1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: Pushkin, Pushkin, Welcome to Broken Record Season two. I'm Malcolm Glado, 2 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: Rick Rubin, Bruce Headlam and I are back eight more 3 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: weeks of conversation with some of the most talented musicians 4 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: in the world. We're gonna talk to them, they're going 5 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: to play for us, and we're starting with an insane 6 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: two part interview with a mere Quest Love Thompson, drummer 7 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: for The Roots, a hip hop band from Philly that 8 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: it has become The Tonight Show's house band. Quest is 9 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: also a producer, a DJ, and an all around musical polymn. 10 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: I sat down with him in Manhattan after a taping 11 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: of The Tonight Show. Rick joined us by a sky 12 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: from a studio in Hawaii. We didn't think we talked 13 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: a Quest for nearly three hours, but he kept pulling 14 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: us in story after story. Afterwards, I texted Rick all 15 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: caps that went well. First off, Amyra, thank you so 16 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: much for joining us, Thank you for having me, Thank you, Reck, 17 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: and I've been looking forward to this all week. You 18 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: first of all, you guys, you know each other from 19 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 1: how far back from life? When did I first meet you? Rick? 20 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: I think I have a vague action, but I want 21 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: to see if you have the same one as me. 22 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: I think around Voodoo time two thousand ish. I believe 23 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: I met Rick somewhere in La I think it's two thousand. Okay, 24 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: I'll tell you my recollection was. We met in the 25 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: lobby of a hotel that had very high ceilings. It 26 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: was really dark, and it was at some sort of 27 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: a big show festival on the East coast, maybe Tibetan 28 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: Freedom Festival, in the hotel in the lobby. Okay, yeah, okay, 29 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: could that be yes? I think that's correct, Yes, you're right. DC. 30 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 1: It was on like second album of yours, it was, 31 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: I know it was early third album, but it was 32 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: about fourth album time. I remember we tried the first 33 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: time we tried to do Tibetan Freedom it rained out, 34 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: so instead I was one of the lucky few people 35 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: that got to see Radiohead at the nine thirty club. 36 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: Really instead you went to well, no, no no, I mean 37 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: they were, you know, like it was like a lightning 38 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: storm threatened the DC portion of the Tibetan Freedom concert. 39 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: So instead, you know, everybody's going home and radio Heads like, 40 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: wait a minute, we're going to be the nine thirty clubs. 41 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: So it's a pretty Good Relation Prize. Yeah, yeah, no, 42 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: it was great. I wouldn't have had it any other way. 43 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: We're going to plunge into things musical. Okay, you're so 44 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: in your household growing up, so your dad has an 45 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: extraordinary record collection. Yeah, I understand it. So what do 46 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: you What are you listening to as a as a kid? 47 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: All right, so I grew up with three very distinct 48 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: record collectives. My dad was into what I would sort 49 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: of jokingly say is the yacht rock of his day. 50 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: He was into Mathis streisand vocal groups like he had 51 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: pet sounds, so you know, seeing pet sounds in my house. 52 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: As a kid, I was just like beach Boys whatever. 53 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: But once I got older and realized, oh, their harmony 54 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: game is bar none. Then anybody like flaunting harmony to 55 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: the next level like my dad was on it, or 56 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: vocals to the next level because he was sort of 57 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: like a Nat King Cole type. Mom was more funky 58 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: and hip, So any album cover that had like Marty 59 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: clairwig that like, you know, Miles Davis, Bitch's Brew or 60 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: Santana's album covers like those those oil really funky like 61 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: abstract oil painting covers like she would buy records like 62 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: a like a crate digger or a record collector in 63 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: my day, does like you look at the cover, Oh, 64 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: this monkey gotta be something like that's how she collected 65 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: I got famous Ohio players. Yeah, anything funny? So funny 66 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: you say that because I get a copy of Honey 67 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: when I'm six years old on the corner. It's like, uh, 68 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: this is January twenty, nineteen seventy six, Happy fifth birthday, Mare, 69 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: We love you very much, Mommy and Daddy. And I'm like, 70 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: that's the way that album coming. I'm like, yo, like, 71 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: do you guys realize what you gave me? Like it? 72 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: For those who are not on it's it is a 73 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: very very beautiful, very very NEI. But they were just 74 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: like we saw this high art and that's the thing, 75 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: even though I didn't see it as Slation's like, oh 76 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: my god, who's this one? Yeah, Like I'm you know, 77 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: I just saw a theme of Okay, everyd Ohio player's 78 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: album cover looks like black playboy. My sister. My sister 79 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: at that time, blending in with her middle school friends 80 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: and eventually her high school friends, you kind of sort 81 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: of have to adapt to their taste. She's bringing home 82 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: Bohemian Rhapsody, She's bringing home Bowie, She's bringing home fal Cat. 83 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: Like my dad and my sister have very similar tastes. 84 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: My sister is like one of the biggest yacht rock fans. 85 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: I know, Rupert Holmes, Ambrosia, like all that soft the 86 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: Captain ands Neil, all that stuff. And the main role 87 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: in the household was don't touch my stereo. So I'm 88 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: not allowed to choose what I want to hear, so 89 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: I have to be forced to listen to what they 90 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: want to hear. You were held hostage by yacht rock 91 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: as a child, I mean, you know, I think from 92 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: the age of three till about nine, you just take 93 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: in everything that they give you. So I mean I 94 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: pretty much had an adults knowledge of music by the 95 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: time I was ten years old. Like I was reading 96 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone. I often talk about seeing the Prince Dirty 97 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: Mind lead review, the Yoko cover story of Rolling Stone, 98 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: her first interview after John was assassinating, and I knew 99 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: it was a big deal even at the age of nine, 100 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: that Prince got a four and a half star lead 101 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: review and Rolling Stone, because in my head, I was like, wait, 102 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: white people don't know this guy, Like, how do he 103 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: get the lead review on the artwork and all this stuff, 104 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: and reading the how glowing it was, I was just like, 105 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: this is a big deal. So I really had an 106 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: adults vocabulary with music by the time I was ten. 107 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: Do you have any memories of records of like specific events, 108 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: like the time that you the first time you saw 109 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: so and so I could. I have a bunch of them, 110 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: but I want to ask you first of yeah, oh man, 111 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: the day that Songs in the Key of Life came out, 112 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: that that could have been a national holiday. I mean, 113 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: the world stopped. It was like war the worlds. We 114 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: brought the record and like the entire family even like 115 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm coming over and listened to it, Like my mom's 116 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: sister came to the house and we're just sitting there 117 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: listening to this record. Now again, I'm six years old, 118 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,679 Speaker 1: so you know, I'm not understanding anything about Stevie Wonder's 119 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: genius period and the fact that you know, from seventy one, 120 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: you know that the streak was happening, and I didn't 121 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: know Malcolm Murciso like his producers and none of those 122 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: guys were But I just remember like how they treated 123 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: that album as an event and there was a booklet 124 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: inside it, and these fonts are really weird and is 125 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: he drowning in donuts? And just everything about that album 126 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: was like an event. So I mean, did any one 127 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: of the did you appreciate it as an album? Or 128 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: do certain songs even today kind of stand up really 129 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: because of Stevie Wonder, I'm not an album guy, and 130 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: I feel so ashamed to say them front of you, Rick, 131 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: because I know that you create great singles. I'm just 132 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: now realizing as a DJ now, and I mean, like 133 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: in the last three to four years, like, oh man, 134 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: the single does matter. I'm suddenly seeing be what I 135 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: should have known thirty years ago when I first started. 136 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: But I've just seen albums as peaks and valleys and statements. 137 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: And you know, for me, it was I always felt 138 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: as that, as though, any how my creates should be like, Okay, 139 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: well he starts off with a slow song here, and 140 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: he slowly rises here, and then the jazz fusing songs 141 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: number four, and then the high end songs are here, 142 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: and then he a little bit here and side threes 143 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: a little slow, and then the breathless race of the 144 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 1: finish at the end. So I always took it as 145 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: complete statements, which is why I'm one of the few 146 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: people that I was elated with Journey through the Secret 147 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: Life of Plants, which everybody included my dad. Once that 148 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: came out, He's like, I'm not buying me. He stopped 149 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: record binging after Journey through the Secret Life of Plants 150 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: because yeah, but for me, that was my dark side 151 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: of the moon. That was my put headphones on, close 152 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: your eyes and imagine, like what's happening and you hear 153 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: all this panned noise and everything. And I didn't know 154 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: about pop hits or you know, why is it all instrumental? 155 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: That sort of thing, Like, what's your version of that 156 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: kind of event album from your childhood? Is there one? 157 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: Do you have a version of the of Sons in 158 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: the Cave Life? Well, I can remember that particular album. 159 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: I can remember getting that album and Chuck Mangioni at 160 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: the same time, so they must have come out in 161 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: the same year, I imagine. And I remember I had 162 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: a little keyboard although I couldn't really play anything, and 163 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: trying to play along all the different parts on the record, 164 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: just on the keyboard, just try to have some understanding 165 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: of what was going on. I can remember the first 166 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: time I was in a record store and I saw, Now, 167 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: this is sort of it's late for this because the 168 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: record came out much earlier. But I remember finding the 169 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: MC five and first seeing that first album cover and 170 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: then listening to it and thinking, well, this is during 171 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: punk rock times, like, wow, this is it's kind of 172 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: like punk rock, but it's old, but it has that energy. 173 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: It has like a frantic energy, and that really excited me. 174 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: And that I can remember, Okay, is there anyone else 175 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: like the MC five. It's like, well, it's not exactly 176 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: like them, but then it leads you to Iggy and 177 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: the Stooges, and I can just remember these moments of 178 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: revelation of hearing a new I can remember the first 179 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: time I heard their Moones and just didn't have any 180 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: point of reference for it. I have a slight confessor 181 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: to make. Yeah, I hate to say this. I finally 182 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: listened to the entire Ramones album start to finish eight 183 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: days ago, and I'm so mad that it took me 184 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: so long to do it. What led you to do it? Okay, 185 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: this is the lamest thing ever. So I'm kind of 186 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: at a creative fork in the road right now. As 187 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: far as DJing is concerned, because a lot of the 188 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: collective music I play feels to a specific audience, and 189 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out more creative ways to bring 190 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: them out because of course, like you know, the people 191 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: that like the music that I like are older, they 192 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: have kids. They're not coming out at two three in 193 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: the morning. I'll say. In the last year or so, 194 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: I've been doing Saturday afternoon Djay Sunday afternoon DJing so 195 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: that it's family friendly. Parents can come and relive their 196 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: club days and the kids can have It's it's my 197 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: version of re hip hop, because hip hop's supposed to 198 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: be a community based afternoon sort of thing, that sort 199 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: of thing. And I did uh an ice skating rink. 200 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: I knew it was going to be a lot of 201 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: kids there, and I was like, all right, well, let 202 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: me make sure that I'm playing kid friendly stuff whatnot, 203 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: and not just happened to just look on the internet. 204 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: I was like, all right, adult music that kids seem 205 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: to like as well. And of course briskly I can't 206 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: pronounce it, risking bop was listed and I was like, yeah, 207 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: because they always sing that at sports at sports events, 208 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: and I didn't have it, so I downloaded it and 209 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: I saw that, oh, all the songs are under two 210 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: minutes and thirty seconds. Two minutes and thirty seconds. And 211 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: as a songwriter, as I spoke to you before, like 212 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: not focusing on singles, I'm now obsessed with people that 213 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: have had successful singles under three minutes, because it's one 214 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: thing to do these well thought out, you know, introspective, 215 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: eleven minute free jazz stuff. And the roots are such artists, 216 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: but it's like, can we do judy as a punk? 217 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: Can we make an effective song with bare minimum in 218 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: three minutes? Can we be just as effective? So now 219 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: I'm trying to study minimalist effectiveness. So it's like as 220 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: a writer, it's why I'm obsessed with commercials. Always been 221 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: obsessed with commercials because they tell a story in thirty seconds, 222 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: you know, And if you are a writer and you 223 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: know how hard it is tell a story, you're you 224 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: put the person who writes to brilliant commercial at the 225 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: top of the list. The only reason why I'm obsessed 226 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: with this is because now that I work at the 227 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: Tonight Show, we have to write eight second jingles, of 228 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: which you have to have narrative of what the title is. 229 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: Writing eight second songs is sort of our version of commercials. 230 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: So how often this is a question for both you 231 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: as producers, how often do you say to the artist 232 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: you're working with, make it shorter. I never do, unless 233 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: unless it's boring. It's like it's really every piece has 234 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: the length that it wants to be. I have a 235 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: question for you. Yeah, okay, so fight for your right 236 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: to party. Yeah, I'll say the last four years. I 237 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: read the original demo version with extra verses in it, 238 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: and YadA, YadA, YadA. So I'm asking this mainly because 239 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: I just read the Beastie Boy book. So in your head, 240 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: how did you have that much discipline to know what 241 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: to reduce? Like, you're famous for reducing stuff, taking taking 242 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: elements away. So honestly, in that case, I don't remember 243 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: it ever being longer than that. Well, there's like an 244 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: extra verse in there that was taken away, So I 245 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: wonder I'd love to hear it, because I have no 246 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: recollection of it ever being longer. In those days, it 247 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: would be unusual for us to shorten anything. Really, Yeah, 248 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: and then you weren't thinking like, okay, three minutes and 249 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: thirty seconds. Ever in my life have I thought that? 250 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: So you don't have Clive Davis ears and not in 251 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: the least I'm I'm but you're so bullseye with it. 252 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: Like it has to do with growing up where I 253 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: grew up and listening to the Beatles. So the first 254 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: formative music for me was the Beatles, and those were 255 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: short pop songs. So I had that formula of goodness 256 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: in me from the time I was a little kid. 257 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: That was just all I knew that was good. And 258 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: when I would hear something that felt like anytime, it 259 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: felt like it got boring to me, right, it was 260 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: too long, but some you know, I like ten minute 261 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: jams too well. I mean, one of my favorite groups 262 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: is Trouble Funk, and if you listen to their music, 263 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: it just goes forever. Right, He's being seriously modest right now, 264 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: but like he literally the most revolutionary thing that he 265 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: brought to the world of hip hop was he literally 266 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: invented the three minute song. Like before him, even a 267 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: song as as sticky and friendly as the message like 268 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: grand Master Flast and that was still eight minutes Planet 269 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: rock because you're thinking of the club and keeping the 270 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: groove lasting a long time. That sort of thing ll 271 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: like when we got Ello's record, Yo, these songs are 272 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: four minutes long, Like we never even fathom that you 273 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: could have an effect of hip hop record or song 274 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: to be three minutes and fifty seconds. Like just seeing 275 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: those times on the Deft dam thing, I was just like, 276 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: this is weird, what's going on here? But to you, 277 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: that was just anyone else. It was just based on 278 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: growing up with the Beatles. That was it. It wasn't. 279 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: It was not at all premeditated in any way. It 280 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: was natural to me. And when I would get you know, 281 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: I collected twelve inch twelve inch vinyl at that time, 282 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: because every hip hop record came out twelve inch pretty much. 283 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: That was the main format of the day. So I 284 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: would get these, you know, Jimmy Spicer records that were 285 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 1: nine minutes long, and it would be or twelve minutes long, 286 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: and it always seemed like they weren't made to listen to, 287 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: they were made to dance to. They weren't. They weren't 288 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: long in service to the song, right, And I've always 289 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: wanted to work in service to the song, whatever that is. 290 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: And sometimes it's the whole side of an album. Sometimes 291 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: it's three minutes, but usually just take someone so long 292 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: to learn that lesson. And I think it just has 293 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: to do with where you started listening to Farrow Sanders 294 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: and longer, more experimental pieces. I started listening to the Beatles, 295 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: but again before I knew what I was listening to, 296 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: just what I gravitated towards the Beatles and the Monkeys 297 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: when I was a little teeny kid. No, I'll admit that, 298 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,719 Speaker 1: or selfishly or whatever, like I was definitely creating stuff 299 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: that teenage me would want to. I didn't know what 300 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: a pop hook was or none of that stuff until 301 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, even when we got our first real hit 302 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: four albums, and there was fear that I might ruin 303 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: it because I wanted to show our drum end bassed 304 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: London influence, and it became a thing of like, yo, 305 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: it's just too radical for the song, like, well, this 306 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: ruin it. But even then my answer was like, we're 307 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: not a pop group, so it doesn't matter, right, Like, 308 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: we're never ever going to get on the radio in 309 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 1: this lifetime, so let's just do it. And then it 310 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: backfired and worked. But even then I didn't know why 311 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: the song worked and the elements that made it work 312 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: It wasn't until I started DJing. Like, if you look 313 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: throughout history, every great producer has done a lot of 314 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: hours djaying somewhere. Rick has done it, Jimmy Jam, Doctor 315 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: Dre had hissed it suation. The reason why he's so 316 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: good is because if you played the wrong song, the 317 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: club might get shot up. So imagine djaying under those 318 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: tense conditions. So it's almost like you have to have 319 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: a winner out of the game. It's a hip hop 320 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: version of that famous statement, the prospect of a hanging 321 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: in the morning concentrates the mind wonderfully. This case is 322 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: the prospect of a shooting in the club. Yes, concentrates 323 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: the djaying wonderfully. Yeah, well can you? This is the 324 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: other thing that I've always been obsessed with, and that 325 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: is that when you get immersed, as the two of 326 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: you are in music, what happens when you listen to 327 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: music that's not your own? Can you turn the critic 328 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: off and appreciate it with your without passing judgment, or 329 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: are you actually producing the song in your head as 330 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: you listen? Who first? I can do that with records, 331 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: I can't do that with concerts. In concerts, I become 332 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: the same man, God, they got to turn the high 333 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: head up. Sometimes at actual shows, I'll run back to 334 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: the guy, no, the sound guy. Oh my god, I'm 335 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: such a fan. Good you start up to high at more, 336 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: just say a little bit and then run Like I 337 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: micromanage many a concert records. I do that with Prince 338 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: a lot. I'll say that with Prince. I'll do that. 339 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: You'll do what was critiqued as you listen. I'm harder 340 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: on him than I am on anyone else well, because 341 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: it's like Prince is my DNA, and I've always felt 342 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: as though it's usually when you upgrade your situation, like 343 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: if you the artist that I like, Uh, let's take 344 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: Risen from Wu Tang. People will speak with great reverence 345 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: of the first five Wu Tang projects from Enter the 346 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: thirty six Chambers up until let's say, uh, iron Man 347 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: the ghost Face album. And that's because they had limited 348 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: resources inside of his apartment in Staten Island. But it's 349 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,239 Speaker 1: like once they upgrade it to that plus studio in 350 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: La for Wu Tak forever, that's when they started beeting 351 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: a difference from the fan base with Prince. The same 352 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: thing when he was in his bedroom with like very 353 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: limited equipment. That's where like the most creative shit ever happened. 354 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: And you know, I mean, I'll allow a pass for 355 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: the record plant as well. He was in that zone there, 356 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: but once he got to Paisley Park, then I started noticing, like, ah, man, 357 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: I bet you he used like sure fifty seven microphones 358 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: on the drums and used an SSL board and then 359 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: I just started like dissecting machine and the cleanness of 360 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: it all. And you know, it's hard for me to 361 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: separate that. I occasionally do that with Stevie Wonder as well. 362 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: I do it with everything pretty much anything I hear. 363 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: I'm always thinking, oh, I wish it was more like this, 364 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: or like like I just imagine it sounding different, and 365 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,719 Speaker 1: it's hard to turn off the producer brain. It's one 366 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: of the reasons I really like listening to classical music 367 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: and jazz, because I don't have that same feeling listening 368 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: to that music, but listening to hip hop or listening 369 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: to rock music, or more often than not, I'm producing 370 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: in my head. There's one example which would be fun 371 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: to talk about because you're involved, is the D'Angelo Voodoo 372 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: album to me, is absolutely perfect. It's the first time 373 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: I can remember listening through to an album wishing I 374 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 1: had something to do with it because it was so good. 375 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: It was just like, oh my god, this is everything 376 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: I want an album to be, and it was unlike 377 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: anything I'd ever heard before. Such a scary time period, man, 378 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: because Virgin wasn't seeing it that way. Oh man, there 379 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: you know, there was a lot of Okay, when will 380 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: you guys actually start the real record now and stop 381 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: messing around. We're looking at each other like, this is 382 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: the record we tell us how you got involved with 383 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: D'Angelo and that elf. I met di'angelo and Eric Abadu 384 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: coincidentally on April Fools nineteen ninety six, I'm on tour 385 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 1: with the Fujis and the Goodie Mob. It is the 386 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: sole Trade Awards weekend. One year before the Biggie tragedy. 387 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: The Fujis were just beginning there Crest into the Stars 388 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: with the Score album. So there was a lot of 389 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: playful sort of tension between the two groups. You know, 390 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: by this point, the Roots become like such a well 391 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: oiled machine live and like, Okay, we gotta kick their 392 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: ass tonight. We're in La we gotta do it. And 393 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: I remember getting on my drum set and seeing I 394 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: didn't know who Erica was, I'd assume at the time 395 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: that was his girlfriend. You know, she had the tall 396 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: head wrap onorn. But I knew D'Angelo silhouette because he 397 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: was like front. I could see his silhouette front and 398 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: center behind the lights. And I remembered that I dismissively 399 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: talked myself out of playing on Brown Sugar, his previous album, 400 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: because at the time I was just like soul singers 401 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: in the nineties, whatever, I'm not doing this, you know, 402 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: R and B guys like nothing about sol singing had 403 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: moved me from any nineties offering the same way that 404 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: it did when Otis writing and Stevie Wonder Lou Rawl's 405 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: like soul music. They were like, yeah, he wants you 406 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: to drum on this record, and I looked at him 407 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: like I'll pass. And then I got Brown Sugar and 408 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, this guy could be the one. 409 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: And so I've been trying to figure out how to 410 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: get back in his good graces so I can be 411 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: there for round two. Now. The thing is is that 412 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: because of this rivalry thing we have with the Fujis, 413 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: the show was a certain way. But when I saw DiAngelo. 414 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: I decided to call an audible and basically have have 415 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: a conversation with Jess him, which meant that I was 416 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,959 Speaker 1: now about to throw my entire band off, because what 417 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: I would normally do for a particular intro of a song, 418 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: I'm now saying, all right, I'm gonna do this very 419 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: obscure prince drum roll and see if he gets it. 420 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: So I'm doing the Prince drum roll instead, and my 421 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: band's looking at me like what are you doing. You're 422 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: just trying to impress the age, right, but they didn't 423 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: get that, you know, and I'm just calling this song 424 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: like so they're they're looking at me like you're thwarting 425 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: and throwing off the entire show. But the only person 426 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: that mattered to me in the room that night was 427 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: and when he heard that intro, he stood at attention. 428 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,479 Speaker 1: It was like yo. And when I seen that, I 429 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I got you, motherfucker. And then and 430 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: then like that whole show was the first time that 431 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: the drumming I'm doing for now started to come to life. 432 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: And again throwing my band off, like why are you 433 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: playing like a like a drunk three year old, like 434 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: why are you playing off rhythm, why are you? And 435 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: the thing was I had to put the bait on 436 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: the hook and throw it out there, and once he 437 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: grabbed it, I was like, nope, not leg but like 438 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: this is how I'm and a drum from now on. 439 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: So he got it. They were mad as hell at 440 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: me that night, but he got it, and you know, 441 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: I felt good because then all the Fuji's records skipped, 442 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: so they had a bad performance that night, so we won. 443 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, after that, then he knew that was the 444 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: African communication thing, like I had to use my drum 445 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: to tell him, okay, we speak the same language. And 446 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: he came to Philly to do a song on her album. 447 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: It was the last day of recording and we had 448 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: like seven hours left, so we just continued to play 449 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: and then it was like, well, come by next week, 450 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: come by next week. And then the fourth time I'm 451 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: at Electric Lady Studios for what will be a five 452 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: year tutorial and education and probably one of the greatest 453 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: creative periods of my that was my becoming an adult. 454 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: Just every day like I was YouTube because I was 455 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: still doing these mammoth grateful dead like tours with the Roots, 456 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: spending all my off days at Electric Lady with him, 457 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: but mostly traveling the world, collecting any and every videotape 458 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: performance of some vintage Al Green and nineteen seventy four 459 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: and Graham Central Station in nineteen seventy six, and bringing 460 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: it back to Electric Lady so we could study it. 461 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: And then after we watch it like two or three times, 462 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: then we come and then play what we just watched, 463 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: and after four hours of messing around, suddenly he'll change 464 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: the key and I'll say, hey, what you doing now, No, 465 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: keep on playing the rhythm justin and then suddenly the 466 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: morphing of a new song starts. And that's pretty much 467 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,959 Speaker 1: why Voodoo took five years to make those twelve songs, 468 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: because that was the slow, arduous process of digging and 469 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: digging and morphing and digging and morphing and coming up 470 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: with We had a similar experience with the first Beastie 471 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: Boys album, which took I think three years to make, 472 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: and it was the same reason. It was like it 473 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: wasn't yeah, It was just like looking for these inspirational 474 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: jumping off points and then messing with those in the 475 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: studio to make it an interesting track, and then we 476 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: would write to it. But but that would happen. It 477 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: happened over a long period of I can remember I 478 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: might have told you this story before, Malcolm, but I 479 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: can remember being at a different session and Mike d 480 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: calling me really upsets, like, how come our album's not 481 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: done yet. It's like, you can't rush it. It's like, 482 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: you can't, it's not it's not right. It comes when 483 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: it comes, you know, it's not a it's not automatic. 484 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: So it reminds me of that experience of that sort 485 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: of what's the jam session process like for that time period. 486 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: Who's the person that's like, hey, let's program something, you know, 487 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,239 Speaker 1: this particular way and backwards masket or even like the 488 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: starts and stops in like the new style or just okay, 489 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: that's another life changing album for me, by the way, 490 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: Licensed to Ill life changing, the world stopping, life changing. 491 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: So but it was done with the same sort of 492 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: precision you're talking about. And then it would have been 493 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: more often than not, it would have just been me 494 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: and an engineer in the room working on the music 495 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,239 Speaker 1: for a long time until I had something that was 496 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: exciting enough to even feel comfortable playing for the band, 497 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: you know, like it had to the music really had 498 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: to be right first, and so many of the drops 499 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: and things, it was all rooted in the vocals. So 500 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: we would first there would be the the basic track, 501 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: which would be either samples or it was really loops 502 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: then because there was no sampler yet, so it was 503 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: either loops or direct djaying in parts program drums. I 504 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: would play rudimentary like guitar stuff if it needed to 505 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: be there, and we would get the tracks to that point. 506 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: Then we would usually write the words which would happen 507 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: over a while, and we were always collecting lyrics, Like 508 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: me and Adam Harvitz would go out to danceteria pretty 509 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: much every night and just goof around and try to 510 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: make each other laugh, and if the other person laughed, 511 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: it was usually a usable line. And just always like 512 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: little tiny pieces of paper with scribbled notes on them, 513 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: and that was like a comedian. C very much was 514 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: like that, and it was I would say that we 515 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: were as inspired by Monty Python and Steve Martin as 516 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: we were by anybody doing music. It really was about 517 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: inside jokes and making each other the laugh wow, and 518 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: then the things, the drops you talk about, would happen. 519 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: After the vocals were done. We would all of us 520 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: line up at the console and everybody was before automation, 521 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: or at least before automation for us, and we would 522 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: each man a section of the console and then we 523 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: would play it and do different drops and experiment and like, 524 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: and you'd learn the song almost like learning musical parts, wow, 525 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: so that you could do the same drop every time. 526 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: And we would try to get through the whole song 527 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: with five people standing at the desk doing muting or rides, 528 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: and just like live automation. That was pretty much how 529 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: we made all all those that also run DMC as well. 530 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: At that time. We'll be back with more from Questlove 531 00:31:51,760 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: after this break. We're back with more Questlove. Wait, I 532 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: hate to jack your podcast. I have one more fan 533 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,959 Speaker 1: question to ask him. Please, no, no, this is what 534 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: we want you to do. I don't think you you 535 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: don't get enough accolades for going back to Cali. But 536 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: what I specifically want to know is the scratching on 537 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: going back to Cali is probably the loudest example of 538 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: scratching loud, as in could skip your record if your 539 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: needle is weak loud. Yes, why you know, I don't 540 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: know if you remember, not remember so long ago whatever, 541 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: But what was the logic behind that it was such 542 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: a game changer for not a major single for or 543 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: a fan favorite of LLS, but it was such a 544 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: major production. The boom of the eight oh eight and 545 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: the loudness of the scratching was unusual. What made you 546 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: do that? It was just it was just trying to 547 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: push the limits of what was exciting about the Music's 548 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: like how can we make the eight to oh eight bigger? 549 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: How can we? You know? And the scratching was also 550 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: like almost I never really thought about this for but 551 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: it does sort of relate to voodoo and how it's 552 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: kind of sounds almost slowed down, you know, like yeah, yeah, yeah, 553 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: and that like that's more speaking to my inability as 554 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: to DJ than necessarily a real choice. You know, I've 555 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: I've always loved it, but I mean the engineers that 556 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: house engineers ever try to talk you out of things, 557 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: Like I've done a lot of things where it's like, no, 558 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: you can't do that, and you'll upset the system and 559 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: the record will skip it. Yes, from from the very 560 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: first from my punk rock band recording, I can remember 561 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: everything that I wanted to do, the studio telling me 562 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: you can't do that, and we did it anywhere any 563 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: when it sounded really good to us, even though you 564 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: know it was a mess, right, okay, it was really Again, 565 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: it's not about for me, it's never been about doing 566 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: it right. It's always about I'm just trying to feel something. 567 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: I'm playing with it until I feel it. And sometimes 568 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: it's more interesting when it's not smooth or I don't know. 569 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's interesting when it's when something's really wrong, like 570 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: if a vocal's really too loud, can be interesting sometimes. 571 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 1: In the case of the D'Angelo record, I remember thinking, 572 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 1: I can't believe that this guy is such a great 573 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: singer with such a beautiful voice, and the vocals are 574 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: so understated and quiet, almost like it was an afterthought, 575 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: and it was brilliant. It was like it was It 576 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: was the opposite of what you'd expect from the greatest 577 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: soul singer of his day. It just went the other way, right. Wow. 578 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: My question for two of you is, when you're doing 579 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: these records set in retrospect become iconic, when do you 580 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:10,760 Speaker 1: realize they're iconic. I read a Pitchfork Perfect ten review 581 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: of Voodoo, of which they dissected it and analyzed it 582 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: and painted in such a different light that I didn't 583 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: realize that, oh, oh god, this IE's about to get 584 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: like a second round of accolades because suddenly, like the 585 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: hipster community is discovering it. And then you know, all 586 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: of a sudden, cats from Animal collect cats from Dirty Projectors, 587 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: and then like all these groups they're coming up to me, 588 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: like yo, man. Voodoo came out when I was eleven, 589 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: and Da Da Da and I hit a d like, yo, dude, 590 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: white hipster Brooklyn bands really like Voodoo. This is crazy. 591 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: And the thing was, it was like when we were 592 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: first done and I have my copy of it, like 593 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: before the world had it. My assistant at the time 594 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: was like, ugh, this sounds horrible. I was at a 595 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: restaurant and I was like, yo, I got the new 596 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: D'Angelo and they gave it back to me by like 597 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: song two. Ah. Man. It was just like I was 598 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: so scared of because I felt like, oh man, I'm 599 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: the co pilot and I ruined a marquee star of 600 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: another label, Like they're really going to kill me for this. 601 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: So I didn't feel that the first go round, and 602 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: it really wasn't until ten years later, once the reissue 603 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: came out, and once I started hearing other people's views 604 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: of it that I realized like, oh, okay, maybe we 605 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: did make art. Like he still refuses to believe. Not 606 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: that he's just mind blown, but you know, he's not 607 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: on the internet every day and that sort of thing, 608 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: so he still doesn't have an ankling of a clue 609 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: that he created a master work. He still doesn't know. 610 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: He'll be mind blown that I'm gonna tell him, Like, Yo, 611 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: I talked to Rick Ruve and he really loves Voodoo 612 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,320 Speaker 1: Get out here, man. You say that like that's that's 613 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: gonna be his reaction, not like really loves it like 614 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: in the greatest of all time, Like it's it's a 615 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: short list and it's right there. Hey, you're preaching to 616 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 1: the requirement grit. Did you think that way the very 617 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: first time you heard it? Or did you absolutely something absolutely? 618 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: It just took me by surprise. I can't say I 619 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: wasn't a fan of the album before that. I just 620 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: didn't really listen to the album before that. This album 621 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,919 Speaker 1: caught me right from the beginning, and it just right 622 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: away it didn't sound like anything else. So the same 623 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 1: thing that alienated the people who didn't like it was 624 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: what drew me to it is that I'm listening to 625 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: something I don't have a point of reference for, and 626 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: that's really exciting, and I look for those experiences and 627 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: it was a great It was a great version of 628 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: it too. It's not it wasn't weird for the sake 629 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: of being weird. It wasn't different to show, oh we 630 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: could do something different. It was different because it was 631 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,520 Speaker 1: cool as fuck to be different. Do you do you 632 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: remember me when you're talking about the process of putting 633 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: that album together and you said you were bringing back 634 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: bits and pieces from your travels and wanderings and things. 635 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: Do you remember some examples of those Back then? It 636 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 1: was again, I was YouTube. The first time I went 637 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: to Japan, I spent all my money in sort of 638 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: the video district. So I came back. I went to 639 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,959 Speaker 1: Japan with one Kipling bag of my clothes. I came 640 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: home from Japan with four Kipling bags and three of 641 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: them all VHS cassettes. I mean, that's the first time 642 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: I saw Soul Train in twenty years. So when we 643 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: were studying all the Algreen performances on Soul Train in 644 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: on a midnight special, we noticed that al Green always 645 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: had a trick. The trick was, you know, he'd always 646 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: tells band he gave a signal which instantly brought the 647 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: band down to a whisper, and we thought that was 648 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: the most exciting part of That's the exciting part of it. 649 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: That's when the women starts screaming or whatever. So we 650 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: were just taking bits and pieces of like, okay, so 651 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: when we do this record in concert, do you do 652 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: then we're all going to take it down to a whisper. 653 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: So we were just taking notes from any and everything 654 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,760 Speaker 1: that we saw. Band dynamics with Al Green, band cues 655 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: from Prince who's notorious for this means that in the 656 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: back means that, and the hip means that, that sort 657 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 1: of thing. Every James Brown clip, I mean, I came 658 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: back with over fifty hours of and then at some 659 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: point it just became like Electrical Lady just became the 660 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: hangout spot to watch these things. So suddenly, like other 661 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: artists are coming in and watching and watching and watching 662 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: with us and watching with us, and of course like 663 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 1: virgins like what do you mean they're not in the studio, Huh, 664 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: they're doing what They're still in the breakroom watching TV 665 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: like that sort of thing. But we had to refuel ourselves. 666 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 1: So we get there four in the afternoon. We wouldn't 667 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: start a note until maybe eleven o'clock at night because 668 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: we had to fuel up and watch these performances over 669 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 1: and over and over again and talk about it and 670 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: then go in there and recreate it and then morph 671 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: it into what we feel it into our thing. And 672 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: this went on for years, went on for five years 673 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: between ninety six and ninety eight, a core of the 674 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: music was done and then I mean he's very meticulous 675 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,959 Speaker 1: with the vocal process, so all of late ninety seven, 676 00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: ninety eight, ninety nine was just all vocal. We never 677 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,240 Speaker 1: thought this album would be finished. I mean his follow 678 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 1: up record of fifteen years. So that's to give you. 679 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: That has to give you perspective if you had a 680 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: moment in your similar period in your career where there 681 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 1: was that level of intensity and absorption with one artist. Well, 682 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,760 Speaker 1: more like what he's saying, there have been times where 683 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 1: an album is taking a long period of time and 684 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 1: during that process we work on a lot of other things. 685 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,359 Speaker 1: And that goes back to like that first Beastie Boys 686 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,319 Speaker 1: album and BRN DMC's Raising Hell and Hello Cool Jay. 687 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: Those things were all happening, often overlapping, and it's happened 688 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: many times since then. Where I'd be doing pre production 689 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: on a Chili Peppers album while finishing a Tom Petty 690 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: album would be really normal to be happening. When we 691 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: come back, Questlov breaks down the production on Michael Jackson's 692 00:41:54,480 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: Off the Wall. After this break, stay tuned, we're back 693 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: with more of our conversation from Questlove. The way you're 694 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: describing this process is so profoundly different from the life 695 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,800 Speaker 1: of a writer that I have to ask these questions. 696 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: Is it not extraordinarily stressful and anxiety producing to have 697 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: a project stretch on and on and on for that 698 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: length of time And I'm assuming you're getting an angry 699 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 1: phone call every two days from the studio? Is this 700 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: not true? Someone has to pay for all of this. 701 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 1: During that period, budgets just were limitless, at least for 702 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,799 Speaker 1: my particular situation. The clients that I used just they 703 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: knew what they were getting. I mean, we just got 704 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: lucky that these albums went platinum or whatever. But these 705 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: were like art records for what was commercial at the time. 706 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: We were the opposite of that. No one. I mean, 707 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: of course, the good folks that Virgin Records would have 708 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: loved for Voodoo to come out in ninety seven, ninety 709 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,400 Speaker 1: eight or whatever, But I mean it came out in 710 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: the time that it was supposed to. I've never had that. 711 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you were a label as well, So did 712 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,919 Speaker 1: you ever have those? You know, Okay, I gotta put 713 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: my cap on and be the label CEO and never no, 714 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 1: my I always thought that my job in the label 715 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: was knowing that the music was the most important thing. 716 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: And as long as we're working on making the best 717 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 1: thing we can make, there's no better gift you can 718 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 1: give to a label than an album that's going to 719 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,799 Speaker 1: be meaningful. And whether that's a year later, we don't 720 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: have a chance to redo these things. So it's like 721 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,360 Speaker 1: when we feel like we're making something forever, a statement forever, 722 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,120 Speaker 1: you really want to get it to at least the 723 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,759 Speaker 1: best that you can in that moment in time. You know, 724 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: you may listen back to your work from twenty years 725 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,280 Speaker 1: ago and think, oh, I would do that differently today. 726 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,759 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean better or worse, but just the work 727 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 1: is a little bit like a diary, and that it's 728 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: a reflection of where you are in that moment, and 729 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 1: that's the best of your taste in that moment. I 730 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: mean for me, it's I say like it's done when 731 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: I get goosebumps, and when each song gives me goosebumps 732 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 1: and it matches my I'll do like a vision board, 733 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 1: if you will, inside of my notebook. PET. So usually 734 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: when I start a record, I start off with a 735 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: blank slate and there's twelve spots. In my mind, I'm thinking, okay, 736 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,440 Speaker 1: side one is four songs, and side two is five songs, 737 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: and side three is four songs, and side four is 738 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,399 Speaker 1: four songs. And as we're creating this stuff, I'm kind 739 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: of going back to that songs in the Key of 740 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 1: Life event listening living room moment that wore the worlds 741 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: looking at the stereo moment. As each song is created 742 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: and I start placing, like, okay, I would put this 743 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: third song on side two, I would put this. So 744 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,759 Speaker 1: when I I create stuff, I guess I'm in the 745 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: mind state of us listening to songs in the KIV life, 746 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,839 Speaker 1: analyzing the order of the songs and those things. And 747 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,240 Speaker 1: once I place or have places for those blank spots 748 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 1: and that's done, then I feel like, Okay, the mixes 749 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 1: have to give you goosebumps and whatnot, and then I 750 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:26,120 Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, we've reached satisfaction and this is its 751 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 1: songs in the Cave Life, by the way an album. 752 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 1: Do you feel about that album the way Rick feels 753 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,319 Speaker 1: about Voodoo? Is it beyond approach for you? You know what, 754 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder Michael Jackson are the two artists in whom, 755 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: whenever I'm asked to do these like your top twen 756 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: albums at all time whatever, I consider them more events. 757 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,760 Speaker 1: Like It's like Thrilling Off the Wall will never wind 758 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,799 Speaker 1: up on the top ten all time list that I 759 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: ever compile, because a borderline think of Thriller as a 760 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,839 Speaker 1: social experiment more than I do great collection of nine 761 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: depressing songs. I mean, but you know what's interesting, Michael 762 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 1: Jackson's Off the Wall, and I think I've an idea 763 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: of how Quincy Jones operates as a producer, because what 764 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 1: I'm noticing is, first of all, each song has somewhere 765 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: between a minimum of forty tracks, sometimes to sixty eight, 766 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 1: so it's almost like three tape machines. But what I 767 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,239 Speaker 1: notice is that for each song, my guess is that 768 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: Quincy used what I'll say is a ropodope approach with Michael, 769 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: which was, Okay, give me all your ideas, give me 770 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,360 Speaker 1: all the ideas he got, give me all the ideas 771 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 1: he got. Literally every song on Off the Wall, which 772 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,839 Speaker 1: we sort of note as a instant classic, is one 773 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,280 Speaker 1: minuscule step away from becoming like the worst dated disco 774 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 1: album of all time, because literally on each song there's like, Okay, 775 00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,680 Speaker 1: we'll do the disco kanda, you know, track of the 776 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: day on like work at day and night that would 777 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 1: have killed the song. You hear like like disco calls. 778 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: You hear way too many verses. You hear like weird synth, 779 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: oh God, burn this disco out. The last song that 780 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 1: closes the there's like some weird fire effects and synthesizer 781 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,799 Speaker 1: patches not needed. So basically it's I figured he let 782 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 1: everything out, every idea out, and then Michael trusted him 783 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 1: enough to pull Rick Ruben, which has reduced it all Right, 784 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,919 Speaker 1: we don't need this, we don't need this, we don't 785 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,280 Speaker 1: need this. It's weird because on Rock with You, Benjamin, 786 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,360 Speaker 1: I forget Benjamin's last name, the string arranger, there's lush, 787 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: lush strings on Rock with You, in my mind like, oh, 788 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,920 Speaker 1: some Barry White shit. They should have rolled with that, 789 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: but he took it away. And now I see why. 790 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,360 Speaker 1: You know, in hindsight it would have distracted from the 791 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: song because the strings were so beautiful on Rock with 792 00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 1: You that it would have taken away from the song. 793 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,560 Speaker 1: I would have been paying attention to the strings and 794 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 1: left the song alone. So that's what I mean about 795 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 1: like being a smart producer, Like I wouldn't have had 796 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: that knowledge. There's nine takes of She's Out of My Life, 797 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,720 Speaker 1: of which the version we all know is the least crying. 798 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 1: He would have he did, like by take six through eight, 799 00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,160 Speaker 1: I'm like, why is Bruce Swedeen letting the tape? I'm 800 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,840 Speaker 1: hearing Quincy like console Michael. He's like, I'm sorry the 801 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,840 Speaker 1: song and everything. And I would have been like, yo, 802 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,320 Speaker 1: I would have milked it for everything. I would have 803 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 1: chose like take six where he's really crying his eyes out, 804 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,880 Speaker 1: and I would have ruined it. But he knew exactly 805 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,800 Speaker 1: what to take away from it to make it perfect. 806 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,279 Speaker 1: And that's the type of discipline that I wish to 807 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:49,319 Speaker 1: get to one day. Yeah, one day I'll learn. One 808 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:57,200 Speaker 1: day I'll learn that's part one of mine and Rick's 809 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,200 Speaker 1: conversation with question nine. Part two is in your ed 810 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,080 Speaker 1: Now listen as he gets behind a kit to break 811 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,239 Speaker 1: down his drumming for us and tells us maybe the 812 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,120 Speaker 1: greatest Barack of Bottle story ever. Seriously. You can listen 813 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 1: to the songs featured and discussed in this episode at 814 00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,600 Speaker 1: broken record podcast dot com. Broken Records produced by Justin 815 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,760 Speaker 1: Richmond and Jason Gambrel with help from Mielobel, Jacob Smith, 816 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: Julia Barton, Jacob Weissberg, and of course Rick Rubin and 817 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,000 Speaker 1: Bruce Hammond. Our Broken Record theme song is by the 818 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,160 Speaker 1: great Kenny Beats. This show is brought to you by 819 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. I'm Malcolm Gradwell.