WEBVTT - Vince Gill 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.639 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bop Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:17.479 My guest today is Vince Guilt, was putting out monthly 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:22.919 EPs to celebrate his fifty years in the music business. Vince, 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:25.079 how good a golfer are you? 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.600 Well? I might have tried to play tour golf if 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.560 I hadn't been a decent guitar player. But I was 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.520 a little bit better guitar player than I was a putter, 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:35.720 so I made the right decision. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.040 Well, how much do you play now? I play all 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:39.440 the time. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.640 I've played my whole life since I was a little kid, 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.200 and played all through school and on the school teams 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.080 and stuff. And I just had so much more interest, 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.800 I think, in music than I ever did in sports 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.520 or any of that stuff. So I chose a path 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:54.920 of being a hillbilly singer. 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.840 Okay, but how did you get into golf to begin with? 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:01.520 I guess I watched my old man take off on 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.760 the weekends, you know, and go play play weekend golf 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:07.720 with his buddies, and he couldn't break a hundred with 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.319 a gun to his head. And he took me out 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.040 when I was probably first, second, third grade, and we 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.200 played nine holes in a little golf course in some 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:20.960 for an area of Oklahoma where the greens weren't even 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.280 made out of green of grass, they were made out 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.800 of cottonseed holes. And it was it was pasture pool 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.280 at its finest. And it stuck. And I've played my 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.840 whole life, okay, but so literally, how much do you 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.600 play now? I'll play a couple of times a week, 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:38.720 you know, usually last year was a lean year. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:39.280 Okay. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.120 You belonged to a club, so you can get out 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:47.240 several that's by old guitars and club and country club memberships. 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:48.400 That's my advice. 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.080 How do you decide which course to play, which one 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:53.480 I like, which one is not going to be the 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.080 most crowded, you know, generally is where you turn up? 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.000 And have you done any golf tourism like going to 0:01:59.000 --> 0:01:59.920 Scotland to play. 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.440 I've never played any golf over there, and I'm dying too. 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:07.480 Every time I went over to Europe, it was always 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.840 for music and it kind of took it, took center stage, 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.200 and all my spare time would be doing interviews or 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:15.600 getting wherever you were going, and I didn't have time 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:17.720 to play. But I'm gonna go over there someday on 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.880 a just a golf trip with somebody's. 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.639 And you lived through the revolution from blades to perimeter, 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:26.760 waiting on the all of this. 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.160 Yeah, you can go in my garage and track back 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:34.880 the last sixty five years of golf technology, and it's 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.880 you know, it's amazing what they can do now. The 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:39.680 old guys, you say, you have to dig it out 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:41.359 of the dirt, you just have to figure it out 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.680 by beating balls and stuff. But now, with the technology, 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:46.960 then they can help you a whole lot more than 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:48.120 they ever could when we were young. 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.919 Now, when he passed, it came out that you were 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.400 friends with Arnold Palmer. How do you become friends with 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:55.160 Arnold Palmer? 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:57.440 I don't know, It's just my good fortune. You know, 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.560 I played with him times. One of my favorite stories 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:05.200 is I was playing golf with Arnold in a pro 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:09.160 am and we played several times together before. And you know, 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.920 when you're playing with somebody like that, it's it's pretty 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.440 it's pretty nerve wracking. But anyway, we had played all 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:17.560 day long, and neither one of us had said one 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.840 word about what we were shooting. You know, we just 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.720 played and but I knew that he was four under par, 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.200 and I think he knew that I was four under 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.320 par playing the last hole, and we're playing this last hole. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:30.919 It's part for it. 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.080 I hit my ball up there about fifteen twenty feet 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.560 from the hole, and he hit his up there about 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.560 twelve fifteen feet and I hit my putt and missed. 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.000 He looked at me and marked his ball, knocked his 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.360 end and went, I got you. I said, okay, my 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:45.720 favorite beating I ever took. 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.520 Okay. What most people don't know is the pros play 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.600 a totally different game. The way they worked the ball, 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.000 et cetera. What can you tell us about that? 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.520 Well, you know, they a lot of those A lot 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.400 of those guys told me that they thought I had 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.360 enough talent to play professionally if I'd have applied to 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:06.560 golf what I applied to music. 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:07.160 But I didn't. 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.120 I didn't apply to golf what I did to music. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:14.760 And so that was always a pretty neat thing to 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:16.919 have happen, is to play with one of your heroes 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.359 and play well. I got to play with Jack Nicholas 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.760 one time, and it was the same kind of thing. 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:24.520 We got to the last hole and he beat me 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.960 by a couple of shots. But just to get to 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.600 hang with him and occasionally get one of them. Is 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:31.080 the best feeling in the world. 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.000 So who else in the music world is a scratch 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:36.320 golfer a good golfer. 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:38.680 God, there's plenty of guys that play well. 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:38.880 You know. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.359 Glenn Campbell was a great golfer, you know, back in 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.920 the day. And Alice Cooper played a lot of golf. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.120 And you know this, when when I found out his 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:50.040 real name was Vince and that he played golf, I 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.000 was a huge Alice Cooper fan, you know, And and 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.000 funny thing, you know, all these years later, not too 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:57.640 long ago, I got to play guitar on an Alice 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.280 Cooper record. That was thrill of a lifetime because I 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.040 played a lot of his songs in my garage bands 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.120 as a kid. And we have a nice friendship. And 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:09.440 it's amazing how many friends I have that are musical, 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.680 people that are musical, but because we both share the 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.920 love of golf, that's where I found myself. Meeting them 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.359 was more centered around a golf event or a tournament 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:19.919 or what have you. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.800 Well, at this point in time, are most of your 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.279 friends in the music world or do you have friends 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.520 you grew up with their friends from country club. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:30.960 Yeah, I kind of got a little bit of both. 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.040 You know, I'm a little bit of a chameleon in that. 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:37.520 You know, I have a gaggle of friends that play golf. 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.040 I had a gaggle of friends for a long time 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.120 that played basketball. I had a gaggle of friends at 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.599 all played guitar. I got guitar nerd buddies and we 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.960 go shopping try to find old guitars. And you know, 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.200 I never met a stranger, and pretty easy to know 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.640 and pretty easy to like, I think hopefully. And so 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.000 I've kind of gone through life just being open and 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.719 willing to just about anything or anybody. 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.320 Well, are you like Jerry McGuire, where if you're sitting 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.640 home alone looking at the four walls, you got to 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.640 make contact, You got to get together with somebody. Or 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.920 are you more introspective if you're you're good when people 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.760 are around. But do you need to be around people? 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.919 Not necessarily? You know, Amy, my wife, Amy and I 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:22.039 are both generally okay with being alone. You know, I'm 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.159 comfortable in my own skin, and so is she. And 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:26.599 we have to divide and conquer a lot of times, 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:27.960 and she'll go to her and I'll go to her 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.080 and we'll both travel and be gone. And it works great, 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:35.200 you know, because she's totally okay with with being the 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:36.520 only one in the room, and so am I. 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:39.200 So what do you do when you're the only person 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:39.680 in the room. 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:44.880 I'm a surfer, A channel surf, a channel surf. I'll 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:49.159 play the guitar. Now with these damn telephones, you know, 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.960 you'll sit there and scroll, and I'm finding a lot 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.640 of really neat music, you know, just by scrolling different things. 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.640 I found a kid not too long ago. I don't 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.880 know if you're familiar with this name, Lamont Landers. 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:03.479 Have you heard of him? No? I haven't. 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:08.000 And it's funny because I found him and he he's 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.080 a kind of a soul singer, you know, throw back 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:14.240 to an old soul singer. And he's just really redheaded, 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.600 white kid from Alabama and he sounds just like Al 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:21.360 Green when he sings. And I'm just kind of it 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.640 doesn't make sense, you know. You look at this dude 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.160 and then this voice comes out of him and he 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.560 can't believe that it's real, but it is. And I 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.120 tracked him down. I was such a fan. I asked 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.560 him to come and sing on one of my songs 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.680 on the next record that's coming out in May next 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.880 EP and he brought his mom with him and he said, well, 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.240 when I was little, my mom brought me to one 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.080 of your concerts, and you were one of the first 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.280 concerts I ever saw. So I made a new friend. 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:52.320 And I love that, you know. I love discovering young 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.840 people that are talented. And you know, when I was 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.480 the young kid, you know, I had so many examples 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.720 of my heroes and the people I looked up to 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.200 reaching out to me and being kind to me and 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.720 being uh supportive of me and inclusive of me, and 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.000 all those things made an impact, you know, And I 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.640 try to do it to the kids that are coming along. 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.280 If I see somebody I think's great, and I'm I'm 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.400 gonna be a big champion for him, route him on 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.640 and no, it feels like the only way to be. 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.840 Do you remember exactly how you found about just. 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.440 Traveling, I mean not traveling, but just traveling on the 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.600 on the phone, and and he'd like, he'd say, he'd 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.280 do something like you see him posts to go. Okay, 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:37.400 imagine if Sweet Home, Alabama was old soul and he 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.400 turned it and oh yeah, I've seen this yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.280 and they they did. He played uh he played the 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.880 Apollo Theater not long ago and just killed the crowd. 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.559 They went nuts for this kid, you know, And and 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.520 he comes out with his red hair and everybody's going 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:53.960 what and the hell is going on? And then he 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.720 started singing and everybody was all about it and standing 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.280 up and cheering him on. And I just think he's, 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:00.640 you know, really talented. 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.199 So when you're on the phone, you know, there's many 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.880 different platforms. Do you go on Instagram, Wheels and TikTok? 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.720 Yeah, I'm not a TikTok guy, but I'll get on 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:14.080 Instagram and Facebook. And it's hard now there's so many 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:19.920 things on there that are's such fabrication, you know, whether 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.280 it's me and I'm you know, I have stage four cancer, 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.800 I do this, blah blah, and you see all this stuff. 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:26.920 It's just so so. 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.520 Silly and and all that. But you kind of got 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:32.880 to wade through that, and you never know what you're 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.280 gonna find. What's going to be the next little thing 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.400 that pops up. And I know that when you stop 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.079 on something, then it starts giving you more and more 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.720 and more of that that same thing that you stopped 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.480 and and looked at. But it to me, it's kind 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.199 of it's a modern day television. 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:47.960 You know. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:49.440 You get on there and you look around and you 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.080 find guitar players that you think are great, or you 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.800 find a singer you think is great, or songwriter you 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.200 think is great. And I've discovered quite a few people. 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.920 You know, it's kind of fun to kind of be 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:03.840 in the loop on some of these young people that 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:04.920 people are crazy about. 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.640 What do you think about people I'm your contemporary. What 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.559 do you think about people our age who are so 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:16.079 social media averse, who hate these platforms. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.120 Well, here's the funny thing. I've never sent a text, 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.120 So I am not really you know, gen z or 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.040 whatever you want to call it, an hip on all 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.360 the on all this technology. I don't know how to 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:30.920 run it. I don't know how to get on it. 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.000 My buddy Matt here takes care of the studio. He 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.280 has to come solve all my problems when the phone 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.680 doesn't work and I can't fix any of it. 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.520 But I don't care. 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.080 You know, I'm not a I'm not the kind of 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.199 guy that projects what I think other people should should do. 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:50.560 You know, if you want to sit on your phone 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.400 all day and text and stay stay connected. And I'm 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.960 not going to post what I had for lunch. I'm 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.320 not gonna you know what I mean. And and so 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.319 I remember years ago I met a young girl at 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:06.079 at a restaurant and she said, you're Vince Gill, aren't you. 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:07.680 And I said yeah. She goes, you mind if we 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.440 get a picture? And I said, no problem. And we 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.520 took the picture and she said we have a mutual friend. 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.600 And I said, oh, who's that. She told me, oh, yeah, 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.559 I know who you're talking about. She goes, you can 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.320 text him that picture if you want. I said, I 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.360 don't text. And she said, well, I can show you how. 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.840 I said, well, it's not a matter of knowing how, 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.760 it's a matter of desire. I don't want to, you know. 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.959 So I people, all my friends know that if they 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.040 text me, I'm going to call them back, you know. 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.120 I like the I like that personal connection of a voice, 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.120 maybe more so than I do the written word. And 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.599 hard to kind of convey certain things in in a 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.680 text or written word. That if you're talking to somebody 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.680 and you hear the sense of humor, you hear whatever, 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.160 it's easier to to text whatever the hell they are saying. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:51.599 And so I'm. 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:53.760 I'm not not all about it, but I don't you know, 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.040 I don't give a rip if somebody wants to live 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:57.240 their life on that phone. 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.360 But you have kids, A lot of kids not only 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:03.960 won't talk on the phone, they won't let you leave 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.800 a voicemail, exactly right. 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.080 And I remember I caught our kids one night texting 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:10.440 each other at the dinner table. 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:13.040 I said, this is pretty weird. 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.360 And they all know that if they want to talk 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:17.720 to me, they have to call me. No, I'm not 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.479 going to respond to a text instead a text. 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.199 And what about the reverse? If you want to get 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.080 a hold of them, I call them and they'll pick up. 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:25.520 They either have to pick up or they don't have 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.200 to talk to me. It works works great either way. Okay, 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:33.200 so you're surfing on your phone and you find something 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.520 good used to be there was a threshold someone had 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.840 a deal with the record labeled someone should not. Now 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:46.120 they're all these acts, you know. Sometimes I'm listening, like 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.400 to these stations on serious There's one called XMU. It's 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:53.000 a college rock station, and I say, this is great, 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.200 and then I say, am I the only person who 0:12:55.280 --> 0:13:02.560 ever heard this, it could be so you get exposed 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.880 to all these things. What is it that twriggers you 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:07.360 to reach out and try to help? 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.080 Well, I think just if it connects to me. You know, 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:15.600 I've always been a responder of music. You know, I 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.640 love what music makes me feel. I really have always 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.960 been drawn to the melancholy side of music. I like 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.880 sad songs. I like great singers, I like great musicians. 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.680 You know, when I was young, I didn't really set 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.080 out to be an artist, you know, I set out 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.560 to be a guitar player, and I set out to 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.160 be one of those guys that got called to play 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.160 on people's records and be a session guy. And that's 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:42.000 what I did in those early years when I was 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.000 trying to figure it out and get to the next place, 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.920 whatever was in store for me. And so over my 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.880 life of these past fifty plus years, I've worked on 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.960 over a thousand artists records, as a background singer, as 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.560 a guitar player, as a producer, as a songwriter, in 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.400 whatever shape or form, you know. And I just was 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.520 always drawn to wanting to be in the band, just 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:06.560 wanting to be a part of it. I didn't have 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.120 to be the focal point. And with that, you know, 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:14.880 I just tried to become a good server of songs 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:18.360 of sorts, you know. In that what I wanted to 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.840 do when I came into a situation was to make 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.280 the record that you'd made. If I was going to 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:24.680 sing on it or play on it, I wanted to 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.160 make it better, you know. And I've always been kind 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.480 of pushed to be to make something great, not perfect. 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.400 You know, a lot of people sometimes if you're all 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.400 up in the weeds with minutia and all this stuff, 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.600 they think you're a perfectionist. And I'm not a perfectionist. 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.360 I'm a realist and I just want it to be great. 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.400 That's all I'm trying to accomplish. 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:50.560 Okay, tell me more about liking melancholy songs. I don't know. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.720 They stir more emotion up in me. You know. 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:55.600 My father used to sing a song to me when 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.120 I was a little boy, and it always made me cry. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.880 Every time he sang it didn't make me cry. It's 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.200 called Old Shep if you've never heard, it's an old 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.520 folk song. It's about a boy and his dog and 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.200 they grow up together. They're best friends. The dog saves 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.520 him from drowning dog saves him from all kinds of peril. 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.760 And at the end of the dog, at the end 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.400 of the song, the dog grows old and the guy 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.720 has to shoot his beloved animal. And it's the most 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.280 soul crushing song you've ever heard in your life. And 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:26.840 my dad would sing this to me when I was 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.320 a little boy, and I think probably more for meanness 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.360 than anything else. But we'd be having you know, we'd 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.920 be sitting down and playing and having jam sessions, and 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.640 I'm loving life. I'm playing with my dad and he's 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.600 you know, responsive to me and helping me learn a 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.800 little bit. And he's finally he'd say it's time for 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:46.880 you to go to bed. I said, man, can't we 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:48.840 play one more song? He said no, I told you, 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.080 Now do what I say. And I go to bed 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.000 and I said, come on, Toddy's just one more song, 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.720 and he starts singing. When I was a lad and 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.480 old ship pup, I'd run to my room as fast 0:15:58.480 --> 0:15:59.960 as I could, you know, because I knew I was 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.400 gonna cry. And I don't know what it is, but 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.720 I think the emotion of music is what I respond 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.880 to most. And I'm not I'm not impressed. As much 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.000 as I am moved by music. That's what I'm going 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.840 to the music for is to be moved and have 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:18.040 it take me someplace. 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:18.840 You know. 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.240 I remember so many of the first records I ever got. 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.200 Last year, I think it was years year and a 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.520 half ago. I think it was when they had a 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.960 memorial for Jimmy Buffett out in LA and the Eagles 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.480 were going to back up Paul McCartney, you know, and 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.360 I was in the band, and so I was singing 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.160 the song for us to learn it at soundcheck and 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.680 it was let it Be. And it dawned on me 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.240 as I'm singing it, I said, this is the song 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.760 that was playing the first time I ever had a 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:47.880 slow dance with a girl. 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:50.920 Wow, And it was so cool. 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.600 And then we're getting ready to do the show and 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.120 we're doing soundcheck and Paul's not there yet. 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:57.600 So I tell the crew. 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.320 They said, go ahead and sing it, and I go, okay, 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:00.960 But if Paul comes, I don't want to be singing 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.760 his song if he shows up, and so lo and behold. 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:06.600 I told the crew, I said, tell me if he 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:08.919 shows up, and I look over and I'm in the 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.439 middle of singing let it be. And there he is 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.720 sitting there with his arms folded, you know, and I'm going, oh, no, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:16.679 you know. And he comes over and he gives me 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.199 this big hug and he said, man, I believe you 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.359 sing that song better than I do. And I said, oh, no, 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.280 that's not true. We know that's not true, but thank you. 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:26.520 And I told him, I said, here's why this song 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.040 is so special. I said, that's the song that played 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:30.880 when I had my first slow dance with a girl. 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:32.719 And he winked and he goes, well, I hope it 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.760 worked out for you, and I said, no, I was 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.320 in seventh grade, but it was still a pretty great 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.119 moment in my life. And to look over there and 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.919 see him playing the piano and singing that song is like, 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.639 you couldn't you couldn't dream that up in a million 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.480 years when you're that kid trying to learn songs, trying 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.600 to figure out how to play a sea chord and 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.080 the G chord and all that stuff. And so I 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:58.840 am beyond blessed and beyond lucky and all those things. 0:17:58.880 --> 0:17:59.040 You know. 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:00.440 I look at it with. 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.800 A complete kind of unbelievable response to it all, not 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.240 like I expected any of it. I don't know if 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:10.920 i'd have done it, if I'd have known how it 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.720 turned out, you know. I like just discovering what happened. 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:16.720 I like finding out who was on the other end 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:21.520 of a phone call. Remember years ago, I got a 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.760 phone call and this was at a period of time 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.240 where they were kind of they were kind of stopping 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.960 playing my records on current country radio, and I knew 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:31.240 I wasn't going to have hits anymore. 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.480 So I'm kind of in this period. 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.960 What I didn't know what was next in the phone 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.400 rang and it was another Englishman that was Eric Clapton. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.240 He said, Vince, he said, I'm having it. He said, 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.399 this is Eric Clapton. I'm going, yeah, sure it is. 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.639 Who's yanking my chain? Who's branking me? 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:49.520 You know? And he's laughed. 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.720 He goes, no, it really is me. And he said 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.240 I'm calling because I'm doing a guitar festival in Dallas. 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.640 This has been twenty two years ago now something like that, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.360 And he said I want you to come. He said, 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.280 I'm only inviting guitar players I like, And just hearing 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:10.159 those words from him was like this validation and affirmation 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.560 of a lifetime of trying to do it, you know, 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.199 And what was beautiful was he saw me That's what 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.480 I'd always intended to be, was just a musician. He 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.359 saw me as a serious musician and invited me and 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:25.840 I got to go to most all those crossroads guitar 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.640 festivals and see and play with all my heroes. 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:33.520 It's unbelievable. Let's stay with the melanchol you mentioned Clapton 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:38.199 the second Queen album, Disraeli Gears second side opens with 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.720 tales of brave Ulysses. There's a certain darkness. It's like 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.679 I watch a lot of streaming television. You watch the 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.760 British shows. They just have a dark, melancholic feel. And 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:54.719 I don't know, maybe it's a cinematographer, but let me 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.359 try to slice and dices a little bit. Hey, A 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.040 lot of that when we were growing up was based 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.800 in alienation. To what degreed do you find yourself as 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:07.080 an alienated person? 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:12.800 Probably not much, you know, I think you wind up 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.800 having your tribe. You know, you have your people that 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.240 tend to like the same things you do, like the 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:23.960 same music you do. And even going back to I mean, 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.560 I've five or six years ago I lost my oldest 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.000 and best friend, a guy named Benny Garcia, who we 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:31.639 met in the summer of sixth grade, and he was 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.679 the first musician friend I ever made. We played in 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.200 our first garage bands together and played our first school 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.919 dances together, and he went on this journey with me 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.320 throughout all my successful years and as a guitar tech. 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:49.320 He was a great musician, but he chose the path 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:51.760 of being a guitar tech for me. So I got 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.480 to go do all of this stuff with my oldest 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.199 friend by my side. It was the greatest gift I 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.240 could have ever gotten, you know, And I think we 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.040 were We were such great friends because we were both 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.560 drawn to so much of the same stuff. And so 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:12.040 I I feel like, you know, conversation, music, songs, all 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.959 those things. You find your folks that are drawn to 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:18.000 it too, and that's where you land. 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.480 This is you know, the guy passed, And that's much 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:32.720 more important than the question I'm gonna asked, but I 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.719 got to ask it. Anyway, you hire your friend, how 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:37.120 do you decide what to pay them? 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:41.239 Well, what everybody else got, you know, I was I 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.400 have a long history because I was a side man, 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:47.000 because I was in a band, because of all of 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.240 those things, I took care of my people. You know, 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.359 in my heyday this is unheard of. But in my 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.560 heyday of doing really well and playing arenas and selling 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:59.160 out places, I had to deal with all my guys. 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:02.480 I said, I'll have a bonus structure, a bonus system 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:06.119 in place that if I do better, you will too. 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:11.159 And it created loyalty, it created longevity. It just it 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.440 did a great thing for everybody. Everybody felt like, hey, 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.160 we're all in this together. If it goes better, I'm 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.119 going to do better. I was never and that's the 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:23.439 way I was treated. When I played with Rodney Rodney Crowell, 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.560 I played guitar for him and played guitar for Roseanne Cash, 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.800 and they took great care of the musicians. They were 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:30.720 respectful of them. 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:32.480 And I think. 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:36.480 Nashville has probably always had a hard time doing that 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:38.760 and that there wasn't that much money in it to 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.359 begin with, so everybody had to go maybe as bare 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:46.600 bones as they could. And oftentimes I would tell a musician, 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.200 I said, this is what I'm making, this is all 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.719 I have, but you're entitled to a fair portion of it. 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:57.200 And so it just it was the way I experienced 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.920 my career and my life as as working for somebody else. 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.919 And it's the way that I lived my life as 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:07.760 a session player. As a session singer, there was a 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:13.600 union amount of money that was paid to you if 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:17.639 you were a union hand, and so it just made sense, 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:19.760 you know, to treat people better than you. 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:23.720 Maybe you should, Okay, going back a couple of minutes, 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:28.840 you talked about the period when the hits evaporated. How 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:33.680 did you metabolize that? How did you handle it emotionally? Well, 0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:36.000 it was easy in that I knew it was coming. 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:37.119 You know. 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:39.080 I tell every kid that comes to town and starts 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:42.040 hitting the lick and starts kind of getting fired up, 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:43.760 I always tell them, I said, now listen to me, 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:46.880 and listen good. I said, they quit playing Elvis Presley, 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.320 and they'll quit playing you just be ready for it. 0:23:50.760 --> 0:23:53.800 And it's kind of been the truth. You know, nobody 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:56.919 survived it their whole career. There's been a period of 0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:00.160 time where somebody caught fire and stayed on fire. 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:02.280 For a pretty good while. And then it's the way 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:03.359 it should be. You know. 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:05.880 It has to evolve and the next generation has to 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:08.040 take the mantle and go and do what they want 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:09.439 to do and be who they want to be and 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.679 write the songs they want to sing, and play like 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:16.239 they want to play, and it's the way it should be. 0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:19.280 So it was never it was never much of an issue. 0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:21.680 And the other thing that was good was I had 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:24.840 plenty of years of struggling trying to be an artist. 0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:26.440 You know, in the early eighties, I got a record 0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:28.840 deal and then tell people, so I couldn't really prove 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:31.439 it because nobody had those records. But I stayed with 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:34.439 it and hung in there, and then finally I started 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:37.160 having some hits. So I had just about as many 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:44.240 years of I wouldn't say failing, but struggling. That prepared 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:47.119 me for the years of success. I would watch people 0:24:47.880 --> 0:24:51.560 react to their success and oftentimes go, I don't ever 0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:53.800 want to be like that. I don't ever want to 0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:55.840 respond like that. I don't ever want to say something 0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:58.439 like that. And so with that, I just kind of 0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:00.800 took the good with the bad and and let my 0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:04.680 ears lead me more than anything else. And I always 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:07.280 felt like my ears have never lied to me. And 0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:09.560 if I go back and listen to those early records, 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:11.679 I can go, yeah, I can see why they weren't successful. 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:14.800 They weren't that great, and be honest enough with myself, 0:25:15.480 --> 0:25:18.399 be honest enough to know I'm probably writing better songs 0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:20.520 today than I did in my heyday when I was 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:23.720 having a lot of success, you know. And it's just 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:27.040 all in there. It all kind of you know, forms 0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:30.119 my opinion and forms my thought process into how I 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:30.880 want to react. 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:31.199 You know. 0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:37.880 It's it's not easy to to react to struggling. It's 0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:39.320 easy to react to success. 0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:40.040 That's not hard. 0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:43.320 But I learned a whole lot more about struggling than 0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:44.359 I did by succeeding. 0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:49.119 Are you as even tempered as you come across or 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:51.560 do you get angry and we just don't see it. 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:54.919 I'm a hot head on the golf course, you know, 0:25:55.320 --> 0:25:59.800 And that was it was interesting. That's the reputation I've 0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:02.960 I've earned and deserve, you know, as a club breaker 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:05.639 and a club thrower and really oh yeah, yeller and 0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:10.480 screamer and all that stuff. And it's my whole life 0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:12.680 was kind of that way. And I think it's all 0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:15.439 kind of comes from an insecurity kind of a place 0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:18.120 in that you want to show people you're better than 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:22.359 what you just did, so insecurely you reach out and 0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:25.800 strike out and cost yourself beat the club into the 0:26:25.840 --> 0:26:28.600 ground whatever you do. And I was the same musically. 0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:31.280 If I wasn't doing it to a level that I wanted, 0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:34.840 I would get frustrated. So I do have a great temper. 0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:38.120 It's legendary. And I was playing golf with this guy 0:26:38.119 --> 0:26:40.520 one time who's a sports psychologist for a lot of 0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:45.840 tour players, and we're playing and we played a few holes, 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:48.240 and so finally I looked at him and said, okay, Doc, 0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:50.919 I said, shoot me straight. What do you think? He 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:53.320 started laughing. He goes, oh, yeah, you got a good reputation. 0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:53.760 He goes. 0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:56.440 All your buddies, all your tour player buddies, they all 0:26:56.720 --> 0:26:59.080 give you down the road about about getting mad and stuff. 0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:01.000 He said, But let me tell you. I'm going to 0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:02.919 tell you some stuff that you've probably never heard in 0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:03.800 your life before. 0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:05.359 He said. 0:27:05.359 --> 0:27:07.520 First of all, all those guys are way worse than 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:10.119 you've ever been with getting mad and losing it and 0:27:10.119 --> 0:27:12.560 all that said, they have learned to control it because 0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:15.919 that's their job, that's their workplace, and it's detrimental to 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:19.880 them if they don't, you know, act accordingly, he said, 0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:23.040 But you, he said, you're different. He said, first of all, 0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:27.000 the reason you're successfulcessful because you have that burn in 0:27:27.040 --> 0:27:28.840 you to be your best and do your best and 0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:31.879 have a expectation that it's at a very high level, 0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:34.200 he said. 0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:35.840 He said, then, think about what you do for a living. 0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:36.200 He said. 0:27:36.200 --> 0:27:38.879 You stand up in front of people, you play, you sing, 0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:42.080 and all you ever receive is adelation. He said, that's 0:27:42.080 --> 0:27:44.600 so abnormal. There's nothing more abnormal than that. 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:45.840 He said. 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:48.800 So I'm going to tell you, and probably only you, 0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:51.040 that I think is really healthy for you to beat 0:27:51.080 --> 0:27:53.360 yourself up. He said, if you need to go off 0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:56.280 in the woods, break a club and call yourself dirty names, 0:27:56.320 --> 0:27:58.160 go ahead and do it. So it's going to keep 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:02.840 you level and amy. When we first met, she kind 0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:05.280 of had the same comment to me, which was kind 0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:07.040 of life changing. I don't get I don't get too 0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:10.159 uptight anymore. I'm sixty nine and I don't, you know, 0:28:10.359 --> 0:28:13.960 kind of lost the ability to care that much about 0:28:13.960 --> 0:28:14.960 what I shoot. 0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:15.840 And uh. 0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:18.320 We were playing one day and we weren't married yet, 0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:20.720 and I hit a shot and I was unhappy and 0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:22.320 I broke my three wood when I stuck it in 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:25.680 the bag. She turned around and was shocked, and I said, man, 0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:27.480 I'm sorry. I get a little lamped up at this game. 0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:30.000 She goes, Oh, that doesn't surprise me. I said, what 0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:34.560 do you mean? She goes, well, she said, you know 0:28:34.680 --> 0:28:37.480 I'm crazy about you? And I go, yeah, vice versa, 0:28:37.520 --> 0:28:42.120 And she said, who laughs harder at chokes than you do? 0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:45.480 That's when stuff's funny. Who laughs harder at you? I said, nobody? 0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:48.280 I said, who loses it in front of the whole world? 0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:50.920 You're the town crier. I see you fall apart all 0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:54.160 the time, giving a speech or singing a song. She said, 0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:55.960 And now you've hit a golf shot and you're mad. 0:28:56.760 --> 0:28:59.560 She said, you can't control any of your emotions. How 0:28:59.600 --> 0:29:01.960 would you ever expect to be able to just control one? 0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:05.880 I went, nobody's ever said that to me. It was 0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:08.440 so beautiful and so profound, and it's kind of helped 0:29:08.480 --> 0:29:11.080 me let go of a lot of that. But yeah, 0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:14.040 I'm pretty easy going, you know. And then you know, 0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:17.200 if you don't have a temper, you're not probably ever 0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:20.520 going to accomplish much if you don't get a little 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:20.959 worked up. 0:29:21.160 --> 0:29:26.480 Well, Amy has your number. But does that temper ever 0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:29.800 come out in everyday life? Not too much. 0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:34.600 We have the we have the sweetest relationship and it 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:38.240 never never gets never gets weird. You know, it never 0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:41.080 gets you know, when we first got together, you know, 0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:43.440 we got getting ready to get into it about something, 0:29:43.480 --> 0:29:46.080 and I just said, hey, I said, before you say something, 0:29:46.120 --> 0:29:48.680 I said, just let's just take a minute and be still. 0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:50.400 She goes, what do you mean. I said, well, I 0:29:50.440 --> 0:29:52.080 know you're mad at me and I deserve it. Blah 0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:54.240 blah blah. You're going to say something that's going to 0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:56.600 trigger me, and then I'm going to say something. And 0:29:56.680 --> 0:29:58.680 I said, and you're not going to like what I'm 0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:01.840 going to say back. And and I said, why don't 0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:04.240 we just let a moment pass and we'll talk about 0:30:04.240 --> 0:30:06.640 this in a little bit. I've done all the about 0:30:06.680 --> 0:30:09.120 all the yelling and screaming I want to do in 0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:12.000 a relationship. And so it's kind of a pattern we 0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:14.920 got going, and we we don't square off much. We 0:30:15.040 --> 0:30:19.000 got a pretty pretty peaceful stretch. Have you ever been 0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:22.880 to therapy? No, even the therapist. We have a family 0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:26.400 therapist and all of our kids go to and and uh, 0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:29.320 she pulled me aside and she goes, I said, what 0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:32.240 about me? And she goes, You're fine, You're kind of 0:30:32.240 --> 0:30:35.120 a She says, you're kind of a you're the solid 0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:38.040 foundation for this whole bunch. She said, I see that 0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:40.160 in you, and she said. 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:40.640 You're you're good. 0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:42.360 And I told her, I said, look, I don't I 0:30:42.400 --> 0:30:45.360 don't have any angst about the past. I don't want 0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:47.840 to try to fix my relationship with my father. I 0:30:47.840 --> 0:30:50.040 don't want to try to fix this. And that, I said. 0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:53.160 I'm just I'm kind of okay with being exactly who 0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:56.520 I am and uh, prey straight ahead. And so she 0:30:56.640 --> 0:30:57.720 told me I was good. 0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:03.720 Okay, let's go back to the anger. You said, you 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:06.600 said two things. Want to focus on this. You said, 0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:10.960 I want to prove myself. What do we know? First, 0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:13.600 the average person has no idea how hard it is 0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:16.840 to make it. Talent is in most fifty percent, it's 0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:21.960 unbelievably hard. So when you get your chance, you want 0:31:21.960 --> 0:31:26.440 to deliver. Or you also might say, by luck, I'm 0:31:26.480 --> 0:31:30.160 here and I want to prove myself. How much of 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:31.800 that is involved? 0:31:32.160 --> 0:31:34.880 Well, I think every time I sing a song, every 0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:38.320 time I play a song, I've never phoned it in. 0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:43.080 I've never nonchalantly just gone through the motions. I want 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:44.880 to play and sing. Every time I play and sing. 0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:48.320 The best I've ever done it, you know, And that's 0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:51.760 I think because of the gift I've been given, that's 0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:57.280 what it deserves. And so you know, I'll sit here 0:31:57.280 --> 0:32:00.720 in the studio and play something good. I said, what 0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:02.760 could be better? I think it could be better. If 0:32:02.800 --> 0:32:05.120 I played two less notes, it might speak more. It 0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:09.000 might say more. And so away I go, you know, 0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:13.000 and I I I'm sure that there's a part of 0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:18.760 this that's an unrealistic expectation. But it has to get 0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:20.479 it has to get my full attention. 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:21.680 I have to. 0:32:22.080 --> 0:32:25.040 I have to speak up on every single thing, because 0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:31.560 I find music a great place for democracy. In the 0:32:31.600 --> 0:32:34.280 studio with five, six, seven guys, you're all in there 0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:37.480 with the common goal of making a song great. You 0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:39.479 don't care who gets all the attention. You don't get here, 0:32:39.560 --> 0:32:42.840 who gets the to be the loudest, who gets to 0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:45.320 be noticed the most? And if you'll just serve the song, 0:32:46.280 --> 0:32:48.160 you'll serve each other and listen to each other and 0:32:48.240 --> 0:32:51.800 let everybody shine. That to me is what democracy was 0:32:51.840 --> 0:32:55.320 intended to mean. And I get to live that most 0:32:55.360 --> 0:32:59.600 of my life in this environment, and it's powerful, you know, 0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:05.960 because everybody's in it for the same reason. Serve that song, 0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:08.120 make the song the best it can be, Let the 0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:13.480 song shine, not yourself. And it's really it's a great 0:33:13.520 --> 0:33:15.720 experience together with people that. 0:33:15.680 --> 0:33:18.240 Are like minded and. 0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:21.120 Listen to each other and play well together. And it's 0:33:21.160 --> 0:33:24.520 so much fun to watch something turn up, to see 0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:27.400 something be born, you know, and then have a life 0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:28.600 that gets to live forever. 0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:34.480 Okay, you were talking about your goal was not perfection. Okay, 0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:38.760 you know music is not digital zeros in ones. It's 0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:43.520 organic or at least the kind of music we're talking about. Ay, 0:33:44.280 --> 0:33:47.200 do you know when it's magic? And is that what 0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:49.280 you're searching for? Let me just go a little bit deeper. 0:33:49.600 --> 0:33:53.120 You're playing with professionals in Nashville. They can nail it. Okay, 0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:56.040 you can say this is your song, But are you 0:33:56.200 --> 0:33:58.600 searching for that moment when the hair starts to go 0:33:58.680 --> 0:34:00.239 up on your arms? Well? 0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:04.120 Yeah, And the great thing is is everybody can feel it, 0:34:04.920 --> 0:34:09.120 and everybody knows it, and everybody knows when it's finally 0:34:09.160 --> 0:34:13.880 got the the groove, the pocket, the field, everything. 0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:15.640 That that stirs up in emotion. 0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:18.480 You know, a lot of things that are just flat 0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:23.240 lined perfect are not emotional, you know, And so that's 0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:26.239 I think what everybody's trying to go trying to do 0:34:27.160 --> 0:34:30.560 is I want to play something. It inspires the piano 0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:33.320 play to play the next thing, And what the piano 0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:35.640 player plays inspires the other guitar player to play the 0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:40.440 next thing. And that's what you're kind of always going for. 0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:42.319 You know, don't ever take me out of the dance. 0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:46.279 Don't ever take my attention away from a great singer 0:34:46.360 --> 0:34:47.200 singing a great song. 0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:47.560 You know. 0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:51.240 That's the point of it all is to serve that 0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:55.080 that that that process. And when somebody I heard somebody say, 0:34:55.120 --> 0:34:57.160 don't whatever you do, let the main thing be the 0:34:57.200 --> 0:34:59.239 main thing, stay out of the way. 0:35:00.400 --> 0:35:05.080 Okay. So let's assume you're recording in the studio and 0:35:05.160 --> 0:35:07.360 you have to your guitar player. You have to do 0:35:07.400 --> 0:35:10.279 with solo? Do you always make it up on the 0:35:10.320 --> 0:35:12.400 spot or do you think about it in advance. 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:17.200 It's I would say, it's a combination of a lot 0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:21.480 of things. When I'm playing, what in my head is 0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:26.319 going on is how would I sing this? So I'm 0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:29.680 letting one thing that I can do inform another thing 0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:32.040 that I can do. So when I'm trying to play 0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:34.360 a solo, I go, okay, how would I phrase this? 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:37.880 How would I sing this? And then when I'm singing, 0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:41.799 I asked myself, Okay, how would I play this? And 0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:46.800 each one informs the other. And once again, you're trying 0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:49.200 to say the most with the least. So if I 0:35:49.239 --> 0:35:51.719 play something and I like it, and I go, well, 0:35:51.719 --> 0:35:54.200 there's three too many notes in there. What if I 0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:57.520 pull those out and make those make that space, then 0:35:57.560 --> 0:36:00.319 all of a sudden leave room for something else. There's 0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:03.320 something someone else did. That's what I'm always doing guitar 0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:07.160 solos at the end of the process. So everybody's played 0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:10.680 all their parts and played fills and played pocket things 0:36:10.719 --> 0:36:14.080 and whatnot, and I dance around it, you know, and 0:36:14.120 --> 0:36:17.040 I'm trying to listen and let all those other things 0:36:17.880 --> 0:36:21.279 still do what they were intended to do. And we 0:36:21.360 --> 0:36:23.960 said it before, but if you'll, you know, stay out 0:36:23.960 --> 0:36:27.520 of the way and let everybody shine, then then it's 0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:28.080 a home run. 0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:34.960 Okay. You talked about the process, the democracy, etc. You know, 0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:39.560 Back in the old Mono days, everybody played it once. Certainly, 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:42.600 by time we're hitting the seventy sixteen to twenty four tracks, 0:36:43.120 --> 0:36:46.600 you're building it track by track. A how do you 0:36:46.760 --> 0:36:49.280 do it? And B? When you build track by track, 0:36:50.000 --> 0:36:52.840 how do you maintain the organic effect? 0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:57.680 Well, I mean the technology is obviously evolved. You know, 0:36:57.800 --> 0:37:00.200 they've been making country records now for one hundred years 0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:02.279 and they don't make them today like they used to. 0:37:02.440 --> 0:37:04.880 They don't do anything like they used to do. And 0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:09.440 I think technology is a fantastic thing if you use 0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:12.920 it for the right reason. You know, it's all a 0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:18.120 matter of that. And so once again, technology and whether 0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:21.680 it's in tune or you know, everybody complains about auto tuning, 0:37:22.719 --> 0:37:25.120 and I said, you're not making the singer any more interesting. 0:37:25.480 --> 0:37:28.200 You're just making the singer more in tune. And that's 0:37:28.239 --> 0:37:31.520 all you're doing. The singer's voice is either interesting or 0:37:31.560 --> 0:37:35.040 it isn't. To me, when I hear music, they may 0:37:35.040 --> 0:37:37.040 be able to sing the phone book, but if they 0:37:37.040 --> 0:37:38.800 don't have a great song to sing, I'm not interested 0:37:38.840 --> 0:37:41.120 in hearing the phone book be sung. You know, I'm 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:43.200 interested in hearing a story. I'm interested in hearing a 0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:46.520 song and see where it goes, where it starts, where 0:37:46.560 --> 0:37:49.960 it ends, and all those things are a big part 0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:53.480 of it. But you know, nowadays, when we're in here 0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:57.040 work and you can't make a mistake, which is kind 0:37:57.040 --> 0:38:01.120 of kind of nice. You know, you go back and 0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:02.919 in the old days you punch it in on the track, 0:38:02.960 --> 0:38:04.560 and you punch it at the wrong time. You could 0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:07.319 ruin a take, you could ruin a whole record. And 0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:10.040 now you just undo and you try again, and you 0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:13.600 try again, and and like I said, you're just trying 0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:17.520 to They say about that music that it's like art 0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:21.160 at some point, it's never it's never finished, it's only abandoned. 0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:23.200 And I like that. 0:38:23.320 --> 0:38:25.560 I like that thought, you know, I like I like 0:38:25.640 --> 0:38:28.080 hearing something and go that may be about as good 0:38:28.080 --> 0:38:31.040 as I can do, and that speaks to me, maybe 0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:32.719 I could do it a little bit better, do this, 0:38:32.880 --> 0:38:35.960 do that. But you know, part of the part of 0:38:36.000 --> 0:38:39.399 the joy is the minutia. And I may be the 0:38:39.440 --> 0:38:42.799 only one that notices that I took one note out, 0:38:42.920 --> 0:38:45.680 or that I took one word out, or that I 0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:50.440 sing this note longer than maybe I would have or whatever. 0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:53.160 If I'm the only one that notices, I still have 0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:56.719 to do it, because then it's a disservice to myself. 0:38:57.719 --> 0:39:00.319 And so I just do the things that way that 0:39:00.360 --> 0:39:03.719 I do them, and and sometimes I drive people nuts. 0:39:03.920 --> 0:39:06.200 I mean, I'm not that I'm not a control freak, 0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:09.600 you know. I'm always up for a better idea, better part, 0:39:09.680 --> 0:39:13.719 better better everything, you know, and let let everybody have 0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:16.680 the opportunity to bring their gifts. When I I first 0:39:16.680 --> 0:39:19.880 worked with Don Henley, my boss, uh, he asked me 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:23.200 to come sing on Cass County and I said, okay. 0:39:23.239 --> 0:39:25.839 So I knew the minutia details that I was in 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:28.200 for as I knew all the stories and I heard 0:39:28.239 --> 0:39:31.160 them all and I was fine with that because I 0:39:31.200 --> 0:39:35.080 don't mind it one bit and it was a great 0:39:35.160 --> 0:39:38.680 lesson to learn for us to be friends. Was I 0:39:38.719 --> 0:39:40.279 went in there and he played me the song and 0:39:40.680 --> 0:39:42.640 I'm listening to it. He played a couple more times 0:39:42.680 --> 0:39:44.680 and I said, okay, I think I think I got it. 0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:47.160 He goes, well, this is where I want the harmonies, 0:39:47.440 --> 0:39:49.960 and these are the notes I want. And I said 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:51.600 to him, I said, okay, I don't. I don't hear 0:39:51.640 --> 0:39:53.759 it that way, but I'll do it for you. So 0:39:53.800 --> 0:39:55.239 I did it for him the way he wanted to 0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:59.279 do it, and he was so so so pleased. You know, 0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:01.960 we got done in he goes man as advertised, that's 0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:03.799 as good a harmony singing as I've ever heard and 0:40:04.640 --> 0:40:06.360 you know, job well done. And I said, well, you 0:40:06.360 --> 0:40:08.799 want to move on and he said, no, you said 0:40:08.800 --> 0:40:10.960 something to me before we started. It caught my attention. 0:40:11.040 --> 0:40:13.000 I said, well, what's that and he goes, well, he said, 0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:15.680 you didn't hear it that way? He said, would you 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:18.000 mind singing it for me? How you would have done it? 0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:21.279 He said, okay. So I went back in there and 0:40:22.960 --> 0:40:25.080 and I sang it. I started singing the first bit 0:40:25.239 --> 0:40:28.160 and he gets the talk back. He goes, dude, way better, 0:40:28.280 --> 0:40:32.319 let's start over. I said, okay, And so he let 0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:34.840 me have that freedom. So it was a great lesson 0:40:34.840 --> 0:40:38.600 to learn that. You know, he gets often painted as 0:40:38.600 --> 0:40:40.799 a control freak, but he wasn't, you know. And I 0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:43.719 found that out to be true, that he's if there's 0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:45.759 a good idea, he's up for it, you know. And 0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:48.520 it was great for our friendship and I earned his 0:40:48.600 --> 0:40:51.520 trust and I think I still have it all these 0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:52.080 years later. 0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:05.040 Okay, would you rather work in the studio or go 0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:08.400 on the road? Leaving the traveling out? 0:41:08.960 --> 0:41:11.440 You know, they're both the same. I love playing live 0:41:11.560 --> 0:41:14.759 because it's live, because it's in the moment and there 0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:17.360 is no fixing it, there is no going back and 0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:20.840 trying it again. It's just the moment, and that's the 0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:23.560 way I live my life. I love living in the moment. 0:41:23.600 --> 0:41:26.560 I'm really comfortable living in the moment. I don't look ahead, 0:41:26.600 --> 0:41:29.279 I don't look back with regret, and I just am 0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:32.680 grateful for the moment I have. Tomorrow's not promised, and 0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:35.319 so I just accept this moment for what it is 0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:38.680 and grateful for it. And then playing in the studio, 0:41:38.800 --> 0:41:41.600 you get to mess with it. You get to, you know, 0:41:41.640 --> 0:41:44.080 try different things. Hey, let's try this instead of that, 0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:47.080 and all options are on the table and everybody kind 0:41:47.080 --> 0:41:50.600 of like in that democratic way I mentioned earlier, everybody 0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:56.080 gets to you know, the ability to voice an opinion. 0:41:56.120 --> 0:41:58.759 There's no I'm the boss, You'll do what I want 0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:01.719 you to play in. None of that ever, And I 0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:04.000 love I love the spirit of that. I love the 0:42:04.040 --> 0:42:06.360 spirit that is in here when we do this. So 0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:11.480 I would say neither one is preferable, but they're both 0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:20.200 completely satisfying. Okay, Yes, So live gig is one and done. 0:42:20.920 --> 0:42:25.279 Every audience is different. You can be really hot one 0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:28.400 night and they're not registering it. You could make more mistakes. 0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:30.640 So to what degree are you in tune with the 0:42:30.680 --> 0:42:33.160 audience and try to win the audience over if they're 0:42:33.160 --> 0:42:36.439 not with you. Well, I think what I've learned over 0:42:36.760 --> 0:42:39.640 fifty two years of playing out live and all that 0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:42.640 is the audience is the whole key to a great show. 0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:44.640 I mean, I'm going to play and sing about the 0:42:44.640 --> 0:42:48.000 way I play and sing. If the audience catches fire 0:42:48.040 --> 0:42:51.080 and turns on and lifts you up and carries you 0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:53.480 to the finish line, it's the greatest feeling in the world. 0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:54.759 You know. 0:42:55.080 --> 0:42:59.160 Nowadays what's interesting about playing live. Everybody's got a phone, 0:43:00.360 --> 0:43:03.760 So every time you play, you have to deliver because 0:43:03.760 --> 0:43:05.560 they're going to go share it, they're gonna go post it, 0:43:05.560 --> 0:43:07.840 they're going to go put it out there. And so 0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:13.400 there's now a different kind of constant pressure about playing 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:16.080 live that there never used to be. You know, you 0:43:16.800 --> 0:43:18.440 weren't going to see it again. It was just that 0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:22.600 night and you were Maybe maybe it inhibits you a 0:43:22.600 --> 0:43:26.360 little bit to not try for something that you maybe 0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:29.480 know you it might be you might not make it, 0:43:29.640 --> 0:43:32.680 you know, so maybe it makes you play a little safer, sing, 0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:36.680 a little safer whatever, because you know, at some point 0:43:36.680 --> 0:43:38.600 somebody's going to capture something and put it out there 0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:41.480 and go, oh, man, dude, it's really lost it. He 0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:44.839 can't do it anymore. But uh, I don't I don't 0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:51.319 enjoy that. I don't enjoy being under the constant microscope 0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:54.440 all the time. I don't mind in the studio, and 0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:57.920 I don't mind a live performance where everybody's there and responds, 0:43:58.480 --> 0:44:00.600 goes home and goes, oh yeah, man, one song was 0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:02.640 a little funky, but all in all that was a 0:44:02.680 --> 0:44:06.200 cool show. And now they've all got bits, pieces and 0:44:06.239 --> 0:44:08.400 parts of all the songs and they go home and 0:44:09.440 --> 0:44:12.680 relive it. I don't understand why you would want. 0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:14.200 To make the. 0:44:14.160 --> 0:44:17.799 Effort to film what you're saying live, because then you're 0:44:17.840 --> 0:44:21.319 missing the experience of the liveness of what it is 0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:24.319 that you're there to see. And I don't think I've 0:44:24.320 --> 0:44:30.520 ever filmed anything in my life of something live, musical. 0:44:30.880 --> 0:44:33.560 I just want to be in the experience of it 0:44:33.640 --> 0:44:34.400 and in the middle of it. 0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:39.160 Well, you know, in the technological age, certainly when we 0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:43.320 were growing up, the acts were gods. There used to 0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:45.839 even be seats in all these places. Now they make 0:44:45.880 --> 0:44:48.200 you stand in many of them, and it was all 0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:53.839 focused on the act. Today, talking generally that I'll get 0:44:53.880 --> 0:44:58.840 specific frequently. The audience is a star. They're going to 0:44:58.880 --> 0:45:02.400 shoot selfies with each other. Oh yeah, they want to 0:45:02.440 --> 0:45:05.919 have the artifact that here's a video. I was there? 0:45:06.320 --> 0:45:08.120 Is that palpable from the stage? 0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:12.400 Oh it's you know, when we've been doing this sphere 0:45:12.440 --> 0:45:13.919 now for a little over a year and a half, 0:45:13.960 --> 0:45:16.680 I think, and we've done fifty eight shows in there, 0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:18.719 and people ask me all the time, you know, they said, 0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:22.880 what's it like playing the Sphere? And I jokingly, and 0:45:22.920 --> 0:45:26.239 I mean jokingly, I don't really mean this seriously, but 0:45:26.400 --> 0:45:28.600 I said, it's the most people I've ever been ignored by. 0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:34.560 And it's true, but it's kind of the way it 0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:35.040 should be. 0:45:35.719 --> 0:45:35.920 You know. 0:45:36.000 --> 0:45:41.759 The whole spectacle of that visual is it's unlike anybody's 0:45:41.800 --> 0:45:44.640 ever seen. You try to explain it to your friends 0:45:44.680 --> 0:45:45.919 that are going to come out and see a show. 0:45:45.960 --> 0:45:46.480 What's it like? 0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:48.680 Oh man, you're not going to believe it. It's so 0:45:48.800 --> 0:45:51.160 much bigger than you could ever imagine. 0:45:51.560 --> 0:45:51.759 You know. 0:45:51.800 --> 0:45:54.160 We went to see The Wizard of Oz not too 0:45:54.160 --> 0:45:55.919 long ago, Amy and I when I was out there 0:45:55.960 --> 0:45:58.799 for a couple of Eagle shows, and it was so 0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:04.040 impact full to see the magnitude of that movie in 0:46:04.120 --> 0:46:07.360 the sphere. But then what was beautiful about it was 0:46:07.360 --> 0:46:11.080 seeing something so innocent in this day and age of 0:46:12.239 --> 0:46:15.560 they're not being very much out there, that's very innocent. 0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:18.480 We both got weepy here and Judy Garland sing Somewhere 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:21.680 over the Rainbow with one hundred and sixty seven thousand speakers. 0:46:21.719 --> 0:46:25.759 It was. It was unbelievable. So I love playing there. 0:46:25.800 --> 0:46:28.680 I get it. I get why people enjoy it. And 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:31.760 what's cool about it with playing there with the Eagles 0:46:31.840 --> 0:46:36.640 is everybody knows every note to those songs. They know 0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:39.320 every harmony part, they know every word, they know every 0:46:39.600 --> 0:46:43.640 guitar solo, they know the ooze, the harmonies, everything about it. 0:46:43.760 --> 0:46:48.279 You know, it's such a great lesson to learn how 0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:52.400 important songs are because the song catalog that they have 0:46:52.520 --> 0:46:55.400 is why they're them. You know, it's an amazing catalog 0:46:55.400 --> 0:46:58.200 of songs that's pretty untouchable, and. 0:46:58.080 --> 0:46:58.600 It's just. 0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:05.560 Pretty amazing to get to experience at night after night 0:47:05.640 --> 0:47:09.320 and hear Desperado then here take it to the Limit, 0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:10.759 and here Lion Eyes and here. 0:47:11.200 --> 0:47:14.000 You know, it's just it's astounding. 0:47:13.840 --> 0:47:15.759 And I love it, And I don't know if We're 0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:17.319 going to do some more shows at the Sphere, but 0:47:17.360 --> 0:47:18.040 we'll see. 0:47:18.080 --> 0:47:23.120 And it's been a blast, okay. Joe Walsh was ill 0:47:24.160 --> 0:47:29.480 and you saying life's been good. A before you played 0:47:29.480 --> 0:47:33.000 with the Eagles. Did you know the song? Of course 0:47:33.960 --> 0:47:36.120 when you heard it every night? Yeah, you're there, you're 0:47:36.160 --> 0:47:39.799 playing when you actually sang it. Did you have a teleprompter? 0:47:40.480 --> 0:47:41.000 Of course? 0:47:41.440 --> 0:47:43.440 I always have. I told Donna said, I'm gonna have 0:47:43.440 --> 0:47:46.040 to have a teleprompter. You guys have sung Lion Eyes 0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:46.719 for fifty years. 0:47:46.800 --> 0:47:47.160 I haven't. 0:47:47.200 --> 0:47:49.440 There's nine verses, so I'm going to need a telephone. 0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:53.440 I used one, but that night, you know, I remember 0:47:53.480 --> 0:47:55.800 when Joe got sick on the Friday night the night before. 0:47:57.200 --> 0:47:59.600 He was kind of coming on and off stage and 0:47:59.640 --> 0:48:03.800 taking oxygen and struggling, and so we got done. And 0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:06.360 the next morning Joe had to go to the hospital 0:48:07.200 --> 0:48:10.000 and we knew he wasn't gonna play. And Don called 0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:12.120 and said, men, you think we can work up three 0:48:12.200 --> 0:48:14.319 or four year songs? And I go, man, we don't 0:48:14.320 --> 0:48:17.560 have any content for them on the on all the 0:48:17.760 --> 0:48:20.399 all the stuff. I don't think it would work. I said, 0:48:20.440 --> 0:48:22.719 I can sing Joe's songs. He said can you, and 0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:25.160 I go, oh, yeah, no problem. I've been singing in 0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:29.319 my whole life, and so the humor of it was 0:48:29.920 --> 0:48:32.799 hearing me sing life's been good, my maserati and I 0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:36.160 you know, none of that stuff has ever been a 0:48:36.200 --> 0:48:38.640 part of my life. So it was pretty laughable to 0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:41.919 hear me singing those songs. But one of the crew 0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:45.200 guys after after we got done, he walked by and goes, man, 0:48:45.200 --> 0:48:47.040 that was cool, as you did a great job. He goes, 0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:52.799 I never understood the words because Joe was you know, 0:48:52.880 --> 0:48:56.719 does does Joe? And and uh so, yeah, it was 0:48:56.960 --> 0:48:59.319 you know, Don said, hey, we can eat, you know, 0:48:59.360 --> 0:49:03.000 we can point eighteen five hundred people or just man 0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:05.480 up and go play, you know. So we did that 0:49:05.640 --> 0:49:08.399 and there's a few detractors. I had a guy over 0:49:08.400 --> 0:49:10.280 to the right of me, and that was so pissed 0:49:10.960 --> 0:49:12.640 that I was that Joe wasn't there and I was 0:49:12.680 --> 0:49:17.439 singing his songs and they you know, but but yeah, 0:49:17.560 --> 0:49:21.000 it was I think the best option, you know that 0:49:21.160 --> 0:49:22.240 that could have happened. 0:49:23.120 --> 0:49:27.360 Okay, it's the sphere, as you say, being ignored, but 0:49:27.400 --> 0:49:30.080 the stage is low, it's almost like a high school saha, 0:49:31.080 --> 0:49:35.120 And there was a guy on the floor that really 0:49:35.160 --> 0:49:37.480 was catching your rye and affecting your emotions. 0:49:37.480 --> 0:49:39.520 I could hear him, yeah, I mean he was mad. 0:49:39.600 --> 0:49:41.960 I mean we when we played, we play about three 0:49:41.960 --> 0:49:45.480 songs and then Don comes out to talk and welcome everybody, 0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:48.799 and and it was obvious that Joe wasn't there. We 0:49:49.000 --> 0:49:52.680 started with Hotel California, and Deacon covered and did a 0:49:52.680 --> 0:49:58.520 great job. And uh so Don's walking out, and this 0:49:58.560 --> 0:49:59.279 guy over to my. 0:49:59.320 --> 0:50:03.080 Right goes, where's Joe. You know, he's not. 0:50:03.160 --> 0:50:05.359 Happy, And Don looked over and at him and through 0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:07.800 the microphones says, shut up, and I'll tell you. 0:50:11.400 --> 0:50:13.480 He didn't take anything off of anybody. And I love it. 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:15.759 But uh and then he was you know, I could 0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:19.680 hear him over there. And finally somebody, the security, you know, 0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:22.520 finally says, you know, you you kind of have to 0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:23.040 shut up or. 0:50:23.040 --> 0:50:23.640 You're gonna have to go. 0:50:23.800 --> 0:50:26.279 And and a friend of a friend of mine that 0:50:26.320 --> 0:50:30.400 I had breakfast with was sitting right behind it. That morning, 0:50:30.440 --> 0:50:32.760 I'd had breakfast with my friend and he was sitting 0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:35.080 right behind this guy. And he finally grabbed a guy 0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:37.279 and said, if you say another word, I'm taking you 0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:41.000 out of here. Myself and all of that, and it finally, 0:50:41.719 --> 0:50:44.640 it finally simmered down. But you know, it wasn't it 0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:46.520 wasn't a whole lot different than the first night I 0:50:46.520 --> 0:50:49.640 played with them, you know. And and Glint had passed, 0:50:49.640 --> 0:50:52.480 and so I'm going to sing the first song I sang, 0:50:52.520 --> 0:50:56.560 and I'm scared to death, you know. And and what 0:50:56.760 --> 0:51:01.239 was really amazing was I could feel the apprehension of 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:05.560 that crowd at Dodger Stadium. I knew they just were 0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:08.239 not having it, you know. And I got done with 0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:10.200 the verse and chorus. I've taken the limit, I think, 0:51:10.239 --> 0:51:13.600 and I felt everybody just go, it's. 0:51:13.400 --> 0:51:15.480 Going to be okay. It's going to be okay. 0:51:16.320 --> 0:51:18.719 And you know, I've had detractors the whole time and 0:51:18.960 --> 0:51:21.240 will and I expect it and. 0:51:21.360 --> 0:51:25.680 Well, wait, wait a second, s it's the Eagles, I know. No, no, 0:51:25.719 --> 0:51:28.160 what I mean by that is, was it like the 0:51:28.280 --> 0:51:31.440 dude in that movie The Eagles have the biggest selling 0:51:31.520 --> 0:51:35.680 album of all time. It's like it's like Windows versus 0:51:35.719 --> 0:51:39.560 you know, mac Ows. The people who are negative, you know, 0:51:39.600 --> 0:51:43.200 they have passions about it. Yeah, I get it, you know. 0:51:43.280 --> 0:51:45.799 And I told people when I first started talking about 0:51:45.840 --> 0:51:48.319 I go look, I don't want to hear me sing 0:51:48.360 --> 0:51:52.080 new kid in Town either, you know, But that's that's 0:51:52.120 --> 0:51:55.799 the option. That's what we're left with. And the way 0:51:55.840 --> 0:51:58.680 I've always kind of reacted to getting to do that. 0:51:58.840 --> 0:52:01.759 You know, I'm beyungrateful that I was the guy they 0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:06.120 called to come and do that, but the only reason 0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:09.239 I got to do it was because of a tragedy. 0:52:10.360 --> 0:52:12.440 And that's always at the forefront of my mind. So 0:52:12.520 --> 0:52:14.960 I don't I'm not high five and people go, hey, man, 0:52:15.000 --> 0:52:16.719 I'm in the Eagles, you know, I'm just going I'm 0:52:16.719 --> 0:52:20.080 here because something really sad that happened. I wish it 0:52:20.080 --> 0:52:22.440 didn't happen either. I wish I didn't get to do it. 0:52:22.480 --> 0:52:23.640 I wish Glenn was still. 0:52:23.440 --> 0:52:24.840 Alive, but he's not. 0:52:25.160 --> 0:52:29.560 And and so hopefully this is this is an acceptable option, 0:52:30.000 --> 0:52:34.279 you know, And with most people it's been okay, Well I. 0:52:34.360 --> 0:52:38.480 Was there, and I understand what you're saying, but you know, 0:52:38.520 --> 0:52:41.560 it's kind of like dead End Company. Dead End Company. 0:52:42.760 --> 0:52:46.279 There's a lot of heretics, but they were tighter than 0:52:46.320 --> 0:52:50.640 the Grateful Dead and that night, you know, the band 0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:52.759 maybe because they knew they had something to prove. It 0:52:52.800 --> 0:52:55.040 was actually a step up from what it had been, 0:52:55.719 --> 0:53:01.600 you know, prior to your tenure. But how did you 0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:04.600 find out they were interested in you filling the rule? 0:53:05.000 --> 0:53:07.439 Was it one and done? Did they call and say, hey, 0:53:07.560 --> 0:53:09.080 you want to do it or not? Or did they 0:53:09.080 --> 0:53:12.160 make you go through some hoops? And were you always 0:53:12.239 --> 0:53:15.160 in or were you somewhat anxious that maybe this wouldn't 0:53:15.160 --> 0:53:17.080 be a good thing for you? Now. 0:53:17.320 --> 0:53:24.240 I remember when I did Kennedy Center honors for the Eagles, 0:53:24.239 --> 0:53:27.960 when they were honored, and I think I sang peaceful, 0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:30.160 easy feeling and some of life in the fast lane 0:53:30.200 --> 0:53:34.520 and maybe something else, And that might have been the 0:53:34.560 --> 0:53:37.319 moment where Don might have been sitting there going, hey, 0:53:38.080 --> 0:53:39.799 this guy might work. Don told me, he said, you're 0:53:39.800 --> 0:53:43.000 one of the only people I even consider doing this with, 0:53:43.320 --> 0:53:46.279 you know, Deacon obviously, because he was Glenn's son. And 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:49.200 Don's a big believer in the son of the Father 0:53:49.280 --> 0:53:52.080 and the trade and a big believer in that, and 0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:56.120 so that made sense, you know, And it helped also 0:53:56.200 --> 0:53:58.520 from an emotional place for a lot of people to 0:53:58.560 --> 0:54:02.400 see Glenn's son up there. But I think that was 0:54:02.480 --> 0:54:06.399 maybe when they thought maybe I might be the right guy, 0:54:07.360 --> 0:54:10.799 and I'd had a relationship with everybody in the band. 0:54:10.840 --> 0:54:13.680 Prior to that, you know, Timothy and Joe and Don. 0:54:13.680 --> 0:54:16.480 I'd written some songs with Joe and we played at 0:54:16.560 --> 0:54:20.359 Eric's Crossroad Guitar festivals together, and Timothy came and sang 0:54:20.400 --> 0:54:22.120 on my version of I Can't tell you Why. When 0:54:22.160 --> 0:54:24.560 we did a tribute to the Eagles record Beat Eagles 0:54:24.560 --> 0:54:28.440 Records in the mid nineties. And then Glenn and I 0:54:28.480 --> 0:54:32.440 were golf buddies, and Glenn and I shared Larry Fitzgerald 0:54:32.440 --> 0:54:34.879 as our manager in the years that the Eagles were 0:54:35.200 --> 0:54:38.440 not together between eighty and ninety four, so I was 0:54:38.440 --> 0:54:42.440 friendly with all those guys. And when Irving called Larry 0:54:42.480 --> 0:54:46.160 and said, hey, we're talking about maybe trying this just 0:54:46.200 --> 0:54:48.719 in an experiment, see if it works. Do you think 0:54:48.840 --> 0:54:52.759 Vince would have any interest? And Larry called me said 0:54:52.760 --> 0:54:54.279 what do you think? I said, when do we leave? 0:54:55.680 --> 0:54:56.440 You know it? 0:54:57.360 --> 0:55:00.239 It was a no brainer. You know my favorite and 0:55:00.760 --> 0:55:03.799 you know easily, and I got tapes of me as 0:55:03.840 --> 0:55:08.480 fifteen year old kids singing their songs, and I tell people, 0:55:08.480 --> 0:55:10.120 I said, I was in pure Prairie League, but I 0:55:10.160 --> 0:55:14.000 wanted to be in the Eagles. So yeah, it was 0:55:14.200 --> 0:55:16.120 It was a very easy, yes, you. 0:55:16.080 --> 0:55:18.839 Know, and and. 0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:20.279 And the premise was early on, let's just do a 0:55:20.320 --> 0:55:23.960 few shows and see how everybody takes it, you know, 0:55:24.040 --> 0:55:26.480 And everybody was kind of okay with it, I think 0:55:27.280 --> 0:55:31.760 audience wise, their fan fan base wise and them and 0:55:31.760 --> 0:55:34.000 and you know, I'm kind of of a village idiot. 0:55:34.040 --> 0:55:36.359 I'm cutting up all the time and cracking jokes, and 0:55:36.840 --> 0:55:39.680 I keep it pretty light. So I'm a good bit 0:55:39.719 --> 0:55:43.279 different than maybe what they've experienced in the past with 0:55:43.360 --> 0:55:44.120 the drama. 0:55:44.600 --> 0:55:47.359 Irrelevant of what you play in the set, what are 0:55:47.400 --> 0:55:49.680 your two favorite Eagles songs? 0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:54.480 I would probably say Desperado's my favorite. 0:55:55.719 --> 0:55:56.120 In that. 0:55:57.680 --> 0:56:00.880 When I first started playing with them, I asked, I said, okay, 0:56:01.360 --> 0:56:03.400 shoot me straight. I said, what's the first song you 0:56:03.480 --> 0:56:07.440 and Glenn ever wrote? And he smiled and said Desperado. 0:56:07.800 --> 0:56:09.880 I said, no way. I said, you got to be 0:56:10.239 --> 0:56:12.840 bs and me. You had to write some average songs 0:56:12.880 --> 0:56:16.000 before you wrote Esperando. And he started laughing, No, that's 0:56:16.040 --> 0:56:19.040 the first song we ever wrote. And so I said, moy, 0:56:19.080 --> 0:56:22.239 you talk about meant to be so that one is 0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:26.040 always emotional for me when I hear it. Realizing that 0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:29.600 was the beginning of their partnership, in the beginning of 0:56:29.600 --> 0:56:32.799 that band and what the song was that lifted them off? 0:56:32.840 --> 0:56:37.719 And you know, I don't know, maybe another one might be, 0:56:38.760 --> 0:56:43.480 might be Rocky Mountain Way. In that I was a 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:46.360 probably a thirteen fourteen year old kid in my room 0:56:46.560 --> 0:56:48.400 learning how to play it, you know, And I was 0:56:48.400 --> 0:56:50.560 a Joe freak. I love James Gang and I loved 0:56:50.600 --> 0:56:53.439 it solo records, and I played that song in every 0:56:53.480 --> 0:56:58.960 garage band I've ever been in, and that's always it's 0:56:58.960 --> 0:57:02.280 always a head scratcher. Look over and go, are you serious? 0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:06.040 You're playing Rocky Mountain Way right now, you know, And 0:57:06.120 --> 0:57:10.759 it's it's not lost on me. How how amazing this 0:57:10.880 --> 0:57:12.080 experience is, you know, I. 0:57:14.160 --> 0:57:16.560 Walk away being grateful. I walk away. 0:57:18.120 --> 0:57:21.720 Learning how important songs are again, you know, and why 0:57:21.720 --> 0:57:24.800 they're them is because their songs are so good, you know. 0:57:24.880 --> 0:57:26.560 And I just. 0:57:26.520 --> 0:57:30.080 Hope that they walk away being feeling the same way 0:57:29.840 --> 0:57:32.360 that they were. They feel good about asking me to 0:57:32.360 --> 0:57:33.080 come do it with them. 0:57:33.880 --> 0:57:38.120 Okay, you talk about glenn and Don writing that National's 0:57:38.160 --> 0:57:42.720 famous for its writing sessions. There's Lennon and McCartney. Although 0:57:42.760 --> 0:57:46.160 it came out one person would write more than the others, 0:57:46.160 --> 0:57:49.880 it went on what's your feeling about writing in terms 0:57:49.880 --> 0:57:50.720 of collaboration. 0:57:52.120 --> 0:57:55.080 I enjoy it, you know, I enjoy seeing you know, 0:57:55.360 --> 0:57:58.720 I think oftentimes I've written plenty of songs that have 0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:02.000 been successful by myself. I've written plenty of songs with 0:58:02.080 --> 0:58:04.440 other people that have been successful, and vice versa. 0:58:04.560 --> 0:58:04.800 You know. 0:58:06.520 --> 0:58:09.560 I remember there's a great joke about Roger Miller. They 0:58:09.600 --> 0:58:11.480 asked him one time, they said, did you ever? Do 0:58:11.520 --> 0:58:17.840 you ever co write? Did Picasso ever co paint? And 0:58:17.880 --> 0:58:20.440 so there's been a lot of people that weren't for it, 0:58:20.560 --> 0:58:24.520 that didn't do it, and I always enjoyed it. I 0:58:24.600 --> 0:58:27.960 enjoyed the process. I enjoy making a new friend. I 0:58:28.080 --> 0:58:29.400 enjoy keeping an old friend. 0:58:30.080 --> 0:58:30.240 You know. 0:58:30.200 --> 0:58:33.240 I got people I've written songs with for forty five 0:58:33.320 --> 0:58:35.200 years that I still write songs with, you know, and 0:58:35.960 --> 0:58:38.960 always will. And brand new people kids that come along 0:58:38.960 --> 0:58:41.120 that have an act for it and have a gift 0:58:41.160 --> 0:58:44.080 for it, and you know, two three heads or sometimes 0:58:44.160 --> 0:58:45.040 maybe better than one. 0:58:45.680 --> 0:58:49.800 Okay, But if you're writing alone, ay, do you take 0:58:49.840 --> 0:58:51.880 it as work like I got an album and I 0:58:51.880 --> 0:58:55.080 got to have songs or are you waiting for inspiration? 0:58:55.800 --> 0:58:58.720 And do you find qualitatively the stuff that's written on 0:58:58.800 --> 0:59:02.520 inspiration different or better than the stuff that you're grinding 0:59:02.560 --> 0:59:02.880 it out. 0:59:04.080 --> 0:59:06.640 I think I'm a way different songwriter at sixty nine 0:59:06.680 --> 0:59:11.040 than I was at twenty nine in that I'm willing 0:59:11.120 --> 0:59:13.960 to wait for it. In those early days, I might 0:59:14.000 --> 0:59:16.320 not have been willing to wait for it. When I 0:59:16.360 --> 0:59:19.000 first started playing with Pure Prairie League, I was god. 0:59:19.040 --> 0:59:20.880 I think I was twenty two twenty three years old. 0:59:20.880 --> 0:59:23.760 I was very young. I'd only written seven songs in 0:59:23.800 --> 0:59:26.640 my life and I joined that band. They didn't have 0:59:26.680 --> 0:59:28.760 any songs, and we're going to make a record, and 0:59:28.760 --> 0:59:30.280 they said, do you have any songs? And I said, 0:59:30.440 --> 0:59:34.040 I get some. They cut five of them, and none 0:59:34.080 --> 0:59:35.960 of them were I didn't think any of them were 0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:39.320 that good, but the only options they had, so we 0:59:39.480 --> 0:59:42.200 I wound up getting five of my songs cut on 0:59:42.240 --> 0:59:44.640 this first record. I went, Okay, now I'm a songwriter. 0:59:45.520 --> 0:59:48.640 So that was the start and then where I am today. 0:59:50.320 --> 0:59:52.760 I just love the patience that I have to be 0:59:52.880 --> 0:59:55.560 willing to edit myself. When you're young, you think you 0:59:55.600 --> 0:59:58.400 know everything, so maybe you don't think you need to edit. 0:59:58.600 --> 1:00:01.040 You don't need to. Well that's good. I think that's great. 1:00:01.080 --> 1:00:01.640 But you could. 1:00:02.200 --> 1:00:04.120 You could try and try and try again. I'm in 1:00:04.160 --> 1:00:06.480 here all the time, like singing a vocal on a 1:00:07.080 --> 1:00:09.600 song I wrote, and I'll go, I don't like that 1:00:09.760 --> 1:00:12.880 line that doesn't sing well, so I'll rewrite it and 1:00:12.960 --> 1:00:15.760 find words that sing better, you know, And and all 1:00:15.800 --> 1:00:18.560 those things are a part of the process, and just 1:00:18.680 --> 1:00:22.600 always being willing to edit yourself. You know, I think 1:00:24.120 --> 1:00:26.640 writing a song is no different than writing a book 1:00:26.720 --> 1:00:28.960 or a story in a newspaper or a review or 1:00:29.360 --> 1:00:31.840 what have you. You know, you got to be willing 1:00:31.920 --> 1:00:35.480 to once again edit yourself and go to what do 1:00:35.560 --> 1:00:38.720 I really need to tell this story? I remember there's 1:00:38.760 --> 1:00:41.880 a great songwriter I wrote a song with on one 1:00:41.920 --> 1:00:45.640 of these records, and sadly his name won't come to 1:00:45.680 --> 1:00:50.520 me right now. He's the guy that wrote the house 1:00:50.560 --> 1:00:53.800 that built me for Miranda Lambert, and his name won't 1:00:53.800 --> 1:00:56.760 come to me. And I'm embarrassed. But you know, we 1:00:56.840 --> 1:01:00.000 wrote this song and had one verse in one chorus, 1:01:00.960 --> 1:01:04.240 and we're writing and saying it, and I go, I 1:01:04.280 --> 1:01:06.880 think we're done, Because what do you mean we're done? 1:01:07.840 --> 1:01:10.200 I said, Well, look at the lyric. What else would 1:01:10.240 --> 1:01:10.600 you say? 1:01:11.120 --> 1:01:11.320 You know? 1:01:11.360 --> 1:01:15.360 The story is told because gosh, you're right, I said, 1:01:15.760 --> 1:01:18.160 Merul Haggard did pretty good with only writing one verse 1:01:18.160 --> 1:01:21.760 to a whole lot of songs. And you know, guys 1:01:21.800 --> 1:01:23.880 like Rodney Crowd, Guy Clark, those are the guys that 1:01:25.840 --> 1:01:29.480 helped teach me to not overdo it, to be willing 1:01:29.520 --> 1:01:33.360 to only say what's necessary. There's a word in there 1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:35.680 that doesn't have the story it has to go, you know. 1:01:35.760 --> 1:01:39.680 And so I think, more than anything, you know, the 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:44.920 process of writing has evolved over the years. And I 1:01:45.000 --> 1:01:47.120 just thought of Tom Douglas as the guy I was 1:01:47.160 --> 1:01:49.400 trying to think of his name that wrote that song 1:01:49.440 --> 1:01:52.640 with me, and he's a brilliant songwriter. And I'm embarrassed. 1:01:52.640 --> 1:01:55.120 But the old mind ain't what it used to be. 1:02:04.760 --> 1:02:08.640 Okay, you're growing up in Oklahoma in the sixties and seventies. 1:02:08.960 --> 1:02:12.320 Are you a rock guy or a country guy? Both? 1:02:13.120 --> 1:02:13.440 I was. 1:02:13.680 --> 1:02:16.840 I was a chameleon in that I was the youngest 1:02:16.880 --> 1:02:19.000 in my family. So when I was growing up, before 1:02:19.000 --> 1:02:21.680 I could buy my own records, I had my mom 1:02:21.680 --> 1:02:25.680 and dad's records, which were primarily country. My dad liked 1:02:25.680 --> 1:02:32.120 big you know, singers like uh he like Eddie Arnold, 1:02:32.240 --> 1:02:35.080 somebody like that, like crooner's stuff like that. My big 1:02:35.120 --> 1:02:39.800 brother loved the blues, my sister loved pop music, rock 1:02:39.840 --> 1:02:42.440 and roll, and I was drawn to bluegrass and country 1:02:42.520 --> 1:02:47.080 music later. But I never got to buy my own records, 1:02:47.080 --> 1:02:50.680 so I had to listen to everything that in the 1:02:50.680 --> 1:02:53.880 folks in my family chose to pick and play, and 1:02:53.920 --> 1:02:57.240 so that gave me a pretty diverse palette for music 1:02:57.240 --> 1:03:00.760 early on. And I liked everything I was. I was 1:03:00.800 --> 1:03:04.120 responding to everything. When I first had enough money to 1:03:04.120 --> 1:03:06.760 go buy a forty five, probably in grade school, I 1:03:06.800 --> 1:03:09.800 went and bought a Beatles record. I bought Twist and Shout, 1:03:10.960 --> 1:03:13.880 and that's the first record I ever bought with my 1:03:13.920 --> 1:03:16.320 own money. It was either that or They're coming to 1:03:16.360 --> 1:03:19.840 take me away to the Funny Farm. I can't remember 1:03:19.840 --> 1:03:22.080 which one was first, but I'm betting it was the Beatles. 1:03:22.520 --> 1:03:27.280 But you know, I then I got and I liked 1:03:27.320 --> 1:03:28.840 the country music of buck Owens. 1:03:28.880 --> 1:03:29.240 I liked the. 1:03:30.760 --> 1:03:34.680 Merle Haggard and Twang Years stuff more than the smooth stuff. 1:03:34.720 --> 1:03:37.320 You know. I liked it, but that had that edge 1:03:37.320 --> 1:03:41.160 to it, that drive to it that some of it didn't, 1:03:41.240 --> 1:03:43.160 you know. And I think country music in its history 1:03:43.200 --> 1:03:49.280 has always done this pattern of evolving in that sometimes 1:03:49.280 --> 1:03:51.760 it felt like it was embarrassed to be what it was, 1:03:52.600 --> 1:03:54.880 so it tried to go emulate pop music. It tried 1:03:54.920 --> 1:03:58.440 to go emulate Frank Sinatra. Took Ray Charles to make 1:03:58.480 --> 1:04:01.920 a really great record nineteen six called The Modern Sounds 1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:06.160 in Country and Western Music that showed everybody how soulful 1:04:06.360 --> 1:04:10.200 our music was. You know, this beautiful singer Ray Charles 1:04:10.480 --> 1:04:13.280 would take a Hanks Williams song or a Don Gibson 1:04:13.360 --> 1:04:16.840 song or whoever and make it into this soulful, amazing 1:04:17.360 --> 1:04:21.280 piece of work. And it was I think invaluable in 1:04:21.320 --> 1:04:25.400 expanding people's viewpoint of what country music was. I think 1:04:25.440 --> 1:04:28.160 they were always embarrassed about the hey bales and the 1:04:28.200 --> 1:04:31.560 overalls and that kind of stuff. You know that it 1:04:31.600 --> 1:04:35.280 was hicck issuan, It was mountainee and all those things. 1:04:35.280 --> 1:04:37.880 But those are the things I loved about it and 1:04:38.000 --> 1:04:41.200 was drawn to being a teenage bluegrass picker, and all 1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:43.840 of a sudden I was immersed in the Stanley Brothers, 1:04:43.880 --> 1:04:46.160 Bill Monroe and learned about murder ballads and all this 1:04:46.200 --> 1:04:46.720 great stuff. 1:04:46.760 --> 1:04:52.840 Okay, so I'm growing up in the Northeast. You know, 1:04:52.880 --> 1:04:56.560 there's a lot of political division in the country now, 1:04:57.000 --> 1:05:01.800 but there's more homogenization than ever before. A you're growing 1:05:01.880 --> 1:05:05.640 up in Oklahoma, I'm growing up in Connecticut and the 1:05:05.640 --> 1:05:09.080 New York radio market. There is no country music. Of course, 1:05:09.160 --> 1:05:12.160 of course there's Charlie Rich who crosses over the most 1:05:12.160 --> 1:05:14.120 beautiful girl in the world every once in a while. 1:05:14.640 --> 1:05:18.680 So you're growing up, you know, is your country like 1:05:18.680 --> 1:05:20.840 on the radio you're dialing in, you're listening to that 1:05:20.920 --> 1:05:23.360 as well as Top forty maybe underground FM. 1:05:23.760 --> 1:05:25.720 Yeah, we sure did. And you know, the Grand Old Opry. 1:05:25.760 --> 1:05:29.360 A lot of people don't realize the intention of the 1:05:29.360 --> 1:05:31.959 Grand Old Opry when it started one hundred now one hundred. 1:05:32.000 --> 1:05:34.000 It's in his one hundred and first year of being 1:05:34.040 --> 1:05:37.360 on the air. In nineteen twenty five. It started, and 1:05:37.440 --> 1:05:42.400 it was an insurance company whose moniker was WSM, which 1:05:42.440 --> 1:05:46.200 stood for We Shield Millions. It's an insurance company, and 1:05:46.240 --> 1:05:51.040 their premise was when they started broadcasting music on the radio, 1:05:51.880 --> 1:05:54.760 was to find a way to appeal to rural people 1:05:55.720 --> 1:05:58.400 to sell them insurance. It's not that they had this 1:05:58.480 --> 1:06:01.600 great affinity for country music, can string band music and 1:06:01.640 --> 1:06:04.240 all that kind of stuff. They were trying to sell insurance. 1:06:04.280 --> 1:06:06.760 So it was all about trying to make a buck. 1:06:07.560 --> 1:06:09.640 And so they said, well, what are the rural people like. 1:06:09.680 --> 1:06:11.760 They said, well, they like that fiddle and banjo stuff. 1:06:12.240 --> 1:06:15.360 They really like that, that twangy stuff. And so a 1:06:15.360 --> 1:06:17.920 fiddler named Jimmy Thompson, they brought him into a radio 1:06:18.360 --> 1:06:21.800 or into a hotel room downtown Nashville in nineteen twenty five. 1:06:22.480 --> 1:06:24.960 He played fiddle tunes for thirty minutes to try to 1:06:25.000 --> 1:06:28.320 appeal to the rural people to sell insurance. And that's 1:06:28.360 --> 1:06:31.800 kind of how it got started. So, I mean, we 1:06:31.880 --> 1:06:34.320 listened some to WSM. You know, it was a big, 1:06:34.720 --> 1:06:37.000 big station that carried all across the country because of 1:06:37.640 --> 1:06:39.960 how many, you know, fifty thousand watts station and would 1:06:39.960 --> 1:06:43.440 carry all over And man, I listened to everything I 1:06:43.520 --> 1:06:46.560 always did, and I was you never got to see 1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:50.000 much on television, a little bit, not a ton of music. 1:06:50.040 --> 1:06:53.920 And then Andy Griffiths show had had the Darlings, which 1:06:53.960 --> 1:06:56.479 were the Dillers, and it had Clarence white and Roland 1:06:56.480 --> 1:06:59.959 Whitey were called the Kentucky Colonels and Flatt and scrub 1:07:00.040 --> 1:07:02.800 Us on the Beverly Hillbillies. And little by little you 1:07:02.960 --> 1:07:06.800 discover some of this stuff that I really liked, you know, 1:07:06.840 --> 1:07:09.240 I love the sound. My dad played the banjo, but 1:07:09.320 --> 1:07:12.080 not like Earl Scruggs. He played more of a PC 1:07:12.320 --> 1:07:14.919 or folk style of banjo, and that's what I heard 1:07:14.960 --> 1:07:17.160 as a little boy. And then when I heard Earl 1:07:17.400 --> 1:07:18.480 take off on a banjo, I. 1:07:18.560 --> 1:07:22.960 Go, I'm all about that. That's pretty cool sounded. So 1:07:24.080 --> 1:07:26.920 when did you start to play, and did you start 1:07:27.000 --> 1:07:28.680 on the piano or on a guitar. 1:07:30.240 --> 1:07:33.560 I started. I don't remember not playing, so I can't 1:07:33.600 --> 1:07:35.320 lay claim to say. And I started playing guitar when 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:37.640 I was seven. My mom has a picture of me 1:07:37.680 --> 1:07:40.560 and sleeping on the couch, face down. I'm about a 1:07:40.640 --> 1:07:42.160 year and a half, maybe two years old, and I'm 1:07:42.200 --> 1:07:45.080 asleep on the couch and I have my arm around 1:07:45.760 --> 1:07:49.200 a little, tiny parlor guitar. So I knew I was 1:07:49.240 --> 1:07:52.720 beaten on one as soon as I could walk. And 1:07:54.280 --> 1:07:57.280 I took piano lessons from a little old lady down 1:07:57.280 --> 1:07:59.720 the street and that didn't take I took violin lessons 1:08:00.280 --> 1:08:03.880 in grade school, and I just wanted to play the guitar, 1:08:04.240 --> 1:08:07.080 and those things fell by the wayside, and I kind 1:08:07.080 --> 1:08:10.240 of regret not learning to read, not learning to maybe 1:08:10.280 --> 1:08:12.000 play the piano. I think it would have served me 1:08:12.040 --> 1:08:14.880 well being able to play the piano, being a songwriter 1:08:15.000 --> 1:08:18.320 and the wealth of what's available to you at a 1:08:18.320 --> 1:08:24.360 piano keyboard is amazing. But the funny thing about I 1:08:25.200 --> 1:08:28.040 always tell the story the picture of me from my 1:08:28.120 --> 1:08:30.720 arm around that little guitar when I was year and 1:08:30.760 --> 1:08:32.240 a half two years old, was I was wearing a 1:08:32.320 --> 1:08:38.120 dress in the picture. But that's another show. But all 1:08:38.160 --> 1:08:40.280 I know is I was meant to play, and it's 1:08:40.320 --> 1:08:41.040 all I ever did. 1:08:42.200 --> 1:08:44.720 So you didn't go to college, but your father was 1:08:44.760 --> 1:08:46.840 a judge. What do you say about that? 1:08:47.840 --> 1:08:52.479 Well, because he was a musician. I think I fulfilled 1:08:52.520 --> 1:08:55.799 some of his dreams by going off and playing music. 1:08:56.120 --> 1:09:00.400 And I remember my mom got interviewed some years back 1:09:00.479 --> 1:09:02.960 and they asked her the same question. They said, did 1:09:03.000 --> 1:09:06.040 it bother you that your son didn't take a more traditional, 1:09:06.360 --> 1:09:08.920 you know route and go get a good education and get. 1:09:08.800 --> 1:09:11.040 A good job. And she say, no, I didn't bother me. 1:09:11.080 --> 1:09:13.000 She said, I didn't care anything about having a rich kid, 1:09:13.680 --> 1:09:16.240 but I sure cared about having a happy kid. That 1:09:16.320 --> 1:09:19.240 music always made him happy. She would tell stories about 1:09:19.280 --> 1:09:21.639 me coming home being mad about losing a baseball game 1:09:21.760 --> 1:09:24.360 or this and that and kicking my way upstairs and 1:09:24.400 --> 1:09:28.000 muttering and being mad. She said, about ten minutes of 1:09:28.040 --> 1:09:30.600 playing that guitar and you were fine. So it was 1:09:30.680 --> 1:09:32.800 like the best friend I ever had, that guitar. 1:09:33.400 --> 1:09:38.519 Okay, are you self taught completely? Pretty much? 1:09:38.840 --> 1:09:41.880 I took some lessons from a guy in Oklahoma City 1:09:41.920 --> 1:09:45.280 when I was probably in junior high school maybe, and 1:09:46.920 --> 1:09:49.400 he didn't teach me a lot, you know, he just 1:09:49.439 --> 1:09:51.840 would show me songs, but most of the time he 1:09:51.840 --> 1:09:53.880 would smoke a cigar and talk on the phone during 1:09:53.920 --> 1:09:57.040 my lesson. Yeah that sounds good, Keep keep playing that, 1:09:57.120 --> 1:09:59.040 you know, and he just you know, interrupted his phone 1:09:59.040 --> 1:10:00.559 calling play that again, you know. 1:10:00.600 --> 1:10:02.479 And I learned. 1:10:02.760 --> 1:10:05.200 I learned a few songs from going to take lessons 1:10:05.200 --> 1:10:08.640 from him. But my ears were really the gift of 1:10:09.160 --> 1:10:11.880 gifts and that they heard what it was that I 1:10:11.960 --> 1:10:14.640 needed to do, and they informed me, they taught me, 1:10:15.200 --> 1:10:19.080 and just repetition. I mean, we didn't have the Internet 1:10:19.120 --> 1:10:20.920 to look at and the YouTube to look at and 1:10:20.920 --> 1:10:23.240 see how so and so played that lick. 1:10:23.400 --> 1:10:23.559 You know. 1:10:23.600 --> 1:10:25.040 We had to dig it out of the out of 1:10:25.040 --> 1:10:28.240 our brains. And I remember years ago I was playing 1:10:28.920 --> 1:10:32.120 a show with James Burton, great guitar player, played with Elvis, 1:10:32.520 --> 1:10:36.160 Ricky Nelson and Emmy lou and one of my telecaster heroes. 1:10:36.160 --> 1:10:38.599 And we were playing a song that I'd heard him 1:10:38.600 --> 1:10:41.280 play a thousand times and I looked over and he's 1:10:41.280 --> 1:10:45.439 playing it. I go, oh, he's playing it on the 1:10:45.439 --> 1:10:49.000 third and fourth string, not the second and third strings. 1:10:49.080 --> 1:10:50.600 And I heard it and I'd played it on the 1:10:50.600 --> 1:10:53.439 second and third strings. I moved it up and started, Oh, 1:10:53.600 --> 1:10:56.360 that's why it sounds like it sounds. It was always missing, 1:10:56.439 --> 1:10:59.280 just this little detail, you know. And it was one 1:10:59.320 --> 1:11:02.800 more open string ringing from playing on the third and 1:11:02.840 --> 1:11:06.320 four strings than the second and third strings. It was 1:11:07.280 --> 1:11:10.240 pretty informative. And so yeah, we didn't have all that. 1:11:10.439 --> 1:11:13.880 And you know, people say, what do you like better? 1:11:14.160 --> 1:11:16.439 What do you think is your best gift? You're playing 1:11:16.479 --> 1:11:19.559 or you singing? I go, it's my hearing, you know. 1:11:19.600 --> 1:11:22.280 My hearing has informed all of it. Being able to 1:11:22.720 --> 1:11:25.720 differentiate what it is that someone's doing that I could 1:11:25.800 --> 1:11:26.120 learn it. 1:11:26.920 --> 1:11:30.559 Okay, I'm a little older than you. I remember the 1:11:30.600 --> 1:11:33.960 early sixties folk boom. Everybody got a nylon string guitar, 1:11:34.200 --> 1:11:37.880 sing Peter Paul and Mary the Beatles, hit. Everybody got 1:11:37.880 --> 1:11:43.920 an electric guitar, formed band? You're playing guitar? What's the 1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:46.479 next step? Are you playing at school assemblies? Do you 1:11:46.600 --> 1:11:49.200 form a band? How does it go well? 1:11:49.280 --> 1:11:51.880 I think the first place I went and played was 1:11:51.920 --> 1:11:54.640 it in grade school. They let me come over and 1:11:54.680 --> 1:11:57.920 I played the House of the Rising Sun. And so 1:11:58.000 --> 1:12:01.520 I'm in grade school. I'm singing, singing songs about catouses 1:12:01.600 --> 1:12:03.120 or whatever, and I knew the die was cast and 1:12:03.200 --> 1:12:05.519 I was meant to be a hillbilly singer. And and 1:12:05.560 --> 1:12:09.160 then I got into uh seventh grade, and my friend 1:12:09.160 --> 1:12:11.240 Benny and I we had a little trio and we 1:12:11.240 --> 1:12:14.280 were learning Sunshine of Your Love, anything that was going 1:12:14.320 --> 1:12:17.760 on in the day, and and and playing, and so 1:12:17.880 --> 1:12:21.360 I was. I had my first electric guitar when I 1:12:21.400 --> 1:12:24.559 was ten, So that was that was a pretty great gift. 1:12:24.640 --> 1:12:27.719 I still have it to this day. It's a Gibson 1:12:27.760 --> 1:12:28.800 E S three thirty five. 1:12:29.080 --> 1:12:30.960 Okay, nice guitar. 1:12:31.120 --> 1:12:33.120 So I had a great instrument to learn on, you know. 1:12:33.280 --> 1:12:36.280 And and what was your ramp? I had a Fender 1:12:36.360 --> 1:12:40.080 Super Reverb. I had high tools, you know, And I 1:12:40.080 --> 1:12:44.360 had no idea at the time, but anyway, we started 1:12:44.360 --> 1:12:47.520 playing those garage bands. And then when I was about 1:12:47.800 --> 1:12:52.880 uh fifteen or sixteen, I went out. I had broken 1:12:52.880 --> 1:12:55.320 a string on my father's banjo, and I didn't know 1:12:55.360 --> 1:12:56.599 how to fix it, and I knew I was going 1:12:56.640 --> 1:12:59.200 to catch Hell when he came home. So my mom said, 1:12:59.200 --> 1:13:01.800 there's a guy two blocks a way that fixed this 1:13:01.920 --> 1:13:04.439 banchos and plays and he'd probably be able to fix 1:13:04.439 --> 1:13:06.639 it for you. All that was was changing a string, 1:13:06.640 --> 1:13:08.400 and I didn't know how to change a banjo string. 1:13:08.920 --> 1:13:10.360 So I went over and he fixed it, and he goes, 1:13:10.479 --> 1:13:13.320 he ever played any bluegrass? And I said, Noah. His 1:13:13.439 --> 1:13:15.439 name was Charlie Clark, and he said, my son, Bobby's 1:13:15.439 --> 1:13:18.559 a real good musician as a bluegrass band. They just 1:13:18.600 --> 1:13:21.320 lost their lead singer and played in and I said, 1:13:21.400 --> 1:13:24.160 I've never played any bluegrass, and he shoved an acoustic 1:13:24.160 --> 1:13:25.760 guitar in my hand, and I started trying to learn 1:13:25.800 --> 1:13:28.920 to play bluegrass, started playing in Bobby's band, and that 1:13:28.960 --> 1:13:31.800 band was called The Bluegrass Review, And I started playing 1:13:31.840 --> 1:13:34.439 bluegrass festivals and loved it. 1:13:34.640 --> 1:13:35.680 Just loved flat. 1:13:35.439 --> 1:13:38.599 Picking and hearing guys like Clarence White, Tony Rice, all 1:13:38.600 --> 1:13:41.479 these great musicians. Sam Bush had new Grass Revival going. 1:13:42.320 --> 1:13:45.200 Then I was in another band in high school called 1:13:45.240 --> 1:13:49.320 Mountain Smoke, and that's the first record I ever made. 1:13:49.360 --> 1:13:52.799 I was seventeen and they decided to make a record, 1:13:52.840 --> 1:13:56.480 and we made a record. And I'm driving through Oklahoma 1:13:56.520 --> 1:13:58.400 City one day and lo and behold, one of the 1:13:58.479 --> 1:14:02.040 radio stations played a song that I played banjo on 1:14:02.280 --> 1:14:04.719 and sang. I was the lead singer on that particular song. 1:14:05.400 --> 1:14:07.519 And I got on my Cbee radio and I'm yelling, 1:14:07.560 --> 1:14:10.599 hey man, they're playing our song on the radio. Never 1:14:10.640 --> 1:14:12.439 got to hear myself on the radio. And these truckers 1:14:12.439 --> 1:14:14.360 are coming back. You sound good, kid, Hang in there, 1:14:14.400 --> 1:14:14.600 you know. 1:14:14.680 --> 1:14:17.080 And so it was. 1:14:17.560 --> 1:14:20.639 It was amazing that the first record I ever made 1:14:20.680 --> 1:14:23.760 got played by somebody, and it gave me this really 1:14:23.760 --> 1:14:27.000 beautiful sense of hope. If you try, maybe you never know, 1:14:27.400 --> 1:14:30.719 you know. And so that hope has never really dwindled 1:14:30.720 --> 1:14:33.640 and never faded. And I still, you know, every time 1:14:33.680 --> 1:14:35.320 I write a song or make a record, I hope 1:14:35.320 --> 1:14:39.400 somebody responds. Doesn't have to be a lot. Okay, so 1:14:39.520 --> 1:14:44.080 you're playing you have this experience. Do you know from 1:14:44.120 --> 1:14:46.400 a young age, I'm going to be a professional musician 1:14:46.560 --> 1:14:49.040 or does the light bulb go off, because you're gonna 1:14:49.080 --> 1:14:53.120 graduate from high school. Oh, I knew when I was 1:14:53.160 --> 1:14:56.040 fifteen what I was gonna do. You know, I'm lucky. 1:14:56.400 --> 1:14:58.080 I think a lot of kids go to school not 1:14:58.120 --> 1:15:00.760 having any idea what they want to do. But at 1:15:00.800 --> 1:15:04.040 fifteen somebody. First gig I ever got was this little 1:15:04.040 --> 1:15:07.200 club had a little three piece man that we went 1:15:07.240 --> 1:15:08.880 down there and played, and this lady said she'd pay 1:15:08.920 --> 1:15:12.920 us one hundred bucks. And so we played and went 1:15:12.960 --> 1:15:16.160 down there and we got done with the night and 1:15:16.200 --> 1:15:18.040 we went to get paid. She goes, I'm not paying you. 1:15:18.640 --> 1:15:20.120 I said, well, ma'am, you said you'd pay us one 1:15:20.160 --> 1:15:22.519 hundred bucks. She goes, well, I don't care what I said. 1:15:22.720 --> 1:15:26.200 I'm not paying you. I said, okay, my dad's a lawyer. 1:15:26.560 --> 1:15:29.840 I said, you're going to hear from me. And I 1:15:29.840 --> 1:15:31.880 had the guts to go take this woman to court. 1:15:32.720 --> 1:15:34.920 So we get in small claims court. My dad's course, 1:15:34.920 --> 1:15:39.120 didn't go with me, and I'm before the judge and 1:15:39.200 --> 1:15:43.639 he said, son, I see here here today for services 1:15:43.640 --> 1:15:45.960 rendered of one hundred dollars of playing a gig at 1:15:45.960 --> 1:15:48.400 her club. And I said, yes, sir, And he said, 1:15:48.400 --> 1:15:50.880 are you aware that she's countersuing you for libel and 1:15:50.960 --> 1:15:54.519 slander and defamation that carries this whole laundry list of stuff. 1:15:54.520 --> 1:15:56.559 And I go, no, I was not aware of that. 1:15:56.640 --> 1:15:58.599 And he goes son, he said, you want some advice. 1:15:58.720 --> 1:16:00.639 I said, yes, sir, and he goes, chuck this one 1:16:00.720 --> 1:16:05.439 up to experience and get out of my court. So 1:16:06.000 --> 1:16:08.880 even though I got stiffed on the first paying gig 1:16:08.960 --> 1:16:11.479 I was ever going to get, I still did it, 1:16:11.880 --> 1:16:16.519 you know. And what's funniest is it never mattered what 1:16:16.640 --> 1:16:19.240 I made, you know, I just love getting to do it. 1:16:19.280 --> 1:16:21.680 If I could keep the rent paid. I left home 1:16:21.720 --> 1:16:23.640 at eighteen, got out of high school and joined a 1:16:23.640 --> 1:16:26.960 band up in Louisville, Kentucky and called the Bluegrass Alliance 1:16:27.000 --> 1:16:29.920 and pretty well known bluegrass group in the day. And 1:16:31.840 --> 1:16:33.840 I rented a room in this guy's house named Harry 1:16:33.840 --> 1:16:36.719 Bikele and my rent was only fifteen dollars a month, 1:16:37.720 --> 1:16:39.519 and we made a couple hundred bucks a week and 1:16:39.520 --> 1:16:43.759 we played the club and so I was set. I go, man, 1:16:43.560 --> 1:16:46.320 I don't need to make much. It's fine, and I'm 1:16:46.320 --> 1:16:49.160 doing what I love and I'm paying the rent, eating 1:16:49.240 --> 1:16:54.880 and I'm it felt successful even at eighteen just being 1:16:54.920 --> 1:16:57.240 able to pay the rent. And it's kind of been 1:16:57.280 --> 1:16:59.320 my mantra the whole time. If I pay the rent, 1:16:59.600 --> 1:17:00.000 I'm good. 1:17:00.720 --> 1:17:03.880 Okay, you grew up in Oklahoma, so they say the 1:17:03.880 --> 1:17:07.519 internet works everywhere, cable TV, whatever, But that's not the 1:17:07.520 --> 1:17:10.960 era you and me grew up in. You've been around 1:17:11.080 --> 1:17:16.880 the United States. What's the difference between Oklahoma and other places. 1:17:18.080 --> 1:17:22.439 Well, golly, you know, Oklahoma's not southern. It's not the South, 1:17:22.960 --> 1:17:26.280 it's not the it's not the West, it's not the Northeast. 1:17:26.280 --> 1:17:31.880 It's it's an area that I think people understood how 1:17:32.360 --> 1:17:34.160 hard work was the only way to make it work, 1:17:34.800 --> 1:17:36.439 you know. And they dug a living out of the dirt. 1:17:37.560 --> 1:17:41.200 They were very practical. They were common sensical. Everything I 1:17:41.240 --> 1:17:42.880 did when I was a kid with my mom and dad, 1:17:42.920 --> 1:17:44.680 if it better make common sense, or you were going 1:17:44.760 --> 1:17:47.840 to catch hell, you know. So I lived in an 1:17:47.960 --> 1:17:51.559 environment of whatever you did better make sense, you know. 1:17:51.640 --> 1:17:54.599 And so that's how I grew up. And everybody's kind 1:17:54.640 --> 1:17:57.880 of matter of fact and honest. And I like the 1:17:57.920 --> 1:17:58.920 people from Oklahoma. 1:17:59.240 --> 1:17:59.400 You know. 1:17:59.479 --> 1:18:01.920 I left the long time ago. I was only there 1:18:02.000 --> 1:18:04.680 for eighteen years. But when I go back and I 1:18:04.680 --> 1:18:07.480 get my feet in that red dirt across the borderline 1:18:07.479 --> 1:18:09.679 and get into where I'm from. 1:18:09.680 --> 1:18:10.960 It just there's a. 1:18:10.880 --> 1:18:14.840 Feeling like I can't explain, just you know, Ani M 1:18:14.880 --> 1:18:17.599 said it there's no place like home, or Dorothy said 1:18:17.600 --> 1:18:18.599 it wasn't any m. 1:18:19.360 --> 1:18:22.160 Well, how did your family end up in Oklahoma? 1:18:23.720 --> 1:18:26.080 I think my dad my mom was born in Kansas, 1:18:26.520 --> 1:18:29.160 just farm country and grew up on a farm and 1:18:29.760 --> 1:18:34.200 watched them go through hard times, depression and dust bowl 1:18:34.360 --> 1:18:37.360 that kind of stuff. They knew hard times. And my dad, 1:18:37.800 --> 1:18:40.160 I think was born in that was actually born in Kansas, 1:18:40.200 --> 1:18:44.080 and my mom's mother, my dad's mother actually knew each 1:18:44.080 --> 1:18:49.160 other in Kansas and wound up in Oklahoma after they 1:18:49.160 --> 1:18:53.080 got married. And I don't know all the details, but 1:18:53.160 --> 1:18:56.679 my mom was married once prior to me being born 1:18:56.880 --> 1:19:00.439 to my dad and had my brother Bob in her 1:19:00.439 --> 1:19:03.160 first marriage and he's twelve years older than me. And 1:19:03.680 --> 1:19:06.080 my mom and dad got married and had myself and 1:19:06.120 --> 1:19:10.360 my sister. Yeah, it just, you know, it felt normal. 1:19:11.000 --> 1:19:13.479 That's what I liked about Oklahoma. It felt real normal. 1:19:14.880 --> 1:19:17.840 Okay, So now you're living in Nashville, you're playing in 1:19:17.880 --> 1:19:22.400 the Bluegrass Alliance. Let's be clear, it's country, but it's 1:19:22.439 --> 1:19:26.160 still sex, drugs and rock and roll A. To what 1:19:26.240 --> 1:19:30.240 degree was that appealing? B to what degreed did you experience? 1:19:30.320 --> 1:19:32.360 And see what was your viewpoint on all of that? 1:19:33.040 --> 1:19:37.680 Well, I like two out of three. I never You 1:19:37.720 --> 1:19:40.800 know what's funny, I never did any drugs. I've never 1:19:40.840 --> 1:19:42.960 smoked pot. And most people hear me say that and 1:19:43.000 --> 1:19:45.880 don't believe it. My own my own son Matt, when 1:19:45.920 --> 1:19:49.280 Amy and I got married, he said to me one time, 1:19:49.320 --> 1:19:50.920 he goes, you smoke a lot of dope, don't you. 1:19:51.600 --> 1:19:54.599 I started laughing. I go, dude, I've never smoked any dope. 1:19:54.640 --> 1:19:57.080 He goes, I think you're high right now, I said, 1:19:57.120 --> 1:19:59.360 I swear I have never smoked any pot. I'm really 1:19:59.360 --> 1:20:02.519 easy going, real chill, and I can see why you 1:20:02.560 --> 1:20:05.720 would think that, but I never I never was too 1:20:05.760 --> 1:20:09.679 interested in it. One of the reasons was I saw 1:20:09.720 --> 1:20:12.640 the effects of drinking and driving with what happened to 1:20:12.640 --> 1:20:14.960 my brother. He had a really severe car wreck at 1:20:15.000 --> 1:20:17.000 twenty one, and I was just a kid, and he 1:20:17.080 --> 1:20:19.280 was in a coma and had brain injury for three 1:20:19.320 --> 1:20:22.200 months and then struggled the rest of his life and 1:20:22.280 --> 1:20:24.840 kind of hoboed around and lived in the mission, and 1:20:25.240 --> 1:20:27.320 he disappeared for long periods of time and then come 1:20:27.360 --> 1:20:30.559 back home and disappear again. And he finally came home 1:20:30.600 --> 1:20:33.920 a couple of years before he passed and said he 1:20:33.960 --> 1:20:35.840 was done traveling and didn't want to mess around with that. 1:20:35.920 --> 1:20:38.479 My mom would always you find him a place and 1:20:39.560 --> 1:20:41.080 cheer him on, help him out, get him a car 1:20:41.200 --> 1:20:41.519 or whatever. 1:20:41.600 --> 1:20:43.639 And it was. 1:20:45.160 --> 1:20:48.240 I saw what that could do. So I think that 1:20:48.360 --> 1:20:51.200 subliminally it might have kind of led me down a 1:20:51.240 --> 1:20:53.720 path that I didn't want to. I didn't want to 1:20:53.760 --> 1:20:55.960 take that chance. I didn't want to cause that kind 1:20:56.000 --> 1:21:01.400 of hurt and my folks and disappointment and whatever. And 1:21:01.800 --> 1:21:05.680 so I jumped in with both feet and I, you know, 1:21:06.720 --> 1:21:12.479 I experienced a good life, you know, and I don't 1:21:12.520 --> 1:21:16.080 regret any of it, even the mistakes I made. I'm 1:21:16.120 --> 1:21:17.960 willing to accept them because I learned something. 1:21:18.560 --> 1:21:24.000 Okay, you're going to school. There are some people who 1:21:24.040 --> 1:21:26.479 go to school. They're the life of the party, they're 1:21:26.680 --> 1:21:30.960 the quarterback on the football team, they have sex, et cetera. 1:21:31.040 --> 1:21:32.600 And there are other people on the other end of 1:21:32.600 --> 1:21:36.120 the spectrum. You go on the road to what degree 1:21:36.720 --> 1:21:39.600 are you sexually experienced and to what degree do you 1:21:39.760 --> 1:21:43.400 handle you know, the nature of you're on stage. There 1:21:43.400 --> 1:21:45.600 are people who are attracted to that. That's just you 1:21:45.600 --> 1:21:47.080 don't have to do much of anything. 1:21:47.120 --> 1:21:49.960 So what was your experience, Well, it was it was 1:21:50.240 --> 1:21:53.679 intense in that it was a it was a free 1:21:53.680 --> 1:21:58.000 stretch of life and anything went, and I went with 1:21:58.120 --> 1:22:01.479 anything went, you know, and and all of that, and 1:22:03.920 --> 1:22:05.760 I don't know just kind of the way it was, 1:22:06.240 --> 1:22:10.040 you know, and you just just accepted whatever, you know, 1:22:10.880 --> 1:22:12.559 kind of anybody was willing to want to do. 1:22:12.720 --> 1:22:17.080 I guess, you know. I I part I partook plenty 1:22:17.600 --> 1:22:18.439 and had. 1:22:18.400 --> 1:22:23.600 A had a crazy life at times, but it was 1:22:23.680 --> 1:22:31.240 never never the center of everything. You know, It's oftentimes 1:22:31.280 --> 1:22:33.880 where you'd like things to wind up, but it was 1:22:33.960 --> 1:22:39.479 still focused on playing, focused on going to hear some 1:22:39.560 --> 1:22:43.000 great music at a club, focused on listening to a 1:22:43.040 --> 1:22:46.240 new record somebody made. I love the years that I 1:22:46.280 --> 1:22:49.960 lived in California. I moved out there and when I 1:22:50.000 --> 1:22:54.479 was nineteen, end of nineteen seventy six and just loved 1:22:54.479 --> 1:22:56.840 being near the ocean and being around the musicianship that 1:22:56.960 --> 1:22:59.080 was out there. And you could go to a club 1:22:59.120 --> 1:23:00.800 and hear Robin Ford do you go to a club 1:23:00.840 --> 1:23:02.759 and hear Larry Carlton. You could go to a club 1:23:02.800 --> 1:23:05.599 and here's some of the best musicians you'd ever heard 1:23:05.640 --> 1:23:08.160 in your life. And what I liked about it it 1:23:08.240 --> 1:23:14.000 was how much wider my experience became musically when I 1:23:14.000 --> 1:23:16.800 got out there. It wasn't it wasn't only just the 1:23:16.840 --> 1:23:20.679 bluegrass world. And I loved my bluegrass, but I don't 1:23:20.680 --> 1:23:22.320 think it was ever quite enough to hold me. 1:23:23.040 --> 1:23:23.240 You know. 1:23:23.280 --> 1:23:27.200 I liked trying to play soulful guitar and ben strings 1:23:27.240 --> 1:23:30.639 and those things. I like country picking guitar, chicken picking guitar, 1:23:30.720 --> 1:23:33.599 I liked flat picking guitar, I liked I liked all 1:23:33.640 --> 1:23:36.759 of it. Liked R and B, I liked soulful stuff, 1:23:36.800 --> 1:23:39.960 and so man, I just all I ever wanted it 1:23:40.000 --> 1:23:42.920 to be was authentic with whatever I was doing. If 1:23:42.960 --> 1:23:46.479 I was singing a soul song, I wanted soulful people 1:23:46.520 --> 1:23:48.320 to think, Hey, that guy's a soulful singer. 1:23:49.320 --> 1:24:02.240 You know, Okay, you've been should struggle earlier. Some people 1:24:02.320 --> 1:24:05.920 live somewhat of a charm life, but most musicians it's 1:24:05.960 --> 1:24:09.559 not a root straight to the top. So once you 1:24:09.640 --> 1:24:12.640 start playing as a professional and you moved to California. 1:24:12.680 --> 1:24:17.400 Are things falling in place? Or are you frustrated now? 1:24:17.560 --> 1:24:21.960 It was generally I always felt good about what I 1:24:22.040 --> 1:24:25.040 was doing, you know, and even if I was in 1:24:25.640 --> 1:24:28.479 a supporting cast role and not the focal point, that 1:24:28.560 --> 1:24:30.959 didn't bother me. I like just being part of the process. 1:24:31.000 --> 1:24:35.640 And I think that when I first started making my 1:24:35.680 --> 1:24:39.160 own records as a solo artist, I struggled, but I 1:24:39.200 --> 1:24:44.000 didn't mind struggling because I didn't have to be successful 1:24:44.040 --> 1:24:48.000 to survive. Because I was a decent enough musician, a 1:24:48.040 --> 1:24:51.679 decent enough session player, just enough decent enough session singer 1:24:52.280 --> 1:24:54.439 that I could work on people's records and make a living. 1:24:55.960 --> 1:24:59.120 So my end all to end all didn't have to 1:24:59.120 --> 1:25:00.799 be and hit records. 1:25:01.200 --> 1:25:01.400 You know. 1:25:01.760 --> 1:25:04.400 It eventually happened, and I was grateful when it finally did, 1:25:05.160 --> 1:25:07.960 but it didn't. It was not the reason. You know, 1:25:08.000 --> 1:25:10.439 And I don't know if I mentioned this earlier, but 1:25:10.960 --> 1:25:12.759 when I was young, I was the one that studied 1:25:12.800 --> 1:25:16.080 the back of records, who played on this I would buy. 1:25:16.200 --> 1:25:18.559 I would buy albums from people I didn't even know 1:25:18.560 --> 1:25:21.040 who they were because I saw a guitar player I 1:25:21.120 --> 1:25:24.280 admired that maybe played on that record, so well, maybe 1:25:24.320 --> 1:25:27.320 I'll check out what he did and learn something. And 1:25:27.320 --> 1:25:31.040 and so that led me down a path of once 1:25:31.080 --> 1:25:34.320 again not needing to be the focal point. Was was 1:25:34.360 --> 1:25:37.000 pretty helpful. I knew I was good enough that if 1:25:37.280 --> 1:25:39.479 I didn't have hits, I could go play in somebody's band. 1:25:40.080 --> 1:25:42.680 I got offered a job in dire Straits in the 1:25:42.720 --> 1:25:44.680 late eighties by Mark Knunflirt. 1:25:44.800 --> 1:25:47.479 Okay, okay, wait, you're talking about when they go on 1:25:47.520 --> 1:25:49.000 the last tour. Yeah. 1:25:49.040 --> 1:25:51.240 And and he came to see me play in New 1:25:51.320 --> 1:25:53.840 York City and he called me and he goes, hey, 1:25:53.840 --> 1:25:56.840 would you have any interest in coming and being in 1:25:56.920 --> 1:26:00.120 dire Straits. We're going on this world tour. And and 1:26:00.200 --> 1:26:02.040 you know, I'm struggling to pay for the house. It 1:26:02.040 --> 1:26:06.360 would have solved every financial problem I had. And at 1:26:06.360 --> 1:26:09.080 the same time, I was changing from RCAA Records to 1:26:09.200 --> 1:26:11.840 MCAA Records. I was going to go to work with 1:26:11.880 --> 1:26:15.719 my old friend Tony Brown, and I was being given 1:26:15.840 --> 1:26:17.880 a new shot. And I called him. I said, man, 1:26:17.880 --> 1:26:20.000 I don't know why I'm saying this, but I'm going 1:26:20.080 --> 1:26:24.320 to say no. He said why, I said, Well, he said, 1:26:24.320 --> 1:26:26.040 I'm getting ready to get a new shot at a 1:26:26.080 --> 1:26:29.160 new record company, and my ears tell me I'm good 1:26:29.280 --> 1:26:33.000 enough to be a part of this country music world. 1:26:33.800 --> 1:26:36.000 And if I don't bet on me, then I can't 1:26:36.640 --> 1:26:38.960 expect anybody else to. And if I take this job, 1:26:39.000 --> 1:26:42.080 it'll kind of be an admittance of failure for the 1:26:42.120 --> 1:26:44.599 last seven years, and I'm not sure I can do 1:26:44.640 --> 1:26:47.800 that to myself. So I'm gonna take a chance and 1:26:48.040 --> 1:26:51.439 make a new record and see if I can flip 1:26:51.479 --> 1:26:53.840 this thing. And lo and behold, I got lucky, and 1:26:53.880 --> 1:26:58.439 I did, but it wasn't really, it didn't happen right away. 1:26:58.479 --> 1:27:02.679 I'd released two singles from my first MCA record. One 1:27:02.760 --> 1:27:05.320 was a duet with Reeba and the other was a 1:27:05.320 --> 1:27:07.760 song I'd written with Roseanne Cash, which she also got, 1:27:07.840 --> 1:27:11.080 called Never Alone. And both of those singles did okay, 1:27:11.160 --> 1:27:13.000 but kind of a lot like the rest of my 1:27:13.080 --> 1:27:17.200 singles had done, you know, didn't find their way into 1:27:17.200 --> 1:27:20.080 the top ten or become a big smash, any of 1:27:20.120 --> 1:27:22.080 that kind of stuff. And then the third single was 1:27:22.200 --> 1:27:24.960 when I Call Your Name, and that's when everything flipped, 1:27:25.080 --> 1:27:29.000 everything changed, and that's the song that caught fire. 1:27:30.160 --> 1:27:33.040 Let's go back a step. How'd you end up in 1:27:33.120 --> 1:27:36.160 Pure Prairie League, and what were your thoughts. It is 1:27:36.200 --> 1:27:40.360 a band that had one Well, there's basically the same songs, 1:27:40.360 --> 1:27:43.800 two songs falling in out of Loving Amy that were 1:27:43.840 --> 1:27:47.080 never really singles, and the guy who wrote it was 1:27:47.120 --> 1:27:50.360 no longer in the band exactly. So how did this 1:27:50.560 --> 1:27:54.080 come to be and what were your thoughts about it? Well? 1:27:54.240 --> 1:27:56.120 I first met those guys when I was in high 1:27:56.120 --> 1:28:00.000 school and our band that I was in, Mountain Small, 1:28:00.280 --> 1:28:03.600 opened a show for them, and when they played in 1:28:03.600 --> 1:28:07.120 Oklahoma City in probably nineteen seventy four, and Amy had 1:28:07.640 --> 1:28:09.519 all of a sudden caught fire. You know, the original 1:28:09.560 --> 1:28:12.759 story of Amy. It was recorded in the early seventies, 1:28:12.760 --> 1:28:16.920 and then the band was dropped from the label and 1:28:17.720 --> 1:28:20.160 Craig had gone on to moved to Canada and left 1:28:20.160 --> 1:28:24.520 the band Craig Fuller who wrote and sang Amy. And 1:28:24.560 --> 1:28:26.679 then in the like seventy four or five, I can't 1:28:26.720 --> 1:28:29.920 remember what it was, this song catches fire with college 1:28:30.000 --> 1:28:33.200 radio stations all across the country, starts blowing up and 1:28:33.240 --> 1:28:36.840 becoming this big song, and so they go back and 1:28:36.920 --> 1:28:40.200 re sign the band to the record deal. They don't 1:28:40.240 --> 1:28:43.200 have Craig and his voice and his songs to follow 1:28:43.280 --> 1:28:45.920 up Amy with I think they would have probably had 1:28:45.920 --> 1:28:50.000 a bigger career had they had Craig. And so I'm 1:28:50.040 --> 1:28:53.479 living out in California. It's nineteen seventy eight, I think, 1:28:53.479 --> 1:28:55.639 and I was playing with Byron Berline, great fiddle player. 1:28:56.760 --> 1:29:00.680 Hired me to come out there, and a friend of 1:29:00.720 --> 1:29:04.080 mine called me up and said, hey, I'm going up 1:29:04.120 --> 1:29:06.960 to sir to audition for Pure Prairie League. You want 1:29:06.960 --> 1:29:09.400 to go? I go, sure, man, I'll go along with you. 1:29:09.760 --> 1:29:11.439 I said, I opened a show for those guys when 1:29:11.479 --> 1:29:14.120 I was in high school, and I'll just I'll go 1:29:14.200 --> 1:29:15.840 with you. It'd be fun to see him again. And 1:29:16.000 --> 1:29:18.320 so I went up there and he did his audition 1:29:18.400 --> 1:29:21.439 and they introduced myself and they said, aren't you that 1:29:21.520 --> 1:29:24.880 kid from Oklahoma that plays all the instruments? And I said, yeah, yeah, 1:29:24.960 --> 1:29:27.000 that's me. And they said will you be interested in 1:29:27.040 --> 1:29:29.840 this gig? And my friend's looking at me like thanks 1:29:29.880 --> 1:29:32.559 a lot, you know, and I said, no, I'm probably 1:29:32.560 --> 1:29:36.679 not playing with a guy firing here in Los Angeles, 1:29:36.720 --> 1:29:38.920 and I really like it. And they said, well, come 1:29:38.960 --> 1:29:41.439 up and jam with us tomorrow. Bring your stuff and 1:29:41.479 --> 1:29:43.519 come up and jam with us. So I went up 1:29:43.520 --> 1:29:46.280 there and I got to play play my guitar really 1:29:46.320 --> 1:29:48.880 loud and have some fun, and I said, well, maybe 1:29:48.880 --> 1:29:50.679 I will do this, you know. So I quit Byron 1:29:50.720 --> 1:29:55.080 and started playing with them, and we did three three records, 1:29:55.120 --> 1:29:58.240 I think three albums, and had one pretty good hit, 1:29:58.360 --> 1:30:01.040 let Me Love You Tonight nineteen eighty somewhat of a 1:30:01.040 --> 1:30:04.800 pop hit, and so that that was fun. He got 1:30:04.800 --> 1:30:08.120 me on an American Bandstand and solid Gold and a 1:30:08.200 --> 1:30:10.519 bunch of TV shows like Mike Douglas and Merv Griffin 1:30:10.600 --> 1:30:14.280 and Don Kirshner's Rock Concert and great learning experience for 1:30:14.360 --> 1:30:16.240 me to learn about the record industry a little bit 1:30:16.280 --> 1:30:19.200 and all that kind of stuff. And I wouldn't trade 1:30:19.240 --> 1:30:21.080 it for nothing. Good guys. 1:30:21.880 --> 1:30:28.559 Okay, Traditionally country has not been a catalog business. It's 1:30:28.600 --> 1:30:31.840 all been new frontline stuff. But in the Internet era, 1:30:32.120 --> 1:30:35.680 everything's completely different because everything you ever made is available 1:30:36.920 --> 1:30:41.840 at this late date. To what degree are your royalties 1:30:42.320 --> 1:30:45.840 significant from both publishing and now granted you did not 1:30:45.960 --> 1:30:49.679 only write songs for your own records, but in terms 1:30:49.680 --> 1:30:54.000 of record royalties and publishing royalties, how are those streams? 1:30:54.760 --> 1:30:56.680 I would think they're probably a good bit less than 1:30:56.720 --> 1:30:59.680 they used to be, but I would, you know, it'd 1:30:59.720 --> 1:31:02.760 be hard to compare because I haven't had a big 1:31:02.840 --> 1:31:05.240 number one record in twenty five years, twenty six years, 1:31:05.240 --> 1:31:08.799 something like that, so what I would know is minimal. 1:31:10.439 --> 1:31:14.519 I do know that it's the royalty rate. The digital 1:31:14.600 --> 1:31:18.680 royalty rate is somewhat unfair, you know, in comparison to 1:31:18.680 --> 1:31:21.920 what it used to be for terrestrial radio. And if 1:31:22.000 --> 1:31:24.880 some of those things could find their way to get fixed, 1:31:24.880 --> 1:31:28.280 it might might really benefit the songwriting community for there 1:31:28.280 --> 1:31:31.080 to be a little more shackles for evite has spread around. 1:31:32.920 --> 1:31:36.479 Do you still own all your rights? Pretty much? 1:31:36.560 --> 1:31:39.080 I partnered up with a guy named Jody Williams not 1:31:39.120 --> 1:31:43.439 too long ago, and like I said, the hit records 1:31:43.439 --> 1:31:46.920 had kind of faded away, and he called me one 1:31:47.280 --> 1:31:50.439 and I'd never had a publisher. I published myself because 1:31:50.479 --> 1:31:52.639 I had a place for all my songs and didn't 1:31:52.640 --> 1:31:55.400 see the need to split the money. And I wasn't 1:31:55.479 --> 1:31:58.120 keen on really pushing my songs to other people, and 1:31:58.520 --> 1:32:00.479 so I just kept them for myself and recorded him 1:32:00.520 --> 1:32:03.600 and had a great run and did well. But he 1:32:03.720 --> 1:32:05.639 called me four or five years ago and he said, 1:32:05.640 --> 1:32:08.760 you've never had anybody manage your songwriting. He said, I 1:32:08.760 --> 1:32:10.800 think you still have a lot to offer as a songwriter. 1:32:11.320 --> 1:32:14.240 Would you consider letting me manage your songwriting. 1:32:14.560 --> 1:32:15.080 For a while? 1:32:15.120 --> 1:32:16.880 I said, sure, it sounds like fun. And I'd known 1:32:16.920 --> 1:32:18.840 him for forty plus years and was a great friend. 1:32:19.760 --> 1:32:24.240 And so that turned into man a treasure trove of 1:32:24.280 --> 1:32:27.080 me being creative and writing a bunch of new songs. 1:32:27.600 --> 1:32:28.080 I wrote. 1:32:28.280 --> 1:32:30.360 I've probably written one hundred and fifty hundred and seventy 1:32:30.400 --> 1:32:33.720 five songs in the last four or five years, and 1:32:34.920 --> 1:32:37.719 I've got to telling myself, well, you should. You should 1:32:37.720 --> 1:32:40.240 get busy and put some of this stuff out, you know. 1:32:40.400 --> 1:32:43.400 So everybody likes a lot of content these days. And 1:32:43.439 --> 1:32:47.080 so I went in and I recorded over seventy songs 1:32:47.080 --> 1:32:50.000 and found a way to put them all out with 1:32:50.040 --> 1:32:53.040 these EPs. I'm doing an EP a month for a year, 1:32:53.720 --> 1:32:57.280 and it's the most creative stretch I've ever gone through. 1:32:58.120 --> 1:33:01.599 And I love it because I really like the songs 1:33:01.800 --> 1:33:03.880 and I think I'm doing quality work. 1:33:04.360 --> 1:33:07.160 Okay, so the EPs are coming out once a month, 1:33:07.560 --> 1:33:10.320 but all the stuff on the EPs was recorded in 1:33:10.360 --> 1:33:14.680 that seventy song burst, yes, sir, So nothing beyond that. 1:33:14.720 --> 1:33:16.559 It's just a matter of putting it out this way. 1:33:16.920 --> 1:33:19.439 Yeah, I try to stay ahead of the next EP, 1:33:20.479 --> 1:33:22.680 you know, Like I've got six of them out. I 1:33:22.840 --> 1:33:27.160 just finished last week mixing number seven. It's coming out 1:33:27.200 --> 1:33:31.640 May eighth, and so I just keep myself ahead of 1:33:31.680 --> 1:33:35.120 the next one coming out. And I'm loving the process. 1:33:35.160 --> 1:33:38.679 I'm working harder than I've ever worked, probably in my life. 1:33:39.439 --> 1:33:43.360 But at this point I realized I don't have as 1:33:43.400 --> 1:33:45.800 much time to be creative left as I've had to 1:33:45.800 --> 1:33:48.680 this point. So it matters so much more to me 1:33:48.760 --> 1:33:51.439 now than maybe it ever did. So I really want 1:33:51.520 --> 1:33:54.679 to take advantage of still having my faculty, still being 1:33:54.680 --> 1:33:56.720 able to sing as well as I ever did and 1:33:56.720 --> 1:33:59.160 play as well as I ever did. Songs are cool, 1:33:59.200 --> 1:34:00.200 So I'm having a ball. 1:34:00.600 --> 1:34:03.639 To what degree do you view these because you set 1:34:03.680 --> 1:34:07.439 it up, you're working with the gentlemen publishing. To what 1:34:07.520 --> 1:34:12.200 degree do you see them as publishing demos or as 1:34:12.320 --> 1:34:13.480 songs themselves? 1:34:14.200 --> 1:34:17.400 I see them as masters. They're being released by MCA Records, 1:34:17.400 --> 1:34:20.519 and I signed a lifetime deal with them not too 1:34:20.560 --> 1:34:21.000 long ago. 1:34:21.080 --> 1:34:23.920 They win What the hell is a lifetime deal? 1:34:24.320 --> 1:34:26.240 They just said, we want you for the rest of 1:34:26.280 --> 1:34:28.840 your life. If you have something you record you want 1:34:28.840 --> 1:34:30.200 to put out, we want to be the ones to 1:34:30.200 --> 1:34:33.320 put it out. And it's to me, it's a testament 1:34:33.360 --> 1:34:35.920 to the loyalty we've had for each other for thirty 1:34:35.920 --> 1:34:36.519 seven years. 1:34:36.560 --> 1:34:39.800 Now. You know, okay, you know in California there's a 1:34:39.880 --> 1:34:43.280 question of legality. You signed a piece of paper, say I, 1:34:43.400 --> 1:34:47.439 then skill and betrothed to MCA Records till if pass 1:34:48.000 --> 1:34:48.559 pretty much. 1:34:49.360 --> 1:34:51.679 But they but they also have in there that if 1:34:52.080 --> 1:34:53.479 if they don't want to put it out, you can 1:34:53.479 --> 1:34:56.880 do whatever you want to with it. So it's more 1:34:56.920 --> 1:34:59.519 than fair and more than reasonable. And I don't know 1:34:59.520 --> 1:35:01.840 all the detail. I played the guitar. My dad was 1:35:01.880 --> 1:35:02.840 a lawyer, but I wasn't. 1:35:03.600 --> 1:35:07.800 Let's go back. We were talking about the royalties and 1:35:07.840 --> 1:35:12.560 you said you weren't sure. Are you just being evasive 1:35:12.880 --> 1:35:15.439 or are you no? You don't really know where your 1:35:15.520 --> 1:35:16.320 money is and. 1:35:16.320 --> 1:35:19.920 What's going on to a point, but I know what 1:35:20.040 --> 1:35:22.639 I don't know, you know, and I know I don't 1:35:22.680 --> 1:35:26.160 know a lot about the financial world. And I'm not 1:35:26.200 --> 1:35:28.680 an investor. I don't play the stocks, I don't do 1:35:28.720 --> 1:35:31.639 anything risky. I'm just grateful for the money I've made 1:35:31.640 --> 1:35:34.720 playing music. Well, who's managing your money. Then I've had 1:35:34.760 --> 1:35:40.400 the same same business manager for forty two years now. 1:35:41.560 --> 1:35:43.840 Well, I mean, the money can't sit in the bank. 1:35:43.880 --> 1:35:46.440 You're losing money on the money. You must have investments. 1:35:46.439 --> 1:35:47.120 At some times. 1:35:47.439 --> 1:35:49.800 We're doing a few things, but it's not once again, 1:35:49.840 --> 1:35:52.600 it's like in bonds and municipal bonds and things like 1:35:52.640 --> 1:35:54.960 that that are not risky and not safe. And we 1:35:55.000 --> 1:35:57.920 don't go out and take a flyer and take a 1:35:57.920 --> 1:35:59.680 bunch of money and throw at somebody that says they 1:35:59.680 --> 1:36:00.760 can make a bunch of money. 1:36:00.800 --> 1:36:02.920 I don't. I'm not much of it. I'm not a. 1:36:04.720 --> 1:36:06.800 I hate it just sounds stupid to say, but I'm 1:36:06.800 --> 1:36:09.639 not that interested in money, you know. I like cheering 1:36:09.680 --> 1:36:11.800 my friends on, helping my friends out when they need help. 1:36:11.840 --> 1:36:14.439 And and I know I'm in good shape. Every now 1:36:14.439 --> 1:36:16.680 and then I would get a little I'd go a 1:36:16.680 --> 1:36:19.400 little crazy buying old guitars, you know. And I spent 1:36:19.479 --> 1:36:22.639 a fortune buying old guitarist And my buddy Chuck, who 1:36:22.720 --> 1:36:25.160 was he passed away a couple of years ago, that 1:36:25.400 --> 1:36:29.280 was the head of the management business management company. He 1:36:29.280 --> 1:36:31.120 would call me and he would put me in time out. 1:36:31.439 --> 1:36:34.200 He said, you're you're going a little bit crazy and 1:36:34.200 --> 1:36:36.679 you're spending too much money on guitars. And I said, okay, 1:36:37.040 --> 1:36:40.280 so I'd be on being time out for a while. 1:36:40.360 --> 1:36:41.920 Then he calls say, you're okay if you want to 1:36:42.200 --> 1:36:45.120 go get something. And then when I ten years ago, 1:36:45.160 --> 1:36:50.120 I started playing with with with the boys, and he'd 1:36:50.120 --> 1:36:52.320 called me one time and he goes, I see you 1:36:52.360 --> 1:36:54.160 just bought a guitar, and I go yeah, and he goes, 1:36:54.520 --> 1:36:56.639 you can buy whatever you want. You're playing with those guys. Now, 1:36:56.640 --> 1:36:57.160 you're fine. 1:36:58.760 --> 1:37:01.920 How many guitars do you own? Oh, probably two hundred 1:37:01.920 --> 1:37:03.800 and fifty. And where are they? 1:37:04.320 --> 1:37:06.759 They're right around the corner. They're all in my studio 1:37:07.400 --> 1:37:08.080 here at the house. 1:37:08.920 --> 1:37:13.200 Okay. Collecting guitar is totally different. In the sixties and seventies, 1:37:13.280 --> 1:37:16.960 English musicians come to America, go to pawn shops wherever 1:37:17.000 --> 1:37:22.240 they were. Now everything nothing's rare anymore. Everything's available online. Ay, 1:37:22.840 --> 1:37:24.840 how do you decide what to buy? 1:37:26.080 --> 1:37:29.880 Well, there are certain examples that you know are collectible, 1:37:30.200 --> 1:37:33.360 you know are desirable, that you know are rare, and 1:37:33.439 --> 1:37:35.760 all those things kind of factor into it, and they 1:37:35.800 --> 1:37:38.679 also affect the price. You know, there's plenty of instruments 1:37:38.680 --> 1:37:40.840 out there that are in the high six figures that 1:37:40.920 --> 1:37:43.080 you'll pay for them if you want to buy one, 1:37:43.760 --> 1:37:46.799 and that you know it's because they're scarce. It's because 1:37:46.840 --> 1:37:50.160 they're completely desirable, and they sound better than just about 1:37:50.200 --> 1:37:54.280 anything you can ever play. So I've i've, i've, I've 1:37:54.280 --> 1:37:56.519 bitten the bullet a time or two on things that 1:37:56.560 --> 1:37:58.360 I never would have expected I would have spent that 1:37:58.439 --> 1:37:59.200 much money on. 1:38:00.000 --> 1:38:03.080 Getting the money. Yeah, did the instrument live up to 1:38:03.120 --> 1:38:03.800 the rep. 1:38:04.080 --> 1:38:07.760 Absolutely, But I know what I'm looking for too. You know, 1:38:07.840 --> 1:38:11.280 I don't buy for quantity. I've never bought a guitar 1:38:11.360 --> 1:38:13.840 that didn't speak to me, that didn't play well and 1:38:13.960 --> 1:38:17.600 sound well and inspire me. What's cool about all of 1:38:17.640 --> 1:38:20.720 these instruments is they have songs in them, they have 1:38:20.800 --> 1:38:24.280 melodies in them, they have music in them. And so 1:38:25.120 --> 1:38:27.599 I'm a collector of sorts, but I'm also a player. 1:38:28.760 --> 1:38:33.280 So I'm taking these things that oftentimes would wind up 1:38:33.280 --> 1:38:37.480 in a glass case and never be heard again, and 1:38:37.080 --> 1:38:41.040 I'm letting them continue to livet letting them continue to 1:38:41.080 --> 1:38:43.320 do what they were intended to do, was to make music. 1:38:44.479 --> 1:38:47.200 And so I can't think of anything I could have 1:38:47.240 --> 1:38:49.920 done wiser or smarter with my money. I get to 1:38:49.960 --> 1:38:53.320 write them off my taxes and they appreciate value. And 1:38:53.360 --> 1:38:56.519 there's no risk, you know, unless the guitar market tank someday, 1:38:56.560 --> 1:38:58.920 which it never really has, and I don't know that 1:38:58.960 --> 1:38:59.559 it ever will. 1:39:00.080 --> 1:39:02.880 So what are you on the lookout for now? I 1:39:02.920 --> 1:39:07.040 have no clue. Just it just shows up. 1:39:07.080 --> 1:39:09.240 And there's a bunch of these cats around the country 1:39:09.240 --> 1:39:11.439 that that know me and know what I like to 1:39:11.439 --> 1:39:13.840 buy and this, and that they find me so I 1:39:13.880 --> 1:39:17.080 don't have to look real hard. They come knocking on 1:39:17.160 --> 1:39:18.840 my email very very frequently. 1:39:19.400 --> 1:39:21.880 And are you like a Gibson or a Fender guy 1:39:22.240 --> 1:39:22.759 or your. 1:39:24.360 --> 1:39:29.800 Dem all of the above, Gibbs, Gibson, Fender, Martin, you 1:39:29.880 --> 1:39:32.880 name it. There's so many great makers, Gretch, you know, 1:39:34.640 --> 1:39:36.800 tons of great stuff, you know, and some of this 1:39:36.840 --> 1:39:39.519 stuff is over one hundred years old that I've collected, 1:39:40.360 --> 1:39:45.160 and you know, they're just they're beautiful. There's just something 1:39:45.520 --> 1:39:49.160 magical about an instrument that you can buy something that 1:39:49.200 --> 1:39:52.400 you can make a joyful noise on. You know, they're special. 1:39:53.200 --> 1:39:55.439 So everyone is different. But what are your three to 1:39:55.560 --> 1:39:57.160 five go tos? 1:39:57.720 --> 1:40:01.600 I have a white Fender telecaster that I bought in 1:40:01.680 --> 1:40:05.000 nineteen seventy eight. It's the first Fender guitar I think 1:40:05.040 --> 1:40:07.400 I ever bought, and I didn't pay very much money 1:40:07.439 --> 1:40:09.280 for it. I got it for four hundred and fifty dollars. 1:40:09.680 --> 1:40:12.200 Did you buy it newer? Use? Now? I bought it used? 1:40:12.760 --> 1:40:15.000 So what year I mean because CBS bought in the 1:40:15.000 --> 1:40:15.519 middle of that. 1:40:15.880 --> 1:40:18.559 Yeah, in the late sixties they bought the Fender company. 1:40:18.560 --> 1:40:23.799 This was nineteen fifty three when they first started making instruments. 1:40:23.800 --> 1:40:26.800 In nineteen fifty I think, is when they started making guitars. 1:40:27.240 --> 1:40:30.599 And you know, I just I got a love for him. 1:40:30.680 --> 1:40:35.080 And if what's interesting about is an instrument is it 1:40:35.120 --> 1:40:38.000 will inspire you to play it the way it wants 1:40:38.040 --> 1:40:41.360 to be played. You can't just force yourself on an instrument. 1:40:42.040 --> 1:40:44.519 You have to let it do what it wants to do. 1:40:44.600 --> 1:40:48.360 Too. There's a there's a neat balance in that. Okay, 1:40:48.400 --> 1:40:50.280 that's the way telecaster? What else? 1:40:50.400 --> 1:40:54.360 Yeah, I'm Martin D twenty eight that was made in 1:40:54.439 --> 1:40:57.880 nineteen forty two. When I moved away from home, I 1:40:57.920 --> 1:40:59.960 had a newer Martin that was okay, it wasn't great. 1:41:01.000 --> 1:41:03.240 And when I moved away from home, moved to Louisville. 1:41:03.560 --> 1:41:06.559 I wanted an old, pre war Martin guitar because that's 1:41:06.600 --> 1:41:10.360 what all self respecting bluegrass players wanted to play. And 1:41:10.479 --> 1:41:13.320 I found this guitar at a bluegrass festival. And I'm 1:41:13.320 --> 1:41:17.160 eighteen and I found this guitar, and in nineteen seventy five, 1:41:17.200 --> 1:41:19.320 it was twenty five hundred dollars. I had a big 1:41:19.680 --> 1:41:21.360 sign on the side of the case and that was 1:41:21.920 --> 1:41:23.800 top of the mark in that it would have been 1:41:23.840 --> 1:41:26.400 by a mile. And I asked the guy, I said, man, 1:41:26.400 --> 1:41:28.360 can I see that guitar, because can you afford it? 1:41:28.439 --> 1:41:30.400 I said, probably not, that's sure, like to see it. 1:41:31.240 --> 1:41:33.960 Opened the case up. It was beautiful condition, and it 1:41:34.000 --> 1:41:36.840 was made nineteen forty twos. It was thirty thirty three 1:41:36.960 --> 1:41:39.680 years old at that point. And I said, was you 1:41:39.720 --> 1:41:43.080 consider a trade, because not an even trade, but if 1:41:43.120 --> 1:41:45.360 you'll give me your guitar and give me sixteen hundred 1:41:45.360 --> 1:41:48.040 and fifty bucks, I'll trade you. I said, okay. So 1:41:48.080 --> 1:41:50.960 I wrote him a check for sixteen hundred and fifty bucks. 1:41:50.960 --> 1:41:53.599 And that was all the money I'd saved from all 1:41:53.600 --> 1:41:56.799 my gigs, my college fund, everything i'd save for my future. 1:41:57.520 --> 1:41:59.840 I spent on that guitar. And I told you earlier. 1:41:59.880 --> 1:42:02.240 My I rent was fifteen dollars a month, so I 1:42:02.240 --> 1:42:04.400 wrote him a check. I was dead broke, had no money, 1:42:05.400 --> 1:42:07.960 but I only had to pay fifteen bucks a month, 1:42:08.200 --> 1:42:10.040 and I could make a couple hundred bucks when I 1:42:10.080 --> 1:42:12.720 got when the band worked, and so I said, I'll 1:42:12.760 --> 1:42:15.320 be all right. So I started out dead broke, and 1:42:15.360 --> 1:42:19.479 I had a great pre war instrument that I still 1:42:19.520 --> 1:42:24.320 have to this day. And that's a precious My first one. 1:42:24.400 --> 1:42:26.720 I told you about my Gibson three thirty five and 1:42:26.760 --> 1:42:29.639 I got when I was ten, is precious, sentimental everge. 1:42:29.920 --> 1:42:32.639 When I was, you know, nineteen twenty twenty one, i'd 1:42:32.760 --> 1:42:35.080 occasionally call my old man say I'm thinking about trading 1:42:35.120 --> 1:42:37.400 my red guitar in on something. He goes, son, don't 1:42:37.400 --> 1:42:39.800 ever get rid of your first guitar. You can never 1:42:39.840 --> 1:42:42.479 replace your first guitar. So he always talked me into 1:42:42.560 --> 1:42:45.080 keeping it. I'm gratefully, did it means everything to me? 1:42:46.120 --> 1:42:48.840 Okay, couple more, A couple more. 1:42:48.880 --> 1:42:55.639 I got a a less Paul, a sunburst less Paul 1:42:55.680 --> 1:42:58.719 from nineteen fifty nine. Wow, that was my ex brother 1:42:58.760 --> 1:43:02.719 in laws. I was married the first time my wife 1:43:02.800 --> 1:43:05.000 had a sister that was married to this guy, Leonard Arnold, 1:43:05.479 --> 1:43:11.160 Texas guitar player, and he'd had this guitar since nineteen 1:43:11.240 --> 1:43:14.960 sixty eight and I'd never bought one of the Sunburst 1:43:15.000 --> 1:43:17.719 less balls. Those were the highest mark of the marks 1:43:17.760 --> 1:43:19.519 for guitars that you could buy, and they were a 1:43:19.560 --> 1:43:21.719 lot of money, and I'd never bought one. I didn't 1:43:21.720 --> 1:43:24.960 play a last ball much. And then he called me 1:43:25.000 --> 1:43:28.360 some years ago and he said, man, I just got 1:43:28.360 --> 1:43:30.080 bad news. I got cancer and I'm not going to 1:43:30.160 --> 1:43:32.920 make it. Will you buy my Burst? And I said, 1:43:32.920 --> 1:43:35.640 of course I will. I said, if you'll take it 1:43:35.680 --> 1:43:38.280 down to George or somebody George grew and as a 1:43:38.360 --> 1:43:41.320 vintaged guitar shop down, have him praise it. I'll pay 1:43:41.360 --> 1:43:44.160 you whatever he praises it for. So he praised it, 1:43:44.200 --> 1:43:46.160 and I gave him the money. And because I bought 1:43:46.160 --> 1:43:48.479 that guitar from him, he was able to save his 1:43:48.560 --> 1:43:51.439 house for my first wife's sister and they were okay, 1:43:51.560 --> 1:43:53.840 you know, and he since passed. But what was cool 1:43:53.880 --> 1:43:59.280 about that guitar was when he was in California, he 1:43:59.320 --> 1:44:01.760 was in a band called Blue Steel, and one of 1:44:01.760 --> 1:44:04.120 the guys in Blue Steel was a guy named Richard 1:44:04.120 --> 1:44:07.519 Bowden who was Don Henley's best friend growing up, first 1:44:07.560 --> 1:44:10.760 music friend, I think Don had. They played together in 1:44:10.800 --> 1:44:14.439 that band called Shiloh, and so they were going to 1:44:14.520 --> 1:44:16.800 open some shows for the Eagles when they did the 1:44:16.840 --> 1:44:19.960 Long Run Tour in nineteen eighty and Leonard played that 1:44:20.040 --> 1:44:24.240 guitar with the Eagles back then, and so I bought 1:44:24.280 --> 1:44:26.360 it and I got to play it with the Eagles again, 1:44:26.880 --> 1:44:29.639 you know, a million years later, same guitar, and so 1:44:29.680 --> 1:44:33.640 that's kind of pretty neat history and sentimental kind of 1:44:33.640 --> 1:44:37.880 attachment to it. And my gosh, I bought up an 1:44:37.880 --> 1:44:41.080 old strata Fender stratocaster from nineteen fifty nine that was 1:44:41.240 --> 1:44:45.320 Duayne Eddies brand new Wow. And he bought it brand 1:44:45.320 --> 1:44:47.720 new and never played it. He never found his way 1:44:47.720 --> 1:44:51.120 around to playing a Fender stratocaster, and so he gave 1:44:51.160 --> 1:44:53.240 it to his son, and his son played it for 1:44:53.280 --> 1:44:55.839 his whole life and sold it to me about fifteen 1:44:55.840 --> 1:44:58.600 twenty years ago. And it's my favorite strat I have 1:44:58.680 --> 1:45:02.800 plenty of stratocasters, this is the one that speaks the most, 1:45:02.800 --> 1:45:05.160 and I play the most on records and when I 1:45:05.200 --> 1:45:05.719 play live. 1:45:06.320 --> 1:45:09.599 Okay, if you go back to the old era fifty 1:45:09.800 --> 1:45:13.600 sixty seventies, even into the eighties, it could have the 1:45:13.680 --> 1:45:17.280 same model name on it and each instrument sounded different. 1:45:17.840 --> 1:45:20.960 Sure is that still the same with the modern instruments. 1:45:21.400 --> 1:45:21.840 I think so. 1:45:22.320 --> 1:45:25.240 I think every instrument is its own, you know, and 1:45:25.280 --> 1:45:28.400 you can same guy can make the same instrum, but 1:45:28.400 --> 1:45:30.000 it's always going to be a different piece of wood, 1:45:30.840 --> 1:45:32.759 you know. It's it's never going to be the same. 1:45:33.720 --> 1:45:36.160 So they all go together different, they all play different, 1:45:36.160 --> 1:45:39.439 they all sound different. It's the same make and model 1:45:39.479 --> 1:45:41.799 and all the same parts. And you think an electric 1:45:42.320 --> 1:45:45.519 guitar just would sound like an electric guitar, but they don't, 1:45:45.800 --> 1:45:49.639 you know, they really sound different. Acoustically. I always can 1:45:49.680 --> 1:45:52.920 tell a lot about an electric guitar hearing it acoustically, 1:45:53.080 --> 1:45:55.719 whether it has any life in it or not. Well, 1:45:55.760 --> 1:45:58.280 it will always transfer. If it has life in it acoustically, 1:45:58.320 --> 1:46:02.360 it will electrically too. And so, you know, looking for 1:46:02.400 --> 1:46:05.840 all those kinds of things, neck profiles, neck size, playability, 1:46:05.880 --> 1:46:09.559 all those kinds of things are paramount and finding old instruments, 1:46:09.600 --> 1:46:12.320 they're not all great. That's the beauty of it. Just 1:46:12.360 --> 1:46:16.000 because something old is some something is old doesn't mean 1:46:16.040 --> 1:46:20.400 it's great, And there were plenty of times that tar 1:46:20.439 --> 1:46:23.200 makers missed, you know, maybe the piece of wood was dead, 1:46:23.280 --> 1:46:25.320 or maybe the guy was high when he made it, 1:46:25.439 --> 1:46:29.080 or who knows what, you know, and it's all it's 1:46:29.120 --> 1:46:31.599 all part of it, you know. But like I said earlier, 1:46:31.640 --> 1:46:34.920 I never I never picked up something that I didn't 1:46:35.000 --> 1:46:36.600 like the way it played and sang, just because it 1:46:36.680 --> 1:46:39.080 might have been a good deal or a good price for. 1:46:39.080 --> 1:46:42.519 Something or what have you. And what about amps? Same thing? 1:46:42.960 --> 1:46:45.720 You know, they're all they all look alike, they all 1:46:45.760 --> 1:46:48.280 got tubes in them, They all, you know, do the 1:46:48.320 --> 1:46:51.240 same thing, but they all sound different, you know, and 1:46:51.280 --> 1:46:56.320 you're you're It's what's fun is there's a constant search 1:46:57.000 --> 1:47:01.559 to sound better, and it never stops. I still buy 1:47:01.560 --> 1:47:05.120 old amps to this day. I still try different settings. 1:47:05.160 --> 1:47:08.040 I try different amps, I try different guitars. I love 1:47:08.080 --> 1:47:11.200 to experiment. When you find a great combination of a 1:47:11.680 --> 1:47:16.439 great amp and a great guitar, many they work in. Yeah, 1:47:16.760 --> 1:47:18.800 I've got. I don't have as many apps as I 1:47:18.840 --> 1:47:21.439 do guitars, but I don't think I need quite as 1:47:21.479 --> 1:47:30.200 many apps as I do guitars. 1:47:31.240 --> 1:47:33.760 Okay, let's talk about the Eagles for a second they 1:47:33.800 --> 1:47:35.800 put out The Long Road Out of Eat in two 1:47:35.880 --> 1:47:38.760 thousand and seven, Don put out Cast County I Be 1:47:38.840 --> 1:47:43.960 Lievest twenty fourteen. There hasn't been any new Eagles material. 1:47:44.120 --> 1:47:47.000 Joe's done some stuff. I'm making a general point. It's 1:47:47.000 --> 1:47:50.240 really not about the Eagles. A lot of those bands 1:47:50.760 --> 1:47:54.880 have ceased putting out new material, many because they know 1:47:55.000 --> 1:47:58.760 the marketplace has changed, and even if they put out 1:47:58.760 --> 1:48:02.640 something as good as their class era, it's almost impossible 1:48:02.640 --> 1:48:06.479 to have those same level of success in recognition as 1:48:06.640 --> 1:48:14.120 someone who's there contemporary? Is it hard to get motivated? 1:48:14.400 --> 1:48:17.040 Like you're putting out these EPs? Turn them motivated to 1:48:17.120 --> 1:48:20.960 do new material because inherently, you know, the odds of 1:48:21.080 --> 1:48:25.760 being as successful is even your stiff material are really. 1:48:25.520 --> 1:48:29.000 Long and Neil, Yeah, of course I do. But you know, 1:48:29.040 --> 1:48:32.160 I just keep telling myself that's that's not the reason 1:48:32.200 --> 1:48:32.840 I ever did it. 1:48:34.439 --> 1:48:34.640 You know. 1:48:34.920 --> 1:48:36.920 The reason I did it is because of what it 1:48:37.000 --> 1:48:40.360 spoke to me inside of me, and I will I 1:48:40.400 --> 1:48:43.479 will never quit trying to make music unless I start 1:48:43.479 --> 1:48:46.320 weising like a like an old woman or something. Someday 1:48:46.360 --> 1:48:51.599 I might, but until that day, I'm gonna I guess 1:48:51.640 --> 1:48:54.719 I'm doing it for me, you know, and if anybody 1:48:54.720 --> 1:48:57.519 wants to come along, I'm grateful, you know. I tell 1:48:57.560 --> 1:48:59.960 people now when I go play live on my own shows, 1:49:00.400 --> 1:49:02.200 I go, look, I'm going to play for a long 1:49:02.280 --> 1:49:06.360 time because I love it. And I think that if 1:49:06.800 --> 1:49:08.759 you're paying as much as you are for a ticket, 1:49:09.040 --> 1:49:10.599 you ought to get as much as you can stand. 1:49:10.640 --> 1:49:12.880 And I want to play for a long time. If 1:49:12.880 --> 1:49:15.320 you want to leave, You're not going to hurt my feelings. 1:49:15.760 --> 1:49:18.480 I said, I'm going to play for a good while regardless, 1:49:19.240 --> 1:49:20.559 and I just. 1:49:20.560 --> 1:49:24.759 Think that I keep that in the forefront of my mind. 1:49:24.800 --> 1:49:26.160 I don't you know. 1:49:26.240 --> 1:49:28.880 I heard Kenny Rogers say something one time that really 1:49:29.200 --> 1:49:31.760 just took me down. Thought it was so cool and 1:49:31.800 --> 1:49:36.120 so so important, and he hadn't made a new record 1:49:36.240 --> 1:49:43.120 in years and years and years and years, and somebody 1:49:43.160 --> 1:49:45.800 asked him, I said, you've made a new record, and 1:49:45.920 --> 1:49:47.840 Kenny said, yeah, yeah, I got that. I wanted to 1:49:47.880 --> 1:49:50.479 make a new record. And he goes the interviewer said, 1:49:50.479 --> 1:49:56.519 are you hoping it's successful? And Kenny smiled and he goes, no, no. 1:49:56.360 --> 1:49:56.760 Not really. 1:49:56.840 --> 1:50:00.400 He said, I've had records that have been successful. He said, 1:50:00.439 --> 1:50:03.920 what I want this record to be is significant, and 1:50:03.960 --> 1:50:05.920 I just went, wow, there's my marching orders. 1:50:07.600 --> 1:50:12.799 Those are my marching orders. So that's just me. Okay, 1:50:13.160 --> 1:50:17.280 you have the marching order on your way up. You 1:50:17.320 --> 1:50:20.080 know you have a hunger. You want to prove yourself. 1:50:20.080 --> 1:50:24.160 We talked about, you know, playing golf, etc. Can you 1:50:24.280 --> 1:50:29.320 get yourself in that same headspace recording today? 1:50:30.160 --> 1:50:33.400 I think so, you know, and once again you know 1:50:33.479 --> 1:50:37.880 the the real truth is. And I don't It sounds 1:50:38.000 --> 1:50:40.160 arrogant almost to say, but I'm doing it for me. 1:50:41.320 --> 1:50:44.640 So I'm doing it to move me first, and I 1:50:44.680 --> 1:50:47.280 feel like if I can't move me, then I can't 1:50:47.360 --> 1:50:50.479 move you. I can't move anybody else. So that's where 1:50:50.479 --> 1:50:53.120 it has to That's where it kind of all begins 1:50:53.160 --> 1:50:56.680 and ends for me, is I'm doing this for my 1:50:56.800 --> 1:50:59.280 love of it, and whoever comes along come home if 1:50:59.280 --> 1:51:01.240 you want too, fine, but you're not. It's not going 1:51:01.320 --> 1:51:04.880 to deter me from wanting to do it, you know. 1:51:05.000 --> 1:51:09.320 Okay, So you've put out six of these EPs. I 1:51:09.360 --> 1:51:12.639 think at this point in time, what's the experience been. 1:51:15.520 --> 1:51:18.439 You know, I've I mean, would I love to see 1:51:18.439 --> 1:51:21.120 it blow up and so many as the records? Of 1:51:21.120 --> 1:51:24.439 course I would, But I know that's not realistic. And 1:51:25.640 --> 1:51:29.760 you want any time you do this, whether it's making 1:51:29.800 --> 1:51:33.240 a record or playing a gig, you just want somebody 1:51:33.280 --> 1:51:37.320 to respond. And that's all that they're that's all that 1:51:37.360 --> 1:51:42.479 you're hoping for. Somebody hears it, and somebody is taking 1:51:42.479 --> 1:51:45.200 a story that you've written and go, Man, that pertains 1:51:45.200 --> 1:51:47.680 to my life. You've you've helped me get through a 1:51:47.720 --> 1:51:51.479 hard time. You've helped me get through a struggle, you know, 1:51:51.520 --> 1:51:54.240 And that's that's a powerful feeling. If you can have 1:51:54.280 --> 1:51:57.680 an impact on somebody's life in a way that's profound. 1:51:58.320 --> 1:51:58.519 You know. 1:51:59.120 --> 1:52:01.160 Yeah, you can have a fun song, everybody likes it, 1:52:01.160 --> 1:52:05.800 sings along, but if you really you know, the one 1:52:05.840 --> 1:52:08.280 song I think that I probably will be most known 1:52:08.320 --> 1:52:10.320 for in my life is go Rest high on that mountain. 1:52:10.800 --> 1:52:13.439 It's been sung at so many services and funerals and 1:52:13.479 --> 1:52:17.160 memorials and whatnot. And what I know that it's done, 1:52:18.120 --> 1:52:20.840 what I'm grateful for is that it's helped somebody get 1:52:20.840 --> 1:52:23.479 through a hard time. If you get to do that, 1:52:23.760 --> 1:52:26.120 that's there's no better feeling, I don't think than that. 1:52:27.640 --> 1:52:30.120 Okay, in the old days, I say there was a 1:52:30.240 --> 1:52:32.960 huge separation between the people on stage and the people 1:52:33.000 --> 1:52:37.320 in the crowd today. I mean, I can't believe it. 1:52:37.360 --> 1:52:42.599 I saw Van Morrison on TikTok, never mind Todd Rungrin 1:52:42.160 --> 1:52:48.400 and other people. Okay, so yes, in the old days, 1:52:49.560 --> 1:52:52.679 there would be points where people in the community radio, 1:52:53.000 --> 1:52:55.640 maybe play a gig, would talk about it would respond 1:52:56.760 --> 1:53:01.879 to what degree is a result of modern communications methods? 1:53:02.600 --> 1:53:08.160 Do you get the response directly from the audience? Oh? 1:53:08.320 --> 1:53:10.439 Just think in the moment you get the response from 1:53:10.479 --> 1:53:15.200 an audience. You can't from them finding you on Instagram 1:53:15.320 --> 1:53:19.439 or TikToker, Facebook or wherever they find YouTube or whatever. 1:53:19.479 --> 1:53:21.479 All the formats are. I tell people all the time, 1:53:21.520 --> 1:53:24.160 I said, trust me, little Jimmy Dickens would have been 1:53:24.200 --> 1:53:27.400 on American Idol had it been there in nineteen forty eight. 1:53:28.120 --> 1:53:32.280 You know, everybody's just still trying to find the way 1:53:32.320 --> 1:53:36.599 to communicate, the way to connect. You know, it's what 1:53:36.640 --> 1:53:39.080 we were meant to do as people, as a race 1:53:41.120 --> 1:53:43.360 is you know, that's the best feeling in the world 1:53:43.400 --> 1:53:47.920 is connection. And however the format is that you find 1:53:47.920 --> 1:53:51.000 a way to connect that to me is not is irrelevant, 1:53:51.760 --> 1:53:57.160 you know, And so I'm not up there posting stuff 1:53:57.200 --> 1:54:00.400 about me all the time, but the office is so 1:54:00.479 --> 1:54:02.479 I'm still a part of it, you know, even though 1:54:02.479 --> 1:54:04.840 I'm not the one doing it, and I'm sure Van 1:54:05.040 --> 1:54:08.360 is not the one recording the video whatever he is. 1:54:08.640 --> 1:54:10.479 Well, well, you know, I don't know. He's probably not 1:54:10.520 --> 1:54:14.599 posting it, but it's him talking into the screen fair enough. 1:54:14.680 --> 1:54:19.040 But he's probably getting some help, I know, I right, Well, 1:54:19.080 --> 1:54:21.560 even Trump probably gets some help. So to what degree 1:54:22.320 --> 1:54:26.840 do you feel? I mean, because authenticity and credibility rule. 1:54:27.360 --> 1:54:29.360 It's one thing to take you have someone take care 1:54:29.960 --> 1:54:34.480 of the process, but there are companies that basically the 1:54:34.560 --> 1:54:37.040 acts are pretty much removed. They're saying, you know, these 1:54:37.040 --> 1:54:40.040 are the tour dates, this is this is what they did. 1:54:40.360 --> 1:54:42.520 So to what degree if someone follows you, are they 1:54:42.560 --> 1:54:43.440 going to really know you? 1:54:44.800 --> 1:54:46.880 Well, they have to know that I've never posted a 1:54:46.880 --> 1:54:51.520 word on any social media platform on earth and never will. 1:54:51.960 --> 1:54:55.680 I'm not responding to them if they send me a PM. 1:54:55.760 --> 1:54:57.920 Is that what you call it? Private message? Or so? 1:54:58.000 --> 1:55:00.120 I don't even know what all those things are. But 1:55:01.440 --> 1:55:07.680 I've sadly had people get scammed saying to someone that 1:55:07.840 --> 1:55:10.720 it was me posing as me saying they want to 1:55:10.720 --> 1:55:13.280 have a relationship with me, and blah blah blah, and 1:55:13.280 --> 1:55:15.040 and built them out of money. And I've seen them 1:55:15.080 --> 1:55:17.640 do that, you know. And once again, technology for the 1:55:17.640 --> 1:55:20.800 wrong reason is the wrong reason, and it's it's not 1:55:21.000 --> 1:55:25.120 it's a pretty good stain on on how we treat 1:55:25.160 --> 1:55:26.240 each other sometimes, But. 1:55:27.760 --> 1:55:28.760 Once I just. 1:55:30.360 --> 1:55:33.240 It's the it's the way of today, and you kind 1:55:33.240 --> 1:55:36.560 of have to conform or or check out, you know, 1:55:36.600 --> 1:55:36.880 and I. 1:55:36.840 --> 1:55:40.360 Have a checking out. You have this great skill and 1:55:40.440 --> 1:55:44.640 you're a songwriter. Let's just assume you were to perform 1:55:44.720 --> 1:55:47.960 the song live or a snippet a song live. What 1:55:48.040 --> 1:55:52.680 would be wrong with posting it on these sites? Well? Nothing. 1:55:53.360 --> 1:55:56.520 You know. What's interesting though, is we talked earlier about 1:55:56.520 --> 1:55:59.320 how to how to get paid for stuff. Everybody's allowed 1:55:59.360 --> 1:56:02.560 to record me playing and singing and post it and 1:56:03.240 --> 1:56:05.760 find a way to earn income from it from getting 1:56:06.360 --> 1:56:09.240 likes and advertising and whatnot. However that works, I'm not 1:56:09.880 --> 1:56:13.160 saying I know. But wait, wait wait, wait, wait wait, 1:56:13.160 --> 1:56:15.720 you're taking what I'm doing. Wait wait wait, and you're 1:56:15.720 --> 1:56:17.040 gonna make money for Wait. 1:56:17.640 --> 1:56:21.760 If whatever you're doing is so hot that people want 1:56:21.760 --> 1:56:24.920 to repost it, et cetera, and they may make money, 1:56:25.560 --> 1:56:29.880 that means you're gonna make money because your song is 1:56:29.920 --> 1:56:32.960 going to be more famous. Let's give an example of 1:56:33.040 --> 1:56:36.520 the person who posted the Fleetwood Mac song to the 1:56:36.520 --> 1:56:40.640 guy skateboarding Okay, Fleetwood Mac made a lot of money 1:56:41.040 --> 1:56:43.560 even though the person who even though they didn't post it, 1:56:44.080 --> 1:56:46.320 and now everybody knows the song. Same thing with the 1:56:46.360 --> 1:56:50.879 Goo Goo dolls. Iris. So you're putting out seventy songs, 1:56:51.320 --> 1:56:57.720 why don't you help yourself? Well, I'm doing all I 1:56:57.760 --> 1:57:00.640 know how to do well. This is yeah, this is 1:57:00.640 --> 1:57:04.680 I'm gonna go. This is not a heavy lift. You 1:57:04.760 --> 1:57:07.840 have children, and you have people on the payroll for 1:57:07.960 --> 1:57:10.840 you to play one of these new songs or half 1:57:10.880 --> 1:57:14.280 of the song and say something about it. I mean, 1:57:14.320 --> 1:57:17.360 you could do this shit on your four k iPhone okay, 1:57:17.720 --> 1:57:22.920 and then you know. But the thing about okay, let 1:57:22.960 --> 1:57:25.120 me let me put it differently. If we're going on okay, 1:57:26.640 --> 1:57:31.600 there's this mozart pianist not my area of expertise, Meetsuko 1:57:31.800 --> 1:57:35.120 Ucheetah and she was writing and they did an article 1:57:35.160 --> 1:57:37.640 on her newsweek, the old news week before the Internet, 1:57:38.160 --> 1:57:41.879 and she said, I tell my students to practice really 1:57:41.920 --> 1:57:45.800 hard and trying to be great because there's very few 1:57:45.880 --> 1:57:49.400 great things out there, and if you're great, people will 1:57:49.440 --> 1:57:52.800 find you. Now we know in today's cacoph inist world 1:57:52.840 --> 1:57:58.600 that's harder. But people are surfing all yourself included, all 1:57:58.800 --> 1:58:02.360 day long, looking for something great that they can tell 1:58:02.400 --> 1:58:08.200 people about. If you're not in the pool, they can't tell. Yeah, 1:58:08.240 --> 1:58:11.600 your songs are on Spotify, okay, but the odds of 1:58:11.720 --> 1:58:14.000 someone finding it. They say, Oh, I'm a Vince Gill fan. 1:58:14.080 --> 1:58:16.560 Let me see what Vince is doing, as opposed to 1:58:16.560 --> 1:58:20.200 someone saying I'm at stage coach in my cowboy boots. 1:58:20.240 --> 1:58:23.640 You know, there's a million acts here. You know, Vince Gill. 1:58:23.640 --> 1:58:24.920 I don't care how good he is. He might as 1:58:24.960 --> 1:58:33.720 well be living in Oklahoma. You know, all I know 1:58:33.920 --> 1:58:38.320 is what I know, and you don't have to do it. 1:58:38.360 --> 1:58:42.320 All I'm trying to say is, since you were promoting 1:58:42.480 --> 1:58:46.120 new music, what's that You're like the king of jokes? 1:58:46.760 --> 1:58:49.120 You know, you know the one that the punchline is, 1:58:49.600 --> 1:58:53.640 do me a favor, buy a ticket, that legendary joke. 1:58:54.120 --> 1:58:57.720 If you can't buy the ticket, whatever, I'm putting a 1:58:57.800 --> 1:59:01.080 seat in your mind. Do whatever you want, But let 1:59:01.120 --> 1:59:02.080 me ask you this question. 1:59:02.120 --> 1:59:05.400 Then if you think, do you think that by someone 1:59:06.600 --> 1:59:11.640 recording my concert, taking it home and probably less inclined 1:59:11.800 --> 1:59:14.160 to go buy a record because they have it on 1:59:14.200 --> 1:59:14.920 their little phone. 1:59:15.680 --> 1:59:18.760 That's not even the way it works anymore. A. They 1:59:18.800 --> 1:59:23.360 don't buy a they don't buy the record. There, you're right. B. 1:59:24.040 --> 1:59:27.840 The person who's shooting the video paid to see you 1:59:28.440 --> 1:59:31.800 and is a fan. Those people are going to check 1:59:31.920 --> 1:59:36.200 out the material on Spotify, your entire catalog. What do 1:59:36.280 --> 1:59:40.760 we know? Older demos tend to be more passive when 1:59:40.800 --> 1:59:43.520 it comes to streaming. I'm I could go down that 1:59:43.640 --> 1:59:49.400 rabbit hole, but you're telling me that, really the music 1:59:49.480 --> 1:59:52.320 hasn't change and you've gotten better. So what are the 1:59:52.400 --> 1:59:55.880 odds someone who's never heard of Vince Gil is going 1:59:55.920 --> 1:59:59.680 to catch on? Not the Internet era but the doors 1:59:59.720 --> 2:00:04.560 we've the led Zeppelin rebible. Do people under the age 2:00:04.600 --> 2:00:07.560 of twenty five know who forget? How good or bad 2:00:07.600 --> 2:00:10.080 you are? Do they know Vin Skill's new music? Do 2:00:10.120 --> 2:00:12.360 they know any vins Skill music? Probably not? 2:00:12.400 --> 2:00:15.360 But what they what I think they're all looking for 2:00:15.560 --> 2:00:18.920 is the authenticity that you spoke of earlier, and I 2:00:18.960 --> 2:00:23.200 think they can recognize it. They can recognize the things 2:00:23.240 --> 2:00:27.200 that that are real, you know, like take Chris Stapleton, 2:00:27.280 --> 2:00:30.640 for example, when he opens his mouth, you go game over. 2:00:31.480 --> 2:00:33.080 That's as good as singing as you're ever going to 2:00:33.120 --> 2:00:36.480 hear in your life. And hopefully the same thing rings 2:00:36.480 --> 2:00:38.120 true for me. When I open my mouth and I 2:00:38.200 --> 2:00:45.480 start singing. They they understand that that's authentic, you know, 2:00:45.520 --> 2:00:47.880 And I think, well, I guess what everybody is. 2:00:48.920 --> 2:00:53.200 I couldn't agree more, but all I will say is 2:00:53.800 --> 2:00:58.480 the paradigm is completely shifted. It's just like you were 2:00:58.520 --> 2:01:02.600 stiff for that hundred bucks. You're a musician. I guarantee 2:01:02.640 --> 2:01:04.760 you there's a lot of money you rode that you 2:01:04.880 --> 2:01:08.280 never got paid. Okay, and look at the status you 2:01:08.400 --> 2:01:14.320 have now. So you can't enter this saying well, someone's 2:01:14.360 --> 2:01:17.720 gonna make money off of me. Let's talk Don for 2:01:17.760 --> 2:01:23.000 a second. Okay, you'll know this song the Beatles, Yes 2:01:23.040 --> 2:01:26.880 it is, Okay, you know the song. I never liked 2:01:26.960 --> 2:01:35.080 that song. Okay. Don Henley did a live version. It's spectacular, okay, 2:01:36.120 --> 2:01:37.960 and it was on Spotify because it's part of the 2:01:38.040 --> 2:01:41.800 Bridge concert thing. I wrote about it. Don said, Don 2:01:41.840 --> 2:01:44.680 had it take him down. Okay. I don't want to 2:01:44.680 --> 2:01:48.360 get really, but I'm telling you that version was better 2:01:48.440 --> 2:01:51.040 than the Beatles, he slowed it down. It wasn't quite 2:01:51.120 --> 2:01:54.840 a cappella whatever. Now he's got a lot of other 2:01:55.000 --> 2:01:59.560 avenues he's in, and he hasn't released any new music recently. 2:02:00.120 --> 2:02:02.720 So all I'm trying to say is you believe in 2:02:02.800 --> 2:02:08.360 these songs. There are ways today to give those songs 2:02:08.400 --> 2:02:13.880 a chance, because most of the stuff sucks. You know, listen, 2:02:14.960 --> 2:02:17.920 we don't know. There's no gatekeepers anymore. Right. But the 2:02:18.000 --> 2:02:20.880 other thing is, I'm sure you could tell me incredible 2:02:20.920 --> 2:02:24.720 tales of practicing your guitar as a teenager. So I 2:02:24.840 --> 2:02:27.360 was in my room for three hours. I was dropping 2:02:27.400 --> 2:02:29.760 the needle. I was slowing it to you know, to 2:02:30.600 --> 2:02:33.440 slower speed the forty five to thirty three. Figure out 2:02:33.480 --> 2:02:38.760 those licks just alone. Okay, today's kids, most of them 2:02:38.800 --> 2:02:44.040 don't do that. They're busy promoting themselves, and therefore there 2:02:44.040 --> 2:02:46.840 are exceptions. Of course, most of them don't have the 2:02:46.880 --> 2:02:50.320 skills you have. In addition, you come from an era 2:02:50.680 --> 2:02:53.480 we had to be able to sing. I get an 2:02:53.480 --> 2:02:55.640 email all the time people say, you know, listen to me. 2:02:55.720 --> 2:02:58.120 It's like, well, maybe you could be the guitar player, 2:02:58.560 --> 2:03:01.160 but you know you're then the say Bob Dylan. I said, well, 2:03:01.200 --> 2:03:03.280 Bob Dylan's the best lyricist of all time. If you 2:03:03.320 --> 2:03:08.480 were that good, we would recognize it. Yeah, I'm gonna 2:03:08.560 --> 2:03:11.240 leave in it there as I say, because I think 2:03:11.840 --> 2:03:15.560 I mean. The funny thing in this particular case, unlike 2:03:15.640 --> 2:03:18.640 most people, is you are surfing on your phone, so 2:03:18.720 --> 2:03:20.840 you know the magic I do. 2:03:21.200 --> 2:03:24.600 You know, I'm I'm always looking for something, and you 2:03:24.600 --> 2:03:30.040 know the when young people call me and say, hey, 2:03:30.080 --> 2:03:32.600 what would you do if A B and C happens? 2:03:32.640 --> 2:03:35.440 And I says, look, my way is gone. 2:03:36.320 --> 2:03:36.720 I don't. 2:03:36.960 --> 2:03:40.240 I don't know that I that my my words of 2:03:40.240 --> 2:03:44.360 wisdom would be relevant today because of the way that 2:03:44.440 --> 2:03:47.400 it works. And that's what I That's what I know 2:03:47.560 --> 2:03:50.640 is how it worked for me and how I had 2:03:50.680 --> 2:03:53.520 to do it to get to where I got. And 2:03:53.600 --> 2:03:56.640 now it's foreign. You know, all of this is pretty 2:03:56.680 --> 2:03:59.760 foreign to me. So I think it's as much about 2:04:00.720 --> 2:04:05.120 probably me being insecure of how to find my way 2:04:05.160 --> 2:04:06.880 out there. I'm just doing the best I can and 2:04:06.960 --> 2:04:10.440 trying to take a take a page from the folks 2:04:10.440 --> 2:04:13.640 that are are about it. So I'm in the middle 2:04:13.680 --> 2:04:15.760 of it and I'm just trying to do what I 2:04:15.840 --> 2:04:18.560 know how to do, which is write a song, play 2:04:18.600 --> 2:04:22.560 a song, and sing a song, and however it finds 2:04:22.640 --> 2:04:26.640 its way. And even if I don't get paid, you know, 2:04:26.720 --> 2:04:28.400 that's out of my out of my hands. 2:04:28.800 --> 2:04:29.360 It's okay. 2:04:29.800 --> 2:04:32.320 You know, I'm still going to do it because that's 2:04:32.360 --> 2:04:34.160 not the reason I'm doing it in the first place. 2:04:35.000 --> 2:04:38.600 And I just I will never not want to be creative, 2:04:38.800 --> 2:04:41.760 never not want to be reaching out and trying to 2:04:41.960 --> 2:04:43.920 inspire somebody to like something. 2:04:44.160 --> 2:04:47.520 So someone comes to see you live. In your coming dates, 2:04:47.840 --> 2:04:49.560 will you play any Eagles songs? 2:04:50.160 --> 2:04:53.400 Mm hmm, No, I don't think it's my place, you know. 2:04:53.920 --> 2:04:56.720 I I tell people, I said, I had not one 2:04:56.760 --> 2:04:59.800 note to do with the music of that band, an 2:05:00.080 --> 2:05:02.480 recordings any of the songs, So I can't with a 2:05:02.480 --> 2:05:06.320 straight face lay any claim to that. I said, Yeah, 2:05:06.360 --> 2:05:07.840 I got to play with him for ten years and 2:05:08.680 --> 2:05:10.760 sing some of those songs, but I don't think it. 2:05:11.920 --> 2:05:18.320 I don't think it looks good, you know. And I 2:05:17.560 --> 2:05:20.280 mean when I first started, I'll tell you this story. 2:05:20.280 --> 2:05:23.000 You may have heard it, but we were doing that 2:05:23.120 --> 2:05:26.440 first show at Dodger Stadium, which you went to, and 2:05:27.600 --> 2:05:29.400 I was singing a song of mine called Whenever You 2:05:29.440 --> 2:05:34.760 come around at soundcheck and Don came over to me. 2:05:35.040 --> 2:05:37.520 He said, what is that song? I said, it was 2:05:37.560 --> 2:05:39.720 a song of mine that I put out, you know, 2:05:40.080 --> 2:05:42.360 twenty something years ago, twenty five years ago. It was 2:05:42.360 --> 2:05:44.560 a big hit for me, and he goes, can we 2:05:44.600 --> 2:05:47.280 work it up and do it? I said, Don, with 2:05:47.320 --> 2:05:50.560 all due respect, I said I'd rather not, And he 2:05:50.600 --> 2:05:53.640 said why. I said, Look, what I'm getting ready to 2:05:53.680 --> 2:05:57.080 do isn't going to be easy, and I don't want 2:05:57.080 --> 2:05:59.760 to give these people one more reason to not like me. 2:06:00.640 --> 2:06:02.440 I don't want anybody out there saying I didn't come 2:06:02.480 --> 2:06:04.760 here to hear Vince Gill songs. I came here to 2:06:04.800 --> 2:06:08.040 hear Ego songs. So that was kind of how this 2:06:08.120 --> 2:06:11.640 all started. And all these years later, I don't feel 2:06:11.640 --> 2:06:17.440 like I I should lay claim to sing any of 2:06:17.440 --> 2:06:20.280 those songs. And if I tell people the real reason, 2:06:20.280 --> 2:06:22.200 I said, look, I just don't think it's my place. 2:06:22.560 --> 2:06:26.720 I think they're okay with it, you know, But my 2:06:26.800 --> 2:06:29.120 ego is such that I don't I don't need to 2:06:29.600 --> 2:06:32.480 flaunt the fact that I got to do this for 2:06:32.520 --> 2:06:35.880 the past ten years. I'm grateful and lucky and all that. 2:06:35.960 --> 2:06:38.240 But Don told me, he said, oh, I really respect 2:06:38.240 --> 2:06:40.960 you for that, you know, so you. 2:06:40.960 --> 2:06:43.640 Know, you know, this is just like with what's his name, 2:06:44.000 --> 2:06:47.240 Park Knoppler, you know who you are? I kind of do. 2:06:48.840 --> 2:06:51.760 I'm pretty comfy in my own skin. And who's the 2:06:51.760 --> 2:06:57.600 best rock guitarist all of them? No such thing. Let's 2:06:57.680 --> 2:07:02.400 leave clappting out and Joe Walsh out because of personal relationships. 2:07:02.400 --> 2:07:05.800 Where does that leave us? Jeff Beck's pretty bad ass? Well, 2:07:05.960 --> 2:07:09.440 that's what I say, Jeff Beck is the best. 2:07:09.560 --> 2:07:12.640 But it's like what you like and what I don't 2:07:12.680 --> 2:07:16.400 like don't have to mesh, you know. And for when 2:07:16.400 --> 2:07:18.960 they say who's the best singer? You go, who do 2:07:19.000 --> 2:07:21.960 you like? That's all that matters. Why is it who's 2:07:21.960 --> 2:07:24.080 the best NBA player of all time? They go with that, 2:07:24.720 --> 2:07:27.200 It is it Lebron? Is it Michael Jordan? I go, 2:07:27.800 --> 2:07:29.800 they're both just great? Why can't it be that? 2:07:30.840 --> 2:07:34.200 You know, that's an interesting one since they're playing in 2:07:34.240 --> 2:07:36.880 the Lebron's in the play because the style of play 2:07:36.960 --> 2:07:40.120 is so different. Lebron's a great player, but you're watching 2:07:40.240 --> 2:07:43.440 Michael Jordan. I guess you know. The reason I even 2:07:43.720 --> 2:07:47.360 make a choice here is because people tend to default 2:07:47.680 --> 2:07:52.240 to the usual suspects Clapton and Hendrix. Sure, and not 2:07:52.320 --> 2:07:56.880 that they're not great, but you know Beck was even 2:07:56.920 --> 2:08:00.480 you know, playing with his fingers, et cetera. Okay, we've 2:08:00.920 --> 2:08:04.920 I've beaten you up enough. I don't why you're throwing 2:08:05.000 --> 2:08:05.760 your clubs at me. 2:08:06.640 --> 2:08:08.400 Thanks for letting me do this. I think you're going 2:08:08.480 --> 2:08:09.880 to talk to my wife Amy here in a week 2:08:09.960 --> 2:08:10.200 or so. 2:08:10.320 --> 2:08:13.840 Yeah, yeah, you know, it's uh coming up. It'll be 2:08:13.920 --> 2:08:17.680 interesting because her manager reached out with you know, a 2:08:17.680 --> 2:08:21.560 lot of new technology stuff. You're living under the same house. Oh, 2:08:21.760 --> 2:08:25.960 I'll be interesting the same route, interesting to hear what 2:08:26.040 --> 2:08:28.880 she has to say. Let me ask you, since we 2:08:29.320 --> 2:08:35.480 know your your wife has famously made religious music, is 2:08:35.560 --> 2:08:40.200 that something that is inside the house or is that 2:08:40.280 --> 2:08:42.360 her identity and you have your identity. 2:08:42.800 --> 2:08:46.120 Well, I think I think that people assume I'm like 2:08:46.200 --> 2:08:49.200 her because we're married. But I didn't grow up in 2:08:49.240 --> 2:08:52.720 a church going community or family or any of that, 2:08:52.840 --> 2:08:55.840 and so we're probably a good bit different that way. 2:08:55.880 --> 2:08:59.880 But what we are is kind, you know, to each other, 2:09:00.080 --> 2:09:01.160 and respectful of you. 2:09:01.480 --> 2:09:01.960 She's taken. 2:09:02.720 --> 2:09:04.720 She went and made pop records, you know, after she'd 2:09:04.720 --> 2:09:08.080 had a great, great run in the Christian music world 2:09:08.080 --> 2:09:11.800 and got lambasted for a lot and got lambastard for 2:09:11.920 --> 2:09:15.560 marrying me. She's She's taken all of that criticism better 2:09:15.560 --> 2:09:18.520 than anybody I've ever seen in my life. It's magic, 2:09:18.720 --> 2:09:21.880 magical to watch her respond to so much of that. 2:09:22.120 --> 2:09:24.879 And you're gonna you're gonna enjoy getting to talk to her. 2:09:25.120 --> 2:09:26.960 Okay, just to build one more, because you know you 2:09:27.000 --> 2:09:30.400 brought up so many loose threads that I'm interested in Stapleton. 2:09:31.040 --> 2:09:36.120 Stapleton wins all the awards. Everybody in Nashville thinks he's 2:09:36.160 --> 2:09:39.120 the greatest. How come the rest of country music is 2:09:39.160 --> 2:09:40.200 not like kid? 2:09:41.640 --> 2:09:44.360 I don't I don't know that I believe that. You 2:09:44.400 --> 2:09:46.920 think you don't think country music likes Chris Stapleton. 2:09:47.160 --> 2:09:50.880 No, I said the opposite. They they think he's the greatest. 2:09:51.080 --> 2:09:54.320 Whenever they have awards, he always just like it, a 2:09:54.480 --> 2:09:57.360 Entertainer of the Year whatever, blah blah blah. But the 2:09:57.360 --> 2:10:00.680 rest of what's you know and hit country music doesn't 2:10:00.800 --> 2:10:02.120 sound anything else like that. 2:10:02.800 --> 2:10:07.400 No, you're right, but it it kind of never has, 2:10:07.880 --> 2:10:11.000 you know. And the thing with the I learned in 2:10:11.040 --> 2:10:15.640 all my years of award shows, oftentimes people will really 2:10:17.120 --> 2:10:19.200 vote with who they think might be the best singer 2:10:20.040 --> 2:10:22.800 and not who's the most popular. You know, the Grammys 2:10:22.880 --> 2:10:24.839 have been that way. I won a lot of Grammys, 2:10:25.960 --> 2:10:27.800 but there were a lot of artists that sold way 2:10:27.840 --> 2:10:29.640 more records than me, way more popular than me, and 2:10:29.640 --> 2:10:31.840 all that kind of stuff. But you get there and 2:10:31.920 --> 2:10:33.800 you go, hey, there's five guys. I like that guy 2:10:33.880 --> 2:10:36.680 singing the best. You can't there's nothing you can do 2:10:36.720 --> 2:10:40.400 about that. You know, he's pretty tough to beat. And 2:10:40.520 --> 2:10:42.960 I you know, i'd win a male vocalist up against 2:10:42.960 --> 2:10:45.160 some of the guys that would sell out arenas, and 2:10:45.240 --> 2:10:48.600 I couldn't come close to doing what they did, but 2:10:49.280 --> 2:10:52.600 people thought I was better, So I just part of it. 2:10:52.640 --> 2:10:53.160 You can't. 2:10:53.520 --> 2:10:55.360 I don't know how you can figure any of that 2:10:55.400 --> 2:11:00.400 stuff out. But he's pretty special, right, He's. 2:11:00.280 --> 2:11:04.400 A shining light in a ever changing world. You know. 2:11:06.080 --> 2:11:09.360 Tom Petty not the last tour, but before that, he 2:11:09.400 --> 2:11:12.040 played for a week at the Fonda. I went a 2:11:12.080 --> 2:11:14.560 couple of nights and one night said I'm gonna play 2:11:14.560 --> 2:11:17.120 a country song. He says, no, no, no, no, not 2:11:17.160 --> 2:11:20.960 today's country song. And he played something I can't remember 2:11:20.960 --> 2:11:24.440 who it was, and he goes today's country music is 2:11:24.480 --> 2:11:29.640 the rock of the seventies. And right, that's right, that's fair. 2:11:29.800 --> 2:11:32.840 But the other thing is, you know, I think people 2:11:32.920 --> 2:11:36.160 are catching on. It is so big and the artists 2:11:36.200 --> 2:11:38.720 are so much bigger than the people in the Spotify 2:11:38.800 --> 2:11:44.080 Top fifty. And you know, it's interesting because the media 2:11:44.160 --> 2:11:47.560 is still living in a past world. It's like Morgan Wallen, 2:11:47.600 --> 2:11:50.360 whether you feel good about him or not, Morgan Wallan 2:11:50.480 --> 2:11:54.360 screams much better than Taylor Swift and they all hate him. 2:11:54.360 --> 2:11:57.360 But you know, in country music or just you know, 2:11:58.120 --> 2:12:02.200 Morgan Wallen is by far the bigest artists on Spotify 2:12:02.240 --> 2:12:06.000 in streaming. According to Luminit, which is what they call 2:12:06.080 --> 2:12:11.840 sound scan now, Morgan Wallen far exceeds Taylor Swift in America. 2:12:13.360 --> 2:12:16.760 But that would be shocking. Well that's true. I could 2:12:16.760 --> 2:12:19.920 bring up the report because reports available there everybody, but 2:12:20.040 --> 2:12:22.040 I know it's a case. So you have half the country. 2:12:22.040 --> 2:12:24.640 He says Morgan Wallen was drunk and use the end word. 2:12:24.640 --> 2:12:28.160 We're never going to forgive them. And then everybody's saying 2:12:28.160 --> 2:12:33.040 how great Taylor Swift is. Whatever it is, Morganwallen is bigger. 2:12:33.560 --> 2:12:39.200 But I'll leave it there. I got love for both 2:12:39.240 --> 2:12:45.080 of them. Well, tell you my one golf story and 2:12:45.080 --> 2:12:48.120 then I'm gonna go. Okay, I played as a kid. 2:12:48.120 --> 2:12:50.000 My mother was really into it. Let me be very clear. 2:12:50.240 --> 2:12:53.840 I was never good, never good, and I'm not. You know, 2:12:53.880 --> 2:12:55.720 there are things I'm good at. This is not one 2:12:55.760 --> 2:12:58.720 of them. And then in the eighties when there became 2:12:58.760 --> 2:13:01.720 a new golf boom in the last half of the eighties, 2:13:02.280 --> 2:13:04.720 and a lot of people in business wanted to play 2:13:05.720 --> 2:13:10.960 to you know, to get into it. And you know 2:13:11.080 --> 2:13:14.200 better than any of these people. You could take it 2:13:14.240 --> 2:13:17.280 as seriously as you want. You're never gonna play like 2:13:17.320 --> 2:13:20.600 the people in the PGA. Now you could go into 2:13:20.640 --> 2:13:24.000 the trap. You can practice whatever it's. 2:13:23.840 --> 2:13:26.760 In the one or two percentile of people that play 2:13:26.760 --> 2:13:30.000 the game that ever get that good of all the players. 2:13:29.760 --> 2:13:33.400 I'm playing at a public course and the athol it's 2:13:33.440 --> 2:13:35.960 a public course, you know it is. So you got 2:13:35.960 --> 2:13:38.360 the people on the green who are not letting us on. 2:13:38.360 --> 2:13:41.440 On the part three it's an elevated t You got 2:13:41.560 --> 2:13:46.000 r foursome, you got the other foursome backed up, and 2:13:46.040 --> 2:13:49.960 you get the foursome coming off the seventh hole. Okay, 2:13:51.000 --> 2:13:54.520 I happened to hit a beautiful golf shot. Not that 2:13:54.600 --> 2:13:58.800 you have to achieve this to do this, but Wall 2:13:58.960 --> 2:14:01.960 landed like twelve feet from the pin, goes right in. 2:14:02.480 --> 2:14:06.520 Now there's like all these people there freaking out. Also, 2:14:06.840 --> 2:14:09.800 the green was at an angle and you know, so 2:14:09.880 --> 2:14:12.360 you can see it go right in. And my friend said, oh, 2:14:12.440 --> 2:14:15.080 we got to check. We gotta make sure it gets 2:14:15.080 --> 2:14:18.520 in there. And it's like it's inherently a lucky shot. 2:14:19.000 --> 2:14:21.640 I've only played golf once since then. It's like, you 2:14:21.680 --> 2:14:25.720 want to take it that seriously. I'm out. I did 2:14:25.760 --> 2:14:31.120 the impossible right, Okay, Vince, thanks for taking this time 2:14:31.160 --> 2:14:34.480 with my audience. You gotta buddy till next time. This 2:14:34.600 --> 2:14:35.680 is Bob leftstas