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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool be Booted Cool Stuff. You're

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Speaker 2: a weekly reminder that you too can live in the

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Speaker 2: swamps and kill slavers. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and

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Speaker 2: I guess this week you might have heard of her.

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Speaker 2: It's Sophie Lickterman. Hi, Sophie, how are you?

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Speaker 3: What if they haven't heard of me.

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Speaker 2: Well, then I have done a poor job of Or

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Speaker 2: maybe it's the first time you've listened to the show,

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. Yeah, well, in which case, Sophie

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Speaker 2: Licktterman is also the producer of this show. And the

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Speaker 2: reason that Sophie is the guest is because, as we

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Speaker 2: record this, Los Angeles is having a bit of a

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Speaker 2: fire problem, and some of that might have had to

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Speaker 2: deal with the defunding of the fire department to fund

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Speaker 2: the police. But unfortunately, you can't shoot fire. I'm willing

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Speaker 2: to bet that a lot of people have tried.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I'm so sure a lot of people have tried.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really I mean, I grew up in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with fire season. But you know, this

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Speaker 1: level of wind that La has experienced, it's just like

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Speaker 1: climate change. Is terrifying, and I'm so sorry to the

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Speaker 1: people that have lost loved ones in their and their homes.

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Speaker 1: We do have a list of mutual aid funds that

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Speaker 1: people can donate to, Margaret, do you want to read

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Speaker 1: those out?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, although I'll explain the reason that you're the guest

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Speaker 2: is that our guest lives in LA and is okay,

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Speaker 2: but is busy doing mutual aid, because that's the kind

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Speaker 2: of guests we have on But this list of mutual

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Speaker 2: aid venmos that people can donate to was vetted by

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Speaker 2: Kozon Media's James Stout for the Los Angeles fires of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five at People's Struggle. SFV Supplies and Distribution

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Speaker 2: for the San Fernando Valley at Sundays Dash thirteen twelve.

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Speaker 2: The you know one three one two. This is they

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Speaker 2: deliver supplies to encampments and things like that. K Town

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Speaker 2: for All K T O w N F O R

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Speaker 2: A l L does emergency supply distribution for the unhoused.

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Speaker 1: They're a wonderful mutual aid organization. I can't say enough

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Speaker 1: nice things about K Town for All.

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Speaker 2: Hell Yeah, J Town Action, J T O W N

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Speaker 2: A C T I O N. What you'd expect, well,

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Speaker 2: except that it's the letter J, not like J A

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Speaker 2: Y or something. J. Town Action does mutual aid to

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Speaker 2: unhoused folks in Little Tokyo. Eight and A Street Solidarity

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Speaker 2: a E T N A Street Solidarity does direct relief

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Speaker 2: for the unhoused in the San Fernando Valley. Dykes are kosher,

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Speaker 2: which is an important thing to know. But dikes R

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Speaker 2: kosher is d y k E s A R e

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Speaker 2: k O s h e R. I think we're also

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Speaker 2: going to put this in the show notes, but I'm

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Speaker 2: still going to read them out. And they do mostly

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Speaker 2: east side and skid row and they have three plus

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Speaker 2: drivers doing that work. F T s l A and

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Speaker 2: not there's a knockoff f T s l A dash.

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Speaker 2: That's not who you're looking for. Ft s l A

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Speaker 2: makes meals for firefighters. All Power Books a l l

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Speaker 2: PO w R Books is community bookstore that distributes supplies.

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Speaker 2: And Seventh Street Collective, which is s e v E

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Speaker 2: n t H s T c O L l e

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Speaker 2: c t i v E and that is a Long

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Speaker 2: Beach emergency response preparation group. And one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: that donating directly to mutual aid groups. Is good is

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Speaker 2: because the larger organizations, the ones that people from out

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Speaker 2: of town know about to donate to, right, I'm not

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Speaker 2: even going to necessarily knock them, but they tend to

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Speaker 2: rely on actual on the ground mutual aid groups to

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Speaker 2: do the sort of final mile problem anyway, And if

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Speaker 2: you want to cut out the middleman and support direct

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Speaker 2: mutual aid, you're gonna your dollars will go further and

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Speaker 2: they'll do it much faster. So you know that is

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Speaker 2: I mean, I have a bias towards this, but I

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Speaker 2: just like have found that to be true in my

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Speaker 2: own limited experience with disaster response. But Sophie, I'm really

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Speaker 2: excited about this week's episode. This has been on my

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Speaker 2: list since the very beginning. This is like one of

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Speaker 2: the cool history stories that made me care about cool

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Speaker 2: history because this week we are going to talk about

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite topics of all time, Maroon communities.

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Speaker 2: And normally I'd be like, have you heard of maroon communities?

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Speaker 2: But you've been on the podcast as the producer, and

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Speaker 2: I've done numerous episodes about maroon communities. But I'm like curious,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm curious, you know, kind of what you come

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Speaker 2: into it. Have you heard of the Great Dismal Swamp?

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Speaker 1: No? Hell yeah, And obviously you told me the topic beforehand,

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Speaker 1: and I like did not look things up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is good because that's the way it's supposed

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Speaker 2: to be. I don't know why. I just find the

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Speaker 2: format more fun that way.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a really good dinner party conversation that

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Speaker 1: you're having where you're telling somebody an epic tale and

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Speaker 1: they're like reacting to It's that's yeah.

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Speaker 2: Totally, totally. It's compared to like the I'm not trying

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Speaker 2: to talk shit on other podcasts. Other podcasts are fine.

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Speaker 2: I less enjoy when two experts on a subject talk

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Speaker 2: about the thing, because then instead of one person representing

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Speaker 2: the audience, it's just like listening to two instructors at

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Speaker 2: the same time or whatever. Anyway, and that's why we

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Speaker 2: use this format now everyone knows, because some of us

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Speaker 2: prefer it. So we are not talking about just any

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Speaker 2: maroon community this week. We are talking about the granddaddy

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Speaker 2: of United States maroon communities. For anyone who doesn't know

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Speaker 2: what I'm talking about when I say maroon community, Maroons

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Speaker 2: are people who have self emancipated from slavery.

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Speaker 3: People free societies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, basically just like the shit that when I

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Speaker 2: say keeps me up at night, I mean in the

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Speaker 2: positive way where it keeps me up at night, because

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Speaker 2: I just like read about this shit for fun, and

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Speaker 2: like anywhere there's been a community of like three or

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Speaker 2: three thousand people trying to live free and succeeding. I

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Speaker 2: just fucking love that shit. This one lasted for hundreds

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Speaker 2: of years, and when I first heard about this, it

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Speaker 2: kind of changed how I understood us history. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's been on my list since the very beginning of

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Speaker 2: planning this show. Tell me, well, it's North Carolina's pride

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Speaker 2: and joy. Although Virginia can claim it too. Lesser Virginia

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Speaker 2: can claim it too. The Great Dismal Swamp. I have

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Speaker 2: only been to the Great Dismal Swamp once I went

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Speaker 2: for an Earth First gathering like twenty two years ago.

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Speaker 2: I had just gotten out of I don't know why

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Speaker 2: I put in this thing about my own experience with it,

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Speaker 2: but I did tell us I just got out of

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Speaker 2: jail from a protest in DC.

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Speaker 4: Because this is a dinner party and we're having a

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Speaker 4: really lovely conversation.

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Speaker 2: All right, totally, yeah, exactly and basically like after we

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Speaker 2: all got out of jail, like they rest like seven

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Speaker 2: hundred of us, and when we all got out of jail,

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Speaker 2: a bunch of us just like walked into cars pretty

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Speaker 2: much and headed down to northeastern North Carolina to go

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Speaker 2: sleep in the swamps and talk about how to defend

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Speaker 2: them with earth firsters.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I have some good memories from that trip. Like one time,

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Speaker 2: one of the forest defenders from the West Coast was

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Speaker 2: showing us how to climb trees, and the tree sits

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Speaker 2: isn't a good story, is a bad story. And she

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Speaker 2: got her breast caught in the descending device because she

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Speaker 2: was climbing naked, and she and someone had to climb

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Speaker 2: up and rescue her. And that put the fear of

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Speaker 2: tree climbing into me.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, I thought you were going to say

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Speaker 4: there was like a nipple that flew off.

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Speaker 3: I was terrible.

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Speaker 2: No, no, god, everything they survived this, okay, Yeah, they

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Speaker 2: were okay, The breast was okay, they were okay, Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: There was like some bruising, but no, it actually was

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Speaker 2: all right because they were able to like take the

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Speaker 2: weight off of it right away. Yeah, But then they

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Speaker 2: were just like stuck.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were about to say it was a

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Speaker 1: flying nipple story. I had visuals that nobody should have.

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Speaker 2: Well we could. I mean I wish I was less honest,

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Speaker 2: because that would be a better way to tell the story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but your moral magpie.

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Speaker 2: I know, I've learned that justice sensitivity is a neuro

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Speaker 2: atypical trait, and now I understand why the world is

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Speaker 2: the way it is, is that it's an atypical trait.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But also the thing I remember about that trip is

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Speaker 2: a gigantic spider, Like I swear it was the size

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Speaker 2: of my hand that was inside my tent.

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Speaker 3: That's a nope for me, thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: I know, I actually decided that I would rather sleep

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Speaker 2: outside where if there were any spiders, they weren't stuck

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Speaker 2: with me, and so I just like went and curled

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Speaker 2: up my sleeping bag by the fire instead. But the

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Speaker 2: main thing I remember about the Great Dismal Swamp was

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Speaker 2: the story that one of the local organizers told of

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Speaker 2: the history of the area of the Maroon communities.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But one thing about the Great Dismal Swamp is that

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Speaker 2: I got so excited about it that I forgot to

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Speaker 2: do the rest of the intro credits.

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Speaker 4: Where we're we're just fucking it up today.

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Speaker 2: I know it would have gone terribly if I hadn't

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Speaker 2: pause to say that our audio engineers Rory Hi, Rory Hi, Rory,

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Speaker 2: and our theme music was written for us by unwoman.

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Speaker 2: But the main thing I remember about the Great Dismal

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Speaker 2: Swamp was the story that the local organizers told of

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Speaker 2: the history of the area, of the maroon communities, the

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Speaker 2: folks who are often called swampers, which is a like,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to mess with someone who that's their description.

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Speaker 2: I don't want that. It's not the prettiest title, you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I wouldn't want to mess with a swamper.

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Speaker 3: No, definitely not.

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Speaker 2: As long as there's been oppression, there have been people

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Speaker 2: who have learned that if you just live somewhere that

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Speaker 2: is an absolute pain in the ass to build roads in,

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Speaker 2: you can avoid that oppression the mountains. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: across history. There's like anthropology, but about this the art

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Speaker 2: of not being governed that I haven't finished reading yet.

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Speaker 2: My dad read it, and my dad read it and

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Speaker 2: was like, no, wonder you live in the mountains, But

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Speaker 2: if where you live is hard to get in and

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Speaker 2: out of. Not even hard to live, but hard to

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Speaker 2: get in and out of. You have less government overall.

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Speaker 2: So people resisting the creation of nation states have fled

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Speaker 2: to the mountains since forever. And it's like, why partisan

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Speaker 2: struggle happens in the mountains or whatever. Swamps, Yeah, swamps

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Speaker 2: are at least as much of a pain in the

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Speaker 2: asses mountains, and they are full of huge spiders and

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Speaker 2: you can't build anything there.

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Speaker 3: Apparently huge spiders.

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Speaker 2: Oh I know, it was probably only really the size

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Speaker 2: of my palm, but that is still that's huge. That's

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Speaker 2: too big for a spider for us, that's not good. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's not the spider's fault that I feel that way,

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Speaker 2: But it's just I have limits, you know. And it's

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Speaker 2: less that it's impossible to live in these places, and

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Speaker 2: more like it's impossible to set up state infrastructure and

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Speaker 2: methods of control and extract value from there. People live

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Speaker 2: in mountains and swamps and shit, and they always have,

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Speaker 2: but they're hard to project power into and they're hard

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Speaker 2: to economically extract from. I mean, people do it. Don't

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Speaker 2: get me wrong. I lived in I live in West Virginia.

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Speaker 2: This is one of the most economically extracted from places

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Speaker 2: in the country. But the way they do that is

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Speaker 2: they literally blow up the mountains. So whenever I research

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Speaker 2: a topic for this show, I go through sort of

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Speaker 2: an exploding head meme diagram of progressions of the versions

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Speaker 2: of this story. There's the clickbait summary that's too pat

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Speaker 2: and just too cool and too radical, and everyone is

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Speaker 2: perfect politics and everything was great, and then I stumble

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Speaker 2: upon the rejection of that story. I usually then on

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Speaker 2: top of that find the real story, which is sort

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Speaker 2: of usually a synthesis of the two. And that's how

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Speaker 2: this story was. I actually ended up back where I started,

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Speaker 2: way more than I thought I would. The first story

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Speaker 2: I heard about the Great Dismal Swamps was that it

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Speaker 2: was a place where for centuries people fleeing enslavement, Indigenous

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Speaker 2: people and poor white people lived in harmony, free from

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Speaker 2: the rule of law, and waged war on the slave

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Speaker 2: society around them. Clearly, I am drawn to this, right,

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Speaker 2: that is a perfect story for me. There is nothing

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Speaker 2: wrong here, you know. And then I heard a counterpoint,

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Speaker 2: which was still describing an amazing place, that the Maroon

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Speaker 2: community the Dismal Swamp was there, but it wasn't some

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Speaker 2: multi racial paradise. It was just a place where mostly

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Speaker 2: black people lived, and it wasn't at war with the

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Speaker 2: slave society. It was just trying to keep its head

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Speaker 2: down and survive. That was the story that like replaced

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Speaker 2: the initial story in my head. This was still this

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Speaker 2: is where I was at when I started my research,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, well, I'm covering that. That sounds amazing,

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Speaker 2: you know. But the thing is it was both of

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Speaker 2: these things at different times for different people, over the

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Speaker 2: course of hundreds of years, and they absolutely led endless

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Speaker 2: raids and wars on slave society out of these swamps.

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Speaker 2: So don't worry if that's what you're here for, there's

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Speaker 2: going to be raids. The short version of the story

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Speaker 2: is for centuries, people escaping oppression, white, Black and indigenous,

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Speaker 2: especially by the end mostly black, moved into the least

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Speaker 2: hospitable part of the East Coast and built a multi

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Speaker 2: generational community, or rather like dozens of different communities. They

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Speaker 2: led raids on nearby plantations and they helped countless people

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Speaker 2: escape to freedom. For the most part, they kept their

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Speaker 2: heads low rather than doing raids for survival. But there

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Speaker 2: was like different communities that had different vibes around this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's step two on the don't mess with us

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Speaker 1: checklist is we won't bother you if you don't bother us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, And I can only imagine there was

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Speaker 2: like some pretty annoying conversations in between these two groups

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Speaker 2: where they're like, could you please stop raiding? Whenever you raid,

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Speaker 2: they raid back, and people are like, yeah, but I

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Speaker 2: want to go kill the guy who owned me, And

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Speaker 2: people are like that's fair, valid, but yeah, yeah, both

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Speaker 2: sides have a point, you know. Yeah, but we don't

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Speaker 2: have a lot of records of what they actually talked

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Speaker 2: about internally because well, I'll talk about it they didn't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And then like even less than basically this

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Speaker 2: was like they chose to be in the dark place

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Speaker 2: on them be swamps.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, bad, bad place for things to not disintegrate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Oh yeah, that's probably like endless journals that

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Speaker 2: just oh man, that are swamp I know, I want

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Speaker 2: to read them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: By the time of the Civil War or during the

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Speaker 2: Civil War, they were in a gorilla war against the Confederacy,

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Speaker 2: and they put their lives on the line to help

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Speaker 2: other people find their freedom again and again because the

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Speaker 2: maroons of the Great Dismal Swamp were some of the

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Speaker 2: coolest people in American history. The problem is we mostly

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Speaker 2: have conjecture. In the past twenty years or so, there

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Speaker 2: have been more archaeological expeditions which confirmed a lot of

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Speaker 2: what people had been conjecturing, but we still don't really

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Speaker 2: know all the details. One abolition is journalist of the

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Speaker 2: nineteenth century named Edmund Jackson visited the place and he

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Speaker 2: wound up writing, quote, how long this colony has existed,

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Speaker 2: what is the amount of its population? What portion of

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Speaker 2: the colonists are now fugitives? And what are descendants of fugitives?

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Speaker 2: Are questions not easily determined, And we kind of just

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Speaker 2: don't have any better answers now than we did then. Well,

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Speaker 2: we have slightly better answers now because after the end

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Speaker 2: of the Civil War some of the people left, and

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Speaker 2: then they talked about what they did. You know, they're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I lived in the swamps for four years, or oh

301
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Speaker 2: I grew up there or whatever, you know, but only

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Speaker 2: a couple of those stories, fair enough. What they didn't

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Speaker 2: have in the swamps was advertisements. I actually don't know

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Speaker 2: how they knew what products and services to enjoy. They

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Speaker 2: might not even have that's not sure. I do know

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Speaker 2: they had products and services because there's archaeological evidence of

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Speaker 2: an instrument maker who lived there, which is the coolest

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Speaker 2: job ever. There's the guy who just made banjos in

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Speaker 2: the swamp for people who are rating slave society amazing.

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Speaker 2: So this show is sponsored by di y Banjo's only

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Speaker 2: if you promise to attack slavers, but it's also sponsored

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Speaker 2: by all of this other stuff. And we're back, We're bad.

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Speaker 2: I like Banjo's. One time I was talking to this

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Speaker 2: person and I was like, I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: remember me, and she was like, of course I remember you, Magpie.

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Speaker 2: You taught me how to play banjo. And I looked

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Speaker 2: at her. This is a period of my life where

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Speaker 2: I drank a lot and I said I knew how

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Speaker 2: to play banjo.

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Speaker 1: Ah, that's amazing.

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Speaker 2: Because apparently at some point I had learned how to

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Speaker 2: play banjo, and then, while drunk at a party, shown

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Speaker 2: this person how to play Banjo's amazing. Completely forgotten that

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Speaker 2: that happened.

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Speaker 3: Good for you, Magpie, Thanks thanks.

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Speaker 2: And that's why drinking and your early twenties leads to

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Speaker 2: a lot of stories that you can't tell because you

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Speaker 2: don't know them anyway. So for most of the people

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Speaker 2: living in the swamp, anti maroon laws meant that it

330
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Speaker 2: would be one hundred percent legal for people to just

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Speaker 2: outright murder them for like centuries. Basically, like if you

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Speaker 2: live in the swamp, someone could just like come by

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Speaker 2: and shoot you and get away with it, right, So

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Speaker 2: they they kept pretty closed lipped about what they were

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Speaker 2: up to. People didn't want to talk much about the

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00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,439
Speaker 2: huge multi century crime they were all committing together. And

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Speaker 2: my lord, if you're going to do a good crime,

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Speaker 2: it should be multi century bad crimes. You should just

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Speaker 2: keep them short.

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Speaker 3: That's so funny.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny. There are two books that are my

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00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 2: main sources for this. Both came out in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: I wish I knew what that. Neither one references the other,

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Speaker 2: but I'm like, I'm so curious. One is the sort

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Speaker 2: of main history book on the subject. It is called

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Speaker 2: Dismal Freedom by Jay Brent Morris, and it seems to

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Speaker 2: be the main historical book collecting all the evidence that

348
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Speaker 2: we have. It comes out from University of North Carolina Press.

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Speaker 2: It's more of a history book. The other book is

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Speaker 2: called Intimate Direct Democracy by Mediebo Cadale, and it is

351
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Speaker 2: more of a social history. It presents where the Maroons

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Speaker 2: of the Swamp stood as practitioners of direct democracy and

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Speaker 2: egalitarian social structuring, and like kind of how they tied

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Speaker 2: into the larger abolitionist and anti colonial struggle that was

355
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Speaker 2: happening at the time. They're both good. There's this huge

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Speaker 2: swamp called the Great Dismal Swamp. It straddles the border

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Speaker 2: from North Carolina to Lesser Virginia, sometimes referred to as

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Speaker 2: Virginia by people who don't live in West Virginia. I'm

359
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Speaker 2: trying to start a fight between two states, but no

360
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Speaker 2: one else here actually calls regular virgin way. I've decided

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Speaker 2: that West Virginia, which is my adopted home and not

362
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Speaker 2: where I am from. So I'm kind of opposer saying this,

363
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Speaker 2: but because it exists because it didn't want to fight

364
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Speaker 2: for the Confederacy, I'm like, well, it's clearly Greater Virginia,

365
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Speaker 2: and so I don't know why Virginia it gets to

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Speaker 2: be Regular Virginia and West Virginia has to be West Virginia.

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Speaker 2: I think there's West Virginia and then Lesser Virginia. That's

368
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Speaker 2: my theory.

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Speaker 3: Hagpie, what the fuck? I know, stop trying to make

370
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Speaker 3: people fight.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's particularly bad right now because as I'm recording this,

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00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,160
Speaker 2: people and in Lesser Virginia don't have any running water

373
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Speaker 2: because of an ice storm, or at least in Richmond, Virginia.

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Speaker 2: And oh I did it. I slipped up in Richmond

375
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Speaker 2: Lesser Virginia. They don't have any running water right now. Wow,

376
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 2: So sorry about y'all's water situation. Anyway, there's a swamp.

377
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,920
Speaker 2: It crosses between well, at the time it was just Virginia,

378
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 2: and by at the time it didn't have any name.

379
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 2: Well whatever, Anyway, I'm gonna cover a lot of history.

380
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 2: The Carolinas don't even exist at the start of this story.

381
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,479
Speaker 2: Big swamp used to be about two thousand square miles,

382
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,880
Speaker 2: which is a meaningless number to me until I looked

383
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,880
Speaker 2: it up. Do you have any sense of how big

384
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Speaker 2: two thousand square miles is?

385
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 1: No?

386
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 3: I have. That does not compute in my brain. Ever.

387
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Speaker 2: I know if someone could say twelve thousand square miles

388
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 2: or twelve million square miles and they could be the

389
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 2: same size, and I would not go, you know, hold.

390
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,919
Speaker 1: On two thousand. It's a Delaware miles. I don't think

391
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 1: about Delaware ever, no offense.

392
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Speaker 2: Oh right, I'm from well, not there, but close enough.

393
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 2: It's a it's more than a Rhode Island.

394
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,920
Speaker 3: Wait, I'm looking at a graphic.

395
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Speaker 1: For those other people that don't think about it, it says.

396
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Speaker 3: You know, but it's a terrible graphic. I take it back.

397
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 3: I don't care about that graphic.

398
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Speaker 2: To comparing it to like a number of dinosaurs something that.

399
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Speaker 3: Just doesn't matter. How big is two thousand square miles.

400
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 2: That's more than a mosquito could fly at a fortnight.

401
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,199
Speaker 3: That's nothing. None of these things do anything for me.

402
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 2: All right, Well, Rhode Island is like fifteen hundred, but

403
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 2: you all have states that are the size of like Europe.

404
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm a West Coast galley.

405
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 1: Los Angeles is five hundred square miles, so you're telling

406
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: me it is four four lays. So that's large and

407
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 1: in charge.

408
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's also wild that LA is a third the

409
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 2: size of one of the states.

410
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 1: But anyway, but also like one of the top three

411
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Speaker 1: economies in the world.

412
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it makes sense. These days, there's about a

413
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 2: thousand square miles left overall of the swamp, but the

414
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 2: actual portion of it that is like truly the untouched

415
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 2: and protected swamp, is way smaller than that, because everything

416
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 2: that happens in the United States is the story of

417
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 2: the loss of ecosystems. Yep. Originally it ran all the

418
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 2: way from the Chesapeake Bay up north to the album

419
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 2: Maral sound in the South, which I clearly probably know

420
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,959
Speaker 2: how to pronounce. I didn't look it up, so I'm

421
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 2: probably wrong, which is annoying because it's a word that's

422
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 2: gonna come up again and again, and if you're from

423
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 2: that area, you're gonna get just like slightly grouch. Here

424
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: with me every time I say album Marley, album Marl,

425
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 2: album Marl. I'm going with album Marle. See how it goes.

426
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 2: Not all of the swamp was completely impenetrable, but a

427
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 2: lot of it was. And like these days, the I've

428
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 2: read like anecdotal stories whenever people are trying to talk

429
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 2: about how remote the Dismal Swamp is. Yeah, they say

430
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 2: that special forces like parachute in the middle of it

431
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: to test their metal against nature. Well that's nice, yeah,

432
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 2: but they're doing it against the tiny version m so

433
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 2: they ain't got nothing on an old maroon. It's the

434
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 2: first place I ever saw intact old growth forest besides

435
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 2: like an old oak tree here or there or whatever,

436
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 2: because I am not an West Coast girling. The swamp

437
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 2: is a wonderful place and people have been fleeing there

438
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: since the very first white people showed up anywhere near it.

439
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: People have been fleeing into this swamp since before English

440
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 2: people showed up.

441
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 3: That's wild.

442
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have been living near and alongside the swamp

443
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 2: for a really long ass time. There's archaeological evidence of

444
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: settlement in the area by the early woodlanda culture about

445
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 2: which little is known. By the sixteenth century, about a

446
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 2: dozen different peoples lived in the swamp, and these were

447
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 2: generally smaller tribes, clans, nations that were less prosperous than

448
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: like the Cherokee who lived just west of them. And

449
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 2: the first white settlement in the area did not last.

450
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 2: In fact, it sort of presages the rest of the story.

451
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: About six hundred or seven hundred Spanish folk showed up

452
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 2: in fifteen twenty five with one hundred and slaved Africans

453
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 2: in tow and the trip went badly for the white

454
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 2: people in that group. From the beginning, their flagship ran

455
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: aground the indigenous interpreters they brought along with them, pieced

456
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 2: out and took off into the forest, and the settlers

457
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: built a settlement called San Miguel de Gualdape, and they

458
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 2: had the first known slave re volt in North America,

459
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 2: pre dating even the English showing up, because all the

460
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 2: settlers were starving and they were arguing, like, it's funny

461
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 2: because it it also predates, like, well, I'll get to

462
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 2: the complicated nature of how the slave trade started in

463
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 2: North America and like how like sixteen nineteen was the

464
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 2: first time that like unfree Africans arrived or whatever, and

465
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 2: so we're sti talking about like one hundred years before that. Cool,

466
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: But all the settlers were starving and they're arguing, like, hey,

467
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 2: should we go back home? And they started in fighting,

468
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: and the guy who wanted to stay was arrested by

469
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 2: the people who wanted to leave, and the enslaved people

470
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: were like, the fuck all this. They actually rescued the leader,

471
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: the one who was arrested, set fired to a bunch

472
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 2: of the buildings, and then fucked off into the woods

473
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 2: to join the local indigenous people. And that's the end

474
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: of anyone hearing about them. They had a successful slaver

475
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,719
Speaker 2: vault and disappeared to go live in the woods with

476
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 2: people who liked them.

477
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 3: That's crazy.

478
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the that's the true story of the founding

479
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: of America. By fifteen twenty seven, one hundred and fifty

480
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: Spanish survivors went back home. It was not a successful settlement.

481
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: In sixteen oh seven, the English people showed up founded Jamestown,

482
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: the first permanent settlement by the English in North America.

483
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: And within two fucking years people were already rebelling. Like

484
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 2: when there was like only like one hundred people there,

485
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 2: people were fucking off and running into the woods.

486
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 3: Incredibly cool.

487
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they brought a bunch of indentured servants with them.

488
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 2: About two thirds or three quarters of the people who

489
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 2: were in the first wave of English settlements were indentured

490
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 2: servants and legally unfree. This isn't slavery. And people like

491
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 2: to argue like crazy about that, mostly white people who

492
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 2: want to feel oppressed. But you don't have to argue

493
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: that indentured servitude to slavery in order to feel oppressed.

494
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 2: The indentured servants, who were all white at first, they

495
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 2: were oppressed. It was a fucked up and unfree situation.

496
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: By sixteen oh nine, they started running away and joining

497
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: the Powatans, which is a confederation of indigenous group that

498
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 2: the English had imediately shown up and murdered and enslaved

499
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 2: and shit like. Literally, by the end of this first

500
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: century of English settlement, ninety percent of the Powatan population

501
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: is gone and the rest will be scattered. Wow, it

502
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: would be really fun to teach American.

503
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: History because it's just such a It'd be like it

504
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 1: would have been my dream history teacher.

505
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: I would have had a real hard time sticking to

506
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 2: the syllabus if it was provided to me by the state,

507
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: because like, I didn't learn that, Like when they first

508
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: showed up, immediately people were like, not a hell with this,

509
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not starving for you rich people, like

510
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 2: because in sixteen o nine to sixteen ten was the

511
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 2: starving Time in Jamestown. I probably did learn about this

512
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 2: in school. I just didn't care because these people didn't

513
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: feel like the protagonists to me. You know, Yeah, people

514
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: were starving to death, thus the name starving Time, and

515
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: they ate dogs and people and it was bad. So

516
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: people were like, well, I could die for you, the

517
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 2: guy who owns my contract or I could get the

518
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: fuck out of here and go into the woods and

519
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: hang out with these people who are perfectly nice. And

520
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 2: so they fled, not all of them, but a ton

521
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: of them fled despite being told they would be executed

522
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 2: if they were caught.

523
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: Do love an or they're like, yeah, I could do

524
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: that thing that sounds really fucking awful, or literally anything else.

525
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, high risk, high reward, get the fuck out of here.

526
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 2: And also, at some point there's no risk because you're

527
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 2: just dead either way, you know, right. I was gonna

528
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 2: write that all these first indentured servants who fled were white,

529
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: because black people weren't transported to the British colonies until

530
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: sixteen nineteen, and the first ones were indentured servants. But

531
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 2: these folks weren't white yet because whiteness is a social

532
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: category didn't exist in older conceptions of slavery. You could

533
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: enslave people for life if they were a different religion

534
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 2: than you. If they converted to Christianity, you were supposed

535
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 2: to set them free. This is obviously not a good system, right,

536
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: but it has a convert to Christianity, get free. Loophole,

537
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 2: like wasn't going to work for people, specifically the Spanish

538
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: and the Portuguese colonies, the Catholic colonies. By sixteen fifty,

539
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: you have hereditary, lifelong enslavement based on race in the

540
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: Spanish and Portuguese colonies. English people were like, well, that

541
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 2: sounds good for the economy. Sign us up. That's my

542
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 2: British accent. I can't do a British accent. And they

543
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 2: did this when Charles the Second was restorative throne after

544
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: the English Civil War, which you can listen to our

545
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: episode about the Levelers if you want to hear more

546
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 2: about that, and the king Charles the Second was like, hell, yeah,

547
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: let's do the slave trade thing. Sign us up and

548
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: we'll talk more about Charles the Second in a little bit.

549
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: Don't worry. I know you're like, I hope there's more

550
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: Charles the Second in here. Even before that, the English

551
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: settlers were like, you know, it sucks that we go

552
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: through all this work to get these people here and

553
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: like make them work for us without paying them, but

554
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 2: then we have to let them go at the end

555
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: of it, Like where's the where's the profit in that?

556
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: Besides the prophit I've already gotten out of them, So

557
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: why don't we just come up with loopholes where if

558
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: people do anything we dislike, we extend their contracts. By

559
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: sixteen forty two, you have runaway labor laws, which means

560
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: fugitive slave laws in America are literally older than slavery

561
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: in the colonies. The idea that like, if a worker

562
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: runs away, you're gonna hunt them down and maybe kill

563
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: them is really really baked into this country.

564
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ, I fucking hate America.

565
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, for any strong American patriots, you're not gonna like

566
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: this episode.

567
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, pool should ask USA scam ass country.

568
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: It absolutely is a scam country. That's like the core

569
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: of so much of what the stuff that relates to.

570
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 3: All this scam ass country.

571
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: By the sixteen sixties, you have race based slavery in

572
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 2: the US going off like crazy, And I want to

573
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: go on a rabbit hole down. The wildest thing I

574
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: learned on the side while researching all of this.

575
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 4: Like at a dinner party, would you have like a

576
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 4: side story?

577
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 3: Oh, this is great side question?

578
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: All right. So, not only was Benjamin Franklin very racist,

579
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,479
Speaker 2: especially in his youth, he goes abolitionist near the end

580
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: of his life, but like he believed that we should

581
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: keep America white. So that are you ready for this?

582
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: So that we could look good to space aliens, sir,

583
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 2: literal outer space aliens living on Mars and Venus is

584
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: why we should make America white, Sir. I'm gonna read

585
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 2: you the quote.

586
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: Sir.

587
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: Ben Franklin wrote a piece in seventeen fifty one called

588
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: Observations concerning the Increase of Mankind. In it, he lays

589
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 2: out the colonial American mindset of race. And I think

590
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: because I actually started reading this piece because I was

591
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: trying to understand the colonial conceptions of racial categories, right yeah,

592
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: because I started talking about how the people who ran

593
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: away were black and tawny, and I was like, what

594
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: the fuck is tawny? Why do why is a new

595
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: racial category being But I'll tell you about tawny. According

596
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: to Ben Franklin quote, the number of purely white people

597
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: in the world is proportionately very small. All of Africa

598
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 2: is black or tawny. Asia is chiefly tawny, America exclusive

599
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: of newcomers wholly so. And in Europe the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians,

600
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: and Swedes are generally what we call a swarthy complexion,

601
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: as are the Germans. Also, Yeah, that's right, the fucking

602
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 2: Swedes and Germans aren't white. That's how fucking anyway.

603
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 3: Crazy.

604
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: The Saxons only accepted who with the English make the

605
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 2: principal body of white people on the face of the Earth.

606
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: I could wish their numbers were increased. And while we

607
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: are as I may call it scouring our planet by

608
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 2: clearing America of woods and so making this side of

609
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: our globe reflect a brighter light to the eyes of

610
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: inhabitants in Mars or Venus, Why should we, in the

611
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: sight of superior beings, darken its people. Why increase the

612
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: suns of Africa by planting them in America, where we

613
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: have so fair an opportunity by excluding all blacks and

614
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: tawnis of increasing the lovely white and red. But perhaps

615
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: I am partial to the complexion of my country, for

616
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: such of partiality is natural to mankind. So like, he's

617
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: doing so many things here.

618
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: Heday, he's all over the place, and just like so

619
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: stupid and like, ah, okay, yeah, what do you go.

620
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: I'm like a bathel if you just threw I know,

621
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: I know, there's so much going on here.

622
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 3: Ramble so much ramble rmble.

623
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: I love the like, well, everyone's racist for their own race.

624
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: That's not true. You have to teach kids that race

625
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: exists and that they should hate people for looking different,

626
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: you know, correct, correct, And he makes up four races

627
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: and he puts everyone in them from a scale of

628
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: bad to good. Yeah, black, tawny, swarthy, and white. And

629
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: he's saying that English people are whiter than Swedish people

630
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: by complexion, which is just funny.

631
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: Guy's I'm like this guy, Ben Franklin. It's like I

632
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: keep forgetting that it's that it's Ben Franklin and not

633
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: just some random asshole. He's, you know, mister elite asshole,

634
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: mister mister ceo of asshole them.

635
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 2: I know. And he's like the science man who's on

636
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: our money, right yeah, And so he's developing this race

637
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 2: science in order to make us more beautiful to aliens.

638
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: And I was thinking, like, this has to be a

639
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: literary device, right, and like on some level it is.

640
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: But apparently a lot of the Founding fathers real all

641
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: about that alien thing. I mean, to be fair, like

642
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: it's pretty reasonable to be like, well, those other worlds

643
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 2: there might be aliens there. I'm not. I'm not mad

644
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 2: at him for believing it. But you shouldn't do racism

645
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 2: to look good to aliens, correct, especially if your hypothesis

646
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 2: is that everyone thinks that the way they look is

647
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 2: the best. Well, then why would aliens like any of

648
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: us at all? If everyone's racist like you? Anyway?

649
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: America scam mass country. We have an American mass country

650
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 1: speaking of scams? Is that what you're about to do? No?

651
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 2: No, All of our products are individually hand vetted by

652
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: no one an algorithm. Here's the ads.

653
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 1: And rebeca ya.

654
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 2: But we're not at Ben Franklin Times yet, We're still

655
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,439
Speaker 2: in sixteen ten of Jamestown. I just had to skip

656
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: ahead one hundred years because I got really excited about.

657
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: That guy in the Aliens, like at a dinner party,

658
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: telling a story out of order.

659
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: Just funny because like during the course of my week,

660
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: on an average week, I talked to at least one

661
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: of my friends and excitedly tell them the story. And

662
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: that actually helps me figure out which parts are like

663
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 2: the exciting parts, you know, the part that I can't

664
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: wait to tell my friend, you know. Absolutely so when

665
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: indentured servants in Virginia were like, I'm good, I don't

666
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: want to be owned by a guy. For another several years,

667
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: they fled south southern coastal Virginia aka near the swamps,

668
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: became the place for people who wanted to actually live free.

669
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: And it was interesting because it was even understood then,

670
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: right because like in America scam propaganda, you get told like,

671
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: live free means exploit other people's labor and become rich,

672
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: because that's what the founding fathers were all about. Sure,

673
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 2: it was even understood by a lot of people then.

674
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 2: To live free was not to live.

675
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 3: Wealthy, to live sustainably.

676
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: If you want to be wealthy, you stay in Plantation Town. Yeah.

677
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: Sustainably yeah.

678
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 2: If you want to live free where people don't tell

679
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 2: each other what to do and you all just get

680
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: along with each other, you go into what would have

681
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 2: been called the Indian territories, you go into you know,

682
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: you go outside the colonies. So in order to live free,

683
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: you don't want to have a state at all. So

684
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 2: there's this whole uncolonized region between English Virginia and Spanish Florida,

685
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 2: and that's where people white and black went for decades

686
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 2: before the founding of the Carolinas. Some went into the

687
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 2: swamps themselves and formed the start of what later became

688
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: the Dismal Swamp Maroon communities. Others more of them settled

689
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 2: around the area, especially around the Albemarle Sound. You'd think

690
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 2: I would looked it up during a break, but I didn't.

691
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 2: This history of this time feels a little bit blurry,

692
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna I'm not gonna say this next little

693
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: bit with the most confidence, but I referenced everything they

694
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: could right Over the course of the sixteen hundreds people

695
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: fleeing colonial government went to the Albemarle Sound and was

696
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 2: now North Carolina, the southern end of the Great Dismal Swamp.

697
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: There they formed an independent assembly of people, the albamarl Assembly.

698
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: I told you I was going to say this name

699
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: a lot. And they worked within the Tuscarora Confederacy, which

700
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: was a confederacy of three tribes in the area. And

701
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: they had a culture built on a galitarian values, like

702
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 2: avoiding the idea of having rich landowners who control everything.

703
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: And they also wanted to avoid racism between white, black,

704
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 2: and indigenous people, so they had a tri racial setup,

705
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: and that is going to play a huge part in

706
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 2: everything that is to come and as part of why,

707
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 2: it's just like, I don't know, it's such a cool story.

708
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: The Anglican Church was largely kept out of the region.

709
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 2: People practiced and it wasn't a big deal, and you'd

710
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: have like priests or pastors or whatever, but they'd like

711
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: practice in private because the Anglican Church was seen as

712
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: like basically an institute of the state and they didn't

713
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 2: want that there. Quaker mission Quakers mentioned, sorry, yep, no, yeah, yeah,

714
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 2: this is like actually North Carolina is heavily Quaker at

715
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: this time because they had more religious freedom, especially once

716
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: you actually have a yeah Carolina in a couple of decades.

717
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, so everyone take a drink. Quakers were mentioned,

718
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 2: and Quaker's found more acceptance there.

719
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: Sick.

720
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 2: By the sixteen sixties, King Charles the Second, who I

721
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: told you I was going to come back to he

722
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: was ruling in England and he granted Carolinas to a

723
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 2: bunch of English people, even though it wasn't his to

724
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: give away. Imagine doing that.

725
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 3: Why do they do that? Yeah, why do they think that's? Okay?

726
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 4: Just imagine just imagine somebody being you know, let's go

727
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 4: even like super basic.

728
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go potatoes. It's it's fucking good people to

729
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 3: close up.

730
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: You have just made a magical, delicious, let's go baked

731
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: potato for one, and you have your fork and you're

732
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: about to take a bite of it.

733
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 4: And not only do they take your potato, but they

734
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 4: take your fork and give it to some guy you've

735
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 4: never met.

736
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: I know, I know, and like and not not a

737
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 2: hungry guy.

738
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 4: Not a hungry not not a guy who's hungry, not

739
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 4: a guy who doesn't have a baked potato or a.

740
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 5: Fork, a guy who has a lot of potatoes, guy

741
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 5: who's drowning of potatoes and forks, yeah, and all the fixins.

742
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh, just like you're like, excuse me, that's

743
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 2: my potato.

744
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 4: That's my fucking potato, motherfucker.

745
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

746
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 4: And then and then.

747
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, was this your potato? Well, now I'm

748
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: gonna call it New York potato.

749
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: Or totally we're gonna name it after Sophie. We stole

750
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 2: your potato.

751
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I took my Sofie potato, and now they're gonna

752
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 4: call it.

753
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 5: I don't know, Harry, Well, they might still call it

754
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 5: a Sophie potato forever, but or your descendants will have

755
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 5: to fight for to rename Sophie Potato but not actually

756
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 5: be given back to them.

757
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, anyway, Uh so yeah Carolina, no, no, no, no,

758
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: this is a good this is a good side quest

759
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: and uh we're both hungry. I think is also part

760
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: of what's happening. Definitely Carolina now has a government, but

761
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 2: for decades longer, several generations. The album Marl Assembly continues

762
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 2: its a galitarian, anti authoritarian ways because power projection is

763
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 2: a very different, like it's a very different thing to

764
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: be like I'm in charge and then have a way

765
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: to tell people you're in charge and make that happen.

766
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 2: A lot of anthropology is like literally around the study

767
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: of like, but could the king tell anyone what to do?

768
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 2: You know?

769
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 1: Well, I love when I love when some guy that's

770
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: definitely not in charge tries to tell people they're in charge,

771
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 1: and then someone else who's actually in charge just walks

772
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: in the room and everybody realizes this is that that

773
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: person's in charge. It's one of my favorite scenarios.

774
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 2: That is the vibe of what's happening in Northern Carolina

775
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,240
Speaker 2: right now. Because okay, because Carolina was the entire region

776
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: between Virginia and Florida is like one big entity, and

777
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 2: it was. The government was in Charleston, which was far

778
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: to the south of Northern Carolina and like not easy

779
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 2: to travel. So in Northern Carolina and people are like,

780
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: all right, whatever we're doing. For a couple decades, people

781
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 2: are just kind of doing whatever they want. Yeah, it

782
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 2: gains a reputation Northern Carolina as a rogues harbor, which

783
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 2: is always a good time. If you have a choice

784
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: between living in a rogu's harbor and not living in

785
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: a rogues harbor, you should live in a rogue's harbor.

786
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 3: So my dog's called my house.

787
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. The governor of Virginia around this time said, quote,

788
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: as regards our neighbor, North Carolina is and always was

789
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: the sink of America, the refuge of our renegades until

790
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 2: in better order, it is a danger to us. So

791
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: if you live in North Carolina, you should have some

792
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: pride about that. It was full of quote pirates and

793
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 2: runaway servants, and it didn't have a government. I mean,

794
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: it did have a government, but not one that was

795
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 2: good at projecting power. And the Arbor Marlay Assembly is

796
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 2: doing its thing. And someone complained at the time that quote,

797
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: all sorts of people, even servants, negroes, Aliens, Jews, and

798
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: common sailors were admitted to vote. So hey, the first

799
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 2: place that black people were able to vote in North

800
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: America probably was the Assembly around the Sound, because you

801
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: had a sort of democratic thing actually happening, unlike whatever. Anyway,

802
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: I'll talk more about the American Revolution later when we

803
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 2: get to it. And this place was sometimes referred to

804
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 2: disparagingly as the Quaker Leveler Republic, and that is not

805
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: a bad thing to be at all. And in this

806
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 2: case levelers for people haven't listened to my episode about

807
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 2: the Levelers. They're this English radical group that was trying

808
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: to level the difference between the rich and the poor,

809
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 2: which we need right now. But this place, with the Assembly,

810
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,959
Speaker 2: it was not an outright utopia. There were slavers there

811
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 2: and there were enslaved people, the substantially fewer than elsewhere.

812
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: One historian I read talked about how it managed to

813
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 2: stay oddly egalitarian despite some people owning each other, like

814
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 2: wasn't trying to be like and it's totally fine now, right,

815
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 2: but there just like was a difference between plantation culture

816
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: and like the comparison it used I think they talked

817
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: about being like on both ends of the saw cutting.

818
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 2: You know, it was like old timey saws where you

819
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: cut down a tree with like a two person saw.

820
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 2: You know, you're going to be like everyone's equal when

821
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 2: you're holding the saw. It's the kind of vibe that

822
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: they claimed again, it's slavery, it's bad, right.

823
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

824
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 2: They also, despite allowing that, they had this policy of

825
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 2: allowing runaways, including runaway and slave people to come and

826
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: stay there and be unharrassed. So even though some people

827
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 2: weren't free there, other people were harbored as fugitives from

828
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: It seems messy, that's what it seems like. It seems messy.

829
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: And then like debtors, they pass this law that when

830
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 2: you show up your debt is a racer, like we're

831
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 2: not gonna no one can come and get you for

832
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 2: your debt. And I was a little bit like, well,

833
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 2: what's that about. Is it like, oh, you went bankrupt.

834
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 2: I think that's a reference to indentured servitude because that's

835
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 2: your death.

836
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: Oh okay that that yeah, yeah, that seems logical.

837
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 2: And the radical vibe of the area started to ebb.

838
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 2: By sixteen ninety or so, what.

839
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: An excellent sentence you wrote there. The radical vibe of

840
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: the area started to ed by sixteen ninety or so,

841
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: just like, what a great sentence, thank you, thank you.

842
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 3: Feel like people.

843
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: Don't realize how hard it is to like write about

844
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: history and make it sound like uniquely your own. But yeah,

845
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: like the radical vibe of the area started to ebb

846
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: by sixteen ninety or so.

847
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 2: So Magpie and writing a script where you know you're

848
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: going to read it aloud and you want it to

849
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: sound natural when you read it aloud. It is like

850
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 2: a had to compliment that I refuse to go back

851
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: and listen to my first episodes.

852
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 3: They don't exist. What do you mean?

853
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what I want? Yeah, although some of them

854
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 2: are good, but yeah, yeah. But by sixteen ninety nine,

855
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 2: an Anglican deputy governor declared the Church of England is

856
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 2: the official state religion of the Carolinas and made everyone

857
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 2: pay a tax to support the church. Worse than that,

858
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 2: he came up with a way to drive the Quakers

859
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 2: out of office because they did this thing where they

860
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: decided that all officials needed to swear an oath to

861
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 2: the new Queen Anne of England and Quakers are forbidden

862
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 2: by the religion from swearing oaths. And the reason is

863
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 2: kind of cool. Quakers are already forbidden to lie, So

864
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: you can't swear an oath saying you're telling the truth

865
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 2: because that implies you ever lie, so like you're always

866
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 2: telling the truth. Therefore you can't swear an oath.

867
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 3: Okay.

868
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 2: So all of the Quakers were kicked out of office

869
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 2: in the Carolinas, and you get this tiny uprising called

870
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: Carry's Rebellion, where the people being ousted from power tried

871
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: really hard not to be ousted from power, and the

872
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: Royal Navy intervened. I had this whole thing where I

873
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: was like writing in paragraphs and paragraphs about this, but

874
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 2: then I was like, Okay, Kerrie's Rebellion is absolutely a

875
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 2: side quest here. And the Royal Navy intervened, and the

876
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,479
Speaker 2: Quaker leveler Republic fell, and the people who'd been living

877
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: for generations in this anti authoritarian, anti racist settlement, some

878
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: of them fled into the less settled interior of the state,

879
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: but others fled into the great dismal Swamp, and they

880
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: probably weren't alone there even already. Certainly they were about

881
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 2: to not be alone there at all. Because a ton

882
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 2: more people are going to come and they're going to

883
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 2: lead gorilla wars against slavery for centuries. But we're not

884
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: going to talk about it today. We're going to talk

885
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: about it on Wednesday. But first, well, how are we feeling?

886
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 2: I guess we haven't really gotten to the maroons yet.

887
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 2: We've just gotten to some people.

888
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a context episode. It's great.

889
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot I still do that. Yep.

890
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: Fuck Ben Franklin, I'm having a good time.

891
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, anything you want to plug here at the

892
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 2: end of the first episode.

893
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 1: It's a great question. I mean the organizations we plugged

894
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: at the top and then yeah, uh, you know, just

895
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 1: follow all the cool Zone Media shows at cool Zone

896
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: Media on Blue Sky, Twitter and Instagram.

897
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'll say, if you're looking at all this

898
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 2: stuff happening elsewhere, maybe you don't live in Texas or

899
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 2: Richmond or LA right now, but you're looking and you're like, oh,

900
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 2: that's going to eventually happen where I'm at, or maybe

901
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 2: it already has, or maybe you do live in one

902
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,439
Speaker 2: of those places. There's never a wrong time to start

903
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 2: getting prepared. And I think that I guess This is

904
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,959
Speaker 2: a plug for my other podcast, Live Like the World

905
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: Is Dying, in which I talk alongside other co hosts

906
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: about preparedness and how it's not just like a right

907
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 2: wing people and bunkers thing, but it's not as intimidating

908
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: as you think it is. To get started. Really at

909
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 2: the very beginning, preparedness looks like try and have about

910
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: three days where the food, water, and power for like

911
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: cell phones, you know, like battery banks or whatever, like

912
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: little tiny ones in your house, plus a go bag

913
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: ready to go in case of emergencies. That's the that's

914
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 2: the start, you know, and that'll get you through a lot.

915
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 2: And by being individually prepared, you are in a better

916
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 2: position to help the communities around you. So that's that's

917
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: what I'll say here at the end of this episode.

918
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,959
Speaker 2: And if you're living through a hard time, good luck,

919
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 2: and I hope we're all able to take care of

920
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 2: each other and support mutual aid and see you Wednesday.

921
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

922
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media and more podcasts and cool Zone Media.

923
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: Visit our website Foolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

924
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever

925
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 3: You get your podcasts,