WEBVTT - The Joe Rogan Intervention 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:20.236 --> 0:00:23.076 I was taking a road trip not long ago, listening 0:00:23.076 --> 0:00:26.036 to the Joe Rogan experience, as I like to do sometimes. 0:00:26.476 --> 0:00:28.596 It was an old episode he'd done with Robert F. 0:00:28.676 --> 0:00:32.516 Kennedy Junior, before he became US Secretary for Health and 0:00:32.596 --> 0:00:36.436 Human Services, the man responsible for running a massive medical 0:00:36.476 --> 0:00:40.236 science administration. By the way, I was once on Joe Rogan. 0:00:40.396 --> 0:00:43.276 It was a while back, and from my experience that day, 0:00:43.516 --> 0:00:46.396 I came up with a theory, which is that all 0:00:46.436 --> 0:00:49.556 the good stuff happens in any Rogan interview as you 0:00:49.636 --> 0:00:53.556 approach our three, when the guest has finally adapted to 0:00:53.676 --> 0:00:57.516 Rogan's particular seductive rhythms, and when all thoughts of the 0:00:57.516 --> 0:01:01.916 outside world have evaporated. If you listen to Rogan, in 0:01:01.956 --> 0:01:05.316 other words, you have to commit. And so on that 0:01:05.396 --> 0:01:08.716 car ride I did, and at the one hour and 0:01:08.716 --> 0:01:12.716 fifty two minutes mark, right on schedule, came in exchange 0:01:12.956 --> 0:01:18.436 which I found so fascinating, so peculiar, so downright weird, 0:01:19.276 --> 0:01:21.196 that I pulled my car over to the side of 0:01:21.196 --> 0:01:27.716 the road and said to myself, oh man, RFK was 0:01:27.756 --> 0:01:31.236 talking about measles, and he essentially tells Rogan the kids 0:01:31.236 --> 0:01:34.876 who die for measles don't die because of measles. They 0:01:34.956 --> 0:01:36.436 die because they're malnourished. 0:01:37.396 --> 0:01:40.236 And you know, it's hard for a disease to kill 0:01:40.276 --> 0:01:42.836 a healthy person. It's hard for an infectious disease to 0:01:42.956 --> 0:01:45.516 kill a healthy person with a rugged immune system. 0:01:45.676 --> 0:01:48.636 And then Rogan says evidence, well, not. 0:01:48.556 --> 0:01:50.956 The Spanish flu though, right, which. 0:01:50.756 --> 0:01:51.516 Is a good question. 0:01:52.236 --> 0:01:54.796 The nineteen eighteen Spanish flu was one of the most 0:01:54.836 --> 0:01:58.116 devastating pandemics in history. It killed as many as one 0:01:58.196 --> 0:02:01.436 hundred million people, and an overwhelming number of its victims 0:02:01.716 --> 0:02:05.876 were healthy and relatively young adults, in sharp contrast to 0:02:05.956 --> 0:02:09.076 the normal influenza mortality pattern on preying on the old 0:02:09.236 --> 0:02:13.076 in the infirm Rogan is asking, if it's so hard 0:02:13.076 --> 0:02:15.636 for a disease to kill a healthy person, then how 0:02:15.636 --> 0:02:19.996 do you explain the most devastating viral epidemic of all time? 0:02:20.756 --> 0:02:26.356 And Kennedy says, well, the Spanish flu was not a virus. Oh, 0:02:26.356 --> 0:02:30.236 and even Fauci now acknowledges that, and they you know, 0:02:30.276 --> 0:02:33.396 there's there's good evidence that the Spanish flu. There's there is, 0:02:33.596 --> 0:02:37.116 you know, not not a definitive, but very very strong 0:02:37.156 --> 0:02:42.276 evidence the Spanish flu was vaccine induced flu the deaths 0:02:42.356 --> 0:02:44.316 were vaccine induced. 0:02:44.796 --> 0:02:50.076 Three bombshells all in a row. One the influenza epidemic 0:02:50.116 --> 0:02:54.556 of nineteen eighteen was not caused by influenza. Two Anthony 0:02:54.596 --> 0:02:58.916 Fauci longtime had the National Institute of Infectious Disease at 0:02:58.996 --> 0:03:02.436 NAH and established. Of all defenders of the medical science 0:03:02.516 --> 0:03:07.276 orthodoxy agrees with me on this and three the real 0:03:07.396 --> 0:03:11.316 cause of the nineteen eighteen pandemic was a population wide 0:03:11.356 --> 0:03:19.076 reaction to a vaccine. I mean, my name is Malcolm Gladwell. 0:03:19.276 --> 0:03:23.156 You're listening to Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked 0:03:23.476 --> 0:03:29.716 and misunderstood. I already knew this about RFK JR. He 0:03:29.796 --> 0:03:32.396 says crazy things all the time. That's what our last 0:03:32.396 --> 0:03:35.716 episode was all about. It's his m o. He's a 0:03:35.756 --> 0:03:39.676 disciple of the obscure French nineteenth century biologist Antoine Beauchamp, 0:03:39.876 --> 0:03:42.996 whose claim to fame is that he completely misunderstood the 0:03:42.996 --> 0:03:47.436 foundational idea in modern medical science. I didn't pull over 0:03:48.036 --> 0:03:52.876 because of RFK JR. I pulled over because of Joe Rocn. 0:03:55.116 --> 0:04:00.076 This episode is devoted to the lost art of the interviewer, 0:04:01.076 --> 0:04:10.996 because some of us apparently have forgotten how to ask questions. 0:04:11.996 --> 0:04:14.276 When I went on Joe Rogan, it was before he 0:04:14.316 --> 0:04:17.636 had moved to Austin. He still lived in southern California 0:04:17.876 --> 0:04:20.476 and operated out of what seemed like an old airplane 0:04:20.476 --> 0:04:24.036 hangar somewhere deep in the Los Angeles suburbs. I can't 0:04:24.076 --> 0:04:27.276 tell you where exactly because I had to sign an NDA, 0:04:28.076 --> 0:04:31.276 but it was a vast open structure full of weights, 0:04:31.716 --> 0:04:37.156 monster trucks, dogs, and exceedingly fit young men clutching energy drinks. 0:04:38.276 --> 0:04:40.516 The studio was in the middle of the room, inside 0:04:40.556 --> 0:04:45.476 what looked like a repurposed boxing ring. It was so 0:04:45.556 --> 0:04:48.036 much fun that if Rogan's people want to be back, 0:04:48.676 --> 0:04:51.116 I would jump on a plane this evening, packing only 0:04:51.156 --> 0:04:53.916 a muscle shirt and a case of Red Bull to 0:04:53.956 --> 0:04:57.596 bring as a housewarming gift. I tell you all this 0:04:57.836 --> 0:05:00.996 just so you can imagine a scene. RFK Junior is 0:05:00.996 --> 0:05:05.316 a weightlifter himself, barrel chest, biceps like big chunks of 0:05:05.396 --> 0:05:11.836 hormone free non GMO ham boxing ring mano Amano. There's 0:05:11.876 --> 0:05:16.316 a tantalizing scent of testosterone in the air, and Kennedy 0:05:17.036 --> 0:05:22.756 just talks about all the things he likes to talk about, bautism, vaccines, 0:05:22.996 --> 0:05:27.476 refrigerated trucks the Hudson River. Then he gets to the 0:05:27.556 --> 0:05:33.636 nineteen eighteen flu full disclosure. The nineteen eighteen flu is 0:05:33.756 --> 0:05:37.316 one of my very favorite subjects. Many many years ago, 0:05:37.396 --> 0:05:39.836 I heard that a scientist had discovered that they were 0:05:39.956 --> 0:05:42.916 victims of the nineteen eighteen flu buried deep in a 0:05:42.996 --> 0:05:46.636 cemetery in a small town in Norway, high above the 0:05:46.716 --> 0:05:49.236 Arctic circle. So there was a chance that they had 0:05:49.276 --> 0:05:52.276 been frozen ever since, meaning they could be dug up 0:05:52.476 --> 0:05:56.556 and intact samples of the nineteen eighteen virus could be extracted. 0:05:57.396 --> 0:06:00.956 This fact made me so deliriously happy that I convinced 0:06:00.956 --> 0:06:03.716 my editors at the New Yorker to fly me to Norway, 0:06:04.116 --> 0:06:07.716 New York to Oslo, Oslo to Trompso, then across the 0:06:07.716 --> 0:06:11.596 Norwegian Sea from trumps So delng you're bin, just so 0:06:11.676 --> 0:06:14.636 I could walk across the tundra and see the cemetery, 0:06:15.156 --> 0:06:18.116 which I did, although I didn't linger because the guy 0:06:18.116 --> 0:06:21.396 at my hotel told me to watch out for polar bears. 0:06:21.796 --> 0:06:25.116 My point is I'm down for any nineteen eighteen flu 0:06:25.196 --> 0:06:25.756 virus talk. 0:06:26.756 --> 0:06:29.516 What are you saying that the Spanish flu was so? 0:06:29.676 --> 0:06:33.596 Rogan asks his question about the nineteen eighteen flu. So far, 0:06:33.676 --> 0:06:37.156 so good. This is what an interviewer is supposed to do. 0:06:37.556 --> 0:06:43.076 What is the documentation the you know I you said 0:06:43.076 --> 0:06:48.796 that Fauci HASGIVAUGI. 0:06:46.396 --> 0:06:50.076 Wrote an article in two thousand and eight and that 0:06:51.116 --> 0:06:54.716 I'm pretty sure it's two thousand and eight in which 0:06:54.756 --> 0:06:57.596 he acknowledged that it was not the flu that was 0:06:57.676 --> 0:07:02.356 killing those people, it was a back geological infection and 0:07:02.476 --> 0:07:06.556 a back geological infection. These days, you could one hundred 0:07:06.596 --> 0:07:09.716 percent you're all of it with an. 0:07:10.316 --> 0:07:13.196 The article in question is immediately googled. 0:07:13.716 --> 0:07:15.796 This is important to cover, right, So let's see if 0:07:15.836 --> 0:07:18.476 we can find this predominant role of bacteria pneumonia has 0:07:18.516 --> 0:07:23.916 caused death in pandemic influenza implication Yeah, of a pandemic 0:07:23.996 --> 0:07:28.116 influenza preparedness. So what this is saying is that bacterial 0:07:28.156 --> 0:07:29.876 pneumonia was the cause of death. 0:07:30.156 --> 0:07:31.076 What's three? What he says? 0:07:31.076 --> 0:07:35.316 The results conclusions The majority of deaths from the nineteen 0:07:35.316 --> 0:07:40.676 eighteen nineteen nineteen influenza pandemic likely resulted directly from secondary 0:07:40.956 --> 0:07:47.316 bacterial pneumonia caused by common upper respiratory tract bacteria. 0:07:47.396 --> 0:07:51.436 A proposition has been advanced. Google has been summoned, the 0:07:51.476 --> 0:07:56.156 proposition has been verified. Oh my god, mister virus himself, 0:07:56.636 --> 0:08:01.316 Tony Fauci is peddling this a line of bs. Fauci 0:08:01.396 --> 0:08:04.596 goes on and on about viruses, but then you actually 0:08:04.636 --> 0:08:07.716 read one of his papers and he admits the biggest 0:08:07.796 --> 0:08:12.596 viral pandemic wasn't caused by a virus at all. It 0:08:12.636 --> 0:08:17.036 was caused by a runaway bacterial infection. Did you hear 0:08:17.076 --> 0:08:22.076 that sigh from Joe becauseau was a moment on Joe 0:08:22.116 --> 0:08:25.676 Rogan where someone in a position of power really really 0:08:25.716 --> 0:08:30.916 bumps Joe out. But wait, did Fauci actually say that? 0:08:32.716 --> 0:08:35.316 When I heard Rogan read that conclusion, the word that 0:08:35.396 --> 0:08:40.796 jumped out for me was secondary. One of the things 0:08:40.996 --> 0:08:43.956 that a respiratory virus, like the flu or covid for 0:08:43.996 --> 0:08:46.956 that matter, does is attack the cells that line the 0:08:46.956 --> 0:08:50.996 walls of your lungs. The cells die, they can become leaky, 0:08:51.356 --> 0:08:54.556 your lungs fill with fluid. In severe cases, you come 0:08:54.556 --> 0:08:58.436 down with viral pneumonia, and in that state you often 0:08:58.436 --> 0:09:02.636 get hit by a second round of pneumonia, this one 0:09:03.116 --> 0:09:08.356 caused by a bacteria. That's the secondary infection which follows 0:09:08.756 --> 0:09:11.076 as result of the primary infection. 0:09:11.876 --> 0:09:15.196 An analogy that I've used when I've been trying to 0:09:15.556 --> 0:09:18.956 talk about this phenomenon is trauma. 0:09:19.436 --> 0:09:23.756 This is Benjamin Singer, a pulmonary specialist at Northwestern University. 0:09:24.276 --> 0:09:28.956 So, a motor vehicle trauma that occurs as a primary event, right, 0:09:29.596 --> 0:09:32.836 it happens many, many times a day. And in severe trauma, 0:09:33.156 --> 0:09:35.436 you have hemorrhage, you have blood loss that can become 0:09:35.516 --> 0:09:38.236 life threatening. Patients will go to the operating room to 0:09:38.356 --> 0:09:41.756 try to prevent the hemorrhage from causing death. But in 0:09:41.796 --> 0:09:44.956 some cases patients, unfortunately, if the trauma is severe enough, 0:09:44.996 --> 0:09:49.596 do die from hemorrhage. But you wouldn't say that there 0:09:49.836 --> 0:09:54.956 is a problem with hemorrhage just befalling people. Right. It 0:09:55.036 --> 0:09:57.916 ultimately was the car crash. It was the trauma that 0:09:58.076 --> 0:09:59.996 was the initial cause. 0:10:00.676 --> 0:10:03.716 Singer published a study not long ago showing that in 0:10:03.756 --> 0:10:07.956 many COVID victims, it was that second bacterial infection that 0:10:08.116 --> 0:10:13.636 killed them. In the absence of viral infection. Would what 0:10:13.636 --> 0:10:16.476 would your odds of having a bacterial pneumonia be? 0:10:16.516 --> 0:10:16.956 Would they be? 0:10:17.316 --> 0:10:19.956 I mean, are you getting the bacterial pneumonia in large 0:10:19.956 --> 0:10:22.596 part because your body is so weakened by the viral attack. 0:10:22.876 --> 0:10:26.676 Yeah, that's a key point. These are not bacterial pneumonias 0:10:26.716 --> 0:10:28.276 that would have occurred on their own. 0:10:28.356 --> 0:10:28.836 They aren't. 0:10:29.196 --> 0:10:32.876 They are occurring only because of the heightened susceptibility of 0:10:32.916 --> 0:10:35.436 the host having had the viral numoonia. 0:10:35.076 --> 0:10:35.636 To begin with. 0:10:36.316 --> 0:10:39.196 The Fauci study that Rogan googles and reads during the 0:10:39.276 --> 0:10:43.396 Kennedy interview involved looking at tissue samples from the lungs 0:10:43.396 --> 0:10:45.916 of people who had died during the Spanish flu, and 0:10:45.996 --> 0:10:49.436 what Fauci found was exactly what Singer found with COVID, 0:10:49.756 --> 0:10:52.116 that the virus so weakened the lungs of people in 0:10:52.196 --> 0:10:55.676 nineteen eighteen that they were vulnerable to a second fatal 0:10:55.756 --> 0:11:00.916 round of bacterial pneumonia. Kennedy somehow read that paper and 0:11:00.996 --> 0:11:04.516 completely missed its point. Fauci wasn't denying the role of 0:11:04.516 --> 0:11:07.556 the virus in nineteen eighteen. He was doing the opposite. 0:11:07.676 --> 0:11:11.236 He was explaining how the viaris did its damage. It's 0:11:11.236 --> 0:11:13.476 safe to say, isn't it. Kennedy does not understand the 0:11:13.476 --> 0:11:15.516 difference between of primary and a secondary infection. 0:11:16.356 --> 0:11:18.076 I think that's right. 0:11:19.036 --> 0:11:21.476 Rogan is a very smart guy. He's one of the 0:11:21.476 --> 0:11:25.236 biggest podcasters in the world. Rogan does mixed martial arts 0:11:25.276 --> 0:11:29.196 for fun. He's not afraid of anyone yet. RFK Junior 0:11:29.516 --> 0:11:33.716 goes on his show and says something so dumb that 0:11:33.796 --> 0:11:35.716 you couldn't get away with it in a high school 0:11:35.716 --> 0:11:40.316 biology class. And what did Rogan do? He just sighed 0:11:40.796 --> 0:12:00.516 and moved on. Joe, dude, what's wrong with you? The 0:12:00.596 --> 0:12:04.796 most natural form of human interaction is the conversation. Two 0:12:04.796 --> 0:12:09.916 people talking, unscripted, improvised. It ends when it is the 0:12:09.996 --> 0:12:12.756 roles of listener and talker are fluid. The endpoint can 0:12:12.796 --> 0:12:18.796 be any number of a million different things, consolation, admonishment, encouragement, seduction, joy. 0:12:19.636 --> 0:12:22.916 An interview is very different. It's two people talking with 0:12:22.956 --> 0:12:26.996 a purpose. One person asks questions of another with the 0:12:27.036 --> 0:12:32.516 intention of revealing something of consequence. Conversation is easy and natural. 0:12:32.956 --> 0:12:36.796 Interviewing is an acquired art. There are weeks where I 0:12:36.876 --> 0:12:39.676 might do ten interviews each an hour or more, with 0:12:39.796 --> 0:12:42.916 even more time devoted to preparation. I've been doing that 0:12:43.236 --> 0:12:45.796 my whole career, and only in the last five years 0:12:45.876 --> 0:12:48.076 or so do I think I've gotten any good at it. 0:12:49.636 --> 0:12:54.596 Interviewing is much much harder than conversation, but you know, 0:12:54.636 --> 0:13:00.196 it's even harder performance, the interview conducted for the benefit 0:13:00.276 --> 0:13:04.636 of someone else, an audience. This is what Oprah does 0:13:04.756 --> 0:13:09.316 better than anyone else. I recently rewatched Oprah's famous interview 0:13:09.436 --> 0:13:13.516 with Megan Markle, and oh man, that's a masterclass. You 0:13:13.556 --> 0:13:16.396 have an actress, that is, someone trained in the art 0:13:16.476 --> 0:13:19.796 of deceptive self presentation, who wants to air a carefully 0:13:19.916 --> 0:13:23.716 scripted grievance about her position as a royal princess, and 0:13:23.756 --> 0:13:27.276 the whole world intends to watch. The degree of difficulty 0:13:27.316 --> 0:13:30.316 on this one is through the roof. How do you 0:13:30.356 --> 0:13:34.476 get someone to leave behind their carefully created self. Oprah 0:13:34.756 --> 0:13:35.236 nails it. 0:13:37.476 --> 0:13:40.756 You certainly must have had some conversations with Harry about 0:13:40.756 --> 0:13:44.756 it and have your own suspicions as to why they 0:13:44.796 --> 0:13:48.716 didn't want to make Archie a prince. 0:13:49.516 --> 0:13:52.556 This is halfway in. Markle has revealed that the royal 0:13:52.596 --> 0:13:57.116 family is declining to give her firstborn son Archie, a title, 0:13:57.516 --> 0:14:00.836 and when she hears this, Oprah's eyes light up. I've 0:14:00.876 --> 0:14:02.956 been interviewed by Oprah before, and let me tell you, 0:14:03.196 --> 0:14:06.116 when she sees a moment coming, she climbs inside your 0:14:06.156 --> 0:14:08.116 head and starts to direct traffic. 0:14:08.756 --> 0:14:12.556 What are what are those thoughts. Why do you think 0:14:12.596 --> 0:14:15.956 that is? Do you think it's because of his race? 0:14:17.596 --> 0:14:18.956 That's sign And. 0:14:19.196 --> 0:14:24.876 I know that's a loaded question, but. 0:14:22.716 --> 0:14:24.476 But I can give you an honest answer. 0:14:26.436 --> 0:14:29.756 In those months when I was pregnant, all around this 0:14:29.876 --> 0:14:34.436 same time. So we have in tandem the conversation of 0:14:34.756 --> 0:14:37.476 he won't be given security, it's not going to be 0:14:37.516 --> 0:14:44.916 given a title, and also concerns and conversations about how 0:14:44.996 --> 0:14:46.756 dark his skin might be when he's born. 0:14:50.316 --> 0:14:51.996 What and. 0:14:53.636 --> 0:14:54.436 Who? 0:14:54.556 --> 0:14:57.476 Who is having that conversation. 0:14:58.316 --> 0:14:58.756 With you? 0:14:59.836 --> 0:15:03.516 So there is a conversation, can hold it? 0:15:03.636 --> 0:15:06.116 Hold up the several conversations. 0:15:06.116 --> 0:15:13.196 There's a conversation with you who with Harry about how 0:15:13.276 --> 0:15:14.716 dark your baby is going. 0:15:14.516 --> 0:15:17.716 To be potentially and what that would mean or look like. 0:15:17.916 --> 0:15:20.876 Ooh, And you're not going to tell me who had 0:15:20.876 --> 0:15:21.436 the conversation. 0:15:23.516 --> 0:15:25.276 I think that would be very damaging to them. 0:15:25.676 --> 0:15:30.036 Okay, Megan gets evasive. She says Harry was the one 0:15:30.036 --> 0:15:31.836 in those conversations, not her. 0:15:32.636 --> 0:15:34.556 It was really hard to be able to see those 0:15:34.556 --> 0:15:35.476 as compartmentalized. 0:15:35.516 --> 0:15:41.316 We're concerned that if you were too brown that that 0:15:41.356 --> 0:15:43.196 would be a problem. Are you saying that. 0:15:44.276 --> 0:15:46.396 I wasn't able to follow up with why. 0:15:48.516 --> 0:15:52.156 It's that last comment, of course, that is the most telling. 0:15:52.756 --> 0:15:56.796 I wasn't able to follow up with why Michael has 0:15:56.836 --> 0:16:01.076 thus far presented an artfully constructed narrative of trivial grievances 0:16:01.436 --> 0:16:04.076 designed to turn her into a punzel locked in the 0:16:04.076 --> 0:16:07.356 lonely tower. But at that moment, Oprah gets her to 0:16:07.396 --> 0:16:11.116 give us a glimpse of something real. Somebody high up 0:16:11.516 --> 0:16:14.436 was worried that her child would be too brown, and 0:16:14.476 --> 0:16:18.316 Meghan wasn't able to follow up with why even the 0:16:18.396 --> 0:16:21.076 choice of words follow up like there was a brief 0:16:21.116 --> 0:16:24.036 call with the Queen about Archie's potential blackness, but Megan 0:16:24.076 --> 0:16:26.276 wasn't able to get the queen's people to schedule assumed 0:16:26.276 --> 0:16:28.996 to provide more details, so she let the whole thing slide. 0:16:30.556 --> 0:16:34.876 Oprah is so good, and she's good because she knows 0:16:34.876 --> 0:16:37.876 how to keep pulling on a thread to get past 0:16:37.956 --> 0:16:44.836 what seems like an obvious revelation to a second, deeper one. Okay, 0:16:45.236 --> 0:16:49.196 now let's listen to Joe Rogan interviewing Elon Musk. This 0:16:49.356 --> 0:16:52.196 was just after Musk had given what looked an awful 0:16:52.236 --> 0:16:55.556 lot like a stiff armed Nazi salute at a Trump. 0:16:55.436 --> 0:16:58.876 Rally and now the same idiots are calling you a Nazi. 0:16:59.156 --> 0:17:01.596 It's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in my life. 0:17:02.796 --> 0:17:05.236 I mean, there's so many examples of people saying, my 0:17:05.276 --> 0:17:08.156 heart goes out to you get a little enthusiasm that 0:17:08.316 --> 0:17:10.516 probably wouldn't be with hindsight. 0:17:10.716 --> 0:17:14.276 Yes, but I was obviously meant in the most positive 0:17:14.276 --> 0:17:15.036 spirit possible. 0:17:15.116 --> 0:17:16.636 Yes, obviously obviously. 0:17:16.676 --> 0:17:19.196 But it's so strange where people want to think that 0:17:19.276 --> 0:17:25.156 you are openly public publicly doing secret Nazi se Kyle 0:17:25.476 --> 0:17:26.196 hand motions. 0:17:26.396 --> 0:17:28.356 And now I can never pointed things diagonally. I can 0:17:28.396 --> 0:17:31.996 only pointed things there and there, and then actually you 0:17:31.996 --> 0:17:34.876 have to divide that, yeah, because that's where the spaceship 0:17:34.996 --> 0:17:35.636 is over there. 0:17:36.356 --> 0:17:41.076 It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous, it's absurd. It's so it's delivery propaganda. 0:17:42.116 --> 0:17:46.116 Imagine for a moment what Oprah would do. In that moment, 0:17:46.516 --> 0:17:49.236 Oprah would ask, if you didn't want to be called 0:17:49.236 --> 0:17:51.836 a Nazi, then why did you give a Nazi salute 0:17:51.836 --> 0:17:54.316 in front of thousands of people. You'd ask that question 0:17:54.356 --> 0:17:56.996 because that's what everyone was wondering when they saw the 0:17:57.036 --> 0:18:00.396 offending image. Oprah would have put Musk on the couch, 0:18:00.756 --> 0:18:03.636 elon We all know you're a genius, but we also 0:18:03.716 --> 0:18:06.356 know you're super sensitive. You spend all day on Twitter 0:18:06.396 --> 0:18:09.556 responding to your critics, So why would you do something 0:18:09.636 --> 0:18:12.996 so perfectly designed to be misunderstood? Can't you just hear 0:18:13.076 --> 0:18:17.236 Oprah saying that, but not your Rogan? With Musk sitting 0:18:17.276 --> 0:18:20.236 across the table from him, Rogan chooses to have the 0:18:20.316 --> 0:18:22.796 kind of conversation that you would have with a close 0:18:22.836 --> 0:18:25.716 friend late at night to console them after they have 0:18:25.796 --> 0:18:29.276 done something really stupid. You know, what they did was stupid. 0:18:29.836 --> 0:18:32.196 They know what they did was stupid. But what are 0:18:32.236 --> 0:18:35.756 friends for to help us sustain the pretense that what 0:18:35.796 --> 0:18:37.876 we did wasn't stupid at all? 0:18:38.916 --> 0:18:42.276 It was obviously not meant in a negative way. That 0:18:42.316 --> 0:18:44.076 it was that I literally said, my heart goes out 0:18:44.116 --> 0:18:46.316 to you, and it was very positive. The entire speech 0:18:46.396 --> 0:18:50.596 was very positive. I was being very enthusiastic about the 0:18:50.596 --> 0:18:56.796 future in space, and that, you know, was great. 0:18:56.836 --> 0:18:57.156 Crowd. 0:18:57.676 --> 0:19:01.116 You know, so you got a little popped up, Yeah, 0:19:01.156 --> 0:19:02.076 it go popped up exactly. 0:19:02.116 --> 0:19:04.756 Ye, that's all it is. Obviously Obviously, obviously. 0:19:05.036 --> 0:19:08.196 Who among us has not inadvertently given a Nazi salute 0:19:08.236 --> 0:19:10.716 in front of the whole world after getting just a 0:19:10.756 --> 0:19:15.036 little pumped up, listen to Rogan long enough and you realize, oh, 0:19:15.276 --> 0:19:18.436 this is a pattern. Here's Rogan doing an episode with 0:19:18.476 --> 0:19:23.476 Matt Walsh, big figuring conservative media blogger podcaster. He was 0:19:23.476 --> 0:19:25.956 on Rogan to talk about a documentary he just made 0:19:26.276 --> 0:19:28.956 called Am I a Racist? Where he made fun of 0:19:28.956 --> 0:19:32.476 the way that progressive see racism around every corner, and 0:19:32.516 --> 0:19:35.876 at a key point in the conversation, Walsh says. 0:19:35.676 --> 0:19:37.756 This, there was no one who lived on Earth one 0:19:37.796 --> 0:19:41.036 hundred years ago who we would not consider racist anywhere 0:19:41.116 --> 0:19:44.236 of any race. If you go back two hundred years 0:19:44.716 --> 0:19:49.916 or earlier than that, almost everybody either owned slaves or 0:19:49.996 --> 0:19:52.796 was okay with slavery as an institution. You go back 0:19:52.796 --> 0:19:57.116 five hundred years, and there was nobody on the planet 0:19:57.556 --> 0:20:01.436 who considered slavery to be wrong fundamentally. They might have 0:20:01.436 --> 0:20:03.876 had issues with how slaves are treated in some context, 0:20:03.956 --> 0:20:06.596 but it took like thousands of years for it to 0:20:06.636 --> 0:20:08.996 ever even occur to a single human on Earth that 0:20:09.196 --> 0:20:13.636 slavery is actually fundamentally wrong, which is a crazy thing, 0:20:13.756 --> 0:20:15.796 and that's actually an interesting thing we could you could 0:20:15.836 --> 0:20:17.756 talk about and think about, like why is that. 0:20:19.756 --> 0:20:22.956 You go back five hundred years and there was nobody 0:20:22.956 --> 0:20:26.556 on the planet who considered slavery to be wrong. Now, 0:20:26.996 --> 0:20:31.516 once again, let us imagine Oprah in this moment. Oprah 0:20:31.796 --> 0:20:34.836 would have sat up straight. Oprah would have stopped him 0:20:34.916 --> 0:20:38.356 right there, Matt. There were lots of people five hundred 0:20:38.396 --> 0:20:41.476 years ago who considered slavery to be wrong, millions of 0:20:41.516 --> 0:20:49.276 them slaves, exactly right. You think Moses led the Israelites 0:20:49.316 --> 0:20:52.156 out of slavery in Egypt just because he thought the 0:20:52.196 --> 0:20:54.836 schools were better in the Promised Land. You think the 0:20:54.956 --> 0:20:58.236 millions of people who were brutally rounded up in West Africa, 0:20:58.396 --> 0:21:02.036 torn from their families and communities, marched onto slavery ships 0:21:02.356 --> 0:21:06.876 and shipped overseas in brutal conditions, were ambivalent about the 0:21:06.876 --> 0:21:10.356 social institution they are being forced to join. And why 0:21:10.396 --> 0:21:13.356 would Oprah have stopped Matt Walsh at that moment? Not 0:21:13.476 --> 0:21:15.836 just because she would have felt compelled to correct this 0:21:15.956 --> 0:21:20.716 spectacular bit of foolishness, but because her job, as she 0:21:20.796 --> 0:21:24.276 sees it, is to reveal something of importance about her 0:21:24.316 --> 0:21:29.836 subjects to her audience. And here was a golden opportunity. 0:21:30.996 --> 0:21:33.596 Do you want to know who Matt Walsh is? He 0:21:33.676 --> 0:21:37.316 is someone who constructed a history of slavery and forgot 0:21:37.356 --> 0:21:43.116 all about the slaves. But Joe Rogan, when presented with 0:21:43.196 --> 0:21:46.476 that same opportunity, just wants to sit and chat. 0:21:47.356 --> 0:21:50.836 Well, I've had friends that have a different perspective on 0:21:50.876 --> 0:21:53.876 the Obama situation. And my friend Willie was talking to 0:21:53.956 --> 0:21:56.036 me about this, and he was saying that what happened 0:21:56.196 --> 0:22:00.476 was when you look one thing that we can be 0:22:00.516 --> 0:22:04.836 sure of, is it racist, surreal? And when Obama became president, 0:22:04.916 --> 0:22:09.036 those people became more embolden Obama. 0:22:09.116 --> 0:22:10.236 What does Obama have to. 0:22:10.196 --> 0:22:10.636 Do with this? 0:22:11.116 --> 0:22:14.556 And who's Willie Willie Nelson? But of course we never 0:22:14.596 --> 0:22:18.716 find out. It's none of our business. All of which 0:22:19.156 --> 0:22:21.876 is to say, the warning signs were there from the 0:22:21.956 --> 0:22:24.756 very beginning of the RFK Junior interview. 0:22:25.916 --> 0:22:28.756 And so then we run into each other and Aspen. 0:22:30.996 --> 0:22:33.556 Just Randa is the weirdness moment because we were both 0:22:33.556 --> 0:22:34.516 staring at each other. 0:22:34.676 --> 0:22:37.156 Yeah, and then we almost did it like a full three. 0:22:37.116 --> 0:22:42.036 Six Yeah, yeah, yeah, I noticed you walking. 0:22:42.076 --> 0:22:45.796 I'm like, that's it is, So I said, hey, what's up. 0:22:48.516 --> 0:22:49.796 It was just going to be the two of them 0:22:49.836 --> 0:23:06.196 in the room. The rest of us weren't invited, Do 0:23:06.236 --> 0:23:10.676 I like evesdropping on Joe Rogan's conversations. I do, That's 0:23:10.676 --> 0:23:12.916 why I listen to his show. But there are times 0:23:12.996 --> 0:23:16.236 when the conversational mode doesn't work, and when you have 0:23:16.356 --> 0:23:19.836 RFK Junior on, that's definitely one of those times. So 0:23:19.956 --> 0:23:23.636 let's start from the beginning and redo the RFK Junior conversation, 0:23:23.996 --> 0:23:26.076 only this time with an eye to all the things 0:23:26.076 --> 0:23:31.276 that a conversation between friends does not cover. Okay, Kennedy 0:23:31.356 --> 0:23:35.636 now elaborates on his theory of the nineteen eighteen influenza epidemic, 0:23:36.196 --> 0:23:39.956 what caused all those bacterial infections that he believes with 0:23:40.076 --> 0:23:42.556 the real source of all those millions of deaths. 0:23:43.076 --> 0:23:45.596 You know, I read an article reasonably, and you can 0:23:45.636 --> 0:23:51.476 look up these articles pretty easily. But the article that 0:23:51.596 --> 0:23:55.796 I read made a very strong case that the illness 0:23:55.916 --> 0:24:00.116 came from testing a new vaccine in Kansas at a 0:24:00.196 --> 0:24:01.716 military base in Kansas. 0:24:03.436 --> 0:24:06.836 What should the interviewer do in this moment, or at 0:24:06.956 --> 0:24:09.556 least before letting this kind of thing go out into 0:24:09.556 --> 0:24:13.556 the world. Well, since this is a pretty dramatic claim, 0:24:13.836 --> 0:24:16.996 they should figure out what Kennedy is referring to. What 0:24:17.076 --> 0:24:19.636 are these articles that led him to such a radical 0:24:19.676 --> 0:24:24.756 reinterpretation of one of the most famous viral epidemics in history. 0:24:24.916 --> 0:24:27.956 It turns out finding them is not that hard. It 0:24:27.996 --> 0:24:31.036 took me five minutes on Google and two phone calls. 0:24:31.596 --> 0:24:34.716 The first article I found is by Kevin Barry, an 0:24:34.756 --> 0:24:38.436 attorney based out of Siast on Long Island who wrote 0:24:38.436 --> 0:24:40.996 a two part series for vaccine impact dot Com in 0:24:41.076 --> 0:24:45.956 twenty eighteen called did a military experimental vaccine in nineteen 0:24:45.996 --> 0:24:50.116 eighteen kill fifty to one hundred million people? Blamed a 0:24:50.196 --> 0:24:58.236 Spanish flu? I was listening to rfk's appearance on Joe 0:24:58.276 --> 0:25:00.676 Rogan and they have that moment when they start talking 0:25:00.716 --> 0:25:05.676 about the nineteen eighteen flu, which is super fascinating, and 0:25:07.276 --> 0:25:10.756