1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: They say we're the weaker sex, but I don't know 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: about that for sure. Female killers plotting mass murder kind 3 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: of hard to believe. But true crime stories with Nancy Grace. 4 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for 5 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 6 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: one eleven. Let's kick it off with a young lady 7 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: named Lindsay Savannah Rath. Listen. Lindsay Savannah Roth was twenty 8 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: six and a recent college graduate living at home with 9 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: her parents in Geneva, Illinois, when she met James Gamble 10 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: on Facebook. He was twenty two, unemployed and living with 11 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: his parents in Halifax, Canada. Their online relationship blossomed, so 12 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: they moved a Tumblr where they shared their darkest obsession 13 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: with the Columbine massacre. They encouraged violence in one another 14 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: while creating a plan to create their own massacre in 15 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: a public arena. As they courted each other online, their 16 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: plan became clearer. The loner versions dreamed up their own 17 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: version of a Columbine style attack for Valentine's Day at 18 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: a Canadian mall. They were romanticized about the carnage they 19 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: would create. Then they would consummate their love for the 20 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: first time and kill themselves. That was the plan. When 21 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: Lindsay Savannirov hopped a plane in Illinois headed for Halifax, Canada. 22 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: You know, I hardly know where to start. That was 23 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: Dave mac joining us from Crime Online. You know, I'd 24 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: love to go to Crime online dot com investigative reporter 25 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: Levi page with me an all star Panela kirk Nurmie, 26 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: Jodi Aria's former lawyer. I know you hate to be 27 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: introduced that way, but that's your fault, Rmie, your fault, 28 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: totally not mine. Author of Trapped with miss Arius Parts 29 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: two and three. My final words, I'm not so sure 30 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: they're final. Doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, joining us from 31 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: Beverly Hills at Doctor Bethany Marshall dot Com Director, Cold 32 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, crime scene expert Cheryl McCollum, and of course, 33 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: leave my page, but I'm gonna have to go with 34 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall again. Okay, Doctor Bethany helped me. Please, 35 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: whatever happened to dinner in a movie? I mean, Willie, 36 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: you meet somebody online? And okay, I hate to boil 37 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: this down to bad relationships, but Why do you pick 38 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: a twenty two year old man who is unemployed and 39 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: living with his parents? Why? Why? And she's a college 40 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: helped me, Bethany. And she's a twenty six year old 41 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: college ground he is a college graduate. But all of 42 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: these homicidal fantasies she's having going to a mall being 43 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: like the column buying killers, glorifying them, all of these 44 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,679 Speaker 1: homicide idle fantasies seem to be wrapped up in some 45 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: kind of a love relationship with him. It's as if 46 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: the idea of killing is cementing her relationship with him, 47 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: like some sort of a Bonnie implide as if she doesn't, 48 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: as if she's unable to use her feminine charms, being 49 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: a woman, her brain, being college graduate, in order to 50 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: start a relationship with somebody. Okay, right there, right there, 51 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: you're bothering me, Bethany, Doctor Bethany, you're bothering me because 52 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: why do women have to go around? Okay, you know what, 53 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to another expert because I don't 54 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: like what you're saying. I'm gonna go to Cheryl McCullum. Cheryl, 55 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: if I thought I had to use my feminine charms 56 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: to snare my husband, I would still be alone in 57 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: my apartment reading case files. Okay, you can't plot to 58 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: get somebody. You have to just be yourself and find 59 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: the right person or let them just basically fall on 60 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: your head. You don't use charms. And Cheryl McCollum, did 61 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: you hear the part which Bethany Marshall conveniently ignored where 62 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: they want to have a mass shooting spree at a 63 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: mall then consummate their love in other words, have sex. 64 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: What right there by the bloody bodies? Cheryl, help me, 65 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: because Bethany, you're not helping me well when you're a 66 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: loner virgin, I mean, I mean that's putting a whole 67 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: lot of pressure on that poor boy that you know 68 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to do this one time, one 69 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: time only in the middle of this event. So the 70 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: whole thing is ridiculous, Nancy. And you know, for me, 71 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: it sounds almost like the freaky in cells. That's Jackie's 72 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: observation here in the studio, you know, the involuntary celibates. 73 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: But here's one difference. They have found each other online, 74 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: albeit in their parents' basement's respective. But what okay, Bethany 75 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to go out on Liam and go back 76 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: to you, all right, Bethany. The thought of shooting up 77 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: a mall, and they fantasize about the bloody carnage they're 78 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: leaving behind, right, and then they're what gonna have sex 79 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: across from the centabon? How's that supposed to work? Okay? 80 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: So here's what I'm thinking. Instead of using the normal 81 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: dating rituals. I think I was trying to say, instead 82 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: of like asking each other out on a date, you know, 83 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: like you said, oh I love this, or doctor Bethany Marshall, 84 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: Erase Era and Jurassic Erace didn't say that. Go ahead, 85 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: let's see Bethany Marshall do the backstroke. Go ahead. I'm 86 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: trying to get out of the feminine charms kind of thing. 87 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: I think what I was trying to say was, yeah, 88 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: you better dig deep and get out of that. They're 89 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: using something other than attachment, the slow unfolding process of 90 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: getting to know each other, dating, involving each other in 91 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: each other's communities, something other than that to cement their relationship. 92 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: They're using gore, homicidal fantasies, the idea of people running 93 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: away in terror, the idea of having a paranoid relationship 94 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: with the world that they're at the top and everybody 95 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: else is against them. That is the fabric of the relationship. 96 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: That is the glue that is holding both of them together. 97 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: And I would guess that both of them are very strange, 98 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: isolated loaners who have no other way to form connections 99 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: with people other than terrorizing. Much like the flasher on 100 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,559 Speaker 1: the street corner who opens his trench coat and tries 101 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: to frighten people and sees them running away. That's his 102 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: only way to feel alive and to feel connected and 103 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: to feel attached is to strike terror in the heart 104 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: of other people. That these two killers potential killers, don't 105 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: have normal ways to bond with each other. I knew 106 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: somehow you were going to work sex into this. I 107 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: didn't know how even though it's a flasher opening his raincoat. 108 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: You did say something that really made sense to me, 109 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: And that was the fabric of their relationship. Because it's 110 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: changed over the years. But now what David and I 111 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: talk about the most is the twins, their school, their 112 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: school projects, they're scouting, they're this, they're that, their health 113 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah, and are they online too much? 114 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: Should we have given them their phone? Just all that, 115 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: that is the fabric. That's what we talk about. These 116 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: two talk about blood and go. We're also in the 117 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: studio with me in addition to Jackie is Brett Brett 118 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: you're not married yet? Right? Okay? All right? Just so 119 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: you know, this young lady who's fairly attractive called herself. 120 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: Is this correct levipage crime online dot com investigative reporter? 121 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: Her nickname is Nightmare Nazi. What can you tell me 122 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: about this woman? So, Nancy, she actually came up with 123 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: that nickname because it was a character that she developed 124 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: when she was sixteen years old at a high school 125 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: in Geneva, Illinois, outside of Chicago. And it was a 126 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: role playing extracurricular activity that she did at high school. 127 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: And most of the people in this club would role 128 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: play warriors or sorcerers, something out of Harry Potter. But 129 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: when she was sixteen years old, she developed a character 130 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: sort of her alter ego called Nightmare Nazi, and she 131 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: drew this villainous looking woman with a long coat, a 132 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: gas mask, she carried a sword, she had the Nazi 133 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: symbol on her and that was back in two thousand 134 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: and eight, and then she became a member on white 135 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: supremacist Communities. She was quoted praising David Duke, a former 136 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: Grand Wizard of the KKK, and she posted fondly about 137 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: Dylan Ruth, who was the racist, terroristic murderer that gunned 138 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: down several people in a church in Charleston, South Carolina 139 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: as they were praying. Dylan Ruth, as I recall, comes 140 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: into a predominantly African American church, waits until everybody's praying, 141 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: and I know that moment you get to a certain 142 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 1: point in the church service and everyone prays, and then 143 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: you go into the Lord's prayer. It was right then, 144 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: while everyone had their eyes closed at Dylan Ruth opens fire. 145 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: And this is Sushi seeks out time stories with Nancy Grace. 146 00:09:54,280 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: Women masterminding mass killings. That's what we're talking about. It 147 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: are kicking it off with the self named nightmare Nazi. Okay, 148 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: her name is Lindsay Savannah Rath, and I want you 149 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: to take into an RCMP press conference take a lesson. 150 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: Information gathered suggested that a nineteen year old Timberly male 151 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: and a twenty three year old Geneva, Illinois female had 152 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: access to firearms, and it was their intention to go 153 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: to a public venue in the Halifax region on February fourteenth, 154 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: with a goal of opening fire to kill citizens and 155 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: then themselves. Evidence also suggested that two other males aged 156 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: twenty and seventeen of Halifax and Coal Harbor, respectfully, were involved. 157 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: Their role is still to be determined as part of 158 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: the investigation. Had they been able to carry out their intentions, 159 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 1: the possibility for a large loss of life was definitely 160 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: was definitely there. I would classify it as a group 161 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: of individuals that had some beliefs and were willing to 162 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: carry out violent acts against citizens. We had members of 163 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: the Geneva High School drama club as sixteen year old 164 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: Lindsay savannahra to immediately pick a character and improv. They 165 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: were expecting a sorceress and elf, a valkyrie, a female warrior, 166 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: but this very shy and clean cut teenager chose something 167 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: very very different and showed them a detailed pencil drawing 168 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: of Nightmare Nazi. That was her PERSONA joining me right 169 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: now as a man who knows all about devilish female killers. 170 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: Now he won't say a word about his client Jodi 171 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: Arias being a killer because he had to devote a 172 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: lot of his legal career to proving she was not 173 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 1: a killer. Kurt NARMI is with me author, I've Trapped 174 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: with miss Arius Parts two and three, my final words. 175 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: You can find it on Amazon, and it is quite 176 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: the read from that point of view as her a 177 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: defense attorney. Kurt Irman, you thought you had a bad 178 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: This woman actually calls herself Nightmare Nazi. What about that? Yeah, 179 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: I mean we can see these what we talked about, 180 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: what doctor Bethany brought up, I think is so important 181 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: because this Nightmare Nazi, she's a teenager, she's quiet, she's 182 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: a little troubled, but we don't see any action. But 183 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: when she connects through this true crime community, she finds 184 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 1: a partner in that action, and the vision becomes romanticized, 185 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: and the killing becomes romanticized at any cost, and that 186 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: becomes the sole focus of their life. It's like a 187 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: merger of these two sparks of destruction. You know, I 188 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: love the way you seized on the routine because when 189 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: she presented herself as Nightmare Nazi, she was a teen 190 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: in high school. She's twenty six now, still living with 191 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: her parents, and sparked up a flame online with another 192 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: deadbeat level with his parents, unemployed twenty two year old guys. 193 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: The photo that she the picture she drew included trench coat, 194 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: jack boots, gas mask those of an SS soldier, skeletal 195 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: hands clutching a dagger. That was who her alter ego is. Okay, guys, 196 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: take a listen to our France. At CBS Lindsay, Savannaath's 197 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: parents traveled to Canada from Illinois to learn their daughter's fate. 198 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: She pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit murder after plotting 199 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: a massacre at the mall. Today, she was sentenced to 200 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: life in prison with no chance of parole for ten years. 201 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: It certainly sends a clear message that anyone who would 202 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: think of participating in something to this extreme, the random 203 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: killing of innocent citizens, will suffer very serious consequences. Back 204 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: in February twenty fifteen, Savannareth wasn't worried about that. I've 205 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: purchased the plane ticket. I'm leaving for Canada tomorrow and 206 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: the only way I'm coming back is in a body bag, 207 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: she wrote to a friend. Seven and a half weeks earlier, 208 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: she met Nova Scotian James Gamble online. The two quickly 209 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: bonded over a shared fascination of the Columbine massacre, chatting 210 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: online every day planning to open fire in the food 211 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: court at the Halifax Shopping Center. Gamble had already tried 212 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: to partner with his best friend, Randy Shepherd, but while 213 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: Shepherd supported the plan, he wanted Gamble to kill him 214 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: before the massacre itself. What a bunch of crazy, homicidal 215 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: maniac stewing in the same pot. And I'm looking at 216 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: the drawings she made and this is at a high school, 217 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: and it's really scary. Her persona alter ego, the Nightmare Nazi, 218 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: has the face covered, holding a giant kind of like 219 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: the Graham Reaper and holding a giant dagger. The good 220 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: news they caught her and her creepy boyfriend, I guess 221 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: still hiding out this parents' basement before they could unleash 222 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: a hail of bullets at the Cinnamon and the Spencer's 223 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: Gift and the J. C. Pennies Flagship Mall. Long story short, 224 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: how do women end up planning a homicide of this 225 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: nature mass killing? Luckily we have a shrink and a 226 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: crime scene expert. I figure it out, but I want 227 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: you to Listen now to another young mess Her name 228 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: Brian Massarik. Listen to our friends at CBS Fort Miami, 229 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: Florida stripper has been charged with threatening a mass shooting. 230 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: Lakeland Police say thirty one year old Brian Bossa Rich 231 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: posted about her homicidal urges on social media under the 232 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: user name taking Lives. According to an arrest Affi David, 233 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: she said she had a vision of a bar we're 234 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: club with only one entrance and exit, and that she 235 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: planned to purchase. In a Our fifteen quote soonish. In 236 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: by News nine reports, she described herself as a great 237 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: admirer of serial killers in mass murderers. A great admirer 238 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: of serial killers and mass murderers. Her nickname, her handle, 239 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: her moniker is taking lives. Okay, Cheryl McCollum's Sideley, You 240 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: and I have been many a strip club. Oh yeah, 241 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: usually in the off hours, and they're really nasty in 242 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: the daytime. I've been there inside in the parking lot 243 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: trying to find witnesses. So this is a stripper, and 244 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: you know, there's that stereotype like kind of on what 245 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: was it with Julia Robertson, a pretty woman. So she's 246 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: this good hearted Hooker. Well, that may have been true 247 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: with Julia Roberts, but in this case, very rarely do 248 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: you find the heart of gold stripper or a stripper 249 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: putting herself through college or just trying to get her 250 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: children through private school. That is a crop of bs. Okay, 251 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: that's not true, man. They just want your money. When 252 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: they look at you, they don't think you're handsome. They 253 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: think you're an ATM machine and it works. So here 254 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,719 Speaker 1: we have a stripper who's not necessarily after all our 255 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: clients money, if you could call them clients, but she 256 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: is quote taking lives. Why do men cling to the 257 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: idea of the good heartiest stripper? I mean, Cheryl McCollum, 258 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: you and I have had to look for witnesses a 259 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: strip clubs. It ain't all that, Cheryl. It is not 260 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: all that, Nancy. No, it's usually a very sad story 261 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: if you get to it. Most strippers have been true 262 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: abused and most are strung out. So it's really not 263 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: a Julia Roberts pretty woman movie at all. What concerns 264 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: me about this story is you have a woman that 265 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: has picked a soft target, which most of them do, 266 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: and a soft you know what I mean by a 267 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: soft target is there's not going to be a lot 268 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: of guns where they're going. There's not gonna be anybody 269 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: that's probably going to stand up and stop them. So 270 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: people tend to pick churches, they pick workplaces where they 271 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: know there's not weapons, they pick schools, things of that nature. 272 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: So here that's what she's done as well. They also 273 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: tend to have this fantasy of fame and notoriety of 274 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: some form. They want to go out in a blaze 275 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 1: of glory. They want people to know them. A lot 276 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: of people are chasing Columbine. They want that number. So 277 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: that's the thing as a criminologist that concerns me about 278 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: what I'm hearing, Well, what do you mean by they 279 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: want that number? That number of they want to be 280 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,239 Speaker 1: This is the worst mass shooting in American history, this 281 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: is the worst mass shooting in the world. They want 282 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: that number, Which is another reason. There's an argument that 283 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: we don't publicize their names anymore. We don't talk about 284 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: them anymore, you know, we should talk only about the victims. 285 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: So hopefully that will deter people from chasing that goal 286 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: of I want to be known as what Columbine God 287 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace we are talking about it's 288 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: against every stereotype you've imagined young women, and I've noticed 289 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: they are all fairly young jackie who fantasize not about 290 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: walking down the aisle or a big career, or moving 291 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: to New York City, or being a star, going to 292 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: VET school or being a doctor. They dream of mass murder. 293 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: And it is a contradiction, a great, a deep divide, 294 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: and a contradiction of what we expect of women. Mass 295 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: killer one Bees and Bethany take a listen again to 296 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: our friends at CBS four. This is matt URIs. A 297 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: Florida stripper has been charged with threatening a mass shooting. 298 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: Lakeland police say thirty one year old Brian Bossa Rich 299 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: posted about her homicidal urges on social media under the 300 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: user name taking Lives. According to an arrest Affi David, 301 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: she said she had a vision of a bar or 302 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: club with only one entrance and exit, and that she 303 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: planned to purchase an aar fifteen quote soonish in Bay 304 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: News nine reports, she described herself as a great admirer 305 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: of serial killers. In mass murderers, guys are talking now 306 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: about a Florida's stripper arrested for a threatening mass shooting 307 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: after admitting she had urges to kill, wanting to buy 308 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: an AAR fifteen, and having a prophetic vision of a 309 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: single exit bar or club on a busy night on 310 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: social media. It sounds a lot like Pulse. Do you 311 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: remember that? To you, doctor, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining me 312 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: out of LA sounds a lot like she was having 313 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: visions of the Pulse nightclub. Nancy. Can I figure that 314 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: on that? Because what were you saying, Bethany? Well, I 315 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: just what Cheryl said about these women wanting to be 316 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: famous is so important. They do confuse infamy with being famous. 317 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: There's a large copycat component to this, like the Pulse 318 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: night club. I decided to do a little experiment before 319 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: today's show, Nancy. Instead of a literature and thinking deeply 320 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: about all of this, I decided to pay attention to 321 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: what you and the guests were saying and analyze it 322 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: like I would have patients. And what I'm hearing is 323 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: that these women's crimes follow the same trajectory as male crimes, 324 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: which is so unusual. Men who have school shootings always 325 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: want that fish in a barrel, quality one entrance, one exit. 326 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: The doors are locked. They're at the top of the stairs, 327 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: the victims are at the bottom. There's a power imbalance. 328 00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: Often the fantasy's foment during high school, the idea idea 329 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: that they are at some lower rung or being bullied 330 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: by peers, and they're going to correct that power and 331 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: balance through school shootings or through idealizing the Columbine shooters. 332 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: And then the final element, and we see this with 333 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 1: men and now with women, that they always romanticize the 334 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: crimes through online writings, through relationships, through poems, through glorifying, 335 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: and now most recently through memes. That they think a 336 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: lot about this, and they confess their homicidal fantasies ahead 337 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: of time. And there seems to be an element of 338 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: a compulsion. All of these women said that they were 339 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: thinking about it, that they were homicidal. A compulsion is 340 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: a build up of feelings outside of awareness that can 341 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: only be neutralized by an act, meaning there's all kinds 342 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: of horrible feelings that they're not processing in the idea 343 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: of killing people neutralizes all of these horrible underlying feelings, 344 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: so that becomes their only raison d'etra in life. That's 345 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: the only thing they can think about. Is neutralizing feelings 346 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: of being inadequate by killing other people. I'm reading her 347 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: post and it says, in big letters, I had a 348 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: vision dot dot dot of a very public place, only 349 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: one way in and one way out, preferably a bar 350 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: slash club on a busy night. This year has a 351 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: lot in store if my plans go according all right 352 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: then hashtag fingers crossed, hashtag bar, hashtag club. Anonymous asks her, 353 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: what do you need an aar and they're talking, of 354 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: course about an AR fifteen. What do you need an 355 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: AR four? And she responds for shooting and does the 356 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: emoji of the sticking the tongue out and the smiley faced. 357 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: Now what we are looking at is a young woman 358 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: homicidal bent who seems to have a double life. She 359 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: has a job albeit is just stripper. She's really physically pretty. 360 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: Her face is also pretty. But this is what's going 361 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: on in that head. You know? To you kirknrmy who 362 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: defended Jody Arius, now convicted in the brutal murder of 363 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: her lover, Travis Alexander. So many people believe Jodi Arius 364 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: is beautiful. She still gets love ladders, marriage proposals behind bars. 365 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: But there's totally snakes in her head obviously, Kirk, I'm 366 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: a trial lawyer, not a shrink with all the words 367 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: that Bethany has, But I think snakes in her head 368 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: is pretty good way to describe Jodi Aris and this 369 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: woman too. I mean, on the outside they look so normal. 370 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,719 Speaker 1: How long did you have to talk it to Arias 371 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: before she realized while she's not legally insane, there are 372 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: snakes in her head. Well, I think snakes in the 373 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: head is a good example. And the problem is Nancy 374 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: that these people want to release these snakes, right, they 375 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: get this vision, they want to release it. And part 376 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: of it is I think doctor Bethany said this, there 377 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: is a for notoriety. There is a quest for fame. 378 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: I mean we saw in Jodi Arius's case, she gave 379 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: interviews days after she was arrested and was on CBS 380 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: forty eight hours a couple of days when she was 381 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: after she was extradited to California. So there is this 382 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: quest for attention to release these snakes and to be 383 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: seen as someone prominent, someone who wants admiration. And as 384 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: we see, there is a circle of admiration, right. We 385 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: see Miss Batcherich had had an admiration for the school 386 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: shooters and things like that, and they they want that 387 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: sort of fame and adulation themselves, and that's part of 388 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: they're releasing those snakes into the world now. She states 389 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: that she adored and supported Dylan Ruth and does everybody 390 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: remember who Dylan Ruth is? For those of you that 391 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: don't recall the Devil's Minions straight from Hell, leavipay choose 392 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: Dylan Race. So, Dylan Ruth was a young man in 393 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: Carolina that gunned down several people in Emmanuel Church are 394 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: predominantly from American church, nine people as they were praying. 395 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,719 Speaker 1: They invited him into their church. Nancy treated him very kindly, 396 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: and in return, he took out a gun and gunned 397 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: nine of them down as they prayed. And she posted 398 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: a video in one of his court appearances where he 399 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: spoke and she said that he had quote an adorable voice. 400 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: And when members of this tumbler community were responding to 401 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: her saying why she's posting him, why she likes him, 402 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: she says, quote, I adore and support him and have 403 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: from day one. She also was a big supporter of 404 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: Nicholas Cruz, who was the shooter in the Florida High 405 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: School in Park. She posted his baby pictures and talked 406 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: about how cute he was. Okay, I just had to 407 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: drink that in for a moment because I have a 408 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: picture of my husband that his his dad had a 409 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: fall and passed away just suddenly. Then just a few 410 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: months after that, his mom passed away and just covered 411 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: in cancer. And David's sister went through a lot of 412 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: their things and brought us a picture of David as 413 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: a little boy. He looks like he's about two or three. 414 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: And Miss Lynch actually had his little booties bronzed and 415 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: they're there and I have that out for the twins 416 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: to look at. I don't have any baby pictures by 417 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: the time my parents had their third child. I have 418 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: like one picture and it's of me and my sister. 419 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: It's of my sister and I have to be in 420 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: the background. Long story short, you have to really love 421 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: somebody to put up their baby pictures, all right, to 422 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: put up their baby pictures. And she put up Dylan Roofs. 423 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: Is that what you said, LEVI? She had up Dylan 424 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: Roofs baby pictures. She posted Dylan roof but the baby 425 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: pictures were of Nicholas cruise, the school shooter at the Height, 426 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: the park plan shooter. Okay, glad you clarified that for me. 427 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about women, 428 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: female mass killer wannabes. What is going on in their mind? 429 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: And the reason it's such a phenomena is that not 430 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: only do we have completely incorrect stereotypes of women, but 431 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: not only that they seem to blend in to society. 432 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: You would never know they're at home plotting a mass killing, 433 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: you know, to you, doctor Bethany Marshall, somebody in addition 434 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: to me, it was talking about this woman, this one 435 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: bass Rich, and how beautiful she is. You just strip 436 00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: her gorgeous body, beautiful, really pretty face. There's some oh 437 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: oh oh. This is what led me to it, doctor Bethany. 438 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: She thinks that, I think, she said, Dylan Ruthe the 439 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: guy that unleash a hell of bullets on innocent worshippers 440 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: at a church in Charleston, South Carolina, killing nine African 441 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: American victims. She thought his voice was adorable, and that 442 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: immediately made me think of Scott Peterson. And once again, 443 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: was it HBO or was it Netflix that has just 444 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: done a documentary on Scott Peterson. Nobody in this room 445 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: saw it? What a and a? Oh? Was it a 446 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: and E? That painted him out to be innocent? Ridiculous? 447 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: He is not innocent, And everybody's sending me hate mail 448 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: because I know he's guilty. I don't understand that. But 449 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: my point is, doctor Bethany, so many people thought Scott 450 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: Peterson was handsome and attractive, college degree, good job. When 451 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: I looked at him, I just saw a big liar, Bethany, 452 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: you know those me and I've just got to tell 453 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: you about this guy that's he's a dad at the 454 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: children's school, and every time he walks in, and I 455 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: don't really know him as a person. He looks like 456 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: he has just come out of an ad from J Cruz. 457 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: Why does when I look at Scott Peterson, I just 458 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: see the devil and everything he says is a lie. 459 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: Everything what he told Amber Fry, his unwitting mistress, what 460 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: he told his wife, his family, everybody. How can you 461 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: look at someone knowing what they've done and think they're attractive. 462 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: I don't know. Because these women, like this stripper are 463 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: They're connecting and fusing elements that should not be fused. Together. 464 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: Imagine if you're raised in the household, and I'm not 465 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: sure if this was the case with his stripper, but 466 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: if you're raised in the household where your parent loves you, 467 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: feeds you, puts food on the table, but brutalizes you, 468 00:30:54,720 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: hits you, molests few, then you fuse sex, love, and buy. 469 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: Just like metal on metal, you cannot cry it apart. 470 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: So this stripper fuses sex. She's a stripper power, having 471 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: power over men in the club, exploitation, using them like wallets, 472 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 1: extracting money from them, death, killing, and idealizing the Parkland shooter. 473 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: It as if death, violence, aggression, love, sex, they're all 474 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: one and the same. They cannot be distinguished. So if 475 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: you interviewed this stripper, you would find that in the 476 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: matrix of her mind and in every relationship in her life, 477 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: all of these elements would come together in some particular way. 478 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: In other words, there is probably no pure relationship in 479 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:51,959 Speaker 1: her life where there's mutuality and respect and support and innocence. 480 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: The sex and the violence probably infiltrates every attachment system. Guys, 481 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: I've told you about too, female mass killer one of these, Well, 482 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: have no fear. I've got a third take a listen 483 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: to our friends at thirteen. ABC News authorities say twenty 484 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: three year old Elizabeth Lacron worshiped other mass murderers like 485 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: Dylan Roof and the Columbine High School shooters. She referred 486 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: to them as godlike. FBI agents foiled her plot to 487 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: commit an attack and identified second floor bar and Toledo. 488 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: She noted that there were two ways in and out 489 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: of the bar, which could be used as an advantage 490 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: when police and emergency responders arrived. It is chilling to 491 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: think what would have happened if miss Lacron had been 492 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: able to act on her plan. FBI agents say the 493 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: Toledo woman wrote letters and send books to the Charleston 494 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: church shooter, Dylan Roof. She allegedly told him I've been 495 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: thinking about you a lot and decided to send you 496 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: books every two weeks. The convicted killer has only responded 497 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: to four individuals, and Lacron is one of them. Well, 498 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: that's certainly something out of all the love letters, hate mail, 499 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: and fan mail that does old killer gets behind bars. 500 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: Dylan Ruth, the Charleston church shooter mass killer, he has 501 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: only responded to four. I guess that's her trophy. That 502 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 1: Dylan Ruth the serial killer, responded to her, I'm talking 503 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: about a young woman named Elizabeth Lacron to you Levi 504 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: Page Climb online dot com investigative reporter. Who is this woman? So, 505 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Lacron is twenty three years old and she, along 506 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: with her also twenty three year old boyfriend, Vincent Armstrong, 507 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: planned to carry out an attack on a bar in Toledo. 508 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: She visited multiple times. She was a regular there. She 509 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: wanted to learn the landscape to quote get a tactical advantage. 510 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: There were two exits, only two ways out. This is 511 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: a particular bar in Toledo she chose, and she was 512 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: charged with conspiring from with her boyfriend Armstrong from twenty 513 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: eighteen of April to December ten, twenty eighteen, to carry 514 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: out an attack there. They met online. They started dating 515 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: a few months later, and then they moved in with 516 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: each other. And when police went to the residence after 517 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: they were tipped off about best two, it was filled 518 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: with weapons and ammunition. Guys, take a listen now to 519 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: CBS Evening News correspondent Jeff Peaks, the FBI said today 520 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Lacron was obsessed with the idea of carrying out 521 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: a mass murder. She told an undercover agent that she 522 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: wanted to target a Toledo bar. She also discussed bombing 523 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: a pipeline or attacking a farm. Jeff Fortnado was with 524 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: the FBI. She stated she had been involved in a 525 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: plan to commit an upscale mass murderer, as she called it. 526 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: According to court documents, Lacron was active on social media. 527 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: On Tumbler, she posted photographs and comments glorifying mass murders 528 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: like the Columbine shooters and Dylan Roof. Roof, a white supremacist, 529 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: shot and killed nine African Americans in a Charleston, South 530 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: Carolina church in twenty fifteen. In the weeks leading up 531 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: to her arrest, Lacron wrote to Roof in prison. According 532 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: to court papers, he wrote back asking her to mail 533 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: him several books about civil uprisings and the Nazis. So 534 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: you thank after doing some hard jail time, Dylan Reef 535 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: would be finding another direction in his life. Instead, he's 536 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: asking for books on mass killing, civil disruption, and Nazis, 537 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: and this woman, Elizabeth Lacron, only too happy to oblige him. 538 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at ABC. This is 539 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: Tom Lamas Federal investigators had been watching this woman for 540 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,720 Speaker 1: months after a tip came in that she expressed wanting 541 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: to launch a violent attack. Just a few days ago, 542 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: she allegedly bought supplies used in pipe bombs, and that's 543 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: when authorities moved in. The FBI arresting twenty three year 544 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: old Elizabeth Lacron, alleging she was arming up to possibly 545 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: blow up a bar in Ohio. She stated she had 546 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: been involved in a plan to commit an upscale mass 547 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: murderers she called it, and her master plan was to 548 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: commit an attack at a bar in the city of Toledo. 549 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,399 Speaker 1: The FBI says she was in possession of an AK 550 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: forty seven, a shotgun, handgun, large amounts of AMMO, and 551 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: recently purchased two pounds of gunpowder and more than six screws. 552 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: Of course, the screws or to make a homemade bomb 553 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,919 Speaker 1: where they fly out and harm and kill people when 554 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: the bomb explodes. Not only that, she'd been staking out 555 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: a particular bar. The manager says she had become a regular, 556 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: was very nice to other people, and the bar had 557 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: only two exits, just like in her dreams. Guys, female 558 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: mass killers exist. Don't stereotype these women are not at 559 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: home knitting and making homemade meals. That's not what's going 560 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: on up here. You know, it's hard to take the 561 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: mask off a killer and reveal what's underneath, but that 562 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: it's a task for Lady Justice. Nancy Grace Crime Story, 563 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye friend,