1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Quality Times. But Joseph Scotten more about a month ago, 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: I was contacted by a news reporter, and it's not 3 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: unusual to have the press reach out to me. I'm 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: on these all these programs, and you know, I never 5 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, my wife always says, and my buddy Dave 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: always says, I'm not in a position where I can 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: really say no. And I take that to heart, and 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: I rarely do say no. But this, this was a 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: different phone call because it wasn't a national news reporter 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: from you know, one of the big, you know, traditional 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: mainstream media types. This was from a local news station 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: in Birmingham, Alabama, which you know, Dave and I roughly, 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, live about sixty five sixty miles I guess, 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: east of Birmingham, as close as big city for us. 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: And what she wanted to talk to me about was 16 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: something that was so mind blowing that had occurred in Birmingham, 17 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe what I was hearing at the 18 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: time because of the sheer scale of it. Most of 19 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: the time, when we talk about deaths in America, we 20 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: think of deaths in terms of numbers. Certainly that's the 21 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: way the media measures it, and to a certain degree. 22 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: Those of us that are death investigators, we remembered those 23 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: huge events because they're so complex and difficult to watch 24 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: and participate in. This had happened almost in our backyard, 25 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: and it was a single individual who is responsible for 26 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: fourteen homicides. Let me say that number again. Fourteen homicides 27 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: and multiple other injuries, and they didn't all occur at 28 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 1: the same time. That's what we're going to be talking 29 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: about on body Bags today. I'm Josephcotten Morgan and this 30 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: is body Bags. Brother Dave. You and I have spent 31 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: a considerable amount of time in Birmingham over the years. 32 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: You certainly more so than I. You had a very 33 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: steady gig there for a long time and worked in 34 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: local radio and traveled up and down the road back 35 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: and forth, and you've seen more of it than I have. 36 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: I've had some great concert experiences and things like that 37 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: over the years. Birmingham and it's you know, it's not 38 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: what it used to be. It is a relatively dangerous 39 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: place to a certain degree. I'll throw a number out 40 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: to you. It's essentially they have a homicide rate that 41 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: came in last year. It's seven in ten thousand, people. 42 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: For every ten thousand people, there are seven homicides. 43 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: I didn't realize it was that high. 44 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: It's pretty dog on high. It's at one point in time, 45 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: over the last decade it was per capita. It had 46 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: become one of the most violent cities in America. And 47 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: it's a real shame. It's got a lot of beauty 48 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: to it. I think about people don't think about mountains 49 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: in Alabama, but it's ringed by, you know, this beautiful 50 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: little series of ridges. Birmingham itself kind of sits down 51 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: in a bowl and it's surrounded. You know. When I 52 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: was a kid, one of the things I remember traveling 53 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: down I twenty and we'd go through Birmingham. I couldn't 54 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: see Birmingham because it was considered to be the Pittsburgh 55 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: of the South. That's where steel was manufactured, and you 56 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: couldn't see it, and so it had this kind of 57 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: black cloud that floated over it. But there was a 58 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: lot of money, you know, people like Union, Carbid and 59 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: US Steel were there, and of course they all left 60 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: after a period of time. The sky is cleared up, 61 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: but what was left behind were a lot of poor people. 62 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: A lot of poor people, you know, Joe. As we 63 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: were looking at this topic. You know, it's interesting how 64 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: you think of Birmingham versus how I do, And it 65 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: really comes down to a background of what we do 66 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: for a living, what we've done. 67 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: Prior to this. My world has always been on the radio, 68 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: and depending on what format you know, it's it's just 69 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 2: crazy how you look at a market. You break it 70 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: down economically, and we're your listener pockets and things like that. 71 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: You know by zip codes and by addresses, and you 72 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: learn a lot about a city's economics and basically you 73 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 2: learn the nitty gritty of a city to know where 74 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 2: you need to do your promoting in your marketing, and 75 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: Birmingham is one of those places that has such an 76 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 2: incredible history that it defies a lot of the normal 77 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 2: things that you do when you try to figure out 78 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 2: where to market. You actually have to consider every part 79 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: of the city and then beyond that because in the 80 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 2: Birmingham metro area you have one of the fastest growing 81 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: cities in the nation in Hoover, Alabama, that just kind 82 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 2: of blurs in with Birmingham. So it's a wonderful place, 83 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: really interesting. I had a lot of fun there. I 84 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 2: had a lot of a lot of my career was 85 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: spent on the air in Birmingham, Alabama. Birmingham and Raleigh 86 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 2: are very I love both of them. And anyway, when 87 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 2: I saw this number, Damian McDaniel, is he a mass 88 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: killer or a serial killer? 89 00:05:59,279 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: Joe? 90 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 2: We've got fourteen people dead in fourteen months, and all 91 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: I could think of is, why is this not a 92 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: national story being screamed by you know, every crime talk 93 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: show person there is. We haven't talked about it, but 94 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: our show is body Bags, and we have mentioned this 95 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: a couple of times to one another. As a matter 96 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,799 Speaker 2: of fact, when we first talked about it, it wasn't fourteen. 97 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: I think it was eleven. 98 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it was. And now he's there have been 99 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: more deaths attributed, you know, to him, and well, I 100 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: have to say, I have to say this very plainly. 101 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: You asked me about serial killer versus a mass killer 102 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: or a mass killing. There are elements here I think 103 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: that would define him as potentially both. That's what makes 104 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: this kind of rare. I think that this would be 105 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: like with the Behavioral Sciences Unit at the FBI, this 106 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: would certainly these cases that are laid at his feet 107 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: or have been laid and he's only been charged, he 108 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: has not been convicted at this point. The Behavioral Sciences Unit, 109 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: they would consider this to be an outlier. This is 110 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: something somebody that they would want to study and the 111 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: events surrounding this, because I don't know, I don't know 112 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: how a person like this is produced. That when you 113 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: start off at such an intense level like this and 114 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: you continue to literally blast your way through the city's 115 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:47,239 Speaker 1: population at these various spots, and they happened on different dates, 116 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, most of the time with I was you know, 117 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: as you know, we were just up in Long Island 118 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: at the Hamptons who done it, And we got into 119 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: a discussion up there about Lisk with others around us. 120 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: And you know, there have been a lot of cases 121 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: now that have been laid it at rex Huerman's feed 122 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: as well, and they say that there could be more. 123 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: I'm hearing that from locals up there, and I think 124 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people concur with that. Those crimes were 125 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: committed over a protracted period of time and they were 126 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: in fact serialized. So if you just you know, you 127 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: think about you know, like series TV, you know the 128 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: way it used to be where you get one episode 129 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: per week. Okay, that's a series of events, all right. 130 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,719 Speaker 1: Then you have a mass event where someone walks in 131 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: and they kill multiple people, and there's generally not a 132 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: number applied to that other than the way we've always 133 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: defined it in my world, not not behavioral scientists, but 134 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: the way we've always defined it in my world has 135 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: been how much strain can your system handle relative to 136 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: triaging out injured individuals and then handling the number of 137 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: dead that you have at a scene that are physically 138 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: dead at the scene than those that die at the hospital, 139 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: and can your facilities handle all of these deaths? And 140 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: that's kind of how we measure it. It's a bit 141 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: different than maybe the rest of the world looks at it. 142 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: And from a system standpoint, when I look at this, 143 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: it would be a strain, you know, because look, if 144 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: you're in some small little town and you have three 145 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: people that are killed, all right, and say you've got 146 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: a population of twelve hundred folks, all right, you got 147 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: three people killed at one time. That's going to strain, 148 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: that's going to tax your resources incredibly. People don't think 149 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: about that. You just think, well, we got three three 150 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: people that have been killed. How big of a lift, 151 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: it is, well, it's a huge lift. When everybody that 152 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,719 Speaker 1: works that that have critical positions there, many of them 153 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: are volunteer individuals, okay. And then if you're isolated, how 154 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: are you going to get the bodies to a morgue, 155 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: how are you going to get the samples to the 156 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: crime lab. All these things come into play and you 157 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: don't think about it. That's the reason people study things 158 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: like emergency management. You know, there is a post mortem 159 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: section within emergency management. But back to the idea of 160 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: this being a serialized event most of the time. When 161 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: we were talking about up in Long Island, they've got 162 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: another guy up there that they'd like for at least 163 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: two homicides, but based upon the template that has been 164 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: put forward traditionally for serial killers, he wouldn't qualify. Generally 165 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: it's three or more, okay, But Dave, this guy takes 166 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: the cake in Birmingham as far as I'm concerned, because 167 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: he he has that is in fact gone well above 168 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: double digits here. And when you begin to think about 169 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: also the the number of injured, and we don't know 170 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: what that means when they say injured, because you can 171 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: have look, you can be injured and you can be 172 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: injured because of a ricochet off of an asshalt surface 173 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: and maybe a fragment of bullet or a fragment of 174 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: asshalt goes into your leg. Well you're injured. But you 175 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: can also be injured by taking around to your to 176 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: your mid line of your abdomen and severing your spinal cord. 177 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: And then you're yeah, yeah, it is. 178 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: It's a huge it's a huge gulf. And I'm sorry, no, no, no, 179 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: And so you're just you're looking at that and and 180 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: let me tell you something else. And this is kind 181 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: of interesting. People don't think about this. If you have someone, 182 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: for instance, that is shot in one of these events 183 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: and they're put on a vent, and I see you somewhere, 184 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: and I've worked cases like this, Dave. They're put on 185 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: a vent, and I don't care if it's two decades 186 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: to go by, if it's three decades to go by, 187 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: and they survive all that time, maybe they're in a 188 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: nursing facility. When they die, their manner of death is 189 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: ruled as a homicide because you it's you know, it's 190 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: the old one of a nail, you know, a horse 191 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: shoe was lost. It's like if those if his path 192 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: had not crossed that individual's path that night, he had 193 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: not fired that weapon striking that individual, would the person 194 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: otherwise have been injured like this, okay, And there's no 195 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: way to say any otherwise, you know that would not 196 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: have happened. So the responsibility for the injuries, and if 197 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: they die eventually, that goes on his account as well. 198 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: Dave, that's such an interesting thing. The first time I 199 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 2: heard that explain to me, it makes perfectly good sense. 200 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: It's just you can die many years later and the guy, 201 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 2: he might already be dead, but you know it's still 202 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: a murder and he's responsible. I want to get to 203 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 2: one thing very quickly because when this story was first 204 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 2: brought to me, and I actually checked my email on 205 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 2: this just a few minutes ago, it was after the 206 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: first murders or the first murderer of a firefighter, because 207 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: it happened in July of twenty twenty three. Joe and 208 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 2: I remember the email came in and we were in 209 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: a period with the show where we had a little 210 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 2: bit of time to chill it with summertime and looking 211 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: over some of the stories. This one came across my 212 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: desk and it was when two firefighters on July twelfth 213 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, Jordan Melton and Jamal Jones. They 214 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 2: were doing their routine maintenance okay at Station nine, which 215 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: is twenty seventh Street North in Norwood, which is an 216 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 2: area of Birmingham, and while they were working, a man 217 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 2: they believe is Damian McDaniel, who we're actually talking about today, 218 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: entered the station through an open bay door that they 219 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 2: would leave this door open. Talk about a community. They 220 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: left this door to the fire station open, Joe, because 221 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 2: they lived in an area that had a number of 222 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 2: elderly citizens, not always in the great health, and they 223 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: wanted them to have a place to go to have 224 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: their blood sugar check, to have their pulse, their heart rate, 225 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: things like that. And every day people would come by 226 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 2: and it saved them a trip to the doctor or 227 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 2: an ambulance ride to the hospital or they just the 228 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: things we do not think about that fire rescue people 229 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 2: do on a daily basis really does restore your faith 230 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 2: in mankind. 231 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: And you know how I feel about firefighters. I've made 232 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: this perfectly clear. And let me say this again. Yeah, cops, 233 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: I get you know. You can say and that make 234 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: a big deal out of community policing and all these 235 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: sorts of things. Firefighters have been doing community work for 236 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: years and years, and that's one of the most attractive 237 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: things about the fire service is that they actually have 238 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: a house that is in the neighborhood. They refer to 239 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: it as the firehouse. Now, I'm not saying that they've 240 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: got a soup kitchen there, but if you're coming in 241 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: there and you're distressed there it's what's referred to as 242 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: a helping profession. And the fact that these two guys 243 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: had the bay doors open. And the one thing about 244 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: firefighters is I'm reminded of a fire station I used 245 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: to go to in Atlanta every now and then, and 246 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: I'd become friends the scroup of firefighters, and I'd go 247 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: by and eat some of the best food in the world, 248 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: by the way, and they made a big deal out 249 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: of cooking. The only thing is you either had to 250 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: bring something or you had to clean up afterwards, and 251 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: so I always volunteer to clean up. I didn't care 252 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: because food was so good. But you can come and go. 253 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: Did you let me throw out? Another interesting point about 254 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: firefighters dave. In most states, if you kill a firefighter 255 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: while they are on duty. Did you know that that's 256 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: an automatic capital offense. 257 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 2: No, didn't know yet, Glad it is. 258 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's and in some states, if you kill a 259 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: teacher while they are at work, it's an automatic capital offense. So, 260 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: you know, he's rolled up on both of these guys, 261 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: who I can only imagine. You know, the thing that 262 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: they do. They love to wash those trucks. They love 263 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: to roll hoses. That's one of the things that they do. 264 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: They're pulling preventative maintenance. They got there. They're not walking 265 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: around with weapons on their on their hips. You know, 266 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: they're in there cleaning and keeping the bay clean and 267 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: keeping their keeping their units clean and all that sort 268 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: of thing. And this wild man walks in and for 269 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: no reason whatsoever, shoots both of these guys. It's it's 270 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: inexplicable day. 271 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: He walks through the open bay door and opens fire. 272 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 2: They had no reason to suspect that that was going 273 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: to happen on that day. And the thing that gets 274 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 2: you really right in the heart is that Jordan Melton. 275 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 2: You know, he had only been on the job a year. 276 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 2: He was still he had just graduated from the recruit academy. 277 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 2: This is something that he was doing because he had 278 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 2: had passion for it and wanted to do it. And 279 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 2: he's still a rookie. He'd been with Birmingham Fire and 280 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 2: Rescue just about a year in time to you know, 281 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,959 Speaker 2: go through the academy. I mean, it boggles my mind. 282 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: He probably after a year, he'd probably just gotten off probation. 283 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 2: Are yes, and five days, five days after Damien McDaniel 284 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 2: allegedly walked into the bay for we still don't have 285 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 2: a reason, Joe and he died. Jordan died five days 286 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 2: Jordan Melton died five days after the shooting. Jamal Jones 287 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 2: was injured. But I just it still crushes your soul 288 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 2: to a degree when you think of guys who start 289 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: their day thinking of what they can do to help, 290 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 2: what they can do to make the world a better place, 291 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: and for no reason somebody comes in and opens fire. 292 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and looking at this case and cases in their totality, 293 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: now we know that with the injuries and subsequent death 294 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: of this young firefighter, this was only the beginning of 295 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: a reign of terror that dropped on the city of Burning. 296 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:54,239 Speaker 1: Now fourteen dead and fourteen months Dave, Yeah, and I 297 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: have to say that we're going to talk about this more. 298 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: It's it's rather complex because we've got two real seminal 299 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: events here that occurred on separate nights. There are other 300 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: people that have been injured along the way, and looking 301 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: at it from an investigative perspective, I'm thinking what in 302 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: the world was going through the investigator's minds, because you know, 303 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: Birmingham it's I guess what would you classified as? Would 304 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,719 Speaker 1: you say that it's kind of a mid size city 305 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: relative population. You think about the highway and. 306 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: The metro area, and you didn't get the the metro 307 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 2: is you know, I guess a million people, and then 308 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 2: you include the what we just called the TSA, the 309 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 2: total surveyed area when you get into radio ratings, and 310 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 2: you know, I write it beyond that. But yeah, I mean, 311 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 2: you're talking about a metropolitan area that probably is in 312 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 2: the fifty eight in the country, you know, fifty to 313 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: fifty five to sixty some were ranking in there. Just 314 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: your mid size metropol an area with all the things 315 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 2: you'd expect. We've got legendary Birmingham Barons, you know, and 316 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 2: they play at the legendary rick Wood Field, which has 317 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: been redone. There's so many things that have taken place 318 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: in Birmingham. The historical value of the city alone, you 319 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 2: could do. I encourage Field to study and look at 320 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 2: the letter written by Martin Luther King Junior from the 321 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 2: Birmingham Jail and look at all that history that's living 322 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 2: and breathing, and half the people that live there don't 323 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 2: know it because they don't. And that's what burns me, 324 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 2: because it's a it is a wonderful, beautiful place. And 325 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 2: you know, anyway we can, we can do our our 326 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: chamber of commerce, you know, commercial later. But I wanted 327 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 2: to get to what it's like, Joe. What and I 328 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 2: don't mean that, not like Pourian interest, but what is 329 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 2: it like from your perspective of a mass killing situation? 330 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 2: And something did strike me. The reason we don't usually 331 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 2: have more than one mass killing by the same person 332 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 2: is because they usually kill them or they are killed 333 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 2: or they are killed. 334 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and every now and then, every now and then 335 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: they will be subdued by the police, they'll flee and 336 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: sometimes the police catch them. But you know, many times 337 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: with those individuals, you you learn later that they've got 338 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: some kind of weird psychopathology that's going on, and they've 339 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: been quote unquote troubled and all this sort of thing. 340 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: They weren't in their right mind, Dave. The term paid 341 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: hitman has come up in the narrative, and so that 342 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: makes this all the more chilling. You know, when I 343 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: think paid hitman, I'm thinking about the movie Iceman. The 344 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: Iceman came out a few years ago with Michael Shannon is. Yeah, 345 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: it's based on a true story, and this guy killed 346 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: tons of people, but was living a normal life, was 347 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: a great father, They went to church, you know, the 348 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: whole nine yards. This is this is something. This is 349 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: a new creature that we're seeing here because it's so 350 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: so horrible relative to the idea. Here's what it gets me. 351 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: It's like you develop a thirst for it almost, it 352 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: would seem, or maybe your thirst is money. How much 353 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: money are you paid to take another person's life individually? 354 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: How much more so if you go in and kill 355 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: multiple people and is your target one person within a 356 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: mass grouping and you're just going to take everybody else out. 357 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: I can tell you from a forensics perspective, based upon 358 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: the mass shootings that I've worked over the years, which 359 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: there have been a few, it's something that you don't 360 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: get passed easily. I think that one of the most 361 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: difficult things is the fact that you're standing among the dead, 362 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: and that sounds kind of odd. It's not like standing 363 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: among the dead and the morgue, you know, where you've 364 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: got bodies that are on stainless steel tables they're about 365 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: to be autopsy he or you walk into the cooler 366 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: and there's bodies on gurnies. That's different. You're talking about 367 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 1: walking into a parking lot and there are dead people 368 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: to your left and to your right, or there there 369 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: is like massive pools of blood that have been left 370 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: behind by those that have been evacuated and they're going 371 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: to eventually die. You've got people that are still there 372 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: on seen and it's like it's like mass chaos when 373 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: you roll up. You really have to be able to 374 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: find that place in your mind and in your heart 375 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: where and I know this sounds real new ag. I 376 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: don't know how else to put it, where you can 377 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: kind of center yourself, where you can block out everything 378 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: because there's a lot of static because people people freak out. 379 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: Many people do that have become witnesses, as I think 380 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: they have a right to. You know, how else would 381 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: you react? I know how I would react, but you know, 382 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: you want to be as an investigator when you roll 383 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: up on one of these things, you want to be 384 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: that kind of calm in the storm, because your job 385 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: involves examining every bit of evidence that's there. One of 386 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: the biggest nightmares, particularly at night, I always because I 387 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: screwed up so many times. I always tell my students 388 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: is that when you're walking about in the dark and 389 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: maybe you pass over some of the flashlight and you 390 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: didn't notice it, and you hear a metallic tink that 391 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: kind of travels across the concrete or the asphalt, and 392 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: you just realize you kicked the shell casing that you 393 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: didn't see, or you hear something at the runch under 394 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: and the crunch on your foot. It's a nightmare because 395 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: you don't always see everything in a poorly lit area. 396 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: And the mass shootings that we're talking about actually took place. 397 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: You know at one place is like an illegal an 398 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: illegal club that was dispensing alcohol, and another place is 399 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: a legitimate place that was like in a strip mall right. 400 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: You have a huge group of people kind of. 401 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 2: Gathered out there, and you know, I'm so glad you 402 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 2: started this up. I mentioning that the term hit man 403 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 2: has been thrown around, you know, getting paid to kill somebody. 404 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 2: And I was looking over kind of a timeline, but 405 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: before we did this very quickly, I'm going to throw 406 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 2: something out there to you. When we're talking about mass 407 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: casualty event A lot of times, you know, body bags, 408 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 2: we focus on crime, but you know there are mass 409 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 2: casualty events that do not include guns and Ammo and 410 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 2: anybody doing anything. I was in once and when you 411 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 2: were describing the chaos unseen in a natural disaster. A 412 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 2: tornado hits a building and you've got the dead, the dying, 413 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 2: the wounded. I mean, it's a crazy scene, and you're 414 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,479 Speaker 2: not in fear of somebody running around with a gun. 415 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 2: It's crazy enough in that and it just hit me 416 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: what it must be like for those in a scene 417 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,239 Speaker 2: where you've got that mat that shooter. You know, it 418 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: wasn't a natural disaster, It wasn't something that just happened. 419 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 2: You know, it was somebody who actually grabbed a gun 420 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: and went into Trendsetter's nightclub and opened fire. But he 421 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 2: got warmed up. You know, we got in July of 422 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, going into a fire station and allegedly 423 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 2: killing one wounding another. Then five and a half six 424 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 2: months later, January twenty twenty four, Mia and Nixon or 425 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 2: Nickerson is actually wounded at her Mia Nixon is wounded 426 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 2: at her house and dies in her driveway. She's a 427 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: twenty one year old woman. Now McDaniel is tied to 428 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 2: that murder. Go a couple of months later and we're 429 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: at a UPS facility, Joe, April twenty twenty four. Okay, 430 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 2: so now it's the timeline's getting tighter, you know. July 431 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, January twenty twenty four. Now April twenty 432 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 2: twenty four, and a guy, Anthony Love Junior gets off work. 433 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 2: He's going through the parking lot and he gets shot 434 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 2: and killed right there on his way leaving work. Now 435 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: a couple of months later, it's one year after the 436 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 2: shooting at the fire station. July twenty twenty four. You're 437 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 2: at Trendsetters in Birmingham. It's just after eleven o'clock on 438 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,959 Speaker 2: July three pm. On July thirteenth, officers respond to the 439 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 2: call multiple shots fired. Joe, you've heard that call go out? Yeah, 440 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 2: you know, the first responders go and you know, chances 441 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: are You're going to be in the thick of that 442 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 2: at some point soon. 443 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. And the way that it works most of tom 444 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: if you're an Emmy investigator or corner investigator, you're sitting 445 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: there and you have your radio on and you're on 446 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: the main channel. Are on there as a headquarters dispatch. 447 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: This is what it was in Atlanta, and you'll hear 448 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 1: a call that will come up, and this would have 449 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: been a call that would have gone out to the 450 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,239 Speaker 1: every zone of precinct in the city, because you've got 451 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: multiple precincts. Most of the precincts have their own radio channel, 452 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 1: but they would have sent this thing out broadly. Because 453 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: if you've got a what turns out to be a 454 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: mass shooting and these things start to trickle in your ear, 455 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: all of a sudden tunes into this and you can 456 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: hear you can actually hear the voices changed on the radio. 457 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: It's kind of chilling. The voices change, the tenor of 458 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: the voices changed. You can tell that there's an urgency 459 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: because the first thing they're trying to do is secure 460 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: the scene relative to is there still an active shooter. 461 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: And then you've got people in the background that are 462 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: screaming and pain. And you've got people that were not 463 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: shot that are trying to render aid and they're screaming 464 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: as well because they don't know what the environment is safe. 465 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: And then people that are not used to being around 466 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: dead bodies are suddenly staring down at maybe a person 467 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: that was standing there with a drink in their hand 468 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: one moment and the next thing you know, they're bleeding 469 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: out on the ground next to you, and they eventually 470 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: die and you watch them die. So, yeah, it's a 471 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: matter chaos and what you're listening for. My radio number 472 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: in Atlanta used to actually be Emmy thirteen. What a 473 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: number right? And I would hear them call out. They 474 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: would say can you roll the meme? And I knew 475 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: that if I had heard that preceded by that there 476 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: had been a mass shooting event, I knew that I 477 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: was going to have to contact our affiliate drivers and say, listen, 478 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: you guys need to be in a bullpen warming up 479 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: because we're going to have more than We're going to 480 00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: have a need for more than one vehicle to train 481 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: and support the remains that we're going to have out there. 482 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: And so you're thinking and the time to think about 483 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: this and planet is not when it happens. You have 484 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: to be exercised and prepared before this happens, and you 485 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: don't want to think that it is, but it always does, 486 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: and it is, and it's still chaos when you roll 487 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: up out there. Because this is the thing about it 488 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: is that an event like this, as disgusting as it 489 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: is to think about, attract spectators and there's no way 490 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: to keep them out. And you say, well, what, yeah, 491 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah. I've actually been on scenes Dave at 492 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning where I've had mothers standing 493 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: outside the tape holding a newborn or six month old 494 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: on their hip, laughing and carrying on with other new 495 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: mothers standing outside the tape watching everything that we do. 496 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: I've seen I've actually seen little kids. It's playing in 497 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: the dirt outside of tape where we've had shootings and 498 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: the kids are just playing. It's you know, it's normalized. 499 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: And so it's an absolutely horrible thing to bear witness 500 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: to because I'm thinking, you know, as rough as my 501 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: childhood was, I was never exposed to anything like this, 502 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,479 Speaker 1: And you know, how is this going to impact How 503 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: does it impact an entire neighborhood? When you know that 504 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: this is happening out there and this is not something 505 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: that happens every day. 506 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: Right now, Joe, something that catches my attention on this one. Now, 507 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: we kind of broke it down as to how we 508 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 2: got to this point a year after the very first 509 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 2: shooting involving Damien McDaniel, but the third. But in this 510 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 2: particular case, a birthday party or something was going on 511 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 2: inside the club, trendsetters and a disagreement, scuttle whatever you 512 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 2: want to call it. Something happened inside that club, and 513 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 2: the shooting was done from the outside. They officers found 514 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 2: a thirty nine year old man on the street or 515 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 2: Stevie McGee I think it was his name. Anyway, they 516 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 2: find him or her is Steve. I don't know if 517 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: Stevie's a man or a woman. I apologize for that anyway, 518 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 2: thirty nine year old is found on the sidewalk outside 519 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 2: the club and when they it pronounced dead, they go 520 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 2: inside the club and they find more dead bodies. Damian 521 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 2: mcg is still Damien McDaniel is still in the middle 522 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 2: of this. Now, there's other people involved in the shooting 523 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 2: as well, but Damien McDaniel, how does he go from 524 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 2: being the suspect for killing at the fire department and 525 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 2: then on the scene of a twenty one year old 526 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 2: woman at her house, and then a ups driver and 527 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: now a mass casualty event at a nightclub drive by shooting, 528 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 2: picking off whoever happens. If you're not going to be 529 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 2: able to pick people to shoot when you're out on 530 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 2: the street, Joe shooting into a building, it's just it'shooting 531 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 2: whoever you can. 532 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a that's what makes this particularly evil 533 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: in my estimation, at least. 534 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 2: I'm with you. That's what I was trying to figure out. 535 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 2: I mean, not like any murder is better than another. 536 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: But no, no, but you have to contextualize it. 537 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're tying to be able to take to shoot 538 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 2: into a building with a bunch of people at a 539 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 2: birthday party. 540 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. And when you say birthday party, you're 541 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: going to have all manner of people that are there. 542 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: You might have people that I don't know that like 543 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: to drink and party, and you might have other people 544 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: there that just want to come by, and a well 545 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: wisher you know that just says I'm going to slide 546 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: by tonight and just tell my man, you know, happy Birthday, 547 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: and to randomize it like this. One of the things 548 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: you're looking at as well is if the shooting starts 549 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: outside and it's passing through the wall or through the door, 550 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: this is going to calm implicate the forensics in many ways. 551 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: Did you know that when if you've got someone in 552 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: is standing like immediately adjacent to what we call an 553 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: intermediary target, and that round passes through that wall, whether 554 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: it's a press board or if it's some kind of 555 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: external siding, it goes through insulation, then it passes through 556 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: dry wall. A lot of that stuff that's in the 557 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: wall depends upon where the individual is relative to where 558 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: the bullet actually enters the room. The physical space is 559 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: carrying a lot of that stuff with it. First off, 560 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: the bullet's going to be deformed, so it's going to 561 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: be real hard to get rifling off the bullet, and 562 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: a lot of that other stuff fragments and becomes almost 563 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 1: like shrapnel. I've seen many cases where I've seen bits 564 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: of particle board buried into people's bodies, where there has 565 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: been multiple rounds that have been popped off, And you'll 566 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,479 Speaker 1: see this over and over again, and so it makes 567 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: us even more complex then to pull the trajectories that 568 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: you're going to have to try to understand. Like if 569 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: we're pulling trajectories at a scene and you have an 570 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: external shooter. You've got a shooter that is outside of 571 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: the building and they're firing a weapon into that building. 572 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 1: We used to use trajectory rods, but now which are 573 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: these static rods that you can place through a hole 574 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: and I'll give you an idea of directionality of the bullet, 575 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: the pitch of the bullet. Did it move from right 576 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: to left, left to right, that sort of thing. But 577 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: now we use lasers, and so you'll see these kind 578 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: of colored lasers too. Most common are generally green and red. 579 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: And if you can pass those through a defect in 580 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: the wall, you can track that back to the point 581 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: of origin where the individual was shooting from perhaps, and 582 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: then that trajectory line will pass through where the person 583 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: was physically standing or stooped when they were shot. Now 584 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 1: they might not they're obviously if they were standing, they're 585 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: not going to be in the same position. But it'll 586 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: give you an idea forensically as to the position of 587 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: the individual when they were when the bullet struck them. Initially, 588 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: you know where it marries up with that person's body. Now, 589 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: if they're shot and they run away, it's not going 590 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 1: to be it's not going to provide as much actual information. 591 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: But if they drop where they were shot, you can say, okay, well, 592 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: based upon this line of trajectory and get idea, this 593 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: individual's positioned in this location when the shooting started, and 594 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: where is the round anatomically in the body. Was it 595 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 1: like an immediate death where they're struck in the mid chest, 596 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: where they're struck in the head, they struck in the 597 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: lower back where maybe they didn't die immediately they just 598 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: laid their blood out, or with somebody shot here and 599 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: they were like shot in the shoulder and then they 600 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: went for cover after that. It gets very very complex, 601 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,320 Speaker 1: and that's why scenes like this day they take hours 602 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: upon hours to work. You know, you don't think because 603 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 1: for everybody that is there, Okay, just let me break 604 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: this down for you and our friends, for everybody that 605 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: is there, think of it this way. Just like everybody 606 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: has their own name, each one of these bodies is 607 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: an individual case. Okay, all right, So this isn't just 608 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: one case. If you've got multiple individuals that are shot 609 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: in one location. Yeah, you got same address. But for 610 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: every person that is either wounded or killed, they have 611 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: an individual case number that is placed with them. Well 612 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: why is that important, Well, it's important. For one, it 613 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: helps us identify that specific individual and we will work 614 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: that case. Let's just say it's case number twenty five 615 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: zero zero zero one, first case of the year. Well, 616 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 1: lying next to them a zero zero zero two and 617 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: then zero zero zero three. So these are separately jacketed 618 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: and so you work that case individually, and it's going 619 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: to take more than one of you to do this. 620 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: Most of the time, with a mass shooting, you have 621 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: to break it down into teams. Ideally, and we did 622 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: this with a bucket shooting in Atlanta all those years ago. 623 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: We had three person teams that went in and worked 624 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: each body. So you'd have an em investigator, homicide detective, 625 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: and a forensic tech. Said, one person examining the body, 626 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: one person doing the periphery of the body, and then 627 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 1: you had another person documenting the body. And that's for 628 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: every it's that complex. And then you'll have a lead 629 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: investigator with the police department that will have to combine 630 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 1: all of these jackets. Okay of information each one of 631 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: these case files with an individual case number. It gets 632 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: so very complex. The complexity continues on when these people 633 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: are the deceased, at least eventually wind up wind up 634 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: at the morgue, because you handle each one of these 635 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: bodies individually and you work your way through it, and 636 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: it can be a nightmare at the morgue, say the 637 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,399 Speaker 1: next day where you have a mass shooting. I've been 638 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: in a morgue where we've had mass shootings before where 639 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: we had seven people that were all killed in one event. Well, 640 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: they're lined up. You still have other cases that you 641 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: have to do, but these bodies are probably going to 642 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: take the numbers at the head of the line. Each 643 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 1: body has to be x rayed, each one of their 644 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,720 Speaker 1: injuries has to be appreciated, their clothing has to be collected, 645 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 1: look for trace evidence, everything that is involved, and so 646 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: it's stacked. As you can imagine, it's like trying to 647 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: lane land planes and stormy weather and you're working each 648 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 1: individual case and you have to make sure that you 649 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: have the same day, that you have the same precision 650 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: on each one of these cases as you would if 651 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: it was a single homicide that you happened to catch 652 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: that day and that's the only homicide you had, so 653 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: and you get tired. I mean, it is physically draining 654 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: to have to do these, so you really have to 655 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: be on your p's and q's working your way through it. 656 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: What's fascinating about this is with this perpetrator, Dave, he 657 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 1: has literally been the trigger mechanism, literally and figuratively for 658 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: multiple of these events. Think about that, all of our friends, 659 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: think about that. For every time one of these rounds 660 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,919 Speaker 1: slammed into one of our fellow citizens. A case number 661 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: is generated, forensics are generated, a case has started, a 662 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 1: case is investigated, a subject is charged, A subject will 663 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 1: eventually go to court, and we'll have a name. We'll 664 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: have a name for that individual as they stand before 665 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: the court and answer for what they have done. Dave, 666 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: you just reminded me of something that is again unique 667 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: to this case. I think. I think it's unique in 668 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 1: the sense of the numbers that we're talking about. 669 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 2: Shocking is what it actually is. 670 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, I guess, I guess. Yeah, shocking is probably 671 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: more active. 672 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 2: I didn't think that was possible anymore. But what you 673 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,359 Speaker 2: were talking about in document, I'm not the only person 674 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 2: who's going to say this show just didn't occur to 675 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 2: me what had to be generated during the course of 676 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 2: investigating a mass shooting, you know, where you're dealing with 677 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,840 Speaker 2: multiple people wounded but are injured and dead in the 678 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 2: case of trendsetters in Birmingham, after the scene, you've got 679 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 2: you know, you have the dead on the floor and 680 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 2: what have you got the investigation going on, but and 681 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 2: there were people they were triaging there wounded individuals. Eleven 682 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 2: people that night went to UAB, which is a hospital 683 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 2: in Birmingham, University of Alabama, Birmingham, and they eleven people 684 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 2: went to the hospital with injuries afterwards that didn't go 685 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 2: through the police or anybody else at the scene. They 686 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 2: came on their own. And of those eleven victims, one 687 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,720 Speaker 2: of those, a twenty four year old man, actually died 688 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 2: of his injuries at UAB after all of this had 689 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 2: gone on. 690 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: That's yeah, it really is the volume, the volume that 691 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: you're talking about. You talk about total chaos because when 692 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: you have these individuals. First off, if you're UAB, which 693 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: is arguably I guess the largest trauma center maybe in 694 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 1: the state of Alabama, I would imagine it's a massive 695 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,400 Speaker 1: teaching hospital. By the way, one of the finest in 696 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 1: the country. It's got a long standing history. You've got 697 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 1: these other eleven that have rolled in now knowing that 698 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: UAB is the trauma center to go to those individuals 699 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 1: that would have been tree edged at the scene and 700 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: thrown into ambulances and taken quickly to the hospital. They're 701 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,760 Speaker 1: already filling up all the bays. Just think about everybody 702 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,399 Speaker 1: in the sound of my voice right now. Just think 703 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: about what it's like if you've ever had to go 704 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: to emergency room on a busy night, and multiply that 705 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: by a factor of about one hundred. If you've got, 706 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: like I don't know, if you think that you've got 707 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 1: an uttep tummy and you decide to go to the 708 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 1: emergency room and you roll in there and you're writhing 709 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,759 Speaker 1: in pain on a gurney, you're going to have taken 710 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,359 Speaker 1: number and wait. That's what it comes down to. And 711 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: they might not get to you for hours upon hours 712 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: upon hours. As a matter of fact, they might say, look, 713 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: you're going to be better served by getting in your 714 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: car and going somewhere else because everything is going to 715 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: be thrown Because you've got people that have got gaping 716 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: defects in their body that are losing blood. You've got 717 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: people that have fractured bones. Oh, by the way, not 718 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: to mention, you've got people that got perforated organs, so 719 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 1: they're having to be evaluated and get them up to 720 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 1: a surgical suite. And then they've got to call in 721 00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,360 Speaker 1: all the trauma surgeons and all of the residents that 722 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 1: work for the trauma surgeons. Just to hand. It is 723 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,920 Speaker 1: a war zone at this point time. Oh and by 724 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,880 Speaker 1: the way, we've got eleven more people from the trend 725 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: Centers event that happened to come in what they refer 726 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: to as ambulatory They would walk in on their own 727 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: or maybe a friend drug them in. You're not bringing 728 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: them in by ambulance, so you're stacking. You're stacking more 729 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,440 Speaker 1: on top. So it's a real stressor on the entire system. 730 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 2: Something I can imagine. 731 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: They don't have more people that have died. It's kind 732 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: of amazing, Dave. 733 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,000 Speaker 2: You know, I've just shocked. I did not know what 734 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 2: all went into And now I'm now taking this a 735 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 2: little bit further on, and I'm thinking from a professional standpoint, Joe, 736 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 2: a lot of the men and women working in law 737 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 2: enforcement in the Medical Examiner's office seeing the number of 738 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 2: deaths like this, and you know, we have the trendsetters event, 739 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,319 Speaker 2: and then you've got the people coming in after. But 740 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 2: you know, right on the heels of that Joe there 741 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 2: there were another group of murders that took place that 742 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 2: are going to be attributed to Damian McDaniel and others, 743 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,239 Speaker 2: but in particular, on September the nineteenth, twenty twenty four, 744 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:14,120 Speaker 2: a woman Deanentrey Deontrante to Nae Brown. They say she 745 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 2: was an innocent bystander in what amounted to a shooting 746 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 2: that took place outside or inside the six h four 747 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 2: bar and lounge. It was just this is a one off, 748 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,400 Speaker 2: and boy, I feel like I'm I'm really being dismissive 749 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,359 Speaker 2: and I'm not trying to point out what was going 750 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 2: on because again, these are all attributed to the same 751 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 2: person now, and by the way, there are also other 752 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 2: people that are joining McDaniel on different events of these. 753 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,640 Speaker 2: And on September nineteenth, you've got ms Brown. On September 754 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 2: twenty first, two days after that murder outside of the 755 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:56,320 Speaker 2: Hush Lounge, that another mass shooting event. You've got four 756 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 2: killed and seventeen others injured. This is a bar in 757 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 2: the Five Points area of Birmingham. This is an area 758 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 2: where there's a lot of foot traffic. It's a very 759 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,320 Speaker 2: busy place, especially at night. It is a happening place. 760 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,960 Speaker 2: And to have a mass casualty event, a mass shooting 761 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 2: event there Joe on the heels of what they've already seen. 762 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,400 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking, if you're working in law enforcement and 763 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 2: going on these calls, do y'all talk amongst yourselves with 764 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,959 Speaker 2: other professionals and discuss what's going on and say, what's 765 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 2: happening here? 766 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's really easy to get caught up in 767 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 1: all the peripheral stuff that goes along, but you have 768 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,959 Speaker 1: to draw your focus back to what's the most important thing, 769 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: and that is try to understand who are what you're 770 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: dealing with here are you? Have these people been targeted 771 00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 1: because they're attending They're a member of some group, you know, 772 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,479 Speaker 1: which doesn't seem likely because it seems on its face 773 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,479 Speaker 1: it seems rather randomized. You've got people that are out 774 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: in the evening, but there are a lot of people 775 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,640 Speaker 1: that are out in the evening. It seems to me 776 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,440 Speaker 1: that this is it has a bit of organization to 777 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:19,920 Speaker 1: it because if we go back to this premise that 778 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 1: he has been hired as a hitman, if he goes 779 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,839 Speaker 1: in and creates as much chaos as he possibly can, 780 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 1: it sounds like something I have a movie. He can 781 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 1: target the one person that maybe he's being paid to 782 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,719 Speaker 1: kill allegedly and creates a tremendous amount of chaos while 783 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: they're doing it. The target doesn't get away, and he 784 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,719 Speaker 1: can blend in while he's doing it. Because with chaos, 785 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: it's amazing. When you go to take statements from people 786 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,000 Speaker 1: at events like this, or I hate to say events 787 00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: incidents like this, you'll get multiple descriptions of a perpetrator. 788 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,359 Speaker 1: They won't all be the same. And the thing about 789 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,120 Speaker 1: it is people are seeing it from different perspectives. Some 790 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,920 Speaker 1: people are hearing things and they're not seeing anything, and 791 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,560 Speaker 1: hearing sometimes can be just as good as seeing. If 792 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,240 Speaker 1: you've got your head down and your face is buried, 793 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: your eyes are not turned, you're trying to avert, but 794 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: you hear them say something, maybe you pick up on 795 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,840 Speaker 1: a certain word that they might use, some kind of 796 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,759 Speaker 1: command that they might use, or if you're laying there 797 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,480 Speaker 1: in the dirt and your face down you hear them 798 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,560 Speaker 1: say they might call out somebody's name specifically, and that 799 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,920 Speaker 1: gives you an indication of who the target was. Because 800 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,200 Speaker 1: in a big group like this, how are you going 801 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,719 Speaker 1: to know who's there? And are you there to specifically 802 00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,400 Speaker 1: identify somebody and you're going to take them out? But 803 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:50,880 Speaker 1: so many of these things are randomized, Dave, that you 804 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:55,960 Speaker 1: go all the way back to the firefighters, those two 805 00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,680 Speaker 1: unfortunate young men that were shot in the firehouse, one 806 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 1: of which died and the others survived. What you know, 807 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,759 Speaker 1: it's it's almost like throwing a brick through a stained 808 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,360 Speaker 1: glass window. Why are you going to do that? You know? 809 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,920 Speaker 1: It just it doesn't make sense at all, unless again 810 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 1: it's a warm up act. And if if that's not 811 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,680 Speaker 1: the warm up act, I want to know how far 812 00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:23,560 Speaker 1: in his past has he been committing violent crimes as well, Dave, 813 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: when this thing finally goes to trial, First off, it 814 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,600 Speaker 1: is going to be a capital murder case. I can 815 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,240 Speaker 1: you can take that to the bank. That's going to happen, 816 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:43,160 Speaker 1: and he is going to be looking almost certainly at 817 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 1: the death penalty. Uh, They're they're going to make that happen. 818 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 1: I would would imagine the prosecutors the amount of forensic 819 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 1: evidence in this case. To say that it's a tidal 820 00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 1: wave is an understatement because just like I mentioned, for 821 00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 1: every person that was shot by this guy, there will 822 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,799 Speaker 1: be ballistics, there's going to be forensic pathology that's going 823 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,640 Speaker 1: to come into this. They're going to talk about things 824 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:18,879 Speaker 1: like how long did they live, did they suffer? And 825 00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,600 Speaker 1: then you're going to have all of these people that 826 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,520 Speaker 1: are also witnesses that have been injured that are going 827 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,040 Speaker 1: to get up on the stand and they're going to 828 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,600 Speaker 1: talk about what happened that night, and they're going to 829 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,520 Speaker 1: talk about they're going to say the I can guarantee you, 830 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,520 Speaker 1: I can see it come with prosecutors going to say, now, 831 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,160 Speaker 1: if you don't mind me asking, sir, can he tell 832 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,399 Speaker 1: us that night, the night of the shooting, where were 833 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:45,520 Speaker 1: you shot? Specifically? Yeah, I was shot in my stomach twice. 834 00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,400 Speaker 1: And certain may ask how many surgeries that you have 835 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:53,279 Speaker 1: to go through? I don't know, two three? How long 836 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,719 Speaker 1: were you in the hospital? Two weeks? Three weeks? And 837 00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,879 Speaker 1: have you fully recovered? They be like this the rest 838 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,200 Speaker 1: of my life. They're going to hear that in coordinate 839 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 1: over and over and over and over again. It's hard 840 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:12,640 Speaker 1: to take the measure of the damage that has come 841 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:18,040 Speaker 1: about at the hands of this individual. We're going to 842 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:22,359 Speaker 1: stay on this case, watch it very very closely, and 843 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,759 Speaker 1: keep everyone up to speed on it because this is 844 00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,880 Speaker 1: not going to be over with anytime soon. I'm going 845 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 1: to be interested to see if he has in fact 846 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,520 Speaker 1: been involved in any other shootings that he could be 847 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,880 Speaker 1: credited with, any other deaths, any other assaults. And the 848 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 1: big mystery here that the cops have not really let 849 00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: onto a lot about at this point in time is 850 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,120 Speaker 1: if he is a hit man, who is it that 851 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,719 Speaker 1: hired him, what was their motivation, and where did he 852 00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 1: get the weapons to perpetrate these crimes. I'm Joseph Scott 853 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,400 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Body Fast