WEBVTT - Ep. 1045: Clay Newcomb's Greatest Whitetail Failures and Lessons Learned 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:04.600 Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:09.360 the whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:13.400 hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:18.759 Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon, 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:20.200 Welcome to the. 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.480 Wired to Hunt Podcast. This week on the show, I'm 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.000 joined by Clay Newcomb to discuss failure in the whitetail 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.760 Woods and beyond and the greatest lessons he's learned from 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:41.040 each and every one of those moments. All right, welcome 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.159 back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.519 by Moultrie. And today we're continuing the theme of failure 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.600 this month, and my guest is someone who I'm sure 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:54.840 almost all of you know. It's mister Clay Newcomb, my 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.600 good friend and colleague at Meat Eater, the host of 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.520 the Bear Grease podcast, and a dang good whitetail hunter 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.800 in his own right. And today I want to ask 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.600 him about failure as we did or the last you know, 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.479 a couple weeks ago with me and Tony. I wanted 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.120 to bring this question to Clay to help me understand 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:18.560 really how he has dealt with failure, how he defines failure, 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.200 how he's become a better deer hunter because of failure. 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.400 Those are the questions I intended to bring to Clay, 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.880 and I can tell you now after having that conversation 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.679 with him, that he took things in a different direction, 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.800 an interesting direction. We do talk about failure in the 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.120 whitetail woods, but I think the more important thing we 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:42.119 ended up discussing was how failure and how we maybe 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.520 experience it and learn about it, possibly in the whitetail 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.320 woods or in hunting and fishing or whatever outdoor pursuit 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:50.800 it is that you have, how that might be applied 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.440 through the rest of your life, and how this can 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.360 inform who you are as a person. So I think 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.640 I'm going to leave it at that. It's a very 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:03.919 interesting conversation. Clay is always has a has a tremendous 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:08.040 amount of wisdom to share, and I've always appreciated that 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:13.360 about him. So today an interesting, a potentially surprising conversation 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.920 with Clay Nucombe about failure and what that means and 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.119 what it might mean for all of us as hunters, 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:29.440 outdoors people, and maybe more generally just as humans. All right, 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.519 joining me on the line is the one and only 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:37.120 the legendary Clay Newcomb. Thanks for being everybody. Hey Mark, 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.840 good Yeah, I'm so glad that we get a chance 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.919 to chat here. And this theme we've got this month 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.480 seemed like a perfect fit for you, Clay, because I 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.600 know you've had so much failure over the years, and 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:52.960 the white Tail's coming. 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.120 The one time, the one time Mark wants me on 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.560 the podcast is all about failure. 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.040 So I'm like, yeah, count me in. I'm in. I'm 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:02.440 your man. 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.800 Well, in all seriousness, it's more that I know you 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.560 are wives, Clay. You are wives, and I think I 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.080 think wisdom, you're generous. I think wisdom is helpful in 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:17.240 dealing with failure. But I want to jump right into 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:21.119 it with you. And the thing that I think would 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:25.040 be most interesting to me right out the gate is 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.040 how you define failure, you know, in the in kind 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.919 of the context of deer hunting. When I like, when 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:33.360 I reached out to you the other day and said, hey, 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:37.240 we're talking about failure, what comes to mind, m. 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:43.960 You know, I mean when you think about the typical 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.160 idea of of failure at the most base level would 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.240 be you have an objective to go hunting and to 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.880 kill a deer and you don't like that, that would 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:58.480 be the first idea that comes to mind. But if 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:03.080 you think like a single second longer and a step further, 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.160 you realize, and anybody that's hunted very much at all, 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:12.200 even someone who's maybe just beginning, you realize that most 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:16.640 of a person's career inside of hunting and time in 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.120 the woods, if the definition of failure is that you're 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:22.279 going to fail a whole lot and not have a 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:27.960 lot of fun, not enjoy it. So I mean, to me, 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:34.160 there's this big blurred picture of a whole lot of 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:41.440 times in the woods that would you your success at 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:45.360 the end would ultimately be this big connection of a 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.479 bunch of individual mistakes that you had made things. 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:50.520 Maybe you didn't make a mistake, but you didn't kill 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:50.840 a deer. 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.400 And so it's I actually struggled a little bit when 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:55.840 you told me what we're going to talk about, not 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.600 because I've not made mistakes. I mean I've made innumerable mistakes, 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:01.640 but they all they all seem one and the same. 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.240 I mean, the mistakes and the success, it's it's all 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.520 like one event. It's like one game. 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.280 It's like a basketball game that you know, the first 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:14.320 quarter second quarter, third quarter, and you you ultimately come 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.760 away with with a victory, which that victory could be 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.040 a big buck on the wall. That victory could also 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:26.919 be just a meaningful time in the natural world. And 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:31.240 so I mean success ultimately starts with what's the definition? 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:33.360 They're like, what are you after? 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:34.440 You know? 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.039 And and the timescale of it. 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:40.640 You know, I mean, sometimes I go hunting and I 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.200 don't even want to kill a deer. 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:43.240 That's rare. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:45.480 But I mean sometimes you go out an afternoon and 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.920 you're just like, man, if I kill a deer, if 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.560 I don't, it's not really consequential. 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:51.920 Yeah, you just want to be out there. 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.680 But most times I go to the woods, the goal 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:57.520 is to kill a deer. 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.680 Do you think that you're thinking on this has changed 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.320 it all from maybe when you were sixteen or twenty 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.880 to where you are now. Do you think that back 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.200 then would would young adult Clay Newcomb have had a 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:11.120 different answer one? 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.120 You know, when I was young, I used to read 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.720 about the stages of the hunter, you know, like you 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:22.240 when you're when early on the focus is on the kill, 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.240 and then as you progress, the focus becomes on the process, 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.640 and later the focus comes on helping others, and I 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.560 had this sense that I would fight that, that I 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.040 would that I would fight that, and that I would 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.799 never because it when you hear that narrative, it sounds 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:46.200 like you lose drive and focus. And as a twenty 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:52.240 year old, that chronology felt like drift from kind of 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.680 what was fun about hunting. But now that I am 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.839 definitely in the middle of life, should I live a 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:07.719 normal lifespan, Uh, I'm less interested in fighting that because 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:11.200 you just change over time and it's good. Like today, 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:16.040 I'm I'm still very focused on mission orientation inside of hunting. 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:20.520 Like there's times and places and seasons where I'm like 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.640 hyper fixated on killing a big deer, just like I 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:28.960 was when I was twenty, But that's not That's not 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.440 the way it is every time I sit in the woods. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.840 There's times when I'm not focused like that at all. 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:43.360 And I'm much more comfortable with with with changing mentalities 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:47.880 about hunting because now I actually feel more diversified than ever. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.840 Like last year when I was hunting in Oklahoma, I 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:54.520 had one goal and that was to kill a big 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.480 old buck with my bow, like cared about nothing else, 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.600 really didn't even care about the method, really didn't even 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:06.040 care about having a great deer camp with people with me. 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.320 But this this was like this short window. So I 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:15.200 can go from that hyper fixated, driven person but also 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.920 go to a family deer camp with a relaxed setting 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:23.200 and no no pressure from the outside. So age, I 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.400 feel like has helped me be I can I can 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.480 be in first gear, I can be in second gear, 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.840 I can be in sixth gear, and I get to pick. 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.120 I mean I'm more in control. 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.959 Okay, you give me hope for my for my middle 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.280 age as well, which I've am. Well, I'm not rapidly 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:46.199 I'm there too, but maybe in denial. But I want 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.520 to unpack this idea a little bit more of these 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.520 different gears and and maybe if we were to talk 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.880 about failure, it's like throwing a wrench into those different gears. Right, So, 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.640 what's the most recent example of failure that you can 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.640 that comes to mind for you related to deer hunting, 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.040 Like the first thing you think about, however you want 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:08.520 to define it. I know you just mentioned there's a 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.200 whole bunch of different ways to define it, but give 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.800 me just unpack for me the most recent example you 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:17.720 can think of of failure for you as a deer hunter. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:19.960 And then I want to kind of explore that example. 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.520 Well, if I'm if I'm being honest with you, just 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:29.760 as you said, Clay, what's a failure, I would go 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:30.760 back to. 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.160 And I'm just going to tell you just what popped 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:39.120 in my mind. Last year. I shot a two year 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:39.600 old deer. 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.280 When I shot, thought that I was shooting at least 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:46.360 a three year old deer, and when I walked up 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:48.680 to it, it was just way younger than I thought. 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.760 And that felt like failure to me, not because of 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:57.520 antler size. It really I really wasn't that concerned about that, 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:04.080 but I would in you know, six gear mode where 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:08.640 I was trying to kill a nice deer and it 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:15.080 was hunting a good place, and uh, basically just got 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:19.040 excited and shot a deer that inside of this, you know, 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.240 the mind frame I was in at the second seemed 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:22.880 like a failure. 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.319 That's one example of failure. 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.640 If you want to talk about that, we can, or 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:31.880 you know, it could give other examples, and. 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:36.800 Let's let's let's examine that one. Did you do any 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.920 kind of self assessment afterwards or thinking like how did 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:42.960 that happen? How'd I mess that up. What did I 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.679 do wrong? How would you answer that in retrospect? 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.200 Just I think I was pressured by time. 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.720 You know, it was the we'd been we'd been we 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:02.280 were we were filming a but we'd been setting for 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.840 four days and basically we had five days, and it 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:08.520 was the biggest buck that I had seen on the trip. 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:14.840 And just the second that I saw the deer from 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.080 sixty seventy yards away, I was just like, I'm shooting 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.520 that deer, and never really when he got up closer, 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:25.000 I knew better. I was like, this deer's not as 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:25.760 big as I think. 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:26.079 He is, but. 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.439 I'm going to shoot this deer. And then after I did, 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.200 I was like, I wish I hadn't shot the deer. 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.400 Do you ever have that experience in moments like that 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.400 where you know, Tony and I were talking about this 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.280 the other day, it kind of feels like you're a 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.040 boulder rolling down the hill, and once that boulder starts rolling, 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:46.839 there's no stopping it. Did you find yourself in that 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.560 kind of moment where there's a brief second where you see, 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.640 like you just mentioned, like you see the roadblock, You're like, ah, 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:56.080 I'm approaching mistake. But it's it's too late to steer 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:57.800 off course. Is that kind of yeah? 0:11:57.840 --> 0:11:58.080 Maybe? 0:11:58.080 --> 0:11:58.160 What? 0:11:58.240 --> 0:11:59.720 Absolutely? Absolutely? 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:06.120 And then after I recognized that I was disappointed, I 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.160 was double disappointed in myself because I was like, why 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.800 I got excited about the deer? When I saw it, 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.640 my heart skipped a beat. It was beautiful, you know, 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.960 I'd found this little pinch point in a place I'd 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:23.000 never hunted, just put up a stand that afternoon. It 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.640 was like November sixth. It was just like the perfect situation. 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.800 I mean, climbed up in the tree, been there an 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:32.240 hour and a half and this. 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:33.000 Buck walks by. 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.520 I mean it was perfect, and that's part of the 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.800 reason I wanted to shoot it. And so then when 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:40.760 I realized that it was probably a two and a 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.600 half year old deer, I was like, why can't I 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.600 just enjoy this? I mean it worked, like, found this 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:51.080 cool pinch point, climbed up a tree, killed a deer. 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:56.560 So I was a little double conflicted. 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.640 You know, And I'm not ready to just throw out 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.400 all constraints with antler size when I hunt. 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:06.720 I'm just not ready to do that. 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.480 I hear guys talk about that, you know, just like, man, 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:11.880 just be happy, shoot the deer you want to shoot. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:16.280 I'm just not quite there yet because I enjoy, I 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.000 do enjoy killing the big deer, and if you're gonna 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.360 kill a big deer, you gotta let some little deer 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:22.120 walk past you. 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:23.240 Sure you know. 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.880 So, I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to excuse me, trying 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:33.680 to play multiple fields inside the deer hunting world where 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.439 you just really enjoy deer hunting but also like to 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:38.200 kill a big buck. 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.880 Yeah, that's I'm there with you too. But it's not 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.880 an easy I don't know if it's an adjustment, but 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:48.680 but it's a fine line to try to walk in 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:50.960 the middle where you try to have some of both. 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.880 And in every different instance, in every different place, every hunt, 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.080 every season, it's it's always gonna be a little bit different. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.599 But that navigating that terrain is tricky. 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.160 It is, and it's the answer has got to be 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:10.840 inside of a person's ability to block out the noise 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:17.959 of every voice in deer hunting around them and recognize 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:26.000 the unique situation that they're inside of. And for instance, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:31.440 maybe this will make sense. On this hunt we were 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.600 I was hunting. It was a piece of private land, 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.320 big piece of private land, that I hadn't been on 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.160 the entire year, just showed up on November the fourth, 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.520 started hunting, didn't have a trail camera out, didn't have anything, 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:48.480 had five days, so there was a lot of there's 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.440 challenge in that, there was some excitement in that didn't 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.800 really know it was on this place. And I killed 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:56.600 this two and a half year old deer on day four, 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.360 coming through this pinch point, middle of the day cruise 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:03.640 and just doing what he's supposed to do. And on 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:09.040 that same piece of property two months later is a 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:18.240 state two buck state. I was drilled into wanting to 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:22.400 kill a big buck and I killed I did kill 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.440 a big buck. I killed a really big buck on 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.760 January fourth over bait over polybate legally in the state. 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.080 And I mean some people, if. 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:37.640 They really knew my whole hunting regimen, there might be 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.680 some people that were like, well, killing that deer without 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.440 trail cameras, just using natural train features in pinch points 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:49.119 with a bow on November the fourth, that is more honorable, 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.640 more noble, shows more woodsmanship than killing the deer over 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:57.440 a polybate on January fourth, and I it was way 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:02.960 harder killing the big buck way harder, took way more. 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.480 Strategy. And this is not defensive bait. 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:13.200 My point is how complex that hunting can be when 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.960 someone's actually trying to get better, learn about deer and 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:22.080 enjoy deer hunting. And that same person could be me 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.320 in the same place on November the fourth and on 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:31.200 January the fourth, and and like if I described that 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:32.800 to somebody, like there were a lot of people that 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:34.800 would be like, oh, yeah, I killed that big deer 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.720 over bait. Anybody could do that, And oh my gosh, 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.880 it was. It was an incredible hunt, absolutely incredible hunt. 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.120 I learned so much about deer. I mean, I could 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.520 tell you that story. But it's contrasted with me by 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.880 this killing a two year old and a pinch point 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:52.000 on November the fourth. 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.719 So you just mentioned these two different examples in how 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.000 one may or may not be more noble than the other, 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.000 or one may or may not have been harder than 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:19.879 the other. But what about this, which do you learn 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.040 more from? You know, I think sometimes we want to 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:27.879 assume that when we succeed, when we win, when we 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.760 get the big buck whatever, that that's what we want, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.000 and that's when we're going to learn something. And that's 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.120 when we grow. But then others might say, actually, it's 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.960 the failure that teaches the most, the ones that got 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.159 away or the time you screwed it all up. Do 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.520 you think you learn more from that quote unquote failure 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.360 earlier or the latter hunt. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.919 It's a good question. I mean, it just depends on 0:17:55.040 --> 0:18:00.680 what we're talking about. In terms of engagement with deer. 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:05.720 I had way more engagement with deer through hunting over 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:11.440 the bait. I mean I saw exponentially more deer, watched them, 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.560 got to see how they came into a situation where 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:20.320 they were nervous, saw how they handled unique variations of 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.200 pressure from wild hogs that were trying to come into 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:29.920 my bait, as well to daytime temperatures being really high 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:34.240 for that time of year two. I mean, it was 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:40.199 pretty fascinating watching how these deer engaged with this hunting. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.560 The four days that it took me to kill the 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:54.080 deer back in November, I learned a lot. I probably 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.280 learned more hunting seeing all the deer, though, to be 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.600 honest with you, I saw way less deer, you know, 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:01.760 just natural train features and whatnot. 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.080 Yeah, So let's let's let's zoom off in a little 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.280 bit and make this a little bit more generically, if 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.679 you had to look back on your whole lifetime of 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:16.560 deer hunting, would you say the greatest lessons learned have 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.400 come from the failures or the wins? Which of those 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.080 would you take? If we if we kind of zoomed 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:22.520 out further. 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:28.480 Well, I once again go back to this idea that 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.119 really they're all one and the same, because a success 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.280 is not killing a big deer is not just a 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.800 one time moment. It's a culmination of a bunch of 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:40.879 experience that leads to this moment. 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.480 But I can say that killing a big deer does 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:48.600 does give you a data point. 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:53.480 Of success that in an inspiration that's hard to erase. Yeah, 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:58.120 Like I mean, I think I think people that, well, 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.160 any any successful hunter at any level, when you are 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.920 successful in taking an animal, there's there's something I think 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:09.160 at the DNA level inside of you that's like success bingo. 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:15.280 I can replicate that. And and man, it's it's hard. 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.560 To say that that's not extremely powerful because it gives 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.520 you inspiration just to go just to go and hunt. 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.520 It gives you inspiration to take off the next year. 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:29.480 It gives you inspiration to save up money to. 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:29.879 Be able to take off. 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:33.520 I mean all these limiting factors really that I think 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.840 are more important than where you put your tree stands 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:36.639 just going. 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.800 I mean, so there's a. 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.280 Mark this, Wow, this is going to get like you 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.679 may be like Clay, were way too in the weeds. 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:52.080 But I'm there's kind of. 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.400 A theme in my life right now on a much 0:20:55.480 --> 0:21:00.600 broader level than just hunting, but about how light and 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:07.240 darkness inside of a person's life ultimately are the same. 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.359 By light and darkness, I mean the good and the bad, 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:12.760 the bad things that happen in your life and the 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.399 good things that happen in your life. It's easy to 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:19.239 segregate them into categories of this was bad and this 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:21.760 was good. And what I'm seeing is that really they're 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:27.639 all connected. And I believe that ultimately the bad stuff 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.960 leads to the good stuff, and so you know, they're 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:35.040 really all connected. I viewed deer hunting that way. I mean, 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:36.800 all the times I got winded, all the times I 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:42.520 made bad mistakes are connected to the ultimate victory at 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:42.880 the end. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:50.280 Is there any one deer hunt over your recent lifetime 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.560 that you can think of that illustrates that concept? The 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:56.280 best that illustrates this idea that the good and the 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.720 bad are one and the same, that the dark in 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.440 the light can lead to this same place in the end. 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:07.600 Is there any failure or situation that first felt like failure, 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:11.320 seemed like it that ultimately you're like, oh wow, actually 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:12.600 it was this. 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:14.160 Does anything come to mind? 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:21.720 M You know, I don't have a real poignant story 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:26.440 on that mark. I mean, I just think, how often 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:27.320 do you kill a. 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:29.760 Big deer that you're like, I knew that was going 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:30.280 to happen. 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:34.520 Most of the time you're like, man, I can't believe 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:35.360 that just happened. 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:36.600 Yeah, you know so. 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:43.679 I mean, I just think about the big deer that 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:47.800 I killed this year. I really didn't think it was 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:49.760 going to happen. I got pictures of this deer. It 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.720 was coming in at night, it was very sporadic, and 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.080 it was just like, man, this guy's going to be 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:58.159 hard to hunt. And then when I finally did kill him, 0:22:58.200 --> 0:22:59.720 I just almost couldn't believe it. 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:01.640 No, I don't have a great story. 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:03.920 I don't, man, I wish I did, all right, I 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:07.240 haven't put it together yet if I do, But that's okay. 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:10.760 Let me let me throw another Let me throw something 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:13.800 else at you then and just dig you in even deeper. 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:21.720 Let's talk about pain, the most painful moment in your 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:25.240 deer hunting life where you screwed something up, or you 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.879 made a bad choice, or things went the complete opposite 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:31.520 of the way you wanted it to, or where you 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:36.840 felt the most guilty or the most inadequate or the like. 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:42.160 I don't know like any one of those things. Does 0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:46.480 any one moment fit that criteria, because that's something I'm 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:49.280 interested in exploring too, And I recognize that a lot 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:51.320 of those moments where you feel that way in that 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:55.280 moment can change to later feeling differently, And maybe we 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:57.880 can talk about that. But give me an example like that, 0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:01.359 where in that moment you thought, man, your deer hunting 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:02.440