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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 3: What do we have personal?

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Speaker 1: Indeed, we do lots of big news coming out of

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Speaker 1: Israel where the RAFA ground invasion has begun. They've taken

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Speaker 1: over a key border crossing. And there's also a lot

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Speaker 1: going on with regards to ceasefire deal Homash accepted and

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Speaker 1: then Israel went ahead and invaded. So we'll break all

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Speaker 1: of that down for you. Also have some Trump on

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Speaker 1: trial updates for you. The judge and the hush money

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Speaker 1: case issuing yet another fine against Trump for violating the

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Speaker 1: gag order and threatening him with jail time. So talk

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Speaker 1: about that. The long anticipated meet debate lab grown meat

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Speaker 1: to hopefully we're getting to it today, Hopefully Sager and

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Speaker 1: I will be able to avoid talking so much that

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Speaker 1: we have to skip it once again, because I know

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Speaker 1: you guys are very excited about our takes on lab

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Speaker 1: grown meat. Columbia has officially canceled their commencement this after

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Speaker 1: they claimed that one of the big reasons they were

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Speaker 1: clearing out the encampment was to get ready for said commencement.

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Speaker 1: So we'll take a look at that as well as

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Speaker 1: polling about how people feel about these protests, about the

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Speaker 1: response to the protests, a lot of interesting stuff to

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Speaker 1: get dig into. Their speaking of interesting saga, taking a

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Speaker 1: look at some recent Jerry Seinfeld comments that seemed to

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Speaker 1: be from like circa twenty fifteen, So that's going to

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Speaker 1: be a good one. I'm looking forward to that. And

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Speaker 1: on a much more serious note, we are hoping to

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Speaker 1: be able to speak with a doctor who just returned

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Speaker 1: from Gaza to talk to us about the conditions on

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Speaker 1: the ground there and what she saw in the context

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Speaker 1: of trying her best to treat patients. So very much

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Speaker 1: looking forward to speaking with.

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Speaker 3: Her as well.

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Speaker 2: That's right, we want to get in on the ground update.

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Speaker 2: She literally just returned from the war zone and she

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Speaker 2: can give us actual view as to what's going on

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Speaker 2: before we get to that. Thank you to everybody who's

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Speaker 2: been signing up and helping us out for becoming a

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Speaker 2: premium subscriber. We've got a big Counterpoints debate. Everything is

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Speaker 2: ready and it's set to go. It's going to be

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Speaker 2: on free speech. We won't get let give you away

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Speaker 2: who the contestants are, but I think suffice to say

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Speaker 2: you're going to know them, You're going to like it,

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Speaker 2: and there's going to be some fiery moments. So go

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Speaker 2: ahead and sign up, you guys get early access to that.

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Speaker 2: On top of supporting all of our work here, we've

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Speaker 2: got big plans now for the DNC. I think it

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Speaker 2: is official. It is definitely going to be nineteen sixty

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Speaker 2: eight ESK. We will all be on the ground there.

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Speaker 2: So if you want to be able to support that

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Speaker 2: type of work Breakingpoints dot com, we deeply appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: All Right, guys, let's go ahead and turn two developments

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Speaker 1: out of Israel and the Gaza strips. Specifically, we can

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Speaker 1: put these images up on the screen, so these are

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Speaker 1: images of air strikes. This has actually taken from the

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Speaker 1: Egyptian side of the border. Of course, Rafa there all

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Speaker 1: the way at the southern end of Gaza. These are

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Speaker 1: more images you can see of air strikes that are occurring.

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Speaker 1: This is I think an IDF soldier TikTok running what

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Speaker 1: appears to be a tank over the welcome to Gaza

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Speaker 1: sign and this was released by the IDF. I know

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Speaker 1: it looks like a video game. To me, it looks

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Speaker 1: like a video game, but this is official footage that

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Speaker 1: the IDF released of the beginning of this invasion into Rafa.

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Speaker 1: And these are more drone images that were also released

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Speaker 1: by the IDF. So we don't know a lot at

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Speaker 1: this point. We know that the ground invasion has obviously begun,

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Speaker 1: We know there has been a significant increase in terms

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Speaker 1: of air strikes, and we know there have been some

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Speaker 1: additional palastidian depths. We also know that the IDF has

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Speaker 1: actually taken control of the Rafa crossing on the Palace

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Speaker 1: to the inside. This is something that Egyptian officials are

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Speaker 1: already expressing alarm about and has major implications not only

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Speaker 1: in terms of military strategy, but most significantly in terms

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Speaker 1: of humanitarian situation on the ground. That Rafa Crossing is

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Speaker 1: one of the most significant entry points for aid into Gaza.

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Speaker 1: We know that yesterday the Israelis had closed another entry

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Speaker 1: point into Gaza. This after Hamas rockets had hit a

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Speaker 1: nearby military installation, and in retaliation they closed that crossing

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Speaker 1: as well. This comes, of course, as the un IS

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Speaker 1: saying they are Asidney McCain of the un IS officially saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: northern Gaza is in full blown famine. This is creeping south.

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Speaker 1: We also know in Rafa you have some six hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand kids, all of whom are in bad shape, many

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Speaker 1: of whom are already malnourished. And yesterday, of course reported

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Speaker 1: on the fact that the Israelis had asked one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand Palestinian sheltering in Rafa to leave. I read some

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Speaker 1: accounts of some of those individuals Saga, and you know,

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Speaker 1: many of these people they've already been forcibly displaced multiple times.

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Speaker 1: They have literally no money, they have no idea where

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Speaker 1: to go. There is nowhere that is actually safe. And

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Speaker 1: that's not according to me. That's according to New York

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Speaker 1: Times and NPR and other analysts who have looked at

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote safe zones that people have been told

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Speaker 1: to move to in the past in fact, Rafa was

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Speaker 1: one of these safe zones that people were originally told

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Speaker 1: to move to. And now you have this long threatened

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Speaker 1: invasion occurring. Let's go ahead and put this next element

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Speaker 1: up on the screen. Give you a little bit of

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Speaker 1: background here, because this ground invasion came immediately after Hamas

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Speaker 1: had actually accepted a ceasefire proposal, and the details of

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Speaker 1: that proposal are very clear. The US was involved in

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Speaker 1: helping to negotiate this along with Egypt and Katar, and

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of details about three different phases,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. The bottom line here is that

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Speaker 1: Hamas wanted to release all of the hostages in order

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Speaker 1: to secure an end of the war. So all the

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Speaker 1: reporting is that the Israelis, after Netanyahu, really went out

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Speaker 1: of his way to try to scuttle this deal, to

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Speaker 1: try to sabotage it, as we covered yesterday, by announcing

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Speaker 1: after there was some indications Hamas might be favorable towards

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Speaker 1: the deal, by announcing really clearly, no, no, no, We're going

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Speaker 1: into Rafa no matter what, as an attempt to undercut it.

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Speaker 1: Also by banning Al Jazeera that Al Jazeera obviously a

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Speaker 1: product of linked to the Katari government. That was an

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Speaker 1: effort to piss off Gatar as well to try to

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Speaker 1: undercut this deal, because Bebie's whole play is to pretend

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Speaker 1: like he's opened to a ceasefire deal for the international audience,

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Speaker 1: but to really do everything to block it, and of

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Speaker 1: course exposes the lie that they you know this thing

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Speaker 1: that we've heard a million times, Oh, if Hamas just

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Speaker 1: released the hostages, the war could be over tomorrow. Well

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Speaker 1: here's Ama saying, hey, we'll release all the hostages, and

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Speaker 1: isral Is like, no, we want to continue the war

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Speaker 1: and we're going to go ahead right now with this

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Speaker 1: invasion of Rafa. Let me just put the next piece

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Speaker 1: up on the screen and I'm I get your reaction, Sager.

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Speaker 1: So the Israeli media, after they were kind of stunned

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Speaker 1: by this Hamas acceptance of the proposal, Israeli media started

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Speaker 1: reporting that Israel was not likely to accept a ceasefire deal.

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Speaker 1: They claimed it was softened or one sided Egyptian version.

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Speaker 1: But again, we actually we have all the details of

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Speaker 1: what this deal entailed, and it is release of all

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Speaker 1: the hostages, which is something that Israel demanded. The key

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Speaker 1: sticking point is that the Hamas side wants the war

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Speaker 1: to end and the Israeli side wants the war to continue.

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Speaker 1: One side actually wants a ceasefire and the other doesn't.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of an irreconcilable difference.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's basically where we're at. This is a complicated backstory.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of sniping. People are saying this is

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Speaker 2: a Hamas pr move. According to the Israelis, Basically the

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Speaker 2: background appears to be this, this was a ceasefire proposal

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Speaker 2: that was given by the Egyptians in Cairo with the

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Speaker 2: input and knowledge of the United States.

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Speaker 3: Hamas sees this deal and they're like, cool, we're in.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're on that.

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Speaker 2: You already saw the details, crystal, which you put up

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Speaker 2: there on the screen. According to the Israelis, they were

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Speaker 2: never aware of that, and according to them, the US

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Speaker 2: never delivered the details of that proposal to them, and

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Speaker 2: the first they had heard of it is after Hamas

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Speaker 2: had accepted that. Now the US Western diplomats behind the

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Speaker 2: scenes were leaking and saying that's not true, actually at all,

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Speaker 2: we did communicate the details of that. They were under

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Speaker 2: consideration whenever Hamas accepted that deal. Another point against the

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Speaker 2: Israelis is they didn't have anybody in Cairo, so it's

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Speaker 2: their fault that they had nobody at the table with

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Speaker 2: Hamas and with Egypt and all the other negotiators, despite

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Speaker 2: the fact that the US has been begging them to

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Speaker 2: come and to be available. Because Israel is not blaming

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Speaker 2: the United States for being bamboozled into a situation where they,

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Speaker 2: according to them, have been screwed because Hamas agreed to

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Speaker 2: a ceasefire deal that they view not as acceptable. There's

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Speaker 2: also a sticking point right now around the number of

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Speaker 2: hostage just to be released. The Hamas counteroffer was that

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Speaker 2: they'll release thirty three hostages. That these thirty three, though

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Speaker 2: are some are alive and some are dead. The Israelis say, no,

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Speaker 2: we want forty hostages in the first deal, but they

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Speaker 2: all have to be alive. I don't know, you know

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Speaker 2: exactly who is telling the truth. It obviously is conceivable

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Speaker 2: that some of these hostages have sadly perish either from

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Speaker 2: you know, malnutrition, from bombing.

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Speaker 1: They've been in an a war zone for a semele more.

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Speaker 2: We're in bad captivity and we have no idea, right

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Speaker 2: you know, in terms of it's been a long time

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Speaker 2: since somebody has actually been released from Hummas. There's been

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Speaker 2: some proof of life images and all that that have

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Speaker 2: been released. So my only point is that in terms

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Speaker 2: of the background on all of this, there is a

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Speaker 2: lot of pointing fingers, but the end result is clear

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Speaker 2: they're using this as a pretext to go forward with

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Speaker 2: the Rafa invasion, and I do think that it's a

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Speaker 2: tremendous mistake from the international community side. We can put

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Speaker 2: this up there on the screen, for example, just if

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Speaker 2: you look at the wording of their justification. The war

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Speaker 2: cabinet has unanimously decided that Israel continues the operation to

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Speaker 2: exert military pressure on Hamas in order to promote the

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Speaker 2: release of our hostages and the other goals of the war.

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Speaker 1: They already agree to the release of the host amas.

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Speaker 2: He's like, no, no, no, we'll give you the hostages though,

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Speaker 2: and they're like, but you know, we're squabbling over seven

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Speaker 2: whether some are alive or dead. I'm not saying that

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Speaker 2: stuff isn't important, but I think we should point crystal

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Speaker 2: to the fact that there are massive protests in Israel

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Speaker 2: calling for the acceptance of this. To show you that

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Speaker 2: the members of hostages themselves, family members are pleading with

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Speaker 2: them to.

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Speaker 3: Take this deal. So that's very important to underscore.

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Speaker 1: A couple things to add to that. So I want

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Speaker 1: to read Mooing Raboni's ad, a fantastic lengthy thread on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: I just want to read a small portion of it

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Speaker 1: because it gets to what's really going on here. He says,

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Speaker 1: among the key sticking points in the negotiations is that

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Speaker 1: Hamas demanded an end to Israel's war, well Israel insisted

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Speaker 1: on continuing it. That's, like I said, kind of an

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Speaker 1: irreconcilable difference when one side wants to cease fire on

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Speaker 1: the other side does not want to cease fire. He

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Speaker 1: goes on to say, given this contradiction, the mediators could

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Speaker 1: not incorporate explicit wording that either ended or failed to

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Speaker 1: end the war and still clinched the deal. What appears

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Speaker 1: to have happened is that a sufficiently vague formula was

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Speaker 1: included in the proposal, paired with informal American assurances that

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Speaker 1: if Hamas implemented the first stages of the three stage deal,

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Speaker 1: Washington would guarantee an Israeli cessation of hostilities by the

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Speaker 1: end of its final stage. So Basically, the Americans were like, listen,

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Speaker 1: we can't put into this deal that it will definitively

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Speaker 1: end the war. But trust us, we're going to make

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Speaker 1: sure that there is a permanent cessation of hostilities. That

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Speaker 1: we didn't even get to covering this because it happened

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Speaker 1: on like Thursday, Friday, Saturday somewhere in that timeframe when

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Speaker 1: we were off air, that actually leaked out that the

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Speaker 1: Americans were telling Hamas like, no, this is actually going

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Speaker 1: to end the war, even though the language doesn't explicitly

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Speaker 1: say that in the deal. Then the Israelis come out.

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Speaker 1: That's when you get BB saying no, absolutely not, and

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Speaker 1: we're still going into rafa et cetera, et cetera, which

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Speaker 1: was an attempt basically to kill the deal because he

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Speaker 1: doesn't actually want a deal. And just to be really

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Speaker 1: clear about the hostage situation. So first of all, the

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Speaker 1: Israelis are also holding thousands of Palestinians. We've covered here

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Speaker 1: and many other news outlets have covered the abhorrent conditions

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Speaker 1: they've been kept in under, including torture and sexual abuse.

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Speaker 1: You actually just recently had a doctor from Gaza who

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Speaker 1: died from the torture that was from being tortured in

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Speaker 1: Israeli custody. So those Palestinian hostages are also part of

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Speaker 1: this deal. And while there are may be some quibbling

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Speaker 1: about how many hostages in phase one, phase two, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: very clear that Hamas has as part of this deal,

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Speaker 1: accepted releasing all of the hostages and all of the

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Speaker 1: remains of the hostages. Know one thing, Sager, that I've

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Speaker 1: been thinking about. I was talking to Yegor about this too.

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Speaker 1: He had the same thought, which is a really dark thought,

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Speaker 1: which is is I don't actually think that bib Netnaho

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Speaker 1: or the rest of the war cabinet wants these remaining

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Speaker 1: hostages to be released and talk about what their experience

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Speaker 1: was like, because basically their experience was having their lives

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Speaker 1: risked by their own government, being left in a war

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Speaker 1: zone for seven months god knows, and what conditions God

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Speaker 1: knows what sort of injuries they sustained from, potentially IDF

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Speaker 1: bombing and starvation, And I'm not sure that that's a

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Speaker 1: political reality that bib Netnaho wants to deal with.

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Speaker 2: Well, that happened last time around, right whenever we had

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Speaker 2: the previous tranch of hostages that were released, they were

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Speaker 2: all were like, you were literally bombing us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then three of them were killed.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think that the family members of these

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Speaker 2: people know that, for example, we can play this video please.

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Speaker 2: This happened immediately after Hamas accepted the ceasefire. This is

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Speaker 2: in Hebrews, so we'll just read you a translation. But

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Speaker 2: the families of these prisoners are saying Hamas has agreed

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Speaker 2: to the deal.

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Speaker 3: The government must agree now, otherwise we will burn the country.

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Speaker 2: And there actually were massive demonstrations last night in Tel

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Speaker 2: Aviv and across the entire country, led by many members

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Speaker 2: of the hostage families that were begging for the government

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Speaker 2: to take that deal. Because I think you're right. I

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Speaker 2: think look the smart ones they know and they can

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Speaker 2: see it. Now. I'm not saying all of them are

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Speaker 2: unanimously of some of that opinion. I know some have

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Speaker 2: come out with a different opinion as well, But you

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Speaker 2: could also see there is a widespread celebration at the

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Speaker 2: population level on both sides of this conflict at the

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Speaker 2: idea of a ceasefire. Maybe not the Israeli government. Here,

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Speaker 2: we have a video came out in the immediate aftermath

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Speaker 2: that we can go ahead and play This was actually

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Speaker 2: in Rafa the immediately after it was announced that a

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Speaker 2: ceasefire was agreed to. You know, obviously these people didn't

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Speaker 2: know what was coming in the immediate aftermath, which was

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Speaker 2: the invasion. But it's important just to point out there

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Speaker 2: that there is obviously a widespread want, not just at

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Speaker 2: the Palestinian level, but at the Israeli level for a

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Speaker 2: cease fire.

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Speaker 3: But the problem is the government. Crystal.

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Speaker 2: You pulled this clip which is one of the most

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Speaker 2: insane things I've ever seen. Let's go ahead and play

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Speaker 2: it that we have here. This is Simon Boucair. He's

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Speaker 2: the vice chairman of the World Licued Arm of the party,

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Speaker 2: and he says, here the abductee families, they're going to

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Speaker 2: be murdered. They see what we're doing, and so then

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Speaker 2: they're asking him and what they should be done. He says,

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Speaker 2: I think we should have gone into Rafa already to

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Speaker 2: get in, and they go okay, and then what happens.

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Speaker 2: He says that they'll pop up from under the ground.

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Speaker 2: There are no uninvolved civilians. You have to go in

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Speaker 2: and kill and kill and kill, and she says, okay,

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Speaker 2: I got it. Will that bring back the hostages? And

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Speaker 2: he says we will then kill them before they get us.

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Speaker 2: And they say, well, are you going to get the hostages?

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Speaker 2: And he says, at the end, we will try to

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Speaker 2: get them. So again, this is the international arm of

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Speaker 2: the Bevinis and Yahoo Party who is on Channel twelve

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Speaker 2: Israeli News Crystal. He's saying this out in the open.

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Speaker 2: I think the hostage families at this point no and

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Speaker 2: hear this, and that's why there's so much consternation in Israel.

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Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, yeah, this is this view is not it's

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Speaker 1: fairly prevalent in terms of hard right factions in Israel,

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Speaker 1: and it is almost a unanimous view, I would say,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the actual Israeli government administration. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we talk a lot, and I think understandably so about

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Speaker 1: bebing Net Nahu's calculations and how he wants the war

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Speaker 1: to keep going because he needs to do that to

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Speaker 1: keep his grip on power. But we should make no

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Speaker 1: bones about it. The war cabinet voted unit, including quote

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Speaker 1: unquote moderates, voted unanimously to invade Rapa. So you know

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Speaker 1: they have their own political calculation, they're own ideology too.

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Speaker 1: They are all now as being part of the war Cabinet.

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Speaker 1: They are all responsible for the conduct of this war.

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Speaker 1: They know they have not accomplished the purported objectives that

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Speaker 1: they set out to accomplish. So they have just as

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Speaker 1: much invested in keeping the brutality going as anyone else.

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Speaker 1: They have as much invested in making sure these hostages

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Speaker 1: can never come out and tell their story, frankly, as

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Speaker 1: anyone else. And that is at odds with the population.

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Speaker 1: When we brought you some pulling that even right leaning

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Speaker 1: members of Israeli society think that we should prioritize getting

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Speaker 1: our hostages back, even if it means sending the word,

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Speaker 1: even if it means new elections, we want our hostages home.

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Speaker 1: And you see that sentiment certainly expressed in the street.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we're talking about huge protests, tons of

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Speaker 1: thousands of people in the street saying okay, Hamas said, yes,

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Speaker 1: they give us our hostages back. What the hell are

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Speaker 1: you waiting for? And so, you know, a couple more

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Speaker 1: things to say about this. First of all, Saga you

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Speaker 1: said this was being framed as like a Hamas pr move.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's I think that's fair in a

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Speaker 1: certain regard, because I think they had every expectation that

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Speaker 1: BB's government and by the way, US officials also were

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Speaker 1: leaking to this press that they weren't engaged in good

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Speaker 1: faith in these negotiations, that they have no intention of

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Speaker 1: taking the deal. And so I think in a sense

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Speaker 1: they did say, Okay, we're going to call your pluff.

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Speaker 1: We're to say yes even to this deal that doesn't

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Speaker 1: explicitly say the end of the war. We're going to

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Speaker 1: take the American assurances for it, which you know, right

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend, but anyway, we're going to take America's

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Speaker 1: word for it. This will actually result in a sensation

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Speaker 1: of hostilities. We're going to say yes to a ceasefire

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Speaker 1: and put the ball in your court. Bb Net, Yahoo,

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Speaker 1: what are you going to do now? Because now it

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Speaker 1: is exposed the entire world that all you're bullshit about

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Speaker 1: concern for hostages and hey, if the if they return

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Speaker 1: the hostages, the war can end tomorrow. This was all

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Speaker 1: complete and unor not. So this has been clear for

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Speaker 1: a while, but now it's undeniable, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: undeniable to the Israeli population as well. The last thing

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Speaker 1: that's really important to say about this is Biden has

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Speaker 1: been sounding the oppositional alarm to a ground invasion into

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Speaker 1: Rafa for months now. He even sort of kind of

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Speaker 1: said it was a red line before immediately saying I'll

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Speaker 1: never leave Israel, but he sort of kind of said

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Speaker 1: Rafa was a red line. We've heard about these tough

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Speaker 1: conversations from Blincoln just recently and Jake Sullivan and co.

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Speaker 1: And these sort of vague threats that hey, we may

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Speaker 1: even change US policy, we may not have unconditional support

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Speaker 1: if you go into Rafa. If you especially if you

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Speaker 1: go in a way that we don't like, well guess

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Speaker 1: what they're doing it. So, Joe Biden, what are you

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Speaker 1: going to say? What are you going to do? This

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Speaker 1: is a direct rebuke. This is bebe calling your bluff

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Speaker 1: and saying, yeah, you expressed concern about some other things

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Speaker 1: in the past either and at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: you did nothing. You did exactly what we wanted you

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Speaker 1: to do, and that's exactly what we think is going

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Speaker 1: to happen now. So in that manner, the ball is

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Speaker 1: now in Joe Biden's court. Do your words of concern

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Speaker 1: mean anything? Does your supposed red line doesn't mean anything

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Speaker 1: at all? Are you just going to let the Israelis

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Speaker 1: get away with literally fit anything they want, anytime they want,

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Speaker 1: till the end of time, unconditional support, no matter what,

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Speaker 1: no matter how humiliating it is for you, no matter

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Speaker 1: how awful it is for Palestinians. That's the real question

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Speaker 1: that's on the table right now.

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Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely, I mean it's humiliating for him that the

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Speaker 2: fact that it even happened. And so even if he

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Speaker 2: which you very likely is going to be unable to

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Speaker 2: bring to the brink. So I think we all know

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Speaker 2: which way things are headed.

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Speaker 1: This is also another extraordinary story we didn't want to

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Speaker 1: lose sight of we had covered previously. There's kind of

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Speaker 1: a freak out going on in the net Nyahu government

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Speaker 1: right now about possible arrest warrants being issued for net

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Speaker 1: nyahuu yoav Gowan and a few other individuals and possibly

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Speaker 1: Hamas leaders as well, coming from the International Criminal Court.

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Speaker 1: So let's put this up on the screen. The ICC

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Speaker 1: issued this rather extraordinary statement warning any entities against bullying

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Speaker 1: and threatening them. Let me read you some of this.

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Speaker 1: They say. The Office of the Prosecutors where their significant

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Speaker 1: public interest in its investigation. It welcomes comments communication of

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Speaker 1: concerns and engagement in its activities. But they go on

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Speaker 1: to say independence and impartiality cannot be undermined, and they

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Speaker 1: are when individuals threaten to retaliate against the Court or

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Speaker 1: against court personnel should the Office and fulfillment of its

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Speaker 1: mandate make decisions about investigations or cases falling within its jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: Such threats, even when not acted upon, may also constitute

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Speaker 1: an offense against the administration of justice under Article seventy

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Speaker 1: of the Rome Statute. That provision explicitly prohibits both retaliating

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Speaker 1: against an official of the Court on account of duties

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Speaker 1: performed by that or another official, and impeding, intimidating, or

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Speaker 1: corruptly influencing an official of the Court for the purpose

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Speaker 1: of forcing or persuading the official not to perform or

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Speaker 1: to perform them properly his or her duties. They conclude,

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Speaker 1: the Office insists that all attempts to impede, intimidate, or

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Speaker 1: improperly influence its officials cease immediately. So they put this

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Speaker 1: out and everyone was like, hmm, okay, what is what's

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Speaker 1: going on? What is this about? Now we had some

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Speaker 1: guesses because there had already been some reports about you know,

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Speaker 1: these railies using all the tools they had about the

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Speaker 1: US pressuring the ICC. But now we have these specific

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Speaker 1: details of what this likely was in reference to, and

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Speaker 1: this is really quite extraordinary. Let's put this up on

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Speaker 1: the screen. This scoop came courtesy of Zeteo, that's Maddie

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Speaker 1: Hassen's new news outlet. He got a hold of a

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00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: letter that was sent from a number of high profile

433
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 1: Republican centers, including Mitch McConnell, that directly threatened the ICC

434
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 1: prosecutor and threatened their family members. This is this is

435
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 1: really crazy. Let me read you a little bit of this.

436
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,959
Speaker 1: They say in a terse one page letter obtained exclusively

437
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: by Zeteo and signed by twelve GOP senators, including Tom Cotton,

438
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 1: Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz Kahn. That's the prosecutor is informed

439
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: that any attempt by the ICC to hold net in

440
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: Yahoo and as colleagues to account for their actions in

441
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: Gaza will be interpreted not only as a threat to

442
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: israel sovereignty, but to the sovereignty of the United States.

443
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: Quote target Israel, and we will target you, adding they

444
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 1: will sanction your employees and associates and ban you and

445
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: your families from the United States. The letter concludes, quote

446
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: you have been warned, so I mean direct threats being

447
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: made against the ICC, their employees, their family members, direct

448
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 1: threats made by these twelve Republican senators. They got a

449
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: statement response from Democratic Senator Chris mann Holland, who said, quote,

450
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: it's fine to express opposition to possible judicial action, but

451
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: it is absolutely wrong to interfere in a judicial manner

452
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: by threatening judicial officers, their family members, their employees with retribution.

453
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: This thuggery is something befitting the mafia, not US senators.

454
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: So pretty wild this situation.

455
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: I was not aware of something called the Hague Invasion Act,

456
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 2: which authorizes the US President to use all means necessary

457
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 2: and appropriate to bring about the release not just of

458
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: US persons, but also allies who are imprisoned or detained

459
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: by the ICC. Who wants to guess who signed that

460
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 2: one into Lodge George W. Book two thousand and two. Now, look,

461
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 2: if it's one thing. If it's it's one thing, if

462
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 2: the ICC is attacking and going after US service members,

463
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: for US to exert extraordinary influence to prevent that, it's

464
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: another thing to do so on behalf of a foreign

465
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: nation who is not even a treaty ally who we

466
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 2: have no obligation actually I legally to defend at all.

467
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: It's just the quote unquote non but like, just so

468
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 2: people understand, Israel has the same treaty designation or ally

469
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 2: designation as Argentina, So you know, just so everybody understands

470
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 2: that in terms of our actual obligations the country. Now,

471
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 2: as we can see here though very clearly, they are

472
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: saying that this would constitute an attack on the US itself,

473
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 2: where further evidence of dual loyalty and of exactly how

474
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: much these people are willing to you know, basically expend

475
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 2: extraordinary US effort and influence on behalf of the Israeli government.

476
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 3: It's just crazy.

477
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's in part too because there is

478
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: some risks because the US has been so involved in

479
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: this assault on Gaza. So they're not crazy to see

480
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: this as like this could be a problem for US too,

481
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: given what we've known about these war crimes, given the

482
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 1: you know, overwhelming support in Congress and from the presidential

483
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: level to ship these weapons in contravention of US law,

484
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: leave alone international law. So I don't think they're crazy

485
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: to see this is like this could be a problem

486
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: for US too. And speaking of the Hague Invasion Act,

487
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: they actually name check it has some other like sort

488
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: of like Orwellian name like the service Member Protection Act

489
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: or something like that, is the official name. The nickname

490
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: for it is the Hague Invasion Act because it, as

491
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: it indicates, authorizes military action in the event that you know,

492
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: our service members were detained or any there was any

493
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: sort of you know, threat to quote unquote US sovereignty.

494
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: So it authorizes extraordinary measures. And they're saying that this

495
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: could be invoked. The Hague Invasion Act could be invoked

496
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: even if there are just arrest warrants for Bibi Yahu

497
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: yoav Goalan, et cetera. So this is this is wild,

498
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: Like this is really wild. And I guess it also

499
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: does speak to the fact that it's easy to dismiss

500
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 1: like UN resolutions and whatever. Is like they don't have

501
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: any you know, they don't have a police force. What

502
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: do they gotta do. They're not going to actually arrest

503
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: net Nyahu or whatever. Clearly from the freakout from these individuals,

504
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: the direct threats that are being issued in this letter

505
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: and the freakount that's been reported on from the Israeli side,

506
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 1: they clearly think it means something. They clearly feel like

507
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: this is not a little nothing that they can just

508
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: handwave by.

509
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I've said this before.

510
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody will get arrested or anything is

511
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 2: going to happen. But international isolation is a problem. And

512
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: that's really what they're more afraid of than anything is.

513
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: They just want to be able to I mean, what

514
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 2: does anybody want. They will a land without having to

515
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: even worry or negotiate or have the US to excerpt influences.

516
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 2: Ultimately what they want bbe also backing this, putting this

517
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 2: up on the screen. Please Yesterday was actually Holocaust Remembrance

518
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 2: Day in Israel, and Netsan Yahu, in his message frankly,

519
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 2: in a very insulting message to all of us, says, quote,

520
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: Israel will defend itself even if it is forced to

521
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: stand alone. Now, if this was a country that had

522
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: not received more military aid than any other country literally

523
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,479
Speaker 2: in the world from the United States, it would be

524
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: one thing. But this is a country that owes not

525
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 2: only its foundation and its existence, but every military development

526
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: post nineteen seventy two to the United States taxpayer. So

527
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 2: the idea that they're forced to stand alone and it's

528
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: just them against the world is bullshit.

529
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just insulting to us.

530
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: And they just say that like as if their isolation

531
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 2: at this point is a real because not if you

532
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 2: look at the way that the West is supporting them

533
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 2: to be to sell this idea that it's like oppositional,

534
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 2: when in reality they are the greatest benefactors of the

535
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 2: US superpower then probably maybe any other nation in the

536
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: history of the world. So anyway, it just shows you

537
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: that their foundational myth is like we stand alone. We

538
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: stand where the underdoge, where the undergo said, come on, man,

539
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: like you know not whenever you've been we've been funding.

540
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: Your own country wouldn't even exist without us.

541
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 3: It's literally the case, actually true.

542
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: The UN partition plan was originally passed. It only came

543
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: after we like bullied and coerced and threatened a few

544
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: countries to demand their vote. Okay, So I mean it's

545
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: just ridiculous, but it does speak to this sense of

546
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: constant victory. We're the only legitimate victims. That's no. Number one.

547
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: Everything that we do has to be seen in the

548
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: context of the horrors of the Holocaust, and so since

549
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: that horror was done to us, we can never be

550
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: the ones perpetrating the horse. No matter what we do,

551
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: we get a free pass. That's number one. And number

552
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: two this self conception, which you know, people like like

553
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: Christian Zionists like Joe Biden others also buy into this

554
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: like outdated notion of which was never really accurate. Of

555
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: Israel as the underdog, as the you know, the David

556
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: against the Goliath, which is a preposterous concept when you

557
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: look at the power disparity between them and the Palestinians

558
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: at this point. So but he said, specifically in this

559
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: message with regard to the ICC, he said, which also

560
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: speaks to that dual like you know, victimhood and underdog situation.

561
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: Issuing arrest warrants for Israeli officials would leave an indelible

562
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: stain on the edifice of international law and justice. He stressed,

563
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: the ICC was founded as a consequence of the Holocaust

564
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: and should not attempt to undermine Israel's fundamental right to

565
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: self defense. So again, and the ideas like because of

566
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: the Holocaust, we can do no wrong. This institution isn't

567
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: about making sure that the laws applied equally no matter

568
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: who does it in making sure these whoors that were

569
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: perpetrated against us that nothing like it can happen to

570
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: anyone in the world. No, no, no, this was set

571
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: up explicitly to like give us a pass and make

572
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: sure that it's never done specifically to us. Which again

573
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: I want to reiterate that the reporting is that the

574
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: ic C of rust wots if they come, which is

575
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: a big if. The reporting is that they will likely

576
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: be against Israeli officials and Hummas leaders. So keep that

577
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: in mind as this is all unfolding.

578
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: All said, all.

579
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: Right, let's turn to the Trump trials. So some major developments.

580
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: Donald Trump being held in contempt again giving a speech

581
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 2: where he says he is very happy to serve in jail.

582
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 2: Let's take a listen to what he said.

583
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 4: And it's a disgrace. And then you have the other

584
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 4: thing that maybe is even more disgraces, the gag order

585
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 4: where I can't basically I have to watch every word

586
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 4: I tend to do. People, you ask big question, a

587
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 4: simple question, I'd like to give it, but I can't

588
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 4: talk about it because judge just give me a gag

589
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 4: order and say you'll go to jail if you violated,

590
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 4: and frankly, you know what, our constitution is much more

591
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 4: important than jail.

592
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:32,959
Speaker 3: It's not even close.

593
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: So our constitution is more important in jail, It's not

594
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: even close. Allegedly, and further going on saying that he

595
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 2: would be happy to do it. Let's put this up

596
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 2: there on the screen. This happens after Trump has been

597
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: fined for contempt the tenth time now in the trial,

598
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 2: has been fined one thousand dollars each time a sternest

599
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: warning yet from the judge who says that clearly the

600
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: money is not enough and that future gag order violations

601
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: would send him to jail. So obviously that is pretty

602
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: significant because the thousand dollars in the exactly cracking the

603
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: wallet of Donald Trump, he especially with all of his

604
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: truth social stock. But this is kind of overtaken the

605
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: fact that there have been some significant developments in the

606
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: trial itself. The most significant testimony actually happened on Friday.

607
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: I've been wanting to give everybody an update. Let's go

608
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: ahead and put this up there on the screen. It

609
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: entails Hope Hicks wants his most closest advisor, his communications

610
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,719
Speaker 2: director in the White House. She was integral to the

611
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 2: entire operation. She gave a tearful testimony at times over

612
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 2: two hours quote with a behind the scenes glimpse into

613
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: how his inner circle operated and responded to negative media stories.

614
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: So Hicks actually was testifying there about learning about the

615
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: Access Hollywood tape, about what the inside of how they

616
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: learned about the Karen McDougall story, who previously also alleged

617
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: an affair with Donald Trump, and then also Michael Cohen's

618
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: role in the Stormy Daniel's hush money payment. So Hicks,

619
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: despite being one of Trump's closest advisor's crystal called here

620
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: to trial to try and offer evidence as to the

621
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: fact that this was a payment given to Stormy Daniels

622
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: motivated purely by the campaign and not as Trump is

623
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: alleging that it was a personal expense that was done

624
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 2: on his behalf.

625
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, a lot was made of the

626
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: fact she was very emotional. Reportedly she's still quite loyal

627
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: to Trump. I mean, this is someone who's known him

628
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: from times. She was quite a young woman, you know,

629
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: thrust into the spotlight and into this big national position,

630
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: and really was especially in the early days of the

631
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: Trump presidency, just at the heart of everything that was

632
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: going on, and you know, in terms of what impact

633
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: it has on the trial, I think it's significant her

634
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: testifying to the nature of the campaign and how they

635
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: operated from just a you know, interest remembering that time.

636
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,239
Speaker 1: It was also really fascinating to hear her perspective on

637
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: what happened the day that they got, you know, the

638
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: media inquiry about hey, you want to respond to this

639
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: whole Access Hollywood tape. They first got the transcript from

640
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: the Washington Post. She's reading through it and is like,

641
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: this is terrible. And her first thing that she sends

642
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: to everyone is we need to deny, deny. Very quickly,

643
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: they also get the video and realize, okay, that's probably

644
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: not going to be a workable strategy, and she takes

645
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: you into the room where she's the person who has

646
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: to talk to Trump about what is about to come out.

647
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: She said in her testimony. I shared the email with

648
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: mister Trump sort of verbally, and we were at the time,

649
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: based on the conversation outside the conference room, trying to

650
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: get a copy of the audio or the tape to

651
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: assess the situation further. We weren't sure yet how to respond.

652
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: We were kind of just trying to gather more information.

653
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 1: Everyone was observing the shock of it than She's asked.

654
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: When you say you shared the content verbally, did you

655
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: read mister Trump the email you receive from mister Farrenhold.

656
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: He was the reporter who had asked for comment on this,

657
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: She says, I write him in the email. I have

658
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: a rag recollection of starting to read the transcript, and

659
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: then he finished reading it himself. I believe did you

660
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: hand the email for him to read? Yes, that's my recollection.

661
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: And what if anything did he said say? He said

662
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: that it didn't sound like something he would say. Oh really,

663
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: it definitely sounds like something you would say, and obviously

664
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: it's on tape, but I mean it is. It's extraordinary.

665
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: She says. She was stunned, hard to describe. It was

666
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: definitely concerning. I had, you know, a good sense this

667
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: is going to be a massive story and sort of

668
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: dominate the news cycle for the next several days at least,

669
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: And she indicates it was a damaging development. This is

670
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: all the reason this is relevant to this case, because

671
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: you might think, like, why are they talking to This

672
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 1: isn't actually directly related to the Stormy Daniels thing is

673
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: to provide insight into the way that they reacted to

674
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: negative stories that would come out about Trump, especially with

675
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: regards to any sort of like you know, sexual relationships

676
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: or commentary, et cetera, and how much they understood these

677
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: things could be damaging to the campaign, because remember, the

678
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: core this question is, okay, was this payment, these payments

679
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: to Stormy Daniels, Should these have been a campaign expense

680
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,720
Speaker 1: or were there other reasons that Trump they have wanted

681
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: to bury the story, like for example, his wife not

682
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: you know, him not wanting his wife to find out.

683
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: So that's why this piece is relevant, trying to provide

684
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: context of like, yes, this was all about the campaign. Yes,

685
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: when these Neggat stories would come out, they realized they

686
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: were really damaging, they moved you did whatever they could

687
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: to try to mitigate that damage, et cetera, et cetera.

688
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: And the speculation about why Hope was a much. I mean,

689
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: anyone could kind of relate and understand. But this is

690
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: someone she feels loyal to, and here she is testifying

691
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: on the stand and feeling like she's providing information that's

692
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 1: likely damaging. I think that's probably why it was difficult

693
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: for her on the stand.

694
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 2: Absolutely I will say she did give some evidence that

695
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: would help be helpful for Trump. I mean in terms

696
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: of reasonable doubt. She said that Donald Trump was concerned

697
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 2: about the impact of the Stormy Daniel's news on Malania Trump,

698
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: his wife, and apparently said he was very concerned about

699
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: how it would be viewed by his wife and wanted

700
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 2: to make sure the newspapers weren't delivered to the residents

701
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: that morning. And quote the former president really values his

702
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 2: wife's opinion, so giving at least room possibly for reasonable doubt.

703
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: One of the things you know, I want to prepare

704
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 2: everybody for is that it is Remember you only need

705
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: one person to declare a mistrial or a hung jury.

706
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 2: Like it's very possible to create reasonable doubt. I think

707
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: he's actually presented despite all the craziness around it, you know,

708
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: enough reasonable doubt for at least maybe one or two

709
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 2: so called impartial people to say, yeah, maybe he did

710
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 2: do it for you know, for personal reasons, and that's

711
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: all you really need to actually win this. Let's put

712
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen. Trump is trying to

713
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: turn this to really to his political advantage.

714
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 3: Quote.

715
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: Trump escalates a tax on prosecutors, says that the Democrats

716
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 2: run a quote Gestapo administration. This was actually made at

717
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: a fundraiser. My favorite part of the fundraiser, Crystal is

718
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 2: he said, anyone who donates a million dollars here at

719
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 2: this fundraiser can come up here and can say whatever

720
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 2: they want. And he was taken up on it by

721
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: a couple of people. So effective strategy. One million dollar

722
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 2: donation right now, I will let you come up and speak.

723
00:37:58,880 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 3: Quote.

724
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: Two donors then came to the stage and told the

725
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: crowd Donald J. Trump is the person that God has chosen.

726
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: Oh so, I don't know who you are with a

727
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: million dollars with beliefs like that and a million dollars

728
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 2: in disposable income.

729
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 3: But I guess I.

730
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: Guess money really is speech. Soaga, there we go.

731
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 2: That's right, pretty amazing. Our main takeaway again here is

732
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: that Trump. I've seen a lot of analysis on this.

733
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: I'm curious what you think. Trump seems to believe that

734
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 2: him getting rested would create another mar A Lago type moment,

735
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 2: or being thrown in jail would create a mar A

736
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 2: Lago type moment where it would force again the Republican

737
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: Party to co list around him the same way that

738
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 2: we had the mar A Lago raid. You already see

739
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: evidence that Ron DeSantis is meeting with Donald Trump and

740
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: doing campaign events set in the future on the schedule together.

741
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 2: You haven't seen Nicky Haley or any of those others come.

742
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: But he remembers how mar A Lago really saved him

743
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 2: back and I was in November of twenty twenty two,

744
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 2: and he believes you can recreate that if he was

745
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: held in contempt and sent to jail and turn it

746
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: into a free speech thing.

747
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: So you're ann that's what ye Yeah, yeah, I don't know,

748
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: but your analysis is that he's repeatedly violating the gag

749
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: order to sort of intentionally court getting thrown in prison.

750
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 2: I think it's possible because I don't know what's the

751
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: other possible reason.

752
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 3: I mean, nobody, because he's just beyond.

753
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: Pops off of the mouth all the freaking time. Other thing.

754
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: It's just like wildly undisciplined. Because I mean, if I

755
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: don't I think that's possible too, that he is actually

756
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: wants the spectacle of getting thrown into jail and is

757
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: like kind of asking for it. I think that is possible. Yeah,

758
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a particularly wise strategy. I wouldn't

759
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: do it either, because it's one thing in the context

760
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: of a Republican primary, right, Yes, that rallied all the

761
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: troops around him. In the context of Republican primary in

762
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: general election, I think it's very different political dynamic. He's

763
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: already got all Republicans on board. I don't think DeSantis,

764
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, coming on board as any surprise or has

765
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: really anything to do with this trial. It's just like, yeah,

766
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: he's the nominee, he's very possibly the next president. If

767
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a political future, I better make

768
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: things right with this dude. So that was always going

769
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: to happen. So that piece I don't think is really connected.

770
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, the prospect of Trump actually getting thrown into jail,

771
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: you know, it just brings this story to the forefront

772
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: of the public. It provides images of him actually like

773
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: in prison that I don't think are really great for him.

774
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 1: And then the other thing here too, is the reason

775
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: why this latest fine was levied is he was like,

776
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 1: you know, like smearing basically the jury, which I know

777
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be disconnected from the media and not

778
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: know what's going on, but if you're out there just

779
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: like repeatedly going after the jury or the ones that

780
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: are responsible for your fate, or the judge who's very

781
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: important in terms of being responsible for your fate. It's

782
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: not really a great legal strategy, I would say, and

783
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: you're right that he has things to work with legally

784
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 1: in this case. You know, I think, like you said,

785
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: Hope Picks testified in particular with regard to the Karen

786
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: McDougall story, which is relevant here, that's one of the

787
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: catch and kill situations National Inquirer, that he was worried

788
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: about what Malani would think and that that could be,

789
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: you know, a real part of what was going on.

790
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a huge requires a huge leap

791
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 1: of imagination for people to imagine that he didn't want

792
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: his wife to know about his affair with a porn star,

793
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: so legally has things to work with here if he

794
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: genuinely is like trying to get thrown in jail. First

795
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: of all, I'm not sure it's going to work, because

796
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: the judge did indicate that that might be required, but

797
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: also expressed a lot of understandable reluctance about taking what

798
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: would be an absolutely extraordinary step. But I'm also not

799
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: sure that that political analysis from Trump really holds up.

800
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 3: We'll see. All right, let's get to the polling.

801
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: That's something that we also wanted to make sure we

802
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: keep everybody updated on things actually possibly looking up for

803
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: Joe Biden. Always want to show the other side of

804
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: the coin. Let's put this up there on the screen.

805
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 2: Six months out quote a tight presidential race with a

806
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 2: battle between issues and attributes. Trump has a forty six

807
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 2: support amongst US adults and Biden forty four in a

808
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: head to head matchup. But don't let that deceive you

809
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: because as we see here in the graphic in front

810
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 2: of us, this is ABC News IPSOS all adults, it

811
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: shows Trump forty six Biden forty four, but if you

812
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 2: go to registered voters you see forty six to forty five,

813
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: and if you look at likely voters you actually get two.

814
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: All right, how's my hairs?

815
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 3: Gray sor right? Usually we can move last.

816
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 1: That was a little too it's too clangy two one.

817
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: Don't let those numbers deceive you though, as you guys

818
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: can see on the graphic in front of you on

819
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: the right, all adults forty four percent, Biden forty six

820
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 2: percent Trump, but registered voters forty six forty five likely

821
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 2: voters forty nine to forty five for Joe Biden, with

822
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: a huge lead there, four points outside the margin of

823
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 2: error within the likely voter sample. Now obviously that matters

824
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 2: because likely voters of the people were probably going to vote. Now,

825
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 2: the same actual phenomenon comes out even clearer in our

826
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: next piece. Let's put this up there please. This was

827
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: from NPR. Maris just came out out again just a

828
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 2: couple of days ago. The headline there on their poll

829
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: was Democrats if your fascism, Republicans worry about a lack

830
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 2: of values.

831
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 3: But here again, just check this out.

832
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: Among people who say they are definitely voting in November,

833
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: Biden's lead expands to five points, fifty two to forty seven.

834
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 2: The survey shows Biden is doing better with groups that

835
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: they are likely or definitely voting, older voters and college

836
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 2: educated whites in particular. What do I always tell you,

837
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 2: people don't get don't ever bet against suburban ladies and boomers,

838
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 2: and because they'll drag their ask to vote no matter what.

839
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: So I guess and this will be the most basic

840
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 2: election analysis I've ever given. If it's a high turnout election,

841
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: that's going to be really good for Donald Trump because

842
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: it means low propensity voters are coming out to the polls.

843
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 2: If it is a normal or low turnout election like

844
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: let's say twenty twenty two or anything prior, then it's

845
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 2: going to be very good for Joe Biden. Basically people

846
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: who love to vote, like basically Democrats and highly educated

847
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: and boomer if those are disproportionately the number of people

848
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 2: comprise the electorate, and Biden has a huge edge. Best said,

849
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 2: I would never bet against Trump. He has a historic

850
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 2: track record of always being able to bring out people

851
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: who are very low propensity and have never voted in

852
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: the past. So I have no idea. History says one thing.

853
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 2: We have no idea if that's necessarily a good predictor.

854
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it used to be you could kind of

855
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: bacon like, Oh, the polls are understanding Trump's support. We

856
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: really don't know anymore. It's in some of the polls

857
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: they've been under est demanding Democratic support. So it's impossible

858
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: to like even read into the polls what it might

859
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: really mean. But this dynamic of Biden doing better with

860
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: the likely voter screen when the polling companies are trying

861
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: to look at ari who's actually going to show up

862
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 1: and vote versus the overall electorate is a dynamic we've

863
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: been seeing for a while. It's basically remember how back

864
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, I think it was Schumer who famously

865
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: said for every blue collar Democrat we lose in western Pa,

866
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: we'll pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia.

867
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: Can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin. Basically,

868
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: these poles are like, maybe that strategy is finally coming

869
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: to fruition. Maybe that was actually going to work out

870
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 1: for them this time. Maybe. If it is the case,

871
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: I do think abortion is a significant part of that.

872
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: And then also just like you know, the negative sentiment

873
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: around Trump, you know, which one of these men do

874
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: people find to be more distasteful. That's going to be

875
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: a key question here as well. How to young people

876
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: factor into all of this. Who are you know, not

877
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: only disgusted with Biden, but some number have actually shifted

878
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: to Trump. Some number are just like I'm not going

879
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: to vote at all. Some number are like, hey what

880
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: about these third party candidates? That's the other big question

881
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: mark is these numbers were showing you are just the

882
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: head to head they don't have RFK Junior, they don't

883
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 1: have Jill Stein, they don't have Cornell West. What ballots

884
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: are those candidates going to be on? I just I

885
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: just don't know. I just don't know. Like it's seems

886
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: to me that it is really fifty to fifty. Every

887
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: day that I see a like, oh, Biden's doing okay,

888
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: the next day I see a one that's like, oh, oh,

889
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: Trump's winning every swing state. And I think that is

890
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: another thing important thing to bring up, Zager, is it

891
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: seems pretty consistent that the swing state polls appear to

892
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: be better for Donald Trump than Joe Biden, whereas the

893
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: national polls are more of a mixed BacT.

894
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 3: Great point.

895
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and we don't know for sure. Just

896
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: to give some turnout evidence, I just have it in

897
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: front of me. Midterm turnout actually was about fifty two

898
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: percent of the vote in twenty twenty two, but that

899
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 2: is ten points lower than where we were in twenty twenty.

900
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 2: So sixty per sixty three percent of people came out

901
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 2: eligible voters came out to vote in the twenty twenty

902
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 2: election only fifty two percent. That's actually quite high for

903
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 2: a midterm election, but clearly the Democrats had a major

904
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 2: performance advantage with fifty two percent of people come into

905
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 2: the polls in twenty twenty two, So in presidentials they're

906
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 2: usually higher, But is it going to be sixty or

907
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 2: sixty three? There's actually quite a big difference between those numbers,

908
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 2: and you know who they are. But like you said, two,

909
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: the swing voter stuff here really matters. At the same time,

910
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 2: you're like, Okay, I see a poll Arizona ands say

911
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 2: they're fed up with the economy, all that stuff. Well

912
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 2: we saw all of that before twenty twenty two, and

913
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 2: then what happened. They all came out on the elected

914
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: bunch of Democrats, so I could see the exact same

915
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: thing happening. Their state legislature has to try eight times

916
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 2: to overturn a.

917
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 3: Total abortion band. So I'm like, well, I don't know,

918
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 3: you never know you're with them.

919
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: You got a number of states, including Florida that I

920
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: think Trump won by four points. If memory three serves

921
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: three to four, that has a you know, abortion initiative

922
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: on the ballot, that could be impactful. I'm not saying

923
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: Democrats are gonna win Florida, but Biden seems to actually

924
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: do better with old people than young people at this point,

925
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: so you never know which puts. If Florida's in play,

926
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: then you're like, oh, well, this could be a landslide

927
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 1: for Joe Biden. I could honestly see it going either.

928
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: I could see it all going to Joe Biden, like

929
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: all the swing states plus some outlier like Florida. I

930
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: could see it going to the other direction and be

931
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 1: in like a sweep for Trump, perhaps with some assists

932
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: from third party candidates. I could see the third party

933
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: Canid's cutting the other way. We see Trump freaking out

934
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: about RFK Junior right now. I will say just in

935
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,919
Speaker 1: terms of anticipating turnout, I pulling indicates, and I think

936
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: the vibes indicate as well. And what we see in

937
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: terms of response to the you know, horse race segments

938
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: that we do here, people are way less engaged than

939
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 1: they were in twenty twenty, twenty twenty. They're just completely apathetic.

940
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: I don't blame them. I feel the same freakin way.

941
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, what kind of a choice is this that

942
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: we have? Our great democracy and this is the choice

943
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: we have. This is disgusting. So I think people a

944
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: lot of people are like, who really cares? Who cares

945
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: which one of these like terrible people ends up being

946
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: the next president of the United States.

947
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 2: Very important point, and yet we can see it in

948
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: our own data. I mean, you know, our show began

949
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 2: as an election show back in twenty twenty. We know

950
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: just how ripping election coverage can be when people are interested.

951
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: That is not the case these days. And actually we're

952
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: doing better than most national news outlets. In fact, most

953
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 2: national news outlets have had a reduction in their overall

954
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: ratings six months a head of the election, which is

955
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 2: insane because that's never supposed to happen. It didn't happen

956
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, didn't happen in twenty twenty. I mean,

957
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 2: there was even more interest frankly in the twenty twelve election.

958
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 2: You know, at that time, Obama being tested in all that.

959
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember, I'm sure you do too, that

960
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: primary and Mitt Romney and everything.

961
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 3: I think there was.

962
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 1: More interest in like the twenty eighteen mid terms. Yeah,

963
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,240
Speaker 1: I think you're right than it's generally, you know, typically

964
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 1: just in terms of you know, media business whatever. Typically

965
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: there are a few media brands that really and we

966
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: were one of these, that really like establish themselves and

967
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: make themselves in and become known in the context of

968
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: presidential races. I mean, this is the this is the peak.

969
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: Usually the idea is that ratings and interest and clicks

970
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: and views and all of that really spike and are

971
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: an outlier, you know, order magnitude higher in presidential election years.

972
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: And now, I mean, listen, it's it's a little early,

973
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 1: but it's may. It's not that early, and people like

974
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: who cares? And I feel the same way. Frankly, I

975
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: feel the same way.

976
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 2: I agree with you, and just give to give you

977
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: even more evidence here also about how propensity and low

978
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: propensity people may even turn out. We cannot erase RFK Junior.

979
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 2: Let's put this up there on the screen. News Nation

980
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 2: just did a poll. RFK Junior actually more popular. Here

981
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: is showing with younger voters and specifically with Republicans, fifty

982
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 2: seven percent of younger voters say they have a favorable

983
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 2: review of RFK Junior, and amongst Republicans, he's got a

984
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 2: very high approval rating. So let's say that you have

985
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 2: more low propensity anti institutional folks who hate liberals or

986
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 2: hate the Democrats, who want to stick it to somebody. Previously,

987
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: they were just going to vote for Trump in twenty sixteen.

988
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 2: This time around, they may come out and they may

989
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 2: vote for RFK Junior if they do turn out to vote,

990
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 2: So we cannot erase his role either in this election.

991
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 2: There's a lot of X factors, but I agree, I mean,

992
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 2: all indicators are right now is a much lower turnout

993
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 2: than twenty twenty that the interest in a lot of ways.

994
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 3: I mean, this might be.

995
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 2: This almost feels like the nineteen ninety six election, which

996
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 2: I think is the least important election of my lifetime,

997
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,359
Speaker 2: where you're like, eh, you know, you never whichever one

998
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 2: you get.

999
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it won't be.

1000
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 2: Consequential, of course it will, right Like ninety six was

1001
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 2: consequential for a variety of reasons beyond the Gangrich era,

1002
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 2: welfare reform, etc. Like on a policy level, but in

1003
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 2: terms of the way people felt about it, they just

1004
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 2: didn't really care that much. And I think people do

1005
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 2: care this time around, but like you said, know that

1006
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 2: their choices are so limited that they're just turning the

1007
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 2: dial off. Mostly sports coverage, pop culture coverage and all

1008
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 2: of that is record highs, while political coverage is a

1009
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: very very.

1010
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think part of that I think part

1011
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: of it too, is the fact that you basically didn't

1012
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: really have a primary on either side. I mean, the

1013
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: Republicans went through the motion, but it was a foregone conclusion.

1014
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 1: Trump didn't even participate in the debates, So that there's

1015
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 1: a natural progression where people get engaged in the primaries,

1016
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,720
Speaker 1: they get excited about the elections. They've got some candidate,

1017
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: some horse on their side of the aisle that they're

1018
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: getting excited about, and then you know that starts to

1019
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: spark interest in the stakes of the election. And so

1020
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: you have that dynamic of on the Democratic side, they

1021
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 1: just literally basically canceled the primary and we're like, nope,

1022
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: we don't care, no dissent, we don't care that the

1023
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: majority of Democrats actually would like to have someone else.

1024
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: We're just sticking with Joe. That's that. And on the

1025
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: Republican side, as I said, Trump didn't participate in the primaries,

1026
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 1: and he was massively ahead in the polls nearly once

1027
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: they people actually engaged the entire time. So there's that,

1028
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: and then there's just the fact that you've cut a

1029
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: majority of Americans who say they don't like Biden and

1030
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: a majority of Americans who they don't like Trump, and

1031
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: the most unifying sentiment in the entire country is utter

1032
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: disgust at the nature of our choices for this election.

1033
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 3: Big go. That's right.

1034
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 2: At the same time, the segment everybody's been waiting for

1035
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 2: lab grown.

1036
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: Meat really built this puppy up, didn't we Let's put it.

1037
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:45,399
Speaker 2: Up there on the Florida Ron DeSantis has banned lab

1038
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,399
Speaker 2: grown meat, as other states way a ban quote what's

1039
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 2: their beef with cultured meat?

1040
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 3: Good headline there from the USA.

1041
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 2: Today, Governor rond De Santas signed into law this bill

1042
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 2: which bans any quote cultivated meat because it has grown

1043
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 2: from animals. He says, take your fake lab grown meat elsewhere,

1044
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: We're not doing that in the state of Florida. To

1045
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 2: be clear, the ban does not include things like impossible meat,

1046
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 2: which is made from plant based ingredients and is meant

1047
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: to protect cattle ranchers and the integrity of American agriculture.

1048
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 3: Now, critics have come after Governor.

1049
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: DeSantis, saying that it goes against regulatory approvals that came

1050
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:27,919
Speaker 2: in through the US just a year ago.

1051
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 3: There's actually been a huge backlash. Crystal.

1052
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 2: You'll find funny to know amongst the technology community. There's

1053
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: a lot of venture capitalists who to Florida who are

1054
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: very pissed off. They are calling this anti science and

1055
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 2: anti tech.

1056
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 3: However, there have.

1057
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: Been I think I saw like Bezos invested in.

1058
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 3: That's right, Bezos just invested a lot of money.

1059
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: This is the point against me. I shouldn't have brought.

1060
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 2: That Jeff Bezos to invest about sixty million dollars in

1061
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 2: Lab grown Meat company. He has picked up though, some

1062
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: interesting fellow travelers in the movement.

1063
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 3: Let's put this up there on the screen.

1064
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 2: John Fetterman has supported Rond DeSantis's lab Meat bands, saying quote,

1065
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 2: the fake meat is slop, and he says it pains

1066
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 2: me deeply to agree with the crass and burn ron,

1067
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 2: but I co sign this as a member.

1068
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: Picture of health, both Betterment and Santas.

1069
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: Okay, now that doesn't necessarily anything. Says as a member

1070
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 2: of Senate Agricultural Democrats, and as some dude who would

1071
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 2: never serve that slop to my kids, I stand with

1072
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 2: American ranchers and farmers. So this has picked I guess

1073
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 2: it's an interesting discussion which we wanted to have here

1074
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 2: about lab grown meat. So I will at least give

1075
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 2: my perspective and my advocacy for the bill. Now, I

1076
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 2: think it is a fair point just to preempting criticism.

1077
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you say this about factory meat. I agree

1078
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 2: with you. I think factory meat is poison. I was

1079
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 2: telling you us meat is actually banned in one hundred

1080
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: and sixty countries because a lot of the additives that

1081
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: we put in there, many of the ways that we

1082
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 2: have are in our meat supply Tyson's foods and all

1083
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 2: of this is repulsive and discussing, and if you have

1084
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,399
Speaker 2: the ability, I would genuinely urge you to not eat

1085
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 2: it and to try and either buy local meat, which

1086
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 2: is a pastur ray, organic grass fed, et cetera, from

1087
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: people who actually both treat animals well, harvest them sustainably

1088
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:05,800
Speaker 2: and responsibly.

1089
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 3: I understand it's more expensive. Not everybody can afford it.

1090
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: That's part of the curse, though, has been a factory

1091
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 2: and you know, vertically integrated meat production here in the

1092
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 2: United States. Now, the reason I'm against lab grown meat

1093
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 2: and all of this is I believe very strongly in

1094
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 2: a principle called the Lindy principle. This was you know,

1095
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 2: by Nassim Teleb and the idea is basically like the

1096
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 2: longer it's been around, the better it is. And there

1097
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 2: is just something deeply dystopian and terrible to me about

1098
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 2: the ideas of like the future technology companies like these

1099
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 2: tech guys Jeff Bezos and others, not just owning land

1100
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 2: where food production actually happens, but synthesizing meat and then

1101
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,439
Speaker 2: possibly I mean, who knows what you're even gonna put

1102
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 2: into it. I mean, just imagine, you know, our current

1103
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 2: vegetables already are not even real vegetables. They're like genetically modified,

1104
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 2: and they have all this crap in them to make

1105
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 2: them last longer in the freezer car on the way.

1106
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 3: From Chicago or whatever to overhere.

1107
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 2: And I just feel like more that we do that

1108
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 2: I understand is better for feeding eight billion people at scale.

1109
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to criticize it, I guess in

1110
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 2: that way, but I don't think it is healthy and

1111
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 2: moving more in that industrialize food way, and it's also

1112
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 2: stripping away, you know, the tradition, and I think the

1113
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 2: benefactor of cattle ranching and trying to move to a

1114
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 2: pre nineteen sixties food market, which I would like to see.

1115
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 3: I'm supportive of the measure Oka anyway.

1116
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: With all that, yes, so there first, let's talk a

1117
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: little bit of background the two things that are really

1118
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: driving this move to ban lab grown meat, which, by

1119
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: the way, what this is, I mean not that I

1120
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: really understand the process, but they take some stem cells,

1121
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,479
Speaker 1: yes exactly, from an animal, animals not harmed, and they're

1122
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: able to use amino assets to basically like grow actual

1123
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 1: meat out of these stem cells, which is extraordinary, right

1124
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: and has potentially you can imagine the potential massive benefits

1125
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,240
Speaker 1: because the meat that we consume, is Sager is actly

1126
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: pointing out, is actually really terrible. And industrial factory farming

1127
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: is also really horrifying and is bad obviously for the animals,

1128
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: but it's also bad for people. You have this massive

1129
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: use of antibiotics, which has led to you know, straight

1130
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: antibiotic resistant strains of infections, and that being a problem

1131
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: you have even like right now, there's a bird flu

1132
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: situation that comes directly out of the result of the

1133
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: way that these factory farms operate in the close integration

1134
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: with humans, and these factory farms which are disgusting, dystopian places,

1135
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: these animals are tortured from birth until the time that

1136
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: they are slaughtered. It's horrifying, horrifying situation. And that's before

1137
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: you even get into the climate impact. Okay, so that's

1138
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: number one. Number two, as I was beginning to say,

1139
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: the reason this is happening now is not because Ron

1140
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 1: DeSantis is deeply concerned about the quality of the food

1141
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: that our children consume. It's because number one, there's a

1142
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: lot of money in the factory farming industry that is

1143
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: concerned about this. And number two, Republicans have made it

1144
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: into this like culture war thing where it's like, and

1145
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: even Desanta says in his bill, like the World Economic

1146
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: Forum elites want us to eat fake meat and bugs

1147
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: and who cares about climate change, et cetera. So it's

1148
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: this culture war issue that has the benefit of also

1149
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: overlapping with a lot of big money interests. Fetterman, I

1150
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: think picking it up likely given his the demonstrated level

1151
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: of corruption and how influenced he is by money that

1152
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: is given or withheld from his campaign, I think it's

1153
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: very reasonable to assume that maybe a factor for him

1154
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 1: as well. But yeah, it's not like the rest of

1155
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: our food system is so pristine that it makes any

1156
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: sense to single out this one potential innovation. And then

1157
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: the other thing to say is this is like, this

1158
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: is a long way from coming to fruition.

1159
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's definitely true, right.

1160
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: It's still very early in the development. So, you know,

1161
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 1: I think what we talked the other day, I think

1162
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: it was me and Emily you were out about lunchables.

1163
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 1: Like to me, things like that are probably a much

1164
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: bigger problem than lab grown meat, which has all of

1165
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: the genetic indications of being just basically like meat. So

1166
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: to have a hard ban on this, it's more culture

1167
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: war signaling than it is actual concern for anybody's health,

1168
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: because if you're concerned for anybody's health, you have a

1169
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: lot more critiques of our food system than you have.

1170
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 3: Sure, but I mean take where you can get, right.

1171
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 2: I mean, to me, lab grown meat is the epitome

1172
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 2: of the Jurassic Park. Mean, your scientists were so preoccupied

1173
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 2: whether or not they could they didn't stop to think

1174
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 2: if they should.

1175
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 3: I mean the idea.

1176
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 2: Look, as we have seen with a lot of the

1177
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 2: regenerative farming movement and others that are out there, you

1178
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 2: can actually minimize a lot of the climate impact. You

1179
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 2: can actually raise animals sustainably, you can have much healthier meat,

1180
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 2: and you can even buy directly from the sources. One

1181
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 2: of the amazing things about the internet is you can

1182
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 2: buy meat online today and you can get a ship

1183
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 2: to your house from ups. You're going to pay maybe

1184
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 2: fifteen percent more than you would buy at the grocery store.

1185
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 2: I totally understand a huge portion of the public cannot

1186
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: afford that. So I am not saying that it is

1187
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 2: anywhere where it needs to be. But imagine if those

1188
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 2: people got the same federal subsidies that Tyson's Foods and

1189
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 2: Purdue Farm and all these other people are getting. I mean,

1190
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 2: that's a totally different type of food system which we

1191
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 2: could get to pro technology in the way that people

1192
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: could still get access to or even better buy something

1193
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 2: locally which is properly raised. So I would just say

1194
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 2: this lab grown direction is one where look, there's something

1195
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 2: both in terms of the playing god, but second, I

1196
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 2: just really believe and we're gonna talk we have a

1197
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 2: guest later who we're going to be posting later on

1198
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 2: about ozempic and there is just there is this idea

1199
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 2: of hubris where we seem to believe that we can

1200
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 2: just synthesize amino acids and that there isn't something intangible

1201
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 2: over hundreds of millions or tens of millions of years

1202
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 2: of evolution of an animal being grown from birth to

1203
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 2: wherever it is, and then us eating the animal protein

1204
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 2: that can just be synthesized through a tube into something

1205
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:03,919
Speaker 2: that we're going to eat and is going to give

1206
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 2: us all the nutrients that we could ever possibly want.

1207
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 2: There's no you know, history of medical science that shows

1208
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 2: you that, like Western medicine itself right now, if you

1209
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 2: were to ask me to how to fix the bone,

1210
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 2: they know how to do that, but they don't know

1211
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 2: what makes us tick. That's why nobody has ever solved

1212
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 2: depression or you know, why you can't just take vitamins

1213
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 2: instead of eating vegetables.

1214
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 3: If it was that easy, then it would already have

1215
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 3: been done.

1216
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 2: So for me, it doesn't pass the Lindy test at all,

1217
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 2: and I think we should say that always.

1218
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 1: I mean, your tick is just basically like I assume

1219
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 1: all technology is bad, not all, but a lot, I mean,

1220
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 1: and it's very it's very dissonant with other technological like

1221
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: embrace of you know, the Apple Vision pro and other

1222
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: things that you're very life and also it's very it's

1223
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: very dissonant also with your you know, your view that

1224
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 1: we don't really need to worry about climate change because

1225
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: science is going to solve it. Well, this is one area.

1226
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 1: I mean what it's like twenty five percent of carbon

1227
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: emissions come from its food delivery. It's very high. So okay,

1228
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: this is part of science solving the climate change crisis

1229
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: and making it so that we don't have to make

1230
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: some of the more dire trade offs that some of

1231
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: us fear that ultimately will have to make. So listen,

1232
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: study it, make sure it's safe. But to just have

1233
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: no evidence that it's a problem and be like I'm

1234
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: going to ban it because I want to own the

1235
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: World Economic Forum elites, it's just silly. It's just silly.

1236
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 1: And like I said, it's so different than the way

1237
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: the entire rest of the food system is viewed. It's

1238
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: just this sort of like based on nothing, reactionary view

1239
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: that I believe, based on nothing, this is going to

1240
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: be a problem. When you know, it's nice that you

1241
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: can get like your organic whatever, small ranch raised beef,

1242
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: et cetera. Ninety nine percent that's the stat of animals

1243
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: consume for food production are factory farms and it's horrible.

1244
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: It's horrible for the animals, it's horrible for human beings.

1245
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: But I don't see Santis or John Fetterman upset about that,

1246
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: of course not, because that's where they're getting the money from,

1247
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 1: that is being used to drive this position. And then

1248
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 1: also this just like culture war.

1249
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 3: Virtue signal, I don't disagree.

1250
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 2: I think there's also I mean, look, I understand the

1251
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 2: whole World Economic Forum thing, but really what they are saying,

1252
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 2: let's say the best faith version of it is basically

1253
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 2: in a lab grown system.

1254
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 3: What does it mean.

1255
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 2: It means you have to go to a company in

1256
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 2: order to buy your meat. You can never actually be

1257
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 2: fully sustainable or harvest something if you want it to yourself.

1258
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 3: What okay, because.

1259
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: People can still have their own cat, they can still

1260
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:30,919
Speaker 1: buy their meat.

1261
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 3: I mean what if they outlaw that as okay.

1262
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 1: Well, then you take a stand of back against that.

1263
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,959
Speaker 1: But instead of saying, hey, let's study it and see

1264
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: and actually maybe this is healthier for people. Maybe this

1265
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: reduces the cost of meat so that people can have

1266
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: more whole foods versus the like, you know, lunchables crap

1267
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: that they're eating now, rather than that you're just like,

1268
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: let's ban it before we even know.

1269
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,480
Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying, and I'm not disagreeing that

1270
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 2: it is a culture based argument. Yeah, only telling you

1271
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 2: where it comes from. The skepticism. Again, for me, it

1272
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 2: doesn't pass Thelindy test literally at all. The idea that

1273
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 2: you can just grow something in a lab and that's

1274
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 2: going to replace it. If again, if it were true,

1275
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 2: then vitamins would have replaced all of vegetables. But all

1276
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 2: medical scients would tell you that a vitamin is not

1277
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 2: a direct you know, is not a direct substitute. Now,

1278
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 2: could it get there maybe, but they've been trying, you know,

1279
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 2: for what forty fifty years, So in this case, maybe

1280
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 2: they will get there. But it does seem like, just look,

1281
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,920
Speaker 2: it makes me uncomfortable the idea that these people are

1282
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 2: trying to consolidate the food system such that the fake.

1283
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 1: System is already consolidated.

1284
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, but we can have a problem. We have some

1285
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 3: level of self exit.

1286
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 2: Right now, I'm saying, what if we get to the

1287
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 2: point where you have a total control of the food

1288
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 2: system there, which I do think that.

1289
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: There is actually competitor to the consolidated food system. That's

1290
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: why there's a reaction against it from the political class

1291
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: because of these monopolists who want to be able to

1292
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: continue their factory farming with no alternative and have consolidated

1293
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 1: the marketplace. That's exactly the problem. They don't want a competitor.

1294
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 3: Well, but they don't.

1295
01:04:57,800 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 2: The competitors who are coming in are Jeff Bezos and

1296
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 2: the Facebook. The VC guys who I see tweeting about

1297
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 2: this on Instagram or on are on Twitter, who are

1298
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 2: you know, multi billionaires or have funds themselves. It's like

1299
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 2: Facebook taking over the monopoly of newspapers is like did

1300
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 2: we win? I mean, like if that's competitions not necessarily

1301
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 2: a good competition, Like is the new boss really as

1302
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 2: good as the old boss or is it just basically

1303
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 2: the exact same type of boss that we have here?

1304
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: Not?

1305
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 2: Again, is DeSantis corrupt? Do they really care about the

1306
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 2: food system? No, because they're from the top sugar producing

1307
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 2: state in the whole country. Like I'm with you, Like

1308
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that it's not a good thing. If

1309
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 2: we could ban sugar, we probably better off doing that

1310
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 2: than we would with lab grown meat or any of

1311
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 2: this other stuff. But we could go after the agricultural

1312
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 2: subsidies and Purdue and Tyson's and all these other companies,

1313
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 2: and you know, like lunchables, which is I don't even

1314
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 2: know if that doesn't even qualify in my head as

1315
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 2: meat or hot dogs or so many of these other

1316
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 2: things with all those disgusting additives and things like that.

1317
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: Hot dogs are a great point. Actually, yeah, no, people

1318
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: are fine with hot dogs. You're worried about this, Okay,

1319
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: looked by the way, hot dogs.

1320
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 2: Fut and I don't eat any hot period. I'm not

1321
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 2: putting that poison into my body.

1322
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, listen, if you actually care about the food system,

1323
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 1: you would do a lot more good rather than banning

1324
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: something that hasn't even really been developed yet. You do

1325
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: a lot more good, just like killing the corn subsidies

1326
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 1: and the sugar subsidies and putting those subsidies instead towards

1327
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 1: whole foods, whole fruits, vegetables, meat, et cetera. But for

1328
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: some reason, political.

1329
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 3: Classmen, I think that's a fair point. Yeah, we were

1330
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 3: just trying to zoom out a little bit.

1331
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to what's going on in terms

1332
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 1: of the college protests panic across the country. Some significant

1333
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 1: news broke yesterday with regard to Columbia University, let's put

1334
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 1: this up on the screen. So they announced their decision

1335
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 1: yesterday to cancel their university wide commencement amid protests. This

1336
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 1: headline says, and they cite specifically some vague quote unquote

1337
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: security threat. Note that previously the justification for like bringing

1338
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 1: in the cops and clearing out in the encampment and

1339
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: all that was, Hey, we got to like, we got

1340
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 1: to get it together so we can host a commencement.

1341
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: Could put this up on the screen. This is part

1342
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: of the statement from the President of Columbias. It's going

1343
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: to take time to heal, but I know we can

1344
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: do that. I hope we can use the weeks that

1345
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: head to restore calm, all our students complete their academic

1346
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: work and honor their achievements at commencement. But apparently, I mean,

1347
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone should take their like security threat

1348
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:31,919
Speaker 1: thing here seriously. They're worried about it being disrupted. They're

1349
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 1: worried about a show of you know how widely supported

1350
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: these protests are not only among the students, but among

1351
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 1: the faculty. They're panicked about, you know, the donor class

1352
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: meltdown that they've already seen, and so like UCLA before them,

1353
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 1: they decided better just to cancel it all together so

1354
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 1: no one can see any potential exercises of free speech.

1355
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: Because I'm Cyer recovered yesterday. There have been graduation ceremonies

1356
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: that have had protests. It hasn't been a big deal.

1357
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 1: You know, some people stand up with flags, they you know,

1358
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 1: get cheered or boot or whatever. They're scorted out and

1359
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 1: that's the end of the story and it really continues

1360
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 1: with their day. So you know, there's I guess two

1361
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 1: things to say. Number One, like I said, it's not

1362
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:16,560
Speaker 1: about security, it's about they don't want to be embarrassed

1363
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 1: and they don't want to be out of control. And

1364
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 1: number two, you know, this has everything to do with

1365
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 1: the manufactured panic that has been created and they just

1366
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 1: want it to end and be able to, you know,

1367
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 1: silence everyone in move.

1368
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 2: It is about the donors and the parents who would

1369
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 2: be coming there more than it is about anything else. Obviously,

1370
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 2: as as evidenced, like you said, at previous ones, there

1371
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 2: were annoying protesters. By the way, at my graduation, if

1372
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:44,799
Speaker 2: I recall, I think it was at the height of Ferguson.

1373
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: It's very common to we did at mine as a

1374
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 1: but I can barely even remember because it wasn't even

1375
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 1: like that big a deal.

1376
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 2: You know, I'm with you, I agree with you. I mean,

1377
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 2: I don't particularly care I remember. But at the same time,

1378
01:08:57,280 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 2: if I recall, the university was like, there will be

1379
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 2: no political songs on people's hats. And then people did

1380
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 2: it anyway because they're like, what are you going to do?

1381
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 2: Care well my degree? Yeah, and then people's parents were

1382
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 2: some people's parents were outrage, and other parents were supporting.

1383
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 2: I guess this is a time honored tradition. Let's put

1384
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:13,680
Speaker 2: the next one, please up there on the screen. This

1385
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 2: kind of gets to some of what we previewed yesterday

1386
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 2: about where we were going to talk about. There's been

1387
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 2: some interesting new polling now about how Americans feel about

1388
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 2: these quote pro palest Indian college protests.

1389
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:28,879
Speaker 3: So I'll go through support and oppose.

1390
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:32,759
Speaker 2: The top line US adults is twenty eight percent strongly

1391
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 2: or somewhat support, not sure twenty four strongly or somewhat

1392
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 2: oppose is forty seven percent, so deflarent plurality. Now there

1393
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 2: is an age gap eighteen to forty four. Forty percent

1394
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 2: strongly or someone support, thirty one percent not sure, thirty

1395
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:50,559
Speaker 2: percent strongly or somewhat oppose, forty five and older basically

1396
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 2: completely flipped. You got sixty two percent who completely opposed,

1397
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 2: nineteen percent only who support.

1398
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: Ninety wild age gap.

1399
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 3: What do I tell you about boomers votes? What I

1400
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:00,799
Speaker 3: college graduates?

1401
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 2: This is another important one, important to me because it's

1402
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 2: the support figure and the don't know figure which are

1403
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 2: really interesting where the oppose is relatively similar. So you

1404
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 2: got thirty eight percent college grads who support, fifteen percent

1405
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 2: not sure, forty eight percent of pose non college is

1406
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,719
Speaker 2: twenty four percent support, twenty nine percent is not sure

1407
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 2: as in probably just don't care, and then forty seven

1408
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,719
Speaker 2: percent who oppose. Amongst Democrats, you got forty six percent

1409
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 2: Democrats who support independence, twenty four Republicans sixteen. And then

1410
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 2: on the opposition you've got thirty one percent Democrats, forty

1411
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 2: four percent independence, sixty nine percent Republicans. Not a surprise,

1412
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 2: they've got a breakdown there by religion. But do you

1413
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 2: want to comment on this before we go through more

1414
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 2: of them.

1415
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'll just say I actually to be

1416
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:45,639
Speaker 1: honest with Hugh this, you know, as someone who does

1417
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: support the protests. Given what I know about historic disapproval

1418
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 1: of protests, and given what I've seen in terms of

1419
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 1: being overwhelming media and political class manufacturing of consent around

1420
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,720
Speaker 1: these protests, I'm actually surprised aren't worse, Like the fact

1421
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 1: that you still have eighteen to forty four year old's

1422
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: plurality of whom are in favor, the fact that the

1423
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 1: Democratic number, I mean, Joe Biden is really going against

1424
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 1: his own base, because there's a very clear plurality forty

1425
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: six percent of Democrats who are in support specifically of

1426
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: the college campus protests and only thirty one percent who oppose.

1427
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:24,480
Speaker 1: You know, the religion gap is also quite quite extraordinary,

1428
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 1: quite notable. But to be honest with you, these numbers

1429
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 1: are not as bad as I frankly feared.

1430
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:30,680
Speaker 5: That they would be.

1431
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:34,800
Speaker 2: Interesting, I cope, in my opinion a little bit, because

1432
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 2: there's still forty seven percent of pose figure there in

1433
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 2: terms of the plurality of the public is against it.

1434
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: But if you look at like Vietnam War protests, which

1435
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:43,720
Speaker 1: we have these numbers, we can get to in a

1436
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:45,760
Speaker 1: message that they were way more negative than this.

1437
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 2: So, oh no, we'll get to that. Let's go to

1438
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 2: the next part this is about too harsh or not

1439
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 2: harsh enough. This again is where I would say there's

1440
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 2: some warning signs. Amongst US adults, thirty three percent the

1441
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:59,560
Speaker 2: plurality here at least in this one are saying that

1442
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 2: has not and harsh enough of a response. Thirty one

1443
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:06,200
Speaker 2: percent not sure about right, twenty sixteen percent say too

1444
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 2: harsh eighteen to forty four. You've actually got a plurality

1445
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 2: who are saying it's about right or not sure. Twenty

1446
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,679
Speaker 2: two percent say too harsh, sixteen percent not harsh enough.

1447
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 2: But again look at that older figure. Forty five percent

1448
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 2: and older forty five and older forty eight percent are

1449
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 2: saying not harsh enough.

1450
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, and twelve loves there. They love their order.

1451
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 2: College graduates actually very similar. There's definitely more who will

1452
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 2: say too harsh, but there's still a plurality amongst college

1453
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 2: grads for the not harsh enough figure. Same for the

1454
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 2: non college graduates figure, although if the number is higher

1455
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 2: amongst not sure amongst Democrats, even the about right figure

1456
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:45,719
Speaker 2: is the one that really takes the cake at thirty percent,

1457
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 2: So even amongst people who necessarily support the protests are

1458
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 2: saying it is about right for the police response Republicans

1459
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 2: and independence. Independence actually relatively split Republicans obviously saying it's

1460
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 2: not been harsh enough, and then a similar breakdown there

1461
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 2: amongst religion. Finally, let's go to the next part. This

1462
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:04,480
Speaker 2: is just on the latest parts. This is about protecting

1463
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 2: free speech. This can be relatively grim as somebody who

1464
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 2: definitely supports a free speech do Americans think cologists would

1465
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 2: focus more on protecting free speech or stopping hate speech?

1466
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 2: US adult citizens say both equally, even though stopping hate

1467
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 2: speech is a fake thing and is not real.

1468
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you can understand how people say it though

1469
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I mean, this is one of the

1470
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:29,200
Speaker 1: most unifying questions. Actually, where you see some divides among

1471
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 1: like older people are more likely to say stop hate

1472
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 1: speech was most people who are like yeah both, Like

1473
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 1: I want to predict hate speech is bad and free

1474
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 1: speech is good. Let's do both. So I don't know,

1475
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: even though from an ideological perspective, obviously I think protecting

1476
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 1: free speech is more important, but it doesn't I understand

1477
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 1: why they got these results.

1478
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 2: I guess I would say, I see what you're saying. Yeah,

1479
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 2: you're a no one personally not thinking, well, actually, there's

1480
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 2: no speech as opposed to free speech.

1481
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, technically the first timement even applies it.

1482
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 3: You're like, which is true?

1483
01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 1: You're like, let's do both. If both's an option, let's

1484
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:00,679
Speaker 1: do both. Right, Okay? Fair enough?

1485
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 2: As Crystal teased, though, there definitely is a difference in

1486
01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 2: terms of Vietnam War.

1487
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 1: Before we get to that shirt, I want to ask you,

1488
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 1: because I want to ask you what your takeaway or

1489
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 1: what you think the implications of these polls are.

1490
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 2: My implication is that it's either a wash, it will

1491
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 2: be marginally important. But the reason why I actually don't

1492
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 2: pay attention to much as this as I do to

1493
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 2: there was a recent column we didn't cut it unfortunately

1494
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 2: that I just read this morning about why this is

1495
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 2: very different from Vietnam is that all of the polling

1496
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:34,160
Speaker 2: that we have says that Israel Paleson is not number

1497
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 2: one or even top five, and if anything, is a

1498
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 2: fifteen out of sixteen issue for the vast majority of people,

1499
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 2: including for young people, whereas in Vietnam, Vietnam was top

1500
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 2: five and in many cases was number one and number two.

1501
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 3: The truth is that most people either.

1502
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 2: Don't care or they're marginally just like kind of interested

1503
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:55,560
Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, whatever, those chaos. Maybe I'll support it,

1504
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 2: maybe I don't. And the real evidence to me was

1505
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 2: the huge not sure numbers in all of these because

1506
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 2: one things that really comes out in Vietnam, people were

1507
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:07,400
Speaker 2: damn sure how they felt. They either felt strong or opposed,

1508
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 2: because people had thought a lot about Vietnam, Whereas with

1509
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 2: this one, I mean, look, I've said this before. If

1510
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 2: you watch the show every single day, you're in like

1511
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 2: the top one to two percent of news consumers in

1512
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 2: this whole country. And yeah, you know, we cover the

1513
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 2: news in the same way. If you go to the

1514
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 2: front page of the New York Times Israel, white House,

1515
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:25,840
Speaker 2: Trump tile trial and all that stuff, maybe five ten

1516
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 2: percent of the country you know, actually checks in every

1517
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,599
Speaker 2: single day. Because at that time, one point nine million

1518
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 2: Americans had been drafted into the armed forces fifty five

1519
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:39,040
Speaker 2: thousand killed, the level of civic, like, the level of

1520
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:41,599
Speaker 2: civic engagement around the issue was just so much higher

1521
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 2: that I just I don't really see it making all

1522
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:45,600
Speaker 2: that much of a difference. Based on the polling, I

1523
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 2: would say I would probably be on the side, you know,

1524
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 2: polling just pure like popularity wise of either the about

1525
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,000
Speaker 2: right figure or of the crackdown. That just seems to

1526
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 2: be the more popular spot. I'm not saying I support that.

1527
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 2: I don't for free speech purposes, but I'm just telling you, like,

1528
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 2: for political purpose, that's probably where I would align if

1529
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 2: we're a politician.

1530
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 1: So you think Joe Biden is handling.

1531
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 2: This well, unfortunately, he's probably doing them his best given

1532
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:09,839
Speaker 2: the coalition that he has. He's got the suburban ladies,

1533
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 2: he's you know, the abortion ladies are coming out to

1534
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 2: vote for him.

1535
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I heard them.

1536
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:14,800
Speaker 3: The boomers are loving it.

1537
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 2: The young people mostly don't vote in particular, they're making

1538
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 2: life miserable for everybody else. It's like, well, you know

1539
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 2: most people, we know how that turns out. Most people

1540
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 2: going to turn against that, even amongst colleges.

1541
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:27,680
Speaker 1: Who are they making life miserable for it? Well, this

1542
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 1: unimpacted your life for my life, I mean, it's different than.

1543
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 3: I'm just waiting to get stuck in traffick.

1544
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 1: It is different from like the Black Lives Matter protests.

1545
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,639
Speaker 1: So we've obviously we've talked about that. So I think

1546
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 1: your point about the probably more important numbers are how

1547
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 1: many for how many people? This is a critical issue, right,

1548
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 1: This is their number one issue. This is their voting issue.

1549
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 1: And I agree with you. I think that's probably a

1550
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 1: small number, but it only really takes a small number. Yeah,

1551
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 1: well see, you know, I mean, look at the uncommitted

1552
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: vote in Michigan. There were a few states where the

1553
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:07,559
Speaker 1: uncommitted vote itself in a Democratic primary was larger than

1554
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: the margin that Joe Biden won against Donald Trump. So

1555
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:15,600
Speaker 1: you know, in that way, even if it's only a

1556
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 1: small percentage, you say this is my number one issue,

1557
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 1: you clearly have some part of the young population in particular,

1558
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 1: who were likely Biden voters who were like, no, not

1559
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 1: doing it. Can't vote for someone who is funding a

1560
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:32,680
Speaker 1: Jen'm just not going to do it, And that's a

1561
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 1: problem for him. The reason I disagree about his response

1562
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:42,680
Speaker 1: goes back to the analysis. It's similar to the analysis

1563
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 1: of why I thought he made a big mistake in

1564
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 1: terms of how he handled immigration. Okay, And there's studies,

1565
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:53,519
Speaker 1: especially of politicians in Europe that show when they try

1566
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:55,599
Speaker 1: to move to the right and be like no, I'm

1567
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 1: actually an immigration hardliner as well, it demoralizes their base

1568
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 1: and divides their base, and it seeds ground to that

1569
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 1: right wing perspective. So that if people are like, oh well,

1570
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:11,600
Speaker 1: even this guy agrees with the the right on immigration,

1571
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 1: So why am I going to go for the water

1572
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 1: down version of that? If I want the law and

1573
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 1: order crackdown, dude, I'm going with Donald Trump all day long.

1574
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:23,920
Speaker 1: So I think that's number one. Number two is that

1575
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 1: the thing that has caused the impression of like chaos

1576
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 1: is not actually the students who are in relatively small

1577
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: numbers on each of these campuses, like setting up tents.

1578
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:40,519
Speaker 1: It's the crackdown. It's the police response. It's the police

1579
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 1: coming in brutalizing these students. In fact, the initial crackdown

1580
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 1: at Columbia sparked a massive increase in these protests across

1581
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 1: the country. So I think the response itself has created

1582
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 1: this impression of chaos. That is a problem for Joe

1583
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 1: Biden with his like moderate suburban voters. Now, in my opinion,

1584
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 1: those moderate suburban voters are already voting for him, like

1585
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,799
Speaker 1: they're not going back to Trump. They're voting for him.

1586
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 1: Many of them very energized by jobs. As you're accurately

1587
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:17,680
Speaker 1: pointing out, this issue is not important to them. They

1588
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 1: don't really care either way. So I think he has

1589
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:23,840
Speaker 1: Number one divided his own basic coalition. We see that

1590
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: in some of the numbers. Number two further alienated some

1591
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:32,519
Speaker 1: potentially small but also potentially determinative number of young people

1592
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:35,400
Speaker 1: who are like you just called me a Nazi, Like, no,

1593
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 1: I'm not voting for you, and there's nothing you can

1594
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:38,639
Speaker 1: say it's going to change my mind at this point.

1595
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,440
Speaker 1: And number three has created exactly the scenes of chaos

1596
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 1: that can lead to a conservative backlash that is not

1597
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 1: going to be like your law and order to do.

1598
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 1: They're going to be like Trump's law and order do.

1599
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:50,680
Speaker 1: That's own going man.

1600
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 2: Counter to what you're saying is BLM is that if

1601
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 2: Joe Biden had embraced defund, he one hundred percent would

1602
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:56,800
Speaker 2: have lost.

1603
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 3: I'm absolutely convinced of it.

1604
01:19:58,000 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 5: Now.

1605
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 3: He basically tries to distance from the protest.

1606
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:04,760
Speaker 1: He actually was. He were much more sympathetic so rhetorically

1607
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 1: to BLM than he was here one.

1608
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:09,679
Speaker 2: But he did enough of a job of dissing himself

1609
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:12,000
Speaker 2: from the violence and not all riot is the voice

1610
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 2: of the unheard, and everybody's suddenly MLK Junior all of

1611
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:17,559
Speaker 2: a sudden back. In twenty twenty, No Black Squares on

1612
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,760
Speaker 2: Instagram and no anti racism in Brahem Kendy, and that

1613
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:24,800
Speaker 2: was enough for some moderate voters to come along with him.

1614
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 1: But let me say, though, that contradicts some analysis from

1615
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:31,360
Speaker 1: you in the past, where you've said, and this is

1616
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:33,919
Speaker 1: true even you know, you've made this point about Republicans

1617
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 1: an abortion for example, or with the Democrats, like even

1618
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 1: though I don't know, did any Democratic politicians elected members

1619
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 1: of Congress, did any of them actively say defund the police?

1620
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:47,960
Speaker 1: Joe Biden certainly didn't. But your point was assailient one,

1621
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 1: which is like, it doesn't really matter because they're associated

1622
01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 1: with this thing, right, And Joe Biden was associated with

1623
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:57,720
Speaker 1: that thing. He was, as I said rhetorically, much more

1624
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 1: sympathetic to the protesters, was very clear about yes, I

1625
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:03,160
Speaker 1: condemn the violence, but let's not use that to distract

1626
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:05,919
Speaker 1: from the core issues in these core concerns, which are legitimate.

1627
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously he became president of the United States.

1628
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 2: The point I'm trying to make is that I definitely

1629
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:13,600
Speaker 2: think he paid a political price. I think though that

1630
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 2: if he had not navigated it in more of the

1631
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 2: way that he did, which was trying to split the difference,

1632
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 2: like in a kind of establishment friendly way.

1633
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:23,639
Speaker 3: I think he would have lost. I think if he'd.

1634
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:26,000
Speaker 2: Been more AOC on the topic, let's say, in terms

1635
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 2: of people are stealing bread because they're hungry, and more like, listen,

1636
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 2: you know, we got to hear people out.

1637
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, I don't condemn violence.

1638
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:33,719
Speaker 3: He would have lost the election.

1639
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,840
Speaker 1: So let me make the counterpoint, which is that if

1640
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 1: you look back at the polls, when Trump really started

1641
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 1: to have a problem was after remember the whole Bible

1642
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 1: photo op and the I don't remember which federal agency

1643
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 1: it was. There are peaceful protesters that were like cracked down.

1644
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:52,280
Speaker 1: The horses came in. It was crazy, it was great,

1645
01:21:52,439 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 1: and there was a huge backlash to that. And the

1646
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:58,519
Speaker 1: problem part of the problem for him in terms of

1647
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 1: his response at the time is there was chaos and

1648
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 1: it was happening under him. So my point is that

1649
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:09,840
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, by green lighting this crackdown, has created the

1650
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:12,599
Speaker 1: very chaos that yes, is a problem for him, and

1651
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:14,639
Speaker 1: that it sort of doesn't really matter what he says

1652
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 1: about it because the chaos is happening under him. And

1653
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:20,160
Speaker 1: if his response is to be like, we need a

1654
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:22,439
Speaker 1: crackdown and who we'll see what he says about college

1655
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 1: student protesters today is giving some big speech on anti Semitism. Like,

1656
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 1: if you're looking for the if you were horrified by

1657
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: what you're seeing on college campuses and you want the

1658
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 1: law and order guy, that's never going to be Joe Biden.

1659
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 1: That's going to be Donald Trump.

1660
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:37,599
Speaker 2: The thing is about the Trump thing, though, is that

1661
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:39,719
Speaker 2: there were a majority of the public at the time

1662
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 2: who supported calling in the National Guard in response to

1663
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:42,920
Speaker 2: the riots.

1664
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 3: So it is more complicated.

1665
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:47,120
Speaker 2: And I don't disagree he owns a chaos because in

1666
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:49,800
Speaker 2: a lot of ways he was like police response, but

1667
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 2: then wouldn't go all out, and he was all over

1668
01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 2: the place in terms of his Bible and then what

1669
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 2: he hid in his bunker during the protest. I remember

1670
01:22:56,479 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 2: that being a big story as well. And don't forget

1671
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 2: COVID on top of that either. So you're not wrong.

1672
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:06,719
Speaker 2: He paid a price, for sure. Now was it all rights?

1673
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 2: Was it COVID?

1674
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:09,479
Speaker 3: I mean it's very difficult to say. I guess.

1675
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:11,640
Speaker 2: Just focusing on this, let's turn to Vietnam because this

1676
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:13,200
Speaker 2: is actually important instructive.

1677
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 3: Let's put this up there on the screen.

1678
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 2: For example, how Americans felt about the campus protests against

1679
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:21,280
Speaker 2: the Vietnam War. So, as you accurately pointed out in

1680
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:24,879
Speaker 2: your monologue yesterday, a majority of respondents blamed the students,

1681
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:27,559
Speaker 2: not just for violence, but specifically in the debts of

1682
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:28,240
Speaker 2: the four students.

1683
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:30,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, we actually have put the next piece up because

1684
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:33,120
Speaker 1: we have an overall number about approve or disapprove of

1685
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:36,080
Speaker 1: public protests seventy five, which is why I'm like, well,

1686
01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 1: the protests perception now is actually not that bad compared

1687
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 1: to this.

1688
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 3: No, You're not wrong.

1689
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:43,000
Speaker 1: The other point I want to make about this, which

1690
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 1: was which was noteworthy to me and looking into this,

1691
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:49,280
Speaker 1: is that you know, this was taken in November sixty nine.

1692
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,799
Speaker 1: At this point, public sentiment had already really turned against Vietnam.

1693
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 1: You had a majority, in fact, I have somewhere the

1694
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 1: actual numbers, but you had a very clear majority who

1695
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:01,639
Speaker 1: were opposed to it. I said it was a mistake

1696
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 1: to ever send US soldiers there, and you had I

1697
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 1: think it was somewhere in like the thirties who were

1698
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:09,680
Speaker 1: still supporting it. So even though public sentiment at this

1699
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:14,680
Speaker 1: point agreed with the protesters, there was this very like

1700
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 1: visceral reaction against the protests themselves, which is you know,

1701
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:21,679
Speaker 1: it's just interesting that that can be two separate questions,

1702
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:24,679
Speaker 1: so they could support the issue in general but also

1703
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 1: be like, you know, no to these protests.

1704
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:29,160
Speaker 2: It makes sense to me, though, because what you're saying

1705
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 2: is actually, unfortunately was very different in terms of Vietnam context.

1706
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:35,720
Speaker 2: So even though the majority the people who had supported

1707
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:38,439
Speaker 2: and said it was kind of like Iraq, where we're like, well,

1708
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:40,400
Speaker 2: we never should have gone, but now that we're there,

1709
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:44,120
Speaker 2: we need peace with honor. And that was Nixon's entire thing.

1710
01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:46,760
Speaker 2: And that's again I think point the protest. What I mean,

1711
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 2: Remember Nixon is elected in sixty eight and escalates the

1712
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 2: war in Vietnam. The number of debts actually increased, we

1713
01:24:54,120 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 2: have the secret bombing of Cambodia. Vietnamization doesn't happen until

1714
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:01,559
Speaker 2: later on in the nix In presidency, where US soldiers

1715
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,679
Speaker 2: are still dying by the hundreds every week in Vietnam.

1716
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:07,280
Speaker 3: It's insane actually to go back and to think about.

1717
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 2: So I kind of think that the protest movement, you know,

1718
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:11,479
Speaker 2: in terms of the evidence from back in the day,

1719
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,439
Speaker 2: is very strong for the fact that it was an

1720
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 2: immediate backfire. It didn't work in the immediate term or

1721
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 2: the near term. We didn't really look back, like quote

1722
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:24,919
Speaker 2: unquote fondly on Vietnam War protesters until like the nineteen

1723
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:28,400
Speaker 2: nineties when Bill Clinton was elected. Actually, this was an

1724
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 2: important thing in the ninety two election, when I think

1725
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:34,240
Speaker 2: hw Bush called him a draft dodging bum or something

1726
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 2: because he got a college exemption for a Rhodes scholarship,

1727
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 2: and he had hair and he smoked weed at the

1728
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 2: Vietnam protests, and that was the first time it kind

1729
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:47,760
Speaker 2: of didn't matter that somebody had opposed the Vietnam War.

1730
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:50,800
Speaker 3: And that was thirty years later after.

1731
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 2: Something so saying the political fallout from those protests basically

1732
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:58,280
Speaker 2: led to quasi republican rule from nineteen sixty eight with

1733
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:01,120
Speaker 2: a brief aberation of Jimmy Carter up until what, yeah,

1734
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two. The same thing actually can be said

1735
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 2: of the civil rights protests. Do we have the sit

1736
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:06,760
Speaker 2: in graph?

1737
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:09,400
Speaker 1: We do, that's like I think the last graphic that

1738
01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:09,880
Speaker 1: we have.

1739
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 2: So this question, this is an important one too. This

1740
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,080
Speaker 2: gets to what I talked about previously. Nineteen sixty one,

1741
01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 2: people are asked about the sit in protests. Do you

1742
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,720
Speaker 2: think sit ins at lunch counters? Freedom busters and other

1743
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:23,639
Speaker 2: demonstrations by Negroes will hurt or help a Negro chance

1744
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 2: of being integrated in the South. Hurt fifty seven percent,

1745
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:28,960
Speaker 2: help twenty seven percent.

1746
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:31,240
Speaker 3: Now you can look at that two ways, you can say,

1747
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:31,719
Speaker 3: and I.

1748
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 2: Totally disagree with whoever this tweeter is as the most

1749
01:26:34,160 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 2: iconic and effective protest movement. I don't think it was

1750
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:39,679
Speaker 2: effective actually at all in the moment. And this gets

1751
01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:42,559
Speaker 2: to a point that I was dying to bring up

1752
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:45,679
Speaker 2: with you, which is about abolition and about how the

1753
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:49,839
Speaker 2: history of these things actually happen. So in eighteen sixty

1754
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 2: eighteen sixty one, you have the Southern secessionists, they go

1755
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:56,120
Speaker 2: out and the radical Republicans come to link and they're like,

1756
01:26:56,240 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 2: we got to do abolition, man, we got to do

1757
01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:01,519
Speaker 2: the emancipation Proclamation. It's time the rabble rousers are gone.

1758
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 2: And Lincoln famously says, I would like to have God

1759
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 2: on my side, but I must have Kentucky as in,

1760
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:09,639
Speaker 2: we have to have the border slave states who stay

1761
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 2: within the Union.

1762
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 3: So who was correct?

1763
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:16,800
Speaker 2: In the long run, the practical political you know, practitioner

1764
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:21,120
Speaker 2: Abraham Lincoln, who understands abolition, is becoming incredibly unpopular that

1765
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:24,639
Speaker 2: these radical abolitionists quote unquote who we view fondly now

1766
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:27,240
Speaker 2: at the time, but who had maybe nine percent approval rating,

1767
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 2: you know in eighteen sixty. What were they correct, you

1768
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 2: know to try and to push him to do something

1769
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:36,800
Speaker 2: that was very unpopular or was he correct to basically

1770
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:39,759
Speaker 2: lie about his position and work within the political system

1771
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:42,800
Speaker 2: at the time and force abolition and the emancipation through

1772
01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 2: basically as a war aim lying to the American people

1773
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:47,680
Speaker 2: and saying, well, we're doing it to win the Civil War.

1774
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:50,559
Speaker 2: It has nothing to do actually with black liberation, even

1775
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 2: though that's an end result. And I think that's a

1776
01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:55,559
Speaker 2: very important question, is like, you know, who is who

1777
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:56,560
Speaker 2: is really responsible?

1778
01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:57,920
Speaker 3: I would say Lincoln is the one who is.

1779
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:01,639
Speaker 1: Well, so let me ask you that is your opinion

1780
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 1: that no protest movement in history has ever mattered or

1781
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 1: been successful. But that seems to be what you're laying

1782
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:08,599
Speaker 1: out here.

1783
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 2: But I'm giving people good evidence. But the chances of

1784
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:14,920
Speaker 2: a Civil Rights Act was zero.

1785
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 1: You're creating a binary choice though. I mean, what you're

1786
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:21,960
Speaker 1: basically saying is the only thing that matters is these

1787
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:25,320
Speaker 1: individual great men. None of the social movements, none of

1788
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 1: the protest move the sit ins, the freedom writers, the abolitionists,

1789
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:32,599
Speaker 1: the suffragettes, the anti apartheid protests, and none of these

1790
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 1: things matter at all. All that matters is that you

1791
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:38,559
Speaker 1: get one dude in there who's going to do the

1792
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:41,600
Speaker 1: right thing. And I think that that is a fundamental

1793
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:46,760
Speaker 1: misreading of history. I think it's you have to have

1794
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 1: a confluence of factors, right. The social movements are critical,

1795
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:56,599
Speaker 1: having like the labor movement, pressuring FDR. These things are

1796
01:28:56,720 --> 01:29:02,200
Speaker 1: critical for pressuring these people in power to make these

1797
01:29:02,240 --> 01:29:06,800
Speaker 1: steps in history that are important. So I just can't

1798
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:09,760
Speaker 1: go along with the idea that protest never works, it

1799
01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 1: always backfires, It's always fool hardy, you know, because when

1800
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:17,080
Speaker 1: I look at the lunch counter sit in numbers, like

1801
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:20,880
Speaker 1: the conclusion is the exact opposite. It's not only do

1802
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:25,360
Speaker 1: people disapprove, they found it disorderly, chaotic, etcetera, etcetera. Just

1803
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 1: like the reaction you know, among many to the protests. Now,

1804
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:30,599
Speaker 1: not only that they said this is going to hard,

1805
01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 1: this is going to create a backlash, just like you're

1806
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:34,160
Speaker 1: saying this is going to be a problem, it's going

1807
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 1: to make it worse. And I don't think any reading

1808
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:40,439
Speaker 1: of history can look at that and say that's accurate.

1809
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 1: And so the fact that a protest movement is not

1810
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:48,840
Speaker 1: accepted by NORMI Americans is you know, uncomfortable for them,

1811
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:51,040
Speaker 1: rejected where they think it's going to be backlash, et

1812
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:53,760
Speaker 1: cetera is not at all determined if you look at

1813
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 1: history of how successful those movements are ultimately going to be. So,

1814
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:01,160
Speaker 1: you know, the apartheid movement eighties is like a great

1815
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:03,120
Speaker 1: example of that, you had to say, And it's probably

1816
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 1: a more close example to Israel than Vietnam, because you're right,

1817
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:10,719
Speaker 1: there was much more focus on Vietnam. It was much

1818
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:13,439
Speaker 1: longer period of time. You had Americans getting drafted, you

1819
01:30:13,439 --> 01:30:16,840
Speaker 1: had Americans dying. I mean, this was massive, right. The

1820
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:20,759
Speaker 1: apartheid example, I think is a much more closely related one.

1821
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:23,720
Speaker 1: But you still had the same like normy backlash. You

1822
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:26,760
Speaker 1: still had I feel like freed Zakaria out there, you know,

1823
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:29,160
Speaker 1: like what are you kids doing? And yeah, you was

1824
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:31,400
Speaker 1: on the wrong side of that one. Yeah yeah, that

1825
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:34,320
Speaker 1: got dug up recently in terms of context of it whatever. Anyway,

1826
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:39,080
Speaker 1: But they mattered, they helped. Were they the only thing? No,

1827
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:42,640
Speaker 1: But they were part of a global movement combined with

1828
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:46,200
Speaker 1: internal struggle with in South Africa itself that contributed to

1829
01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:49,000
Speaker 1: a climate that ended that racist regime. So I guess

1830
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:51,640
Speaker 1: my question for you is, like, put yourself in the

1831
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:53,439
Speaker 1: shoes of these college shoes and I don't know, you

1832
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:56,760
Speaker 1: don't agree with their perspective, that's fine, but I think

1833
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,880
Speaker 1: you are. I think you understand they're not doing this

1834
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:04,320
Speaker 1: for like clout. They genuinely feel very passionate that there

1835
01:31:04,360 --> 01:31:07,120
Speaker 1: is a genocide that is being conducted in their name

1836
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:09,880
Speaker 1: with their dollars, and they want to do whatever they

1837
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:13,120
Speaker 1: can think of to do to throw some sand into

1838
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:16,519
Speaker 1: these gears and to desperately try to stop these horrors

1839
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:18,400
Speaker 1: that they see unfolding in front of their eyes. Like,

1840
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:20,400
Speaker 1: what would you tell them to do?

1841
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:21,840
Speaker 3: It's a tough question.

1842
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:23,840
Speaker 2: I mean sometimes you have to understand too that you

1843
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:25,800
Speaker 2: have no influence on the system. I mean I felt

1844
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:28,800
Speaker 2: this way whenever Congress passes Ukraine AID and we spend

1845
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:31,720
Speaker 2: two years talking about how it's useless, how it's a

1846
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 2: stupid cause, how it's just going to waste more life,

1847
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:36,280
Speaker 2: and we get the majority of the American public on

1848
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:38,720
Speaker 2: our side, and then Congress passes it. Any Way, what

1849
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:40,360
Speaker 2: did I do the next day, I put on my

1850
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 2: suit and I came back to work.

1851
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:42,680
Speaker 3: I mean, like, what else are you going to do?

1852
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 3: Always got a beat.

1853
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 1: No significant protest movement with regard to Ukraine, And I

1854
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:51,720
Speaker 1: think it is not correct to look at the response

1855
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:54,000
Speaker 1: of Joe Biden the Democrats and say they're not feeling

1856
01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:57,320
Speaker 1: the pressure the very they very clearly are. I mean,

1857
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:00,680
Speaker 1: I think, like we know the US was involved, and

1858
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:04,160
Speaker 1: I believe this reporting was involved in trying to secure

1859
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:07,400
Speaker 1: this ceasefire deal. Barack Ravine, who is you know, the

1860
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 1: White House whisperer, and all of this is saying like

1861
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:13,960
Speaker 1: they see this as really important politically, because but Joe

1862
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:18,000
Speaker 1: Biden obviously doesn't care about Palestinians, He's obviously committed Zionist.

1863
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:22,680
Speaker 1: He is feeling political pressure from this protest movement. That

1864
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:25,679
Speaker 1: to me is very clear. And so since we don't

1865
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:28,680
Speaker 1: really live in the kind of democracy where the majority

1866
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 1: like rules and just you get public sentiment on your

1867
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:34,920
Speaker 1: side and that's it, that pressure that he feels from

1868
01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:40,400
Speaker 1: this movement is what counts way more than whether Normanis

1869
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:43,400
Speaker 1: are upset about a campus building and a window broken

1870
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:47,440
Speaker 1: and the you know, what's the encampments, the disruption itself

1871
01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:50,439
Speaker 1: is creating the pressure. That is the thing that could

1872
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:53,719
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but that could change things.

1873
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:54,680
Speaker 3: I don't disagree.

1874
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 2: I do think there's we're flirting right along the line

1875
01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:59,280
Speaker 2: right now of the same danger that happened back in

1876
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:02,680
Speaker 2: the nineteen six where the disruption can turn and can

1877
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:05,880
Speaker 2: actually be going against the disruption can become a political asset.

1878
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:07,840
Speaker 2: The reason I bring all these things up is not

1879
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:10,759
Speaker 2: because I revel in the fact that America was frankly

1880
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 2: very sympathetic with the Jim Crow South, or at the

1881
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:16,559
Speaker 2: very least didn't think it was their problem. It's only

1882
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:18,880
Speaker 2: to say that I know that that was the reality,

1883
01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:20,960
Speaker 2: and so like, let's you know, the sit in thing

1884
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:23,200
Speaker 2: is the perfect example. Like this person calls it the

1885
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:26,559
Speaker 2: most effective protest, It's just not true. Nineteen sixty one

1886
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:29,080
Speaker 2: was a time when the President of the United States,

1887
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:32,240
Speaker 2: John F. Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy, his Attorney General,

1888
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:36,720
Speaker 2: support rhetorically the civil rights protesters. At the day that

1889
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:39,800
Speaker 2: Kennedy died, the likelihood of a civil Rights Act being

1890
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:44,240
Speaker 2: passed zero percent. It was his death and LBJ that

1891
01:33:44,320 --> 01:33:47,439
Speaker 2: eventually the genius of LBJ ushers in the nineteen sixty

1892
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:50,439
Speaker 2: four Civil Rights Act. But then even to say that

1893
01:33:50,479 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 2: you know that these people were wrong. I don't think

1894
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:55,720
Speaker 2: they were wrong. The truth is that race politics then

1895
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:59,000
Speaker 2: rules the Republican Party in the South for what nineteen

1896
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:01,799
Speaker 2: sixty eight, race riots are basically the reason that Nixon

1897
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:06,120
Speaker 2: gets elected. Then Ronald Reagan, everybody seems to just forget this,

1898
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:10,360
Speaker 2: happens to launch his nineteen eighty campaign in Mississippi at

1899
01:34:10,360 --> 01:34:15,240
Speaker 2: the very heart of like some serious segregationist sympathies. I mean,

1900
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:17,800
Speaker 2: the year I was born, in nineteen ninety two in

1901
01:34:17,880 --> 01:34:21,400
Speaker 2: the in Texas, fifty percent of the public did not

1902
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:24,360
Speaker 2: support interracial marriage, which is nuts.

1903
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:26,160
Speaker 3: But that actually happened in the year that I was born.

1904
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:29,439
Speaker 1: But the question then, the logical question of that then

1905
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:31,880
Speaker 1: is okay, so was it worth it? And I think

1906
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 1: most people would say myself included of course, of course

1907
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:39,679
Speaker 1: getting the Civil Rights Act passed and ending segregation, ending

1908
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:43,640
Speaker 1: Jim Crow, even knowing that it did create this You

1909
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:46,840
Speaker 1: know this, LBJ. We lost the South for a generally

1910
01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:49,679
Speaker 1: him being right, like he knew that that was going

1911
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 1: to happen, it was still worth it. And so you're Like,

1912
01:34:52,840 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 1: if your argument to me is like, oh, now Democrats

1913
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:57,040
Speaker 1: are going to lose elections, you think I fucking care

1914
01:34:57,080 --> 01:34:59,360
Speaker 1: about that. I don't care about.

1915
01:34:59,280 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 3: That's a fair point.

1916
01:35:00,160 --> 01:35:03,400
Speaker 1: Like if I knew that Democrats were going to lose

1917
01:35:03,439 --> 01:35:07,360
Speaker 1: elections for the next twenty years straight, but the genocide

1918
01:35:07,360 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 1: in Gaza was going to end, sign me up for

1919
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:13,800
Speaker 1: that deal today. And I think that's the way that

1920
01:35:14,240 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 1: many of these students, they're not worried about how Democrats

1921
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:18,760
Speaker 1: are going to do in the fall. The fact that

1922
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:22,839
Speaker 1: they're a threat to democratic electoral chances is the only

1923
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:26,639
Speaker 1: thing that gives them power because the Democrats certainly don't

1924
01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:30,840
Speaker 1: care about human life in Gaza. So yeah, it's a

1925
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:35,040
Speaker 1: problem for Democrats electorally. Their policy in Gaza is a

1926
01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:37,200
Speaker 1: problem for them electorally. The way they're treating them people

1927
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:39,559
Speaker 1: is a problem for them electorally. The chaos that they

1928
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 1: themselves created is a problem for them electorally. And to that,

1929
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:45,519
Speaker 1: I say, good, it should be. It should be a

1930
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 1: problem for you.

1931
01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:49,040
Speaker 2: I agree, and I'm glad. I mean, you're honest about it.

1932
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:51,160
Speaker 2: But they're not right. I mean, these people are craven

1933
01:35:51,360 --> 01:35:53,840
Speaker 2: self interested with politicians, like I'm saying you, and the

1934
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:55,759
Speaker 2: protesters are like, yeah, we don't care about the Democrat.

1935
01:35:55,960 --> 01:35:57,360
Speaker 3: I'm with you, by the way, I'm with you.

1936
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:01,280
Speaker 2: What I'm saying for them is these pos politicians, they're craven,

1937
01:36:01,439 --> 01:36:04,559
Speaker 2: they don't care, they're you know, narcissistic. All they want

1938
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:06,519
Speaker 2: to do is really get re elected right at the

1939
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:07,240
Speaker 2: end of the day.

1940
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:09,439
Speaker 1: Which is why causing problems for their reelection is the

1941
01:36:09,479 --> 01:36:12,559
Speaker 1: only strategy, because it's not like we've.

1942
01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:15,599
Speaker 3: Been, it's more electorally beneficial, which we have been.

1943
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:19,799
Speaker 1: There, we've been, you know, ceasefire has been a majority

1944
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:22,280
Speaker 1: of position since like day two of this war. Definitely,

1945
01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:24,960
Speaker 1: public opinion has been on the side of these protesters,

1946
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 1: not maybe in terms of the protest tactics, but in

1947
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:31,240
Speaker 1: terms of what they're actually protesting for a long time now,

1948
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:33,800
Speaker 1: and it hasn't matter. So if this is your number

1949
01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:38,040
Speaker 1: one issue, if you cannot sleep at night, see like

1950
01:36:38,320 --> 01:36:41,400
Speaker 1: seeing these children starving to death, children being bombed, knowing

1951
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:44,400
Speaker 1: these are tax dollars, Like what else are you going

1952
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:47,720
Speaker 1: to do? This is the the only And they have

1953
01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:51,519
Speaker 1: been so disciplined, ninety nine percent nonviolent, Like the worst

1954
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,840
Speaker 1: thing they've done is break a window and enter one

1955
01:36:53,880 --> 01:36:57,880
Speaker 1: campus building. Okay, that's that is incredible discipline, very big

1956
01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:00,599
Speaker 1: contrast definitely with the seventies protests and with the Black

1957
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:04,639
Speaker 1: Lives Matter protests as well, Like this is the this

1958
01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:08,040
Speaker 1: is not guaranteed to work, but at least it has

1959
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:12,320
Speaker 1: a chance of working. And I think that's that's all

1960
01:37:12,360 --> 01:37:14,559
Speaker 1: you can That's all you can bet on, is that, like,

1961
01:37:14,640 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 1: I'm doing everything I can think to do. I'm being

1962
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:20,639
Speaker 1: principled in my non violent tactics, which they really have been.

1963
01:37:21,080 --> 01:37:25,240
Speaker 1: And even now, even with the I mean incredit, I've

1964
01:37:25,280 --> 01:37:27,759
Speaker 1: never seen a media propaganda campaign like what we're seeing

1965
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 1: with this. I genuinely this is beyond war and tearor

1966
01:37:31,400 --> 01:37:36,920
Speaker 1: whole of politics, congressional response banning, TikTok, Dana bash and

1967
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:40,439
Speaker 1: you know Fox News making common cause with bab Net

1968
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 1: and ya whoever these kids are Nazis and Joe Biden, mcgrid,

1969
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:46,599
Speaker 1: the whole bit, everybody in league. And you still have

1970
01:37:46,760 --> 01:37:49,280
Speaker 1: a clear plurality of Democrats who are like, no, I'm

1971
01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:51,479
Speaker 1: with the protesters. I mean, that is kind of that

1972
01:37:51,560 --> 01:37:55,040
Speaker 1: is pretty extraordinary. Like the Democratic base is quite split

1973
01:37:55,439 --> 01:37:58,640
Speaker 1: with specifically regards to the protest tactics in spite of

1974
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:01,599
Speaker 1: the most insane propaganda campaign I've ever seen, and American

1975
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:04,640
Speaker 1: public is very clearly on the side of the protesters

1976
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:06,880
Speaker 1: in terms of wanting to secure a ceasefire and the

1977
01:38:07,080 --> 01:38:10,519
Speaker 1: end and not supporting for their aid to Israel and

1978
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:13,160
Speaker 1: saying that Israeli military has gone too far, like they're

1979
01:38:13,160 --> 01:38:15,479
Speaker 1: on their side and that. So, yeah, I think this

1980
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:18,760
Speaker 1: is the only thing that has even a chance of

1981
01:38:18,800 --> 01:38:21,439
Speaker 1: making a difference. And so I you know, I say,

1982
01:38:21,439 --> 01:38:23,360
Speaker 1: God bless these protesters, Thank God for them.

1983
01:38:23,439 --> 01:38:25,599
Speaker 3: We'll find out. We'll find out whether there's a cost

1984
01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:25,920
Speaker 3: or not.

1985
01:38:28,280 --> 01:38:29,519
Speaker 1: All right, Siger, what are you looking at?

1986
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:29,840
Speaker 3: Well?

1987
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:33,320
Speaker 2: Political correctness is killing comedy. That's a sentiment I may

1988
01:38:33,320 --> 01:38:35,640
Speaker 2: have agreed with, like seven years ago, when Louis c.

1989
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:38,080
Speaker 2: K lost tens of millions of dollars over a New

1990
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:41,200
Speaker 2: York Times story and decades old allegations. It's a comment

1991
01:38:41,320 --> 01:38:43,839
Speaker 2: maybe I would have agreed with when comedy movies themselves

1992
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:46,599
Speaker 2: were basically stopped being made in Hollywood, like a decade ago,

1993
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:49,200
Speaker 2: as the latest Marvel films were coming out.

1994
01:38:49,400 --> 01:38:51,000
Speaker 3: But it's not really a sentiment.

1995
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:53,240
Speaker 2: That I agree with anymore, and in fact, increasingly think

1996
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:55,879
Speaker 2: is being used by people who aren't funny to complain

1997
01:38:56,000 --> 01:38:59,400
Speaker 2: about their own mediac This monologue was really inspired by

1998
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:01,640
Speaker 2: both the hoost of Tom Brady that I watched on

1999
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:06,040
Speaker 2: Netflix yesterday and juxtaposed next to another Netflix star, Jerry Seinfeld.

2000
01:39:06,240 --> 01:39:09,719
Speaker 2: Seinfeld is hot off of his latest project, Unfrosted, where

2001
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:12,880
Speaker 2: doing his media tour he made some interesting comments about

2002
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:14,680
Speaker 2: comedy and what is stifling it.

2003
01:39:14,720 --> 01:39:16,160
Speaker 3: According to him, let's take a listen.

2004
01:39:16,280 --> 01:39:18,840
Speaker 6: Oh Cheers is on, Oh Mash is on, a Mary

2005
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:22,400
Speaker 6: Tyler Moore is on, all the families on. You just

2006
01:39:22,479 --> 01:39:24,600
Speaker 6: expected there'll be some funny stuff we can watch on

2007
01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:27,640
Speaker 6: TV tonight. Well guess what where is it? This is

2008
01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:31,800
Speaker 6: the result of the extreme left and PC crap and

2009
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:35,400
Speaker 6: people worrying so much about offending other people when you

2010
01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:38,320
Speaker 6: write a script and it goes into four or five

2011
01:39:38,400 --> 01:39:43,519
Speaker 6: different hands, committees groups. Here's our thought about this joke. Well,

2012
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:46,160
Speaker 6: that's the end of your comedy. They move the gates,

2013
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:49,280
Speaker 6: Like in the scheme culture, the gates are moving. Your

2014
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:52,839
Speaker 6: job is to be agile and clever enough that wherever

2015
01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:55,559
Speaker 6: they put the gates, I'm going to make the gate.

2016
01:39:55,680 --> 01:39:58,120
Speaker 3: So Gordon and seinfeldt the extreme left and PC crap

2017
01:39:58,160 --> 01:39:59,519
Speaker 3: has killed comedy. Now.

2018
01:39:59,600 --> 01:40:01,679
Speaker 2: Maybe there would be something to that if it wasn't

2019
01:40:01,680 --> 01:40:04,439
Speaker 2: for the fact that the movie he produced, Unfrosted, is

2020
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:07,760
Speaker 2: probably one of the dumbest Anadyne and Born comedies that

2021
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:10,879
Speaker 2: I've ever had the indignity to suffer through for research

2022
01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:14,000
Speaker 2: purposes of this monologue. What really revealed to me, though,

2023
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:17,280
Speaker 2: is how dumb Seinfeld's take here is, especially with the

2024
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:19,120
Speaker 2: release of the Tom Brady.

2025
01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:22,040
Speaker 3: Roast that just happened. Now, everyone should go watch this roast.

2026
01:40:22,120 --> 01:40:24,360
Speaker 2: I don't even watch football, and I got all the references,

2027
01:40:24,479 --> 01:40:26,840
Speaker 2: but what I really took away from watching it was

2028
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:30,719
Speaker 2: how dead political correctness and so called woke left limits

2029
01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:31,720
Speaker 2: on comedy are.

2030
01:40:31,840 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 3: Now.

2031
01:40:32,439 --> 01:40:36,160
Speaker 2: This is mainstream comedy roast on the most establishment of

2032
01:40:36,200 --> 01:40:40,679
Speaker 2: all places, Netflix, with people like Kim Kardashian and Ben

2033
01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:43,960
Speaker 2: Affleck in attendance. It's about as establishment as it gets.

2034
01:40:44,240 --> 01:40:47,720
Speaker 2: And with that, they allowed the madman Tony Hinchcliff to

2035
01:40:47,800 --> 01:40:49,000
Speaker 2: sound off like this.

2036
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:52,559
Speaker 7: Tom is afraid of the giants, which is why Kevin

2037
01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:56,400
Speaker 7: Hart is hosting Tonight All Night. He's been using the

2038
01:40:56,439 --> 01:41:00,240
Speaker 7: stool that Aaron Hernandez kicked out from under himself is

2039
01:41:00,240 --> 01:41:03,360
Speaker 7: so small that when his ancestors picked cotton. They called

2040
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:07,160
Speaker 7: it deadlifting. Tom Brady is a Patriot, which is surprising

2041
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:10,840
Speaker 7: considering he looks like a Confederate fag. Clearly your ex

2042
01:41:10,880 --> 01:41:13,320
Speaker 7: wife takes after you. I hear she's out there draining

2043
01:41:13,400 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 7: balls right now. People love you, Tom. You have the

2044
01:41:16,320 --> 01:41:19,640
Speaker 7: same fan base as Kyle Rittenhouse Gronk. I'm happy you

2045
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 7: could take a break from writing Santa letters to be

2046
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:24,519
Speaker 7: here today. I knew you were here when we were

2047
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:27,599
Speaker 7: all out of chocolate milk backstage. You look like the

2048
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:31,080
Speaker 7: final boss in George Floyd the video game. Jeff is

2049
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:34,120
Speaker 7: so Jewish he only watches football for the coin toss.

2050
01:41:34,479 --> 01:41:37,360
Speaker 7: Nikki has such a bad eating disorder the industry keeps

2051
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:40,400
Speaker 7: shoving her down our throat. You might recognize over our

2052
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:44,479
Speaker 7: podcast appearances, specials and winning the Triple Crown at Churchill Downs.

2053
01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:47,160
Speaker 7: You might recognize Kevin is the jockey that wrote her,

2054
01:41:47,400 --> 01:41:50,080
Speaker 7: and that's Churchill Downs the racetrack. Not to be confused

2055
01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:52,400
Speaker 7: with what Jeff Ross looks like when he smokes a cigar.

2056
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:57,960
Speaker 7: Sam Jay in Obese African American lesbian. So by having here,

2057
01:41:58,080 --> 01:42:01,320
Speaker 7: Netflix checked off a lot of boxes. Andrew Schultz, I'm

2058
01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:03,840
Speaker 7: glad you took a break from watching YouTube videos on

2059
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:07,680
Speaker 7: how to tap up black dudes. Correctly, Schultz's mom is

2060
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:10,960
Speaker 7: a professional ballroom dancer, which means she's a stripper that

2061
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:14,200
Speaker 7: talks too much. Bert Kreischer is a king. He looks

2062
01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:16,559
Speaker 7: like at the Tiger King and the Liver King, only

2063
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:18,400
Speaker 7: ate Burger King and had a liver that looked like

2064
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:19,400
Speaker 7: Martin Luther.

2065
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:20,760
Speaker 3: King got beat up by Rodney King.

2066
01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:24,880
Speaker 7: And how about the parents from the Great Ron Burgundy

2067
01:42:25,120 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 7: huh ah whales vagina which reminds me Kim Kardashian's here.

2068
01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:34,120
Speaker 7: She's had a lot of black men celebrating her end zone. Kim.

2069
01:42:34,360 --> 01:42:37,200
Speaker 7: Word of advice, close your legs. You have more public

2070
01:42:37,240 --> 01:42:43,000
Speaker 7: beef than Kendrick and Drake. Thank you guys, Thank you Tom,

2071
01:42:43,160 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 7: thank you joke, Thank you Netflix.

2072
01:42:45,640 --> 01:42:49,599
Speaker 2: So we have gay jokes, black jokes, ju jokes, sex jokes,

2073
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:52,519
Speaker 2: retard jokes. I mean, is it me or is it

2074
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:54,680
Speaker 2: two thousand and five? Am I watching the Office? And

2075
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:57,639
Speaker 2: is Comedy Central on the best part? Despite the fact

2076
01:42:57,640 --> 01:43:01,120
Speaker 2: that this was watched by millions, including Hollywood darlings, like

2077
01:43:01,160 --> 01:43:04,080
Speaker 2: I said, Kevin Hart, Ben Affleck all these others, I

2078
01:43:04,160 --> 01:43:08,000
Speaker 2: couldn't even find a single think piece about how mean

2079
01:43:08,120 --> 01:43:11,240
Speaker 2: spirited it was, or how Tony Hinchcliff and Andrew Schaltz,

2080
01:43:11,320 --> 01:43:13,000
Speaker 2: Bird Krascher, Jeff Ross.

2081
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:14,920
Speaker 3: Or any of these other people should never work again.

2082
01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:17,880
Speaker 2: If you need proof that the PC comedy era is over,

2083
01:43:18,200 --> 01:43:19,639
Speaker 2: that's the proof right there.

2084
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:21,679
Speaker 3: And let's not forget the real.

2085
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:25,120
Speaker 2: Sign that before Seinfeld even spoke about how dead this

2086
01:43:25,240 --> 01:43:29,120
Speaker 2: comedy is, Shane Gillis, who was literally canceled from Saturday

2087
01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:31,799
Speaker 2: Night Line for his jokes about Asians in twenty nineteen,

2088
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:35,200
Speaker 2: was invited to host Saturday Night Live this year twenty

2089
01:43:35,200 --> 01:43:38,000
Speaker 2: twenty four, and while while he was there, he made

2090
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:40,680
Speaker 2: jokes about people with Down syndrome. Now, there may have

2091
01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:43,040
Speaker 2: been a few tweets criticizing him at the time, but

2092
01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:46,720
Speaker 2: let's be real, nothing even close to the cancel brigade

2093
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:50,080
Speaker 2: of the late twenty tens. If anything, Shane Starr is

2094
01:43:50,120 --> 01:43:53,240
Speaker 2: even brighter, and he is hosting shows with Schultz directly

2095
01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:56,880
Speaker 2: for Netflix, selling out massive arenas. Now, I don't write

2096
01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:58,760
Speaker 2: any of this to say that political correctness and woke

2097
01:43:58,760 --> 01:44:02,320
Speaker 2: influences on comedy we're never a problem, only to say

2098
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:05,599
Speaker 2: that I don't think it's really a problem anymore. And

2099
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:08,320
Speaker 2: that people who rely on the crutch for why it's

2100
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:11,720
Speaker 2: ruining comedy, maybe they have another agenda that they're trying

2101
01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:13,920
Speaker 2: to push, like, I don't know, maybe the fact that

2102
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:17,280
Speaker 2: Jerry is deciding to make these comments at the exact moment,

2103
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:19,519
Speaker 2: that his wife is donating huge amounts of money to

2104
01:44:19,560 --> 01:44:22,519
Speaker 2: pro Israel protesters, and that he has been urging people

2105
01:44:22,600 --> 01:44:25,720
Speaker 2: to read Barry Weiss's The Free Press, and Broadley has

2106
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:27,920
Speaker 2: decided to now enter the fray as a pro Israel

2107
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:31,600
Speaker 2: voice since October seventh, Camp help, But notice that Unfrosted

2108
01:44:31,600 --> 01:44:33,960
Speaker 2: co star Amy Schumer also been doing the exact same

2109
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:37,560
Speaker 2: thing lately. If anything, they appear to be the new Snowflakes,

2110
01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:39,720
Speaker 2: crying about the fact that people disagree with them in

2111
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:43,160
Speaker 2: public and then blaming their middling performance or their products

2112
01:44:43,400 --> 01:44:46,280
Speaker 2: on the very forces that they participated in when it

2113
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:49,120
Speaker 2: was something that was on their side. Now, as for

2114
01:44:49,160 --> 01:44:51,360
Speaker 2: why any of this matters, it's because I've always thought

2115
01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:53,639
Speaker 2: comedy is like a decade ahead of where a lot

2116
01:44:53,680 --> 01:44:54,720
Speaker 2: of the media ends up.

2117
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:55,759
Speaker 3: It's not a coincidence.

2118
01:44:55,800 --> 01:44:58,759
Speaker 2: A comedy podcasts are really what birth the podcasting format.

2119
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:01,439
Speaker 2: It was the falling apart of the establishment comedy on

2120
01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:05,080
Speaker 2: control forces that gave rise to YouTube and podcast popularity,

2121
01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:07,840
Speaker 2: and that presses show like ours many others who entered

2122
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:08,720
Speaker 2: that fray later on.

2123
01:45:09,360 --> 01:45:10,760
Speaker 3: So take from this what you will.

2124
01:45:10,960 --> 01:45:12,840
Speaker 2: I'll just take the victory and notice that what's really

2125
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:16,200
Speaker 2: popular again today and what even establishment forces are okay with,

2126
01:45:16,479 --> 01:45:18,240
Speaker 2: maybe that's a bright spot for the future.

2127
01:45:18,439 --> 01:45:19,800
Speaker 3: I mean, Chrissell, how can you see that?

2128
01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:22,760
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear my reaction to Sagre's monologue,

2129
01:45:22,800 --> 01:45:26,559
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com. We

2130
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:30,400
Speaker 1: are extraordinarily fortunate to be joined by a remarkable guest

2131
01:45:30,520 --> 01:45:34,880
Speaker 1: this morning. Moira Lang is a palliative care doctor. She

2132
01:45:35,080 --> 01:45:39,479
Speaker 1: just recently returned from Gaza, where she visited many places,

2133
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:43,800
Speaker 1: including Anajar hospital which is in Rafa. Obviously it's very

2134
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:47,559
Speaker 1: relevant given the ground invasion that just began in Rafa. Doctor. Welcome,

2135
01:45:47,600 --> 01:45:50,360
Speaker 1: it's great to have you, Thank you, it's great to

2136
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:52,959
Speaker 1: be here. Yeah, So first, just tell us the context

2137
01:45:53,160 --> 01:45:55,280
Speaker 1: in which you were in Gaza and a little bit

2138
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:56,280
Speaker 1: of what you saw there.

2139
01:45:57,400 --> 01:46:00,240
Speaker 5: Sure, I mean, I've had the privilege, incredible privileg You're

2140
01:46:00,240 --> 01:46:03,559
Speaker 5: traveling to Gaza for ten years and working with colleagues

2141
01:46:03,600 --> 01:46:09,000
Speaker 5: in hospitals, in universities, and this particular visit, I was

2142
01:46:09,040 --> 01:46:11,559
Speaker 5: able to see what was happening to people who are

2143
01:46:11,560 --> 01:46:16,400
Speaker 5: living with illnesses such as cancer, kidney disease, heart disease,

2144
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:19,439
Speaker 5: and to visit the colleagues and healthcare colleagues who are

2145
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:22,240
Speaker 5: taking care of them. We were looking particularly, for example,

2146
01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:26,640
Speaker 5: at pain relief. Pain relief has been almost zero in

2147
01:46:27,200 --> 01:46:30,719
Speaker 5: Gaza during this last period, and I spent time yes

2148
01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:36,800
Speaker 5: in Alijar Hospital in fatimaal Zacha Hospital that's the oncology

2149
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:40,439
Speaker 5: service that has been displaced three times already, and as

2150
01:46:40,439 --> 01:46:43,880
Speaker 5: well as neonatal hospitals and primary care hospitals in Rufa.

2151
01:46:44,680 --> 01:46:47,400
Speaker 2: Doctor, what can you tell us about some of the

2152
01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:50,960
Speaker 2: remaining health care facilities. You're talking there about the reduction

2153
01:46:51,080 --> 01:46:53,720
Speaker 2: in pain medicine, Others we hear about the destruction of

2154
01:46:53,720 --> 01:46:56,600
Speaker 2: the infrastructure. What was it like to actually witness firsthand?

2155
01:46:57,320 --> 01:47:02,559
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, Number one, it's an absolute privilege always to

2156
01:47:02,600 --> 01:47:07,320
Speaker 5: spend time with colleagues in Gaza, some of the most inspirational, courageous,

2157
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:11,080
Speaker 5: compassionate people that I know. The first thing that struck

2158
01:47:11,120 --> 01:47:15,080
Speaker 5: me was that the healthcare colleagues were utterly and completely exhausted.

2159
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:18,080
Speaker 5: They had been working under these conditions for six months.

2160
01:47:18,120 --> 01:47:21,559
Speaker 5: They had been displaced personally and professionally. Every time your

2161
01:47:21,560 --> 01:47:25,040
Speaker 5: hospital displaced, you lose what little supplies you'd built up.

2162
01:47:26,400 --> 01:47:29,839
Speaker 5: They had not been paid any salary for six months.

2163
01:47:30,120 --> 01:47:33,680
Speaker 5: The price of basic foodstuffs was sky high, making it

2164
01:47:33,680 --> 01:47:37,439
Speaker 5: impossible for their families. They were not sleeping any night.

2165
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:41,040
Speaker 5: I was not sleeping any night, continually all night, drones

2166
01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:43,960
Speaker 5: and bombs, and yet they were still coming to work

2167
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:46,280
Speaker 5: and doing the best they could. So that's the first

2168
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:49,479
Speaker 5: thing I'd say. And it was a pleasure to see

2169
01:47:49,479 --> 01:47:52,519
Speaker 5: people that I've known. I've taught in the medical school,

2170
01:47:52,560 --> 01:47:55,280
Speaker 5: so you know some of the young doctors. Would you

2171
01:47:55,320 --> 01:47:59,280
Speaker 5: believe I was teaching communication and ethics just last August,

2172
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:02,360
Speaker 5: and that brought up many a conversation about what ethics

2173
01:48:02,400 --> 01:48:05,160
Speaker 5: looked like in healthcare. But it was a pleasure to

2174
01:48:05,160 --> 01:48:08,679
Speaker 5: see people doing there at most best. But I couldn't

2175
01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:11,639
Speaker 5: believe how exhausted they were. There was a little bit

2176
01:48:11,680 --> 01:48:15,760
Speaker 5: of teasing about how much weight everybody had lost, but

2177
01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:19,920
Speaker 5: the reality was minimum fifteen to twenty kilograms, and that

2178
01:48:20,040 --> 01:48:22,280
Speaker 5: was in a place that had some access to food.

2179
01:48:22,880 --> 01:48:25,840
Speaker 5: I was only able to be in telephone contact with

2180
01:48:25,920 --> 01:48:28,920
Speaker 5: those in the north. So that's my first thing that

2181
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:33,120
Speaker 5: struck me. The second is everywhere was full. The hospital

2182
01:48:33,120 --> 01:48:36,400
Speaker 5: on the shar a small district hospital. Over the years,

2183
01:48:36,439 --> 01:48:38,439
Speaker 5: RAFA has said, you don't give us a big hospital,

2184
01:48:38,479 --> 01:48:40,240
Speaker 5: but there was a big hospital just a few miles

2185
01:48:40,280 --> 01:48:43,040
Speaker 5: up the road in han Juniz, and then the major

2186
01:48:43,080 --> 01:48:46,760
Speaker 5: one obviously in North Gaza. That hospital should have had

2187
01:48:46,760 --> 01:48:52,519
Speaker 5: sixty beds. It had anything between six hundred seven hundred

2188
01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:55,040
Speaker 5: patients coming through the hospital and even more than a

2189
01:48:55,120 --> 01:48:58,439
Speaker 5: thousand in the accident emergency. It was the first point

2190
01:48:58,479 --> 01:49:01,400
Speaker 5: of call for trauma, even though it only had a

2191
01:49:01,439 --> 01:49:05,519
Speaker 5: simple X ray machine and some ultrasound now. In fact,

2192
01:49:05,560 --> 01:49:08,640
Speaker 5: the doctors told me they felt they were working with

2193
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:11,680
Speaker 5: their hands tied behind their back, and they told me

2194
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:16,000
Speaker 5: stories of young people with diabetes coming in with very

2195
01:49:16,120 --> 01:49:20,400
Speaker 5: dangerous blood tests something called potassium very very low. It's

2196
01:49:20,439 --> 01:49:23,479
Speaker 5: a known complication. Yet they couldn't test for that, and

2197
01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:26,080
Speaker 5: so the patient should have been an ICU, should have

2198
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:29,519
Speaker 5: had blood tests. All the time they were still managing

2199
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:31,759
Speaker 5: to care for those patients, and a one young doctor

2200
01:49:31,800 --> 01:49:34,519
Speaker 5: told me how we slept for forty eight hours next

2201
01:49:34,520 --> 01:49:37,920
Speaker 5: to the bed of a young man his age who

2202
01:49:38,040 --> 01:49:41,800
Speaker 5: was dying of diabetic keto acidosis, that's this complication of diabetes,

2203
01:49:42,120 --> 01:49:45,800
Speaker 5: and actually managed somehow to help that patient survive. So

2204
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:54,080
Speaker 5: exhausted healthcare staff, dreadful, dreadful circumstances, patients in huge trouble

2205
01:49:54,120 --> 01:49:57,320
Speaker 5: with their chronic illness and then their new illness such

2206
01:49:57,360 --> 01:50:00,479
Speaker 5: as a pneumonia or infection, and then maybe also a

2207
01:50:00,479 --> 01:50:04,640
Speaker 5: traumatic event with an injury, so all of those combined

2208
01:50:05,200 --> 01:50:07,480
Speaker 5: and still people trying to care with compassion.

2209
01:50:08,280 --> 01:50:12,320
Speaker 1: Doctor you talked about how there was basically no pain management,

2210
01:50:12,520 --> 01:50:17,000
Speaker 1: which sounds very, I guess, sanitized when you say it.

2211
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:22,080
Speaker 1: If you are a patient who's suffering from a traumatic injury,

2212
01:50:22,280 --> 01:50:27,240
Speaker 1: if you are struggling with aggressive cancer, what does that

2213
01:50:27,320 --> 01:50:29,400
Speaker 1: actually look like, and what does it look like to

2214
01:50:29,439 --> 01:50:32,480
Speaker 1: try to care for these individuals who are in absolutely

2215
01:50:32,479 --> 01:50:34,920
Speaker 1: excruciating pain, because we've all seen the reports of even

2216
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:38,599
Speaker 1: children having to undergo amputations with no anesthetic, women having

2217
01:50:38,680 --> 01:50:41,600
Speaker 1: to have cesareans with no anesthetic.

2218
01:50:42,920 --> 01:50:44,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you for that question. I want to put

2219
01:50:44,960 --> 01:50:47,400
Speaker 5: it in a context that globally this is a big issue.

2220
01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:50,720
Speaker 5: I've spent thirty years of my professional career with other

2221
01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:53,479
Speaker 5: brilliant colleagues trying to work on this issue, because this

2222
01:50:53,560 --> 01:50:56,880
Speaker 5: is a problem in many places, but when you're in

2223
01:50:57,040 --> 01:51:00,960
Speaker 5: this kind of situation, it is unbelo be the level

2224
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:06,040
Speaker 5: of suffering. Just imagine the healthcare workers doing these procedures

2225
01:51:06,080 --> 01:51:10,120
Speaker 5: with that anesthetic. The children, the mothers with cesarean sections

2226
01:51:10,479 --> 01:51:13,559
Speaker 5: without anesthetic or with minimal or you get maybe one

2227
01:51:13,600 --> 01:51:16,440
Speaker 5: dose of a painkiller because that's all there, but nothing afterwards.

2228
01:51:16,680 --> 01:51:21,519
Speaker 5: Think of rehabilitating from your severe injury, all the dressings changes.

2229
01:51:21,920 --> 01:51:25,000
Speaker 5: Think of the burns patients. I spoke to some of

2230
01:51:25,040 --> 01:51:28,840
Speaker 5: my colleagues whose parents died of severe burns and they

2231
01:51:28,920 --> 01:51:31,880
Speaker 5: watched them cry as they died. And this is no

2232
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:34,839
Speaker 5: criticism of my colleagues. And then you moved to the cancer.

2233
01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:37,519
Speaker 5: I had just had the privilege of working with my

2234
01:51:37,560 --> 01:51:43,160
Speaker 5: GAZA colleagues to train twenty amazing multidisciplinary GAZA colleagues in

2235
01:51:43,240 --> 01:51:46,519
Speaker 5: pain and palliative care. They have the skills, we were

2236
01:51:46,520 --> 01:51:49,640
Speaker 5: about to graduate them. They were pharmacists and doctors and

2237
01:51:49,640 --> 01:51:53,080
Speaker 5: physios and nurses, and they were saying, you gave us

2238
01:51:53,120 --> 01:51:57,080
Speaker 5: the skill and we can't use it. And the stories

2239
01:51:57,120 --> 01:51:59,840
Speaker 5: they told of the cancer patients children as well as

2240
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:05,280
Speaker 5: adults just crying, crying in pain was absolutely devastating. I

2241
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:07,880
Speaker 5: have to say. The day we were there, they had

2242
01:52:07,920 --> 01:52:11,840
Speaker 5: got a small donation through UNISEEF had arrived in fatimal Zacha.

2243
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:16,160
Speaker 5: That was the clinic for the oncology hospital, beautiful oncology

2244
01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 5: hospital called the Turkish Palestine Friendship Hospital in northern Gaza

2245
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:23,240
Speaker 5: that had been displaced now the three times, and they

2246
01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:26,400
Speaker 5: got some and immediately my colleagues were coming to me

2247
01:52:26,439 --> 01:52:27,760
Speaker 5: and saying, you know, we know how to do this,

2248
01:52:27,880 --> 01:52:30,479
Speaker 5: Let's get on and do this. But they also told

2249
01:52:30,520 --> 01:52:33,559
Speaker 5: me that every time they were displaced, they usually lost

2250
01:52:33,640 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 5: all their supplies. And yesterday that clinic was displaced again.

2251
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:40,559
Speaker 5: And I have no idea whether where they've been displaced too.

2252
01:52:40,920 --> 01:52:43,400
Speaker 5: I mean, where can they be displaced too? We'll even

2253
01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:46,800
Speaker 5: have a drop of anaalgesia, and it's absolutely heartbreaking and

2254
01:52:46,880 --> 01:52:48,080
Speaker 5: unimaginable suffering.

2255
01:52:48,439 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, doctor you mentioned there the weight loss, just to

2256
01:52:51,439 --> 01:52:54,400
Speaker 2: translate for our us audience, that's about thirty three to

2257
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:56,520
Speaker 2: forty four pounds that you're describing.

2258
01:52:57,160 --> 01:52:57,880
Speaker 3: In terms of that.

2259
01:52:57,920 --> 01:53:00,280
Speaker 2: We've heard a lot here about the destructive of act

2260
01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:03,439
Speaker 2: of famine and the lack of aid what did you

2261
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:06,760
Speaker 2: witness with respect to famine and also to the lack

2262
01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:10,320
Speaker 2: of humanitarian aid being allowed into the strip As you.

2263
01:53:10,360 --> 01:53:12,720
Speaker 5: Come into Rufa through across the sin idea is that

2264
01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:14,639
Speaker 5: the first thing you say, that's the cross thing from

2265
01:53:14,680 --> 01:53:17,080
Speaker 5: Egypt into Gaza at the south, the first thing you

2266
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:20,720
Speaker 5: see is queues and ques and cues of trucks. And

2267
01:53:20,760 --> 01:53:23,200
Speaker 5: I have to say, my heart sank and I had

2268
01:53:23,200 --> 01:53:26,960
Speaker 5: a deep sense of shame that. You know how humanitarian

2269
01:53:26,960 --> 01:53:29,280
Speaker 5: and access to manitarian aid is a basic right, it's

2270
01:53:29,439 --> 01:53:33,800
Speaker 5: enshrined in international law, and it was awful to see that.

2271
01:53:35,560 --> 01:53:38,320
Speaker 5: What we saw in Rafa at that point was people

2272
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:42,880
Speaker 5: somehow getting by. I mean a kilo of chicken or

2273
01:53:42,920 --> 01:53:44,720
Speaker 5: two kilos of chicken. They haven't had any for months,

2274
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:47,639
Speaker 5: arrived frozen from Egypt, and I think it was fifty

2275
01:53:47,680 --> 01:53:50,000
Speaker 5: or sixty dollars to buy enough for a family. And

2276
01:53:50,560 --> 01:53:53,479
Speaker 5: remember I said no one had been paid, so they

2277
01:53:53,520 --> 01:53:56,639
Speaker 5: were somehow managing. There was a few tins coming in

2278
01:53:57,080 --> 01:54:00,439
Speaker 5: and people were getting by, but were still lose weight.

2279
01:54:01,000 --> 01:54:03,840
Speaker 5: And of course, once you start losing below a certain level,

2280
01:54:04,040 --> 01:54:06,679
Speaker 5: you're using up all of your protein stores. You become

2281
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:10,519
Speaker 5: liable to infections. I saw people dying of pressure sores.

2282
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:15,840
Speaker 5: Now that's a combination of untreated wounds, of not enough water,

2283
01:54:16,520 --> 01:54:19,840
Speaker 5: no hygiene because you're living in circumstances where there is

2284
01:54:19,880 --> 01:54:23,600
Speaker 5: either no toilet facilities or one share between hundreds, and

2285
01:54:23,640 --> 01:54:27,680
Speaker 5: can imagine hygiene. It's getting hot now, that kind of

2286
01:54:27,720 --> 01:54:31,800
Speaker 5: infections were rising. That's a result of malnutrition. But even

2287
01:54:31,920 --> 01:54:34,600
Speaker 5: worse I was hearing from Northern Gaza. I had two

2288
01:54:34,640 --> 01:54:37,040
Speaker 5: long calls with the very dear colleague I've worked with

2289
01:54:37,120 --> 01:54:41,160
Speaker 5: a long time. A tomato was costing seven dollars. People

2290
01:54:41,200 --> 01:54:45,280
Speaker 5: were dying trying to catch the food coming from the sky.

2291
01:54:45,400 --> 01:54:49,040
Speaker 5: I think you've seen the and all of this is

2292
01:54:49,120 --> 01:54:52,080
Speaker 5: one hour from where I used to come into Asa

2293
01:54:52,440 --> 01:54:54,360
Speaker 5: when the area is crossing, So you know, it's not

2294
01:54:54,400 --> 01:54:57,640
Speaker 5: like an earthquake in a distant mountainous place. This is

2295
01:54:57,960 --> 01:55:01,800
Speaker 5: just beside where food and water are available. And I

2296
01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:05,560
Speaker 5: also attended the meeting where we got an update on

2297
01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:08,720
Speaker 5: the nutritional status. And there's four stages before you get

2298
01:55:08,760 --> 01:55:12,280
Speaker 5: to famine, and each of those stages had been crossed

2299
01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:15,760
Speaker 5: and crossed, and now we were looking at moving Northern

2300
01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:19,160
Speaker 5: Gaza fully into famine. And that is not severe malnourishment.

2301
01:55:19,720 --> 01:55:24,680
Speaker 5: That is imminent death of thousands, and it hardly ever happens.

2302
01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:30,880
Speaker 5: We see malnutrition, but a man made famine is almost unheardle.

2303
01:55:32,720 --> 01:55:36,400
Speaker 1: Doctor. When we covered this morning, how the ground invasion

2304
01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:40,640
Speaker 1: long threatened of Rafa has begun along with air strikes,

2305
01:55:40,720 --> 01:55:43,920
Speaker 1: the Idea has taken control of Palestine inside of the border,

2306
01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:47,880
Speaker 1: has shut that crossing with Egypt there in Rafa. As

2307
01:55:47,880 --> 01:55:52,160
Speaker 1: someone who has been in Rafa, when you hear that news,

2308
01:55:52,320 --> 01:55:55,120
Speaker 1: when you see those images, what does that mean to you?

2309
01:55:56,400 --> 01:55:59,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it wasn't a lot of sleep last night. Obviously,

2310
01:55:59,160 --> 01:56:01,440
Speaker 5: we were communicating, trying to find out who was okay,

2311
01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:04,600
Speaker 5: where people were, what had happened. The very house that

2312
01:56:04,640 --> 01:56:06,720
Speaker 5: I was living in while I was there with colleagues

2313
01:56:06,920 --> 01:56:10,800
Speaker 5: has been evacuated. While I was there, there were bombs

2314
01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:13,080
Speaker 5: killing people in the house next door, and of course

2315
01:56:13,120 --> 01:56:18,800
Speaker 5: we remember the very public well publicized deaths killings of

2316
01:56:18,840 --> 01:56:22,040
Speaker 5: World Central kitchen stuff. I mean, what I was hearing

2317
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:24,440
Speaker 5: last night was just absolute panic. No one had fuel.

2318
01:56:24,520 --> 01:56:26,440
Speaker 5: They knew this might happen, but they'd nowhere to go.

2319
01:56:26,480 --> 01:56:29,320
Speaker 5: They're trying to get out the way. Where can they go?

2320
01:56:29,640 --> 01:56:33,320
Speaker 5: They say they're moving for peace, but there's nowhere to go,

2321
01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:36,480
Speaker 5: there's nowhere safe to go, and people are just trying

2322
01:56:36,520 --> 01:56:40,040
Speaker 5: to desperately find a way to survive. I spoke to

2323
01:56:40,040 --> 01:56:43,839
Speaker 5: a colleague in northern Gaza, a very dear colleague working

2324
01:56:44,040 --> 01:56:47,920
Speaker 5: through the whole of this time, and he said to me,

2325
01:56:47,960 --> 01:56:50,120
Speaker 5: dear Moira, I'm so happy to hear you and Gaza,

2326
01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:54,080
Speaker 5: but we have lost hope in the international community, and

2327
01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:57,560
Speaker 5: our people are simply awaiting our fate. And that's the

2328
01:56:57,600 --> 01:57:00,760
Speaker 5: sense I had last night. Number One is the international

2329
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:05,640
Speaker 5: community to protect civilians, to protect healthcare, to protect the

2330
01:57:05,720 --> 01:57:11,440
Speaker 5: children and the sick, and also where is the humanity?

2331
01:57:12,160 --> 01:57:15,080
Speaker 5: I see humanity every time I go to Gaza, and

2332
01:57:15,120 --> 01:57:19,600
Speaker 5: I've described already what I've seen, but I felt a

2333
01:57:19,640 --> 01:57:23,080
Speaker 5: deep sense of shame that as an international community we

2334
01:57:23,200 --> 01:57:27,480
Speaker 5: have not we have not upheld the dignity and humanity

2335
01:57:27,880 --> 01:57:28,880
Speaker 5: of the Gadsen people.

2336
01:57:30,040 --> 01:57:33,840
Speaker 1: Doctor. Last question that I have for you is, you know,

2337
01:57:33,960 --> 01:57:38,400
Speaker 1: the healthcare system has been under attack routinely by the

2338
01:57:38,440 --> 01:57:40,680
Speaker 1: idea of some of the justification that's been used as

2339
01:57:40,680 --> 01:57:43,080
Speaker 1: the context of Alshifa and other hospitals has been that

2340
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:47,600
Speaker 1: these have been places where Hamas has been sheltering, understanding

2341
01:57:47,640 --> 01:57:49,920
Speaker 1: that you were not in all places at all times,

2342
01:57:49,920 --> 01:57:51,360
Speaker 1: et cetera. I just wanted to ask you if you

2343
01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:54,360
Speaker 1: saw any evidence that would lead you to believe that

2344
01:57:54,400 --> 01:57:57,360
Speaker 1: there were Hamas operatives in any of the hospitals where

2345
01:57:57,480 --> 01:57:57,880
Speaker 1: you were.

2346
01:57:59,320 --> 01:57:59,680
Speaker 3: Thank you.

2347
01:58:00,080 --> 01:58:03,600
Speaker 5: I absolutely not. I saw no evidence in ten years,

2348
01:58:04,000 --> 01:58:07,360
Speaker 5: and all the hospitals that have been mentioned in news reports,

2349
01:58:07,800 --> 01:58:11,000
Speaker 5: particularly alshipa hospital, was a hospital. I knew well. This

2350
01:58:11,160 --> 01:58:14,040
Speaker 5: In your colleagues that have been detained, I knew well,

2351
01:58:14,160 --> 01:58:17,080
Speaker 5: and can I just mentioned the courage of my Gaza colleagues.

2352
01:58:17,440 --> 01:58:20,680
Speaker 5: They are still going to work even when they know

2353
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:23,520
Speaker 5: if that hospital is overrun, they will be detained. And

2354
01:58:23,560 --> 01:58:28,839
Speaker 5: we're hearing very very serious, disturbing eyewitness reports of torture

2355
01:58:29,120 --> 01:58:34,760
Speaker 5: on any particularly productors. So I saw absolutely none of that.

2356
01:58:34,920 --> 01:58:37,680
Speaker 5: I only saw. I didn't see any military presence at all,

2357
01:58:38,080 --> 01:58:42,560
Speaker 5: And there has not been any credible evidence shared. And

2358
01:58:42,600 --> 01:58:46,560
Speaker 5: I would really again say, we need independent journalism. We

2359
01:58:46,600 --> 01:58:51,840
Speaker 5: need independent international colleagues who can investigate and look into

2360
01:58:51,880 --> 01:58:56,680
Speaker 5: any of those allegations, but also can document which, according

2361
01:58:56,680 --> 01:58:59,800
Speaker 5: to the evidence presented to the international criminal courts, are

2362
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:01,440
Speaker 5: evidence of war crimes.

2363
01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:02,320
Speaker 3: Got it well?

2364
01:59:02,400 --> 01:59:05,000
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Doctor, are a very courageous woman.

2365
01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:06,360
Speaker 2: We appreciate your time very much.

2366
01:59:06,400 --> 01:59:08,280
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, doctor. Thank you so much for

2367
01:59:08,360 --> 01:59:10,400
Speaker 1: everything you've done. It's truly extraordinary.

2368
01:59:11,200 --> 01:59:11,560
Speaker 5: Thank you.

2369
01:59:11,920 --> 01:59:13,640
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate you.

2370
01:59:13,760 --> 01:59:15,560
Speaker 2: Great Counterpoint show tomorrow, See you later.