08:25,217 --> 00:08:27,297 Speaker 1: the icon. You know, she's the first one to do 114 00:08:27,337 --> 00:08:30,857 Speaker 1: it with such transparency and vulnerability. And you addressed that 115 00:08:30,977 --> 00:08:33,937 Speaker 1: in your book How she inspired you in so many ways. 116 00:08:34,097 --> 00:08:36,217 Speaker 1: Can you talk about the first time you encountered her 117 00:08:36,257 --> 00:08:39,417 Speaker 1: work and what that felt like. Well, the first time 118 00:08:39,497 --> 00:08:41,697 Speaker 1: was in my mother's house, right. My mother had her 119 00:08:41,697 --> 00:08:43,897 Speaker 1: first editions just by virtue of buying them when they 120 00:08:43,937 --> 00:08:47,457 Speaker 1: came out, those first few books that had like the Rainbow, 121 00:08:47,857 --> 00:08:51,217 Speaker 1: and you remember that. That's why I was drawn to 122 00:08:51,297 --> 00:08:54,857 Speaker 1: her initially because her books were pretty and I was twelve, 123 00:08:55,057 --> 00:08:56,937 Speaker 1: you know, I was like eleven, twelve years old. I 124 00:08:56,977 --> 00:08:58,777 Speaker 1: was just like, oh, I want to read these pretty books. 125 00:08:59,097 --> 00:09:01,777 Speaker 1: And then when I read her work, I read I 126 00:09:01,857 --> 00:09:05,097 Speaker 1: Know Why the Cagebird Sings when I was about twelve, 127 00:09:05,817 --> 00:09:09,377 Speaker 1: and I encountered her story and it was so similar 128 00:09:09,417 --> 00:09:11,817 Speaker 1: to mine in some ways. When her being you know, 129 00:09:11,857 --> 00:09:15,097 Speaker 1: sexually assaulted at such a young age, I was like, Oh, 130 00:09:15,217 --> 00:09:18,057 Speaker 1: this is my best friend, you know. And you know, 131 00:09:18,097 --> 00:09:20,017 Speaker 1: when I think about it now, I don't know that 132 00:09:20,097 --> 00:09:22,857 Speaker 1: I knew that she was a real person, right. I 133 00:09:22,857 --> 00:09:26,057 Speaker 1: don't think until I got to maybe high school or 134 00:09:26,177 --> 00:09:28,737 Speaker 1: right before high school, like I realized she's a living 135 00:09:29,217 --> 00:09:30,537 Speaker 1: this is her life, you know what I mean, Like 136 00:09:30,617 --> 00:09:33,897 Speaker 1: I connected it, yeah, as her she was just a 137 00:09:33,977 --> 00:09:36,697 Speaker 1: character to me, you know, like if she was a 138 00:09:36,777 --> 00:09:40,257 Speaker 1: character that I love. And then when I discovered she 139 00:09:40,297 --> 00:09:43,897 Speaker 1: was real, I was like, Oh, this is the most 140 00:09:43,937 --> 00:09:46,297 Speaker 1: magical person in the whole white world, right, you know, 141 00:09:46,537 --> 00:09:49,297 Speaker 1: she's just amazing. That is so amazing me because I 142 00:09:49,337 --> 00:09:51,537 Speaker 1: read the book around that same age too, I was 143 00:09:51,537 --> 00:09:55,377 Speaker 1: like probably twelve for maybe eleven, and I really connected 144 00:09:55,457 --> 00:09:57,977 Speaker 1: to the relationship she had with her brother, you know. 145 00:09:58,137 --> 00:10:01,017 Speaker 1: So there's so many ways that you connect with her story. 146 00:10:01,257 --> 00:10:03,857 Speaker 1: But this was her real life, her real life, right. 147 00:10:03,977 --> 00:10:06,937 Speaker 1: It's crazy and so wild, but also like the Bluest 148 00:10:07,017 --> 00:10:10,817 Speaker 1: Eye in Seely, Like those are fictional characters, but they 149 00:10:10,857 --> 00:10:14,457 Speaker 1: also felt very reminiscent. It's like they're a trio, a sisterhood, 150 00:10:14,497 --> 00:10:16,937 Speaker 1: all three of these young beautiful black girls. Yeah, we 151 00:10:17,057 --> 00:10:20,137 Speaker 1: know what they look like because of the descriptions in 152 00:10:20,177 --> 00:10:22,977 Speaker 1: the book. And so these are black girls that either 153 00:10:23,057 --> 00:10:25,857 Speaker 1: feel like you or you know them. You know somebody 154 00:10:25,897 --> 00:10:29,177 Speaker 1: liked them, right. They just felt very familiar and opposite 155 00:10:29,177 --> 00:10:31,297 Speaker 1: of what we saw on TV. And I love all 156 00:10:31,297 --> 00:10:34,257 Speaker 1: these characters that allow us to see ourselves but also 157 00:10:34,337 --> 00:10:37,537 Speaker 1: see ourselves like in a beautiful, full way, Like we 158 00:10:37,577 --> 00:10:40,177 Speaker 1: can be complicated, we can be messy, we can just 159 00:10:40,297 --> 00:10:43,177 Speaker 1: be vulnerable. And I think that's like the through line 160 00:10:43,177 --> 00:10:46,657 Speaker 1: throughout your entire book, Unbounds that came out in September 161 00:10:46,737 --> 00:10:50,497 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. It's all about vulnerability. And I wanted 162 00:10:50,537 --> 00:10:52,617 Speaker 1: to talk to you about that headspace you were in 163 00:10:52,777 --> 00:10:56,857 Speaker 1: because memoirs are really really difficult tasks. But you did it, 164 00:10:57,297 --> 00:11:01,897 Speaker 1: and you did it so well, so well done. But 165 00:11:02,297 --> 00:11:05,697 Speaker 1: how were you able to not only like relive these 166 00:11:05,697 --> 00:11:08,297 Speaker 1: like dark moments in your past, but do it with 167 00:11:08,337 --> 00:11:14,057 Speaker 1: such authenticity and just courage. You know, some of the 168 00:11:14,857 --> 00:11:18,457 Speaker 1: writing in the book are built on writing that I did, 169 00:11:18,497 --> 00:11:21,697 Speaker 1: like years ago, right, thinking I just need to get 170 00:11:21,737 --> 00:11:23,497 Speaker 1: this out and get it down. I used to have 171 00:11:23,537 --> 00:11:28,417 Speaker 1: a blog, a writing blog. My girlfriend, you know, Emony Perry, 172 00:11:28,937 --> 00:11:32,777 Speaker 1: who is just she's I can't She's a literary angel. 173 00:11:33,097 --> 00:11:36,217 Speaker 1: But the first piece of advice she gave me was 174 00:11:37,137 --> 00:11:42,377 Speaker 1: to write down everything that I remember from childhood to now, 175 00:11:42,457 --> 00:11:46,137 Speaker 1: like every significant memory, not details about it, but just 176 00:11:46,177 --> 00:11:49,937 Speaker 1: like a line, which was such a useful exercise. It 177 00:11:49,977 --> 00:11:54,137 Speaker 1: took me forever, but it was such a useful exercise 178 00:11:54,177 --> 00:11:57,577 Speaker 1: because it started jogging my memories. One memory was spark 179 00:11:57,657 --> 00:12:00,537 Speaker 1: another one. And then I went through and I collected 180 00:12:00,617 --> 00:12:02,617 Speaker 1: every bit of writing that I had ever done that 181 00:12:02,697 --> 00:12:06,497 Speaker 1: was remotely personal, that talked about life, or that maybe 182 00:12:06,497 --> 00:12:11,177 Speaker 1: connected to one of those memories. And I started off 183 00:12:11,177 --> 00:12:14,017 Speaker 1: with all of that. And so Imani helped me initially 184 00:12:14,057 --> 00:12:17,497 Speaker 1: create not a timeline, but something in the vein of 185 00:12:17,497 --> 00:12:21,217 Speaker 1: a timeline, so that I could pull out what felt 186 00:12:21,497 --> 00:12:25,017 Speaker 1: relevant and create the arc of the story. Then the 187 00:12:25,097 --> 00:12:30,177 Speaker 1: pandemic hit, so so my headspace was like shut down. 188 00:12:30,457 --> 00:12:33,097 Speaker 1: So I didn't write a ton in the first part 189 00:12:33,177 --> 00:12:36,217 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty. I just had so much anxiety and 190 00:12:36,257 --> 00:12:39,017 Speaker 1: what have you. The bulk of this book was written 191 00:12:39,057 --> 00:12:42,457 Speaker 1: between September in this past March, which is why this 192 00:12:42,537 --> 00:12:44,737 Speaker 1: is sort of a whirlwin two because I had to 193 00:12:44,777 --> 00:12:49,817 Speaker 1: keep coming in and out of this particular place that 194 00:12:49,857 --> 00:12:51,817 Speaker 1: I needed to go in order to write. But I 195 00:12:51,817 --> 00:12:54,977 Speaker 1: couldn't stay there because it was it was sometimes it 196 00:12:55,017 --> 00:12:58,857 Speaker 1: was painful, sometimes it was just you know, it was 197 00:12:58,897 --> 00:13:00,897 Speaker 1: I had all these ranges of emotions that I didn't 198 00:13:00,937 --> 00:13:03,897 Speaker 1: want to live in and live with every single day. 199 00:13:03,977 --> 00:13:07,257 Speaker 1: So I'd write for like a week straight, just churn 200 00:13:07,297 --> 00:13:08,777 Speaker 1: it out, and then I wouldn't write anything for like 201 00:13:08,817 --> 00:13:11,577 Speaker 1: another week, much to the chagrin of my editors, but 202 00:13:12,017 --> 00:13:14,897 Speaker 1: you know, that's the only way I could get it done. Well. 203 00:13:14,937 --> 00:13:17,017 Speaker 1: You know, it's such an interesting thing because I was 204 00:13:17,057 --> 00:13:20,777 Speaker 1: talking to Ashley s Ford and she recently finished her memoir, 205 00:13:21,257 --> 00:13:23,857 Speaker 1: and she said, if you're writing a memoir, you need 206 00:13:23,897 --> 00:13:27,097 Speaker 1: to have a therapy session twice a week, if not more, 207 00:13:27,417 --> 00:13:30,737 Speaker 1: because you know, you find yourself in these memories and 208 00:13:30,937 --> 00:13:35,297 Speaker 1: putting it down on paper, you are reliving them. Another 209 00:13:35,337 --> 00:13:38,737 Speaker 1: part of that reliving is healing, so you do share 210 00:13:38,897 --> 00:13:41,817 Speaker 1: your healing and how you were able to just kind 211 00:13:41,857 --> 00:13:44,177 Speaker 1: of have more clarity about who you are and what 212 00:13:44,297 --> 00:13:47,337 Speaker 1: your story is. So what do you think you learned 213 00:13:47,377 --> 00:13:49,617 Speaker 1: the most as you were writing the memoir? You know, 214 00:13:49,737 --> 00:13:52,737 Speaker 1: there there was a humbling and that's the best way 215 00:13:52,777 --> 00:13:55,577 Speaker 1: I can think of at the moment that happened in 216 00:13:55,577 --> 00:13:59,657 Speaker 1: this writing process for me. And I came into it thinking, well, 217 00:13:59,697 --> 00:14:01,777 Speaker 1: it's my life, right. I fought to make sure I 218 00:14:01,817 --> 00:14:04,337 Speaker 1: wrote my book. I had. This is my second deal, 219 00:14:04,377 --> 00:14:06,897 Speaker 1: and I actually walked away from the first one because 220 00:14:06,937 --> 00:14:09,217 Speaker 1: they wanted me to have a ghostwriter, and I was like, one, 221 00:14:09,297 --> 00:14:12,857 Speaker 1: I'm a writer, I am not who I'm not having 222 00:14:12,857 --> 00:14:15,897 Speaker 1: my life ghost written, right Like, So I was determined 223 00:14:15,937 --> 00:14:18,697 Speaker 1: to do it myself, even though I didn't know at 224 00:14:18,737 --> 00:14:21,297 Speaker 1: all how to write a book and it's so hard. 225 00:14:23,497 --> 00:14:26,177 Speaker 1: And so I came into it thinking, I know my 226 00:14:26,257 --> 00:14:29,017 Speaker 1: life story. I'm the you know, the only expert on 227 00:14:29,097 --> 00:14:33,777 Speaker 1: my life story. But they are different parts of us. 228 00:14:34,657 --> 00:14:37,897 Speaker 1: And so there was a part of me that held 229 00:14:37,937 --> 00:14:40,057 Speaker 1: onto a story that I thought I needed to tell, 230 00:14:40,857 --> 00:14:42,577 Speaker 1: and then there was another part of me that was like, 231 00:14:42,617 --> 00:14:46,097 Speaker 1: that's not the whole story. Says like if you you know, 232 00:14:46,177 --> 00:14:48,817 Speaker 1: like you that other part of me sits quietly in 233 00:14:48,857 --> 00:14:51,537 Speaker 1: the corner and mine's business. And then they were like, well, 234 00:14:51,577 --> 00:14:53,457 Speaker 1: if you're gonna wake it up, then we're gonna tell 235 00:14:53,497 --> 00:14:56,337 Speaker 1: the story, you know. And it was humbling to have 236 00:14:56,537 --> 00:14:59,697 Speaker 1: to like face some of these things that I thought 237 00:14:59,737 --> 00:15:03,017 Speaker 1: I had worked through or that I had figured out, 238 00:15:03,177 --> 00:15:06,537 Speaker 1: or sometimes I was writing things not how I'd be like, oh, shoot, 239 00:15:06,777 --> 00:15:10,177 Speaker 1: that's not what happened. That's not what happened, like I 240 00:15:10,177 --> 00:15:12,697 Speaker 1: had been telling myself it happened this way for so long, 241 00:15:13,137 --> 00:15:14,977 Speaker 1: or even when I talked to friends to try to 242 00:15:14,977 --> 00:15:17,377 Speaker 1: be like, oh remember that time when such and such 243 00:15:17,417 --> 00:15:19,017 Speaker 1: and such do you remember that? And they tell the 244 00:15:19,017 --> 00:15:22,297 Speaker 1: story and I'm say, oh, wait, that's how you remember it. 245 00:15:22,337 --> 00:15:23,857 Speaker 1: I thought it was, you know it was that was 246 00:15:23,977 --> 00:15:29,417 Speaker 1: really humbling, Like okay, okay, it's like you have to 247 00:15:29,457 --> 00:15:32,617 Speaker 1: reframe in your mind, like like what really, what's my truth? 248 00:15:32,817 --> 00:15:35,057 Speaker 1: You know? What's my truth? Yeah? You know. And I 249 00:15:35,137 --> 00:15:38,577 Speaker 1: was so committed to like I want to tell what happened, 250 00:15:39,137 --> 00:15:42,417 Speaker 1: but like the version of like what happened that we 251 00:15:42,577 --> 00:15:45,937 Speaker 1: keep is for our safety, you know. That's That's one 252 00:15:45,977 --> 00:15:48,417 Speaker 1: of the things I certainly learned. I had a version 253 00:15:48,457 --> 00:15:51,697 Speaker 1: of things that happened to me that it's true, but 254 00:15:51,857 --> 00:15:56,857 Speaker 1: it protects you from the full story, even the story. 255 00:15:56,897 --> 00:15:58,737 Speaker 1: I had written down a story when I was first 256 00:15:58,777 --> 00:16:04,097 Speaker 1: assaulted at seven, a long time ago, and i'd worked 257 00:16:04,097 --> 00:16:07,297 Speaker 1: out some years before that this narrative that I told 258 00:16:07,337 --> 00:16:13,057 Speaker 1: myself that what my abuser said to me probably didn't happen, 259 00:16:13,777 --> 00:16:16,697 Speaker 1: like he probably didn't say those words, and I think 260 00:16:16,697 --> 00:16:18,697 Speaker 1: I had told myself that he said, like this is 261 00:16:18,697 --> 00:16:23,057 Speaker 1: what happens to ugly little girls. I don't really have 262 00:16:23,097 --> 00:16:26,257 Speaker 1: a memory of that. I think I created that memory 263 00:16:26,297 --> 00:16:29,537 Speaker 1: and inserted it in the story at some point to 264 00:16:29,817 --> 00:16:33,777 Speaker 1: justify other beliefs that I had about myself. And I 265 00:16:33,817 --> 00:16:36,137 Speaker 1: had worked out in therapy that that probably didn't happen. 266 00:16:36,417 --> 00:16:38,777 Speaker 1: But when I was writing the story, it kept coming 267 00:16:38,817 --> 00:16:41,897 Speaker 1: to me, like you forgot to add that, and I 268 00:16:41,977 --> 00:16:44,857 Speaker 1: was like, you don't actually I had to like say, like, 269 00:16:44,897 --> 00:16:48,217 Speaker 1: you don't actually remember that, right, Like I don't want 270 00:16:48,217 --> 00:16:51,897 Speaker 1: to add something here that's that's not true. And if 271 00:16:51,897 --> 00:16:54,777 Speaker 1: it is true, and I'm still shaky about it, I 272 00:16:54,857 --> 00:16:56,537 Speaker 1: just let it, you know, And I think I wrote 273 00:16:56,537 --> 00:16:59,137 Speaker 1: in a book I'm not sure what he said, but 274 00:16:59,977 --> 00:17:01,937 Speaker 1: this is what I know. Those are the kind of 275 00:17:01,937 --> 00:17:03,577 Speaker 1: moments where I was like, Okay, when I put this down, 276 00:17:03,577 --> 00:17:07,177 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna write for a week. No. It was hard, Yeah, 277 00:17:07,177 --> 00:17:09,977 Speaker 1: because essentially what you're doing is you're talking to years 278 00:17:10,017 --> 00:17:14,417 Speaker 1: seven year old self, and now that you have the 279 00:17:14,457 --> 00:17:17,937 Speaker 1: space and the reflection, what would you say to her now, 280 00:17:18,257 --> 00:17:20,697 Speaker 1: you know, as an adult and you know all the 281 00:17:20,777 --> 00:17:23,617 Speaker 1: things that you've encountered in your life, what would you 282 00:17:23,617 --> 00:17:26,857 Speaker 1: turn around to say to seven year old Toronto. Well, 283 00:17:26,897 --> 00:17:28,417 Speaker 1: it's what I had to say when I was writing, 284 00:17:28,457 --> 00:17:31,497 Speaker 1: that you're okay, you're safe. What happened to you was 285 00:17:31,577 --> 00:17:34,057 Speaker 1: horrible and but we're going to get through it, right, Like, 286 00:17:34,537 --> 00:17:36,497 Speaker 1: I think what was happening when I was writing is 287 00:17:36,497 --> 00:17:40,737 Speaker 1: that seven year old Toronto was fighting like don't don't 288 00:17:40,777 --> 00:17:42,897 Speaker 1: tell not don't tell the truth, like tell a lie, 289 00:17:43,017 --> 00:17:45,417 Speaker 1: but don't say that, you know what I mean? Like, 290 00:17:46,097 --> 00:17:49,777 Speaker 1: there was a part of me and it's not just 291 00:17:49,817 --> 00:17:52,777 Speaker 1: seven year old Toronto inside Toronto that's been protective of 292 00:17:52,857 --> 00:17:55,777 Speaker 1: outside Toronto for a long time. It's like, don't say that. 293 00:17:55,897 --> 00:17:58,977 Speaker 1: We don't talk about this, you know, even in the 294 00:17:59,017 --> 00:18:00,897 Speaker 1: beginning when I was talking about you know, the way 295 00:18:00,937 --> 00:18:03,297 Speaker 1: people think about me and how they think, you know, 296 00:18:03,617 --> 00:18:06,057 Speaker 1: people who think you're ugly or that story about the 297 00:18:06,057 --> 00:18:09,817 Speaker 1: man calling me ugly. It was the most difficult chapter. 298 00:18:10,737 --> 00:18:12,937 Speaker 1: She've written that as an essay, a really short essay 299 00:18:13,017 --> 00:18:17,817 Speaker 1: some years prior, and never really that many people read it, 300 00:18:19,297 --> 00:18:24,017 Speaker 1: but it felt necessary to include because there was some 301 00:18:24,057 --> 00:18:25,777 Speaker 1: part there's some part of me that I also wanted 302 00:18:25,817 --> 00:18:31,657 Speaker 1: to talk about the compounded reality of being a black 303 00:18:31,697 --> 00:18:35,537 Speaker 1: girl in America. There is the way the world perceives you, 304 00:18:35,937 --> 00:18:38,377 Speaker 1: and make sure that you know that they perceive you 305 00:18:38,457 --> 00:18:42,097 Speaker 1: that way. There is the internalized depression that we deal with, 306 00:18:42,537 --> 00:18:44,657 Speaker 1: and that the repercussions of that that we deal with 307 00:18:44,737 --> 00:18:48,297 Speaker 1: from people in our own community. And then if there's abuse, 308 00:18:48,897 --> 00:18:51,137 Speaker 1: there's the the you know, the trauma from that abuse. 309 00:18:51,177 --> 00:18:54,177 Speaker 1: If there's poverty, there's a trauma from that poverty. Like 310 00:18:54,297 --> 00:18:57,417 Speaker 1: I want to paint a full picture, because we don't 311 00:18:57,497 --> 00:19:01,857 Speaker 1: see black girl's humanity in its fullness often enough. I 312 00:19:01,937 --> 00:19:28,977 Speaker 1: think I'm glory, Adam, this is well read black Girl. Today, 313 00:19:29,017 --> 00:19:37,177 Speaker 1: I'm speaking with Toronto Burke about her recent memoir Unbound. Toronto, 314 00:19:37,297 --> 00:19:40,217 Speaker 1: what made you decide to share at this moment, especially 315 00:19:40,257 --> 00:19:42,697 Speaker 1: when it comes to being so public about your life, 316 00:19:42,777 --> 00:19:45,697 Speaker 1: because you've been writing for a really long time. So 317 00:19:45,737 --> 00:19:48,537 Speaker 1: what is it about this moment in particular that felt 318 00:19:48,577 --> 00:19:52,137 Speaker 1: so necessary to tell your story. I think the timing 319 00:19:52,257 --> 00:19:55,257 Speaker 1: is more or less, you know, related to how long 320 00:19:55,257 --> 00:19:57,617 Speaker 1: it took me to write the book. But it still 321 00:19:57,697 --> 00:20:02,297 Speaker 1: was important now because the movement is only getting bigger, 322 00:20:02,497 --> 00:20:05,857 Speaker 1: and as it gets bigger, people take the liberty to 323 00:20:05,937 --> 00:20:08,777 Speaker 1: try to define it and or use it for their 324 00:20:08,817 --> 00:20:13,057 Speaker 1: own purposes or distorted And I wanted it to be 325 00:20:13,177 --> 00:20:17,377 Speaker 1: on record right that this is the origins, and this 326 00:20:17,457 --> 00:20:20,017 Speaker 1: is where it comes from, and this is the reason why, 327 00:20:20,657 --> 00:20:25,057 Speaker 1: like this is inextricably linked to black girlhood and you 328 00:20:25,097 --> 00:20:28,737 Speaker 1: can't remove that no matter what you do. So at 329 00:20:28,777 --> 00:20:31,217 Speaker 1: some point I just knew I needed to have that down. 330 00:20:32,137 --> 00:20:34,777 Speaker 1: I thought it was important that it was recorded for 331 00:20:34,857 --> 00:20:38,257 Speaker 1: future generations, for whoever is looking at you know the 332 00:20:38,337 --> 00:20:41,617 Speaker 1: history of this movement, that this existed for these reasons, 333 00:20:41,937 --> 00:20:47,977 Speaker 1: no matter what anybody else tells you. I'm I'm so 334 00:20:48,057 --> 00:20:50,297 Speaker 1: happy to hear you say that, because I think that 335 00:20:50,577 --> 00:20:53,457 Speaker 1: it's so essential to correct the historical record and to 336 00:20:53,577 --> 00:20:57,057 Speaker 1: have our voices out there in the public sphere, and 337 00:20:57,177 --> 00:21:00,337 Speaker 1: not to do it timidly. I know we're almost at time. 338 00:21:00,457 --> 00:21:02,697 Speaker 1: I absolutely love the title of the book, and I 339 00:21:02,737 --> 00:21:04,897 Speaker 1: wanted to know how you came up with the title 340 00:21:04,897 --> 00:21:08,897 Speaker 1: abound and what it means to you. So I'm one 341 00:21:08,937 --> 00:21:13,097 Speaker 1: of the people who helped me the book was Garret Kennedy. 342 00:21:13,177 --> 00:21:15,537 Speaker 1: He's a writer. Uh, he used to be a writer 343 00:21:15,577 --> 00:21:17,737 Speaker 1: for La Times. He has a he's a oh yeah, 344 00:21:17,777 --> 00:21:20,537 Speaker 1: he wrote the NWA book about the NW A book 345 00:21:20,577 --> 00:21:23,217 Speaker 1: and he has Yes, he has a book coming out 346 00:21:23,217 --> 00:21:27,537 Speaker 1: about Whitney Houston in February. Um. But Garrick was my 347 00:21:28,417 --> 00:21:31,657 Speaker 1: personal editor, so I had my every everybody, every black 348 00:21:31,897 --> 00:21:35,937 Speaker 1: writer I knew, told me, get you another editor, so 349 00:21:36,697 --> 00:21:38,897 Speaker 1: like you have a black editor if you don't have. 350 00:21:39,097 --> 00:21:41,937 Speaker 1: And I love my editor, Brent Flatiron is great. She 351 00:21:42,017 --> 00:21:44,697 Speaker 1: was an amazing to work with. But Garrick was my 352 00:21:44,777 --> 00:21:47,417 Speaker 1: like sort of writing coach and and and I would 353 00:21:47,417 --> 00:21:50,137 Speaker 1: send him my work to edit. Garrick is actually who 354 00:21:50,137 --> 00:21:53,897 Speaker 1: came up with the title. So I had another title 355 00:21:53,897 --> 00:21:56,577 Speaker 1: in mine and I was desperate to find another one. 356 00:21:57,177 --> 00:21:59,457 Speaker 1: And we do this sometimes, we like we're gonna figure 357 00:21:59,457 --> 00:22:02,417 Speaker 1: it out in ten minutes, let's go. And we knew 358 00:22:02,457 --> 00:22:07,097 Speaker 1: we wanted like one word, and so we were going 359 00:22:07,097 --> 00:22:09,377 Speaker 1: back and forth, and I know this is a dramatic story, 360 00:22:09,377 --> 00:22:11,057 Speaker 1: but this is really how it happened. I was sitting 361 00:22:11,057 --> 00:22:14,377 Speaker 1: in his house and he turned to me. He was like, Unbound, 362 00:22:15,857 --> 00:22:20,017 Speaker 1: and I said, oh my god, that's it. That's it. 363 00:22:20,377 --> 00:22:22,737 Speaker 1: I just got chilled. I mean it was literally like that. 364 00:22:22,857 --> 00:22:26,577 Speaker 1: And he said unbound, and I was just like I 365 00:22:26,617 --> 00:22:28,457 Speaker 1: got that same film and I was like, oh my god, 366 00:22:28,537 --> 00:22:31,257 Speaker 1: that's it, that's it. That is the that is the word, 367 00:22:31,297 --> 00:22:34,097 Speaker 1: that is the title. And it just captured all of 368 00:22:34,137 --> 00:22:36,977 Speaker 1: that for me. You know, like, this is about us 369 00:22:37,657 --> 00:22:41,097 Speaker 1: unbinding ourselves from these various things that tie us down, 370 00:22:41,577 --> 00:22:46,137 Speaker 1: that keep us from growing and moving forward and feeling freedom. 371 00:22:45,697 --> 00:22:48,817 Speaker 1: Uh so, yeah, it was. It was. I love him 372 00:22:48,857 --> 00:22:52,337 Speaker 1: so much and I love him for that. He's an 373 00:22:52,417 --> 00:22:56,417 Speaker 1: incredible writer. And that title, it perfectly describes your experience. 374 00:22:56,777 --> 00:22:59,777 Speaker 1: And now I'm thinking about you know, you are author, 375 00:22:59,897 --> 00:23:02,537 Speaker 1: you're a writer, you're all the things. So what does 376 00:23:02,577 --> 00:23:07,177 Speaker 1: the future hold? Will there be more memoirs write about 377 00:23:07,217 --> 00:23:09,977 Speaker 1: like the movement? Like I feel like there's so much, 378 00:23:10,657 --> 00:23:12,577 Speaker 1: so much for you to give. I don't know, it's 379 00:23:12,577 --> 00:23:15,937 Speaker 1: a lot. Let me tell you. So the you know, 380 00:23:15,977 --> 00:23:17,537 Speaker 1: when you you've been through this process, so you have 381 00:23:17,577 --> 00:23:19,897 Speaker 1: two books, you know, when you're in those meetings, the 382 00:23:20,017 --> 00:23:22,817 Speaker 1: marketing meetings, when they're when they're writing before you launch, right, 383 00:23:23,457 --> 00:23:27,577 Speaker 1: and um, they were introducing some new assets that we're 384 00:23:27,577 --> 00:23:30,257 Speaker 1: going to go out into social media, what have you? 385 00:23:30,377 --> 00:23:37,497 Speaker 1: And the assets said unbound the first memoir by Ronald Burke, 386 00:23:38,257 --> 00:23:41,097 Speaker 1: and I was like, so John put that on it. 387 00:23:43,417 --> 00:23:46,377 Speaker 1: They were manifesting for you. They were manifesting. They said, oh, 388 00:23:46,417 --> 00:23:48,577 Speaker 1: this is not gonna be the last. So out of 389 00:23:48,617 --> 00:23:50,737 Speaker 1: my mind. I remember joking with with Garrick and some 390 00:23:50,777 --> 00:23:53,337 Speaker 1: of my friends and saying, like a crazy I'm not 391 00:23:53,377 --> 00:23:56,457 Speaker 1: doing this again. But you know what, I want to 392 00:23:56,457 --> 00:23:59,337 Speaker 1: write a novel at some point in my life. So 393 00:23:59,897 --> 00:24:03,097 Speaker 1: that has just always been a dream. At some point 394 00:24:03,137 --> 00:24:06,697 Speaker 1: I plan on doing that. Um, there is more writing coming. 395 00:24:06,777 --> 00:24:09,257 Speaker 1: That's that's a short answer. I've been in a lot 396 00:24:09,297 --> 00:24:11,977 Speaker 1: of requests to have a version of the book or 397 00:24:12,017 --> 00:24:16,337 Speaker 1: something for young adults, which I really want to do 398 00:24:16,417 --> 00:24:18,897 Speaker 1: because fifty a book is about me as a young adult, 399 00:24:18,977 --> 00:24:23,137 Speaker 1: right and or a young person and um, and I 400 00:24:23,177 --> 00:24:26,537 Speaker 1: just don't think we talk about or talk to young 401 00:24:26,577 --> 00:24:30,017 Speaker 1: people directly enough about this as a phenomenon that happens 402 00:24:30,017 --> 00:24:33,457 Speaker 1: in their lives regularly. So I'm definitely thinking about that, 403 00:24:33,657 --> 00:24:36,377 Speaker 1: and I feel like there's a part two bubbling up 404 00:24:36,377 --> 00:24:40,937 Speaker 1: in my spirit. But we'll see. I see it too, 405 00:24:41,297 --> 00:24:44,337 Speaker 1: And there's so much more life to be lived in 406 00:24:44,457 --> 00:24:47,937 Speaker 1: stories like I want everything that you left on the 407 00:24:47,937 --> 00:24:51,217 Speaker 1: cutting room floor, bring it to us, to us, and 408 00:24:51,257 --> 00:24:53,737 Speaker 1: I cannot wait for a novel. I like, that's that's 409 00:24:53,737 --> 00:24:55,697 Speaker 1: gonna be. We gonna bring you back for another episode 410 00:24:55,737 --> 00:24:58,137 Speaker 1: because I want to hear the fiction. Yeah, it's a 411 00:24:58,217 --> 00:25:00,377 Speaker 1: science fiction and there you know, what do you what 412 00:25:00,497 --> 00:25:02,737 Speaker 1: do you think going to be historical fiction? The book 413 00:25:02,737 --> 00:25:06,177 Speaker 1: that's been brewing in my spirit. During the quarantine part 414 00:25:06,177 --> 00:25:09,217 Speaker 1: of the pandemic, I started doing it. I got really 415 00:25:09,217 --> 00:25:12,777 Speaker 1: heavy into my family research and I have discovered an 416 00:25:12,817 --> 00:25:16,857 Speaker 1: ancestor who I'm madly in love with, and I just 417 00:25:16,977 --> 00:25:19,137 Speaker 1: I'm doing more research on her now. So I feel 418 00:25:19,137 --> 00:25:22,977 Speaker 1: like I want to fictionalize and tell her story, sort 419 00:25:23,017 --> 00:25:26,937 Speaker 1: of filling the blanks in her story. So, girls, that's 420 00:25:26,937 --> 00:25:31,857 Speaker 1: so incredible from you know all the things, that's so 421 00:25:31,977 --> 00:25:35,457 Speaker 1: excited for you. It's all it's all gonna happen. It's 422 00:25:35,497 --> 00:25:37,937 Speaker 1: all gonna be happening. We're gonna be here Supportine. Now. 423 00:25:38,617 --> 00:25:46,417 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Okay to Ronna, I wanted to play 424 00:25:46,417 --> 00:25:52,497 Speaker 1: a game that I like to call rapid Fire Up. Okay. 425 00:25:52,497 --> 00:25:55,777 Speaker 1: I love those where I ask you questions and I 426 00:25:55,817 --> 00:25:58,297 Speaker 1: want to hear the first thing that comes to your mind. 427 00:25:58,297 --> 00:25:59,977 Speaker 1: As long as you don't ask me my favorite book, 428 00:25:59,977 --> 00:26:03,017 Speaker 1: because that'll be terrible. You know what, We're not gonna 429 00:26:03,017 --> 00:26:05,337 Speaker 1: go there. We're gonna start off with some fun ones. 430 00:26:05,657 --> 00:26:08,297 Speaker 1: What's your theme song? Can't Keep a Good Woman Down 431 00:26:08,337 --> 00:26:11,897 Speaker 1: by Mary J. Bline. I like that one. Okay, coffee 432 00:26:11,937 --> 00:26:14,897 Speaker 1: or tea tea? Name three of the favorite things on 433 00:26:14,897 --> 00:26:17,777 Speaker 1: your desk? Oh? I have a sign that says stupid 434 00:26:17,777 --> 00:26:22,177 Speaker 1: people get on my nerves that my daughter bought me, 435 00:26:22,977 --> 00:26:27,977 Speaker 1: my ghost stapler, which I really love, and my moleskin. Okay. 436 00:26:28,137 --> 00:26:32,217 Speaker 1: What's your favorite piece of clothing that makes you feel powerful? Oh? Powerful? 437 00:26:32,497 --> 00:26:36,497 Speaker 1: M I have a blouse that has these really this 438 00:26:36,697 --> 00:26:39,217 Speaker 1: black blouse that has a bow and it has these 439 00:26:39,217 --> 00:26:42,737 Speaker 1: big puffy sleeves. And years ago I took my license pictures, 440 00:26:42,777 --> 00:26:45,377 Speaker 1: the best driver's license picture I ever took. It's like, 441 00:26:45,577 --> 00:26:49,017 Speaker 1: I love this blouse, so I love him. Do you 442 00:26:49,057 --> 00:26:52,377 Speaker 1: have a mantra something you recite before giving a speech? 443 00:26:52,857 --> 00:26:54,857 Speaker 1: I don't know that I have a mantra, but that 444 00:26:54,937 --> 00:26:57,977 Speaker 1: quote by Corner West is one that I refer too often. 445 00:26:58,497 --> 00:27:00,497 Speaker 1: You can't lead to people if you don't love the people, 446 00:27:00,537 --> 00:27:02,297 Speaker 1: and you can't save the people if you don't serve 447 00:27:02,297 --> 00:27:06,217 Speaker 1: the people perfection. Okay, And so last two, what's your sign? 448 00:27:06,377 --> 00:27:09,577 Speaker 1: And do you know your brising, moon and sun? Oh? Absolutely? 449 00:27:10,137 --> 00:27:14,377 Speaker 1: My son sign is Virgo, My rising is also Virgo, 450 00:27:15,297 --> 00:27:18,177 Speaker 1: and my moon is in Pisces. I'm a triple Virgo 451 00:27:18,217 --> 00:27:22,097 Speaker 1: because my mercury is in Virgo. Which rules are That's 452 00:27:22,097 --> 00:27:27,297 Speaker 1: a ruling planet. So I am all Virgo. Everything vigers unite. 453 00:27:27,417 --> 00:27:33,137 Speaker 1: That's right. Oh, I love that. Okay. And the last 454 00:27:33,177 --> 00:27:36,817 Speaker 1: one is a special one for us. What does it 455 00:27:36,897 --> 00:27:41,217 Speaker 1: mean to you to be well read? Oh? Oh, what 456 00:27:41,217 --> 00:27:44,257 Speaker 1: it means everything. I think that I would not be 457 00:27:44,497 --> 00:27:47,417 Speaker 1: able to write well without being well read. I wouldn't 458 00:27:47,417 --> 00:27:50,177 Speaker 1: be able to like show up in the world the 459 00:27:50,217 --> 00:27:52,057 Speaker 1: way that I'm able to show up if I wasn't 460 00:27:52,097 --> 00:27:57,337 Speaker 1: well read. And I think it means having books in 461 00:27:57,337 --> 00:28:01,617 Speaker 1: your life that provide you guidance, that provides you levity, 462 00:28:01,817 --> 00:28:05,697 Speaker 1: that provides you escape, but that that really are sort 463 00:28:05,697 --> 00:28:08,297 Speaker 1: of help you just grow as a person, and those 464 00:28:08,337 --> 00:28:13,017 Speaker 1: books happen to be from me, mostly by black women authors, 465 00:28:13,057 --> 00:28:16,817 Speaker 1: but several others. You know, I love some black men's too, 466 00:28:17,217 --> 00:28:20,097 Speaker 1: So yeah, I take pride in being well read. It 467 00:28:20,217 --> 00:28:22,897 Speaker 1: was you know, I don't think I would have advanced 468 00:28:22,897 --> 00:28:26,017 Speaker 1: in life without having books for sure. You know, I 469 00:28:26,097 --> 00:28:28,817 Speaker 1: love this platform. I love well read black Girl. I 470 00:28:28,857 --> 00:28:31,457 Speaker 1: love everything that you're doing because I remember the first 471 00:28:31,497 --> 00:28:33,257 Speaker 1: time I saw the name, I was like, that's me. 472 00:28:34,937 --> 00:28:38,537 Speaker 1: Oh well read black girl. You know, yeah, it feels 473 00:28:38,537 --> 00:28:42,817 Speaker 1: like a club. It really, it really doesn't. Even with 474 00:28:42,897 --> 00:28:44,737 Speaker 1: everything that's going on with the pandemic, even though we 475 00:28:44,777 --> 00:28:46,897 Speaker 1: can't like meet in person, I'm still like, you know, 476 00:28:46,977 --> 00:28:49,497 Speaker 1: this is our creative church. This is our family reunion. 477 00:28:49,737 --> 00:28:52,697 Speaker 1: Whether we're in person or virtual, the love and energy 478 00:28:52,817 --> 00:28:55,937 Speaker 1: is always there. And I'm so grateful. Like you're like 479 00:28:55,977 --> 00:29:03,617 Speaker 1: my first person. I said, Okay, I said, please, mama, 480 00:29:03,657 --> 00:29:08,097 Speaker 1: oh give us give us the thumbs up. Yes, indeed, 481 00:29:08,657 --> 00:29:15,097 Speaker 1: thank you so much, trying to thank you for everything, hugs, 482 00:29:15,257 --> 00:29:23,777 Speaker 1: doing the Seely clan clap, Yes, congratulations. Toronto Work is 483 00:29:23,857 --> 00:29:26,497 Speaker 1: living proof that there are no defined boundaries to being 484 00:29:26,537 --> 00:29:30,697 Speaker 1: an activist or an author. She shows us how activism 485 00:29:30,737 --> 00:29:33,417 Speaker 1: can come in many forms and how your own story 486 00:29:33,537 --> 00:29:36,777 Speaker 1: can serve as a catalyst. Her courage to open up 487 00:29:36,777 --> 00:29:39,657 Speaker 1: about her past allows us to reckon with our own 488 00:29:40,657 --> 00:29:45,497 Speaker 1: like mine. Angelo's. Toronto's memoir is enduring. It calls out 489 00:29:45,537 --> 00:29:48,777 Speaker 1: to us to be clear about our identities and what 490 00:29:48,817 --> 00:29:52,617 Speaker 1: we care about, what we stand for. I hope their 491 00:29:52,697 --> 00:29:56,377 Speaker 1: stories are more than inspiring to you and move you 492 00:29:56,457 --> 00:30:02,017 Speaker 1: towards action. Toronto's book Unbounds, my story of liberation and 493 00:30:02,097 --> 00:30:06,137 Speaker 1: the birth of the Me Too movement, is out now. 494 00:30:07,817 --> 00:30:09,697 Speaker 1: After the break, we're taking a trip to one of 495 00:30:09,737 --> 00:30:13,497 Speaker 1: my favorite bokstores in Washington, DC to see what they're 496 00:30:13,537 --> 00:30:30,217 Speaker 1: excited to read this year. Here at Well Read black Girl. 497 00:30:30,457 --> 00:30:34,097 Speaker 1: We love a local bookstore, so of course I've got 498 00:30:34,097 --> 00:30:36,857 Speaker 1: to shine a light on some of my faves. From 499 00:30:36,897 --> 00:30:39,697 Speaker 1: time to time, I'll check in with bookstore owners about 500 00:30:39,777 --> 00:30:42,097 Speaker 1: why they open their shops and see if they have 501 00:30:42,177 --> 00:30:46,897 Speaker 1: any staff picks for us. On today's Indie first, we're 502 00:30:46,977 --> 00:30:50,457 Speaker 1: checking in with the owners at sant kofa bookstore in Washington, 503 00:30:50,537 --> 00:30:56,217 Speaker 1: d C. Hey, Shri Kiana, how are you thank you 504 00:30:56,257 --> 00:30:58,697 Speaker 1: for joining us today? Can you tell us a little 505 00:30:58,737 --> 00:31:04,217 Speaker 1: bit about Saint Kofa and your background. Sure, Shirikiana Grima 506 00:31:04,497 --> 00:31:07,977 Speaker 1: is my name. I own with Hiley, my husband, Hannah 507 00:31:07,977 --> 00:31:12,017 Speaker 1: Garrima sank Cofa Video and bookstore located in Washington, DC, 508 00:31:12,617 --> 00:31:16,857 Speaker 1: Chocolate City, and we had intended to use the building 509 00:31:16,937 --> 00:31:20,457 Speaker 1: to produce our films and maybe sell them as well 510 00:31:20,497 --> 00:31:26,577 Speaker 1: as other films by African filmmakers and other filmmakers of color. 511 00:31:26,897 --> 00:31:29,857 Speaker 1: So we saw this space and highly my husband just 512 00:31:29,857 --> 00:31:31,537 Speaker 1: looked at it and said, you know, we should just 513 00:31:31,577 --> 00:31:34,937 Speaker 1: have a bookstore here as well. And it's now twenty 514 00:31:34,977 --> 00:31:38,777 Speaker 1: five years that is so amazing. And as I said before, 515 00:31:38,857 --> 00:31:41,457 Speaker 1: thank Cofa holds a special place in my heart because 516 00:31:41,857 --> 00:31:45,617 Speaker 1: of my experience at Howard and just reading like so 517 00:31:45,697 --> 00:31:49,097 Speaker 1: much in your bookstore and learning so much about myself. 518 00:31:49,177 --> 00:31:51,417 Speaker 1: So thank you. And you're going to share some staff 519 00:31:51,457 --> 00:31:53,977 Speaker 1: picks with us right What are you guys reading at 520 00:31:53,977 --> 00:31:57,137 Speaker 1: thank Cofa right now? I'm excited to share titles that 521 00:31:57,177 --> 00:32:00,377 Speaker 1: are coming down the pike in twenty twenty two based 522 00:32:00,417 --> 00:32:04,017 Speaker 1: on staff recommendations. Hi, my name is Mikayla and the 523 00:32:04,057 --> 00:32:07,217 Speaker 1: book I recommend is called Memphis. It's an upcoming novel 524 00:32:07,257 --> 00:32:10,297 Speaker 1: by Terror and Stringfellow, and I'm really excited about it. 525 00:32:11,057 --> 00:32:13,457 Speaker 1: I'm from Mphis and I love reading about my hometown. 526 00:32:13,897 --> 00:32:16,177 Speaker 1: My name is Jonathan. I'd like to recommend the book 527 00:32:16,217 --> 00:32:18,817 Speaker 1: of Blood and Sweat, Black Lives in the Genesis of 528 00:32:18,897 --> 00:32:21,897 Speaker 1: White Power and Wealth by Clyde w Ford. It takes 529 00:32:21,897 --> 00:32:25,377 Speaker 1: a very interesting approach in telling the story of the 530 00:32:25,417 --> 00:32:30,017 Speaker 1: accumulation of white wealth in America through black labor. Hi. 531 00:32:30,337 --> 00:32:33,177 Speaker 1: I'm Christina and the book I recommend is Black Love 532 00:32:33,257 --> 00:32:37,177 Speaker 1: Matters by Jessica P. Pride. I'm excited about this book 533 00:32:37,257 --> 00:32:41,617 Speaker 1: because black love is grossly underrepresented in the media, and 534 00:32:41,857 --> 00:32:47,177 Speaker 1: this anthology promises new thoughts and ideas on black love 535 00:32:47,377 --> 00:33:02,937 Speaker 1: in media representation. I can't wait to read it. Thank 536 00:33:02,977 --> 00:33:05,897 Speaker 1: you again to Toronto Burke. It's been amazing to witness 537 00:33:05,937 --> 00:33:11,417 Speaker 1: your growth and transformation. Congratulations you are an author and inspiration. 538 00:33:12,577 --> 00:33:15,417 Speaker 1: I also have to give a special ancestral shout out 539 00:33:15,497 --> 00:33:18,537 Speaker 1: to the Light from Above Maya Angelo. Thank you so 540 00:33:18,617 --> 00:33:24,097 Speaker 1: much for your words, your wisdom. We love you. Thank 541 00:33:24,137 --> 00:33:27,057 Speaker 1: you all for joining me. This season. I'll be talking 542 00:33:27,057 --> 00:33:33,097 Speaker 1: with authors like Gabrielle Union, Elizabeth Assovado, Anita Hill. I mean, 543 00:33:33,417 --> 00:33:37,577 Speaker 1: those are just a few names. Next episode, I'll be 544 00:33:37,617 --> 00:33:40,777 Speaker 1: talking to men Gin Lee, the author of Pichinko and 545 00:33:40,937 --> 00:33:44,617 Speaker 1: Free Food for Millionaires, about her upcoming memoir and her 546 00:33:44,697 --> 00:33:47,777 Speaker 1: radical thoughts on why young people should be reading. And 547 00:33:47,857 --> 00:33:51,657 Speaker 1: that episode's actually out now, so let it roll. So 548 00:33:51,857 --> 00:33:55,057 Speaker 1: until next time on Well Read Black Girl, tell your 549 00:33:55,097 --> 00:33:58,537 Speaker 1: friends to tell their friends so we can all be friends. 550 00:34:08,017 --> 00:34:11,537 Speaker 1: Well Read black Girl. It's a production of Pushing Industries. 551 00:34:11,977 --> 00:34:15,417 Speaker 1: It is written and hosted by me Glory Edam and 552 00:34:15,577 --> 00:34:20,777 Speaker 1: produced by Cher Vincent and Brittany Brown. Our associate editor 553 00:34:20,977 --> 00:34:25,057 Speaker 1: is Keishall Williams. Our engineer is Amanda ka Wang, and 554 00:34:25,137 --> 00:34:29,137 Speaker 1: our showrunner is Sasha Matthias. Special thanks this week to 555 00:34:29,337 --> 00:34:35,377 Speaker 1: Vicki Merrick. Our executive producers are Miya Lobell and Leet 556 00:34:35,417 --> 00:34:40,057 Speaker 1: Hall Molad. At Pushkin thanks to Heather Famee, Carly Migliori, 557 00:34:40,577 --> 00:34:46,177 Speaker 1: Julia Barton, John Schnars, and Jacob Wiseberg. You can find 558 00:34:46,177 --> 00:34:48,937 Speaker 1: me on Twitter and Instagram at Well Read black Girl. 559 00:34:49,257 --> 00:34:52,137 Speaker 1: You can find Pushkin and all social media platforms at 560 00:34:52,137 --> 00:34:55,177 Speaker 1: Pushkin Pods, and you can sign up for our newsletter 561 00:34:55,177 --> 00:34:58,817 Speaker 1: at pushkin dot Fm. If you love this show and 562 00:34:58,937 --> 00:35:03,857 Speaker 1: others from Pushkin Industry, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin 563 00:35:03,897 --> 00:35:07,297 Speaker 1: Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and 564 00:35:07,537 --> 00:35:11,417 Speaker 1: uninterrupted listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for 565 00:35:11,617 --> 00:35:15,497 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you're already 566 00:35:15,537 --> 00:35:18,897 Speaker 1: a subscriber, make sure to check out my exclusive Bookmark 567 00:35:18,977 --> 00:35:23,177 Speaker 1: series on pushkin Plus. Starting on February eighteenth. You'll hear 568 00:35:23,217 --> 00:35:27,217 Speaker 1: extended interviews with book club members, bookstore owners, and more. 569 00:35:28,097 --> 00:35:30,017 Speaker 1: And do you get to hear what's on my mind, 570 00:35:30,337 --> 00:35:33,617 Speaker 1: what's on my radar, and of course what's on my 571 00:35:33,737 --> 00:35:38,297 Speaker 1: reading list each week. To find more pushkinn podcasts, listen 572 00:35:38,337 --> 00:35:42,537 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to 573 00:35:42,577 --> 00:35:42,937 Speaker 1: listen