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Speaker 1: On May thirteenth, twenty fifteen, Jose Dejus de Nissagun had

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Speaker 1: a birthday party. It was small, just his parents and

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Speaker 1: some family and friends. They celebrated on the back patio

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Speaker 1: of their modest home on an isolated stretch of coast

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Speaker 1: in central Mexico. Jose de Jesus was turning thirty one

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Speaker 1: years old. They were celebrating a birthday, but they were

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Speaker 1: also saying goodbye. The day after the party, Jose would

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Speaker 1: take a plane and a bus to the Mexican border

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Speaker 1: and then attempt to cross the desert into the United States.

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Speaker 1: His goal was to reunite with his three young children,

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Speaker 1: who lived in Las Vegas with their mother. Jose missed

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Speaker 1: them terribly and for years he had dreamed of being

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Speaker 1: near them again. But just seven days after his party,

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Speaker 1: Jose was dead in a US immigration detention center. It

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Speaker 1: was a suicide, a suicide by asphyxiation to.

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Speaker 2: Be more precise.

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Speaker 1: During the autopsy, the medical examiner found lodged deep in

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Speaker 1: Jose's throat a bunched up orange sock. Jose had been

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Speaker 1: in the Elloyd Detention Center in Arizona for just three days.

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Speaker 1: He didn't have a history of mental illness according to

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Speaker 1: his family, and he was coming to the US with

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Speaker 1: a purpose to be with his kids.

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Speaker 2: So what happened?

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Speaker 1: From Futuro Media, It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria ino Josa.

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Speaker 1: Over the course of almost a year, from twenty fifteen

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Speaker 1: through twenty sixteen, producers Marlon Bishop, Fernando Charari, and I

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Speaker 1: reported on the circumstances around Jose de Jsu's unusual death,

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Speaker 1: and you'll be hearing the three of us narrating this story.

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Speaker 1: We took trips all over the country and in Mexico,

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Speaker 1: conducted dozens of interviews, and poured through government documents in

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Speaker 1: an attempt to understand just what happened to Hose de Hissus.

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Speaker 1: It was quite a different time in our country. President

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Speaker 1: Obama was still in the White House and there was

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Speaker 1: far less national media attention on immigration and the detention system.

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Speaker 1: But what we uncovered about how detention works and why

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Speaker 1: migrants are dying in detention is more relevant now than ever.

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Speaker 1: About forty people have died in detention since President Trump

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Speaker 1: took office, bringing the total to over two hundred since

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three, and now, during the coronavirus outbreak,

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Speaker 1: detainees are more vulnerable than ever due to poor medical

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Speaker 1: care inside the detention facilities. Already, several detainees have died

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Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen. So we're going to bring back our

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Speaker 1: two part radio documentary aired in twenty sixteen. It's the

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Speaker 1: story of the life and death of one immigrant detainee,

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Speaker 1: and we're asking the questions, why did Jose Dejsues die

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Speaker 1: in custody of the United States in such a strange

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Speaker 1: way and what does his death tell us about conditions

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Speaker 1: inside immigration detention facilities. We first heard about this story

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Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen while Marlon and I were on a

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Speaker 1: reporting trip in Phoenix, Arizona.

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Speaker 3: Head west on West Elm Street toward North nineteen then

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Speaker 3: turned right out to North nineteenth Avenue.

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Speaker 4: It was the height of summer.

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Speaker 2: What is the what is the temperature reading right now

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Speaker 2: on It says one.

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Speaker 4: Oh five on the car If we're to believe it,

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Speaker 4: that's pretty high.

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Speaker 1: We've been in touch with an immigrant advocacy group called

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Speaker 1: PINE and they invited us to their office.

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Speaker 4: They invited us because something weird was going on and

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Speaker 4: it had to do with Jose.

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Speaker 5: We started getting letters from the Eloid detention center anonymous letters.

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Speaker 5: People are obviously scared.

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Speaker 1: This is Francisca Borias. She's the organizing director at Bwinde.

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Speaker 5: It literally happened right after his death. Right after his

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Speaker 5: death was on May twentieth, and probably early June is

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Speaker 5: when we started getting letters, and then we were like, Okay,

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Speaker 5: something's gonna like something's happening.

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Speaker 4: Puente is one of the main groups in the area

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Speaker 4: that helps immigrants and detention get legal representation, so people

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Speaker 4: on the inside note to contact them when something comes up.

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Speaker 6: And for a little context, the people inside attention range

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Speaker 6: from those who were caught crossing the border recently to

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Speaker 6: people who have been living in the US for decades

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Speaker 6: and maybe their immigration status came up during a traffic

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Speaker 6: stop or a workplace. Right The people that are in

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Speaker 6: detention are either waiting to be deported or they're waiting

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Speaker 6: for a court date to find out if they can

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Speaker 6: stay one.

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Speaker 4: They gets letters from detainees all the time, but they

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Speaker 4: had never received so many letters before. Dozens. They were

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Speaker 4: filled with accounts of Jose's death.

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Speaker 1: Do you have the letters here?

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Speaker 5: Let me look at my desk.

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Speaker 4: That's a lot of letters.

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Speaker 1: So this is May twenty six.

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Speaker 7: Here Hosa Sagon got thrown into a cell and a

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Speaker 7: building Bravo six hundred like an animal. They ripped his

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Speaker 7: clothes off, did not give him a mattress until around

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Speaker 7: ten pm. All he was asking was a phone call

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Speaker 7: to his family or lawyer, which never happened. He was ignored,

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Speaker 7: like if he wasn't even there. He was so stressed

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Speaker 7: and desperate at that point.

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Speaker 1: So he continued saying he was so stressed and desperate

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Speaker 1: at that point that it pushed him to commit suicide.

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Speaker 1: I believe Jose Sai Wound's death could have been prevented,

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Speaker 1: just like other previous deaths that Alloyd Detention Center has had.

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Speaker 1: In other letters, several detainees wrote that they heard screaming

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Speaker 1: coming from hose cell and believed he was beaten up

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Speaker 1: by guards. One wrote that Jose was tasered in pepper sprayed,

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Speaker 1: but all of them suggested that he was mistreated in detention.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to know for sure which, if any, of

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Speaker 4: the accounts were first hand and which were rumors to

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Speaker 4: kind that fly through the detention center when big things happen,

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Speaker 4: but it was clear that detainees at Eloy were upset

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Speaker 4: and freaked out. Because nobody at the detention center was

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Speaker 4: telling them what was going on.

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Speaker 1: Then a week later, some detainees said they went on

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Speaker 1: a hunger strike to protest the conditions inside Eloit and

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Speaker 1: to protest Jose's death.

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Speaker 4: All of it was a sign that people inside the

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Speaker 4: detention center wanted to be heard.

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Speaker 5: These letters get opened before we get them, and so

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Speaker 5: that's how we know there's a serious case here to investigate.

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Speaker 5: If people are both putting themselves out there and putting

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Speaker 5: their bodies on the line through a hunger strike, so

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Speaker 5: I want there to be a real investigation.

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Speaker 6: People outside the detention center were also talking about the

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Speaker 6: unusual way that Jose had died. One Democratic congressman from

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Speaker 6: Tucson even called for the US Department of Justice to

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Speaker 6: investigate his death while activists protested recent detainees deaths. The

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Speaker 6: men started the hunger strike this morning.

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Speaker 4: Then protesters say they were kept outside.

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Speaker 6: In the heat by doors as retaliation, But at the

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Speaker 6: time ICE officials weren't saying much.

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Speaker 1: ICE stands for Immigration and Customs Enforcement. It's the government

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Speaker 1: agency that is charged with detaining and deporting immigrants. And

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Speaker 1: remember that acronym because it's going to come up a lot.

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Speaker 6: During this episode, all they had said was that I'm

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Speaker 6: the man died inside the Eloid Detention Center because of

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Speaker 6: unknown causes. Then weeks later, ICE released another statement saying

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Speaker 6: that a medical examiner ruled Jose's death a suicide.

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Speaker 4: Hither for an interview with doctor Chess. A month and

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Speaker 4: a half after Hose's death, I visited doctor Gregory Hess.

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Speaker 4: He's the medical examiner from Pema County, Arizona, who performed

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Speaker 4: the autopsy and reviewed Hosse's file from when he was detained.

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Speaker 8: He was having what they were describing as delusional thoughts,

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Speaker 8: so he was trying to bang his head against the wall,

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Speaker 8: saying people were going to kill him. I'm just kind

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Speaker 8: of bizarre behavior, and he was seen by a psychologist

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Speaker 8: at that facility who put him on a constant suicide

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Speaker 8: watch for about a day.

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Speaker 1: This was just the second day Josse was in the

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Speaker 1: detention center. He was locked up in a room alone

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Speaker 1: with a guard watching him at all times. On the

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Speaker 1: third day, the day he died, he was no longer

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Speaker 1: on suicide watch and was under far less supervision.

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Speaker 6: Doctor Hes, by the way, works for the county. He's

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Speaker 6: not connected to ICE or to the private company that

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Speaker 6: runs the eloid detention center.

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Speaker 4: Doctor Hess found a few things during the autopsy. He

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Speaker 4: discovered what the autopsy report called, quote blunt force injuries

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Speaker 4: to the head. He says he doesn't know when those injuries.

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Speaker 8: Occurred, whether it was during his episode of bizarre behavior,

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Speaker 8: whether or not he was being restrained by corrections officials,

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Speaker 8: whether or not he received that somehow crossing the border

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Speaker 8: in the first place.

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Speaker 6: But he says it wasn't serious. Essentially a bruce or

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Speaker 6: a bump on the head.

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Speaker 8: It doesn't have anything to do with his death.

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Speaker 6: It's worth noting that doctor Hess also read in Jose's

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Speaker 6: file that he was quote restrained by guards, which could

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Speaker 6: mean anything from being handcuffed to a more intense physical encounter.

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Speaker 1: Doctor has also found a white plastic candle about four

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Speaker 1: inches long inside Hosse's stomach. It appeared to be part

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Speaker 1: of a toothbrush.

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Speaker 8: In my opinion, he probably consumed that toothbrush prior to

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Speaker 8: the sock, with a thought that if I consume this

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Speaker 8: it will it may kill me.

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Speaker 4: Last, and most importantly, he found the sock, a bright orange,

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Speaker 4: knee high thick prison sock.

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Speaker 8: The sock was bunched up, but essentially it was molded

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Speaker 8: into the esophagus, so imagine he had to work to

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Speaker 8: make that happen a little bit. So essentially that sock

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Speaker 8: was was distending and impacted within the esophagus. The most

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Speaker 8: of the sock was including the entrance to the trichea,

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Speaker 8: so basically what that is is choking.

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Speaker 4: The autopsy found there were no drugs in hose system,

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Speaker 4: nor any other medical problems that could have led to

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Speaker 4: his death, and so after looking at the evidence, doctor

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Speaker 4: Hess certified Jose's death a suicide by asphyxiation.

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Speaker 2: With a sock.

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Speaker 1: And for many people we spoke to in the immigrant

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Speaker 1: advocacy community and detainees at ELOI, the sock was suspicious

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Speaker 1: a part of the story that didn't add up to

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Speaker 1: them because it's hard to imagine that anybody could die

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Speaker 1: that way.

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Speaker 4: He has never seen a case like this before, but

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Speaker 4: he cautioned against thinking it's impossible.

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Speaker 8: It's difficult to look at people that commit suicide after

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Speaker 8: the fact and then rationalize actions. Why would they not

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Speaker 8: hang themselves instead? You know, I have no idea. Oftentimes

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Speaker 8: suicides are people that aren't thinking clearly because they have

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Speaker 8: depression they have psychiatric illness, they may be on substances.

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Speaker 8: I have no idea what this individual's past medical history was,

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Speaker 8: but I'm sure being apprehended and thrown into a facility

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Speaker 8: can be stressing, and maybe that's the way he reacted.

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Speaker 4: Is there any medical possibility that this man was murdered. No, so,

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Speaker 4: what we know so far is that the medical evidence

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Speaker 4: shows that Hose the Hissus died by suicide after choking

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Speaker 4: on a knee soak. But we still had other questions.

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Speaker 1: How could this happen just three days after entering the

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Speaker 1: Elloyd Detention Center and who was Jose DeJesus. To answer

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Speaker 1: that question, we had to meet the Denis Sagoon family.

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Speaker 1: Stay with usas Welcome back to this special edition of

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Speaker 1: Latino USA. I'm Marie no Josa with producers Nanda Charari

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Speaker 1: and Marlon Bishop.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm recording. Where are we?

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Speaker 2: We are in a cab now.

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Speaker 1: We just landed in Las Vegas and we're on our

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Speaker 1: way to meet the family of Jose Dejsus Sagoon that

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Speaker 1: has agreed to speak with us. And for me, honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's a very it's a it's an uncomfortable feeling it's

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Speaker 1: going to be really hard.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so too.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would hate to think, like if my son,

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Speaker 1: if something happened to my son in a foreign country,

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Speaker 1: that then I'd have to come back and try to

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Speaker 1: piece it together. About a month and a half after

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Speaker 1: the death of Osse Dejsus, we visited Las Vegas, where

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Speaker 1: his brother and sister live. His parents, who live in Mexico,

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Speaker 1: had flown up to Vegas to spend some time with

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Speaker 1: the family after the tragedy.

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Speaker 4: Our taxi pulls into a brand new looking suburban subdivision

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Speaker 4: and we get out at a handsome ranch house. You ready.

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Speaker 1: Joss's brother Gabriel opens the door and invites us Innis Somananis.

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Speaker 1: The family is seated at the kitchen table eating takeout.

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Speaker 1: We're greeted by Jose's father, Silverio, a man with sad

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Speaker 1: eyes and a big silver mustache.

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Speaker 4: He says the pain they're feeling is deep, and over

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Speaker 4: the course of several hours, the family shares Jose's story.

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Speaker 1: Silvererio and his wife Elisa managed a small hotel on

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Speaker 1: the coast of Mexico, and their kids grew up on

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Speaker 1: the grounds. Jose was the second oldest His nickname in

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Speaker 1: the family was Pecoso because of his freckles.

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Speaker 9: He was that kind of brother that he used to

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Speaker 9: protect us from everything or anything.

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Speaker 6: Gabriel is five years younger than Jose, and he looked

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Speaker 6: up to his big brother.

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Speaker 9: He was kind, he have a good heart, and he

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Speaker 9: was brave on his life.

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Speaker 4: When Jose de Hesu's turned nineteen, like many young men

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Speaker 4: from his little town, he decided to try his luck

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Speaker 4: in the US. He came without papers and found work

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Speaker 4: as a plumber here in Las Vegas.

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Speaker 9: He wish he can be born in this country. He

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Speaker 9: always used to say that I want to be American.

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Speaker 9: I don't know why I am born in Mexico.

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Speaker 1: Jose met a woman here and they had three kids.

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Speaker 1: But seven years after Jose arrived in the state, his father,

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Speaker 1: seen Video, became very sick with a heart condition. They

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Speaker 1: weren't sure if he would live much longer, and Jose

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Speaker 1: returned to Mexico so they could spend some time together.

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Speaker 6: His girlfriend and kids came with him to Mexico. There

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Speaker 6: they got married, but the relationship soured quickly, so his

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Speaker 6: wife and kids went back to Vegas. They had legal

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Speaker 6: status in the US, but Jose didn't.

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Speaker 9: My brother was stuck in Mexico, always trying to come

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Speaker 9: back to fight for his kids.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 4: For five years, Jose lived with his parents in Mexico,

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Speaker 4: doing odd jobs to help his dad and dreaming of

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Speaker 4: reuniting with his kids. By that point, his brother and

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Speaker 4: sister had moved to the US. He missed them a

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Speaker 4: lot too. The siblings stayed in touch on Facebook sharing photos.

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Speaker 2: Yes, these are great photographs.

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Speaker 1: So this is a photograph of Jose dejess who's doing

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Speaker 1: a headstand on the with the ocean right next to him,

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Speaker 1: and his little boy doing a headstand right next to

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Speaker 1: him as well. In the photos we see a man

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Speaker 1: with short, dark brown hair, light skin, and green eyes.

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Speaker 1: Often Jose wears a closely trimmed beard and a chain

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Speaker 1: around his neck with a cross on it. His siblings

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Speaker 1: describe him as a jokester and something of a ham.

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Speaker 4: In the years he was living back in Mexico, Jose

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Speaker 4: tried to cross the border to get back into the

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Speaker 4: States twice. Both times he was caught and deported. Then,

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Speaker 4: in May twenty fifteen, the day after his thirty first birthday,

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Speaker 4: he decided to try again.

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Speaker 10: Jord Longo lotengo bim presente kiss thing.

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Speaker 1: The first step was to take a plane to get

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Speaker 1: close to the border. Sint Verrio gave Jose a lift

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Speaker 1: to the airport. It was the last time he saw

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Speaker 1: his son, and he remembers it very clearly. Mbez. He

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Speaker 1: told to go with God and with the Virgin and

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Speaker 1: gave him a kiss on the forehead in medio Papa,

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Speaker 1: I love you very much, dad, Jose told him, and

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Speaker 1: then with a hug and a kiss off he went.

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Speaker 6: Josef Lutuemosillo in the north of Mexico. His family paid

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Speaker 6: for the services of a coyote, as smugglers who guide

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Speaker 6: immigrants across the border are known, and the smuggler took

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Speaker 6: him to a safe house in Awaprieta, just across the

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Speaker 6: border from Arizona. There they'd wait for the right moment

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Speaker 6: to walk through the desert into the US and.

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Speaker 4: Just to zoom out for a second. Crossing the border

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Speaker 4: is a really, really dangerous thing to do. The coyotes

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Speaker 4: job is to get their people across, but there are

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Speaker 4: all kinds of things that can happen. There's the natural

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Speaker 4: dangers of dehydration and getting lost in the desert. And

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00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,679
Speaker 4: then there's the human dangers cartels and gang members who

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Speaker 4: seek to rip off migrants, corrupt cops and border towns,

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Speaker 4: bad coyotes who double crossed the people they're ferrying across.

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00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,719
Speaker 4: For female migrants, sexual assaults are really common. Sometimes everything

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Speaker 4: works out fine, other times it doesn't.

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Speaker 6: And in jo Say's case, something goes very wrong at

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Speaker 6: the border, and this is where things start to get

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00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,399
Speaker 6: confusing to piece together.

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Speaker 4: The day after he leaves home Friday night, around midnight, Rosario,

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Speaker 4: that's Jose's sister in Las Vegas, she gets a call

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Speaker 4: from her brother.

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Speaker 11: Helas this dormi.

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00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,800
Speaker 6: Josset tells her they're about to cross the border earlier

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Speaker 6: than expected. She says, great, call me when you get

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Speaker 6: to Phoenix and we'll come pick you up.

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Speaker 4: Then over the phone, she hears an argument between two

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Speaker 4: people yelling as to those persona.

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Speaker 6: Somebody mentions a commandante, a commander, but she can't really

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Speaker 6: hear what they're saying.

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Speaker 4: The call drops. Five minutes later, Jose calls her back

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Speaker 4: and now he's running and saying the smuggler wanted to

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Speaker 4: kill him, and he said, sounds really panicked. She's never

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00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 4: heard him sound so scared in her life. While they're

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Speaker 4: on the phone, he flags down a car and offers

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Speaker 4: the driver money to take him to the official border

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Speaker 4: checkpoint there. While he's still on the phone with his sister,

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Speaker 4: he runs up to US border patrol and hands himself in,

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Speaker 4: saying he needs protection.

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Speaker 1: So you felt like he was going to be safe

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Speaker 1: because he was in American agent's hands.

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Speaker 4: That was my first thing.

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Speaker 9: He was in good hands. Looks after that, we can

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00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 9: get a lawyer or do something, take him to court,

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Speaker 9: or whatever we can.

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Speaker 4: Do for him.

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Speaker 6: In the morning, their mom in Mexico gets a call

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Speaker 6: from the smuggler with a different story. He tells her

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00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,199
Speaker 6: that Jose disappeared. He said he was going out to

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Speaker 6: the store to get some juice and never came back.

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Speaker 4: Whatever happened, Jose ends up in US custody near the border.

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00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,159
Speaker 4: We know that much. Then two days later, on Monday morning,

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Speaker 4: Rosario gets another call from her brother. He tells her

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Speaker 4: he's been taken to the Elloyd detention set a few

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Speaker 4: hours north in Arizona.

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Speaker 1: When he calls you, what did he sound like, blas,

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00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 1: she says, he sounded excited to be in the US,

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Speaker 1: but was anxious to get out of detention. She tells

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Speaker 1: him be patient, We're going to find a lawyer and

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Speaker 1: we're going to get you out.

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Speaker 4: Over the next two days, Gabrielle and Rosadio call the

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00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 4: detention center several times, hoping to check up on their brother,

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00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 4: but they're never able to speak with him. They're told

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Speaker 4: that they have to first put money on an account

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Speaker 4: for him, then wait a while, and then Jose can

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Speaker 4: call them.

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Speaker 6: What they're not told is that he was acting bizarrely,

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Speaker 6: or that he was seen by a psychiatrist, or that

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Speaker 6: he was put on suicide watch.

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Speaker 4: According to the accounts of other detainees, Jose at this

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00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,439
Speaker 4: point is desperate to talk to his family. At the

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00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 4: same time, all his family wants to do is to

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Speaker 4: talk to him, but it doesn't happen.

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Speaker 1: The last time his siblings try to call is on Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: The same afternoon, Jose dies.

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Speaker 9: Right after five, and I call it at attention center

365
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 9: asking for my brother, and the guy goes like, oh,

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00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 9: hold on, you can't talk to him right now. You

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00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 9: got a callback tomorrow between seventy three. The next morning,

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00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 9: she hera caw from the Mexican consul saying that they

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Speaker 9: found my brother dead in his sail.

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Speaker 6: In shock, Gabrielle and Rosario drive straight from Las Vegas

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Speaker 6: to Tucson, where Jose's body is being held. They retrieve

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Speaker 6: it and hold awake in a local funeral home.

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Speaker 1: Seeing her brother lying in the coffin, Rosario was overcome.

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Speaker 1: She says she leaned over the casket and spoke to him.

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Speaker 1: What did they do to you? She said, why didn't

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Speaker 1: you defend yourself?

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Speaker 2: How come you didn't wait for me?

378
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 4: No, miss pan As.

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Speaker 1: Forgive me brother for having failed you.

380
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Speaker 12: They got you in it Portia, hear other mano.

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Speaker 4: After hearing the story from the family, we didn't know

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00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 4: what to think. On one hand, his behavior at the

383
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 4: border sounds erradic You know, he's running, he's panicked, he's

384
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 4: yelling on the phone to his sister that the coyote

385
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 4: wants to kill him. And remember, according to the documents

386
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 4: reviewed by the medical Examiner, he was acting strangely in

387
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 4: the tension a few days later. So it's possible that

388
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 4: Jose de Jessus was having some kind of paranoid episode

389
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 4: at the border. But on the other hand, it's totally plausible,

390
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 4: given the realities of crossing the border, that somebody actually

391
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 4: was trying to kill him, So maybe he was acting

392
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 4: rationally and US authorities thought he was crazy when he

393
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 4: was really just scared.

394
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Speaker 6: As for the events after he was in US custody,

395
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 6: the family has even less information. They just don't know

396
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 6: much about what went on inside the Eloid Detention Center

397
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 6: on the days leading up to his death.

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Speaker 11: We needed truth.

399
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 4: We need to see their recording tapes. That's what we want,

400
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 4: the recording tapes.

401
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 1: Gabella is talking about surveillance footage. He knows the medical

402
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: examiner watched is video that could have major clues as

403
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: to what happened to Jose. But getting those tapes won't

404
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:18,959
Speaker 1: be so easy.

405
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 4: Technically, anybody can ask a government agency for things like

406
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 4: documents or videos, and the government is supposed to try

407
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 4: and fill those requests, and that's because of transparency laws.

408
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 4: One of those laws is called the Freedom of Information

409
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 4: Act or FOYA for sure.

410
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 6: So in this case, we wrote up a few foyas.

411
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 6: We asked Eyes for all documents relating to Hose's case,

412
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 6: video of his last day and attention, a list of

413
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 6: staff working at Eloy at the time, and some other stuff.

414
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 6: And then we waited.

415
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: Because usually these public record requests take a long time

416
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: to fill.

417
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 6: And sometimes the government ends up either denying these requests

418
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 6: or severely redacting what they give you, leaving reporters and

419
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 6: families with unanswered questions.

420
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 4: And the lack of transparency is especially problem for facilities

421
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 4: that are run by private companies. You've probably heard of

422
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 4: the private prison industry. For decades, the government has been

423
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 4: contracting out correctional services that is the work of imprisoning

424
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 4: people for criminal violations, to private companies, companies that staff

425
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 4: and build and operate prisons. That's also true for immigrant attention,

426
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 4: and they're the same companies doing both.

427
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 6: So immigrant attention is like prison in a lot of ways.

428
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 6: When you arrive, your strip search, fingerprinted, given a uniform,

429
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 6: and taken to a cell. But unlike prisons, the people

430
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 6: inside are held because of immigration violations, which are not

431
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 6: criminal charges. They haven't been found guilty in a courtroom

432
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 6: or been given a sentence. Here's Grace meng, a senior

433
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 6: researcher at Human Rights Watch.

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Speaker 13: Because it's not like a criminal justice system, in some ways,

435
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 13: it can be more traumatic. It is indefinite, there's no sentence.

436
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 13: People have told me if I knew when I was

437
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 13: getting out, that would be one thing, but I don't

438
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 13: know when I'm going to get out.

439
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 6: Some detension last a couple of weeks, for others it's

440
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 6: months or even years.

441
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 13: I'm at a mat a couple of weeks ago who

442
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 13: spent nine years and four months in immigration dettension fighting

443
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 13: his case, and the psychological toll is enormous.

444
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 6: And what makes this more challenging is having to navigate

445
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 6: this whole process without a lawyer.

446
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,239
Speaker 14: Unlike in the criminal context, an individual who's in our

447
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 14: custody is not entitled to free legal services.

448
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: That's Liz Cityopreta. She's a high ranking official within Ice

449
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: cityop Aida says that people who are in ice custody

450
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: have to either hire someone to represent them, find a

451
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: pro bono lawyer, or try to represent themselves.

452
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 14: These are civil immigration proceedings, not criminal proceedings, and therefore

453
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 14: no constitutional right to counsel.

454
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 4: So immigrant detainees don't have many of the same rights

455
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 4: as prisoners in the criminal system. That's maybe why so

456
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 4: many of them end up staying in detention longer than

457
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 4: they should.

458
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: And at the time we originally produced this report, I

459
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: says over three hundred thousand people went through the detention

460
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: system yearly.

461
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 14: It's a difficult thing to manage alone, and we depend

462
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 14: on vendors who can provide the services that we need

463
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 14: to accommodate all of those varying needs from the global

464
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 14: population which we hold in our custody.

465
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 11: Our destination, the best full service adult correction system. Our

466
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 11: vision is our motivation.

467
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: This is sound from a promotional video for one of

468
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: those vendors, CCA, the Corrections Corporation of America, which runs

469
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: the Elloy Detention Center.

470
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 6: CCA, which has since changed its name to core Civic,

471
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 6: is one of the largest private prison corporations running detention

472
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 6: centers for ICE. The government spends somewhere between seventy and

473
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 6: one hundred and twenty dollars a night for every detaining

474
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 6: day hold.

475
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 11: Think of seventeen thousand employees.

476
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: We combine the accountability of government with the efficiency of business.

477
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,719
Speaker 15: People in the detention centers sort of knew that ELOI

478
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 15: was the worst of the worst.

479
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: This is Victoria Lopez. She's a lawyer for the ACO

480
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: in Phoenix and works a lot with immigrants and detention.

481
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 15: At ELOI, constant complaints about medical care, mental health care

482
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 15: being placed in segregation without knowing why or knowing when

483
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 15: you'd get out.

484
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 6: We should mention that we requested an interview with CCA,

485
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 6: but we're denied that. Instead, CCA officials said that they

486
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 6: would respond to some questions in writing, so we sent

487
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 6: questions but got no response.

488
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: Despite its reputation, Eloy has passed all of ICE's compliance

489
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: tests that are supposed to make sure everything is going

490
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: well and that the detention center is meeting basic standards.

491
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 6: Yet Eloy is also the detention center that has had

492
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 6: the most deaths.

493
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 15: It's in the middle of the desert in Arizona. It's

494
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 15: one of these places where you're just driving in the

495
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 15: desert and all of a sudden you see this massive

496
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 15: prison in the middle of the desert landscape ten south.

497
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: A few months after Jose's death, Marlon and I paid

498
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: a visit to the Eloy Detention Center to get a

499
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: sense of what it's like to be detained there.

500
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 4: The actual town of Eloi is about an hour outside

501
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,719
Speaker 4: of Phoenix, and basically it's a tiny company town for CCA.

502
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 4: There are three CIA prisons in Eloi in addition to

503
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 4: the detention center, including one that holds almost all of

504
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 4: the male prisoners from Hawaii. Yeah, if you're a man

505
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 4: convicted of a crime in Hawaii, you might get put

506
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 4: on a plane and flow into this little town in Arizona.

507
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: We arrive at the Eloy Immigrant Detention Center, enter through

508
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: a large chain link gate, and walk into a building

509
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: where visitors are received.

510
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 4: After Jose's death, reporters were asking to come in and

511
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 4: see what was going on, including us, and so Ice

512
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 4: arranged for us to take part in a press.

513
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: Tour, a very tightly controlled press tour.

514
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 4: Yes, the rules were strict. No talking with detainees, no

515
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 4: photos of anyone above the waist, and no recording or

516
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 4: quoting the comments of any government or CCA employment. Over

517
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 4: the course of several hours, they lead us through the

518
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 4: spaces typical of what you'd imagine in a high security prison.

519
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: Trab, gray, cement buildings two stories high, and fencing and.

520
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: Razor wire everywhere.

521
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 11: Literally everywhere.

522
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 4: They took us to the so called tanks where the

523
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 4: tamies live, cement floor, the wreck.

524
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: Yard, a couple of basketball nets.

525
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 4: The chow hal mush, the commissary.

526
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: There's salt and pepper, McCormick hot taco seasoning.

527
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 4: And what was really eerie about being there was looking

528
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 4: at people's feet because everyone was wearing identical thick orange socks,

529
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 4: the same type Jose choked on.

530
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: And what was more striking was something that happened in

531
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: the parking lot. We met a woman named Susie Morales.

532
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: She was there to pick up her elderly grandmother who

533
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: was inside the detention stage.

534
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 16: Old my grandma, and she's diabetic, slightly goin blindness. Why

535
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 16: they decided to let her go because they thought that

536
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 16: someone with in that high ended age they shouldn't. She

537
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 16: shouldn't be here.

538
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 11: It's just overwhelming.

539
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 16: It's a place you don't want to see your grandma

540
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 16: ind because you think the worst. You think that she's

541
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 16: behind bars when she's never committed anything.

542
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 4: And that's the thing that was most striking about being

543
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 4: in Eloy. For all intents and purposes, it's this intimidating prison.

544
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 4: Yet looking around, I was really aware that the people

545
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 4: I was seeing weren't violent criminals. I mean, yes, some

546
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 4: do have criminal records, there's no doubt about that, but

547
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 4: a lot of them don't. And so I couldn't help

548
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 4: but think about Jose, who didn't have a criminal record,

549
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 4: showed up at the border asking for help and ended

550
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 4: up here.

551
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: After the tour, we were allowed to interview two detainees briefly.

552
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: They didn't witness Josse his death, so we didn't learn

553
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: much from them. But before we left, we passed them

554
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: a piece of paper with our phone numbers on it,

555
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: and we asked them, if you hear of anyone that

556
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: has any information about Jose, let us know.

557
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 4: So the tour ends, we go back home to New York.

558
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 4: Months go by, and then one day I get this

559
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 4: text message. It was kind of a reporter's dream.

560
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 6: It just said in Spanish, my name is Juan Castillo Peis.

561
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 6: I witnessed the death of Jose Jesu's de Nis Sagon.

562
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 4: Please call me so right away, Fernanda and I called him. Hello.

563
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino USA, we meet the man who

564
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: sent us that mysterious text message.

565
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: Not the bias.

566
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: Welcome back to this special edition of Latino USA. I'm

567
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: Marieojosa with producers Marlon Bishop and Fernando Chavari.

568
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 6: When we left off, we had just gotten a text

569
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 6: message from an unknown number. It was a man named

570
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 6: Juan Castillo Peris, saying he had witnessed the death of

571
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 6: Jose de Jesus.

572
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 4: So right away Fernanda and I call him hello. Castillo

573
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 4: One tells us he was in the medical unit recovering

574
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 4: from a broken leg in a room directly across from Jose.

575
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 4: He since has been deported back to Mexico. He says

576
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 4: he used to work as a police detective in Central

577
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 4: Mexico back in the day, and he kind of talks

578
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 4: like a no nonsense detective from an old movie.

579
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 6: Kwan tells us that he was probably the last person

580
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 6: to ever speak with Jose. He says a few hours

581
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 6: before his death, Jose was escorted out of his locked

582
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 6: room and taken to the shower. That's when the two

583
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 6: of them briefly talked. Juan told Jose to cheer up

584
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 6: because he had heard Jose make comments about wanting to die,

585
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 6: so Juan told him to be careful with those thoughts,

586
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 6: that he was young and that life was worth living, and.

587
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 4: He says Jose responded with a sort of don't worry,

588
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 4: Everything's cool. Juan says he was there when the guards

589
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 4: noticed Jose was inside his cell and not responding.

590
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 6: He remembers hearing a guard call out Jose's name and

591
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 6: bang on his door during one of the checkups, and

592
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 6: After a few minutes, that guard called for help on

593
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 6: the radio. That's when Juan and the other detainees were

594
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 6: asked to go back in their cells.

595
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 4: Juan thinks that Jose should not have been taken off

596
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 4: suicide watch.

597
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 6: If Jose had been monitored twenty four to seven, he says,

598
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 6: maybe he wouldn't have killed himself. And Juan tells us

599
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 6: something else that we hadn't heard yet, that the guards

600
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 6: responded too slowly, that they could have saved Hose.

601
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 4: Okay, so so far in our reporting, we have a

602
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 4: witness that says Jose could have been saved if the

603
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 4: medical response was faster. We have detaining letters that claim

604
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 4: that Jose was heard screaming and suggests that maybe he

605
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 4: was mistreated inside the detention center. And we have the

606
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 4: phone calls Jose made to his sister in the desert

607
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 4: that paint a picture, an incomplete one, but a picture

608
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 4: of what happened at the border.

609
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 6: But a question that still looms for us is what

610
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 6: was going on for him throughout all of this. If

611
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 6: Jose had no history of mental illness, as his family

612
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 6: has told us, how did he suddenly become suicidal? So

613
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 6: we decided to take a trip to Jose's hometown in Mexico,

614
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 6: where he was just seven days before he died. We

615
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 6: went in search of clues and we ended up finding one.

616
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 16: Welcome to mons and Niyo's airport for your information local time.

617
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: MOSE's parents, Siberio and Elissa, and live on a property

618
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: they've managed for thirty years on a remote beach on

619
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: Mexican Goes West coast near Mansanillo. It's like a small

620
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: motel with a pool in the middle and the Pacific

621
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: Ocean as a backdrop. Yora, Jose's parents take us to

622
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: his bedroom. There is an elliptical in the corner, a

623
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: bed against the wall, and a dresser, and everything is

624
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: just as it was the de Jose left.

625
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 6: The only thing that's changed is now there's an altar

626
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 6: for Jose or Silverio and Elsa come to pray and

627
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 6: sometimes with the help of a plastic electronic grocery.

628
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: Josse's eleven year old nephew, Pepito, also lives here, and

629
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: he says he used to spend a lot of time

630
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: with his uncle playing video games in this room.

631
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 4: He thought of Jose as an older brother.

632
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 1: He says his uncle was a little shy and would

633
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time in his room keeping to himself.

634
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 6: And actually, Pepito is the only one in the family

635
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 6: who says Jose wasn't this happy, outgoing person like everyone

636
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 6: else told us he was. Pepito says he was sad

637
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 6: sometimes and that the only thing that seemed to cheer

638
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 6: him up was talking to his kids on FaceTime.

639
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 15: Lsue.

640
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 6: We follow the Nisagun family on a twenty minute drive

641
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 6: to a tiny cemetery with only a couple dozen other gravestones.

642
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 6: The sun is about to set, and shortly after we

643
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 6: get there, there's a large group of vultures circling over us.

644
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 6: The family built a raised grave for Jose out of

645
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 6: cement and tile, the kind you see in rural Mexico.

646
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 6: They decorated it with a large cross held up by

647
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 6: wooden posts, but all of that was destroyed by the

648
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 6: most recent hurricane.

649
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: Standing over his grave, they refused to believe Jose could

650
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: have killed himself, but because the thought of their son

651
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: doing that is unbearable, and also because they're devout Catholics,

652
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: Dan the biggest sin one can commit is suicide, sid

653
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: Verdio says, and there's no way my son could have

654
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: done that.

655
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 4: No, no.

656
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: Dress.

657
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 4: Before we leave, we ask if there's anyone else outside

658
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 4: of the family that we can talk to who knew Jose,

659
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 4: a doctor or maybe a priest.

660
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 6: And they give us a phone number for their family doctor.

661
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 6: So we call him and he says he actually treated

662
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 6: Jose just months before he died, and that he's willing

663
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 6: to talk to us about why Jose came to see him.

664
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 17: Doctor Juan Manuel Aragon moraleses La Medicina.

665
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 6: Doctor Juan Manuel Aragon Morales has been treating people in

666
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 6: this small town for forty one years, and in March

667
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 6: of twenty fifteen, he remembers getting a call from Jose's parents.

668
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 11: Pork and Muitriste.

669
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 6: Primo Silverio and Elisa brought Jose to doctor Aragon. They

670
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 6: told him that they noticed Jose was sad, he didn't

671
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 6: want to do anything and seemed depressed.

672
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 11: Guerro de precivo modevo.

673
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,959
Speaker 6: The doctor asked Jose a few questions. He asked Jose

674
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 6: if he had trouble sleeping, and he said yes. He

675
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 6: asked if he had ever thought of ending his life,

676
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 6: and Jose told the doctor he had.

677
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 17: Cynthia and La Vida and consulta.

678
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: According to doctor Aragon, Jose did not seem to be

679
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: suffering from clinical depression. Instead, he had what the doctor

680
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: called moderate situational depression. That's the sort of temporary depression

681
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: that you might feel when somebody dies or after the

682
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: end of a relationship. In this case, Jose was missing

683
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: his kids terribly.

684
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 4: Hey, look as Usio, the doctor told Jose, had taken

685
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 4: over the counter antidepressant every night before going.

686
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 11: To bed sai Yama Mirtazapina.

687
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 4: About twenty days later, the doctor saw Jose again. By

688
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 4: then he looked much better. He was more active, and

689
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 4: the medication seemed to be working. A month after that,

690
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 4: he saw him again and there was even more improvement.

691
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 6: Doctor Adragon says that yes, Jose was emotionally more fragile

692
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 6: than someone who hadn't suffered from depression, but he did

693
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 6: not believe at the time that Jose was suicidal. He

694
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 6: told Jose to continue taking the antidepressants and wait to

695
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 6: get his papers sorted out before trying to cross the

696
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 6: US Mexico border to see his kids.

697
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: That would be the last time they saw each other.

698
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 6: We just left the doctor's office and we walked down

699
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 6: to a little restaurant.

700
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: So I have to say that the first words out

701
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: of his mouth maybe heroes.

702
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 2: They just I went co.

703
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: His parents brought him here because he.

704
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 4: Was depressed, after telling us a hundred times that he

705
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 4: was never depressed.

706
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 6: Part of what I'm thinking, and especially having grown up

707
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 6: in Mexico, where any kind of mental illness, any kind

708
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 6: of depression, it's not something that families talk about in Mexico.

709
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 6: There is a lot of shame that comes with admitting

710
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 6: to having any kind of problem like this. Yes, I'm

711
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 6: shocked because the parents kept saying over and over that

712
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 6: he didn't have any problems. But in some ways I'm

713
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 6: not surprised.

714
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 4: Yet they gave us the doctor's contact, knowing that the

715
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 4: doctor knew something. Maybe it's that they wanted us to know,

716
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 4: but they couldn't say the words themselves, almost because it's

717
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 4: so painful.

718
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 6: It's our last day in Mexico, and when we get

719
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 6: back to our hotel, I check my email and there's

720
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 6: something from ICE. It says final response to Foyer request.

721
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: This seems unusual because it's been only a month since

722
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: we sent our request on Jose's case, and these things

723
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: usually take a long time.

724
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 6: We're hoping these are the documents we're requested, or maybe

725
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 6: even the surveillance footage that we asked for, But it's neither.

726
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 6: It's just a letter, Dear miss Ichavai. This is the

727
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 6: final response to your Freedom of Information Act request to

728
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 6: you all sechhersonnel, doctors, nurses, et cetera who were on

729
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 6: duty on May twenty as twentytions for records responsive to

730
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 6: your request produced one Excel spreadsheet will be withheld in

731
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 6: its entirety pursuant you have the right to appeal. Isis

732
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 6: withholding determination and that is all we got, which means

733
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 6: we have been formally denied access to any video that

734
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 6: ever existed from the day of the death of Jose,

735
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 6: the Jessus, the nis Shallum.

736
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 4: So we leave Mexico knowing more about who Jose was.

737
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 4: We know that he had felt depressed and that he

738
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 4: was taking antidepressants at the direction of his doctor.

739
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 6: But we don't I don't know when he stopped taking

740
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 6: the antidepressants. What we do know is that, according to

741
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 6: the autopsy, they were not in his system at the

742
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 6: time he died.

743
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 4: So this question comes up. If he was already emotionally unstable,

744
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 4: how did being detained affect his mental state.

745
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 6: We leave Mexico still searching for some documentation of what

746
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 6: happened to Jose inside the detention center, answers that perhaps

747
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 6: could be in the reports and video that we were denied.

748
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: So we come back to New York City feeling like

749
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: we're never going to get what we need.

750
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 4: Then a week later, for none that gets a call.

751
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 6: It literally said on the caller id city of Eloi,

752
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 6: all in caps. So I pick up the phone and

753
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 6: it's a woman that works for the local police department.

754
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 6: Now let's pause for a second. Remember how earlier in

755
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 6: the episode we talked about how we requested all this

756
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 6: information and documents from ICE. That wasn't the only place

757
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 6: where we went searching. And here's why. On the DA

758
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 6: Jose died, the detention center had to call nine one one,

759
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 6: and in doing so, the local police police department in

760
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 6: paramedics had to show up, leaving a paper trail of

761
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 6: what happened. So, a few weeks back, we had requested

762
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 6: all the documents regarding that incident from the small Eloi

763
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 6: Police department, and that's what this call was about. They

764
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,959
Speaker 6: had the documents ready to send via email, and it

765
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 6: is forty eight pages completely unredacted.

766
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 4: And honestly, this was really unexpected. All of a sudden,

767
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 4: we had a much better picture of what happened the

768
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 4: day Jose died.

769
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 6: The police department documents include first person narratives from guards

770
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,959
Speaker 6: and medical staff who were there when Jose was found unresponsive.

771
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 6: Nobody said that when they walked in they saw a

772
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 6: sock in his mouth. They say, in fact, that he

773
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 6: was having problems breathing for things.

774
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 4: That nobody reached into his mouth and tried to help him, right.

775
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 6: Because nobody saw a sock. According to these reports, we

776
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 6: also learned that Jose was still alive when the guards

777
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 6: entered his cell. They walked into his cell with a

778
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 6: protective shield and handcuffed him before Jose received medical attention.

779
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 4: Even if that is procedure, to me, I mean that

780
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,439
Speaker 4: tells me also something about the culture of a detention center.

781
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 4: I mean that is that is looking at people as

782
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 4: criminal threats.

783
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: The documents reveal that on his first day at ELOI,

784
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: Jose was with the general population and at some point

785
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: guards say he was saying things like they're after me,

786
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: They're gonna kill me, the exact same things he had

787
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: said to his sister on the phone when he was

788
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: at the border.

789
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 4: On the second day, there's an order from the psychiatrist

790
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 4: to put him on suicide watch, and that means he's

791
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 4: locked up by himself in a special cell, modified so

792
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 4: that there's nothing he can hurt himself with. The order

793
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 4: says he's not to have utensils, no betting, and only

794
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 4: a mattress on the floor. They take away his clothes

795
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 4: and issue him a smock that can't be torn to

796
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 4: create a news for example.

797
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 6: And there's another order from the same doctor a day

798
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 6: later on the third day. This one removes Jose from

799
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 6: suicide watch and puts him on a fifth minute watch.

800
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 6: He still locked up by himself and not with the

801
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 6: general population, but they give him back his normal uniform,

802
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 6: including his socks, and they have a guard check on

803
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 6: him every fifteen minutes.

804
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: Through the documents, we find out that at the five

805
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: point thirty check that evening, a guard found Jose lying

806
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: on his stomach, not moving in his cell. Less than

807
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: an hour later, he was pronounced dead.

808
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 6: Another thing we find is that there was a female

809
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 6: guard who took a video. It's some video that lasts

810
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 6: two minutes and fifty three seconds, and it is a

811
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 6: video of basically the CPR that was being done on

812
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 6: him and the last moments of Jose de Jesus's life

813
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 6: inside the cell.

814
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 4: And the police department records say that a copy of

815
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 4: that video was taken to their evidence room along with

816
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 4: copies of the surveillance video.

817
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 6: I requested that this morning and we could get it.

818
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,439
Speaker 1: We didn't know if getting copies of those videos would

819
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: actually be possible. Local police department in the city of

820
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: Eloy could deny our request.

821
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 6: Fast forward three weeks and we get a Manila envelope

822
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 6: in the mail with a CD. So I've just ripped

823
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 6: through this envelope and We're going to see what is

824
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 6: in the CD.

825
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 4: This is going to be intense to watch.

826
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: I mean, this is it a handheld video taken by

827
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: a guard at the exact moment guards and medical staff

828
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: enter Jose cell after they realize something is wrong.

829
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

830
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: All right, so the first thing we see is actually

831
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: just a stop frame of some feet like looking like

832
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: they're running.

833
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 6: How long the video is? How long is it?

834
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 2: Oh my god?

835
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 6: This is going to be intense people.

836
00:46:47,480 --> 00:47:11,439
Speaker 2: Okay, next time. What happens in that video?

837
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: How did the guards react, We hear more from what

838
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: ICE officials have to say about the detention system, and

839
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: a year after the death of osea Issus, a report

840
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: is released with details about what happens to him from

841
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,240
Speaker 1: the moment he arrives on the US border. The report

842
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 1: helps answer some of the most pressing questions about the

843
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: strange death of Wose the Issus. That's next time on

844
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: Latino USA. This episode originally aired in July of twenty

845
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: sixteen and was produced by Marlon Bishop and Fernanda Chavari,

846
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: who nowadays is an immigration reporter for Mother Jones magazine.

847
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: The Strange Death of Jose de Jesus received the Robert F.

848
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: Kennedy Journalism Award. This investigation was reported with assistants from

849
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: the Marshall Project, a nonprofit news organization covering criminal justice.

850
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: Our deepest thanks to the Denise de Sagun family and

851
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: an update Silverio Denis, Jose Jesus's father passed away this year.

852
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: We are sending our deepest condolences to the family.

853
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 10: The Latino USA team includes Miel Massias, Sofia Parisaka, Luis Trees,

854
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 10: Jane Yamoca, Julia Ta Martinelli, GII Montalgo, Alises Garce and

855
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 10: Alejandra Sarassard with help from Roun Prees.

856
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: Our engineers are Stephanie Lebou, Julia Caruso, and Lea sham.

857
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: Our director of programming and Operations is Natalia fide Hutz.

858
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: Our digital editor is Amandel Cantra. Our New York Women's

859
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 1: Foundation Ignite Fellow is Julia Rocha. Our interns are Sofia

860
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: Sanchez and Marie Mendosa. Our theme music was composed by

861
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: Segnor RINOs. If you like the music you heard on

862
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: this episode, stop by Latinousa dot org and check out

863
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive producer

864
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: Marie j.

865
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 11: Josa.

866
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: Join us again on our next episode and me in

867
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: the meantime look for us on all of your social media.

868
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: A Stella Proxima.

869
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 3: Latino Usa is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation,

870
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 3: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide,

871
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 3: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and the

872
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 3: Heising Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More at

873
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 3: hsfoundation dot org.