1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: I never told your production of iHeart Radio. Okay, is 3 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: there a moment in your childhood where you knew or 4 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: that had the memory of realizing that your mom, what's 5 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: someone that you could completely depend on. That's a good question. 6 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: I have a memory of I was involved in a car, 7 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: a pretty serious car accident when I was four years old. 8 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: I was a hit and run. And after that, I 9 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: had like all these medical issues and I remember once 10 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: in middle of the night, like I was having trouble 11 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: breathing and my mom just was there and was holding 12 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: me and took me to the hospital. And I remember 13 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: thinking in that moment like this is a person who 14 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: is looking out for me and who's going to be 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: there for me, And it was just like, I don't know, 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 1: I just have that of her holding me and feeling like, Okay, 17 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: this is gonna be okay, because I was kind of 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: panicking before that, So maybe that Yeah, that's a good memory. 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: And the reason I asked is today we are going 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: to go down this very vast road in different studies 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: of attachment and attachment theories and attachment disorders and how 22 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: they relate to women and even in women's relationships in general, 23 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: and of course if you don't know much about the 24 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: attachment theory as well as all of the studies behind it, 25 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: there's a lot of emphasis on mothers and maternal connections, 26 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: especially when you go to the original idea. And it's 27 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: funny because you and I were talking about we're gonna 28 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: record this episode, and I was talking about how difficult 29 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: some of this resource was and how very vastly different 30 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: the theories can be, as well as the fact that 31 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: some of the older studies, much like what we talked 32 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: about with our book club inferior, it was really problematic 33 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: because they were not necessarily completely just scientific, especially a 34 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: lot more misogynistic ideas and the lack of research when 35 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: it came to women and girls in general. But I 36 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: thought it was fascinating because as we were talking about it, 37 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: you were like, I'm afraid this is going to be 38 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: one of those moments where I'm gonna be like, oh, 39 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: that's me, this is me, And I'm like I had 40 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: many of those moments myself, which is also why I 41 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: find this subject really fascinating because as a person who 42 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: has worked in the field for so long as well 43 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: as someone who has gone through a lot of trauma, 44 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: especially in my early childhood, especially when it came to 45 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: caregivers and people in my life. Yeah, I'm like, well, 46 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: this could be me and me and me, and not 47 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: that it's something to joke about, but something that has 48 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: brought out was the fact that my social work of 49 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: friends and myself will talk about the fact that probably 50 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: should have been diagnosed with an attachment disorder as a kid. 51 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: But this is fairly new ish in itself as a conversation. 52 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: So I thought it was interesting and I wanted to 53 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: know if you had that moment in your life when 54 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, my mom is here. This is what 55 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: I know. She's the charagiver. I know that she's my 56 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: safety net because for me, I don't technically have one 57 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: of those moments. So yeah, we're gonna get into it, 58 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be a little all over the place. 59 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, go ahead and put that. There's no real 60 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: trigger warning, even though there's a lot of scientific ideas 61 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: behind this theory as well as a lot of sociological 62 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: aspects to this, but it may make you start wondering 63 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: about your own style and may trigger some things. So 64 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: we'll put that in here. Yeah, I'm really fascinated by 65 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: this because later in my life I had a reason 66 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: to be concerned about abandonment, I guess, but early on 67 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: I did it, and yet I would still like wait 68 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: at the door, at the window, and my parents would 69 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: even think, oh, they're never coming back. And I've always 70 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: been curious about why that is, and so perhaps I 71 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: will learn about today. So what are we talking about 72 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: when we say attachment? As defined by Marion Webster, attachment 73 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: is a strong emotional bond that an infant forms with 74 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: a caregiver such as a mother, especially when viewed as 75 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: a basis for normal emotional and social development. Also the 76 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: process by which an infant forms such an emotional bond. 77 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: Of course, this is very literal term when it comes 78 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: to the psychology of attachment, right, And if you want 79 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: to go through and look at all the research papers 80 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: in different types of self help, I guess articles that 81 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: are out there about this, they also call it an 82 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: affection of bond as well, So it's kind of that level. Yeah, 83 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna keep going down again this rabbit hole, and 84 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: I'm telling you it's a deep rabbit hole. And what 85 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: is the attachment? The Arry and how did this theory 86 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: come to be? Attachment theory is defined as quote a 87 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: set of concepts that explained the emergence of an emotional 88 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: bond between an infant and a primary caregiver and the 89 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: way in which this bond affects the child's behavior and 90 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: emotional development into adulthood. And this is by dictionary dot com. 91 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,799 Speaker 1: So the attachment theory was first studied by John Bulby, 92 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst that worked at the Child Guyan 93 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: Clinic in London, and it was the nineteen fifty eight a. 94 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: Bulby proposed that the importance of a child's relationship to 95 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: its mother influences their social, emotional, and cognitive development. His 96 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: ideas centered around the concept of monotropy, which is based 97 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: on the idea that a child has to attach to 98 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: one main attachment figure, meaning there's one relationship that is 99 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: more important than others. And by the way, he was 100 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: actually one of those children growing up after being with 101 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: his mother, was sent to boarding school and felt like 102 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: this really disruptive sort of his attachment stuff. And this 103 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: is why he's also fascinated much like us. I'm like, oh, 104 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: what's wrong with us? Let's look it up, and he 105 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: was interested in learning again the level of separation, anxiety, 106 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: and distress children experience when they're no longer with their guardians. 107 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: He theorized that attachment was an evolutionary process and that 108 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: children were born with innate needs to form attachments with 109 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: their primary caregivers. He believed the most critical periods of 110 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: attachment development were the first two and a half years UM, 111 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: but then he later changed that to the first five 112 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: years of years of life. And by the way, he 113 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: also said that if they weren't attached by the first 114 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: two and a half years, they never would and that 115 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: could cause criminal behavior. So his would whole further into 116 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: the study, but we're not going to talk about that 117 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: level yet. WHOA And according to a site that was 118 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: looking into his work, quote, an internal working model is 119 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: a cognitive framework comprising mental representations for understanding the world, 120 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: self and others, and it's based on the relationship with 121 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: the primary caregiver. It becomes a pro a type for 122 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: all future social relationships and allows individuals to predict, control, 123 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: and manipulate interactions with others. He identified some ideas of 124 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: characteristics of attachment, which included proximity, maintenance, being near people, 125 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: we are attached to, safe haven, being able to get 126 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: comfort and safety and threatening situations from an attachment figure, 127 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: secure base, the figure that the child can come back 128 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: to while exploring the surroundings um separation, distress, anxiety when 129 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: the figure is absent. But as we talked about earlier, 130 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: and we'll probably talk about all the way, because I 131 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: really want to emphasize this point that as any real 132 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: good theories go, there are variations and conflicts that rose 133 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: as time passed and more studies were conducted. And by 134 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: the way, when we talk about more studies, we're talking 135 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: about how they've delved into studies when it comes to abuse, 136 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: when it comes to domestic violence, when it comes to 137 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: drug use. So there's a plethora of conversations. Psychologist Mary 138 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: Ainsworth expanding on Boulby studies with hard work titled Strange Situations, 139 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: which was a study in the nineteen seventies. She observed 140 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: children between the ages of twelve to eighteen months when 141 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: the guardians would lead for a short amount of time 142 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: and return, specifically the mothers, and there would be strangers present, 143 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: so she wanted to see this type of interaction. She 144 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: was able to identify specific styles of attachment, including secure, ambivalent, insecure, 145 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: and avoided insecure attachments which could affect behavior later in life, 146 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: and in the eighties of fourth style was identified by 147 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: the researcher's main Solomon, known as the disorganized insecure attachment, 148 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: and these studies continue today with more and more research 149 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: being conducted not only in the world of psychology, but 150 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: within the world of health care and other service fields. 151 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: It heavily influences training and policies within the social welfare 152 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: systems and professions and has continued to be a topic 153 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: of discussion within the world of academia. But of course, 154 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: with such large subject matter, with a lot of opinions 155 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: and different research, it comes with some controversy. In past, 156 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: misconceived attempts in trying to relearn or unlearned past traumatic 157 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: experiences as children has allowed for different methods of therapy 158 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: that are considered poorly thought out and based on inaccurate 159 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: evidence in its basis and overall research that it should 160 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: be looked at with caution, as one stated that these 161 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: practices quote are not regarded as having any basis and 162 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: attachment theory and research. Besides using the word attachment in 163 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: the title, yeah, some of these practices has actually caused death. 164 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: And what we're talking about is some of these children 165 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: who have been diagnosed with some of the severe disorders 166 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: like reactive attachment disorder, which we're going to talk about 167 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: in a minute, but they would actually try to rebirth them, 168 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: and that practice was swaddling them with heavy cloth and 169 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: trying to make them kind of push out out of 170 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: the birth canal which is that cloth, but has killed 171 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: people because they were ended up being suffocated or such. 172 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: And it's kind of all these levels of like this 173 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: is impractical, why would you do this? And some of 174 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: these practices still happen illegally even though it has been 175 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: banned um, and it's not that's not the only ones. 176 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: Of course, we talk about reparenting, which sounds like a 177 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: good idea, but if it's not actually looked into and 178 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: what therapeutic ideas are behind quote unquote reparenting, it can 179 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: become very dangerous, especially if we're not looking and monitoring 180 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: ptsd UM and triggers as well. So there's a whole 181 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: different level. But there's a lot of controversy about who 182 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: wants to do what, not that it's all bad, but 183 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: it may be hard cost more harm than good and 184 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: those with the kind of the practices that we're talking 185 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: about when we say controversial. One thing that Bolby did 186 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: not account for, which again is not surprising for that time, 187 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: is gender. In a researcher named Tonison found that girls 188 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: were almost twice as often securely attached than boys, and 189 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: that the boys were two times more likely to be 190 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: categorized as avoidant and three times more likely to be 191 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: categorized as this organized. And yes, we're gonna explain what 192 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: these are in a minute, but we just want ahead 193 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: and put these statistics out here. And unsurprisingly, insecure boys 194 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: were more likely to act out aggressively and to have 195 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: behavioral issues, and when stressed and insecurely attached girls who 196 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: were more likely to try to please others, meaning boys 197 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: were more likely to react with fight or flight, while 198 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: girls maybe more on the friend and be friend trend, 199 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: so trying to be a people pleaser essentially. And the 200 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: study continues to show that insecure attached boys are more 201 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: likely to lash out while girls may exhibit internalized behaviors. 202 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: And of course this is just one study about it, 203 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: and it just trying to account for gender differences if 204 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: there are any as we talked about in our A 205 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: d h D episodes about what is seeing and why 206 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: girls may be less diagnosed is because of the external 207 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: versus internal. This is kind of that same conversation. Mm hmm. Yes, 208 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: So we do have a lot more we want to 209 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: get into with this discussion, but first we're going to 210 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: pause for a quick break for a word from response there, 211 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. So let's dig into 212 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: some of the types of attachment styles often seen in adults. Um. 213 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: There are four specific types of attachment styles that are 214 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: typically noted secure attachment, anxious attachment, avoidant attachment, and disorganized attachment. 215 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: So let's get into some definitions of these. Secure attachment 216 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: also known as autonomous. Those classified as secure are seen 217 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: as being comfortable and intimacy, less likely to be worried 218 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: about rejection or overly analytical, and how they view their 219 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: relationships typically seen as trusting and forgiving, communicates emotions and 220 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: openly communicates them, does not need to avoid conflict. Avoidant attachment, 221 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: known also as dismissive, characterized with being uncomfortable with close 222 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: relationships and typically values independence first and individual freedom. They 223 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: find itfficult to trust partners and those around them. They 224 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: can be seen more emotionally distant and fearful of rejection. 225 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: They can be seen as stoic, compulsively self sufficient, and 226 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: with a narrow emotional range. They are also known to 227 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: be good in a crisis, less emotional, and can't take charge. 228 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: They are also seen as less likely to talk about 229 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: their emotions and avoid conflict, but also may have a 230 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: more explosive episode when pushed Oh that sounds familiar. So 231 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: Anxious attachment a k A. Preoccupied are more likely to 232 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: be insecure in relationships, worried about rejection and abandonment, and 233 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: are seen as hyperactive when it comes to knees and 234 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: their behavior often obsesses on past issues and past unresolved incidents, 235 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: which can interfere with their current relationships. Can be seen 236 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: as overly sensitive and can take someone's behavior or action 237 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: as a personal attack. They're known as being highly emotional 238 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: and combative and have poor personal boundaries, and they often 239 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: blame others and seem to not be self aware. And 240 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: then there is the disorganized attachment or unresolved attachment, and 241 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: this is the high levels of anxiety and an avoidance combined. 242 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: Not only are they more likely to be uncomfortable with intimacy, 243 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: but also worried in questioning their partner's commitment and overall love, 244 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: oftentimes associated with severe depression PTSD, disassociations and interests of 245 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: triggered memories or trauma um. When looking at this type 246 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: of attachment, it is often a part of the comorbility 247 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: with the types of diagnosis that can be associated with 248 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: severe abuse or neglect. Now, these are specific styles and 249 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: categories used to identify how adults may relate with others, 250 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: but there's no actual diagnosis of attachment disordered for adults. 251 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: And most often when attachment and adults are being studied, 252 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: they are given questions to assess the early relationships one 253 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: may have had with their primary caregivers. So they are 254 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: going way back and oftentimes will kind of negate what 255 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: has happened recently. And we're gonna talk a little bit 256 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: bit more about this later. But stressors, life events, all 257 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: of these things do affect that as well. However, there 258 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: are two specific attachment disorders that can be diagnosed in children, 259 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: and they are fairly new in the d s M, 260 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: and that, though we aren't going to go to in depth, 261 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: we did want to do a quick overview of what 262 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: they are. Starting with reactive attachment disorder or RAD, usually 263 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: seen in children who have suffered maltreatment, ABUS or neglect 264 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: is not often diagnosed correctly and needs specific effective treatment. 265 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: If it isn't treated, symptoms may continue into adulthood. Some 266 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: symptoms may include impulsivity, hard time maintaining relationships, and ability 267 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: to read emotions or show affection, detachment and anchor issues. Right, 268 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: and at one point in time, there was conversations about 269 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: whether unresolved RAD could lead to antisocial personality disorders, but 270 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: there's really no correlation. Uh, And there's the bigger conversation again, 271 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: there's this whole level how hard it is to diagnosed 272 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: someone with RAD as well as anti social personality disorders. 273 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: Typically there's a specific questionnaires to that, and unless they're 274 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: already kind of noted to have these types of symptoms 275 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: and these professionals are able to link, they won't be diagnosed. 276 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: This has been my experience when I was working with 277 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: the Department Family Children's Services, and how often that would 278 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: be kind of just pushed to the side. There's also 279 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: disinhibited social engagement disorder or d s e D, which 280 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: can develop due to neglect and a lack of consistent 281 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: attachment to a primary caregiver during the first two years 282 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: of life. Again fairly need to the treatment world, so 283 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: maybe under diagnosed or can be mixed with the RAD diagnosis, 284 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: but much like RAD, if it isn't treated effectively, it 285 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: can continue into adulthood. And some signs of d s 286 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: c D and adults include hyperactivity, lack of awareness when 287 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: it comes to social boundaries, lack of inhibitions and certain behaviors, 288 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: and may be intrusive with the people they barely know 289 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: or have just met, so the boundary lines have kind 290 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: of just disappeared. And when looking at children diagnosed with 291 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: attachment disorders, it's usually within the ages of nine months 292 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: to five years UH, though again it can manifest into 293 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: adulthood if not treated. But with these two actual disorders, 294 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: it can be confused with insecure attachment styles, which we 295 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: talked about earlier and may not be classified as a 296 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: d s M disorder or diagnosis, but can lead to 297 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: other types of d s M diagnosis if not treated. 298 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: And while we're talking about all of this, these, like 299 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: most theories and diagnoses, look differently with different people, and 300 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: many people can have more than one style of attachment 301 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: issue that can be triggered based on past trauma, current 302 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: trauma stress, so societal expectations or life changes in general, 303 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: And the information is constantly changing and turning. But we 304 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: still want to see what happens when it comes to 305 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: women attachment styles and relationships. So yeah, let's take a 306 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: look at that right now. Again, let's go ahead and 307 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: just put this reminder here, because you know, I love 308 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: all the reminders. There's not a catch all when it 309 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: comes to personality or mentality types. There are some schools 310 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: of thought that the attachment can play a role in 311 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: a person's way of interacting with people, whether it's familial 312 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: or romantic. But there's no magic quiz that can perfectly 313 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: diagnose what type of attachment style one maybe categorized well 314 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: for most people anyway, who knows, maybe some people can, 315 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: but that I've seen or that has been super accurate. 316 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: And just as we are saying earlier and any you 317 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: and I were saying, we might fit into a couple 318 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: of these categories on different levels, right So, and we 319 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: talked a bit earlier about how each different styles might 320 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,959 Speaker 1: react in romantic relationships, but we wanted to look at 321 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: this in a different take, specifically how this may affect women, 322 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,479 Speaker 1: especially when we look at the six heteronormative demands placed 323 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: on women meaning the perfect wise, mother's caretakers rights. According 324 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: to one article focused on attachment and relationships, author Dr 325 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: Beard Brugert looks at how the focus on the attachment 326 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: between two people that quote sustained traditional relationship structures and 327 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: not necessarily romantic love. In her article, she states, no 328 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: matter the type of attachment, attachment relationships are quote likely 329 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: to involve some form of dependence and contractual interaction. And 330 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: here she examines a look within marriages and domestic partnerships. 331 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: When she she's talking about attachment relationships, she continues that 332 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: these relationships quote replicate traditional relationship structures that could lead 333 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: to an oppressive relationship right. And according to her writing, 334 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: she gave some examples of why women in these roles 335 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: are oftentimes the one to invest more emotional energy and 336 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: how the relationships are typically uneven. She states women may 337 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: subsume their identity to their partners, which in turn transform 338 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: their own perspectives or ideals, trying to become more like them. 339 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: Another reason maybe that women are more likely to stay 340 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: in long term relationships because of the overall investment in 341 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: that relationship, i e. We've done this for ten years. 342 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: I can't just get out of it now. I've invested 343 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: too much and changing this can be too hard. And 344 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: a third reason women are more likely to be in 345 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: this type of attachment relationship may have to do with 346 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: the overall societal expectation that women are supposed to be 347 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: dependent on men, whether we are talking about the heteronormative 348 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: role of men being breadwinners or being protectors leaders of 349 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: a home. The societal expectation of two becoming one places 350 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: a level of dependency in order for women to be complete. 351 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: So Horle conversation was based on the idea that this 352 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,719 Speaker 1: type of relationship is an attachment based relationship, so therefore 353 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: is unhealthy and taking away power and the overall desire 354 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: that a woman may have, meaning that they cannot place 355 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: themselves first because in this attachment relationship they put their 356 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: husbands first, which we've heard that many many times about marriages. Yes, yes, 357 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: and when we break down mononormative relationships, there could be 358 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: elements that some may think are too constrictive and cause 359 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: more stress within these relationships. In fact, there are many 360 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: theories within attachment and relationships about how specific types may 361 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: not be compatible um and more toxic than others when 362 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: looking at a secure attachment. The idea is that a 363 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: secure style may be compatible with all the styles as 364 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: long as they are able to discern and communicate with 365 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: the partners, while an anxious style with an avoidance style 366 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: may be one of the least likely to succeed. Though 367 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: again not written in stone, these are generalizations we're dealing 368 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: with now. But then we need to take into account 369 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: the overall stressors of life and how each attachment style 370 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: handles the stressors, whether they are exterior or interior types 371 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: of stress. So a lot going on. People are complicated, 372 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: and when we talk about exterior and interior types of 373 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: stress is kind of like what's going around them versus 374 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: what's going on inside of them and how do they react? 375 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: And we talked about how you know, some more inhibited 376 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: and some are more physical, so that kind of conversation. Yes, yes, 377 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: and we have even more conversation for you, but first 378 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: we have one more cup break for word fer sponsors, 379 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 1: every Black thank You sponsors. So some theory is that consensual, 380 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: non monogamous relationships may help open up different attachment possibilities, 381 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: so you may have different styles that can actually relate 382 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: with others. Even beyond that, exploring past the binary ideas 383 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: of both relationships and gender could allow for better emotional 384 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: regulation as well as a more secure attachments being able 385 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: to be formed. So, as author Meg John Barker writes 386 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: in her article gender Attachment and Trauma, Quote, consider how 387 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: entwined gender is with emotional expression and how stepping outside 388 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: of the culturally normative way of doing romantic sexual relationships 389 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: may offer possibilities of slowing down and or prioritizing different 390 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: kinds of relating which may be more stable and secure. 391 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: And if you go on to read her article, she 392 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: talks a lot about how gender plus trauma plus attachment 393 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: can be a big portion of how we handle our 394 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: relationships and how breaking down the binary ideas of each 395 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: can actually be helpful in understanding our own attachment things 396 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,719 Speaker 1: as well as being able to relate with others. So 397 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: it was really really interesting, and of course this is 398 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: very new um as we are talking more and more 399 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: about the spectrum of gender to the spectrum of relationships, 400 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: polyamorous relationships and how it can be healthy and consensual 401 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: adult relationships where people are able to explore more with 402 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: their sexuality and also that spectrum as well, and breaking 403 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: that down that perhaps allows us to be able to 404 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: explore our attachment styles as well and to work on 405 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: being more secure. So it's a really fascinating read. Definitely 406 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: should read that. I also should go ahead and put 407 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: this in here. In part of the controversy, the old 408 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: school ideas of attachment our binary and can be even 409 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: be problem magic. It has been used as kind of 410 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: a transphobic idea of what gender norms could be when 411 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: it comes to attachment. So we go ahead with that 412 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: morning out there. There's a really bad science out there 413 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: for old fashioned, very Western Christian ideas of heteronormative families 414 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: and normal families, as they would call it, not what 415 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: we would call it, so go ahead, but that they're so. 416 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: Another key component to this entire conversation again is how 417 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: trauma affects an individual's attachment style as well. So when 418 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: we look at the situations of abusing violence in a 419 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: person with an insecure attachment, the overall stressors can push 420 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: the individual symptoms into overdrive or maybe even bring some 421 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: out that we didn't know was there, whether it's having 422 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: memories since we triggers that bring out past defenses, maybe distancing, 423 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: being too cleany, or PTSD episodes, which can occur if 424 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: a situation is a reminiscent of a past traumatic occurrence. 425 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 1: There's also even an exploration of weather disorders like disassociative 426 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: identity disorder or d I D could be linked with 427 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: attached disorders our styles as well. In a two thousand 428 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: and six steady the question of whether an infant's attachment 429 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: disorganization could contribute to the development of adult disassociative symptoms, 430 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: and though there could be some evidence that suggests there 431 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: is a possible link, it hasn't been fully studied at 432 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: this time. There is a commonality to the disorganized attachment 433 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: style to both disassociative identity and PTSD, but no real 434 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: evidence to show it being a cause or effect when 435 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: it comes to d I D. But we also wanted 436 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: to talk about types of therapy or treatment that can 437 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: help for those with insecure attachment styles. For children with 438 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: disorders such as RAD or d S e D, psychotherapy 439 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: like play therapy and art therapy can often allow for 440 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: children to communicate on their level, and it's typically best 441 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: wind caregivers are able to attend with a child to 442 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: focus on strengthening their relationship and developing a healthy attachment. 443 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: Social skills training which can help children learn to interact 444 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: better and social settings, and overall family therapy also good option. 445 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: So for adults of course, the therapy with a trusted 446 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: certified therapists. And again, because attachment styles and issues are 447 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: based on personal experiences, discussing the symptoms may be the 448 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: first way to note what type of treatment is best 449 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: for an individual. Um Again, go to therapy, that's a 450 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: good thing. But if you can't afford there, because we 451 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: know that's the privilege which shouldn't be unfortunately is uh, 452 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: there are ways that you can look to work on 453 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: your attachment issues as well. Not only can you work 454 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: on your attachment issues and insecure attachment, but you can 455 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 1: help for any relationships. Honestly, so we just want to 456 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: kind of give a couple of things as possible advice. Again, 457 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: we are not professionals, so don't listen to us as 458 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: if where your doctors, please go see if you can 459 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: go see a therapist yourself, all of those things. But 460 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: these are some things that you can look at and 461 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: maybe able to process some of the things that you 462 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: have been thinking on, or have been obsessing on or 463 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: wondering about. Who knows. Try to work on your non 464 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: verbabal communications. Between how you interpret, how you interact with others, 465 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: and how you read others can affect your relationships, and 466 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: being able to communicate on both nonverbal and verbal levels 467 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: can alleviate some of the pain of assuming things are 468 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: going wrong and being able to actually work through it 469 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: without seeing the horrors of oh my god, did this? 470 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: Is this going to happen? Which I do that examinations 471 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,719 Speaker 1: and I'm assuming everything. That's the worst m But if 472 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: you could break that down and I should talk about 473 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: it and actually work on yourself, this might help you 474 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: work on your emotional intelligence or EQ. This means learning 475 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: to understand your own emotions and how to control or 476 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: even understand why you feel the way you do, and 477 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: being able to express this to your partner more harder 478 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: than you would think. Something I've been working on. Yes, 479 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: find and develop relationships with securely attached people. This can 480 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: help in romantic relationships, but can also be helpful in friendships. 481 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: Having supportive, strong friends could have help you overcome your 482 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: own insecurities right and a biggie work on resolving your 483 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: childhood trauma or traumas. Uh yeah, And it's easy to 484 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: try to bypass this one or to ignore it. I've 485 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: done in a lot for me for the longest time 486 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: when I was in therapy, I could never get to 487 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: that because I was so constantly dealing with the daily 488 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: trauma and daily issues and having to try to get 489 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: past that. So I was putting band aids instead of actually, 490 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: you know, doing surgery and stitching myself up. But when 491 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: it comes to attachment theories, this is the one that 492 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: can weigh you down from making progress and positive change. 493 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: So there's a lot to that, obviously. And I throw 494 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: that out there as if it's like, oh, here you go, 495 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: obviously very easy. It isn't. It isn't. And typically the 496 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: best way to do this is through therapy. Again, like 497 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: I said, it took me ten years to actually get 498 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: to that because I was just dealing with daily trauma 499 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: upon trauma upon trauma, which I mean the last year 500 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: I think would be the prime example of you weren't 501 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: able to do the deepest off because you're dealing with 502 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: the daily stuff, and that in itself can cost so much. 503 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: Trauma can cost so much triggering, but as we are 504 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: trying to get back to hopefully a baseline of what 505 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: our life was at one point in time, trying to 506 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: come back to resolve those past traumas. That's just sitting there. 507 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: Really important, yes, extremely important, and very very difficult to 508 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: do for sure. And you know, We've been having this 509 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: serious conversation and I've had a lot of Star Wars 510 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: thoughts and I've been trying to hold them back, but 511 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: I just want to say, like, there's a lot I 512 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: could talk about with Star Wars and attached issues stitles, 513 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: because there's like the whole Jedi code of like attachment 514 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: is fine, but attachment to the attachment is not fine. 515 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: You have to be willing to let go you've got 516 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: I've been reading these like Darth Vader, who is called 517 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: Sad murder Dad, and fan fiction often stories where he's 518 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: like trying to get Luke to attach do it just 519 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,959 Speaker 1: doing all this weird messed up stuff Kylo Wren as 520 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: a whole. I don't even want to get into it anyway. 521 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: I could maybe in a future happy here we go, 522 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: the psychology of Star Wars. I am ready, Yes, I'm 523 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: sure you are. Yes, I've been preparing, but we can. 524 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: We should do a whole session where I pretend to 525 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: be the counselor and you pretend to be one of 526 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: the characters, and well, have like a session that would 527 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: be so fun. What it so okay? Last night when 528 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: we played Dungeons and Dragons and I had to I 529 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: was playing essentially Kylo Wren as a villain, and it 530 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: was so weird because I was like, I was getting 531 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: hurt because they were saying mean things to me, but 532 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't like Kylo writ It was a 533 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: very confusing place to be a lot of conflicting emotions there. 534 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: And as you're talking about your correlation to Star Wars, Honestly, 535 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: these conversations that we're having can go back to a 536 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: lot of our own episodes, including daddy issues. We talked 537 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: about that and that's actually that came up as part 538 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: of the research as well. How that could be a 539 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: part of this is it's an attachment thing where it's 540 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: unnecessarily healthy, And they did have researched specifically to children 541 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: bonding with fathers and can that be the caregiver? And 542 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: there have been other pass words. Emerson is one of 543 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: them who talks about having at least one primary good 544 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: influence who you can attach to and that can make 545 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: a significant change. And I believe that I've seen that. 546 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: I feel like that's why mentorship programs are so important 547 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: as well. But so many things that we could go 548 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: with this, and yeah, this is a very skewed, giant 549 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: topic that we boiled down to this because we were like, 550 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: how do we do this in a way that correlates 551 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: as one topic without going fifteen thousand different directions and 552 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: finding notable good research that's not super transphobic, super homophobic, 553 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: or any of that such, because those narratives, as we know, 554 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: can change based on people's agendas and we didn't want 555 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: to do that. But it's a lot, it's a lot 556 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: to take in. It is a lot to take in. 557 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: It's given me a lot to think about and listeners, 558 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: if you would like to share your thoughts of those, 559 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: you can. You can email us at Stuff Media, mom 560 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,719 Speaker 1: Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find us 561 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You or on 562 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our 563 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,479 Speaker 1: super producer, Christina, Thank you, and thanks to you for 564 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: listening Stuff I Never Told You. His protection of iHeart Radio. 565 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: For more podcast on iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 566 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.