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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace as we go to air

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Speaker 1: remains have been found? Are they the remains of a

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Speaker 1: gorgeous young mom just thirty five years old? Cracking a

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Speaker 1: five year old so called cold case. There's never been

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Speaker 1: an arrest. I Dancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. First of all, take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our friends at WHAS eleven. According to the police,

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Speaker 1: the discovery was near the border of Nelson and Washington County.

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Speaker 1: Sources close to the case tell us it's a location

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Speaker 1: near where she was last seen alive in July of

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Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. Police say that they became aware of the

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Speaker 1: remains on Thursday and called in the FBI Evidence Response

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Speaker 1: Team on Friday due to the difficult to reach location.

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Speaker 1: Right now, those possible human remains are on the way

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Speaker 1: to the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia for testing. We

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Speaker 1: keep hearing the word remains difficult to rain. FBI remains

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Speaker 1: sent to Quantico. Again, Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Has the case of missing Mom Crystal Rogers Finally big

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Speaker 1: crack joining me an all star panel to break you

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Speaker 1: down and put it back together again. Judge, trial lawyer,

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Speaker 1: anchor Court TV. Ashley Wilcot at Ashley Wilcott dot com.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalist, joining us from LA. You can

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Speaker 1: find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Director of

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Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute, Crime scene expert Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: former Chief medical Examiner for the entire state of Georgia.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Chris Sperry, but first to Fallon Glick joining me

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Speaker 1: from w d RB, Louisville. Fallon, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. You know, I noticed that they said law

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Speaker 1: enforcement became aware of the remains. How did they find

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Speaker 1: out about these human remains? Well, that still under wraps

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Speaker 1: by police right now. Everything involving the case with Crystal

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Speaker 1: Rogers is really tight lipped, and it has been since

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Speaker 1: day one. And that's I think what's really frustrating with

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Speaker 1: this case that you don't hear any information really ever

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Speaker 1: from police anytime they hear of remains or they do

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Speaker 1: a search. There's just very little information that is released

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Speaker 1: to the public. To Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of

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Speaker 1: the Coal Case Research Institute, Cheryl, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. I don't quite know. With so much interest

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Speaker 1: in Crystal Rogers case, how the case quote went cold?

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Speaker 1: What does it tell you that we are learning the

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Speaker 1: police were quote made aware of the remains and now

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Speaker 1: the FBI is involved. It says somebody came upon something,

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Speaker 1: whether it was her remains or a clandestine grave, there

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Speaker 1: was somebody left into this place. From what I understand,

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Speaker 1: the terrain is very difficult to get to. What do

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Speaker 1: you mean why does everybody keep saying the terrain is difficult?

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Speaker 1: Is it heavily wooded? Is that mountainous? Is it down

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Speaker 1: a ravine? It looks like there's a there's a pretty

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Speaker 1: decent grave, probably a ninety degree angle, so you know,

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Speaker 1: getting to it with equipment would be difficult. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: making sure that everything is gathered correctly. Again, you need

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Speaker 1: a team of people when the terrain is difficult to

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Speaker 1: In other words, it's not just like you drive up

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Speaker 1: and there's a you know, a body lay there on

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Speaker 1: the flat surface and you can work it easily. This

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Speaker 1: you're going to be at an angle. You know things

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Speaker 1: are not gonna you know, sit straight, and you know

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Speaker 1: they could possibly roll further down. So wherever the remains were,

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Speaker 1: it's difficult for law enforcement to work as a crime sing.

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Speaker 1: You know. Another I have with this is that it's

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Speaker 1: apparently five miles away from the last place she was seen,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very surprised that tracker dogs didn't find her,

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Speaker 1: especially if you take into light Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psycho

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Speaker 1: Alan's joining me out of Beverly Hills. Do you recall

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Speaker 1: on the Lacy Peterson case, tracker dogs actually tracked Lacy's

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Speaker 1: remains from her home in Modesto their own cavina all

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Speaker 1: the way to the San Francisco Bay, about a forty

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Speaker 1: minute drive, and tracker dogs followed her scent that far,

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Speaker 1: but not in this case. Do you remember that? I

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Speaker 1: remember that so clearly. Yes, the tracker dogs picked up

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Speaker 1: a scent, they followed the trail. And the fact that

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Speaker 1: in this case, this mom of five went missing and

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Speaker 1: they were not able to track her, and then there's

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Speaker 1: a shallow grave or or some kind of a grave.

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Speaker 1: Five wait, it's kind of shocking. I don't know the

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Speaker 1: science of tracker dogs, but it does make me wonder

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the investigation itself and the motivation

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Speaker 1: of the police department, and why this wasn't down a

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Speaker 1: little bit more thoroughly. We don't know what happened regarding

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Speaker 1: tracker dogs, but I do know this about the location.

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Speaker 1: There was a social media post by Nelson County Sheriff's office,

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Speaker 1: the state they quote become aware of possible human remains

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Speaker 1: near the border of Nelson and Washington Counties. We understand

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Speaker 1: the search was near Pascal Ballard Lake. Excuse me, Pascal

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Speaker 1: Ballard Lane. Joining me, Ashley Willcot, doctor Bethany Marshall, Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: doctor Chris Sperry, and Fallon Glick. Right now, take a

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Speaker 1: listen to what we are learning from w d RBS

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Speaker 1: Fallon Glick. The nightmares started over Fourth of July weekend

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Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. Detectives say Chris Rogers, a mom of

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Speaker 1: five kids, was last seen on July third by her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend at the time, Brook's house. I was calling and

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Speaker 1: next thing and she wasn't answering and nobody could get

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Speaker 1: out whatever. Sherry Ballard, Crystal's mom, still remembers in vivid

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Speaker 1: detail the day she went to the police station to

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Speaker 1: report Crystal missing. I remember later on them telling me

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Speaker 1: what could be a year before we find any answers,

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Speaker 1: and I was just shocked. I'm like, there's no way.

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Speaker 1: I'm waiting a year to find my daughter. Little did

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Speaker 1: anyone know it would be much longer. When her car

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Speaker 1: was found abandoned on the Bluegrass Parkway with her belonging

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Speaker 1: still inside, it didn't offer any clues. Okay, we have

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Speaker 1: been asking and wondering about whether track or dogs were used,

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Speaker 1: and why they didn't come up with anything. Well, take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends, Shame McCallister. So, I can't

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Speaker 1: figure why she would walk away from the car and

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Speaker 1: leave the purse there when we took the bloodhounds up there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they had her things that you provided us

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Speaker 1: for sin and they said it was as though she

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Speaker 1: was not even there. I can't explain that. I don't

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Speaker 1: understand what that means. I don't know why. If it's

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Speaker 1: her car and she leaves in at some time friday nn,

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Speaker 1: why does it appear to the dogs that she's not

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Speaker 1: even there. I agree with this. Same set of bloodhounds

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Speaker 1: tracked you all tracked her in the car from forty nine,

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Speaker 1: and they had never been to your arm's farm before,

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Speaker 1: tracked you as her scent all the way down forty nine,

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Speaker 1: turned on Balltown Road and turned on Pascal Ballard as

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Speaker 1: though they were following your car. So I know the

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Speaker 1: dog is not defective because they're following her sin and

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Speaker 1: they don't know where your mom is. They never visitary

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Speaker 1: for her, So the dog's nose is not defective. So

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Speaker 1: when the dog doesn't even try to find her on

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Speaker 1: the parkway where her car, it's just very hard to me.

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Speaker 1: And I can't figure out why they wouldn't find any

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Speaker 1: sense of her at all if she walked one way

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Speaker 1: or another. You are hearing Detective John Snow speaking and

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Speaker 1: he's explaining that the dogs, the tracker dogs, were taken

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Speaker 1: to Crystal Roger's car where it was left abandoned on

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Speaker 1: a parkway, but they picked up nothing. Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace for those of you just joining us, have

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Speaker 1: the remains of a mom of five finally been found,

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Speaker 1: cracking a five year old so called cold case. There's

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Speaker 1: never been an arrest, sumptions gossip that she quote ran away.

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Speaker 1: I never believed any of that at But why didn't

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Speaker 1: the dogs pick up her scent where these remains were found?

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Speaker 1: Why didn't the dogs pick up the scent near her

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Speaker 1: vehicle that was abandoned? You know, Cheryl McCallum, Director, Coal

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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute. I can think of a lot of

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Speaker 1: reasons the dogs did not pick up her scent where

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Speaker 1: her car was parked. Oh, I can think of one

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Speaker 1: major reason that detective does not believe she drove that

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Speaker 1: car there. She was believe that car. That's right, that

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Speaker 1: car was left there along with her person's cell phone,

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Speaker 1: and somebody deliberately flattened that tire as a staging mechanism

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Speaker 1: to make law enforce that believe. Oh my gosh, she

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Speaker 1: had tire trouble and somebody must have snatched her too.

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Speaker 1: Fallon Glick joining me from w d RB Louisville. Fallon,

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Speaker 1: what can you tell me? Let's start with the location

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Speaker 1: offer a vehicle and how it was found. So her

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Speaker 1: car was found off to the side on the Bluegrass Parkway,

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Speaker 1: kind of out of town. And what was really weird

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Speaker 1: according to family, is that they say Crystal had no

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Speaker 1: reason to be driving in that direction. She doesn't go

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Speaker 1: that way ever, So they thought it was first of all,

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Speaker 1: very strange that that car would be there. And from

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Speaker 1: day one they thought there's no way Crystal drove that car,

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Speaker 1: and there's no way she would have gotten out on

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Speaker 1: her own just leaving, and there's no way she wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have called her dad or another family member if if

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Speaker 1: she did in fact have a flat tire. They don't

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Speaker 1: believe for one minute that she was ever in that

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Speaker 1: car driving it to the Bluegrass Parkway where it was left.

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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott joining me judge and trial lawyer, Court TV

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Speaker 1: anchor at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Ashley, Clearly, in my mind,

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Speaker 1: the scene was staged. She wasn't the purse and the

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Speaker 1: cell phonem still in the car. Yep, that's my understanding

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Speaker 1: they were, And I think that the valid point and

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Speaker 1: the really thing to think about is that there were

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Speaker 1: no sense picked up by the dog. And staging a scene, right,

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Speaker 1: is what when somebody is involved in the disappearance of

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Speaker 1: a person happens. That's what they do to throw the

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Speaker 1: police off. As a matter of fact, Cheryl McCall, I'm

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Speaker 1: picking up on what Ashley Wilcott just said. I've never ever,

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Speaker 1: in all the cases I investigated, prosecuted, or covered, seen

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Speaker 1: a random killer stage the scene. They grab the person

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Speaker 1: to take off, they kill the person to take off,

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Speaker 1: They commit the burglary and leave, no staging, nothing, to

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Speaker 1: keep them at the scene, they have no reason to.

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Speaker 1: Staging only happens when you have some sort of connection

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Speaker 1: to the victim. Explain absolutely correct, Nancy. So if you

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Speaker 1: have a connection to the victim, then you have to

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Speaker 1: make an appear and though you were nowhere near them,

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Speaker 1: you don't know anything about it. So you do little

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Speaker 1: things again like her person's cell phone conveniently being left there,

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Speaker 1: a tire being saddened. If this was a stranger time,

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Speaker 1: if your goal is to kidnap somebody, you grab them

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Speaker 1: and you go, what are they doing with her while

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Speaker 1: they're flattening the tire and making sure her phone and

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Speaker 1: purse are visible? And just so easily, you know, seeing

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Speaker 1: as somebody going into the car. I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: don't have a flat tire, why in the world would

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Speaker 1: you get out of your car without your phone and leave?

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Speaker 1: The boyfriend is more than that. Yeah, you're the night.

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Speaker 1: It's in the middle of the night. He claims he

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Speaker 1: went to bed, she was in the bed with him,

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Speaker 1: and he wakes up she's not there. So you want

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Speaker 1: me now to believe that a mother of five, for

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Speaker 1: some odd reason, grabs her purseon's cell phone and drives

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Speaker 1: down a road she ain't never been on in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night for no apparent reason, and has

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Speaker 1: a flat tire. Well. The disappearance of Crystal Rogers is

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Speaker 1: part of an even deeper mystery in the Artstown area.

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Speaker 1: You heard earlier Cheryl McCollum wondering why she didn't call

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Speaker 1: her dad. No, no, no, that was falling glick. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to shay McAlister. Tommy and his grandson pull

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Speaker 1: onto the private property which butts up against the Bluegrass

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Speaker 1: Parkway at six fifty Trenton stands next to his papa

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Speaker 1: when a blast rings out. A single shot rips into

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Speaker 1: Tommy's chest. That single gunshot is heard across the fields,

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Speaker 1: splitting through the morning air. Casey's wife hears the gunshot

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Speaker 1: from their home. My son heard the gunshot, and I

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Speaker 1: remember Casey saying, dain't daddy already got a deer? I

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Speaker 1: mean they had just got out the truck. Tommy reaches

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Speaker 1: for Trenton and tells him he's been shot and to

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Speaker 1: start looking through his clothes for his phone. Tommy's trying

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Speaker 1: to speak, but he can't breathe. At six fifty five,

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Speaker 1: Sherry has fallen back to sleep, when her phone rings

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Speaker 1: and call me and I couldn't hardly understanding. He's like,

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Speaker 1: my mom, Peppo has been shot. I was panicking, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was trying to throw my clothes on and I

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Speaker 1: don't Trenton. I said, I'm gonna call nine one one.

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Speaker 1: I said, I will call Casey. And you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: scared because Trenton's there and I don't know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: She hangs up and frantically dials nine while getting dressed

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Speaker 1: and running to her car. So, after Crystal Rogers goes missing,

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Speaker 1: the one of the few people she could call for

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Speaker 1: help and that were intimately connected to her, her dad

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Speaker 1: suddenly is killed. But apparently a lot of people don't

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Speaker 1: see a connection. Listen to Bardstown, Kentucky State Police Trooper

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Speaker 1: Scotty Sharpe was a detective when Tommy was shot. He

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Speaker 1: arrived on the scene just before eight a m. We

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Speaker 1: came out and on Tommy Ballard. Of course, he was

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Speaker 1: shot on the edge of the Bluegrass Parkway. So we

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Speaker 1: have worked since that day diligently working all three cases

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Speaker 1: and working in cooperation with the Nelson Kenny Sheriff's Office.

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Speaker 1: In the disappearance of Crystal Rogers. Way, is there any

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Speaker 1: connection between Crystal and Tommy's cases, Well, right now, that's

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Speaker 1: still part of the investigation, so at first and ongoing,

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Speaker 1: apparently no connection made. Joining me right now, renowned medical examiner,

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Speaker 1: doctor Chris Sperry, Doctor Sperry, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: You know, I remember and I remember discussing this case

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Speaker 1: with you at the time, prosecuting a high profile murder

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Speaker 1: case that involved an arson of a millionaire's wife. He lived,

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Speaker 1: she died, and she was covered in bruises. That's unusual

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Speaker 1: to die smoke inhalation and be covered in bruises, that said,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Sperry, That case really brought it home to me,

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Speaker 1: the true fact that medical examiners look at extrinsic evidence

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Speaker 1: when they determine cod and mod manner of death. For instance,

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Speaker 1: in that case, the medical examiner took into account that

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Speaker 1: all the husband's suits and dressues were removed from the home,

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Speaker 1: all of his family photos of his family and relatives

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Speaker 1: were removed from the home before the fire. About twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours before the fire, he checked the weather Network,

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Speaker 1: a call in resource, to find out if it would rain.

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Speaker 1: The day of the fire. He called his insurance before

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Speaker 1: the accidental fire to find out if the fire insurance

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Speaker 1: covered rental furniture after the house burned down, and then

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Speaker 1: lo and behole seventy two hours later the house burned down.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so much circumstantial evidence, and the

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Speaker 1: medical examiner did look at that evidence when making a conclusion. Here,

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Speaker 1: you've got a young mom missing and then suddenly her

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Speaker 1: dad is shot dead. Would a medical examiner take that

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Speaker 1: into account? Oh? Absolutely, I mean there's there are no

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Speaker 1: coincidences really when it comes to deaths that occur in

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Speaker 1: a family, you know, close to close together, unless there's

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Speaker 1: some documentation someone dies in the hospital of the natural

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Speaker 1: disease or something like that. But a mysterious disappearance, you know,

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Speaker 1: followed by other family member being shot, that's incredibly suspicious.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, guys were talking about human

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Speaker 1: remains that have just been found. Are they the remains

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Speaker 1: of a young mom of five? Crystal Rogers take a

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Speaker 1: lesson to whas Crystal and Brooks shared a home and

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Speaker 1: together had a son. The couple and their toddler were

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Speaker 1: together the last night Crystal was known to be alive. Supposedly,

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Speaker 1: they went to the farm and they walked back in

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Speaker 1: the field to feed the cows. My daughter's not going

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Speaker 1: to walk back in the field in the poorneil rain,

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Speaker 1: especially with her baby. I just don't see her doing that.

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Speaker 1: And then they left the farm and went back home,

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Speaker 1: and Brooks went to bed, and Crystal was still up

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Speaker 1: on her phone and Eli was running around playing, and

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Speaker 1: supposedly she was not there when he got up. She

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Speaker 1: was just gone gone. But Sherry ball says Brooks didn't

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Speaker 1: tell anyone his girlfriend was missing. Sherry didn't know her

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Speaker 1: daughter was missing until days later. And when it was

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Speaker 1: Sunday and she still hasn't called, I started panicking. Sherry

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Speaker 1: and her husband Tommy, rushed to the Nelson County Sheriff's

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Speaker 1: office to file a missing person's report. Okay, that's interesting

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Speaker 1: right there to you filing glig w d RB Louisville.

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Speaker 1: Who filed the missing person's report, That would be Sherry Ballard.

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Speaker 1: She ended up seeing Brooks howk in a parking lot

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Speaker 1: somewhere in town and had been talking to him wondering

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Speaker 1: where Crystal was and why hasn't she been calling her

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Speaker 1: back or answering any of her text messages? And she goes, well,

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Speaker 1: have you filed a police report? And he said no,

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Speaker 1: And then she goes, well, shouldn't you do that? And

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Speaker 1: he goes, well, maybe you should, and then she goes, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go straight to the police department, and

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Speaker 1: that's what she did. I don't like that right there, doctor,

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Speaker 1: City Marshall, Psychoellens joining me out of LA that they

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Speaker 1: basically go t for tad on who's going to call

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Speaker 1: the police, Nancy. I don't like it one bit. Can

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Speaker 1: you imagine you're sleeping in bed with your spouse or

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Speaker 1: in this case, his girlfriend, mother of five children. You

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Speaker 1: wake up, she's gone. Not only is she gone, but

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Speaker 1: now you have five kids in your care and your charge,

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Speaker 1: who are asking for mommy? You know, mommy, mommy, mommy,

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Speaker 1: where's mommy? You're taking care of them, you're feeding them,

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Speaker 1: hopefully he was. But you're not wondering where the mother

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Speaker 1: of those five children is. I mean, maybe I'm she relaxed.

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Speaker 1: But whenever I see anything, I call nine one one.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure they've got me on record by now. Guys,

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Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our cut

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Speaker 1: five wha s. The mayor cited the reasons for the

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Speaker 1: termination include a phone call he made to his brother

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Speaker 1: warning him about an interview the sheriff's department planned to conduct.

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Speaker 1: He also failed polygraph exam and then refused to cooperate

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Speaker 1: for an interview with the Nelson County Sheriff's Department. Sheriff

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Speaker 1: Mattingly says he's not worthy of being a police officer.

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Speaker 1: He then made it very clear that he believes Rogers

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Speaker 1: is dead. Okay, since suddenly the brother of the boyfriend

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Speaker 1: is fired from the police department, what happened foulon glick.

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Speaker 1: So basically they brought in the Howe brothers for questioning.

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Speaker 1: That is the boyfriend that last saw her alive, and

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Speaker 1: his brother who's on the police department. Okay, what police

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Speaker 1: department was that the Bartstown Police department, Okay, and he

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Speaker 1: had been there for about eight and a half years

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Speaker 1: or so, the brother, Nick Howk, and they had brought

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Speaker 1: in Brooks Howk for questioning, and they also brought in

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Speaker 1: his brother, Nick Howe, the police officer. And during that

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Speaker 1: exchange of questioning and talking about his polygraph results which

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Speaker 1: he did not pass. He is very difficult, the brother

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Speaker 1: or the police officer, brother or the boyfriend, so Brooks

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Speaker 1: Howe's polygraph results came back inconclusive. That's the boyfriend, the boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: Nick how the brother, and the police officer. He did

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Speaker 1: not pass the polygraph test. Every time they asked him

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Speaker 1: a question about Crystal Rogers and her whereabouts. The investigator

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Speaker 1: said it spiked as a major lie, and the FBI said,

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Speaker 1: I'm no longer asking you if you know where Crystell is.

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Speaker 1: He goes, I know you know where she is based

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Speaker 1: off these results, the reason why he was fired. Cheryl McCollum.

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Speaker 1: That looks really bad, but we know the police officer

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Speaker 1: brother apparently called the boyfriend and said, hey, they want

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Speaker 1: to interview you. Is that grounds for firing someone? Cheryl

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Speaker 1: McCollum absolutely, I mean to me, it's the standard procedure

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Speaker 1: in a police department. Is conduct you unbecoming if you

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Speaker 1: do anything where you're you know, harmon an investigation, trying

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Speaker 1: to you know, make something look like it's not forthcoming.

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Speaker 1: If you're not honest, of course they can argue for that.

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Speaker 1: There's more to meet to this than anything. Remember her

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Speaker 1: car that's abandoned on that road in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: Whoever drove that car had to have a way to

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Speaker 1: get home. So now you have a brother involved who's lying.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps that's how somebody got home. There was another car involved.

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Speaker 1: It seems as if the plot is thickening, and in

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Speaker 1: the last hours we learn remains have been found about

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Speaker 1: five miles from where Crystal Rogers was last seen alive

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Speaker 1: to ye found and glick w d RB, Louisville, where

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Speaker 1: her five children been while mommy's been gone. Well, the

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Speaker 1: youngest child, who is the child of Broth, Crystal and Brooks,

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Speaker 1: he's been in custody of Brooks house this whole time,

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Speaker 1: and then her other children have been staying with Crystal's mom,

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Speaker 1: Sherry Ballard. Mmmmmm okay, guys, I want you to hear

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Speaker 1: from Shane McCallister Brooks how interview with detectives. Listen, he

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Speaker 1: had a little fire win with that after etipy Walker,

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Speaker 1: before Egypi Walker. I know we fed the callis first

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Speaker 1: because I want to do that as quickly where we

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Speaker 1: had still plenty of anyway. I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: lived the fire before we walked back here. When I

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Speaker 1: got back, I could have done it either where I

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Speaker 1: don't remember. After the fire and with their toddler and toe.

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Speaker 1: Brooks says, he and Crystal take a walk, doesn't to me,

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Speaker 1: And I've got a couple of kids, you know, but

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Speaker 1: everybody parents a little differently. To me. It seems a

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Speaker 1: little late to be got on the farm with the

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Speaker 1: two and a half year whereas he had at midnight,

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Speaker 1: as he has, he'd been asleep in the car for

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Speaker 1: a while, as he staid while opening a hill form anybody,

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Speaker 1: he's used so used to sleep and so later in

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Speaker 1: the morning his normal day. It's his seven eight o'clock

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Speaker 1: in the evening, really eleven, because she sleeps much later

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Speaker 1: in the morning. She stays up. So yeah, it's always

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Speaker 1: been that way to midnight. He's wow, did you go

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Speaker 1: straight home on Friday night? Or did y'all stop somewhere

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Speaker 1: or because I'm thinking that that's their normal seven eight

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Speaker 1: o'clock in the evening, it might be dinner time. Did

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Speaker 1: you stop and eat something or did you go straight home?

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Speaker 1: We did not eat anything. I want it straight home. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So he went straight home. So if we assume that

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Speaker 1: he's correct, in about ten minutes after midnight, okay, you

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Speaker 1: are hearing the boyfriend Brooks Huck speaking to detect his

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Speaker 1: brooks Out and you know Selon would call him. You

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Speaker 1: and I've lived through a lot of trials together. I

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Speaker 1: would be playing that first, I do emotion before trial,

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Speaker 1: to allow it before the jury. I would try every

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Speaker 1: way I could to play that in the opening statement.

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Speaker 1: That might be difficult because something has to be entered

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Speaker 1: into evidence before you can show it or played for

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Speaker 1: the jury. But right there, hopefully i'd have a jury

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Speaker 1: full of moms and dads. It's the last thing you

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Speaker 1: want to have your two and a half year old

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Speaker 1: up at midnight, because you know what that means. You're

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Speaker 1: up at midnight. That's what that means. Now true, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: As you will know, John, David and I and Lucy

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Speaker 1: being dragged along, have stayed up all summer every night

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Speaker 1: watching Kung Fu movies till one thirty or two o'clock

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Speaker 1: in the morning. But for a two year old, that's

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Speaker 1: a whole nother thing, Cheryl, I would play that first

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Speaker 1: chance I got to a jury. Of course, let me

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Speaker 1: point out the boyfriend brooks Out says he's innocent. What

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Speaker 1: about that statement, Cheryl McCallum, Oh, I think you would

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Speaker 1: play that up. I think you would play the fact

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Speaker 1: that his brother and wouldn't pass up, couldn't pass a polygraph.

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Speaker 1: I think you would also do what you did so

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Speaker 1: well and so beautifully, Nancy is basically you would explain

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Speaker 1: to a jury people are commonly murdered for only three reasons. Sex, money,

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Speaker 1: and revenge. That's it. So in this situation, if the

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Speaker 1: remains show that she was not sexually assaulted, clearly her

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Speaker 1: car wasn't taken, her phone wasn't taken, her purse wasn't taken,

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Speaker 1: So money wasn't the motive that leaves us with revenge

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Speaker 1: crime stories With Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: the remains just found in a remote area we believe

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Speaker 1: down a ravine. Are they the remains of Crystal Rogers?

425
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: Now Rodgers was last seen, this young mother of five,

426
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: she just turned thirty five, about five miles away from

427
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: where the remains are found. And you know, doctor Chris Sperry,

428
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: former chief medical Examiner for the entire state of Georgia.

429
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: If it's not her, I'd like to find out who

430
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: it is. Do we have another missing person, another missing

431
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: female that happened to be five miles and where Crystal

432
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: was last seen alive? Doctor Chris Sperry. Let's assume it's

433
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: a heavily wooded area. It may or may not be

434
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: the remains in a shallow grave at this juncture, several

435
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: years after she goes missing. How do you expect what

436
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: condition do you believe those remains would be in, doctor

437
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: Sperry skeletonized, That is, all of the soft tissues would

438
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: be gone, and actually the bones would be very dry.

439
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: It takes about a year after a body starts decomposed

440
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: before they lose the oily, greasy feeling from just decomposing

441
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: fat material. After that, they're dry, and they would be

442
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: scattered over an area, sometimes a large area because of

443
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: animal activity. Coyotes, raccoons, possums, all sorts of different animals

444
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: that will eat anything. They're just foragers that will eat

445
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: the dead human just like they would a dead deer.

446
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: But they tend to drag pieces off and they're scattered

447
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: all around, So it would be fairly a large search area.

448
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: It could be easily one hundred yards two hundred yards

449
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: in diameter. I was just thinking about the way that

450
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: that just rolled off the tip of your tongues. Berry well,

451
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: about animals taking chunks of a human body, and running

452
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: away with it. Well, or do you ever hear yourself? Well,

453
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: of course we're just we're just, you know, we just

454
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: happen to inhabit a portion of the food chain that

455
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: then you know, we think we're at the top of

456
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: the food chain, but we're really not. Well, who do

457
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: you think is oh? I think well anything. I hate

458
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: to cross example my any witness, but you put it

459
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: out there. Do you think at the top of the

460
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: food chain? Who I think is at the top of

461
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: the food chain? Oh, lions, tigers, you know. I mean,

462
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: we're lucky that we can catch them, but people, do

463
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: you know they're in the cages right, yeah, in the cages.

464
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: But if you if you put yourself face to face

465
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: food one, you know who will probably would? Yeah, you're

466
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 1: right about that, doctor Sperry. I would love to continue

467
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: cross examining you on that, but let me move forward

468
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: with the fact that remains have just been found the

469
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: Barstown Police tip line five zero two three four eight

470
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: heat five or two three four eight four three two eight.

471
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: You know, uh, Fan and glick, it's been a long

472
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: time coming. I'm trying to figure out how they quote

473
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: became aware of remains. If the remains are down a

474
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: re en or if they're in a shallow grave. We

475
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: know tracker dogs didn't tell police, So who possibly could

476
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: have tipped police off about this location? Well, a lot

477
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: of times when remains are found in the area, and

478
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: that sounds weird to say, because there are remains that

479
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: are found in and around Nelson County, but seems to

480
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: be quite often. But it's usually just a random person

481
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: that comes upon these remains. Maybe they're out hiking or

482
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: walking or kayaking or something, and that's typically how remains

483
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: are typically found in this area. Crystal Rogers goes missing

484
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: July three, two and fifteen, last seen in the company

485
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: of her boyfriend brooks How. They have a little boy together.

486
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: The little boy is currently with his bio dad. His

487
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: four siblings are with her mother. What happened to Crystal

488
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: Rogers in the last hours. Remains have been found five

489
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: miles away from where Crystal was last alive. Take a

490
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: listen to brook How speaking to Detective John Snow, I

491
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: probably I probably woke up around you know, in between

492
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: that time May six or seven o'clock and then I left.

493
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: You know, I got give my normal thing, put you know,

494
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: change my clothes, putting my clothes on and and uh

495
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,719
Speaker 1: and headed out, you know shortly after that, you know.

496
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: So you get up in twenty six and seven, and

497
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: where's Eli at when you wake up? He's next to me.

498
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,239
Speaker 1: He's in the bed with you. M okay, so you

499
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: get up, just he get up with you. He's still

500
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: he's still sleep on ever where I whenever I get up,

501
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: But I go to uh, you know, the bathroom and

502
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff, and he's still sleeping, sleeping

503
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: there on the bed. But Crystal isn't there when he

504
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: gets out. Yes, I noticed, I mean I noticed that

505
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: she wasn't there. I didn't know what was I didn't

506
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: know exactly what too they. I don't know what time

507
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: I called her, Yes, I called her that morning. Brooks

508
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: takes his son to the farm, but his lack of

509
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause, and he

510
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: probes on a Saturday morning, and my wife wasn't with

511
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: me in the mid as is normal. If she were not,

512
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: probably the first thing I would do would be hard

513
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: or find out where she was. He's absolutely right, you

514
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: are actually hearing the boyfriend Brooks hout Age thirty eight,

515
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: speaking to the detective about the morning Crystal Roger seemingly disappeared.

516
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: To ask you, Wilcot judge and trial lawyer, court TV anchor,

517
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: you can find her, asked you Wilcott dot com. Do

518
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: you remember the case of Susan Powell? Remember her husband,

519
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: Josh Powell takes her and the little boys. Wait, no,

520
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: he says, he just takes the little boys, tiny tiny

521
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: boys out to go camping at midnight and literally freezing temperatures.

522
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: And coincidentally, that's the night Susan Powell goes missing, never

523
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 1: to be seen again. Her body has never been found.

524
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: And when the little boys are asked what happened to mommy,

525
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: they drew a picture of Mommy inside daddy's car trunk.

526
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: Dis reminds me of that, Ashley, because he's saying, at midnight,

527
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: they decide to go take their little boy, they're two

528
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: year old, for a walk. Yeah, it doesn't pass the

529
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: smell test. I also want to talk about people who disappear.

530
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: A people don't just disappear. Be Statistically, those who choose

531
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: to run away are not mothers. Specifically, of five children

532
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: and a two year old taking a walk at midnight,

533
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: none of that passed the smell test, and the reality

534
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: is a mother of five children doesn't just disappear. Guys

535
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: were talking, You have a question jup in do we well?

536
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: I keep wondering about the boyfriend. He wakes up, his

537
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: wife's not in bed. He says they were out at

538
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: midnight with a two year old, which obviously it's not true.

539
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: But do we know if he was dating somebody or

540
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: having an affair. There seems like such lack of details

541
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: around her disappearance and what was happening in the relationship

542
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: at the time. What do we know w d RB,

543
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: What do we know about the state of their relationship?

544
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: So at the end of their relationship in terms of

545
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: her going missing, Crystel's mom, Sherry Ballard, actually had a

546
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: conversation with her in their driveway right before she went missing,

547
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: and Cristel had said that she was going to leave him,

548
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 1: and she has all his tax information and it's hidden

549
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: in a box somewhere, and Sherry never asked any follow

550
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: up questions because she thought it was very strange. And

551
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: that's one thing that Harry regrets to this day is

552
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: not asking more questions about that one little thing that

553
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: Crystal had said. And so that raises suspicion in the

554
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: family because it just came out of the blue and

555
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: Crystal was saying it. Also, I want to point out

556
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: that shortly after Crystal disappeared, Brooks how started dating another

557
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: woman whose name is also Crystal, who is also a

558
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: blonde woman, and they have some similarities. Is she missing?

559
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: She is not missing. They are still together. Okay at

560
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: this juncture, are fouling lick w d RB. What is

561
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: the status? Are we waiting to find out the autopsy

562
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: results and whether this body can be identified as Crystal Rogers. Yes,

563
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: we are waiting on that information to get all the

564
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: details from the lab and Quantico back to us here

565
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: in Barstown. Police say they're not going to release any

566
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: further in until that comes back. And family has also

567
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: being very very tight lipped right now. They're asking for

568
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: respect to the family and they just basically want to

569
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: not talk right now. Up until now, this was a

570
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: quote no body case. Has it all changed? We wait

571
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: as just as unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off

572
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,