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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the

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Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into

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Speaker 1: the world of hunting the icon of North American wilderness

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Speaker 1: to bear. We'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation, but will

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Speaker 1: also bring you into some of the wildest country on

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Speaker 1: the planet chasing fair m. On this episode of the

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Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine Podcast, I'm sitting with Sean Curan and

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Speaker 1: Evan houston Field at the Archery Trade Association Show and

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the organization that they're a part of

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Speaker 1: called Sportsman's Alliance. I am really just starting to learn

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Speaker 1: about the Sportsman's Alliance, but they are the organization that

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Speaker 1: is defending the rights of hunters, trappers, houndsman These guys

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Speaker 1: are in the business of keeping things alive and swinging

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Speaker 1: towards the favor of conservation minded sportsmans and sport hunting.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna learn a ton on this podcast, and I

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Speaker 1: encourage you to really listen to the whole thing because

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Speaker 1: the mentality that we're fighting against in the whole of

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Speaker 1: hunting is people thinking that this fight is not theirs

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Speaker 1: because their specific type of hunting isn't under threat today

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Speaker 1: and what we've got to graft into the hunting culture

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Speaker 1: from the way we train our kids in every state,

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Speaker 1: in every place, is that to be a hunter in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen is to be a defender, and it is

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Speaker 1: to be a representative of the best that hunters have

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Speaker 1: to offer. We've got to be educated, we've got to

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Speaker 1: be articulate, and most of all, we've got to be

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Speaker 1: who we say we are, which is ethical, conservation based

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Speaker 1: hunters who truly love and care about wildlife and wild places.

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Speaker 1: I think you'll catch some of the enthusisa as m

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Speaker 1: and Sean and Evan as they lay out what the

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Speaker 1: Sportsman's Alliance is and how that we can get involved.

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Speaker 1: I am now a member of the Sportsman's Alliance and

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Speaker 1: plan on being a member from here on out. You're

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Speaker 1: gonna enjoy this podcast and you're gonna learn a ton.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine Podcast. We are at

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Speaker 1: the A T A show in Louisville, Kentucky, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I've got with me Sean Curran and Evan what's your

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Speaker 1: last name is? I'm glad you pronounced that nothing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that these guys are with the Sportsman's Alliance. And

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Speaker 1: so what we're gonna do in this podcast is I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna hear from these guys. I want to hear about

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Speaker 1: the missions mission of Sportsman's Alliance, what you guys are doing.

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Speaker 1: And because as everybody that listens to the podcast knows

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Speaker 1: a passion of ours that Bear Hunting Magazine is preservation

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Speaker 1: of of bear hunting, of hunting in general. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: we know because bear hunting is the low hanging fruit

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Speaker 1: of North American hunting right now and probably always has

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Speaker 1: been the low hanging fruit. I mean, it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty serious situation and it in and it's a

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Speaker 1: bigger situation than just oh, we might lose some parts

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Speaker 1: of bear hunting. And that's that's really what I want

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Speaker 1: to focus on you guys tonight because or not tonight

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Speaker 1: this morning, because the to me, the message that that

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Speaker 1: we're trying to do is recruit people that don't care

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Speaker 1: about bear hunting, that aren't bear hunters, they don't care

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Speaker 1: about my mountain lion hunting with hounds to get involved

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Speaker 1: because they support hunting in the future of hunting. To me,

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Speaker 1: that's the most critical aspect of everything that we're doing.

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Speaker 1: I don't care if you don't like hounds or do

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Speaker 1: like them, I don't care if you you know, we'll

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Speaker 1: ever bear huntover bait or not bear huntover bait. If

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Speaker 1: you want to see hunting in general continue the way

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Speaker 1: it has, conservation based hunting, then we need to get

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Speaker 1: more people involved. So that's why I reached out to

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Speaker 1: Sean and said, man, I'd love to do a podcast

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Speaker 1: with you guys, because you guys are really on the

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Speaker 1: on the front line of of this. So yeah, whichever

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Speaker 1: one of you could give us, give our people an

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Speaker 1: introduction to Sportsman's Alliance and what you guys are doing. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I may be getting ahead of myself. I also

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Speaker 1: I want to hear a little bit personally about you guys. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what let's start. Let's start there. Just

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Speaker 1: introduce yourself, Sean, just give me a little history of

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Speaker 1: your history with with Sportsman's Alliance and then we'll get

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Speaker 1: into after we get introductions from you guys, will go

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Speaker 1: into what you are doing. Perfect. Yeah, Sean current UM

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Speaker 1: vice President of Membership and Corporate Partnerships, here for the

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Speaker 1: Sportsman's Alliance and been here you know five years. UM.

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Speaker 1: I came to find out about the Sportsman's Alliance just

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Speaker 1: roundabout way years ago, just as an average joe hunter, right,

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Speaker 1: Um read an article uh in the in the newspaper

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Speaker 1: and and and found this organization and looked him up,

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Speaker 1: saw the mission, and I was like, man, this this

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Speaker 1: is a group I need to support. A member of

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Speaker 1: a bunch of different other organizations. Why am I not

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Speaker 1: remember this organization Because what they're doing is they're they're

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Speaker 1: looking out for hunting, fishing, trapping as a whole. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, became a member a few years later,

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Speaker 1: just had the opportunity to come and work for the

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Speaker 1: organization before that. You know, my background is in sales

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Speaker 1: and sales management. So it wasn't even where were originally

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Speaker 1: from oh Ohio. Um. Grew up in northeast Ohio. Moved

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Speaker 1: to central Ohio about you know, late nineties or so. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I just been involved in the outdoors my entire life.

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Speaker 1: My grandpa, you know, from a young age, you know,

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Speaker 1: had me out there for camping when I was old

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Speaker 1: enough to hunt. Um, you know, just just got out

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Speaker 1: there and started getting after it. So obviously something I'm

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Speaker 1: passionate about, something I love doing. Yeah, and to work

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Speaker 1: for an organization that's looking at for the whole. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a fantastic thing to do. Yeah, that's great, Evan.

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Speaker 1: So tell us your position with Sports and Alliance and

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Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself. Yeah. So I'm I'm president

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Speaker 1: CEO of the organization now, and I have been for

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Speaker 1: the last three years. Prior to that, I ran our

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Speaker 1: government affair shop and and I focused on our core

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Speaker 1: mission issues based work. I've been with the organization since

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. So entering what's that thirteen years now,

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Speaker 1: I suppose of of working on these kinds of issues

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Speaker 1: all across the country. Personally, for me, you know, I

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Speaker 1: didn't I didn't come from a from a hunting background.

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Speaker 1: I didn't come from a hunting household until later in life.

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Speaker 1: I didn't start hunting until my father moved back to

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Speaker 1: Minnesota while I was in college, and he picked it

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Speaker 1: up with some of his friends and and from there

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Speaker 1: got me involved it, does you know. I'd come up

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Speaker 1: and visit and see him at the holidays, and we'd

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Speaker 1: go out pheasant hunting and and do all that kind

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Speaker 1: of fun stuff. And from there the passion just just grew,

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Speaker 1: and it didn't take long to to dive in fully

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Speaker 1: and catch the sickness, as they say. So it's it's

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Speaker 1: been fun. It's been a good ride. It's it's one

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Speaker 1: of those things that you wake up every day and

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Speaker 1: you get to do what you love to do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can't complain about that. You know, I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of respect for for you guys, because

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Speaker 1: every day you wake up and you go to work

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Speaker 1: and you're involved in really mitigating conflict almost in some way.

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Speaker 1: I mean like and that's maybe the wrong way to

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Speaker 1: say it, but just in terms of your fighting, you're

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Speaker 1: fighting for the rights of sportsman's sportsman in uh, and

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Speaker 1: that sometimes, uh, it seems stressful to me. Oh, it's

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Speaker 1: very stressful. You know, I didn't have any gray hairs

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Speaker 1: five years ago, but look at me now now I've

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Speaker 1: been great for a long time. But it is stressful

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Speaker 1: because it's doing what we do. We see so many

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Speaker 1: different issues that are going on out there, you know,

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Speaker 1: in all the different states, you know, and and and

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Speaker 1: hunters in general. You know, we're kind of we're kind

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Speaker 1: of isolated, right. We just want to go on and

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Speaker 1: go out and hunt or duck hunt or do our thing.

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Speaker 1: We don't really like to think about all the problems

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Speaker 1: that we have facing our community. And you know, so

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Speaker 1: whether it's you know, attacks on on bear hunting and Maine,

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Speaker 1: or whether it's mountain lions you know, in one of

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Speaker 1: the western states. You know, how do you you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're the deer hunter in the Midwest, you know,

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Speaker 1: why do you why do you care about that? Why

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Speaker 1: does that even matter? Right, I'm not gonna go bear hunting.

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Speaker 1: I don't really care. That's not my battle to fight. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is, because you know, the strategies that have been

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Speaker 1: used over the years by you know, the animal rights groups. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a death by a thousand cuts type strategy, right.

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Speaker 1: They just slice away a little bit by a little bit, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, as you said, kind of going after the

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Speaker 1: low hanging fruit types of things. You know, the maybe

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Speaker 1: the fringe things. Maybe they're not going after deer hunting today.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're just going after hunting with hounds or or

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Speaker 1: hunting over bait or something like that. Um, but those

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Speaker 1: are the slices, Those are the things they just like

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Speaker 1: to whittle away at little by little and eventually you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's an attack on hunting, right, It's not an

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Speaker 1: attack on hunting with hounds. It's we need to look

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Speaker 1: at it as hey, this is an attack against us,

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Speaker 1: against our community, um and and the repercussions of that too.

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Speaker 1: You know, what's what it's going to do for conservation

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Speaker 1: funding down the road? His licenses continue to drop as

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Speaker 1: seasons get taken away or opportunities been taken away. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's these things don't happen in a vacuum, and they've

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Speaker 1: got long term consequences, not only for hunting, but just

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Speaker 1: for wildlife conservation in general. Yeah, what I've what I

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Speaker 1: feel like is that in this idea in my mind

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Speaker 1: is just starting to formulate because I would have traditionally,

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Speaker 1: before I was an outdoor media was a past and hunter,

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Speaker 1: and these things didn't matter to me. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: just like they're they're not gonna take away bear hunt

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Speaker 1: in Arkansas. We're not a referendum state. You know that

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Speaker 1: this just this just didn't gonna happen to us. I

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Speaker 1: mean that's the mentality of pretty much everybody. And and

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Speaker 1: let me take it. Let me take you out of

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Speaker 1: Arkansas and then put you into Michigan. I've done some

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Speaker 1: work with Michigan bear hunters yeah, Michigan Bear Hunters Association

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Speaker 1: and in the Upper Up Houndsman Association. And when I

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Speaker 1: was with those guys, I was making a film for him,

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Speaker 1: and I recognize something inside of their the hunting culture,

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Speaker 1: inside the way they dealt with their kids, inside the

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Speaker 1: way that they talked, inside the way that they thought,

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Speaker 1: is that they have built into the hunting culture, the

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Speaker 1: hound hunting culture specifically, there this idea that to be

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Speaker 1: a hound hunter, to be a bear hunter, is to

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Speaker 1: fight for our rights to continue to do this and

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Speaker 1: to clean up our own act. I mean like that

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Speaker 1: that's in bedded in that culture. And I look back

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Speaker 1: in Arkansas and and to be a hunter doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that you're a you're a defender. And maybe that's the

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Speaker 1: phrase I'll use. What we what we've got to do

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Speaker 1: is figure out a way to embed in the broader

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Speaker 1: hunting culture this idea, and it's happening. But to be

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Speaker 1: a hunter today in twenty nineteen means that you're also

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Speaker 1: a defender of what we're doing. And so to me,

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Speaker 1: the action steps of that are. You know, number one,

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Speaker 1: we can't be pharisees. We can't say one thing and

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Speaker 1: do another. We can't talk about ethical hunting and preservation

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Speaker 1: and resource and conservation and utilization of wildlife resources. We

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Speaker 1: can't preach all this good stuff and then not do

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Speaker 1: it when nobody's watching, you know. And but so there's

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Speaker 1: this personal aspect to me of we've got to be

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Speaker 1: what we say we are, you know. But then but

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Speaker 1: then we also have to take action step like and

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Speaker 1: one of the main ways people can do it is

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Speaker 1: like becoming a member of organizations that need our money

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Speaker 1: to go and fight all these things in different states

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Speaker 1: that will never touch I may never go to Maine

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Speaker 1: and stand before a crowd of people and give a

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Speaker 1: speech on why bear hunting matters. But your organization is,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have your your methods of influencing all

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Speaker 1: these different pieces across the country. And uh, and so

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Speaker 1: I guess that's what I'm getting at is it's almost

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Speaker 1: like we need to have this thing inside of all

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Speaker 1: of us, almost like a tax on hunters. You need

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Speaker 1: to be a member of three or four organizations every

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Speaker 1: year that you're devoted to, dedicated to and and there's

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Speaker 1: still this mass of people that just don't do that.

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Speaker 1: I like to tell people, I think you should be

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Speaker 1: you should be a member of at least three groups. Right,

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Speaker 1: protect your method, protect your pursuit, and protect your passion.

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Speaker 1: If you're a bow hunter, find a bow hunting group

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Speaker 1: that you know is working in the in the in

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Speaker 1: that realm. Right. If you're pursuing jackalopes, you know, join

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Speaker 1: the National Jackalope Association, and then you know, protect your passion. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just saw a new world record here the other day.

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Speaker 1: But protect your passion. That's kind of one of the

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Speaker 1: slogans that we use, you know, because because our passion

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Speaker 1: is hunting in the end. Again, what you said three things,

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Speaker 1: Protect your method, protect your pursuit, and protect your passion.

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Speaker 1: And protect your passion. That's joined the Sportsman's Alliance. It's

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Speaker 1: when you buy your hunting license. That's when you were

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Speaker 1: new your membership almost ingrained that in like every year, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get my license, I gotta get my dear tag.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy my Federal duck stamp. You know, I

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Speaker 1: need to get my bear tag. I need to get

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Speaker 1: my Sportsman's Lilliance membership too. You need to get all

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Speaker 1: those things because if we're not protecting those things, they're

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Speaker 1: not going to be there, you know, right down the road.

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Speaker 1: It's so it's such a you know, in today's world,

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Speaker 1: there's so many there's so many things that are reaching

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Speaker 1: out to grab our dollars a year. And I mean

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Speaker 1: what we've what we've got to do is as hunters

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Speaker 1: is just see where the mandatory. I mean, this isn't

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Speaker 1: a frivolous thing. This is a serious thing. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I mean to me, that's where the differentiation is. Like

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Speaker 1: people are automatically turned off. I know this because I'm

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Speaker 1: in the business of selling twenty five subscriptions to the magazine.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's super difficult. It's hard. I mean

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Speaker 1: even people that want to get a subscription Barrity magazine

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Speaker 1: that pick it up and go, man, this is awesome.

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Speaker 1: This is good quality content. This is a thick paper,

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Speaker 1: high glass magazine. I'd love to be a member or

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Speaker 1: a subscriber. And they don't do it, you know. I

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Speaker 1: mean so, and it's it's you know, I think the

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Speaker 1: thing is is as we continue to just spread the word, eventually,

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Speaker 1: like my kids, like they're gonna know, you know, like

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Speaker 1: the Michigan kids that I saw. To be a hunter

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Speaker 1: is to be a defender and and to be a

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Speaker 1: defender means you take action steps to do stuff and

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Speaker 1: prioritize these things inside of your life. You know. But

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Speaker 1: and that's it. It takes time to change that, that culture,

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Speaker 1: that thought process. Um, But you're right on. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the days of just you know, buying our licenses being

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Speaker 1: enough are long gone. You know, they passed us years ago.

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Speaker 1: We have got to do more and hunters collectively have

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Speaker 1: always stepped up and done that. Um. But we can't

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Speaker 1: wait until there's an immediate threat. We've got we've got

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Speaker 1: to be way more proactive because we see immediate threats

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Speaker 1: all the time. You know, Evan and his team on

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Speaker 1: the government fair side, and they're monitoring legislation and bills,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we're seeing things that most people aren't seeing.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes a lot of times those threats will just

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Speaker 1: they go away or they don't get into produced. But

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Speaker 1: they're always out there. I mean, the groups that that

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Speaker 1: we continually go up against, I mean, they exist to

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Speaker 1: take away hunting. You know, That's what's one of their

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Speaker 1: main goals. You know, they do other things as well too,

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Speaker 1: but you know, one of their main goals. These these people,

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Speaker 1: these folks exist and their passion that's what they wake

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Speaker 1: up in the morning thinking about is because yeah, they

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Speaker 1: think hunting is bad or evil or what have you.

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Speaker 1: They have a different ideology and these things, and they

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Speaker 1: want to see it SOPs. And they're just as passionate

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Speaker 1: about doing that as we are about hunting and about

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Speaker 1: getting out into the outdoors. So we have to kind

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Speaker 1: of look at it that way and understand it that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've got to we've got to match that,

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Speaker 1: we've got to exceed it because you know, these guys

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Speaker 1: they have deep, deep pockets and they're so well funded

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Speaker 1: and uh well, you know, when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: they are they have such a broader pool of resource

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Speaker 1: then we do. I mean, where the ten of the

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Speaker 1: country or or less less? Is it less? How many?

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Speaker 1: How many hunters? What's the percentage of us people that

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Speaker 1: are licensed by hunters? Is population? What? What? What? Where?

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Speaker 1: Was I get in ten percent? Is that an old numbers?

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Speaker 1: It could be you know, if you add in you know,

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Speaker 1: fishing and trapping and some of the other different things

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Speaker 1: that you know, it increases that. And I think if

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Speaker 1: you look at the way that that that they pull

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Speaker 1: those numbers, it's it's largely based on licensed buyers doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily equate to hunters. Right, There's there's a natural churn

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Speaker 1: in the in the hunting licensed buyer data that shows that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the average guy doesn't hunt every single year.

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Speaker 1: He might hunt, you know, two out of five years

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Speaker 1: or three out of five years. And so there's there's

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Speaker 1: a people out there, maybe of people have bought licenses

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Speaker 1: in the last ten years. Yeah, I think if you

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Speaker 1: said the ten percent of people probably consider themselves hunters,

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Speaker 1: ten percent aren't buying licenses, you know. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I think the latest numbers from from Fishing Wildlife Service

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Speaker 1: and those folks are it's like eleven and a half

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Speaker 1: twelve million hunters annually right now. So so what we're

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Speaker 1: trying to do is rally this ten let's just say

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Speaker 1: ten percent consider themselves hunters. We're trying to rally this

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Speaker 1: ten percent two fight against people that basically have a

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Speaker 1: lot easier sell to the ncent. Correct me if I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of just thinking out loud here, But it's like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a pretty easy sell to tell somebody

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Speaker 1: with no rural background, no hunting background, lives in an

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Speaker 1: urban place, to tell them, hey, it's bad that these

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Speaker 1: rednecks are out there tree and bears with dogs and

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Speaker 1: killing them. I mean, that is an easy sell. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think what you look at you if you

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Speaker 1: want to visualize in your mind, you're you're talking about

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Speaker 1: their You know, we're the ten percent on them on

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Speaker 1: the left side, and there's ten percent on the right

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Speaker 1: side that's vehement animal rights, anti hunting group. There's eighty

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Speaker 1: percent of us that are in the middle the country

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Speaker 1: who are just they're not animal rights out They could

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Speaker 1: go either way. Soccer moms, they're they're they're they're guys,

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Speaker 1: they're blue collar guys going to work, but they're not hunters.

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Speaker 1: Those folks are are susceptible to the emotional messaging that

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Speaker 1: the other side puts out. You know, they put out

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Speaker 1: these these these videos, they put out these um TV commercials,

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Speaker 1: and especially when you get into one of these ballad

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Speaker 1: in misives like you mentioned earlier. You know, they put

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Speaker 1: out very, very emotional content that that strikes at the

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Speaker 1: heart of the person who doesn't have a connection to hunting,

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily have connection to to to even rural life

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Speaker 1: or agriculture where your food comes from. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're showing them these videos that

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Speaker 1: to the average person might be shocking, or they're being

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Speaker 1: told they're shocking, right, you know, the other sides tell

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Speaker 1: them this is the most context. Yeah, absolutely, And so

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Speaker 1: it's you know, you get back to the us the question, Earli,

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Speaker 1: if it's a stressful job, if it's if it's a

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Speaker 1: challenging job, it is because we have to win every time, right,

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Speaker 1: we have to win ten times out of ten just

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Speaker 1: to keep what we have. The other side wins one

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Speaker 1: out of ten of the issues they push. They're moving

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Speaker 1: the ball down the field every single year. They're cutting

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Speaker 1: way at the edges, and so you look at things

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Speaker 1: like like Sean mentioned earlier, deer hunting deer hunks is

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Speaker 1: not going away in but bear hunting with hounds could

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Speaker 1: be maybe trapping maybe some of these other perceived fringe

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Speaker 1: activities that that the the animal rights groups like to

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Speaker 1: point to as the most cruel and inhumane methods, the

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Speaker 1: most cruel inhumane ways of of hunting animals. Those are

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Speaker 1: the things that are truly at the forefront of the

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Speaker 1: threats today. And so so that's why we've got to

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Speaker 1: be on our a game. I mean, that's that's what

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Speaker 1: that's what we're saying with the broader hunting community. Well,

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Speaker 1: and you see it, you hit the nail on the head, right.

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Speaker 1: Michigan Bear Hunters are a great example of this. Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: Bear Hunters are a great example of this. You've got

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Speaker 1: these fine organizations out there who have instilled a culture

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Speaker 1: and a belief in their membership that this is the

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Speaker 1: right thing to do. We have to be the activists.

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Speaker 1: We have to be the guys who aren't just content

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Speaker 1: to go out and do our own thing, to run

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Speaker 1: our dogs, to climb in our tree stands, you know,

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Speaker 1: to go run our trap lines wherever we're gonna do.

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Speaker 1: We can't just do that. We've got to do this

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Speaker 1: other side first to ensure that that's all there. And

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Speaker 1: those groups have done a fantastic job. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: there there's there's there's a lack of that in the

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Speaker 1: number of states, right. You lack that same passion in

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Speaker 1: other states. And it's it's interesting to be an interesting

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Speaker 1: case day to figure out how the heck did it

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Speaker 1: end up that Michigan and in Wisconsin and some of

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Speaker 1: these other states have these great strong Well, I think

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Speaker 1: it's because they've had to fight, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like in art, like I said what I said in Arkansas,

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Speaker 1: it is quite true we're not a referendum state. And

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Speaker 1: and by that you guys would know much more about

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Speaker 1: that than me. But my understanding of a referendum state.

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Speaker 1: In Michigan, they can put anything on the ballot. Basically

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Speaker 1: that they can that the populace can get enough signatures

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Speaker 1: to say so, So all the people in Detroit, all

397
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Speaker 1: the urban people in Detroit, can say we don't like

398
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Speaker 1: bare hunt with hounds. We're gonna get a hundred thousand

399
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Speaker 1: signatures that says, let's put banning hound hunting on a ballot.

400
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Speaker 1: And so they can do that in in the and

401
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Speaker 1: the general public is to vote them. It's just up

402
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Speaker 1: and that's what type of government is that? What? What

403
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Speaker 1: type of state is that? What would that be called?

404
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Speaker 1: But it gives you, gives the people the opportunity to

405
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Speaker 1: petition the government. But because like in Arkansas, the our

406
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Speaker 1: our wildlife regulations are not run by referendum, I was

407
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Speaker 1: thinking maybe there was a there there are similarities, especially

408
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Speaker 1: in every state is a little bit different, right, so

409
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Speaker 1: where this is a really hard conversation to happen, But

410
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Speaker 1: broadly I thought it was like black. I mean, it isn't.

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Speaker 1: It isn't right. So, like Michigan is a little bit

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Speaker 1: different than than some states. Um, they have some ability

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Speaker 1: to to shield things from referendums or from the initiatives.

414
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Speaker 1: You know, in a lot of states. Look you look

415
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Speaker 1: at decisions made by like the Wildlife Resource Agency or

416
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Speaker 1: the commissions. Um, those are not subject to referendum. Where

417
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Speaker 1: a decision by the legislare like like a decision about

418
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Speaker 1: how many bears to take out of the regulations made

419
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Speaker 1: by the age versus passed by the legislatures. The legislature says, hey,

420
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Speaker 1: the bear hunting seas, we're gonna allow bear hunting with hounds. Well,

421
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Speaker 1: the agency then comes in and writes rules and regulations

422
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Speaker 1: and puts the uh specifics details. So when this season

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Speaker 1: is how many bears can be taken, what unit is open,

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Speaker 1: what units are closed, those kinds of things, Those types

425
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Speaker 1: of decisions typically aren't subject to referendum. But you know,

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Speaker 1: back to the broader point of the of the referendum

427
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 1: states or ballot issue states versus none. I mean, that's

428
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 1: where you saw these attacks in two thousand fourteen in Maine,

429
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: in Michigan, is the referendum state. Absolutely. And the scary

430
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 1: thing about this is that it's not that expensive to

431
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: get an issue qualified. To talk about these groups that

432
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 1: have hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank waiting

433
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: for their opportunity. You know, in Maine it was a

434
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: hundred thousand, hundred fifty thousand dollars. You can pay signature

435
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: gatherers to qualify an issue. Now, Mains made some changes

436
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: in recent years since the last ballot issue. We fought

437
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: up there to make those a little bit tougher. H

438
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: we wanted two thousand four and it's been fought twice

439
00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 1: um and we were outspending that campaign we want going away.

440
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: We won ten by ten, we were fifty six forty four. Yeah.

441
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: To me, from from my side of it, knowing a

442
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 1: lot of outfitters in Maine and dealing with these people,

443
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: to me, it just seems like David versus Goliath. I mean,

444
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: because these guys are just scratching a living, living their passion.

445
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: These bear hunting, I mean typically hunters aren't the wealthy guys.

446
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: If you if you talk to the guides up there,

447
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: we broke them pretty good on that campaign. I mean,

448
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: those guys gave everything they had and it took a

449
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: year and a half of grassroots fundraising to to get

450
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: there where you look at. You know, that campaign on

451
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: the other side was being led by the Humane Society

452
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: the United States of a multi hundred million dollar organization.

453
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: They got a hundred fifty two llion dollar annual budget,

454
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: and so they were writing checks from Washington, D C.

455
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: And sending them up to Maine at a hundred thousand here,

456
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: two hundred fifty thousand there, five hundred thousand there. Out

457
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: of the out of the two point seven million dollars

458
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: that that animal rights campaign raised, two point six million

459
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: came directly from HSUS in Washington, D C. So you're

460
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 1: saying a hundred thousand of it was actually raised somehow

461
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: in state by people who cared in state and from

462
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: other organizations that what you're saying is that the people

463
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: of Maine really don't care about that. No, it wasn't

464
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 1: a big issue for the locals, it was. It was

465
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: brought in from the outsiders. Um consequent are inversely, the

466
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: pro bear hunting campaign that we helped run up there,

467
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: we raised about two point three million dollars, you know,

468
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: so we were outspent by nearly half million dollars on television,

469
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: which is which is an incredibly influential way to change

470
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: the way that the soccer moms in Portland are going

471
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: to view those issues, um. And that two points well,

472
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: they do a lot of stuff up there, um. But

473
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: to raise that two point three million dollars, it took

474
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: a year and a half of backbreaking work by the guys,

475
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: by the by the sportsmen in the state, by people

476
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: out of the state. You know, there were there were

477
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: a lot of bear hunting. From what I saw, it

478
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: was almost like these guys were having like bake sales.

479
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: I mean, like we did a thing with Bear Hunting

480
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: Magazine where an outfitter called and wanted an ad to

481
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: raffle off a hunt. I mean, it was like it

482
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: was like grassroots. That's how you have to structure because

483
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: you're you're you're not gonna get there. There's nobody in

484
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: our community. You're gonna come in and write a five

485
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: dollar check. So you're getting there at fifty dollars. Here

486
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: you might get a couple of five thousand dollar contribute.

487
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it truly is grassroots. And it wasn't

488
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: just it wasn't just manners that helped on this thing.

489
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: You got guys from Vermont, Vermont, Vermont bear guys, you

490
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: know guys you know, Michigan Bear Hunters contributed some money. Yeah,

491
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: community really stepped in it and helped with that campaign,

492
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: because that's what we were talking about earlier. You know,

493
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,719
Speaker 1: those organizations they've got it in greened in their culture.

494
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 1: That an attack on bear hunting in Maine, that's an

495
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: attack on bear hunting in our state as well too.

496
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: So it pulled everybody together, and that's that's what we

497
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: have to do to continue to fight and win those things. Yeah,

498
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: you know, this maybe jumping a little bit outside, but

499
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: just this thought that I had somebody tell me when

500
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: I first got involved Barony Magazine that he said, any

501
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: legal method of hunting in this day and age is

502
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: something that people need to support, you know. And and

503
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: going back to this concept, and I think it's the

504
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: biggest thing that we fight is that these fringe things

505
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: they're fringe because not a lot of people are involved

506
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: in less numbers of people are involved, and people are

507
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: so focused on just what they're interested in. And so

508
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: this idea that that we've we've got to well I've

509
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: lost my train of thought. We we've got a just

510
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 1: we've we've got in ingraining to people that it's bigger

511
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: than just what they're doing. Yeah, it's it's hunters in general.

512
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: I'm just painting with a broad brush here, Right, we're

513
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: all kind of selfish. Yeah, I mean, I want my

514
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: time out there, you know, I want to go do

515
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: my own thing. And that's fine, that's important, but we

516
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: also have to get beyond that and start thinking beyond

517
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: ourselves and start looking at the real big picture of

518
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: what's going on out there. Yeah, and that's that's a

519
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: hard thing to do, and that's something that you know,

520
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: it's gonna take time. It's gonna take you know, talking

521
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: to folks and and and growing the grassroots to to

522
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: to change that. But if anything, I mean, the bear

523
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,239
Speaker 1: hunting community should be the first ones to wake up

524
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: to this, right because of the number of threats we've seen,

525
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: the number of direct attacks we've seen. You know, you

526
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: go back, you look at just the last decade, right,

527
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: forget the two thousand four ballot initiatives and that kind

528
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: of thing. You know, you lost bear hunting with hounds

529
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: in California in two thousand and eleven or twelve, um.

530
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: You know, you you had the attacks in Maine, in

531
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: Michigan and fourteen, you've seen you've seen the bear season

532
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: in Florida be attacked. You've seen the bear season in

533
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: Kentucky be attacked. And now just recently here you had

534
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: the governor of New Jersey shut down all public land

535
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: bear hunting, you know. And so you look at these things,

536
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: and if you're a hunter in other states who may

537
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: or may not hunt bears, may or may not care

538
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: about hunting bears or even running dogs, well look at

539
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: the precedent of what's being done here. You've got you've

540
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: got animal rights groups coming into these ballot issue states,

541
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: dropping millions of dollars to influence an election, to try

542
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: to push their agenda. That's not that's not just subject

543
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: to bear hunting. That could be anything, that could be

544
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: any subject. So once bear hunting is done, then then's

545
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: next what's trapping? Is it? Is it? Who knows what

546
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: it is? Right? It could be it could be baiting,

547
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: it could be it could be anything. And then you

548
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: look at the governor New Jersey doing this kind of thing.

549
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: You've got a politician making promises to animal rights groups.

550
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: That he's gonna shut down the hunt. Again, that's something

551
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: that can transfer easily to other states. I could see

552
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: that happening in California. You can see it happening in

553
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: a number of states. So these threats are there. They

554
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: might not be in your passion right now, they might

555
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: be outside your passion. And maybe for your listenership it's

556
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: that they understand because it is bear hunting, right. But

557
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: for the average sportsman, that's that's the greatest struggles is

558
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: how do you get a guy in in you know,

559
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: a duck hunter in in California to care about a

560
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: bear hunting issue in New Jersey. That's the challenge. Yeah, well,

561
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: that is the challenge. Um, you guys, give us some

562
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: like concrete and you we've kind of alluded to it,

563
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: But give us some concrete examples of stuff that you

564
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: guys have been involved in. I heard you say one

565
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,959
Speaker 1: time that you that you Sportsman's Alliance wins a certain

566
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: percentage of things that they get involved in. This kind

567
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: of give give just a rundown of like stuff that

568
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: you guys are actually doing. Yeah, that and that that

569
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: stat of that number, you know, we win of the

570
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: issues that we get involved in. Okay, but we have

571
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: to pick and choose often what issues we get involved

572
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: in because it's funding, right, we don't have unlimited You're

573
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: not gonna waste You're not gonna waste your time on

574
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: something that you can't win. And I mean that we

575
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: have to be we have to be involved in in

576
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: I won't say the most important things, you know, because

577
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: they're all. It is kind of triage, isn't it. It

578
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: is right, you know. So you know this last year

579
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: for example, right, you know New Jersey black Bears. You know,

580
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: we're involved with that, um Yellowstone grizzly bearsy listing. That's

581
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: that's a big one. We're involved with that. You know,

582
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: the the those are the big, big issues that we

583
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: jump into. And as a consequence, it takes a lot

584
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: of funding to get involved in those things, especially when

585
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: you're talking about fighting things, um through the court system,

586
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: which is a whole other, whole other area. You know,

587
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: we've been involved in uh, you know, Western Great Lakes

588
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: Wolves for for twelve years now in and out of

589
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: the courts, you know, you know, organization has spent over

590
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: three quarters of a million dollars, you know fighting that case,

591
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: and and we still have wolves you know, in in

592
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: in those states that are not delisted, you know, and

593
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: so Grizzly Bears is going to be a similar situation

594
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: that's gonna take years and years of in and out

595
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: of the courts. You know, the science is there in

596
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: the US Fish and Wildlife Service themselves are the ones

597
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: who recommended delisting. Let's turn note back over to the states,

598
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: and the states can put them in their management plan.

599
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: That's how we manage wildlife here in North right, um.

600
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: But the other side doesn't see it that way. So

601
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: they use the court system to tie those things up,

602
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: to delay to listings, UM. And they use it oftentimes

603
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: as fundraising mechanisms. I mean the social media sites of

604
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: of a lot of those groups that we encounter, you know,

605
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: as soon as that um that delisting was you know,

606
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: recommended in you know, we're checking their sites and seeing

607
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: what they're doing. They're fundraising, I mean they're and they're

608
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: fundraising machines and and they're targeting you know, that that

609
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: general public, and they're using a lot of the emotionally

610
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: you know, strong imagery, you know, and a lot of

611
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: misinformation to to get people to to donate. You know,

612
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: that ten dollars a month to help you know this,

613
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: that or the other thing. You know, so it's yeah,

614
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: there's there's no shortage of those types of issues. Let

615
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,479
Speaker 1: me ask you a question that is a personal question

616
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: that uh that uh kind of wrestle with some not

617
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: sometimes all the time. What what does the outdoor media

618
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: like got people like me, YouTube channel, bear hunting, magazine,

619
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: social media stuff. What what do we need to be

620
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: doing to further this cause? And let me give you

621
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: a little context for this. I sometimes I run into

622
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: people bear hunters specifically that I can tell they think

623
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: that I should almost just like shut up about promoting

624
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: bear hunting. Almost like Clay, You're you're going on a

625
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: hound hunt and showing the world that we chase bears

626
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: with hounds. Maybe be better if you just didn't even

627
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: do that, Like like isolationists, basically we've been okay for

628
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: all these years. Don't don't tell anybody what we're doing,

629
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: and we'll just be able to preserve what we've got

630
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: the And you know, I think about that. I mean,

631
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in the this is my business, so

632
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: I have some incentive. I mean, I'm just being honest.

633
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: I have incentive to feed my family, to promote bear

634
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: hunt insured and I think about, what is this the

635
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: best thing? And and obviously I've I've worked through this

636
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: and I have a I have a I have a

637
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: thought on it. Yeah, but but what do you guys

638
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: see in the broader outdoor media, like, because I don't

639
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: know what do we need to be doing well for

640
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: those types of examples, right? You know, we need we

641
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: need to tell our story. We need to tell the

642
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: benefits of of why we hunt with hounds. You know,

643
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: we hunt with hounds because well it's it's fair chase. Um,

644
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: we can make ethical decisions on whether to shoot or

645
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: not to shoot that bear or that cat or whatever

646
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: it gets treated. Um, we need to tell that story,

647
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: and we need to do it, you know, in the

648
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: positive light that that needs to be told. That way

649
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: the general public, you know, can see those types of

650
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: things and they can have a better understanding about it.

651
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: Because if we're not telling our story, well, the other

652
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: side is gonna tell us and how they want that

653
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: narrative to be written. So we have to control our messaging.

654
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: And you guys do a fantastic job of that. So

655
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: we need to we need to keep raising that bar.

656
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: We need to raise our expectations, and we need to

657
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: talk about all the positive attributes of why we hunt

658
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: and how we hunt and why we do what we do.

659
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: You know, it's not about squeezing the trigger. I mean,

660
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: that's that's a fraction of a thousand of a second

661
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: of the time that we spend preparing and planning and

662
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: and doing all the things that are involved with hunting.

663
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: We've got the food aspects, which is just how do

664
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: you not talk about the food aspect of what we do?

665
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: What we do? I mean, there's so many different positive

666
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: attitude or avenues to kind of go down with with that. Um,

667
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: that's what we have to do. That's we have to

668
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: continue doing. And the industry has been doing a good

669
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: job you know over the last several years of kind

670
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: of raising that bar. We have to keep doing that.

671
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: We have to keep challenging ourselves to get better with

672
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: those types of things and to all those stories. Yeah. Yeah,

673
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: and that's that's what I've I mean, that's the same

674
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: thing that I've come to on a personal And it

675
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: might sound funny that I would think about that considering

676
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: what I do, but you know, if if we don't

677
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: tell the story, somebody else is and even inside of

678
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: Like I feel like what we do at Barony Magazine,

679
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 1: we're showing the fringe hunting. I mean, we're showing hunting

680
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: over bait. We're showing hunting with hounds. And uh, I

681
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: would rather that story come from an organization like ours

682
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: than to come from somewhere else, And not that somebody

683
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: else couldn't tell that same story. That's not what I'm saying,

684
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: But just like we're we're taking we're interpreting this for people, like, yeah,

685
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: we hunt over bait, but it's not as easy as

686
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: you think. It's harder or it's you know, it's it's

687
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: a challenge, it's a it's a selection tool. We can

688
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: be very selective and how we hunt. It's you know,

689
00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: we're just telling the story and and that's that has value.

690
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: You go it out about it? Yeah yeah, yeah, but

691
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 1: let's see where else were we gonna go get anything

692
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: you guys can think of that you'd like to say

693
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: to our to our audience. Do you have for folks

694
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: that want more information on kind of the who we

695
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: are and what we do? Um? You know the website

696
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: is Sportsman's Alliance dot org. You know they can jump there. Um,

697
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: the front page of our website you know, always has

698
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: you know, the current issues that we're kind of working on,

699
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: what things are going on out there. Um, you know,

700
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: we we try to stay you know, meet and potatoes.

701
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: You know, we we give you the issues. We try

702
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: to give you the information so that folks can see

703
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: what's going on out there. And then you know, from

704
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: from the membership side of things, from the engagement side

705
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: of things. We were talking about hunting licensed numbers earlier

706
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: and you know, the latest data was around eleven and

707
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: a half million licensed buying hunters. You know, if we

708
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: just had one of those folks becoming members, that's that's

709
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: a game changer for our organization, right, just one if

710
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: one percent of of hunters became members of the Sportsman's Lanes.

711
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: And that's such a small number one percent, it seems

712
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: like you could recruit. Yeah, yep, it is a challenge,

713
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: but we'll get there, right And it's and it's from

714
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: having these conversations. It's from from from partnering with you

715
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: guys and and helping spread the word on on who

716
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: we are and what we do. Because you know, as

717
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, we've been around for over forty

718
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: years now, um, but we've been a kind of a smaller,

719
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: behind the scenes organization. You know, we focus strictly on

720
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: the issues. We don't have giant marketing budgets to to,

721
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: you know, to grow the organization. We do everything, you know,

722
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: from the grassroots level. And that's that's who we are

723
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: and that's our culture. We put our funding towards the

724
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 1: mission because because we care about winning these issues. So yeah,

725
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: we'll get there. And uh, it's it's doing things like

726
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: this that help us get that one percent of people. Man,

727
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: you guys, you guys are on the front lines. And

728
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: and we all talk about conservation and talk about I mean,

729
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: I do fighting for our rights for hunting, but you

730
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: guys are the ones that are actually doing it. I mean,

731
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: you're you're you're you're on the front lines. That's the

732
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: way I view you, I mean, And and what I

733
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: want to do is just give some or continue to

734
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: talk about and every all the media that we're doing

735
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: is the concrete ways that people can go from just

736
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: talking about preserving hunting to action steps to doing it,

737
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: because there's got to be this leap and uh, and

738
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: I think that first step is joining sportsman's lines and

739
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: joining the other and there's plenty of other good organizations

740
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: that are doing specific stuff, and we just gotta graph

741
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: that into our brain that these are things that we

742
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: prioritize every year and that we do. It's automatic, automatic,

743
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: automatic renewal. That's what we've got it. So when they check,

744
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: that's it. So when they sign up and join, just

745
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: check that box renew automatically, I mean that. And that

746
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: also helps us put more money towards the mission, right

747
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: because we don't have those administrative costs of print natural

748
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: renewal letter and sending that out too. So even those

749
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,479
Speaker 1: little things that all adds up, it does it does

750
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: evan any closing thoughts, No, I might I think you've

751
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: encapsulated pretty well. I think you know, if you're looking

752
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: to try to convince the bear hunter in Arkansas, who

753
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: isn't under threat of referendum or or a ballot initiative,

754
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: why he should care. Maybe even the deer hunter in Alabama, right,

755
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: I mean, whoever the audience is. These things spread, They

756
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: spread like wildfire. They spread quickly. You know, we we

757
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: saw how it spread from you know, you're talking about

758
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: how we got to Maine in Michigan. In well, it

759
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: started with California, but California. The losing bear hunting with

760
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: hounds didn't start in California started in Idaho, right. They

761
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: had a wildlife commissioner who went up to Idaho and

762
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: took a mountain lion using dogs and most the pictures

763
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,919
Speaker 1: of it uh and that led the legislature to get

764
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 1: it all fired up about this guy, and and and

765
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: and along. The short version of the story is that

766
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: they wanted the wildlife commissioner to resign and he wouldn't

767
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: do it. He's taking a legal mountain line in another state. Ye, absolutely,

768
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: but that was that didn't fit their values or cultures

769
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: in California, supposedly. And so from there the legislature set

770
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 1: their sights on bear hunting with dogs and that went down.

771
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 1: And then two years later we're in Maine in Michigan

772
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: with ballot issues. So you know, these things can spread quickly.

773
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: We've got to police ourselves, like you said, We've gotta

774
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: we've got to we've got to support the good organizations

775
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: in this country, like you mentioned in Maine in Michigan,

776
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: those two organizations are fantastic and there's dozens of other

777
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: ones too. And it wasn't just bear hunting organizations that

778
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: helped in those states trappers did, just hound hunters, cat hunters, um,

779
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: all the other sports organs, bow hunters. So you know,

780
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: these things spread quickly, they can get out of control quickly,

781
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: and it's a resource war that we're we're never gonna win.

782
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 1: You're looking at the top five of animal rights groups

783
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: have an eight hundred thirty million dollars on the books

784
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: sitting around. That's just the top five. Take the top

785
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: that they told the government about. Yeah, exactly. So it's

786
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: one of those things that you know, it's you've got

787
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: to be involved. You've got to be an activist. Nobody

788
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: else is gonna do this for you. Nobody else can

789
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: protect our way of life. You know, we we have this,

790
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,919
Speaker 1: we have this mentality that probably in our lifetime it'll

791
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: be okay. I did an interview with a guynamed Joe Hudson,

792
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: a houndsman up in the up Michigan, and and he

793
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: and he said something really good is He said, um,

794
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: he said, you know bear hunting and my and he's

795
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: like almost seventy Joe is and he said, bear hunting

796
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: will probably not be taken away in my lifetime. But

797
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: I've got to see beyond that. And he was just

798
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: casting this whole idea that we've got to see the

799
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: bigger picture, because the truth is maybe for some people,

800
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: I mean, the threat isn't like for in some places

801
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,919
Speaker 1: it is. But I mean, man, the threat is for

802
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: twenty five years from now, we're like Europe and we

803
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: can hunt pen raised game birds with our dogs. And

804
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: that's all I mean. Like so, and it's such a

805
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 1: trap as a human to be encapsulated in the moment.

806
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's it's such a trap because

807
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: pretty soon it's gonna be twenty five years from now. Well,

808
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't take that long. It doesn't take It doesn't

809
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: take generations to lose these things. You can lose them

810
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, exactly. And and and the pace of change

811
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: can accelerate very very quickly. So at the moment of

812
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: these things start dropping, we start losing those fringe gentlemans.

813
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: You're just whittling away at the edge, and it just

814
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: something else is fringe. All of a sudden, the next

815
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 1: thing is fringe. Bow hunting is fringe. Yeah, I mean,

816
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: that's the excuse me. That's the important thing to recognize here,

817
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: that it's not about bear hunting with bait. It's not

818
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: about bear hunting with hounds. It's not about bear hunting

819
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: at all. It's about hunting. It's about the idea that

820
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: these guys, these groups, these organizations, these activists, they don't

821
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: they don't approve of it at all. So they're gonna

822
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: tell you, yeah, we're only here to band bear hunting

823
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: with hounds because it's the most cruel and inhumane. It's

824
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 1: the most egregious way you could possibly ever think to

825
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: take an animal. Once they get that, it's well, you

826
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: know it's all bear hunting or it's all rifeleting. You know,

827
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: you can't shoot him with the bow because that's that's inhumane.

828
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 1: But you also can't shoot him at five hundred yards

829
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: with a gun because that's inhumane. You can't put them

830
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: in a tree at thirty yards away because that's inhumane.

831
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: You can't let little kids hunt because that's I mean,

832
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: never stops. You'll never find the bottom of that barrel.

833
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: There's always one more stuff, and that's you know, we

834
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: have to look at it. An attack on one of

835
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: us is an attack on all of us. You know

836
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: that's gonna be our mentality. Yeah, it doesn't matter if

837
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. If well, I'm a traditional archer and

838
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: guys using crossbows shouldnt archery hunt, who cares? Just get

839
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: out there any legal method. Just get out there and hunt.

840
00:44:58,040 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: An attack on one of us is an attack on

841
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: all of us. Yep, yep, that's right. Hey. I can't

842
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: thank you guys enough for meeting with me today. We're

843
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: great to meet with you guys, and uh, I've got

844
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: some ideas that we'll talk about that. I think maybe

845
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: we could get you guys involved a little bit more

846
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: with what we're doing. Um, but anyway, great, great to

847
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: meet you guys, and I just want to encourage everybody

848
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: to join the Sportsman's Alliance. Just just do it. Do it.

849
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: Know that your money is being used and in very

850
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: good ways. And uh, yeah, thank you Clay, We appreciate it.

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00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what we can come up

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00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: with you next year. Yeah man, Well, hey, thanks for

853
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 1: listening to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. Check out our

854
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: for the only print bear hunting magazine in the world,

855
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 1: only one. So we're a big fish and a little

856
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: beatty pond, So check out our print magazine. Check out

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00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel. We just released a just yesterday uh

858
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: ownbear hunting video from the Alaska Peninsula, which that's an

859
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: interesting conservation piece, but now it was a really neat video.

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00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: Check it out on YouTube, and hey, guys, keep the

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00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: wild places wild because that's where the bears live.