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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Buck Sexton and you're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Tutor Dixon Podcast, part of the Clay Travers and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I'm Tutor Dixon, and

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Speaker 2: I am so glad you're joining me today. Today, I

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Speaker 2: want to continue our deep dive into discussions about the

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Speaker 2: existential threat of China and specifically the Chinese Communist Party,

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Speaker 2: which has so deeply infiltrated our institutions, businesses, and communities

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Speaker 2: you may not even know their influences. It spreads far

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Speaker 2: beyond Washington, d C. We're actually seeing China cut deals

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Speaker 2: left and right with state and local governments and politicians

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Speaker 2: throughout the country California, North Dakota, right here in Michigan.

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Speaker 2: You've heard me all. You've all heard me talking about it.

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Speaker 2: They've all claimed them as targets by China, and they

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Speaker 2: push to buy land near critical resources and military bases.

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Speaker 2: It's naive or maybe even politically desperate elected officials that

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Speaker 2: go as high up as governors who are being wooed

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Speaker 2: by the false promises of more jobs. We even heard

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Speaker 2: Governor Youngkin say he's not going to be wooed by

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Speaker 2: jobs over national security because this is fully compromising our

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Speaker 2: national security. So I'm bringing in an expert today to

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Speaker 2: help us understand what's happening and why. Bill Evanina is

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Speaker 2: a former US counterintelligence chief with decades of experience, serving

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Speaker 2: as the director of the National counter Intelligence and Security

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Speaker 2: Center under both President Obama and Trump. He was the

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Speaker 2: chief of the CIA's counter Espionage Group and served twenty

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Speaker 2: four years in the FBI. He's now taken all of

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Speaker 2: this knowledge and advise the CEOs and boards of directors

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Speaker 2: for some of our largest corporations on the foreign risks

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Speaker 2: they face and how to best prepare and respond to

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Speaker 2: these threats. Before I bring Bill on with me, I

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Speaker 2: want to first remind you guys about consumer Tax Advocate.

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Speaker 2: That's COVID tax Relief dot Org. One more time, COVID

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Speaker 2: tax Relief dot Org. Now let's get back to what

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Speaker 2: we were talking about on China. Let's welcome in Bill

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Speaker 2: Evanina to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me,

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Speaker 2: Bill Tutor.

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Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be here. Look forward to having

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Speaker 1: a great discussion on a very important topic in protecting

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Speaker 1: our country.

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Speaker 2: Well, we were talking about how this has come to Michigan.

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Speaker 2: We see the Ghoshen plant in the state of Michigan.

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Speaker 2: The local community has fought back against it. And I

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Speaker 2: was talking to you before we got on here and saying,

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Speaker 2: you know this is now in Michigan. You said, actually,

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Speaker 2: it's everywhere. And this is something that I think when

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump came out and talked about America first and

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Speaker 2: we're not going to be partners with China, people didn't

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Speaker 2: really understand. But a lot has happened in the past

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Speaker 2: several years that people, especially with COVID, people are saying,

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Speaker 2: do we want to be this embedded with China. What

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Speaker 2: has the behind the scenes looked like for you on

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Speaker 2: educating folks Well.

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Speaker 1: Tudor, First of all, thanks for having this podcast about

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Speaker 1: this topic. It's very important to be out there in

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Speaker 1: order to mitigate any kind of threat like this, and

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Speaker 1: as you said, this is an existential threat a commedies

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Speaker 1: part of China. You have to be aware of what

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Speaker 1: that threat is. But it looks like how it is

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Speaker 1: around you and how it affects you every day. And

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Speaker 1: I think, to use your premise here with the state

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Speaker 1: of Michigan, I look back five, six, seven, eight years ago,

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Speaker 1: maybe a decade ago, we were having a lot of

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Speaker 1: difficulty and gaining traction on this threat, and we saw

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Speaker 1: it from the intelligence community and intelligence with the intentions

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Speaker 1: and capabilities of the Communist Party and your intelligence services,

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Speaker 1: what they were doing to our critical infrastructure, our companies

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Speaker 1: buying venture capital to be able to purchase themselves into

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Speaker 1: the boardrooms. We didn't get a lot of traction. I

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Speaker 1: would say probably twenty seventeen to eighteen we started to

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Speaker 1: see that turn and we started to garner some traction

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Speaker 1: in the mainstream media, be able to get our message

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Speaker 1: out and we had some big stories out there and

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Speaker 1: what it be sixteen minutes where people start to say,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute. And then we had some attraction with

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Speaker 1: the governor's associations, right, and we showed the state and

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Speaker 1: local representatives and how the Commuist Partatrona is having malign

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Speaker 1: influence at the very local level of our governments, and

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Speaker 1: it really woke everybody up. And now we're starting this

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Speaker 1: see how big of a threat this is, and now

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Speaker 1: what do we do about it?

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Speaker 2: How do people get into this situation where they didn't

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Speaker 2: even realize that this was in their boardrooms? Because I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's what you're seeing. You're seeing that they've gone into

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Speaker 2: American companies and the American companies didn't even realize they

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Speaker 2: were there.

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Speaker 1: That's a great question. I think that is actually the

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Speaker 1: crux of the whole scenario we're dealing with here. It's

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Speaker 1: because the Communist Party in China is spectacular at hiding

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Speaker 1: in plain sight with their in affairs activities through legitimate

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Speaker 1: business enterprises. And I'll give you two examples. Obviously Huawei

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Speaker 1: is a big one that we've seen the last five

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Speaker 1: or six years. Yeah, but you just look in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: Just look at the Ford Mortar Company right now. So

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Speaker 1: they had an opportunity to go green renewal energy, build

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Speaker 1: battery factories in the US, and they chose not to.

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Speaker 1: As a board and as a CEO, they chose to

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Speaker 1: partner with a communist Chinese company that's under the direction

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Speaker 1: of the Communist Party to build their batteries for for

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Speaker 1: electric vehicles. Bad decision in my view. Right, if you're

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Speaker 1: going to be part of the solution, that's not part

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Speaker 1: of it. Whereas Governor Youngkin Virginia said, we're not going

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Speaker 1: to do it. It's not worth the twelve hundred jobs

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Speaker 1: to be in partnership and more importantly, be subservient to

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Speaker 1: a Communist party in China's supply chain. Let you vehicle

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Speaker 1: batteries for their near future.

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Speaker 2: How do they get these politicians that are in the

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Speaker 2: bag for them? Though, because Governor Younkin did, he came

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Speaker 2: out this was specifically about this cattle factory coming to Virginia.

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Speaker 2: He said, no way, I'm not putting jobs over national security.

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Speaker 2: It's way too dangerous. Now. Gretchen Whitmer openly said, I

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Speaker 2: welcome them into the state of Michigan. It's important that

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Speaker 2: we partner with Ford. And she was part of the

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Speaker 2: group that was out there saying this is Ford, this

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Speaker 2: is not the CCP. But it's not Ford. It's a

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Speaker 2: partnership Ford has invested in. But the company will be

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Speaker 2: owned by a Chinese corporation, and every Chinese corporation is

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Speaker 2: connected to the CCP. But this is something we also

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Speaker 2: talked about, is that people can instantly say, oh, you

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Speaker 2: can't say that the Chinese people are bad. This is xenophobic.

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Speaker 2: You don't want Chinese people to come in and work

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Speaker 2: in Michigan. That is not the case. We're talking about

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Speaker 2: the Chinese Communist Party aligning with Ford and coming to

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Speaker 2: the US. Now, Ford isn't building their new car factories here.

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Speaker 2: Let me make this clear. They're not manufacturing vehicles in

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Speaker 2: this new vehicles in the state of Michigan. They're not

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Speaker 2: building new factories to manufacture vehicles in the state of Michigan.

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Speaker 2: The new factory will be a partnership with the Chinese

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Speaker 2: Communist Party company that will build batteries, but it will

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Speaker 2: not increase sales for Ford here in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: That's correct, And I think the promise of your first

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Speaker 1: question was I think Governor Youngkin was probably advised and

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Speaker 1: briefed wholly on the issue of this particular issue with Cattle,

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Speaker 1: and that the fact that Cattle is a Chinese company

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Speaker 1: at the behest of the Communist Party intelligence services and

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Speaker 1: governing I can make it made a constant decision, not

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Speaker 1: in my backyard now Michigan. Now, I'm not quite sure

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Speaker 1: who briefed the governor and who didn't brief her or.

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Speaker 2: She was completely aware of this.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the board of Ford,

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Speaker 1: the CEOs and executives knew what they were getting into,

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Speaker 1: and they made a conscious decision to partner with an

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Speaker 1: organization or company in China that could actually hold them

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Speaker 1: at Bay for decades because they controlled the electrical vehicle

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Speaker 1: batteries in their Ford vehicles.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there's also some control that Ford has

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Speaker 2: over elected officials here in the state of Michigan because

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Speaker 2: we have so few jobs, we have so few manufacturing

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Speaker 2: companies coming here, and they really have a hold on

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Speaker 2: the state because so much of our tax dollars go

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Speaker 2: into their factories. Right now, they already have cut these

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Speaker 2: deals with the governor, with past governors, we have legacy

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Speaker 2: costs going into the automotive industry for decades passed and

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Speaker 2: that will be decades in the future, and so I

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Speaker 2: think they feel that they have a little control. But

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Speaker 2: I also think there is a huge difference when you

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Speaker 2: look at a governor like Governor Youngkin, who has business experience,

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Speaker 2: who understands the business world and how global the global

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Speaker 2: economy works, as compared to somebody who's been a politician

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Speaker 2: their whole life, and maybe when they're building their team

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Speaker 2: around them, they don't understand the importance of having someone

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Speaker 2: who can advise them on foreign relations like this.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a spectacular point to d and I

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Speaker 1: think when you look at governor in Michigan or any

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Speaker 1: other governor, it's their obligation to put a team around

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Speaker 1: them that can advise and inform them of the perils

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Speaker 1: of such decisions, because lobbying is a big part of

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Speaker 1: our commerce world and our influence on politicians. But there

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Speaker 1: needs to be a stopgap measure so that elected officials

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Speaker 1: could say, hold on pause, look to someone to the

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Speaker 1: left or right and say, what do I really need

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Speaker 1: to know about this? Is our national security issue? Is

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Speaker 1: there a national interest issue as well as an economic issue?

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Speaker 1: I need to know that? And if those governors aren't

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Speaker 1: asking that question, and shame on them.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 2: the Tutor Dixon podcast. So what is the lobbying power

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Speaker 2: of the Chinese in the US, Because if you are

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Speaker 2: able to have I mean, obviously Ford has significant lobby

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Speaker 2: and power in the state of Michigan, and you have

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Speaker 2: the automotive industry in general that has a significant amount

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Speaker 2: of control over the governor if the governor so chooses

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Speaker 2: to allow the lobbying to have that much weight in

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Speaker 2: her in her decision making. But in Michigan, obviously lobbying

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Speaker 2: is significant when we look across the country at politicians.

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Speaker 2: How much has this ability to lobby politicians affected our

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Speaker 2: judgment on what we are letting into this country, Because

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Speaker 2: the big conversation right now is the amount of farmland

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Speaker 2: that China is able to come in and buy. A

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Speaker 2: lot of that farmland is being granted, and that the

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Speaker 2: signature on the bottom line is really coming from state

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Speaker 2: government saying, oh, yeah, this is fine, but why what

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Speaker 2: is happening?

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Speaker 1: Well, another great question. I think I spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time on Capitol Hill the last year or two

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Speaker 1: talking about this issue, specifically on how strategic the Communist

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Speaker 1: Party China is in attacking the purchase of strategic land

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Speaker 1: near our critical infrastructure or military basis through third parties

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Speaker 1: and other parties where by time the actual pen is

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Speaker 1: dry on the contract, no one even understands that it's

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Speaker 1: a Communist Party company or part of the Chinese government.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened in Michigan. I just want to say, exactly,

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Speaker 2: no one got that this was not an actual American company.

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Speaker 1: That's correct, and I think what we need to do

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Speaker 1: is go back to basics a little bit on these

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Speaker 1: these deals with you know, a little bit due diligence

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, who's actually buying this land? Because at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, if you're a farmer and

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Speaker 1: you have an opportunity to sell your farm for ten

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Speaker 1: x its value, that's the American dream. That's tremendous. But

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Speaker 1: someone in the process should be able to say, hold

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Speaker 1: on one second, let's do some due diligence, whether it

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Speaker 1: be America first or not, Let's find out who's buying

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Speaker 1: this land. Because it is three miles from a very

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Speaker 1: important military base. Right The question is who's obligation responsibilities

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Speaker 1: to do that, and that starts with the actual seller

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Speaker 1: in my mind.

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Speaker 2: So that's something that is kind of interesting here with

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Speaker 2: this Goshen plant in Michigan, because if we break this down,

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Speaker 2: you've probably been seeing a lot in the news this

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Speaker 2: week where the news has come out and said, oh,

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Speaker 2: the Goshen deal didn't go through well on eighty acres

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Speaker 2: of land. The Goshen deal has been put on hold

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Speaker 2: right now because the town the township board decided that

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Speaker 2: they would take a vote and say they were going

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Speaker 2: to take the zoning decision out of the county's hands

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Speaker 2: and they were going to make that a decision on

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Speaker 2: that would go into the board's hands a very few,

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Speaker 2: a very small group of people that would make the

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Speaker 2: decision to rezone farmland to make it industrial. Just so

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Speaker 2: happens that the same people that were going to vote

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Speaker 2: on rezoning the land owned the land. So there's also

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Speaker 2: this level of corruption where if you have the governor

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Speaker 2: signing off on something and saying, oh, yeah, this is acceptable.

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Speaker 2: You can sign off on changing over the zoning of

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Speaker 2: this land, you have to then dig deeper as the

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Speaker 2: community and go, wait a minute, the guy's selling this

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Speaker 2: land for probably, like you said, well over what it's worth.

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Speaker 2: I mean, at a certain point, who steps in here,

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Speaker 2: because it is hard for the local farmer to say,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to give up twenty five million dollars that

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Speaker 2: I would never see in my lifetime if the governor

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Speaker 2: has signed off on this, I mean, how deep does

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Speaker 2: this run? How do we protect against this when you've

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Speaker 2: got local folks that are really struggling that see this

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Speaker 2: pot of money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a great, great point, And I think it's happening

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Speaker 1: all over America. And I think this Discotian issue is just,

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Speaker 1: you know, one particular symptom of a bigger medical problem

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Speaker 1: that we have in the country. So think about this

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Speaker 1: in this particular situation. If I was to come there

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Speaker 1: and identify, the first thing I would look at is

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Speaker 1: what other incentives were given to the zoning issues the

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Speaker 1: mayor of the city council. Is there a pot of

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Speaker 1: money provided for economic development by the Chinese Communist Party

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Speaker 1: or organization to say, hey, listen, additionally to this Goshen plant,

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Speaker 1: we're going to give you ten more million dollars to

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Speaker 1: build a new park and a stream and finish this

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Speaker 1: particular situation of the school. And we're going to provide

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Speaker 1: security cameras for all your public schools. We're going to

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Speaker 1: provide some irrigation. That's what they do very well. The

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Speaker 1: old Belton Road is now in our local communities from

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Speaker 1: kind of And then if you're the community and if

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Speaker 1: you're that economic development personnel specialist or you're the mayor,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to say no to that because you don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily know that the long term threat and what the

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Speaker 1: implications are and actually what's the intent of owning that land.

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Speaker 1: I put the illness on the state of Michigan. The

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Speaker 1: state of Michigan has to have what I call like

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Speaker 1: a Scifius light. You know, a committee for foreign investment

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Speaker 1: in my state, someone who can regulate and take a

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Speaker 1: deep dive into say what's the strategic angle? Why does

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Speaker 1: this Communist party company want this particular land in this

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Speaker 1: part of Michigan. What is so special about that?

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Speaker 2: What has happened to the Democrat Party in the last

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Speaker 2: few years because they've seen to become the party of

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Speaker 2: big business. They've changed over from this really caring about

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Speaker 2: the environment. I mean, I believe that all of the

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Speaker 2: electric vehicles is like pseudo caring about the environment because

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Speaker 2: they're bringing in big money with this type of a deal.

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Speaker 2: They're creating deals for themselves behind the scenes. But then,

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Speaker 2: if you are so concerned about the environment, why would

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Speaker 2: any type of environmental review on Goshen be waived? A

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Speaker 2: company coming from the country that provides the most pollution

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Speaker 2: in the entire world, that would come into the Great

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Speaker 2: Lake State where we have one of the greatest resources

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Speaker 2: of fresh water in the entire country in the entire world,

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Speaker 2: we would allow them so close to that, but also

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Speaker 2: right next to a military based training Taiwanese soldiers. It

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Speaker 2: all seems very very fishy. What happened to the Democrats, Well.

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Speaker 1: It is fishy. Doesn't sound fishy, it actually is. You know,

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Speaker 1: in the FBI we talk about facts. What are the

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Speaker 1: facts or what do they take you? So again, in

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Speaker 1: this scenario, I would go to say, the permitting official

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Speaker 1: hoo provide that permit. Who are they and what are

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Speaker 1: their ties necessarily to the Communist Party and what lobbying

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Speaker 1: has been done with them? And why are they so

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Speaker 1: eager to waive this right democratic republic. It doesn't matter,

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Speaker 1: but there is an incentive for them to say I'm

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Speaker 1: going to forego my environmental cares for this bigger business

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Speaker 1: entity with the Communist Party of China. That's a no

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Speaker 1: note in my perspective, and someone has to hold that

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Speaker 1: person accountable to say, listen, what was your rationale for

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Speaker 1: waiving this environmental impact statement? And typically there's a financial

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Speaker 1: incentive down the line for that individual, their business, or

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Speaker 1: maybe there's a contract that got let out that provides

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Speaker 1: them access to the Chinese market in an analogous capability

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Speaker 1: for their family, their friends, or their town.

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Speaker 2: Well, if we go back to the Ford example with

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Speaker 2: the other business, because this is a different these are

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Speaker 2: two different factories that we're talking about. So if we

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Speaker 2: go back to the Cattle example. What would you say

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Speaker 2: to a Ford if they came to you and said,

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Speaker 2: is this a good partnership? Should we move forward with this?

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Speaker 1: It would have been an easy no. I mean, anyone

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Speaker 1: in the intelligence community of FBI would have said, hey,

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Speaker 1: Cattle not only is a Communist Party company, but it's

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Speaker 1: closely tied to the intelligence services of the Communist Party

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Speaker 1: in China. Everyone would know that if they asked that question. Secondarily,

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Speaker 1: from an economic perspective of longevity of our nation, especially

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Speaker 1: if this administration is trying to go into green energy

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Speaker 1: and renewables, you are now contracting and giving all the

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Speaker 1: electrical battery capabilities to a communist party who now has

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Speaker 1: supply chain control of you. Secondarily, what's the center for

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Speaker 1: anyone else in Michigan to want to incorporate or build

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Speaker 1: electric vehicle battery plant when they know they can't get

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Speaker 1: into the Ford ecosystem. It just makes no sense.

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Speaker 2: Is it something that you can even trust having a

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Speaker 2: company on our soil that is putting batteries into our vehicles,

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Speaker 2: a company that is an adversary that is looking at

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Speaker 2: I mean, we're talking about the concern over EMPs all

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Speaker 2: of these things that China could do, Why wouldn't they

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Speaker 2: just mess with our own vehicles? Why is that not

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Speaker 2: national security concern?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's a combination. Not only is an economic

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Speaker 1: issue for the Chinese, but it's also a supply chain hold.

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Speaker 1: Right anywhere the Communist Party are trying to can get

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Speaker 1: a supply chain hold on our US infrastructure, our domestic

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Speaker 1: and our tranquility of our nation, they'll take it. And

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Speaker 1: very analogous is the port cranes that we've seen around

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Speaker 1: their nation, ZPMC port cranes where they control all cargo

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Speaker 1: in and out of the US. The Communist Party China

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Speaker 1: does think about that, so in a time of conflict,

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Speaker 1: they can just switch a switch and say okay, no

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Speaker 1: more ships of being provisioned. Nothing comes in, nothing comes out.

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Speaker 1: We've already seen in COVID the ability for the Communist

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Speaker 1: Party of China to have a significant control on our

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Speaker 1: supply chain issues like this, and what Forard is doing

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Speaker 1: is at making it even worse.

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Speaker 2: What is the answer? I mean, how can we protect

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Speaker 2: as a nation, as local businesses? How can American businesses

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Speaker 2: protect against the danger of China?

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Speaker 1: I think American businesses, first of all, have to have

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Speaker 1: their eyes wide open and asked. They have to have

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Speaker 1: employees or an ability to ask someone what is the

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Speaker 1: short term and long term risk here with this business decision.

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Speaker 1: We're not saying I'm not saying don't do business with

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Speaker 1: a company in China or in China, but full well

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Speaker 1: know that when you do that, you're subserving to all

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Speaker 1: their new cyber laws, not security laws, and all your

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Speaker 1: data and third party data has to go to the

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Speaker 1: Communist Party and intelligence services. If you're good with that,

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Speaker 1: that's phase one. Phase two is what are the alternative

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Speaker 1: measures in the US for investment? Are there companies that

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Speaker 1: are very analogous to what you're trying to do in

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Speaker 1: China to build back better in America whatever you want

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Speaker 1: to call that invest in America, Try that first, because

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Speaker 1: at some point a tutor, we have to have an

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Speaker 1: understanding that the ability to build commerce and capitalism is

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Speaker 1: now intersecting very closely with national security and national interest,

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Speaker 1: and the closes we get to that, the better off

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Speaker 1: we're going to be. And that starts with awareness. And

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Speaker 1: I put the onus on the fifty governors of the

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Speaker 1: United States. They own their state eighty five percent of

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Speaker 1: all critical infrastructure is in our states and owned and

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Speaker 1: operated by the governor, the state and locals. So any

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Speaker 1: threat to our critical infrastructure, the governors have supremacy, and

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Speaker 1: I would profit there's probably only about in to ten

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Speaker 1: governors who have a really strong national security apparatus around them,

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Speaker 1: and that's tepic typically in the counter terrorism world, not

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Speaker 1: in the national security world. With respect to foreign nation

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Speaker 1: states like Russia, China, Iran, and I would say that

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Speaker 1: our profit that the governors need to provide a little

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Speaker 1: foreign investment sell together to say, advise me on some

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Speaker 1: of the strategic decisions our state is making that puts

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Speaker 1: our state at risk.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 2: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. We've had some new laws come

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Speaker 2: in to play in the past few years for cybersecurity,

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Speaker 2: and companies have been required to increase their cybersecurity, have

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Speaker 2: a secondary server, off site hold of their information someplace

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Speaker 2: else because we've had so many of these ransom attacks,

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Speaker 2: and that seems like also something I mean, you mentioned

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Speaker 2: cybersecurity with the Chinese and having them have some capability

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Speaker 2: of getting into your information. Is that a matter of them,

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Speaker 2: the concern of them shutting down businesses or is this

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Speaker 2: them sealing the IP What kind of concerns do you

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Speaker 2: have in the cybersecurity area if you are doing business overseas.

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Speaker 1: Tutor, great question, and I would say all the above.

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Speaker 1: So even if we forget about overseas. But here in

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Speaker 1: the US we've just seen the last few months China's

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Speaker 1: capabilities and intent to breach the State Department, Secretaries of Treasury,

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Speaker 1: Secretary of Commerce, their personal emails, their work emails. They

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Speaker 1: would do whatever they can to get a leg up.

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Speaker 1: So there's an espionage angle for information intelligence powerpoints. There's

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Speaker 1: also the ITOT China has been for a decade plus

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Speaker 1: putting malware in critical infrastructure into our capabilities to be

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Speaker 1: able to their choosing, shut down capabilities, electrical energy, gas,

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Speaker 1: natural oil, whatever they want to do. So for me,

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Speaker 1: it's an aspect of when you say cyber it's a

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Speaker 1: big range thing, not just theft of intellectual property and

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Speaker 1: trade seekers, but it's also potential to stop things from

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Speaker 1: running which will cause chaos in the US.

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Speaker 2: Is there the potential for some of these companies like

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Speaker 2: Goshen that's moved, that are moving in here very close

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Speaker 2: to military bases and we're seeing land purchase near military bases.

436
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: Is there a proximity issue where if you are close by,

437
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 2: you can then start shutting things down using technologies that

438
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 2: maybe the average person like me is not aware of.

439
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and again staying in the unclassified realm, if you

440
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: just look back the last five eight years of what

441
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: we had uncovered with Huawei and their communication systems and

442
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 1: their cameras on cell towers in and around military facilities,

443
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: their ability to videotape record and collect information on strategic

444
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: locations and being back to China is very easy, very simple.

445
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 1: So at the end of the day, if you are

446
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: the ghost issue, if you're somewhere around that space and

447
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: you say, wait a minute, there's a really strategic military

448
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 1: base around the corner, maybe we should ask DoD what

449
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: the threat is here? And then what are they looking

450
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: to put on this plant? Because typically what they'll do

451
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: is say, oh, yeah, here's our plant. But you know what,

452
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 1: we're going to put a three to foot tower to

453
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: help facilitate our software. Well, that's sounds that tower's for.

454
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: That tower is there to collect intelligence, signals, intelligence, cell

455
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 1: phone intelligence, and which we saw with a balloon best

456
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 1: possible there the capabilities are extraordinary with China, but the

457
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 1: capabilities are nowhere near the complexity of the intent of

458
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: China and what they want to do here in the US.

459
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 2: Well, I think that is the I don't know ignorance

460
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: of government here in the state of Michigan, because we

461
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: not only have this factory coming into Michigan, but they've

462
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 2: signed non disclosure agreements to the people know nothing about

463
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 2: this factory. They know nothing about what they're actually producing.

464
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: What we've been able to find out so far is

465
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: this is some sort of battery component that will likely

466
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 2: ship out of the country. It won't even be parts

467
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 2: that will be used in vehicles in the United State.

468
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 2: So this idea of being green and all of these

469
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: wonderful things, this is not for us. But you mentioned

470
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: the Chinese balloon. I want to talk about that because

471
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: you know, there's question as to what exactly this was.

472
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 2: The President has blown this off. If this were a

473
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 2: Republican president, we would still be talking about it to

474
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 2: this day. However, they did come out and say, oh,

475
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 2: it's been happening for a long time, we just didn't know.

476
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 2: Is it possible that they have been flying at an

477
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 2: altitude that we have actually not been somehow not been

478
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: aware of, and they're getting gathering massive amounts of data

479
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: in the United States, and if so, what happens with

480
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: that data?

481
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: So Tudor, I will parrot what the military has said. Yes, initially,

482
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: the US military has said that there was a domain

483
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: specific location, particularly however, many feet in the air where

484
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: we did not have nora AT or northcomp did not

485
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: have capability to monitor, so the Chinese took advantage of that. Now, however,

486
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: many balloons happened in the past that could be negotiated,

487
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: that could be argued, But the one that did come

488
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: across our nation was very sophisticated surveillance balloon with multiple

489
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: types of surveillance capabilities and sensors that flew right over

490
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: incredibly important not only military but nuclear sites weapon silos.

491
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: So for me, hopefully there wasn't As head of counter intelligence,

492
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: I was not aware of that happening prior to twenty

493
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: twenty one. But if it did happen, then shaman us

494
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: for not seeing that. But for anyone to minimize the

495
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: sophistication of this balloon is foolish and naive and probably

496
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 1: just hiding the fact that it was that significant of

497
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: a success by the Chinese Communist Party.

498
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I think we're all wondering. I mean,

499
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: obviously they came out and said, oh, this is a

500
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: weather balloon. And I understand that there's going to always

501
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: be things the government doesn't want you to know because

502
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 2: they want to be able to protect you from what's

503
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: what the threat is. But once they've done this, I mean,

504
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: we know that China is looking far ahead, much farther

505
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: ahead than in the United States. They're not in the

506
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 2: eight year Plan, They're on the one hundred year plan

507
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: right so they're far into that plan right now. Is

508
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: this a matter of them someday causing that chaos that

509
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 2: you're talking about, And I think when you say they

510
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: can cause chaos, it can be that suddenly your cell

511
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: phone stop, your car stops, you don't have any electricity,

512
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 2: and there is chaos in the streets. Is there a

513
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: chance that they have a plan to cause chaos and

514
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 2: then come into the US. What could we be looking

515
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,479
Speaker 2: at here? I think people are very cautious about what

516
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 2: they say, but China is a true threat.

517
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: Without a doubt. And two things here. I'll go back

518
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 1: to the balloon. First, I would put the otus on

519
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: the American people and members of Congress to ask the government,

520
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: Department of Defense and the FBI. Hey, you've had it

521
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: now for seven eight months. What was in that balloon.

522
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: Let's have some transparency. Let the American people know the

523
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: facts of what that balloon was and what was capable

524
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: of doing. That's number one. Oh, don't let the government

525
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: keep that silent. Number two. Yes, without a doubt, We've

526
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: said for a decade plus. We've said it publicly back

527
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: as far as two thousand and seven. And I coach

528
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: what China's capabilities are stop the American way of life

529
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: is unbelievable. They've been putting things in place for more

530
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: than a decade. Just think about what happened to America

531
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: just with the colonial pipeline issue, which wasn't that big

532
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: of a deal.

533
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 2: You forget about that, Yes.

534
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: And think about this if you are and this is

535
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: not me speaking, this has been analyzed by Department of

536
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: Defense and intelligence community. If you are going to make

537
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: a run at Taiwan and you are going to invade

538
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: or do whatever you want to do, act here in us.

539
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: First shut off the phones and the power in the

540
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: middle of winter. Do all those things what kind of

541
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: You would not get any widespread excitement for the American

542
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: people to help protect Taiwan when we are unable to

543
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: have cell phone communications or gas or power. There would

544
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: be no momentum for our government to help provide support

545
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: to Taiwan. When the Chinese have acted here domestically first.

546
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: It's terrifying, and I think that people are a little

547
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: unaware of the control that they can have. You bring

548
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 2: up the colonial pipeline, just shutting off that pipeline for

549
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: I mean, what was it twenty four hours, forty eight

550
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 2: hours that that was shut down, and we had people

551
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 2: that couldn't move their cars were just stuck on the highways.

552
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,239
Speaker 2: I mean the impact that you can have through the

553
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 2: communications system, through computer systems, to be able to turn

554
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 2: on and shut off people's cell phones, people's electricity, their

555
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: access to gasoline. I mean, this could shut down the

556
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: entire country. You make a fascinating point that if you

557
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: shut down the US, we're pretty distracted from what else

558
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: you might be wanting to do. And I think a

559
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: lot of people right now are so focused on Ukraine

560
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: they are not aware that this threat. The people who

561
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: are majorly involved in the threat against the United States

562
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: are closely watching how distracted we are with Ukraine right

563
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 2: now and what else they can do here in the

564
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 2: United States. It's scary. There's a lot more that we're

565
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: going to be covering with this. We'd love to have

566
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: you back on Bill Evanina, thank you so much for

567
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 2: being here today.

568
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: You welcome through. It's been my pleasure. Have a great day.

569
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: Thanks and thank you so much for being with us

570
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: today and joining me on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As always,

571
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: for this episode and others, go to Tutordison podcast dot com.

572
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: You can subscribe right there, or head over to the

573
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts

574
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: and join us the next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.

575
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: Have a blessed day.